+Some Black Guy That's what I have to say to/about stupid, bigoted SJW Feminists and their supporters: plus.google.com/101700419832707251773/posts/LEtuvyLEYNe plus.google.com/101700419832707251773/posts/X3KyeWsbHC3 plus.google.com/101700419832707251773/posts/UQi682fFex8 plus.google.com/101700419832707251773/posts/c4rqjvuMZBi plus.google.com/101700419832707251773/posts/EoEK6ciHTEh plus.google.com/101700419832707251773/posts/EMLsz2kGMQJ plus.google.com/101700419832707251773/posts/BYxTbJw7Cnq plus.google.com/101700419832707251773/posts/2HGPUfQ524X plus.google.com/101700419832707251773/posts/H87h7wTS4CN plus.google.com/101700419832707251773/posts/QF3c3vSvqAq plus.google.com/101700419832707251773/posts/2HkxoNTiKRa
+Joey Image Which is actually exactly the reason why nationalism or national pride of any kind is plain stupid. "My parents happened to live in country x or y when they fucked." You had no influence on where you were born, so do yourself a favour and burn your flag.
+betyar bob I agree, it really is insanely stupid when you get to the root of it. No one has any control over who they are. You're born the way you are and that's it. You're supposed to be proud of your accomplishments in life, not your genetics or heritage that you had literally 0 control over.
While I agree that the whole concept of racial "pride" is totally irrational, I'm not so much inclined to put "Black Pride" in the same category as "White Pride." To me, there's one key difference between them. White Pride = "WE BELONG ON TOP!" Black Pride = "WE REFUSE TO BE CONSIGNED TO THE VERY BOTTOM!"
+Guitcad1 that's only yours and the KKK's demented translation of what "white pride" would mean . Should there be a slogan for white pride ? not really , but there shouldn't be one for "black pride" either. We should all just take pride in ourselves and our ancestoery with the unnecessary dynamics of calling that shit out to others as through you are some how better than those around you. To me white pride , that's taking pride in being white. is about not feeling some unecessary guilt hanging over my head all day because some white guys 50-400 years ago were dick bags. and if some racist fuck wants to say "but slavery, " well guess what , I never owned a slave I never knew any one that owned a slave, and the first slavers on the planet were the Egyptians, a people that many African Americans love to claim as theirs, so what the fuck ever. P.S. the most enslaved people in today's world are women from the middle east , the far east and western white women , I'm referring to the various global slave trafficking rings , not some retarded first world feminist shit. A lot of these Human traffic runners are not white FYI.
***** you said that white guilt is "unecessary guilt hanging over my head all day because some white guys 50-400 years ago were dick bags." combine that with no statement about modern-day racism and i'd say that's a fair assumption to make.
The thing I think Robb was trying to articulate in the differences between black pride and white pride is that when black pride became popular in the 1960's its agenda was to give black people equal rights and equal treatment. White white pride or white power it's always been an agenda of the belief that the white race is superior and they deserve privilege because of that. I agree with what you're saying that the belief that any race is superior is stupid. I just want to give you my take on the differences. Great video man. I definitely appreciated hearing your perspective.
Black Pride was more about regaining identity lost for over 400 years due to slavery and nationwide racism. These 'white power' idiots are scared white folk who can't even recall their own ancestry for the most part and thus lash out at people who actually show a connection to their history.
+Michael Bell Try googling "white pride". You can be proud to be white all you want, but the fact is that the wording "white pride" has other connotations, and you need to be aware of that.
+Erik Sundstrom That's like saying atheism has some bad connotations to it so you need to be aware that just because some people did bad things in the past or placed extra baggage onto this term or phrase that you can expect and must live with an ad hoc bigotry of it. Take your time. Work it out.
+Erik Sundstrom You could say the same thing about black pride. It could be about embracing you're heritage, but it could also have racist meanings. If one is acceptable, then so is the other. Both are stupid anyway because it's taking pride in your skin color, which nobody has any control over or even worked for.
ENJ4321: I'm sorry you feel hurt. My advice would be to try to distinguish between the music and the artist. You don't have to like or agree with the artist on a personal level to enjoy the music. But I understand it can be hard since music you really like tend to feel really, really personal for some reason. It's kind of what I try to do with the works of my favourite author. I'm a huge fan of Howard Phillips Lovecraft and his short stories (he wrote most of them during the 1920's to the 1930's). The thing is, he was an academic racist. Not just "every day racist" like being bigoted towards non-whites but he basically believed in all this "racial purity" stuff, and when his stories did include black characters his detailed descriptions of them were usually quite derogatory to say the least. But I try to keep in mind that his views were not uncommon in the academic world in the U.S back then so I try to disregard his views as a product of the times. And also, I don't enjoy his short stories for their unflattering descriptions of black people, but for their themes regarding aliens, mystic and powerful divine intelligences, cosmic horrors and stuff like that. So I can like and enjoy reading Lovecraft without making excuses for his racist views.
Yes, I know. I just have more trouble supporting someone, who would have such thoughts against me...after I supported his art or music. I stopped reading anything of Lovecraft's after I found that out (I also really enjoyed his short stories). I'm even a classically trained violinist, but I can't listen to Wagner(I'm a fan of pro wrestling, and everytime I hear Daniel Bryan's theme song...I think how many people know it's Wagner). Anyway, I would be lying if I said I didn't feel...a little betrayed. I gave money to and my love (fan wise that is) to somebody who was calling me the n word behind my back. I totally understand what you mean by, separate the art from the person. However, it's shocking to know somebody has that kind of thinking...even though he may have those kind of people buying his art. Hell, Paula Deen has great recipes...but it's the principle. Eat awesome gourmet meals, created by someone who hates you...or eat peanut butter and jelly?
ENJ4321: I hear you. But you've got to keep in mind that even artists that we think are great are still just people. Flawed people, suffering from all manner of ignorance which shapes their views, statements and actions just like... Well pretty much anybody. It's easy to place people on a pedestahl when they create art that truly impress and speak to you on the individual level. This leads to a line of thought where we inevitably hold them to higher standards than we do with most people. And that's where that sense of betrayal comes from. When they do or say something that disappoints us. These artists never truly "betrayed" you personally, because they never even met you (in other words, they were ignorant of your existence). If they had, you could've been a very good reason for them to start having difficulties reconciling their views.
Another way I try to see it is that the combination of flaws and genius of the artist inevitably contributed to the results of their art as well. If they didn't have their flaws, then they might not have created their masterpieces in the first place. This should be most apparent in the metal scene, since the music, since it's inception has pretty much shone a spotlight on human flaws. "Sex, Drugs and Rock n roll" and all that.
Bro I respect Robb Flynn so much after this video. As a black person who started listening to rock and metal in high school, it was always difficult for me to find out where exactly I "fit in". I didn't fit with the black kids because i "act and talk white" and while I did fit in with the outcasts, losers and freaks, I got seriously harassed during a show by some racist assholes saying I don't belong here. The racism in the community is rampant and so it makes me happy to see such a response from the community saying this can't be tolerated.
+Treythegreat23 Sympathies to you. But don't discard Phil for this. He's behaviour is idiotic, but It's no different than rap-artists (who he obviously dislikes and back in the days we're his inspiration for those "white pride" speeches). The other thing is that he definetly likes the provocative stuff that flirts with extreme taboos, like racism. He liked Carnivore, which was just flatout provocative tongue-in-cheek metal, but Peter Steele was no racist or a anti-semite. He even made an "Der Untermensch"-song with his band and his best friend (who's jewish) was in that band. And Phil was also his friend. Honestly, Phil is a good guy, he's a fool but a good guy. He's associated with many variety of people and ethnicities and one of these was the PKN band consisting of only handicapped people. Also, my comment about metal being white.... Well it kinda is, but It has always been inclusive and it still should be. I'm sorry for the racist metal heads you've encountered and probably will counter. And I say that, not because you're black (and i'm not a sorry-ass-pc-white-bro), but because you're a metalhead.
+Treythegreat23 I don't think anyone should abuse you because you have one skin color or another. Also those "black kids" that said that you were "too white" were only ignorants and had the hateful demeanor specific to kids their age. If I'd see you at a gig getting beaten by anyone , I'd totally jump in with some friends and teach the motherfuckers a lesson about where violence should be placed in metal. And the only place for that is the Moshpit in which I'd gladly throw those idiots. Anyhow dude, don't give up on metal just because there are so many ignorant guys that don't understand it. After all , metal is a genre for the more open minded guys in the world.
+Adrian Z Seeing everyone here defending each other not because of race, but because of our common love of music, is very warming to me. Right now, it gives me hope that perhaps we're not too far off after all. I guess we'll all just have to wait and see...together. Stay metal, guys. \m/
ChidoriSnake I'd really love to see the metal community welcoming anyone that has a taste in it's music. Also we should keep our heads open to new sounds and to new ideas, so we don't end up like those stuck-up mainstream(and only that) music listeners. The gift of music it's an amazing one and we should share it like brothers. Also , nice cosplay , I'm a naruto fan too. Even though the last season of shippuden was a bit too long and it lost it's consistency.
+Treythegreat23 Bless you my friend ;) I believe in what your saying and I know it's exactly where the hearts of people like Rob who would speak up are at right now!
(Ethnic minority) Pride is not about boasting about the prowess of your racial background and its superiority over others. It is a response to institutionalized discrimination that has occurred in this land since - and before - its inception. Throughout the history of American soctiety, non-whites have been made to feel inferior to their white counterparts. "Pride" in your ethnicity is a response to that. When they have Gay Pride parades, it's not because they think their sexuality makes them better than straight people. It's simply a way for a community that has historically been on the receiving end of oppression to come together and refuse to accept anything less than being equals in society.
+leatherwings007 Pride "signalling" is practically always done as a way to effectively increase the perception of closeness and community within a certain group. On one hand this reinforces the people pertaining to such community and validates them, on the other, it also often serves to increase the perception of divergence between the people belonging to that group and outsiders, on both sides of the figurative fence. Ultimately its hard not to see pride "signalling" and its effects as a double-edged sword, reinforcing some people's opposition to the group as a whole, and driving some within said group to consider that they *are* better than other people in some degree, way, shape or form. And yes, that happens in LGBT groups and ethnic communities as well. Personally, while I can see its strengths when wielded by systematically disadvantaged and marginalized communities, I think its important to recognize it as something with limited utility and worth phasing out in favor of the understanding that you should be happy and at peace with elements of your person you have no control over.
