Double Socket, Double Failure, Double Pole
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ส.ค. 2024
- A double socket outlet with both switches failed.
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Good video John. There is a whole bowl of these BS1363 Sockets around some great quality and some like this, poor quality. I, on a fairly recent video got a switched MK socket to handle 47A before the switch failed. MK in my eyes are the best for consumer units and plugs/ sockets.
I stick with MK, they are quality. 😁
Even the newer MK accessories are not as good quality as the ranges from 20 or 30 years ago.
I preferred the older MK sockets for build quality though from what I remember they didn't need to have an earth pin inserted to plug something in.
To both of you, yes the older stuff was generally built to last, not to sell like modern equipment of today. However even British general today are rubbish. Look back 30 years forgetting the technological advancements of today stuff back then yes, was of better quality. 9/10 times!
@@cumberland1234 quite right, the shutter system on some MKs relied on pushing both live and neutral pins in at the same time,and turning sideways, not being pushed down by the earth pin.... i dont know if the current MKs use the same idea..
For me the best at the moment is Crabtree.
Thats a very poor method of fixing the copper strips with those clear plastic pegs, they weren't even a tight fit, an obvious overheating point from day one!
Looks like that socket had been used to power a couple of 3kw heaters or a similar load.
CED - Chinese Electrical Disaster!
I have seen switches burn out due to people being hesitant when using the switch. They move the switch very carefully and end up holding it such that you get excessive arcing, this can happen with any make and can be done deliberately if you want to try it.
I use to do that as a kid when I was younger. A light switch in our house would arch when you turn the switch on slowly. It doesn't happen as much now with everybody using LED light bulbs that draw less current.
Your life and home is at risk when you install this crap. I have seen them in a lot of cheapy shops. I have always purchased mine from a reputable supplier, mostly MK ones.
CED, that explains it. I’ve had switches failing in the on position, and plugs getting stuck in their sockets.
Thank you, this video helped me figure out the issue with a plug socket
I always fit MK to avoid call backs but Click Mode is also a good cheaper alternative I've used a lot recently
I'd be very interested in watching you dissect one of those 3 gang socket things and see how the third fused socket in connected to the rest of the unit.
Not the worst outcome, that it simply stopped working.
I mean, the occupants weren't smoked to death in their sleep.
I've had a bit of plaster dust get into a socket and stop the rocker switch moving. A bit or percussive maintenance later and everything works again.
i've had that with one... its awaiting a clean out... if i can get it apart without ruining it
Yes me too some can be opened others the earth bar is riveted on after
Surprisingly CED's metal sockets are not anywhere near as bad as that plastic example, I bagged an Axiom
metal clad socket from a hardware store pretty much just as a spare and didn't know Axiom sockets were
made by CED. But of course on EBay I would stick with premium brands like MK, Varilight or Crabtree.
Got a whole newly built extension of these crappy sockets, slowly going round changing them. I know who installed them - they need striking off!
Thank you very much sir,lots of love from Nepal🇳🇵🇳🇵🇳🇵
Thanks a lot, I fixed my socket myself after watching you explain, thanks you , as I did not have money to replace I had to fix it and I just finished now , 1:54am wow
it looks like somebody over powered that socket
CED - Crap Electrical Device, just they made it to handle 3A of load, but the spec calls for it to actually handle 13A, along with switching reliably for years
What do you think could over power a socket? Like a washing machine or something?
Just cheap crap, you get what you pay for.
a lot of electrical fittings that were once made from 'bakelite' /urea thermoset 'hard' plastic are now made from this 'soft' thermoplastic stuff....
Circuit breakers are still made of that heat-resistant type of plastic, at least from what I've seen in the USA.
Proper "soft" plastic is a far better and safer material than the brittle bakelite / UF rubbish. Only in the UK would they use antiquated material like that. In Australia we stopped using those hard plastics for switches and power outlets in the 1960's or 1970's, as they were far too dangerous. Those old plates would never pass out (more strict than BS) mandatory safety testing.
In Australia we don't use thermoset plastics for standard outlets... there is no need for it in the UK either, however some people think it's required to meet the regs (which only require glow wire testing and self-extinguishing within 30 seconds).
I always liked to play around with switches and keep them half open so they'd arc. If someone did that on this one as well it would be getting hot very quickly.
Ced the brand to use if you think your not going to get paid.
I think some tests should be made to see what constitutes excessive load or abuse,to the point that various ced stuff fails.
