Yes , that flat EU plug fits nicely. In fact, there is simple plastic adapter that opens the shutters and usually they give it to you in hotels (on cyprus at least)
Yeah, I stayed in a brand new holiday inn express (sheffield) in it's first week. They had hotel TVs with an interface box on the back that had a europlug PSU on them, and it was just forced into the bs1363 socket on the wall. Didn't impress me at all.
What you didn't demonstrate is attempting to shove only the live pin into the older MK socket. The design was such that it required both live and neutral pins present to open the shutter. A clever bit of design that some might not expect. Come to that, it would be interesting to see what the newer ones do if only earth and live pins are present.
@pmailkeey Yes. Very true. Now design a simple, cheap, reliable, non-conductive mechanism to achieve that. :) If you hadn't seen it done, would you even have thought it possible? Oh, and no cheating by disassembling one of the older MK sockets.
@pmailkeey A socket requiring all three pins to be inserted at the same time was precisely what John demonstrated with the Hager and the newer MK designs. Forcing people to switch the socket off before removing the plug probably has more safety hazards than it prevents. The reason IEC equipment connectors (like the one on the back of your computer, if you're in Europe) are so loose are so the cable is less of a trip hazard.
@pmailkeey I once had a thing called a "Fault Tolerant File Server" which was actually two servers copying each other's data. We discovered that one fault they could not tolerate was an engineer tripping over both power cables at once. :) Of course why, in an alleged 'computer room', they had to be powered by cables trailing over the floor is a different question.
@pmailkeey Not sure if it would have refused outright, but it certainly wouldn't have worked as intended. What was installed was SCO Unix... Please insert disk 2 of 96...
Around 1990, when I was a toddler, I used to like to pretend that any toy with a string, cord or strap was some kind of electrical appliance, and I would regularly "plug in" these toys by poking their "flex" into one of the holes on a socket. Fortunately, the shutters were there to prevent an accident. My favourite toy for this game was a pull-along spider with a nice white cord. If I licked the end to make it pointy, it could be made to wedge quite nicely between the plastic face of the socket and one of the MK Logic earth contacts. My Mum was terrified I was going to kill myself. Our house had originally been fitted with unswitched Crabtree sockets in the early 1970s, but my Dad replaced them all with MK Logic in expectation of my arrival, having heard that those were meant to be more child-safe because of the unique shutter mechanism. Of course, the original sockets had shutters as well, but I think perhaps MK made it more of a selling point. Ironically, I remember I quite enjoyed playing with the switches on the MK sockets! They had a satisfying snap action and bright red indicator patches!
Yup, the CEE 7/3 'Svhucko' plug and the others that share the 4.8mm pin dimensions and alignments really don't go into a BS 1363 socket in a useful way. However the 2.5 amp Europlug with its narrower 4mm posts hardly need any effort at all thankyouverymuch.
The problem I have found with Europlugs and BS1363 sockets is that due to the design and positioning off the pins the plugs can get stuck and scrape plastic off the side of the socket apertures or with certain styles of extension block even rip the whole front off the socket..
Hi, and thank you! I've got a highly experimental grandson and I'm going to review and if necessary change my builder installed British Standard sockets to more secure designs. Folks, not only can putting unfused plugs into sockets intended for fused plugs cause fires, bypassing that safety shutter can kill. BobUK.
Your comment about European plugs being a tight fit in the BS1363 sockets and damaging them over time applies only to the 3 contact 'Schuko' type F plug that you showed there . It does not apply to the far more common 2-pin European plug the type C. The Schuko plug has 4.8 millimetre diameter pins but the two pin European plug has 4mm diameter pins which is exactly the same as the thickness of UK pins and plugs in very smoothly to a UK socket of the sort where the earth pin opens the shutters. The modern type C also has shrouded pins just like a BS1363 plug. Of course the non fuse protected 2-pin type C plugs are designed to be used on a maximum 16A circuit as you say, not the UK 32A ring main.
Those are only used for non earth protected and low amp devices. Pluging those devices in 32A circuits is no problem as they only draw lower amperage than circuit is designed for. Bybthe way, schuko plugs and sockets desigbed for max 16A are a real problem in some cases, internal conectors are sometimes too thin and fragile and some devices( Allthough they not necessary need kore than 16A) would be better served by sturdier connections and thicker conductors. UK plugs and sockets designed for 32A seems much more apropriate for being used with serious hardware and there is no issue when they are used with lighter devices...
@@parintele- you misunderstand. The UK bs1363 plugs contain a fuse (13amps or less) to limit current if the is a fault. Therefore the circut to the UK socket can be rated at up to 32amp. A euro plug doesn’t have an internal fuse as it is meant to be plugged into a socket on a circuit limited to 16 amp or less. The point of protection (againt over current) is implemented at a different point. Both systems are safe if used correctly. But using a non UK plug in a UK socket (without an approved and fused adaptor) IS NOT SAFE.
Can you (in a subsequent video) disassemble UK sockets with different shutter types to show how their internal mechanisms work/differ and compare with US shutter socket mechanisms?
