@@jimhshull In Who Framed Roger Rabbit that's a line said when they're getting rid of the Red Car line and eliminating ToonTown th-cam.com/video/eb09vRjmRTs/w-d-xo.html
The Kinetics and the feel and look helps make it a theme park. It becomes more bare and hollow without it. And it's one step closer to an amusement park than a theme park.
Thank you for posting this, Jim. I know that others who worked on DCA 2.0 and Buena Vista Street in particular would really like to see the Red Car live on. And so would I.
It would be neat if Disney moved the Red Car Trolley into one of the unused buildings in the Hollywood Backlot and put it on display, and surrounded it with an exhibit about the real Red Car Trolleys in Los Angeles and a retail shop with Red Car Trolley merchandise -- mugs, T-shirts, vintage style posters, die-cast models, even plush. All the "proceeds" of the merchandise could go to moving the Trolley Barn behind Soarin'. It would give the fan community a way to show their support. And by the way, they could design the Trolley Barn as an actual vintage trolley barn vibe-wise and have a mezzanine bar around it...The Trolley Barn Bar. Could even be accessible off the esplanade. I think that would be very popular. That blending of reality and function and theme park (something that made Knott's Berry Farm magical decades ago) is an unexploited area in recent times.
Love this idea, and it would sell merch, and you could have Oswald attached to it all. Put it in the old hollywood and dine restaraunt area that gets seldom used for promoting different things like Tron legacy. The red car trolley is an important part of true southern CA history. In Rancho Cucamonga you can even walk or bike paved parts of the old route there.
That sort of merchandise would sell. One of a kind merchandise was once a feature of a Disneyland visit but the turn was made to sell products available on line or at your local Target. Thanks for watching.
It’s genuinely disappointing to hear that Disney wants to close down the red trolley next year, but I do hope we can find a way for it to stay at DCA. Thanks for sharing this video.
Thank you Jim, such a great reminder of the value of vehicles and kinetics in a Disney park. It's truly one of the ways Disney Parks stand out. Hopefully they will save it, and maybe even take it all the way to Paradise Gardens like how the real old trolleys took people to the pier amusement parks. How sublime that would be! DCA is an unusual park with its asymmetric layout, with the long arc walkway and various lands sprouting off it, radially. It feels a bit accidental (compared to the "masterplanned" hub and spoke layout of Disneyland). But I think there's potential to take that "spine" and "make more of a deal out it" in essence, as a signature layout/design feature the park can "own" and be proud of -- and I think a signature mode of transit down this spine would go a long way.
DCA is different as when it opened the park had a figure eight organization. That has changed but the original plan continues to show itself. Thanks for watching.
There is also the more ambitious option of sending the Red Cars down the parade corridor to Pixar Pier, giving DCA a legitimate transportation ride similar to the Disneyland Railroad. It would fit the sea side pier theme perfectly given that's how most sea side amusement parks started, being the end of the line of a trolley or train. Really growing to hate Avengers Campus. First Tower of Terror, Its Tough to Be a Bug, now the Red Cars. Its the land that keeps on taking.
100% agree. The idea of ending by Pixar Pier corridor is best. Or have it go up there, loop around, then go into Hollywood before looping back around to the park entrance. You can definitely increase the capacity with 3 stations.
So sad to lose the Red Car, but it's also a bummer that the Blue Sky Cellar is no longer being used. I really enjoyed seeing the future plans for the park. Thanks for another great video! Enjoy hearing your perspective on all this.
The Blue Sky Cellar is now a DVC sales office. Bad timing since the building would be perfect to promote the DCA expansion sharing details of Avatar, Coco and Avengers Campus. Thanks for watching.
I have never had a chance to visit DCA, but the Pacific Electric is part of Walt Disney’s California and to many others. I don’t understand why it is being removed. Your idea of a loop with two cars sounds like a far better plan. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
I rode the Red Car for the very first time in February of this year. It was very enjoyable. It's sad to hear that they're removing it. Nothing lasts forever I guess.
Thanks for making these videos! I'm loving the amazing history and insight. I have to believe that this is a temporary closure due to construction with a likely rerouting and I certainly hope so. I just can't imagine Buena Vista Street without it. And they just did a refurbishment on it a few years ago. Thanks for the great channel. I've subscribed and I'll keep watching.
It seems current Disney design does not appreciate how important "charm" is to the experience at the parks. To just sit on a bench by the Rivers of America for a few minutes and enjoy how pretty it is, to wait outside a shop while family is inside browsing and watch a carriage or streetcar go by, seems lost on them. Its those moments, that aren't rides or shows, that really make the Disney parks special and set them apart from all others. I hope they change course and preserve the magic.
