What some folks fail to understand is the same body on body nogi gripping and controls can be executed while wearing a gi...underhooks, overhooks, head n arm, wrist fighting all can be replicated while wearing "pajamas".. the same leglock entries, leg entanglements all can be executed while in a gi...The same can't be said to the opposite.. ignorance is not an excuse....
I just think NO GI is more fun and free flowing, I don't want to have to break nine grips just to move an inch. I do respect GI BJJ and its where I started but currently, I just enjoy NO GI more.
I enjoy both…but “jacketed wrestling” as Greg called it (which is the perfect term) can be found in most wrestling cultures be it Judo, Mongolian Bohk or Irish collar and elbow. This is because grips are a reality of combat/self defense. So, I actually think gi trainjng is practical from a self defense perspective. The sport of “jacketed wrestling” does get gamed, spider/lasso guard isn’t real outside of a long sleeved grappling jacket. I don’t know how many videos I’ve seen of someone grabbing the other person by the collar, yanking them and punching them in the face (be it a hockey fight or a police officer taken by surprise). So, I like a tempered approach to jacketed wrestling, but I do, sometimes, enjoy no gi more.
If you can't hold me in bad positions/submissions in the gi, there ain't no way you can hold me in those positions in no gi. Also, there are thousands more viable techniques in gi than in no gi. If you love jiu jitsu for the puzzle, it's gi all the way. Finally, none of us live forever. In gi, the major force multipliers are the fingers. This naturally slows the game down and allows 50-60 year olds to compete an a more even footing with 20 year olds. But yeah, when I was 25, I was all about no gi too...
Interesting discussion. I started BJJ before it was called BJJ (1995) with the Alliance team out of Atlanta. Back then many professors taught a technique in the gi and then showed the no gi version of this. I often do this with my students as well. Yes, there are some techniques (i.e. any lapel guard or lapel choke) are very specific to the gi and some people will base their entire game on these techniques but that is not the norm. I have always done both. At times I have done more of one than the other. It has always been for me easier to train heavy in the gi and occassionally do a no gi class than the other way around. If you are only doing no gi then transitioning to the gi is much, much harder. Gordon Ryan cannot transition to a gi tournament and do well at the highest levels. But Mica Galvao, the Ruotolo, Marcelo Garcia, Buchecha have all shown that they can go from gi to no gi and be competitive and often beat the highest level no gi competitors. In the end, do what you enjoy the most. You should be having fun with it. God bless!
I think your end examples are misguided. Gordon Ryan did only gi till Brown belt, and chooses not to compete in the gi. Marcelo Garcia has open acknowledged he designed his game to be functional in both gi and NoGi, this allowing him to be able to do both with little transition. The Ruotolo brothers are know for their similar approach and have spent numerous hours in NoGi the past few years. Mica may be an outlier, but he is also like so many modern competitors that focus on Gi or NoGi, depending on what tournament or match is coming up. Chalking up a competitor's success based upon what they wear is a poor metric to go by.
How is it shitting on the GI? I generally don't enjoy having somebody hold onto my collar every single time I make a movement. I get if you're old it makes sense but im 32 & don't feel the need to hang on to every position for dear life. I feel like the GI takes the enjoyment out of BJJ.
Why is no gi better than gi? It isn't, they are equal but for opposite reasons. Anyone who says otherwise is either an idiot or hasn't given the subject enough thought. P.S. Just heard Souders' answer from the video. Yup, it was dumb.
Quite the contrary. Everyone who sticks with you mindset are immune to critical thinking and development of the sport. No they are not equal, nogi is better hands down. More practical, more dynamic, more elegant, more convenient. Everything in nogi can be transferable to gi and not vice versa. Every development of the sport, from leg lock arsenal (which didn't exist 20 years ago) to takedowns have been all developed by the nogi community which also includes newer submissions like the darce, anaconda, tarikoplata etc. Gi is the past, nogi is the future, learn how to adapt. Even Bruce lee was against this traditional mindset and belt system 50 years ago which is holding martial arts back.
@outlawfly664 sure bud, whatever you say. I've only done both for over 20 years, so what do I know? Go back and re-read what I said because you obviously didn't comprehend it. "No gi is better hands down." LOL!!!!! Let me guess, you're an "MMA Bro" who's never touched a gi in his life. Am I right?
@@kingwilly8041 Oh the classic "I've done this for x amount of years" without putting any constructive argument to the table and anyone who disagrees with him and displays critical thinking is an idiot. There's nothing to re-read because your argument is non-existent, now back to the drawing board.
I don’t see why you shouldn’t train both. My school offers both but we prioritize body on body grips/control rather than specializing in gi only grips.