You used the earthed German type European plug to shove it in the older MK socket. The earthed ones use thicker pins. If you used an older unearthed German type plug or even a modern 2 pin Euro plug it probably would have worked ; they have thinner pins!
@@NOWThatsRichy The euro plug is restricted to 2.5 amps! I think the leads are required to be at least 0.75 mm², but that's mainly for mechanical strenght.
The cee 7/16 is the low power 2 pin one where the contacts normally flex enough to ram into sockets without issue. 7/7 as pictured and 7/17 (class II variant) don't generally fit as the pins are too robust
in places like dubai you can buy small plastic adaptors to fit a 2 pin euro plug into a UK socket. the adaptor has a plastic earth pin and then narrow plastic lugs about 5mm long which hold the adaptor into the live/neutral socket. once fitted into the UK socket you can push in the 2 pin euro plug without any shutter problems.
The MK and Hager not just being safer and better quality look much nicer with the rounded edges and switches, no reason to skimp on something that gets replaced so rarely.
Although it's been awhile since I've seen it, but I seem to remember a subject-appropriate scene in the movie Trainspotting. In it, one the main protagonists plugs in both a TV & an old top-loading VCR. Wouldn't be a big deal, except that if I remember right, both items had UK plugs w/o ground/earth pins.
I love that the IEC website says "British sockets have shutters on the live and neutral contacts so that foreign objects can’t be introduced into them." Don't want those foreign appliances coming over here, stealing our Joules... 🤣
@pmailkeey The common sizes of BS546 were/are 2A, 5A and 15A (note: India and South Africa kept the 5A and 15A pin layouts but increased the current ratings to 6A and 16A) I understand there was also a 30A size but I think it was fairly uncommon.
@pmailkeey The 30A round pin BS546 socket was a rare sight. I used to carry out Periodic Inspection and Testing in the '90s and early 2000s and I only ever came across them in corridors of hospitals built in the '50s/'60s where they were used for portable X ray machines. The sockets were the typical well built construction of the period and if I remember correctly they were made by Walsall and had double pole switches made of two mercury tilt switches operated by a toggle switch on the front of the chromed face plate.
I have to admit that I've used the "shove something in the earth and shove a europlug in" once in a hotel, having arrived back in the UK late at night and realising that the only USB charger I had was the one that also acted as a european to UK converter.
1947, didn't know the square 3 pin was introduced then, I remember helping my father in late 70's, early 80's replacing the round 5 and 16 amp sockets with them. Round pin plugs were non fused if I remember correctly?, Were any round pin fused?. Were the shaver 2 round pin plugs, smaller in diameter, ref intended for double insulated socket fitted in bathrooms? Thanks for sharing.
There is a good web page on the topic at www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/OldBritish1.html Round pin plugs with 3 pins commonly came in 2, 5 and 15 amp sizes, with matching sockets. No fuse was included as standard, but since these were not usually installed on 30 amp circuits, a fuse wasn't as important as it was for BS1363. However, it was possible to buy 5 amp plugs with fuses inside. I gather that both 5 and 15 amp sockets tended to be installed on 15 amp circuits, and so there was little point in putting a fuse inside a 15 amp plug because it was already likely to be fused at 15 amps, but an argument could be made for including a fuse in a 5 amp plug. The two pin plugs are dimensionally incompatible with the three-pin ones, but were originally used for a variety of appliances before being adopted for their modern-day use in bathrooms. My grandparents had a box full of them, including adaptors, which they had used for appliances prior to having BS1363 sockets installed in the 1980s. (With the help of (fused) adaptors, they continued to use them on table lamps into the 2000s.)
I remember seeing some 15A (I think - I was quite young at the time) round pins where the line pin was a ceramic cased fuse. I've had a quick google and can't find an example. I guess the fuses were proprietary to that brand of plug and must have had some threading or similar to stop the fuse from coming out and sticking in the socket when you unplugged it!
I have a French Euro socket extension lead with with a 13A fuse in the UK plug. For low power items I have a 2 pin extension with a 5A fuse in the UK plug.
The only thing I don't like about these outlets is you can't seem to connect them and fold the cables back into back box without exposing some copper ,the older style seemed to have a deeper entry for cables. I do like like the 3 pin safety shutter arrangement.
Hager. MK used to be good but it's gone right downhill. Take it from someone that changes them day in day out! New MK stuff has tiny terminals and screws. Screws round off easily too. Hager have nice big terminals and deep screws for good purchase. Old MK was excellent. The outsourcing to Mexico ruined it.
Thank you John . Interesting to see that the shutters could be defeated on the cheaper socket , i can imagine some europeans holiday makers staying in say perhaps guest houses putting something in the earth pin so they can use their device without an adapter. Obviously most would hopefully get an adapter before travelling.
Batam also use a British Standard like socket etc. (Ex-British Colony) and people who travel from other indonesia/europe to Batam they do insert the european plug into a UK socket with key or other metal part inserted to earth pin to open the shutter and put the two pins into UK socket, they dont know how dangerous it is when german/euro plug inserted into UK socket. standard shutter mechanism socket are very common here like schneider brand (cheaper). hager and MK with special shutter mechanism are not common, not many people use that brand. here made in UK hager/MK socket are really expensive than UK price.
