We Aren’t The Only Ones Who Hate Tom King’s Wonder Woman
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- Tom King’s take on Wonder Woman has been going for almost a year. And even his most ardent supporters are noticing that it isn't very good. Sales are most certainly better with Tom King at the helm, but the story quality (laking for some time in Wonder Woman) hasn't gotten noticeably better. At this point the series is just an aimless string of filler issues, where the most interesting developments happen off-panel. Wes is amazed the mainstream media are finally realizing just how terrible Tom King is on Wonder Woman. We aren't the only ones who hate Tom King’s Wonder Woman run.
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The fact Gunn wants him writing the movies tells me it’s a lost cause. I’m not paying 20 bucks to see a Tom King movie.
It be no difference from Snyder films just added oedipus in it.
I never will watch a Supergirl movie based in The Woman Of Tomorrow of Tom King. Lamest characterization of Kara ever.
Hey man. You can’t say that because You never been to college, man.(this is a joke comment.)
Ngl, i'm on James Gunn DCU like "i dunno, suprise me"
@@andresanguianozuniga6798Snyderverse surprised me. Not sure I want the same from Gunn
I just avoid any comic with Tom King’s name on it.
Me too. He becomed more toxic than Bendis in nowadays.
@@EvandroACruzbendis as bad as he is now is still better than tom king on his best day
I do that too.
You are wise.
@@dionlackey798I was a collector back when Bendis was in his heyday...and yeah, same go away energy between him and King. Both are terrible writers in the superhero genre.
Gunn using King will doom any DC movies based off his stories.
But Wes, don't you see? Tom King was the real villain antagonist all along. He is the one and only...Tomfoolery King!
It's weird reading Wonder Woman during the Wein and Perez era. She was a character that was full of hope and being an actual hero. The funniest thing is everyone now writes Diana like her Justice League 3000 counterpart, which was a series that portrayed the characters as missing the key memories that helped form them as heroes.
not the mention why DC to stuborn and to hard to change Diana suit back classic, the way isnt hard to bring Batman and Superman pants back
When you said he had written a Mister Miracle series, I thought, “Wait, is that the one notorious for having Mister Miracle be mopey and suicidal?” I looked it up and yep, it is. There are ways sensitive/serious subject matter can be done in comic books, but Tom King’s work feels more like the infamous Family Guy episode “Brian’s a Bad Father” where serious topics are brought up just to say, “Whee, look at how edgy we are!”
Edit- Oh, gosh, he did THAT Mr. Terrific story too!? My gosh…King just hates relationships.
@@karaoconnoraliasraidra there was also a scene with Darkside eating a cupcake or donut or something (can't remember but it was REALLy stupid.)
Greg Rucka Rebirth was my second favorite Wonder Woman run after George Perez. Amazing to think that was just 5 years ago.
(They also chose one if the worst Wonder Woman runs ever, Earth One, to represent the character in the DC compact line.)
I hate it and I finally dropped it. Now he is writing a Trinity series. Who asked for that? Nobody.
James Gunn/Disney fans: zack snyder's work is too dark and despressing
Also them: James gunn adapting Tom King stories will solve everything
Tom King is the reason I have no anticipation for Gunn’s DC. It doesn’t matter if you serve subversive crap better than others, it’s still crap and subversive. You can’t trust people that think it’s alright to treat the consumer as “less than.”
Subversion only works well when you aren't subversiving everything all the time. It's meant to happen rarely. To be a surprise. If everything he does just ends in a subversion, then you know he is just doing it for shock factor and just ends up destroying the brand and characters.
The people I don’t understand is the Tom King fan, I certainly think they are a certain type, any that I’ve interacted with usually all say the same thing, “you simply lack the intelligence to appreciate his writing”. As if King is a complete genius and you need a 150 IQ to understand his incredibly deep writing. They’re all midwits.
It’s like the Rick and Morty fandom. We’re all too stupid to get the joke, supposedly.
@@AL-ws5yilol, I was just going to reply with this. They are exactly like a certain kind of Rick & Morty fans
I'm a Tom King fan but I don't think it requires a high intelligence to get his stories. I just like his writing, he's one of the very few writers today that can absorb me into a story. I think he has cool ideas, and I generally find that the criticisms against him are either not valid or are just minor faults that are forgivable.
