“A rock can’t turn into a human!” “Nobody is arguing that.” “Well actually you are! Uh uh uh uh uh uh.” This guy is an absolute gold star asset to his team.
A religious argument needs no proof, it requires faith. A scientific argument requires proof. True science upon it’s own merit is only conjecture and theory without definitive proof. Hence the repetition of the experiments and outcomes.
The GOD GOONS DONT need to see ANYTHING, Gods WORD is good enough for them. When god days he did everything in 6 days thats good enough for them. But what about stoning your children to death for disobeying you, god said that as well, DIDNT HE. God also CREATED EVIL, ISAIAH 45:7, apparently we thinking people don’t understand when god is just joking and when he is serious.
This is always the case. They always attack the "universe from nothing" point, but that's their own point. Their god is the one who apparently looked at the void and magicked reality into it.
Poor old Jay, nature can’t create life from a rock, correct Neddy, Forrest never said it could but Jay has no problem with his mythical being, creating a human from dust. Talk about not being able to see the ‘Forrest’ for the trees!
Fanboy you gay for this guy or what? All top comments are praising this guy. he quotes from an experiment in the 50s abiogenesis field has been dead for over 50 years but he should have been more transparent about the damn experiment or mentioned a more recent study. any biologist should know why the miller experiment actually proves life didn’t start out this way because they are forced to take biochemistry and organic chemistry. Yes, it all follows simple laws of physics which is why we can’t even replicate it with our vast intelligence and tools. Doesn’t take much to be a TH-cam athiest
In his defense, that would be the difference between “you” and “god”. From his beliefs, God can make man out of dirt/rocks. It’s a powerful thing to have on your side of the argument: the omnipotent omniscient being that can explain anything about anything.
"I would feel good about the fact that I taught the truth as best as I understood the truth. And I wasn't led astray or convinced by threats". Such an amazing response.
'Gleefully stupid' is the term that came to mind for me. It's always amazing to me how non self conscious the gleefully ignorant are; they seem to talk the most and loudest.
That "argument" is so poor and shows such a FUNDAMENTAL misunderstanding of what evolution is. You may as well blurt out "I have no idea how this works! Other people told me they have no idea how it works, so it can't work!" Just as effective.
@@stevetrejo3737 Well, the Big Bang doesn’t have any bearing on whether evolution is true. A theory is a term commonly conflated with guessing. A theory is a hypothesis that is supported by evidence and represents the best model for what we observe. Theory is synonymous with fact.
Man that murder trial analogy is mint! This caller just would not listen to anything he was told, he was so stubborn and sure he was right there was little point arguing with him.
Jay made an ass out of himself while Forrest elegantly, elowuently gave his receipts at each turn. This isn't about Jay, it's doing a service to anyone actually willing to listen.
@@Here_is_WaldoCaninae aka Canines, includes wolves, dogs, foxes, jackals, coyotes, Bbush dogs and others. There's plenty of evolution that has gone on there.
Forrest absolutely killed it here. Succinct and intelligent, AND patient enough to deal with a pretty stubborn caller. Great convo, looking forward to seeing more from him.
He's not trying to be superior, because he understands he isn't inherently superior. That's the domain of religiousness. He's merely well-educated, and he understands not everyone can spend years learning about the particulars and merits of stellar nucleosynthesis and abiogenesis. Some of us have to bag groceries, fix plumbing, dig building foundations, and pick up the trash. Science communicators like Forrest Valkai are doing their best to bring understanding of science to people like us so that we aren't so easily controlled and manipulated by people using surface-level thinking and logical fallacies. It's one of the very few benefits offered by social media.
Damn first 5 top comment are self congratulatory circle jerks . Sheeple you all are sheeple he didn’t say anything they don’t indoctrinate you with in your undergraduate years as a science major. It doesn’t require much to be a TH-cam atheists cuz you’ll get a following from everybody looking for their substitute for church. Wake up do two years as an undergrad in science and you’ll see this guy is no genius.
Yep. Matt in particular has gotten a lot of grief from people for insisting that callers properly address, show an understanding of, defend or concede points before moving on with a discussion. That not only seems like reasonable, but necessary expectations to me.
He is very sharp. I loved that he pointed out how monstrous a god would have to be to kill people for not believing in him. That part slaps, I wish all of my theist friends would watch that.
@@Pancakegr8 You cannot live in the Neighborhood if you don't believe the Neighborhood exists. Inside the Neighborhood are all the essentials to live. Outside the Neighborhood, none of them exist, so the obvious will happen if you stay outside. God doesn't kill unbelievers. They perish. Up to you to seek the door which others have already found and are trying to point you to. YOU have created the 'monster' scenario to try to negate your own responsibility in the whole matter. John 3 16 invites you to come into the Neighborhood and have life everlasting.
@@wwlib5390 Ah, John 3:16 you say? That's one of the most cherry-picked verses in the buybull. It is a wolf in sheeps clothing. Let's examine the verse: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" Since this verse comes from the buybull, it would be remiss to not point out this contradiction.:(1 John plainly states: “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.” So, on the one hand we are told God loves the world only to be again told for Christians not to love the world. Since, in both cases the Greek word here is κόσμον, one is fed a flat out contradiction especially in light of the statement of Jesus “Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” Perfection is not contradiction! Secondly, if God really loves the world, he would not have destroyed it in the flood of Noah. Love and destruction are antonyms.) Second contradiction: "that He gave His one and only Son", (In Genesis 6:2 we are clearly told: “that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.” Just as the Hebrew states: בְנֵי־הָאֱלֹהִים וַיִּרְאוּ God already had “sons” plural! So one must wonder, even if the Hellenistic Greek writer of John did not understand the Hebrew text, he surely had the LXX which clearly states “ןἱ ץἱןὶ פןῦ טוןῦ”. While Christians get all choked up about God giving his only son, Jebus, they need to read and believe their Bibles more!) Let's consider the implications of this verse. God had to sacrifice his son to prove his love for the world. Really? Kill your child to show love? That's immoral and despicable. And it wasn't even a sacrifice, Jebus came back to life! He gave up his weekend. "that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" This is a conditional promise. You have to believe in Jebus in order not to perish. The love is conditional. God's love is conditional, like an abusive partner. Conditional love doesn’t feel very nice. In fact, it doesn’t always feel like love at all. When someone loves us conditionally, it means that they put terms, restrictions, or rules on the giving of their love. While a person can have feelings of deep care or affection for you, their love is conditional if it feels like you have to earn it. Additionally, conditional love often vanishes during difficult times. We can perhaps term this “fairweather love,”
Indoctrination is what's wrong with this whole world! Jay is the epitome of the religious indoctrination of the world. This has been ingrained in our society from war, killing off people that will not accept that indoctrination and forcing children and adults to continue the cycle because of religion and it's wish to not give up the power they have amassed over the centuries!!
@@robinrobyn1714 I don't push atheism on you or anyone else. I have a problem with religion necause many of you folks try so hard to convert anyone you see. Leave it out of our government. It is not offensive to me for you to practice your religion. I have a very steady moral compass in spite of having been raised christian. I've seen to many people misrepresent the bible. I don't believe we should be living by 2000+ year old manuscript because of the time period it was written and the many times it's been changed.
I will admit that the first time I saw Forrest, I wasn't sure if he was legit or if he was pulling the Ben Shapiro routine of talking fast, using big words, confidence in his correctness, analogies to somewhat disparate fields (murder trials) as a basis for his argument, etc. There's a certain type of conman who sounds just like Forrest, and I wasn't sure if he was one of them. Turns out he isn't, but I couldn't tell right away.
The sad part is that people like Jay are Parents, Voters, Lawmakers in the USA. He couldn't even answer a single question. I'm subscribed to Forrest channel. Definitely a great addition to this lineup.
Whilst I probably have to agree, I sincerely hope that he isn't a parent and in his current "status" NEVER becomes one. Personally, I'm not sure he'd be able to work out where all the "ingredients" go..lol.
As hominems makes it look like Forrest doesn’t have a good argument. I don’t want them going off on a tangent about how I’m making fun of them so I just stick to the argument even if the person calls me stupid.
As soon as someone says evolution is just a theory, I stop talking science with them because nothing can be accomplished talking to the equivalent of a flat Earther.
Same. Specifically if they started asking how the universe started without a creator. I just immediately concede by saying "Yes, there may be a creator. But how can you prove yours is the right one?" The goal is make them talk about their holy book then unleash every fallacies, god's unjust decisions, bigotries, contradictions, and errors in their book. Most people tend to show eagerness to listen and learn about science discussions once their fairy tale has been demolished.
Oh marvelous, another twit with selective hearing. Is it really too much to ask for a caller to respond to the actual statement that was sent instead of whatever b******* they cooked up on their head?
The moment I heard him say that no one ever saw a monkey turning to a human I immediately thought that this guy either has to be a troll or a total imbecile............ Which now that I think of it is not necessarily mutually exclusive.