These and similar: uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/1365698/ although most homes don't have 3 phase and there are no 3 phase appliances intended for home use either.
Growing up in the 70's it seemed to be a regular thing! Even at the age of 9 or 10 I remember doing it, thankfully times have changed and hopefully people no longer do it
in 2008 new codes required use of "tamper resistant" (shuttered) sockets here in the US ... sadly I've found thus far that manufacturers have really poor success in making a system that works reliably and consistently... I have TR sockets in many areas of my house... and almost none of them open that nicely for a "properly compliant" plug in our system.... most of them have to wiggle and jam to get in the plug... which really makes it feel unsafe, as unlike the UK system, we have no reach around protection, so seems like it really could cause more issue than it solves.
Typically USA. They should adopt UK or European systems, including all the metric goodness. But no, beeing stubborn as they are, they'd rather have a load of electrocution victims on their hands!
It's not difficult to see why the US sockets would not lend themselves well to reliably retrofit shuttered sockets. There isn't really enough space around the pins to do a good enough job reliably. Not much can be done about it now as there are billions of such sockets in service.
round pin plugs now that takes me back to my not so distant past....heres a old tale from my childhood to my adultness...... my grans house (old back to back terraced with outside bog....we had one bult inside in 50's) had round pin til my dad got it all rewired after gran went into nursing home. i stayed there weekends to see dad. the electrics was obviously outdated, and a farce trying to plug things in as you had to have an adaptor or wire the applience to the roundpin plugs. we didnt run that much anyway in our round pin days, didnt have a fridge.....we stored things in cellar, didnt have a washer....was all done by hand ...i dont remember a washer anyway only the reight old 40's/50's spinner that didnt work, just one telly downstairs, an hoover and i do mean a ligit retro hoover...we had a couple of those that we actually used up till about 1997-ish !!!. when my dad sorted house out fully in 1998 he got most things we needed, fridge, washer...the basics. but he ran a pub out of town and i went to live with him and his partner there, then had to move back to the old home in 1999 and back to absolutly freezing to death in winters as we had a boiler but no central heating...that came later after i moved out. i had gone to visit my dad at the house a few times and was shocked at how much it had altered....all new, new windows, doors, bathroom, fire place, kitchin all brand new i didnt recognise it 1st time i visited. dad eventually sold the place and buggered off for a new life in fife, it didnt go for asking price even though it was all done out and modernised....nobody wanted a small 20's terraced back to back house. its really struggled to get an owner, after the 2008 struggle to sell it, it was last baught in 2011...so one of the house price history sites say anyway. i look at photos of it now in the estate agents sites, and reminise back to when i stayed and lived there......everyone always grows too attached to things, we shouldnt..... but we do. you can alter something till the cows fart and fly off....but you cant take the memories away.
"They haven't actuall made those sockets for some time" -- Afaict this is not entirely true, the modern MK standard-size sockets use the 3 pin mechanism, but (at least according to the pictures in the catalogue) the "mini logic" and "panel mount" sockets still use the 2-pin operated mechanism.
(note: this reply was originally replying to a post asking about floor sockets which seems to have disappeared) @Jack Marley Looking at the catalog that indeed appears to be the case. The picture shows the old "2-pin" shutter, the notes say "rotary operated shutter" and the part numbers do not start with a "K".
Hello John! Question for you. Are there different grades of sockets available in the UK or are they pretty much all the same? We in North America have like "Residential" grade, various kinds of "Specification" grade and even a "Hospital" Grade sockets of varying degrees.... Just curious...
I'm not sure that there are official standards, but there are certainly sockets of different quality and robustness. For example, I fitted metal clad sockets in my garage, and they are considerably more robust than the plastic domestic ones. Those sort of sockets tend to get specified for factory environments, hospitals or anywhere else where they might get a lot of abuse. If surface mounted, in industrial environments, the cables are run in galvanised steel tubing. However, even in the field of domestic sockets there are vast differences. There are dozens of different styles available which become part of the decor. So, you can get those white plastic ones, but if you want brushed stainless steel, you can have those, or antique-effect metal finish, of grey metal, black metal, mirror finish, nickel plated and so on. A lot of the more expensive ones are inherently tougher as they usually have metal faceplates with plastic insets round the pin holes. There are also industrial power sockets, which are a completely different set of designs for use on high powered equipment, often three-phase. Those sort of sockets often have features such as a degree of water and splash resistance and won't be used in a domestic environment (but may be found in some hospital settings), but conform to international standards IEC standards.
REWYRED the only one of those that actually has any sort of regulatory meaning is "hospital grade." The others are marketing wank. Yes, typically, one company's "commercial" grade will be more robust than their "residential" grade, which will, in turn, be better than their "builder's grade." But you can't use those to compare across manufacturers. Personally, some of the builder's grade outlets are a safety hazard as far as I'm concerned. My brother recently bought a house built in 1995. There were a couple outlets that didn't work. So I checked them out, and found that the outlets are all entirely made of junk quality plastic, including the mounting frame, with the exception of the actual contact terminals. And that plastic had become brittle and the outlet physically broke from behind, leaving the wires (which naturally were connected to the flimsy push-in connectors instead of the screw terminals) hanging loose. I replaced those outlets with good ones, then showed my brother how to replace them, bought a whole case of new outlets, and he's gradually replacing all of them as he gets time. Retail price for the cheapest acceptable quality is like $1/each if you get a 10 pack. Did the builder really save that much using these horrible things?
