Hidden Mechanics Analysis | Helldivers 2 Guide | Durable Damage; Armour Penetration; Angled Hits
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มิ.ย. 2024
- In this video I analyse the hidden mechanics in Helldivers 2, looking at: Durable Damage; Squishy Parts; Durable Body Parts; Explosive damage split; Explosive damage AOE; Squishy layers theory; Armour Penetration levels; Angled Armour Hits.
#Helldivers2 #helldiversguide
LINKS:
Visual reference guide (Steam Guide) - steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...
Patreon - / gamingexistence
Discord Server - / discord
Wagadidou’s Spreadsheet - / diversdex_your_pokedex...
Wiki Armour Pen levels - helldivers.wiki.gg/wiki/Templ...
Other videos:
Support Weapon analysis on heavy bugs - • Support Weapons Analys...
Armour Penetration analysis bugs - • Armour Penetration Ana...
FAQ/Corrections:
It is confirmed through data mining the AR-23 has got 6 Durable Damage now FYI.
Zeddy from the wiki team (/u/zeddypanda on TikTok) suggests it is impossible to have half numbers, these numbers are always rounded down, from extensive testing they have done. This lowers the AR-23 and P tests a bit closer to the others. 23P 855 DMG. AR-23 840 DMG. Although it also lowers the 23-C to 815.
Another point from Zeddy is that Damage should not go over 100%. If the normal damage is dealing 10% to the squishy part, then the Durable Damage can't be 100%, it must be 90%. This could be true and still works with my tests, just lowers the numbers a tad. As of now nobody can confirm this theory though. The 100% theory could also explain the Scorcher test results.
Q1) What is data mining?
A1) This is a process where people extract data from the game files. This data is normally downloaded and run through another tool such as a hex editor, this helps to decipher the data into useful information.
Q2 Why Could you not find any durable body parts that are not Squishy?
A2) Currently there are no confirmed parts that are Durable Only. In Wagadidou’s spreadsheet I went looking and a few parts were thought to be Durable only such as the Devastator torso. I ran the data and discovered they took normal damage, not Durable Damage. There was a theory that Bot dropships, or the HMG Turret might be Durable only, but I did not test those.
Q3) The Scorcher test, why would the extra Durable Damage on the explosion not apply like you suggest?
A3) it is only a guess, that on Squishy Durable Parts it does not apply as it would be doubling the damage. Perhaps there are enemies or will be enemies soon that will take no damage from normal explosive AOE or a reduced amount, but will take the Durable Part, much like how the Squishy Parts work on bugs now. Or Perhaps the Durable AOE only applies to structures? I really don’t know.
Q4) Where did this layer theory come from and what do you mean the Concussive should have the same damage as the AR23?
A4) This information had been bouncing around in the Wiki team and I thought I would test it. The Layer Theory only cares about damage and armour penetration, in which the AR-23 and AR23C are effectively the same weapon in that regard, they should have had the exact same amount of shots to kill and damage totals. But they are wildly different. What is quite compelling, is that in my data set the 4 layers for the medium armour pen weapons and 2 layers for the light pen do match up quite nicely with a bit of variance on the AR-23. This could be a coincidence though and once again the AR-23C then ruins the data.
Q5) Why do you pronounce TH words weirdly or put the word “Three” on the screen in text at various points?
A5) It has been made aware to me, ((often in a nasty way :’( in the comments)), that I don’t pronounce words with TH very well, instead making the FFF sound. For clarity I have started putting the text on screen to be clear on what I am saying. “You get (three) ammo”, instead of what people may hear as, “You get (fffree) ammo”. As a child I had speech ffferapy ;) because I still had not spoken at 4 years of age. This is likely the reason I have not developed a very good TH in my pronunciation. P.S. My Mum sometimes wishes I never learned to speak as I now don’t shut up :)
0:00 Intro
0:13 Durable DMG Info
0:45 Squishy Parts
1:51 Explosive DMG Split
3:17 Durable DMG Tests
6:20 Two Other Theories
8:12 Armour Penetration - เกม
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The description has links to my written reference guide for this video. It also has a FAQ and corrections section. Feel free to drop a comment and I may well add it to that section. Thank you for watching and I will see you next time!
Maybe I'm just simple minded here, but my thoughts are that durable damage does durable parts, my guess this either applies to armor plates such as a charger leg being blown off to reveal squishy parts, or this may just or also be the dismemberment mechanic. So durable damage to the head of a brood mother or legs to cause dismemberment , or the arms and legs of bots.