I loved the way this character went on and on refusing to answer Forrest's question about evidence in a murder trial, and then had the gall to accuse Forrest of avoiding his question. Did he actually think anyone would be bluffed by this?
@@nathanmckenzie904 Forrest is amazing! Seriously one of my absolute favorite content creators. It's super cool to see him engage in real-time conversation and still end up on top
I have been an activist (different topic but still an activist) for a long time. After a while you have heard the same statements a thousand times. So you are prepared for the vast majority of "arguments" because you have heard them over and over and over again.
@@nathanmckenzie904 This. Forrest is absolutely brilliant and ironically probably more caring, understanding, and philanthropic than any Christian you'll ever meet.
The moment he brought up evolution, then immediately the Big Bang theory and followed it with abiogenesis, I knew exactly how this call would go. And he conflated all 3 in the matter of 15 seconds. He behaved exactly how I knew he would and committed every logical fallacy that I knew he would. Many of these theists are so predictable.
It's basically a script, there's dozens of places people can get "training" on how to "debate" atheists but they're usually made by people who don't actually know any atheists or actual science.
It sounds like he's been listening to Kent Hovind "teach science" despite not knowing the difference between the big bang, stellar and planetary formation, abiogenesis, and evolution.
I know forrest knows his stuff and knows it quite well, but it is a completely different skill to be able to debate these points and come across as clear and rational. Very well done Forrest
Bro i watched Forrest's videos a few years ago and he converted me atheist because of how much sense he makes 😂. I swear any christian just needs to watch his Reacteria series and if their honest with themselves, will convert.
Jay: "OK Mr. smart guy. Well I'm going to ask you a bunch of questions that don't make sense, in a real aggressive way, so I can try and get a gotcha and satisfy my delusions"
Not defending Christianity, analyzing the perspective truth verses hypotheses. It seems both sides claim the evidence is there, but have no idea of what real proof is. The priest and the scientists have the evidence, and have studied it. The rest of us follow with a bind faith that suits our emotions. As for Christianity, there are plenty of followers that are scientists, but there are very science followers, including the original poster, will to perform a scientific experiment to prove or disprove, to themselves Christianity is not the best way to carry on. Or any religion for that matter. Science is very simple, if you really believe it.
Because that indoctrinated poor guy needed some respect and help, so Forrest gave him more than a chance because Forrest has proven to me multiple times in many different videos that he's a really good person, no one is perfect, because perfection can't be defined
The caller's internal monologue: "I have no idea what Forrest is talking about. What do I do?" "Stop listening! Keep repeating the same thing over and over again, that usually works." "Great idea, me! You never let me down!"
My favorite part of these interactions is when the host offers an excellent response/rubuttal and the only thing the crazy caller can do is stumble onto another topic to distract from their ignorance or stupidity.
@@grantwing4942 I can get writing stuff down,ahead of time (or during) a call, but people trying to use a script just don't understand how quickly a conversation can break free of it. I guess they lack confidence? Intelligence? Honesty? I dunno.
I loved that they held him down to that one question. Jay Kept trying to move on to other things but Forrest nailed him to answer the question. And the sad thing, Jay just waited for his turn and didn't listen
Jay employed a classic "Gish Gallop." He had his arguments lined up in such a manner as to switch directions as soon as the last question was asked and answered. Forrest is answering questions about abiogenesis and the next thing out of Jay's mouth is Einstein's Theory of Relativity. By then, Forrest is like, "I'm on to you, pal!" When the classic, "have you seen.." and "where's the evidence?" lines come out, Forrest shuts him down pronto quicky. Even Jim Barrows is kicked back on his boat-on-the-water set, enjoying that take-down!
There's just no point in trying to explain complex ideas or present evidence to someone if they can't even demonstrate an understanding of how "knowing" things works. If they're starting off from a position of refusing to learn anything after asking questions that demonstrate a fundamental lack of basic understanding of the topics, no useful communication can take place.
Jay didn’t even wait, his mouth was moving as soon as Forrest would begin his answer. If Jay believes in a god, he should recognize that he was given ears to mouth in a 2:1 ratio and then proceed to use them in that same proportion.
@@ienjoylife But he has been listening to his … teachers and preachers for all his life, so he must talk now! What if he dies before he’s balanced that out?
Holy crap.... Jay doesnt know ANYTHING.... Thanks for people like Forrest who make learning about all these things so so so much fun. And there is the dishonesty... theists/creationist ALWAYS resort to dishonesty. They have to.
Atheists offer no hope. Only death, you die, bye, bye see you no more. God/Jesus offers life. everyone has the right to choose. No religion needed. Just faith, faith alone.
Trying to have an intelligent conversation with someone who is painfully, willfully ignorant on so many unrelated subjects must take so much patience. Bless you.
I love how people with little to NO science education will sit here and argue with people who know their shit about the scientific process, like they can "get them" in an argument. The height of hubris.
People like Turek, Hovind, Hamm, etc. have convinced him that trotting out *their* talking points (which he likely doesn't understand either) will win the argument.
0:40 "So Evolution is just a theory then" Me: Hey, it's a Kent Hovind fan. 1:27 "So you can't make life out of a rock?" Me: HOLY SHIT NO I WAS JOKING! Also I love that Forrest smiles through the immense amount of frustration in his voice with this literal Kent Hovind parrot. Absolute champion.
Indeed. It results in cretins like Jay calling in and claiming the Miller-Urey experiment was flawed because they applied electricity, while being too stupid to realise what events such as lightning are.
Not to mention the ever encroaching hell-scape of Christian Fundamentalism that's been injected into the public school system for the last several decades. That, or Jay from Missouri spent too much time in his youth breathing in the fumes from leaded gasoline further destroying his mind.
Atheists offer no hope. Only death, you die, bye, bye see you no more. God/Jesus offers life. everyone has the right to choose. No religion needed. Just faith, faith alone.
@@paulgemme6056 your argument offers no hope. For starters, being an atheist doesn’t necessarily imply the person doesn’t believe in an afterlife or reincarnation. Maybe understand a topic first. As for the second part of your post, it’s all one big baseless claim. You can’t prove a god or old JC can “offer life”. The fact you need to rely of “faith, faith alone” rather proves that. Faith alone is as garbage as the argument you’ve just made.
@@Heathen.Deity. Everyone has a choice. Believe that the creator of universe God/Jesus offers you the free gift of eternal life (to know him) or believe the biggest lie that the father of lies wants everyone or believe there is no one true living God/Jesus.
I respect his curiosity but even after presenting the evidence it seems like Jay still has an agenda to disprove evolution or anything that goes against his YOung earth creationism with little review.
@@abnerruiz4011 "Curiosity"? He's trying to ask gotcha questions. He has no interest in the answers... which is why he tries to interrupt so much. The rest of your comment pretty much addresses this problem, but the first four words make no sense.
@@Mythraen Exactly. It's also why he didn't want to answer the question about accepting evidence. He already knows there's plenty of evidence. If he accepts that evidence is acceptable then that's the same as accepting that he's on the losing side of the conversation. He needs evidence to not matter since he knows his side has none.
i know Forrest did most of the "heavy" lifting with this one but hats off to both of you. thanks for being the voice for those of us who don't have the patience, the knowledge on demand, the working and very fit scientific vocabulary, debating skills etc. guys like you make me proud to be an atheist
I like how Forrest seemed a little more patient than he normally is when he's reacting to creationist videos, at least at the beginning. I do genuinely feel sorry for Jay, though; the psychological impact that comes from being indoctrinating into any religion, let alone Christianity, is quite powerful
I think the way you're brought into the religion also matters because some groups are more controlling and cult-like while others are just "yeah, I'm Christian" and move on with their lives.
@@HybridGib this is why I differentiate between creationists and their ilk. My grandma is a devout Christian, and she 100% follows the love your neighbor like you love yourself rule (not in the "I despise everything about you, but I still love you" way). Plenty of christians haven't actually read the bible and are christians, just because that's what most people are in their area.
You can, and it's enlightening to watch someone do it. Yes, in the end there may be someone left behind, but that's on them. Stubbornness isn't a virtue when you're wrong.
Reminds me of a meme I once saw. Jesus knocks on your door. Jesus: "Let me in!" You: "Why?" Jesus: "So I can save you!" You: "Save me from what?" Jesus: "From me if you don't let me in!"
@@TimLondonGuitarist nah,he has his own channel with dealing with science deniers.. i think it's just his way of dealing with these people. I do like matt's way of dealing with these people. The desperately need a reality check
@@eh9618 I checked Forrest's channel yesterday & looked at the 1st vid: he spends 20 minutes slamming some idiotic anti-evolution 'presentation' by some idiotic 2 persons, waste of time, just ignore them
Caught? Many religious apologists believe their gods want them to be as dumb as possible, so they try to take advantage of every opportunity to show how dumb they can be.🙈
He clearly wasn't calling to actually have a discussion. He just wanted to assert what he thinks is right and he doesn't care about the evidence to the contrary
He explains it like he's talking to a child (given his profession it makes sense and given the person he responded to it also makes sense) I feel like Forrest would be good for an introduction into evolution, Aron Ra is where you go once you got the basics down.
