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well, there was a period in the 80s and through all of the 90s and into the early 2000s when vinyl just about died while dropping drastically in sales every year in that time period since the CD came out. And for the $150 or so price of a typical 80s CDP, no TT system could come even close to the sound. Majority of people did not own higher priced TTs back then. So SQ is a major reason for the rise in CDP and decline in TT. Plus you could play it in the car and portable players too, unlike vinyl. One this generation of people all die, I am sure vinyl sales will soon start to die again.
As I remember the major difference from analogue in the early cd players was the top end. They seemed to all sound all top end. Everything was still there, but muted by so much high frequencies. How cool was it back then to have a cd tray that could be opened closed by a remote? 😂
Hi Steve. I completely agree with you . Am I an audiophile? You be the judge. I am 67 years of age. I was a subscriber to the magazine Stereo Review since I was 11 years old. I subscribed on my own and read each issue from cover to cover at least once. When in 1969 my parents decided to get a new sound system ( they were upgrading from a Dumont small console) I told them easily and off the cuff what to buy. The salesman at the store could not believe how easy was for this 12 year old to be so surely footed and determined about what to get within the budget dad had informed me I should not exceed. My choices were: a pair of Acoustic Research, so called then bookshelf loudspeakers, they were three way loudspeakers, an acoustic research 80 watts amplifier, and a Garrard turntable. Not the most expensive Garrard with the Formosia wood in the tone arm, because my dad said the price was excessive. We got the model just below that one. And for cartridge we got a Shure that at the time it had a price of 120 USD which half of it I paid with my paper route money. Once we got home I wired the whole thing up and proceeded to give an explanation to my parents about a world they have never entered before. I guided them to perceive staging, imaging, channel separation, tone, timbre, choose the speakers location and how it all was affected by tracking force, azimuth and external vibrations invading the area where the turntable resides. I was 12 years of age, born and growing up in an upper middle class suburb of San Juan, Puerto Rico. I do not have a high end system these days. My turntable, cartridge, integrated amp, cd player and B&W loudspeakers amount to only 11k USD. In no way comparable to the magnitude of equipment and sophistication you are accustomed to see, possess and enjoy. I am a pauper in comparison. Pretty much a no one. But I love music. And the trascendental moment happens when I sit down to listen to music. Then the equipment disappears and the final reduct of it all is the most magical moment I can experience as a mortal. It does not matter if it is Lorena Mackenit, Allan Parsons, Barbara Streisand, the Who, Phillip Glass, Celia Cruz, Puccini or Ottorino Respighi. I listen to it and I derive a joy from it that benefits my physical and mental well being. I am a fan of vinyl and to this day I wear sterile gloves to handle my vinyl. Nobody touches my vinyl. Some of them are 48 years of age. Several are half speed direct pressings from the metal master. Barely any clicks and pops. If any. I also enjoy CD’s. What I don’t understand is taking music for granted. A sophisticated turntable worth its salt is a musical instrument. Like a violin it has the capacity to be tweaked and finely adjusted. It is a machine you approach with respect and knowledge. When one listens to music one does not clean the house, fry an egg or take phone calls. I am very concerned as an old man where our extreme materialistic mindset is taking us. It is definitely toward a lesser world. Thank you.
The first CD I heard was Fleetwood Mack, Tango In The Night. For me, it was an amazing experience. I could not believe how clear and crisp it sounded, all the problems of Analogue gone. I still have that CD and it still plays perfectly. For me digital is king but I get why people still love analogue.
My favourite video of yours by far. I’m not a digital hater but definitely an analogue lover. I love vinyl with all of its faults. There is nothing like spinning one of your favourite albums and all of the ritual that goes with it. Thanks very much for this video Steve.
23 year old here, I totally agree with your statement on how digital music doesn’t require the focus and attention that playing an LP does. When I put a record on I am present in the music. I also think there’s a special feeling that comes with playing a whole album beginning to end rather than just putting shuffle on a playlist with over one hundred songs.
Ahhh....you can play a cd from beginning to end; you can't do that with an Lp. Your habit of making playlists, go round robin juke box style, playing an artists entire discography in one setting in on you and the form of media.
But you can do exactly what you are saying on digital too and have a choice to skip the music you don't like at the comfort of your couch that you cannot to on vinyl . It's all on you.
Vinyl is today, for attentive focused listening.I don't mean to say anything bad about other forms of music, but it's mainly convenience. This was archived in the 60's with reckord changers with auto stops, etc. Our parents used to do house work, with a stack of reckords. Today an avid listener is right there, we have way better cartridges and tonearms and listening is an art. Streaming has improved but has a way to go.
@@lenperera6851 I feel the same things you mentioned but about compact disc. I think there's different types of listening even done by the same listener. Sometimes you listen to figure out the key or time signature. Other times you want to have an immersive enjoyment. If you are in a record store, you might try to listen for anomalies and surface noise. I do notice one thing. Some people don't feel the music and I find it hard not to even at low volumes over a computer.
Before the return of vinyl a few years back and before streaming, I realized that I missed that physical connection that the whole analog experience used to give me. I love finessing the cartridge/turntable relationship and reading about new gear. I love the packaging and presentation that’s put into the album and the fact that you can read the print without a magnifying glass. Steve is 100% right on every point so nothing else needs to be said.
I truly enjoyed your presentation of the “argument” between these two mediums. I may offer an automotive analogy… I’ve owned a 1965 Volkswagen Bug (analog…and very much so an analog machine) and a brand new Hyundai Tucson (digital). Certainly it is magnificent to get into the Tucson and know that it is reliable, easy to operate and void of preparation to get it running. It is predictable and accurate…much like digital or streaming. And on the other hand when you step into a vintage auto, sit into it’s worn seat, comfortable and familiar, pump the accelerator pedal (clean the album), turn the key and bring it to life… then listen to the carburetor and exhaust warm up (clicks and pops), ease it into first gear, let out the clutch and enjoy the breeze through the wing-windows while waving back at admirers--that is analog album listening. I enjoy the convenience of digital (Tucson) but I sure enjoy a run around the block in the ole’ Bug (vinyl). It is familiar, comfortable and engaging.
I used to listen to vinyl as a kid in the 80s when the mass transition to digital was still happening. I used to seamlessly swItch back and forth from tape to vinyl to digital without paying much attention to the medium. I liked it all. Since I don’t have any problems connecting to well recorded digital, I’m wondering what is going on with those who fail to be able to enjoy their music that way. I can’t help but conclude that there is a strong psychological prejudice at work. After all, it’s one thing to say that you prefer vinyl for whatever reason, which I can understand, and quite another to say that the very sound of digital is bad or off-putting or uninvolving. Did the glassy sound of some early digital make a lasting negative impression? Then of course there are the people who think DSD sounds like analog and others who say that it’s impossible to tell the difference. The former enjoy DSD but not PCM. It’s been a while since I last listened to analog. Maybe if I did, I’d prefer it. But that’s still different than saying that I feel disconnected to music when listening to digital. That inability to enjoy music if it’s digital is what looks psychosomatic to me.
Great to hear your enthusiasm for analogue Steve. When I go to the orchestra New Zealand Symphony in my case, I hear music that is very little like digital sound that I hear from a digital system. That includes hearing high-end systems in our local audio shops. Real live music has a warmth that digital does not have. Go and listen to live analogue sound and re-tune your ears to the natural world of sound.
I love vinyl as well as digital streaming files and CDs. What I learned after building a custom rega turntable from parts is, for a large part of the population setting up a turntable is too complex. Digital playback is ultimately more scalable, although some turntables require less maintenance and tweaking than others. Growing up there was such thing as a local HiFi store where if your turntable needed a new cartridge, there was someone to help you. Now you are kind of on your own but with online help. We always have to remember that many of us are so lucky to even have a chance to love music and enjoy finer playback no matter what the format.
Grew up with turntables and albums and always felt that CDs were lacking in soul. Then a year ago, I purchased a high end CD player and all of a sudden, I awoke to digital and heard their soul. Now I listen to both. It is just a matter of finding the right source to reach your soul.
That has been my experience as well. My falling back in love with vinyl has actually made me appreciate digital and in particular cd. I realised that one of the major shortcomings of cd was the equipment I was playing them on. When I upgraded my amp, turntable and speakers I also decided to upgrade my cd player which I wasn't going to bother with, but boy did my cd collection sound so much better! However I will always love vinyl more.
I first got into vinyl back in the early 90's listening to my parent's old Sears record player/8 track player in the basement. My system went thru a number of iterations in the last 20 or so years, and about 5 years ago I talked to my Dad, who is a diehard vinyl fan and told him I wanted to buy a record player. This came about after a listening session in his living room playing the Piano Man album. I was just floored with how natural and amazing the piano sounded. Wound up with a Uturn Audio table with a Grado black cart. Vinyl is my favorite source by far, it just relaxes me and wants me crank it up. Digital sounds pretty good thru a DAC, but sometimes it fatigues me even thru my tube preamp which is a battery powered Bottlehead Quickie. There's nothing like listening to a good 70's rock album on vinyl, it just brings me joy.
I think some of the hostility to analog comes from the over the top rhetoric of the analog purists, who really can be tiresome. I like both (much prefer CD to streaming however). The quality of CD playback has increased in the past ten years to an astonishing degree, but not too many people have noticed since the vinyl resurgence has gotten most of the headlines. I noticed Herb Reichert was deeply impressed by a new CD player in Stereophile, and I was happy to read about it, because that has been my experience as well. For any young person, with limited means, who is interested in starting a personal library of music (a very fine thing to do), I have to say going the CD route is a good way to go. The bang for buck quotient is very high, especially as so many dumped their CDs to listen to Spotify instead. (BTW I totally agree the ability to buy different cartridges is so appealing. Just a ton of fun for not a ton of cash.)
I totally agree regarding streaming. There’s something none tangible about the medium, as opposed to CD or Analog . You can hold the music in your hand , see and collect albums. Streaming has its place background music not for serious listening!
So great to hear someone excited about listening to music whether analog or digital. We need people to listen to music instead of watching a Nflix show! Digital is like you said, more convenient but I would add, the most telling test of the analog vs digital sonic comparison is done _only_ via double (or single) blind listening session. Knowing which format one is listening to IMO colours any test. Cheers!
Brian is your point of view merely subjective or can you back it? I'm thinking about getting back into vinyl for those special LPS. I stream but it's so irritating when you loose the signal and sit there waiting for the song to start up again.
@@InPursuitOfLiberty The whole hobby is subjective. The budget equipment has gotten very good though and you don’t need to spend a fortune. A decent budget TT, a good cartridge, a Schiit mani or iFI zen phono and a record cleaner would be all you need but still more than the equivalent digital front end in my opinion.
Without a doubt this is one of my favorite shows. Great speaker too btw😉. Firstly, I have such nostalgia for record albums. The tactile feel in my hands, the smell of the cover, the artwork. I also was so much a part of the change from records, to cassettes, to CDs and now streaming. It’s been my life. Helping people with their turn tables, rescuing tapes out of decks. I remember video discs and the first cd players and being amazed by it. But my heart ❤️ will always be analog in a digital world. I’m SO happy to have been and STILL be part of this industry. I’m all about EVERYONE being able to enjoy however they want. Let’s just listen together ☮️
Headphones convinced me that digital playback sounds by far superior in my experience. I connect emotionally to digital playback. I have no issues with musical involvement using digital sources. I’m not trapped in vinyl prison like so many audiophiles seem to be, digital sets you free and costs less to summit! The armada of audiophile grade flagship headphones on the market today don’t lie! I can’t say that about TH-cam.
Great presentation on the basics and details, as usual. YES! Speaking of cartridges and turntables and whatnot, we really do need a look-in done on PARKER -- himself! It's due, this to see just what he's been up-to these days. I expect really BIG things coming from that 'bad boy' of creative cartridge ideas and crack-engineering. (He and ones like him, after all, ARE 'the future!") Every PARKER interview is an EVENT -- one to be looked- forward-to and, to experience and savor . . . 'till the next! Best it would be as done while in his natural environment of work and creativity but, I suppose, we'll take anything that we might get, and be darned grateful for it. Indeedy! Thanks a pile Steve for all you are and do for our passion. Now, back to my 19th Century wax cylinders . . .
I’m about to revisit LPs after a 35 year hiatus. Had a Technics SL-100 delivered a few days ago. Awaiting a Darlington MP-7 phono preamp and a RigB VM95ML cartridge ETA next week.