TLDR: outdated speculation
Your breakdowns, editing and style really put your helldivers mechanic videos ahead of anyone else I've seen.
Thanks for actually giving values instead of saying "its bad, its good. Why doesn't it one shot?" Thanks for being a diamond
The piece your missing about durable damage is that enemy durability is a sliding scale. A percentage. Part of the damage comes from the main stat and the rest comes from durable damage.
50% durable?
Damage * 50% + Durable * 50% = total damage
90% durable?
Damage * 10% + Durable * 90% = total damage
25% durable?
Damage * 75% + Durable * 25% = Total damage
In this way you could also say that durable damage is the minimum damage dealt. And the durable% is the damage resistance of that enemy part.
Yeah, exactly this. The damage is linearly interpolated (lerped) to a value in between the normal damage and durable damage based on the durability value. Lerps are really common in game programming.
@@GogTheCaveman If that's the case, then weapon damage could literally be displayed in inventory like in the old Diablo days: 50-100 Impact, 100-100 Explosive. I genuinely don't understand why Arrowhead insist on showing us misleading stats.
@@Malidictus most likely to keep immersion while conveying basic stats about weapons or they thought it would be overwhelming.
@@previcity1258 My question was rhetorical. Pilestedt has hinted at Arrowhead deliberately obscuring stats to keep players from min/maxing, with the belief that this will push players into choosing what they like. The problem is that that doesn't work. Games have been trying it on and off for decades. All this approach produces is superstitions, rumours and metas. When players are prevented from understanding how the game works, they by and large latch on to the first build that works and don't experiment - because the game doesn't let them.
People like this video's creator are absolutely invaluable, but also incredibly rare. Hiding the stats doesn't make the game less overwhelming. It makes it more so. Those stats are still there and they still matter. Players will eventually piece together that something is going on, but won't know what or how to react to it.
I'm confused, can you explain it to a child so an idiot like myself can better understand? Please?
Thank you for this much overdue investigation into Durable Damage!! Very helpful
huge brain analysis, i loved your deep rock content and im loving your hd2 breakdowns 🔥🔥🔥
This is some ultra nerdy stuff man, I LOVE IT! Keep up the great work 😊
I don't know when damage falloff at range might start, but that could be a skewing factor in your data as well.
My initial thought with durable damage was it could be the portion of the bullet damage that isn't affected by squishy bits. So like the LibP does 45 damage of which 30 is normal and 15 is durable; against a squishy part each bullet is effectively 15+10%*30=18 damage while the regular lib is 5+10%*50=10 damage. The adjudicator/defender are still outliers but at least when assumed to be this way the ingame tooltips are still accurate as far as bullet damage vs normal targets.
This was amazingly presented and very enlightening. Instant subscribe!!
i hate games that hide the great majority of stats they have, then we need to rely on data mining to get stuff and that pisses off devs, i want a more advanced tab for the statistics in helldivers somewhere in the future
It literally takes 2-3 missions running each weapon against each faction to learn what the weapon is good at and what it isn't good at. Everything is Helldive viable, and some are downright strong.
@@T4nkcommanderNo, thats what it takes to "eyeball" something. Which is subjective and can be very inaccurate.
We needs objective stats rather than relying on people wasting hours of their lives to test this shit.
@@SuperCatacata It is pretty easy to record and watch a video to see how weapons perform against different parts of an enemy.
Just wanted to drop a comment that your content is absolutely incredible. Definitely the standard of quality from both showing the math, and keeping the presentation concise and clean. Just great stuff.
Always facinating to learn about the layer of depth in this game. Thank you for time and work put into this video.
Thank you for this video editing! This is incredibly nice to look at!
good work, thanks for testing for all of us
Excellent video as always, thanks GE!
Thanks 4 the analysis. Greatly helpful. About the durable dmg part I believe it as simple as if the part of the bug/automoton if marked as durable/squishy the part it self only take durable damage. So squishy belly of all spewer only take durable dmg from liberator(10%) but almost full dmg from laser cannon and explosives.
Awesome! Very interesting stuff!
This video has left me with even more questions!
Your videos are always so mind blowing awesome
Excellent vid as always
Great work
Knowing the stats sheds light on underrated stratagems such as the Orbital Precision Strike. It's actually pretty comparable to the 500kg bomb in terms of penetration and damage, allowing it to destroy research stations, detector towers, and one shot most heavy enemies.
Found ya guide on Steam by chance, then realized I’m already subbed to you on here. Great stuff!
Extremely high quality 👍
This is quality, information-dense content!