Maybe they are just doing what they want to do. It’s nobody’s decision but they own. You will still go no matter how mad you get. Stop being a snowflake
@@Atyomommahouse-p2m "Disney is above all criticism and shouldn't value their customers or offerings" is a wild take but thanks anyways, I'm sure that'll improve things
@@Atyomommahouse-p2mAh, yes. "Who cares what we do, they'll still come anyway." That attitude worked out *great* for DCA 1.0. That's why, just a few years later, they had to shell out for a massive renovation that included the addition of the Red Car Trolley. Because people *didn't* come anyway.
@@brentparker7359 Totally agree. It's true that the parks fans on the forums are the extremes of both criticism and unwavering support -- it's exaggerated both ways. But to entirely ignore the concerns and criticisms is folly. Because even if it's exaggerated, there's some "truth" in it. A parks fan may say (scream) something is "the worst thing they've ever done!!!" whereas the casual customer's take may just be "meh." But that "meh" when multiplied by 17 million annual visitors means a lot of lost money. So they have to listen to rants of the park fans, tease out the "true criticism" or "true issue" and take it into consideration.
You are such a great story teller. I love Disneyland and DCA, this is part of history. If someone related to the parks read this...please do not remove it, follow Jim advice! i want my daughter to ride it once we can get to take her to the park. We live in Mexico, and I have visited Disneyland several times and even if it s not near us, because we live in the southern part of Mexico, near Guatemala, I want my child to enjoy soon some pixie dust soon and any time. Please continue posting these wonderful videos and greetings from México.
I would like to see it expanded! (not removed) It's essential to the theme of the California Center and should be expanded to make it a real transportation system. I've always thought that the area lacked transportation and here it is already themed for the park. Toon town is less with out it's street car and California center will be less without its street car, Too bad Disney management doesn't listen to its best employees. This sounds like an Eisner era cut-back to me. Will they ever learn?
DCA 2.0 was perfect, it was honestly better than Disneyland and it was busier. Regarding the reroute I could see the trolley barn behind soarin use the extended walkway behind the airplane photo op as it’s wide enough. My only gripe with that is the cluster you’d bring with the bathrooms and the gift shop when the trolley goes by. Sometimes I wish I had the money for my own park then we’d be able to save the trolley.
I've never been to Disneyland or DCA but it almost seems as though Disney doesn't want to spend the money to improve things or keep historic attractions.
Any options will also need to consider the overhead wires. Even though they are not powered, there is a lot of infrastructure involed with installing them. And it limits the height of parade floats.
Hey Jim, Why couldn't you continue using the existing track toward Hollywood, past the passing siding and put a station right after the right turn but before the Guardians? That would preserve most of the ride and give you the same ability to run 2 cars. It does seem like the space near Soarin' is about the only place available for a barn.
I worked there when they built the Red Car Trolly track. The trolleys were battery operated. They were stored in a big garage behind Tower of Terror attraction. Sad they are getting rid of it. Chip and Dale used to ride the trolley to Tower of Terror in the morning.
If there is no way to save the trolley, I hope they bring in something like the horseless carriage, they have at Disneyland. They could have like two or three of those little vehicles taking people back-and-forth from the front of the park to Hollywood backlot
Solution 1: Turn left at Hyperion Theater and use the empty cafeteria as the barn. Solution 2: Go towards Paradise Pier as Phase 1. If the park expansion happens, build a bridge to take it to the former Simba Parking Lot. Consider adding a second car to expand capacity.
I’m tired of people saying that the California theme of the park deserved to go because it was tacky, even though the 2012 overhaul actually gave the park quality California aspects, and now we’re stuck with this hot mess of IPs that remove everything good about the park, I just want to see them change the parks name to Cinematic Adventure so that I can still call it by DCA and that I’ve lost hope in the park
Well, I have an idea, they should bring back the trolley, change the rest of the Hollywood back lot, except for Monsters Inc into a unique version of the city of Zootopia from Shanghai Disneyland. Think about it, Zootopia is based on Los Angeles and putting an area based on Los Angeles in a park that has California in the title makes sense.
I’m not sure if you meant to be sarcastic, but if you are I’m referring to the fact that Disney will make a land for only one film franchise which limits what they can put. when Disneyland was first conceived, places like fancy land did not rely on one story, but rather made the area so that stories past or present can be used. IP lands tend to not stand the test of time pretty quick, unless used in a board scale, they break the kinetic energy in the park which is why new lands that are relatively new and out of place such as Star Wars Galaxy’s Edge are becoming irrelevant.
Taking the Red Car out of Southern California was a major mistake, though I am sure G.M. and Kelly Tires disagree. Please Disney, do not make the same mistake California did and still regrets.
@@WindowtotheMagic I don’t expect him to respond to me, but he DOES read these comments. Just giving him an idea, there’s a lot of potential with such a concept.
I’m nervous that the barn isn’t the only reason we might lose the trolley. IF fan sites are to be believed, Hollywood is where the new Avatar area is going, if true I can understand why you wouldn’t have the Red Car go through. But if that is one of the factors, what happens to the parade route for DCA? I love a good Disney parade and imho it would be a mistake to get rid of the Red Car and parades in the name of Avatar
I have to wonder, if they discontinue the trolley, how long will the unused track remain for everyone to trip over? That would take some money allocated to remove it, so would it be better to keep the trolley or invest in removing the track?