@@blastortoise go watch his own channel my friend, Forrest Valkai has changed my life forever and i will never thank him enough, because i understand him and i analyzed him... I know, i think to know too many things
I feel so sorry for Jay, clearly he believes the fairy tales his parents told him as a kid, and he never grew out of it like the rest of us did. It's sad really, to see an (I would assume) adult man making life decisions based on what he think his imaginary friend would want him to do. I can't imagine the abuse this guy has been through to be so utterly mentally broken.
I feel sorry for the host for having to put up with such an ignoramus! In my country we say: “si se cae de frente, come yerba”😂 (loosely translated as he’s as dumb as cattle)
Jay literally bounced back and forth between like 3 entirely different questions with Star Formation, Evolution, and General Relativity and said its all the same thing. That goes to show hes not willing to learn at all, I'm genuinely shocked that 1) you guys had the patience to do this whole call, 2) I had the patience to listen to the whole call.
He's PROFOUNDLY lost, and yet he holds onto some false sense of being fully up to speed and ready to win big at the battle of wits. It's truly sad to see a person who is so lost. It would be funny if it were fictional, just from sheer absurdity, but this is a real person who is expected to navigate through the real world.
There is little chance of educating one so profoundly willfully ignorant, but the reason to continue the call is to educate others who might be listening, and willing to listen.
11:35 is the best answer I’ve heard to the question posed to Athiests “don’t you feel bad for leading people away from religion and into hell?” FUQIN EPIC @Forrest Valkai ❤️
@@johnrain7308 the current universe came to be as a result of something we do not know. Whether it was merely a reexpansion after a previous universe collapsing or a totally different state is not known. To assume it was created by a conscious mind is shallow and unfounded. An analogy can be as simple as fart. A fart is the result of swallowed air, fermentation of organic matter and production of gas from bacteria. Was the a fart consciously created?
Forrest is one of the best things to have happened to the show. Clear assertive educated expression of science that is very much needed in the world right now.
In science, even a hypothesis is based on observed data. Religious fairy tales are based on old books, which means they’ll never rise to the level of hypothesis or theory in science.
@@saiyanfang1047 No. A hypothesis is an idea which can be tested. If it fails the tests it is thrown out. If it passes the tests and the results can be replicated, it then becomes a theory.
@@Stoater1 Not quite, but you're on the right track. A scientific LAW describes an observed PATTERN of some kind. A scientific THEORY in addition offers: 1) a description or model of the MECHANISM that would account for the observed pattern 2) HYPOTHESES or predictions about what we could expect to find if the theory were in fact correct Hypotheses in science don't really stand on their own. They're not simply "ideas that can be tested." For example, it's not properly a hypothesis for me to say, "If I spill water on my shirt, it will become darker where it's wet." (It's a pretty good prediction, but it's not a hypothesis.) For it to be a hypothesis, it would have to explain by what mechanism the shirt becomes darker. It reflects less light, sure. But HOW does being wet make something reflect less efficiently? A good hypotheses will predict not only when the effect of darkening will happen but also when it won't. And in so doing, it supports and elsborates some aspect of the theory from which it's derived.
I just subbed to this channel because I'm seeing Forrest appears more and more. He is well-spoken, very knowledgeable, and he keeps his cool during contentious calls. Absolutely awesome to see him at work!
You've never seen it! You've never seen it! Ever seen any God doing something? A miracle? Angels? Demons? Dragons? This kind of stupidity never seizes to amaze me...
I have never seen a fish turn into a human, and you have never seen Jesus rise from the dead. If you claim that means a fish can't turn into a human, then you must also accept that this means Jesus could not have risen from the dead. So where does that put you? It really is that simple. They are simply proving themselves wrong, by their own metric, if they use the argument "you've never seen it".
@@MrTheclevercat You're wrong. Well, you're not exactly wrong about your conclusion, but you're wrong about your initial statement. When someone uses the argument that I presented, then they ARE proving themselves wrong BY THEIR OWN METRIC. Now, you are correct that those are not MY metrics. But if you want someone to understand that they're wrong, you can't use YOUR metrics to prove them wrong. That would be similar to a christian trying to prove that god exists by pointing to the bible. What you have to do, is to show them that BY THEIR OWN METRICS, they are wrong. That they are essentially proving themselves to be wrong, by how they are arguing their point.
I love it when a theist is faced with a strong point, and they try to get out of answering it. The "you weren't there" argument had me screaming at my phone, "bitch, YOU weren't there!" 🤬
"Actually, you are..." God damn does the public school education in this country SUCK. We really need to stop hamstringing our teachers. It is alarming that so many people here are so aggressively and willfully ignorant. This is run of the mill elementary school education where I'm from in the states, thankfully. FFS, man... Usually, I just feel sorry for these callers, but this guy really pissed me off for some reason. And I think it's because we could be so much farther along in our development if people like this weren't holding us back.
Hey, man. The public education system here in the states isn't /ALL/ bad. I was raised in a very religious town, attended public school there and still I know how to think critically and make deductions based off of irrefutable evidence. Granted, the public school system isn't all sunshine and rainbows, but these types of mindsets are not necessarily a product of that system. It generally tends to be about upbringing and environment.
@@schwiftysouls5471 Hey, Schwifty. Hope you're well! Nah, I understand it's not all equally bad. We're a country of 340 million people, so it would be difficult for anything that involves every single one of us at some point in our lives to be equally anything across the board. But compared to some other countries I've had the honor of visiting, our system is almost unique in the developed world for how poorly it's handled. I'm from Fairfield Country, Connecticut. We literally have the best rated schools in the country, second only to some schools in Massachusettes. Yet our system is still at the mercy of special interests in a way you just wouldn't see in places like, say, Iceland. Our students are #1 in nothing except confidence and our teachers are threatened should they entertain any thoughts of trying to go rogue and actually teach in a way that's beneficial to their students. Our teachers are forced to participate in a system that isn't set up to benefit the students so much as it's set up to make us good little obedient, patriotic worker drone consumers that can be exploited for profit and labor later in life. To those special interests, our value only exists in our ability to fatten their pockets and they really couldn't give a damn about anything else. And it works so well for those purposes that, due to our conditioning, the powers that be don't even try to hide it. Most of us aren't going to challenge them on it. Most of us aren't mentally equipped to even notice something's off.
The transparent dishonesty is amazing. Wont answer simple questions and when finally given the evidence he claims he wanted he doesnt acknowledge a single thing said and just jumps off to his big finisher of hell. I am so happy that he held the dishonest theist down to answering that question. Its one of those questions that would have to forced most rational people to understand the failure in that approach. Once the person realized he could no longer ignore the obvious problem with his position, he had to give in and switch tactics to asking a question he already knows he will ignore the answer to.
USA is falling apart because it has drifted from the beliefs our forefathers. The ones who wrote the constitution. "In God we trust" was what they believed. If you don't like what our forefathers stood for you could always find a country that believes there is no God to trust and move there. One does not have to actually see God create the universe to believe it. You and I are the evidence. Scientist can't even cure the common cold and they want us to believe that they know where life began.
When someone asks if I can turn a rock into a human being, I already know that this person is not playing with a full deck of cards. I've been a conscious Atheist for the best part of four decades and the stupidity of the questions apologists come up with to 'trick' Atheists into admitting defeat never seem to get any better.
Yeah, you can tell they've listened to their creationist and are parroting the same stuff. They haven't seen their god either and yet they think it's a gotcha to ask that dumb question about witnessing evolution in real time 🙄.
Funny, I was just watching Neil de Grasse Tyson speak to this. He said that this phenomenon is the result of two factors. On one hand, it's a point of pride to live in a country that supports free speech, but on the other, it's a national embarrassment that the country doesn't set higher standards for education.
I take comfort in the idea that even if this bozo could find his way to a voting booth, unless the voter registration form consists of "What is your name?" And he's allowed multiple tries to get it right, there's no way he will ever fill out a ballot.
Q: Neglecting air resistance, if a cannon 300 m from the base of a vertical wall fires a cannonball at an elevation of 30 degrees with a velocity of 400 m/s, at what height above the ground will the cannonball strike the wall? Jay: God only knows.
Forrest you fucking ROCK! I learned so much from you explaining to that child mind of a man how beautiful science is. Thank you and thank you to AXP. ❤
To be fair to Jay, that was his point. He has faith that God created the universe, because he didn't personally witness it. He thinks that because we didn't witness the creation of the universe either, anything we believe is faith-based as well. He's trying to equate those two things. Unfortunately for Jay, he can't seem to understand that when you have evidence for your position, you're not using faith anymore. Faith-based positions don't have proof backing them up, or else they wouldn't be faith. Therefore, you can't equate the two beliefs; one uses faith, one uses evidence. They are not the same.
