I really hope this works out for you. I have heard some real horror stories about the lack of quality of new all in one A/C systems lately (especially since COVID) from my contacts at the local shipyard. Maybe now that we are past that hump, things will get better and competition will give us more options. Thanks for sharing your experience!
Very interested. Installing AirCon with DC compressor and Fan. Will be surprised if all the numbers make you happy when all units are installed and all running at one time and how much load shedding they can do once they reach to temp set in Florida
We have 2x 220v 17k BTU units that have VFD installed on our Leopard 50. They did a good job of keeping us cool in harbortown and here in Isle of Hope this summer when temps got to around 92-3 every day. I agree with you, most energy use numbers do not consider the water pump draw, which is significant.
Hey Ty I bought a 24v aircon from China in the beginning of this year. I fitted it under our main cabin bed. It’s a 12000btu unit and works like a dream. We are currently in Malaysia ( Langkawi ) duty free and I gave the info to friends who bought some 12v units. They are all working great. The temperatures out here are insane. They do a 48v unit but we run 24v so I never looked into it. My unit cost us $1700 including the shipping to Thailand at the time as we were there. The Company in China have been very responsive to all of us and we are pretty happy with the units. Any other comparable DC aircon this side is more than double that price!!
Hey guys, great video....HVAC is right up my alley after 40 years and i love how you covered it! We just used your code for Annapolis and saved $20! See you guys there.... Dave and Tina : )
I have been on the lookout for a 12v aircon system for by boat. Would you be able to share where one can buy such a unit? Great vid, hope the boat is nice and cool now….
I’m looking forward to this series. We chose a high-efficiency, stand alone 24V unit from the Italian company Termodinamica for our keel bot. As you have probably seen, Boat RX has done some impressive projects with equipment from this company. It will be interesting to see how your experience lives up to your hopes and dreams. Good luck!
Can’t wait for the results. Waiting to fit some AC on oceanis 45. Would love to put in some 48v alternator and fit a a 48v dc. Still unsure which battery that can take that kind of charge. A lot of drop in seems to have smallish bms. Did you look at thermodynamica? A bit like a chiller system except it runs refrigerant to different part of the boat. Though it’s AC powered.
In an on land cabin, you can get a 38 SEER ductless mini-split and run off of an inverter. About 2.5 times more efficient than the best DC systems at any voltage. They are also less expensive due to the fact that they are manufactured in a much higher volume. I am a retired HVAC designer. My 44' motor sailer has old fashioned lead acid batteries (for now - Lifepo4 is coming). I run a 16 Seer Midea window unit. 8,000 btus. My 12 golf cart 6 volt batteries and Victron inverter run it overnight, no problem. I cannot find a marine water cooled unit that even comes close. I may build one.
Sounds fascinating. I will be watching this with interest. You are a very talented guy who it seems knows a lot about a lot. Great presentation skills Tye. Bring on the next episode 🎉
Early days, but Hi-Five 🖐& thank you so much for covering this (+ all the other stuff you've discovered, shared). I considered Clarks, but as you say, great for berth sleeping, I don't always sleep in the berth, make it portable, still restricted to room size. The next option was 240v split system, which Captain Rick Moore has. Empathise the extent to contact China, translation issues, etc. Excited to see your results. A similar subject is diy chest freezers, say built-in under seating, for long remote, crossings.
Would also be looking at using heat exchangers to use the waste heat from the cabin cooling to a heat pump hot water tank, the other thing i would do is put plumbing in so you can hook up a radiator or even a couple of IBC's when on the hard to keep the aircon functioning.
Always seemed to me that car AC systems work just fine. Searched for 12V AC systems 30 years ago. I suppose the market wasn't there but the technology certainly was. You might look at what the Kelley's did on their previous boat. Good luck and much love
I will be very interested to know how this works out. Biggest problem for ac aircon is the starting current, do you happen to know yet how the compressor amps at start up are dealt with differently than an ac unit?
I did a bunch of research and bought a velair 10k unit then found the unit you're describing from China for half the price! The funny thing is my cat is named dauntless too!
