The Clone Gunship is a Poorly Designed
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.ย. 2024
- The LAAT was quite important for the GAR especially in the early days of the clone wars. It started suffering very heavy casualties and it became apparent that this entire platform was just a bad idea.
In aerial combat designing a jack of all trades, master of none is always going to be a risky move, and LAAT's vulnerabilities are extenuated by its lack of specialization. We take look at why this entire gunship transport class of vessels makes no sense.
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How dare you insult my waifu?
🙇♂️
YOUR waifu? You mean MINE?!
@@LAV-III YOUR WAIFU?! YOU MEAN ***OUR***?!
Came here to say those are fighting words
I see my fellow My brothers come to defend our waifu
This is clanker propaganda.
I laughed out loud when I read this 😂
Please don’t use that derogatory term, it’s 2024 ABY!!
😂
“During the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan when the Jedi used Weequay pirates to deliver stinger man pads to the Afghan mujahadin to help them fight the Soviet Union...” - I knew my school education was failing me in teaching proper history. lol
😂🎉
Ha
Easily the best part of the video
Pity they didn't have the late Phillip Seymour Hoffman's Zen Master. he might have warned them of Order 66.
I laughed at that part.
Fun fact. The apache gunship has 4 exposed handlebars and seats on the sides of the cockpit called "suicide seats". These allow special forces to hold on for dear life as the gunship speeds in, clears a small LZ, drop of the SF guys and get back in the air and be a menace to everything on the ground.
It was used like that at one point in the afgan war to asist some british soldiers rescue one of their own. The gunship landed quickly, the brits jumped off and the pilot stayed on scene to wipe out anything that got within 200 yards of the brits like a loyal, fearsome steel dragon. Sadly they were too late to rescue their comrade, as he had been killed sometime before they got there. But in response, the brits and the gunship wiped out the encampment.
That'd be the Little Bird, UH-6 (I think the designation is), not the Apache gunship. There are, however, pictures on the net with some guy riding the chopper on the wheel.
@@jaanikaapa6925 oh no. That's the transport version of the little bird. The apache has handles just behind the cockpit that are called suicide seats. Look it up. It's quite cool
@@williamthehuntsmanI think you’re mistaken, I googled the story & it looks like the Royal Marines just strapped themselves to the helicopter & held on for dear life
@@dogloversrule8476 I think you're right. But I could've sworn one of the royal marines said they held onto some sort of handlebars.
The purpose of those seats is so the Apache can perform its own Combat SAR. Apaches always fly in pairs. Often with pairs of pairs. If one of the Apaches gets shot down, the crew can make a run for a safe landing site and the second helicopter can pick them up. All Apache crew carry a harness and straps in their personal vest. The British showed that the seats can be used to get troops into a Combat SAR as well as out.
"These gunships fly like butcherbugs and cut into us like Blood Carvers. We must have one."
ARCHDUKE POGGLE THE LESSER
So there's a story about how the US heard about an unattended MI-24 in the desert and flew a special forces team in within 18 hours to steal the thing and bring it back to the US. They very much wanted one.
The LAAT suffered from the same drawback that much of the republic navy and army did. Most part of the war-machine had to do too many jobs. The Venator had to be a carrier, mainline flagship and troop transport all in one (Acclamator did some transporting of course, but from the Clone Wars we mostly see the Venator perform all three tasks), V-19 torrents had to be escort fighters, superiority fighters and interceptors (at the start of the war at least), Clones had to be front-line soldiers and pilots (at the end of the war), Jedi had to be peace keepers, generals and teachers, and the LAAT had to be a gunship, troop transport, general purpose transport and even search and rescue, all at once. As a reactionary force everything had to be pumped out quickly and they didn't have the time or resources to create individual tools for every individual job, so a lot of things had to be a jack of all trades.
Thats a more a creative decision because acclumater is designed for large trooper deployments while the venator is more for defense theirs was another class that was built more for offensive i forgot its name also the cgi clone wars had alot of style over continuity stuff
The worst part of it was that many of the platforms were basically well designed and had the potential to have very effective variants built on the same production line.
The Acclimator did have a rare carrier retrofit that was very formidable and filled a useful niche, and was better value in terms of cost and crew requirements for the number of snubfighters it carried.
The Acclimator could have also been turned into a deadly bomber - imagine the equivalent load out of a squadron of StarFortresses that could actually make it to the target.... a single Acclimator raining proton bombs could have wiped out the entire surface army and landed Core ships of the CIS at the first battle of Geonosis.
What about a space dominace version with extra laser cannons and Turbolasers, and a lot more missiles instead of the capacity to transport ground forces.
The Venator also had the same potential, a battleship version that didn't have the hangar doors or the actual hangers. Instead, it has heavy firepower and a lot of missiles launchers and missiles to take out enemy capital ships in slugging matches. The carrier capacity is turned into missile reloads capacity, and it just spams salvos at enemy capital ships, taking them out fast.
And for laughs, paint on fake hangar doors on the hull.
I've posted a reply under a comment _about shields_ with the ideas for LAAT variants.
