@frippster nah, he was full of it. Had some of the dumbest takes I've ever heard. Every once in a while, he said some stuff that made sense, the occasional small government argument, but his opinions of nearly everything else were all influenced by his consumption of mercury as a child.
@justinb864 depends on what part. A lot of small government guys are just anarchists. The government does pay an important role; however, currently, for the American government, at least, the government is far too large. Too many powers have been granted to it, but at least not to the extent as the slave state dictatorship of Canada.
@@lasagnasux4934 Geniune anarchist are anti-state and anti-capitalist. Libertarians larping anarchism doesn’t make them anarchist. You can’t just replace the tyranny of state with the tyranny of capital. Anarchism rejects all forms of exploitation and unjust hierarchies. But you do you.
@@big_tyme_husk the fact that it’s artfully crafted doesn’t automatically relegate it to “boring and soulless” , and once we’re shifting to the most subjective possible descriptors you’ve already conceded the point . “I don’t like it “, as any given person’s assessment , is accurate . To say that he was untalented, OTOH, is just factually untrue , unless you personally need to like his work for him to have been talented . That’s fine, but at that point you’re just creating your own definition of a word outside of its actual meaning
Yes, like this fat guy who eats fast food breakfast everyday sqwaked at me last month because he assumed I use drugs. I told him junk food is the most destructive drug of all and now he won't talk to me. Truth hurts.
@@fjfurhgkaig I wonder if Zappa knew or cared about the fact that there probably were (and are) people who perform better on something. Still, it makes sense he would have a policy like that as a general practice. I respect it.
It is indeed the most inconceivable thing anyone could ever say about F.Z. Only a completely clueless person, with no musical ear whatsoever could ever utter such an ignorant remark.
True. Zappa went on to compose and arrange entire symphonies. In his head. He would complete the entire piece mentally before putting one note on paper. He was a brilliant musician. I wish I remembered the name of the documentary about him where I learned this, it was very well done and informative. If I find it I'll post the name here.
Frank Zappa and the Velvet Underground recorded "We're Only In It For The Money" and "White Light / White Heat" at the same time in different rooms. That's how Zappa got to suggest the cantaloupe sound in the Gift. "You'll get a better sound if you do it this way.", he said. According to Reed Zappa also said: "You know, I’m really surprised by how much I like your album."
Lou Reed once said summarized his understanding of music by saying something like "One chord, that's folk music. Two chords, that's rock and roll. Three chords, that's jazz".
@@evansgate Metal Machine Music was Lou fulfilling his obligations to his record company so he could walk away from the contract and sign to a new company.
Lou Reed tried a little too hard to be cool. Zappa was legit cooler than the room and his music was original and interesting, I love the muffin man live, what a great jam.
I find both bands are excellent for very different reasons. Lou reed just says stuff for a reaction and sometimes Zappa will do the same but I like both personalities despite how overly cynical they both are. I think people have a hard time liking lou in particular due to his tendency to be a contrarian and a bit arrogant but I definitely find him entertaining to say the least.
i think Lou said a lot of that stuff also b/c that's just the kind of thing one says when they're on speed. I read an interview with him from the early 70s iirc where the interviewer talked about amphetamines and methamphetamines as if they were the same thing and Lou went on a 5 minute tirade about the exact chemical formulas of all the different -phetamines while flaming the interviewer for being a pretentious dilettante :D
Yeah but he couldn’t write a decent lyric to save his life. I get the absurd 20 minute long acid instrumentals but who can relate to that, it’s just uninteresting and pretentious. He was not capable of writing songs with the emotional and literary impact that Lou Reed did and his music doesn’t sound better either for all it’s pretence.
@@j.c7719 You haven’t heard much of Zappa then. “I ain’t gonna sing you no love song ‘bout how my heart is all soft/will not beg your indulgence/ CUZ YOU’VE HEARD IT BEFORE” Listen to Trouble Every Day, I’m The Slime, Flakes, Cosmik Debris. He didn’t have poetic pretensions and wasn’t self-indulgently introspective. He makes you think and LAUGH.
@@carspiv I have heard a lot of his stuff and to be honest, I liked some of it but most of it wasn’t for me. I don’t just like to think and laugh when listening to music, I like to think and feel, Lou brought that to the table in a way Zappa never did, melodically, vocally and lyrically, even instrumentally. Try ‘I Found a Reason’, ‘I’m Set Free’, ‘Street Hassle’, I like music with emotional honesty that relates to life and poetry in lyric writing, beautiful and understated instrumentation, Lou was a master of that.
