The DANGER of NOT SPEAKING UP about the narcissist
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If you avoid conflict to keep the peace, you end up starting a war inside yourself.
* You let a war rage inside yourself that the narcissist started
Be wary of taking ownership of the consequences of *their* behavior.
This is everything. Brilliant.
Absolutely! Peacekeeping is NOT the same as peacemaking. The former is unhealthy and keeps abuse going. The latter resolves the conflict and leads to healing. It's a choice ❤
Great comment..❤
@@Z1nnyThank you for pointing out the difference & that ultimately it IS a choice...I hear some victims feeling sorry for themselves while doing nothing whatsoever to at least try to get themselves into a better position to go no-contact or at least minimize contact as much as possible.🤔Even with co-parenting you could probably try using a trusted 3rd party to handle communications & drop-offs/pick-ups.
"If you are silent about your pain, they’ll kill you and say you enjoyed it."
Zora Neale Hurston
Even if you talk they say the same thing. Sometimes it's a lose lose situation either way, what then?
I just posted this on Facebook a few days ago! Great quote! ❤
@@specialtwice4975 Yeah there is conflicting advice about how to handle narcs.
@@specialtwice4975 I was always accused of being a quitter and' running away but in reality this is the only thing you CAN do. They will never change. I am now in my 60s and I would say most corporations are narcissistic. Following that pattern, when first hired they will love bomb you, then discredit you, then finally discard you. I have learned to capitalize on the initial love bombing stage and make my money. Then when I notice the climate has shifted to discreditting, I start applying for a new job. Try to get out before the discard stage which can cause you professional damage. Sometimes the cycle takes a decade to reach the devalue stage if you prove profitable to the narc. Sometimes they cycle you in a year. Don't be fixated on the actual time but rather their attitude. You know you will need to leave. Timing is everything.
I got stabbed, robbed and isolated so I told everyone they know and I have never been freer.
People outside of the home do NOT believe the victim of narcissistic abuse. They only speak of how "nice" the narcissist is.
Sometimes those inside the house won't believe them either
Big facts… they end up using your words against you and call you the victim. They will use your loved ones against you as a weapon (flying monkeys).
The narcissist will change the narrative and tell their version of the truth where they are the victim and you have “mental health issues”, anger issues and can’t leave things in the past. And this person was referring to the years and years of sexual abuse I went through.
Wow I swear I am so happy you mentioned that...I thought I was the only one who knew that
Being too nice can be a dangerous thing sometimes.
Learned that the hard way..
Most of the times it's dangerous.
That's likely what happened to many of the victims of Ted Bundy...I remember reading he'd pretend to be hurt to lure a lot of them in😬.
Yes, I've got stalker for more than two years now because of that... "Luckily" it's online stalker but I just want to play a game I like but there he is always, they ban him, he comes back, and he's not only narcissistic, probably psychotic too cause of drugs, it's scary how evil people can be 😢 He is saying terrible terrible things, he tracked my IP and was making fake social media accounts with my real face (porn sites also), he wished me dead, showing his pistols etc., saying how he will kill me and he is playing a victim, I am a monster. It's so terrifying, I don't know why it's happening. I helped him with bullies, I was protecting him and then he "fell in love" but I said we are just friends and then all started because I didn't let him insult my friend. Why? Why people are like this. He used my empathy against me.
That's why they condition us to be nice.
A child also learns to become a people pleaser when raised by a Narcissistic parent. Not speaking up or saying anything is perhaps learnt behaviour. So detrimental in the long run.
I was told to be more of a people pleaser like my only sibling and that I was going to be fat and she was pretty and skinny so life was going to be rough. Boy was she right about the world and herself because she gave all her money to the golden God.
hello from Greece i totally agree with your comment 🙏🙏🙏
Yup my therapist told me I’m a people pleaser type and a magnet for narc/toxic types
Yes, it's called grooming.
I can attest to that. I picked my battles and they were few. I don't like conflict especially with a narcissist, a battle where no one wins. "kill them with kindness" I learned does not work. My silence was forged early in my childhood by my abusive father instigated by my antagonistic younger half sister. Now those two live together in their dysfunctional codependant relationship. Evidently he beat her with his cane on her birthday a week and a half ago. My dad was trying to manipulate me to get me to let him move in with me the latter part of last year, a hell no for me. This motivated me into counseling. She manipulated him for the money he got the moment he got a contract on the sale of the property of his deceased wife, she got him to help her buy a doublewide for her, he cosigned a loan and $66k towards her debt and down payment with the condition that he would live out his life with her.
“When nobody says anything, people are still getting hurt” “as long as nobody says anything, the vulnerable people in the system are hurt”
“It steals the soul of the system.”
This is very true ; we are banned from seen our two grandchildren and we are staying quiet . It’s our daughter is the narcissistic one . This is so sad and immoral . We continue to write a monthly letter to the grand children and keep a copy of the letters in the grand children’s keepsake boxes . This way they will know that we never left them and we love them unconditionally.
I pray that no one else is suffering like us two .
I am sorry this is happening to you two beautiful people, my ❤️ heart goes out to you. My N sister has turned the whole family against me and has suceeded turning my niece against me but not my nephew, but I believe they will keep trying by going thru his new wife, who of course wants family acceptance. I wish some of us on these Dr. Ramani sites could be in support groups together. We need each other's support. I agonize over this every single day. I have to practice Self Compassion meditation every day to help me with this. I wish the two of you all the best!!
@@luckydesilva6733 Ditto!!!
The vulnerable people are often kind, empathic, and compassionate, the core of the soul of the system.
IT SURE DOES
We must speak up in any way possible, because silence is consent to abuse. And predatory individuals torment others because they are silent. We must not enable evil .
Its not that easy for some dealing with abuse. Some aren't safe enough to speak out. And most victims who do speak out only get more abused by others gaslighting them and victim blaming.
@@KAT-dg6el Not really. You can just put them in the category of people who are either too stupid to see what’s going on or complicit.
Well said, I Agree.
Silence is acceptance & in my opinion eventually once we get the opportunity to safely do so...We need to speak up in various ways.I've 👀 some people that just try to hold it all in even after escaping & it's almost as if they're wilting on the inside😔.It's bad enough to have an abuser try to silence your voice...We don't want to do it to our own selves on top of all that.Even just educating your loved ones about narcissistic abuse & 👀 the 🚩s is 1 way to speak out🙂.
