MAVE: is Killing Real Life K-pop
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.พ. 2023
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I am very late, but I believe that the dancing animations are based on real dancers (bodies) with their faces replaced by digital versions. The clothes are real, in some frames you can see zippers and seams stretching. The jittering you mentioned was introduced on purpose for creating the illusion that everything is computer animated.
I think AI will be so advanced that, music, movies, dance groups, tv, etc. etc. will be fully AI and it would just be normal in the future. Jobs will be focused on creating new ideas, unique stories, unique concepts and styles then letting AI translate it to reality. Like you have a cast of characters and story and plot then AI would just transform it to a fully fledged world. Entertainment will be a lot interesting. 100 years from now, if WW3 doesn't happen, man and machine would merge and the difference between the two will be blurred man getting mechanized and becoming efficient, machines trying to be human or getting the human experience.
They aren't the first virtual idol group because there is hololive and nijisanji.
Avatar tech aka mo-cap
@@Ash2theB yea but it's possible to do now using threedpose tracker for free
imagine mave concert and suddenly the electricity goes out 💀
bruh😭😭😭
the amount of request for refunds that mave's company is gonna receive 💀
Y’all have zero common sense.
STOPPP
@@yaurfeiussystuhncc LMAOOOO
I don't think that they can replace the connection between real kpop idols and fans. People can't connect emotionally if the people aren't real. Or at least it will be harder. Part of why people appreciate and cheer for kpop groups is because we know how hard they work to bring us great performances and music. If they're not real we'll just be cheering for the animators.
this comment needs to be pinned! so true!!
Hope you're right!
Exactly,MAVE is from Metaverse entertainment.
I do think, tah if they make some story content (anime, game or something) people WILL get attached. Just look at any popular anime, people are simping over the characters.
But I do believe it will be harder to emotionally connect than real people
@@michaelamackovaa Actually, MAVE does have a lore. Even one member, Zena: is part of a video game.
Honestly I really hate when people say that Mave is the first Ai group even though in the past we had a lot of different & unique virtual idols
But quality is insane
Don’t compare this group with kda or hatsune miku
@@kawajama2907 honestly I can agree with you
@@kawajama2907 Exactly, technology and AI/Virtual and graphics engines develop and progress over time.
We started with Adam/Lusia/Cyda (90s Korea) and Gorillaz in the UK, we moved through Hatsune Miku (who was/is massive) in Japan, there was Dethklok animated band, we moved to K/DA and Rozy/Lucy/Reah Keem/Han YuA and virtual influencers, we moved through PUBG x Blackpink collab , we moved to Aespa and the vision of Lee Soo Man and SM, then Catheon/Humap created Yuna and her Yunaverse, Superkind have a 5th virtual AI member Saejin, now we have Metaverse Ent/Kakao moving to build and make virtual character movement more believable (it's not perfect yet obviously!) and once detailed close textures can be added to skin, clothes etc that will be another step forward.
They're not an AI group since there real members behind the singing and the dancing. Only their avatar isn't real.
MAVE isn’t even AI
I don't care they are real or not but this song slap so hard so catchy and enjoyable
11:55
You just said what this person said🙂
You wouldn't enjoy it if the voices aren't real because they are
@@DreamiMusho Vocaloid exists and has been hella popular since the late 2000s, early 2010s. All synthetic voices with real in person concerts of a projection of a 3d model.
Yeahhhh literally i have herd it like 20 times and i herd it first time was yesterday night
Yes
Pandora🛐
I think we are going to have a mix of virtual and real kpop in the future. And honestly I'm ready to have both.
technically we already do. superkind is a boygroup where most of the members are real and 2 are ai
@@rottinggoblinteeth I think they mean in the entire genre. Not in groups
Nope.
@@neno3123 exactly
🤮🤮🤮
Like I don't see why people hate MAVE so much: there are real people behind these girls working hard to succeed, zero chance of the AI members being depressed by the toxicity of the K-pop fans community, ...
most ppl hate the song not MAVE
@@notblue2773 Right. It's kindof mix of aespa, k/da.
@@dayoungjeong9181 yep
I wish I could see those girls behind this group working so hard. Are they not allowed to be a real girl group because they are not attractive enough or something? I will not support THAT. I want to see the real people behind them. Their voices are beautiful!!
@@ajnosz120 It's not the matter if they attractive or not. It's just because this girlgroup MAVE is made with the intention of making VIRTUAL GIRL GROUP.
There are actual human girls behind this group, they do the vocals and dance practices. I do heavy support Mave tho because so many K-pop trainees are super talented but never get picked because they aren’t attractive enough or can’t dance good enough. But with AI groups their talent doesn’t go to waste and they get the career they wanted
they also stay free from the whole toxic side of kpop i feel, honestly don't see anything wrong w it and the music slaps
How do you know? Any sources???
@@warfu_ someone did a research essay on it. Ai voices aren’t advanced enough to make it sound completely human. And in certain videos and pictures it’s actual human bodies but the faces are ai
@@warfu_ They posted a video when they were making pandora,4 girls were there dancing with the cgi mask thing or whatever that was and their faces were blurred
I think the out of sync dance was on purpose, since that might add a realism feel to it, that's why the dance is so good
The music is FIRE, and also mv is FIRE too, BUT i think if it was with real people idols, this would be SO MORE POPULAR 💗 ( i hope one day we can see their real faces)
It is NOT going to be done with real idols. There is a golden opportunity here. Endless concerts and songs because they will never tire, age, want to start families or leave the industry, no need to be given payment (the virtual idols) and they won't get into any scandals whatsoever. The are the epitome of perfection in the business sense, no one in their right mind would EVER switch them out for real people.
This reminds me of a webtoon called Beyond Virtual where debuting a group consisting of real people has become a financial risk, because all companies churn out are virtual bands.
