Thanks Jeff that was lots of fun. It's amazing that the schrader valve is probably the most common invention known to man. In almost every air tired vehicle from tiny trikes to tractors. Weird fact, I spent 10 years designing high flow air valves like this only for pumps.
I switched from Presta to Schrader years ago, when I went from i-19 rims to i-23 rims! At the time I was using tubes of course, but I'd always buy Schwalbe or Continental tubes because they had a metal stem with a nut. Similar to what Schrader tubeless valves are now. It's still amazes me how many people are stuck on presta, even for MTB.
Another tip is to get a bag of premium Schrader cores that are used in the HVAC industry. The HVAC Schrader valve cores are used for charging freon in heat pumps and AC units, so they have to be high quality. Just use a new valve core every time you top off the sealant, and you won't have any problems with clogging.
I have not found clogging to be a problem with valve cores removed. With the valve cores removed, you can figure out the winner just by looking which valve has the biggest hole so what is the point of this video? The only valve in this video that has any real improvement over the old pressta/schrader system is the Fillmore. And that can be improved also and I’m sure someone will do that.
Exactly. This has been the bike Industry last 15 years. Something different, then somehow telling the world the tried and true method is obsolete. Some of us did Schrader ghetto conversations years ago B4 Google knew Stans. It's about wheel weight/balance. They both have plus and minuses.
Yes. When comparing the flow of water and air through valve stems, the differences in density between the two fluids can lead to variations in flow rates. However, our test was done with low pressure and low velocity, which makes the differences in viscosity between water and air less significant. Viscous effects tend to be more noticeable at higher flow speeds and pressures. So, at low flow rates and pressures, the impact of viscosity on flow behavior is reduced. Also, at low pressures and velocities, cavitation is not likely to be a concern. The purpose of my test was to rank the tubes based on their relative airflow performance, using water as a practical proxy making it easier to see than air. While it doesn't provide an exact comparison of actual airflow volumes, it does allow me to compare and identify which tubes permit more flow than others. Here's a video where I test valve stems with airflow: th-cam.com/video/m4NQwAWEsZw/w-d-xo.html
Yes air and have the test done with the cores. You’ll see the Fillmore valves will blow all of these out of the water. This is a smoke and mirrors test
Yes. When comparing the flow of water and air through valve stems, the differences in density between the two fluids can lead to variations in flow rates. However, our test was done with low pressure and low velocity, which makes the differences in viscosity between water and air less significant. Viscous effects tend to be more noticeable at higher flow speeds and pressures. So, at low flow rates and pressures, the impact of viscosity on flow behavior is reduced. Also, at low pressures and velocities, cavitation is not likely to be a concern. The purpose of my test was to rank the tubes based on their relative airflow performance, using water as a practical proxy making it easier to see than air. While it doesn't provide an exact comparison of actual airflow volumes, it does allow me to compare and identify which tubes permit more flow than others. Here's a video where I test valve stems with airflow: th-cam.com/video/m4NQwAWEsZw/w-d-xo.html
Jeff you’re a mad scientist! Hey what are your thoughts on drilling out an aluminum presta wheel to accommodate a schrader valve. Our shop (Einstein cycles) gets asked by riders to drill that damn hole bigger so they can use a “ normal” valve… and their air compressor. Usually folks don’t want to have to by an adapter or invest in a tire pump. I’ve drilled out wheels in the past… knowing it would void warranty. That being said we just don’t offer that as an option….skinny road wheels… probably not a good idea, mountain wheel probably not an issue… what do think?
Not Jones so not as experienced obviously. But I've drilled out every aluminum rim I have for Schrader. Including my hardtail that I've taken to a downhill park multiple times. I've had zero issues.
@@TylerScranton thanks Tyler! Ive heard people suggest it would affect structural integrity… maybe on a narrow road wheel running higher psi I can see that. Some of the old school mechanics cringe and scream about liability issues the shop may incur. Schrader valves make a lot of sense for set up ease.
I did it to every MTB wheel I've owned that came with the dreaded Presta- 8.5mm drill bit is needed just be careful, go slow and clean up the edges and clean out any bits of metal.
@@allengarrow6295 thin road bike wheels I can see, but a wide MTB wheel.... modern mountain bike wheels are so damned strong, there's videos of people hitting stairs on the bare rim
Removing the valve core from Presta or Schrader stems when you are trying to seat the tire bead on the rim for installing tubeless tires, allows for a faster inflation speed that will pop the tire into the rim quicker and easier. Once the tire is on the rim correctly, the cores are reinstalled and then you fill the tire with air.
You may have seen it already, but he addressed the history at 4:51. I think the inertia of adoption is just that -- people get used to something, and it takes time to change their minds. I have to admit that I see Schrader and think "cheap" because it was what was on my first, and crappiest, bikes.
If you do a flow comparison with the cores in you’d be surprised to find the Presta valve actually flows more because of the way the core is configured. The Schrader cinching mech (the spring) is internal and the Presta cinching mech (the micro nut) is external. Throw some Fillmore valves on and save your backs
Do schrader valves match presta strength when road biking like 90psi? Do they keep debris away from the valve? These are the two rumors I have heard. Neat product, i havent gone tubeless yet or id buy them.