ABSOLUTELY!!!! VERY WELL SAID!!!
Abuse thrives in silence. ❤❤❤
Please watch the movies "The Burning Bed" ..It illustrated your points of views accurately..👌..
There's nothing quite like the explosive reaction from a narcissist when they are confronted and worse case - exposed. Its totally off the charts. No wonder narcissists can hide so well for most of their lives.
Yeah, but when you pull their mask off in a logical, systematic way and see how fragile they truly are… It’s something else. Like master blaster from Mad Max… He was so tough until he pulled the helmet off and was actually just a sad, dumb, fragile creature who wasn’t actually hard at all.
If you ever get this opportunity, remember to laugh at them and hit them with funny insults. If they start crying, tell them to leave the room and do that at home because we all don't want to deal with it. Make this experience as painful as possible.
I love to push their button in front of others
@@Poodle_GunI don't think it's a good idea to call for the humiliation of another human being, even if it's someone who has committed great evil and serious harm to other human beings.
It just robs us of Humanity....
Having enough courage and firmness to unquestionably call out the narcisistic , and courage to leave the system even if the immediate costs are high, is already optimal to empower others to do the same and dismantle the system.
Once something becomes obsolete, it ceases to be useful and tends to disappear....
Thank you dear Doc.Ramani...I greatly appreciate your expertise in this matter and your profound wisdom in addressing all the topics...all the nuances...🥀👌💯
A hug...from Portugal...🇵🇹
I had a great moment with my narc sister where I told her she could NOT stay at my house! So she called the cops ON ME. 😂 the cops told her she had 24 hours to be out.
Small win!
Yes that’s the problem NO CONSEQUENCES FOR THEIR BEHAVIOR
What I'm sometimes able to do is undermine whatever is giving them stability, so that things are set up to fail by the time I walk out the door. It doesn't matter if you're the scapegoat if you're going to leave anyway. Yes, I will start rumors, destroy group dynamics, etc. It's a matter of time before they go after each other. What ever dynamic that enables it falls apart: the friend group the activity group, the business, what have you. Don't pick a fight with someone who isn't looking for one. Also, they will always care more than I do about negative energy and losing face.
Damn. This has been my exact thought emerging the last few days over my situation.
@@Poodle_Gun so you set them up what
There are no consequences anywhere. Look at your government, judiciary, education system.
The biggest enablers are the people the narcissist hangs out with in churches. Family members also cover for them. It’s utterly disgusting!
true
'Don't judge'...'Believe all things'...'Love your enemies'....these scriptures and others are used to cover the evil behaviour. Jesus called people out in their lies and their phonyness. He wasn't a walk-over or a wimp.
Yes exactly
Yep
Yep!
I walked away when the truth fell on deaf ears. I went silent for my own sanity. Inner peace is what I choose instead of battling toxic ppl. Ty Again Dr. Ramini. You will never win a battle of wits with ppl that don't have wisdom.
I've had to go silent as well just to get inner peace because if I didn't I would of had a nervous breakdown.
@@crystalcostello3003Smart choice👍🏻.
That’s what I do I just don’t say anything because he don’t accept his behavior or want to change I wish I had known a long time ago,now I feel guilty because I have enabled it for too long.very manipulative people.
You're darn right!Well done🥳🎉🎊.I wish more folks had the courage to go no-contact from these abusive wack-jobs especially when it's family.
@@malwads1836 Caution. I went no contact years ago when I was at university. I had the money, education and means. Not everyone has the opportunity. It is not courage. As Dr. Ramani often mentions family dynamics are complex and many variables are involved. My hope is that each person will find a way to remove themselves from the toxicity but it is not always so clear cut or easy. Namaste.
I grew up in a toxic family household that was abusive in many ways, from physical, emotional, and sexual abuse to a toxic relationship that lasted over 24 years. It's only by speaking out about this issue and the damage it causes that we can start to build a better future. We must break the silence and empower the voiceless in order to create a more compassionate and understanding world.
hello from Greece totally agree with you God bless you i support you 100%
Hello from India. I fully agree with you. Stay blessed dear.
I agree. "Strength in numbers" is the best way to think about confronting abusive, narcissistic individuals. It's going to take a movement to break the silence, calling necessary attention to this matter. Until then, too many people continue to suffer.
Great idea. Let’s get started! There are even laws in some USA states against narcissistic attacks, but not enough informed in court to help. Someone should look into starting a coalition to support and empower the voiceless. Could really go somewhere
All energy toward an EXIT strategy. YOU CANT FIX CRAZY! The insane are anarchists! You should only speak up if you can talk “psychotic”
I remember watching a ted talk about a girl that escaped the cult she grew up in. She said that one time a woman approached her when she was preaching and spreading god's word in the streets, she was just a child in her Sunday best. She kneeled in front of her and said "One day you will grow up. And you will realize that you can leave all of this". That changed her life. I cried listening to that. If only one person in my life had acknowledged all the harm and the abuse I was going through, my life would have been so much easier and just
Yes.
I 1000% relate to this. That's all it would have taken for me too. I didn't recognize the abuse for what it was, but it was severe. Once I had my college schedule set up to take pre-med courses which posed a threat to him. He didn't want to be abandoned. I would have flown back home, and potentially have him live witj me. But, the threat was too great. He needed a caretaker and to make it happen, he had surgery that was elective snd talked about years prior. It wasa up to him when to havr the surgery. I was scoffed at when I bounced through the house to tell my grandma about my decided major. Her first question was, "and where would you have to go?" I told her it would be out of state. "Well, what about your father?" I thought pursuing my dreams was selfish, so I became his caregiver. I was a late teen. That's called exploitation. This parent convinced me the other didn't love me and that her family was "messed up," so I didn't seek her support. I wish I would have had just one family member step in to tell me that my life belonged to me. I fell into a dark depression and isolation. I was just a means to an end. That was a defining moment in my life. I also wish I had the strength to stand upand say, "No. I'm going to school." But I didn't. So harmful. So much lost potential.
@@erinward2983If there's anything we narc survivor kids have in common, it's lost potential.
I am so sorry. Toxic people are the bane of humanity. I also have lost potential. I get it. If only...if only....
@@engleharddinglefester4285 And likely have felt powerless if no one ever spoke up. Just to be told our lives belong to us could have changed so much.
My experience of speaking out to narcissist is that it’s futile to engage with people are ultimately completely unreasonable . It’s like trying to teach a bull to sing , it will never happen & you’re likely to get gored to death.