Talk about two different ends of the spectrum. One a unadulterated genius, the other a 3 chord virtuoso who's greatest work was "Rock n Roll Animal" who weren't Underground members. Let's be clear, the VU were a garage band at the right place in the right time. FZ and anyone he ever played with him were the absolute pinnacle, the zenith of musicianship, innovation, satire and mockery. Apples and oranges.
The Mothers opened for the VU in LA in 1966 during the Velvets tenure with Warhol's Exploding Plastic Inevitable at a club called The Trip. The audience included Sonny and Cher, Ryan O'Neal, Dennis Hopper and Jim Morrison.
I dont get this Zappa Is pretentious take. Just listen to their lyrics, and look at their their albums, It Is pretty clear they dont took themselves seriously.
Huh? WTF Zappa was not a depressed person or in unhappy person, listen to his music and concerts, interviews, look at his art. Sorry but it is a very strange thing to say, makes me really doubt if even know where you are talking about. Don't know about Lou Reed.
I think most of the trash talk between bands was done to enliven an oftentimes boring music gossip press. Kind of like a wrestler putting down his rival?
Even as someone who likes his music that made me cackle- some of it Does suck pretty hard. Really with how prolific he was (60+ albums) it's a matter of finding what appeals to you, he did a bit of everything.
yeah the league of barely selling a 100k records per album. the league of being an obscure experimental prog rock band. the league of critiquing bands more successful than he ever was.
@@bigbrotherishere How simple-minded can you be? Is the market your God? Are Madonna and Rihanna two of the best musicians of all time because they are two of the best selling artists of all time? Frank Zappa could never have been as commercially successful as Lou Reed simply because his music is too sophisticated for the masses. Lou Reed seems like a helpless little monkey with impaired brains when compared to Frank Zappa.
@@bigbrotherishere Is the market your God? This is the problem with contemporary, especially American, culture: it is dominated by commercially astute philistines.
I remember listening to Lou Reed's "Velvet Underground" album in the early 70's as a black teen with my friends! "SWEET JANE" 💯 PS. I had Zappa's "Freak Out" album as well! 😳
I imagine Lou Reed had been pissed at Zappa because supposedly he believed that the Velvets' debut album was held back so that Zappa could release the "first alternative record" before them even though they finished recording and production before Zappa. If that was true, then presumably Lou Reed internalized label favoristism and took it out on Zappa
Lou Reed is and was a moderately talented junkie. Zappa is and was an absolute artistic genius and America's greatest composer. Zappa did it all without drugs; what would Lou Reed have accomplished without heroin heroin?
He likely would have accomplished more. I suppose involving yourself with narcotics might give you a kind of notoriety and edge; putting you in certain networks/scenes and so forth that further your career... but from a creative standpoint, I don't think the drugs themselves enhance your musicianship. Plenty of elite jazzmen fell prey to heroin but I would not attribute their innovation and skill in the trade to the narcotics. I kind of think Zappa understood this and that is why he thought the "performance enhancing drug" angle was BS.
@@movieman4710yeah, Zappa said that he never been that impressed by the Beatles, he didn't went as far as Reed who said they were crap though. Because i believe Zappa could see the some validity in the Beatles music.
I cannot fathom two stronger contrarian personalities than Zappa and Reed. I can imagine them disagreeing on the color of the sky. The bottom line is that the Velvets were an art rock band and the Mothers were a progressive rock band. They both had their charms and their pretentions.
I guess a rivalry is good for clicks but on Freak Out Zappa introduces the VU “as shitty a Group as the Mothers” which is come on obviously a compliment.
Some people might hear this and take it the wrong way, me i just see this as 2 visionary icons of music who were inventive for different reasons. If everyone agreed on the same thing, we wouldnt have either artist.
As for the Velvets, it was their groundbreaking sound that would become so influential, opening up new doors, laying the foundations for new genres such as punk, post-punk, goth, alternative etc. But the main musical force behind their then revolutionary sound was not Lou Reed, it was Welshman John Cale. He started playing piano aged six, joined the Welsh Youth Orchestra aged 14, picking up the viola and several other Instruments, giving him a classical music background. He studied musicolgy at Goldsmith's Collage/London in the early 60's, he was awarded a Leonard Bernstein scholarship to work and study with avantgarde luminaries John Cage, Iannis Xenskis and LaMonte Young. It was John Cale who brought experimental elements and structures via the Velvets into rock music. As for musical talent, John Cale dosen't have to hide behind Frank Zappa. Cale's musical influence goes far beyond the Velvets, he produced the debuts of Iggy's Stooges, Patti Smith and The Modern Lovers, all to become milestone albums within rock'n'roll. His collaboration with Nico on her lp triology The Marble Index, Desertshore and The End were the musical blueprint for what was later to become post-punk and goth. Not only did he produce these albums, but as the arranger he composed and played all other instruments apart from Nico's harmonium. Cale is easily one of the most versatile musicians to ever walk this planet, he has covered almost every musical genre, be it rock, pop, classical, avantgarde, electronica, jazz, country or whatever. He is also known to permanently rearrange his songs and music on stage, it would simply bore him to death having to play the songs in the same manner over and over again while on tour. John Cale is easily the most underrated character within rock'n'roll, by any means a musical genius!