But basically, a more specialised troop transport with just a pair of laser cannon turrets for self-defense and light LZ clearing. And a separate gunship variant that can defend against fighters with full coverage of all arcs with laser cannons, missile/torpedo launchers, and can do airstrikes and CAS.
Both versions have decent shields. The troop transport doesn't have the launchers or outrider beam weapons, which saves the weight for shields.
The gunship doesn't have the troops, so it has extra heavy shields.
And the space for far more ordinance.
In other words the republics designed excellent chassis’s/ platforms. But didn’t have to time to exploit possible variations before they had to focus on “multi-potentially so as to not get overwhelmed by the sepretist.
The Venator is about the only thing good about the clone war era republic. It was a Carrier with some teeth - it was functionally a forward operating base with a hyperdrive. In function: It was more space station with engines, than battleship. But because the republic didn't have any other options: They just kinda used it however. What they should have done, is leaned on the fact they had FTL capable starfighters; heavy rockets, space bombs, and just go drop 150 fighter/bombers in on your enemy with basically zero notice, and obliterate the enemies capital ships before jumping out. Then pull in your capital ships.
What the Republic needed was frigates that could screen fighters - two of those, along with a carrier, and well: away you go.
But lets be honest: The Jedi were put as commanders of the clone army because they would be incompetent. Seriously: They didn't have the military tradition, and they are somewhat known for wrecklessly charging in. This created animosity between the regular republic security forces and the jedi: The Jedi were seen as incompetent, ego filled, and wasteful. The clones were brutalized in war under incompetent leadership. And civilians saw the absolute disregard for life the Jedi seemed to show case in war.
The LAAT should have been broken up into two modifications - the gun ship, and transport variant. But that would require competence: And why have competence when you can have an overpriced one size fits all approach?
To put it bluntly, there is a reason the Venator was about the only thing that had any staying power in the Imperial navy, though they were generally replaced in purpose by Imperial class star destroyers which is arguably a mistake. The Venator could have carried more fighters/bombers while having reasonable fire power, and probably cost like 1/2 of an imperial class, and have lower maintenance costs and so on.
And this brings us to: The Republic HAD the time, space, and resources to fix the issues. It's just that the leadership of the republic had a certain amount of incentive to NOT fix the issues. And that context matters a lot.
@@formes2388 all Palpatine wanted was to nationalized the Space Industry and Banks , for that he needed more ships , laats , tanks produced which also needed destroyed ships making a need of production , Now he can't have competant leaders and working designs right that would survive longer , Palpatine fucked the Republic Navy and republic war machines and leadership , Jedi were peacekeepers for godsake , Mandalorians could've been hired for generals ,
Venators could've had Old Dreadnought heavy cruisers and carracks as escorts , hell , they could've been in another star system while Starfighters attacked the enemy fleets with anti fighter Corvettes
, the Nu class with better shields , armour , durability , survivability and capacity , could've been mass produced instead of standard laats but with last heavy lift for tank transports , Arc 170 were enough ground support gunships
The LAAT is the ultimate hot drop transport. It can clear the LZ, drop its troops, then lead the charge with an initial strafing run to sow discord in enemy ranks. Sure, you could do the same thing with a dedicated transport and a dedicated gunship, but then your hot drops are split into separate, easily anticipated stages: gunship clears LZ, gunship leaves, transport lands, dispenses troops, transport leaves, gunship comes around again for a strafing run.
With only a single type of vessel - it HAS to stop, and it ceases providing a serious threat allowing aim and take out to take place - meaning your troop transport is extremely vulnerable. If instead, you seperate out the rolls, as soon as you are approaching, the gun ships are able to move, and force action against them while providing a meaningful threat. Once your troops are deployed slower transports are able to move in, and land that heavy equipment.
Having a one size fits all approach is more costly, and has massive sacrifices in maximum capability for any one purpose to make that happen.
@@formes2388 Having one size fit all approach is cheaper. Since you don't have 2 separated logistic lines.
Else Multirole fighters wouldn't become such a popular thing.
Cool insight, but I just watched a 12-minute video of someone explaining all of the downsides that massively outweigh the one benefit you just explained.
@@armorist_8712
And? A video on youtube did not change reality.
Putting weapons on blackhawk and Mi-8/17 isn't the same? It's fucking the same. If it is oh so bad an idea, why do you need to do so?
This is a tech limitation and some doctrinal adjustment, not an objective fact.
Again, multirole fighters.
HOW DARE YOU INSULT THE LAAT. I LOVE THIS GUNSHIP
YOU TAKE THAT BACK NOW!
its on the internet now...no backsies even if i could 😄
Then this is not the video you are looking for
@@GenerationTech Also this fan made Earth variant LAAT art in this thumbnail is made by male Israel artist Vlad Mojaev!
Yeah this was probably funded by the dolphin cartel!
@@pyeitme508 awesome.
Ship designer: *stares intensely at binder clips* I have an idea...