In 2022 they spend a lot of money to build the inductive charging station at the stop on Buena Vista Street. Discontinuing the trolley now seems like that would be a waste of investment.
After watching this, I am curious how the decisioning process works. Can you comment on how the evaluation criteria are made and what are the key metrics for such a decision? Thanks, for your peaceful, thoughtful presentations, Jim.
After working in the park for a number of years and understanding part of the business side here is my theory: The attractions (experiences that require operations castmembers to staff) are budgeted based on theoretical money generated. You have your operating costs and staffing paid out by the numbers of guests that partake of the attraction. Let's say each guest provides a virtual dollar when they ride, and the cost of virtual dollars to pay staff and operations exceeds that amount generated; then the attraction is on the chopping block. While the entertainment division originally off set some of this cost at the opening of the Trolley, I don't think they still use it for character experiences. Of course, it's not always about capacity vs value. But if the Trolley maintenance barn is in the way of building a higher capacity attraction that will actually bring guests purposely to ride the big E ticket, then it makes sense on paper to cut the Trolley
@@clinttaylor8730 Unfortunately, many of the attributes that have made Disney parks special do not have a "theoretical money generated." That's the "magic" of the Disney parks. People viscerally feel the "plussing," the obsession with detail, the plenitude of the offering. At the genetic-creative level of the company (and the man, Walt Disney), so much of what the Disney company built its brand on was doing things in ways and at levels of thoughtfulness and attention that it would be difficult to rationalize. When Disney made animated movies with animals, they'd bring animals into the studio for the animators to sketch. Were they doing that over at the other animation studios? Multiple that times 100 years. Disney needs to make money, for sure. The parks need to be profitable. But removing things that add vibe and charm and cannot be directly tied to revenue is folly. It would be wiser for them to have an introspective look at why their recent attractions are so expensive. Somewhere in the $200 to $500 million they are spending on recent e-ticket attractions, it's hard not to think there is some "process bloat" in there -- some extra bureaucracy, indecision, inefficiency. That happens when you are spending that kind of money. One wonders if some systemic and cultural changes in the organization -- a scrappier approach -- could save tens of millions of dollars and result in just as good -- or perhaps better -- entertainment (in the same way that $200 million AAA video games are failing nowadays whereas indy games are often better and more successful).
There are many considerations submitted by key stakeholders when it comes to making decisions such as removing the Red Car. Every project I was a part of was different and some of the decisions were hard. Thanks for watching.
Who is it that keeps making decisions such as these? The Imagineers of today have a Disney Magic insufficiency. They're doing things that I would have expected to see at a Six Flags park. How do you feel about what is being done? I move for a vote of no confidence in Josh D'Amaro's leadership.
I can’t speak for Imagineers working today, only for myself. On any project my goal was to walk in the guest’s shoes, create amazing content and add to the value of TWDC. Thanks for watching.
Jim, you are the only retired imagineer I personally know of, so I will direct this comment to you as a proxy for you and your former peers. I can only imagine the pain many of you are experiencing as you see the product of your work steadily be devalued, diluted and destroyed by the current executives in charge of Disney. Most of us will never produce anything in our lives that positively affects millions of people only to see amateurs, activists and egoists ruin it. As a DVC member and lifelong Disney fan, this has been incredibly painful for me. Thank you all for giving us what you did in the glory days of Disney.
Lot to unpack in your thoughtful comment and thanks for it. While I enjoyed every project that I was involved in and believed each had value I valued guest opinion more than my own. No one needs a theme park so they need to be great to attract guests. Guests have a final vote that matters. Having said that I also believer short term gain is never in the long term interests of TWDC. Thanks for watching.
I hope this is 'see ya real soon' and not goodbye forever. I agree, it's not just about the capacity or E ticket status. The kinetics and theming is everything. It's what made the 1967 Tomorrowland so fantastic and Galaxy's Edge a bit of a letdown (in regards to lack of kinetics). I like the idea of moving the barn to behind Sorin and as someone mentioned here, have it travel down to Paradise Gardens. But even if it was just a loop that is better than nothing. It would be such a shame to scrap them completely and not use them in some way. Let's hope the powers that be decide to save them.
Avengers ain’t going to bring in anyone. It’s going to be just as empty as Star Wars Land. The Red Car is history it’s also IP and I think the current board can’t see or care about anything anymore. There’s No Roy anymore sadly who cares about the Companies legacy. It’s like what they plan to do here in Florida. It’s lost.
Not a mob. Polite comments delivered to TWDC during visits will be recorded. Marty Saklar would forward guest comments that I was required to read. Thanks for watching.