One does not have to actually see God create the universe to believe it. You and I are the evidence. Scientist can't even cure the common cold and they want us to believe that they know where life began.
@@paulgemme6056 I am evidence my parents had intercourse. As for "proof" of how the universe was created, you have no better evidence than Christians or Norse mythology or Islam or Hindus. You have a claim, with no better evidence than other.
@@TheKrossRoads Plus, even if he discounts the theory of evolution, all it can do is just that. He still won’t be able to show that creationism is any less ridiculous. If anything he’s effectively saying creationism is just as ridiculous as his idea of evolution.
Yeah, the double standard that is being used by these people is remarkable. They can believe anything they want, but science is bad, because prove .... prove, prove doesn't prove anything !
Forrest makes the exact argument I love to imagine in my head would convince people or at least cause them to think. And yet - the caller simply won't answer the question until finally pinned down and then just tells everyone they're going to hell. Flips the board when checkmated. Disappointing but unsurprising. Well done Forrest.
He was reduced to threats of Hell, which is what every Christian resorts to when their arguments are totally refuted. If you can convince them with logic, then try to scare them into believing.
As Jay kept repeating, "You haven't seen it," I realized I've never seen a plane crash. I do have enough evidence to convince me such events happen, but I've never seen a plane crash, nor have I directly observed the wreckage of a plane crash.
I've never seen a God create anything, nor do I think the writers of the Bible made a good case for anyone today to claim they saw a God create anything either. The writer of Genesis doesn't even say God "told him" how creation occurred.
@@natlegend USA is falling apart because it has drifted from the beliefs our forefathers. The ones who wrote the constitution. "In God we trust" was what they believed. If you don't like what our forefathers stood for you could always find a country that believes there is no God to trust and move there. One does not have to actually see God create the universe to believe it. You and I are the evidence. Scientist can't even cure the common cold and they want us to believe that they know where life began.
“A rock can’t turn into a human!”
“Nobody is arguing that.”
“Well actually you are! Uh uh uh uh uh uh.”
This guy is an absolute gold star asset to his team.
Kent Hovid victim.
That guy must be a Kent Hovind cult member... the whole rock turn into a human BS.
He has a script, and he doesn't know how to deal with people who don't follow the script.
@@arohk4415 Definitely a student of Bent Bovine.
@@arohk4415
I think he IS Kent Hovid
I love the “you’ve never seen it” argument. Did the caller see god create the earth in 7 days?
Umm, actually… He created the world in 6 days, and rested on the 7th. Everyone knows this, because we saw…
Never mind ;)
A religious argument needs no proof, it requires faith.
A scientific argument requires proof. True science upon it’s own merit is only conjecture and theory without definitive proof. Hence the repetition of the experiments and outcomes.
👍👍👍
The GOD GOONS DONT need to see ANYTHING, Gods WORD is good enough for them. When god days he did everything in 6 days thats good enough for them.
But what about stoning your children to death for disobeying you, god said that as well, DIDNT HE.
God also CREATED EVIL, ISAIAH 45:7, apparently we thinking people don’t understand when god is just joking and when he is serious.
@@stevenbatke2475 where did you see it? in your imagination?
Jay may not have come into existence from a rock, but he sure does have the intelligence of one.
Some rocks are brighter lol
You are mean to rocks ................
I’m a rock and I find your comment offensive.
Lol
I am a rock.
I am an Iiiiisland.
"Do you have to watch a murder happen..."
I'm watching one right now.
"So you can't turn a rock into a human?"
Correct, you can't create a human the way the bible describes, yes
sure you can with "MAGIC"
*Jazz hands*
@@darkira2129 I like ur pfp
This is always the case. They always attack the "universe from nothing" point, but that's their own point. Their god is the one who apparently looked at the void and magicked reality into it.
Poor old Jay, nature can’t create life from a rock, correct Neddy, Forrest never said it could but Jay has no problem with his mythical being, creating a human from dust.
Talk about not being able to see the ‘Forrest’ for the trees!
Having Forrest in a conversation with Jay is like using a volcano to cook chicken nuggets
Utter overkill? XD
More than done after 10 seconds?
Nice 👍
That's a little rude. Chicken nuggets don't deserve this disrespectful analogy.
Fanboy you gay for this guy or what? All top comments are praising this guy. he quotes from an experiment in the 50s abiogenesis field has been dead for over 50 years but he should have been more transparent about the damn experiment or mentioned a more recent study. any biologist should know why the miller experiment actually proves life didn’t start out this way because they are forced to take biochemistry and organic chemistry. Yes, it all follows simple laws of physics which is why we can’t even replicate it with our vast intelligence and tools. Doesn’t take much to be a TH-cam athiest
Well, he says "You cannot create life out of a rock!" but believes that man was created from a handful of dirt, which often includes rocks.
Dirt is just ground up rock
@@kellydalstok8900 No, it's not
Outstanding!
In his defense, that would be the difference between “you” and “god”. From his beliefs, God can make man out of dirt/rocks. It’s a powerful thing to have on your side of the argument: the omnipotent omniscient being that can explain anything about anything.
The Pooz That’s true! And as soon as they can demonstrate direct evidence of God and his powers, they’ll be good to go!
"I would feel good about the fact that I taught the truth as best as I understood the truth. And I wasn't led astray or convinced by threats".
Such an amazing response.
Forrest is a rock star! Please have him on as much as possible. Amazing clarity on complex subject matter. Thank you!
Couldn't have said it better JC!
he's awesome!
Came here to say the exact same thing.
THIS!!!!
Way to go Forrest. The man was on fire, figuratively. Then he'll be on fire literally during judgement day. You go, Forrest!
Now I truly understand the term "Painfully Stupid",thanks to Jay.
@Account NumberEight sadly my brain was rotten severely
@Account NumberEight I got a minor nose bleed.
@Account NumberEight the fact these ppl vote and breed is just horrifying
@@machetedonttweet1343 I got one probably from facepalming myself too much
'Gleefully stupid' is the term that came to mind for me. It's always amazing to me how non self conscious the gleefully ignorant are; they seem to talk the most and loudest.
I yelled “bingo” out loud when he said “you’ve never seen a monkey turn into a person”. Jay completed my bad theist arguments card.
That "argument" is so poor and shows such a FUNDAMENTAL misunderstanding of what evolution is. You may as well blurt out "I have no idea how this works! Other people told me they have no idea how it works, so it can't work!" Just as effective.
Or, there is only evidence and no proof.
Can there be evolution without the big bang theory?
Two different theories.
@@stevetrejo3737 Yes there can be.
So, is one theory fact and one theory false?
Please, expound.
@@stevetrejo3737 Well, the Big Bang doesn’t have any bearing on whether evolution is true. A theory is a term commonly conflated with guessing. A theory is a hypothesis that is supported by evidence and represents the best model for what we observe. Theory is synonymous with fact.
Man that murder trial analogy is mint!
This caller just would not listen to anything he was told, he was so stubborn and sure he was right there was little point arguing with him.
Forrest is such a nice guy, no doubt about it. But to me he is wasting his time. Arguing with idiots is more or less pointless.
It may not be pointless if you can demonstrate to a few others that the man is talking out of his backside and should be given credence whatsoever!
Jay made an ass out of himself while Forrest elegantly, elowuently gave his receipts at each turn.
This isn't about Jay, it's doing a service to anyone actually willing to listen.
I've always wondered, is a wolf turning into a dog proof of evolution? Or is that something else since they're still canines of a sort?
@@Here_is_WaldoCaninae aka Canines, includes wolves, dogs, foxes, jackals, coyotes, Bbush dogs and others. There's plenty of evolution that has gone on there.
Forrest absolutely killed it here. Succinct and intelligent, AND patient enough to deal with a pretty stubborn caller. Great convo, looking forward to seeing more from him.
The caller wasn't stubborn, he was a moron.
He's the new Richard Dawkins
He is far more patient than I could have been.
He's not trying to be superior, because he understands he isn't inherently superior. That's the domain of religiousness. He's merely well-educated, and he understands not everyone can spend years learning about the particulars and merits of stellar nucleosynthesis and abiogenesis. Some of us have to bag groceries, fix plumbing, dig building foundations, and pick up the trash. Science communicators like Forrest Valkai are doing their best to bring understanding of science to people like us so that we aren't so easily controlled and manipulated by people using surface-level thinking and logical fallacies. It's one of the very few benefits offered by social media.
Damn first 5 top comment are self congratulatory circle jerks . Sheeple you all are sheeple he didn’t say anything they don’t indoctrinate you with in your undergraduate years as a science major. It doesn’t require much to be a TH-cam atheists cuz you’ll get a following from everybody looking for their substitute for church. Wake up do two years as an undergrad in science and you’ll see this guy is no genius.
8:45 Forrest is awesome - "we will not move on until you answer this question" is the right way to handle this kind of argument.