+Andrew Nihil I mostly agree with this thread. I can't speak on the race discussion but I can explain my personal experiences with being Lgbt. We all know even in Western society people get disowned by their own family for being Lgbt - even though the legalisation in many places has changed. Even in the UK legal system there is lots of discrepancies, especially when it comes to Trans rights, even in Western Europe - where we are considered more 'liberal'. I think that's mostly because religion doesn't dictate as much what is socially acceptable. I have Eastern European friends who want to seek citizenship/asylum in the UK, because their hormone treatment will be stopped in their home country, or they genuinely believe they can't have a future with their partner or feel safe when they go back. Gay pride doesn't just serve as a way of uniting people against 'oppression' per say, it reminds people they aren't alone, and the only person going through those experiences. It gives people others to talk to. Personally I think it can be a little 'overtly sexual' sometimes but I understand it's history and why it is so 'out there'. Also another point of view, , from a dating point of view too, I know it sounds a little silly. If you walk into a room, you can see someone's skin colour, you can't see someone's sexuality, per say , you can make assumptions based on their behaviour or the way they dress but that's about it. It can leave you feeling really alone, unless you meet someone who is very 'out' or screams stereotype. Sure this has its benefits in dangerous situations (unless you look like a walking stereotype) , but not when it comes to dating anyway. You go to a Gay Pride meet and people are able to express themselves. Kiss, hold hands, because they feel safe to do so. Because for they don't feel so isolated as much as a minority or as intimidated. It also gives you hope if you see another same-sex couple together, that can be done. That's the vibe I get anyway. Does Black Pride have the same purpose and affect, or is it more a reminder of the heritage and the past battles? I'm just wondering, because people often draw parallels between the two.
Emm Rouse I feel like there's been some confusion here. I cannot speak from the viewpoint of an ethnic minority as I am not, and I feel like I can barely speak for that of other LGBT people as I've barely been involved in my local community myself. My consideration and displicence is not regarding what each group purportedly wishes to promote, celebrate, affirm or otherwise give visibility to. Its more to do with how claiming "pride" in a innate or invariable characteristic reinforces group identification through them, a type of identification that is by nature rigid and excludes others based on distinctions they've never had any power over. Purely because of how human minds work regarding groups, putting such onus on these distinct and inmutable characteristics creates divides between people, making some within the group disparage those who don't belong in it and adscribe negative connotations to them, and making some outsiders reactionary and likewise disparage those within the group. That's not to say that LGBT-pride parades and other displays and demonstrations don't have their good and their usefulness. Regarding pride parades in particular, yes, certainly there's lots of people who still take them as ways to socialize and network, though nowadays, with the internet (and apps like Grindr) and increasing acceptance in the west, I do get the impression that they are nowhere as important as they once were in that respect. But even these days, there's people within LGBT communities who aren't quite comfortable or happy with some aspects of pride parades (mostly the explicit sexualizing and feitshizing going on in some of them), and the impressions they can give to outsiders. Personally, while I understand that point, I don't give much of a damn about that, I merely have it in mind that pride parading should probably not be our "end-game", so to speak, and really not for anyone for that matter. That's a lot of writing, hope it was clarifying to some extent at least. Ps. Hope for the best for your easterner friends.
+Andrew Nihil Yes I see exactly what you mean. Although it could be argued due to the A /ally element involved in pride parades, no one is specifically excluded. Though I get the impression people feel they are slightly out of place. Also thank you. I hope so too.
FYI.. I'm not into metal, but I undertand your passion..and that you're able to seperate the music from the creator. Yes, you can cry "racist" or "bigot" ..when it applies..and it looks like it applies. I'm gay and I have trouble shouting in public: "Gay Pride".. I half understand the reaosning behind it 30 years ago.. I don't see the need for it today. Rock on
I agree we no longer need it in our community, marriage equality is a reality, bigotry still exists and it will always exist, the only thing we need to do now is focus on legislation to get big money out of politics so we can make this country truly great again, and sadly Trump is part of that rich vs poor war that's going on he's on the wrong side, but I'm more interested in congress and getting money and favors out of that shitshow, that's what pride should be supporting right now, everything else will fall into place for our community if money were taken from the politicians and placed in the hands of the people.
The difference between the whole white power vs black power thing is there is something to have pride in being black, according to those I have talked to who identify with that slogan. While you may have had it pretty good, I know countless black people where I'm from who do not. And that is today, and people who are from this new generation. Not baby boomers or even Gen X's. While I am not saying that black power has not been used once for violent/destructive effect, it has roots in the fact that black people ARE oppressed a grand majority of the time, and is a slogan of empowerment within those circumstances. 99.5% of the time, it is something said to encourage peaceful resistance against racial discrimination, not something that is said to entice violence or hatred, as saying the white version of it is. That's what Robb Flynn was trying to say, and it is a statement based on fact, not opinion. I have talked to several Black Panther members myself, and they have been nothing but kind and straight forward with me, and I have even invited me to sit in on their meetings at my local college. They do not preach hatred against whites, they preach empowerment of those who are oppressed. Of course there are a minority who take it all too far and turn the black power thing into something destructive, but that is a ridiculously small minority compared to literally all of the white supremacists who undeniable ARE trying to be dick heads. I respect your perspective, and I'm not saying you should kiss Flynn's ass about this. You have your own experiences and your own point of view. But calling Robb Flynn stupid for doing something as kindhearted and truth based as what he did was a bit uncalled for. I don't even like Machinehead really, or even metal all that much to be honest. But I don't think you should have really shit on his move to make improvements to the music genre as a whole when it comes to accepting different people. A lot of this video is just gonna be pointed out by those Phil Anselmo fans, who will pick out a single person's experience, to discredit the experiences of countless others. I think your perspective of the black power thing is much too exclusive to your own personal experiences, and doesn't account for the countless experiences of countless others.
+Soup the Eternal There are differences between black pride and white pride as you say, but they are both racist. There are rational political reasons to come together with people of your own race if and to the extent that you're all persecuted on the same basis. Then it isn't race itself around which you rally and unify, but merely that you as individuals are spurred by similar circumstances to respond to the same problem. For such a political movement, racial pride, no matter the colour, should not be the rallying call. It should be "racism is ignorant" or "we're not going to take it anymore," not "we fight together because we are the same race, and our race is the best!" And no, saying that you're proud to be black is not the rational response to being told you should be ashamed of being black, it is simply a knee-jerk reaction. The rational response is to say that your race is IRRELEVANT to your pride.
Travis Gooden It's not like I'm saying black people should feel bad about themselves, much less that they don't have a "right" to feel good about themselves. You're twisting my words so badly, I don't know why you can't just deal with the reality of what I actually said, which is simply that race doesn't matter, and you're an individual and you don't owe allegiance to people of similar racial background. It isn't necessary in order to feel good about yourself as an individual for who and what you are and what you've accomplished and will accomplish in your life, to say that you're proud to be part of a group of people who look similar and have nothing else in common with you. I mean at least homosexuality is a concrete behavioral difference, not like race. And like I said, you SHOULD get together with other people who relate to your persecution, IF you're persecuted, and people of various persuasions who want what's right for you even if it doesn't directly effect them (white people who oppose racism, like myself), but if you're united by personal experiences and by ideological agendas, then that's DIFFERENT than just being part of the same race, which by itself is totally meaningless.
eggory First off homosexuality is exactly like race. It isnt a choice just like how race isnt. But second of all race is not meaningless lol maybe to you it is but to a vast majority of the world it isnt. Sure on a biological scientific scale it is meaningless which is the way I think you are approaching this. But on a cultural level it is very important. People look at you and treat you differently based on your race. Then of course it is not necessary but dude it helps. That is why there are all this sub division because of underrepresentation. Because people do not get accepted or represented. Thats why it is all there. On a cultural level people stand together and feel empathy for one another based on race and based on many other things but race is one of them. I and I feel like many would agree with me that, that is a fact. You can not just ignre race because it has not been ignored throughout history. On a scientifc level race does not matter. In a perfect world yes race would not matter but we are not in that perfect world. In this world it does and in this world I feel like a vast majority feels that way I get what youre saying but it does matter
eggory except nothing you have said is actually factual. And the pride in being black stems from overcoming oppression due directly to the color of skin. I even made mention of this lol.
im a life time Pantera, Down, etc fan... what Phil said is bullshit... people have said to me "why do you like Pantera? dont u know their racist..." to which i replied " none of their songs are that i can tell and I've never seen anything to proove racism..." well now I have... RIP Dimebag. and big ups to Rob for having the balls to bring this up. Just saw Machinehead for the firat time [finally] back in November and it was fucking amazing! wont miss em again. man did they rip LIVE. Long live Metal, down with racist BS!
Racist. How dare you say dogs and cats don't matter. I mean, what's the point of the internet without them? What am I going to do? Just watch videos of people? That's no way to live!
+a.fro80y History is good for reverence, but acting like history should be applied now is what the problem is. Yeah white people owned slaves 160 years ago, what the fuck does that have to do with my lily white ass now? Yeah, the Japanese bombed Peral Harbor 75 years ago, what the fuck does it have to do with modern day Japan? And yes 200 years ago Mexico tried to take over Texas and even went to war with America, but what the fuck does that have to do with modern day Mexians?
***** Yeah no shit racism and discrimination still exists, stop the fucking presses. Last I checked the Japanese and Americans love each other (just look at Otaku for proof of that), I grew up in Texas so I can safely say Mexican Americans and legal immigrates get along pretty well with us there in the Lone Star State as well as the rest of the south. And last I checked the only people who want colored folk places are the racist regressive SJWs and BLM. So really no problems in sight from were we Southerns are looking. And before you go off on some tirade about my white vantage point I'd like to point out I live near and went to college in Savannah Georgia, we have a pretty even split of blank and white with a note worthy Indian population and we tend to get along pretty well here.
Ash Williams Well they weren't a very popular band. I was lucky enough to see them open for LoG/SFU in 02 and experience the awesome. I don't wanna ruffle any feathers but I think they didn't get as popular as they should have because 4 of the 5 members were black.
+Fleck there's a ton of metal bands that dont get popular, regardless of their skin color. btw i got their song "end of the world" a looong time ago, very good!
Everyone should be proud of who they are and where they came from. I'm proud of my European heritage, you should be proud of your African heritage. It's not personal pride, but the sort of pride you might have in your kid or best friend who stood up to a bully or accomplished something great. Or in your grandfather who fought in WWII. It's pride in the sense that you're part of something great; being part of a particular bloodline, being made of the very same DNA as the vikings who explored North America for the first time hundreds of years ago. It gives me motivation to live up to my ancestors and make something of myself, continuing on the tradition of cultural progress. However, at no point does this necessitate looking down on or even hating others who are unlike me. Every culture has both light and dark spots in their history.
I totally agree. I'm proud of my Norwegian heritage but they also did a lot of raping and pillaging. I'm also proud of my German heritage but you know the whole two world wars so yeah. There is no race, culture, or religion that doesn't have some horrible crap in their past.
TheSaferHouse Right on, Carlin and few other long dead "comedians" had common sense and logic by the ton. Which is too bad, as it seems these days, common sense and logic are so rare, its like they are Super Powers or some shit....