When DCA opened in 2001 it was "different from DL in many ways." Yes, it was Disney's attempt to be a fancier Six Flags. If planners believe they have no choice but to boot out the Red Cars, they must be inspired by DCA 1.0, not DCA 2.0. WDW has its own issues. Meanwhile, I just watched a recent vid on what Universal/Comcast is doing in Orlando. You're skating on thin ice, Disney Co. BTW, the fountains removed from the entrance to Tomorrowland are reminiscent of the recent removal of Epcot's Fountain of Nations. SMH.
Route the Red Car into the Hollywood backlot, and redo that to Monsters Inc Land or whatever they do, it’ll fit in. (I say just build a Rockin rollercoaster and call it a day). As long as Avatar doesn’t go there I think it can fit.. theme wise. I feel like losing the Red Car would kill the vibe all the way down Hollywood Blvd and Carthay Circle, Buena Vista street, etc.
I would love to see the red cars saved! Jim, do you know why they were battery powered rather than having a working overhead power system like the originals? It seems like all those batteries and rapid charging would be more expensive than 120+ year old tech, but maybe not….
Building the Red Cars with battery charging is a safe and common technology. Overhead wires are period appropriate which is why they were installed. Thanks for watching.
The comp of the Horse-drawn Carriage is perfect. DCA needs more things to do, but if it could add Avatar and grow Avengers Campus while maintaining the most charming part of the park, that would be a big win.
I am concerned that as TWDC removes fountains and moving street vehicles they edge to making the Disney Parks less enjoyable and engaging. Thanks for watching.
Attendance is literally down from last year, a lot of people are going less often, and just because something is on Disney property doesn't mean that it is above criticism. Also if caring makes you a "snowflake" then why did you bother to comment? Spend less time on the internet and you'll use less meaningless buzzwords
The Red Car Trolly..Brings The Area To Life. ~~ It's A Piece Of History..Just As The.."Iron Horse"..Moves Guest's Around..Disneyland. ~~ Plenty Of Fans Are Upset With This News And Your Suggestion Where To Put A New Barn..Is Great ! ~~ Thank's For This Post ! 🚇 9:46
“They’re calling it… a freeway. “ - Bob Iger
I do not recall that Bob Iger comment. Thanks for watching.
@@jimhshullWho Framed Roger Rabbit reference 🕵️♂️
@@jimhshull In Who Framed Roger Rabbit that's a line said when they're getting rid of the Red Car line and eliminating ToonTown
th-cam.com/video/eb09vRjmRTs/w-d-xo.html
The Kinetics and the feel and look helps make it a theme park. It becomes more bare and hollow without it. And it's one step closer to an amusement park than a theme park.
Good notes. Thanks for watching.
Taking the Trolley to the Paradise Gardens area would also allow for it to move into the expansion area across the street as well as 2 hotels
You are not wrong. Thanks for watching.
Thank you for posting this, Jim. I know that others who worked on DCA 2.0 and Buena Vista Street in particular would really like to see the Red Car live on. And so would I.
Add me to your list. Thanks for watching.
@@ThunderMesaStudio it feels a bit odd to be posting next to you rather than to you. LOL. nice to see you.
The tomorrowland shade at the end was great LOL
I’m just an observer. Thanks for watching.
Great stuff! I sure wish the current leadership at Disney would listen to you more! You definitely have the heart and mind of Walt!!!❤
Jim, I love your videos. Thank you so much for sharing them. This was a great one.
Glad you like them! Thanks for watching.
It would be neat if Disney moved the Red Car Trolley into one of the unused buildings in the Hollywood Backlot and put it on display, and surrounded it with an exhibit about the real Red Car Trolleys in Los Angeles and a retail shop with Red Car Trolley merchandise -- mugs, T-shirts, vintage style posters, die-cast models, even plush. All the "proceeds" of the merchandise could go to moving the Trolley Barn behind Soarin'. It would give the fan community a way to show their support.
And by the way, they could design the Trolley Barn as an actual vintage trolley barn vibe-wise and have a mezzanine bar around it...The Trolley Barn Bar. Could even be accessible off the esplanade. I think that would be very popular. That blending of reality and function and theme park (something that made Knott's Berry Farm magical decades ago) is an unexploited area in recent times.
Love this idea, and it would sell merch, and you could have Oswald attached to it all.
Put it in the old hollywood and dine restaraunt area that gets seldom used for promoting different things like Tron legacy.
The red car trolley is an important part of true southern CA history. In Rancho Cucamonga you can even walk or bike paved parts of the old route there.
That sort of merchandise would sell. One of a kind merchandise was once a feature of a Disneyland visit but the turn was made to sell products available on line or at your local Target. Thanks for watching.
It’s genuinely disappointing to hear that Disney wants to close down the red trolley next year, but I do hope we can find a way for it to stay at DCA. Thanks for sharing this video.