I’am reading that!!😅
I honestly love the concept, the MV and the song of MAVE and I don't understand why people are so scared by them 🤣
when the cameras were created it was said that it was the end of painters but today they still exist
when digital music appeared it was said that it would be the end of real musicians and it was not like that
the autotune appeared and it was said "it's the end for true singers" but it didn't happen either
Drawing tablets were created and it was also said that traditional art would cease to exist but today there are artists who handle both traditional and digital, Hatsune Miku was born, the first Japanese virtual idol (even her voice is artificial), she became world famous and gave concerts in several countries. . . but the real idols continued to exist to this day, The first Vtuber Kizuna Ai appeared and after her many others and it was said that it would be the end of youtubers/streamers but oh surprise! That didn't happen either, so why would MAVE be any different? 🤷🏻♂ of course MAVE is just the beginning and more groups will come with the same concept but that does not mean that it will be the end of idols irl
This !!!!
The only thing I hope could happen is to hear these girls' voices live, gosh they have such amazing voices, they deserve to be heard. I think it was partly why KDA was so well received, they just sing alongside as their characters dances. Still, I'm excited for the future of AI groups
MAVE: is a new hybrid that no one expected right from the very beginning. I agree with what you have to say about them. They’ve certainly surpassed boundaries.
I think that the virtual idols or( AI "Artificial Idols") will be more popular but not really gonna replace the real idols. They will just gonna give something different to the viewers eyes. I really love MAVE so much. I hope that the persons behind those 3D models are happy with their debut.
The clothing, hair and body physics are insane. I was wondering if maybe they filmed one person, used postproduction to make it look like an animations, so like filters over a real person to make it look this realistic. It's kind of scary, honestly.
People be upset in the comments but the whole point isnt about what group came first its the fact that its possible ai groups will become normalized in the kpop industry in the future meaning even less chances for real people who have spent years training to be able to debut. An ai is also a symbol of perfection something no idol can ever be its setting the kpop community up for increased unrealistic ideologies of what beauty and talent is (more then even how it is right now) and thats why its a dangerous thing. People will idolize them just like how they idolize real idols. Everyone in the comments so far who have been defending mave and other ai idols like the ones from superkind are literally proving the point. I support the girls who voice them but all im saying is in the end theres more cons then pros a lot more then what i mentioned
There has been other ai idols, i dont know why yall act like the world is ending over something you clearly cannot do anything about.
they are 3D animations, not AI
exactly
Dude you guys are reacting so much. Ai idols aren't replacing real idols. No one is going to idolize a fake person, they might say they look pretty but no one is going to put those standards onto a real person. Second of all, the whole thing about idols is getting to connect with them and interact with them. That can't be done much with mave. Idols are supposed to be people that everyone looks up to and want to cheer for. No one is looking up to a robot.
To everyone saying nobody is going to idolize ai idols, you realize that people idolize cartoons like Barbie, right?
That's why Barbie has been losing mainstream appeal despite her relatively clean image because people are finally realizing the toxic beauty standard she represents.
Whether we like it or not, impressionable young children will see MAVE and idolize their unrealistic standard of perfection. It's so weird.
I stan mostly Txt and Skz and whenever I listen to their music, or hear them preform live, I can hear their personalities through their music. I also connect with music through lyrics and relatable stuff, but an AI doesn't have a personality and cant relate to that stuff. The connection I have with kpop idols are bigger than you can imagine and they've helped me with so much stuff. I honestly think we have progressed as much as we can and now, were going downhill.
ONE group is 100% AI. This idiot here think all of kpop is going in this direction lol. Also there are actually people behind these avatars
Not everyone relates to the idols as a person. K-pop is about the music at the very heart. If you're projecting insecurities on idols then that's your thing. I honestly couldn't care less if this group doesn't have real members, the song is a banger and that's cool.
Even am a Stay. Skz has helped me a lot too. But I honestly don't think AI is a bad thing. U can enjoy a music and the voice of the singer. No one is telling u to feel connected to a person in order to enjoy their music. U can enjoy the girls' song, voice and the animators efforts. Just pure entertainment.
(And honestly people not feeling connected to AI idols is a good thing too, cause many people irl are way too dependent on their idols for their happiness that it's actually concerning)
@@shreksmeatballs9435not everyone however the majority do have some kind of parasocial relationship with idols, in fact the reason why so many idols career are surviving is cause of parasocial relationship. And also capitalism but we won’t talk about that
Tbh I don't care abt the idol, their personality, connecting with them or whatever. I only enjoy music
It is going to be a mixture of both. Yeah they will sell albums but they cant do a world tour. That would cost more to have the screens to display them all around. As you just said they were glitching on the MV after editing...can you imagine on stage during a tour? So Real Idols will still be around to tour and everything while the AI ones will just do MV's and album sells.
yeah. the kpop industry woukdnt exist w/o real ppl so i highly doubt real idols will stop being a thing. also, a lot of these virtual idols don't rlly have personality. or at least not nearly as much as a real person. for ex., mave. usually in mvs you can see the artists personality thru their facial expressions (not their entire personality ofc but) but w mave, i didn't feel anything aside from that the music was cool. their expressions were blank the entire time
Miku have concerts all of the world like Miku expo and magical Mirai. So why does this group can't have a concert / world tour?
@@senzonia7590 aren't those special performances in just one place? I don't think Miku's ever done a tour anywhere lol
I have 3 issues with MAVE:
1. Company greed is just going to skyrocket with concepts like this. The animators and mocap actors get paid off once, while the company gets to keep 100% of the profit. No costs like training, feeding, housing, etc. With a model like this why even hire real idols?
2. Toxic beauty standards will never be dismantled. There's a reason all the girls of MAVE are animated to perfection. With humans, it's expected to have flaws. But with AI you can make them into whatever you want. In a world where people struggle with unrealistic beauty standard, shouldn't we be promoting real people not unattainable beauty? With MAVE we're literally saying humans aren't good enough.