He can be pretty melodramatic in his writing, but I don't mind that.
I can definitely see why he's polarizing and I don't think his writing is for everyone. I don't agree that his fans are Tom King fans and not comic book fans. It's just different preferences.
Wes. You're the only channel I run into that reminds me of Tom King's Wonder Woman run.
Well there's other people that are reviewing Wonder Woman Tom King run I am torturing myself reading that garbage too but it just kind of like nobody wants to hear that hey Tom King's Wonder Woman run sucks lol
I don't really follow comics, but I like how you can give criticism without sneering, swearing or dog whistling. You're good to listen to. Thank you.
Wonder Woman needs fun pure fans stories like Thor got with Marvel, but using Olympic mythology. She needs fun iconic stories. She has none.
Thumbs up for having The Legend of Wonder Woman on the thumbnail. Great comic, way better than anything Tom King can come up with.
Tom King wrote in 10 issues what Mark Waid did in one with Absolute Power #1. Essentially the same story.
Even if Jim Lee was to do the covers and interior work, I would not pick up this steamer.
Tom King fans cannot accept that others do not think Mr. King is amazing.
I liked his stuff that's not superheros lol.
@@grandmarqueeMaybe he should just stick to only doing that and leave the comics, and super-heroes to other people who are way better at writing those kinds of stories, eh?
@@grandmarquee never even heard of his none Superhero stuff.
@@markhowd7117 I forgot the name of it but it took place during the Afghanistan war. I guess that was more in his wheelhouse because of his last job I presume.
i have the George Perez run, so i'm good.
Marvin Miller: Gee, Wendy. I miss the days when Wonder Woman presented Saturday Morning public service announcements for the Super Friends.
Wendy Harris: The More We Knew back then.
Tom King is one of the worst comic writers in the history of the industry.
He’s so bad, soooooo bad.
He and Bendis. Two terrible writers that damaged the industry for many years.
@@EvandroACruzthey’ve both done great and iconic stories tho
@@DeathWatch-jh3yx No.Both them sucked. Bendis ruined the Avengers and Scalert Witch. King did the worst modern Batman run of all times.
Add Jason Aaron,Tom Taylor and the present batch of social justice warriors.
King is emblematic of what’s wrong in modern comics. He read Alan Moore and decided that was what he wanted to do except Moore’s toenail clippings have more talent! It worked on Vision, but he has told the same story over and over (unless he’s blatantly ripping off True Grit).
Whenever King writes a story it never feels organic to the character. It’s just +50 issues of King rambling about his current opinions, using DC characters as a mouthpiece. Add in some mommy wives, abusive dads, violence when there should be talking, talking where there should be action and some subversive plot devices, added just for the sake of be subversive, and boom! Every story King has ever written.
If he is ex CIA, could it be that he is pushing propaganda onto readers and really has no true respect for the characters? He’s clearly far from a gifted writer and is a virtue signaler. So many ex CIA have been placed into media, social media, etc. to push agendas and attempt to be crowdmasters.
AH don't forget now King is gonna get to write Black Canary as well starting in November. Its seems that one will be Black Label, but lol I wouldn't be surprised if Green Arrow shows up in it she ends up hating Ollie by the mini-series. XP
I feel bad for Dinah fans.
Poor Black Label...Vertigo died for this?
@@andresanguianozuniga6798 Lol I feel its the Tom King Label since how many full "out of continuity" comics has he written for this label?
The Sovereign will be revealed to be compelled to tell the truth by the lasso. This is why he's being so effusive about Wonder Woman.
It'll be King's coup de grace. Towards the end Sovereign will speak on 'behalf' of us men by talking about his insecurities.
There'll be a metaphor for how 'toxic fanboys' don't like male characters being swapped with chicks too.
Chatgpt feminism. Nothing you haven't heard before from, literally, everywhere else.
So WB has enough money to keep printing a comic no one buys done by King.
Well someone is buying them.
Just like they have enough money to blow on Suicide Squad Kill the ArkhamVerse.
Minus $200 Million....