Hey SJ…Welcome back…the SL-100’s a beauty. A good ol’ SL-J2 is what brought me back, about 1992. Traded it in…a bunch of TT’s later, I’m right back to one. Got super lucky on eBay. Sent with the shipping locks and all…Popped on a new Grado gold, (P-mount what breeze)…and WOW…your going to have a blast! 🍻
Excellent video, Steve, I sold all my cds in 2009 and moved purely to my own hi res server, within a couple of years, I rarely listened to albums, usually mishmashed playlists, and lost a lot of passion for music. I’d been collecting records since 2000 but never owned a system until 2017. Since moving to vinyl primarily, it’s been such a joy, I wouldn’t trade it for anything. It’s so much more than just the music, so many different unique copies, coloured, etched, incredible jackets in book style, the variety is just wonderful and I haven’t been bored since
Dear Steve you are literally a living and walking treasure as well as a tremendous source of knowledge. I have watched some of your videos so many times (love the one about audiophile snobs..) Your companionship and topics of discussion have helped me so much to go through very rough times the past 3 years in my life and due to the time difference (live in the GCC region mainly due to business obligations) I always watch your latest video first and then go to sleep ..another thing, one of the things you have taught me through audio "lecturing" is to have a wider perspective and a much broader mind in everything life related.
I remember my 1st CD experience. I bought a Technics SL XP7, their fist portable player. I had yet to upgrade from my Panasonic Thrusters. The jump in fidelity was astounding to me. Digital music, from even a modest player took away one of the biggest obstacles to true HIFI, the signal source, and made it available to us mortals allowing us to focus on other system improvements.
I'm that guy watching your video even though I've never understood why people like vinyl. I have to say, what you were saying about music turning into background noise in the digital age does really ring true for me. I love music and listen to tons of music, but it is often as background, and rarely am I solely listening to music. Now that's not to say I'm gonna start listening to vinyl, but I'm gonna start sitting down a bit and just listening to music, doing nothing else. And I certainly do see how the "work" required to play a record would naturally lead to the listener focusing on it more.
Great video, Steve. I still love vinyl very much, but I sold off my vinyl collection, about 2500 LPs and 100 45s, to downsize for a move to a smaller home in Mexico. I owned a Dual 622 direct drive turntable since 1981, that was practically flawless, especially with the Shure V-15 Type IV & Shure V-15 Type V cartridges. Very special sound indeed! I also own about 2600 CDs and a bunch of MiniDiscs, which I love as well; they sound great with more modern players and DACs. I still kept about 100 cassette tapes that still sound great, that I use with a Sony WMD6 Walkman Pro..............
What a great discussion. I mean, you really did a terrific job just addressing the "facts" and more importantly, your opinion on a timeless debate. I am so much in line with your view on this topic. Again, great job! Thanks!
Thank you for this video. You have always struck me as a very focused person who clearly understands his concepts. It seems to me of the utmost importance to emphasize that the "ease" of playing digital tracks makes people not concentrate so much on the act of listening to the music that sounds, however, I can tell you that I spend about 10 hours a day working on my computer, I have configured a system that allows me to listen at the chair I use, and the music that I like accompanies me almost all the time. Sometimes, when what I am doing on the computer requires me to concentrate a lot, I turn off the music. But, on the other hand, very often, I stop working and listen. That experience is lovely. I don't have vinyl simply because I've never owned one, and it's not the time to get into that anymore. But I respect those who revere these records. Regarding vinyl or digital, it's probably more critical how the engineers recorded the music you're listening. For example, it is sad to know that the engineers so poorly recorded Wilhelm Furtwängler's Beethoven symphonies that you cannot hear them on vinyl or digital. Again, thank you for the video and your channel. I enjoy them very much; they are part of my daily life.
Really love your channel. I'm not a high end audiophile, but love reel to reel. Something about it... just so live sounding. I can record a CD on my TEAC or Tandberg decks, and upon playback, the analog feel returns. It's so rewarding to play music on real equipment... machinery... not digital on an iPhone or whatever. Intangibles. Best to you!
Steve, you just hit a high note, that I have felt for years with audio and photography; lazy! I’m a vinyl fan and have been for 55 years, and nothing compares with the process, with perhaps the exception of very expensive reel to reel, I do however miss my old Revox. Before retiring 10 years or so ago I was a pro photographer throughout the 70’s, 80’s, 90’s, and 00’s. Today I still shoot but for my own gratification. My point here is this; with digital so readily available on virtually everyone’s phone, including mine. Far too many people do not have a clue when I talk about depth of field, aperture, fstop’s etc, and I’m not surprised by this just a bit saddened to see what pleasure so many have missed out on, the art of photography, and the process of making a stunning B&W 16x20 image from a 4x5, or 6x6 negative. Of course I use digital imaging myself, but I use camera and interchangeable lenses, perhaps to give me the illusion that I’m going through the process. Thanks for all you do, Patrick
You hit the nail on the head Steve regarding the ease of streaming. It just doesn't mean nearly as much, and music does just become background at least for me. Playing vinyl especially and cds and owning physical media gets me engaged in what I'm listening too. That physicality makes it special!
Having recently put together a great system, with the full intention of getting back into vinyl, my real surprise has been how good cd's sound with a great DAC and speakers. The vinyl has been fun, but even after cleaning every album, there is a fry-cook working away in the background. I've also been shocked by the number of newly purchased LP's that came warped.
I’m definitely in the vinyl group. I love everything about it. The sound, dropping the needle, reading/looking at the cover, etc. I disagree with you Steve that CD days are limited. I’m expecting as the generation that grew up with CDs will dive back in just like us 60s & 70s decades vinyl players. I have access to thousands of CDs and I keep grabbing them expecting in 10 years I’ll make a bundle!
I like both. I would say I stream more than anything. As stated, it is just so convenient. However, I am not streaming because I think it has superior sound. Like many others, a record despite all it is failings, plus being a total pain to upkeep and use; is still my favorite way to listen. Digital has an ephemeral feel to me, it is so pristine that it seems otherworldly at times. Whereas, when I listen to a record it feels more organic. That there is actual flesh and bone to the performance. Therefore, to my ear, analog is more natural sounding. It is the source that resonates with me the most, allowing me to have a deeper connection to the music than digital is able to provide.
I love analog, especially vinyl. But lately I’ve been going off in a whole new - old direction - fm tuners. It all started when I dug up a Scott 314 tuner from 1963 and it sounded soo good! Well I’ve picked up 5 other tuners since. A Lafayette LT-250, it has 14 tubes and is from 1965, and was built by Kenwood in Japan it’s a work of art - the obvious care it was made with makes me wanna cry, ($30 including hardly used tubes), then there’s the Magnum Dynalab which doesn’t have vibe of the others but is a real baseline to evaluate them with - its the precision of the digital readouts and the stellar reception that puts it on par with anything in in audio today. The pioneer from the early 70’s really is the pinnacle of stylish it commands it’s space in innumerable and ineffable ways including a warm sound that will seduce you and the Marantz 120B makes me feel like I am cheating on my wife and the other tuners too. These were all acquired on the cheap and compared to the cost of anything new these day -unbelievable. Got’m all from the usual used online sources and all of them worked and looked great right out of the box. I think in a way I am lucky where I am living and the available reception and that I have the rooms for each of these to show off on their own. If you are at all inclined, go for it FM radio lives is still awesome. Viva-la FM and it’s still free
Yes, early digital recordings and players falsely promised "perfect sound forever." But the "forever" claim was right, as compared to vinyl, which invariably picks up noise and has deterioration of the grooves over the years. In contrast, I have never had a CD deteriorate--they all sound the same as the day I bought them. Actually, better..., because players have improved since the 1980s, as well as digital recording techniques. After ripping some vinyl records that weren't likely to appear on CD, I gave away a dozen boxes of vinyl and never looked back.
Don't miss the snap, crackle and pop at all. If anything takes me out of the moment it's hearing a large pop emanating from a record album on the turntable. Agree that the CD's day is done but it's easy enough to download digital music.
My thoughts are...there is a place for both. I love vinyl-- but I am also fond of the cd transport/dac/jitter 20 bit sound too. We in the Audio community have a personal relationship with our gear, the end result should be being in love with our music!
Steve - Coming from a person that despises most forms of social media, I must say that I find your programming to be absolutely enjoyable! Believe me, that’s an achievement. Today was especially great simply because you took a balanced approach to discussing a subject that has a tendency to show how polarized we can be as a community that shares a common love and appreciation for music. As a follow up to today’s subject, a similar exploration of your perspectives with regard to tube vs. solid state technology would be interesting. Keep up the good work my friend!
i have had TT's since i can remember and still love analog. remembering back to the first time i heard a CD i had just moved into a new house in southeast baltimore , rowhouse. after puttering around for a bit i all of a sudden heard some music coming from next door , it was loud and so crystal clear. i thought the guy must have been in a band and they were practicing. a day or so later i met the neighbor and asked him about the music , he said it was a CD player i was blown away , this was in the late 80's. i also have CD's and a CD player and enjoy them as well as enjoying streaming.
I like my LPs and I keep upgrading my analogue chain because of my collection, but is easier and cheaper to make a good sounding digital chain. Nowadays CDs are cheaper the vinyl, so that's what I mainly buy. I love music, not formats!
I love everything about vinyl. I love the work you put in to it. I love cleaning vinyl and experimenting with different cartridges, and speakers. I love tweaking the sound, rolling tubes and speaker placement. Sticking a cd in a tray and hitting play is boring.
It soley Tidal/Roon and Vinyl for me. Mainly digital because that is the only affordable way to keep discovering "new to me" music. But I would prefer vinyl....
Absolutely agree, Steve. I think analog vs. digital is like music played by humans with real instruments vs. music created on a computer. The latter is always in the perfect pitch, the tempo is dead steady and all that, but it’s the imperfections what makes it human and alive and highly expressive. I love real music played with real instruments, and I love vinyl. New subscriber here, btw!
I like human imperfections too. But the reproduction method must be as perfect and accurate as possible to be able to hear those meaningful imperfections the right way.
@8:00 and for me is Vinyl way too hectic. For every track skipping you need to stand up where streaming is just one click and you instantly can put the ipad beside. Two of the most important reasons why i prefer streaming, most of the Albums have only a few good tracks on it (=hectic to stand up and move the needle) and you cant get Singles / EP's on Vinyl. I dont hate Vinyl, for me its just not my kind of Medium i want my music on, because i dont see any benefits. - Just an small amount of Records are on Vinyl - too much potencial failure sources with vinyl (dust, bad vinyl quality etc) - you need way too much space for all the Vinyls - and in the old days there wasnt anything better as most people talk. Just because its ,,Retro,, it isnt automatically better, same with Vintage Audio Gear or so... its not an sign of quality and at the end, nearly every Analog Source was at some point an Digital Waveform ;-)... but hey, why always the black & white discussions, let ervyone enjoy their music how he wants, and when its an 128kbits MP3 with an 150€ Stereo System.. who cares, its all about enjoying Hifi & Music
In very old days I experienced the same - I appreacited the most only some vinyl tracks. Which were they? I remember it well - those which were amazingly sounding on my setup. Some records could sound dull. By analoque - some of my reel to reel recordings which were gained from studio turntables in radio station had amazing for me quality others had shortages because to lift it's performance I was servicing permamently that machine The result was mostly apparent and fixed on tape . So even I recorded only best my choice of music I listened later some more often and other skipped . What I did not understand then was case of vinyl recordings - my turntable was low quality, wearing vinyls and only choosen tracks were realy exciting. Just listened to 25% of them Now after 50 years I set up system which handles all with obvious perfection and it is my personal experience that I feel like I do not want to skip anything because all sounds too pleasant to skip. LPs I have on my storage is not imprssive in number so I not needed big space but it matches my taste so much above all around that when I am in mood for performer I prefer not to skip anything. May be if I would buy LPs for collection reason I would have problem of choosing. and then I would prefer streaming Anyway - having own LPs I have it in my own care. having acccess in net it is not granted that tomorrow It will be still for me or at all available. You are right - justy because something is retro is not enough, It should be also used with care and kept in perfect condition and it should be made up to high technical standards which were met in analog with ease. But not retro made in cheap plastic economy way for youth .
