How to Hold the Violin/Playing with NO shoulder rest
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
- Violin Playing EXPLAINED: Episode 1
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Here are the links to the products I was talking about. I'm not sponsored by any of these companies, I simply enjoy their products.
Acoustagrip Foam. I cut mine in half and used it that way under the violin.
www.acoustagrip.com/
Gel rest. If you are struggling with violin marks on your neck, this is a great thing to try. It makes playing much more comfortable.
gelrest.com/
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I have discovered the wonder of using NO shoulder rest OR chin rest. I am a retired professional violist and found Primrose promotion of this way of playing to be ideal for me. This was the way to play before 1840's and it works. The instrument rings a lot and vibrates through my body in an exhilarating manner.
I think it’s worth mentioning that 1) there are different body types and 2) a sweet spot does exist between going without a rest and supporting the violin with the hand, and the gripping and overwhelming downward pressure you mention with a rest. As for the former, the students I’ve had who are most comfortable without a shoulder rest tend to be those who similarly don’t have much or any collar bone protrusion and who’s collar bones track close to the neck and around to the front like a true collar. I’m personally built very differently, with collarbones that don’t come around to the front at all, but protrude dramatically and straight out along the top of my shoulder. This makes playing without a rest very painful and precarious, and the violin much too flat to comfortably reach the lower strings. As for the latter, light collar bone contact despite a rest, and a well fitting chin rest with enough lip to draw the instrument up and into our center of gravity once the head rests forward takes away the constant violin see-sawing that many using shoulder rests experience (and all the common detriments like intense gripping in the hand or neck from unstable support). There are certainly no magic cures either way, and people should recognize that it can take a lot of experimentation to find the best approach for the individual. No one should think that just because their teacher or favorite violinist is comfortable with a particular chin or shoulder rest, or no shoulder rest at all, they will be too.
Great comment.
Very true! I believe that one should do whatever makes them sound their best and feel the most comfortable. I am also not a big fan of forcing students to play one way of another. After plenty of experimentation I found plenty of benefits to playing without a rest that made me want to continue on this path. I like the more active role that the left hand takes in supporting the violin and the way it changes the relationship between the left and right hand.
This video is trying to help those who want to pursue playing without a rest. Those who are comfortable playing with their shoulder rests and are happy with their setup may continue to do so :)
I have a long neck and small shoulders and small collarbones. I just use a shoulder rest.
@@filippogady Yes - I'm very much more comfortable without a rest, but then you look at someone like Hilary Hahn and realise that either can work. So dogmatism one way or the other makes no sense - we all have to explore what works best with our own physique.
Having said that, I'm pretty convinced that unskilled use of the rest put you at significant risk of neck and shoulder injury, for the reasons you outline. I've seen scary video of tinies being asked to parade around with their fiddles being held only by the neck - this pretty much amounts to child abuse, I feel. And the levels of injury in our music schools is a bit of a hidden scandal...
This video is Murphy Music Academy approved! Great explanation of a way of playing that is finally seeing some resurgence over the past few years!
Totally agree. The resurgence is more a US phenomenon, I think though. Europe is still VERY shoulder rest obsessed.
@@filippogady That is surprising! I would have guessed the opposite. I stopped using mine 15 years ago in highschool. Every teacher I've had since then, from undergrad to post-grad, didn't use one. I teach all new students how to play without one now. Back when I started going "restless" I was the only one, but I've seen it so much more recently.
@@filippogady I am in Europe. My teacher recommended a shoulder rest. I can't. I hate them. I even took off my chinrest. I have a naked violin. I still don't feel comfortable. But I am more comfortable than when I was with chinrest alone and chinrest plus shoulder rest.
@@medicinemadisonofficial Thanks for the comment! Have you tried modifying your chin rest the way that I show it in the video? For me that was a real breakthrough on my quest. Most of my students are adding a slope/edge to the chin rest and they all found that very helpful. Let me know how it goes :)
This video makes me so happy! I began playing in the early 1970s and never used a shoulder rest. I've had a couple teachers in the past few years who have strongly encouraged shoulder rests, but I am so much more comfortable without one. I am going back to not using one starting today! Thank you!
I had a visceral disconnect with the instrument when my instructor put a rest on my rental first day. It was literally the second time i'd had a violin at my throat, and i knew it was wrong. so i have been learning without it ever since with a proud red mark on my collarbone.