I really like the variable speed compressor. Other than that the numbers aren‘t really THAT impressive. The factory-installed Cruisair units on our Leopard 48 consume as follows: 12kBTU units in the hulls - 800-850W from the 48V battery system (so not the wrong AC numbers calculated by the Cerbo) including inverter loss. 16kBTU unit in the salon - 1100-1200W including inverter loss. No idea why the units on the 50 use that much more or whether it‘s a wrong readout but a MultiPlus 5k could run all 3 AC A/C units without breaking a sweat. In the end those systems are just heat pumps - whether they‘re heating or cooling. You won‘t miraculously find a 50% efficiency improvement in that. I wouldn‘t replace a running AC A/C with it. As you‘re buying new I like the idea. I just hope „China“ survives for more than a year. 😉
100%. But this stuff is 70s tech. So using a current model that gets a Barnacle Buster treatment of the heat exchanger every now and then should be more than enough - we‘re the sailing proof… 😉
Truly love the breakdown of all the projects you tackle. Did you learn all this on the fly or do you have a background in engineering or are you just a serious weekend warrior with mad skills? lol. Can't wait for you and the fam to hit the water. Cheers and all the best.
I went to A/C school in 1961 I found that chemical companies don't give a fiddler's damn about how hot we get it is all about doing the standard thing like your doctor. While we get sicker they make money. Do a little experiment place 12 ounces of water in a small bottle and put a fitting on the lid. Then draw a perfect vacuum on the bottle when about one ounce of water is gone the temperature water is 36 degrees. All a/c units have a head pressure of about 200 psi. The vacuum required is less than -15 psi so which will take the most energy. This is a little game for the mind.. If you had a 12-inch pipe 100 feet tall being caped on both ends and a fawcett on each end place an old wash tub of water at the bottom when you pump water to the top after bleeding out the air. When the pump is off the water will fall to 33 feet and 11 inches. This is all the atmosphere will support. The temperature at the top will go down to 36 degrees this cold water will not stay at the top it will fall and be replaced with warmer water. Our overlords don't want us to use water as a refrigerant.
Did you consider the Velair brushless variable speed compressor 110v units? I just put their second gen 10k btu unit on my Manta catamaran to cool the aft two queen bed sleeping cabins. Down in eco/sleep mode after the initial cool down I’ve been around 70-80 12v amps per night not including the raw water pump. I’m swapping to a DC water pump which should lower the amp draw even more but I’m still waiting on parts.
I like what you are doing there. I wonder if you could get more data if you put a thermometer on the inlet and outlet of the SW cooling for each individual fan. Also to record compartment temp and outside temp and ocean temp. I know you plan to cool the units with salt water, could you use/plan a home made brine system as long as you got a big enough heat exchanger and pump? Sw pump, heat exchanger (shell and tube type with corrosion piece on sw side), brine pump, brine tank. Just thinking about the sw system plugging at inconvenient places in the boat. This way you keep the sw in mechanical area of boat/engine room. Do you have any concerns with the refrigerant in spaces that it cools, if it leaks (heavier than air). Are there alarm systems for that?
Thank you for watching, I am building a flushing system for maintenance to make keeping the system clean. It is only necessary to do so when in dirty water for long periods of time. The refrigerant is of little concern as there isn’t much of it. Just a few hundred grams per unit.
How about the name of the Chinese manufacturer? Just bought an older boat and are hoping to convert to 100% solar and this information would be super helpful. Great channel for first timer btw.
@@michaeltownsend4644they are easy to find online. I've tried explaining it but every time I do this guy's channel censors it and deletes my post. Took my wife 10 minutes to find it online.
@thedonavan you can’t put web links in the TH-cam comment posts. You need to type it out so it’s not a hyperlink. That’s why it’s probably deleting. This is TH-cam. This is the rule on all of TH-cam.
OK you have my attention. Dealing😂with China not easy. I know I have a microbrewery and my equipment is Chinese. Except the bottleling machine is Italian. I bought a Whitby 42 at green cove springs. That hopefully will sail it down to Puerto Rico this December. But for next summer I am planning to change house bank inverter to a 12 and 24 output type.with lithium 24v batteries so can store more amp hours. So will follow your post closely. Good winds
Hi, I understand the invert compressor,but I don't understand why r134a gas, which is dangerous for ozone. In Europe, r32 is used, which is safe for ozone.r134a has not been used for 15 years in Europe and is banned.