Honestly, I don't think anyone actually likes King. Don't forget that many of these "creators" get a lot of support on social media, but in the end, the only support that counts is the one coming from our pockets. I'll admit he fooled me in the beginning , too. THE VISION mini-series got plenty of raving reviews and I fell for it. I found the book interesting, but woke up mid-story to ask the unavoidable question: "Now what?! How can we bring Vision back? Is this an elseworld-like story?" And this is exactly what you state, Wes: King writes stories that may be interesting to some, but does so under well-known titles, using well-established characters, and desecrating them and their legacy in the process. Were King honest, he would write his own books under Image or crowdfund them. But we all know how that would end up, don't we? The only reason this guy keeps working, is that he keeps delivering "The Message", and the brass in Marvel and DC want that.
I was looking forward to Jenny Sparks until I saw he was writing. I won’t be picking it up in case he destroys The Authority too. Edit it just occurs to me with an Authority movie in the works, it could be partly based on this.
The Authority in DCU don't make any sense.
I truly think that TK needs a co-writer to flesh out/facilitate/filter out his ideas.
Tom King & Jason Aaron, the top writers when it comes to breaking and destroying characters because the characters aren't who they want them to be and don't stand for what they want them to stand for.
Let’s not act like the past 10 years of wonder woman has been The gold standard. CloonRad, Wilson, Orlando, Robinson, tamaki, Fontana . Hell even rucka lost steam early on in rebirth only bolstered by Liam sharps art. Hell even before rebirth Meredith finch was bashed for her run.
So let’s stop acting like Tom king hamstrung a character that really never did that well in comic sales to begin with
She was doing fine in the 1980s when George Perez was in control of the character and comic book. But then DC Comics had to go and change her into one of Zeus' many illegitimate demi-god children just because they wanted to update her origin. If it ain't broke, then they shouldn't have tried to fix it. Now she is a clusterfuck of a hot mess. She would still be selling well and she would still be popular enough in the "mainstream" if they had just never changed her and left her the way she was decades ago, back in the year 1987.
@incubustimelord5947 Wrong, even with Perez run, she wasn't a top seller. It gave her a little boost, but she was still getting outsold by the likes of Green Lantern and Flash. It's just a fact that Wonder Woman has never been a top seller, she only ever gets a little boost when a new creative team is put on her. She's always been the lowest selling member of the "Trinity".
Yeah no not really she was tanking in the sales hard untill Perez revitalized her post crisis. And even after Perez left the title slumped again. But that was 40 years ago I’m talking of the past 10 years since the tail end of new 52
This will be a Hot Take but... Wonder Woman is an Iconic picture, and not much else.
She doesn't have an iconic book like "The Dark Knight Returns" or "All-Star Superman."
Her continuity makes Hawman's look simple by comparison.
She has no iconic nemesis even normies know like Lex Luthor or Joker.
People like her because she was in the "Justice League" animated series, but in 70-odd years, she's never had a solo animated show, maybe because she works better in an ensemble than on her own or maybe because no one can figure out how to make her connection to Greek myths work in the DC universe.
No one can take away her significance within DC and the comics medium, but if one thinks about the practical facts that her books have never been top sellers, that she has never experienced wide ranging success in other mediums, and even in-canon, the events in her books have very little consequence to the wider universe.... Someone could suspect that she's really a "Symbol" not a character, propped up for "Feminism" and no other reason.
But that's a "Hot Take" that is perhaps completely wrong.
@@gojira387So I guess you don’t recall or watched her 70s Television show?
This is why the Perez, Loeb, and Byrne runs will always be my favorite take on Wonder Woman because, unlike King, they understand the character.
@@brandonscott4808 you took me back! Perez’s run was so epic I wished that the movies featured more elements of it.
I dropped this garbage after issue 2. King take on Wonder Woman is abysmal. Your Diana is a condescending jerk to all mans. When DC will kick this guy out of your office?Bendis leaved DC for much less.
Tom King is a hack
Yes, talentless and overrated.
and you WONDER why.
I have no interest in Gunn's DC Universe with Tom King as a writer. He seems to want to do do these overly complex stories for every character, even the side characters. I have no interest. I've been anting their iconic stories to finally be adapted in live action. That's obviously never going to happen. We traded Snyder for Tom king.
