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What's your thoughts about your county invading Indonesia in the past?, Does your country's history doesn't teaches about how your country invading a lot of place in the past?
My personal issue with the site you listed, is that the katanas start at $7,500 (they’re also custom made so I have no idea what’s going on past blade length). To be honest, I’d rather just go to Japan to get one since I’d be spending several thousand dollars plus shipping and handling.
@@outboundflight4455 Absolutely but if I’m paying $7,500 minimum, plus tax, plus shipping and handling, the sword is gonna be closer to $10,000 and I might as well go on vacation and buy a katana. Buying a cultural item and experience the culture first hand would be great value, personally.
Before starting the video itself, I'd like to preface that the only authentic Japanese Katana (Nihonto/Shinken) is hand-forged from the Tamahagane, which is a controlled resources by a certain company in Japan. Katana produced outside Japan can be either hand-forged or machine forged, but all of them are made of modern steel. Modern steel are so much better in terms of mechanical properties, but it does not have cultural value at all compared to true tamahagane blade.
Yup, if all you care about is authenticity then a traditional made Tamahagane blade will be the only thing you need. Still, if someone don't care about culture value, spiritualy, only care about having a functional sword for martial art purposes, a modern steel sword is a superior choice
Continuing from the previous post above, foreign made katana would be illegal because they're considered weapon and not a piece of art with cultural value and such. And as far as I know, Japan has no law regulating normal bladed weapons over the current limit (for example, pocket knife has to be under 2.5cm blade length)
@@victoriazero8869 I am from Finland so did i get it right. You cannot own any other sword in Japan than real Katana and your own cultural weapons? Kitchen knifes ok, but sword, dagger, combat knife and any clearly non too knives are illegal? I know gun laws are pretty hard there.
@@victoriazero8869 So where does the Shin Gunto fall into such a category? They clearly are made from Japan, but it was manufactured in modern steel with modern machine methods as well as using a cast handle.
@@firepower7017 Shin Gunto are illegal and if you found one from your grandpapa you have to hand it to police to be destroyed. And yes, other Japanese weapons are also restricted. Shogo said in the Video about 15cm blade for wakizashi and naginata but the details are unclear for me, though most Wakizashi came with Katana as bundled items anyhow (should share the same legal document).
I really love and agree with Shogo's attitude on this subject. It reminds me of a guy whose book I readwho was hugely into Harley Davison motorcycles. He basically said he liked Harley's for the tradition, the aesthetic, the spirit of the bikes, and the hobby of tinkering with them. That said, if he just wanted a quality motorcycle that worked well and needed little maintenance, he would buy a Honda because they're just objectivly better at being a two-wheeled motorized transportation.
Is the book you're talking about Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance? I've read it years ago and has a lot of great insights about life. Even though o don't remember everything I've read (hence why my question here), I highly recommend it!
Sentiment, symbolism, and heritage. It's feels similar to buying a custom Western era style Revolver from a Gun Smith, it's very much about preserving the legacy of a way of life as a living history.
The pros and cons of tradition. History is very important, but unfortunately focussing on it too much can prevent creativity and thinking outside the box.
First point is totally valid . Regarding your second point I really would like to know what you think about master smiths overseas. The first person that comes to mind is Walter Sorrells. I feel disappointed that as a person in Japan I can't order a piece of work by him just because he's outside of Japan. How do you feel about this?
While Walter Sorrells makes good blades for the western market, he is not a licensed swordsmith. The Japanese government licenses smiths after a rigorous apprenticeship period and a functional test of making a Wakizashi. I may be mistaken but only one gaijin every achieved a license and that was Keith Austin. Kinda surprised Shogo missed the fact that only a blade forged by a licensed smith can be considered a katana.
@@jsullivan2112 Eh, kinda sorta more glossed over it than tackled it directly. It's part of that law which also limits the number of swords a licensed smith can produce per month - two katana; not sure about Wakizashi and tanto though. There is a movement in Japan that is slowly gathering steam to repeal the law but it's not popular to stand in open opposition to it.
@@jsullivan2112 He glossed over it. The certification of actual Nihonto Shinken is rigorous and thorough, and yes you can't carry it in the open. You need special carry case for it, much like guns in some parts of the world.
I see the swords and firearms law as very flawed. It needs to be opened up to allow for European swords to be considered art, and to allow for a new category of sharp steel sword made by certified swordsmiths but with modern steel. The purpose of them would be to serve katana trainees for battodo, tameshigiri, etc. without damaging an expensive art sword, and increased safety due to the modern steel. Also it will allow Japanese swordsmiths to sell in a profitable market. The reason for the existence (and prosperous business) of those websites is because there is a market demand. It should be allowed for Japanese swordsmiths to own that market instead of companies that will degrade the image of the katana.
For someone who can afford real katana and appreciate, they wont care about those websites and still only buy real katana . And for someone who cannot afford, they wont care about how "real" the katana are, they just want some toys. Conclusion, no one care about allow for a new category of sharp steel sword made by certified swordsmiths but with modern steel.
@@kilercola And not much in the way of historical significance either. Most won't bother, so there's no lucrative market for swords there. In contrast, Katana is popular in both historical setpieces and pop culture, so the worldwide market is huge.
it's not that flawd since european style swords are not a main concern for japanese people, even japanese trowble makers and that is the thing about laws, they don't need to be objetive or to have intrinsic value. A law is only and only needs to be aplicable to the extents that concerns the society it is designed to serve.
@@smallfish01 I think a budget market would complement the high-end market. Clay shooters often spend $10k+ to get a hand-fitted, bespoke weapon with custom engraving made especially for them, despite the fact that they invariably start off with a
As a European, I have to stress that importing an iaito from Japan needed the same kind of license and paperwork as if it were a weapon. Including a screening by the Police. I guess it would have been even harder for a shinken. Consequently, I cannot blame people who opt for buying from other markets, if they can get past that more easily.
I am pretty sure it is hard to order lets say real hand made viking sword and own it. Seems like all other swords are considered illegal weapons. So real viking sword would cost thousands of euros to get the right permits and fill the paperwork.
@@Resident-cb3yz oh, certainly, but there are other hassles, because of the non-EU origin, I didn't get into. Like having to go through customs and associated fees.
@@Resident-cb3yz I live in Germany and I can order and own any sword I want. I own several sharp swords. I do not own a "real" Katana by the Japanese definition, but that is due to the price.
There is so much misinformation and lack of knowledge about Japanese swords on the internet. I really appreciate Shogo making videos like this to help explain the difference between Nihonto and non-Japanese swords. For anyone interested in this topic, do LOTS of research. Buy books; don't rely on random TH-cam channels. You'll quickly understand WHY a real Japanese sword is so valuable, and how it differs from swords made elsewhere.
@@cyan_oxy6734 I wouldn't exaggerated it to the level of car prices. Right now you can buy a legitimate Nihonto for $2000+ and the market is cheap right now because Japan is hurting for money from the border closing.
In a perfect world, a swordsmith hopes that the buyer esteems his sword as much as he does but in reality, value is ultimately in the eyes of the buyer. People buy katanas for reasons that are no less important than a swordsmith's reasons for making them and often do so at a steep personal price. We can only strive to educate people about the culture behind them and hope that others find the culture worthy of preservation.
13:45 "Traditional steel has flaws." Indeed! Tamahagane is made of an iron sand (satetsu) found in Shimane, Japan. This sand is heated and the iron melts and settles to the bottom where it is collected, heated and hammered together, but not liquefied as with modern crucible (or blast furnace) steel where impurities are skimmed away. Tamahagane inherently has more non metallic inclusions because it's produced by forge consolidation of a bloom. Even though it's sorted for carbon content inside that bloom, and thus can have a nice hard edge, it's still going to have plenty of forge welds to get it to that stage. And the non metallic inclusions in tamahagane can lead to failure under stress where inclusions may cause a fatal stress point, or where a weld fails and opens.
May I ask why not make more katana out of more modern day steel? I daily carry knife made out of K390, Rx45, Maxima, etc. They seems like perfect steel for something like katana.
@@kevinhuang888 He explain that in the video, mUh tRadITIoN. Kinda like how swiss lose the general clock industry to japan. There are katana that will serve as a better weapon and cheaper available.
isnt impurities also gotten rid of by the folding process and why it was implemented? thats why i dont like the sites that say "it was folded 2000 times" because that suggests to me they were using a low quality iron that needed to be folded or they were folding it just so they can say they did because modern steels already have very little impurities or none to begin with.
I understand your points but it is still sad to see such a high barrier of entry for Japanese to do Battodo. I am sure lots of japanese people would like to try it but simply can't afford it.
I can respect the tradition and artistry of the Japanese katana in the same way I'd respect any other traditionally made weapon from some other region, and I believe that retaining the knowledge and practices for such is important. My utilitarian side, however, is more likely going to value availability($$) and edge retention which probably be more readily available in non traditionally crafted swords. This goes for western weapons as well. I'd take a steel sword over a traditionally bronze or copper weapon any day of the week. Great video. Thanks for posting.