I have heard it said that people find violins "unergonomic" but get the tail in the right place on the collarbone, the angle from the body dialed in,the arm pose correct... and it lets you know this is how it wants to be held.
Excellent video! Almost exactly how Fodor taught me in regards to using no shoulder rest. Bravo, brother!
Excellent post. THank you so much!
Such excellent advice. I'm a beginner but have ditched the shoulder rest because of this advice and feel I have much more contact with the sound I'm making.
I am a beginner - tried several shoulder resets - none felt right and in experimenting, noticed they definately cut down on tone and volume. I've been using the Artino Magic Pad and I love it - it stickes to the bottom of the violin right where you said to put the folded towel and comes right off with a twist after each practice. Costs about $5. (American).
We LOVE this new video series! The WAVE chinrest is our favorite but I've also heard good things about the Kreddle chinrest.
hehe thanks! I'll check out the Wave, i've heard of the Kreddle before, never tried it though
Very interesting and well explained,, I am seriously thinking about giving this a try!
Go for it! It takes some getting used to, but I think it's absolutely worth it!
Great lesson! I've been experimenting with playing without a should rest for a while now and you're right; the sound is definitely more resonant! It's like taking training wheels off a bike ;)
Glad you liked it! And yes, absolutely! The sound is completely different! That’s what got me hooked in the first place! 🙌🏼
very well explained Sir Filip! and great attention to details. More violin tutorial Sir! I'm a huge follower of yours.
Thanks so much man! More coming soon :)
This video is a godsend. Please, don't ever take this video down.
Haha glad to hear that! Thanks 🙏
Thank you very much, it has been very useful for me.
Yay, glad to hear that!!!
Yes! Big help..thank you 😊
Great tips! Subscribed!
I love your vids they’re so helpful
Glad to hear :) Thank you!
I'm still very new at violin, but from day one the shoulder rest didn't feel right and I thought, there is no way the greats from the 1700 and 1800s had one of these. Very informative video! Thank you! Esther Abrami also said that your chin will be in the middle, I currently am using a "Berber chin rest" and it seems to work quite nicely. Thank you for your video!
I'm inspired by these videos and I don't even have a violin!
Hahaha thanks
If you don't have a violin, get one. It will make you happy.
Well, get one!!!!! It will be a before and after in your life if you do :)
Great content! I gave up shoulder rest 6 years ago and have never been happier, experiencing all the benefits addressed in this great video!
Thanks so much man! It took me about a year and a half, a lot of experimenting and some performances I wasn’t too happy with 😂, but I think it was totally worth it. Once I figured it out there was no turning back!
I use one of those thick micro fiber cleaning cloths that goes on the edge and than under and over the violin chinrest. So I have a cushion on every contact surface between me and the wood, but it is plyable and thin, so it doesn't ruin the feeling of contact. It just hurts less. It also doesn't slip.
Love the color of your violin!
Great video!!! Thanks!!!!
Excellent content, thank you 😊👏
Glad you enjoyed it! Cheers :)
One of the best teaching on this topico.
Thank you so much :)
Thank you for the great content. I agree playing restless is more free and better sounding. But one also must sacrifice stability especially in high positions. I have definitely learned more about balance and left hand independence by playing restless. It’s a good practice technique even if you don’t fully embrace it IMO.
I totallly agree. It also somehow helps me to sync the left and right hand somehow. It just feels more natural somehow.
Fantastic explanation!!
Thanks so much :)
I'm a brand-new learner and tried both shoulder rest and no shoulder rest and prefer no shoulder rest, however my playing was compromised because of the "official left hand positioning. Your comments about the thumb and the modification of your chin rest helped me tremendously. Fantastic video. Much appreciated.
I just wanna say it's not about my playing but my collarbone and shoulder hurts when I try to use the chinrest
This was very helpful! I am an old guy just starting. I can play the guitar very easily and well. The violin is a completely different beast. I am grateful for this insight as I do NOT want to use a shoulder rest. I don't need one and I don't want one. Thanks again.
Hehe, that's the spirit! Good luck!🙌🏼
I removed my shoulder rest because after a while of clamping down on the violin, my back would feel so stiff and tight, I would fatigue very quickly. I also think it is because my left hand had to reach too high, and that just wasn't the right setup for me. What I use now is a 28mm high SAS chin rest, and a gel rest, so the violin doesn't slip. And finally, I'm so much more comfortable!