Yes, both Schrader and Presta valves can handle high pressures effectively. While Presta valves are often associated with racing bikes and higher pressures, Schrader valves, were originally designed for bike tires and are now also used in bike shocks running up to 250 psi. Schrader is also used in aircraft wheels, almost all motor vehicles worldwide, medical gas systems in hospitals, refrigeration, air conditioning, and SCUBA gear, among others. In terms of debris protection, Schrader valves hold up very well. Even without a valve cap, any accumulated dirt or sand can be easily expelled when the pin is pressed. Schrader is used in muddy environments, such as on tractors working in the fields. Many vehicles also operate without valve caps without encountering issues. Cleaning or replacing a Schrader valve is straightforward, and finding a replacement valve core is very easy if you ever need one.
Very innovative! I bet the Jones Schrader Valves would make it much easier to seal a tubeless tire, especially with a floor pump. Well done , as always Jeff :)
I only recently found out that there was Schrader tubeless valves- I've fitted them (£9 from Amazon) to my old DT Swiss 26er X1800 wheels I've turned tubeless and will be fitting them to the H1900 E-MTB wheels next time they get new tyres/sealant. I hate Presta so much, necessary on my road bikes but on 35mm rims?? They are so fiddly, the ends can be broken by the pump and the damn cores sometimes unscrew from the tube if you're not paying attention when you think you're just loosening the top to put air in. Sh*t design really.
Presta is European and only used on bicycle rims. BMW doesn't use them, nor Mercedes. They all use Schrader. In America any air compressor you use is set up for Schrader. For presta you need an adapter, which can get lost. I guess the only reason to use presta is so that you can be all snobbish and euro looking. Apparently that makes you a better cyclist.
Thanks Jeff that was lots of fun. It's amazing that the schrader valve is probably the most common invention known to man. In almost every air tired vehicle from tiny trikes to tractors. Weird fact, I spent 10 years designing high flow air valves like this only for pumps.
The most common invention is the wheel. With or without air.
Well made video. Schrader makes a lot more sense to me.
I switched from Presta to Schrader years ago, when I went from i-19 rims to i-23 rims! At the time I was using tubes of course, but I'd always buy Schwalbe or Continental tubes because they had a metal stem with a nut. Similar to what Schrader tubeless valves are now. It's still amazes me how many people are stuck on presta, even for MTB.
Another tip is to get a bag of premium Schrader cores that are used in the HVAC industry. The HVAC Schrader valve cores are used for charging freon in heat pumps and AC units, so they have to be high quality. Just use a new valve core every time you top off the sealant, and you won't have any problems with clogging.
Maybe immerse a valve core in a sticky oil before assembly per Silca recommendation too 👍
Beautiful, simple, solid , clever engineering…THE best I’ve come across…❤
Great demonstration Jeff!
I have not found clogging to be a problem with valve cores removed. With the valve cores removed, you can figure out the winner just by looking which valve has the biggest hole so what is the point of this video? The only valve in this video that has any real improvement over the old pressta/schrader system is the Fillmore. And that can be improved also and I’m sure someone will do that.
Exactly. This has been the bike Industry last 15 years. Something different, then somehow telling the world the tried and true method is obsolete. Some of us did Schrader ghetto conversations years ago B4 Google knew Stans. It's about wheel weight/balance. They both have plus and minuses.
Sorry if you already explained this, but doesn't air flow at a different rate than water?
Yes. When comparing the flow of water and air through valve stems, the differences in density between the two fluids can lead to variations in flow rates. However, our test was done with low pressure and low velocity, which makes the differences in viscosity between water and air less significant. Viscous effects tend to be more noticeable at higher flow speeds and pressures. So, at low flow rates and pressures, the impact of viscosity on flow behavior is reduced. Also, at low pressures and velocities, cavitation is not likely to be a concern.
The purpose of my test was to rank the tubes based on their relative airflow performance, using water as a practical proxy making it easier to see than air. While it doesn't provide an exact comparison of actual airflow volumes, it does allow me to compare and identify which tubes permit more flow than others. Here's a video where I test valve stems with airflow: th-cam.com/video/m4NQwAWEsZw/w-d-xo.html
So…. we’re not pumping water through our valves, which is incompressible. Can we reconfigure this test with air?
Yes air and have the test done with the cores. You’ll see the Fillmore valves will blow all of these out of the water. This is a smoke and mirrors test
Yes. When comparing the flow of water and air through valve stems, the differences in density between the two fluids can lead to variations in flow rates. However, our test was done with low pressure and low velocity, which makes the differences in viscosity between water and air less significant. Viscous effects tend to be more noticeable at higher flow speeds and pressures. So, at low flow rates and pressures, the impact of viscosity on flow behavior is reduced. Also, at low pressures and velocities, cavitation is not likely to be a concern.
The purpose of my test was to rank the tubes based on their relative airflow performance, using water as a practical proxy making it easier to see than air. While it doesn't provide an exact comparison of actual airflow volumes, it does allow me to compare and identify which tubes permit more flow than others. Here's a video where I test valve stems with airflow: th-cam.com/video/m4NQwAWEsZw/w-d-xo.html
I wonder how Dunlop valves compare.