Lou Reed is very overrated. I don't understand all of the love he gets. I find his work to be largely bland and one dimensional. That's merely my opinion.
@@Derek-yp1re lou is a talentless scenester. All 5 ft 5 of him. Personally, I wished they punched on. Lou would be on the ground in 10 seconds screaming he's a jew and he knows lawyers ...
I love them both. Zappa was a musical genius 1967-1976..including Läther album. Lou Reed was a musical genius 1965-1970 Velvet Years..then sporadic with superb songs on different albums..solo years. Zappa made Extremely Beautiful Instrumental Music those years...Zappa was a 100% Nicotin-Cigarette/Coffein-Coffee Man. Reed was a Poet
You need to watch Dweezil's take on this. Lou and Frank never made up, Lou praised the guy who severely injured Frank in the early 70s and the R&R Hall of Fame induction speech was bullshit.
Where did you see that? I'm really interested in reading what Dweezil has to say about this. I think both Reed and Zappa are great, though Frank is the better of the two
Sometimes, you have to just say what you feel to one another and it then leads to friendship for some reason, likely b/c it broke the ice of getting personal. Weird how that works.
speaking as a person who spent the whole of 2021 obsessing over Zappa/Mothers records, there is something genuinely kind of cathartic about Lou Reed taking Frank down a peg. You do kind of get the impression from Zappa that he felt like he was “too good” for rock n’ roll, and the guy’s sort of smug personality does get kind of grating when youve binged an entire back catalogue of him. i mean i obviously dont think the guy is untalented but i do kinda understand what Lou was getting at, given his general distaste for jam bands (not that Frank would wanna be lumped in with that scene either lmao).
I like a couple of velvet undergrounds songs but have never been able to jive with zappa despite trying to listen to any and all recommendations. His son seems cool and I can see he has developed an interesting technique guitar wise but imo he's always seemed like someone that develops weird bullshit "avant garde" music to trick people into thinking he's a genius. I have noticed though that most zappa fans are really cringe when you say you dont like him in person ahaha. He's always been like a "Weird Al" impersonation of a rockstar that was notoriously judgemental of other musicians. Lou reed is just a crackhead, whats Frank's excuse?😅
Just having been at the "Sheik Yerbouti" concert in Munich in 1980, and after thoroughly listening to the album beforehand, I absolutely rated Frank as a "bizarre" inspiration. The concert was amazing - but I remember wandering around this "80,000 seater" trying to get the best possible acoustic sound out of "City of Tiny Lights".
If at some point Lou Reed didn't hate you for five minutes you ain't been alive.
ha hahaha
I like his music but there was always just something really unsavory about that guy. Can’t quite put my finger on it but it’s a vibe I get.
@@AndI0td763 he was real in his punkdom
It would have been an honor
Who is lou reed again?
Lou Reed calling anyone pretentious is hilarious
Ok, you have my permission to explain it to me as if you're even close to being on my level. Go.
Frank was also pretentious too. If anything almost everyone in that era were pretentious (in a good way)
Never ever thought of Lou as pretentious but Zappa definitely is. He had massive ego
I swear the word “ pretentious “ is horribly abused. The word has lost all meaning. Everything nowadays is “pretentious “
To be fair, both Lou Reed and Frank Zappa where both pretty pretentious at times.
Can't say that about Frank because he actually knew his shit tho
@frippster nah, he was full of it. Had some of the dumbest takes I've ever heard. Every once in a while, he said some stuff that made sense, the occasional small government argument, but his opinions of nearly everything else were all influenced by his consumption of mercury as a child.
@@lasagnasux4934 Most of the “small government” shit falls apart when you actually think about it.
@justinb864 depends on what part. A lot of small government guys are just anarchists. The government does pay an important role; however, currently, for the American government, at least, the government is far too large. Too many powers have been granted to it, but at least not to the extent as the slave state dictatorship of Canada.