@@sulkingsalamander6181 True, well for the most part. There's actually some hema groups but finding one and training (impossible to get swords that aren't shinken basically) is very hard.
I used to belong to the Bladesmith Society, as a junior knifemaker. To become a Master bladesmith could require as little as two years, providing your blades pass inspection. It was interesting that a bladesmith in Japan could be learning the craft for over 40 before qualifying as Master.
40 years is excessive and no longer based on actual skill, but more nebulous "cultural" standards. While it can be a way to hone the smith's attitude, it just feels like a way to put younger people into a lower hierarchy. It's honestly a huge problem with Japanese culture that the younger generation have tried and failed to change.
Heh, when I was coming up in my training in Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, foreign made replicas were used out of necessity. Most of us simply did not have access to traditionally made katana by Japanese sword smiths, so a Hanwei sword made from manchurian rail steel or the like was regarded as sufficient for our purposes. As fart as definitions go, katana was merely meant to mean a kind of sword. What Shogo here is talking about with his criteria was what was required for a sword to be a true Nihonto. Also while the torei is very important, I think the outlook on buki in general and the katana in particular is a bit more utilitarian in most of the koryu I encountered. While I've met iaidoka who regarded using an antique blade for something as base as tameshigiri as blasphemy (legit I've encountered one dude who said using a katana to cut something is like a catholic bashing a cross into a tree), my sensei used his koto for keiko and tameshigiri all the time. His teacher Sugihara Sensei used to use his wakizashi to cut open packs of squid jerky after practice.
I know people who use their antique swords (of european origin) to do test cutting with and one of them even keep a smallsword in his room and use it to poke at the wall for fun and close the door when he can't be asked to get up so yh. 😅They still love their antiques and take care of them, but have a much more playful attitude towards the items.
The whole folding stuff with tamahagane boils down to drive out impurities. In my apprenticeship I learned how to make folded and multilayered steels and we also learned why one would do the one thing or another. I see the amount of work and effort that went into the manual purification and appreciate original katana exactly for the craftsmanship and experience needed to properly perform it. Where I live we have comparably a little less tense but still pretty similar regulations on bladed objects and I absolutely get the point about such strict rules.
HI Shogo, I think I understand your point. Could I say there are different purposes for a Katana? Maybe you can compare it with Matcha, where you have different grades of Matcha. If you don't practice Tea-Ceremonie, you don't need the ceremonial grade Matcha. And so if you don't practice Iaido or other form of Katana related Martial Arts, you have an different perspective and conception of Katana. For example if I only want it for Cosplay or as a display item.
I love this video and the great care you always take in respecting everyone with their own views. I’m a practitioner of what goes by “Kenjutsu” in my country. I got my first “Katana-Style”-Sword last year and it’s been serving me well. I’m taking care to maintain it, though I’ll have to replace the Sageo ribbon and handle binding soon, I fear. That said, my sword is a tool for my sport. It has its basic beauty that I love - but it’s not a deity to me, nor is it my soul. I imagine that one day, if I get to go to Japan and purchase a real traditionally made Katana, it’ll be different. At the same time, I feel that would truly be a piece of art for me that I might never use in training, for fear of something happening to it. So it would loose the ‘tool’-aspect, for which I am at some point probably replace my current sword with a better, more beautifully made blade with a higher performance steel which tamahagane is, in truth, not. So, to me: Japanese, traditional katana are works of art that are to be treated with reverence but I could probably not handle for fear of my own incompetence, while industrial steel blades here are tools that perform well but lack in the soul-department.
Gendaito are pretty much tools to the practitioners in Japan as well since they couldn't get sharp sword anywhere else. It's the old sword that have historical values that you should never use in test cutting training since they have seen or involve in actual conflicts in the past
1. Be sharp, ok. 2. Be beautiful. I have a problem with this. Beauty is subjective, so someone could simply say a sword is not beautiful if they don't want to consider it a katana. 3. Be deified. This is basically "be a katana fanboy." Swords do not have supernatural powers, gods and magic don't exist. A katana is a sharp curved sword with a disc guard and a two handed handle. Get over it.
Like any special item like a Katana. You always must educate yourself and have to research both the maker, the seller and the specific model/object your considering.
I am sorry, but I do not agree with the 'only if made in Japan' definition for Katana; this is politically based and should be viewed as such. As a fellow partitioner of Kenjutsu and Iaido, I would relish the opportunity to test my own Katana, which I co-designed and helped to forge, against a Yoshindo Yoshihara or Sadatoshi original, or even a famous piece by say Kotetsu or Masamune. I would welcome the chance to have that kind of true test of quality. And, for the record, my own Katana meets all three of your swordsmith's definition criteria. It was also made using traditional methods from Tamahagane steel that was imported from Japan.
Sorry but I find it funny you would want to test your blade against famous pieces which would undoubtedly be more fragile after all this time, especsince those pieces are all considered true gems and the possibility of breaking one would be terrible
Rather than being politically based, I find it to be culturally based. And while it meets the swordsmith's requirements, does it also meet the 4 requirements listed near the first part of the video?
The part about the blades being imbued with a spirit is important, it's also not unique to katana. For example, ꦏꦼꦫꦶꦱ꧀/ꦮꦁꦏꦶꦔꦤ꧀ (Kris/Keris) blades from Indonesian/Fijian culture also share such properties. The book Magus of Java goes into a bit more depth in that particular blade forging tradition.
Interesting and understandable opinion from Shogo. Here in England, we Iaidoka when obtaining a sword for tameshigiri refer to the weapon as a 'shinken' which does not disrespect the legacy of the katana I feel. Perhaps the term 'katana' should be protected and preserved only for the conditions of production and reverence that Shogo lays out, similar to the nomenclature Champagne, or here in England Stilton cheese, or Melton Mowbray Pork Pies made in prescribed manner and region and protected by legislation.
I agree, however, I do believe there should be both side by side, allowing to exist together as one to keep an ancient art alive, and the other to improve an ancient legend!
The amount of deft craftsmanship going into incredibly unique materials that eventually produce a proper katana should really make everyone reconsider buying one online from “overseas”.
1. Money, because Tamahagane swords, even gendaito cost a fortune to buy and even more money to bring it back to your home country, and it will even cost another huge amount for bribery purpose to bring it across the border if your country have strict weapon laws like Japan. 2. People who practiced martial arts that see a sword as nothing but a tool and don't care about anything else about it will pick a sword made of superior steel but way cheaper.
@@outboundflight4455 lmfao yeah why save up for a house when I could blow 2k on an AuThEnTiC kAtAnA !1!1 Its 2022 and everyone with a brain has a gun, also its my money and ill spend it how I want. Cope
@@outboundflight4455 My wife said "If I have a 2000$ sword, I wouldn't use it for cutting practice, not because of religious reverence, but because I'd consider it a piece of irreplaceable art". She's not Japanese, not Shinto/Buddhist, but do practice Kenjutsu, with literal basket of sword in our room.
@@victoriazero8869 pretty much and thats in the US where you only need to consider some taxes and shipping overseas.... lets says that 2000 usd gendaito will be have 4000 usd in taxes shipping and customs for martial practice even for art appreciation is too much for me.
My dear, I am from eastern europe, former soviet block. But also Japan fan (grew up on Kurosawa films). All katanas which i have are from Spain. Katana from Japan cost me a year salary plus, get i from Japan is almost impossible. I know its not original, but 500+ USD per one katana, which is sharp and functional is OK to me. But I am happy to have it and practice with it.
Recently, I've seen a real WW2 gunto at a museum. It was owned by an army officer during WW2. I was taken aback by how ...ugly... it was. Everything about it was unpleasing to the eye...the hamon, the tsuka, the tsuba......only the curve was ok. Yet I'm sure it must be highly functional.
Pretty much, if you want "true japanese sword with traditional japanese steel" go to japan. But if you're going to go use it for self defense buy a japanese sword with modern steel. Buy a decent price one. Usually 300+ usd is better
Ehhh, your views are colored by the tradition, culture, and mythology of the Japanese katana. The truth is, from a perspective of function, the iron sand steel you guys are still using is in no way comparable to modern high carbon steels, sorry, it's just not. All that extra work your swordsmiths have to do, the repeated forging and hammering, the repeated folding, the meshing of hard and soft steels, that can all be avoided with modern steels because billets of modern steel are far more uniform in their carbon contents, and have practically no impurities. I'm not denying the skill it takes to make a traditional Japanese katana, I've seen it done, and it's truly mesmerizing. But let's not ignore the elephant in the room. You still do it that way because A. Tradition B. The history of the art form. C. It's the law in your country. Not because it's better. Modern steels are superior for making anything, including katana, from a functional perspective. You would never, for instance, want to smack a real Japanese katana against a well made L6 bainite modern katana. Your priceless Japanese katana would be destroyed, and if the L6 sustained any damage at all, so what? It can be replaced for an insignificant amount of money compared with the cost of a real Japanese sword. Again, I'm not taking anything away from the history, beauty, or tradition of a true Japanese katana. They are true works of art. But please don't be deluded into thinking they are in any way functionally superior to a well made katana made from modern super steels, they just aren't. The one thing you could say is that with modern katana, it does take a lot of experience in the industry to be able to know which ones are junk, and which ones are well made, and that does take practice and experience, as well as being able to make mistakes and learn from them. This isn't necessary with real Japanese swords as they are all regulated, appraised and strictly controlled by your government. But at what cost? The prices of true Japanese katana are astronomical compared to a well made modern katana, for a sword that, functionally speaking, isn't any better.