That's the other beauty of software. Instead of adding an entire Qobuz album, I can choose specific tracks. Roon then presents the album as if the other tracks never existed! This is wonderful for many albums that had only 2 or 3 good tracks.
Started listening to your channel right around when I experimented reintroducing vinyl to my audio source options. I delved back right into vinyl and thanks to your great reviews, I discovered so many other aspects of music listening. I’m a happy camper, thanks to you Steve 👍
I pretty much agree with your entire presentation, Steve - I'm not a baseball or football fan either. 😁 I also deeply prefer vinyl (analogue, that is), so I have to seek out and buy older (pre 1980) LPs to get what I want. I have some CDs and of course any LP of the last 40 years is likely to have been digitally remastered. To me playing a record is something one should take the time to enjoy, a "romantic" adventure, perhaps much like a Japanese tea "ceremony" (sadō/chadō (茶道, 'The Way of Tea') or chanoyu (茶の湯)), a cultural activity.) If I just want background music while running around the house - I'll play CDs. If I want to sit, relax, listen and enjoy, I'll play LPs.
Many years in the past I had a Dual 1215, 1218, Empire, Sony 2251 LA with SME arm and finally a Linn Sondek with a Vestigal Arm playing in my Klipschorn plywood cabinets (all I could afford in college ). I built several Dynaco kits including two Dynaco 400s but I loved the turntables the most. It was always rewarding to clean the records with the Discwasher before and after playing the album. So engaging like a ritual. That involvement was never there with CDs I plan to build a system around a pair of Polk R700s which are on order. Budgeting about $1000 for turntable and cartridge. Don’t know what yet but can’t wait. Love vinyl and the engaging nature of using it. Amplifier who knows So many good choices.
Thanks for these great insights, Steve, your channel is truly inspiring - especially as I am not into any particular 'camp' or 'tribe' - it's all about the music! Best, Carlo
Hi Steve, I enjoyed your talk on analog. It seems to me that most naysayers of analog are probably younger than you and me and didn’t experience it during their youth. This is when we associated the music with growing up and discovering the world including the emotions of more adult interpersonal relationships including sex. And that includes the rituals of playing vinyl along with the unique sound of records. We know in our heads that digital measures better but our emotions prefer the vinyl because we can recall those emotions much like we remember our mother or grandmother when we smell certain things cooking in the kitchen. I enjoy listening to both as well. I also think the laziness your mention with digital actually started with the cassette era mix tapes we made for parties or road trips. Keep on truckin with your channel.
Early digital was pretty primitive and was no comparison in sound to a decent turntable. That has truly changed…I love my digital set-up (after a 3-year, expensive journey 😁), and am not willing to emotionally re-engage into vinyl with the cost (I am OCD 🤓), the insanity of turntables, cartridges, head amps, collecting expensive records, etc…etc…etc… but I sooooooo get it! I admire analog enthusiasts and their dedication and pursuit of perfection. It’s all GOOD! (Secretly I have FOMO!). WHAT A GREAT TIME TO BE AN AUDIOPHILE! 👍🏼😀👍🏼
Another enjoyable and provocative topic from Steve. As a long time recording, mixing and mastering engineer specializing in jazz, my perspective on this topic is a bit different than most of the listeners here. The process of creating a recording from acoustic instrument and vocal sources so fundamentally "distorts" reality by compressing the actual dynamic range of the performance to work in a home listening environment, that it's more a matter of which flavor of distortion one prefers. Additionally vinyl requires this compression to make playback with a needle physically possible. A recording that "sounds" analog for instance is more a reflection of the production team's personal taste than anything else. Likewise an end listener chooses the type of listening system that he or she prefers. The beauty of art is that there are no right answers no matter how much some try to to apply scientific principles to it.
As an audio engineer, vinyl is like putting catsup in a milk shake. It doesn't resemble the sound going into the microphones in anyway. There is three turntables in my house and every time I play vinyl all I hear is multiple distortions I no longer have to deal with anymore.
You hit the nail on the head regarding how people listen today. People have lost the ability to actively or critically listen. I don’t know that I could say that it has solely been brought about by no longer listening to records, but you are definitely correct, in saying that people have become lazy with their listening habits due to the improvements in convenience. I have been enjoying my own personal reawakening of my enjoyment of final recordings from having recently moved my record collection out of storage and boxes to shelves where are can access them again. When I did this, I played a few records and the first thought was “why did I ever think that CDs were superior in every way?“
when i play a record, i sit on the sofa as if i were attending a concert. the album cover is my "program". the whole point of recorded music is to create a facsimile of a performance.
It would be difficult to imagine you were at a concert when listening to recordings which are mostly made in studios and are not live recorded performances. PS. I don't think you will find any sofas to sit on at concerts, unless you bring your own and they let you take it in.
That is what many of us boomers want. But the generations after us boomers haven't a clue what a live performance sounds like, and those that do have an experience that is nothing but incredibly loud PA noise, audiences which make the concert about themselves, and light and stage shows that are nothing about music. Who wants to recreate that? These subsequent generations know something about music through their cell phones and Spotify. They love the quiet of digital.
I like both, but there are some instances that I feel vinyl is better and some cases digital is better. At it's worse digital to me can be fatiguing and flat, where vinyl can be more spacious and pleasing to the ear. But with a good digital recording it can go above and beyond. I guess it also depends on the dac. But hey, I'm into the best of both worlds.
You have hit the nail on the head here Bob. I have both a Rega turntable (P8) and a Rega CD player. Some albums sound shocking on CD but great on vinyl and vice versa. I know why sometimes a vinyl record sounds poor but in this day an age I cannot understand why some of the CDs for recent releases sound as bad as they do. Looks like some labels have already given up on the format. The problem is you end up buying both formats if the one you get first sounds bad.
Thank you, Bob. I appreciate your comment. I favor vinyl, but there are some cd's that just sound amazing. Additionally, it's nice to see people express their views without all the anger and hatred. Listen to whatever you enjoy. I think streaming sounds empty, but I don't mind that people like it. I have over 1000 cd's. I love putting them on and enjoying. I was listening to Phish the other night. Sounded fantastic through my Magnepans. Sometimes I play a record that was not recorded as well and I'm not as involved. But there is quite often a realness to the sound on vinyl that is quite natural and rarely fatiguing.
This was very interesting for me Steve. I am in my 70s now and have owned hi-fi equipment for 50 years. I sold my vinyl collection with the advent of CD but have now been buying it back for many years. Just a couple of points which you didn't raise. My preference over the years depended on how much I could afford to spend. In 1983 when I bought the first Philip CD player it would not of been better than the Pink Triangle but was cheaper. I would suspect that lower budget people will still do better with CD. With the vinyl system I now have, I tend to play vinyl much more often than CD or streaming. You made a good point about CD being rather "two-dimensional". (And that's not a comment about the depth of the recording.) My experience now is that the emotion and musicianship I hear in the artists on vinyl is a step above CD. They simply sound like better musicians.
I remember hearing some musicians discuss analog on the radio, and one said that the preference for vinyl was due to the infinitesimal delay in the signal, a type of harmonic distortion which listeners hear as warmth. I don't know if that's true, but he sounded like he knew what he was talking about.
I've read an article about how there's a difference between 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion between analog and digital because of the signal processing and one sounds more pleasing to the human ear than the other.
Yes you can do that with the sound fields on some receivers. With vinyl there's also bleed over between the channels and it sort of simulates a surround type atmosphere.
@@keplermission Holy moly I'm going to need a special kind of translator to understand most of what you've said here. I'm 66 years of age and I know that my hearing isn't what it used to be so I would venture to guess that there are a lot of people just like me that if they were to take a blind test with a good digitally reproduced piece of music and a good analog reproduced piece side by side they would be hard pressed to be able to tell the difference between the two. Even though I still like the feeling of holding an album from a vinyl record in my hands as I listen to that album. I think it might have something to do with the tactile sense we have as well as having a nicely sized piece of art work and liner notes to look at. Most digital music usually comes with just a small disc or even less so it at least feels like I'm really getting something extra for the money I spend. It sure is hard to deny that digital is usually much more convenient as well as so much more of a mobile format.
Vinly when I really want to enjoy some music from my vinyl collection. Streaming when I want to check out new music. Sometimes play files from my own digital archive, now that I got a couple of nice Chord dacs that start to sound quite nice as well. I have just invested a bit in new vinyl playback, slightly used Dr Feickert woodpecker TT, with Ortofon arm. Allnic Rose, Ortofon Cadenza red, Kiseki PurpleHeart and Hana ML pickup's to choose from.
As an old guy with gray in my hair and beard, I've owned hundreds of LP Records from back in the 60's and 70's. Even before CD's, I hated the inconvenience of LP's. The scratches & skips, getting up to turn it over to side two, not to mention the album degradation that seemed inevitable, no matter how careful you were with them. When I heard my first CD, I was hooked on digital. I went whole-hearted into digital and never looked back. I can remember in the 90's, brand new albums could be bought at close-out prices and I just knew LP records were going to die the death I felt they deserved. But there were still the rappers out there who liked to do the DJ thing with albums, the remixes etc. But then artists started releasing albums again. I remember hearing that Pearl Jam released one of their albums on vinyl a few days before they released it on CD and I was completely confused. I'll be honest, I still don't get the attraction people have with vinyl, but hey, you do you, and I'll do me. How can scratches & pops sound more real?
I couldn't agree with you more. I've been totally cd from 1985. As far as I'm concerned it's the greatest leap forward in sound since the cylinder roll, or the player piano.
Plus, there's the amazing things they can do with old analog recordings, like make them almost noise free. Try that with a vinyl lp! I got so sick of LPs, and there attendant noise, that when I heard CDs I IMMEDIATELY dumped LPs primitive "technology" and jumped into CDs feet 1st, and never looked back.
I broadly agree, especially about inconvenience and degradation, although I can see the appeal of bigger artwork on LPs (for many collectors, it seems a major part of the appeal). The only downside of CDs is that some of them are badly mastered and overcooked, killing the dynamics.
Interesting conversation and one I had with myself a long time ago. The first Apple iPod changed my relationship with music. It was so easy to go from headphones to laptop to the car to home and it became consumable. I went from loving it to losing appetite. I wondered how it was possible for a human being to lose interest in music. I had a similar relationship to photography. I used to take such care with film and that was kind of lost with digital. So I ditched it and went all in on analogue. No dac or streamer at home. I invested time in the front end, turntable, phono stage and amp. I think the decision to purchase a particular album, sourcing the right pressing, adding it to my collection and then taking care of it provides a connection in a way that digital didn’t. This makes me happy and don’t think I’ll go back.
Love them both! Streaming Sade through my Bluesound/Denafrips combo right now. And later I'm going to spin my new Analog Productions vinyl release of Mile Davis "Someday My Prince WIll Come" on my Technics 1500c. It's ALL good!
You are absolutely right Steve. It is just a question of personal taste and digital is for convenience. I' ve been a music lover and stereo enthusiast since my teens (circa 1973). Until now, nothing beats the sound of the reel to reel tape. This is my personal taste.
I agree that vinyl does sound great, but the clicks, pops and surface noise simply drove me nuts. I have found that I can digitally record at 24/96 a good sounding LP, remove the clicks and pops with digital signal processing, and come out with a copy that sounds nearly identical to the LP without the garbage (and it doesn't get worse with every play). I have concluded that the analog processing used to make an LP changes the sound in a pleasing manner to most people.
Steve I totally agree with your presentation. When my turntable needed a new cartridge and I could not use it I relied on CDS. That only increased my admiration for vinyl Thanks Steve 😊
I can relate to feeling a more visceral and involving connection to the music when playing vinyl LP's vs. CDs or streaming. However, LP surface noise can be quite intrusive for classical recordings with lengthly slow/quiet movements, whereas jazz from the 50's and 60's really comes into its own played by from my record deck vs. ultra-clean playback from one of my digital sources. If I had to live with just analog or just digital I would have to choose digital because of the limited selection of music that can actually be purchased as vinyl today.
Great video. Another thing: with streaming it’s very easy to jump from “album” to “album”. But when I’m listening to vinyl I get to experience the artist’s entire creation.
this right here, absolutely. album track lists are *tailored* to make for a full experience, or at least they were (not being a grumpy old man, i just don't dig into newer music as much - so maybe i am being a grumpy old man). but today's formats of consumption make it easy to pick and choose tracks, and we miss out on that aspect of the experience. note i said "we" - i'm as guilty of hitting go on a playlist as anyone. but when i drop the needle on an lp, i listen to the whole album. it's just more inherent to the format.
