Why Don’t We Put Solar on ALL Rooftops?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2024
- Can Solar Rooftops Power the World? Secure your privacy with Surfshark! Enter coupon code UNDECIDED for an extra 4 months free at surfshark.deal... Growing the world’s renewable energy capacity has always been a delicate balancing act, and one of the many plates we have to spin during that act is land use. Utility-scale solar and wind parks are rapidly expanding in size and prevalence all over the world. But it’s not just NIMBYism that complicates the creation of clean energy - it’s serious environmental and social concerns, too. When are the negative impacts of siting these massive projects worth the benefits? When are they not? Could rooftop solar single-handedly provide us all the energy we need while avoiding legal hassles and ecological consequences? Do we have enough space for solar?
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One advantage of rooftop over utility scale that I don't see mentioned much is albedo. When you darken parts of the Earth that directly warms it because more energy from the sun is absorbed instead of reflected. This is a big reason why the ice caps melting would be very bad. They act as mirrors that reject a lot of energy from the Sun. Roofs tend to be dark anyways so darkening a roof warms the Earth less than darkening a desert which typically is quite reflective. The ocean is also pretty non-reflective so putting panels there is also better in this way.
They all pique my interest. Doing more than one of these will greatly increase production.
I see numerous solar farms, but never saw sheep or cattle there. I spoke to a sheep farmer: Because the grass is partly shaded it has less nutritional value. Also, they need to be able to see the animals, in case one is injured or sick. They cannot see them if there are panels.
It's so sad to see people such as yourself hawk trash like VPN's at people.
@@ninefox344 True, so long as the IR/heat is converted it gets used in other uses and thus it lowers the heat that gets release back into the environment. A 100% efficient panel (impossible) would be cool to the touch even if it was sitting in the sun for hours. The real take would be from road/parking lots where a lot of that heat is abosed and release back into the environment. Even at current 30% - thats still 20-30% less heat that would be release back into the environment. More then likely dropping the temp around those areas by 5-10 cooler for cars and people.
If not roof tops, just cover the open car parks :)
Other countries are doing this, and it's been going well
And highways Ala South Korea
A lot of supermarkets in Portugal are doing this - Previously they used to provide sun canopies to protect the shoppers cars from overheating - as they replace the canopies with solar canopies the Supermarket gets the power generated : excess is fed back into the grid. - win-win
@@jlmaster1 Yes and in hot weather you will not be climbing into an oven on the way back.
The Cincinnati Zoo has solar Panels over every parking lot.
I'm visiting Florida, where shaded parking is at a premium as it rarely exists. So, it boggles my mind that the Sunshine State doesn't make all parking shaded with solar farms.
I'm guessing either hurricanes or politics
@@rp9674 politics, in FL anything dumb is always politics.
It's not politics, but simple business optimization. Putting panels over parking lots makes sense only from an ecological point of view and from a comfort point of view. On the business side, it only increases cost. You have to either own the land of the parking lot, either you need to pay the owner part of your production (vs buying cheap land away from constructed areas), maintainance would be a few times more expensive and it would be limited by the context, also impacting the overall production. It introduces damage risk by the public, it introduces liability in case something fails damaging the public. All these added up to an already slow return of investment in a product that decays over time.
I don't live in Florida, but pretty sure any shade would be welcome.
Of course it's not free, but all those points apply to most aspects of business. Initial cost, liabilities, insurance costs, maintenance cost, cost cost
@@euteo property tax incentivized wasted land. The owner of the land has no incentive to make the land more productive while they hold it for long term capital gains.
In Southern California some forward looking businesses like Kaiser Permanente cover their parking lots with solar. This is fantastic because not only are they getting dual use out of land, the shade keeps cars cool. I think parking lot solar should be everywhere.
Agree.
Especially when you'll use part of that energy to charge the parked cars. There are too many charging spots without solar panels to keep both the car cool and produce energy for the cars.
I think car parks are best underground.
@@john4flying true, but the reality on the ground doesn't match the utopia.
@@evancombs5159 In USA, maybe... in Europe most parking lots are underground, or at least a big part of it. Below the facility.
But at least we can have them "under solar roof"
I live in South Australia. We had massive government feed in incentives 10+ years ago to get people to adopt rooftop solar. It has worked great for our state with some days over 100% of our power coming from renewables....
South Australia has made significant strides in renewable energy, with solar power playing a substantial role. As of recent reports, solar power contributes significantly to the state's electricity grid. For instance, rooftop solar alone can supply up to 26.3% of South Australia's energy needs during peak production times, sometimes accounting for as much as 92% of local demand during the day.
In total, South Australia has around 2 gigawatts (GW) of solar PV generating capacity, which includes both rooftop and large-scale solar installations.
The state's efforts have led to remarkable achievements, such as a continuous period where wind and solar met 100% of local electricity demand for over 10 days.
This impressive integration of solar power into the grid has positioned South Australia as a leader in renewable energy adoption in Australia and globally.
Arent they trying to now tax your excess power and make you pay instead of you getting paid? Mabye that was England.
Out of curiosity
Is there much in the way of storing that electricity for night use?
I saw a video, probably a month ago, I believe for either Australia or New Zealand. I probably have the details wrong, so I will just say that the gist of the story was people who had invested in rooftop solar were suddenly getting massively screwed over and penalized for it.
South Australia's success in personal investment in roof top solar is that too much is being generated during the day causing over voltage issues and solar being cut off from being fed into the grid. So if you're living in SA and only now thinking of Solar, the payoff might isn't as great as it used to be. It probably needs the community battery idea to take off so that excess daytime power is fed into that.
solar is scam, Its bad for planet., its better to use swales and ponds and check dams and lakes and reservoirs, cultivate water and use water for turbine power, water is one of the best forms of energy and its clean eco friendly too for planet.
Way back in the late 70s when my brother was getting into early rooftop solar panels, we couldn't have imagined that people would cover fields with them, in favor of them being on every modern roof across the world.
Thank greed and central planning
@@Preciouspink No. It's because people are put off by the up-front costs and hassle of installing solar, even though it will save them money in the long run.
@@bhabbott the people covering fields with solar panels and people installing rooftop solars on their homes are not the same people. the fields of solar panels is a capitalist venture, it's about making as much money as possible with the smalles investment, not about what is practical or causes the lesser impact.
@@bhabbott Another issue is too many newer-built homes (think DR Horton, amongst many others) can hardly support their own roofs, never mind snow and/or solar panels.
@@bhabbott
You say that...but the absolute best batteries last about 15 years. Control equipment to balance the power and convert it to AC costs the same as the battery bank, and the panels themselves last about 30 years or so and become less efficient over time, so you need to buy a bit more than what you think you need to compensate for that over the years, and they cannot be overhauled, repaired, or even recycled.
You say that about the "upfront cost" like it's no big deal, but all the equipment together costs about 20,000 to 40,000 dollars.
My electric bill is only about $200/month. That would take 5-10 YEARS to recoup that huge upfront cost, and this is factoring in ZERO maintenance costs, which are a thing that no one ever thinks about.
The energy hitting my roof right now is not being collected. All it is doing is making my AC work harder. If all roof top solar did was off set my AC electrical usage it would be a net positive. I recently saw a video with someone (who was most likely in the pocket of big energy) complaining that the excess energy produced from California roof top solar was just going to waste. Like what was happening to that energy before roof top solar? Anyway, excess energy generated by roof top solar is more an opportunity than a problem.
I have installed panels on the roof of an off grid cabin. They are all tilted a few degrees to encourage air flow. I did that to improve the panels performance in the heat, but in addition they provide shade and passive cooling for my roof in summer. An unexpected bonus.
Yes, a great simple joy is to have your roof not only totally cool down your house in a heatwave with so much power for A/C, but also export surplus power onto the grid to help your neighbors and the grid at large! It's so obvious!