+Gorgo Tz These 2 cover it. I could never understand ethnic or national pride. Because to me, pride should be reserved for something you achieve or attain on your own, not something that happens by accident of birth. Being Irish isn't a skill, it’s a fucking genetic accident. You wouldn't say “I’m proud to be 5’11”. I’m proud to have a predisposition for colon cancer.” So why the fuck would you be proud to be Irish, or proud to be Italian, or American or anything ---------------------------------------------------------------------- First of all, I say "black." I say "black" because most people prefer "black." I don't say "people of color." People of color sounds like something you see when you're on mushrooms. Besides, the use of people of color is dishonest. It means precisely the same as colored people. If you're not willing to say "colored people," you shouldn't be saying "people of color." Besides, the whole idea of color is bullshit anyway. What should we call white people? "People of no color"? Isn't pink a color? In fact, white people are not really white at all, they're different shades of pink, olive, and beige. In other words, they're colored. And black people are rarely black. I see mostly different shades of brown and tan. In fact, some light-skinned black people are lighter than the darkest white people. Look how dark the people in India are. They're dark brown, but they're considered white people. What's going on here? May I see the color chart? "People of color" is an awkward, bullshit, liberal-guilt phrase that obscures meaning rather than enhancing it. Shall we call fat people, "people of size"? I also don't say "African-American." I find it completely illogical, and furthermore it's confusing. Which part of Africa are we talking about? What about Egypt? Egypt is in Africa. Egyptians aren't black. They're like the people in India, they're dark brown white people. But they're Africans. So why wouldn't an Egyptian who becomes a U.S. citizen be an African-American? The same thing goes for the Republic of South Africa. Suppose a white racist from South Africa becomes an American citizen? Well, first of all he'd find plenty of company, but couldn't he also be called an African-American? It seems to me that a racist white South African guy could come here and call himself African-American just to piss off black people. And, by the way, what about a black person born in South Africa who moves here and becomes a citizen? What is he? An African-South African-American? Or a South African-African-American? All right, back to this hemisphere. How about a black woman who is a citizen of Jamaica? According to P.C. doctrine, she's an African-American, right? But if she becomes a U.S. citizen, she's Jamaican-American. And yet if one of these language crusaders saw her on the street, he'd think she was an African-American. ... It's just so much liberal bullshit. Labels divide people. We need fewer labels, not more.
I've listened to Pantera since the early 90s and yeah, Phil has always had problems like booze and drugs or whatever, but i never noticed anything racist about him or the music. There are several vids about this so apparently it's true but i'm kind of surprised by it.
indeed. when i see a black guy listening to country music or rock and get out of a lifted truck im like fuck yes. so badass. it throws me off still but fucking ay you guys pull it off well.
Pride is the most horrible thing, it does not keep you warm at night, does not fill your stomach when hungry, does not shade you from the heat, does not cover you from the rain, all it does is keep you from what you need to survive.
Skin color doesn't have shit to do with it, for anyone. Even actual racists don't care about the color of anyone's skin. It's about the way certain groups tend to behave.
I've been into metal for a while and actually had no idea Phil was throwing up white power signs. Pantera is of course a classic band of American metal, but I've definitely been more on the side of the more contemporary bands in the genre. So apparently he apologized for the most recent incident but there was some some controversy apparently in 1995 where he was associated with white pride or something. Yeah, he's probably racist. No, you're not a SJW for calling him out on it. He should be called out on it. Totally reasonable. And yeah some people are like that and will continue to be like that. I think he knows that his beliefs are unacceptable and I'm sure he knows he's in the wrong. And like SBG was saying, he mostly keeps it to himself. So what do you you do? I think you just sort of break your silence and say, "Hey, Phil - STFU, stop being a racist prick" and move on. If it continues to be a problem, just let him alienate himself and don't support anything he's a part of.
"I don't need to be proud of the color of my skin because I was never taught to be ashamed of it." -White Guy You said yourself that you've never experienced racism. So, from other people's perspectives, black pride might actually matter. Just food for thought from another perspective.
When you were talking about Howard Jones, I immediately thought of the 80's pop singer. Nearly shit myself laughing of the thought of him yelling 'BLACK PRIDE.'
Silly abstract conjectures. Music bands are a composite, like a car, an airplane, etc. they are what they because of a composition of many things. If you take out the engine, you have no car. If you put a Ferrari engine in an old Lada (shitty Russian car) you won't have a supercar. The lead singer is the most important factor in the majority of bands. Even though many bands are actually created and run by other musicians or even people outside of the band, the singer is still "the front man". That's not "my opinion", that's just how the world is, and you know it.
Harry H HIGHLY disagree. Pantera was greater than the sum of it's parts. Without Phil Pantera was nothing. Without Vinnie and Dime, Pantera was nothing. Phil is a great talent, but a shit human.
Interesting take. An argument I can't stand is the "Well, why can't WE be shitty, cause THOSE GUYS are shitty too" rationalization. One of the commenters below asks, "What about racism in rap music?" Yeah. What about it? The notion that Anselmo should be excused because Professor Griff or whoever is also a racist is absurd on the face of it.
+Dirty Swagger Although I think a part of what makes the "what about rap" question significant is that it is seldom acknowledged, only when white rappers come to prominence is racism ever seriously discussed. The universal shitting on Iggy Azalea for example. It would be much less toxic IMO if she was black and probably non existent if American. Ultimately though, I agree completely with you and Some Black Guy's point.
I am an advocate of NON-VIOLENT free speech. In other words, I would use the 2nd Amendment to protect anyone's 1st Amendment, even if I didn't agree with them; I believe one is able to do, and say, what they want as long as that action is not physically harassing or antagonizing anyone. If what the guy said is true, and they want to do it in their little collective circles, so be it. If it is okay to have some 'Black Power' concert in the middle of the Superbowl, I believe it should be okay to have a 'White Power' concert in the middle of where ever. And, to be frank, it really isn't 'racist' until we start thinking one race is superior to another. Of all the things we can change in life, race/ethnicity is not one of them. The more tolerant we become about racial language, the more tolerant we become as a culture. Pretty simple.
Phil can say what he want, but freedom of speech does not grant you freedom from criticism. I have never liked Phil and his views, but at the end of the day it's important to be able to separate the artist from the art. I still enjoy Pantera, not matter what spews from his mouth.
I 100% agree, except that I don't actually like Pantera so I don't enjoy them, lol. But yeah, the separating artist from art is a great point. Unless it becomes a part of the art, it's pretty trivial. Like with Ozzy actually being a pretty devout Christian. His music doesn't really reflect it, so I still enjoy his music, mostly. Beck is a bat shit crazy Scientologist, but I still like his music. Billy Corgan has become a Trump supporting ultra conservative but I still nearly blow my speakers when a Smashing Pumpkins song comes on. Unless Ozzy starts heavily preaching Jesus through his music, Beck starts preaching crazy ass aliens starting life on Earth bullshit in his or Billy preaching putting up a wall along our border in his, their beliefs are very trivial to their music. We all have the right to say whatever we want, but I still think Phil was in the wrong. He can have those opinions but its a "know your audience" kind of thing. When he gave the Nazi salute and screamed "white power" he essentially told everyone in the audience who probably loved the show and had a great time but are any race other than white the he hates them. Again, he can say whatever he wants, but there comes a certain level of responsibility when you are a prominent member of any community, especially if you are literally standing in front of that community.
RobertSchmidt I totally agree man. It makes a big difference when you're on a stage and all that. If he said it out of the limelight, it would have made a huge difference (in that this whole thing wouldn't have happened). On the other side of things, what did anyone really get out of complaining about it? We've all forgotten about this whole thing now, which shows how some people care so much about Phil's actions one day but forget about it the next. So really, we're all in the wrong here!
If you told me Denzel Washington hated white people or the same for Samuel L Jackson or Danny Glover even Eddie Murphy I would still love their work and everything they did
What is the point in being prideful about either being oppressed, being an oppressor, or otherwise being inconsequential? The past of most lineages has a lot of suckage either way.
I'm half Black and white. I love metal music. I'm glad you spoke out on this man we don't need to emphasize our color to be proud to be a human or be negative to other people. I am glad people are finally calling this dude out on what he seems to do every show he is at. So good for Rob and good for you dude you have my respect on speaking about this stuff
I'm a Bernie Sanders suppoter. I'm pro civial righs. And I'm a Pantera fan. How? Because you can't combine all of the band members into one politcal view.
Totally agree with you man! .You'r the first US legit black guy that i ever hear that speaks about this issue without any taboos or any kind of complex I can't get it this whole thing about racism,specially in Usa ,bcz in the rest of the world there is not such perspective. btw check my channel
WhiteNeckMedia WTF??? No such thing as racism in the rest of the world? Are you nuts??? I lived in Germany for 10 years, and Germans are still waaaayyyyy more racist than any American! They DESPISE Russians, Turks, and Jews still! Racism isn't only about skin color. It's about other races of people! And the rest of the world is FULL of racism!
I really don't think it's an SJW thing to call out someone who is obviously a racist. Phil is a dick aside from the racist thing but I still listen to Pantera occasionally. Also, I know both conservative racists and open minded leftists that are into metal...liking the music has nothing to do with your politics or feelings about other races.
it may be grand standing or something like that but generally when i find out a band member or a whole musical group is into some racist shit or has bigoted beliefs i stop listening to them, i guess on principle. I feel that I don't listen to them or buy their music that's less support i'm giving them. if the band gets rid of the f'd up member then sure i'll listen to them again. Am i a baby for doingthing/acting like that? You can call me what ever you want but that's what i believe. It's like when i found out Frank Sinatra was an asshole. yeah he's not making money anymore it but when ever i hear his voice i think of the accounts of women saying he abused them. Sometime i can separate the artist from their misdeeds other times i cannot.
I'm an old 80's and 90's speed metal head . I'm almost 49 now and listen to other things too but I still love Slayer , Overkill , Vio-Lence , Destruction , Celtic Frost , Candle Mass , Merciful Fate , ect . Cool to know your a fan :-)
Had to stop it at 1:25 . Wait, so people are being silent about Phil's supposed racism. What about the racist rap songs, against whites by black men? Is there not a lot of silence from the black community in not calling that kind of crap out? Because you and I both know, that kind of thing is MUCH MORE prevalent in rap than it is in metal. What about blacks not ever calling out these BlackLivesMatter folks and all of the hatred they spew? I never see black folks demonstrating against black lives matter. It's a two way street buddy.
WAKE ME UP CANT WAKE UP It has everything to do with it. If you watched the video, and stopped at 1:25, you'd understand I'm rebuking what he just said. Although you're too tunnel visioned to understand that I suppose.
Odacchi Ice Cube, Public Enemy, Brother Ali. There are others. Many won't say racist things plain as day, but veiled threats are there. I could up the ante quite a bit if I wanted to and say most rappers are racist if I wanted to include all of the rappers who continually rail against 'the system'. The system or some other similar permutation of that concept, just different wording. The system being code for white hegemony. Or in their eyes, a white patriarchal system of oppression. A white system of jurisprudence that holds down the black man. The police could also just as easily be read as the greater white population as well. Because as we all know, music is open to interpretation. I can't tell you how many rappers I've listened to that subtly or overtly make reference to these themes.