I'm so happy to have found you and your channel. You are my go to for any of my questions about Japanese culture and katanas. You need not apologize for your opinions....you are more than qualified to speak on these matters....thank you so much for your honesty and integrity.
@@victoriazero8869 I understand Japan’s desire to preserve their culture but it’s a shame that they don’t get to enjoy artifacts from other cultures. I could go to a museum here in the United States and see swords from all over the world but in Japan the only sword you’ll see in a museum is a katana.
@@MikeEstacio Historical Europe isn't exactly popular in Japanese media, and the same goes with pop culture. There's simply no market for 'casual sword user' there. Either you're a true practicioner, or you're not. Meanwhile outside Japan, you have a broad range of customers between mall ninja wannabe and HEMA athletes and historical reenactor fighting in battle armor.
I think this is more like a strategy by Japanese swordsmiths to keep the production of Katanas in Japan and to keep the prices ridiculously high. Yes they are beautiful pieces of art but they're not as strong or durable as one might think. Tamahagane has a lot of impurities and bad properties as a material and it's kept purposely scarce to keep it's value high as well. Modern machinery, materials and processes can do far superior stuff than traditional methods. Sure the spiritual element in the elaboration of traditional Katanas is important to Shinto tradition and to Japanese cultural identity overall, but by no means does it determines the quality of a sword as a tool to cut / kill. Edit: Not so much the swordsmiths but the sword dealers. I know for personal experience the amounts of money that are moved selling them to private collections and museums outside Japan. It's a big business and the whole certificate system keeps everything in the hands of a few people who meet the requirements.
Trust me, most Japanesd sword smiths aren't making bank. Until very recently the industry was starting to decay in Japan at a rapid rate until certain anime/manga revitalized interest in swords for young Japanese.
This is definitely another case of Japanese people thinking that their rice is superior to justify the ridiculous subsidies they pay their farmers. There's a difference between those who buy a sword to display in a case and martial artists.
Yes, modern materials and techniques can absolutely make a better sword, but not once did Shogo state anything about quality of the material or final product. As both he and many commentors have stated, it is about a desire to preserve a heritage and history. Additionally, Shogo never said _you shouldn't_ buy a foreign-made katana from a website, he said _he wouldn't_. He also very clearly stated that it was not his intention to make people think less of katana available online.
It's incredibly sad that most swords are illegal in Japan because there are some stunningly beautiful modern reproductions of European swords that exist on the market today and I think it would be fascinating to see you cut with some of them amd compare them to the Katana that you're used to. Swords like the Albion Principé and Knecht cut through a tatami mat like it's not even there.
I would love to see a video highlighting different blade design types for katana. I love Unokubi Zukuri, but I wonder if that is a traditional design or a more modern or non-traditional construction.
The U.K. has similar laws but exemptions are made for antiques. So I can buy an original British 1796 pattern cavalry sabre, but not a replica, unless I can prove it is for re enactment or historical fencing. But can you import ‘shin gunto’ if the blade is earlier and traditionally made, rather than a Seki arsenal made one? And would you need to have it shipped to you in a shirasaya?
I grew up in a household with sick parents. Mentally and physically they struggled to find their place in Americas middle class. It sounds like the definition of first world problems but my father had an advanced psychosis and my mother had reoccurring cancer. I got into legal problems and youthful rebellion eventually finding my own path to adulthood and back to taking care of them before they passed. I bring that up because my parents were too busy trying not to drown in capitalism to teach me any culture of my own. I started making a smorgasbord of my own with literature. When I was nine I read a book about a sword wielding people that wore their hair in a long ponytail, that fixated on honor. I didn’t understand that another culture was being referenced, I just took the things I loved. I became a martial arts enthusiast. I’ve dabbled for a few years in Kendo, Thai Kickboxing and jujitsu. I found a padded weapon fighting group with over a hundred people and we fought little wars every Saturday for over a decade of my life. I love and respect what you do. I will react the same way to what you’re saying though as I would to someone telling me I can’t be a true Druid or Jedi. In you’re culture I can’t, I’m having to build my own culture here because of my countries distinct lack of one. I took this a little personally because I’ve been working with metal in aerospace and have imagined using the technology available to make a piece of art that I’m understanding could never be a true katana.
While i appreciate that Japanese bladesmiths continue to perpetuate traditional blade making, I HIGHLY doubt that Japanese bladesmiths throughout Japan's history would have continued to use tamahagane if they had access to modern carbon steel and a knowledge on how to heat treat it.
Shogo I am curious, can you make a video on what you need to do when purchasing a katana. Like the weight you should look for, how long it should be, and best for cutting.
I love this and the way you explained it my grandfather is Japanese and he trained me in the art since I was 8 years old and when he died he gave me his katana so keep up the great work and I look forward to more videos
Currently waiting for my very first iaito. Luckily our sensei is a very traditional guy with deep connections to Japan and wouldn't let us go for anything sub-par. Thus already waiting three months for my iaito being made in Gifu by the Murayama workshop. And I absolutely want my sword to be from Japan and of high quality. The feeling it will serve me well for years to come is important to me. Can't wait to hold it in my hands. Mike, Prague PS: My personal problem with Tozando: As far as I can tell, they're doing their very best to monopolize and destroy the variety of Japanese traditional sword workshops, pushing other stores out of the market and using very shady practices to do it. After my current experience with my iaito (which is not bought through Tozando) I would personally not buy from Tozando anymore.
I respect so much the way you remain always respectful with other's opinions and cultures ! That tends to prove that we can be close in minds, even if distants by earth and culture. So I wonder if you would try, even just for fun, a french rapière ? I think this sword is the best in european smith art, and many testings compared it to japanese katana. I'd like to see you making such a test ! Merci 🙏
Shogo, im honestly very pleasantly surprised with your closing statement... The traditional and national pride of many japanese katana enthusiasts would never ever let them admit that there are functionally better katana being made on other countries... that said, like you pointed out, its only the intangibles that give special objects value. After all, we humans are first and foremost emotional beings. Best regards man, take care 👍
You have paid 6600cad for a KATANA?!? WOW!!! you got scamed because me in Canada i can buy one in 1095 carbon steel and have it sharpened with all the "traditional stuff" for 1500-2000cad... Oh by the way i think its realy sad that there is so much law for sword and knife in japan. Edit | Sorry it is true that a japanese katana forged in japan and forged with the "traditional steel" will cost a lot because of the cultural value of the katana
You know everyone of your videos makes me respect you more and more and I agree with everything you said. I like katanas because they are beautiful yet deadly, soft (metaphorically) but also demand respect from its user and others so keep making these videos it’s helping me learn!
Japan: Carrying a blade longer than 5.5cm in length is prohibited. Meanwhile....in Georgia Cop: Son, you got a permit to open carry that claymore? Person: Yup Cop: carry on then. Guess when you have an absolutely flooded gun market; worrying about what people do with swords is, hilariously enough, pointless.
There are some problems with this view... A Nihon To is a window to Japan's history, thus an object of art and priced as well. Not for everyone. Katana is a style of blade. As a FUNCTIONAL BLADE it must satisfy some characteristics (proper nakago, proper wood for tsuka, proper tsuka ito, proper balancing). To say a factory made sword is not a "katana" makes no sense. Is akin to saying that only guitars made by artisans are adequate to playing music. To say one would not "respect" a blade made in a factory line is also nonsense. Yes, handmade instruments (katana or guitars) tend to present higher quality, but the DO is within the practicionner, not the instrument.
We have the same system here in America to keep people safe from dangerous weapons. A full auto M16 cost over $20,000. That's why we all own simi-auto AR15's
Nearly everyone would LOVE to go to Japan and pay TOP dollar for a true jem that is the katana. It's on bucket list for me but we must make due with what we have. Can someone equate 600,000 yin to dollars for me?
If you guys want to there’s a video from Shadiversity where they test a $3000 katana but it is weaker compared to a $200 with modern forging. Basically they said that folding modern steel creates imperfections since modern steel is already refined unlike traditional steel like tamahagane that needs to remove such impurities.