He can't write. Simple as that. Even if he starts off with an okay idea, it's in the gutter, 4 to 5 issues later, if not sooner. And this is the idiot James Gunn brought in, to further ruin the movies. If he's paid to do anything, it should be to stay home, and not work on anything comicbook related.
Comics are going through a challenging era. I thought Wonder Woman was a pretty good 'all ages'
Superhero comic until about 2020.
I abruptly stopped picking it up .
Now that comics are very expensive I've decided to cut my collecting down to only Green Lantern related books and appearances. Trust me GL alone is enough to drive any working man broke.
That being said; I've read many Tom King DC books:
Omega Men
Robin
War
Batman
Heroes in Crisis
Danger Street
Mister Miracle
Human Target
Strange Adventures
Among others.
I think Tom should write super hero novels for 20-30 year olds.
I don't think he's an outright bad writer. I'd say his take on the characters is an acquired taste.
He adds a lot of internal turmoil to characters that have never been viewed as more than cosmetic avengers of justice. But DC does have a rich pantheon of characters
With deep stories and motivations.
I think if Tom would try to utilize more familiar and popular continuity
Points Hed have more success appealing to DC faithful.
It's like when he writes he assumes everyone is on his page.
I'd like to see him tackle characters like Parallax Hal Jordan.
Set in the 90s. Like an untold saga of Hal Jordan during that period.
we still have golden age Wonder Woman
What's most troubling is that I've met Tom King and talked with him very casually and he is knowledgable and quite nice. But IMO nearly everything has been off the rails since Batman #50 and the infamous wedding debacle.
They've seemingly always made Wonder Woman way too muscular. She's super-powered; she would have the most petite arms because things wouldn't weigh enough to worl out.
We can settle in normal arms and not be concerned about it,
But instead we constantly get people trying to make her look like a trans.
She should look like the way that she did in the late 1980s. George Perez made the gold standard.
With all the crappy, subpar creators at DC and Marvel, it's hard to single out one as the worst but Tom King is absolutely my least favorite. I won't buy anything he writes for any reason. He employs the most disgusting and cynical kind of deconstructionism. The number of hero characters he's infected with kinks, fetishes and mental neuroses is truly sad.
Tom king's wonder woman run truly has nothing done with the premise,wonder woman or the sovereign. This book is nothing but a vessel to promote trinity the so called "daughter of Diana".
why is he still at dc😭
He had a mother who was a former high-level, high-ranking member of the Warner Bros. Corporation's Executive Board of Directors. He is also a C.I.A. field agent, too.
His mommy was a big exec at WB at some point I think
@@incubustimelord5947 thats crazy
@@smoothlettuce940 It's also scary and true as well.
Talent should speak for itself, doesn’t matter what he did before hand or who he knows. He can’t write superheros
I guess one of those projects is Black Canary. On one hand, at least we'll get a well drawn Black Canary. Of course, we'll have to deal with his "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" writing.
Sounds like he went full Bendis...
I tried reading his “groundbreaking” Mr Miracle series. It was absolutely awful. Darkseid with a vegetable tray? Scott Free suicide?
Comics are slowly becoming the world of South Park and The Boys combined
How do you fail at Wonder Woman? Tom King is just that bad.
I don't understand how Tom King or Jason Aaron gets any work. Their like the same person, but one has an oedipus complex, and the other thinks deconstruction is being "creative".
DC loves having WW and whatever money she may bring, but there is zero love shown to her again and again. Sovereign easily could’ve been folded into Amanda Walker’s Absolute Evil plan as an ally.
On another note, is the mandate to throw out only Amazons (naturally or descending from Themyscyran line or Amazonian (anyone who is Amazon like)?
Bruh, I was never interested in Tom King's Wonder Woman, but after I heard "the US Military is kicking out Amazonians," I know I'm never touching that book. The first reason is that no one wants to kick out a super hot warrior chicks out of their country. The second reason is that it seems like a lazy and tired excuse to try and inject politics in. Comic fans are 100% okay with having villains that belong in the military and have political influence, but we don't like modern-day politics reflected in our stories. Comics are an escape, not a place for us to experience the most infuriating part of our daily lives. And if you are even going to attempt that, then you better have a story that will be remembered positively for the next 20 years.