3. Encouraging unhealthy parasocial relationships. Already in the idol world, toxic fans and stanning is a troubling part of the culture. People ship, bully and obsess over idols, and the only way to attempt to stop them is to remind them of the humanity of these idols. But instead of stopping this dehumanising culture, we're pandering to it by creating non-human characters for people to continue their toxicity with. What's to stop these crazy fans from being even more disgusting and toxic, especially since now they can give the excuse that these idols aren't real people. We should be promoting healthy change not adding fuel to fire.
The thing is they will NOT get to keep 100% of the profit. I mean there are REAL people behind these girls it would just be wrong not to pay them.
@@Hewokwitty They pay them off in the beginning. It's a one time payment and it's nowhere near what they'd have to pay an actual idol.
Compared to how much the release will make, especially now that there's no idols to pay, the company is basically keeping 100% of the profit.
Totally agree with everything, I hate it
you need to understand that their real people behind the 3d animation, because that's what they are AI is artificial intelligence which in this case, the girls are not AI its 3d animated. despite the animation, the girls behind both dancing and singing are still real and train like every other kpop idol in the industry. Mave or at least the company behind mave say that they will be the new wave in the kpop industry. Yes there are pros and cons to this but 3d/AI concepts have been around for years. take japan with hatsune miku, hatsune miku till this day is very active with her music career and shes not even real but there is still a person behind her voice. Personally I find this a good thing when it comes to beauty standards because this gives idols or trainees that don't fit the korean beauty standard a chance to show their true talent which is singing and dancing. People say that mave looks alike to KDA or AESPA and BP/PUBG collab, but I don't think so. the only similarities is some shots in the music video ( for example the wide lense shot with the big circle disk thing because its also in KDA and BP/PUBG.and they somewhat all look the same KDA looks more western cuz KDA is part of league of legends. and for you 3rd claim from your comment ( 3.) the thing is whether we like it or not there are still gonna be bullies in the world and even with campaigns to stop bullying or to stop crazy fan stalking its going to happen regardless. so there are many pros and cons but i'm here for it. even 3rd animated idols or people like lil maqueila ( who is 3rd animated robot still has a real person behind her animated face. full real body tracking and the only thing different is her face to cover her identity so who knows. I personally am here for this concept despite the ups and downs MAVE may have.
@@elizabethaguilar18 I'm aware that there's real people behind the animation and that's exactly what makes it so problematic. Why can't they just debut as a regular group? Is it because we're too scared to challenge the unrealistic beauty standards in K-pop? Or is it because the company doesn't want to pay them as much as they would have to pay a regular idol?
Not to mention that them being behind animation makes them easily replaceable so what's the point? All that talent will just get hidden behind a literal cartoon.
The cons far outweigh the pros and personally, I find MAVE to be highly problematic (no hate to the animators and mocap actors though).
I have no problem with virtual group / popstars but I have to admit I'm disappointed with the lack of creativity around the aesthetic and their designs. For example, Miku was created with a unique design who is recognizable by anyone, same with apoki (even tho she is an actual singer) her design is actually a cool concept. For KDA, RIOT thinks about their designs before the music obv because it needs to be sold as cosmetics for the game. But here, I think MAVE just look kinda random and the concept is not push too far, which is ironic because you can do pretty much anything with 3D but you still choose to make them look like actual kpop artists who can do the same and wear the same kind of clothes, etc. I also think the rigging and animations of their faces is quite "poor", no much movement and expressions for singers.. giving an uncanny valley vibes but that's an opinion. The animation on the dancing is killling it tho, like it's so realistic and good even tho I noticed some arms and hair clipping but nobody's perfect lol. Most of the times, dances in animation are weird because it's super difficult to imitate but i'm very impressed here. This is also why I think the faces look weird, no movement compare to the rest of the body.
Anyway could be better in the future if they push the concept a bit more !
(also big support to the actual singers and 3d artists behind that project
i simply agree with that lol but like what they said is worth trying tho they can remake or redo it at anytime cause is not real so way less effort and money consuming
@@jeii7562 ofc which is a bit sadening for the actual artists who wanted to have their place in the industry (without being replaced by smth virtual) but it's not a new concept and it's always cool to see how far they could go into the creativity.
I don't know how it is in other countries, but in South Korea, the relationship between an idol and a fan is the most important, as New Jeans' Ditto/OMG series showed well. And the thing that best shows the relationship between this idol and the fan is '덕질dukjil', which can generally be translated into English as fangirling/fanboying, but I don't think this is an accurate translation. "Deokjil" is just can not be don't on stage, but also the idol's airport fashion, social media live, small mistakes, mini fan meeting behind the stage, etc. I have a feeling that this virtual Idol could work artificially in that kind of really idol-like way. Just like a virtual TH-camr channels. However, I think that this will be possible only in the generation that experiences virtual idols as if they were no different from regular idols, that is, among the generations who experience idols for the first time in their lives, those who have experienced virtual idols and idols without distinction.
I don't want a time when real and Ai idols have little to no difference.
the stalking of pretty people is what kpop is to alot of young fans and creepy older people. noone should be watching them get off planes, play board games in their house, the fake roles they have to play to be relatable to toxic fans in short vidoes of putting a jacket on the cold member and so on. the only thing they should be on cam for outside of stage performances is fan meets and going live on socials and tv game shows they participate in. the obession with anyone is unhealthy as hell and pretending they are you bf/gf/ best friend for more than 5 mins in your head is also unhealthy.