@@lasagnasux4934 Geniune anarchist are anti-state and anti-capitalist. Libertarians larping anarchism doesn’t make them anarchist. You can’t just replace the tyranny of state with the tyranny of capital. Anarchism rejects all forms of exploitation and unjust hierarchies. But you do you.
Imagine calling someone like Frank Zappa “untalented”. Love him or hate him, that’s simply ludicrous
he's technically proficient, which is boring and soulless. sorry but lou reed was correct
@@big_tyme_husk the fact that it’s artfully crafted doesn’t automatically relegate it to “boring and soulless” , and once we’re shifting to the most subjective possible descriptors you’ve already conceded the point . “I don’t like it “, as any given person’s assessment , is accurate . To say that he was untalented, OTOH, is just factually untrue , unless you personally need to like his work for him to have been talented . That’s fine, but at that point you’re just creating your own definition of a word outside of its actual meaning
So right. Zappa was very talented, his music merely sounded awful.
That’s simply loureedous
@@shlomophobe5582BORING!!!!...... Zappa was filled with delusions of self-grandeur...just cringe ASF
Zappa is the kind of guy to lecture you about drugs while hes chainsmoking
Didn't he say "legalize and tax drugs"? He hated sloppy asshole drug users and the seedy underbelly of the drug scene.
Why does it hurt when I pee? It's cancer Frank
Yes, like this fat guy who eats fast food breakfast everyday sqwaked at me last month because he assumed I use drugs. I told him junk food is the most destructive drug of all and now he won't talk to me. Truth hurts.
Nope. He wouldn't lecture you, he'd just kick you out of the band because you couldn't keep up while high.
@@fjfurhgkaig
I wonder if Zappa knew or cared about the fact that there probably were (and are) people who perform better on something. Still, it makes sense he would have a policy like that as a general practice. I respect it.
I have it on very good authority that Reed and Zappa eventually reconciled over their mutual distaste for William Howard Taft and shag carpeting.
i can see why Lou would hate shag carpeting, it's so hard to get stains out after someone shoots someone down on it...
@@almishtigod damn it cecil
that's pretty good
William Howard Taft was as based as he was large. One of the G.O.A.T.'s
why would they hate Taft?
I can't conceive of a statement more wrong than "Frank Zappa is untalented"
It is indeed the most inconceivable thing anyone could ever say about F.Z. Only a completely clueless person, with no musical ear whatsoever could ever utter such an ignorant remark.
True. Zappa went on to compose and arrange entire symphonies.
In his head. He would complete the entire piece mentally before putting one note on paper. He was a brilliant musician.
I wish I remembered the name of the documentary about him where I learned this, it was very well done and informative.
If I find it I'll post the name here.
Reed was known for his off the cuff remarks, probably felt differently the next day.
He was untalented. I cant get through a single song of his.
The Velvet's are, perhaps
Lou calling out someone on their musical acumen is definitely hilarious.
Frank Zappa and the Velvet Underground recorded "We're Only In It For The Money" and "White Light / White Heat" at the same time in different rooms. That's how Zappa got to suggest the cantaloupe sound in the Gift.
"You'll get a better sound if you do it this way.", he said. According to Reed Zappa also said: "You know, I’m really surprised by how much I like your album."
@@Ech0H0use11 No that's the name of a Frank Zappa album "We're Only In It For The Money" which released in 1968.
@@kelechi_77 the fact he doesn't know that that's the name of the album is hilarious!
In Zappa’s whispering in we’re only in it for the money you can hear him say that the velvet underground are a shitty group
@@Juan-wo7zuyou can hear him say that they're "almost as shitty as Frank Zappa's group" more specifically
Love those kind of fly on a recording studio wall stories - thanks for that one! There was a time we were spoiled for choice of great new music.
Lou Reed once said summarized his understanding of music by saying something like "One chord, that's folk music. Two chords, that's rock and roll. Three chords, that's jazz".
simplicity is key
he was pretentious and he loved simplicity. humanity summarized
What was Metal Machine Music then?
@@evansgate
Metal Machine Music was Lou fulfilling his obligations to his record company so he could walk away from the contract and sign to a new company.
Kind of a shitty thing to summarize, I get the idea but I think it’s funny that he thought rock was more intricate than folk.
Lou Reed sounds like he was intimidated and jealous by Zappa’s knowledge and technical skill.
Oh yes indeed.....I found Reed a weirdo
Lou Reed tried a little too hard to be cool. Zappa was legit cooler than the room and his music was original and interesting, I love the muffin man live, what a great jam.