I hope we can move to solar covered parking lots and that paint that reflects 99% of solar radiation on roofs.
My rooftop solar was far easier to get setup than I expected. My condition's aren't ideal and I can't cover 100% of my power usage every day, but it does certainly offset the majority of my usage. The main restriction for me was the shape of my roof doesn't really lend itself to a very large array.
I could cover more than my usage and return a bunch of power to the grid but I'm not allowed to by my utility provider. They have been getting better though which is a good sign.
@@sambira You can always produce and store energy semi-off-grid, which does not require utility provider involvement or permission. For example, I run a portion of my home from what is essentially an off-grid system. As a DIY project.
The only provisio is that I have a battery charger (powered from the grid) setup to support the loads when the battery gets too low (mostly only happens during winter). Even during winter, the batteries hold enough energy to load-shift the utility consumption later into the evening's off-peak period.
The fun thing about doing something like this is that you can build as small or large a system as you like, since any deficiencies will still be covered by the grid. So start small to get your feet wet and expand from there!
-Matt
the same for my roof panels. I live in southern Ontario where winter also play a role - short days and sun lower in the sky. I must sell excess during the summer, and recoup some of that in the winter from the hydro company.
We haven’t even scratched the surface of warehouse rooftops for solar. There is a lot of area there to use. A lot!!
Warehouse roofs are often the flat polyurethane foam and membrane/tar style. At least in colder climates. It's pretty hard to bolt down something into foam without it blowing away in the wind and damaging your very expensive roof.
Here in Australia we have the highest uptake of domestic solar panels in the world. One thing that is becoming more evident is that to make the most of domestic solar they need to be coupled with batteries, wether owned by the household or a local community battery. There is also a lot of work to be done on the regulations around feeding power from the panels and batteries into the grid.
There is a lot of evidence that agri-solar combinations have great benefits in a hot dry country like Aus
I asked the grid operator if I can send my power to a battery the neighbour would install because he cant get solar because of trees and neighbours mcmansions. I was told no.
I'd love to see solar+battery become standard for all new construction (whether residential, commercial, or industrial).
@@jasonrhl you could, if he had an ecoflow portable batteries.
@ericfrancis7816 the price of batteries that don't catch fire are currently probhitative
@@chasindigo I guess you can walk around the block to deliver the batteries. Id rather just put a copper wire over the fence :)
11:35 The term is YIMBY for "Yes In My Back Yard"
I love solar and renewables. But I'll never understand using good farm able land when we have roof tops and ugly parking lots everywhere. Every large parking lot should be required to have solar installed over top of it in the US. The cars get covered parking, and we get electricity. It's a win win.
I have no problem with using good farm land for solar as a co-habitant - just another part of the normal land use rotation - if for the fallow/grazing years that field has panels over it or not makes no great difference to the soil or farm produce generated for instance. It is only when you are putting a real priority on the electricity over the farming it doesn't make sense to me - if that farmland and the food wasn't needed the best move is returning it to a more bio-diverse natural state...
Snowplow truck obstacle course
It will work swimmingly in Detroit or Chicago. Those panels would last less than 24 hours due to theft.
@@foldionepapyrus3441 Plants require sun to grow, so being permantly in the shade won't make it grow very well
Welcome to capitalism where any good idea gets destroyed to squeeze the most money possible out of it. The only reason they are put on farmland is that they create more money than the stuff that literally feeds us
The problem is with crooks in rooftop solar. My brother was one of them. I invested in his solar sales and installation company and learned quickly that companies raise the price because financing companies charge an average fee of around 25% to finance the project. It's called "chop" in the industry, and finance companies don't want you to know this fee exists. Then the sales company increases the system price by the amount of government tax breaks you may be getting. A system that should cost around $3 per watt installed is sold for $4 or $4.50 per watt. And the sales person has an incentive to push it higher because their commission goes up. I ended up splitting away from my brother and his company because he was ripping people off. That said we installed solar on our and it's a great investment. It'll be even better once battery tech and state laws advance enough to allow us to totally disconnect from the grid.
I went DIY and saved like 80%, those solar crooks are really destroying the potential more then anything else.
Solar panels and batteries on every home would help (some) with the infrastructure problem, too. Generate most of the power "on-site" and you don't need better transmission lines than we have now.
Yes and No - the power demands are so often growing and battery capacity is never able to get large enough to cover the longest dull days - so you will still get the times when 200 miles away it is sunny in excess and yet here for you and all your near neighbours it is so overcast you might as well not have bothered having solar right now... The transmission lines will still really need some serious upgrades in most nations, especially those that are also moving away from natural gas powered water and home heating - the demand for electrical energy is heading way up. But I do agree more local generation will reduce the amount of upgrades the grid will require, and for many folks you can probably end up pretty darn close to if not entirely self sufficient - I'd still say get a grid connection as at least you can push excess back to the grid and probably get some financial return, and should your system ever fault out hopefully you still have power.
@foldionepapyrus3441 can also consider the smaller viable vertical wind systems to be paired up with solar, as most times when solar is ineffective for production of power, there are winds which can be leaned into. Most residential properties have either: a) room for a telephone pole diameter unit to be placed, or b) rooftop eaves, gables, or corners where the smaller units can be mounted, which also benefit from higher wind speeds due to the building created obstruction to natural wind patterns.... something about Bernoulli or Venturi, can't recall which.
@@jmac507 I agree, though really small scale wind doesn't tend to really be very effective and wind is much more location dependent. So for most domestic properties probably not worth it, but when you do have a good location its another useful tool that can improve the average output of your personal renewable energy generation.
Huge batteries aren't and shouldn't be a part of solution IMO
@@foldionepapyrus3441 Yes, as the world transitions to electrification, the grid must be expanded as all those exajoules of energy get put through electrical lines.
But on-site solar generation will really help blunt the impact. Every watt generated locally is a watt that doesn't stress a distant power plant to generate nor the grid to transport that watt. There's easily enough rooftop and parking space in places like Los Angeles to run the entire county on solar energy alone annually.
Based on my own experiences, an average detached home with solar and battery can fairly easily run 80-percent or more of its annual kWh demand on solar + battery. Imagine how much load is taken off the grid as more homes, apartments, and businesses adopt solar and battery en masse? It's only a small percentage now but growing.
Furthermore, rooftop solar starts creating a _distributed power architecture_ which is inherently far more stable than the current monolithic/centralized one. This is especially of concern in an increasingly volatile world both from climate change and increasing geopolitical polarization & conflict.
But, yes, a grid-tie solution using the grid as a backstop in case battery is depleted or you exceed your inverter's max power output is necessary for now. But one does have to pay the minimum connection fee that most utilities impose even if one didn't pull any power from the grid in the billing period.
Use parking lots, ever see a Walmart parking lot, they're huge, they could generate power for the store and provide shade for the cars underneath, the could also be potential charging stations for EV's plug in when you go in to shop
My concern would be driver skills (in any parking lot)...and potential cost in replacing often poles and panels when those happen. But I'm sure there is a way to mount them on concrete !
Disneyworld parking lots need to be covered with solar! Also, the parking lot tram cars need to switch to electric instead of smelly diesel.
@@Atheos2015 i know what you mean here but how many times have you seen someone run in the the light pole in the Walmart parking lot. me personally i aint. but i have see a lady run in to the cart return station twice trying to park next to it.
Here in The Netherlands providers are now charging people for overproduction of solar which is fed back into the grid, because we have so much solar. The grid, which is very modern, can't handle the amount of extra power on those days. For a long time people were paid for overproduction. A drastic change and every new home today is built with solar included.
The same is happening in some states of Australia, and others have very low feed in tariffs.
Can't they sell it to the neighbour countries? Or make electricity cheaper in these pick periods which would stimulate to use more electircity during that time.