Jeff you’re a mad scientist! Hey what are your thoughts on drilling out an aluminum presta wheel to accommodate a schrader valve.
Our shop (Einstein cycles) gets asked by riders to drill that damn hole bigger so they can use a “ normal” valve… and their air compressor. Usually folks don’t want to have to by an adapter or invest in a tire pump.
I’ve drilled out wheels in the past… knowing it would void warranty. That being said we just don’t offer that as an option….skinny road wheels… probably not a good idea, mountain wheel probably not an issue… what do think?
Not Jones so not as experienced obviously. But I've drilled out every aluminum rim I have for Schrader. Including my hardtail that I've taken to a downhill park multiple times. I've had zero issues.
@@TylerScranton thanks Tyler! Ive heard people suggest it would affect structural integrity… maybe on a narrow road wheel running higher psi I can see that. Some of the old school mechanics cringe and scream about liability issues the shop may incur. Schrader valves make a lot of sense for set up ease.
I did it to every MTB wheel I've owned that came with the dreaded Presta- 8.5mm drill bit is needed just be careful, go slow and clean up the edges and clean out any bits of metal.
@@allengarrow6295 thin road bike wheels I can see, but a wide MTB wheel.... modern mountain bike wheels are so damned strong, there's videos of people hitting stairs on the bare rim
Use a tapered hand reamer.
How is it practicle to test valves against others with the core removed? When are you ever filling a tyre with the core removed?
Removing the valve core from Presta or Schrader stems when you are trying to seat the tire bead on the rim for installing tubeless tires, allows for a faster inflation speed that will pop the tire into the rim quicker and easier. Once the tire is on the rim correctly, the cores are reinstalled and then you fill the tire with air.
Great way of testing
id love a space frame but with 135mm spacing and quick release axles... anyhow thanks for the stem video
Just because something is new doesn’t make it better, it just makes it new.
Jeff, you are the mad scientist of mountain bikes. Why are we all using whimpy little Presta valves?
You may have seen it already, but he addressed the history at 4:51. I think the inertia of adoption is just that -- people get used to something, and it takes time to change their minds. I have to admit that I see Schrader and think "cheap" because it was what was on my first, and crappiest, bikes.
If you do a flow comparison with the cores in you’d be surprised to find the Presta valve actually flows more because of the way the core is configured. The Schrader cinching mech (the spring) is internal and the Presta cinching mech (the micro nut) is external. Throw some Fillmore valves on and save your backs
Do schrader valves match presta strength when road biking like 90psi? Do they keep debris away from the valve? These are the two rumors I have heard. Neat product, i havent gone tubeless yet or id buy them.
As far as PSI, DEFINITELY YES!
one of many examples is the forks on an MTB have Schrader valves and they are generally over 100 psi.
Yes, both Schrader and Presta valves can handle high pressures effectively. While Presta valves are often associated with racing bikes and higher pressures, Schrader valves, were originally designed for bike tires and are now also used in bike shocks running up to 250 psi. Schrader is also used in aircraft wheels, almost all motor vehicles worldwide, medical gas systems in hospitals, refrigeration, air conditioning, and SCUBA gear, among others.
In terms of debris protection, Schrader valves hold up very well. Even without a valve cap, any accumulated dirt or sand can be easily expelled when the pin is pressed. Schrader is used in muddy environments, such as on tractors working in the fields. Many vehicles also operate without valve caps without encountering issues. Cleaning or replacing a Schrader valve is straightforward, and finding a replacement valve core is very easy if you ever need one.
I could buy a bike from Jones cycles just for his original carbon fibre comment. Gold mate !!😂😂
hmm pretty fun experiment. I will have to give them a try!
Making the hole in existing rims for these ? Is it damaging the rim ?
I’d throw on some Fillmore valves and save your rims
@@Jocool0785 I already have these , They don't seel well on my hope rims .
Very innovative! I bet the Jones Schrader Valves would make it much easier to seal a tubeless tire, especially with a floor pump. Well done , as always Jeff :)
I only recently found out that there was Schrader tubeless valves- I've fitted them (£9 from Amazon) to my old DT Swiss 26er X1800 wheels I've turned tubeless and will be fitting them to the H1900 E-MTB wheels next time they get new tyres/sealant. I hate Presta so much, necessary on my road bikes but on 35mm rims?? They are so fiddly, the ends can be broken by the pump and the damn cores sometimes unscrew from the tube if you're not paying attention when you think you're just loosening the top to put air in. Sh*t design really.
Oh! So this is not for road wheels........unfortunately, this didn't help me.
Presta is European and only used on bicycle rims. BMW doesn't use them, nor Mercedes. They all use Schrader. In America any air compressor you use is set up for Schrader. For presta you need an adapter, which can get lost. I guess the only reason to use presta is so that you can be all snobbish and euro looking. Apparently that makes you a better cyclist.
Great. Now do a bike in size XL.
I am sure that when I buy Jones products that it is money well spent.