Great video, Steve! (Always) As one who records music with a variety of sources (drums, voices, guitars) although in the digital realm, we are always trying to make it sound as analog as possible. Tube preamps, tube mics, and of course plug-ins that emulate “tape and analog” are used constantly. It strikes me as funny that the folks who snub it are the same folks striving to hear it in their “digital” only world.
Why though? Why not buy MQA online and build a digital library on a hard drive? CD is the lowest acceptable quality these days. If you really wanted a CD you could make it yourself using the MQA files.
@@SamBorgman 1-I prefer to own my music. 2-I do not currently use a streaming service. 3-When I did pay for streaming, I used Qobuz (MQA is a joke in my opinion), 4-Almost always, the CD sounds better than streaming. How is that?
@@Big-J-8579 Why MQA is a joke? Aren't they the studio master? Never bought them but CDs are burned using studio masters, which is supposed to be the same as the MQA files. I know CD's are better than lossless, streamed or your own CD rips.
@@SamBorgman I will not go into the MQA controversy but you can search it on the internet. I am in the "its a money grab scam camp." Some people prefer MQA to Hi-Res downloads me I can't tell the difference, so why pay for MQA. I don't.
Steve, been a listener for years, love your work. I note that you have stated in this chapter, as well as others, that "Air was moving". Most Audiophiles get this wrong, air does not move when speakers play. What one feels when standing in front of a large speaker is "acoustic energy". Jiggling molecules transmit energy. Speakers are not fans... Though I am, in your case.
@@stevemurrell6167 It's the medium that limited "brickwalling" for vinyl. You can't compress an analog recording the same way as digital because the stylus of most record cartridges wouldn't be able to track those grooves. And a highly compressed and loud analog recording takes up way more surface space which CDs don't have to contend with. The change in musical genres also affected the care that was taken to create a high fidelity recording. Recording techs that worked for Frank Sinatra would have been notified having to work with Metallica.
I prefer analogue but I fully agree. If done properly, CD sounds amazing. It's a pity that more care is not taken in the production of so many CD's. (Same as many analogue recordings, so many factors involved, care is often not taken) If the ultimate skill and care were always used, most people wouldn't be able to tell what format it was.
I went to a friend's place yesterday and swapped some 45s for 33s. Sat down with a glass of wine gazing through the album covers. I handed over a 45 that I've had since 1982 knowing that it will be played by my DJ friend. All good fun.
I prefer digital, but nothing against vinyl and like hearing about it. And even though it is technically inferior, in practice it's often given more care and individual vinyl RECORDINGS do sound better.
Couldn't agree with you more. I don't mind CDs and digital files, but when you go through the ritual of getting an album ready, it puts you in the frame of mind to really sit down and listen to the work of the musicians. With digital it's very easy to click on it and go back to what you were doing. That's fine sometimes but it's also nice to just sit on the couch, close your eyes, and pretend you're getting a private concert.
Steve I tend to agree with you about analog vs digital. I had a similar experience back in the 80's when I was a salesperson at an audio store in Connecticut. In fact I still have a Sheffield Labs T-shirt that says "Stop Digital Madness". I have owned a number of turntables and enjoyed some amazing cartridges while listening to all types of music. However, for the past 20+ years I have been enjoying the convenience of digital playback. The improvement in digital playback systems and recordings especially DSD to me is amazing. There are many times while listening to my system that I forget about the components and just become totally consumed by the music . I noticed this more with live recordings and some very well recorded studio recordings. Back when I had turntables I never liked most live records so I was surprised to find that I enjoy them better now. I am not anti analog but I do love being able to listen to what I want at the by looking at my smart phone and touching the album picture or going to a playlist. One more comment: as a former New Yorker I can't understand how you are not interested in baseball! Just go to Yankee stadium once and tell me you didn't enjoy the experience. Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing your time with the audiophile community.
I truly enjoy your videos, Steve. I love vinyl records and turntables. They offer a sound and feeling that digital music and compressed audio files can’t match.
Steve, You bring up the Age Old Topic of Analogue Vs. Digital. At 1.30 you mention your first exposure to CDs in 1983. I'm 71 YO, a Music afficionado, not an Audiophiliac, and waited until circa 1987 to compare my first CD : Born in the USA !!. At that time, I just purchased my first true high end Stereo system which I still have to this day: NAD 1300 Preamp, NAD 2600 Amp, Dual CS5000 TT with Shure Cartridge, a Onkyo 6 Disc CD player and a pair of KEF 104/2 Tower speakers No EQs, No SWs]. After setting the system up, I played the vinyl LP against the CD version. The CD was Tinny and had No Warmth. In fact, I declared that CDs would not last - like the Laser Video Discs. However, I continued to obtain CDs, primarily for the convenience. Then a few years later. I bought the Abraxis Album - a Remastered CD - by Santana. That CD Blew me Away by the Sound.! I continue to play both formats - as the Mood strikes me - and like many others added Music Streaming in HiFi Plus. On occassion, I will "experiment" - playing my Re-issued copy of Tommy by The Who LP, my original LP (with its slight scratches and pops), The CD version, and the Streamed version. Each has its own "Flavor". I have to admit though, the enhancements in HiFi + (Tidal) sound Magnificent with great clarity. The LPs still maintain that slight difference in Warmth. At least to my ear. As you said, Streaming or Multi Disc CD players sdd a tremendous convenience Benefit to the Music Playing Formula. THX for your Video.
Definitely a Senior here and I have to say I’m almost totally listening to cd’s these days. While I have a large vinyl collection and a pretty nice “vintage” analog setup, they’ve fallen into disuse for the reasons you detailed. I hope cd’s don’t go away but you’re right it sure looks like their days are numbered. Streaming holds little interest…beyond my interest in some of the technical improvements…and I’ve said this before, it’s akin to listening to stereo fm radio…just my $.02
Vinyl buyers are more likely to be actually listening?...ha ha...when they even have a turntable. The Luminate 2022 year-end report of music sales found that 50% of people who are buying vinyl don't even have a turntable. Vinyl is just a souvenir to them which they never listen to. Pathetic.
You are spot on with this Steve, when I play my LPs it's because I wanna sit down and listen and I love the whole ritual and connection that comes with that ritual, when I stream it is convenient and easy and it does become background music a lot of the time, LPs are here because god loves us
Hahahaha - love that part about LPs being here because god loves us…. Quite a cool thought. I would note, though, when i sit down and play my CD for listening session, i love the whole ritual of selecting the CD, setting the room up - - and the listening couch, pressing play… and sitting back to enjoy. I’m not sure how that differs much from what your experience is with vinyl.
Più passa il tempo e più apprezzo il tuo stile, la tua competenza, le tua sincera passione per la musica conla giusta ironia, un Mix perfetto! Bravo Stevie, We R Audiophiliac 🎸
Sometimes you just have to laugh, people spending small fortunes trying to get their streams to sound like vinyl & CDs, spend that money on physical media and you will always own it 🙂
I definitely lean toward vinyl, I find it easier to get immersed in the music and, fortunately, I have a setup that allows vinyl to sound good. I also listen to CDs and stream with great pleasure at times. I really like streaming as a way of checking out new artists and albums I want to hear. In general, I’m very album-oriented, I don’t listen to playlists and I don’t skip songs. I want to hear what the artist has to offer. In each setting, I appreciate a well-recorded album that I can sit down and listen to intently.
@@mikevalentinas6766 BS, many faulty pressings gives crackles and pops even when never played before. That’s my problem with vinyl, first you have to be lucky with the pressing you got. Then you have to pray nobody in your household will damage it and even then it will deteriorate over time. With the premium prices of vinyl today it’s not worth the investment to me.
Steve you are talking about the quality of digital from it's early days in the early 80's. I am sure you know that it has improved big time since then. Like you I was also an early digital adapter and was disappointed too. But now the quality of High End DAC plus Hi-Res files can sound as good or even better than High End vinyl rig. People love to romanticized their vinyl experienced and its all part of nostalgia that help the vinyl comeback. The best thing is we have more choices now or we can have it all if we want to.
The biggest challenge with digital is finding properly recorded and mastered material. The digital file downloads and CDs are usually compressed and don’t sound as good as the vinyl release of the same recording. Some of my best digital downloads are the ones from Neil Young’s now defunct online PONO store.
The engineers choose to issue music with compression regardless of what media it is on. You have to compress and limit range for vinyl; you do not have to compress and limit for cd but an engineer still may do so or do it by a greater amount.
I like both formats but I would select Digital over Analog. Probably because that is what I grew up with. Now that said, when I’m home and actively listening, I play more LPs than anything. There is just something about the ritual that I like. It prepares you for the listening experience. I can’t seem to get that with CD, let alone streaming. Keep rocking!
Great conversation. I’m one of those that grew up on analogue but switched to digital in 1987. With that said, while I still had my records i picked up a B and O used turntable and while it was working I found that analog could indeed be better than digital. It broke and I started moving around for work so I landed on digital for the convenience. Now with a family it’s all digital but I’ve been starting to get back in to analog little by little. The biggest challenge with analog is the cost of getting to a level I am satisfied with. It’s a slow process at the moment.
These kind of videos where he gives a lecture are the best...love getting a lecture from a salesman. Hey genius...if you look at the comments on your CD player videos you'll probably see people with negative comments about CDs...and if you look at the comments on your (few) streamer videos, you'll probably see negative comments about streaming...welcome to the internet! People have opinions on the internet, just like in real life! Crazy, huh?
I thought I preferred my turntable, until I moved up to a better DAC that made digital recordings sound equally good overall. When the sound is as good overall, I prefer digital because it's so much easier and more straightforward to deal with (putting it on isn't the main problem, but cleaning, storing, etc.). So, I'm in the long process of digitizing my favorite records. I think that both digital and analog CAN sound wonderful, but when high-quality digital doesn't sound as good as analog, I bet it comes down to the album's mastering rather than the digital gear.
*There’s an Audiophiliac/Steve Guttenberg imposter scamming my viewers, There’s no FREE gifts. DON’T respond! I don't do giveaways or ask for money (except for my Patreon)*
well, there was a period in the 80s and through all of the 90s and into the early 2000s when vinyl just about died while dropping drastically in sales every year in that time period since the CD came out. And for the $150 or so price of a typical 80s CDP, no TT system could come even close to the sound. Majority of people did not own higher priced TTs back then. So SQ is a major reason for the rise in CDP and decline in TT. Plus you could play it in the car and portable players too, unlike vinyl. One this generation of people all die, I am sure vinyl sales will soon start to die again.
@@keplermission uh, no, I did not know that. but now that you told me, uh yeah, cool story.
As I remember the major difference from analogue in the early cd players was the top end.
They seemed to all sound all top end.
Everything was still there, but muted by so much high frequencies.
How cool was it back then to have a cd tray that could be opened closed by a remote? 😂
@@keplermission uhhhhh
@@SemtêxČØŴv2.0 I remember my first integrated system with the remote lol that was so futuristic at the time, hilarious now.
It blows my mind what sounds come out of a needle dragging across vinyl! I’m always amazed when we play records. So neat.
Still one of the true wonders of the world. How can it sounds so good?!
Hi Steve. I completely agree with you . Am I an audiophile? You be the judge. I am 67 years of age. I was a subscriber to the magazine Stereo Review since I was 11 years old. I subscribed on my own and read each issue from cover to cover at least once. When in 1969 my parents decided to get a new sound system ( they were upgrading from a Dumont small console) I told them easily and off the cuff what to buy. The salesman at the store could not believe how easy was for this 12 year old to be so surely footed and determined about what to get within the budget dad had informed me I should not exceed. My choices were: a pair of Acoustic Research, so called then bookshelf loudspeakers, they were three way loudspeakers, an acoustic research 80 watts amplifier, and a Garrard turntable. Not the most expensive Garrard with the Formosia wood in the tone arm, because my dad said the price was excessive. We got the model just below that one. And for cartridge we got a Shure that at the time it had a price of 120 USD which half of it I paid with my paper route money. Once we got home I wired the whole thing up and proceeded to give an explanation to my parents about a world they have never entered before. I guided them to perceive staging, imaging, channel separation, tone, timbre, choose the speakers location and how it all was affected by tracking force, azimuth and external vibrations invading the area where the turntable resides. I was 12 years of age, born and growing up in an upper middle class suburb of San Juan, Puerto Rico.