Growth in EVs should soak up the excess.
If your grid was really "very modern" it would be able to store energy for future use....
Same in europe, if you use solar to reduce your bill, power companies will do everything to get the same amount of money out of you regardles
I've always thought that every public school in America should be covered in solar panels. The panels would reduce electrical costs to the school, and when school is not in session that extra power is fed back into the grid, providing a nice refund back to the school district. Sure there are up front costs and can't do it all at once, but it's a completely win win situation.
Also, keeping the sun off the roofing materials extends their lifespan.
Yes, and post offices, prisons, etc. Just do 30 a year and see what happens in 5 yrs.
Schools are also a great opportunity to get rid of those disgusting diesel powered busses and get some electric busses. The busses operate once for about an hour in the morning, sit in a garage for about 8 hours, then operate once for about another hour in the afternoon before parking again for 12 hours or more. They're sitting around for plenty of time to be charged with easy level 2 charging, and they aren't driving all that far just to pick up or drop off kids so range is definitely not a problem. And with solar on the school, charging them would be free.
Other places that should always be covered in solar panels: all the warehouses, all the big box stores and "Super Walmarts", any malls that still exist, and pretty much any other large building that's going to be there for a long time.
Especially since schools are generally not used in the summer and a majority of the power could be sent to the grid during the sunniest months.
The local college near me wanted to do this and people freaked out because most panels are made overseas 😅 So they wanted an option for nearly 40% higher cost for panels to be made closer to local.
Hey Matt! I am a PhD student and I study the expansion of utility-scale solar and dual-use applications (agrivoltaics). Thanks so much for making this video! I love to discuss with people about the land use tradeoffs between residential and utility PV. I’m glad that you mentioned context dependency - this is a huge point that I stress in my research. Solar MUST be developed to fit the context of the region, both physical and cultural.
Also: the opposite of NIMBY is either “Please in my backyard” (PIMBY) or “Yes in my backyard” (YIMBY), straight from the literature! :)
What would be examples of it not fitting the context of the region physically and culturally?
Are there studies on the environmental impact of manufacturing that many tons of solar panels? The mining of the rare earth metals involved. also, the disposal of that many tons of materials after the lifetime of the panels? What about the geopolitics of giving China so much money and control over the world's energy needs?
I'd be interested in learning more about that.
@@jmchez There are plenty of studies on the environmental impact of solar panel manufacturing! You just have to use a nifty tool called Google search, and you'll find them!
The carbon footprint of a panel is "reimbursed" in around 2.5 years in Northern Europe, and as short as 1.5 years in Mediterranean countries, and even less in CA, AZ, NM or TX. As panels have been by now proven to last in excess of 25 years, you can easily see how carbon efficient they are!
Solar panels are not to be disposed of at end of life, but recycled. In the EU, for example, it is illegal to dispose of them at all... no land-filling allowed!
You are obviously correct that China has now taken the lion's share of the solar panel market... but that was not always so. I remember a time, 15-20 years ago, when Germany was the world leader. Bad policies have let that glorious opportunity go down the drain. Can it be regained? Doubtful though, but what is the alternative? Use fossil fuels Europe is also dependent upon, not from China, but from a very few other countries... not much more dependable?
@@Al-cm8ny Yes, there are! Solar panel farms situated in very sunny alpine valleys in Switzerland have been attacked by an environmental and landscape preservation organisation. The Swiss people had very recently (last June 9th) to vote on the subject, and has accepted the government's law in favor of renewable power generation (overwhelming 68.72% majority), which a referendum from that environmental organisation had filed against said law.
As someone who lives in Indiana (about 46º north latitude) and installed solar panels on just 20% of my available roof surface area facing **SOUTHWEST** (notice that SOUTH is best for my latitude) due to tree coverage at the time... I can say that about 1/4 to 1/3 of my utilities can be covered every year by solar power just from 20% of my roof covered with a total of 15 panels with a 370w max rating.
These receive just over 5 kilowatts of energy at maximum sunlight exposure in the summer months.
If I were to cover the rest of my roof in these panels (assuming 370 watt panels are the best we ever come out with), I would be looking at being able to provide all the heat and A/C and appliance/electronic needs for my home just from the solar panels - with possibly enough left over to partially or completely charge my EV.
EV charging aside, the typical home (when designed properly and limited to a single story) should be able to be 100% self-sufficient with a roof that is filled with panels (or, ideally, solar shingles at 50% coverage).
It's a pipe dream... and hopefully geothermal will be a better option for multi-level homes and especially areas like Seoul where tall buildings with very limited surface area at the top would have no chance of using solar to provide anywhere near the amount needed to self-sustain.
Still, we need to figure out *SOMETHING* - we literally can't just keep pulling energy out of the ground in the form of oil and gas forever...
Re cutting electricity bills, a lot depends on how much you're prepared to put yourself out, ie doing certain jobs when the sun is shining.
an option especially for north america: solar cell covered open parking lots.
they are already easily accessible, people want to park in the shade, EV-drivers want to charge their cars.
another overlooked area: the grassy areas between runways on larger airports. sure, if there is a bad runway excursion, the panes will be broken, but these things happen rarely.
honestly, if everything is done correctly, there will be enough solar energy production, that it is somewhat sufficiant during winter times. which means, during summer, it's way too much, might attract businesses, that are so energy hungry, that even running for half a year on very cheap solar power, and shutting off during expensive times, could be economically viable.
Well with the runway panels, they would also have to make sure they aren't tilted in a way that would cause glare to blind the pilots 😀
Its MUCH more expensive to cover a parking lot vs an open field. You have to build steel structures taller than trucks and strong enough to withstand getting hit by cars.
Pretty sure it’s a bad idea to lock in parking lot land use by building solar over it. Those lots need to be turned in to housing.
Think it could be used as barrier fencing as well. It increases privacy, can shade the yard without being too opaque, make it hard for doggies to escape and increase utility. Plenty of places where it can work that is hyperlocalized, which also reduces electrical loss.
@@trogdor20X6 Even if you just built solar covers over actually used parking in big box stores, as well as their roofs, it would create a lot of area for PV panels. My question would be do solar panels on top of a parking spot cover the carbon footprint of building the structures? Currently these structures are typically steel, since it is so much cheaper than aluminum. But, it seems like we ought to build these out of recycled plastic. Then when it fails after 20 years, then land fill them.
I live in a “hail corridor” in Colorado in the US, and have seen an unexpected maintenance cost to PV rooftops: the panels survive just fine, but the roof around them gets trashed. All of the panels have to be taken off for the roof replacement and re-installed afterwards, adding $10k to the replacement. You can pay more for insurance to cover it, but it is more maintenance cost. I’m planning to put PV on ground-mounts at our mountain cabin to decouple the roof maintenance from the array’s maintenance.
If you have the space, it seems easier to set up a ground array than rooftop (I’ve installed two rooftops’ worth before, but no ground ones yet-wish me luck!)
The term you are looking for is YIMBY, it’s already in use.
Came here to say this. For those wondering, the Y stands for "Yes," making it "Yes In My Backyard."
I just commented this, you beat me to it!
Had to make sure this comment was here and give it a boost.
Yup yup yup! Re 11:36, I was about to say the same thing. Though I will point out that YIMBY often gets used in a somewhat specific housing-related context, which I guess wouldn't apply here? Still, I don't know why that needs to be.
In MA here, too. Oh the stories we could tell, having worked with a willing energy developer who is converting a fossil fuel peaker power plant in West Springfield to storage and renewables. They have the capital, they have a sustainable business plan. From approval to operational is estimated to take about a year, but what's holding it all up? Interconnection study and now that the study has cleared ... drafting of the interconnection agreement! So far, we're looking at about a year and a half delay and ISO New England is still dragging its feet.
