Which Color Space? Adobe RGB or sRGB
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 เม.ย. 2024
- This video addresses the question of what color space should you choose? Adobe RGB or sRGB? This video was in response to several comments suggesting that images captured in Adobe RGB or sRGB are the same. Are they? Watch the video to find out and stay until the end to learn how to select the proper color space in the OM-1 or OM-1 Mark II.
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Nice explanation and demonstration Lee, thanks for walking us through this much appreciated 👍
You are welcome, sorry for delayed response, Cuba had NO internet that really worked!
Thanks Lee. Had made my change that last time you mentioned it. Nice to see the actual visual evidence. Nice job. TY
You are welcome!
Most excellent comparison. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching from Cuba!
Lee, thanks. Actually the first time I have seen someone show the difference. Appreciate it!
Glad you enjoyed it and hope it helps! Greetings from Cuba!
Lee, I think you would find if you redid this test between the OM1 and OM1 Mk2 with the raw file bit depth set to 14 bit on the Mk2 you would see a difference between the raw files, and a greater change between Adobe RGB and the srgb file on the Mk2. Also with a calibrated monitor and running 30 bit colour through display port with a graphics card that supports it you would see a greater difference on that monitor (that’s another story or video for another time). Also if you edited the raw file to what you want for a print, applied those settings to the srgb file and printed both there would be a world of difference due to the reduced colour space size of srgb. 👍🏻
My understanding is that sRGB is a compressed color space that doesn't give as smooth a change in the tone curves. Don't know if that is correct but when I view the histogram there are small gaps in the sRGB histogram.
Hey bud, remember the histogram shows you what the jpg of your RAW file is showing you, but it will be a tiny bit different from the actual RAW file you see in LR!
Thank you. I always questioned what the difference between the two were. Now I KNOW Adobe is the correct color space to use.
Glad you liked the video.
Nailed it
Thanks!
I thought it was just for JPG? Not any different on raw?
Many other say so
Take what you will from it. Hope it helps, if not, sorry.
@@leehoyphotography keep on your god content :) no worries 😉
Just purchased om-1 Mii with the 12-40f2.8 pro ii!🙂 I have set adobeRGB from another video Lee recommended. Random question....is it necessary/recommended to use a uv or skylight filter? I have in the past to protect the lens. Thanks!
You can, but why put a cheap piece of glass over the top of an expensive optic. Use the lens hood for protection and be careful 👍
@@davidlawrence7540 My thought also, thanks!
I have never used one to date and I don't recommend them! Use your lens hood for safety and when hiking, through rough stuff, point the lens back! I have never scratched a lens yet and I am rough on gear!
Hi Lee. 1 comment, 1 question. The comment is nothing to do with your findings as I agree 100%. The comment is how much TH-cam butchers the colors with their lousy encoding algorithms (This is my industry, I know what they do) So we will never see the quality that you are seeing on yor screen. The question is, do you ever use the Camera matching settings in LRC? The OM people claim that they have calibrated the colors based on how they handle color space etc within the camera?
I've noticed some software does honor the various settings you have for in camera JPEGs. It probably depends. OM Workspace tries to adhere to these. So photo profile, white balance, color space, etc. seem to be factored in. You can override these, but it's how it first comes in. I don't use OM Workspace much just because it's not that great of a raw developer. It is interesting to see though. I wonder if this is a more modern feature as with past cameras RAW files pretty much came in without any presets. It also really depends on the software though. I'm pretty sure DXO adheres to these, but I'd have to double check. I usually don't mind for my own use case.
Brilliant 😊
Glad you enjoyed it!
Ahh… Lee.. Always nice to have a chat with someone who doesn’t understand the computer science of digital camera captures and RAW files.
Your video, to the novice would be compelling. To anyone who understands the way digital cameras work and specifically RAW files, it is a perfect example of coming up with an experiment that isn’t well thought out and comes up with an invalid conclusion. Read on....
Looking at the screen captures in the Develop module, I note that the Edit Icon and the Crop icons both have dots under them. That indicates changes have been made. It is true on both images. I won’t assert that you changed them individually to try to make your point, but if the images were truly straight from the camera with no changes, those dots would not be there. Maybe you have an import preset that is doing something. The fact is LR is showing that both files have had some Edits made and that both files have had a crop.