I spoke out and got a smear campaign and stalked. I wouldn't change it, everyone around me showed their true colors during that time and i couldn't make excuses anymore for the enablers and abuse by proxy. Its lose lose whatever you do with a narc tbh so just do what feels right for you as a victim of this.
The flying monkeys still wish me happy birthday through my gullible spouse. But all good 👍 I'm not that scared little girl anymore
Same here - I spoke out and got silent treatment and a smear campaign. I’m still grieving the loss of one friend I care about (who is trauma-bonded to and abused by the narc) but finally speaking my truth felt so good, I wouldn’t have it any other way.
Yes speaking out they started a smear campaign about me having mental health issues and basically a liar. The narc was trying to cover up sexual abuse
Never argue with someone who's drunk or a narcissist and even worse a narcissist who's drunk.
My situation here!! 😢
Can second this. My malignant narc mom was an alcoholic. Just get away.........
@@om617yota8😢 Hugs ❤
Ex drunks 🎉and drunks stay away they all narcissistic 🎉😊
Lol no kidding! I learned that along time ago.
Growing up when I spoke out about certain behavior and witnessed the damaged suffered, I was told "what goes on in here stays in here". 😢 I spoke out again when I became older and it all became my worst nightmare. 😢
I'm sorry Pink. I concur. I hope we all find a way to ban together.
Absolute evil, there's not a one solution. Some of these people are so good at it that it's scary.
As I got older I began speaking out too & I got treated like 💩.But you know something?I'm PROUD to have the "black sheep" label from the screwball🤗.They can be really nasty when you call out their 💩 but in my 👀 it shows me how screwy they are & why I need to avoid them as much as possible.
@@malwads1836You’re the white sheep. You should be proud of yourself for speaking out.
Whaaat hugs babe
I grew up with "forgive and forget" and being a peacemaker by "not rocking the boat." Now I find myself completely voiceless.
Oh.. I hear ya.. myNARC MOTHER.. preached EXACTLY THAT.
I guess we know why.
You’re not alone, FOR SURE 🌷
There was a time when I thought I better rock the boat and use my voice. It did not make me succeed. Bec. The problem was : he did not use his 2 ears, but rather his 1 mouth to talk me over. My peace is more important now. My voice I share with God. Husband gets only minimum information. I learned to adjust. I can forgive, but will not forget. I understood that no one really understands me. And that's ok now.
@@swissherbgirl2917 I think the people here understand you, precious woman.
It's crazy how someone can take someone life and literally run it into the ground and when you try to get help nobody wants to help.
Everyone enables it. Nuts.
Been there too many times. Stay true to yourself, finally free from the narcs/hurters! ❤
There may also be financial implications or consequences if the narcissist is the bread winner. That’s why sometimes people don’t say anything… 😞
Me 100 percent! I’m stuck here 😢
Narcs work very hard to get financial leverage over you for this express purpose. For decades my dad worked to keep us entangled with "favors" and joint property etc just so I couldn't say anything about how the family worked or how I was treated.
Most time I believe 98% at least
Narcs frequently set their relationships up to include financial control, precisely because it's so effective.
This is actually a legitimate situation where you can't escape. However, there's a good chance a lot of people have your back. Look for a small church or parish and talk to the pastor or priest. You may have to go through a few of them, but that's where I've gotten a lot of important help in escaping my situation.
I didn't say anything about my narc family for the first 26 years of my life. When I finally became aware, got educated and called this stuff out for what it was, I got gaslighted big times.
Amen! When the narcissistic boss continued his abuse, as bad as that felt, my coworkers ignoring it and not saying anything hurt worse. They were fine watching the bully kick the kid in the playground. Felt like a worse betrayal.
They don’t speak up because they’re afraid the boss will start treating them like they’re treating you.
I spoke up and was hauled in to managers office and told I was being written up for something that was no different to what everyone else was doing. Was threatened with suspension and firing. In reality I was not written up because I signed nothing and was given no copies. No paper trail, no evidence. It was just a shake down for speaking out.
@@l.5832 ridiculous, but fits. No win.
@sc.0419 I can relate. < : - ( Sociologists Sam Oliner (who survived the murder of his family in the Holocaust) and Pearl Oliner did groundbreaking research on why some people were literally willing to risk their own lives to help others in the Holocaust and some just stood by. Thank you for making me think of their heartening research at a time when I've felt disgusted and hopeless about humanity for too long. Good wishes to you. ❤
It does.
I never thought of it as cult-like but when you break it down like you did, it makes perfect sense.
Most cult leaders are narcissists I would imagine, so that makes their followers nothing more than a bunch of flying monkeys. How pitiful when you break it down.
I find it the only thing to liken it by to even try to explain the magnitude of the abuse and brainwashing. But really I don’t know if it needs to be compared, being controlled and abused in intimate relationship to a narcissist is a cult, a worship.
Narcissists are a religion unto themselves & pass out plenty of Koolaid 🤦♀️ don’t drink it in the first place or you’ll get sick
It is cultish
cults and narcissistic family system are the same thing. I should know, because not only did I watch videos educating, but I am also in one right now. I am still finding my way out.
I needed to hear this! Every now and then you get tired of "grey rocking" and you just need to speak up for yourself! Iv felt this way all week.
they take grey rock as permission and will up the ante.
As someone who has worked under a Narcissist AND a Narcissistic work culture, I can only affirm what Dr. Ramani is saying. Everyone is usually so demoralized, and many people even got physically ill.
What I've had to become is an evidence collector, photographing and recording things so that when they say "I never said this" or "I never did that" or "you said/did this" then I can whip out my photographs and recordings. When I got out of my narcissistic family situation for 5 months, I ended up with another narcissistic uncle who I cooked for. I knew that he was going to claim at some point that I never cooked anything, it would turn out that he would claim that I only cooked for myself, well unbeknownst to him I took a photo of every meal that I cooked which he ate, approximately 40 of them. This uncle also pulled a gun on me at one point and left it on the couch, I took a picture of that as well. It helps when people don't believe or they think it sounds too far fetched. So even if you don't or can't speak up, a picture is worth a thousand words.
Documentation like that is a great practice. Very smart of you.