Yeah I live on a high population island so it's standard putting solar power on roof tops & to cover parking area. The USA has massive parking lots (Walmart Nebraska furniture mart Costco Disney etc). So it's always baffled me solar was put in the wild instead of in the city where the power is needed anyway lol
It's probably cheaper to install solar covering a field than a parking lot.
Look at all the opportunities on US military bases!
@@RunaroundAtNight but then you have to run power lines back to the city which isn't cheap. It makes more sense to cover Disney's parking lot with solar panels & then let Disney power there millions of watts they need for everything at the park during the day & dramatically decrease demand on the grid, especially during a hot summer day.
Look in Google Maps, there are SO many industrial, commercial or office buildings, many of which are just flat roofs, not to mention parking spaces, sports or governmental buildings. If you converted them alongside typical adoption of solar on personal homes, you'd already easily have enough solar power for peak times to be 100% of need for electricity (in some countries like Germany they are already getting to that point), at which point you need to think about more than just putting up PV anyway. A few more heat based solar farms in deserts to produce more into the evening perhaps, but mostly wind, wave, pump hydro, etc.
If they need to be forced for that to happen, then maybe they should.
Instead of building solar farms in fields, meadows and cut forests for it. A much better spot is parking lots. With the added benefit it offers a roof and shade for people/cars in that parking lot. And those big parking lots are usually next to big users of power when those panels produce like big stores. shopping centres and airports...
Building over people's heads mean greater safety margins and much heavier structures therefore there have to be strong financial incentives. Also some inputs such as cement have a large carbon footprint and are not recyclable. In many ways rooftop is superior. There is no way to get around single-driver automobiles being a major contributor to climate change.
Its MUCH more expensive to cover a parking lot vs an open field. You have to build steel structures taller than trucks and strong enough to withstand getting hit by cars.
@@poochyenarulezIf the Amish & Mennonite supermarket in Amish country 40 miles away from me with a population of 300 can build a massive solar parking lot, Walmart can build a massive solar parking lot too.
This is America. We may tolerate laziness and excuses from rich people, but we absolutely don’t applaud and accept them.
@@cameronf3343 of course they can. I never once said they couldn't. I said its much more expensive.
@@cameronf3343 how did Amish afford permitting or were they allowed to skip permits like their other structures?
Matt, enjoy your show immensely.
Just a thought on the discussion. I believe a deep dive into the discussion finds it’s not rooftop vs. utility scale solar, it’s more about property owners and communities vs. the monopoly utility. For the first time in over a century, there is real competition for who/where you get your energy. As prices drop for solar, it becomes more apparent that personal and community pencils out economically and certainly is a much better land use. So we have rooftop solar, property owners, but we also have parking lots, canals, walkways, freeway intersections, and so many other good locations within our built-up environments. These areas when organized together can certainly support more than 50% of the needs in almost any community, and in many 100%. As community solar takes off, it looks to be the most cost effective solution out there, as the scale if done in an organized fashion makes it reasonably competitive with the utility scale, it doesn’t require the additional infrastructure of utility scale solar, and, most importantly, it can easily be combined with community battery storage as well, which puts it over the top as a solution that improves on the reliability of the grid, is as economical as utility scale because it doesn’t require large amounts of additional infrastructure and there are no land cost, and it has almost no impact on land use/environment.
If we were starting from scratch and politics weren’t involved, community solar with local battery storage is both the economically and environmentally solution almost everyone would choose.
p.s. Los Angeles County has 200 square miles of parking lots and the State of California only needs 100 square miles of solar panels to supply all the State's energy needs.
Dear China: please send us 100 square miles of solar panels ASAP. Bill to Gavin Newsom, Sacramento, CA. Thanks,
All of the ones you mentioned are good. I really like the panels over canals because in the desert where canals are commonly found they actually help preserve water. One you didn't mention is solar panels over parking lots. It is a lot of flat open space and I wish were something that were more common. People love parking in the shade so why not under solar panels? This would be similar to rooftop solar as transmission costs would be negligible. It could also have some added benefits of making cars less hot in the summer and potentially save kids lives if they are accidentally left in the car.
It was a good video until he missed that but mentioned pavement, which has been utterly debunked as worthless many times.
I live in southern California, and in my area, the county government center and several school districts have large PV arrays covering their parking areas. PV arrays over parking lots has vast potential, is land that's already in use, requires no environmental impact studies, and as you mentioned helps keep vehicles cooler which reduces wear & tear on them as well. I haven't seen any downsides to parking lot PV yet.
@@dionh70Only downside that I see is that you will need some metal pillars to sustain the weight of the structure the solar panels are mounted onto which can be an inconvenience for driving around the parking lot, but the benefits definitely outweigh the disadvantage.
They could be used to power the EV chargers in the carpark. Making and selling your own fuel, right on site.
@@alexandruilea915 It should be easy to cantilever them out over the parking stalls from posts running down the center of the stalls, and they would be completely out of the way.
in the USA the parking lots around super markets or Malls are huge often 2-8 times the area of the market himself so the energy potential is here.
15m² for a parking lot 7,5m²=1kWp
15÷7,5= 2kWp
11x2 = 22kWp now you can use it and calculate the potential energy harvest capacity
YIMBY - Yes In My Back Yard
@@urbanblocks2698 been hearing this one for years.
Here in Florida I'm thinking we can cover our parking lots. At mid day leaving my car parked for more than an hour results in the temp inside getting dangerously hot and it stays hot for a long time after the AC is turned on. Long enough that I get heat sickness from driving in it. And yes, I cover my windshield, it's not enough. Covering the parking lots would probably even save lives.
Please explain how building a solar farm can "soak up" enough water to threaten the viability of local water supplies. I don't see the connection. How is water used when building a utility scale PV installation?
Two things in particular come to mind:
1. A lot of concrete is needed for the footing of solar panel racks. Concrete is very water intensive.
2. Solar panels greatly lose efficiency in too much heat, and therefore are often liquid cooled in the climates that just happen to be the most sunny+dry. Much of that coolant would be comprised of water, which is easier to extract locally than to ship it in.
I believe the idea is cleaning the panels with water. There are certainly more water efficient ways to do this, but it's true, like you're gonna need around a liter of water per square meter per week, just like a farm though.
@@yourbrojohno A litre per square meter per week is an absolutely ridiculous estimate of the quantity needed to clean PV panels. Think about home roof top mounted PV panels. How often are they cleaned? Never is the usual answer. They get rinsed when it rains.
If your "gonna" estimate water requirements in this extreme you will never get a reasonably accurate assessment of the costs associated with PV panels
We need more Tesla-style solar roof shingle systems on the market. Bring that price down with competition, scale and product mastery. Because solar “panels” on the roof of a house are plain old ugly. C’mon architects out there, make it happen!
@@Toastmaster_5000 What the hell is it about PV panels that make people lose their minds.
1. The amount of concrete used in footings pales into insignificance if you compare it to fully covering the area as in a car park or if a multi story building is being erected.
Then think about the concrete in dams used for hydro generation. Footings for PV panels is insignificant.
2. Again thinking of roof top PV panels, I've never heard of them being water cooled.
Perhaps the engineers should just let the panels warm up during the day, wear the decrease in efficiently and preserve what has been recognised as a valuable resource, water.
Matt, take a look at PARKING LOT solar. About 11 years ago, I was able to add a large solar array over an overflow parking lot at the nonprofit nature center I ran. It was extremely popular and became the favorite area for hikers to park. Since this installation, cost have come down drastically for panels and I've seen wide ranger in the additional costs for elevated arrays (we elevated high enough to park school busses beneath it). Compared to the cost of the array, elevating above the parking lot was not that much..
This is *exactly* what I've been saying. Particularity once we get more efficient panels, our homes could power our factories.
Others place to consider: Above parking lots & highways.