+Illumirage so what? this is how it works team or something listen i am black and i don't like rap so don't address me with shit those fucking thugs do ok ? rap born in this hood/thug neighborhood and yes it got alot of that but what do you expect of someone that uses "nigga" as a coma ? just don't address all blacks like me responsible for the shit they say the same way i won't blame you the racist slurs many country songs say as a black british guy a totally despise the word nigga
I'm from Fort Worth, Texas, the birthplace of Pantera. I love them, but it's common knowledge that Phil is a racist. I don't respect it. Plus he's garbage to fans. But aside from that, I love Pantera. Met Vinnie Paul a couple times. Nice guy. Dime passed away the night before my 20th birthday. I was crushed that night. Pantera, even with Phil's rhetoric is in my blood.
The idea that oppression of minorities or racism is in the past is a fatal flaw with modern conversations about racism. If you haven't been discriminated against, you are either ridiculously lucky, don't live in the US, or are oblivious
You've hit the nail on the head. The whole thing about the pride, people should take pride in their own personal achievements rather than trying to take pride in something they were born with.
+Sick k.l (homothug) sorry I did not make it clear enough for you. I was just making a statement in General. I dont care if either race says they have "power"
Great video man. I agree let's keep all this nonsense neo-nazi BLM whatever issues away from metal. Saint Rob and meathead Phil should just focus making kick-ass music. Rob should seriously get over this and not make his lame white guilt songs.
My favourite music band is Amorphis, they are from Finland and songs are in English, they have songs of different sub-genre of metal. I recommend it to everyone. They are great
I'm a Metalhead myself and I think that you should just listen to the music regardless of what the band members stand for. Just keep your eyes open to their human side because we aren't perfect and you like the music keep listening to it, just remember that aren't realy the best people arround (if they aren't indeed good people)
I agree completely. I was shocked when the frontman for Lost Prophets was outed as a pedophile. In fact, I learned about it in the most awkward situation possible. I worked at a Hastings store and was running the Lifestyles department (basically everything that isn't movies or books). So I had control over the music on my shift. So I put in Start Something, and the manager from video basically ran up to me and started yelling at me for playing the music of a pedophile. For a few days, I didn't play it again, but ultimately I came to the conclusion that it didn't matter to me. I played the band for their music and what it meant to me as one of the bands that helped me through middle school and early high school. You bet your ass that I will never deny, dissemble, or defend Ian, but that won't change my love of the band and the anger I feel on behalf of the other members that will forever be associated with that nutjob because of their working relationship.
Also metal has its racist minority, but it's the exception, not the rule. Any music genre and it's fans are simply a reflection of the society they are part of. The great thing about metal is it doesn't matter what your political views, religion or ethnicity is, there is metal out there that takes those things to an extreme. Most metal is about the music, but many subgenres are very political or religious, you have left and right wing, Christian, Satanic, occult shit, paganism, and all that shit. But most big bands are not about that shit. Metal is a conduit for your most extreme emotions, It is so extreme that the fans and the artists don't have to be. They let all their madness out through the music and are generally very easy going as a result. Metal is a positive thing that gets misunderstood to be negative. Some of the nicest people I know are onto metal.
I'm so glad I found you on the TH-cams. You are extremely intelligent and your arguments are rational and reasonable. I also appreciate your sense of humor. "My parents fucked, and now I'm black" is gold. Please keep doing what you're doing!
Right with you there. No one should be ashamed of their skin colour. But it's not something to announce that you're proud of, the way you can be proud of an achievement.
I'm new to your channel and from what I've seen I just want to take a minute and commend you on your overall view point. I appreciate your matter of fact tone and overall non-biased, non-polarizing talking points. Well done and well received!
dudr when a black guy listens to typacally white music like rock or country and drives a lifted truck or has like piercing that are typically like white rock it looks fucking awesome. they kill the style in a good way.
I'm with you Black Dude... I do not buy into the whole pride thing with race... black white gay LGBT, being proud of your sexuality is bull shit.. I would be more interested in being proud of art then what I was born as or into... I would add one thing to this conversation, would I read watch listen to an artist who is racist or bigoted? Well that depends are how those artist spend their money on... If it was a metal rocker and he was a racist ass hole but he spent his money on helping the homeless.. I would by his CD... IF it was a writer who was homophobic and she spent her money are anti LGBTQ, I would not spend a dime on that writers work...
Hey man thanks for speaking out I'm from Texas and a Mexican - American, I've bumped into bigots before though there is no excuse for what he said in perspective people should not open there drunk mouths when they stand on such a gifted platform as him we must all watch what we say because someone will think it's all right to act that way in the south we're really trying to put a stop to it . but again thanks for your voice long live metal!!
This is why I follow this guy. Fucking real honesty about all this "reversed racism" double standards BS. Racism is racism. Let's just make it simple and get on with shit. I too love metal, and I think more black people should get into that shit, it's actually something they helped to create, and it's the perfect music for our time, aggressive, passionate and anti establishment. Black guys in music have been getting way to effeminate lately, bring back the aggressiveness we saw in old school hip hop, but in metal, the most aggressive music in the world. Nothing says "fuck you" more than metal. Nothing scares snowflakes like it either.
It took 20 years for my boys of SEVENDUST to finally get a Grammy nod. Lajon is a fantastic vocalist and Morgan Rose is an absolute EPIC drummer. Good luck guys!!!!
True, the satisfactory feeling of someone expressing genuine thoughts about the metal community and just keeping it real is amazing. The level of critical thinking in this video is higher than most :).
I just watched the video of Phil and i admit it looks very bad but i look at lyrics like this and wonder how this guy could be racist. PANTERA LYRICS "Rise" We've got no time to lose Your news is old news Hate this, hate me, hate this Right approach for the wrong It's time to spread the word Let the voice be heard All of us, one of us, all of us Dominate and take the motherfucking world Mass prediction, unification Breathing life into our lungs EVERY creed and EVERY kind To give us depth for strength Taught when we're young to hate one another It's time to have a new reign of power Make pride universal so no one gives in Turn our backs on those who oppose Then when confronted we ask them the question What's wrong with their mind? What's wrong with your mind? [Chorus] It's time to RISE We've lived with past mistakes And we've lived with our own Forgive, forget forgive Be a man, not a child There are to tears for peace Of the common sympathies Educate, reinstate, educate A thing of past The trouble in the states It's time to rise
+Freedomed to death Not even sure, it may have been a joke like he said but I just don't even know. Look at the lyrics for "No good (attack the radical)"
I'm non religious and I listen to Creed. Just because they're believes are different than mine doesn't mean I despise them with a passion. I like ur vids man. So happy I found you thanks to Repzion
Racism isn't exclusive to the metal community. You can argue that people who are racist will be drawn to the aggressive sound in metal. But people will be drawn to the sound for many different reasons. There's problems that need addressing within every community, great video!
I've been attending metal shows for 15 years and I am always proud to see blacks attending a metal show! I have to ask them who they are there to see and have actually started some good conversations about music. Sometimes they are just there for ass which is always in abundance at concerts so who can blame anyone there.
Completely agree with you 100%
I've been telling people for years that all of this "black/white pride" stuff needs to be abolished.
+Some Black Guy haha Hell Yeah! I was hoping you would. Your vid popped up on my home page :)
lazy troll.
I hope it does
+Some Black Guy
That's what I have to say to/about stupid, bigoted SJW Feminists and their supporters:
plus.google.com/101700419832707251773/posts/LEtuvyLEYNe
plus.google.com/101700419832707251773/posts/X3KyeWsbHC3
plus.google.com/101700419832707251773/posts/UQi682fFex8
plus.google.com/101700419832707251773/posts/c4rqjvuMZBi
plus.google.com/101700419832707251773/posts/EoEK6ciHTEh
plus.google.com/101700419832707251773/posts/EMLsz2kGMQJ
plus.google.com/101700419832707251773/posts/BYxTbJw7Cnq
plus.google.com/101700419832707251773/posts/2HGPUfQ524X
plus.google.com/101700419832707251773/posts/H87h7wTS4CN
plus.google.com/101700419832707251773/posts/QF3c3vSvqAq
plus.google.com/101700419832707251773/posts/2HkxoNTiKRa
+Angel Nightmare
I couldn't agree more with you, and Derrick.
Well, I'm short. Been messed with about it most of my life so I am trying to get a new Short Lives Matter thing going. But it's fallen short.
+Mark Henry Budum pssss
Mark Henry lol
Meta Cooler g
Ramy Sar ?
Meta Cooler typo sorry
LOL "My parents fucked, and now I'm black" hahaha Good stuff man! HUMAN POWER! THAT is the only race that matters!
+Joey Image Which is actually exactly the reason why nationalism or national pride of any kind is plain stupid. "My parents happened to live in country x or y when they fucked." You had no influence on where you were born, so do yourself a favour and burn your flag.
+betyar bob I agree, it really is insanely stupid when you get to the root of it. No one has any control over who they are. You're born the way you are and that's it. You're supposed to be proud of your accomplishments in life, not your genetics or heritage that you had literally 0 control over.
+Kafir
You can move out of your country and get a new nationality. You can be proud about your community and the people in it.
+Joey Image Well, let's consider all sentients beings too ;)
well said, that's the best comment I've ever seen on youtroll I mean TH-cam
While I agree that the whole concept of racial "pride" is totally irrational, I'm not so much inclined to put "Black Pride" in the same category as "White Pride." To me, there's one key difference between them.
White Pride = "WE BELONG ON TOP!"
Black Pride = "WE REFUSE TO BE CONSIGNED TO THE VERY BOTTOM!"
+Guitcad1 nailed it.
+Guitcad1 that's only yours and the KKK's demented translation of what "white pride" would mean . Should there be a slogan for white pride ? not really , but there shouldn't be one for "black pride" either. We should all just take pride in ourselves and our ancestoery with the unnecessary dynamics of calling that shit out to others as through you are some how better than those around you. To me white pride , that's taking pride in being white. is about not feeling some unecessary guilt hanging over my head all day because some white guys 50-400 years ago were dick bags. and if some racist fuck wants to say "but slavery, " well guess what , I never owned a slave I never knew any one that owned a slave, and the first slavers on the planet were the Egyptians, a people that many African Americans love to claim as theirs, so what the fuck ever. P.S. the most enslaved people in today's world are women from the middle east , the far east and western white women , I'm referring to the various global slave trafficking rings , not some retarded first world feminist shit. A lot of these Human traffic runners are not white FYI.
*****
dude, racism isn't over. there's shit going on like dylann roof and mass incarceration. it's in the past but it's in the present too.
Paul Brown
where in my post did I even suggest racism doesn't exist today? don't be a moron and don't put words in my mouth/post I didn't type or say.
*****
you said that white guilt is "unecessary guilt hanging over my head all day because some white guys 50-400 years ago were dick bags."
combine that with no statement about modern-day racism and i'd say that's a fair assumption to make.
The thing I think Robb was trying to articulate in the differences between black pride and white pride is that when black pride became popular in the 1960's its agenda was to give black people equal rights and equal treatment. White white pride or white power it's always been an agenda of the belief that the white race is superior and they deserve privilege because of that. I agree with what you're saying that the belief that any race is superior is stupid. I just want to give you my take on the differences. Great video man. I definitely appreciated hearing your perspective.