I find both bands are excellent for very different reasons. Lou reed just says stuff for a reaction and sometimes Zappa will do the same but I like both personalities despite how overly cynical they both are. I think people have a hard time liking lou in particular due to his tendency to be a contrarian and a bit arrogant but I definitely find him entertaining to say the least.
i think Lou said a lot of that stuff also b/c that's just the kind of thing one says when they're on speed. I read an interview with him from the early 70s iirc where the interviewer talked about amphetamines and methamphetamines as if they were the same thing and Lou went on a 5 minute tirade about the exact chemical formulas of all the different -phetamines while flaming the interviewer for being a pretentious dilettante :D
Lou Reed calling anyone untalented is ironic
No it's not
Mothers and VU are literally two of my favorite bands 😅
same
Same here...two of the great American 60s groups.
This is like getting between your mom an pops in a fight, there's no winner, because I dearly love them both.
I’m not shocked that Frank Zappa wasn’t a fan of hanging out with the guy who wrote “Heroin”.
Zappa was one of the most innovative composers of our time. One of a kind.
Thank God.
Oops, I can't say that.
Zappa was an atheist.
He was a genius, but innovative in what way?
Yeah but he couldn’t write a decent lyric to save his life. I get the absurd 20 minute long acid instrumentals but who can relate to that, it’s just uninteresting and pretentious. He was not capable of writing songs with the emotional and literary impact that Lou Reed did and his music doesn’t sound better either for all it’s pretence.
@@j.c7719 You haven’t heard much of Zappa then. “I ain’t gonna sing you no love song ‘bout how my heart is all soft/will not beg your indulgence/ CUZ YOU’VE HEARD IT BEFORE” Listen to Trouble Every Day, I’m The Slime, Flakes, Cosmik Debris. He didn’t have poetic pretensions and wasn’t self-indulgently introspective. He makes you think and LAUGH.
@@carspiv I have heard a lot of his stuff and to be honest, I liked some of it but most of it wasn’t for me. I don’t just like to think and laugh when listening to music, I like to think and feel, Lou brought that to the table in a way Zappa never did, melodically, vocally and lyrically, even instrumentally. Try ‘I Found a Reason’, ‘I’m Set Free’, ‘Street Hassle’, I like music with emotional honesty that relates to life and poetry in lyric writing, beautiful and understated instrumentation, Lou was a master of that.
Talk about two different ends of the spectrum. One a unadulterated genius, the other a 3 chord virtuoso who's greatest work was "Rock n Roll Animal" who weren't Underground members. Let's be clear, the VU were a garage band at the right place in the right time. FZ and anyone he ever played with him were the absolute pinnacle, the zenith of musicianship, innovation, satire and mockery. Apples and oranges.
Zappa was definitely on a higher plane. I always thought VU was completely overrated. Nico sang like she had marbles in her mouth.
Lou Reed calling anyone pretentious is hysterical.
i've never heard anything lou reed said that didn't make him sound completely up his own ass
Glad zappas drummer, Danny trejo, was able to clear all that up for us.
“I’m Jimmy Carl Black, I’m the Indian of the group “
Frank Zappa did not open for the Velvet underground it was the other way around
You’re right from what I read years ago.
The Mothers opened for the VU in LA in 1966 during the Velvets tenure with Warhol's Exploding Plastic Inevitable at a club called The Trip. The audience included Sonny and Cher, Ryan O'Neal, Dennis Hopper and Jim Morrison.
@@seanp9277bull 💩💩
@@seanp9277 all these guys are a damn cult, i swear.
I always liked Frank Zappa I couldn't believe the amazing speed he played guitar. Rest in peace brother
My favourite guitar player ..bar none
Unexpected ending 😂😂😂
Frank hated anyone he thought was pretentious, and became hugely pretentious in his method of demonstrating it
The more I see him the more I see that.
My opinion rules!
How's Frank pretentious?
@@Nocturnal_Spectrehow is he not
@@PasteurizedLettuce Can you provide an example? He was very intelligent and critical but I have never once thought that he was being pretentious.
I dont get this Zappa Is pretentious take. Just listen to their lyrics, and look at their their albums, It Is pretty clear they dont took themselves seriously.
Lou was projecting quite a bit. 😂
“Their use of drugs” that explains why their music sounds the way it does
I started listening Velvet Underground at 18.00 and ended at 18.00 because of wrong notes and bad rhythm they produce
Zappa seemed to have very critical of a lot of groups.