I just sat down with my OM-1 Mark 1 and took a series of shots on a tripod to mimic your setup.
I shot at f/16, just like you did. I took 4 frames in succession. ALL of the images were in Adobe RGB.
Guess what Lee. 2 of the files were 19.4 mb, and 2 were 19.5 mb. Hmmm…. So much for the file size argument where your assertion was that it was the camera color space choice in camera that is causing the file size difference on disk. It’s not hard to replicate the file size difference. It doesn’t happen every time, but enough samples prove that your assertion that file size is a function of the in camera colorspace is wrong and easy to prove. Oh, and the histograms viewed in LR Develop were also slightly different. Hmmm... Same Color space in Camera, different file sizes (difference showing the same as your example) and slight varied histograms. Remember science classes in school where sample sizes are important to validate assumptions?? Your sample shared with the world is 2…. That’s just too funny.
Have you ever done any Timelapse photography. If you stop your lens down to any aperture other than wide open you will quickly find out that lenses are not perfect. You get very slightly different amounts of light since the aperture blades don’t always close to the EXACT same place every time. We never see it doing “regular” photography, but when doing a Timelapse sequence taking an image every 1 or 2 seconds, then putting them together to create a 24 frames per second video, you’ll see the exposure differences and the result of a little flickering. That’s why programs like LR Timelapse have a de-flickering mode to solve the issue. I’ve done many hundreds of time lapse sequences with tens of thousands of individual frames and processed them through LR Timelapse and the de-flickering algorithm shows you exactly what has to be changed for each frame to have the exposures be consistent.
Your sRGB Example is clearly a tad darker than your Adobe RGB example. Has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with color space and is extremely likely a result of a small change in exposure because the aperture blades didn’t stop down to exactly (and I mean exactly) the same place.
I’m sure this will all be a waste of time to tell you, but RAW files do NOT have an embedded color space. They are simply bits and bytes of data stored on your memory card. When you import them into LR, they are de-mosaiced and a color space is assigned. That color space is ProPhoto RGB and there is nothing you can do in LRC to change that. You can assign a different color space in the External Editing Tab of the Preferences dialog, but that affects what color space is assigned to the data when it is shipped over to an external editor like Photoshop. So, despite you rambling on about sRGB, Adobe RGB, what you were seeing on your screen all had the same colorspace assignment, ProPhoto RGB. Neither image was in Adobe RGB or sRGB.
Since you tried to “quote” me in this video saying one person said you might see the differences in Library, but not in Develop….. Well, let’s be clear about what I said. If you import and use “Embedded and Sidecar” as the LR preview option, what you see in the Library module will be the embedded JPEG from the RAW file. That jpeg will honor all of the color settings set in the camera at the time of capture. Yes, that includes White Balance, color space, any sharpness, saturation, and yes camera profiles like Camera Muted, Camera Natural, Vivid (even ART modes). But, when you open that image in Develop, you will be seeing the de-mosaiced RAW data, not the embedded JPEG and all of those in camera settings are ignored. The only one that gets passed through is White Balance, which of course you can change in Develop. Ahh…. Just reminded me that you said “I shoot in camera muted 100% of the time. This is NOT something you can adjust for in LR. “ Of course as I pointed out in that video thread and I’ll point out here…. That is completely wrong. Open Develop, click on the Profile or click on the set of 4 boxes to the right of it to open the Profile Browser and you can set the profile to anything you want. There are camera matching profiles, Adobe Profiles, Artistic profiles, B&W profiles, Modern profiles….
You can go on believing that your two image “experiment” is valid, but the science of how RAW data is captured in ANY digital camera and the way it is processed in any editing program is based in the computer science behind RAW image de-mosacing. RAW files do NOT have an embedded color space, the in camera color space has nothing to do with the RAW data, RAW file sizes on disk don’t change because you changed the color space. All of that is fact, easy validate with any amount of actual studying and doing something more than a 2 image sample size.
So for those novices who might be swayed by your video, do your own research. It is extremely easy to find thousands of technical articles that debunk the assertion made in this video.