Hi John, I was hoping you would dismantle the sockets to see the actual mechanism used to raise/lower the shutters in each case - can you do a follow up video??? It was an interesting video nevertheless, I was not aware of the 'modern' three-pins-required-at-once style of socket. Thanks.
maxiboyfm3a yes we do have extension cords and yes they have the same shutters as the BS1363 standards apply to them all. Even the cheapo poundland versions have them.
What about the socket you see on eBay which will take every type of plug. They are very popular in China and adapters come with many thing you buy from China
The flat Europlug connector ("CEE 7/16 plug") as described at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europlug has smaller pins (4 mm diameter) than the "Schuko" mains connector (pins of 4.8 mm diameter) you tried to put in. The Europlug pins are small enough that they can fit to many UK outlets without too much pushing. It is demonstrated in this picture th-cam.com/video/fi5_CTBnDgc/w-d-xo.html and I have tested that it has worked in practice. Plugging in un-fused Europlug rated for voltages up to 250 V and currents up to 2.5 A to an UK outlet is a really bad idea on the electrical safety viewpoint - plug rated for 2.5A poorly mated to outlet rated for maximum 13A current and this protected with up to 30A or 32A fuse on the mains panel.
Afaict while BS1363 was standardized in 1943 it took quite a while to become dominant with both the older BS546 and various propietary types remaining in use.
There will always be some idiot who will appempt to insert a round pin plug into a UK socket. Another thing is those dreadful plastic moulded earth pin on some appliances. They have a tendency to break off within a socket making it very difficult to reinsert in a different socket, also making the orignal socket unusable.
I laughed at JW's half-hearted attempts to fit a Euro plug into the UK socket. In Australia we have 10A, 15A, 20A and 32A sockets which all look almost identical. They are designed so that any socket will accept same or lower rated plugs, but not higher rated plugs. Details: www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/Australian_3hd.html Anyway, how does everyone use (say) a 15A welder in a standard 10A socket? EASY - just file down the earth pin. We Aussies would have no problem fitting the Euro plug into ANY UK socket.
Hi John nice video, may I suggest some healing hand cream your hands must have been fishing out cables in voids all week by the looks of them they look very sore! Take care of yourself mate Kind regards Warren
UK socket needs rework. Times are since long gone when a house has one socket in the living room for a TV and one in the kitchen for a water heater. It is bulky, old-fashioned, obsolete crap today and unfortunately I have to use this crap still.
Erik Johansson they are dimensioned that way for logical reasons which are part of the intrinsic safety design. Also as has been pointed out they are in fact the most modern design so claiming it is old fashioned and obsolete is very wide of the mark.. When we moved into our current house 8 years ago we had a full rewire because it only had a single (yes single) outlet in each room. It was built in 1960 so long gone? Well perhaps not so much as you think. Perhaps you'd enlighten us all as to how you'd changed the design in such a way that would retain the intrinsic safety?
Robin Turner Type N socket is far more up to date considering all the consumers that are connected in each and every room. One need half a meter of sockets using this old fashioned monstrosity per room. But it has a fuse you may argue, and you are right. At least where I am the fuse comes as default at 13Amps 240VAC no matter if the consumer at the other end of the cable is a small 500mA charger. I would be fine without that fuse and most people would be too. Vast majority of countries don't use fused plugs and they are fine still. But it has shutters you may argue and that is true too. And it is truly the only good thing with this monster contraption. But, I can go to IKEA even and buy small plastic covers to plug in and no small hands will remove those. As for those who still manage to use a plug / socket wrongly perhaps poking it with keys or nails. Get a shock and drop as far as I am concerned or live in the eoods without electricity.
Erik Johansson so wrong on many counts and no you can't buy socket covers from IKEA they no longer sell them as they recognise the issues and in any case they are actually banned in ALL NHS premises and schools. Factually accuracy is important and sadly missing. And descending to profanity destroys any credibility you may have had.
Europlug has smaller diameter pins, may work forcing into some of the ones that the Schuko definitely didn't go in.
Yes , that flat EU plug fits nicely. In fact, there is simple plastic adapter that opens the shutters and usually they give it to you in hotels (on cyprus at least)
Yeah, I stayed in a brand new holiday inn express (sheffield) in it's first week. They had hotel TVs with an interface box on the back that had a europlug PSU on them, and it was just forced into the bs1363 socket on the wall. Didn't impress me at all.
What you didn't demonstrate is attempting to shove only the live pin into the older MK socket. The design was such that it required both live and neutral pins present to open the shutter. A clever bit of design that some might not expect.
Come to that, it would be interesting to see what the newer ones do if only earth and live pins are present.
@pmailkeey
Yes. Very true. Now design a simple, cheap, reliable, non-conductive mechanism to achieve that. :) If you hadn't seen it done, would you even have thought it possible?