My response to the title was: Zappa hated everything lol
Don't blame him at all
The list of things that Frank Zappa hated is quite long
Reed got the last laugh: i can't think of a worse insult than including any musician in that hall of so-called fame.
That's true
I take it you've never heard Lulu?
Reed and Zappa sadly seemed very unhappy despite their success.
Huh? WTF Zappa was not a depressed person or in unhappy person, listen to his music and concerts, interviews, look at his art. Sorry but it is a very strange thing to say, makes me really doubt if even know where you are talking about.
Don't know about Lou Reed.
@@Hixley relax
I think most of the trash talk between bands was done to enliven an oftentimes boring music gossip press. Kind of like a wrestler putting down his rival?
Zappa was a genius when he did "Disco Boy" because he hit the nail directly on the head!
Shake it more than twice …..
@@jackwezesa1081 while you're standing there..
Lou Reed was pretty open about his feeling of anyone having more talent then himself is very obvious.
I do not think so, it is the opposite, so not obvious at all.
The way I understand it, Frank Zappa's music is much better than it sounds.
literallyyyyy
It's gotta be because so many people liked it, I never quite got it myself
Even as someone who likes his music that made me cackle- some of it Does suck pretty hard. Really with how prolific he was (60+ albums) it's a matter of finding what appeals to you, he did a bit of everything.
Pretty sure Lou said something like “one chord’s enough, 2 chords is plenty and 3 chords is too much” so this checks out
Did Zappa actually ever praise anyone at all? He was always putting someone down in any interview I've seen
@@alexjung9724 putting someone down is an even bigger waste of time
same with Lou Reed
@@alexjung9724 humans like praise, and praise is positive
Freak out has a whole list of people on the jacket to check out. Composers like Varese and certain band members would be talked about affectionately
@@pradabears Zappa was thee Drill Instructor of music. He doesn't believe in praise.
Zappa's talent was beyond his guitar prowess and he was a very good guitarist!
Zappa seemed to hate anything that wasn’t Zappa..
Frank Zappa is leagues above Lou Reed.
yeah the league of barely selling a 100k records per album. the league of being an obscure experimental prog rock band. the league of critiquing bands more successful than he ever was.
@@bigbrotherishere How simple-minded can you be? Is the market your God? Are Madonna and Rihanna two of the best musicians of all time because they are two of the best selling artists of all time? Frank Zappa could never have been as commercially successful as Lou Reed simply because his music is too sophisticated for the masses. Lou Reed seems like a helpless little monkey with impaired brains when compared to Frank Zappa.
@@bigbrotherishere Is the market your God? This is the problem with contemporary, especially American, culture: it is dominated by commercially astute philistines.
The Velvet Underground had an idea: "Pervert Your Sense of Decorum".
Of all the criticisms one can have about Zappa, "untalented" and "can't play rock and roll" is like saying the sky is green.
We all start stupid. The lucky ones grow out of it.
The total lack of self awareness of Mr Reed to call Mr Zappa talentless! 😂😂
I remember listening to Lou Reed's "Velvet Underground" album in the early 70's as a black teen with my friends!
"SWEET JANE"
💯
PS.
I had Zappa's "Freak Out" album as well!
😳
I heard they dissed each other for fun and there wasn't even a real feud hence they didn't actually need to reconcile.
All these groups attacked each other in the 60s and 70s but there was little genuine or lasting animosity.
Lou Reed couldn't change Zappa's strings...
Zappa could not pen songs like Sweet Jane, Rock and Roll, Walk on the Wild Side. It's not all about chops ; it's about what a song does to your soul.
Zappa was actually amazing though. His playing inspired and actually taught millions of players.
The Mothers and The Velvet Underground are two of my favorite bands and it's even cooler knowing they disliked each other
Yoo Coconut Hotel profile pic, didn't expect to see a Red Krayola fan here
Both artists are good, but I do see why people don’t Frank Zappa’s music is definitely a taste that not everyone will get.
It's a good thing neither became rock superstars or they would have had to hate themselves.
LoL 😂
I imagine Lou Reed had been pissed at Zappa because supposedly he believed that the Velvets' debut album was held back so that Zappa could release the "first alternative record" before them even though they finished recording and production before Zappa. If that was true, then presumably Lou Reed internalized label favoristism and took it out on Zappa
Freak out was done in march 1966, velvet underground was done in April/may 1966
Lou Reed is and was a moderately talented junkie. Zappa is and was an absolute artistic genius and America's greatest composer. Zappa did it all without drugs; what would Lou Reed have accomplished without heroin heroin?