Thank you, you are levels over any Helldivers 2 youtubers I've seen so far. While most people are basic and only look at most obvious numbers, you approach it like a scientist. Super Earth needs more True Patriots like you! Have you heard about hidden armor mechanics? Another youtuber Jonny Law has a video about colors aggroing enemies, squishy-part-like mechanics and more. Guys like you are real assets.
Man, it's almost like all of this damage should have been in the sodding game, instead of having to be data-mined and brute-forced by the community. Thank you for doing the work that Arrowhead won't - and all of the extra work besides due to the limited tools available to a player.
I always look forward to one of your videos! I can't even imagine how many hours you put into each video, really appreciate all effort and amazing quality you put in to make each video for the community. Does it get frustrating to be in the process of making one of these only to find a recent update has changed your data?
I wish this stuff was ingame, but watching videos like this is nice
It makes sense AH woulent give us 100% of stats as that would greatly hinder and confuse casuals.
A middle ground could easily be achieved by providing more than the 4 stats we have currently though... Sound profile, muzzle velocity, fall-off range, etc
Like they did with diablo 3, allow players to turn on additional stats that casuals will never find ot use
Few things make me like a game less than hiding like 90% of relevant information from players.
It would be better if it were like the first game where less data was given. Try out the weapons - a few games will tell you more than the stats ever will, if you have the brain to process the data.
At 5:40 you're pointing out that the Scorcher is inconsistent needing 1040 damage over 4 shots, but at 3 shots you're only at 780 damage; 20 damage shy of the lowest damage needed to kill the spewer with the Adjudicator. Only the fact that you're dealing with such a huge step upwards does it seem like it "needs" 1040 damage.
Alternative title: “How to kill spewers in the most efficient way possible”
Wait... Terry, is that you? If thats you, youre doing gods work.
My thoughts, 'Durable Damage' may be special damage that's applied to breakable parts, chipping away at their 'durability' while the round also does damage normally.
One anomaly I’ve noticed regarding red/white hit markers happens when you fire a Dominator against bot Strider’s crotch area: only the last hit that kills it shows a red x. I wonder if that has to do with depleting the durability damage
Could it be that when you destroy the strider, it deals critical damage to the pilot and it's actually this that shows up as a red marker?
The again, this wouldn't be a Dominator-exclusively phenomenon as you suggest.
@@HasekuraIsuna I think you're correct. I've noticed it on others as well such as Hulk faceplates with AMR.
I love this channel. I like your style. I like that you just say how it is. No crying. No whining. Just "hey, want to learn something diver?" Yes. Yes i do.
I swear everytime we think we understand this game's armor and penetration damage system, we learn that there some smaller other things underlying all of it. Lol
Ah yes. Good video games often have "hidden and difficult to understand mechanics" that players have no access to by default. Very good, AH. Very good.
A few missions with a weapon should give you most of this data intuitively if you pay attention at all.
I really dislike that having in-depth stats for enemies like damage numbers, damage resistances, health mechanics is being gatekept from us. It would be a massive quality of life to know the damage we are dealing, it would encourage testing out new gear too. I think having a type of in-game bestiary for new enemies we encounter would be great at understanding the damage vulnerabilities and resistances, and would enable us to understand how to use weapons like the spear to its fullest potential.
Completely disagree, they obviously keep this stuff secret to encourage videos like this, and also add to the super earth incompetence not letting people actually understand the enemies
I kind of think it's good that we don't have those.
These hidden ways things work, allow for speculation and testing, they allow weapons to be good against a target if you shoot it in a specific spot, without being better than another weapon entirely.
I kind of wish we didn't have the four stats we do have, because people get caught up comparing those four visible stats and whining that some guns are " direct downgrades", instead of just using the guns and figuring out what works and what doesn't.
We don't have these numbers in real life.
Might have some numbers after extensive testing, but no one is going to sit here and tell me how much HP damage like an AR-15 does or how much HP a human has.
@@PropheticShadeZthat’s just code speak for the developers being dumb, stop feeding into the cringe RP by justifying bad game choices using said RP, you’re better than that.
@@kamikeserpentail3778 you’ve yet to give a reason why it’s a good thing to keep these important stats hidden. The people are crying about downgrade literally BECAUSE they don’t know these stats or how they work with the game, they see the four numbers/armor pen and that’s all they really have to work off of. Yes we don’t have these numbers in real life because this is a Player versus enemy VIDEO GAME. Take your Reddit paragraphs and shove em bro
Completely disagree with your moronic reasoning which is devoid of any logic or reasoning.