I contend that no-gi grappling is a subset of gi grappling - there's nothing technically you can do in no-gi grappling that you cannot do in the gi, but it is not the case vice-versa. Additionally, there are tons of examples of gi competitors competing at a high level in no gi, but very few examples of any no-gi grapplers slapping on the gi and being highly competitive. For this reason, Gordon Ryan will never be the GoAT, he will always have to asterisk his name as the best no-gi grappler.
@@davidjason2894 Sorry, there's no simplicity in your concepts, only contradictions and lack of critical thinking. So much for understanding life, now back to the drawing board
@@outlawfly664 Congratulations on declaring unearned intellectual high ground. A critical thinker would present an argument, not weakly posture. But you do you.
i do prefer nogi and think it is a purer form of grappling for the above-mentioned reasons, however, gi absolutely has more longevity. its much easier for an older man to start doing gi and get pretty good and you can do it for longer too. nogi is more athletic and therefore more of a young man's game.
Training In both is the ideal. Nothing wrong with gi. Only reason why this is even a topic of conversation is because everyone is getting influenced by certain popular no gi grapplers. But the kings of bjj have medals in both gi and no gi.
Why is it ideal to train both? Training both reduces time spent on the nogi which is far more practical and dynamic, never mind the fact of the redundant information which reduces the personal development in both.
@@outlawfly664 I practice bjj for sport but also love the self defence. I’m not an elite athlete. If you believe there’s no self defence in gi you’re lying to your self. So many more potions to finish someone when both are practiced. Now if you’re an elite no gi grappler than for sure focus your time in your sport. ✌️
@@TBT13977 Compared to nogi, gi is far less practical for self-defense, nogi works under any circumstance, it's actual grappling, limb control while gi has a huge emphasis on kimono grips. Claiming otherwise makes you in denial. Never mind proper clothing as durable as the kimono, do you honestly believe nonsensical techniques like spider guard, worm guard, galaxy guard, collar guard etc works on the streets? In Gi you have more options on paper, not in practice because it's less dynamic, slower paced, more stalling etc.
@@outlawfly664 you realize that you can roll in the gi just the same like no gi right. Minus the escapes because your sweating. Comon bro. If you ever escaped a position or submission because you’re sweaty. It’s not jiujitsu 😂. I know it’s hard the gi. By the way who said anything about playing spider guard in a street fight. And the opponents clothing don’t have to be as strong as a gi. You just don’t know. All good. Not here to teach. If I can stall you I control you. Your problem not mine
@@TBT13977 No you can't. You mean minus the practicality, dynamism (less transitions, and positioning) and pace? Since when do you death grip someones sleeves, collar etc in nogi? So much for rolling the same way. Who are you kidding 😂🤦♂I don't care about jiujitsu, i care about actual grappling which jiujitsu didn't invent, actual grappling being limb control (actual control), real jiujitsu (kimono grips) is for hipsters, hence why nogi is called submission wrestling, two separate sports. If you have actual good techniques in keeping someone in side control or keeping the back, sweating will be no issue, i know it's hard nogi. Imagine have to rely on a kimono in order to control someone or having an easier time to choke someone where the collar is basically a rope around your neck 🤣 Sorry to tell you, but most clothing isn't as durable or constructed as the kimono, a tshirt collar would be ripped in grips, nor is it thick enough for chokes. The beauty about nogi is the fact that it works under every circumstance, no matter the amount of clothing, winter jackets or no jackets etc. Do you know the meaning of stalling? It's not control, but wasting time and doing nothing basically. How do you control someone when stalling from a 50/50 guard in gi? If you consider that to be "control", then that's your problem (actual problem) not mine
Gi is better especially for stand up, no gi stand up is boring comparatively. Also it's more realistic, nobody walks around naked or in skin tights. Unless you are always at the beach or some crap.
@@devonanderson1832 if you try to take someone down by going for the legs or an underhook and they just stiff arm you with a jacket grip you'd realize why it's better to know how to jacket wrestle.
@@dmfaccount1272 I’ve been doing gi for two years and No GI for two. It’s not like I don’t have experience. I just generally don’t enjoy it compared to no gi. That’s just my take.
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
What some folks fail to understand is the same body on body nogi gripping and controls can be executed while wearing a gi...underhooks, overhooks, head n arm, wrist fighting all can be replicated while wearing "pajamas".. the same leglock entries, leg entanglements all can be executed while in a gi...The same can't be said to the opposite.. ignorance is not an excuse....
I like gi, because that is what I'm used to.
I like nogi because doing laundry kinda sucks.
I just think NO GI is more fun and free flowing, I don't want to have to break nine grips just to move an inch. I do respect GI BJJ and its where I started but currently, I just enjoy NO GI more.