I do not have a high end system these days. My turntable, cartridge, integrated amp, cd player and B&W loudspeakers amount to only 11k USD. In no way comparable to the magnitude of equipment and sophistication you are accustomed to see, possess and enjoy. I am a pauper in comparison. Pretty much a no one. But I love music. And the trascendental moment happens when I sit down to listen to music. Then the equipment disappears and the final reduct of it all is the most magical moment I can experience as a mortal. It does not matter if it is Lorena Mackenit, Allan Parsons, Barbara Streisand, the Who, Phillip Glass, Celia Cruz, Puccini or Ottorino Respighi. I listen to it and I derive a joy from it that benefits my physical and mental well being. I am a fan of vinyl and to this day I wear sterile gloves to handle my vinyl. Nobody touches my vinyl. Some of them are 48 years of age. Several are half speed direct pressings from the metal master. Barely any clicks and pops. If any. I also enjoy CD’s.
What I don’t understand is taking music for granted. A sophisticated turntable worth its salt is a musical instrument. Like a violin it has the capacity to be tweaked and finely adjusted. It is a machine you approach with respect and knowledge. When one listens to music one does not clean the house, fry an egg or take phone calls. I am very concerned as an old man where our extreme materialistic mindset is taking us. It is definitely toward a lesser world. Thank you.
The first CD I heard was Fleetwood Mack, Tango In The Night. For me, it was an amazing experience. I could not believe how clear and crisp it sounded, all the problems of Analogue gone. I still have that CD and it still plays perfectly. For me digital is king but I get why people still love analogue.
My favourite video of yours by far. I’m not a digital hater but definitely an analogue lover. I love vinyl with all of its faults. There is nothing like spinning one of your favourite albums and all of the ritual that goes with it. Thanks very much for this video Steve.
23 year old here, I totally agree with your statement on how digital music doesn’t require the focus and attention that playing an LP does. When I put a record on I am present in the music. I also think there’s a special feeling that comes with playing a whole album beginning to end rather than just putting shuffle on a playlist with over one hundred songs.
Ahhh....you can play a cd from beginning to end; you can't do that with an Lp. Your habit of making playlists, go round robin juke box style, playing an artists entire discography in one setting in on you and the form of media.
But you can do exactly what you are saying on digital too and have a choice to skip the music you don't like at the comfort of your couch that you cannot to on vinyl . It's all on you.
Vinyl is today, for attentive focused listening.I don't mean to say anything bad about other forms of music, but it's mainly convenience. This was archived in the 60's with reckord changers with auto stops, etc. Our parents used to do house work, with a stack of reckords. Today an avid listener is right there, we have way better cartridges and tonearms and listening is an art. Streaming has improved but has a way to go.
@@lenperera6851 I feel the same things you mentioned but about compact disc. I think there's different types of listening even done by the same listener. Sometimes you listen to figure out the key or time signature. Other times you want to have an immersive enjoyment. If you are in a record store, you might try to listen for anomalies and surface noise. I do notice one thing. Some people don't feel the music and I find it hard not to even at low volumes over a computer.
@@lenperera6851 unless you have not try i high quality streamer connected to a high end Dac you will never know what you are missing.
Before the return of vinyl a few years back and before streaming, I realized that I missed that physical connection that the whole analog experience used to give me. I love finessing the cartridge/turntable relationship and reading about new gear. I love the packaging and presentation that’s put into the album and the fact that you can read the print without a magnifying glass. Steve is 100% right on every point so nothing else needs to be said.
When issuing cd's, they should have either utilized the long box or provided a 12 inch album jacket.
I truly enjoyed your presentation of the “argument” between these two mediums.
I may offer an automotive analogy… I’ve owned a 1965 Volkswagen Bug (analog…and very much so an analog machine) and a brand new Hyundai Tucson (digital).
Certainly it is magnificent to get into the Tucson and know that it is reliable, easy to operate and void of preparation to get it running. It is predictable and accurate…much like digital or streaming.
And on the other hand when you step into a vintage auto, sit into it’s worn seat, comfortable and familiar, pump the accelerator pedal (clean the album), turn the key and bring it to life… then listen to the carburetor and exhaust warm up (clicks and pops), ease it into first gear, let out the clutch and enjoy the breeze through the wing-windows while waving back at admirers--that is analog album listening.
I enjoy the convenience of digital (Tucson) but I sure enjoy a run around the block in the ole’ Bug (vinyl). It is familiar, comfortable and engaging.
Vinyl lives. Both mediums have a lot to offer. But I’ll always cherish and enjoy my records. It is visceral. Visceral is good.
I used to listen to vinyl as a kid in the 80s when the mass transition to digital was still happening. I used to seamlessly swItch back and forth from tape to vinyl to digital without paying much attention to the medium. I liked it all. Since I don’t have any problems connecting to well recorded digital, I’m wondering what is going on with those who fail to be able to enjoy their music that way. I can’t help but conclude that there is a strong psychological prejudice at work. After all, it’s one thing to say that you prefer vinyl for whatever reason, which I can understand, and quite another to say that the very sound of digital is bad or off-putting or uninvolving. Did the glassy sound of some early digital make a lasting negative impression? Then of course there are the people who think DSD sounds like analog and others who say that it’s impossible to tell the difference. The former enjoy DSD but not PCM. It’s been a while since I last listened to analog. Maybe if I did, I’d prefer it. But that’s still different than saying that I feel disconnected to music when listening to digital. That inability to enjoy music if it’s digital is what looks psychosomatic to me.
Great to hear your enthusiasm for analogue Steve. When I go to the orchestra New Zealand Symphony in my case, I hear music that is very little like digital sound that I hear from a digital system. That includes hearing high-end systems in our local audio shops. Real live music has a warmth that digital does not have. Go and listen to live analogue sound and re-tune your ears to the natural world of sound.
I love vinyl as well as digital streaming files and CDs. What I learned after building a custom rega turntable from parts is, for a large part of the population setting up a turntable is too complex. Digital playback is ultimately more scalable, although some turntables require less maintenance and tweaking than others. Growing up there was such thing as a local HiFi store where if your turntable needed a new cartridge, there was someone to help you. Now you are kind of on your own but with online help. We always have to remember that many of us are so lucky to even have a chance to love music and enjoy finer playback no matter what the format.
Grew up with turntables and albums and always felt that CDs were lacking in soul. Then a year ago, I purchased a high end CD player and all of a sudden, I awoke to digital and heard their soul. Now I listen to both. It is just a matter of finding the right source to reach
your soul.
Well Said.
That has been my experience as well. My falling back in love with vinyl has actually made me appreciate digital and in particular cd. I realised that one of the major shortcomings of cd was the equipment I was playing them on. When I upgraded my amp, turntable and speakers I also decided to upgrade my cd player which I wasn't going to bother with, but boy did my cd collection sound so much better! However I will always love vinyl more.
Which CD player did you buy?
I first got into vinyl back in the early 90's listening to my parent's old Sears record player/8 track player in the basement. My system went thru a number of iterations in the last 20 or so years, and about 5 years ago I talked to my Dad, who is a diehard vinyl fan and told him I wanted to buy a record player. This came about after a listening session in his living room playing the Piano Man album. I was just floored with how natural and amazing the piano sounded. Wound up with a Uturn Audio table with a Grado black cart. Vinyl is my favorite source by far, it just relaxes me and wants me crank it up. Digital sounds pretty good thru a DAC, but sometimes it fatigues me even thru my tube preamp which is a battery powered Bottlehead Quickie. There's nothing like listening to a good 70's rock album on vinyl, it just brings me joy.
I think some of the hostility to analog comes from the over the top rhetoric of the analog purists, who really can be tiresome. I like both (much prefer CD to streaming however). The quality of CD playback has increased in the past ten years to an astonishing degree, but not too many people have noticed since the vinyl resurgence has gotten most of the headlines. I noticed Herb Reichert was deeply impressed by a new CD player in Stereophile, and I was happy to read about it, because that has been my experience as well. For any young person, with limited means, who is interested in starting a personal library of music (a very fine thing to do), I have to say going the CD route is a good way to go. The bang for buck quotient is very high, especially as so many dumped their CDs to listen to Spotify instead. (BTW I totally agree the ability to buy different cartridges is so appealing. Just a ton of fun for not a ton of cash.)
I totally agree regarding streaming. There’s something none tangible about the medium, as opposed to CD or Analog . You can hold the music in your hand , see and collect albums.
Streaming has its place background music not for serious listening!
Exactly!
So great to hear someone excited about listening to music whether analog or digital. We need people to listen to music instead of watching a Nflix show! Digital is like you said, more convenient but I would add, the most telling test of the analog vs digital sonic comparison is done _only_ via double (or single) blind listening session. Knowing which format one is listening to IMO colours any test. Cheers!
I enjoy both however it costs a lot more to get your vinyl to sound as good or better than a CD.
No it doesn't 🤣🤣
Brian is your point of view merely subjective or can you back it? I'm thinking about getting back into vinyl for those special LPS. I stream but it's so irritating when you loose the signal and sit there waiting for the song to start up again.
@@InPursuitOfLiberty The whole hobby is subjective. The budget equipment has gotten very good though and you don’t need to spend a fortune. A decent budget TT, a good cartridge, a Schiit mani or iFI zen phono and a record cleaner would be all you need but still more than the equivalent digital front end in my opinion.
@@REX4340 easily
@@bryanherr1093 name a CD player that sounds better than the $249 Monoprice deck using analog recordings?
Without a doubt this is one of my favorite shows. Great speaker too btw😉. Firstly, I have such nostalgia for record albums. The tactile feel in my hands, the smell of the cover, the artwork. I also was so much a part of the change from records, to cassettes, to CDs and now streaming. It’s been my life. Helping people with their turn tables, rescuing tapes out of decks. I remember video discs and the first cd players and being amazed by it. But my heart ❤️ will always be analog in a digital world. I’m SO happy to have been and STILL be part of this industry. I’m all about EVERYONE being able to enjoy however they want. Let’s just listen together ☮️
But you never added what your favorites were, just staying very superficial.
@@keplermissionI do say that I like analog best. But currently, I’m streaming because all my LPs are in storage as is most of my rig.
Headphones convinced me that digital playback sounds by far superior in my experience. I connect emotionally to digital playback. I have no issues with musical involvement using digital sources. I’m not trapped in vinyl prison like so many audiophiles seem to be, digital sets you free and costs less to summit! The armada of audiophile grade flagship headphones on the market today don’t lie! I can’t say that about TH-cam.
Great presentation on the basics and details, as usual.
YES!
Speaking of cartridges and turntables and whatnot, we
really do need a look-in done on PARKER -- himself!
It's due, this to see just what he's been up-to these days.
I expect really BIG things coming from that 'bad boy' of
creative cartridge ideas and crack-engineering. (He and
ones like him, after all, ARE 'the future!")
Every PARKER interview is an EVENT -- one to be looked-
forward-to and, to experience and savor . . . 'till the next!
Best it would be as done while in his natural environment
of work and creativity but, I suppose, we'll take anything
that we might get, and be darned grateful for it. Indeedy!
Thanks a pile Steve for all you are and do for our passion.
Now, back to my 19th Century wax cylinders . . .
I’m about to revisit LPs after a 35 year hiatus.
Had a Technics SL-100 delivered a few days ago. Awaiting a Darlington MP-7 phono preamp and a RigB VM95ML cartridge ETA next week.
Hey SJ…Welcome back…the SL-100’s a beauty. A good ol’ SL-J2 is what brought me back, about 1992. Traded it in…a bunch of TT’s later, I’m right back to one. Got super lucky on eBay. Sent with the shipping locks and all…Popped on a new Grado gold, (P-mount what breeze)…and WOW…your going to have a blast! 🍻
Yeah I came back after some 30 years too and I’m loving vinyl. Ironically my cd player from the 90s is also dying.