Hey Shogo! I have a question. According to your explanation on what makes a katana a work of art instead of a weapon, how would non-katana swords be viewed legally? After all, all the rules mentioned only relate to the method the sword is made, not the design of the sword itself. What if a sword smith in Japan made a Viking Seax, German longsword, Indian talwar, or any other type of non-katana sword, but still used tamahagane steel, fold forged it, tempered it, and created beautiful inlays? That’s a sword that’s obviously not a katana, but still follows every single one of those regulations.
Thanks for video 🙏 However, I read The book of five rings by Miyamoto Musashi, and I support his opinion, that it is not essential to bind yourself to the concrete weapon. Much more important is to develop yourself as a warrior by the spirit, knowledge, ascetic practice and training. To my point of view the weapon (katana) is just a way to develop the spirit of warrior. But it doesn't make a warrior from a man by itself.
*Shogo,* I have a question. I am a big fan of science-fiction, especially the cyberpunk genre. Based on what you consider the qualifications for a legitimate katana to be now, what kind of qualifications do you think might there be for katanas that might be produced in several hundred years from now, in a fictional world where sword combat might be viable and popular again, from materials we might not even know existed?
I bought a katana from Kyoto 15 years ago and I've also bought swords sold online over the years. I would say that in terms of craftsmanship, the foreign versions can be equally as sharp and beautiful today. They are also produced through fold forging and have a beautiful hamon through differential tempering. However, they aren't made in Japan with tamahagane through traditional processes so it lacks that final bit of special quality.
In my personal humble opinion, there is nothing that can come close to a real nihonto. Nevertheless, I think there is a place for "replicas" and hommage swords that are produced for mass-market and lower cost. Also for 400-500 USD you will get a decent replica sword that can be used for all kinds of cutting and training experience without having to fear for your savety. Here, you should go with a type of "brand" or following the advice of somebody with expertise. Also, I would still call these swords "katana", "wakizashi", "o-dachi", "tanto" or what describes them best. Certainly they are not a nihonto, but other then that...
Wait, can you use an Antique Katana for Tameshigiri? Cause i have Antique Katana from the Edo period and Muromachi period I am just wondering if it’s possible or not.
Excellent video, I knew japanese weapon laws are very strict but I didn't know how strict they are towards bladed weapons. There's only one thing I disagree with you. Any weapon being expensive doesn't make them any safer. But for real hand forged blades high prices are a necessity for respect towards the blacksmiths and the blades themselves.
Arrigato gosaymas Shogo san, what you say is very clear. Outer of Japan they make better Katana yes but, here we will never forget to say thank you all swordsmiths in the history that they have founded a so much beatifull desing of a Katana. In my and many others' eyes, a nihonto is one of the most beautiful blades in human history. It is simply beautiful. Shogo San, you say Nihonto is not expensive if you want to stay within the law in Japan. Nihonto are expensive and this is justified because they are traditionally made, they are not mass-produced and each one is unique. We know about the manufacturing effort and production time of a Nihonto. That justifies the price. I personally respect your love for your cultural assets and I find it honorable how you preserve it. Sayonara Shogo san
Before I watch & for others, Why He Will Never Buy Katana From Websites Overseas is because he will be arrested XD and charged with embarrassing his tradition & heritage. Lets see how right I am now...
So what is the Japanese attitude, or thinking towards the Katana that were made by industrial process (I think) for WWII Japanese officers? They are not considered real Katana? Do they hold any place in Japanese history or museums?
why would you buy japanese thing from other countries than japan in a first place? i mean you probably want it cuz its japanese its like buying german beer from U.S....
3 out of 4 ain't bad. None of my katana are tamahagane, too expensive for what is (technically) an inferior steel to modern steels. If I handed you one, you would never know it was not made in Japan.
Nonsense. A Katana is only a weapon used for killing, and sword technique is only a matter of technique. All these Hagakure-esque platitudes are meaningless peace-time created virtues.. to the majority of people today, and the majority of samurai throughout history, this romanticization is the naive drivel of children. As someone who's practiced martial arts for 32 years, I'll also say that the process of acquiring skills within these disciplines, are sufficient to learn many of the lessons you're seemingly trying to gatekeep with these spiritual concepts. These are the ideologies of soft men.. poets who never saw battle. For every 100 men who share your view of the sword, there's 100 bodies on the floor. It's disrespectful to see the Katana as anything but a tool for killing.
Come to Texas my friend. You can have pretty much any blade on you in public. Of course there are certain places that you can't, but spears, swords, battle axes and such can be worn in public.
From a prospective of a pro 2nd amendment US constitution, the blade and firearm law of Japan feels like oppressions. I was disturbed by it at first, but when I realized that well trained fists are enough to take lives occasionally, I started to be indifferent toward that law. For while a criminal in Japan can punch someone to death to rob them, I could use mine to save my hide, even though I might kill the assaulter in the process, but oh well, I have to be alive to face the judges and the grand jury, eh?
Its true, unless the Katana, or Wakizashi, or Tanto, are made using the traditional ways, and certified in the national registry, online swords just dont compare. I still enjoy a finely made sword though.
More people need to see this. I believe it is very important for the authenticity of the Katana to be kept and respected. I appreciate this well done video about the topic. ありがとうございました！
Based on your opinion of what is a Katana wouldn't that make Christian, Islamic, ect sword a Katana? Those three thing you mentioned arent uniquely Japanese.
We need a middle ground that honours the Deification without ignoring the great strides that we have made in forging. The past should be honoured without yesterday's compromises. In a best world a grading system would be there for more Modern Steel and Tamahagne seperatly so that choice is a option while allowing talent to flourish. If I had one it would have to fulfill all three and the 3rd should not compromise the 2nd or the 1st because it's too precious to use Maybe even new regulations will crop up allowing for even higher quality assurances. I am of the side that people should be able to own firearms and their own weapons for self defence or stopping the transgressions of the government against its people (but that's more political)
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why is this not pinned
What's your thoughts about your county invading Indonesia in the past?, Does your country's history doesn't teaches about how your country invading a lot of place in the past?
My personal issue with the site you listed, is that the katanas start at $7,500 (they’re also custom made so I have no idea what’s going on past blade length). To be honest, I’d rather just go to Japan to get one since I’d be spending several thousand dollars plus shipping and handling.
@@lucashenry6281 I think going to Japan to buy one is more expensive.
@@outboundflight4455 Absolutely but if I’m paying $7,500 minimum, plus tax, plus shipping and handling, the sword is gonna be closer to $10,000 and I might as well go on vacation and buy a katana. Buying a cultural item and experience the culture first hand would be great value, personally.
Before starting the video itself, I'd like to preface that the only authentic Japanese Katana (Nihonto/Shinken) is hand-forged from the Tamahagane, which is a controlled resources by a certain company in Japan. Katana produced outside Japan can be either hand-forged or machine forged, but all of them are made of modern steel. Modern steel are so much better in terms of mechanical properties, but it does not have cultural value at all compared to true tamahagane blade.
Yup, if all you care about is authenticity then a traditional made Tamahagane blade will be the only thing you need. Still, if someone don't care about culture value, spiritualy, only care about having a functional sword for martial art purposes, a modern steel sword is a superior choice
Continuing from the previous post above, foreign made katana would be illegal because they're considered weapon and not a piece of art with cultural value and such. And as far as I know, Japan has no law regulating normal bladed weapons over the current limit (for example, pocket knife has to be under 2.5cm blade length)
@@victoriazero8869 I am from Finland so did i get it right. You cannot own any other sword in Japan than real Katana and your own cultural weapons? Kitchen knifes ok, but sword, dagger, combat knife and any clearly non too knives are illegal? I know gun laws are pretty hard there.
@@victoriazero8869 So where does the Shin Gunto fall into such a category? They clearly are made from Japan, but it was manufactured in modern steel with modern machine methods as well as using a cast handle.
@@firepower7017 Shin Gunto are illegal and if you found one from your grandpapa you have to hand it to police to be destroyed. And yes, other Japanese weapons are also restricted. Shogo said in the Video about 15cm blade for wakizashi and naginata but the details are unclear for me, though most Wakizashi came with Katana as bundled items anyhow (should share the same legal document).
I really love and agree with Shogo's attitude on this subject. It reminds me of a guy whose book I readwho was hugely into Harley Davison motorcycles. He basically said he liked Harley's for the tradition, the aesthetic, the spirit of the bikes, and the hobby of tinkering with them. That said, if he just wanted a quality motorcycle that worked well and needed little maintenance, he would buy a Honda because they're just objectivly better at being a two-wheeled motorized transportation.
Is the book you're talking about Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance? I've read it years ago and has a lot of great insights about life. Even though o don't remember everything I've read (hence why my question here), I highly recommend it!
@@hugoleonardoamaral586 yeah, that was it.