He likely would have accomplished more. I suppose involving yourself with narcotics might give you a kind of notoriety and edge; putting you in certain networks/scenes and so forth that further your career... but from a creative standpoint, I don't think the drugs themselves enhance your musicianship. Plenty of elite jazzmen fell prey to heroin but I would not attribute their innovation and skill in the trade to the narcotics. I kind of think Zappa understood this and that is why he thought the "performance enhancing drug" angle was BS.
"America's greatest composer"
Are you fkn dumb? 😂
I mean Lou Reed also said the Beatles were “rubbish”. Everyone is welcome to their opinion but I think he was just fishing for attention.
Frank Zappa has definitely also said similar things of the Beatles
Lennon said Beatles were more popular than Jesus.
@@movieman4710yeah, Zappa said that he never been that impressed by the Beatles, he didn't went as far as Reed who said they were crap though. Because i believe Zappa could see the some validity in the Beatles music.
@@pascaldeslongchampsmoncton1490 Yeah true. At least Lou Reed loved a lot of Lennon's solo career tho
Both Zappa and Lou were right about the Beatles. Zappa and Lou were the real musical legends of the 60s.
I cannot fathom two stronger contrarian personalities than Zappa and Reed. I can imagine them disagreeing on the color of the sky.
The bottom line is that the Velvets were an art rock band and the Mothers were a progressive rock band. They both had their charms and their pretentions.
Zappa has the combined talent of VU in his toe nail clippings.
Yeah, just listen to Disco Boy! Lololol
I guess a rivalry is good for clicks but on Freak Out Zappa introduces the VU “as shitty a Group as the Mothers” which is come on obviously a compliment.
Just because people like assholes doesn't mean we have to pretend these ppl aren't assholes
Zappa was Zappa.
Some people might hear this and take it the wrong way, me i just see this as 2 visionary icons of music who were inventive for different reasons. If everyone agreed on the same thing, we wouldnt have either artist.
Lou Reed couldn't hold Zappa's jock strap.
Neither could Stephen Hawking.
@@Coynkydynklmao what
@@brennicklerbecause he's crippled
Why would he hold his jock strap? These aren't athletes you effing THUMB.
As for the Velvets, it was their groundbreaking sound that would become so influential, opening up new doors, laying the foundations for new genres such as punk, post-punk, goth, alternative etc. But the main musical force behind their then revolutionary sound was not Lou Reed, it was Welshman John Cale. He started playing piano aged six, joined the Welsh Youth Orchestra aged 14, picking up the viola and several other Instruments, giving him a classical music background. He studied musicolgy at Goldsmith's Collage/London in the early 60's, he was awarded a Leonard Bernstein scholarship to work and study with avantgarde luminaries John Cage, Iannis Xenskis and LaMonte Young. It was John Cale who brought experimental elements and structures via the Velvets into rock music.
As for musical talent, John Cale dosen't have to hide behind Frank Zappa. Cale's musical influence goes far beyond the Velvets, he produced the debuts of Iggy's Stooges, Patti Smith and The Modern Lovers, all to become milestone albums within rock'n'roll. His collaboration with Nico on her lp triology The Marble Index, Desertshore and The End were the musical blueprint for what was later to become post-punk and goth. Not only did he produce these albums, but as the arranger he composed and played all other instruments apart from Nico's harmonium. Cale is easily one of the most versatile musicians to ever walk this planet, he has covered almost every musical genre, be it rock, pop, classical, avantgarde, electronica, jazz, country or whatever. He is also known to permanently rearrange his songs and music on stage, it would simply bore him to death having to play the songs in the same manner over and over again while on tour.
John Cale is easily the most underrated character within rock'n'roll, by any means a musical genius!
Both brilliant, both egocentric, both important. Both wrong.
On what planet did Zappa open for Velvet Underground!
Zappa had one helluva nose tho.
Indeed. But arguably more intense is Pete Townshend's nose.
Sure Owl face😂
When I wanna laugh, I listen to Zappa, when I wanna cry, I listen to Lou Reed.
They disliked each other into the records starting coming out and had to recognize how good the other group was. Bitchiness gave way to respect.
They realized their mutual hate for hippies was greater than their personal antipathy.
Lou Reed criticizing Frank Zappa now that’s hilarious
anytime someone says "according to legend " - it is usually bullshit
The older I get the less I care about Zappa or Lou Reed
Two boys fighting on the playground.
Hey guys. They both are great.
Im a fan of zappa not VU
Lou Reed is very overrated. I don't understand all of the love he gets. I find his work to be largely bland and one dimensional. That's merely my opinion.