Just to be sure I get this right, 720W at 12.000BTU, which equals 3.500kW gives a COP around 4.5 right? There are several mini-splits (I think you call them that right?) with a COP or SCOP above 5.0, they are A/C of course, but the conversion loss is a lot less than a difference from 4.5 to 5 or 5.3? I don’t know much about boats, and don’t know if a mini-split would be a terrible idea on a boat, so forgive me… It might be like Dometic fridges, that costs 10 times what a A+++ household fridge does, while using 10 times the power… niche (and leasure) market, next to zero competition equals no real innovation…
Due to cost, budget, some sail boats currently use 240v split, takes up space on a mono, unit is out in corrosive weather, but could go through a few before matching cost to what Ty's original setup cost. Curious what you consider a "mini" system (model)? Might be different to what I'm thinking.
@@Lana_Warwick Thanks for the reply. I get your point on the outside unit having a very short life in a saltwater environment! The smallest we got here in Denmark is around 3.5kW/12.000BTU with a SCOP around 5.3. I don’t know mono units, where does the heat/cold go if there’s no outside unit?
Lots we can & have done without a/c, but a/c is the only method I'm aware of to combat humidity, which becomes condensation, mould, in nooks and crannies we can't see, let alone get to. Heat also radiates off the water surface into the hull, warms the water, which is what all those little critters we require anti-foul for love
@@Lana_Warwickyou're correct only an AC unit can reduce humidity. The way AC works is before it does any cooling of the space it removes the water in the air. Any left over cooling capacity is available to reduce the air temperature. By using insulation and low-e glass you reduce heat gain in the boat so what cooling is left over has less to remove.
![Battery-Powered AIR CONDITIONING on a Sailboat [Capable Cruising Guides]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xF113aUlZgo/mqdefault.jpg)
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
This was one of those videos I am here for, that I only see here. Projects like this make you what you are and special in my eyes. Thank you!
Very interested. Installing A/C on our little 26’ boat this spring. Thanks!
Always have the latest and greatest ideas and tools.
Your channel just keeps better! Love this type of content and i am absolutely looking forward to the install and testruns!
Ty, Why no link to the manufacturer so we can start to do our own research?
SO EXCITING!!
Good stuff. Clark is an amazing engineer.
I really hope this works out for you. I have heard some real horror stories about the lack of quality of new all in one A/C systems lately (especially since COVID) from my contacts at the local shipyard. Maybe now that we are past that hump, things will get better and competition will give us more options. Thanks for sharing your experience!
EMILY & CLARK ARE THE BEST… I learned so much about all aspects of sailing from them..
Great news! Thanks!
Really the best technical channel on youtube! ❤
Great and informative! #NoMoreHotWorkEnvironment
Bring it on. I geek out on this sort of content.
Looking forward to seeing your results!
So exciting and hope that your new solution design works as you hope!!🙏
Very interested. Installing AirCon with DC compressor and Fan. Will be surprised if all the numbers make you happy when all units are installed and all running at one time and how much load shedding they can do once they reach to temp set in Florida
I have a 12v air conditioner. I definitely paid through the nose for it, but it does work as advertised. We run it every single night in our cabin.
Looking forward to the install!
We have 2x 220v 17k BTU units that have VFD installed on our Leopard 50. They did a good job of keeping us cool in harbortown and here in Isle of Hope this summer when temps got to around 92-3 every day. I agree with you, most energy use numbers do not consider the water pump draw, which is significant.
I'm looking forward to the series!
Great! Can't wait to see the numbers.
This AC Unit sounds quite amazing! Cant wait to see the results! and price?
Another great video
Love this! I was looking at a DC system for my Airstream.
Excited to get information on ordering these from China!
Hey Ty I bought a 24v aircon from China in the beginning of this year. I fitted it under our main cabin bed. It’s a 12000btu unit and works like a dream. We are currently in Malaysia ( Langkawi ) duty free and I gave the info to friends who bought some 12v units. They are all working great. The temperatures out here are insane. They do a 48v unit but we run 24v so I never looked into it. My unit cost us $1700 including the shipping to Thailand at the time as we were there. The Company in China have been very responsive to all of us and we are pretty happy with the units. Any other comparable DC aircon this side is more than double that price!!