If rather have a broke Harley in my garage than ride anything else.
harley davidson motorcycles should be illegal. absolute noise pollution 🤮
@@JadeHarleyCoffeeMug Ironic how you have Harley in your name😂
Sentiment, symbolism, and heritage. It's feels similar to buying a custom Western era style Revolver from a Gun Smith, it's very much about preserving the legacy of a way of life as a living history.
Which is why I want both of em haha
I feel the same way taking care of my late father's firearms and reloading equipment
I understand wanting to preserve culture but from my perspective as a blade Smith it all seems so creatively stifling
The pros and cons of tradition. History is very important, but unfortunately focussing on it too much can prevent creativity and thinking outside the box.
@@domosrage5434 Trying to do it the exact way as they did in the past is the exact opposite goal of trying to think outside the box.
then dont make a katana
@@tommybrowne8759 Yep, and even katana swordsmith started to sell knives as main income
First point is totally valid .
Regarding your second point I really would like to know what you think about master smiths overseas. The first person that comes to mind is Walter Sorrells. I feel disappointed that as a person in Japan I can't order a piece of work by him just because he's outside of Japan.
How do you feel about this?
While Walter Sorrells makes good blades for the western market, he is not a licensed swordsmith. The Japanese government licenses smiths after a rigorous apprenticeship period and a functional test of making a Wakizashi. I may be mistaken but only one gaijin every achieved a license and that was Keith Austin. Kinda surprised Shogo missed the fact that only a blade forged by a licensed smith can be considered a katana.
@@midtwnscott He definitely talked about that.
@@jsullivan2112 Eh, kinda sorta more glossed over it than tackled it directly. It's part of that law which also limits the number of swords a licensed smith can produce per month - two katana; not sure about Wakizashi and tanto though. There is a movement in Japan that is slowly gathering steam to repeal the law but it's not popular to stand in open opposition to it.
@@midtwnscott He definitely touched on all those things, I’m pretty much able to put things together on my own 😂
@@jsullivan2112 He glossed over it. The certification of actual Nihonto Shinken is rigorous and thorough, and yes you can't carry it in the open. You need special carry case for it, much like guns in some parts of the world.
I see the swords and firearms law as very flawed. It needs to be opened up to allow for European swords to be considered art, and to allow for a new category of sharp steel sword made by certified swordsmiths but with modern steel. The purpose of them would be to serve katana trainees for battodo, tameshigiri, etc. without damaging an expensive art sword, and increased safety due to the modern steel. Also it will allow Japanese swordsmiths to sell in a profitable market. The reason for the existence (and prosperous business) of those websites is because there is a market demand. It should be allowed for Japanese swordsmiths to own that market instead of companies that will degrade the image of the katana.
For someone who can afford real katana and appreciate, they wont care about those websites and still only buy real katana . And for someone who cannot afford, they wont care about how "real" the katana are, they just want some toys. Conclusion, no one care about allow for a new category of sharp steel sword made by certified swordsmiths but with modern steel.
I wonder how many japanese would like to own European sword considering it has no spiritual value at all.
@@kilercola And not much in the way of historical significance either. Most won't bother, so there's no lucrative market for swords there. In contrast, Katana is popular in both historical setpieces and pop culture, so the worldwide market is huge.
it's not that flawd since european style swords are not a main concern for japanese people, even japanese trowble makers
and that is the thing about laws, they don't need to be objetive or to have intrinsic value. A law is only and only needs to be aplicable to the extents that concerns the society it is designed to serve.
@@smallfish01 I think a budget market would complement the high-end market. Clay shooters often spend $10k+ to get a hand-fitted, bespoke weapon with custom engraving made especially for them, despite the fact that they invariably start off with a
As a European, I have to stress that importing an iaito from Japan needed the same kind of license and paperwork as if it were a weapon. Including a screening by the Police. I guess it would have been even harder for a shinken. Consequently, I cannot blame people who opt for buying from other markets, if they can get past that more easily.
I am pretty sure it is hard to order lets say real hand made viking sword and own it. Seems like all other swords are considered illegal weapons. So real viking sword would cost thousands of euros to get the right permits and fill the paperwork.
@@Resident-cb3yz oh, certainly, but there are other hassles, because of the non-EU origin, I didn't get into. Like having to go through customs and associated fees.
Why do you say as a "European" the laws vary greatly from country to country inside the EU in regards to importing swords.
@@Resident-cb3yz I live in Germany and I can order and own any sword I want. I own several sharp swords. I do not own a "real" Katana by the Japanese definition, but that is due to the price.
I've heard that even nunchaku(just two sticks tied by string) is treated as a weapon and illegal in the UK.
There is so much misinformation and lack of knowledge about Japanese swords on the internet. I really appreciate Shogo making videos like this to help explain the difference between Nihonto and non-Japanese swords. For anyone interested in this topic, do LOTS of research. Buy books; don't rely on random TH-cam channels. You'll quickly understand WHY a real Japanese sword is so valuable, and how it differs from swords made elsewhere.
I blame the Japanese Sword industry and experts for not making the information more accessible to be honest
Yeah right
@@cyan_oxy6734 I wouldn't exaggerated it to the level of car prices. Right now you can buy a legitimate Nihonto for $2000+ and the market is cheap right now because Japan is hurting for money from the border closing.
@@cyan_oxy6734 Not all shinken are that expensive, it varies greatly
The rest of the world: "SWORD IS SWORD!"
Japan and weebs: Bu...but art and art and..s-spirituality...and art ofcourse...
@@tiborcsendes5269 In Europe: "Rapiers! We sell rapiers! 2 for 1 sale, come get your rapiers while they're still fresh!"
In a perfect world, a swordsmith hopes that the buyer esteems his sword as much as he does but in reality, value is ultimately in the eyes of the buyer. People buy katanas for reasons that are no less important than a swordsmith's reasons for making them and often do so at a steep personal price. We can only strive to educate people about the culture behind them and hope that others find the culture worthy of preservation.
13:45 "Traditional steel has flaws." Indeed! Tamahagane is made of an iron sand (satetsu) found in Shimane, Japan. This sand is heated and the iron melts and settles to the bottom where it is collected, heated and hammered together, but not liquefied as with modern crucible (or blast furnace) steel where impurities are skimmed away.
Tamahagane inherently has more non metallic inclusions because it's produced by forge consolidation of a bloom. Even though it's sorted for carbon content inside that bloom, and thus can have a nice hard edge, it's still going to have plenty of forge welds to get it to that stage. And the non metallic inclusions in tamahagane can lead to failure under stress where inclusions may cause a fatal stress point, or where a weld fails and opens.
May I ask why not make more katana out of more modern day steel? I daily carry knife made out of K390, Rx45, Maxima, etc. They seems like perfect steel for something like katana.
@@kevinhuang888
He explain that in the video, mUh tRadITIoN.
Kinda like how swiss lose the general clock industry to japan.
There are katana that will serve as a better weapon and cheaper available.
@@kevinhuang888 Katana! Because tamahagane = strongest steel for Katana. That's literally all you have to know jahahahahaha
@@kevinhuang888 In the words of Tevye from Fiddler on the Roof... "TRADITION!"
isnt impurities also gotten rid of by the folding process and why it was implemented? thats why i dont like the sites that say "it was folded 2000 times" because that suggests to me they were using a low quality iron that needed to be folded or they were folding it just so they can say they did because modern steels already have very little impurities or none to begin with.
I understand your points but it is still sad to see such a high barrier of entry for Japanese to do Battodo. I am sure lots of japanese people would like to try it but simply can't afford it.
I can respect the tradition and artistry of the Japanese katana in the same way I'd respect any other traditionally made weapon from some other region, and I believe that retaining the knowledge and practices for such is important. My utilitarian side, however, is more likely going to value availability($$) and edge retention which probably be more readily available in non traditionally crafted swords. This goes for western weapons as well. I'd take a steel sword over a traditionally bronze or copper weapon any day of the week. Great video. Thanks for posting.
As a hema guy and beginner swordsmith, I'm really jealous of the japanese, their traditions never died.
@@atom8248 isolation is a great way at keeping traditions alive apparently
@@atom8248 don't be too jealous considering you wouldn't be able to do hema in Japan
@@sulkingsalamander6181 True, well for the most part. There's actually some hema groups but finding one and training (impossible to get swords that aren't shinken basically) is very hard.
I used to belong to the Bladesmith Society, as a junior knifemaker. To become a Master bladesmith could require as little as two years, providing your blades pass inspection. It was interesting that a bladesmith in Japan could be learning the craft for over 40 before qualifying as Master.
40 years is excessive and no longer based on actual skill, but more nebulous "cultural" standards. While it can be a way to hone the smith's attitude, it just feels like a way to put younger people into a lower hierarchy. It's honestly a huge problem with Japanese culture that the younger generation have tried and failed to change.