I needed an exterior retractive switch could only find 2 options.
mk were about £30
Ced from Wickes at £7:50 several on the shelf had lost their springiness. Still bought one😥. Takes a couple of attempts to activate my timed lighting .
I wouldn't even look at this kind of rubbish. Far inadequate to carry any load. MK certainly used to be unbeatable, but they don't seem quite as good today. Worth always reclaiming any of the older MK products.
Thanks for the great videos, always about when your videos come on 👍
Using a thermoplastic - PP I presume - for the backplate is just asking for trouble. Apart from softening when warm they also creep under load and it looks like it wouldn't take much to reduce the switch contact pressure enough to cause them to run hot.
What kind of certification marks were on it? In the US there's UL (Underwriters Laboratory) an assurance that the device has been properly tested. That thing looks it was substandard from minute one. The makers were probably planning on nobody using it to the maximum rating.
randycarter2001 They are meant to be made to British Standards, BS 1363
Very easy to get cheap parts. MK is the better manufacturer for these sockets.
There's a BS 'kitemark' on the back at 0:58, it's that thing shaped a bit like a loveheart right of centre - also stamped BS 1363 above the rating info that John points to.
What I don't see is a CE mark - I don't think that mark particularly means anything since unscrupulous manufacturers are putting it on all sorts of dangerous junk... but I thought it was illegal to sell stuff without it these days.
...Which looks up as made by Huizhou Chung Kee Electrical Co., Ltd - brand named as CED
Can't seem to find these sockets on the CED website today, maybe they've been discontinued?
The have been examples of Chinese manufacturers faking paperwork to allow them to stamp BS (or UL) on items that have not been through the testing process.
Hi JW, I discovered tons of 1950s single core rubber sheathed cable abandoned in situ in my attic in 2 colours... If you want some for a video you aee welcome to it!
The external appearance of the socket with that nasty finish and sharp contours along with the shoddy switch operation and feel marks it out as very poor quality from the beginning. My general rule of thumb is that if the switch operations are notchy, then it's generally a poor quality outlet and best avoided. A couple of pound extra makes all the difference.
I've had sockets do this and I found a sharp whack will get the switch to stay on or if it's on I leave it! They end up cracking before the switches break in my new house where they use very cheap plastic, maybe it's my heavy handedness is the problem.
Thank you this was really helpful
Where is Commodore 1084ST Computer Monitor Repair Part 2 ???
Not made yet. Part 2 will be available when/if the monitor is repaired.
What would the price difference be between that socket and a proper quality one, say like MK?
An MK one is £3.85 from screwfix. I'm guessing one like this would be around £2
Blake Hi Blake
A legrand double socket outlet here (non switched) in SW France 22.0 euro. Gold dust!
@@cooper512 Wonder why people buy crap like that, where for an extra £2 you get quality and safety.
@@madbstard1 there are contractors who work for builders who get squeezed for every penny. I fit MK or Scolmore because otherwise it ends up costing you or the client when you have to go back and sort it out, faff you can practically eliminate easily
@@madbstard1 If you're installing or changing a single point then it's peanuts, but it soon adds up to a significant amount if you`re putting in a lot. While the saving is probably illusory its attraction is nevertheless understandable.
CED sells/imports cheap tat. The socket shows a BS Kitemark; needs reporting to them. I've tweeted BSI a link.
I think those CED sockets etc are the ones they sell in places like Tool Station, they are dirt cheap
Saw your video. Just asking. Where did you buy this socket? Was it an approved product? Something is not right here. Why is the toggle switch connecting the neutral line instead of the live line. This is a safety hazard. This switch in my opinion has design defects and should not be used at all. Just my two cents.
It's probably designed like that to make consumers upgrade to the new gen sockets with the so-called smart technology and chargers built into them.
Double trouble, 2 pounds,cheap way to burn your house down.old saying you get what you pay for.
Good teacher
Could someone please clarify why some sockets are "double pole" and what that means in the context of plug sockets?
@Jack Marley Thank you.
What was the answer?
A double pole (DP) switch switches both the live and the neutral. A single pole switch only switches the live. On our premises we specify DP switch faceplates only.
CED are the cheap and nasty ones you can get in B&Q and other places like Wilko, maybe Screwfix absolute budget range below even LAP brand. Really only good for junk uses like a work bench or shed were it might get used 4 times a year. Not had temendous luck with Crabtree either as their switches tend to jam, having to stick with MK for any use inside the house.