Exactly
Some people you can’t move on with even if they answer the question.🤡
It’s so telling that someone is being dishonest when they refuse to answer simple direct questions
Yep. Matt in particular has gotten a lot of grief from people for insisting that callers properly address, show an understanding of, defend or concede points before moving on with a discussion. That not only seems like reasonable, but necessary expectations to me.
but they always have stupid people on
I'm only 2 minutes in and I'm loving Forrest's quick shut down answers to the obviously leading questions
He is a very impressive guy, quick-witted and knowledgeable.
He is very to the point.
Perfect antidote to some of these theists.
He is very sharp. I loved that he pointed out how monstrous a god would have to be to kill people for not believing in him. That part slaps, I wish all of my theist friends would watch that.
@@Pancakegr8 You cannot live in the Neighborhood if you don't believe the Neighborhood exists. Inside the Neighborhood are all the essentials to live. Outside the Neighborhood, none of them exist, so the obvious will happen if you stay outside. God doesn't kill unbelievers. They perish. Up to you to seek the door which others have already found and are trying to point you to. YOU have created the 'monster' scenario to try to negate your own responsibility in the whole matter. John 3 16 invites you to come into the Neighborhood and have life everlasting.
@@wwlib5390 Ah, John 3:16 you say? That's one of the most cherry-picked verses in the buybull. It is a wolf in sheeps clothing. Let's examine the verse:
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life"
Since this verse comes from the buybull, it would be remiss to not point out this contradiction.:(1 John plainly states: “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.” So, on the one hand we are told God loves the world only to be again told for Christians not to love the world. Since, in both cases the Greek word here is κόσμον, one is fed a flat out contradiction especially in light of the statement of Jesus “Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” Perfection is not contradiction!
Secondly, if God really loves the world, he would not have destroyed it in the flood of Noah. Love and destruction are antonyms.)
Second contradiction: "that He gave His one and only Son", (In Genesis 6:2 we are clearly told: “that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.” Just as the Hebrew states: בְנֵי־הָאֱלֹהִים וַיִּרְאוּ God already had “sons” plural! So one must wonder, even if the Hellenistic Greek writer of John did not understand the Hebrew text, he surely had the LXX which clearly states “ןἱ ץἱןὶ פןῦ טוןῦ”. While Christians get all choked up about God giving his only son, Jebus, they need to read and believe their Bibles more!)
Let's consider the implications of this verse. God had to sacrifice his son to prove his love for the world. Really? Kill your child to show love? That's immoral and despicable. And it wasn't even a sacrifice, Jebus came back to life! He gave up his weekend.
"that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life"
This is a conditional promise. You have to believe in Jebus in order not to perish.
The love is conditional. God's love is conditional, like an abusive partner.
Conditional love doesn’t feel very nice. In fact, it doesn’t always feel like love at all. When someone loves us conditionally, it means that they put terms, restrictions, or rules on the giving of their love. While a person can have feelings of deep care or affection for you, their love is conditional if it feels like you have to earn it. Additionally, conditional love often vanishes during difficult times. We can perhaps term this “fairweather love,”
Man! This Jay is an example of the types of minds I am so tiered of communicating with.
Tired too
Tired too
Jay is a prime example of someone whose mind has been exposed to a life time of religious indoctrination.
Jay is most likely an Honor Graduate from Hovind's School of Science.
Forrest is a prime example of someone who has been exposed to Atheist indoctrination.
Indoctrination is what's wrong with this whole world! Jay is the epitome of the religious indoctrination of the world. This has been ingrained in our society from war, killing off people that will not accept that indoctrination and forcing children and adults to continue the cycle because of religion and it's wish to not give up the power they have amassed over the centuries!!
@@mlblja Atheist indoctrination is what's wrong with this whole world
@@robinrobyn1714 I don't push atheism on you or anyone else. I have a problem with religion necause many of you folks try so hard to convert anyone you see. Leave it out of our government. It is not offensive to me for you to practice your religion. I have a very steady moral compass in spite of having been raised christian. I've seen to many people misrepresent the bible. I don't believe we should be living by 2000+ year old manuscript because of the time period it was written and the many times it's been changed.
Who can listen to Forrest for 2 minutes and not realize he’s a GENIUS and HE KNOWS what he’s talking about.
I will admit that the first time I saw Forrest, I wasn't sure if he was legit or if he was pulling the Ben Shapiro routine of talking fast, using big words, confidence in his correctness, analogies to somewhat disparate fields (murder trials) as a basis for his argument, etc. There's a certain type of conman who sounds just like Forrest, and I wasn't sure if he was one of them.
Turns out he isn't, but I couldn't tell right away.
@@chrisgrill6302 sounds like she has a crush XD
@@chrisgrill6302 🍑💦
Unintelligent people
Because he hasn't SEEN IT CAN'T YOU SEE
😂😂
The sad part is that people like Jay are Parents, Voters, Lawmakers in the USA. He couldn't even answer a single question. I'm subscribed to Forrest channel. Definitely a great addition to this lineup.
Whilst I probably have to agree, I sincerely hope that he isn't a parent and in his current "status" NEVER becomes one.
Personally, I'm not sure he'd be able to work out where all the "ingredients" go..lol.
It’s honestly dangerous that these ppl are able to vote and have children
He could not even stay on a single thread of his argument.
@@dancedecker unfortunately it doesn’t take make intelligence to figure that out lol
Obviously I do agree and yes, we live in hope. Lol
Forrest..i woud have used the word 'stupid' with this kind of person but you are really superb in handling the caller. Bravo.
As hominems makes it look like Forrest doesn’t have a good argument. I don’t want them going off on a tangent about how I’m making fun of them so I just stick to the argument even if the person calls me stupid.
@@Jambuc829 do you.... not understand what ad hominems are?
please dont misidentify fallacious arguments
As soon as someone says evolution is just a theory, I stop talking science with them because nothing can be accomplished talking to the equivalent of a flat Earther.
Same. Specifically if they started asking how the universe started without a creator. I just immediately concede by saying "Yes, there may be a creator. But how can you prove yours is the right one?"
The goal is make them talk about their holy book then unleash every fallacies, god's unjust decisions, bigotries, contradictions, and errors in their book. Most people tend to show eagerness to listen and learn about science discussions once their fairy tale has been demolished.
Oh marvelous, another twit with selective hearing. Is it really too much to ask for a caller to respond to the actual statement that was sent instead of whatever b******* they cooked up on their head?
can't argue with that.
It’s the same thing they do with gravity. “It’s just a theory” so they can SAY the earth is flat because they know they can’t prove it.
The moment I heard him say that no one ever saw a monkey turning to a human I immediately thought that this guy either has to be a troll or a total imbecile............ Which now that I think of it is not necessarily mutually exclusive.
The amount of patience Forrest has is amazing
Nothing screams I'm an idiot louder than the phrases "have you seen it?" And "it's just a theory"
Any time a theist says “have you seen it?” Ask them “have you seen your god? “ if they answer yes advise them to get help (
@@steveswangler6373 exactly!
That’s the Ken Ham’s school of theology. “We’re you there?”
@@steveswangler6373 “Have you seen the universe and everything being created?”
"I just bought this cool NFT"
I loved the way this character went on and on refusing to answer Forrest's question about evidence in a murder trial, and then had the gall to accuse Forrest of avoiding his question. Did he actually think anyone would be bluffed by this?
I didn't know Forrest could be so quick and sharp on the Atheist Experience
You should watch his channel, if you do it wouldn't be a surprise
@@nathanmckenzie904 Forrest is amazing! Seriously one of my absolute favorite content creators. It's super cool to see him engage in real-time conversation and still end up on top
I have been an activist (different topic but still an activist) for a long time. After a while you have heard the same statements a thousand times. So you are prepared for the vast majority of "arguments" because you have heard them over and over and over again.
He's so smart....
@@nathanmckenzie904 This. Forrest is absolutely brilliant and ironically probably more caring, understanding, and philanthropic than any Christian you'll ever meet.
The moment he brought up evolution, then immediately the Big Bang theory and followed it with abiogenesis, I knew exactly how this call would go. And he conflated all 3 in the matter of 15 seconds. He behaved exactly how I knew he would and committed every logical fallacy that I knew he would. Many of these theists are so predictable.
It's basically a script, there's dozens of places people can get "training" on how to "debate" atheists but they're usually made by people who don't actually know any atheists or actual science.
It sounds like he's been listening to Kent Hovind "teach science" despite not knowing the difference between the big bang, stellar and planetary formation, abiogenesis, and evolution.
I know forrest knows his stuff and knows it quite well, but it is a completely different skill to be able to debate these points and come across as clear and rational. Very well done Forrest
A good person that changed my life forever
Bro i watched Forrest's videos a few years ago and he converted me atheist because of how much sense he makes 😂. I swear any christian just needs to watch his Reacteria series and if their honest with themselves, will convert.
How is Forrest so patient?! I would've straight up been so furious with all the repititive nonsense from the caller
Because he considers his responses to be .............NOTHING :P
Jay: "OK Mr. smart guy. Well I'm going to ask you a bunch of questions that don't make sense, in a real aggressive way, so I can try and get a gotcha and satisfy my delusions"
Forrest is a way better person than most of us. Thank you for being patient, we couldn't be
Study Christianity for five years. It teaches nothing “but” patience.