Black Pride was more about regaining identity lost for over 400 years due to slavery and nationwide racism. These 'white power' idiots are scared white folk who can't even recall their own ancestry for the most part and thus lash out at people who actually show a connection to their history.
oh shut the fuck up
+Michael Bell Try googling "white pride". You can be proud to be white all you want, but the fact is that the wording "white pride" has other connotations, and you need to be aware of that.
+Erik Sundstrom That's like saying atheism has some bad connotations to it so you need to be aware that just because some people did bad things in the past or placed extra baggage onto this term or phrase that you can expect and must live with an ad hoc bigotry of it. Take your time. Work it out.
+Erik Sundstrom You could say the same thing about black pride. It could be about embracing you're heritage, but it could also have racist meanings. If one is acceptable, then so is the other. Both are stupid anyway because it's taking pride in your skin color, which nobody has any control over or even worked for.
I care. I don't want that from a band I listen to, this hurts. I am Black, and I have been listening to them since the 90s.
ENJ4321: I'm sorry you feel hurt. My advice would be to try to distinguish between the music and the artist.
You don't have to like or agree with the artist on a personal level to enjoy the music. But I understand it can be hard since music you really like tend to feel really, really personal for some reason.
It's kind of what I try to do with the works of my favourite author. I'm a huge fan of Howard Phillips Lovecraft and his short stories (he wrote most of them during the 1920's to the 1930's).
The thing is, he was an academic racist. Not just "every day racist" like being bigoted towards non-whites but he basically believed in all this "racial purity" stuff, and when his stories did include black characters his detailed descriptions of them were usually quite derogatory to say the least.
But I try to keep in mind that his views were not uncommon in the academic world in the U.S back then so I try to disregard his views as a product of the times.
And also, I don't enjoy his short stories for their unflattering descriptions of black people, but for their themes regarding aliens, mystic and powerful divine intelligences, cosmic horrors and stuff like that.
So I can like and enjoy reading Lovecraft without making excuses for his racist views.
Yes, I know. I just have more trouble supporting someone, who would have such thoughts against me...after I supported his art or music. I stopped reading anything of Lovecraft's after I found that out (I also really enjoyed his short stories). I'm even a classically trained violinist, but I can't listen to Wagner(I'm a fan of pro wrestling, and everytime I hear Daniel Bryan's theme song...I think how many people know it's Wagner). Anyway, I would be lying if I said I didn't feel...a little betrayed. I gave money to and my love (fan wise that is) to somebody who was calling me the n word behind my back. I totally understand what you mean by, separate the art from the person. However, it's shocking to know somebody has that kind of thinking...even though he may have those kind of people buying his art. Hell, Paula Deen has great recipes...but it's the principle. Eat awesome gourmet meals, created by someone who hates you...or eat peanut butter and jelly?
ENJ4321: I hear you. But you've got to keep in mind that even artists that we think are great are still just people.
Flawed people, suffering from all manner of ignorance which shapes their views, statements and actions just like... Well pretty much anybody.
It's easy to place people on a pedestahl when they create art that truly impress and speak to you on the individual level. This leads to a line of thought where we inevitably hold them to higher standards than we do with most people. And that's where that sense of betrayal comes from. When they do or say something that disappoints us.
These artists never truly "betrayed" you personally, because they never even met you (in other words, they were ignorant of your existence). If they had, you could've been a very good reason for them to start having difficulties reconciling their views.
Another way I try to see it is that the combination of flaws and genius of the artist inevitably contributed to the results of their art as well.
If they didn't have their flaws, then they might not have created their masterpieces in the first place.
This should be most apparent in the metal scene, since the music, since it's inception has pretty much shone a spotlight on human flaws. "Sex, Drugs and Rock n roll" and all that.
true, indeed. Thanks for replying man. Great points, take care man.
Bro I respect Robb Flynn so much after this video. As a black person who started listening to rock and metal in high school, it was always difficult for me to find out where exactly I "fit in". I didn't fit with the black kids because i "act and talk white" and while I did fit in with the outcasts, losers and freaks, I got seriously harassed during a show by some racist assholes saying I don't belong here. The racism in the community is rampant and so it makes me happy to see such a response from the community saying this can't be tolerated.
+Treythegreat23 Sympathies to you. But don't discard Phil for this. He's behaviour is idiotic, but It's no different than rap-artists (who he obviously dislikes and back in the days we're his inspiration for those "white pride" speeches). The other thing is that he definetly likes the provocative stuff that flirts with extreme taboos, like racism. He liked Carnivore, which was just flatout provocative tongue-in-cheek metal, but Peter Steele was no racist or a anti-semite. He even made an "Der Untermensch"-song with his band and his best friend (who's jewish) was in that band. And Phil was also his friend. Honestly, Phil is a good guy, he's a fool but a good guy. He's associated with many variety of people and ethnicities and one of these was the PKN band consisting of only handicapped people. Also, my comment about metal being white.... Well it kinda is, but It has always been inclusive and it still should be. I'm sorry for the racist metal heads you've encountered and probably will counter. And I say that, not because you're black (and i'm not a sorry-ass-pc-white-bro), but because you're a metalhead.
+Treythegreat23 I don't think anyone should abuse you because you have one skin color or another. Also those "black kids" that said that you were "too white" were only ignorants and had the hateful demeanor specific to kids their age. If I'd see you at a gig getting beaten by anyone , I'd totally jump in with some friends and teach the motherfuckers a lesson about where violence should be placed in metal. And the only place for that is the Moshpit in which I'd gladly throw those idiots. Anyhow dude, don't give up on metal just because there are so many ignorant guys that don't understand it. After all , metal is a genre for the more open minded guys in the world.
+Adrian Z Seeing everyone here defending each other not because of race, but because of our common love of music, is very warming to me. Right now, it gives me hope that perhaps we're not too far off after all. I guess we'll all just have to wait and see...together. Stay metal, guys. \m/
ChidoriSnake I'd really love to see the metal community welcoming anyone that has a taste in it's music. Also we should keep our heads open to new sounds and to new ideas, so we don't end up like those stuck-up mainstream(and only that) music listeners. The gift of music it's an amazing one and we should share it like brothers.
Also , nice cosplay , I'm a naruto fan too. Even though the last season of shippuden was a bit too long and it lost it's consistency.
+Treythegreat23 Bless you my friend ;) I believe in what your saying and I know it's exactly where the hearts of people like Rob who would speak up are at right now!
(Ethnic minority) Pride is not about boasting about the prowess of your racial background and its superiority over others. It is a response to institutionalized discrimination that has occurred in this land since - and before - its inception. Throughout the history of American soctiety, non-whites have been made to feel inferior to their white counterparts. "Pride" in your ethnicity is a response to that.
When they have Gay Pride parades, it's not because they think their sexuality makes them better than straight people. It's simply a way for a community that has historically been on the receiving end of oppression to come together and refuse to accept anything less than being equals in society.
+leatherwings007 Well said, friend.
+leatherwings007
Pride "signalling" is practically always done as a way to effectively increase the perception of closeness and community within a certain group. On one hand this reinforces the people pertaining to such community and validates them, on the other, it also often serves to increase the perception of divergence between the people belonging to that group and outsiders, on both sides of the figurative fence.
Ultimately its hard not to see pride "signalling" and its effects as a double-edged sword, reinforcing some people's opposition to the group as a whole, and driving some within said group to consider that they *are* better than other people in some degree, way, shape or form. And yes, that happens in LGBT groups and ethnic communities as well.
Personally, while I can see its strengths when wielded by systematically disadvantaged and marginalized communities, I think its important to recognize it as something with limited utility and worth phasing out in favor of the understanding that you should be happy and at peace with elements of your person you have no control over.
+Andrew Nihil I mostly agree with this thread. I can't speak on the race discussion but I can explain my personal experiences with being Lgbt.
We all know even in Western society people get disowned by their own family for being Lgbt - even though the legalisation in many places has changed. Even in the UK legal system there is lots of discrepancies, especially when it comes to Trans rights, even in Western Europe - where we are considered more 'liberal'. I think that's mostly because religion doesn't dictate as much what is socially acceptable.
I have Eastern European friends who want to seek citizenship/asylum in the UK, because their hormone treatment will be stopped in their home country, or they genuinely believe they can't have a future with their partner or feel safe when they go back.
Gay pride doesn't just serve as a way of uniting people against 'oppression' per say, it reminds people they aren't alone, and the only person going through those experiences. It gives people others to talk to. Personally I think it can be a little 'overtly sexual' sometimes but I understand it's history and why it is so 'out there'.
Also another point of view, , from a dating point of view too, I know it sounds a little silly.
If you walk into a room, you can see someone's skin colour, you can't see someone's sexuality, per say , you can make assumptions based on their behaviour or the way they dress but that's about it. It can leave you feeling really alone, unless you meet someone who is very 'out' or screams stereotype. Sure this has its benefits in dangerous situations (unless you look like a walking stereotype) , but not when it comes to dating anyway.
You go to a Gay Pride meet and people are able to express themselves. Kiss, hold hands, because they feel safe to do so. Because for they don't feel so isolated as much as a minority or as intimidated. It also gives you hope if you see another same-sex couple together, that can be done.
That's the vibe I get anyway.
Does Black Pride have the same purpose and affect, or is it more a reminder of the heritage and the past battles?
I'm just wondering, because people often draw parallels between the two.
Emm Rouse
I feel like there's been some confusion here. I cannot speak from the viewpoint of an ethnic minority as I am not, and I feel like I can barely speak for that of other LGBT people as I've barely been involved in my local community myself.
My consideration and displicence is not regarding what each group purportedly wishes to promote, celebrate, affirm or otherwise give visibility to.
Its more to do with how claiming "pride" in a innate or invariable characteristic reinforces group identification through them, a type of identification that is by nature rigid and excludes others based on distinctions they've never had any power over.
Purely because of how human minds work regarding groups, putting such onus on these distinct and inmutable characteristics creates divides between people, making some within the group disparage those who don't belong in it and adscribe negative connotations to them, and making some outsiders reactionary and likewise disparage those within the group.
That's not to say that LGBT-pride parades and other displays and demonstrations don't have their good and their usefulness.
Regarding pride parades in particular, yes, certainly there's lots of people who still take them as ways to socialize and network, though nowadays, with the internet (and apps like Grindr) and increasing acceptance in the west, I do get the impression that they are nowhere as important as they once were in that respect.
But even these days, there's people within LGBT communities who aren't quite comfortable or happy with some aspects of pride parades (mostly the explicit sexualizing and feitshizing going on in some of them), and the impressions they can give to outsiders.
Personally, while I understand that point, I don't give much of a damn about that, I merely have it in mind that pride parading should probably not be our "end-game", so to speak, and really not for anyone for that matter.
That's a lot of writing, hope it was clarifying to some extent at least.
Ps. Hope for the best for your easterner friends.
+Andrew Nihil Yes I see exactly what you mean. Although it could be argued due to the A /ally element involved in pride parades, no one is specifically excluded. Though I get the impression people feel they are slightly out of place.