Oh, and no cheating by disassembling one of the older MK sockets.
@pmailkeey
A socket requiring all three pins to be inserted at the same time was precisely what John demonstrated with the Hager and the newer MK designs.
Forcing people to switch the socket off before removing the plug probably has more safety hazards than it prevents. The reason IEC equipment connectors (like the one on the back of your computer, if you're in Europe) are so loose are so the cable is less of a trip hazard.
@pmailkeey I once had a thing called a "Fault Tolerant File Server" which was actually two servers copying each other's data.
We discovered that one fault they could not tolerate was an engineer tripping over both power cables at once. :)
Of course why, in an alleged 'computer room', they had to be powered by cables trailing over the floor is a different question.
@pmailkeey Not sure if it would have refused outright, but it certainly wouldn't have worked as intended.
What was installed was SCO Unix...
Please insert disk 2 of 96...
Around 1990, when I was a toddler, I used to like to pretend that any toy with a string, cord or strap was some kind of electrical appliance, and I would regularly "plug in" these toys by poking their "flex" into one of the holes on a socket. Fortunately, the shutters were there to prevent an accident. My favourite toy for this game was a pull-along spider with a nice white cord. If I licked the end to make it pointy, it could be made to wedge quite nicely between the plastic face of the socket and one of the MK Logic earth contacts. My Mum was terrified I was going to kill myself.
Our house had originally been fitted with unswitched Crabtree sockets in the early 1970s, but my Dad replaced them all with MK Logic in expectation of my arrival, having heard that those were meant to be more child-safe because of the unique shutter mechanism. Of course, the original sockets had shutters as well, but I think perhaps MK made it more of a selling point.
Ironically, I remember I quite enjoyed playing with the switches on the MK sockets! They had a satisfying snap action and bright red indicator patches!
Yup, the CEE 7/3 'Svhucko' plug and the others that share the 4.8mm pin dimensions and alignments really don't go into a BS 1363 socket in a useful way. However the 2.5 amp Europlug with its narrower 4mm posts hardly need any effort at all thankyouverymuch.
The problem I have found with Europlugs and BS1363 sockets is that due to the design and positioning off the pins the plugs can get stuck and scrape plastic off the side of the socket apertures or with certain styles of extension block even rip the whole front off the socket..
Hi, and thank you! I've got a highly experimental grandson and I'm going to review and if necessary change my builder installed British Standard sockets to more secure designs. Folks, not only can putting unfused plugs into sockets intended for fused plugs cause fires, bypassing that safety shutter can kill. BobUK.
Your comment about European plugs being a tight fit in the BS1363 sockets and damaging them over time applies only to the 3 contact 'Schuko' type F plug that you showed there . It does not apply to the far more common 2-pin European plug the type C. The Schuko plug has 4.8 millimetre diameter pins but the two pin European plug has 4mm diameter pins which is exactly the same as the thickness of UK pins and plugs in very smoothly to a UK socket of the sort where the earth pin opens the shutters. The modern type C also has shrouded pins just like a BS1363 plug.
Of course the non fuse protected 2-pin type C plugs are designed to be used on a maximum 16A circuit as you say, not the UK 32A ring main.
Those are only used for non earth protected and low amp devices.
Pluging those devices in 32A circuits is no problem as they only draw lower amperage than circuit is designed for.
Bybthe way, schuko plugs and sockets desigbed for max 16A are a real problem in some cases, internal conectors are sometimes too thin and fragile and some devices( Allthough they not necessary need kore than 16A) would be better served by sturdier connections and thicker conductors.
UK plugs and sockets designed for 32A seems much more apropriate for being used with serious hardware and there is no issue when they are used with lighter devices...
@@parintele- you misunderstand. The UK bs1363 plugs contain a fuse (13amps or less) to limit current if the is a fault. Therefore the circut to the UK socket can be rated at up to 32amp. A euro plug doesn’t have an internal fuse as it is meant to be plugged into a socket on a circuit limited to 16 amp or less.
The point of protection (againt over current) is implemented at a different point. Both systems are safe if used correctly. But using a non UK plug in a UK socket (without an approved and fused adaptor) IS NOT SAFE.
@@prduguid I've seen cooker-connection-unit with socket provided, on a 40A circuit (typically 6mm cable...=).
@@sbusweb yes that is completely standard in the UK even on a 45A cooker circuit. The plugged in item is still protected by the plug top fuse.
@@sbusweb yep, your right I had forgotten that case! It could also be 10mmsq cable. In any case even more a reason to not stuff a non fused plug in!
Can you (in a subsequent video) disassemble UK sockets with different shutter types to show how their internal mechanisms work/differ and compare with US shutter socket mechanisms?
MK socket: th-cam.com/video/H1gMYu5VHus/w-d-xo.html
Others: th-cam.com/video/kPpX1YXvGcg/w-d-xo.html
You used the earthed German type European plug to shove it in the older MK socket. The earthed ones use thicker pins. If you used an older unearthed German type plug or even a modern 2 pin Euro plug it probably would have worked ; they have thinner pins!
yep i thought the same
Or the thinner 5amp type 2 pin euro plug, like you often find on small appliances imported from abroad.