I did the same thing with my narcissistic father. I lived there for 9 months. He didn't think I'd go anywhere, so he went all out, revealing his true character. I saw a very sadistic and evil man, who was just using me to care for him and as supply. It was insane. The person I thought I knew never existed. I knew people wouldn't believe me, I so I recorded so much. Finding others to relate to is why I watch these and read comments. It's nice to know I don't stand alone.
@@erinward2983 Same here!! You are not alone, Erin.♥️♥️♥️
@@amberfuchs398I’m doing something similar.
I quit my career to care for my narc mother. My decision.
Here’s my concern: my older narc sister is the executor of the estate.
I have a feeling that after my mom dies , my sister will try to portray my situation as “ sponging off of my mother”.
Therefore, every time something occurs with my mothers health, or home, or care, I email my sister. She is purposely living in another country. We haven’t seen her in years.
Im emailing her to have a running timeline to document exactly what is happening with my mother, and how I’m handling it.
Because someday, I , may have to sue my sister, and I m going to need evidence against her lies.
Sounds dangerous 😢 I pray you got away. Time is precious and he is stealing what should be the best years of your life
When you know someone is being singled out for abuse and you have "strength in numbers," please use it. Please speak up. The danger for me was not knowing when I should have. Had someone reached out my life would be much different. I lost decades, spent under his spell that was an act. The value of speaking up at an appropriate time is like the value of a lifeboat on a ship that is sinking.
This should be pinned.
Yup. I saw it happening to a friend and put my foot down. This behavior is unacceptable, I won't enable this relationship. The person was SO offended that I did this. They told my friend that they were done with her because of it. I'm so glad I know about this now to call it when I see it.
@@jimspectre ❤
They are flying monkeys and enablers.
It doesn’t take much either. When I was in a narcissistic relationship one person simply glared at the narcissist as they were pushing me to do something I didn’t want to do. That’s all it took. Realizing SOMEONE saw it, someone knew something was wrong. This and the people in my life that continued to ask me “Are you okay?” “You just don’t seem like you.” “Are you sure you’re happy?” These things really, really helped. And you know at the time, I got angry at them for asking. But the questions made me rethink weather this person’s behavior was actually okay.
The few times I tried speaking up to my abusers, it unleashed unimaginable rage. Speaking up to flying monkeys falls onto deaf ears to as they've been brain-washed into thinking you're the problem. I do wish other people had spoken up but I know from experience that nothing will stop the abuse. One thing is for certain: As the victim, YOU HAVE NO VOICE. Speaking up is NOT SAFE, regardless of your age. What does help, however, is talking about the abuse to other people/therapists, journaling, blogging, writing, etc. In one way, verbalizing the abuse validates your experience. Keep in mind that narcissists will NEVER acknowledge what they did/are doing and will never change, regardless of who speaks up.
Exactly my experience as well! It just unleashed rage and more. Leaving and journaling for oneself, talking to a therapist who helped me to get angry and validate my experience and to learn how to grief and move on was helpful but not confronting the narcissist, it's bloody dangerous 🍀
"The few times I tried speaking up to my abusers, it unleashed unimaginable rage" This. I've learned to gauge when it is 'safe' to speak up and when it is time to ignore and just walk away.
Facts
On my 7th birthday, my grandfather told me that adults don't know what they're talking about. Speak up and question whatever doesn't make sense. I've been doing just that ever since and have come to realize that everyone that had a problem with me doing such was a narcissist.
I tell my son this too, although not everyone is a narcissist who doesn’t agree.
I did speak up about the narcissist to my family, and they not only defended her, but shut me down and blamed everything on ME! They won’t let me speak about it. I ended up getting threatened when I kept trying to speak about it and stop her behavior. I had to step away for my own safety. But I still feel bad knowing that they are just continuing to enable her and let this bad behavior continue. It enrages me. From what I’ve learned though, she will hopefully/eventually blow her cover and expose herself. I pray almost every day for my family to see the truth 😔😩🙏
Wish there was a video on what to do when a non family member becomes obsessed with your family and decides to turn them against you.
Non-family members 😢
It's so painful😢
Well… I officially lost my entire family because I was the only one “calling things out”. No one. Is speaking to me.
im there with ya
Me too ❤
We saw red flags of the narc early on but rationalized them as being personality quirks. Over time, his attacks became more and more vicious until they could no longer be ignored. We called him on his action and he went into full victim mode. We went no contact but the damage had been done.
That's pretty typical of how Narky gets in.
Literally, my ex-husband. What do you mean by "the damage had been done"?
Every time that I've confronted a narcissist my life got infinitely worse. The gaslight people around them they trick people into thinking that I'm the problem. They use my emotional problems as a reason to believe the narcissist. However people who know me understand that I don't usually have emotional problems unless somebody is intentionally causing me distress.
Today I broke free from my tormentor, a supervisor who terrorised me for a year. I was in a contract that I could not renege from. As we closed for the day, she casually said, we should have a wrap up meeting, so I’ll arrange for our usual Monday mtg. I couldn’t say it fast enough - No! That won’t be possible. There’s also nothing to wrap up, the job is done. They are relentless in their soul sucking. She can’t let me go. This channel and Dr. Ramani, with the grace of God, kept me sane during the worst moments. I grey rocked, I confronted, I set boundaries….each was an experiment that brought on some of her worst behaviour. In the end, just move on and away. I feel weird though, keep looking Over my shoulder. It’ll be a few days before it gets better I guess.
Children are very vulnerable in narcissistic families. I was one, and I had a narcissistic dad, older brother, and an emotionally absent mom. It really messed me up, I think it will always affect me, somewhat, until I die.
Sadly, narcissistic dad's role model that same low life style to their sons . To also have a mother that was emotionally absent must have made you feel extremely lonely, vulnerable & unsupported. I hope you can find peace in some way
@@carpathianken I’ve had some successes. Surprisingly I graduated from University of Michigan and did very well there. My father said I wasn’t smart enough and at my graduation he harped about the C I made in Statistics.
@@lisagrimes4801 You've done very well.Your comment resonated with me because my mother was emotionally absent too.My dad wasn't a part of my life.When l won the national apprentice of the year award the best that my mother could come up with was "When you were presented your award at the podium an entire table of people didn't clap or congratulate you" There was a slap in the face with everything she said.My psychologist has since told me to sever all ties with her
@@carpathianken that’s very cruel
of her. Why are parents so mean when we do something good? Are they jealous of us? You’ve always got you and that’s way more than enough.