Co ship designer : not on my nipples you dont
I can’t unsee that now, I hate you 🤣
I actually used to use binder clips as laat stand-ins as a kid. I still occassionally pick one up and make engine noises. 😆
@@sumukhvmrsat6347 "No, they go on your foreskin."
How dare you point out the flaws in our favorite designs like a rational person.
I think an issue that's also huge is that they don’t have strong shields at all, and that's not the kind of thing you can skimp on for such a big target, so they end up being really fragile. A couple fewer turrets in exchange for a shield generator wouldve been a good trade, especially since suppressive fore tends to require an enemy with self-preservation instincts. (Which B1's have, but mostly only when its funny)
And that is the big difference between the Hind and Star Wars - *shields* are an available option in Star Wars.
Another good change to the LAAT platform is to actually give it more variants. Which also has logistics bonuses.
The Troop transport is all about survivability with the heaviest shields that are practical, and firepower limited to a pair of anti-fighter laser cannon equipped turrets to make enemy fighters have to work for it. A turret that covers the back quarter so that pursuing ships on their six have to dodge returning fire, and another on the front so that they aren't cheap kills head on and that turret can hit ground targets they are approaching.
The turrets do ground attack double duty for suppression fire and LZ clearing. Being able to take out enemy infantry that suddenly appear, or unexpected weapons emplacements (especially AA, both "man" portable and fixed/vehicles) is useful even in the troop transport role, especially for extraction under fire. If the front turret can worry a enemy fighter, they can take out any infantry that are shooting at the disembarking troops. The rear turret also takes out infantry that are trying to shoot at them as they are overflying, a common tactic.
But then there's also a pure combat gunship variant that has its troop capacity greatly reduced or even eliminated, in return for a lot more firepower and maybe even better defences - extra shielding, and countermeasures and so on. [Plus a EW variant instead of the extra ordinance?]
And more turreted laser cannons covering all aspects so it's actually a threat to enemy fighters.
Plus a lot of ordinance in what was the troop compartment. Extra ammo for the rotary launchers that are now back, and/or maybe proton torpedo launchers.
It lays down large torpedo/missile/bomb salvos before the troop transport variants come in to land, and it does overwatch while they do so, eliminating any threats that pop out to take a shot at the landed transports.
Being the same basic platform it flies with the transport variants acting as protection and as the Tanks in front of the Personnel carriers.
The flight performance is close enough that they stick together. It can then go do its own thing blowing up stuff and acting as Close Air Support for the ground forces, while the Transports go back for more troops, with some of them (and/or fighters) escorting the transports.
And it would be difficult to pick them out instantly in a mixed formation unless you're close enough to see the extra turrets and the launchers, unless of course the GAR paints them differently....
And going after a troop transport version for the extra kills may be more risky if you make a mistake.
"They're bringing in troops to land ... hang on, no those are gunships coming right at us.
We're rogered."
I was under the impression from other lore that shield emissions where highly carcinogenic, or something similiar, hence why they aren't used on open vehicles and only mentioned in personal use in extreme situations
@bengrogan9710 Yeah, I remember that video about why Droidekas get shields and humans don't, though I don't remember anything about vehicles. If it is a concern, they have those sliding blast doors that they could just keep closed until it's time to drop.
"The enemy will start to attack it later in the war." Wont that happen to any transport. Where it failed is not having any sort of fighter support.
Exactly
Grevious WISHED the LAAT was worse. It managed to fly past a massive detachment of the droid army, drop of elite clones including the badass Captain Fordo, proceed to assist in decimating the droids outside while the clones held off General Grevious, and then come in for air support and honestly prevent General Grevious from attacking anymore as the clones saved the Jedi in peril. God I loved the ‘03 cartoons. If the good general wasn’t careful, he would have died.
For the job, particularly the specific one it was designed for, you'd be hard-pressed to find a better ship. That doesn't mean you can't criticize it, especially in how it was often deployed.
For smaller special forces missions, it would have fit better, especially if you shrunk it down. I always found that it had too much vertical space in the passenger bay; having to stand and reach for a strap means that there is a lot of wasted space that either could be utilized better or simply removed.
Cut it in half making them sit and use that space for a shield generator. That would give them enough staying power that surface to air weapons would need to be dedicated power or be big enough to be targets before landing troops could even be considered
I take it back
🤞
U BETTER MOFO!
i still remember the anti air missiles launched against laat on geonosis and i was like these gunships are dead and a few second later boom , even kenobi gunship didnt survive, these gunships really needed a shield generator.
The more survivable ,shield equopped
Nu classs and rho class transports and faster and agile Eta class shuttles were better than the standard LAATs as main tranaport platforms , Eta can be loaded with weapons and made a faster gunship
@@arnoldshmitt4969 they needed shields ,armor ,speed
The US had a UH-1 gunship variant in Vietnam before the AH-1 really got rolled out. They had several guns, a grenade launcher at the nose, and pods of missiles. And still carried troops.
Clone Gunships may not be practical but they've got +1000 Aura
"How wrong can we get ball turrrets?"
Lucas: "yes"
The LAAT is an Airborne Infantry Fighting Vehicle. It hangs around with the infantry after dropping them off as fire support.