Great video. I also play without a shoulder rest. Thats why I preffer a centred chin rest. Feels much better to hold the violin. I’m looking forward to your further videos.
Thanks! Yes, more centered is the way to go. Have you tried to attach something to your chinrest to make it lock under your jaw? There's this one company that I spoke to a while back, it's called chin rest lip. It's trying to use the same principal, but I still like what I have made better. Check it out if you're interested.
Thanks for the support, more vids coming :)
@@filippogady I create the lip with the Kreddle chin rest. It is very adjustable so I just make a well-defined lip with it.
I also hated shoulder rests but took decades to be OK without, I found the chin rest became crucial.
Thaaaaaaaaaank yooou! It is so important the slant of the chinrest. For everybody kids and professionals as well. Is one of the most important tools for violin. Paul Rolland made it very clear the logic behind a chinrest that falls towards the scroll. I guess the people who make chinrests took the advice of mediocre violinists who did not know the mechanics of playing and from then on they mass produced the same thing over and over. then came another company copying what previous one did. Thousands of players are subject to this erroneous chinrest design and they dont know because nobody competent told them it is wrong. The chinrest must be raised at the edge and sloped downwards towards scroll so that it “hooks” on the chin and that keeps violin secure. Thank you for explaining where to put the little towel I am exploring playing without shoulder rest and I can see it sounds sooooo much better. it feels/sound as if I have never heard/knew my violin until now.
Interesting video, so inspiring 😃 thank you 🙏
My pleasure! More is coming :)
@@filippogady can't wait 😃😊
Happy medium for me is to use a foam rest ( Zaret) and a fairly high chin rest ( wave).
The foam rest is comfortable and allows a dynamic support using left hand and head weight when needed
I have tried some of those foam rests. I actually quite liked them, although I feel like the support on the E-string side of the violin is a bit too much. Tried cutting it in half and only using the part that's closer to the shoulder. I found that to be much better.
And here it is in action! The Zddd Sound... can you please tell us how to make it?
Ahhh! This is just what I needed! I HATE shoulder rests and have never ever used one but have recently questioned myself on this as learning vibrato is a bit hard in terms of stability and I find my thumb position the same as yours. I am glad to know this is alright to do. Thank you!!!
Glad I could help! In case you haven't done it yet, I highly recommend modifying your chin rest as described in the video. It was a real game changer for me. Most of my students have done it as well and they are all very happy with it, so I guess it's not just me 🙌🏼. As for the thumb position there are so many ways of doing it, but I definitely find this one to be working best for me (and i've pretty much tried them all 😂)
@@filippogady Okay, I will. I recently purchased a chin rest cover in an effort to help me hold on better. It is comfortable but it does dampen the sound some. Any thoughts on this? Maybe you could work with a professional design for your chin rest and sell them. You could become famous this way.🤔👍
Very well explained! I try to play without a shoulder rest sometimes and feel like the violin is just going to slip off.. plus no control of my left hand. But I’m eager to try this now! Completely agree on the thumb and elbow position btw. Mine looks the same and it really does ease articulation/vibrato like you mentioned.
Thanks! Glad to hear it was somewhat helpful! Try to modify your chin rest similarly like I did. That was a total game changer for me 🙌🏼
@@filippogady that’s exactly what I’m going to try to do
God is real, a VERY competent, talented violinist with equally matching attractiveness!
Aside from that, I took off my 'Mach One' shoulder rest, because I've noticed my neck is in fact, not as long as I thought it was, and it was causing me to clamp down and there was neck pain. For once, my left hand relaxed, and I could finally gain some relaxed vibrato! I think I will continue to test this out - the ribs on my viola are wide enough that no shoulder rest is required to fill in that space, contrary to my former belief!
I have probably tried 30 different shoulder rests over the years and can never find one that is comfortable for me -I even recently sprung for a fancy, expensive Dolfinos rest- and I’m still not happy with it. However, I still play with a shoulder rest… currently using a Dolfinos chin rest and the Pirastro shoulder rest. I’ve tried playing without a shoulder rest a few times… and it just feels so foreign. Maybe I’ll experiment a bit more without a rest again… I just can’t seem to find any system or lack of system that feels great. Lol. Thanks for the great video. :)
After the first week of playing the violin, I tossed the shoulder rest. I hated the restrictive feel. Having a long neck, I found the Kreddle height adjustable chin rest works well.