Me, too - same situation. My nervous system is shot to pieces. I'm slowly healing now most of them have passed, only my father left who's in his late 90s, still living independently, still as controlling as ever, with everyone around him pandering to him & saying how marvellous he is & how terrible i am for not visiting more often - if only they knew! (They will once the time comes - no point at the moment as they'd never believe me anyway). I think he may have come up against a narcissist of his own now tho - in the form of a 'lady friend' 30yrs his junior who 'looks after him like his carer', takes him out regularly, even arranging outings for fathers day & rings me to invites me along to them! She will probably talk him into giving her power of atrourney, get him to change his will, & fleece him for every penny he's got. People like this deserve eachother.
I had a coworker (who has become a good friend) who would tell me about some of the experiences she’d had with her family. And I’d tell her sometimes (ok, a lot) that the way she’d been treated by them was not ok. Later she told me how helpful it was to have just one person validate her, even if it was after the fact, and it had helped her realize she wasn’t crazy. I don’t say this to brag about myself, but to illustrate that having someone listen, empathize and say “whoa, that’s screwed up and unhealthy”, even after the fact can be beneficial. On the flip side, she helped me understand some things I’d been through because she’d been working on those same things herself, and she pointed me in a direction to better understand it.
I’m a people pleaser because my mother was never satisfied with anything I did. I tried so hard to please her so she could be proud of me. I grew up thinking if I could please you, you would like me or not be angry at me. I became a codependent and I’m also an empath. I’m learning to love myself more and set boundaries. I will admit it’s hard to do but I’m getting there.
Just no, u are not alone!❤ We understand the pain and confusion that comes from growing up & basically being lied to on a daily basis. I hope and pray for every blessing to be sent to you!
@@crystalmiller4463 thank you Crystal.
I was in your shoes ,too I had it with my Mom,and finally after 65 yrs ,I walked away ,and closed ,the book,I feel great without the toxic person, in my life .
@@aida6457I'm not trying to be a smart mouth but this is something you want to do by age 35 not age 65. All my negative thoughts about people earlier in life were true they weren't fully developed thoughts nor fully understood thoughts but I was on the right track and I wish I would have acted according to my own thoughts and not listen to lies and deceit by those who had their own purposes for me
You sound like me. Hang in there!🤗
When it comes to the enablers, their thinking is most likely that if it isn't happening to them, then just leave it be. What goes around comes around.
It took 55 years of endless suffering and self blame. But I did confront my mother a few times before she passed, and my father for enabling her. My siblings chose not to listen... Can't do much about it. Now dealing with my passive aggressive narc husband. It never ends... Thank you for the good fight you're fighting, Dr. Ramani.
Things aren't always as simple as presented here.
Sometimes, victims are confronted to covert narcissists who are full blown psychopaths, sociopaths: you can loose your life by speaking up. Or get in cycle of revenge abuse where the narcissists will try to destroy you by any means necessary including making you crazy.
People, when you speak up, know who you are dealing with and also, be in a safe space and sure of your surroudings.
Make sure your family/ friends won't betray you.
Exactly. Act super loving and caring to your face while smearing you behind your back. When their actions get called out. They try to control the narrative and get their story out first which always involves you struggling with mental health and “making accusations “ about a family member who just does nothing but care for his little sister when in fact he’s been sexually abusing her. The covert narc Person is my mum.
I spoke out about my mom's obvious narcissism and now the whole family avoids me like I have the plague. It was a high cost... but worth it. I feel like I can actually start the healing process within me from the lifelong verbal abuse my mother inflicted upon me.
The knowledge I now possess and the boldness I now have reveals the correct path to take for my own peace of mind.
Same here. They will never support you because they risk their own golden status in the family. The whole system is toxical nature, not only your mom.
Nothing is said , Because of being scared of the backlash and anger of the Narcissist parent
It’s extremely Sad
from minute 7:20 onwards dr. Ramani explains this
I have spoken the TRUTH about my narcissistic mother but no matter what the enablers/flyingmonkeys side with her, I will always speak the TRUTH about what she has done to me even if they continue to deny what happened, narcissistic people get away with murder!
The narcissist can come into a normally functioning group that actually has rules set up to protect the members, and then twist and use those rules to their advantage until they have a group that they find very comfortable because everybody ends up playing to their terms (which are based on the original rules).
I tried to bring slight of my awareness to my siblings in regards to my mom narcissistic behaviors and I was gaslighted by each one them. I am now looked at as a lost soul of the family. It’s tough.
Reminds me of a girl I knew for 15 years who always seemed angry and cuss like a bad sailor. After I cut her off for her narcissistic abuse towards me, she flew into a fit of rage started backstabbing me. I walked away from her after I confronted her and called her out. At least I take comfort in letting her know she has no power over me and will not gaslight me anymore. She flipped me off. So be it. Best decision ever made to sever ties with her. She’s truly evil.
So true!! I just went through this. I stood up for myself and my ground. 🎉 and defeat my narcissist. Yes, it felt good! I m growing!
I got into one of these systems for the first time at my job. I IMMEDIATELY started documenting and triangulating (to figure out where the fault lines were). Then I launched flying monkeys at him, HR complaints to the University (instead of our local HR) from multiple people, and cutting him out of critical tasks.
It took me less than 6 months to completely isolate him, turn the institution against him, and make him completely irrelevant to the organization. NEVER sit in silence, play the game and destroy them
I think ur right. It's not just speaking up, but fighting the narc in a strategic way.
@@mireille4787 Strategy is KEY. People don't just "tolerate" bad behavior for no reason. The reasons could be fear, money, benefits, etc. To adequately address the issue you need to identify the reason and eliminate it.
@@KAT-dg6el Id pull his address from payroll then send some friends to start stalking and harassing him until he moved.
On the office side Id use triangulation to start bullying him
But that's just me. I really don't take kindly to people treating me poorly
Speaking up to a toxic person is comparable as confronting a rageful kid but in an adult body, his tantrums will give you headaches and make you feel worse than before. So I just learned to just keep things to myself, it is less dangerous this way especially because I know these people do not listen to criticisms without throwing a fit
❤❤😢
There's someone I've wanted to speak up about for many years, but it's been my experience that whenever I (or anyone) say anything about her, she manages to completely dodge accountability and flips it. It's maddening.