Fun fact, originally the Hind had a flight crew of 3. Two pilots side by side and the gunner in the front. It became a tandem after the first, A, model. Also you have the crewmaster inside the cargobay and quite often a Dushka inside it.
TAKE THIS BACK, FOR THE REPUBLIC
I've seen some impressive things as an ARC trooper in the GAR. I've seen Venator Star Destroyers take on CIS armadas single-handedly. I've seen unending legions of battle droids. I've even seen Master Yoda a few times. But I think the greatest thing I ever saw was LAAT/i dropships flying out of a binary sunset, engines roaring, loaded with reinforcements, ammunition, medical droids, and food.
Good to see another ARC around. You an Alpha batcher, or are you a Training Program graduate like me?
Diversification might have been wise, but it also could have presented other tactical issues. Say we take an LAAT and split it into a transport with gunship escort. Just as the Separatists learned to prioritize LAATs before they could dispense their troops, the Separatists would learn the optimal target priority to minimize losses on their side. And the CIA has plenty of options for taking down a priority aerial target: AA guns, guided munitions, fast vulture droids and even faster droid tri-fighters.
Take out the gunship, and the transport is target practice. Or, take out the transport, and the Clones won’t be able to take control of the ground.
He’s also missing the limitations of volume, that extra ship he suggests using would mean losing in half your transport capacity.
The reason ukraine and Russia flies helicopters along roads at low level is that the airborne radar assumes that they are traffic and is programmed to ignore them
Radar can be programmed to show objects traveling over a certain speed. More likely that roads allow the choppers to fly below tree level putting them out of sight of radar all together
Nope
That’s not true, it’s the best thought out design. Look at the MI 24 hind or the HH60 Blackhawk. Quick Infiltration and exfil of troops as well as close air support.
My brother did you watch the video? He literally goes over why the MI-24s duel purpose role was relatively ineffective. Your point about the Blackhawk doesn't make any sense as Blackhawks are rarely equipped with anything more then door gunners, and if they are equipped with things like hellfires they tend to act as dedicated gunships and don't carry troops.
There is a reason why the MI-24 was basically the only duel purpose gunship, it just didn't make sense. that's why the USSR and later russia started phasing out the MI-24 for the KA-50. The VDV would use dedicated transports such as the MI-8 while fixed wing aircraft and dedicated attack helos (KA-50 and MI-28) would suppress and destroy any immediate threats to ground troops while they established a "beachhead"
during the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan, there was basically 0 instances in which using the MI-24 as a multi roll made sense. It was always better to use a dedicated transport while the MI-24 acted as a dedicated gunship.
@@seductive_fishstick8961 the soviets absolutely tried mixed payloads in afghanistan. from what ive read, the alt and temperature in afghanistan is the largest limiting factor against carrying both weapons and troops. in ukraine, mi24s dropped troops in hostomel, and performed CSAR
FIRST OF ALL: HOW DARE YOU!?😂
Second of all: I love your videos.
Also I believe that the LAAT/i still has the great benefit of being a very flexible asset that can answer to many problems very quickly.
Which I would argue is a great benefit if you're short on material and manpower.
Also the all out commitment to the gunship made logistics easier I recon.
Just imagine they would have gone with several specialized designs for transprt, Air to air, ground support etc. but they each missed their mark and did not perform on the outbreak of war.
Suddenly you have many diffrent expensive projects on your hand and lots of credits wasted.
With the "do it all" design of the gunship, they were able to probe the developing needs in the first months of the war.
And then make better informed and efficient acquisitions going forward.
If a piece of equipment forces the enemy to act in a way at other than what they want to then it is a good piece of equipment. The US uses Bradley’s for a ground based version of this role, and craft like Apache can’t be a substitute, they’re stealth based.
Talk about a hot take
Everything considered, if you take into account limited transport availability within space ships, aclamater, venator, etc., having 1 do it all vehicle, does actually make sense. That way, worst case scenario you reoutfit it for gunship, vs transport duty. Whereas if you had specialized vehicles you could quite easily wind up without one or more capabilities. The manned turrets definitely aren't the best idea though.
Something similar happened with the UH-1 Huey's that the Americans used in Vietnam. Most were used to ferry troops and supplies around. You would have ones setup as dedicated medical evacuation helicopters. And then you had these odd looking ones. They'd be configured to carry rockets, aimed for by the pilots. You would have two crew chiefs but really one was a crew chief that also operated the left door gun and the other one the right operated the right door gun. Also they technically weren't door guns at all, for better aim the guns weren't mounted from the deck of the huey but ran along a rail from its ceiling. This allowed the gunners to guide the deadly miniguns from the front of the huey helicopter to the rear, while still being albe to aim the miniguns 90 degrees in almost any direction. Add in that the gunners were protected because the doors to these huey attack gunships were essentially built with open windows, that meant they could stay closed throughout the entire flight and the gunners would only have their top halves exposed from enemy ground fire.