@@Darkmage1000 just in your head and in your strange mind
@@dayoungjeong9181 korea as a whole is probably the most toxic place to have a fan base so ill leave it at that
@@Darkmage1000 Mind your own country. Who would trust someone who insults other countries as a whole? Care about your life
there's still something about the dancing that feels unrealistic to me that I have a hard time putting my finger on... first of all I think it's that they just kind of feel weightless and secondly I think it's missing something in the movements, everything is either too smooth or it looks glitchy, none of the natural bounce that happens when a real dancer puts an "exclamation mark" on the end of a movement. a good example of both is when they drop to the ground just like in black mamba and whereas with the real members of aespa you see them really bounce and push into the floor as they go down, here in pandora they just kind of slide down and touch the ground without any sense of force or gravity. not really a criticism just something I think they'd need to keep working on if they were going to make it actually feel real, whereas now it's just like well it feels more real than any other example of this kind of thing I've seen so far and that's still impressive.
i actually don’t think they want the group to look real, they want to make it feel unique and “realism” is not obligatory and i don’t think it affects at all🤷♀️
@@stox7941 that’s fair if that’s not what they’re going for, I was more just responding to Jordan saying they look so real, and giving my opinion of what they’d have to do to really impress me if that was the goal, which as you say it might not be
Virtual artists will never replace real ones. It just won't happen. theres no reason to hate a group like this for that reason. If you dont like virtual artists then fine, thats just you. I really like this group and its CLEAR that a lot of time and effort was put into this group. singers, dancers, choreographers, stylists, writers, musicians, etc etc all still play a part in this group just like any other. theres been plenty of virtual artists so far and as we can see real groups still debut and release music without any signs of stopping. that argument just seems super weak.
I rly get ur point, and i rly like the concept too, but i also understand the ppl who are not liking this concept…Ofc u are worrying abt their concerts.But i think theres pro and cons:
Pro: no skandals,no bodyshaming at overallmore privacy,new concept, new chances to create incredible shots,outfit changes,etc.
Contra: Concerts in virtual(just looking on a screen?), unrealistic body shapes( i can imagine that in the future) and in generall flawless, replacing of "real idols“( ik that maves got real members)
And i wouldnt be so sure abt that virtual idols replacing real ones. Who knows what the future brings? I mean maybe 100 years ago noone could ever imagine such high technology as phones or such realistic 3d models.
And btw: i dont hate on them, i rly like the song, its just my opinion.
I would like to believe that real and virtual kpop will be there to coexist.
Because most aspiring and even who's already an idol definitely wanted their efforts and artistry to be recognized along with their names.
I'm talking about every trainee or idol's talent here (which just a part but a major one to complete an idol package).
It's just depends whether who's wanted or comfortable to use their talents in front or behind the scenes.
Also depends to the concept which requires specific decisions or acquisition of needed talents or efforts.
Animated movies are not putting actors out of jobs and they're not replacing movies with real actors, why can't the music scene be the same? There's still a human voice behind it, still real dancers. You can argue there's no stylists for example, but trust me it's not the animators styling these avatars. I like the fact that there won't be any bullying towards the idols anymore.
Agree
There is a voice and dancer behind them, but they miss a personality in some kind of way. We can't really interact with the AI idols or see them interact in interviews or at other shows with each other or other people. If we get actors for that it doesn't feel genuine since the singer, dancer and actor aren't the same person. If they are we could just use the real person as well instead of an AI
I think the reason sometimes the members bug out during dance parts is because I think they’re motion tracked, maybe their motion tracking isn’t perfect yet and it makes them jittery
I really like their concept of AI, but I do hope that the future of kpop will not be only AI based groups and I hope it doesnt get more realistic than this because how it looks now makes it special in my opinion!!
I think these whole theories you mentioned are their way of 'marketing' their products(?) Yeah, what you have mentioned is terrifyingly fit so well. But, it's not like we netizens will prefer an A.I group over rl idols. It's just the way we appreciated the animators hard work, as you mentioned; it looked soooo good, not perfect but almost. It's really cool.
By the way, this Pandora have a dance choreo from real human choreographers (and it's epic, even better). The fan even wishes Mave were real people, real idols to begin with, eventually.
I mean like- all of these was like an animation movies vs Hollywood movies, it's the same thing right? Cmiiw.
Thank you for your reaction, it's really good to know from other editor's perspective.🦋
The CGI is good enough I think.
I just hope they credit and pay the real voices behind the scene. This can be a slippery slope with using people and their talents to voice CGI girls without proper credit, pay, etc.
I sure hope the real people have some good contracts in place.
Same goes for the dancers who perform in order for the company to get all of the motion tracking to create all of those performances, dance practices, and MVs.
Yeah I don’t think they’ll ever fully replace live idols especially since even animated dancing usually need motion capture to look super legit. And they won’t take over the live performances
they will, company greed is getting in the way, unforunately they will replace real idols in 6th and 7th gen
KPOP is not just about the songs and the dancing its about the emotional attachment fans have with their idols, the struggles through which idols become stronger, the bonding and friendship with the members, the interactions with fans, the collabs and talks with other idols, their humor which makes them quite like us, I like the music and I like the vibe but I dont want to see more of it in the future cause idk what will happen if the files get corrupted or connection is slow, will they just glitch out?? lol
as someone who’s a big fan of concept like this (that whole futuristic story world), I clearly love that group when I was first listening to PANDORA !
I believe in this way, they will have a life without drama, being able to live their life in privacy instead of having to deal with the toxicity of the K-pop industry and the toxic kpop fans.
I also understand why people won’t like this, but yes people don’t send hate to them, knowing damn well there are real people who worked hard on this ! They did amazing.
Besides the songs are bop (they got 2 songs for their debut) and like they said they’re re writing history. 👍
Thank you for your honest reaction on MAVE: !
(Sorry for any mistakes, English’s not my native language)
An aespa and Mave fan! I like this kind of concept of kpop so bad! I hope people/ world will not sleep on their concept and music. It is very extraordinary in a DOPE way!