There are numerous unused places to put panels in urban and suburban locations. Example - here in Austin we have hundreds of rainwater runoff catchment basins. These are intended to briefly hold rapid rainwater runoff from parking lots to filter sediment and pollutants before it enters lakes, creeks and streams. It also allows the water held to be sprinkled back over the landscape to percolate back into local aquifers. These basins are empty most of the time and do not have trees in them, just grass. I think they would be ideal places to cover with panels. Dual-axis tracking panels on pylons set into the basins would also work to provide clearance over the ponds and nearby trees etc. Might be easier to cover an empty basin that never has people in it than a parking lot.
Solar can power the mid-latitudes. The higher, +/- 50° not so much. Winter comes.
Best wishes all.
@@carlthor91 depends on what part of the world you’re referring to. North America: sure. Europe: absolutely not. There are extensive, effective solar installations in Northern Europe. While snow can obviously limit times of effectiveness (what snow we still get), lack of extreme heat makes solar more efficient (a problem in the lower latitudes).
@@TheCow798 Cooler equals more solar production. Lower sun angle equals less.
North Europe has tax laws that skew the economics. Sort of industrial welfare.
Wind or DEEP geothermal, would be more efficient, without the tax incentive.
I'm smack in between two ~500 mW hydro sites, so no issues over power, here.
Best wishes from Northern Manitoba.
@@carlthor91 yep, solar in Northern Manitoba is probably not the best haha. I’m a huge proponent of geothermal heat pumps for pretty much everywhere. Aside from high initial cost, they are beyond durable and extraordinarily low maintenance, lasting 30-40 years before the system needs to be replaced.
@@TheCow798 I'm talking DEEP geothermal, the type drilled by full size oil rigs, to generate power.
The think tank RethinkX has demonstrated that solar panels were effective and economic as far north as Southern Alaska (ca. 60° of latitude)! It does not leave much human population further north! But yeah, that leaves much of winter with little solar-generated energy!
I've seen a couple of options that offer up vast land area for solar farms. One is directly over highways. They only need to provide as much clearance of the overpasses already in place. And, even there, I'm sure movable solar panel supports can be installed to deal with extremely high loads when they occur. The other are large parking lots - shopping centers, theme parks, etc. It provides shade and hail protection for cars, as well as a renewable power source for those power-hungry facilities.
This idea is the most sane regarding to all this going green since the past decade. I never understood what is the benefit of moving solar panels far away from homes, onto fields and in exchange they tried to put vegetable farms on the rooftops.
i see what you mean, but re: farms on rooftops and solar in fields.. the people are under the rooftops, and it costs a lot less to move an electron than a vegetable.
Exactly and a lot of the solar panels that were manufactured in China seem to fail after a couple of years. They have huge fields of solar panels that are not even operational, and even worse, leaching heavy metals onto the topsoil. It's a huge problem over there that's being heavily covered up and suppressed.
My understanding is that economies of scale means that installing say, 100 000 PV panels in one big field at the same time has a lower per panel installation cost than doing say a 1000 panel installation on 100 different buildings.
I know that the cost study in Germany was that rooftop solar costs roughly 3 times more than free standing solar. And with costs being a big factor in electricity production it doesn't surprise much that cheap free standing solar is done way more than costly roof solar.
For a private house owner it still makes sense, he can pay 30c/KWh to get it from the grid or pay 10c/KWh to produce it himself.
Put having costs of 10c/KWh and have to compete with 3-4c/KWh of free standing solar... that's not feasible.
I'm not sure why the cost difference is so high, if it's the less ideal position on the roof, the more work hours needed to put it on the roof, the lower scale or that you need extra mounting gear to put in on the roof in the first place, but the cost difference is quite high.
Oh and there is enough land available. a) Because you don't need to put it on farmland in the first place and b) in Germany you would need something like 2% of the total farmland to have enough solar power for the whole country (to have so much solar power like the goverment plans to build (~350GW) not to power the whole country purely on solar).
Solar panels are very sensitive to the angle of incoming light and shade. Not all homes are well situated to maximize light gathering. In a field you can angle the panels however you need.
i totally agree that we should have incentives to cover the box stores and schools with panels since they already have large feeder lines going into them. My self installed home system uses micro inverters and it is a no hassle way to take advantage of my lines already connected to my home with only a meter change required. Parking lots could be next but would require a powerline to be added as would agrivoltaic systems but this would be better then to just covering land we haven't built on yet.
I know this is a pipe dream but I wish profit didn't control Everything and we could see a wide spread social project where all buildings got solar onto their roofs.
I've been on the other end of the stick, where government just paints with a broad brush and you end up being forced to comply on your own property with something that won't work for your scenario and ends up being very disruptive. Forget about capitalism and politics for a minute, what would you do with people that dont want to participate on this wide spread social project? Are you even going to analyze their cases and hear their reasons? What if they make sense but you need to run wire and infrastructure through their land nonetheless for the project to work? Are they going to get pointed at with weapons if they don't comply?
Recently, I heard an interview with a California power supplier saying that the amount of residential solar PV panels is causing them some load problems, in that a power plant that needs to run somewhat uniformly is the input the power company has control over, but not the numerous residential PVs. Yes, some places have a power company with on/off control over residential PV, tho that is not common.
It helps ease the load of people install panels with battery systems
@@royce9018 True. And apparently most people do not. As I did not in 2006 when I bought a system for $24,000 which with a battery bank of 10 kWh would have doubled my expenses, an amount beyond my means.
"For one thing, as they’re being built, solar farms can soak up a lot of water - thousands of acre-feet’s worth. In some areas, that means these construction projects threaten the water supply for locals who rely on aquifers, which are difficult to monitor and preserve. Unfortunately, the same areas that have lots of sunshine to spare also have limited water resources to live." Can you provide more detail about this aspect please? Examples of such? Thanks
The Fast Company article cited for that segment: "Solar farms are booming in the California desert-but they could make the drought much worse." Grist has also done reporting on this.
Matt, I'm really glad I stumbled across your channel. You address a lot of major concerns and some of the coolest new tech.
One of my personal goals is to have a few acres some day, with a metal building for storage and work space. My personal dream is to have enough space to orient said metal building in such a was as to have the entire Southern surface covered in PV panels, as well as a few panels for the collection of thermal energy. I want my little slice of heaven to be completely self-sufficient when it comes to energy consumption. In fact, I've decided that a shed roof for the entire 40'x60' building will be in order to maximize the benefit of that Southern exposure!
In doing so, I can feed the excess electrical back into the grid, as well as never having to shovel snow or spread salt to defeat ice by having radiant heat sidewalks and parking surfaces, in addition to all of the hot water I could ever need.
Thanks for doing what you do, and keep up the good work!
Haz
Thanks!
Thank you!
-Matt
I have a sunny spot on my apartment patio that gets about 4-6 hours of direct sun per day, depending on the season. Picked up a 600W solar panel and 4kWh battery, and get 1.4-1.8kWh of power out of it every day.
In Arizona; yes. In Alaska: no. Location, location, location.
Alaska has lots of sunlight in summer.
@@peterhoz yeah but summer lasts for like 45 days lmao
We have a lot of solar energy production in Finland. I myself have installed 250 kWp of panels this year alone. Same latitude as Alaska and it works really well.
@@peto22 do you think you guys up north require maybe some more battery capacity if you get crappy weather for like 3-4 days straight?
@@ezforsaken We do not install batteries. It is not financially viable here. Electricity is quite cheap here, approx. 0.14€/kwh on average, and we use a lot of it because there is no gas distribution network here. The batteries would have to be huge, but we don't get a significant benefit from them when the price of electricity is low.
I live near a high school.
Walking though the playground back during lockdown I thought the massive south facing roof which is currently covered in metal cladding would be a prime candidate for a solar array.