I never tried that one but heard some great things about it. It's whatever works, really. Thanks for sharing! Cheers :)
I'm learning Viola D'amore - Used to use a shoulder rest on Violin and now have little choice, so this is really useful - Thanks for the video Filip! - I also really like what you done with your chin rest - I'm studying Bowed Instrument Making and will definitely make one of these for myself to try, so thanks again!
Thanks so much! Oh wow, would love to try Viola D'amore. But isn't it pretty much taboo using a chin rest on baroque instruments?
@@filippogady You should! The Viola D'amore world would love to have you as a virtuoso I think - I'd love to see what you could do with one.
Perhaps, but I have a long neck and I don't think anyone would ever really miss taboos.
I just read on your website that you was on Louie - Do you know the episode? CK's my favourite comedian out there! Funny that you've worked together.
@@SamLamingWingsuit haha yeah it was a fun experience! It’s Season 2, Episode Subway/Pamela. Check it out, I love that show!
@@filippogady Haha! Just watched it - Brilliant! Absolutely love Czardas, never seen it with that background before though... Haha bravo again Filip!
Wow, you and Roman Kim have very long fingers! I'm jealous!!!
no shoulder rest = my violin and I are one. my body breathes and adjusts as I play and my violin vibrates off of my collar bone. No shoulder rest provides a wonderful intimacy with the instrument. A small folded leather chamois, covering the chin rest and extending down and under the instrument helps with sweat and facial cream, slippage, and keeps the metal chin rest bracket from hitting the collar bone.
I agree, for me there's nothing really like it. I still like the soft support from a small towel/sponge to angle the violin a little. Makes it a little easier to play on the G string. Thanks for watching and best of luck :)
Amazing! I think I will try this with my viola. What chin rest fo you use?
Edit: Oh I see now the description! Thank you so much 🙏🏾
Excellent technical information worthy of a mechanical engineer!
I got to using a Magic Pad ages ago to ditch mine and never looked back! It's SO comfortable. I never could play freely with a rest. But I definitely like the idea of ditching support altogether… I'm definitely going to be trying your method of having the thumb under the neck to start with, once I start back playing! I'm feeling inspired to get my instrument back out! Thank you sooooo much for these videos. 🙏🏻
Yay glad to hear that! Thanks! I have actually owned a magic pad in the past. I liked it, but it didn’t work for me as well as sponges. The good thing about the magic pad is that the violin doesn’t slide. Back then I cared about that. Now the slipperiness of the violin back doesn’t bother me any more, especially since modifying my chin rest. Lemme know how the elbow/thumb placement works out for you 🙌🏼.
@@filippogady I did it! I am slowly started back playing! Initially, I thought it may be tricky re-training G string without a shoulder rest. But the funny thing is, I have an incredibly broad/flat shoulder unlike yours and most which are much more slanted. With shoulder rests/pads, I never could manage to have the violin at much of an angle on the lower string. But without support, it doesn't matter if the instrument is even touching my shoulder. It will take a lot of re-learning, but I think it's actually easier! Thanks so much for this detailed breakdown of thumb placement etc. I rewatched it closely! 🤜🏻
'sit on the thumb and 'against' the finger'
Fantastic video. I have ditched my shoulder rest 18 months ago. I came across you video half a year ago and I was skeptical about your hand frame as the angle seems unnatural and the thumb seems strained. I tried it for 3 months and I have now adopted it. Tuning , shifting and vibrato is much better!! Thank you!!! Ps. What type of chin rest do you use underneath the gelrest? I am using a Dresden but it fees too tall. Do you use a Teka or Morawitz! Cheers.