It's hard to speak up when you don't even realize you're being manipulated. My narcissist mom triangulated the whole family, keeping everyone on edge while making herself out to be the victim. Either I or someone else - my dad, my brother - was always the bad guy causing the disharmony while she played innocent and pretended to suffer. Unwitting family members were pitted against each other with everyone feeling helpless to understand why or do anything about it. Not until my 50s, after my dad's death, did I finally figure out that mom had been the chaos agent behind all the misery in our family.
True!
The Catch-22 is that we're not supposed to tell the narcissist that they're a narcissist. I find myself doing a contortionist dance to support the narcissist in evolving, while not"talking about fight club". I've begun to frame it as me looking at my own narcissistic tendencies, or pointing out opportunities for empathy. Coming at them with truth seems to simply antagonize them, and since they're very good at avoiding consequences, doesn't end up being productive
Why do you choose to engage with people you think are narcissist? Genuine question. People seem to have a cultist fascination with this topic. Why not just avoid?
Nathan sometimes we cannot just walk away due to them being ex parents, elserly parents...
@@nathanthomas1742 in my particular case, this is someone I've known for decades, but only got in a relationship with about 6 years ago. I never saw this side of him (there's a reason they call them covert) until we lived together. I discovered he had a drinking problem and while we addressed that, I ascribed his behavior to it. Once he was sober, though, it changed but also became clear who and what he was. This was at the start of the pandemic, and we had moved to a new town. I was isolated from the people I'd always known, financially dependent, and without resources to leave. We hit a crisis point when he bullied and lashed out at my son, and he started therapy. That didn't last, but he improved. At my age, I've noticed I'm a great target for narcissists, and while I could still find someone else, I can't be convinced that they wouldn't be just as bad or worse, since my current partner had me fooled for decades.
Yes. They don't like the truth. They don't care about our lives, our emotions, and wellbeing. Everything is about them. At the extreme end, the abuse, coupled with silence can be sadistic and dangerous. Malignant narcissists are capable of severe, extreme abuse.
They’re not going to evolve
I have been calling out narcissists and injustice my whole life, never counting the cost, but it was always to my own detriment and I’ve suffered greatly because of being so principled.
I’ve read that abuse victims often have high emotional intelligence but low political intelligence. I’ve had zero political intelligence, I never assessed the power dynamics or the consequences for me.
Now I’m more knowledgeable, particularly how ‘calling it out’ can often just be walking into a trap they have set for you.
My approach now is to understand I’m already neck deep in it if I’m being targeted for narcissistic abuse. I’ve already gone way off track of looking after myself and I need to silently extricate myself and get to somewhere safe.
When you go no-contact... That's actually the ultimate way of speaking out if you 💭 about it because this is the only thing a narc is forced to "listen" to due to cutting off their supply from you.The quiet "fall off the planet" technique has worked well for me,I got hoovered for a few years but I never responded & eventually it stopped.
I relate
We will speak up now and place boundaries thanks to your helpful information 🙏
I've been in 12-Step meetings where people say "that person isn't even thinking about *you* anymore, they've moved on" & I think people say that just to feel better about themselves because I've been stalked and found that to not at all be true. When someone gets away with exploitation once, they go back for more, and they pick people they'll have an easier time getting one over on.
Yes, and it can kill you like it almost did me with 40 years of not saying anything just to keep the peace. Get out of the relationship NOW! It builds up inside you and comes out in other ways you do not want. Thank you once again Dr. Ramani for all the validation you give me and I'm sure everyone who listens to you!❤❤💖
yes it does. The years I tried to be gentle resulted in me having loud outbursts. Like the temper I had as a kid had come back. This of course, was used against me by my wife. Things have been rocky since I started being more firm. Still would have occcassional outbursts b/c I still cared. Then one day.. had a good cry and was done.. don't care at all beyond normal human caring about other humans. After finding Dr. R and learning techniques to deal with my narc wife I'm watching carefully to see where this goes but much more calm, not nearly as stressed out, and bye bye to outbursts. I've had a couple of people who have commented on how I am able to stay so calm. Thanks to Dr. R.
I went to my parents house for a quick visit on Xmas & my mom was even more horrible. Nobody ever called her out but this time was a game changer. Later my GC sister told me that her boyfriend mentioned my Narc mom’s behavior towards me. This was huge for me that the 1st time someone noticed it was wrong & I was seen.
Later my husband was the one who told me that he hated to see the way she treats me. He was the 1st one to say narcissist & totally understood & supports me. Otherwise I’d still be trying to please my mom & think the abuse was my fault. I’m no contact & getting better every day.
I tried to discuss my narcissistic parent's issues with my siblings to my detriment. The toxic family of origin rarely changes.
If you opt out of the system, you're basically banished.
@@tristanarnold9616So true!
I have found that the only people in the family I can talk to are the ones who were treated just like me. I now steer clear of the flying monkeys and the golden children. I was a good kid. But, I have found others who appreciate me.
A colleague said to me "all is not as it seems" that was enough validation regarding this person. Even a member of the public, a professional, apologised to me for the way the colleague treated me another day, and they didn't know everything else I was dealing with - unlike the colleague!! We all weather storms but God will avenge cruel intentions. As a man sows, that shall he reap 🎯🔥
I couldn't agree more. Also, *by speaking up against unfair and abusive behaviour* (not only from narcissists) *you give yourself the power and profile that you were prevented to have by a narcissist or another kind of abuser.* It takes courage every time, but it helped me so much.
Speaking up-within a sufficiently safe space please...- is self-empowerment.
This is something I really struggle with. When I have spoken up about narcissists, it backfires. I see how important it is to speak up, but now I see the danger of speaking up.
People stay very silent. Nothing gets said and nothing gets done. I agree that if we speak out when we can it empowers us to not feel so insane.
I finally spoke out after a narcissist crossed the line. I hope that it has encouraged others, that share the same circle as me and the narcissist, to set their own boundaries with the narcissist. But the ones that they think they are the bigger person by continuing to play the tip toe game are going to have a rude awakening one day. Because what I have observed us that they always have to have a scapegoat to keep them supplied, and one day it will be their turn to be the scapegoat.
Exactly as people inevitably 🏃♀️ from the narc...They require fresh meat.
They can have, or be, the Road kill, as the bus keeps moving.
I called it out in my family. What disturb me is they all knew all of them. They knew she'd always been like that. They knew it was bad they didn't know how bad because they didn't want to know. They were all too scared to know how badly my mother treated us. Because if they had known, they would have had to do something instead it took me 40 years to realize the truth and the moment I did, I took action. but they were still too scared, most of them, my brothers. Youngest daughter, she took action. I like to think that parts of my family are now healing, but I don't know how well because they have no part in my life anymore.