This variant of the huey was incredibly specialized and it lost all capabilities to ferry troops. And while it wasn't as fancy as the new cobra attack helicopters, it still did its job extremely well. Due to the huey already being manufactured so easily these attack hueys could be replaced more readily than the new cobra attack helicopters.
With the two gunners in the back and the two pilots in the front; it wouldn't have taken the Republic much to chop off the ball turrets and instead put those gunners in a less exposed place in the belly off the LAAT and then give them a similar gunners platform setup at the US military did for its huey attack helicopter variants. These new dedicated gunship LAATs would never land but constantly orbit the LZ while other LAATs transporting troops quickly landed, unloaded, and took off. While still a very vulnerable moment for the Republic LAATs, the gunships orbiting above would respond immediately to any threat providing a few powerful deterrent at minimal risk. This would decrease LAAT losses and thus clone losses while providing constant close air support - and it wouldn't be some fancy new ground support aircraft that did it. Same aircraft, same munitions and fuels, same maintenance, same everything. Just a few modifications your regular LAAT to turn it into an ever ready workhouse for the GAR in times when support from elsewhere would be limited.
10:01 clearly the LAAT was a slapdash answer to the rapid annexation and premature deployment of the Clone Army. Also, the animators wouldn’t have to have so many other 3D models to manage.
How is LAAT a dumb idea? It's one the most iconic vehicles for the Clone Army.
@jonathan4158 Iconic, yes, but not necessarily what you would employ in every situation. You fight wars by being strategic, and shift strategies to catch the enemy off-guard. The LAAT is but one of many useful tools in the GAR arsenal, but the enemy adapts, too, and presents problems the LAAT is not as optimally suited for.
Alan, a BAE 125 (civilian part 91/235 mid weight turbofan powered aircraft) tanked a hit from a SA7. A soviet MANPAD MISSILE!
Not my larty 😢.
Thanks for another great video, love ‘em.
It makes me so incredibly happy to finally see someone else refer to the gunship as a larty.
@@CloneCommanderCrater1102 what else would one call the incredible machine that is the Larty?
It’s nice to see others who refer to the (nearly) best designed gunship by its true name. I’m assuming Karen Travis’ republic commando novels are also your reasoning? I can’t remember any other media calling them larties. But then again, I could just be forgetting.
Honestly I think the rebellion really should utilise them, install a second generator and fuel tank, along with a third engine and a shield projector instead of the troop hold and you have a durable (doubly so now it has shields) incredibly manoeuvrable and fast (especially with a third engine for greater speed, similar to Din Djarin’s N1’ third engine) and has an incredible payload. Plus you could also probably automate those two composite beam turrets so the co-pilot/ gunner can utilise those (have to switch between that and the rear gun) whilst the pilot controls the forward ball turrets, wing mounted smaller composite beam turrets and the mass driver missile launchers.
admittedly both have a lot on their hands there, so you might need to just use some droids in the side mounted composite beam turrets and have the co-pilot use the wing tipped ones instead. But that produces an incredibly powerful gunship that could easily level imperial units- be it personnel or armour or even naval ships (if the extra engine and the shields can improve the speed and durability enough). Because the rebellion needs force multipliers more than it needs another transport for their incredibly small ground forces
@@DatBoi127 Yep. Karen Traviss' RepComm novels as well as her Clone Wars novels.
12:25 You mention that other ships were used in the ground attack role, but that isn’t what the LAATi did while landing at geonosis, and IRL copters like the Apache would/couldn’t be used in that type of operation either, the Apache is a stealth craft.
IRL the US does use the Bradley which is a ground vehicle designed along the same philosophy as the LAAT armoured with the intent to support.
In fact I would point out that the LAAT wasn’t a used as a dedicated attack craft while carrying troops on Geonosis, it was used for suppression in the arena while landing, then targets of opportunity were attacked after/while moving troops around the battlefield. They dropped the troops of and attacked targets after, quite possibly just before leaving the area.
No the Apache is not stealth never has been never will be
@@Kitt_the_Katt Famously on its first deployment it was used mostly at night to deploy Hellfire missiles, a type of smart weaponry. At night.
Or are you basic your claim on its use in the war on terror?
@@Grz349 Taking advantage of environmental conditions doesn't at all make the underlying platform stealthy, no? That's just planning, not design based
@@Kitt_the_Katt You are both right and wrong here. The standard Apache isnt a true stealth helicopter. However, there is a stealth variant of the Apache. It is a lot like the Stealth Hawk. Not used often and only used by SOCOM.
@@halogen9347 thank you for introducing me to the stealth hawk, by the way, but unless you mean the cancelled Comanche I'm not sure what stealth Apache variant you'd be referring to?
Now I want to see more of the "we love the J-R Programming" edit of the clone march with music
what was the song that was playing called?
The comparison of Star Wars/Scifi equipment/events to real life is my favorite thing about this channel.
As a major nerd of both military hardware and scifi, it really fills that niche I need
Allen is trying to get himself killed in these past videos. XD
But fr im loving these devil's advocate kind of videos you've been making. Its a fresh way to look at these awesome vehicles. Keep it up!