@@markrago7217 every lou reed album is different, there's something for everyone in his discography
@@markrago7217it's at least 50% about his image and attitude
@@Derek-yp1re lou is a talentless scenester. All 5 ft 5 of him.
Personally, I wished they punched on. Lou would be on the ground in 10 seconds screaming he's a jew and he knows lawyers ...
I love them both. Zappa was a musical genius 1967-1976..including Läther album. Lou Reed was a musical genius 1965-1970 Velvet Years..then sporadic with superb songs on different albums..solo years.
Zappa made Extremely Beautiful Instrumental Music those years...Zappa was a 100% Nicotin-Cigarette/Coffein-Coffee Man.
Reed was a Poet
To me, Zappa is like a pretentious Weird Al
Zappa was a great rock n roll guitarist wth
You need to watch Dweezil's take on this. Lou and Frank never made up, Lou praised the guy who severely injured Frank in the early 70s and the R&R Hall of Fame induction speech was bullshit.
Where did you see that? I'm really interested in reading what Dweezil has to say about this. I think both Reed and Zappa are great, though Frank is the better of the two
Dweezil the Frank Zappa copycat...can't write his own material..no respect for that dude
"This is why we have a fixed- bid system. Everybody wants to go to the head of the line..." - Tony Soprano
Sometimes, you have to just say what you feel to one another and it then leads to friendship for some reason, likely b/c it broke the ice of getting personal. Weird how that works.
Plus as big rockstar you're probably surrounded by syncophants so makes sense you'd be attracted someone who's honest.
speaking as a person who spent the whole of 2021 obsessing over Zappa/Mothers records, there is something genuinely kind of cathartic about Lou Reed taking Frank down a peg. You do kind of get the impression from Zappa that he felt like he was “too good” for rock n’ roll, and the guy’s sort of smug personality does get kind of grating when youve binged an entire back catalogue of him.
i mean i obviously dont think the guy is untalented but i do kinda understand what Lou was getting at, given his general distaste for jam bands (not that Frank would wanna be lumped in with that scene either lmao).
"a bit too academic" is an understatement.
"A two bit Pretentious Academic" is what he said about Frank.
A misstatement is what it is. Said by a jealous hack, parroted by jealous hacks.
@@alexhicks5889Riiiight... Catholic Girls: Woo-hoo!
What lmao? That genuinely makes no sense. That would've only applied to zappa in his teenage years
the ultimate word for Zappa - Arrogant.
Only Zappa and Holdsworth were far ahead of time musically speaking, no one is quite near those two.
Lou reed calling anyone talentless is a joke unto itself
I like a couple of velvet undergrounds songs but have never been able to jive with zappa despite trying to listen to any and all recommendations. His son seems cool and I can see he has developed an interesting technique guitar wise but imo he's always seemed like someone that develops weird bullshit "avant garde" music to trick people into thinking he's a genius. I have noticed though that most zappa fans are really cringe when you say you dont like him in person ahaha.
He's always been like a "Weird Al" impersonation of a rockstar that was notoriously judgemental of other musicians. Lou reed is just a crackhead, whats Frank's excuse?😅
I never got the continuous praise of Zappa as an innovator. I do like his take on censorship though.
Like, Frank as a reflex undermining them because of drug use is pretty lame behaviour.
kind of.............conservative. lol
It should also be noted that they were both the “out there” groups on Verve Records at the same time
Just go and listen to Cardiacs. Best way to improve our lives.
This is the answer. Chaotic genius without the ego, who knew how to take appreciate their influences.
There is a special ring in Hell for the perpetrator of "Metal Machine Music".
I have never heard a single thing from zappa that was worth the time i spent to hear it
poor soul
Frank Zappa was, and still is one of the best,most innovative guitarists ever.
I'll take Zappa over Lou Reed any day.
Tend to agree, But its like two cheeses, each require equal respect for their own attributes.
Yessum😊
Yeah it is interesting how sarcasm is lost on people who think that any of those old quotes were serious.
I’m a Zappa fan.
Just having been at the "Sheik Yerbouti" concert in Munich in 1980, and after thoroughly listening to the album beforehand, I absolutely rated Frank as a "bizarre" inspiration.
The concert was amazing - but I remember wandering around this "80,000 seater" trying to get the best possible acoustic sound out of "City of Tiny Lights".
Zappa was talented but never cared for much of his music
But Lou Reed, Rock and Roll Animal is a fucking great album
Try the Hot Rats album and the Apostrophe album.