If you think about it from a company perspective, it's super convenient, they don't have to present real people to the world, meaning that don't have to deal with human issues (human things are that hard to control), like weight, skills, emotions, aging, etc. These Ai could last forever (more than the usual lifetime of a kpop star) and if they adapted to each generation they will be probably something big in the future. One thing that they need to work on is putting them into Korean shows and giving each of them a special personality, and by then people would be deeply attached to them (like anime characters and stuff)
idk maybe reading way too much into this hehe
Mave is not the first AIgroup, i mean, look at aespa, kda etc, I don’t know why ppl are so mad at this group. Mave deserves all the love and support!❤
EDIT: I am sorry guys, i didn't take any information before commenting this!!!! I get it, it's not an AI group, if a person said that you not also have to say that this is not an AI group, i get it even if just ONE person said that.
Aespa is human grup wdym, they only have Avatars
aespa is an idol group kda is not a group but video game characters so they are the first ai grooup but now the first to use ai that was boa and snsd
@@isabellasrensen229 yeah true, i mean, aespa is not 100% an ai group, but they used ai characters so yeah, correct me if i am wrong in any way!
Why are y’all calling this AI it’s 3D ANIMATION for gods sake
It honestly feel the same without actual humans
Honest opinion : As someone who stan kpop since 2nd Gen of idols, nothing will replace of nothing. People just being afraid of nothing. There many "prototype" before Mave was form. There vocaloids Hatsune Miku from Japan and she literally have concerts with real people. Also Japan invented robot dance with idols. Korean just improvised what Japan was doing. Like whole "idol culture" also started in Japan, even before BTS and "So Taiji and Groups" birth. Still Japan idol culture still alive until now. Great things when virtual (or maybe next rll A.I robots) idols come to kpop. Like in the video I see, the animation, the CGI, everything was improve a lot. People learn from mistakes and made more advance technology and figure out new things. For me, this itself, is fascinating.
JSUT WATCHED AT AN HOUR AGO FRFR
MAVE'S CG CHARACTERS ARE SO REAL!!
im really glad that MAVE singers do not need to go through the toxicity that many k-pop groups face nowadays.. keep up the great work though!!
Yea but even rn they still get hate even as a "Virtual Group" but not that much if they would become a real group they get more hate like sounding like aespa, not fitting the kpop beauty standard, etc
@@nightxmoon8294 but how would they not fit kpop beauty standards? they are a virtual group- their appearances would not- well- MAKE AN APPEARANCE :"D
although i do agree with the point for sounding like aespa. although they both are seperate kpop groups and aespa has more human activities than MAVE, i still think their concept is very similar, but besides that, im sure that their music style and storyline, whatnots will be somehow unique and different from aespa's
4:58 I think the jitters are intentional with the lyrics they're singing dududududu
You should check out SuperKind! They are a mix virtual and life group. They currently consist of 5 Real life members and 2 Virtual members (eventually there will be 5). Their 1st comeback is coming soon!
I think a problem promoters of AI idols will have to face is the non-MV 'extra' content we fans usually get. Behind the scenes, game shows, reality TV style contests. Those things aren't the MV, but they do matter and help fans get to 'know' the stars/idols. Animating all that extra content is possible, but I don't think it would have the same effect.
Actually, if you follow MAVE's social media accounts, they are doing "extra content."
@@Odd_Cinderella Which only possible in their channel's "extra content" They can't be on other channel. They can not participate in any real humane acticvity with other idols.
Mave is like if KDA and Aespa had a love child
I like the song cause it’s catchy, and the MV is interesting enough. Even though the dancing is smooth, I think you can tell that the facial expressions aren’t quite there yet, especially when they are just standing and singing.
The idea of virtual idols is a negative to most people, and I get that.. but I wonder if this will give a second opportunity to idols who have talent but are outside the box or maybe have “too much baggage”- too old, too many unsuccessful debuts, maybe too much drama? That’s my hope anyway.
Agree
Eu realmente não me importo se são pessoas reais ou não, a qualidade da música é ótima, amo a coreografia, e tô muito ansiosa pra ver como vai ser essa dinâmica de um grupo virtual no kpop
Honestly this is a boon for real talent out there. Many times we see amazing talents go to waste just because they don't have korean beauty standards. With this singers and rappers can sing and rap and can save themselves from extreme diets and cosmetics surgery
Funfact: one of the member, Zena (long hair with full bangs) is a game character from Paragim :The Overprime.
How do you know
Wow. The look and name is exact. Her game bio even says she's "a virtual idol trainee from another dimension."
The game name is "Paragon - The Overprime" btw.
@@suyeesia7770 it's been found out through the fans a while ago
The concept is pretty cool and all but it can no where compare to the connection with real idols performances shows bonding and just the joy of being a part of groups journey and many more
In my opinion, the virtual ai K-pop groups show us how we’ve advanced into the future, which I can really see in MAVE’s music video for their song, Pandora’s Box because its sorta taking something (an old concept) and showing how far we’ve come from that, showing that Box in the beginning almost made me feel like that was the real Pandora’s box but if it was in the future. We can also see the futuristic theme in the setting of the music video which seems to be a futuristic looking city. Also, K/DA uses a lot of futuristic concepts as well. BUT STILL, VIRTUAL K-POP GROUPS WILL NEVER REPLACE REAL IDOLS.
The thing I like about MAVE: is that it gives the voices behind the idols privacy, if they so wish. These girls can live out their dreams of being singers without all of the drama that comes with it. And they can focus on their singing and rapping which will likely reflect in their future music, while real kpop groups also have to focus on dancing and puplic appearances and such.
That said, I'm not sure if virtual idols will ever fully replace real idols. I feel like the optimal future is one where they co-exist. Idols who want privacy can exist virtually while those who don't mind can be physical.
They're not replacing anyone. Still waiting how you can become emotionally attached to them but whatever.
What I don't like about them, isn't that they're ‘‘copying aespa or K/DAs concept''. Tons of groups have the same group concepts in this industry. No, what I don't like about this virtual idols things is how life-less it feels, and because of that, we're missing that connection we normally get between fans and their groups.