Crabtree also melts the socket contacts, along with the switches. Sadly there are few good manufacturers left, all have cut costs to maximise profit, though the older Crabtree stuff is great and long lasting, the new stuff is rubbish, unless you only use it at under 5A load. I picked up a lot of old stock Crabtree 2 way switches on a sale at the wholesaler for under 50p each, so replaced all the ones in the house with them, even though I have no 2 way switching, as they will last well, and the originals were mostly 50 year old Lascon that were starting to show their age. Largest load is 100VA of fan on them, the rest is LED or Pl lights. Only incandescent lamp is the bedside light, which is celebrating it's 80th birthday this year.
dunno my shed ones get used well, i replace a few mk metal clad every 5 years!
I've taken a double socket apart to paint it. There are two small springs in there that have fell out and I've no idea where they were fitted. Any ideas guys?
Really good video. Thank you.
Looks like it actually failed its 500 volt high current test but was put in the wrong bin!
CED are a right horrible cheap brand, I prefer RPP or MK.
Thanks sir I made it following ur steps,my boss will think am some kind elite plz don't tell anyone😁😁😁😁
Looks like a case of overheating on both socket outlets
That socket outlet has definitely been overloaded, I have replaced a few that have had washing machine, and a tumble drier both connected to the same outlet in kitchens and utility rooms, when the heaters on both switch on at the same time this causes severe overloading, but right on the limit in most cases. However this is not an ideal or advisable situation. I replaced the socket outlets and put both washer and drier on separate socket outlets, and its been fine ever since. If a socket outlet has been passed as BS1363 and kite marked, it must surely meet all tests. 20A seems to be the max load on both outlets combined, but manufacturers vary their upper thresholds for safety and durability. Heres some interesting reading from the IET forums www.theiet.org/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=205&threadid=33787
Only the front plate thermoset, the plastic part housing the contacts and switch rockers being thermoplastic (a very soft, low melting point type) seems to be the main design flaw. I'd say all of these are inherently defective and need to be recalled.
Yes - the hard and brittle thermoset front covers are very dangerous. The material is no longer used in almost all countries apart from the UK. The fail here is the design of the metal parts... the plastics have absolutely nothing to do with it.
I'm amazed at how it has _some_ contacts on there, but the pivoting contact pieces have one end that is just brass (?) on brass. WTF? So for each outlet, there are 4 electrical contacts. Combined with the strange contacts, it's just asking for trouble (poor reliability).
Also, thermoplastic... yuck. They could have at least impregnated fibers in it to help prevent it from deforming as much when heated.
A socket outlet is not supposed to get hot. You could say that the thermoplastic is designed as a thermal fuse to "reduce the load" if it gets too hot.
Very beautiful ❤️ video
that ced brand sounds familiar.....think i have at least one or 2 of those..
Good video mentor John
Yes every one will buy a cheaper one Japan on less
Instead to buy the expense one
Cheaper one is a house burn down
No buy ride buy smart
Thanks my mentor hope every 1 to looking to this videos have a open eye and mind
I eating every single lessons up
of every video
Thanks
I can't assemble again single pole socket after
Cheap crap. I only fit Hager.
what is the differences between a 13A 2 gang single pole socket and a 13A 2 gang double pole socket?
For single pole the switch is in the line only, double pole switches both line and neutral.
They can also be obtained with no switch.
@@jwflameyou mean live not line? So dp or single in real world doesn't matter which you use? Or could you get more potential failures with dp? Tlc electrical have a double dp cheaper at moment and want to buy but I want most reliable. It's MK basic product
CED means Chinese Export Defect?
probably..😁
Maybe, but I do think its chingrish for Chinese Export Designed.
I like this ❤❤
Should you recommend mk all day long as you get what you spend the little extra for
Insightful video, keep up the good work jw
John, I just found your videos recently and like them. Being from US and after designing electrical systems for over 30 years, I have a question. Why are the terms earthing pin and earthing bar used on your side of the pond? Is it more a generic term or something else? In US they are called "equipment ground". Also "ground" is defined as "connected to earth". But this portion of the electrical system really has nothing to do with "earth grounding". The purpose of this system will be achieved with NO connection to "earth". Please let me know what you can. Respectfully Submitted.
pmailkeey Ok so it is just terminology. Do you agree that this is misnamed? In NEC this portion of the electrical system will be renamed sometime in the future to "bonding" as they are not grounds or in your case, earths. Thank you for your response and time.
teşekkürler
Huzzah!
B... long winded
im amazed anyone woyld fit these, aside from being very poor quality internally, they look horrible on the outside.
Cheap almost grey off white colour, nasty switches and angular corners.
When ever i ree decorate a room or do a renovation i always change over all the switches and face plates to mk. Doing this instantly changes the look of a room.