You are welcome and thanks for watching
Thank you Jim, such a great reminder of the value of vehicles and kinetics in a Disney park. It's truly one of the ways Disney Parks stand out. Hopefully they will save it, and maybe even take it all the way to Paradise Gardens like how the real old trolleys took people to the pier amusement parks. How sublime that would be!
DCA is an unusual park with its asymmetric layout, with the long arc walkway and various lands sprouting off it, radially. It feels a bit accidental (compared to the "masterplanned" hub and spoke layout of Disneyland). But I think there's potential to take that "spine" and "make more of a deal out it" in essence, as a signature layout/design feature the park can "own" and be proud of -- and I think a signature mode of transit down this spine would go a long way.
DCA is different as when it opened the park had a figure eight organization. That has changed but the original plan continues to show itself. Thanks for watching.
Hi Jim I heartily endorse your great idea!
Thanks for your endorsement and thanks for watching.
There is also the more ambitious option of sending the Red Cars down the parade corridor to Pixar Pier, giving DCA a legitimate transportation ride similar to the Disneyland Railroad. It would fit the sea side pier theme perfectly given that's how most sea side amusement parks started, being the end of the line of a trolley or train.
Really growing to hate Avengers Campus. First Tower of Terror, Its Tough to Be a Bug, now the Red Cars. Its the land that keeps on taking.
100% agree. The idea of ending by Pixar Pier corridor is best. Or have it go up there, loop around, then go into Hollywood before looping back around to the park entrance. You can definitely increase the capacity with 3 stations.
I would love to see the Redcar travel from front gates to San Fran Tokoyo
So sad to lose the Red Car, but it's also a bummer that the Blue Sky Cellar is no longer being used. I really enjoyed seeing the future plans for the park. Thanks for another great video! Enjoy hearing your perspective on all this.
The blue sky cellar is very much in use today.
@@WindowtotheMagic Not for “Blue Sky”!
The Blue Sky Cellar is now a DVC sales office. Bad timing since the building would be perfect to promote the DCA expansion sharing details of Avatar, Coco and Avengers Campus. Thanks for watching.
This channel deserves way more views! Thank u!
I’m happy with the views I’m getting since I’ve only just started. Thanks for watching.
I have never had a chance to visit DCA, but the Pacific Electric is part of Walt Disney’s California and to many others. I don’t understand why it is being removed. Your idea of a loop with two cars sounds like a far better plan. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
You are welcome. Thanks for watching.
Good Stuff!
Thanks for your comment and thanks for watching.
I rode the Red Car for the very first time in February of this year. It was very enjoyable. It's sad to hear that they're removing it. Nothing lasts forever I guess.
Thanks for making these videos! I'm loving the amazing history and insight. I have to believe that this is a temporary closure due to construction with a likely rerouting and I certainly hope so. I just can't imagine Buena Vista Street without it. And they just did a refurbishment on it a few years ago. Thanks for the great channel. I've subscribed and I'll keep watching.
It seems current Disney design does not appreciate how important "charm" is to the experience at the parks. To just sit on a bench by the Rivers of America for a few minutes and enjoy how pretty it is, to wait outside a shop while family is inside browsing and watch a carriage or streetcar go by, seems lost on them. Its those moments, that aren't rides or shows, that really make the Disney parks special and set them apart from all others. I hope they change course and preserve the magic.
Maybe they are just doing what they want to do. It’s nobody’s decision but they own. You will still go no matter how mad you get. Stop being a snowflake
@@Atyomommahouse-p2m they are doing what they want to do. The question is, are they doing what their customers and shareholders want?
@@Atyomommahouse-p2m "Disney is above all criticism and shouldn't value their customers or offerings" is a wild take but thanks anyways, I'm sure that'll improve things
@@Atyomommahouse-p2mAh, yes. "Who cares what we do, they'll still come anyway." That attitude worked out *great* for DCA 1.0. That's why, just a few years later, they had to shell out for a massive renovation that included the addition of the Red Car Trolley. Because people *didn't* come anyway.
@@brentparker7359 Totally agree. It's true that the parks fans on the forums are the extremes of both criticism and unwavering support -- it's exaggerated both ways. But to entirely ignore the concerns and criticisms is folly. Because even if it's exaggerated, there's some "truth" in it. A parks fan may say (scream) something is "the worst thing they've ever done!!!" whereas the casual customer's take may just be "meh." But that "meh" when multiplied by 17 million annual visitors means a lot of lost money. So they have to listen to rants of the park fans, tease out the "true criticism" or "true issue" and take it into consideration.
You are such a great story teller. I love Disneyland and DCA, this is part of history. If someone related to the parks read this...please do not remove it, follow Jim advice! i want my daughter to ride it once we can get to take her to the park. We live in Mexico, and I have visited Disneyland several times and even if it s not near us, because we live in the southern part of Mexico, near Guatemala, I want my child to enjoy soon some pixie dust soon and any time. Please continue posting these wonderful videos and greetings from México.
As an Executive Creative Director story telling was my role. Thanks for watching.