The way you made the LAAT look in the thumbnail makes it look A LOT like a Vertibird the US used in the 2070s
If you're the contract manager for the Kaminoan cloning corporation - you might see any vehicle specification as enhanced by adding a few more clones to the load out. Why settle for a 3 man crew if you can jam a few more expensive clones into every space frame - i imagine they were the more profitable line item.
Last time I was this early the senate wasn’t just Palpatine
Yo
I got here a little late, is he the senate yet?
I’m picturing the Clone Jumptroopera using a Mandalorian Gauntlet as a drop ship
The Mi-24 is also the only helicopter to be classed as an "Assault Helicopter" rather than a gunship or attack helicopter. That's not just a Russian classification either. That's NATO too. It's not agile, but it does have an incredibly high top speed and they're very hard to kill. There's a model of it that trades the 12.7mm rotary gun on the chin for a twin barrel reciprocating 20mm autocannon that's mounted on the right side of the fuselage near the front. There's even a loadout for the Mi-24 that has a pair of 500kg bombs (one on each wing). Something that's quite unique for modern helicopters to do. The Mi-8 may hold more troops, but compared to the Mi-24, it's quite fragile. Beautiful helicopters.
You better sleep in a windowless room or a drone might just drop in a couple of danger noodles and I'll make sure there are no unstable teenage wizards to guard you
1:49 like the Shrek 1 movie & 3:38 like the Helldivers 2 reference. XD
Talking about specialized ships reminds me of the old Lensman books. The Galactic Patrol had two shops designed to work in tandem. First was a drone ship that beyond engines was only shields and tractor beams. They would catch enemy ships and hold them in place, theoretically having strong enough shields to take a beating. Then the Mauler ships would show up. Maulers had no shields but were brisseling with enough weapons to annihilate any Boscone ship.
The empire still continued to use the LAAT well into the new hope era .
I'm surprised the Empire didn't use more of them to deal with the rebels when you consider their military philosophy.
This video is clearly a fundamental insult against the 'Rule of Cool". Well, in all seriousness, the clones weren't seen as any different from an LAAT, AT-TE, or even a dc-15 anyway. Also the attrition rate for clones we see is far too high to be 'natural'. I'm a full believer that Palpy made sure as many clones wouldn't see the end of the war as possible, weapons design decisions and all.
Why haven't the Feeds been round up. Voters already they have power agents
FOR THE REPUBLIC!
1) Being outnumbered the GAR had no choice but to adopt multirole platforms to ensure sufficient numbers for any one task.
2) "dedicated transports" usually get up-gunned after a few ambushes
Look, it's Star Wars.
Rule of Cool applies 😅
Like, the Mi-24 Hind-D is cooler than the AH-1 Cobra, UH-1 Iroquois combo, even if it's less effective 😜
The battle of Geonosis was so successful for the LAAT with it being essentially unchallenged in its ground attack role that it got roped into situations it was definitely not designed for.
It really needs to be said how awesome it is that you do real world research.
This brings me to something I always wondered even as a kid. Star Wars even in the Expanded Univers has never had a Ground Support analog like the OV-10 Bronco or the SU-25 Frog foot. Even a "Supertweet" would have been cool something designed to provide close ground support. The closest we got were the "Snow Speeders" in Empire
Take this back
They were originally commissioned by the Kaminoans after all, and they were pretty much exclusively into Cloning. So in terms of outfitting, provided only the bare minimum. An interstellar transport in the Acclamator, landing/fighting air craft in the LAAT, tanks in the AT-TE (which also doubled as land based troop transporter) and artillery with the SPHA-T.
I like how Gen Tech is the type of dude to call the one feasible and realistic vehicle in star wars a "dumb idea"
Definitely seems the "I've read the October horse and know about WW2 so I'm a tactician" kinda dude.
"the clone ship is dumb idea" 😂
Please make a video on 200 FO Stormtroopers vs 200 Clone Troopers
The best way to implement this is for air assault ops in a combined arms force.
Air superiority flying CAP. Strike fighters carrying out SEAD/DEAD. Strike VTOL's doing dedicated CAS. Gunship transports deploying troops to hot drop zones with strike fighters and VTOL's helping cover. And then dedicated transports reinforcing the assault troops.
I love you generation tech when you talk about Star Wars and the clone wars you bring such a nostalgic sense of the good old days and the good times back in the day how I miss my Star Wars childhood and I’m 27 now keep on flying guys ❤
Take a look at the UH1and the UH60.the Huey was used similarly to the LAAT early in the Vietnam War. They created the AH1 based on lessons learned from the UH1.