Hi Mike can you post a link or company name?
Hey guys, great video....HVAC is right up my alley after 40 years and i love how you covered it! We just used your code for Annapolis and saved $20! See you guys there.... Dave and Tina : )
Awesome! Thank you! Glad you approve :-)
Brilliant video, I hope it works out, I’d love to have aircon in my Columbia 34mkii
Great breakdown Ty 💪
Looking forward to the results, A/C on our 34' Catamaran is a project we have on the list of things to do.
I like it more please🌞
I have been on the lookout for a 12v aircon system for by boat. Would you be able to share where one can buy such a unit? Great vid, hope the boat is nice and cool now….
Hi, did you consider using Mabru units? They are 12V, but made out of copper and are also up to 12000 BTU.
I’m looking forward to this series. We chose a high-efficiency, stand alone 24V unit from the Italian company Termodinamica for our keel bot. As you have probably seen, Boat RX has done some impressive projects with equipment from this company. It will be interesting to see how your experience lives up to your hopes and dreams. Good luck!
I've been trying to get information on the cost of the Termodinamica system, and I can't find anything. What did your system cost and what btu rating?
Can’t wait for the results. Waiting to fit some AC on oceanis 45.
Would love to put in some 48v alternator and fit a a 48v dc. Still unsure which battery that can take that kind of charge. A lot of drop in seems to have smallish bms.
Did you look at thermodynamica? A bit like a chiller system except it runs refrigerant to different part of the boat. Though it’s AC powered.
Living in North Carolina, and having an Off Grid cabin that I'm looking at putting Solar with battery storage on, these interest me GREATLY!
In an on land cabin, you can get a 38 SEER ductless mini-split and run off of an inverter. About 2.5 times more efficient than the best DC systems at any voltage. They are also less expensive due to the fact that they are manufactured in a much higher volume. I am a retired HVAC designer. My 44' motor sailer has old fashioned lead acid batteries (for now - Lifepo4 is coming). I run a 16 Seer Midea window unit. 8,000 btus. My 12 golf cart 6 volt batteries and Victron inverter run it overnight, no problem. I cannot find a marine water cooled unit that even comes close. I may build one.
Great video! Before you showed your solution I was wondering if you could use a 48v motor connected to an automotive compressor?
Sounds fascinating. I will be watching this with interest. You are a very talented guy who it seems knows a lot about a lot. Great presentation skills Tye. Bring on the next episode 🎉
Awesome!
Early days, but Hi-Five 🖐& thank you so much for covering this (+ all the other stuff you've discovered, shared). I considered Clarks, but as you say, great for berth sleeping, I don't always sleep in the berth, make it portable, still restricted to room size. The next option was 240v split system, which Captain Rick Moore has. Empathise the extent to contact China, translation issues, etc. Excited to see your results. A similar subject is diy chest freezers, say built-in under seating, for long remote, crossings.
The aircon sounds good 😅
Would also be looking at using heat exchangers to use the waste heat from the cabin cooling to a heat pump hot water tank, the other thing i would do is put plumbing in so you can hook up a radiator or even a couple of IBC's when on the hard to keep the aircon functioning.
Awesome episode!
Always seemed to me that car AC systems work just fine. Searched for 12V AC systems 30 years ago. I suppose the market wasn't there but the technology certainly was. You might look at what the Kelley's did on their previous boat. Good luck and much love
Excellent presentation and wonderful useful content keep up great TH-cam videos love you guys..be blessed
Lovin it! Great info!!
I will be very interested to know how this works out. Biggest problem for ac aircon is the starting current, do you happen to know yet how the compressor amps at start up are dealt with differently than an ac unit?
Hi Ty! Any updates on the success of the 48v ACs after running a few months?
Yes, we are very happy and putting an order together for everyone that is interested.
Ty we are interested too how can I get in on the order
Dude really a simple Alibaba search found them within 2 min. :-) But thanks for brining up to my attention. Great job on the boat !