I would like to see it expanded! (not removed) It's essential to the theme of the California Center and should be expanded to make it a real transportation system. I've always thought that the area lacked transportation and here it is already themed for the park. Toon town is less with out it's street car and California center will be less without its street car, Too bad Disney management doesn't listen to its best employees. This sounds like an Eisner era cut-back to me. Will they ever learn?
Its becoming rather distressing how... anti-history(?) the Disney parks seem to be becoming. So much "fixing" of things that aren't broken.
Losing rides is hard and there is a cost, both to the guest who values the lost ride and TWDC who wants guest visits. Thanks for watching.
DCA 2.0 was perfect, it was honestly better than Disneyland and it was busier. Regarding the reroute I could see the trolley barn behind soarin use the extended walkway behind the airplane photo op as it’s wide enough. My only gripe with that is the cluster you’d bring with the bathrooms and the gift shop when the trolley goes by. Sometimes I wish I had the money for my own park then we’d be able to save the trolley.
DCA will get more crowded with the addition of Coco, Avatar and the expansion of Avengers Campus. Thanks for watching.
Keep these videos coming you are amazing and am really enjoying these!
I will and thanks for watching.
Great video Jim. I enjoy your posts and insights. I think relocating the barn is a great idea.
Thanks 👍 for your comment and for watching.
I've never been to Disneyland or DCA but it almost seems as though Disney doesn't want to spend the money to improve things or keep historic attractions.
I can’t comment on the values of TWDC, but I’d recommend at least once making the trip to California. Thanks for watching.
Someone send this video to Burbank and Glendale!
I’m certain that people in Glendale are watching each episode. Thanks for watching.
Any options will also need to consider the overhead wires. Even though they are not powered, there is a lot of infrastructure involed with installing them. And it limits the height of parade floats.
And Entertainment will likely rejoice if the wires are removed. Thanks for watching.
Hey Jim, Why couldn't you continue using the existing track toward Hollywood, past the passing siding and put a station right after the right turn but before the Guardians? That would preserve most of the ride and give you the same ability to run 2 cars. It does seem like the space near Soarin' is about the only place available for a barn.
That route would be another option. Thanks for watching.
If they move the barn, it should at least have the facade of the PE barn fro Roger Rabbit with a Cloverleaf sign being hung.
I doubt that they will although you present a good idea. Thanks for watching.
I worked there when they built the Red Car Trolly track. The trolleys were battery operated. They were stored in a big garage behind Tower of Terror attraction. Sad they are getting rid of it. Chip and Dale used to ride the trolley to Tower of Terror in the morning.
I recall seeing them on the trolly. Good times. Thanks for watching.
Great video, Jim !!
Glad you liked it. Thanks for watching.
If there is no way to save the trolley, I hope they bring in something like the horseless carriage, they have at Disneyland. They could have like two or three of those little vehicles taking people back-and-forth from the front of the park to Hollywood backlot
You may be correct. Thanks for watching.
Solution 1: Turn left at Hyperion Theater and use the empty cafeteria as the barn.
Solution 2: Go towards Paradise Pier as Phase 1. If the park expansion happens, build a bridge to take it to the former Simba Parking Lot. Consider adding a second car to expand capacity.
Good ideas but it is useful as an exercise to think like TWDC. Building a bridge costs money and to what purpose. Thanks for watching.
@@jimhshull They’re going to build a bridge to the Simba lot for the expansion regardless of the Red Car so adding tracks is a marginal expense.
I’m tired of people saying that the California theme of the park deserved to go because it was tacky, even though the 2012 overhaul actually gave the park quality California aspects, and now we’re stuck with this hot mess of IPs that remove everything good about the park, I just want to see them change the parks name to Cinematic Adventure so that I can still call it by DCA and that I’ve lost hope in the park
The title of the park is secondary is what the guest experiences when we visit the park. Thanks for watching.
It doesn’t matter the Red Car Trolley is closed for good at Disney California Adventure early next year
I will hold onto hope until the day the Red Car closes.
Well, I have an idea, they should bring back the trolley, change the rest of the Hollywood back lot, except for Monsters Inc into a unique version of the city of Zootopia from Shanghai Disneyland. Think about it, Zootopia is based on Los Angeles and putting an area based on Los Angeles in a park that has California in the title makes sense.
That’s an idea. Thanks for watching.
With the red car trolley announcement, betting money that Hollywood Land will sadly be eventually replaced with an IP themed land.
Yes, it’ll be sad to know that a land once known for Muppets, Monsters Inc, TRON and Marvel will now be relegated to feature only IP.
I’m not sure if you meant to be sarcastic, but if you are I’m referring to the fact that Disney will make a land for only one film franchise which limits what they can put.
when Disneyland was first conceived, places like fancy land did not rely on one story, but rather made the area so that stories past or present can be used.