@@NOWThatsRichy The euro plug is restricted to 2.5 amps! I think the leads are required to be at least 0.75 mm², but that's mainly for mechanical strenght.
The cee 7/16 is the low power 2 pin one where the contacts normally flex enough to ram into sockets without issue.
7/7 as pictured and 7/17 (class II variant) don't generally fit as the pins are too robust
in places like dubai you can buy small plastic adaptors to fit a 2 pin euro plug into a UK socket. the adaptor has a plastic earth pin and then narrow plastic lugs about 5mm long which hold the adaptor into the live/neutral socket. once fitted into the UK socket you can push in the 2 pin euro plug without any shutter problems.
The MK and Hager not just being safer and better quality look much nicer with the rounded edges and switches, no reason to skimp on something that gets replaced so rarely.
Looks like Hagar have ripped off the MK design on those examples.
@pmailkeey Does anyone manufacture sockets with toggle switches?
Those hager ones are the same as schneider electric
Although it's been awhile since I've seen it, but I seem to remember a subject-appropriate scene in the movie Trainspotting. In it, one the main protagonists plugs in both a TV & an old top-loading VCR. Wouldn't be a big deal, except that if I remember right, both items had UK plugs w/o ground/earth pins.
1947? Wow! I was born in 1958 and remember Wylex plugs being used for a while. I did not know the current sockets had been around for so long.
Not only UK have them - they are standard here in Ireland for a long time too. I do remember having two different sizes of round plugs though.
Plenty of countries use them, I found it very strange being in the middle East and not needing an adaptor 😎 www.iec.ch/worldplugs/typeG.htm
I love that the IEC website says "British sockets have shutters on the live and neutral contacts so that foreign objects can’t be introduced into them."
Don't want those foreign appliances coming over here, stealing our Joules... 🤣
@@georgeprout42 Feckin brilliant :D
@pmailkeey The common sizes of BS546 were/are 2A, 5A and 15A (note: India and South Africa kept the 5A and 15A pin layouts but increased the current ratings to 6A and 16A) I understand there was also a 30A size but I think it was fairly uncommon.
@pmailkeey The 30A round pin BS546 socket was a rare sight. I used to carry out Periodic Inspection and Testing in the '90s and early 2000s and I only ever came across them in corridors of hospitals built in the '50s/'60s where they were used for portable X ray machines. The sockets were the typical well built construction of the period and if I remember correctly they were made by Walsall and had double pole switches made of two mercury tilt switches operated by a toggle switch on the front of the chromed face plate.
I have to admit that I've used the "shove something in the earth and shove a europlug in" once in a hotel, having arrived back in the UK late at night and realising that the only USB charger I had was the one that also acted as a european to UK converter.
1947, didn't know the square 3 pin was introduced then, I remember helping my father in late 70's, early 80's replacing the round 5 and 16 amp sockets with them. Round pin plugs were non fused if I remember correctly?, Were any round pin fused?.
Were the shaver 2 round pin plugs, smaller in diameter, ref intended for double insulated socket fitted in bathrooms?
Thanks for sharing.
There is a good web page on the topic at www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/OldBritish1.html
Round pin plugs with 3 pins commonly came in 2, 5 and 15 amp sizes, with matching sockets. No fuse was included as standard, but since these were not usually installed on 30 amp circuits, a fuse wasn't as important as it was for BS1363. However, it was possible to buy 5 amp plugs with fuses inside.
I gather that both 5 and 15 amp sockets tended to be installed on 15 amp circuits, and so there was little point in putting a fuse inside a 15 amp plug because it was already likely to be fused at 15 amps, but an argument could be made for including a fuse in a 5 amp plug.
The two pin plugs are dimensionally incompatible with the three-pin ones, but were originally used for a variety of appliances before being adopted for their modern-day use in bathrooms. My grandparents had a box full of them, including adaptors, which they had used for appliances prior to having BS1363 sockets installed in the 1980s. (With the help of (fused) adaptors, they continued to use them on table lamps into the 2000s.)
I remember seeing some 15A (I think - I was quite young at the time) round pins where the line pin was a ceramic cased fuse. I've had a quick google and can't find an example. I guess the fuses were proprietary to that brand of plug and must have had some threading or similar to stop the fuse from coming out and sticking in the socket when you unplugged it!
Have you Tryed a Smaller size in diameter Euro 2 pion plug in the Older style MK Socket ?
I have a French Euro socket extension lead with with a 13A fuse in the UK plug. For low power items I have a 2 pin extension with a 5A fuse in the UK plug.
Quality-wise, what would you say was better, MK or Hager?
The only thing I don't like about these outlets is you can't seem to connect them and fold the cables back into back box without exposing some copper ,the older style seemed to have a deeper entry for cables. I do like like the 3 pin safety shutter arrangement.
MK all the way! Although I still reckon the pre '96 (Logic) accessories were better than the newer (Logic Plus) range.