Having never used a shoulder rest, I experience tension issues from raising my left shoulder to compensate for the grip when playing in open or 1st position,especially on the G-string. Recently bought the Kreddle chinrest. Brilliantly conceived and designed. Not cheap, but I'm finding it to be worth every penny as all previous shoulder pain has been replaced by pure comfort. I've been able to find the precise height & angle of chin-rest that makes the violin feel like it's floating, yet stable between my jaw and collar-bone and more importantly, takes the shoulder out of the equation allowing it to completely relax. The weird thing is the re-alignment of muscle memory in the bow-arm, an adjustment like this seems to throw things off a bit.
yeah a chin rest can make a huge difference! Glad to hear you found something that works for you! Yes, i find that the left elbow has to swing a little more to the right. I believe in having the right elbow low at all times no matter what string you are playing on, but even that has to be a tiny bit higher than with a shoulder rest, because the angle of the violin/strings changes.
@@filippogady Thanks for that!....the new chin rest has helped tremendously, but I've overcome the habit of raising the left shoulder after discovering that my left thumb IS the key to balance.....we are all-ways splitting hairs when playing violin...Love it!!
Thanks so much for your vids, super inspiring along with your good sense of humor. Cheers!
nice one!
Yayyyyy when are we handeling and halvoorsening?
I'm experimenting with my overall violin hold as I've been gettin upper back pain while practising I had thought of changing my shoulder rest but now you've completely made me change my mind. I noticed you use Evah PIrazzi Gold like I do but you have a different E string... What E string is it? BTW you are so great looking that your videos are overly compelling, you got yourself a new subscriber :) Warm regards from Mexico!
Glad to hear! Hope it works for you! Yes I love Evah Pirazzi Gold. The E-string I use is the Pirastro no.1. Highly recommended :)
Greetings back to Mexico :)
Nice guns dude. Amazing on a violin player! ;- )
Years ago, dissatisfied with shoulder rests, I challenged myself to play without one.
It was an adjustment, but worth the effort; very liberating.
I know it may not work for everyone, but, if you try it, you may never go back.
My newest challenge...
No chin rest. (It's an exercise in relaxation while playing. ...It's a work in progress...)
Totally totally agree! Yehudi Menuhin is my idol.
Yeah, some of the best recordings ever! Sound and slides are unreal!
I think my teacher will cry if I start holding my thumb like you do. 😅 I'm a beginner and I learn with shoulder rest, and I surely haven't found a good posture for me yet. I sometimes practice without shoulder rest and find it somewhat tiring, but I have noticed that it helps my posture even if I do add the shoulder rest after a while. Just knowing the instrument will not fall if I don't clench like crazy is pretty helpful.
Thanks for talking so honestly and clearly about your playing. Everyone should hear this when they start out ... such a friendly discussion.
IMO, the posture of Maestro Oistrak is the best. He used a sponge and the left hand to support the violin. His jaw never pin down the chinrest
7:42 picture of the girl pulling away from you (is that you?) is so funny !
If you can produce clean vibrato with no chin rest, that's raw talent
I think the Kreddle chin rest is wonderful aid. At the very least try it , even those famous virtuosi. I think the shoulder rest must be an individual thing, for myself I bought two Kuhn rests and combined parts with glue and cut other parts in half to produce a rest which is 3cm/1.25" thick where it rests/supports above the shoulder. The only remaining problem is talent and the lack thereof.
Thank you for the video! But my case is that I’m really skinny and my collar bone is way protruding. Therefore my collar bone hurt a lot when I tried to play without the shoulder rest. I also have a relatively long neck which brings a bit difficulty for me to touch the chin rest with my chin easily. So how shall I deal with such problems?
Great video.I play with no no SR - most of the time. If I play with a SR then it is ultra low height and not shaped. Shaped SR force the players body to conform to the shape of the SR - big problems can occur. I call my modded SR the 'non-shoulder rest shoulder rest'. It must not cause a 'cantilever affect'. It is the next feeling to having no SR but just adds a tiny extra balancing mechanism for my personal needs - in the upper register. I only use it when playing Paganini caprices etc. Chin rest design is extremely important and inseparable from the total set up. Great video and explanations! 😀
Thank you! Glad you liked it! I think I understand what you mean by the "non shoulder rest". Basically just making the violin taller. I believe Wolf makes one like that. It's just a straight piece of metal with foam on it.
I always find that having support on the g string side of the violin is more important that on the e string side - which is exactly the opposite of the shape of most shoulder rests. I think that's why Shlomo Mintz puts on his Kun the wrong way - so the taller part on the shoulder.