I enjoy both…but “jacketed wrestling” as Greg called it (which is the perfect term) can be found in most wrestling cultures be it Judo, Mongolian Bohk or Irish collar and elbow. This is because grips are a reality of combat/self defense. So, I actually think gi trainjng is practical from a self defense perspective. The sport of “jacketed wrestling” does get gamed, spider/lasso guard isn’t real outside of a long sleeved grappling jacket. I don’t know how many videos I’ve seen of someone grabbing the other person by the collar, yanking them and punching them in the face (be it a hockey fight or a police officer taken by surprise). So, I like a tempered approach to jacketed wrestling, but I do, sometimes, enjoy no gi more.
Cool take
Jacketed wrestling is very relevant for ppl in colder climates where most street fights also involve those extra layers anyway
If you can't hold me in bad positions/submissions in the gi, there ain't no way you can hold me in those positions in no gi. Also, there are thousands more viable techniques in gi than in no gi. If you love jiu jitsu for the puzzle, it's gi all the way. Finally, none of us live forever. In gi, the major force multipliers are the fingers. This naturally slows the game down and allows 50-60 year olds to compete an a more even footing with 20 year olds. But yeah, when I was 25, I was all about no gi too...
Good take...
I actually prefer no-gi because I don't have to put my fingers through as much trauma, but I can totally see your point.
Interesting discussion. I started BJJ before it was called BJJ (1995) with the Alliance team out of Atlanta. Back then many professors taught a technique in the gi and then showed the no gi version of this. I often do this with my students as well. Yes, there are some techniques (i.e. any lapel guard or lapel choke) are very specific to the gi and some people will base their entire game on these techniques but that is not the norm. I have always done both. At times I have done more of one than the other. It has always been for me easier to train heavy in the gi and occassionally do a no gi class than the other way around. If you are only doing no gi then transitioning to the gi is much, much harder. Gordon Ryan cannot transition to a gi tournament and do well at the highest levels. But Mica Galvao, the Ruotolo, Marcelo Garcia, Buchecha have all shown that they can go from gi to no gi and be competitive and often beat the highest level no gi competitors. In the end, do what you enjoy the most. You should be having fun with it. God bless!
I think your end examples are misguided. Gordon Ryan did only gi till Brown belt, and chooses not to compete in the gi. Marcelo Garcia has open acknowledged he designed his game to be functional in both gi and NoGi, this allowing him to be able to do both with little transition. The Ruotolo brothers are know for their similar approach and have spent numerous hours in NoGi the past few years. Mica may be an outlier, but he is also like so many modern competitors that focus on Gi or NoGi, depending on what tournament or match is coming up. Chalking up a competitor's success based upon what they wear is a poor metric to go by.
Didn’t all the “nogi grapplers” loose to “gi grapplers” in the last WNO….
I am genuinely interested in Greg's response to this! Great discussion
It amazes me how hardcore nogi guys will take any opportunity to shit on the gi, yet demand respect when it comes to nogi...
How is it shitting on the GI? I generally don't enjoy having somebody hold onto my collar every single time I make a movement. I get if you're old it makes sense but im 32 & don't feel the need to hang on to every position for dear life. I feel like the GI takes the enjoyment out of BJJ.
In canada we wear thick jackets.
No gi is good for summer:)
Why is no gi better than gi? It isn't, they are equal but for opposite reasons. Anyone who says otherwise is either an idiot or hasn't given the subject enough thought.
P.S. Just heard Souders' answer from the video. Yup, it was dumb.
Quite the contrary. Everyone who sticks with you mindset are immune to critical thinking and development of the sport. No they are not equal, nogi is better hands down. More practical, more dynamic, more elegant, more convenient. Everything in nogi can be transferable to gi and not vice versa. Every development of the sport, from leg lock arsenal (which didn't exist 20 years ago) to takedowns have been all developed by the nogi community which also includes newer submissions like the darce, anaconda, tarikoplata etc. Gi is the past, nogi is the future, learn how to adapt. Even Bruce lee was against this traditional mindset and belt system 50 years ago which is holding martial arts back.
@outlawfly664 sure bud, whatever you say. I've only done both for over 20 years, so what do I know? Go back and re-read what I said because you obviously didn't comprehend it.
"No gi is better hands down." LOL!!!!! Let me guess, you're an "MMA Bro" who's never touched a gi in his life. Am I right?
@@kingwilly8041 Oh the classic "I've done this for x amount of years" without putting any constructive argument to the table and anyone who disagrees with him and displays critical thinking is an idiot. There's nothing to re-read because your argument is non-existent, now back to the drawing board.
I don’t see why you shouldn’t train both. My school offers both but we prioritize body on body grips/control rather than specializing in gi only grips.
Cause some schools don’t offer both or may offer only a day at a specific time of no GI like mine.