@@stevetrejo3737 man really watched that complete carnage in the video then came down to the comments to defend Christianity huh?
Not defending Christianity, analyzing the perspective truth verses hypotheses.
It seems both sides claim the evidence is there, but have no idea of what real proof is.
The priest and the scientists have the evidence, and have studied it. The rest of us follow with a bind faith that suits our emotions.
As for Christianity, there are plenty of followers that are scientists, but there are very science followers, including the original poster, will to perform a scientific experiment to prove or disprove, to themselves Christianity is not the best way to carry on.
Or any religion for that matter.
Science is very simple, if you really believe it.
…the perspective “of” truth…
…very few science followers…
Should have proof read it first. Not very scientific, l know.
I love this guy Forrest. I hope we see a lot of him in the future.
Go subscribe to his channel if you haven’t already.
Dude Valkai is a beast.
He is a charismatic and passionate young man. I’ve been following him since the beggining
Hes got a lot of debunking creationism videos on his channel, good stuff
I literally just subscribe to forrest because he was so brilliant here
Forest:"I'm going answer all your questions as honestly as I can."
Caller:"You're all still going to hell though."
There's no hate like religious love
Wow. Interesting comment (in a good way)
pretty sure the quote is christian love but idk
@@dwally123 honestly, I'd say this is probably a better version. Christianity isn't the only religion that promises eternal torment
Forrest gained some major respect from me here. Respect given where none is deserved. Truly shows he cares about people learning the truth.
Because that indoctrinated poor guy needed some respect and help, so Forrest gave him more than a chance because Forrest has proven to me multiple times in many different videos that he's a really good person, no one is perfect, because perfection can't be defined
The only problem is that he was trying to educate a rock.
I particularly love how he has an answer for every question a theist could possibly ask him, he's golden
Love your post Joey. This guy may not learn, but someone listening sure will
Science: here are the facts, what conclusion can we derive from it?
Creationism: here's the conclusion, what facts can we derive from it?
The caller's internal monologue:
"I have no idea what Forrest is talking about. What do I do?"
"Stop listening! Keep repeating the same thing over and over again, that usually works."
"Great idea, me! You never let me down!"
My favorite part of these interactions is when the host offers an excellent response/rubuttal and the only thing the crazy caller can do is stumble onto another topic to distract from their ignorance or stupidity.
Ok but what about STELLAR evolution
Sounded like he was going through a list of questions without listening to the response. I dont understand the point of that.
@@shinobi-no-bueno
Them evilutionists are tryin to steel MUH jeans!
@@grantwing4942
I can get writing stuff down,ahead of time (or during) a call, but people trying to use a script just don't understand how quickly a conversation can break free of it. I guess they lack confidence? Intelligence? Honesty? I dunno.
I must say I loved the part where he implied scientists were trying to make a big bang! LOL
I loved that they held him down to that one question. Jay Kept trying to move on to other things but Forrest nailed him to answer the question. And the sad thing, Jay just waited for his turn and didn't listen
Jay employed a classic "Gish Gallop." He had his arguments lined up in such a manner as to switch directions as soon as the last question was asked and answered. Forrest is answering questions about abiogenesis and the next thing out of Jay's mouth is Einstein's Theory of Relativity. By then, Forrest is like, "I'm on to you, pal!" When the classic, "have you seen.." and "where's the evidence?" lines come out, Forrest shuts him down pronto quicky. Even Jim Barrows is kicked back on his boat-on-the-water set, enjoying that take-down!
There's just no point in trying to explain complex ideas or present evidence to someone if they can't even demonstrate an understanding of how "knowing" things works. If they're starting off from a position of refusing to learn anything after asking questions that demonstrate a fundamental lack of basic understanding of the topics, no useful communication can take place.
Jay didn’t even wait, his mouth was moving as soon as Forrest would begin his answer. If Jay believes in a god, he should recognize that he was given ears to mouth in a 2:1 ratio and then proceed to use them in that same proportion.
@@ienjoylife But he has been listening to his … teachers and preachers for all his life, so he must talk now! What if he dies before he’s balanced that out?
You’re right. Jay didn’t appreciate the answer at all. He just ended the conversation with a threat of an unproven hell claim.
Holy crap.... Jay doesnt know ANYTHING.... Thanks for people like Forrest who make learning about all these things so so so much fun.
And there is the dishonesty... theists/creationist ALWAYS resort to dishonesty. They have to.
I have never engaged with a creationist that didn't revert to lying almost instantly.
Forrest’s videos are a wonderful trip. He does a great job to educate in a manner everyone can understand…except creationists.
@Dharma Defender "Might as well rename Christianity "dishonesty"" - or stupidity.
What you just said is called a lie, dude
Atheists offer no hope. Only death, you die, bye, bye see you no more.
God/Jesus offers life. everyone has the right to choose. No religion needed. Just faith, faith alone.
Trying to have an intelligent conversation with someone who is painfully, willfully ignorant on so many unrelated subjects must take so much patience. Bless you.
Poor guy, he's probably been lied to his whole life. I truly hope that he can find someone to sit down and walk him through everything.
exactly or hes a major trolll
Forest is great on this show! He really knows a lot about his field of science
Thank goodness he’s a scientist 🥼🧬🧫🧪
I love how people with little to NO science education will sit here and argue with people who know their shit about the scientific process, like they can "get them" in an argument.
The height of hubris.
People like Turek, Hovind, Hamm, etc. have convinced him that trotting out *their* talking points (which he likely doesn't understand either) will win the argument.
Yeah, he talks about Einstein and a few seconds later he says that nobody has seen a monkey turning into a human.
It's the Dunning Krueger Effect in action
Dunning Kruger the less you know the more confident you are in you opinions
“Just because you don’t understand something doesn’t mean it’s not true”
0:40 "So Evolution is just a theory then"
Me: Hey, it's a Kent Hovind fan.
1:27 "So you can't make life out of a rock?"
Me: HOLY SHIT NO I WAS JOKING!
Also I love that Forrest smiles through the immense amount of frustration in his voice with this literal Kent Hovind parrot. Absolute champion.
*0:37 *1:25
And just like Hovind, the moment he realizes he can't convince you about his believes, he basicly condemns you to Hell.
Another classic example of the detrimental effects of home schooling and religious ignorance on simple minds.
Indeed. It results in cretins like Jay calling in and claiming the Miller-Urey experiment was flawed because they applied electricity, while being too stupid to realise what events such as lightning are.
Not to mention the ever encroaching hell-scape of Christian Fundamentalism that's been injected into the public school system for the last several decades. That, or Jay from Missouri spent too much time in his youth breathing in the fumes from leaded gasoline further destroying his mind.
Atheists offer no hope. Only death, you die, bye, bye see you no more.
God/Jesus offers life. everyone has the right to choose. No religion needed. Just faith, faith alone.
@@paulgemme6056 your argument offers no hope.
For starters, being an atheist doesn’t necessarily imply the person doesn’t believe in an afterlife or reincarnation. Maybe understand a topic first.
As for the second part of your post, it’s all one big baseless claim. You can’t prove a god or old JC can “offer life”. The fact you need to rely of “faith, faith alone” rather proves that. Faith alone is as garbage as the argument you’ve just made.
@@Heathen.Deity. Everyone has a choice. Believe that the creator of universe God/Jesus offers you the free gift of eternal life (to know him) or believe the biggest lie that the father of lies wants everyone or believe there is no one true living God/Jesus.
Jesus bestowed on Jay the bravery to carry on, even when when he was clearly out of his depth, which was about 10 seconds into the call. Praise be 🙏.
Is it brave to be too ignorant to know how dvmb you are?
I respect his curiosity but even after presenting the evidence it seems like Jay still has an agenda to disprove evolution or anything that goes against his YOung earth creationism with little review.
Maybe even before the call.
@@abnerruiz4011 "Curiosity"?
He's trying to ask gotcha questions. He has no interest in the answers... which is why he tries to interrupt so much.
The rest of your comment pretty much addresses this problem, but the first four words make no sense.
@@Mythraen Exactly. It's also why he didn't want to answer the question about accepting evidence. He already knows there's plenty of evidence. If he accepts that evidence is acceptable then that's the same as accepting that he's on the losing side of the conversation. He needs evidence to not matter since he knows his side has none.
i know Forrest did most of the "heavy" lifting with this one but hats off to both of you. thanks for being the voice for those of us who don't have the patience, the knowledge on demand, the working and very fit scientific vocabulary, debating skills etc. guys like you make me proud to be an atheist
I absolutely love Forrest. He just doesn't let callers go on with their bs and still manages to refute them perfectly politely.