@@filippogady That's interesting. I know the Wolf but I don't like its weight/metallic structure. My modded SR is the Pirastro Korfker. Its so light that it's not noticeable and I find the wood composite/nice feet allow for more resonance on my violin. I like all your comments esp about the angles and 'violin more in front' concept.
I really do like this idea and have given it a try. I keep having the problem that the towel slips out of place while I'm playing. Any advice?
I use a guarneri chin rest which gives me a similar effect as yours.
I don't use shoulder rest. Yes without it violin sounds loud and clear. But I am yet to find a stable hold... I will try your method of udi g a pad on my shoulder bone.i experiment with sound production I glued the sound posts inside the violin and tried with different positions of the bridge. When bridge away from the finger board length of string increases and sound is loud and deep.
great video, no wonder you are not using shoulder rest, you have influenced from the great Pinchas Zukerman!
Hahaha, yes, he was the first to inspire me to get rid of my shoulder rest. So happy I did that!
Filip, can You, please, advise me, what to do with wolf tone? How to tame it? Or how to play on this note(tone)? Please, advise me)
When I play without a shoulder rest, my violin comes alive. I can feel the vibrations in my chest.
Does this same deal apply to those of us playing viola? I’m never quite sure if we are included when discussing violin techniques
Haha when i started playing i used a shoulder rest for a small bit but then after a couple weeks i just didn’t feel like dealing with it and it never fit properly in my case so i just ditched it annoyed my teacher but i haven’t used one since. 😂 Honestly can’t even think of using one now.
I agree, playing without a shoulder rest is far better. However I prefer a high thumb position.
Yes, there are obviously more than one way of doing it. There are as many hand positions as there are violinists 😂
Again a brilliant video... however can this apply for viola...thankyou
I think it's pretty much the same. The only difference I see with a viola is the response time of the string is a little different. other than that my setup is exactly the same when I play viola :)
Hey man… I liked your chin rest… where did you get it from?
If I cannot hold violin horizontal without my left hand thumb support, is it fine?
Wow
Yeah bro
You make that violin sound nice and earthy. What do you play?
I do the same you do, but I hold the cloth in place with a rubber band :)
Bur its true, you get a much better feel for the music W O the shoulder rest :)
Thanks for sharing! Yes, I used to do the same for a while, but then got addicted to the look of the bare back of the violin and didn't want to have anything attached to it (it was mostly a vanity thing, but it also feels like it makes the violin rind even more this way). Now with the modified chin rest I don't even feel the need to make the violin less slippery any more.
It's a journey - i started with pretty high sponges, towels etc under the violin, now I just play with that thin folded towel. Tried playing without anything at all, but that was sacrificing a little too much comfort.
Good luck with everything! :)
i thought i need to buy shoulder to play vibrato but i need learned more vibrato movement😌
Can you comfortably and sturdily (and parallel to floor) hold the violin without any left hand support since there is no shoulder rest? Looks like you are able to do that a little bit and make the violin rest in there securely enough (?) but do you need your left hand to support the violin from slipping or slanting down or to keep it more sturdily? I know slanted and elavated chinrest and antislip pad should help but I was wondering how sturdy this setup is. And how much more left hand now has to be trained or retrained to do the extra lifting to support holding it? Can you show on a video how you hold your violin without hands and even tap it with the right or left hand to show it's sturdy?
that's the whole point of this video, to show that it is a balance between the hand and the collarbone. if you are using your chin and shoulder only to hold your violin, it causes damage to your body.
Now to explain shifting (downward) comfortably/position changes without an SR lol :D
haha, the sloped chin rest makes that a breeze! Try it out and lemme know what you think!
@@filippogady Would the sloped chin rest also prevent the violine shaking from the vibrato?
Great lesson ! How can we get in touch for private lessons ? The swipe up on your Instagram doesn't work
Thank you! You can write me a message through my website www.pogady.com
Great lesson! Thank You!
I am a tall man (1m 94 cm) and I want to ask you a question.
What if I have a giraffe-neck? Is this way of holding a violin useful for everybody?
Great tips from Filip 🤟 Giraffe neck here, so allow me to step in.