Very good points. Theres a reason the MI-24 started being phased out for the KA-50
I have a theory about that. We know that variations of the Clone Gunship were used for police forces on Corusant both during the Clone Wars era Republic and the early Empire. Maybe that was its intended purpose all along? Not hard to imagine Palpatine, already pulling the strings on everything, taking a look at the Gunship and saying "Yes... that would be excellent for suppressing riots or launching attacks on bands of dissenters to my rule!" Flying tank means it's highly resistant to small arms fire, large crew / cargo capacity means it could both deploy forces in bulk quickly and be used to transport prisoners, and the weapon mounts are ideal for intimidation both passive and active. You've previously talked about how the AT-AT is essentially a walking watchtower meant to inspire fear and submission, but you can't really deploy huge walkers easily on a city-planet like Corusant -- you'd been air support, and the Gunship seems perfect (from an Imperial mindset, at least) for such a role.
maybe what they needed was just a bunch of snow speeders :D ( i love the ending scene of the clones marching onto destroyers from attack of clones. need a few clone wars live action films)
I've actually been inside a Mi-24 Hind at an airshow and you won't believe how cramped the troop compartment is. I'm short and my head would be close to the ceiling while sitting down. Just imagine riding with 7 other people and carrying all your equipment.
As far as doctrine goes, at the beginning of the Clone Wars, the Republic was not used to large scale war. And war is characterized by counter move and counter counter move.
At the beginning here so idk know what he says but I never thought gen tech would say something bad about the laat, this is true history.
And you were doing so well with the X-Wing hate and the ARC-170 love too..
Honestly, I think the biggest thing the LAAT lacked was a shield generator- it wasn't going to be the fastest or most maneuverable (not transport is going to be- that's why they need to be paired with an escort), so it needed more survivability to do its jobs (get to the ground to drop off troopers and/or survive long enough on the ground to pick them up).
And I'm sure the GAR looked at the LAAT similarly to how US ground forces look at the A-10- well, specifically, how they *hear* it... The sound of a LAAT coming in is quite distinct, as is the glory of the A-10 opening up with its nose cannon; two distinct sounds that say "The Cavalry has arrived"
That is exactly how they looked at it. The clones knew that when they heard the distinctive sound of a LAAT/i they were most likely going to be ok
As someone who plays galactic contention. DO NOT STRAFE LOW AROUND AN LZ. Your LAAT will get popped and we will all die.
I think you overlooked the Huey. The US used a very similar style of gunship transport hybrid during Vietnam. Built a large portion of battle doctrine around it
YOU TAKE THAt bACk
Most of the spacecraft in Star Wars are designed to look cool but are not always functional. I love the look of the LA/AT but it should have had better sheilding for the role it was given.
But remember, this army was created by the Sith to fight a proxy war whose main goal was to consolidate power and wipe out their enemies. So of course their equipment would be somewhat lacking.
The laat feels like what you'd use for air assault operations not every operation
If you've ever played Galactic Contention and piloted the LAATs, this theory plays out pretty accurately in almost every game. The LAATs have maybe 2 or 3 minutes at the beginning of the game to drop troops and supplies before they're absolutely swatted from the sky by everything on the map with a big gun. After that, good luck on any logistics runs because you may get the drop off, but you're not making it back to base. There was a time where the game made them a little more lore-accurate in terms of how much punishment they could take and dish out. That was a glorious couple of months. A fully crewed LAAT could dominate almost any area of the map as long as it wasn't met with armor or rockets.
Funny enough, my own experience in Republic at War - a mod for Star Wars: Empire at War - mirrors this. The LAATs in that mod (as of this writing) are not just attack airships, but can carry clown car levels of troops. But I don't often use them that way. Anti-aircraft is quite brutal in that game, and the LAATs go down fast when confronting anything actually capable of shooting at them. And I really don't want to load up a bunch of clones only to see them get shot down.
Occasionally I do use them as transports, to ferry point-capturing infantry to particular locations, especially if those locations are hard to get to. But I only do that if I already know the LZ and the path there is safe.
Because it's a video game, there's not much downside to having both capabilities even if I only use one at a time - but in real life, there definitely would be trade-offs.
Honestly the LAAT is like the UH-1 Huey, but with the evolution backwards. While the Huey started as a transport and was adapted into a gunship, the LAAT started as a gunship, only to have those side turrets removed, (and replaced with doors that allowed the troop bay to be fully sealed) turning it from a gunship into a transport.
So the LAAT family has a gunship (LAAT/i (with side turrets)) a transport (LAAT/i (turrets replaced with doors)) and a heavy lifter (LAAT/c) but whats missing is an equivalent to an attack helicopter. Also I really wish the gunship and transport versions of the LAAT each where classified as their own variant instead of them both just being classified as the LAAT/i
The way I see it, Venators, while spacious and able to carry a ton of small craft, still had limited space. If each individual craft in it has multuple roles it can fill, then that means they can carry out a wider variety of missions and not have to have limited numbers of specialized craft taking up space and needing more specialized parts for repairs. If you consolidate the number of different kinds of ship you need to carry, logistics gets easier to maintain.
Generation tech video 3 months from now: “Why the clone gunship is awesome”
Couple thoughts. The Hind design from what I had read was the military wanted a helo gunship. But command insisted that all helos had to carry troops. So they kitbashed in a troop compartment into what was supposed to be a gunship. Making it bigger. So its real role was not actually carry troops.