I like how Forrest seemed a little more patient than he normally is when he's reacting to creationist videos, at least at the beginning. I do genuinely feel sorry for Jay, though; the psychological impact that comes from being indoctrinating into any religion, let alone Christianity, is quite powerful
I think the way you're brought into the religion also matters because some groups are more controlling and cult-like while others are just "yeah, I'm Christian" and move on with their lives.
@@ragg232 Definitely, yeah. Some Christians are fortunately more open-minded and understanding of others' individuality, and that's good at least.
@@HybridGib this is why I differentiate between creationists and their ilk. My grandma is a devout Christian, and she 100% follows the love your neighbor like you love yourself rule (not in the "I despise everything about you, but I still love you" way). Plenty of christians haven't actually read the bible and are christians, just because that's what most people are in their area.
@@DissedRedEngie Oh yeah, for sure.
You cannot defeat confident stupidity with calm reasonable logic.
You can, but unfortunately only one side realises the battle has been won.
You can, and it's enlightening to watch someone do it.
Yes, in the end there may be someone left behind, but that's on them. Stubbornness isn't a virtue when you're wrong.
@@WhoThisMonkey good point sorry my mistake.
People like this are not deserving to be talked with. They don't want to talk, they just want to fight
Reminds me of a meme I once saw.
Jesus knocks on your door.
Jesus: "Let me in!"
You: "Why?"
Jesus: "So I can save you!"
You: "Save me from what?"
Jesus: "From me if you don't let me in!"
Well done gentlemen. Poor Jay got caught being an idiot....in public. I hope he gets to see this video.
Forrest is new at this so he continues to explain things with good humour. Matt would've told him immediately "you're an idiot" & hung up
@@TimLondonGuitarist Probably right on that. I wonder why theists focus on Matt more. I think it’s because he hurts their feelings.
@@TimLondonGuitarist nah,he has his own channel with dealing with science deniers.. i think it's just his way of dealing with these people. I do like matt's way of dealing with these people. The desperately need a reality check
@@eh9618 I checked Forrest's channel yesterday & looked at the 1st vid: he spends 20 minutes slamming some idiotic anti-evolution 'presentation' by some idiotic 2 persons, waste of time, just ignore them
Caught? Many religious apologists believe their gods want them to be as dumb as possible, so they try to take advantage of every opportunity to show how dumb they can be.🙈
Forrest is a brilliant addition to the AE team and so good to hear him rip theists apart with logic and science.
He clearly wasn't calling to actually have a discussion. He just wanted to assert what he thinks is right and he doesn't care about the evidence to the contrary
Dude! We need Forrest on this channel more. Never heard as simple, understandable, and concise responses to theist questions ever.
He explains it like he's talking to a child (given his profession it makes sense and given the person he responded to it also makes sense) I feel like Forrest would be good for an introduction into evolution, Aron Ra is where you go once you got the basics down.
@@blastortoise go watch his own channel my friend, Forrest Valkai has changed my life forever and i will never thank him enough, because i understand him and i analyzed him... I know, i think to know too many things
I feel so sorry for Jay, clearly he believes the fairy tales his parents told him as a kid, and he never grew out of it like the rest of us did. It's sad really, to see an (I would assume) adult man making life decisions based on what he think his imaginary friend would want him to do. I can't imagine the abuse this guy has been through to be so utterly mentally broken.
Religion can only survive by abusing and traumatizing children. That is the only way to prevent the outgrowing.
Wow!! Forrest is on it 👍🏾🤙🏾
I think Jay is one of the trolls in the comment section.
I feel sorry for the host for having to put up with such an ignoramus! In my country we say: “si se cae de frente, come yerba”😂 (loosely translated as he’s as dumb as cattle)
Religion means never having to grow up.
It's Christians who argue that rocks were turned into a human via a Gollum spell 🤦🏼♀️
Yep,and that the universe came magically from nothing.
Most of these lazy silly excuses came from projection.
Sshhhh, you can't use facts.
@@Julian0101 absolutely 🙋🏼♀️
Well, if you think about it, clay is just.... Soggy rock.
Gollum? Nah. Dr. Steven Strange, M.D. Eye of Agamotto & such.
The “famous last words” bit from Jim is so perfect. 10/10 video, beautifully articulated points from Forrest.
Jay literally bounced back and forth between like 3 entirely different questions with Star Formation, Evolution, and General Relativity and said its all the same thing. That goes to show hes not willing to learn at all, I'm genuinely shocked that 1) you guys had the patience to do this whole call, 2) I had the patience to listen to the whole call.
He's PROFOUNDLY lost, and yet he holds onto some false sense of being fully up to speed and ready to win big at the battle of wits.
It's truly sad to see a person who is so lost. It would be funny if it were fictional, just from sheer absurdity, but this is a real person who is expected to navigate through the real world.
I'm glad they stuck to the call . I learnt alot from Forrest about evolution
You forgot his 4th question, abiogenisis.
@@robsengahay5614 thank you for reminding me that this call was even worse than I remember.
There is little chance of educating one so profoundly willfully ignorant, but the reason to continue the call is to educate others who might be listening, and willing to listen.
11:35 is the best answer I’ve heard to the question posed to Athiests “don’t you feel bad for leading people away from religion and into hell?” FUQIN EPIC @Forrest Valkai ❤️
@@GrimMelvin they can melt
Forrest is the maestro of simple explanations that even young children can understand and creationist find difficult to ignore.
I do suspect that you are underestimating the ability of creationists to ignore facts that a young child could understand.
@@robsengahay5614 on reflection, you may be right.
The universe did not create itself
@@johnrain7308 the current universe came to be as a result of something we do not know. Whether it was merely a reexpansion after a previous universe collapsing or a totally different state is not known. To assume it was created by a conscious mind is shallow and unfounded. An analogy can be as simple as fart. A fart is the result of swallowed air, fermentation of organic matter and production of gas from bacteria. Was the a fart consciously created?
He was a great example of turning living things into a rock for a brain. Great patience guys
I like Forrest he handled Jay like a pro. Great job dude.
Forrest's channel is fantastic. So happy to see him here!
I love it when the hosts don't give the expected responses on their script, but they keep following it as if they did.
The only "NOTHING" that was detected was this callers head space after MRI scan 😵💫
Forrest is my favorite thing to have happened to this show in YEARS!!
He's such a joy to listen to!!
Forrest is one of the best things to have happened to the show. Clear assertive educated expression of science that is very much needed in the world right now.
Forrest with the patience of Job. Big props to you man.
Hypothesis is often confused with Theory by creationists when it comes to the scientific process, especially evolution
On purpose
In science, even a hypothesis is based on observed data. Religious fairy tales are based on old books, which means they’ll never rise to the level of hypothesis or theory in science.
you mean a guess. Hypotheses are way more critical than theory in common tongue
@@saiyanfang1047
No. A hypothesis is an idea which can be tested.
If it fails the tests it is thrown out.
If it passes the tests and the results can be replicated, it then becomes a theory.
@@Stoater1
Not quite, but you're on the right track.
A scientific LAW describes an observed PATTERN of some kind.
A scientific THEORY in addition offers:
1) a description or model of the MECHANISM that would account for the observed pattern
2) HYPOTHESES or predictions about what we could expect to find if the theory were in fact correct
Hypotheses in science don't really stand on their own. They're not simply "ideas that can be tested." For example, it's not properly a hypothesis for me to say, "If I spill water on my shirt, it will become darker where it's wet." (It's a pretty good prediction, but it's not a hypothesis.) For it to be a hypothesis, it would have to explain by what mechanism the shirt becomes darker. It reflects less light, sure. But HOW does being wet make something reflect less efficiently? A good hypotheses will predict not only when the effect of darkening will happen but also when it won't. And in so doing, it supports and elsborates some aspect of the theory from which it's derived.
I just subbed to this channel because I'm seeing Forrest appears more and more. He is well-spoken, very knowledgeable, and he keeps his cool during contentious calls. Absolutely awesome to see him at work!
Forrest and Jim are excellent together. Forrest’s answers in this video are spot on. Awesome!!!
You've never seen it!
You've never seen it!
Ever seen any God doing something? A miracle? Angels? Demons? Dragons?
This kind of stupidity never seizes to amaze me...
I have never seen a fish turn into a human, and you have never seen Jesus rise from the dead.
If you claim that means a fish can't turn into a human, then you must also accept that this means Jesus could not have risen from the dead. So where does that put you?
It really is that simple. They are simply proving themselves wrong, by their own metric, if they use the argument "you've never seen it".
@@MrTheclevercat You're wrong.
Well, you're not exactly wrong about your conclusion, but you're wrong about your initial statement.
When someone uses the argument that I presented, then they ARE proving themselves wrong BY THEIR OWN METRIC.
Now, you are correct that those are not MY metrics. But if you want someone to understand that they're wrong, you can't use YOUR metrics to prove them wrong. That would be similar to a christian trying to prove that god exists by pointing to the bible.
What you have to do, is to show them that BY THEIR OWN METRICS, they are wrong. That they are essentially proving themselves to be wrong, by how they are arguing their point.
