yes, a great deal of organist play it MUCH TOO FAST nowadays !!! I think especially of Wayne Marshall... th-cam.com/video/_FZ6fO-NsCI/w-d-xo.html always faster and faster 😇 : th-cam.com/video/kmh3FHLz40w/w-d-xo.html even Daniel Roth comments his fast playing at St sulpice over here : th-cam.com/video/gh86z7YcWMc/w-d-xo.html
have a look at this very funny performance, by 3 of the best organists in the world ( and the very best one (=Olivier Latry !) ) ! Guess how many organists are playing the same piece at the same time on the same keyboard ?? 😇😁 th-cam.com/video/G3iMguRdddk/w-d-xo.html
Wider was in his late 70’s when this was recorded and in keeping with age his faculties were slower and this would have affected the tempo. I often wonder what it would have sounded like when he was 40.
Having Play'd St. Sulpice 1in 1992 ( with daniel Roth present) I could feel the presence of "The Master" and his "slower" tempo ( acoustics) instinctively as i play'd. The "Room" will tell you ....how to play the great French Masters and their equivalents. B Hardy ( Australia)
We had this played at our wedding.. via recording! (the small town organists said they wouldn't even attempt it!? 😐) Wonderful to hear it played by the Master himself~! ❤
A quote from Widor, from Vierne's autobiography: "Grandeur is the organ’s essential characteristic. ‘This is because, of all musical instruments, the organ alone can sustain sound indefinitely and with the same intensity. The organ can be picturesque only rarely and, even then, care must be taken not to expect it to imitate orchestral and pianistic effects. That would be an inartistic parody. Although Bach has left some miraculously descriptive works, it must be noted that pieces in this style are in a very small minority compared with those in very slow or moderate tempos. Moreover, independent of all other considerations-basic and quite important-the very nature of the organ’s sound and the absence of a percussive attack are contrary to the concept of great velocity. The organ is almost always played too fast. Young people easily yield to the desire to dazzle the audience by this means. Beware! It is a false virtuosity appropriate to the circus-not the tribune.”
His innitial directions were ALL staccato, both hands. This tempo never changed but later he tried the left hand phrasing as played here. I studied this piece with one of Widor's students years ago, before Widor tried the "new" phrasing. I love the tempo here but I prefer his first instructions on total staccato. Great to have this recording!
Even though its at the more popular up tempo, the rendition by Daniel Chorzempa at St Sernin has the best articulation and clarity I've ever heard, even to the point where I could hear notes I didn't even know were there. Its worth a listen.
St Sulpice, like all the Cavaillé-Coll, is tuned on diapason A 435 Hz at 15 °C. Here we have an A 438.5 Hz. If realy this toccata was recorded in october 1932 , not in summer, the diapason is too much high . So eiher the date of the recording is false, or this record goes too fast, even if most people think that Widor already plays slowly ...
How wonderful the internet is that one can not only listen to the original composer but read analysis from intelligent and clever men like you. Thank you.
'Much' too high? 3.5 Hz in 435 is 0.8%. Who knows what they used in 1932 (the tape recorder was about to be invented) and what re-recordings have happened since!
@@FrankTexas-fe4gj in France in 1932, it wasn't recorded on a tape recorder but on an engraved master disc which was reproduced after. We are not sure of the exact speed of the disc, but we know about the diapason of the instrument , and with this technic of recording, there is a link beetween the diapason and the speed of the recording. We also know the weather and the temperature in september en october 1932 in Paris , and we also know that the church wasn't heaten - It would mean that the temperture of the church would have be about 19-20°C, which is impossible in Paris in october ..... all these clues makes me think that the record speed is too fast or that the date of the recording is wrong ...
Lovely to hear Widor playing Widor. Slower than most recent performances
yes, a great deal of organist play it MUCH TOO FAST nowadays !!!
I think especially of Wayne Marshall...
th-cam.com/video/_FZ6fO-NsCI/w-d-xo.html
always faster and faster 😇 : th-cam.com/video/kmh3FHLz40w/w-d-xo.html
even Daniel Roth comments his fast playing at St sulpice over here : th-cam.com/video/gh86z7YcWMc/w-d-xo.html
have a look at this very funny performance, by 3 of the best organists in the world ( and the very best one (=Olivier Latry !) ) !