Also thank you. I hope so too.
So I watched a bunch of your videos now and I'm just gonna take this opportunity to say you're a really swell guy :D Keep rockin dude \m/
FYI.. I'm not into metal, but I undertand your passion..and that you're able to seperate the music from the creator. Yes, you can cry "racist" or "bigot" ..when it applies..and it looks like it applies.
I'm gay and I have trouble shouting in public: "Gay Pride".. I half understand the reaosning behind it 30 years ago.. I don't see the need for it today.
Rock on
I agree we no longer need it in our community, marriage equality is a reality, bigotry still exists and it will always exist, the only thing we need to do now is focus on legislation to get big money out of politics so we can make this country truly great again, and sadly Trump is part of that rich vs poor war that's going on he's on the wrong side, but I'm more interested in congress and getting money and favors out of that shitshow, that's what pride should be supporting right now, everything else will fall into place for our community if money were taken from the politicians and placed in the hands of the people.
@Brett Spencer I don't think that's how the LGBT uses the word pride, it's more about the pride of having overcome the issues they face as a community
The difference between the whole white power vs black power thing is there is something to have pride in being black, according to those I have talked to who identify with that slogan.
While you may have had it pretty good, I know countless black people where I'm from who do not. And that is today, and people who are from this new generation. Not baby boomers or even Gen X's.
While I am not saying that black power has not been used once for violent/destructive effect, it has roots in the fact that black people ARE oppressed a grand majority of the time, and is a slogan of empowerment within those circumstances. 99.5% of the time, it is something said to encourage peaceful resistance against racial discrimination, not something that is said to entice violence or hatred, as saying the white version of it is.
That's what Robb Flynn was trying to say, and it is a statement based on fact, not opinion. I have talked to several Black Panther members myself, and they have been nothing but kind and straight forward with me, and I have even invited me to sit in on their meetings at my local college. They do not preach hatred against whites, they preach empowerment of those who are oppressed. Of course there are a minority who take it all too far and turn the black power thing into something destructive, but that is a ridiculously small minority compared to literally all of the white supremacists who undeniable ARE trying to be dick heads.
I respect your perspective, and I'm not saying you should kiss Flynn's ass about this. You have your own experiences and your own point of view. But calling Robb Flynn stupid for doing something as kindhearted and truth based as what he did was a bit uncalled for. I don't even like Machinehead really, or even metal all that much to be honest. But I don't think you should have really shit on his move to make improvements to the music genre as a whole when it comes to accepting different people.
A lot of this video is just gonna be pointed out by those Phil Anselmo fans, who will pick out a single person's experience, to discredit the experiences of countless others. I think your perspective of the black power thing is much too exclusive to your own personal experiences, and doesn't account for the countless experiences of countless others.
+Soup the Eternal There are differences between black pride and white pride as you say, but they are both racist. There are rational political reasons to come together with people of your own race if and to the extent that you're all persecuted on the same basis. Then it isn't race itself around which you rally and unify, but merely that you as individuals are spurred by similar circumstances to respond to the same problem. For such a political movement, racial pride, no matter the colour, should not be the rallying call. It should be "racism is ignorant" or "we're not going to take it anymore," not "we fight together because we are the same race, and our race is the best!" And no, saying that you're proud to be black is not the rational response to being told you should be ashamed of being black, it is simply a knee-jerk reaction. The rational response is to say that your race is IRRELEVANT to your pride.
Travis Gooden It's not like I'm saying black people should feel bad about themselves, much less that they don't have a "right" to feel good about themselves. You're twisting my words so badly, I don't know why you can't just deal with the reality of what I actually said, which is simply that race doesn't matter, and you're an individual and you don't owe allegiance to people of similar racial background. It isn't necessary in order to feel good about yourself as an individual for who and what you are and what you've accomplished and will accomplish in your life, to say that you're proud to be part of a group of people who look similar and have nothing else in common with you. I mean at least homosexuality is a concrete behavioral difference, not like race. And like I said, you SHOULD get together with other people who relate to your persecution, IF you're persecuted, and people of various persuasions who want what's right for you even if it doesn't directly effect them (white people who oppose racism, like myself), but if you're united by personal experiences and by ideological agendas, then that's DIFFERENT than just being part of the same race, which by itself is totally meaningless.
eggory First off homosexuality is exactly like race. It isnt a choice just like how race isnt. But second of all race is not meaningless lol maybe to you it is but to a vast majority of the world it isnt. Sure on a biological scientific scale it is meaningless which is the way I think you are approaching this. But on a cultural level it is very important. People look at you and treat you differently based on your race. Then of course it is not necessary but dude it helps. That is why there are all this sub division because of underrepresentation. Because people do not get accepted or represented. Thats why it is all there. On a cultural level people stand together and feel empathy for one another based on race and based on many other things but race is one of them. I and I feel like many would agree with me that, that is a fact. You can not just ignre race because it has not been ignored throughout history. On a scientifc level race does not matter. In a perfect world yes race would not matter but we are not in that perfect world. In this world it does and in this world I feel like a vast majority feels that way I get what youre saying but it does matter
eggory
except nothing you have said is actually factual. And the pride in being black stems from overcoming oppression due directly to the color of skin. I even made mention of this lol.
+Travis Gooden homosexuality is a choice
I disapproved of Phil's bull shit and didn't like what Rob had to say either. Thank you for putting forth some views on equality.
im a life time Pantera, Down, etc fan... what Phil said is bullshit... people have said to me "why do you like Pantera? dont u know their racist..." to which i replied " none of their songs are that i can tell and I've never seen anything to proove racism..." well now I have... RIP Dimebag. and big ups to Rob for having the balls to bring this up. Just saw Machinehead for the firat time [finally] back in November and it was fucking amazing! wont miss em again. man did they rip LIVE. Long live Metal, down with racist BS!
first time
+undead797 aaaahahhahhahahahaa
+undead797 omg! i was just trying to be real and call shit like i see it! ahahahaahhahhhaaa. Super Saiyan dick... good one! haha.
+whosgotthefyah I seen MH three times back in the nineties: once with Fear Factory, at the first Ozzfest, finally with Slayer and Biohazard.
Dime and Vinnie were the core of that band, and thankfullly not Phil.
The only race that matters is Human Race
Fuck the human race, humans suck!
that's pretty brutal
I agree... Phil Anselmo couldn;t yelled human power& this firestorm wouldn;t have started
Racist. How dare you say dogs and cats don't matter.
I mean, what's the point of the internet without them? What am I going to do? Just watch videos of people? That's no way to live!
we are a species without races
Man, you're more wise than most of thepeople I know. Sorry I am not English.,but I udnerstand it mostly.
I don't think Rob was off base. He did say he was giving a history lesson.
+a.fro80y
But the present isn't a part of that history, and therefore that history is irrelevant.
+a.fro80y History is good for reverence, but acting like history should be applied now is what the problem is. Yeah white people owned slaves 160 years ago, what the fuck does that have to do with my lily white ass now? Yeah, the Japanese bombed Peral Harbor 75 years ago, what the fuck does it have to do with modern day Japan? And yes 200 years ago Mexico tried to take over Texas and even went to war with America, but what the fuck does that have to do with modern day Mexians?
*****
Yeah no shit racism and discrimination still exists, stop the fucking presses.
Last I checked the Japanese and Americans love each other (just look at Otaku for proof of that), I grew up in Texas so I can safely say Mexican Americans and legal immigrates get along pretty well with us there in the Lone Star State as well as the rest of the south. And last I checked the only people who want colored folk places are the racist regressive SJWs and BLM. So really no problems in sight from were we Southerns are looking.
And before you go off on some tirade about my white vantage point I'd like to point out I live near and went to college in Savannah Georgia, we have a pretty even split of blank and white with a note worthy Indian population and we tend to get along pretty well here.
*****
>an affect
You filthy pleb.
*****
You have thus far given me what is, but you have failed to make a connection between what is and what ought to be.
God Forbid's Gone Forever is one of the best metal albums of all time.
+Fleck I'm into metal since 1989 and I know all the best metal albums of all time... , how come I never heard of God Forbid's Gone Forever?
Ash Williams Well they weren't a very popular band. I was lucky enough to see them open for LoG/SFU in 02 and experience the awesome. I don't wanna ruffle any feathers but I think they didn't get as popular as they should have because 4 of the 5 members were black.
+Fleck there's a ton of metal bands that dont get popular, regardless of their skin color. btw i got their song "end of the world" a looong time ago, very good!
+Freedish911 Not many AMAZING metal bands with EPIC albums don't get popular.
+Ash Williams Because you're just some random dude, and there's an entire universe of shit you've never come across, let alone heard of?
Everyone should be proud of who they are and where they came from. I'm proud of my European heritage, you should be proud of your African heritage. It's not personal pride, but the sort of pride you might have in your kid or best friend who stood up to a bully or accomplished something great. Or in your grandfather who fought in WWII. It's pride in the sense that you're part of something great; being part of a particular bloodline, being made of the very same DNA as the vikings who explored North America for the first time hundreds of years ago. It gives me motivation to live up to my ancestors and make something of myself, continuing on the tradition of cultural progress. However, at no point does this necessitate looking down on or even hating others who are unlike me. Every culture has both light and dark spots in their history.
I totally agree. I'm proud of my Norwegian heritage but they also did a lot of raping and pillaging. I'm also proud of my German heritage but you know the whole two world wars so yeah. There is no race, culture, or religion that doesn't have some horrible crap in their past.
Big Up for using a George Carlin quote.
+RoyalWulffDry I was going to leave a similar comment but you beat me too it!
TheSaferHouse
Right on, Carlin and few other long dead "comedians" had common sense and logic by the ton. Which is too bad, as it seems these days, common sense and logic are so rare, its like they are Super Powers or some shit....
+RoyalWulffDry Nice
+RoyalWulffDry Could you specify which quote was it? I think I missed that.
+Gorgo Tz These 2 cover it.
I could never understand ethnic or
national pride. Because to me, pride should be reserved for something
you achieve or attain on your own, not something that happens by
accident of birth. Being Irish isn't a skill, it’s a fucking genetic
accident. You wouldn't say “I’m proud to be 5’11”. I’m proud to have a
predisposition for colon cancer.” So why the fuck would you be proud to
be Irish, or proud to be Italian, or American or anything
----------------------------------------------------------------------
First of all, I say "black." I say "black" because most people prefer
"black." I don't say "people of color." People of color sounds like
something you see when you're on mushrooms. Besides, the use of people
of color is dishonest. It means precisely the same as colored people.
If you're not willing to say "colored people," you shouldn't be saying
"people of color."
Besides, the whole idea of color is bullshit anyway. What should we call
white people? "People of no color"? Isn't pink a color? In fact, white
people are not really white at all, they're different shades of pink,
olive, and beige. In other words, they're colored. And black people are
rarely black. I see mostly different shades of brown and tan. In fact, some
light-skinned black people are lighter than the darkest white people. Look
how dark the people in India are. They're dark brown, but they're
considered white people. What's going on here? May I see the color chart?