Careful with that line of thought. There are plenty of people who will swear up and down that they have personally witnessed acts of god.
@@mojacc Yes, but have they seen their god create the universe? Have they seen Jesus become resurrected? Nah :D
I’ve been listening to the atheist experience for almost twenty years and Jay is the most willfully ignorant person I’ve ever heard on the show.
I love it when a theist is faced with a strong point, and they try to get out of answering it. The "you weren't there" argument had me screaming at my phone, "bitch, YOU weren't there!" 🤬
Jesus last words “you nailed it”…
Pay your waiters
"Actually, you are..." God damn does the public school education in this country SUCK. We really need to stop hamstringing our teachers. It is alarming that so many people here are so aggressively and willfully ignorant. This is run of the mill elementary school education where I'm from in the states, thankfully. FFS, man...
Usually, I just feel sorry for these callers, but this guy really pissed me off for some reason. And I think it's because we could be so much farther along in our development if people like this weren't holding us back.
Sir, I could not agree more. Well said.
Hey, man. The public education system here in the states isn't /ALL/ bad. I was raised in a very religious town, attended public school there and still I know how to think critically and make deductions based off of irrefutable evidence.
Granted, the public school system isn't all sunshine and rainbows, but these types of mindsets are not necessarily a product of that system. It generally tends to be about upbringing and environment.
@@schwiftysouls5471 Hey, Schwifty. Hope you're well! Nah, I understand it's not all equally bad. We're a country of 340 million people, so it would be difficult for anything that involves every single one of us at some point in our lives to be equally anything across the board. But compared to some other countries I've had the honor of visiting, our system is almost unique in the developed world for how poorly it's handled. I'm from Fairfield Country, Connecticut. We literally have the best rated schools in the country, second only to some schools in Massachusettes. Yet our system is still at the mercy of special interests in a way you just wouldn't see in places like, say, Iceland. Our students are #1 in nothing except confidence and our teachers are threatened should they entertain any thoughts of trying to go rogue and actually teach in a way that's beneficial to their students. Our teachers are forced to participate in a system that isn't set up to benefit the students so much as it's set up to make us good little obedient, patriotic worker drone consumers that can be exploited for profit and labor later in life. To those special interests, our value only exists in our ability to fatten their pockets and they really couldn't give a damn about anything else. And it works so well for those purposes that, due to our conditioning, the powers that be don't even try to hide it. Most of us aren't going to challenge them on it. Most of us aren't mentally equipped to even notice something's off.
Omg the murder trial example is brilliant, I'm crying from laughing
“But it’s just a theory… A GOD THEORY aaaaaand CUT”
The transparent dishonesty is amazing. Wont answer simple questions and when finally given the evidence he claims he wanted he doesnt acknowledge a single thing said and just jumps off to his big finisher of hell.
I am so happy that he held the dishonest theist down to answering that question. Its one of those questions that would have to forced most rational people to understand the failure in that approach. Once the person realized he could no longer ignore the obvious problem with his position, he had to give in and switch tactics to asking a question he already knows he will ignore the answer to.
I admire Jay's passionate efforts to not understand what's being explained to him.
USA is falling apart because it has drifted from the beliefs our forefathers. The ones who wrote the constitution. "In God we trust" was what they believed. If you don't like what our forefathers stood for you could always find a country that believes there is no God to trust and move there.
One does not have to actually see God create the universe to believe it. You and I are the evidence. Scientist can't even cure the common cold and they want us to believe that they know where life began.
Forrest Valkai is very good at calling out the caller's bs.
When someone asks if I can turn a rock into a human being, I already know that this person is not playing with a full deck of cards. I've been a conscious Atheist for the best part of four decades and the stupidity of the questions apologists come up with to 'trick' Atheists into admitting defeat never seem to get any better.
Yeah, you can tell they've listened to their creationist and are parroting the same stuff. They haven't seen their god either and yet they think it's a gotcha to ask that dumb question about witnessing evolution in real time 🙄.
Wow, let's just reflect for a minute we live in a society that let's this guy vote. No wonder the USA is falling apart.
Gun ownering, car driving, reproducing...
Funny, I was just watching Neil de Grasse Tyson speak to this. He said that this phenomenon is the result of two factors. On one hand, it's a point of pride to live in a country that supports free speech, but on the other, it's a national embarrassment that the country doesn't set higher standards for education.
I take comfort in the idea that even if this bozo could find his way to a voting booth, unless the voter registration form consists of "What is your name?" And he's allowed multiple tries to get it right, there's no way he will ever fill out a ballot.
@Theism is a lying, racist mental illness. Tyson was correct about philosophy.
@Trans bigot
Red Herring fallacy.
Seriously, can't you do any better than that?
Man, I loved the murder analogy. Very true. Great clip with great information.
Jay is the kind of guy who writes "god did it" for every answer on his science test, and then gets mad when he flunks the class.
Ikr idk how that even explains anything like what was the process
Q: Neglecting air resistance, if a cannon 300 m from the base of a vertical wall fires a cannonball at an elevation of 30 degrees with a velocity of 400 m/s, at what height above the ground will the cannonball strike the wall?
Jay: God only knows.
Perfect example of the less you know the more you are convinced you have all the answers.
Dude. I've never seen Forrest before, but he's instantly one of my all time favorites.
Bloody brilliant mate.
This is probably the best clip I've seen from The Atheist Experience in years. 👏👏👏
Forrest you fucking ROCK! I learned so much from you explaining to that child mind of a man how beautiful science is. Thank you and thank you to AXP. ❤
I read that as you calling him a rock. took me a second
@@derpinator4912 🤣 That's funny. When I read that way, I can see how it could be mistaken at first. It made me laugh.
Jay: "I don't understand the evidence... therefore there must be a god."
This guy never watched God create the universe either.
To be fair to Jay, that was his point. He has faith that God created the universe, because he didn't personally witness it. He thinks that because we didn't witness the creation of the universe either, anything we believe is faith-based as well. He's trying to equate those two things.
Unfortunately for Jay, he can't seem to understand that when you have evidence for your position, you're not using faith anymore. Faith-based positions don't have proof backing them up, or else they wouldn't be faith. Therefore, you can't equate the two beliefs; one uses faith, one uses evidence. They are not the same.
One does not have to actually see God create the universe to believe it. You and I are the evidence. Scientist can't even cure the common cold and they want us to believe that they know where life began.
@@paulgemme6056 I am evidence my parents had intercourse.
As for "proof" of how the universe was created, you have no better evidence than Christians or Norse mythology or Islam or Hindus. You have a claim, with no better evidence than other.
@@TheKrossRoads Plus, even if he discounts the theory of evolution, all it can do is just that. He still won’t be able to show that creationism is any less ridiculous. If anything he’s effectively saying creationism is just as ridiculous as his idea of evolution.
Yeah, the double standard that is being used by these people is remarkable. They can believe anything they want, but science is bad, because prove .... prove, prove doesn't prove anything !
Forrest makes the exact argument I love to imagine in my head would convince people or at least cause them to think. And yet - the caller simply won't answer the question until finally pinned down and then just tells everyone they're going to hell. Flips the board when checkmated. Disappointing but unsurprising. Well done Forrest.
This is one of my favorite clips so far. He gave the evidence in a clear and precise way and the dude basically had nothing to retort with. Ha!
He was reduced to threats of Hell, which is what every Christian resorts to when their arguments are totally refuted. If you can convince them with logic, then try to scare them into believing.
Living proof that a very thick rock turned into a human.
Forrest, you rock! This was beautiful.
As Jay kept repeating, "You haven't seen it," I realized I've never seen a plane crash. I do have enough evidence to convince me such events happen, but I've never seen a plane crash, nor have I directly observed the wreckage of a plane crash.
I've never seen a God create anything, nor do I think the writers of the Bible made a good case for anyone today to claim they saw a God create anything either. The writer of Genesis doesn't even say God "told him" how creation occurred.
Pfft, I've never seen North America. For all I know it doesn't exist.
One does not have to actually see God create the universe to believe it. You and I are the evidence.
@@paulgemme6056 Nah
@@natlegend USA is falling apart because it has drifted from the beliefs our forefathers. The ones who wrote the constitution. "In God we trust" was what they believed. If you don't like what our forefathers stood for you could always find a country that believes there is no God to trust and move there.
One does not have to actually see God create the universe to believe it. You and I are the evidence. Scientist can't even cure the common cold and they want us to believe that they know where life began.
I've never seen a creationist turn into an intelligent human being. I guess therefore it's impossible.
💀💀💀😭
Yes you have. Many of the major TH-cam atheists used to be creationists.
Matt and Aron Ra and Dan Barker were die-hard fundagelical xtians.
@@JFrazer4303 I was having a bit of a joke! at creo expense!
I suppose Matt is proof of that, because he was a hardcore theist who evolved into a smart guy.
I have had salt. Salt is not alive. I incorporated salt into my body. That nonliving salt is now part of my living matter: Nonlife becoming life.