Some of them I may get back. But most of them, that's impossible.
Remembering the abuse, years or even decades later and being "in that space" over and over is what victims need to overcome. Revisiting the scene of the crime is what causes the pain.
I’m in this boat now. I stayed around through too much and now even though I’m low contact now, when I see them call or show up, the reaction of my body is like there is a bear I’ve spotted that’s coming for me. Such an intense panic and dread and have to breathe through the panic attack and it still takes days to recover from that run in. How am I supposed to heal if I can’t have space? I think there’s no closure with them because they’ll never say sorry or change, just I am expected to not say anything, forget every way they’ve hurt me, give them a clean slate, pretend it’s a happy family, show up to all their occasions, let them have unsupervised access to my young kids, let them treat me disrespectfully…. Because time has gone by and I took it the wrong way, I’m being cruel and unjust and causing the trouble and I am bad for not forgiving. The mere thought of them or having anything to do with them sends me into an immediate tailspin and mental decline.
Hey-when they expect you to apologize for “ villainizing them and heroing yourself” to others-huh?
I feel your pain. It is horrible to realize your biological family is the source of so much pain. Even with distance they can cause anxiety and panic. It's how they conditioned us to feel.
@@jaclynmarie5747 I can relate to that! Just Keep Away!
When I tried speaking up about a narcissist at work, his enablers ended up blaming me for the problem.
Sounds like they're his/her enablers 🫤
This was especially true at work, where no one wanted to call out the Director in charge. It perpetuated the situation.
It only changed for those who retired.
Yes!
Oh yes, that's me! I didn't hold back. I laid it out straight.
Over time, those 2 destructive creatures in my family have seen their circles get smaller and smaller. I will NEVER conform. I'm happy to be exactly who I am. Once I spoke out, it helped a lot of people to stand up and walk away too. What I did spread like wildfire. I didn't have to reach out to anyone. They chose from their own experiences with those creatures.
The only thing I found anyone would be willing to believe is my advice to watch your boundaries around that person
People dont want to believ that the Narc is who they are. Until they see it for themselves
Until they *personally* suffer from the narc's misdeeds.
A lot of people need to learn the hard way...Not everyone but a lot.I warn folks once & if they don't listen I quietly move on.If they don't want to learn until their life is in tatters it's their choice & consequences ultimately.
I just left a job, a food service position, which was utterly infested with rats. The owners weren't doing anything, other than paying the 'pest control service'. The girl who took my job was not told- until she came in to find a rat on her desk. Literally everyone knows and nobody speaks of it. It was the same in my family of origin- the most anyone did was eye rolling, but the actual abuse was never spoken of. And I have heard this from other victims too. It's like shameful things silence us.
I'm in the food service position as well. I'm waiting for them to fire me 😂 lots of narcissistic people there
Sometimes we have to face hard decisions (when dealing with our own parent for example) We can take it when it’s directed at ourselves, because we learned how to navigate it, but when it becomes toxic to our children or spouse, we are forced to stand up against it, or risk, perpetuating the problem in our own kids.
I stayed silent for too long and it cost me my friends too. I tried to warn them, but it came off as slander against my ex. Now I'm forced into a kind of hermit-like life all because I was never brave enough to speak up and point things out in public settings.
Exactly! This applies to me 100% it a common thing for a spoiled narcissist who doesn't know anything, buy themselves into a possion of power through their rich parents, and then treat everyone like crap. These people make the world a worse place.
My ex was a spoiled covert narc. I didnt see it till later because I felt something wasn't right. I started to test the waters for narcissism and she failed. Spoiled Lil girl who plays the victim, manipulates, lies and uses people to gain control. I was shocked when I stumbled across these videos and learned more. I'm still recovering from the discard and subtle abuse. I feel like she stuck a mixing paddle in my brain and stirred up my thoughts because they aren't healthy.
In most normal circumstances , the worst they can do is cut you out their lives. It's basically like the trash taking itself out.
Once you get past the narcissistic rage you'll be at peace. Always ironic when they say "I hope you get the help you need" as the last thing they say to you.
Yes, I recently got myself fired for calling out my boss for slandering another business owner. I knew when I opened my mouth how things would end. Sadly, the person she slandered wasn't protected by my actions and has lost business because of false accusations. The witnesses to what happened won't call out the narc, they enable her to keep the peace. I did what was right but yeah, it cost me.
My brother and I had fallen out and essentially had told me to F off ( because I had done just that, spoken out against the family). When I had messaged another family member this family member literally told me "Your brother isn't against you, he loves you". My jaw dropped I couldn't get over the fact that she literally believed that, never in a million years did I think that they were that brainwashed and this was an (external family member) who had told me this about my brother. That's when I'd had enough and just blocked anybody associated even (if it was like a distant friend) they got blocked. If you're that deluded to believe a statement like that I don't need you in my life.
Same thing happened to me with my brother and we are estranged. Family members are clueless!
@@accesstotheredcarpet I know that the (female person who brought me up) is the one who's controlling the entire show, That is dead obvious she has everybody fooled around her. So when I got that statement from the family member I was a bit taken aback because I didn't think that type of toxicity would have seep into the external family like that. Thankfully, NOW I don't have to deal with their drama.
Well every piece of garbage had to come from a big dumpster somewhere.A lot of times family systems end up being that dumpster that the garbage came from unfortunately🙄.
I hear ya. Exactly what I’ve done too.
@@malwads1836 preaching to the choir, and then once the garbage man (like us) comes back to take the trash out they don't wanna move🤮🤮🤮🤮
Sometimes, you may need to speak to others without the narcissist knowing, because as long as they are called out they will bite.
The safest way might be to say to others quietly without letting the narcissist know, not calling them out, especially if one doesn’t have the strength, yet still empowering the people who are feeling crazy.
This is GOLD. Really needed to hear this right now.
The biggest part was hearing that the narcissists’ destruction is very subtle, it’s not overt, yet it’s still important to speak about it to the others because it is the vulnerable that are being hurt.
There's no point in calling them out directly to their face, they'll never get it... That's why it's best to just play the fool role until you can get away from them & then quietly "fall off the planet" if possible.