Power the school & presumably generate massive amounts of export during holidays/weekends
For 30 years I have advocated that everyone has their own power system at their own location. Every location has its own unique benefits and demands when it comes to energy consumption. In turn each requires individual solutions. A mixed usage of renewable sources such as solar wind geothermal etc.. A rethinking of how and what we build also needs to be revised. It's not a one size fits all solution
If we just installed over the spaces set aside for car parking, that would produce a lot of energy and keep cars cooler or less snow-covered.
Floatovoltaics also has another significant benefit. Recent research has demonstrated that the evaporation of water is not just thermo-activated, but also photo-activated. So covering a lake or reservoir will slow down water loss to evaporation. Oh, and fish love the shade provided, too.
In the Netherlands, without any storage of solar power, there are too many panels. However storing it is pretty cheap and easy. Storage is like 2000 EURO per 15kWh, and a 5kW inverter that can store and retrieve power from that (MPII 5000+a GX or MPII5000GX) is 800 euro...1000 euro. This allows upgrading your AC solar inverter into offgrid mode if it respects the M(icrogrid)50(Hz) or M60 standard.
So for less than 3000 euro you can upgrade your solar setup with local storage.
And better: you don't need to have solar panels to help solar generation: A lot of others are generating solar energy already. In next day pricing that means during the solar high the prices are extremely low or even negative, and you can store this power in your battery to help the grid shed the excess load. During the evening you can use it or even send it back and get paid for it.
So yeah: too much solar, excess power during the summer.
In the netherlands the battery also helps with storing excess wind power. Because wind power is very cheap and there is a lot of it during the winter. But just like solar it is not predictable.
So again: you can help the community and your own wallet by storing excess power from the grid, provided you use next day dynamic pricing.
How cheap, I've bought 2.5kWh LiFePO4 battetries from China for 600 Euros roughly.
As others mention, car parks and flat commercial roofs would provide a lot of production with virtually zero disturbance. What I don't understand is why the electric utilities are not all in on owning and maintaining on site panels, which would speed up all permitting and interconnect problems and ensures they have a long term business model.
because spreading out the panels like that is much more expensive. It's scales of economy, the more panels in one spot the easier\cheaper it is to install, maintain, and replace them. I don't have figures, but I imagine grid connections to large scale solar farms is still a lot cheaper than installing\maintaining a equivalent amount of panels all over the place.
this is something i have been advocating for YEARS, ever since solar really became a thing on roof-top scale. not even homes. i see places like my local large stores and gas stations are a great place for roof-top solar.
take just about any a gas station in the US. they all have this big roof over the pumps and more often than not the building itself has a flat roof. cover those in solar panels then use that power for hydrogen generators and bang not only are you creating cheap power but now you are producing something that can be sold (that is if we move more towards Hydrogen powered vehicles)
as for the stores well that is simple enough. with the amount of roof space they often have compared to the relatively lower power usage (especially if they move to LEDs for their lighting) most stores could produce a good bit more power than they use. remember than any power that goes back into the grid is that much more power that doesn't need to come from coal.natural gas or nuclear plants.
you even have solar Glass (windows that can produce power) those can go all over these big skyscrapers turning them into power towers.
of course solar can't cover our entire power needs so there will always be need for alternates for if nothing else when the weather bad or its dark out but every little bit helps. the reason we constantly see the big solar farms is more because the power company wants ALL of the profits and doesn't want any other person or business o be creating their own power. my response to that is then why don't you simply put those same panels of the roofs of your costumers and instead of a bit electric bill you just charge them a cheaper flat "maintenance" fee instead.
In Australia our roof top solar take up is so common that it produces too much power for the grid to handle. They are about to introduce a 'tax' on the excess power houses feed into the system between 10:00am - 3:00pm. We'll be charged for any excess power we feed back to the grid between those times.
Had a middle income suburban house in Houston. Got Solar panels in the house roof and we had many days where we generated more power than we could use in a day. The excess was sent to Utility company who paid for it. On avergage, including shady days, we averaged about 87% of our power needs (which includes running central AC in the deep south)
In Australia the possibility of rooftop solar providing a significant portion of the electricity power needed for the country is definitely the best move forward. It made sense with coal-fired power plants for them to be far away from residential areas with transmission lines feeding the electricity in; because no one wants a power plant next to their house. But no one minds solar panels on their rooftops. Bringing the electricity source closer to the consumer makes a lot of sense. That's something we're trying to actively push through our channel 🙂
Yep solar is the most obvious choice for Australia and for many other countries. The only thing that's missing right now is the infrastructure to store the energy, large scale batteries.
@@brianguyenedits ... or pumped hydro, which happens to be cheaper to store energy than batteries, and does not require centralised production (and its unavoidable output limitations) and more or less rare resources. Most countries in the world have plenty of suitable pumped storage as an... Australian study demonstrated!
I live near Michigan State University. I drive past their large commuter parking lot almost every week. A few years back, they installed solar panels over the rows of parking. Power from the sun and element protection for the cars and commuters. This seems like such a simple dual use solution that could be quickly deployed all across middle America, but I never hear about it on channels like yours.
YIMBY has been a term for a long time: Yes, In My BackYard.
I am excited about a solar project near me that will cover overgrazed, degraded land in a light-industrial zone with a small grid-scale PV installation. If done to plan, it will improve the quality of the landscape for wildlife and repair a riparian are that cattle more or less destroyed. It’s a win-win, but there are some local NIMBYs who are afraid they might see it from their decks.
Being from a highly agricultural area, agrivoltaics is probably the most intriguing development in solar to me. Less water usage for plants, ability to grow certain species without hoop houses or other coverings, and power production all year round. I can't think of many farmers that wouldn't appreciate less water usage, longer growing season (for non heat tolerant crops), and the ability to generate money even when the crops aren't producing.
I was on a bike ride recently and rode past a brand new development, houses side by side baking in the sun and not a single roof with solar. Not sure how practical it is, but it seems to me solar panels could be incorporated into our building codes. Perfect opportunity to complete the installation when the house is under construction.
Honestly, Solar should only be allowed to be put on land that is already disturbed. Any land used for farming, or forestry should be off limits!
If you have to cut down one of the largest carbon banks(trees) to use solar then you don’t need solar.
Nearly all land is "already disturbed". Look at a land-use graph of the U.S. before you start complaining about where solar is being put up. Oil and gas, cattle grazing, farming. These all use vastly more land area than solar ever will, by orders of magnitude.
Given the option, I would cover every roof and parking lot in America with dual cycle solar panels. Solar PV with a water jacket on the back side to capture thermal as well. This improves the efficiency of the PV portion and also allows capture of hot water for heating or hot water use. I am currently trying to get this installed on the new fire and EMS station my department is building.
I'm curious to see how much full coverage of combined cycle panels will offset. This will also diversify the power grid and make it more redundant. I do not see the benefit from having large generation stations with large long distance transmission lines requiring substations. Let's generate the power right where it's needed and being used. This will reduce the level of infrastructure needed to maintain the grid. Micro wind can be incorporated around the perimeter of the roofs as well for further generation.
In furtherance of the diversification of the grid, it's past time to start building and installing small modular thorium reactors across the country. We could place one at every current power substation around the country. This will make the grid much less fragile and more responsive to local loads and demands.
We have solar on the roof of our house, and there's one drawback that seems minor but actually has a measurable impact on our production: They're well-nigh impossible to clean. When they get coated with dust or pollen, we don't have any reliable way to rinse them of. We're on a well and our water pressure is decent, but with our hose we can only reach a few of the panels, and that only rinses off the loosest of coatings. We understand a power washer would damage the panels, so that's out. The panels were on the house when we bought it, else we'd've probably opted for ground-mounted solar. Any suggestions for keeping hard-to-reach panels clean?