When idols do something impressive and we applaud them for their skills (like if they have great stage presence: eg an artistic choice with hand gestures while rapping, really captivating facial expressions, changing the way they sing the song during a performance so it sounds different) it's experiencing a feeling of pride for stanning that group. We won't have that here because when we applaud them we're not applauding MAVE for THEIR facial expressions, or THEIR dancing. The only thing we can be impressed by from a performance standpoint are their vocals and rap. Everything else is the credit of teams of animators and graphic designers. That's not music to me. That's not a performance. It's just technology.
Literally no one realizes that the flowing cuty under them in the Pandora MV is the same as the one in Alita:Battle Angel😱
3:47 reminds me of the shot in fancy for Minas turn in the beginning of the song
This group has such potential. People who are not really into full AI. We could still see them some day. But we should not stop on this point and support them. Theses girls all put together speak 4 languages; Korean-English-Indonesian-French . Imagine how big they could become… Visual,Vocals,Talent !!! MAVE Fighting ❤
Why replace? Why not coexist together? We watch animated series or movies and there is not so much drama. Anyway, thank you for this reaction, you're the best!
11:35 correction. They will replace real voices too.
Look at Vocaloids and what it did in the early 2000s.
You type in a syllable and adjust the pitch like what’s already done with real singing. That with AI reconstruction text to speech? You have singers replaced.
There’s even a website with a text box you can type in and select a famous person and it speaks it in their voice
5:05 i believe its like that to match up with the lyrics which say "du-du-du-du-du-du"
MAVE is just that, an ALTERNATIVE entity into KPop that provides their fans a digital world in which they can stan, to be comforted and feel safe within the confinds of their own personal space (ie. their room at home). As we've seen in the past and obviously still today, many KPop fans love to attend fan meets and concerts in person because it's been that way since the beginning of music. I commented earlier about this when they debuted on another TH-cam channel. Just as an example, a fan of MAVE may be the introvert who's uncomfortable in public places, therefore, they interact using their VR headset (ie. Oculus), personal gaming rig, mobile device, etc. As for your global fans, well since we are currently in a tech-centric world dominated by digital devices and highspeed data, they too will have access to MAVE's digital content, anytime, anywhere. I understand metaverse is not the "popular thing" to the masses right now but in time, VR, AI/ML and new advances in this specific technology will have an even larger footprint in everything we do in life and business (it's already here). With that said, MAVE has certainly planted that "seed" in the heads of KPop fans because they've been a topic of discussion since their debut (hence your video review) and as a parent company, that's what you want. I understand KDA and BlackPink PUBG had done it "before" but nothing like MAVE, not even close. To be honest, I was blown away at my first watch of "Pandora" and on top of that, the song actually is pretty good and catchy. There are actual singers and choreographers behind the scene and they deserve A LOT of credit too for good reason! Last point, what would happen if AESPA's virtual members debuted their own song, MV and provided the same fan access just like MAVE??? Would they face the same scrutiny??? It's evolution people and is what we as humans have done since the dawn of time. Create, invent, adapt and destroy. We're capable of doing such amazing things but we can also be our own worst enemy! Loved this video Jordan and appreciate you taking the time to review MAVE - Pandora
" Last point, what would happen if AESPA's virtual members debuted their own song, MV and provided the same fan access just like MAVE??? "
naevis will make her debut in march.
@@leteflondondu92 There you go!
6:18 it's real people with animated faces mapped on :)
I think people can form attachments to and appreciate the members if they feel they can connect to the talent behind them, such as K/DA. A lot of people are big fans of Soyeon AS Akali, if that makes sense.
there's a lot of pros and cons that could be taken into consideration. such as the singers behind these ai dancing idols could enjoy their life without any negativity surrounding their personal life, but the fame that usually comes with it won't be enjoyed thoroughly. it also costs the company probably less than maintaining a real life idol and making of music videos, but they won't get to organize fans- idol events that had proven to bring much more money for the company.
but all we can do now is wait and see how these will affect the company and fandom in the long run. i still wish all the best for the group and other groups aswell.
Tbh AI kpop groups will be coming to trend but will it last tho it's another story. From all those survival shows people are watching and all those reality shows, it just proves that people still enjoy seeing the growth of talents and even drama which is unexpected and not so programmed like AI. It's definitely interesting to see what AI kpop could offer since Vtubers have been becoming a trend however it wouldn't be as exciting to watch or fanover like real person kpop groups because real people just have so much to offer emotionally
I'm a little bit scared of this video and possible future without real people doing all the staff. Anyway, the connection between idols and fans is truly important, that's why there won't be only AI groups in the future due to my opinion
I personally feel that groups like these are great for certain singers who want the money but do not want the fame. some people just don't want to perform on stage yet still want to be singers. this also ensures that they won't be recognized in public and getting swarmed by fans. real humans as kpop idols will never be replaced nor killed because humans just love other humans. there will always be an emotional connection between singer and the fandom. however, MAVE itself can be considered something good for people who do not want unnecessary fame, who are disabled yet still wanna sing, to prevent overworking and unnecessary diets... and so much more. don't worry about robots replacing us. there is a high chance that will never happen anyways.
another special group is Superkind! They have ais and humans in the same group, they only have one song at the moment but their song watch out and the music video is amazing
It's funny how real idols get hate for ridiculous things, and on the other hand Mave gets hate just for being virtual and getting more attention than other virtual groups, people are envious of that and don't accept that Mave is really better and has better development of their virtuality than that of other groups
yes because them being virtual has many aspects that makes it problematic??? duh omg use ur brain
there's no reason anyone needs to replace anyone. If people want to make 3d animated groups then they can all while still doing existing GG's. Humans just hate change or the unfamiliar. Brains have to jump to the worst conclusion rather than co-existence.