“why i won’t buy foreign katanas”
-it’s illegal
“thanks for watching”
That was funny, haha.
Heh, when I was coming up in my training in Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, foreign made replicas were used out of necessity. Most of us simply did not have access to traditionally made katana by Japanese sword smiths, so a Hanwei sword made from manchurian rail steel or the like was regarded as sufficient for our purposes. As fart as definitions go, katana was merely meant to mean a kind of sword. What Shogo here is talking about with his criteria was what was required for a sword to be a true Nihonto. Also while the torei is very important, I think the outlook on buki in general and the katana in particular is a bit more utilitarian in most of the koryu I encountered.
While I've met iaidoka who regarded using an antique blade for something as base as tameshigiri as blasphemy (legit I've encountered one dude who said using a katana to cut something is like a catholic bashing a cross into a tree), my sensei used his koto for keiko and tameshigiri all the time. His teacher Sugihara Sensei used to use his wakizashi to cut open packs of squid jerky after practice.
I know people who use their antique swords (of european origin) to do test cutting with and one of them even keep a smallsword in his room and use it to poke at the wall for fun and close the door when he can't be asked to get up so yh. 😅They still love their antiques and take care of them, but have a much more playful attitude towards the items.
The whole folding stuff with tamahagane boils down to drive out impurities. In my apprenticeship I learned how to make folded and multilayered steels and we also learned why one would do the one thing or another. I see the amount of work and effort that went into the manual purification and appreciate original katana exactly for the craftsmanship and experience needed to properly perform it.
Where I live we have comparably a little less tense but still pretty similar regulations on bladed objects and I absolutely get the point about such strict rules.
HI Shogo, I think I understand your point. Could I say there are different purposes for a Katana? Maybe you can compare it with Matcha, where you have different grades of Matcha. If you don't practice Tea-Ceremonie, you don't need the ceremonial grade Matcha. And so if you don't practice Iaido or other form of Katana related Martial Arts, you have an different perspective and conception of Katana. For example if I only want it for Cosplay or as a display item.
Those are what the alloy swords are for, made of a weaker metal and not sharpened so they're effectively not weapons but still look just as nice
I love this video and the great care you always take in respecting everyone with their own views.
I’m a practitioner of what goes by “Kenjutsu” in my country. I got my first “Katana-Style”-Sword last year and it’s been serving me well. I’m taking care to maintain it, though I’ll have to replace the Sageo ribbon and handle binding soon, I fear.
That said, my sword is a tool for my sport. It has its basic beauty that I love - but it’s not a deity to me, nor is it my soul. I imagine that one day, if I get to go to Japan and purchase a real traditionally made Katana, it’ll be different. At the same time, I feel that would truly be a piece of art for me that I might never use in training, for fear of something happening to it. So it would loose the ‘tool’-aspect, for which I am at some point probably replace my current sword with a better, more beautifully made blade with a higher performance steel which tamahagane is, in truth, not.
So, to me: Japanese, traditional katana are works of art that are to be treated with reverence but I could probably not handle for fear of my own incompetence, while industrial steel blades here are tools that perform well but lack in the soul-department.
Gendaito are pretty much tools to the practitioners in Japan as well since they couldn't get sharp sword anywhere else. It's the old sword that have historical values that you should never use in test cutting training since they have seen or involve in actual conflicts in the past
L-6 banite and tool steels are superior steel for swords nowadays given the proper hardening and heat tempering
Do u want to see my Katana in fortnite?
1. Be sharp, ok.
2. Be beautiful. I have a problem with this. Beauty is subjective, so someone could simply say a sword is not beautiful if they don't want to consider it a katana.
3. Be deified. This is basically "be a katana fanboy." Swords do not have supernatural powers, gods and magic don't exist.
A katana is a sharp curved sword with a disc guard and a two handed handle. Get over it.
Like any special item like a Katana. You always must educate yourself and have to research both the maker, the seller and the specific model/object your considering.
I am sorry, but I do not agree with the 'only if made in Japan' definition for Katana; this is politically based and should be viewed as such.
As a fellow partitioner of Kenjutsu and Iaido, I would relish the opportunity to test my own Katana, which I co-designed and helped to forge, against a Yoshindo Yoshihara or Sadatoshi original, or even a famous piece by say Kotetsu or Masamune. I would welcome the chance to have that kind of true test of quality.
And, for the record, my own Katana meets all three of your swordsmith's definition criteria. It was also made using traditional methods from Tamahagane steel that was imported from Japan.
Sorry but I find it funny you would want to test your blade against famous pieces which would undoubtedly be more fragile after all this time, especsince those pieces are all considered true gems and the possibility of breaking one would be terrible
Rather than being politically based, I find it to be culturally based. And while it meets the swordsmith's requirements, does it also meet the 4 requirements listed near the first part of the video?
The part about the blades being imbued with a spirit is important, it's also not unique to katana. For example, ꦏꦼꦫꦶꦱ꧀/ꦮꦁꦏꦶꦔꦤ꧀ (Kris/Keris) blades from Indonesian/Fijian culture also share such properties. The book Magus of Java goes into a bit more depth in that particular blade forging tradition.
Spirits aren't real so there's no need to worry
@@alskarmode Spoken like a mall ninja wanabe
yes, but not Japanese Spirit!👅🦗
Udah bang klo ngomong sama mreka yg *stingky weebs* emang susah n ngeselin
Interesting and understandable opinion from Shogo.
Here in England, we Iaidoka when obtaining a sword for tameshigiri refer to the weapon as a 'shinken' which does not disrespect the legacy of the katana I feel.
Perhaps the term 'katana' should be protected and preserved only for the conditions of production and reverence that Shogo lays out, similar to the nomenclature Champagne, or here in England Stilton cheese, or Melton Mowbray Pork Pies made in prescribed manner and region and protected by legislation.
Not a bad idea.
Well, I don't have much of a choice, Buying one online is LITERALLY the only way I can even get a knockoff cheap Katana.
I agree, however, I do believe there should be both side by side, allowing to exist together as one to keep an ancient art alive, and the other to improve an ancient legend!
keep going with these awesome videos
Katana, often imitated, but never duplicated. Excellent tutorial. Aloha from Hawaii.
With proper technique u can cup tatami with even a sharpen kitchen knife.
There are shinto shrines outside Japan...
The amount of deft craftsmanship going into incredibly unique materials that eventually produce a proper katana should really make everyone reconsider buying one online from “overseas”.
1. Money, because Tamahagane swords, even gendaito cost a fortune to buy and even more money to bring it back to your home country, and it will even cost another huge amount for bribery purpose to bring it across the border if your country have strict weapon laws like Japan.
2. People who practiced martial arts that see a sword as nothing but a tool and don't care about anything else about it will pick a sword made of superior steel but way cheaper.
@@jaketheasianguy3307 tamahagane Nihonto even gendaito are going for $2000 and up now. Just save for it
@@outboundflight4455 lmfao yeah why save up for a house when I could blow 2k on an AuThEnTiC kAtAnA !1!1
Its 2022 and everyone with a brain has a gun, also its my money and ill spend it how I want. Cope
@@outboundflight4455 My wife said "If I have a 2000$ sword, I wouldn't use it for cutting practice, not because of religious reverence, but because I'd consider it a piece of irreplaceable art". She's not Japanese, not Shinto/Buddhist, but do practice Kenjutsu, with literal basket of sword in our room.
@@victoriazero8869 pretty much and thats in the US where you only need to consider some taxes and shipping overseas.... lets says that 2000 usd gendaito will be have 4000 usd in taxes shipping and customs for martial practice even for art appreciation is too much for me.
Why not? Because they're better than "authentic" katanas?
My dear, I am from eastern europe, former soviet block. But also Japan fan (grew up on Kurosawa films). All katanas which i have are from Spain. Katana from Japan cost me a year salary plus, get i from Japan is almost impossible. I know its not original, but 500+ USD per one katana, which is sharp and functional is OK to me. But I am happy to have it and practice with it.
Recently, I've seen a real WW2 gunto at a museum. It was owned by an army officer during WW2. I was taken aback by how ...ugly... it was. Everything about it was unpleasing to the eye...the hamon, the tsuka, the tsuba......only the curve was ok. Yet I'm sure it must be highly functional.
Pretty much, if you want "true japanese sword with traditional japanese steel" go to japan. But if you're going to go use it for self defense buy a japanese sword with modern steel. Buy a decent price one. Usually 300+ usd is better
The Tsuka-ito of the blade in the middle at 7:24 is beautiful. Patterned cord is pretty rare from what I've seen.
Ehhh, your views are colored by the tradition, culture, and mythology of the Japanese katana.
The truth is, from a perspective of function, the iron sand steel you guys are still using is in no way comparable to modern high carbon steels, sorry, it's just not.
All that extra work your swordsmiths have to do, the repeated forging and hammering, the repeated folding, the meshing of hard and soft steels, that can all be avoided with modern steels because billets of modern steel are far more uniform in their carbon contents, and have practically no impurities.