In the UK they use a long hollow plastic pole with brushes / soft pad on the end with the water running up inside the pole. They sometimes use pumps to get sufficient pressure if the local water pressure isn’t enough. They are available from that large on line retailer.
Every single house built in the modern day should have a solar+battery system installed by default. It just makes sense. We could completely eliminate the need for power plants entirely. It would add 30-40k minimum to every house, but we've done that out of thin air over the last 4 years, so why not add actual value to the house that would make buyers independent and safer from power outages?
Roof top panels if correctly installed protect the roof, don’t involve using the grid - unless you want to feed in energy. Adding batteries stops the waste of energy too.
My uncle worked on solar most of his life lectured all over and was based at ASU. today with efficiency at 20% +, rooftop solar has enough capacity to cover almost 2/3s of domestic energy use for the entire US.
In midwinter?
No. Mostly because the power companies won't allow it. And they kinda have a point - they'd be responsible for all the power line and distribution system maintenance without being able to charge per kWh. If they were a little less greedy, they'd support "solar islands" - neighborhoods of rooftop solar that supply only themselves, maybe a few hundred houses and a nearby factory or two. It would help with the grid issues, and lessen the evening surge when people get home from work. But it would mean less income for them, which means it'd probably have to become a publicly owned utility. Which would lead to (even more?) corruption, degradation, and breakdown. As you can see, I have SO much faith in humanity - especially governments.
Texas power grid is actively seeking houses that can be improved efficiency-wise as well as putting solar on the roof. The idea is to reduce the electric load on the grid as much as possible, and also use individual houses to supplement the power grid. Their pricing plan guarantees a fixed monthly power bill for the next 30 years, and monitoring of the panels to make sure your home is producing enough to offset the usage costs. They'll even replace faulty ones or add new ones if your demand is higher.
Here's an example from Japan: when building our house on a shoestring budget we over-insulated compared to standards (which are low compared to the US), designed the house to reduce summer sun intrusion, and bought the best windows we could afford (B grade). This allows us to keep the house at a "comfortable" 75-80F using a single heat-pump (outdoor temps are 85-95 and humid) and keep our monthly electricity costs to less than $200 in a 100% electric house. Some friends were shocked that we didn't include solar in our initial plan. The reason is that in the current environment, ¥150-160 to the dollar, few builders using the latest tech, and import tariffs, the payoff period is 12-14 years. We're confident that waiting for the next gen panels will reduce our ROI considerably.
One thing that I just learned in that in my area of California they now require a monitored fire alarm for any residential lithium battery storage system.
Home battery systems are switching away from NMC batteries to LFP ones which, if heavier (which is of no importance in stationary applications), are considerably cheaper and present a much reduced fire risk... which is anyway smaller than that of a home fireplace or wood stove! Having said this, a fire detector and alarm is anyway a cheap and good idea!
@@st-ex8506 "monitored" doesn't sound cheap.
@@geirmyrvagnes8718 it may not sound cheap to you but it is most reasonable for the peace of mind it gives you. One such device saved my house last November when a faulty (because of chimney sweeping the week prior) wood stove started a fire. The device alerted us, and I was able to put the fire out with relatively minor damage. Another couple of minutes, the house would have been gone. The firemen had also been alerted and showed up 15 minutes later… but their intervention was only useful to make the later insurance settlement more straightforward.
@@geirmyrvagnes8718 Why ? simply because you don't understand it ? Most systems have battery management included anyway, so no extra cost....
@@MickH60 Yes. A monitored fire alarm sounds like something different than a battery management system. So please explain what monitored means in this context.
Good video. I think that combining home solar and batteries would be great. I live in sunny california and I just finished my first year with a solar battery system. We also have a NIM2 which means we sell electricity at retail rate. We were net positive for the year. This includes a electric vehicle charing with level 2 for 9 months. I think we used most of our power on site because of the battery bank. Note we charge the EV starting at midnight most of the time. Sometimes is we have a bunch of solar I'll charge during the day. The round trip efficiency on the battery is 90% so I save the 10%. In California new install sell electricity at wholesale which kill any financial reason to get solar. But with batteries the story is different if you avoid exporting energy.
I mean, been advocating roof top pannels for over a decade.
Moreover, have them over carparks: both extra power and keeps the cars below cool
One area you have not spoken of or discussed is recent Australian Universities work on PV built into glass window panes themselves, that are able to be placed into any buildings, new or retro fitted into existing buildings. These designs have progressed into commercial feasibility studies and are a potential game changer. They are also looking at being quite efficient compared to rooftop PV. May well be worth a look into. In essence a building can be covered by PV: the roof, windows and even external cladding, and generate more electricity than it uses.
We have so much solar on roofs in Brisbane Australia, my electricity plan provides free electricity from 11:00am to 2:00pm. Our electricity suppliers website openly explains there is so much electricity being generated at this time of the day, the wholesale cost of electricity is often in the negative - so effectively the supplier is making money if we use the electricity. Feed-in-tariffs keep going down too. In August, ours will fall to only $0.03 a Kw - luckily our solar panels paid for itself long ago. We use the free electricity to charge our cars, and importantly our home battery which in turn covers all our peek evening/night time usage (which otherwise would cost about $0.53 kw).
The only negatives to home installations for solar that i can think of off hand is (a) every house needs inverters - if it is concentrated on a farm, the infrastructure to cover all the solar will be cheaper and localised for storage. and (b) The grid infrastructure to have electricity generated so from many spread-out sources (millions) will need to be stored in central locations (such as potential energy in hydro dams, molten salt, batteries, etc...), will require considerable upgrades to the poles and wires connecting it all.
"Keep it simple": one large designated solar farm area, maintained by one entity which serves everyone, from one nearby battery solution
or
"Make it terrible for all": infinite variations of useful roof shape, shade from nearby objects, maintained by infinite entities with individualized battery, network costs & profit
The black and white reply instead of the grey reality similar to the debate about capitalism and socialism. The solution is always the proper mix of both, a compromise or centrist view, something that way too many humans are incapable of.
Covering parking lots would help a lot. Not just with power collection, but also would help keep cars from getting hot during the summer and from being covered in snow during the winter.
Here in Sydney I have 3.5kw solar and single Powerwall. During mid winter today I made 14kW and charged the battery to 60% via spare solar. Enough to be off grid based on my minimal consumption. Point I'm making is it will be a balance between number of panels, level of sunlight in your region and consumption in a day. Sadly with increasing housing density leading to more units and apartments, not everyone can access rooftop solar though. I can sum the whole equation up in one word.. depends.
covering every roof and all the highway junctions and shoulders, plus replacing all the animal fences next to roads with solar panels. This is shiploads already.
It makes sense to me to separate roofing maintenance from solar panel maintenance until which time we eliminate shingles and standard roofing materials
A lower carport shade or patio and pool shade would be easier to access and maintain
Last year France has made a law where supermarkets with open parking places larger than 400 m2 need to cover at least 60% of this with solar panels. What a great idea and somehow sad that a law has to be made for this, why did supermarkets not come up with this themselves? Even from the marketing perspective alone, show on a large digital billboard how much is being generated now, today, the past month and overall. But for commercial companies like supermarkets the economic benefit would be the first reason to take it on, as the majority of consumption would be during opening hours, which is mainly when the sun shines. Think of all the refrigeration and the AC systems (consumers buy more in a cool supermarket, than in a warm supermarket). I live part of the year on Mallorca (Spain) and there are some huge shopping malls (Carrefour, Alcampo), but also many Lidl supermarkets. About Lidl: they have worldwide 12,000+ supermarkets, many of them having open air parking places. Lidl has the money and what a great statement it would be of this organization to show they are really serious with contributing to the energy transition.
The term is YIMBY - yes in my backyard.
One thing no one ever seems to talk about is putting solar on communal buildings.