Thank you for your concern! We were all back and prepped together and rode it out as a team.
So why not keep the same evaporators for the old chiller unit, use a dc inverter heatpump? Less noise, less ducting.
I did a bunch of research and bought a velair 10k unit then found the unit you're describing from China for half the price!
The funny thing is my cat is named dauntless too!
Have you guys announced times for Annapolis?
I really like the variable speed compressor.
Other than that the numbers aren‘t really THAT impressive. The factory-installed Cruisair units on our Leopard 48 consume as follows:
12kBTU units in the hulls - 800-850W from the 48V battery system (so not the wrong AC numbers calculated by the Cerbo) including inverter loss.
16kBTU unit in the salon - 1100-1200W including inverter loss.
No idea why the units on the 50 use that much more or whether it‘s a wrong readout but a MultiPlus 5k could run all 3 AC A/C units without breaking a sweat.
In the end those systems are just heat pumps - whether they‘re heating or cooling. You won‘t miraculously find a 50% efficiency improvement in that.
I wouldn‘t replace a running AC A/C with it. As you‘re buying new I like the idea. I just hope „China“ survives for more than a year. 😉
Being a heat pump efficiency of the compressor can make a huge difference though. Thermal conductivity of the condenser as well I guess.
100%. But this stuff is 70s tech. So using a current model that gets a Barnacle Buster treatment of the heat exchanger every now and then should be more than enough - we‘re the sailing proof… 😉
Truly love the breakdown of all the projects you tackle. Did you learn all this on the fly or do you have a background in engineering or are you just a serious weekend warrior with mad skills? lol. Can't wait for you and the fam to hit the water. Cheers and all the best.
I went to A/C school in 1961 I found that chemical companies don't give a fiddler's damn about how hot we get it is all about doing the standard thing like your doctor. While we get sicker they make money. Do a little experiment place 12 ounces of water in a small bottle and put a fitting on the lid. Then draw a perfect vacuum on the bottle when about one ounce of water is gone the temperature water is 36 degrees. All a/c units have a head pressure of about 200 psi. The vacuum required is less than -15 psi so which will take the most energy. This is a little game for the mind.. If you had a 12-inch pipe 100 feet tall being caped on both ends and a fawcett on each end place an old wash tub of water at the bottom when you pump water to the top after bleeding out the air. When the pump is off the water will fall to 33 feet and 11 inches. This is all the atmosphere will support. The temperature at the top will go down to 36 degrees this cold water will not stay at the top it will fall and be replaced with warmer water. Our overlords don't want us to use water as a refrigerant.
Sailing Nahoa , installed DC air in there cat.
Did you consider the Velair brushless variable speed compressor 110v units?
I just put their second gen 10k btu unit on my Manta catamaran to cool the aft two queen bed sleeping cabins.
Down in eco/sleep mode after the initial cool down I’ve been around 70-80 12v amps per night not including the raw water pump.
I’m swapping to a DC water pump which should lower the amp draw even more but
I’m still waiting on parts.
Did you mention why you didn't go for a Heat Pump? I assume that these units that you are building, do not heat as well as cool?
They actually heat as well, I thought that mentioned that but maybe I missed it. They have three modes cool/heat/fan
Did you consider the Frigomar units?
I'd be interested in how this would work on an RV. 12/24 V Dc is the way to go. Refrigerators have already moved to that format.
I like what you are doing there.
I wonder if you could get more data if you put a thermometer on the inlet and outlet of the SW cooling for each individual fan. Also to record compartment temp and outside temp and ocean temp.
I know you plan to cool the units with salt water, could you use/plan a home made brine system as long as you got a big enough heat exchanger and pump? Sw pump, heat exchanger (shell and tube type with corrosion piece on sw side), brine pump, brine tank. Just thinking about the sw system plugging at inconvenient places in the boat. This way you keep the sw in mechanical area of boat/engine room.
Do you have any concerns with the refrigerant in spaces that it cools, if it leaks (heavier than air). Are there alarm systems for that?
Thank you for watching, I am building a flushing system for maintenance to make keeping the system clean. It is only necessary to do so when in dirty water for long periods of time. The refrigerant is of little concern as there isn’t much of it. Just a few hundred grams per unit.