To be clear, I agree with setting the color space in camera to Adobe RGB because that colors space is then honored in the JPEG header that you are viewing on the back of your camera. It gives you a better sense of the colors, and histogram of the RAW data that you’ll eventually see after importing your images in LR or any other RAW file Editor. The histogram and colors you see on then back of the camera will not match the actual RAW data colors and histogram, but it is better to use Adobe RGB to get a better approximation.
Keith, why waste time on my channel badmouthing? I proved my point and why don't you do a youtube channel. Thanks for being the kind of person that most people don't enjoy. There are always those. You read technical articles, I will keep taking killer images. There is a BIG difference you know. Real world photography and technical articles are just that. I 100% promise that every time I do this, my Adobe RGB files are bigger. I do know how RAW files work, I talk to OM engineers. But, it seems like you would much more enjoy the videos of the dull and boring photographers. Sounds like you should be doing workshops all over the world, I am sure your clients would find you to be an absolute joy.
@@leehoyphotography Sorry that you decided to go low and make it personal. Not surprising, but sad. Why did I post? Because you are an OM Ambassador. I love my OM system. It is videos like this and your response that makes Social Media a mess. People who are supposed to be trusted with factual information post stuff that is simply not true, is easy to prove that it isn't true, yet want to live an a world of "alternate facts". Sad. This video embarrasses you, and the OM Community because it is based on an assumption that is wrong. If you'd actually take the time to read technical articles, you would find out that you're wrong, but I'm confident that won't happen. Do yourself a favor and send the link to this video to all the OM Ambassadors. I challenge you to do so. If you don't, I'll be happy to send it to as many as I can contact. Workshops: I do lead them so don't be such an ass and assume you're talking to a novice. I've lead numerous workshops in Costa Rica, Chile, Yellowstone, Bosque, and many others. Just have to add.... You keep talking about the size of your Adobe RBG files... Try this Lee.... Go shoot 5 images on a tripod of the same scene. Change the ISO between each of the 5. Start at 200, then 400, then 1600, then 3200, then 6400. Then use your logic that larger files will have more detail. Here's my quick results: 17.9mb, 18.2mb, 19.3mb, 20.2mb, 21.2mb. With your logic the ISO 6400 image would have more details and data... Right, Lee. You don't even understand the contributing factors that affect physical file size on disk, but that seems to be the drum you want to beat. Oh... and if you want to understand the concept of Aperture Flicker... Here's a link since I'm sure you think that is also not a fact. th-cam.com/video/KyKmpSBcHOA/w-d-xo.html
Too bad you just want to stick your head in the sand and ignore facts on this topic. Do your clients a favor and don't feed this nonsense to them. It doesn't help anyone and makes you look foolish as soon as they realize the truth. I took a lot of time the craft a detailed response. You didn't even bother to address why the two files had been edited and cropped. Why is that Lee? You owe your viewers at least that.......
@@NatPhoto56 So, reread your VERY first sentence on your first comment and you are saying you didn't get personal to start? Good grief. So PLEASE send to every OM Ambassador and to OM! Then, ask them how many people I move to OM compared to everyone else? Ask them who mentored the only one who became an OM ambassador in the first round. Why don't you just go find a great channel of technical papers and listen for hours. Many ambassadors already watch this, I will wait to hear from them. Rather than waste time with the "little lights aren't twinkling" kind of people, I will refrain from responding to any of your comments. Simply put, you are a time suck and a waste of energy. Wish you all the best and because you seem like the kind of guy who needs it "I am wrong, you are right." Now, you should have a technical article on the decibles a shutter produces when pushed during an exposure of 1". Enjoy life Keith. In fact, maybe find a party to attend and have some fun. I think you need it.
sun went behind the clouds
It was 11 seconds apart.
Given that the spectrum has infinite width and therefore there are an infinite number of colours. This video is pointless.
The only pure colour is black. that's what's left when all other colours are removed.
Way less pointless than dumbass comments like this one. Why waste time typing such foolishness? Bet you didn't even watch the video.
@@leehoyphotography I got a physics degree. The spectrum is infinite but the human eye can only detect a very small % of it.
@@MENSA.lady2 I do find physicists to generally have very poor emotional intelligence and social skills, so I will cut you some slack. Nevertheless, I am confident you didn't actually watch the video.
@@leehoyphotography I did. Hence my comment
@@leehoyphotography Did you know that Pink has no corresponding frequency?