I'm not denying the skill it takes to make a traditional Japanese katana, I've seen it done, and it's truly mesmerizing. But let's not ignore the elephant in the room. You still do it that way because
A. Tradition
B. The history of the art form.
C. It's the law in your country.
Not because it's better. Modern steels are superior for making anything, including katana, from a functional perspective.
You would never, for instance, want to smack a real Japanese katana against a well made L6 bainite modern katana. Your priceless Japanese katana would be destroyed, and if the L6 sustained any damage at all, so what? It can be replaced for an insignificant amount of money compared with the cost of a real Japanese sword.
Again, I'm not taking anything away from the history, beauty, or tradition of a true Japanese katana. They are true works of art.
But please don't be deluded into thinking they are in any way functionally superior to a well made katana made from modern super steels, they just aren't.
The one thing you could say is that with modern katana, it does take a lot of experience in the industry to be able to know which ones are junk, and which ones are well made, and that does take practice and experience, as well as being able to make mistakes and learn from them.
This isn't necessary with real Japanese swords as they are all regulated, appraised and strictly controlled by your government. But at what cost? The prices of true Japanese katana are astronomical compared to a well made modern katana, for a sword that, functionally speaking, isn't any better.
What companies would you suggest to buy a sword form?
Okay.
I will get a claymore then.
This is like saying you shouldn’t by whiskey outside of Britain or violins outside of Europe or something, ie borderline nationalism.
japan? nationalist? perish the thought!!! 😂
Do you approve of Thaitsuki Katanas?
Isnt exporting katanas to Japan like smuggling coke into Mexico?
It would be like smuggling Taco Bell into Mexico
I'm so happy to have found you and your channel. You are my go to for any of my questions about Japanese culture and katanas. You need not apologize for your opinions....you are more than qualified to speak on these matters....thank you so much for your honesty and integrity.
Hey Shogo, if a person in Japan wants to collect European style swords is there any way for them to import them or would that be illegal?
Very illegal
@@victoriazero8869 I understand Japan’s desire to preserve their culture but it’s a shame that they don’t get to enjoy artifacts from other cultures. I could go to a museum here in the United States and see swords from all over the world but in Japan the only sword you’ll see in a museum is a katana.
@@MikeEstacio Historical Europe isn't exactly popular in Japanese media, and the same goes with pop culture. There's simply no market for 'casual sword user' there. Either you're a true practicioner, or you're not. Meanwhile outside Japan, you have a broad range of customers between mall ninja wannabe and HEMA athletes and historical reenactor fighting in battle armor.
@@victoriazero8869 they can’t participate in HEMA but they have lowriders and cholo culture in Japan 😂
I think this is more like a strategy by Japanese swordsmiths to keep the production of Katanas in Japan and to keep the prices ridiculously high. Yes they are beautiful pieces of art but they're not as strong or durable as one might think. Tamahagane has a lot of impurities and bad properties as a material and it's kept purposely scarce to keep it's value high as well. Modern machinery, materials and processes can do far superior stuff than traditional methods. Sure the spiritual element in the elaboration of traditional Katanas is important to Shinto tradition and to Japanese cultural identity overall, but by no means does it determines the quality of a sword as a tool to cut / kill.
Edit: Not so much the swordsmiths but the sword dealers. I know for personal experience the amounts of money that are moved selling them to private collections and museums outside Japan. It's a big business and the whole certificate system keeps everything in the hands of a few people who meet the requirements.
Trust me, most Japanesd sword smiths aren't making bank. Until very recently the industry was starting to decay in Japan at a rapid rate until certain anime/manga revitalized interest in swords for young Japanese.
This is definitely another case of Japanese people thinking that their rice is superior to justify the ridiculous subsidies they pay their farmers. There's a difference between those who buy a sword to display in a case and martial artists.
Katana doesn't sell like wine and should not. Swordsmiths are barely surviving in Japan.
Yes, modern materials and techniques can absolutely make a better sword, but not once did Shogo state anything about quality of the material or final product. As both he and many commentors have stated, it is about a desire to preserve a heritage and history.
Additionally, Shogo never said _you shouldn't_ buy a foreign-made katana from a website, he said _he wouldn't_. He also very clearly stated that it was not his intention to make people think less of katana available online.
By the thumbnail i can see it's about to get serious
such a shame for the tight laws would love to see you holding a German kriegsmesser
It's incredibly sad that most swords are illegal in Japan because there are some stunningly beautiful modern reproductions of European swords that exist on the market today and I think it would be fascinating to see you cut with some of them amd compare them to the Katana that you're used to. Swords like the Albion Principé and Knecht cut through a tatami mat like it's not even there.
I would love to see a video highlighting different blade design types for katana. I love Unokubi Zukuri, but I wonder if that is a traditional design or a more modern or non-traditional construction.
The U.K. has similar laws but exemptions are made for antiques.
So I can buy an original British 1796 pattern cavalry sabre, but not a replica, unless I can prove it is for re enactment or historical fencing.
But can you import ‘shin gunto’ if the blade is earlier and traditionally made, rather than a Seki arsenal made one?
And would you need to have it shipped to you in a shirasaya?
I grew up in a household with sick parents. Mentally and physically they struggled to find their place in Americas middle class.
It sounds like the definition of first world problems but my father had an advanced psychosis and my mother had reoccurring cancer.
I got into legal problems and youthful rebellion eventually finding my own path to adulthood and back to taking care of them before they passed.
I bring that up because my parents were too busy trying not to drown in capitalism to teach me any culture of my own.
I started making a smorgasbord of my own with literature. When I was nine I read a book about a sword wielding people that wore their hair in a long ponytail, that fixated on honor. I didn’t understand that another culture was being referenced, I just took the things I loved.
I became a martial arts enthusiast. I’ve dabbled for a few years in Kendo, Thai Kickboxing and jujitsu.
I found a padded weapon fighting group with over a hundred people and we fought little wars every Saturday for over a decade of my life.
I love and respect what you do. I will react the same way to what you’re saying though as I would to someone telling me I can’t be a true Druid or Jedi.
In you’re culture I can’t, I’m having to build my own culture here because of my countries distinct lack of one. I took this a little personally because I’ve been working with metal in aerospace and have imagined using the technology available to make a piece of art that I’m understanding could never be a true katana.
Your country has a culture like it or not. And you are made by that culture
While i appreciate that Japanese bladesmiths continue to perpetuate traditional blade making, I HIGHLY doubt that Japanese bladesmiths throughout Japan's history would have continued to use tamahagane if they had access to modern carbon steel and a knowledge on how to heat treat it.
this video literally completely changed the way I look at and feel about the katana, thank you.
Heck, it made me seriously reconsider how I view the the spadona I use for HEMA; this was a solid video all around!
Shogo I am curious, can you make a video on what you need to do when purchasing a katana. Like the weight you should look for, how long it should be, and best for cutting.
My katana is made from 5160 spring steel and will do me just fine during the zombie apocalypse.
I love this and the way you explained it my grandfather is Japanese and he trained me in the art since I was 8 years old and when he died he gave me his katana so keep up the great work and I look forward to more videos
Currently waiting for my very first iaito. Luckily our sensei is a very traditional guy with deep connections to Japan and wouldn't let us go for anything sub-par. Thus already waiting three months for my iaito being made in Gifu by the Murayama workshop. And I absolutely want my sword to be from Japan and of high quality. The feeling it will serve me well for years to come is important to me. Can't wait to hold it in my hands. Mike, Prague
PS: My personal problem with Tozando: As far as I can tell, they're doing their very best to monopolize and destroy the variety of Japanese traditional sword workshops, pushing other stores out of the market and using very shady practices to do it. After my current experience with my iaito (which is not bought through Tozando) I would personally not buy from Tozando anymore.
I respect so much the way you remain always respectful with other's opinions and cultures ! That tends to prove that we can be close in minds, even if distants by earth and culture. So I wonder if you would try, even just for fun, a french rapière ? I think this sword is the best in european smith art, and many testings compared it to japanese katana. I'd like to see you making such a test ! Merci 🙏
Shogo, im honestly very pleasantly surprised with your closing statement...
The traditional and national pride of many japanese katana enthusiasts would never ever let them admit that there are functionally better katana being made on other countries... that said, like you pointed out, its only the intangibles that give special objects value. After all, we humans are first and foremost emotional beings.
Best regards man, take care 👍
While I tend to agree, I do believe that every sword has a soul and a destiny... not always glorious naturally
But can you purchase a Katana from a Japanese Site (as an Outlander) and have it shipped to Europe?!
You have paid 6600cad for a KATANA?!? WOW!!! you got scamed because me in Canada i can buy one in 1095 carbon steel and have it sharpened with all the "traditional stuff" for 1500-2000cad...