I love Mave and the song. I love watching their "live" stages too and the girls + dancers behind these are amazing. Honest I think it's the safest option too because people get FAR TO INVESTED in real life idols. following every moment of their life, stalking them. The harm thats come to some idols. Even saying they are responsible for improving their lives and working through their issues when an idol does NONE of that. They just do their job. No one knows how they get paid and it's all assumptions if you do.
Animated group or not i hope one day that obsessive bond is severed. The "I love him/her" on more than just as an artist level is casted out.
Mave prevents people from trying to search into their history, their background, invading their private lives and feeling like they can "claim" or own these people. No pressure to be anything other than themselves. They can go on about their lives without it being controlled by their fans. . Idols working hard to produce good music should be enough. Appreciate them as artist. You don't know idols and idols don't know you. Leave it at that. These people are ALWAYS putting on a show as far as you know. from their Lives to their social media accounts. Any and every interaction with the public is done for their image. for their job. for their work. You only know what they CHOOSE to tell you. you have no idea who any idol is truly unless you know them on a personal level.
I support the music. A good artist, animated or not is a good artist. No one is hurting anyone by being different than what the kpop industry is used to. I hope they keep putting out amazing music.
I agree. This very concept is very new to the kpop world, especially the fans. These idols are still trained, and they could also still show their talent. I would also like to mention that this is not the first time that AI/CGI idols would come to play. It’s actually pretty normal and popular in Japan, might I add. However Japan and Korea are two different countries, and this concept is still very new to kpop, so I think all the kpop world needs is just some time. Who knows, more people might even come to like it.
Imagine some sasaeng hacking MAVE bcoz they don't have stalking as an option. Well not even that, imagine some terrorist hacking them and creating something horrible *company sued
@@Girl_in_Luv_ot7 thats not that easy. They are not ai. It's not a computer program making this and generating everything. There are people behind this. Stored assets in bits and pieces. A hack wont wipe them. Its not even something u can hack
@@angelholt8426 Ik it's not easy but tech is developing...who knows what future has but let's try not to normalize AI replacing humans not in Kpop but as u see -robot hotels- it's spreading like the curse from Pandora's box.
It was also mentioned that they never age, so again no one knows how much we'll develope in the next 30yrs
Did you saw ‘canvas’ by 4minute 360VR content? I think is an interesting idea to continue developing. You are literally in the center of the music video.
Reasons why some of the idols are slightly late is to capture how it is in reality. They know they’ll make mistakes and that’s honestly human!
People are really pressed about an AI group. MAVE is from Metaverse Entertainment. The entertainment alone says it all. Other kpop companies will remain the same,this AI group isn't going to ruin anything. MAVE is not the first but they are best looking AIs i've ever seen to the point of almost real looking. People need to stop behaving childish about it and just focus on their favs. MAVE doesn't bother anyone. There are actual people behind this creation. Working people!! No one could've thought of this better than Metaverse entertainment. People can cry all they want. The level of toxicnessis getting out of hand.
Jordan Orme have you seen their “live” performance I think it was on mnet or inkigayo, or music bank
I'd love to see more kpop groups do A.I concepts or digital concepts i like this idea i mean the talents behind virtual groups are still trained and looked after
I really don't understand why people hate mave, it's not like they are the first AI group, and they're honestly so talented cuz Pandora is an amazingly catchy song. They have such good vocals, and the company did their best to give us an amazing animation.
And also think about the reasons why these people decided to anonymous
and even though people still hate them.
Sorry for writing long but I really had to say this. Just think, maybe the artists aren't good looking or maybe they can't stand cameras or so much hate that actual idols get
I dont get why people are pressed. Are they insecure that their faves will die out & be replaced by artists like MAVE? Do they not consider the fact that such concepts & the tradional ones can coexist?
And come on this song slaps so hard. And the effort put into the music video, the animation plus the voices & dancers behind the girls, they deserve all the appreciation.
I like Mave but real kpop idols over work themselves for years just to debut. And seeing this Ai might discourage a lot of them. So not many people will have the opportunity to be kpop idols because they are gonna be Ais and its more expensive to debut an human Kpop idol. Since its less expensive to debut an Ai kpop idol they will probably make more Ai and if theres more Ai then human kpop groups in the future it will definitely take over kpop which is why I think Ai will eventually take over kpop.
thats good that it seems life like and as to terms of sync, one of the basic things we do in animation! stagger the movements if everyone is doing the exact same thing to give that less than robotic feeling :']
How are they gonna promote? How are they gonna come to music show? Or maybe fan sign event, music awards, world tour, etc?
I'm curious on how are they gonna tackle the boundary between the reality and the AI world. How are they gonna interact with the fans? Surely a kpop idol won't just answer everything like a auto reply machine like that on the phone call 🤔
I hope they post the making of the MV where the person behind them is reveal cuz their vocals is not a joke
First AI group I think was ETERN!TY. Jordan I think you should react to them too. There are not famous but when you will see there song NO FILTER you will think that they are real people.
there was the last part where they said resistance,it reminded me of the renaissance but future
I really like this concept while I still want real kpop group around as a 'must. I feel like this really gives a golden opportunity to those with social anxiety and troubles performing real like me because I really really have a concerning stage fright.
Can you react to XG’s shooting star
Yes Jordan please :D
Didnt expect Jordan to react to Mave but here we are
Rn in year 5/grade 5 I’m learning abt ancient greece and we also talked abt Pandora’s box so tday I’m feeling like telling my teacher abt the song 🤦♀️
idk man. hoestly, the years people sacrifice to become an idol and all the hard work they put into their work, that's what i "stan". I fully admire and respect them as hard working people harnessing their talents. being in the industry they're in, that's not easy and for some animation to come in out of left field and take their job, it''s just so sad. I'm not saying this group or their music is bad, bc honestly it's not lol but i hope they can just coexist as anoter group with real life people that're idols.