I would recommend taller chinrest but not too tall cause then you feel like your head is too far from the instrument. In the meantime you will need a piece of cloth or some sort of thing under the violin (where the instrument touches the collarbone). That way it will bring it slightly higher. BUT it has to still make you feel as if you haven't lost the contact with the collarbone. The connection between the instrument and the bone is the Alpha and Omega, if you don't have that then the violin is in the air. Lots of struggle playing violin with a long neck so I feel you. Удачи! 🙌
Thanks so much guys! Totally agree with @Alexandros Gavriilidis-Petrin! I'm 1m 87cm tall, so not quite as much of a giraffe as you, but not exactly short either. My chin rest was custom made for me and already pretty high, and yet I felt the need to make it even taller with all the extra stuff I glued on top of it. I found that having a shoulder rest doesn't really change the position of the violin in relation to the collar bone. The main difference is WHERE the violin is supported. A shoulder rest sits on the shoulder, but the violin itself is still roughly at the level of the collar bone. A shoulder rest is taller, because it rests on a lower point of the slope that goes from the neck down to the shoulder.
As Alexandros suggested, I'd try a higher chin rest, and still use a sponge or a cloth on the spot I talk about in the video. A sponge is great because it also doesn't slip. Lemme know what you come up with! Happy experimenting :)
okay but i bought a shoulder rest cause my violin didnt come with one but should i just start off without one
Thanks for the video!🥰 I’m curious what exactly were your problems when you supported the violin with your shoulder? I have played without the shoulder rest for years and am kind of supporting the violin with my shoulder... have never felt any pain or discomfort
That's great! Glad to hear it's working out for you! I think my problem at the time was that I didn't have the right chin rest. The violin was getting away from me and I tried to squeeze it between my head and my shoulder, as I was used to doing that from my shoulder rest days. Also I tried to play without anything at all pretty much cold turkey. I think I was doing multiple things wrong back then 😂.
Also height might have something to do with it, I'm not a giant, but at 6'2'' I'm not exactly short either, so my neck is not short. I still blame me not having done it correctly and not my height, but it certainly didn't help.
Have you always played without anything under your violin?
@@filippogady Thanks for the story! Hahah it makes sense🤪 I played with a shoulder rest until I was 16 yrs old, then it wore out and I was too lazy to buy a new one😅 I watched lots of videos on TH-cam of the old violin legends and was inspired to try without. It took just one day to get used to it, and it actually improved my overall technique immensely! All my bow hand problems were solved overnight, and the upper back pain I had before disappeared. The violin just fits very well on my collar bone and becomes an extention of the body without the shoulder rest. I was also impressed by how rich the sound quality of the violin became. Have never looked back since 😍 I prefer to play completely bare, violin directly on the skin as it gives the best contact and friction.
@@ragrian Good for you! I have a student who also figured it out in just one lesson which I was VERY impressed by. Wasn't that easy for me 😂
Thanks so much Filip! I’ve tried to play without a shoulder rest for years but I always feel the neck of my violin falling into the gap between my thumb and first finger! :( my vibrato is more stiff and slow too when I hold the violin up with my left hand.. pls help ❤️
Edit: also.. which chin rest do you use?? Much love from Sydney
According to a previous comment he said he's using a custom made model. Chinrests are really individual and you'd have to try lots of models to find one that fits :)
@@irisgirl86music14 thankyou !
Hello Charles! It will require some getting used to for sure. As for falling into the gap between your thumb and first finger: I'd say try to simply support the neck with your thumb. Having the left elbow a little more to the right might help as well. All of this should be happening in a more less relaxed state, which is obviously not easy at the beginning. Keep trying! I have made a separate video specifically about the left hand setup which might answer some of your questions as well. Check it out! Hope it helps!
As for my chin rest, yes it is a custom chin rest and yet I felt the need to make the slope even a little higher. It's SUPER comfortable and most people who have tried my chin rest really love it. All my students glue all kinds of stuff to their chin rest and they are very happy with it, too. Just create a lip at the edge to really lock in. There's even a product called "chin rest lip" you might want to check out. It's not the prettiest thing in the world but you can cut it up so it fits your needs.
If you become a student of Heifetz, all you hear from him is "Do not use shoulder rest",
boy or girl. No explanation.
The student gradually understand and the wisdom why not.
I love it without shoulder rest.
You need to turn the face toward left and look toward the fingers.
Without shoulder rest you become more sensitive of your left hand movements.
🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
Thanks for your insights Filip.