Oh by the way i think its realy sad that there is so much law for sword and knife in japan.
Edit | Sorry it is true that a japanese katana forged in japan and forged with the "traditional steel" will cost a lot because of the cultural value of the katana
You know everyone of your videos makes me respect you more and more and I agree with everything you said. I like katanas because they are beautiful yet deadly, soft (metaphorically) but also demand respect from its user and others so keep making these videos it’s helping me learn!
Ok it may sound like a lot but 1000000 JPY is just under 7 grand. 🤷🏽♂️I know what I’m doing and where I’m going if I’ve got 10,000 USD
Japan: Carrying a blade longer than 5.5cm in length is prohibited.
Meanwhile....in Georgia
Cop: Son, you got a permit to open carry that claymore?
Person: Yup
Cop: carry on then.
Guess when you have an absolutely flooded gun market; worrying about what people do with swords is, hilariously enough, pointless.
Hello .I come from malaysia.i like KATANA sword because very shrap and beutifull sword
There are some problems with this view...
A Nihon To is a window to Japan's history, thus an object of art and priced as well. Not for everyone.
Katana is a style of blade. As a FUNCTIONAL BLADE it must satisfy some characteristics (proper nakago, proper wood for tsuka, proper tsuka ito, proper balancing).
To say a factory made sword is not a "katana" makes no sense. Is akin to saying that only guitars made by artisans are adequate to playing music. To say one would not "respect" a blade made in a factory line is also nonsense.
Yes, handmade instruments (katana or guitars) tend to present higher quality, but the DO is within the practicionner, not the instrument.
We have the same system here in America to keep people safe from dangerous weapons. A full auto M16 cost over $20,000. That's why we all own simi-auto AR15's
Nearly everyone would LOVE to go to Japan and pay TOP dollar for a true jem that is the katana. It's on bucket list for me but we must make due with what we have. Can someone equate 600,000 yin to dollars for me?
If you guys want to there’s a video from Shadiversity where they test a $3000 katana but it is weaker compared to a $200 with modern forging. Basically they said that folding modern steel creates imperfections since modern steel is already refined unlike traditional steel like tamahagane that needs to remove such impurities.
Hey Shogo! I have a question. According to your explanation on what makes a katana a work of art instead of a weapon, how would non-katana swords be viewed legally? After all, all the rules mentioned only relate to the method the sword is made, not the design of the sword itself. What if a sword smith in Japan made a Viking Seax,
German longsword, Indian talwar, or any other type of non-katana sword, but still used tamahagane steel, fold forged it, tempered it, and created beautiful inlays? That’s a sword that’s obviously not a katana, but still follows every single one of those regulations.
Thanks for video 🙏 However, I read The book of five rings by Miyamoto Musashi, and I support his opinion, that it is not essential to bind yourself to the concrete weapon. Much more important is to develop yourself as a warrior by the spirit, knowledge, ascetic practice and training. To my point of view the weapon (katana) is just a way to develop the spirit of warrior. But it doesn't make a warrior from a man by itself.
*Shogo,* I have a question.
I am a big fan of science-fiction, especially the cyberpunk genre.
Based on what you consider the qualifications for a legitimate katana to be now, what kind of qualifications do you think might there be for katanas that might be produced in several hundred years from now, in a fictional world where sword combat might be viable and popular again, from materials we might not even know existed?
I bought a katana from Kyoto 15 years ago and I've also bought swords sold online over the years. I would say that in terms of craftsmanship, the foreign versions can be equally as sharp and beautiful today. They are also produced through fold forging and have a beautiful hamon through differential tempering. However, they aren't made in Japan with tamahagane through traditional processes so it lacks that final bit of special quality.
If I lived in Japan I wouldn't either... I mean... It's like living in Italy and buying imported pasta.
I can't deify an object. According to my faith, that would be idolatry and would be very sinful. I like swords, but I'll never do that.
In my personal humble opinion, there is nothing that can come close to a real nihonto. Nevertheless, I think there is a place for "replicas" and hommage swords that are produced for mass-market and lower cost. Also for 400-500 USD you will get a decent replica sword that can be used for all kinds of cutting and training experience without having to fear for your savety. Here, you should go with a type of "brand" or following the advice of somebody with expertise. Also, I would still call these swords "katana", "wakizashi", "o-dachi", "tanto" or what describes them best. Certainly they are not a nihonto, but other then that...
Wait, can you use an Antique Katana for Tameshigiri? Cause i have Antique Katana from the Edo period and Muromachi period I am just wondering if it’s possible or not.
Excellent video, I knew japanese weapon laws are very strict but I didn't know how strict they are towards bladed weapons. There's only one thing I disagree with you. Any weapon being expensive doesn't make them any safer. But for real hand forged blades high prices are a necessity for respect towards the blacksmiths and the blades themselves.
Arrigato gosaymas Shogo san, what you say is very clear. Outer of Japan they make better Katana yes but, here we will never forget to say thank you all swordsmiths in the history that they have founded a so much beatifull desing of a Katana. In my and many others' eyes, a nihonto is one of the most beautiful blades in human history. It is simply beautiful. Shogo San, you say Nihonto is not expensive if you want to stay within the law in Japan. Nihonto are expensive and this is justified because they are traditionally made, they are not mass-produced and each one is unique. We know about the manufacturing effort and production time of a Nihonto. That justifies the price. I personally respect your love for your cultural assets and I find it honorable how you preserve it.
Sayonara Shogo san
ok. not everyone has the luxury of buying them direct from japanese blacksmiths/masters, but ok.
Before I watch & for others, Why He Will Never Buy Katana From Websites Overseas is because he will be arrested XD and charged with embarrassing his tradition & heritage. Lets see how right I am now...
No jdm no buy.
So what is the Japanese attitude, or thinking towards the Katana that were made by industrial process (I think) for WWII Japanese officers? They are not considered real Katana? Do they hold any place in Japanese history or museums?
why would you buy japanese thing from other countries than japan in a first place? i mean you probably want it cuz its japanese its like buying german beer from U.S....
3 out of 4 ain't bad. None of my katana are tamahagane, too expensive for what is (technically) an inferior steel to modern steels. If I handed you one, you would never know it was not made in Japan.
I would love to buy one from a japanese swordsmith, but i cannor fly to japan, have one made, and fly it back to my country. You know, flight problems
In short, you only need DEX to handle a overseas sword. But one made by a japanese blacksmith has FTH scaling. Got it
"Why I will never buy Katana from Websites Overseas" top answer: You don't have to! You can just nip to the corner and grab one.:😁
It is against Japanese Law to export sharpened sword. Where do you think we should buy Katana? Osaka and smuggle it out of Japan?
Nonsense. A Katana is only a weapon used for killing, and sword technique is only a matter of technique. All these Hagakure-esque platitudes are meaningless peace-time created virtues.. to the majority of people today, and the majority of samurai throughout history, this romanticization is the naive drivel of children. As someone who's practiced martial arts for 32 years, I'll also say that the process of acquiring skills within these disciplines, are sufficient to learn many of the lessons you're seemingly trying to gatekeep with these spiritual concepts. These are the ideologies of soft men.. poets who never saw battle. For every 100 men who share your view of the sword, there's 100 bodies on the floor. It's disrespectful to see the Katana as anything but a tool for killing.
Come to Texas my friend. You can have pretty much any blade on you in public. Of course there are certain places that you can't, but spears, swords, battle axes and such can be worn in public.
From a prospective of a pro 2nd amendment US constitution, the blade and firearm law of Japan feels like oppressions. I was disturbed by it at first, but when I realized that well trained fists are enough to take lives occasionally, I started to be indifferent toward that law. For while a criminal in Japan can punch someone to death to rob them, I could use mine to save my hide, even though I might kill the assaulter in the process, but oh well, I have to be alive to face the judges and the grand jury, eh?
Its true, unless the Katana, or Wakizashi, or Tanto, are made using the traditional ways, and certified in the national registry, online swords just dont compare. I still enjoy a finely made sword though.
More people need to see this. I believe it is very important for the authenticity of the Katana to be kept and respected. I appreciate this well done video about the topic. ありがとうございました！
Based on your opinion of what is a Katana wouldn't that make Christian, Islamic, ect sword a Katana? Those three thing you mentioned arent uniquely Japanese.
could you give an example of traditional characteristics of each swordsmith style? 😮
We need a middle ground that honours the Deification without ignoring the great strides that we have made in forging. The past should be honoured without yesterday's compromises. In a best world a grading system would be there for more Modern Steel and Tamahagne seperatly so that choice is a option while allowing talent to flourish.
If I had one it would have to fulfill all three and the 3rd should not compromise the 2nd or the 1st because it's too precious to use
Maybe even new regulations will crop up allowing for even higher quality assurances.
I am of the side that people should be able to own firearms and their own weapons for self defence or stopping the transgressions of the government against its people (but that's more political)