IP lands tend to not stand the test of time pretty quick, unless used in a board scale, they break the kinetic energy in the park which is why new lands that are relatively new and out of place such as Star Wars Galaxy’s Edge are becoming irrelevant.
It may still be there as a land but greatly reduced. Thanks for watching.
Taking the Red Car out of Southern California was a major mistake, though I am sure G.M. and Kelly Tires disagree. Please Disney, do not make the same mistake California did and still regrets.
A good set of points. Thanks for watching.
Jim, would you ever consider a series where you'd review people's "blue sky ideas", and give advice from an imagineer's perspective?
Didn’t expect the Paradise Pier legend to be here
@@SlushysSecret the what now
@@finn_4761I think what they’re trying to say is that you shouldn’t expect Jim to respond to you.
@@finn_4761 The legend who remastered the California Screamin soundtrack
@@WindowtotheMagic I don’t expect him to respond to me, but he DOES read these comments. Just giving him an idea, there’s a lot of potential with such a concept.
I’m nervous that the barn isn’t the only reason we might lose the trolley. IF fan sites are to be believed, Hollywood is where the new Avatar area is going, if true I can understand why you wouldn’t have the Red Car go through. But if that is one of the factors, what happens to the parade route for DCA? I love a good Disney parade and imho it would be a mistake to get rid of the Red Car and parades in the name of Avatar
The addition of Avatar in Hollywood Land would impact the parade route. Thanks for watching.
I have to wonder, if they discontinue the trolley, how long will the unused track remain for everyone to trip over? That would take some money allocated to remove it, so would it be better to keep the trolley or invest in removing the track?
In 2022 they spend a lot of money to build the inductive charging station at the stop on Buena Vista Street. Discontinuing the trolley now seems like that would be a waste of investment.
The cheap answer would be to fill in around the tracks which raises other issues. Thanks for watching.
After watching this, I am curious how the decisioning process works. Can you comment on how the evaluation criteria are made and what are the key metrics for such a decision? Thanks, for your peaceful, thoughtful presentations, Jim.
After working in the park for a number of years and understanding part of the business side here is my theory:
The attractions (experiences that require operations castmembers to staff) are budgeted based on theoretical money generated. You have your operating costs and staffing paid out by the numbers of guests that partake of the attraction. Let's say each guest provides a virtual dollar when they ride, and the cost of virtual dollars to pay staff and operations exceeds that amount generated; then the attraction is on the chopping block.
While the entertainment division originally off set some of this cost at the opening of the Trolley, I don't think they still use it for character experiences.
Of course, it's not always about capacity vs value. But if the Trolley maintenance barn is in the way of building a higher capacity attraction that will actually bring guests purposely to ride the big E ticket, then it makes sense on paper to cut the Trolley
@@clinttaylor8730 Unfortunately, many of the attributes that have made Disney parks special do not have a "theoretical money generated." That's the "magic" of the Disney parks. People viscerally feel the "plussing," the obsession with detail, the plenitude of the offering.
At the genetic-creative level of the company (and the man, Walt Disney), so much of what the Disney company built its brand on was doing things in ways and at levels of thoughtfulness and attention that it would be difficult to rationalize. When Disney made animated movies with animals, they'd bring animals into the studio for the animators to sketch. Were they doing that over at the other animation studios? Multiple that times 100 years.
Disney needs to make money, for sure. The parks need to be profitable. But removing things that add vibe and charm and cannot be directly tied to revenue is folly. It would be wiser for them to have an introspective look at why their recent attractions are so expensive. Somewhere in the $200 to $500 million they are spending on recent e-ticket attractions, it's hard not to think there is some "process bloat" in there -- some extra bureaucracy, indecision, inefficiency. That happens when you are spending that kind of money. One wonders if some systemic and cultural changes in the organization -- a scrappier approach -- could save tens of millions of dollars and result in just as good -- or perhaps better -- entertainment (in the same way that $200 million AAA video games are failing nowadays whereas indy games are often better and more successful).
There are many considerations submitted by key stakeholders when it comes to making decisions such as removing the Red Car. Every project I was a part of was different and some of the decisions were hard. Thanks for watching.
Thanks for taking time to reply, Jim. Notifications are on here!
Who is it that keeps making decisions such as these? The Imagineers of today have a Disney Magic insufficiency. They're doing things that I would have expected to see at a Six Flags park. How do you feel about what is being done? I move for a vote of no confidence in Josh D'Amaro's leadership.
I can’t speak for Imagineers working today, only for myself. On any project my goal was to walk in the guest’s shoes, create amazing content and add to the value of TWDC. Thanks for watching.
Jim, you are the only retired imagineer I personally know of, so I will direct this comment to you as a proxy for you and your former peers.
I can only imagine the pain many of you are experiencing as you see the product of your work steadily be devalued, diluted and destroyed by the current executives in charge of Disney. Most of us will never produce anything in our lives that positively affects millions of people only to see amateurs, activists and egoists ruin it.
As a DVC member and lifelong Disney fan, this has been incredibly painful for me.