Guess how many organists are playing the same piece at the same time on the same keyboard ?? 😇😁
th-cam.com/video/G3iMguRdddk/w-d-xo.html
Wider was in his late 70’s when this was recorded and in keeping with age his faculties were slower and this would have affected the tempo. I often wonder what it would have sounded like when he was 40.
@@epincion The tempo wasn't related to age. It's documented that he didn't like, when organists played his toccata too fast.
Having Play'd St. Sulpice 1in 1992 ( with daniel Roth present) I could feel the presence of "The Master" and his "slower" tempo ( acoustics) instinctively as i play'd. The "Room" will tell you ....how to play the great French Masters and their equivalents. B Hardy ( Australia)
Incredible that its a 1932 recording !!!
This is so much more enjoyable than the super-duper-vivace at which some attempt it.
We had this played at our wedding.. via recording! (the small town organists said they wouldn't even attempt it!? 😐) Wonderful to hear it played by the Master himself~! ❤
A quote from Widor, from Vierne's autobiography:
"Grandeur is the organ’s essential characteristic. ‘This is because, of all musical instruments, the organ alone can sustain sound indefinitely and with the same intensity. The organ can be picturesque only rarely and, even then, care must be taken not to expect it to imitate orchestral and pianistic effects. That would be an inartistic parody. Although Bach has left some miraculously descriptive works, it must be noted that pieces in this style are in a very small minority compared with those in very slow or moderate tempos. Moreover, independent of all other considerations-basic and quite important-the very nature of the organ’s sound and the absence of a percussive attack are contrary to the concept of great velocity. The organ is almost always played too fast. Young people easily yield to the desire to dazzle the audience by this means. Beware! It is a false virtuosity appropriate to the circus-not the tribune.”
😀
This is such a joy to listen to and dwell on the music itself in such wonderful accoustics.
Agree.. It’s not about the”show”, but about the music itself! Love it!
His innitial directions were ALL staccato, both hands. This tempo never changed but later he tried the left hand phrasing as played here. I studied this piece with one of Widor's students years ago, before Widor tried the "new" phrasing. I love the tempo here but I prefer his first instructions on total staccato. Great to have this recording!
Total staccato? do you mean that the way Cochereau plays it in his 1959 recording is how Widor originally played it?
Fascinating, thanks!
Never fails to impress! Thank you for posting.
Even though its at the more popular up tempo, the rendition by Daniel Chorzempa at St Sernin has the best articulation and clarity I've ever heard, even to the point where I could hear notes I didn't even know were there. Its worth a listen.
It's true... one of the best, if not THE best rendition.
C'est très solennel avec les basses et surtout le tempo lent voulu par l'auteur.
St Sulpice, like all the Cavaillé-Coll, is tuned on diapason A 435 Hz at 15 °C. Here we have an A 438.5 Hz.
If realy this toccata was recorded in october 1932 , not in summer, the diapason is too much high .
So eiher the date of the recording is false, or this record goes too fast, even if most people think that Widor already plays slowly ...
Thank you very much for this interesting information!
How wonderful the internet is that one can not only listen to the original composer but read analysis from intelligent and clever men like you. Thank you.
'Much' too high? 3.5 Hz in 435 is 0.8%. Who knows what they used in 1932 (the tape recorder was about to be invented) and what re-recordings have happened since!
@@FrankTexas-fe4gj in France in 1932, it wasn't recorded on a tape recorder but on an engraved master disc which was reproduced after. We are not sure of the exact speed of the disc, but we know about the diapason of the instrument , and with this technic of recording, there is a link beetween the diapason and the speed of the recording. We also know the weather and the temperature in september en october 1932 in Paris , and we also know that the church wasn't heaten - It would mean that the temperture of the church would have be about 19-20°C, which is impossible in Paris in october ..... all these clues makes me think that the record speed is too fast or that the date of the recording is wrong ...