Then the uses of a troop carrying gunship. Think the UH-1C Iroquois or Hog. These transport choppers often had weapons added to them to help them support troops on the ground. Either to clear and LZ to deploy or more often as I know it. Clear attackers so they could get infantry from hot areas.
So a multirole gunship does have use. But I would not take any helicopter up against a similar generation of fighter craft. It isn't the battle they are designed for.
The soviets had developed but abandoned titanium suits of armor for MI24 crews. Pictures exist of em, they look kinda cool
I always figured LAATs were basically the Star Wars equivalent to how helicopters were used in Vietnam. I wonder what we can learn about appropriate/inappropriate application of the LAAT from studying some of those real life strategies.
Sacred Cow Shipyards has a counter argument for you and he's already reviewed the LAAT
I have to say they were so iconic and cool looking as well if they had a bit more shielding perhaps I think they could be the perfect vehicle.
I love the LAAT Gunship.
Ive been playing Empire at War Advanced Fall of the Republic. I made a couple changes to the Mod, but indid not make any changes to the gunship. Certain Clones that have been known to do stealth operations are stealthy(Captain Rex, Captain Fordo) and what I've done when dealing with heavy enemy space forces, will land special stealth ground units, mostly Captain Fordo (who also deploys with an LAAT) and Delta Squad. Using the LAAT I will shuttle around Delta Squad to secure different locations, occasionally providing air support while Captain Fordo fortifies the main landing zone. It's a tactic that has weakned some the most fortified locations like Fondor, Sullust, Hypori with almost no losses in space forces. Reverse Obiwan tactic, taking the low ground, building a hypervelocity cannon so i can take space. Use that hypervelocity cannon on Lukrehulks or dreadnaughts like The Malevolence. I lost two Corvettes in battle vs The Malevolence. I did have several Venators, Acclamators and a couple Victory Stardestroyers, but they had a lot of Providence and Munificents and other support craft and a Lukrehulk. I definitely don't use the LAAT Gunship as a full assault craft, unless it has other support. With it's weaknesses and faults still one of the best Star Wars ships ever.
The LAAT was extremely effective at making sure though, that troops could at least get in or out safely, or at least safer than other kinds of transports. Transports used by the Empire and First Order had a single front facing opening door, while the LAAT had two side sliding doors. This meant that while the LAAT was on the ground, it could be used as cover for disembarking clones, and they weren't charging into the line of fire straight from the ship. Front facing weapons would also provide additional cover in this sense. And as seen in the second battle of Geonosis, the LAAT with doors closed provided for a fairly solid perimeter wall in the case of a last stand, especially with the ability to poke cannons or rifles out of the holes in the doors for supressing fire.
The Hind is still in service and was even upgraded to the Mi-35^^ And it can defend against stingers now. So they are still cool ;)
An Assault gunship/transport was exactly what the GAR needed. You compare it to helicopters but I would argue that it is more appropriate to compare it the AAV-7. The job is to get troops from large transport ships to the beach and then provide close support as they expand the beach head to enable heavier follow-on forces.
Given that mission set, the LAAT is exactly the right platform for the job.
What people don't realise, is that platforms like this that are relatively fragile shouldn't be used in 'even' match ups. These are weapons you use to 'punch down'. In this case, the assault gunship in theory should be used to hunt down and destroy smaller groups of enemies. The platform should be used to fly into area's with little to no anti air defence, and against ground forces that the transported troops should dominate.
Ergo, in the context of the Galactic Civil War, it was a bad choice. These things should have been used for security and for "special operations".
"No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy.” =Sun Tzu=
Honestly, a lot of the of the LAAT’s problems could be solved by reducing carrying capacity to a squad and getting rid of the ball turrets (which they did do a lot in the Clone Wars TV series)
That way you’re losing less man power if one goes down.
I also think using the extra space created by a lower capacity would be useful for more powerful engines, countermeasures, or shields to give just a little bit more survivability.
@GenerationTech I have two video ideas you can do. First video exploring which SW starfighter would be the best one for Anakin after going through all the known starfighter models and how well they would fare being piloted by Anakin. The second video would be which real-life jet fighter would be the best one for Anakin to pilot.
Night hawks actually have a gunship variant. And in there intended transport role they do come with some high power machine guns on the side that can partially fill the suppression role but only during landing, pickup, and light support roles. A more accurate depiction of a attack gunship mixed with a transport would be the hueys during vietnam. Even then they were underpowered, carried very few troops, but had heavy firepower on tap when given notice. Aking with this, there are about 5 known examples of the cha 47a attack chinook. One is left that survives in this config, and it was beloved by all but procurement officers becaus they were preproduction prototypes. Despite this they worked so well that they were used till they fell apart.
Hind is when schoolboys trieds to fesign cool choopers on theyre schetchblocks - Its puts a lot of things in one design without thinkkng on how they do individual jobs.
Hey I use an old crusty sock as a pop filter on my Mic too😁
Britain bungied some troops onto an apache
The Hind's windows weren't actually bulletproof, only the central (front) part of the canopy was. From the sides, you can shoot through it even with a pistol.
Damn those 'margins', I put all my doodles there!