These cheap sockets are horrible.
contractors most likely, they buy them by the case load and charge the customer as if they were a quality item, they last long enough to get paid , and laugh to the bank
Whats your view on crabtree sockets.?
Decent enough. The older ones with the round brass terminals on the back were better, the newer ones have square terminals with less metal in them.
I recently installed 3 volex 1000 series brushed steel double sockets in my fathers garage to dining room conversion. The double pole variants still have round brass terminals, the single pole variants have the cheaper square terminals. I would rather have fitted MK but the rest of the house is wired with volex 1000 series so matching accessories was more desirable.
Anyone actually weighed a genuine MK and compared to cheaper ones, suggestions for a relevant British Standard anyone!.
Possibly a loading test of say 20 amps for 5 minutes per socket outlet ( approx 1.5 X 13A rating). There is a similar test for using steel conduit for earthing if memory serves?.
Yes, I do have 100% MK sockets in my house.
Thanks for sharing.
There is a relevant British Standard. BS1363 which covers 13A plugs and sockets.
@@cjmillsnun , yes, I should have said a test by the installer, sorry. But then the poor electrician is liable.
too many amps for this plug... 1.3A rated... maybe . double throw away that
CED - Consumer ED?
The customer certainly will get ED when he has to replace all the sockets in the house
Where is it manufactured. Too many moving parts easy to damage. Not surprised if cheap import from china.
Where else would stuff like this be manufactured? Keyword really is the price and what you buy and from who in China.
As Martin Clunes would say, these sockets are a Shite Show! Lol
cheap shit what can you expect buy quality ones there not expensive
👍
QC pass? I think those test methods need an overhaul.
BS1363 only means the design shape of the plug it does not mean BS7671 safe.
That's why we in other countries don't have 32amp fuses for sockets. If you put two 13A plugs in to this socket you will overload it by 100%
Morten Winsløw
?
the 32 amp will be for a ring main, not an individual socket, it may feed 10 sockets...and 26a total is what these are MEANT to handle
Each wall socket in the UK is rated for 13A. The main RCD for the sockets will open if you try to pull too much current in one go.
However, if you watch John's other videos, you'll see the wiring and so-on is capable of handling pretty extreme overloads before things set on fire.
I had a 2KW heater and if I ran it all day the plug's pins got hot enough to burn me, but none of the plastic on the socket or plugs had gone soft or charred.
@@jamesgrimwood1285 RCD is for ground fault and nothing else
What utter tosh. Double sockets in the UK are fully rated for 2 x 13A plugs with a total of 26A, and the plugs are individually fused at 13A.
The 32A is the rating of for a normal ring circuit, and the breaker protects the fixed wiring, not the socket/plug. I should add that 32A radial circuits are also allowed, and the individual plug fuses will limit the load on any one outlet.
Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to UK wiring standards.
Interesting. There's a lot more going on inside a British socket than a North American one.
You mean like having a switch as standard, and none of the horrid push in connections that melt and arc.
There is, although the switch is optional. Most outlets will have them, but it's not compulsory. What is also now common are outlets than also have two and sometimes event four USB connectors. That makes them quite a bit more crowded.
In this particular case, the outlet is just shoddily made.
@@SeanBZA The only problems I've seen with those push in connectors is when people try to pull out a wire then reuse the same connector other than that they have worked fine for me, but you're right. Using the screws is the better option.
@@twn5858 I see plenty of push in connections in lights working well for decades, but there the current is under 2A, and releasing them is also possible using a little bit of wire to trip the spring to release it. Expecting that though to handle 16A long term is not a good idea though, especially in the UK where the socket might have to be passing 16A to the outlet, and also having another 16A flowing through to support the rest of the ring main. They will fail at 30A if they are poor, as John has demonstrated before.
blah blah blah
v. good
Why the hell would you need a switch right by the outlet anyways? How about just unplugging the cord if you want to shut off the thing plugged into the outlet?. I don't know how outlets work in the UK, but I have never seen a switched outlet like this here in the US. Seems kind of silly to me.
its always a good idea to switch off before removing or inserting a plug, plus it turns off the appliance , which may not have its own 'fully off' switch, just a 'standby'... saves a lot of plugging and unplugging
pmailkeey yeah, my phone/laptop chargers have large capacitors in them so have a high start current. If you plug them in when the socket is on you get a lot of arcing, enough to leave pitting/scorch marks on the plugs. It’s always a good idea to switch off the socket before plugging in or unplugging loads like this.