Hager. MK used to be good but it's gone right downhill. Take it from someone that changes them day in day out! New MK stuff has tiny terminals and screws. Screws round off easily too. Hager have nice big terminals and deep screws for good purchase. Old MK was excellent. The outsourcing to Mexico ruined it.
Thank you John . Interesting to see that the shutters could be defeated on the cheaper socket , i can imagine some europeans holiday makers staying in say perhaps guest houses putting something in the earth pin so they can use their device without an adapter. Obviously most would hopefully get an adapter before travelling.
luckily, British tourists cant do the same in rest of Europe xD Forcing rectangular pins into round holes would destrowy half of a wall xD
@@sumilidero That's true there are some silly people of all nationalities i am sure.
Batam also use a British Standard like socket etc. (Ex-British Colony) and people who travel from other indonesia/europe to Batam they do insert the european plug into a UK socket with key or other metal part inserted to earth pin to open the shutter and put the two pins into UK socket, they dont know how dangerous it is when german/euro plug inserted into UK socket. standard shutter mechanism socket are very common here like schneider brand (cheaper). hager and MK with special shutter mechanism are not common, not many people use that brand. here made in UK hager/MK socket are really expensive than UK price.
What kind of 3-phase plugs and sockets are used in UK?
These and similar: uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/1365698/
although most homes don't have 3 phase and there are no 3 phase appliances intended for home use either.
Mk logic did need both pins to open shutters. Anyone remember stuffing bare wired into holes and jamming a plug in? Double socktttt
th-cam.com/video/8zt50lz-NVQ/w-d-xo.html
Growing up in the 70's it seemed to be a regular thing! Even at the age of 9 or 10 I remember doing it, thankfully times have changed and hopefully people no longer do it
in 2008 new codes required use of "tamper resistant" (shuttered) sockets here in the US ... sadly I've found thus far that manufacturers have really poor success in making a system that works reliably and consistently... I have TR sockets in many areas of my house... and almost none of them open that nicely for a "properly compliant" plug in our system.... most of them have to wiggle and jam to get in the plug... which really makes it feel unsafe, as unlike the UK system, we have no reach around protection, so seems like it really could cause more issue than it solves.
Typically USA. They should adopt UK or European systems, including all the metric goodness. But no, beeing stubborn as they are, they'd rather have a load of electrocution victims on their hands!
It's not difficult to see why the US sockets would not lend themselves well to reliably retrofit shuttered sockets. There isn't really enough space around the pins to do a good enough job reliably. Not much can be done about it now as there are billions of such sockets in service.
round pin plugs now that takes me back to my not so distant past....heres a old tale from my childhood to my adultness...... my grans house (old back to back terraced with outside bog....we had one bult inside in 50's) had round pin til my dad got it all rewired after gran went into nursing home. i stayed there weekends to see dad. the electrics was obviously outdated, and a farce trying to plug things in as you had to have an adaptor or wire the applience to the roundpin plugs. we didnt run that much anyway in our round pin days, didnt have a fridge.....we stored things in cellar, didnt have a washer....was all done by hand ...i dont remember a washer anyway only the reight old 40's/50's spinner that didnt work, just one telly downstairs, an hoover and i do mean a ligit retro hoover...we had a couple of those that we actually used up till about 1997-ish !!!.
when my dad sorted house out fully in 1998 he got most things we needed, fridge, washer...the basics. but he ran a pub out of town and i went to live with him and his partner there, then had to move back to the old home in 1999 and back to absolutly freezing to death in winters as we had a boiler but no central heating...that came later after i moved out.
i had gone to visit my dad at the house a few times and was shocked at how much it had altered....all new, new windows, doors, bathroom, fire place, kitchin all brand new i didnt recognise it 1st time i visited.
dad eventually sold the place and buggered off for a new life in fife, it didnt go for asking price even though it was all done out and modernised....nobody wanted a small 20's terraced back to back house. its really struggled to get an owner, after the 2008 struggle to sell it, it was last baught in 2011...so one of the house price history sites say anyway. i look at photos of it now in the estate agents sites, and reminise back to when i stayed and lived there......everyone always grows too attached to things, we shouldnt..... but we do. you can alter something till the cows fart and fly off....but you cant take the memories away.
"They haven't actuall made those sockets for some time" -- Afaict this is not entirely true, the modern MK standard-size sockets use the 3 pin mechanism, but (at least according to the pictures in the catalogue) the "mini logic" and "panel mount" sockets still use the 2-pin operated mechanism.
(note: this reply was originally replying to a post asking about floor sockets which seems to have disappeared)
@Jack Marley Looking at the catalog that indeed appears to be the case. The picture shows the old "2-pin" shutter, the notes say "rotary operated shutter" and the part numbers do not start with a "K".
Would you say the three pronged plastic protectors made to childproof sockets are rather redundant?
Totally pointless, and in some cases they can actually damage the socket or break off inside as they are never the correct size.
+Jamie Pope
See Page:- www.fatallyflawed.org.uk
Well known issue!
Thank you!
They are not advised to use anymore because they encouraged children to try and remove them.
@@jwflame
Worse, many of them did not fully cover the holes and allowed objects like pins to be inserted.
I stick a plastic pin into the earth section and then push the two pins plug part in. It's a laptop plug with a big bulky attachment.