Not only that...
Why Amazonians are in the US in the first place?
Wasn't Themycyra an idilic place?
America has ice cream, battery powered sex toys, and indoor plumbing. We get Themyscara tourism.
@@andresanguianozuniga6798almost like if you read the story they might explain it
I know it’s polarizing but fortunately I’m on the side that is enjoying the run. With the exception of the shopping issue. Pretty bad. Sampere’s art is next level. While I agree there has been a bit too much narration. It is not a deal breaker for me. I enjoyed this video and your take despite having a different opinion. Hope you find some books you enjoy.
I'm more frustrated that angry... i like the idea of many of her villains uniting and Even some of the political side of the DC Universe.
But is Bad in it's ideology...there is a point where it seems more like Anti-US propaganda rather than a coherent work.
I feel bad for Sampere, the art is GORGEOUS.
Just like how you explained it in your previous video was about Batman the Caped Crusader and Bruce Timm. This is exactly what's happening with Tom King's writing he's gone the way of how Bruce Timm does his.
The old Defenders # 45 did a good job with it's elements and script related to Rush and their album 2112. And the issue is 'Dedicated To Neil, Geddy, And Alex'. Another reason Marvel was hipper than DC in the 70's.
I don't hate Tom King's Wonder Woman because you can't hate something you don't care to read.
Wow! King's Wonder Woman is my book of the year.
I love that Wonder Woman’s great new catchphrase is the same as the useless lamp droid from RISE OF SKYWALKER.
King is the J.J. Abrams of comics.
I had been collecting WW since 2009 and stopped when tom king took over
King's run has been uneven, but far from the worse. The problem with Wonder Woman, historically, is that she has no definitive characteristics. She has been written differently almost her entire existence. If she has a definitive theme it is as a bondage fetish. King is writing that theme as an allegory for patriarchal bondage.
That's only because Tom King has a mommy wife fetish, and her having a B+D/D+S/S+M connection is something that appeals to him. If anything, Wonder Woman has always been consistently a magical female warrior from ancient Greek and Roman mythologies, and a patriotic female American super-hero ever since World War Two. Those are the two main things that Princess Diana, a.k.a. "Diana Prince" of the Amazons from Themyscira, a.k.a. "Paradise Island" should always be. Everything else is either secondary or just background.
I mean Wes I'm glad somebody besides us is saying how terrible this Wonder Woman run is because it's hot garbage I'm putting myself through torture because I promise some of the viewers of the channel and I was going to review one on because they know I like Wonder Woman and I've been trying to prove the people how great Wonder Woman is as a character but DC keeps killing it and Tom King don't help at all and it's just like damn. But I've been saying that for a while now I was like no Tom King Wonder Woman run sucks no matter what though the run just sucks all complete ass
I think this story had much potential and just never really delivered. I almost hope there is a sequal done by someone else but I will give T.K. credit for a good premise but he dropped the ball, again.
His animal pound comic is great. But he can’t write a super hero story because he wants to write his story not a Batman story or a wonderwoman story.
mr king needs to focus on original comics I think that's were a writer like him belongs
Lol! His original comic book would just be a vessel for his fetishes and his super-hero characters would just be perfect examples of his what he likes finally revealed to the public.
@@incubustimelord5947 at least he wouldn't be ruining the established charcters
I don't know anything about Jenny Sparks, but I know she's screwed.
and thanks to james gunn we will never be rid of king.
Bear in mind that Max and phycologist guy what’s his name could’ve been inspired to make that character directly by the Queen of Heaven and her sweet cakes as referred to by Jeremiah.
...Wonder Woman is a figurine made of clay with life breathed into her. She can look like ANYTHING her mother wanted and still be as powerful as she rightfully is, because she's MAGIC. I hate that we got jealous women constantly whining about how 'unrealistic' WW is. And I'm not a big fan of WW!