I would honestly have thought I was schizo if not for some of your videos. A lot of this game's mechanics feel like they don't actually exist and it's all in your head. Somehow it feels like a good thing, but it's definitely a relief to know that I'm not THIS bad at aiming and angle does actually matter, just as the tooltips say.
P.S. has it been considered that enemies may have different limb and body health? That's what I always assumed. There may be different health pools for each limb (charger butt, charger head, hulk arm, hulk heat sink, etc) and some simply trigger an instant or delayed death if destroyed. That may explain the inconsistencies in spewer testing as the spewer head/top may be a different 'limb' and it may be contributing to a total health pool death. It's possible to deal more than a charger's 'full' health if you shoot each of its legs and then its butt with an EAT, in my experience.
I'm not sure what to take away from this video.
That the balance team at Arrowhead really sucks at math.
That spear can one hit kill bile titans every time, you just have to pray more
weapon stats AH provide ingame doesn't show the whole picture, there are hidden stats for you to discover by actually using them.
Yeah I got that sense halfway through and stopped watching. No clear conclusion is a time suck
That different body parts have different amounts of damage resistance, independent of damage resistance from armour.
the time it takes to make a video the new warbond comes out. if only arrowhead was able to understand how their weapons work before they throw them in game live. but great work as always
They clearly have a very well developed system but despite you not knowing it you don't think they know what they are doing. Classic gamer brain
@@T4nkcommander yes well developed where 49% of the discord users currently don't like the warbond very observerant of you
@@LegendaryGTR because they want a pay to win bond that allows them to steamroll Helldives when they refuse to learn the game. Most of us are actually just playing and having fun.
@@T4nkcommander Enjoy your major order
@@LegendaryGTR been running Helldives for nearly ten years now....lots of fun!
the 10% if not explosive isn't actually correct, some non explosive weapons deal like 20-30%, it's a specific value they set per weapon afaik
Be interested to see after the next patch what the Tenderizer's hidden stat is. Does it have a very high Durable DMG value to make up for what looks to be middling base stats?
The damage and armor pen value tables are really interesting especially comparing the walking barrage to the 380mm barrage. They are both firing 380mm shells but in a different way. If the walking barrage has 0 armor pen for the splash damage but the 380mm barrage does this is showing a big discrepancy. The balance team or whoever is entering the damage table values are either terrible at math or they are letting stupid entry mistakes go through.
I think the rational for such discrepancies is because a walking barrage with high armored pen would mean you could clear all enemies in front of you, since is the most predictable barrage. Making it a OP, so there is the arbitrary balancing.
As a side note, I think you can shoot bile spewers through their body and still hit the head
yay!
Wouldn't it make more sense if the AoE also gets squishy part DR and durable damage stays the same?
(10 + 50 + 10 + 100) * 4 = 680 or times 5 for 850 damage.
Which would mean 5 shots to kill and the durable damage to normal damage behaviour is consistent.
Is it possible "enemy size" matters to the damage they receive? Like they have to have a mechanic for size, (because the Orbital rail gun will always prioritize the largest). And that thing kills pretty much anything regardless of where or who it hits.
I miss DRG vids. But this good too
The lack of transparency with weapon functions is not going to be smiled upon for long.
If you can't be bothered to enjoy the weapons as intended don't let the door hit you on the way out.
I am sorry but i kept seeing that guy who made the chart’s name as “Wagledildo”….
Sorry to him for that but i can’t unsee it lmao. Also, great video
So what does heat do as a damage trait? LAS-16 Sickle has Heat as a trait.
It's pronounced Wagadidou.
Can you link the work of Wagadidou (french helldivers) he took him a long time to do this so;;;
i want to know more about scythe thank you
All i know is that liber-tea goes brrrrrrrr!!!
The gunship engine is entirely durable afaik
Deserved more views. Nice investigation.
My theory is that the plasma punisher is 90% explosive damage
They should just show hit numbers. Good video though
This game is driving me freaking insane with the stuff in won't tell/ Why do I need to spend 10 hours for one weapon jost to know it kills spewer's but 3 times faster that others
Because you are supposed to figure it out and have fun experimenting. You get hundreds of hours of replayability end game because of it. The last HD1 update added random load outs because the community was already running them manually. Won't be too long before we do that for HD2 too
Do we know the Durable Damage value of the new AR Tenderizer? Right now it seems way worse than the Liberator, but maybe the hidden value is good?
6 like Standard Lib
@@quentinwr8226 The description says that Liberator's Durable Damage wasn't changed, but the sheet says it's 6. Did the value actually change?