I feel like part of the reason MAVE isn't being received well is solely because they promote themselves as an AI idol group.. right in the midst of AI being a very controversial topic in media and art, and since people already have a bad view of AI and an idol group using that technology with the overused futuristic lore-based girl crush concept it won't be taken that easily.
Also mind you the models they used for MAVE appear realistic as opposed to K/DA or Vocaloids who actually bring character design into their animation.
Pandora is a bop, there's no doubt about that, but when you're supposedly a virtual group and give off an image that you're replacing real life idols, just as when AI is currently being harmful to so many artists and creative workers, it really wouldn't look good for them.
YOU SHOULD REACT TO XG SHOOTING STAR THEIR MV’S A TOP NOTCH THAT FIT WITH THE SONG VIBE❤❤❤❤✨
Yes pleaaase!
I feel like the difference between virtual groups and groups consisting of actual people is to a degree the same thing that separates AI art from art made by people in the eye of the consumer. A virtual group can have a fantastic song and a great music video, and people can appreciate the work that goes into it (think KDA) but people also appreciate the human touch, effort, story, and personality that come from actual people. I think the idea of virtual artists is interesting and worth exploring, and I will certainly appreciate great work (I'm a huge fan of KDA) but I think I can also speak for many people when I say that I also don't ever want to see virtual performers largely replacing human ones. I also sort of question the idea of virtual groups when they aren't entirely computer-generated; if MAVE, for example, has four real performers behind it performing the vocals (and possibly the choreo for motion capture) why not just use VFX to put them into these virtual worlds? Miku Hatsune makes more sense to me in this case because even the voice (while based on samples of a real voice) are computer generated.
I really don’t want virtual idols…we can’t talk to them or anything!Please no…😢
The scary thing is that you can talk to them, you seen chat gpt?!?
@@LordTitus7 well fun to talk to a virul person u know is not real,really turning into a psycopath now💕
yet this is cool and all, it feels scary. there's also this new boy group called superkind and they have 2 ai members. and yes, the rest of the group is human. my concern with this ai age is that it can to overshadow and deprive the hard work of so many trainees and idols. i like mave's music and production. they all made an incredible work on this. but it's still hard to digest this idea haha
loved the vid jordan xoxo
If you like MAVE, you might also like SUPERKIND! They're a group with human members and an AI member, Saejin (and a new one will be added with the comeback named Seung)
Everytime I come across a post/comments about MAVE, stuff they talk about on em sometimes literally just reminds me of a webtoon I've read which is "BEYOND VIRTUAL" wherein a famous Virtual Group exists on that webtoon, and the people there, well just some, can also interact with them thru VR on their devices... while idol trainees there struggle to debut, that virtual group continues to gain fame, and their company/agency might even plan on making more groups like them and they recruit/choose people that they find kinda suitable as a model for the visuals of the virtual idols that they'd like to create... it's been a while since I've started reading that, and haven't really been able to continue on reading latest chapters of it. Anywaysss, I look forward to MAVE's cb's but I'd still prefer real life idols&groups...I do find it cool how virtual groups are emerging, but I just hope these types of groups won't get to overcome the real-life ones. Sure they can create these awesome looking virtual idols and concepts but having the real-life idols and groups still gonna hit different.
I was also so in shock with the movements of the AI's. Like, for the first time, it look like a great done job!
I love Mave so much but tbh i dont want everything to become animated like this cause like i wanna become an idol
I still want my REAL K-Pop idol to follow and connect with, I still want my REAL K-Pop idols to watch vareity content with, and I still want my REAL K-Pop idols to watch at concerts and in-person. For me, virtual will never replace the real thing.
Even if they get actors to give the idols a personality or so they can interact it doesn't feel genuine since the AI idol has a different person for the dancing, singing and acting. It's not done by one person
Yeah idk about how big its going to be for kpop as the industry built itself around the concept of idols and the parasocial interactions the fans get from the idols ! But if they figure out how to get people really involved in their content on a personnal level, it's gonna be HUGE
8:33 - 8:40 love this scene...cool af. not simp or stan over 3d animation/AI but im appreciated their voice singer though..
I honestly find it kinda funny how people are arguing in the comments. I think it's important to note that those are real people behind the avatars, including the dance. The girls who sing for MAVE are the same ones who dance because tracking is used (like itzy's not shy english/zepeto mv, I'm not really sure what the correct wording is here), so it's not like their training went to waste or their company didn't give them any training.
Anyway I'm really excited to see what MAVE has in store and I think they're gonna do well in this industry, especially as they can't have people commenting on their looks etc. like real idols.
I find it funny how people saying these things don't know that each and every part of the "dancing" and "singing" is animated and generated. Also zepeto is also animated with everything virtually. I hope ur not shocked to someday coming across a video of MAVE's creation.
@@Girl_in_Luv_ot7 what’s that meant to mean 😭 /gen
@@stressed2themax it's like these performing figures u see are recorded in layers just like u add layers to ur online art (if yk what I mean) and they are basically played all together in frames. So the vocal part can be generated (by that I mean there are many voice generator softwares). And these are compiled and played as a 3D recording.. did you get it?
@@Girl_in_Luv_ot7 yeah I get you but that's not what's happening here lol, mave use their real voices if nothing else
@@stressed2themax but it's so absurd not to reveal your face behind such a fame. Their voices are killing it so why not just come out as humans too 🥲
I absolutely love everything about the song and MV. Even my boyfriend who hates pop music said this is actually really good. I don’t care about haters lol y’all can go cry in a corner.
Atleast they don't have to be insecure if they recieve hate nor go to strict diets
I think it is really cool because music groups currently focus on just good looking talented but really young individuals as performance artists. While this opens a world of avenue for talented people of all ages and diversities. It is real cool. Plus there are still choreographers, artists singing, artists producing music, developers, etc., so nobody is actually getting out of job. I cannot wait for this future.
You should review shooting stars by XG!!!