I retired because I knew if I stayed in my job I would become physically ill. Narcissism was rampant among small groups of workers in many departments. The managers of the departments cycled through so rapidly, never staying around long enough to dig deep into the workplace issues. Then upper management wondered why it was so difficult to keep people
They craft an image of virtue through virtue signalling, and other means, so if you try and warn people you would be accused of trying to smear them, and perhaps labelled a narcissist yourself.
Just discussing this topic about some narcs I know.
This video is on point.
It's a lose lose situation, you don't say anything, they get away with it, you say something, you put your life, yes life in danger.
The moment I spoke up to my narcissist mother, with the help of my therapist, her war on me was unmet and her punishment was like unseen. I literally become her enemy, not only for her but to almost all the family. I got suizidal thoughts because her revenge was so severe. And nobody thanks you for it, nobody. Be prepared that you will be punished from all around the allies.
Seriously, I wouldn't do it again. Just pack your bags and leave forever.
Recently faced my ex gf and her mother about their views on how take care of my father who is injured and stuck in bed. Didn't end well. They overstepped their boundaries by intruding on things in my life that's none of their business. They had the audacity to see it their way and no other. It put me in an uncomfortable situation but I spoke my mind.
Nobody say “ you have been treated wrong”, but most Can say “ somthing is wrong with you”when they know others have pissed on you.
When I say anything, my narcissistic sister downplays it. And then she says because I have a mental illness ( depression and anxiety ), that I am over exaggerating. Or put it in terms that people relate to without saying the whole truth. Saying that it’s her dog, and I should just mind my own business.
I can’t say anything without my whole family coming down on me, like I’m in the wrong.
I constantly feel like I can’t do anything right.
So timely Dr. Ramani given many things going on in the world right now. I applaud anyone who calls out and stands up to any form of abuse. I used to be so scared to do as I was afraid of being abandoned. I finally realized that if anyone were going to abandon me for not putting up with abuse, then they were not really there for me in the first place.
Thank goodness this subject has come up. Grey rock as our only method has led to toxic Mutism out of lack of other options
Yes, yes ! What a brilliant comment!
Seems like its a danger to speak and not to speak!
True Super-hero's unite!
Thanks for helping Dr.!
100% Growing up in Scientology (TH-cam channel) has been doing videos on tyrannical leaders inside Scientology who harmed so many. Their videos are going to help hundreds of people who have been gaslighted for decades
I love that channel!! The videos relatable Reese has put up of the phone calls Scientology interrogators … Dr Ramani would find fascinating
Cults are crazy !! So much narcissistic abuse at their foundations
@@griffinashton her story is heartbreaking and hilarious at the same time. The fax machines being thrown 📠 📠😂
There are a lot of dangers associated with speaking out also, I should know I have experienced them
I've spoken up against my mother when I realized, years ago, how negative she was and also when I started seeing the narcissism that was staring me in the face the whole time. It meant nothing as she just kept going. I've gone through so many struggles and questions as she's my mother. To me, it has to go into a mental illness area when a person frankly doesn't give a damn and esp against their own son.
Thank you for taking the time to highlight the risks and importance of speaking up. I was the one who spoke up as a child and it definitely didn't go well, as you described in the cult. Apparently all my siblings were internally cheering me on and at the time cringing, knowing the abuse I was about to get. I think if my siblings and I had ever felt we could discuss what was going on and had not been so brainwashed and triangulated and gaslighted, things would have at least felt like we had each other's back.
Wear that scapegoat badge with pride for speaking out because it takes guts especially for a kid to do this👍🏻...It's better to be hated for being authentic than to be liked for being a fake boot-licker for 1 of these walking dirty diaper pails.I did this too & got treated like 💩 as a result...But I wouldn't have it any other way😉.
Yep. That was me. But my siblings participated in the scapegoating. They didn’t want to damage their relationship with my narc parents so they wouldn’t speak up. Instead they shared the knife in my back my whole life.
@@DJH97 I'm so sorry. I have eight siblings and some definitely did this the whole time, and some only some of the time. (golden child, enablers). It's awful and the fallout is life long struggle even with distance and education and therapy.
@@malwads1836 I'm sorry, and I'm glad you feel that way too. My adult self knows this and is right there with you, my inner child who took so much of the physiological emotional and physical beating still struggles with the "your so defective, a monster, and evil" messages.
This is exactly where I'm at, between a rock and a hard place, calling him out is causing me hypertension. Time for me to go
I had health problems from the stress. It was killing me. I knew I would have to leave her even tho I didn't want too. 6 weeks now and it hurts just as much as the day I left. It's a horrible spot to be in. Never thought it would end like this and the emotionally pain is just as bad as the physical pain with health issues.
My father, MHSRIP, was one...I married (before diagnosis) and divorced a diagnosed sociopath. I took no prisoners when I grew up and called that BS out, and I STILL bore the brunt of some really difficult stuff because NO ONE else said a word and even covered up for these people. Wish I had found this channel 20 something years ago. Thank you for everything you do. I really appreciate it.
If you don't call out a narcissist, you're an enabler.
no
A victim calling out a narc or expressing feelings is like pissing in the wind.. Gray rock is your only hope until you escape!
I have a saying - generally applying it to SA and the resulting PTSI
"Fight back and you might die. Don't fight back and you'll wish you had"
Yes, the 2nd sentence has both meanings.
This is a thing I say to myself because that's how I now recognise I operate in Life, and yeah it causes hassles.
I didn't fight off my initial attacker, and the lack of accountability is staggering. The fall out I have been enduring since, I have no words
She keeps saying that this is the danger for not speaking up. However, in my life I've had spoken up and instead of things changing, I got ridiculed and told to forget about things. My brother and I were both either the golden child or the scapegoat. Looking back on my life now I see that most of the time I was the scapegoat because I was the one who spoke up. I now live on my own with no friends and no family. I'm alone now and it's even hard for me to get a boyfriend which I so desperately want. Seeing videos like this made me realize that I was right all along about my life in the past - it was bad.
Holding people accountable for their behavior is a loving act. It also takes bravery. Narcissists have gotten way too much leeway for far too long. Yeah so that's over now. :)
I spoke up against an abusive therapist.Took me awhile but I did it.Most people tell me let it go,karma will get them.What if WE are Karma😊
Yes! I did say game over to a sibling. I now am benefiting by having healthy, adult relationships with my two other siblings. We all see the fake reality and view it as such.
You are a blessing,ive had extensive therapy but its great to hear a therapist get on a level with us the way you do , brilliant please continue your work your great at your job.