“Welcome back my friend to the show that never happens we’re so glad you can attend step inside step inside…”
There’s no telling where I’ll end up. And that’s alright.😉
Think you’ll be very happy with that setup! Enjoy
Excellent video, Steve, I sold all my cds in 2009 and moved purely to my own hi res server, within a couple of years, I rarely listened to albums, usually mishmashed playlists, and lost a lot of passion for music. I’d been collecting records since 2000 but never owned a system until 2017. Since moving to vinyl primarily, it’s been such a joy, I wouldn’t trade it for anything. It’s so much more than just the music, so many different unique copies, coloured, etched, incredible jackets in book style, the variety is just wonderful and I haven’t been bored since
Dear Steve you are literally a living and walking treasure as well as a tremendous source of knowledge. I have watched some of your videos so many times (love the one about audiophile snobs..) Your companionship and topics of discussion have helped me so much to go through very rough times the past 3 years in my life and due to the time difference (live in the GCC region mainly due to business obligations) I always watch your latest video first and then go to sleep ..another thing, one of the things you have taught me through audio "lecturing" is to have a wider perspective and a much broader mind in everything life related.
I remember my 1st CD experience. I bought a Technics SL XP7, their fist portable player. I had yet to upgrade from my Panasonic Thrusters. The jump in fidelity was astounding to me. Digital music, from even a modest player took away one of the biggest obstacles to true HIFI, the signal source, and made it available to us mortals allowing us to focus on other system improvements.
I went from compact cassette to CD in about 1990 (as a tween-ager). To say the difference was noticeable would be just a wee bit of an understatement.
I'm that guy watching your video even though I've never understood why people like vinyl. I have to say, what you were saying about music turning into background noise in the digital age does really ring true for me. I love music and listen to tons of music, but it is often as background, and rarely am I solely listening to music. Now that's not to say I'm gonna start listening to vinyl, but I'm gonna start sitting down a bit and just listening to music, doing nothing else. And I certainly do see how the "work" required to play a record would naturally lead to the listener focusing on it more.
Great video, Steve. I still love vinyl very much, but I sold off my vinyl collection, about 2500 LPs and 100 45s, to downsize for a move to a smaller home in Mexico. I owned a Dual 622 direct drive turntable since 1981, that was practically flawless, especially with the Shure V-15 Type IV & Shure V-15 Type V cartridges. Very special sound indeed! I also own about 2600 CDs and a bunch of MiniDiscs, which I love as well; they sound great with more modern players and DACs. I still kept about 100 cassette tapes that still sound great, that I use with a Sony WMD6 Walkman Pro..............
What a great discussion. I mean, you really did a terrific job just addressing the "facts" and more importantly, your opinion on a timeless debate. I am so much in line with your view on this topic. Again, great job! Thanks!
For some people it’s about the kit and not the music, judging by the sort of stuff they listen to (in my experience).
But that's fine as well.
I find the more expensive their kit is, the more boring and conventional their taste is.
For most audiophiles, it’s about both. You don’t get into this hobby if you don’t love music.
@@mpi5850 - well said!
Thank you for this video. You have always struck me as a very focused person who clearly understands his concepts. It seems to me of the utmost importance to emphasize that the "ease" of playing digital tracks makes people not concentrate so much on the act of listening to the music that sounds, however, I can tell you that I spend about 10 hours a day working on my computer, I have configured a system that allows me to listen at the chair I use, and the music that I like accompanies me almost all the time. Sometimes, when what I am doing on the computer requires me to concentrate a lot, I turn off the music. But, on the other hand, very often, I stop working and listen. That experience is lovely.
I don't have vinyl simply because I've never owned one, and it's not the time to get into that anymore. But I respect those who revere these records. Regarding vinyl or digital, it's probably more critical how the engineers recorded the music you're listening. For example, it is sad to know that the engineers so poorly recorded Wilhelm Furtwängler's Beethoven symphonies that you cannot hear them on vinyl or digital.
Again, thank you for the video and your channel. I enjoy them very much; they are part of my daily life.
Really love your channel. I'm not a high end audiophile, but love reel to reel. Something about it... just so live sounding. I can record a CD on my TEAC or Tandberg decks, and upon playback, the analog feel returns. It's so rewarding to play music on real equipment... machinery... not digital on an iPhone or whatever. Intangibles. Best to you!
You just proved you like the distortion certain media brings sort of like a jazz drummer swirling his brush makes you listen to the trumpet more.
Steve, you just hit a high note, that I have felt for years with audio and photography; lazy! I’m a vinyl fan and have been for 55 years, and nothing compares with the process, with perhaps the exception of very expensive reel to reel, I do however miss my old Revox. Before retiring 10 years or so ago I was a pro photographer throughout the 70’s, 80’s, 90’s, and 00’s. Today I still shoot but for my own gratification. My point here is this; with digital so readily available on virtually everyone’s phone, including mine. Far too many people do not have a clue when I talk about depth of field, aperture, fstop’s etc, and I’m not surprised by this just a bit saddened to see what pleasure so many have missed out on, the art of photography, and the process of making a stunning B&W 16x20 image from a 4x5, or 6x6 negative. Of course I use digital imaging myself, but I use camera and interchangeable lenses, perhaps to give me the illusion that I’m going through the process.
Thanks for all you do,
Patrick
Steve, you are simply the best. A voice of common sense in all the noise. Thank you for all you do!
You hit the nail on the head Steve regarding the ease of streaming. It just doesn't mean nearly as much, and music does just become background at least for me. Playing vinyl especially and cds and owning physical media gets me engaged in what I'm listening too. That physicality makes it special!
Having recently put together a great system, with the full intention of getting back into vinyl, my real surprise has been how good cd's sound with a great DAC and speakers. The vinyl has been fun, but even after cleaning every album, there is a fry-cook working away in the background. I've also been shocked by the number of newly purchased LP's that came warped.
I’m definitely in the vinyl group. I love everything about it. The sound, dropping the needle, reading/looking at the cover, etc.
I disagree with you Steve that CD days are limited. I’m expecting as the generation that grew up with CDs will dive back in just like us 60s & 70s decades vinyl players.
I have access to thousands of CDs and I keep grabbing them expecting in 10 years I’ll make a bundle!
I like both. I would say I stream more than anything. As stated, it is just so convenient. However, I am not streaming because I think it has superior sound. Like many others, a record despite all it is failings, plus being a total pain to upkeep and use; is still my favorite way to listen. Digital has an ephemeral feel to me, it is so pristine that it seems otherworldly at times. Whereas, when I listen to a record it feels more organic. That there is actual flesh and bone to the performance. Therefore, to my ear, analog is more natural sounding. It is the source that resonates with me the most, allowing me to have a deeper connection to the music than digital is able to provide.
Totally. To me there is nothing natural about the sterility of digital.
@@user-ex9zm7bg3x It's too much like what came directly into the microphone.
I love analog, especially vinyl. But lately I’ve been going off in a whole new - old direction - fm tuners. It all started when I dug up a Scott 314 tuner from 1963 and it sounded soo good! Well I’ve picked up 5 other tuners since. A Lafayette LT-250, it has 14 tubes and is from 1965, and was built by Kenwood in Japan it’s a work of art - the obvious care it was made with makes me wanna cry, ($30 including hardly used tubes), then there’s the Magnum Dynalab which doesn’t have vibe of the others but is a real baseline to evaluate them with - its the precision of the digital readouts and the stellar reception that puts it on par with anything in in audio today. The pioneer from the early 70’s really is the pinnacle of stylish it commands it’s space in innumerable and ineffable ways including a warm sound that will seduce you and the Marantz 120B makes me feel like I am cheating on my wife and the other tuners too.
These were all acquired on the cheap and compared to the cost of anything new these day -unbelievable. Got’m all from the usual used online sources and all of them worked and looked great right out of the box. I think in a way I am lucky where I am living and the available reception and that I have the rooms for each of these to show off on their own. If you are at all inclined, go for it FM radio lives is still awesome. Viva-la FM and it’s still free
Yes, early digital recordings and players falsely promised "perfect sound forever." But the "forever" claim was right, as compared to vinyl, which invariably picks up noise and has deterioration of the grooves over the years. In contrast, I have never had a CD deteriorate--they all sound the same as the day I bought them. Actually, better..., because players have improved since the 1980s, as well as digital recording techniques. After ripping some vinyl records that weren't likely to appear on CD, I gave away a dozen boxes of vinyl and never looked back.
Don't miss the snap, crackle and pop at all. If anything takes me out of the moment it's hearing a large pop emanating from a record album on the turntable. Agree that the CD's day is done but it's easy enough to download digital music.
My thoughts are...there is a place for both. I love vinyl-- but I am also fond of the cd transport/dac/jitter 20 bit sound too. We in the Audio community have a personal relationship with our gear, the end result should be being in love with our music!
Steve - Coming from a person that despises most forms of social media, I must say that I find your programming to be absolutely enjoyable! Believe me, that’s an achievement. Today was especially great simply because you took a balanced approach to discussing a subject that has a tendency to show how polarized we can be as a community that shares a common love and appreciation for music. As a follow up to today’s subject, a similar exploration of your perspectives with regard to tube vs. solid state technology would be interesting. Keep up the good work my friend!
Good conversation. Just two additions...Playlist and time management are digital benefits as well
i have had TT's since i can remember and still love analog. remembering back to the first time i heard a CD i had just moved into a new house in southeast baltimore , rowhouse. after puttering around for a bit i all of a sudden heard some music coming from next door , it was loud and so crystal clear. i thought the guy must have been in a band and they were practicing. a day or so later i met the neighbor and asked him about the music , he said it was a CD player i was blown away , this was in the late 80's. i also have CD's and a CD player and enjoy them as well as enjoying streaming.
I like my LPs and I keep upgrading my analogue chain because of my collection, but is easier and cheaper to make a good sounding digital chain. Nowadays CDs are cheaper the vinyl, so that's what I mainly buy. I love music, not formats!
I've been buying cds for 1 dollar at flea markets and antique stores. I think they want 3 bucks for some worn out looking LP. Nope.
@@keithwiebe1787 $3 for an LP.... more like $30?
I love everything about vinyl. I love the work you put in to it. I love cleaning vinyl and experimenting with different cartridges, and speakers. I love tweaking the sound, rolling tubes and speaker placement. Sticking a cd in a tray and hitting play is boring.
It soley Tidal/Roon and Vinyl for me. Mainly digital because that is the only affordable way to keep discovering "new to me" music. But I would prefer vinyl....
Absolutely agree, Steve. I think analog vs. digital is like music played by humans with real instruments vs. music created on a computer. The latter is always in the perfect pitch, the tempo is dead steady and all that, but it’s the imperfections what makes it human and alive and highly expressive. I love real music played with real instruments, and I love vinyl.
New subscriber here, btw!
I like human imperfections too. But the reproduction method must be as perfect and accurate as possible to be able to hear those meaningful imperfections the right way.
@8:00 and for me is Vinyl way too hectic. For every track skipping you need to stand up where streaming is just one click and you instantly can put the ipad beside. Two of the most important reasons why i prefer streaming, most of the Albums have only a few good tracks on it (=hectic to stand up and move the needle) and you cant get Singles / EP's on Vinyl. I dont hate Vinyl, for me its just not my kind of Medium i want my music on, because i dont see any benefits.
- Just an small amount of Records are on Vinyl
- too much potencial failure sources with vinyl (dust, bad vinyl quality etc)
- you need way too much space for all the Vinyls
- and in the old days there wasnt anything better as most people talk. Just because its ,,Retro,, it isnt automatically better, same with Vintage Audio Gear or so... its not an sign of quality
and at the end, nearly every Analog Source was at some point an Digital Waveform ;-)... but hey, why always the black & white discussions, let ervyone enjoy their music how he wants, and when its an 128kbits MP3 with an 150€ Stereo System.. who cares, its all about enjoying Hifi & Music
In very old days I experienced the same - I appreacited the most only some vinyl tracks. Which were they? I remember it well - those which were amazingly sounding on my setup. Some records could sound dull. By analoque - some of my reel to reel recordings which were gained from studio turntables in radio station had amazing for me quality others had shortages because to lift it's performance I was servicing permamently that machine The result was mostly apparent and fixed on tape . So even I recorded only best my choice of music I listened later some more often and other skipped .
What I did not understand then was case of vinyl recordings - my turntable was low quality, wearing vinyls and only choosen tracks were realy exciting. Just listened to 25% of them
Now after 50 years I set up system which handles all with obvious perfection and it is my personal experience that I feel like I do not want to skip anything because all sounds too pleasant to skip.
LPs I have on my storage is not imprssive in number so I not needed big space but it matches my taste so much above all around that when I am in mood for performer I prefer not to skip anything. May be if I would buy LPs for collection reason I would have problem of choosing. and then I would prefer streaming Anyway - having own LPs I have it in my own care. having acccess in net it is not granted that tomorrow It will be still for me or at all available.