"People of color" is an awkward, bullshit, liberal-guilt phrase that
obscures meaning rather than enhancing it. Shall we call fat people, "people
of size"?
I also don't say "African-American." I find it completely illogical, and
furthermore it's confusing. Which part of Africa are we talking about? What
about Egypt? Egypt is in Africa. Egyptians aren't black. They're like
the people in India, they're dark brown white people. But they're
Africans. So why wouldn't an Egyptian who becomes a U.S. citizen be an
African-American?
The same thing goes for the Republic of South Africa. Suppose a white
racist from South Africa becomes an American citizen? Well, first of all
he'd find plenty of company, but couldn't he also be called an
African-American? It seems to me that a racist white South African guy could
come here and call himself African-American just to piss off
black people. And, by the way, what about a black person born in South
Africa who moves here and becomes a citizen? What is he? An African-South
African-American? Or a South African-African-American?
All right, back to this hemisphere. How about a black woman who is a
citizen of Jamaica? According to P.C. doctrine, she's an African-American,
right? But if she becomes a U.S. citizen, she's Jamaican-American. And
yet if one of these language crusaders saw her on the street, he'd think she
was an African-American. ... It's just so much liberal bullshit.
Labels divide people. We need fewer labels, not more.
I've listened to Pantera since the early 90s and yeah, Phil has always had problems like booze and drugs or whatever, but i never noticed anything racist about him or the music. There are several vids about this so apparently it's true but i'm kind of surprised by it.
Same here.
i
I do the salute all of the time and really dumb racist jokes, and im black... So... Just thought i would point that out.
N3rdSci3nc3 you sir are a contradiction but also taking the power away from it. right on man.
indeed. when i see a black guy listening to country music or rock and get out of a lifted truck im like fuck yes. so badass. it throws me off still but fucking ay you guys pull it off well.
Context means EVERYTHING!!! People tend to forget that!!!
I grew up around black guys like that...LOL!!! So, it really doesn't shock me at all. It just shows that Culture matters more than skin color!!!
Ave Caesar
just because you havent dealt with direct discrimination does not mean others haven't keep that in mind
Pride is the most horrible thing, it does not keep you warm at night, does not fill your stomach when hungry, does not shade you from the heat, does not cover you from the rain, all it does is keep you from what you need to survive.
Its good to be proud of your heritage maybe not your skin color. Color doesn't matter.
Skin color doesn't have shit to do with it, for anyone. Even actual racists don't care about the color of anyone's skin. It's about the way certain groups tend to behave.
I've been into metal for a while and actually had no idea Phil was throwing up white power signs. Pantera is of course a classic band of American metal, but I've definitely been more on the side of the more contemporary bands in the genre. So apparently he apologized for the most recent incident but there was some some controversy apparently in 1995 where he was associated with white pride or something. Yeah, he's probably racist. No, you're not a SJW for calling him out on it. He should be called out on it. Totally reasonable. And yeah some people are like that and will continue to be like that. I think he knows that his beliefs are unacceptable and I'm sure he knows he's in the wrong. And like SBG was saying, he mostly keeps it to himself. So what do you you do? I think you just sort of break your silence and say, "Hey, Phil - STFU, stop being a racist prick" and move on. If it continues to be a problem, just let him alienate himself and don't support anything he's a part of.
Many fine artistic works were done by really shitty people. It's just important to make a distinction between the art and the artist.
"I don't need to be proud of the color of my skin because I was never taught to be ashamed of it."
-White Guy
You said yourself that you've never experienced racism. So, from other people's perspectives, black pride might actually matter.
Just food for thought from another perspective.
When you were talking about Howard Jones, I immediately thought of the 80's pop singer. Nearly shit myself laughing of the thought of him yelling 'BLACK PRIDE.'
+Alex Becker Damn there's only a few of us people here who know who 80s Howard Jones was!
Your mind set is so elevated and it makes your videos fun to watch
dimebag and Vinnie Paul are the ones that made pantera what it was, not Phil
+Euphoric Onion sorry, don't have any spare change
Silly abstract conjectures. Music bands are a composite, like a car, an airplane, etc. they are what they because of a composition of many things. If you take out the engine, you have no car. If you put a Ferrari engine in an old Lada (shitty Russian car) you won't have a supercar. The lead singer is the most important factor in the majority of bands. Even though many bands are actually created and run by other musicians or even people outside of the band, the singer is still "the front man". That's not "my opinion", that's just how the world is, and you know it.
Harry H HIGHLY disagree. Pantera was greater than the sum of it's parts. Without Phil Pantera was nothing. Without Vinnie and Dime, Pantera was nothing. Phil is a great talent, but a shit human.
What nonsense. Pantera was much better than anything any of them did after.
Interesting take.
An argument I can't stand is the "Well, why can't WE be shitty, cause THOSE GUYS are shitty too" rationalization.
One of the commenters below asks, "What about racism in rap music?"
Yeah. What about it?
The notion that Anselmo should be excused because Professor Griff or whoever is also a racist is absurd on the face of it.
+Dirty Swagger Although I think a part of what makes the "what about rap" question significant is that it is seldom acknowledged, only when white rappers come to prominence is racism ever seriously discussed.
The universal shitting on Iggy Azalea for example. It would be much less toxic IMO if she was black and probably non existent if American.
Ultimately though, I agree completely with you and Some Black Guy's point.
I am an advocate of NON-VIOLENT free speech. In other words, I would use the 2nd Amendment to protect anyone's 1st Amendment, even if I didn't agree with them; I believe one is able to do, and say, what they want as long as that action is not physically harassing or antagonizing anyone. If what the guy said is true, and they want to do it in their little collective circles, so be it.
If it is okay to have some 'Black Power' concert in the middle of the Superbowl, I believe it should be okay to have a 'White Power' concert in the middle of where ever. And, to be frank, it really isn't 'racist' until we start thinking one race is superior to another.
Of all the things we can change in life, race/ethnicity is not one of them. The more tolerant we become about racial language, the more tolerant we become as a culture. Pretty simple.
Phil can say what he want, but freedom of speech does not grant you freedom from criticism.
I have never liked Phil and his views, but at the end of the day it's important to be able to separate the artist from the art. I still enjoy Pantera, not matter what spews from his mouth.
I 100% agree, except that I don't actually like Pantera so I don't enjoy them, lol. But yeah, the separating artist from art is a great point. Unless it becomes a part of the art, it's pretty trivial. Like with Ozzy actually being a pretty devout Christian. His music doesn't really reflect it, so I still enjoy his music, mostly. Beck is a bat shit crazy Scientologist, but I still like his music. Billy Corgan has become a Trump supporting ultra conservative but I still nearly blow my speakers when a Smashing Pumpkins song comes on. Unless Ozzy starts heavily preaching Jesus through his music, Beck starts preaching crazy ass aliens starting life on Earth bullshit in his or Billy preaching putting up a wall along our border in his, their beliefs are very trivial to their music.
We all have the right to say whatever we want, but I still think Phil was in the wrong. He can have those opinions but its a "know your audience" kind of thing. When he gave the Nazi salute and screamed "white power" he essentially told everyone in the audience who probably loved the show and had a great time but are any race other than white the he hates them. Again, he can say whatever he wants, but there comes a certain level of responsibility when you are a prominent member of any community, especially if you are literally standing in front of that community.
RobertSchmidt
I totally agree man. It makes a big difference when you're on a stage and all that. If he said it out of the limelight, it would have made a huge difference (in that this whole thing wouldn't have happened).
On the other side of things, what did anyone really get out of complaining about it? We've all forgotten about this whole thing now, which shows how some people care so much about Phil's actions one day but forget about it the next. So really, we're all in the wrong here!
Sjw
Brandon Holtzclaw lol you can't even make an argument
I knew there was something great about you when you were talking..... and then when you mentioned George Carlin, I knew why!
Subscribed :)
If you told me Denzel Washington hated white people or the same for Samuel L Jackson or Danny Glover even Eddie Murphy I would still love their work and everything they did
there is pride in heritage which is way different than pride in skin color , I believe there's a difference a very big difference between the two
What is the point in being prideful about either being oppressed, being an oppressor, or otherwise being inconsequential? The past of most lineages has a lot of suckage either way.
Some Black Guy. Your Videos kick ass ..Keep on Keeping on
I'm half Black and white. I love metal music. I'm glad you spoke out on this man we don't need to emphasize our color to be proud to be a human or be negative to other people. I am glad people are finally calling this dude out on what he seems to do every show he is at. So good for Rob and good for you dude you have my respect on speaking about this stuff
Good one mentioning George Carlin (RIP).
You know how they say: Love the art, hate the artist.
been loving all your videos
I'm a Bernie Sanders suppoter. I'm pro civial righs. And I'm a Pantera fan. How? Because you can't combine all of the band members into one politcal view.
What about Lostprophets?
You do know that socialism, communism are anti human rights. Right?
A Sanders supporter? We are sorry for your head injury.
I love Bernie because in his socialist utopia money grows on trees!
Cool Batman Beyond Sweatshirt.
Phil is a contradictory person, but he's not racist.
Totally agree with you man!
.You'r the first US legit black guy that i ever hear that speaks about this issue without any taboos or any kind of complex
I can't get it this whole thing about racism,specially in Usa
,bcz in the rest of the world there is not such perspective.
btw check my channel
WhiteNeckMedia WTF??? No such thing as racism in the rest of the world? Are you nuts???
I lived in Germany for 10 years, and Germans are still waaaayyyyy more racist than any American! They DESPISE Russians, Turks, and Jews still!
Racism isn't only about skin color. It's about other races of people! And the rest of the world is FULL of racism!
I really don't think it's an SJW thing to call out someone who is obviously a racist. Phil is a dick aside from the racist thing but I still listen to Pantera occasionally. Also, I know both conservative racists and open minded leftists that are into metal...liking the music has nothing to do with your politics or feelings about other races.
I just watched one of your other videos for the first time and I had a feeling you were a metal fan. Good deal, subscribed.
it may be grand standing or something like that but generally when i find out a band member or a whole musical group is into some racist shit or has bigoted beliefs i stop listening to them, i guess on principle. I feel that I don't listen to them or buy their music that's less support i'm giving them. if the band gets rid of the f'd up member then sure i'll listen to them again. Am i a baby for doingthing/acting like that? You can call me what ever you want but that's what i believe. It's like when i found out Frank Sinatra was an asshole. yeah he's not making money anymore it but when ever i hear his voice i think of the accounts of women saying he abused them. Sometime i can separate the artist from their misdeeds other times i cannot.
Pantera is still better than machine head despite phil.
Phil is literal ass cancer.
@@mclovin2155 He said Pantera not Phil.
I'm an old 80's and 90's speed metal head . I'm almost 49 now and listen to other things too but I still love Slayer , Overkill , Vio-Lence , Destruction , Celtic Frost , Candle Mass , Merciful Fate , ect . Cool to know your a fan :-)
Had to stop it at 1:25 . Wait, so people are being silent about Phil's supposed racism. What about the racist rap songs, against whites by black men? Is there not a lot of silence from the black community in not calling that kind of crap out? Because you and I both know, that kind of thing is MUCH MORE prevalent in rap than it is in metal.