Thank you all for giving us what you did in the glory days of Disney.
Lot to unpack in your thoughtful comment and thanks for it. While I enjoyed every project that I was involved in and believed each had value I valued guest opinion more than my own. No one needs a theme park so they need to be great to attract guests. Guests have a final vote that matters. Having said that I also believer short term gain is never in the long term interests of TWDC. Thanks for watching.
would be cool if we could somehow use it Downtown Disney if not within DCA
Indeed. Thanks for watching.
I hope this is 'see ya real soon' and not goodbye forever. I agree, it's not just about the capacity or E ticket status. The kinetics and theming is everything. It's what made the 1967 Tomorrowland so fantastic and Galaxy's Edge a bit of a letdown (in regards to lack of kinetics). I like the idea of moving the barn to behind Sorin and as someone mentioned here, have it travel down to Paradise Gardens. But even if it was just a loop that is better than nothing. It would be such a shame to scrap them completely and not use them in some way. Let's hope the powers that be decide to save them.
Avengers ain’t going to bring in anyone. It’s going to be just as empty as Star Wars Land. The Red Car is history it’s also IP and I think the current board can’t see or care about anything anymore. There’s No Roy anymore sadly who cares about the Companies legacy. It’s like what they plan to do here in Florida. It’s lost.
The focus is on popular IP in the parks. The problem is popular IP over time becomes less popular. Thanks for watching.
Waste of time unless Disney has a purpose for it.Hey Brickey has already gone through this.
Speaking of the kinetics what comes to mind is the lose of the Peoplemover. How it used to a kinetic energy to Tomorrowland.
Indeed it did. Thanks for watching.
We need to form an angry mob to stop disney from destroying this classic
Not gonna happen and, even if it did happen , it wouldn’t change anything.
Think Jan 6. Angry mobs change nothing.
Not a mob. Polite comments delivered to TWDC during visits will be recorded. Marty Saklar would forward guest comments that I was required to read. Thanks for watching.
When DCA opened in 2001 it was "different from DL in many ways." Yes, it was Disney's attempt to be a fancier Six Flags. If planners believe they have no choice but to boot out the Red Cars, they must be inspired by DCA 1.0, not DCA 2.0. WDW has its own issues. Meanwhile, I just watched a recent vid on what Universal/Comcast is doing in Orlando. You're skating on thin ice, Disney Co. BTW, the fountains removed from the entrance to Tomorrowland are reminiscent of the recent removal of Epcot's Fountain of Nations. SMH.
I believe when Universal’s Epic Universe opens in 2025 it will impact WDW, and not in a good way. Thanks for watching.
Why are they removing the Red Car?? Why not just remove EVERYTHING Walt loved or would have. I grew up SoCal in the 60's.....I miss that DL. Thx
Removing activity reduces the value of a park in terms of guest interest. Thanks for watching.
The Red Car adds much to DCA and will be missed.
Route the Red Car into the Hollywood backlot, and redo that to Monsters Inc Land or whatever they do, it’ll fit in. (I say just build a Rockin rollercoaster and call it a day). As long as Avatar doesn’t go there I think it can fit.. theme wise.
I feel like losing the Red Car would kill the vibe all the way down Hollywood Blvd and Carthay Circle, Buena Vista street, etc.
Removing the Red Car would remove visual energy from the front of DCA. Thanks for watching.
I would love to see the red cars saved! Jim, do you know why they were battery powered rather than having a working overhead power system like the originals? It seems like all those batteries and rapid charging would be more expensive than 120+ year old tech, but maybe not….
Building the Red Cars with battery charging is a safe and common technology. Overhead wires are period appropriate which is why they were installed. Thanks for watching.
The comp of the Horse-drawn Carriage is perfect. DCA needs more things to do, but if it could add Avatar and grow Avengers Campus while maintaining the most charming part of the park, that would be a big win.
I am concerned that as TWDC removes fountains and moving street vehicles they edge to making the Disney Parks less enjoyable and engaging. Thanks for watching.
Too many snowflakes. It’s Disney property. And people will still show up. I’m tired of all these people complaining and they will still show up.
Attendance is literally down from last year, a lot of people are going less often, and just because something is on Disney property doesn't mean that it is above criticism.
Also if caring makes you a "snowflake" then why did you bother to comment? Spend less time on the internet and you'll use less meaningless buzzwords
Of course, one is a snowflake if they care about a particular part of a Disney park being lost. Grow up.
No doubt that TWDC can do what they want with the parks, however parks need to earn guest trust to earn guest money. Thanks for watching.
The Red Car Trolly..Brings The Area To Life. ~~ It's A Piece Of History..Just As The.."Iron Horse"..Moves Guest's Around..Disneyland. ~~ Plenty Of Fans Are Upset With This News And Your Suggestion Where To Put A New Barn..Is Great ! ~~ Thank's For This Post ! 🚇 9:46