@@MartaBunny Seem that's lib was 55/5 and now it's 60/6
@@quentinwr8226 Updated the description. Thanks!
wait so they modeled the armor angle as well？？？？？I am so shocked now since this mechanic is usually modeled in vehicle combat game but very few tps arcade game would model it…
Yes, if your angle is too high you do lower damage and might not even pierce the armor. The angle also affects the ricochet so if someone conveniently stands there they're dead.
Don't let AH see this video or they will change everything hahaha
God I wish the devs just explained all of this by themselves... but then we wouldn't have such an amazing anlysis and breakdown content
Um...squishy parts take 10% from normal weapons but 100% from an explosive weapons.
So a normal weapon deals more dmg to the armored parts because it's only -50% dmg, rather than -90%??????????????
I am so confused. Anyone who understands, please elaborate. Help!
Squishy, or exposed parts, are durable thus they take only 10% damage unless its explosive. However, these parts has a lower armor rating and usually easy to hit. If you have a high penetration weapon like an anti tank rocket, its better to hit their head instead, which are armored but has lower HP and is "lethal" weak point meaning if destroyed the enemy is dead.
@@Misfiring89 Owhhhhhhh I think I get you now. So lightly armored places, the durable parts are more exposed, more easily hit but takes more shots to whittle down the health whereas the armored parts, has lower health but much higher resistances, so armor pen weapons are super effective against them but not as effective against squishy parts because of the much higher health, right?
@@samzhuoling4467 Yes basically. The 10% is also just a generalization. Each weapon has a hidden "durable" damage that affects how much damage you do to these parts. Light AP weapons all have very low durable damage, whereas Medium AP weapon may have lower raw damage but they always have higher durable damage, making them much more effective if you have to shoot these parts (for example all vents in tanks and cannons are exposed durable parts)
@@Misfiring89 oh, that cleared some things up, thank you for your patience in explaining!
My favorite thing about this video is the AH shill in the comment section telling people how all the hidden information is good actually.
Armored bile spewers is bs
Spreadsheets for Helldivers are crazy >_>
HAHA this........ is why balancing is FUCKED!!!!! we need balancing in this fucking game ASAP!!!!! 4:00
These secret stats need to be made public, in-game. I dont care, make it a major order. We have to build and protect R & D labs. Whatever. Just MAKE ALL DATA EASILY PUBLICLY AVAILIBLE.
only information I find "the weapons sux"
Why are you so breathy my guy?
My conclusion is that this is needlessly complicated and offers no apparent and immediate complexity to the game that is easy enough to understand or meaningful enough to offer depth. If this is their idea of 50 different stats per gun then perhaps they should explain all this shit instead of trying to hide everything.
ngl, i watched the entire video and the only thing i got out of it is "i dno. shit's strange and confusing. nothing really makes sense. things could be this or that way. anyway, byyyyyye."
We need better statistician
Don’t you get tired of being the dev’s testing rat? I know I do.
So many people cant seem to understand how armor works. Most enemies have soft spots that go unexploited. Yet very few people actually make an attempt to understand their foes. It pays to be observant on the battlefield. For the most part you can take down just about anything with any weapon. How you go about it is going to change. Depending on weapon it might be more efficient to shoot for the limbs than the body. or vice versa.
Thankfully the braindeads seem to be losing interest as they can't steamroll Helldives without learning the series mechanics. So we won't have to deal with them much longer
Insane this isn't viewable in game.
The intent is for you to learn by playing and have fun experimenting. Hundreds of hours of replayability late game as you run new loadouts
Analysis? What are you, an automaton?
The way AH balanced weapon damage and types is so convoluted and stupid. It doesnt even make sense. Medium pen weapon that only does 10% damage to squishy parts, okay Arrowhead, whatever you say.
They made it realistic. "A game for everyone is a game for no one"
You're my favourite gay creator and I'll fight anyone who disagrees
I just want to say that no one can disagree with who your favorite is. 😅
When will devs understand its nothing wrong with depth everything doesn’t have to be 200iq balders hate 3 depth but at the same time I’m not a fuckin 3 year old playing a game were adults get blown to blood chunks
So what happened to the 100+ countries that were barred from getting the game now that they undid the mandatory PSN?
not covered in this video because that's not what this video is about
TLDR for everyone interested, the guy in the video knows nothing, has a bunch of different theories but cannot prove anything. Clickbait again. Only using fancy graphics in the video.
Wow this videos in widescreen! Awesome!
Are we sure enemies have fixed HP and they're not in a range?