What about blacks not ever calling out these BlackLivesMatter folks and all of the hatred they spew? I never see black folks demonstrating against black lives matter.
It's a two way street buddy.
+Illumirage You shouldn't have stopped at 1:25 then you heard this gentleman talk about it.
WAKE ME UP CANT WAKE UP
It has everything to do with it. If you watched the video, and stopped at 1:25, you'd understand I'm rebuking what he just said. Although you're too tunnel visioned to understand that I suppose.
+Illumirage Can you name some racist hip hop songs in recent memory?
Odacchi
Ice Cube, Public Enemy, Brother Ali. There are others.
Many won't say racist things plain as day, but veiled threats are there.
I could up the ante quite a bit if I wanted to and say most rappers are racist if I wanted to include all of the rappers who continually rail against 'the system'. The system or some other similar permutation of that concept, just different wording. The system being code for white hegemony. Or in their eyes, a white patriarchal system of oppression. A white system of jurisprudence that holds down the black man. The police could also just as easily be read as the greater white population as well. Because as we all know, music is open to interpretation.
I can't tell you how many rappers I've listened to that subtly or overtly make reference to these themes.
+Illumirage so what? this is how it works team or something listen i am black and i don't like rap so don't address me with shit those fucking thugs do ok ? rap born in this hood/thug neighborhood and yes it got alot of that but what do you expect of someone that uses "nigga" as a coma ? just don't address all blacks like me responsible for the shit they say the same way i won't blame you the racist slurs many country songs say as a black british guy a totally despise the word nigga
I'm from Fort Worth, Texas, the birthplace of Pantera. I love them, but it's common knowledge that Phil is a racist. I don't respect it. Plus he's garbage to fans. But aside from that, I love Pantera. Met Vinnie Paul a couple times. Nice guy. Dime passed away the night before my 20th birthday. I was crushed that night. Pantera, even with Phil's rhetoric is in my blood.
I have enjoyed every video of yours that I've watched without exception. I appreciate your fairness, objectivity, and intellect. I wish you success.
don't really listen to metal much anymore. prefer old school 2 tone ska music thesedays
The idea that oppression of minorities or racism is in the past is a fatal flaw with modern conversations about racism. If you haven't been discriminated against, you are either ridiculously lucky, don't live in the US, or are oblivious
I agree that having pride in something you inherited is ridiculous.
I'm just not able to distinguish music from the person that makes it... I just can't.
+wahwah1013
Then you must be a liberal.
+Illumirage And you're a racist waste of an orgasm. Oh well, it's not like you have the ability be more in life.
*****
How am I any of that? You've never even met, seen, or talked to me. Pretty bold assumption on your part there champ.
+wahwah1013 I'm a commie and a fan of black metal, so i don't really have a choice.
*****
Who are you talking to?
I'm a metal head but gotta be honest....never dug Pantera. Just meh to me. I dont like King Diamond while i'm at it.
You've hit the nail on the head. The whole thing about the pride, people should take pride in their own personal achievements rather than trying to take pride in something they were born with.
I love Pantera in spite of Phil. He's always been a douchebag esp when it came to Dimebag.
If BP is ok what is wrong with WP?
+Techroach Did you guys watch either video?
+shred fred are you stupid he said BP and WP is stupid how does he have double standards ?
+Sick k.l (homothug) sorry I did not make it clear enough for you. I was just making a statement in General. I dont care if either race says they have "power"
lol
+Hesusio lmao
I really appreciate your videos
Great video man. I agree let's keep all this nonsense neo-nazi BLM whatever issues away from metal. Saint Rob and meathead Phil should just focus making kick-ass music. Rob should seriously get over this and not make his lame white guilt songs.
this video is how I discovered you man, you're a great creator.
I absolutely love your content man. I commented on another vid, but I thought it should be said again.
You took all of the words out of my mouth, I think the only pride that should exist personally would be in our selves of who we are.
This is something that we will never get a break from ! It just eats me alive sometimes thinking about it !
My favourite music band is Amorphis, they are from Finland and songs are in English, they have songs of different sub-genre of metal. I recommend it to everyone. They are great
I'm a Metalhead myself and I think that you should just listen to the music regardless of what the band members stand for. Just keep your eyes open to their human side because we aren't perfect and you like the music keep listening to it, just remember that aren't realy the best people arround (if they aren't indeed good people)
Your subs keep going up everyday. Way to go! Good content.
Glad I stumbled across your channel, sir. Intelligent and thought-provoking stuff.
I agree completely. I was shocked when the frontman for Lost Prophets was outed as a pedophile. In fact, I learned about it in the most awkward situation possible. I worked at a Hastings store and was running the Lifestyles department (basically everything that isn't movies or books). So I had control over the music on my shift. So I put in Start Something, and the manager from video basically ran up to me and started yelling at me for playing the music of a pedophile. For a few days, I didn't play it again, but ultimately I came to the conclusion that it didn't matter to me.
I played the band for their music and what it meant to me as one of the bands that helped me through middle school and early high school. You bet your ass that I will never deny, dissemble, or defend Ian, but that won't change my love of the band and the anger I feel on behalf of the other members that will forever be associated with that nutjob because of their working relationship.
Also metal has its racist minority, but it's the exception, not the rule. Any music genre and it's fans are simply a reflection of the society they are part of. The great thing about metal is it doesn't matter what your political views, religion or ethnicity is, there is metal out there that takes those things to an extreme. Most metal is about the music, but many subgenres are very political or religious, you have left and right wing, Christian, Satanic, occult shit, paganism, and all that shit. But most big bands are not about that shit. Metal is a conduit for your most extreme emotions, It is so extreme that the fans and the artists don't have to be. They let all their madness out through the music and are generally very easy going as a result. Metal is a positive thing that gets misunderstood to be negative. Some of the nicest people I know are onto metal.
Good vid bro
That was brilliant, mate.
I'm so glad I found you on the TH-cams. You are extremely intelligent and your arguments are rational and reasonable. I also appreciate your sense of humor. "My parents fucked, and now I'm black" is gold. Please keep doing what you're doing!
kid your awesome I'm glad there are people in this world that think like you do. good job
Right with you there. No one should be ashamed of their skin colour. But it's not something to announce that you're proud of, the way you can be proud of an achievement.
I'm new to your channel and from what I've seen I just want to take a minute and commend you on your overall view point. I appreciate your matter of fact tone and overall non-biased, non-polarizing talking points. Well done and well received!
Fuck yeah man you hit this shit right on the goddamn head! HUMAN POWER!!
dudr when a black guy listens to typacally white music like rock or country and drives a lifted truck or has like piercing that are typically like white rock it looks fucking awesome. they kill the style in a good way.
Lots of love. This video is 100x smarter than Phil will ever be.
Great, great video. This is the best response to all of this that I have heard. This made me subscribe.
I really like this video because it sounds like Derrick is talking from his own experience on his former band
I'm with you Black Dude... I do not buy into the whole pride thing with race... black white gay LGBT, being proud of your sexuality is bull shit.. I would be more interested in being proud of art then what I was born as or into... I would add one thing to this conversation, would I read watch listen to an artist who is racist or bigoted? Well that depends are how those artist spend their money on... If it was a metal rocker and he was a racist ass hole but he spent his money on helping the homeless.. I would by his CD... IF it was a writer who was homophobic and she spent her money are anti LGBTQ, I would not spend a dime on that writers work...
Oh how I wish MetalSucks would post this.
"My parents fucked, and now I'm Black" Hilarious.
Hey man thanks for speaking out I'm from Texas and a Mexican - American, I've bumped into bigots before though there is no excuse for what he said in perspective people should not open there drunk mouths when they stand on such a gifted platform as him we must all watch what we say because someone will think it's all right to act that way in the south we're really trying to put a stop to it . but again thanks for your voice long live metal!!
This is why I follow this guy. Fucking real honesty about all this "reversed racism" double standards BS. Racism is racism. Let's just make it simple and get on with shit. I too love metal, and I think more black people should get into that shit, it's actually something they helped to create, and it's the perfect music for our time, aggressive, passionate and anti establishment. Black guys in music have been getting way to effeminate lately, bring back the aggressiveness we saw in old school hip hop, but in metal, the most aggressive music in the world. Nothing says "fuck you" more than metal. Nothing scares snowflakes like it either.
100% Agree. This video perfectly spelled out what was right AND wrong with the Machinehead guy's video.
It took 20 years for my boys of SEVENDUST to finally get a Grammy nod. Lajon is a fantastic vocalist and Morgan Rose is an absolute EPIC drummer. Good luck guys!!!!
True, the satisfactory feeling of someone expressing genuine thoughts about the metal community and just keeping it real is amazing. The level of critical thinking in this video is higher than most :).
I just watched the video of Phil and i admit it looks very bad but i look at lyrics like this and wonder how this guy could be racist.
PANTERA LYRICS
"Rise"
We've got no time to lose
Your news is old news
Hate this, hate me, hate this
Right approach for the wrong
It's time to spread the word
Let the voice be heard
All of us, one of us, all of us
Dominate and take the motherfucking world
Mass prediction, unification
Breathing life into our lungs
EVERY creed and EVERY kind
To give us depth for strength
Taught when we're young to hate one another
It's time to have a new reign of power
Make pride universal so no one gives in
Turn our backs on those who oppose
Then when confronted we ask them the question
What's wrong with their mind?
What's wrong with your mind?
[Chorus]
It's time to RISE
We've lived with past mistakes
And we've lived with our own
Forgive, forget forgive
Be a man, not a child
There are to tears for peace
Of the common sympathies
Educate, reinstate, educate
A thing of past
The trouble in the states
It's time to rise
+Freedomed to death Not even sure, it may have been a joke like he said but I just don't even know. Look at the lyrics for "No good (attack the radical)"
Great video. I'm a metal head and it's great to hear a intelligent man talk about these issues coherently. Keep up the good work.
I'm non religious and I listen to Creed. Just because they're believes are different than mine doesn't mean I despise them with a passion.
I like ur vids man. So happy I found you thanks to Repzion
A+++ as usual. Equality means just that. We are all equal. Nobody is better than anybody else. Be "proud" of something you accomplish.
Holy shit, dude. Well said. Articulate and well-thought-out. Kudos.
the band is called Barely Alive I have 2 edits I did for them on my channel
@Some Black Guy ..... Don't ever doubt that you are changing the world. You are.
Racism isn't exclusive to the metal community. You can argue that people who are racist will be drawn to the aggressive sound in metal. But people will be drawn to the sound for many different reasons. There's problems that need addressing within every community, great video!
I've been attending metal shows for 15 years and I am always proud to see blacks attending a metal show! I have to ask them who they are there to see and have actually started some good conversations about music. Sometimes they are just there for ass which is always in abundance at concerts so who can blame anyone there.