What's your argument to those who insist on not using a shoulder rest? They claim that way their violin resonates freer with bigger sound. In theory that may be true, but I feel comfort is priority. Agree?
If I follow my ideal philosophy of simplicity and simplify by ditching the shoulder, then I'll be fussing with experimenting with the right chinrest or some pad......Which actually defeats the purpose of simplicity.
Thanks for your comment Sean! I agree that comfort is priority. Feeling comfortable when playing will always outweigh the benefits of a little more resonance to the violin.
It took me a while to find that kind of comfort without a shoulder rest (possibly because my first 12 years playing the violin were with a shoulder rest). However once I figured it out I discovered a ton of benefits to playing without a rest, which made me want to continue on this path.
That being said I don't think anybody should be forced to play a certain kind of way - it really is whatever works best for the individual.
I know plenty of incredible violinists who choose to play with a shoulder rest and I would never feel the need to restructure their playing.
Also comfort and simplicity are very subjective terms in this context. A pad or a sponge may be the definition of simplicity for some.
People often experiment with all different kinds of shoulder rests until they find the right one for them - making the shoulder rest "the more complicated route"
To sum it all up: Do whatever fits you the best and whatever makes you exploit your full potential! :)
@@filippogady Thanks Filip. Do you really play comfortably without a shoulder and without any little padding? Is that really possible? That is my ideal philosophy of simplicity! Please teach me your secret! I'm self-taught intermediate level.
Please enjoy, subscribe, and critique my violin / fiddle playing.
youtube.com/@seanleechild
Thanks!
Só faltou tradução pra português
I play without chin rest because chin resr hurt my neck. I always wanted to play without shoulder rest it hurts all the time. So.. basically you hold the violin and support it from falling with the left hand with your thumb?
not using a chin rest AND a shoulder rest is often done by baroque players as those two aids were invented much later. Also the repertoire didn't ask for shifting to such an extent as is does now. Not using a chin rest will make it very difficult to shift and will make it next to impossible to play modern repertoire that uses the full extent of the fingerboard (paganini, etc). This is the reason some baroque players tie a knot with a cloth around their tailpiece to give them at least a little support under the jaw. Quite amazing that this is the most comfortable way for you. It only proves that there is no 1 solution for everybody. Good luck on your journey :)
How do you KEEP your THUMB UNDER the neck? Mine slips off in about a second, leaving the neck trapped in the arch between thumb and first finger, from which I can play nothing and certainly can't vibrato. There is nothing to keep the violin from rotating left and right without a shoulder rest. AND, it seems to me when I watch you perform, your thumb is not always there either.
Struggling so hard with left hand here as well.... Been playing for one year for reference.
I tried it but it’s hard when doing shifts. What is your advice?
He says in the video to modify the chin rest.
Interesting to know how the others hold their violin without the shoulder rest.
Would you be doing a vid about bow holding? Has been struggling with bow holding for ages.
@@owen961228Yes, there's a video about that coming soon as well! I will cover both the bow hold as well as the entire right arm. Hope it will be helpful :)
@@filippogady can't wait for the vid. keep going man.
Yeah it's a really individual thing for sure.
Hi! I'm a beginner at violin and I don't have a shoulder rest. My collar bone is quite protruded so when I try to play, the front of my collarbone will hurt so bad and it will became red, do you have any idea how to fix that?
Since you are a beginner, there will be a few things that will hurt at first until your body gets used to them. Just like calluses develop on your fingers, your body adapts to you being a violinist.
If it is very uncomfortable, maybe you can try using a small towel or a sponge and placing it on your collar bone. If all else fails you can still play with a shoulder rest. There are plenty of incredible violinists out there who use one :)
@@filippogady thankyou for our response! I use a soft towel at first and slowly it doesn't hurt anymore, now I even feel more comfortable without a shoulder rest !
ive been playing without a shoulder rest because i have a short neck
thanks 👹
What is the model of your chin rest?
It was custom made by my violin maker. With the added self adhesive pads you can make pretty much any chin rest work in a similar fashion as mine. Guarneri is not a bad model, even though I find that side mounted chin rests make the violin sound slightly better.
I suppose now I'll have to play nothing but scales in order to check my urge to lift my shoulder for a week or so.
To play rest-less , a violin light and well balanced in weight is important
Playing without a shoulder rest will also give you monstrous biceps.