You are right - justy because something is retro is not enough, It should be also used with care and kept in perfect condition and it should be made up to high technical standards which were met in analog with ease. But not retro made in cheap plastic economy way for youth .
That's the other beauty of software. Instead of adding an entire Qobuz album, I can choose specific tracks. Roon then presents the album as if the other tracks never existed! This is wonderful for many albums that had only 2 or 3 good tracks.
Started listening to your channel right around when I experimented reintroducing vinyl to my audio source options. I delved back right into vinyl and thanks to your great reviews, I discovered so many other aspects of music listening. I’m a happy camper, thanks to you Steve 👍
I pretty much agree with your entire presentation, Steve - I'm not a baseball or football fan either. 😁 I also deeply prefer vinyl (analogue, that is), so I have to seek out and buy older (pre 1980) LPs to get what I want. I have some CDs and of course any LP of the last 40 years is likely to have been digitally remastered. To me playing a record is something one should take the time to enjoy, a "romantic" adventure, perhaps much like a Japanese tea "ceremony" (sadō/chadō (茶道, 'The Way of Tea') or chanoyu (茶の湯)), a cultural activity.) If I just want background music while running around the house - I'll play CDs. If I want to sit, relax, listen and enjoy, I'll play LPs.
Many years in the past I had a Dual 1215, 1218, Empire, Sony 2251 LA with SME arm and finally a Linn Sondek with a Vestigal Arm playing in my Klipschorn plywood cabinets (all I could afford in college ). I built several Dynaco kits including two Dynaco 400s but I loved the turntables the most. It was always rewarding to clean the records with the Discwasher before and after playing the album. So engaging like a ritual. That involvement was never there with CDs
I plan to build a system around a pair of
Polk R700s which are on order. Budgeting about $1000 for turntable and cartridge. Don’t know what yet but can’t wait. Love vinyl and the engaging nature of using it. Amplifier who knows
So many good choices.
Thanks for these great insights, Steve, your channel is truly inspiring - especially as I am not into any particular 'camp' or 'tribe' - it's all about the music! Best, Carlo
Hi Steve, I enjoyed your talk on analog. It seems to me that most naysayers of analog are probably younger than you and me and didn’t experience it during their youth. This is when we associated the music with growing up and discovering the world including the emotions of more adult interpersonal relationships including sex. And that includes the rituals of playing vinyl along with the unique sound of records. We know in our heads that digital measures better but our emotions prefer the vinyl because we can recall those emotions much like we remember our mother or grandmother when we smell certain things cooking in the kitchen.
I enjoy listening to both as well. I also think the laziness your mention with digital actually started with the cassette era mix tapes we made for parties or road trips.
Keep on truckin with your channel.
Early digital was pretty primitive and was no comparison in sound to a decent turntable.
That has truly changed…I love my digital set-up (after a 3-year, expensive journey 😁), and am not willing to emotionally re-engage into vinyl with the cost (I am OCD 🤓), the insanity of turntables, cartridges, head amps, collecting expensive records, etc…etc…etc… but I sooooooo get it! I admire analog enthusiasts and their dedication and pursuit of perfection. It’s all GOOD! (Secretly I have FOMO!).
WHAT A GREAT TIME TO BE AN AUDIOPHILE! 👍🏼😀👍🏼
Another enjoyable and provocative topic from Steve. As a long time recording, mixing and mastering engineer specializing in jazz, my perspective on this topic is a bit different than most of the listeners here. The process of creating a recording from acoustic instrument and vocal sources so fundamentally "distorts" reality by compressing the actual dynamic range of the performance to work in a home listening environment, that it's more a matter of which flavor of distortion one prefers. Additionally vinyl requires this compression to make playback with a needle physically possible. A recording that "sounds" analog for instance is more a reflection of the production team's personal taste than anything else. Likewise an end listener chooses the type of listening system that he or she prefers. The beauty of art is that there are no right answers no matter how much some try to to apply scientific principles to it.
As an audio engineer, vinyl is like putting catsup in a milk shake. It doesn't resemble the sound going into the microphones in anyway. There is three turntables in my house and every time I play vinyl all I hear is multiple distortions I no longer have to deal with anymore.
You hit the nail on the head regarding how people listen today. People have lost the ability to actively or critically listen. I don’t know that I could say that it has solely been brought about by no longer listening to records, but you are definitely correct, in saying that people have become lazy with their listening habits due to the improvements in convenience. I have been enjoying my own personal reawakening of my enjoyment of final recordings from having recently moved my record collection out of storage and boxes to shelves where are can access them again. When I did this, I played a few records and the first thought was “why did I ever think that CDs were superior in every way?“
VINYL records, that is. Autocorrect. Sheesh.
when i play a record, i sit on the sofa as if i were attending a concert. the album cover is my "program". the whole point of recorded music is to create a facsimile of a performance.
It would be difficult to imagine you were at a concert when listening to recordings which are mostly made in studios and are not live recorded performances. PS. I don't think you will find any sofas to sit on at concerts, unless you bring your own and they let you take it in.
I do the same. Both with records and digital
That is what many of us boomers want. But the generations after us boomers haven't a clue what a live performance sounds like, and those that do have an experience that is nothing but incredibly loud PA noise, audiences which make the concert about themselves, and light and stage shows that are nothing about music. Who wants to recreate that? These subsequent generations know something about music through their cell phones and Spotify. They love the quiet of digital.
@@helgar791 Spoken like a true boomer!
Definitely that what makes the experience of record playing, it’s time to relax and enjoy the music how the artist intended 👍🏻
Recently got back into vinyl, but still LOVE my Cd's, and Cd's are not going away anytime soon.
I like both, but there are some instances that I feel vinyl is better and some cases digital is better. At it's worse digital to me can be fatiguing and flat, where vinyl can be more spacious and pleasing to the ear. But with a good digital recording it can go above and beyond. I guess it also depends on the dac. But hey, I'm into the best of both worlds.
You have hit the nail on the head here Bob. I have both a Rega turntable (P8) and a Rega CD player. Some albums sound shocking on CD but great on vinyl and vice versa. I know why sometimes a vinyl record sounds poor but in this day an age I cannot understand why some of the CDs for recent releases sound as bad as they do. Looks like some labels have already given up on the format. The problem is you end up buying both formats if the one you get first sounds bad.
Thank you, Bob. I appreciate your comment. I favor vinyl, but there are some cd's that just sound amazing. Additionally, it's nice to see people express their views without all the anger and hatred. Listen to whatever you enjoy. I think streaming sounds empty, but I don't mind that people like it. I have over 1000 cd's. I love putting them on and enjoying. I was listening to Phish the other night. Sounded fantastic through my Magnepans. Sometimes I play a record that was not recorded as well and I'm not as involved. But there is quite often a realness to the sound on vinyl that is quite natural and rarely fatiguing.
This was very interesting for me Steve. I am in my 70s now and have owned hi-fi equipment for 50 years. I sold my vinyl collection with the advent of CD but have now been buying it back for many years. Just a couple of points which you didn't raise. My preference over the years depended on how much I could afford to spend. In 1983 when I bought the first Philip CD player it would not of been better than the Pink Triangle but was cheaper. I would suspect that lower budget people will still do better with CD. With the vinyl system I now have, I tend to play vinyl much more often than CD or streaming. You made a good point about CD being rather "two-dimensional". (And that's not a comment about the depth of the recording.) My experience now is that the emotion and musicianship I hear in the artists on vinyl is a step above CD. They simply sound like better musicians.
I remember hearing some musicians discuss analog on the radio, and one said that the preference for vinyl was due to the infinitesimal delay in the signal, a type of harmonic distortion which listeners hear as warmth. I don't know if that's true, but he sounded like he knew what he was talking about.
I've read an article about how there's a difference between 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion between analog and digital because of the signal processing and one sounds more pleasing to the human ear than the other.
Yes you can do that with the sound fields on some receivers. With vinyl there's also bleed over between the channels and it sort of simulates a surround type atmosphere.
@@keplermission Holy moly I'm going to need a special kind of translator to understand most of what you've said here. I'm 66 years of age and I know that my hearing isn't what it used to be so I would venture to guess that there are a lot of people just like me that if they were to take a blind test with a good digitally reproduced piece of music and a good analog reproduced piece side by side they would be hard pressed to be able to tell the difference between the two. Even though I still like the feeling of holding an album from a vinyl record in my hands as I listen to that album. I think it might have something to do with the tactile sense we have as well as having a nicely sized piece of art work and liner notes to look at. Most digital music usually comes with just a small disc or even less so it at least feels like I'm really getting something extra for the money I spend. It sure is hard to deny that digital is usually much more convenient as well as so much more of a mobile format.
Vinly when I really want to enjoy some music from my vinyl collection. Streaming when I want to check out new music. Sometimes play files from my own digital archive, now that I got a couple of nice Chord dacs that start to sound quite nice as well. I have just invested a bit in new vinyl playback, slightly used Dr Feickert woodpecker TT, with Ortofon arm. Allnic Rose, Ortofon Cadenza red, Kiseki PurpleHeart and Hana ML pickup's to choose from.
As an old guy with gray in my hair and beard, I've owned hundreds of LP Records from back in the 60's and 70's. Even before CD's, I hated the inconvenience of LP's. The scratches & skips, getting up to turn it over to side two, not to mention the album degradation that seemed inevitable, no matter how careful you were with them. When I heard my first CD, I was hooked on digital. I went whole-hearted into digital and never looked back. I can remember in the 90's, brand new albums could be bought at close-out prices and I just knew LP records were going to die the death I felt they deserved. But there were still the rappers out there who liked to do the DJ thing with albums, the remixes etc. But then artists started releasing albums again. I remember hearing that Pearl Jam released one of their albums on vinyl a few days before they released it on CD and I was completely confused.
I'll be honest, I still don't get the attraction people have with vinyl, but hey, you do you, and I'll do me. How can scratches & pops sound more real?
I couldn't agree with you more. I've been totally cd from 1985. As far as I'm concerned it's the greatest leap forward in sound since the cylinder roll, or the player piano.
Yup!
Pops and clicks add the "warmth" lol.
Plus, there's the amazing things they can do with old analog recordings, like make them almost noise free. Try that with a vinyl lp! I got so sick of LPs, and there attendant noise, that when I heard CDs I IMMEDIATELY dumped LPs primitive "technology" and jumped into CDs feet 1st, and never looked back.
I broadly agree, especially about inconvenience and degradation, although I can see the appeal of bigger artwork on LPs (for many collectors, it seems a major part of the appeal). The only downside of CDs is that some of them are badly mastered and overcooked, killing the dynamics.
Interesting conversation and one I had with myself a long time ago. The first Apple iPod changed my relationship with music. It was so easy to go from headphones to laptop to the car to home and it became consumable. I went from loving it to losing appetite. I wondered how it was possible for a human being to lose interest in music. I had a similar relationship to photography. I used to take such care with film and that was kind of lost with digital. So I ditched it and went all in on analogue. No dac or streamer at home. I invested time in the front end, turntable, phono stage and amp. I think the decision to purchase a particular album, sourcing the right pressing, adding it to my collection and then taking care of it provides a connection in a way that digital didn’t. This makes me happy and don’t think I’ll go back.
Cool man. I had a very similar experience to yours.
Love them both! Streaming Sade through my Bluesound/Denafrips combo right now. And later I'm going to spin my new Analog Productions vinyl release of Mile Davis "Someday My Prince WIll Come" on my Technics 1500c. It's ALL good!
Bluesound/Denafrips here too. Via Pontus II this is the first digital sound I've heard that sounds as enticing as analogue to me.
I love Someday My Prince Will Come : )
🔥
You are absolutely right Steve. It is just a question of personal taste and digital is for convenience. I' ve been a music lover and stereo enthusiast since my teens (circa 1973). Until now, nothing beats the sound of the reel to reel tape. This is my personal taste.
I agree that vinyl does sound great, but the clicks, pops and surface noise simply drove me nuts. I have found that I can digitally record at 24/96 a good sounding LP, remove the clicks and pops with digital signal processing, and come out with a copy that sounds nearly identical to the LP without the garbage (and it doesn't get worse with every play). I have concluded that the analog processing used to make an LP changes the sound in a pleasing manner to most people.