I'm thinking things like government buildings, military buildings, sports stadiums, theaters, swimming pools, factories, and probably a whole lot more.
There is a ridiculous amount of roof top not being utilized for solar, and solar with wind as well.
If we were to build out a decent amount of this we'd probably have more electricity than we would know what to do with.
The best use of solar I have seen is at a McDonald's in downtown Chicago. They added a structure above the roof that looks like a second roof made of solar panels. I love the idea as it keeps sun off of the actual roof, lowering cooling costs inside the building. Also, I would make the space in between the roof & solar panels into an outdoor space with couches, TVs, lots of speakers, and a bar. Maybe even use the solar voltaic you featured in the agriculture installs and add a pool, & sun lounges to the list as the AG setup appeared to let a lot of light through. I don't like the idea of the floating arrays because I am a boater that loves the water, and was sad to see large bodies of water unusable by boats. Some of the greatest inland bodies of water are dammed, and if I heard of such an effort at the dammed bodies of water near me I would lead the resistance to stop it. I also am not in favor of cutting down forests either. We must play nice with mother nature, or else she will kick our asses. Great video!! Thanks!
I installed Solar in Feb and even here int he UK basically I am making the profit since April, we have standing charges which can ignore. We still don't have regulations making solar on roofs compulsory ..
Warehouses and industrial sites are a better bet. I find it curious that it wasn't mention here and weird that companies haven't already fill all that space with solar
I live in a region that gets serious wind and rain storms in the winter. I used to love the mall, which sadly seem to have gone the way of the dodo, because you could go inside and do everything you needed to do without going out in the weather. Imagine if the parking lot was covered as well.
All parking lots should be covered in solar panels. This would also serve as covered parking which would lower the heat index under the panels. Even here in the Midwest the heat been crazy this year. It almost took my ass out.
Rooftop solar should be progressed and here in the UK it is. There are issues though, and not all roofs are suitable. The obvious one is structural strength, but high roofs can be an issue due to people falling from height during maintenance and cleaning, so the protective measures can become too expensive and take up too much space. Large lower roofs such as warehouses and large retail outlets are often perfect. The other areas are as mentioned several times in these comments are parking areas where they also provide shade to the cars. There is a lot more car parking area than roof tops in most business and retail parks and these lower panels are much easier to clean and maintain. Single or two storey houses are also great for solar but have a structural inspection of the roof before installing.
Matt, great video. The key point is flexibility, and to avoid the temptation of a one-size-fits-all approach. Glad to see you emphasize that in the video. Also, as others have noted, PV with battery energy storage will make massive distributed PV deployment much easier for utilities to accept onto their networks with less costly upgrades to their networks (or perhaps none at all). The battery energy storage serves to reduce the most problematic element of PV, it isn't "dispatchable". The addition of battery energy storage won't completely solve the problem, at least not economically yet. But it's getting better every year. There are already homeowners that chose a PV + energy storage solution over a traditional standby generator. That trend will continue.
I’ve always wondered why solar panels aren’t installed under high-voltage transmission lines. At least in New England these rights-of-ways are usually 100s of feet wide, already cleared of trees, have existing access roads for maintenance, and go on for miles. It seems like open, unused space just waiting to be put to use. I have the same thoughts about interstate median strips.
You are 100% correct! Available land, especially in the US of A, is absolutely not the problem holding back renewable power. It is partly global manufacturing capacities, and partly political/corporate will, as decentralized renewable power generation is a threat to some pretty powerful interests!
11:40 I’m pretty sure I’ve heard the word “YIMBY” for years now, meaning “Yes, In My Back Yard”.
Solar farms over reservoirs seems like a match made in heaven. Some municipalities are already investing millions of dollars into covering their reservoirs to minimize evaporation losses, adding floating solar farms on top seems like a win-win
I’m an airline pilot. Looking down I’m continually amazed by the huge amount of factory and warehouse roof space available! That’s where solar should be put, and there is already high grade power connections.
All I can tell you is that we have a 10 kWp PV installation on our single family home roof and we haven't needed grid connection for power supply since March, only for feeding in the massive amounts of energy we produce.
Why not use large parking lots, like those found at big box stores and malls? That is a lot of open area that even if partially covered in solar panels could generate a lot of electricity and keep those parking lots from getting excessively hot.
Putting solar over reservoirs that already use those black balls to prevent evaporation is a no-brainer...
Over anywhere that could use some shade, like over existing car infrastructure in areas that don't have crazy weather also makes a lot of sense...
The sides of overpasses...
The agricultural one is just amazing to me...
Australia has the world’s largest per capita penetration of solar in the world. I myself have an 8.8kw system. When I had my system installed, I went with a battery ready system. That means when I can finally afford a battery, I’ll be able to cover my entire household electric needs and still have plenty left over to export to the grid. Just need the federal and state governments to enact a decent rebate for batteries to make them more financially viable
You know that in the end, you the taxpayer pays for whatever the government spends? Plus extra to pay the bureaucrats. Plus interest on the government debt.
Building codes need to change to mandate 5kw of renewable energy be produced per 1,000sqft of living space for the property to be able to obtain a building permit for a home. For example a 2,200sqft home would be required to install 11kw, whereas a 700sqft tiny home would only be required to install 3.5kw and so on. The 5kw/1000sqft can come from solar, hydro, geothermal, or wind. Commercial building should have the same requirement except the number of KW is based on a calculation of available roof area. Commercial building should install solar panel arrays 8' above the roof and make an covered outdoor grassy space for employees to take breaks. The solar panels, grass, plants, etc have the added benefit of shading the roof reducing electrical cooling costs inside the building. An elevated install also allows for great air flow optimally cooling the panels themselves, "typically, a panel will experience a 0.5% decrease in power for every degree above 25°C[77°F]." Solar panels are dark in color and get very hot when in direct sunshine. Residential solar panels mounted on the roof with only a tiny air space between the shingles and the back of the panels there is minimal cooling and decreased output.
Well this kinda hits home for me bc I work for a company that is putting Solar on top of their 1 million sq facility in the Midwest and it is the largest roof solar project of it's kind in the area, a total of 4MW that will cover 3/4 of the roof.
@UndecidedMF14 Well they are still being installed so I will have to give another update a few months after we go live, but we are about 6 weeks from line hookup at this point so it is a bit early to say much. I can say that it has been interesting because the amount of weight on roof does show (my facility has a flat roof & yes we had engineering studies saying it can support it) and that with all the weight and movement we have had a number of new roof leaks throughout the installation damaging the roof membrane have happened. The way they are installing them is to use rubber blocks about the size a brick just set on the roof and mounting the structure to these blocks that just sit on the roof membrane from what i can tell. The panels are less than 2 feet above the roof at the highest point of the panels which was kind shocking because so many other sites have larger rigid structures for them. When it is all said and done they are expecting that we will be able to produce more than all the power we use even with still being tied to the grid, with enough left over for the "plan" of getting a small hydrogen generation plant to produce hydrogen for our fuel cells powering our forklifts and other powered machines.
Every home that has PV+batteries is reducing the 'demand' on the grid, and if they have surpluses, they even support the grid - at times. Agrivoltaics in France growing grape vines under PV produced heavier grapes with less water and a better acidity level than grapes grown in open fields. PV on Cattle and sheep grazing land is a carbon sink & improves the soil structure over the length of the PV lifespan.
It doesn't have to be limited to rooftop solar... and it doesn't really matter if we can cover production with rooftop solar, alone (as you indicated). But rooftop solar can improve things drastically. Further, other spaces that are already in use could be benefited by solar, like awnings for porches or parking lots. Parking lots would be extremely beneficial due to the microclimate that is created due to the solar mass absorbing heat all day; it would also shade vehicles which reduce energy consumption of all varieties using an air conditioner to cool the vehicle.