The ART is what is carrying the Wonder Woman book.
and now he’s going to write black canary and detective comics 🤦🏼♂️ really…
The run feels weirdly spiteful, honestly. It's almost like Tom King doesn't really agree with the ideals and philosophy that WW stands for, so he is putting her in situations that don't make sense to compromise her character and morality.
Tom King sucks the fun right out of comics
Sad to hear this. The drawing and colors look really good. I was hoping the story was at least ok.
I despise TK’s writing. I despise his ideas.
Sampere is a great artist. He has a crisp, clean, dynamic style. But his WW looks like a trans often, with those huge shoulders and lack of sex appeal.
I think the artist is trying to figure out the proportions. He draws her face very well.
Glad to not own a single King Slayer book.
The anti-Amazon run was so awful. The comic run was basically men = bad. Either somehow happy life = bad according 2 the comic.
I said from the very beginning of his Batman run that he was terrible. I am Gotham was okay. I am Suicide was awful and was just the first glimpse into all of King’s tropes that he continued throughout the entire run and every single series he writes since. He’s obviously never had any positive masculine role models in his life. Every single male character is ineffectual, feminine, and overly emotional. Then he had Bruce eat a burger with a knife and fork. Gtfoh Tom.
11:35 Regarding Wonder Woman's looks, I'm not saying the muscular look is wrong, but at the same time we're talking about comic book characters with superpowers. What is the "realistic" look for somebody who can swing a tank around by its cannon? Hulk and Thor couldn't life the weights they lift in comics in real life whether you draw them as heavily muscled or looking more like Pee Wee Herman. The question of how they "should" look should, at least in part, be determined by what the audience wants because these comics are supposed to be commercially successful.
Ughh I can't believe DC is still letting this man write for them. Nothing he does is good
Tom King only has one story to tell and he told it already in Sheriffs of Baghdad
The relationship between Diana and Steve isn't good and I'd really like it if DC stopped pretending as if it was interesting when we all know it isn't.
To me, Steve Trevor yes or yes needs to be in her past...in WW1 or WW2.
They not being together not only keeps Diana independent and explores the fact she gets old slowly, but gives Steve a real dramatic weight in her lore.
I really liked that in the 2017 movie in part for that.
@@andresanguianozuniga6798He is nothing but a male damsel in distress.
How is that guy still getting work?
Maybe they heard that people were talking about Tom King’s work and didn’t realize that the talk was mostly bad.
He is a C.I.A. operative. His late mother also had a lot of influence at Warner Bros., too.
@@karaoconnoraliasraidra if Tom Brevoorr is correct there really is no such thing as bad publicity
Why tom king is even employed why in dc non the less he doesn't deserve one character to work on
Awesome work mate
Ugh, Taylor is going to do a book with Damian.
Oh and the Superman/Wonder Woman issue was good. Their relationship is always amazing but he didn't go in depth with it like he said he would. So he loses points for that.
Now Steve Trevor is going to die! King doesn’t even want to elevate Steve either!
Well I mean, he DID die in the movies too. TWICE.
Good. Keep him on WW so he never show up on a Superman book.
That awesome artwork is wasted on a hack like King
tom king is going to be on this for 100 issues. God dammit!! why did they give the same deal he had on Batman!!?
Tom king wants that Hollywood money...so he is writing tv shows in comics like the arrow verse...
Good to exceptional art can always carry bad or inferior writing. If King is still under contract, and there are open titles to fill, DC will probably give him opportunity at the title. Otherwise they end up paying him for doing nothing. People will buy this cause it looks good. I've said my piece on King before. Only person ever make me stop reading Batman. WTF20.
The only Tom King run I like is Grayson
Why the heck DC even TOM DUMB KING ARE to stuborn to turn DIANA suit back classic !
This is what Tom King does and the art is saving the book. I’m a fan of Tom King but he needs a good editor to keep him on point.
Yeah an editor that says hi Tom good bye.
Tom King should be banned from writing comics for life. Infantile nonsense and twitter propaganda.
Honestly it's amazing how wonder woman isn't the absolute most wokest comic book on the market by light years... all the ingredients are there but there's way worse on shelves!
Shame that great art going to waste...damn shameful.
You need to do this on the flash too si spurrier ruined that book
Why does Tom King keep getting work