Steve
I totally agree with your presentation. When my turntable needed a new cartridge and I could not use it I relied on CDS. That only increased my admiration for vinyl
Thanks Steve 😊
I can relate to feeling a more visceral and involving connection to the music when playing vinyl LP's vs. CDs or streaming. However, LP surface noise can be quite intrusive for classical recordings with lengthly slow/quiet movements, whereas jazz from the 50's and 60's really comes into its own played by from my record deck vs. ultra-clean playback from one of my digital sources. If I had to live with just analog or just digital I would have to choose digital because of the limited selection of music that can actually be purchased as vinyl today.
Great video. Another thing: with streaming it’s very easy to jump from “album” to “album”. But when I’m listening to vinyl I get to experience the artist’s entire creation.
this right here, absolutely. album track lists are *tailored* to make for a full experience, or at least they were (not being a grumpy old man, i just don't dig into newer music as much - so maybe i am being a grumpy old man). but today's formats of consumption make it easy to pick and choose tracks, and we miss out on that aspect of the experience. note i said "we" - i'm as guilty of hitting go on a playlist as anyone. but when i drop the needle on an lp, i listen to the whole album. it's just more inherent to the format.
you mean you are forced to listen to the filler tracks and suffer.
@@leonciobarrera7965 sure, that’s another way to look at it.
That's on you buster! Don't blame the compact disc on what you do with your time, please. Next you'll tell us you've seen God during your epiphany.
Great video, Steve! (Always) As one who records music with a variety of sources (drums, voices, guitars) although in the digital realm, we are always trying to make it sound as analog as possible. Tube preamps, tube mics, and of course plug-ins that emulate “tape and analog” are used constantly. It strikes me as funny that the folks who snub it are the same folks striving to hear it in their “digital” only world.
I enjoy y music in all formats. However, the CD is what I buy first. Thanks again!
Why though? Why not buy MQA online and build a digital library on a hard drive? CD is the lowest acceptable quality these days. If you really wanted a CD you could make it yourself using the MQA files.
@@SamBorgman 1-I prefer to own my music. 2-I do not currently use a streaming service. 3-When I did pay for streaming, I used Qobuz (MQA is a joke in my opinion), 4-Almost always, the CD sounds better than streaming. How is that?
@@Big-J-8579 I'm an LP guy but I agree with point 4.....and SACD's sound better again.
@@Big-J-8579 Why MQA is a joke? Aren't they the studio master? Never bought them but CDs are burned using studio masters, which is supposed to be the same as the MQA files. I know CD's are better than lossless, streamed or your own CD rips.
@@SamBorgman I will not go into the MQA controversy but you can search it on the internet. I am in the "its a money grab scam camp." Some people prefer MQA to Hi-Res downloads me I can't tell the difference, so why pay for MQA. I don't.
Steve, been a listener for years, love your work.
I note that you have stated in this chapter, as well as others, that "Air was moving".
Most Audiophiles get this wrong, air does not move when speakers play. What one feels when standing in front of a large speaker is "acoustic energy". Jiggling molecules transmit energy. Speakers are not fans... Though I am, in your case.
If the studios really cared for sound quality, then CD would sound fantastic.
Yes I agree. Back in the pure analogue days they actually did and they actually had a clue on how to master audio reproduction.
@@stevemurrell6167 It's the medium that limited "brickwalling" for vinyl. You can't compress an analog recording the same way as digital because the stylus of most record cartridges wouldn't be able to track those grooves. And a highly compressed and loud analog recording takes up way more surface space which CDs don't have to contend with.
The change in musical genres also affected the care that was taken to create a high fidelity recording. Recording techs that worked for Frank Sinatra would have been notified having to work with Metallica.
I prefer analogue but I fully agree. If done properly, CD sounds amazing. It's a pity that more care is not taken in the production of so many CD's. (Same as many analogue recordings, so many factors involved, care is often not taken) If the ultimate skill and care were always used, most people wouldn't be able to tell what format it was.
I went to a friend's place yesterday and swapped some 45s for 33s. Sat down with a glass of wine gazing through the album covers. I handed over a 45 that I've had since 1982 knowing that it will be played by my DJ friend. All good fun.
I prefer digital, but nothing against vinyl and like hearing about it. And even though it is technically inferior, in practice it's often given more care and individual vinyl RECORDINGS do sound better.
Couldn't agree with you more. I don't mind CDs and digital files, but when you go through the ritual of getting an album ready, it puts you in the frame of mind to really sit down and listen to the work of the musicians. With digital it's very easy to click on it and go back to what you were doing. That's fine sometimes but it's also nice to just sit on the couch, close your eyes, and pretend you're getting a private concert.
Interesting video Steve. I like both formats but I love my vinyl more . Have recently got my 35 year old daughter hooked on vinyl.
Steve I tend to agree with you about analog vs digital. I had a similar experience back in the 80's when I was a salesperson at an audio store in Connecticut. In fact I still have a Sheffield Labs T-shirt that says "Stop Digital Madness". I have owned a number of turntables and enjoyed some amazing cartridges while listening to all types of music. However, for the past 20+ years I have been enjoying the convenience of digital playback. The improvement in digital playback systems and recordings especially DSD to me is amazing. There are many times while listening to my system that I forget about the components and just become totally consumed by the music . I noticed this more with live recordings and some very well recorded studio recordings. Back when I had turntables I never liked most live records so I was surprised to find that I enjoy them better now. I am not anti analog but I do love being able to listen to what I want at the by looking at my smart phone and touching the album picture or going to a playlist.
One more comment: as a former New Yorker I can't understand how you are not interested in baseball! Just go to Yankee stadium once and tell me you didn't enjoy the experience.
Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing your time with the audiophile community.
I truly enjoy your videos, Steve. I love vinyl records and turntables. They offer a sound and feeling that digital music and compressed audio files can’t match.
Steve, You bring up the Age Old Topic of Analogue Vs. Digital. At 1.30 you mention your first exposure to CDs in 1983. I'm 71 YO, a Music afficionado, not an Audiophiliac, and waited until circa 1987 to compare my first CD : Born in the USA !!. At that time, I just purchased my first true high end Stereo system which I still have to this day: NAD 1300 Preamp, NAD 2600 Amp, Dual CS5000 TT with Shure Cartridge, a Onkyo 6 Disc CD player and a pair of KEF 104/2 Tower speakers No EQs, No SWs]. After setting the system up, I played the vinyl LP against the CD version. The CD was Tinny and had No Warmth. In fact, I declared that CDs would not last - like the Laser Video Discs. However, I continued to obtain CDs, primarily for the convenience. Then a few years later. I bought the Abraxis Album - a Remastered CD - by Santana. That CD Blew me Away by the Sound.! I continue to play both formats - as the Mood strikes me - and like many others added Music Streaming in HiFi Plus. On occassion, I will "experiment" - playing my Re-issued copy of Tommy by The Who LP, my original LP (with its slight scratches and pops), The CD version, and the Streamed version. Each has its own "Flavor". I have to admit though, the enhancements in HiFi + (Tidal) sound Magnificent with great clarity. The LPs still maintain that slight difference in Warmth. At least to my ear. As you said, Streaming or Multi Disc CD players sdd a tremendous convenience Benefit to the Music Playing Formula. THX for your Video.
I bought my first CD in 83 and it's benefit was convenience but my Reel to Reel still sounded better
There’s nothing like the sound of tape!
Definitely a Senior here and I have to say I’m almost totally listening to cd’s these days. While I have a large vinyl collection and a pretty nice “vintage” analog setup, they’ve fallen into disuse for the reasons you detailed. I hope cd’s don’t go away but you’re right it sure looks like their days are numbered. Streaming holds little interest…beyond my interest in some of the technical improvements…and I’ve said this before, it’s akin to listening to stereo fm radio…just my $.02
Vinyl buyers are more likely to be actually listening?...ha ha...when they even have a turntable. The Luminate 2022 year-end report of music sales found that 50% of people who are buying vinyl don't even have a turntable. Vinyl is just a souvenir to them which they never listen to. Pathetic.
You are spot on with this Steve, when I play my LPs it's because I wanna sit down and listen and I love the whole ritual and connection that comes with that ritual, when I stream it is convenient and easy and it does become background music a lot of the time, LPs are here because god loves us
Hahahaha - love that part about LPs being here because god loves us…. Quite a cool thought.
I would note, though, when i sit down and play my CD for listening session, i love the whole ritual of selecting the CD, setting the room up - - and the listening couch, pressing play… and sitting back to enjoy. I’m not sure how that differs much from what your experience is with vinyl.
Più passa il tempo e più apprezzo il tuo stile, la tua competenza, le tua sincera passione per la musica conla giusta ironia, un Mix perfetto! Bravo Stevie, We R Audiophiliac 🎸
Really nice show and very interesting arguments. I love both, digital and analogue, but I appreciate this delightful debate. Very well done!
Sometimes you just have to laugh, people spending small fortunes trying to get their streams to sound like vinyl & CDs, spend that money on physical media and you will always own it 🙂
I definitely lean toward vinyl, I find it easier to get immersed in the music and, fortunately, I have a setup that allows vinyl to sound good. I also listen to CDs and stream with great pleasure at times. I really like streaming as a way of checking out new artists and albums I want to hear. In general, I’m very album-oriented, I don’t listen to playlists and I don’t skip songs. I want to hear what the artist has to offer. In each setting, I appreciate a well-recorded album that I can sit down and listen to intently.
I just can’t handle the crackles and pops. It really affects my listening pleasure
Well cared for, clean records don’t have crackles and pops
@@mikevalentinas6766 BS, many faulty pressings gives crackles and pops even when never played before. That’s my problem with vinyl, first you have to be lucky with the pressing you got. Then you have to pray nobody in your household will damage it and even then it will deteriorate over time. With the premium prices of vinyl today it’s not worth the investment to me.
Steve you are talking about the quality of digital from it's early days in the early 80's. I am sure you know that it has improved big time since then. Like you I was also an early digital adapter and was disappointed too. But now the quality of High End DAC plus Hi-Res files can sound as good or even better than High End vinyl rig. People love to romanticized their vinyl experienced and its all part of nostalgia that help the vinyl comeback. The best thing is we have more choices now or we can have it all if we want to.
The biggest challenge with digital is finding properly recorded and mastered material. The digital file downloads and CDs are usually compressed and don’t sound as good as the vinyl release of the same recording. Some of my best digital downloads are the ones from Neil Young’s now defunct online PONO store.
The engineers choose to issue music with compression regardless of what media it is on. You have to compress and limit range for vinyl; you do not have to compress and limit for cd but an engineer still may do so or do it by a greater amount.
I like both formats but I would select Digital over Analog. Probably because that is what I grew up with.
Now that said, when I’m home and actively listening, I play more LPs than anything. There is just something about the ritual that I like. It prepares you for the listening experience. I can’t seem to get that with CD, let alone streaming. Keep rocking!
The only things for me is the absolute sound... and i get it with digital. Period!
Great conversation. I’m one of those that grew up on analogue but switched to digital in 1987. With that said, while I still had my records i picked up a B and O used turntable and while it was working I found that analog could indeed be better than digital. It broke and I started moving around for work so I landed on digital for the convenience. Now with a family it’s all digital but I’ve been starting to get back in to analog little by little. The biggest challenge with analog is the cost of getting to a level I am satisfied with. It’s a slow process at the moment.
I still love vinyl, but high end turntable (tonearm, cartridge, phono amp) prices are ridiculous. And I love my old scratch filled albums.
These kind of videos where he gives a lecture are the best...love getting a lecture from a salesman. Hey genius...if you look at the comments on your CD player videos you'll probably see people with negative comments about CDs...and if you look at the comments on your (few) streamer videos, you'll probably see negative comments about streaming...welcome to the internet! People have opinions on the internet, just like in real life! Crazy, huh?
Analog is real. Early Elvis and the early Beatles recorded live to tape. Now that's recording.
I love Elvis and The Beatles especially recorded from radio or TV. It sounds like you are really there, listening the first time.
I thought I preferred my turntable, until I moved up to a better DAC that made digital recordings sound equally good overall. When the sound is as good overall, I prefer digital because it's so much easier and more straightforward to deal with (putting it on isn't the main problem, but cleaning, storing, etc.). So, I'm in the long process of digitizing my favorite records. I think that both digital and analog CAN sound wonderful, but when high-quality digital doesn't sound as good as analog, I bet it comes down to the album's mastering rather than the digital gear.
the audiolab cd player is the best component in this system.