I contend that no-gi grappling is a subset of gi grappling - there's nothing technically you can do in no-gi grappling that you cannot do in the gi, but it is not the case vice-versa. Additionally, there are tons of examples of gi competitors competing at a high level in no gi, but very few examples of any no-gi grapplers slapping on the gi and being highly competitive. For this reason, Gordon Ryan will never be the GoAT, he will always have to asterisk his name as the best no-gi grappler.
You make absolutely no sense and your analogy is contradictive.
@@outlawfly664 Sorry to learn you are unable to grasp simple concepts, looks like life is going to be a hard road.
@@davidjason2894 Sorry, there's no simplicity in your concepts, only contradictions and lack of critical thinking. So much for understanding life, now back to the drawing board
@@outlawfly664 Congratulations on declaring unearned intellectual high ground. A critical thinker would present an argument, not weakly posture. But you do you.
i do prefer nogi and think it is a purer form of grappling for the above-mentioned reasons, however, gi absolutely has more longevity. its much easier for an older man to start doing gi and get pretty good and you can do it for longer too. nogi is more athletic and therefore more of a young man's game.
Gi actually take more toll on your body than nogi, so this narrative of having more longevity and a younger mans game is flawed.
Training In both is the ideal. Nothing wrong with gi. Only reason why this is even a topic of conversation is because everyone is getting influenced by certain popular no gi grapplers. But the kings of bjj have medals in both gi and no gi.
Why is it ideal to train both? Training both reduces time spent on the nogi which is far more practical and dynamic, never mind the fact of the redundant information which reduces the personal development in both.
@@outlawfly664 I practice bjj for sport but also love the self defence. I’m not an elite athlete. If you believe there’s no self defence in gi you’re lying to your self. So many more potions to finish someone when both are practiced. Now if you’re an elite no gi grappler than for sure focus your time in your sport. ✌️
@@TBT13977 Compared to nogi, gi is far less practical for self-defense, nogi works under any circumstance, it's actual grappling, limb control while gi has a huge emphasis on kimono grips. Claiming otherwise makes you in denial. Never mind proper clothing as durable as the kimono, do you honestly believe nonsensical techniques like spider guard, worm guard, galaxy guard, collar guard etc works on the streets? In Gi you have more options on paper, not in practice because it's less dynamic, slower paced, more stalling etc.
@@outlawfly664 you realize that you can roll in the gi just the same like no gi right. Minus the escapes because your sweating. Comon bro. If you ever escaped a position or submission because you’re sweaty. It’s not jiujitsu 😂. I know it’s hard the gi. By the way who said anything about playing spider guard in a street fight. And the opponents clothing don’t have to be as strong as a gi. You just don’t know. All good. Not here to teach. If I can stall you I control you. Your problem not mine
@@TBT13977 No you can't. You mean minus the practicality, dynamism (less transitions, and positioning) and pace? Since when do you death grip someones sleeves, collar etc in nogi? So much for rolling the same way. Who are you kidding 😂🤦♂I don't care about jiujitsu, i care about actual grappling which jiujitsu didn't invent, actual grappling being limb control (actual control), real jiujitsu (kimono grips) is for hipsters, hence why nogi is called submission wrestling, two separate sports. If you have actual good techniques in keeping someone in side control or keeping the back, sweating will be no issue, i know it's hard nogi. Imagine have to rely on a kimono in order to control someone or having an easier time to choke someone where the collar is basically a rope around your neck 🤣 Sorry to tell you, but most clothing isn't as durable or constructed as the kimono, a tshirt collar would be ripped in grips, nor is it thick enough for chokes. The beauty about nogi is the fact that it works under every circumstance, no matter the amount of clothing, winter jackets or no jackets etc. Do you know the meaning of stalling? It's not control, but wasting time and doing nothing basically. How do you control someone when stalling from a 50/50 guard in gi? If you consider that to be "control", then that's your problem (actual problem) not mine
Gi is better especially for stand up, no gi stand up is boring comparatively.
Also it's more realistic, nobody walks around naked or in skin tights.
Unless you are always at the beach or some crap.
Having to rely on people's clothes to grapple isn't more realistic brotha im sorry.
@@devonanderson1832 if you try to take someone down by going for the legs or an underhook and they just stiff arm you with a jacket grip you'd realize why it's better to know how to jacket wrestle.
@@dmfaccount1272 I’ve been doing gi for two years and No GI for two. It’s not like I don’t have experience. I just generally don’t enjoy it compared to no gi. That’s just my take.
Sambo you get the best of both worlds
Another case of talk-jitsu just being an echo chamber of the same opinions over and over again. Boring takes.
Exactly
They had a new guest on so they put a popular discussion (gi vs no gi) to him