Please provide a link to the unit
There is no link, they are not available stateside yet
How about the name of the Chinese manufacturer? Just bought an older boat and are hoping to convert to 100% solar and this information would be super helpful. Great channel for first timer btw.
@@SailingDauntlessI'd like the name of the Chinese manufacturer he's going through too.
@@michaeltownsend4644they are easy to find online. I've tried explaining it but every time I do this guy's channel censors it and deletes my post. Took my wife 10 minutes to find it online.
@thedonavan you can’t put web links in the TH-cam comment posts. You need to type it out so it’s not a hyperlink. That’s why it’s probably deleting. This is TH-cam. This is the rule on all of TH-cam.
invert compressors use electronics that it is important to protect well against corrosion
Plenty of ways to do that, circuit board protective coatings, dielectric grease, terminal sprays, replace wiring with tin, solder, heat shrink.
OK you have my attention. Dealing😂with China not easy. I know I have a microbrewery and my equipment is Chinese. Except the bottleling machine is Italian. I bought a Whitby 42 at green cove springs. That hopefully will sail it down to Puerto Rico this December. But for next summer I am planning to change house bank inverter to a 12 and 24 output type.with lithium 24v batteries so can store more amp hours. So will follow your post closely. Good winds
Hi, I understand the invert compressor,but I don't understand why r134a gas, which is dangerous for ozone. In Europe, r32 is used, which is safe for ozone.r134a has not been used for 15 years in Europe and is banned.
👍🏽
Looking
For more info. 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍💯
did you guys look at heat pumps? tesla heat pumps, not the giant home units.
👍✅🥶
Just to be sure I get this right, 720W at 12.000BTU, which equals 3.500kW gives a COP around 4.5 right?
There are several mini-splits (I think you call them that right?) with a COP or SCOP above 5.0, they are A/C of course, but the conversion loss is a lot less than a difference from 4.5 to 5 or 5.3?
I don’t know much about boats, and don’t know if a mini-split would be a terrible idea on a boat, so forgive me…
It might be like Dometic fridges, that costs 10 times what a A+++ household fridge does, while using 10 times the power… niche (and leasure) market, next to zero competition equals no real innovation…
Due to cost, budget, some sail boats currently use 240v split, takes up space on a mono, unit is out in corrosive weather, but could go through a few before matching cost to what Ty's original setup cost. Curious what you consider a "mini" system (model)? Might be different to what I'm thinking.
@@Lana_Warwick Thanks for the reply. I get your point on the outside unit having a very short life in a saltwater environment!
The smallest we got here in Denmark is around 3.5kW/12.000BTU with a SCOP around 5.3.
I don’t know mono units, where does the heat/cold go if there’s no outside unit?
phukin hell dude ...Nice work
Al;most the same as VRV systems
i didnt realize it was the original owners maiden voyage!! guess i missed that..
Mabru units from china I assume.
I hope not there’s much better options now
@@jordan0brown What might that be???
@@lee8652 +1, I'm sure everyone would be interested in knowledge/experience shared, especially Ty if there's better options.
Look at Termodynamica, they have a 48v system. Different approach than others are taking.
@@jordan0brown Thank you. guess you meant "Termodinamica", that's what google showed
other countries run on 24v
Didn’t know the previous owner of your cat sunk if on its maiden voyage. Very amusing.
Insulating your boat and using low-e glass or window tint will cut your heat load.
Lots we can & have done without a/c, but a/c is the only method I'm aware of to combat humidity, which becomes condensation, mould, in nooks and crannies we can't see, let alone get to. Heat also radiates off the water surface into the hull, warms the water, which is what all those little critters we require anti-foul for love
@@Lana_Warwickyou're correct only an AC unit can reduce humidity. The way AC works is before it does any cooling of the space it removes the water in the air. Any left over cooling capacity is available to reduce the air temperature. By using insulation and low-e glass you reduce heat gain in the boat so what cooling is left over has less to remove.
I wanted a SAILING channel not a DIY channel, so i unsubscribed.
Well, unfortunately we have to DIY before we can SAIL not being wealthy and all…