Hello John! Question for you. Are there different grades of sockets available in the UK or are they pretty much all the same? We in North America have like "Residential" grade, various kinds of "Specification" grade and even a "Hospital" Grade sockets of varying degrees.... Just curious...
Just BS1363 and BS1363A (rubberized for extension leads). AFAIK.
They make all metal receptacles and pattress boxes for places like garages and factories.
I'm not sure that there are official standards, but there are certainly sockets of different quality and robustness. For example, I fitted metal clad sockets in my garage, and they are considerably more robust than the plastic domestic ones. Those sort of sockets tend to get specified for factory environments, hospitals or anywhere else where they might get a lot of abuse. If surface mounted, in industrial environments, the cables are run in galvanised steel tubing.
However, even in the field of domestic sockets there are vast differences. There are dozens of different styles available which become part of the decor. So, you can get those white plastic ones, but if you want brushed stainless steel, you can have those, or antique-effect metal finish, of grey metal, black metal, mirror finish, nickel plated and so on. A lot of the more expensive ones are inherently tougher as they usually have metal faceplates with plastic insets round the pin holes.
There are also industrial power sockets, which are a completely different set of designs for use on high powered equipment, often three-phase. Those sort of sockets often have features such as a degree of water and splash resistance and won't be used in a domestic environment (but may be found in some hospital settings), but conform to international standards IEC standards.
There's also BS 546 for lighting rings that are non fused plugs at 2, 5 and 15 amps.
REWYRED the only one of those that actually has any sort of regulatory meaning is "hospital grade." The others are marketing wank. Yes, typically, one company's "commercial" grade will be more robust than their "residential" grade, which will, in turn, be better than their "builder's grade." But you can't use those to compare across manufacturers.
Personally, some of the builder's grade outlets are a safety hazard as far as I'm concerned. My brother recently bought a house built in 1995. There were a couple outlets that didn't work. So I checked them out, and found that the outlets are all entirely made of junk quality plastic, including the mounting frame, with the exception of the actual contact terminals. And that plastic had become brittle and the outlet physically broke from behind, leaving the wires (which naturally were connected to the flimsy push-in connectors instead of the screw terminals) hanging loose. I replaced those outlets with good ones, then showed my brother how to replace them, bought a whole case of new outlets, and he's gradually replacing all of them as he gets time. Retail price for the cheapest acceptable quality is like $1/each if you get a 10 pack. Did the builder really save that much using these horrible things?
Hi John, I was hoping you would dismantle the sockets to see the actual mechanism used to raise/lower the shutters in each case - can you do a follow up video??? It was an interesting video nevertheless, I was not aware of the 'modern' three-pins-required-at-once style of socket. Thanks.
MK socket: th-cam.com/video/H1gMYu5VHus/w-d-xo.html
Others: th-cam.com/video/kPpX1YXvGcg/w-d-xo.html
Does the UK have extension cords? If so do the sockets on those have shutters too?
maxiboyfm3a yes we do have extension cords and yes they have the same shutters as the BS1363 standards apply to them all. Even the cheapo poundland versions have them.
Yes, and yes.
What about the socket you see on eBay which will take every type of plug. They are very popular in China and adapters come with many thing you buy from China
BigClive calls them (most appropriately) Deathadaptors. Horrid things - don't use them.
The flat Europlug connector ("CEE 7/16 plug") as described at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europlug has smaller pins (4 mm diameter) than the "Schuko" mains connector (pins of 4.8 mm diameter) you tried to put in. The Europlug pins are small enough that they can fit to many UK outlets without too much pushing. It is demonstrated in this picture th-cam.com/video/fi5_CTBnDgc/w-d-xo.html and I have tested that it has worked in practice. Plugging in un-fused Europlug rated for voltages up to 250 V and currents up to 2.5 A to an UK outlet is a really bad idea on the electrical safety viewpoint - plug rated for 2.5A poorly mated to outlet rated for maximum 13A current and this protected with up to 30A or 32A fuse on the mains panel.
The UK & Ireland you have my permission to say Ireland as well 😉
Don't forget Malta. Or Oman. Or, meh, here's a list
www.iec.ch/worldplugs/typeG.htm
I'd wondered when the sockets changed, but never thought it was as long ago as that. When did the colours of the wires change?
1971 for appliance flex, 2006 for installed wiring cables.
@@jwflame Thanks for the info.
Afaict while BS1363 was standardized in 1943 it took quite a while to become dominant with both the older BS546 and various propietary types remaining in use.
`We had the round pin plugs until the house was rewired in the early 70's
There will always be some idiot who will appempt to insert a round pin plug into a UK socket. Another thing is those dreadful plastic moulded earth pin on some appliances. They have a tendency to break off within a socket making it very difficult to reinsert in a different socket, also making the orignal socket unusable.
Can you do a vid on non standard UK plugs?
Wasall guage, MK T shaped Earth BS546 etc
Already done years ago, th-cam.com/video/Bk4ORXrz_l8/w-d-xo.html
5:33 love that sound!
EN50075 2,5A europlug fits BS1363 if the shutters are not in place.
Do you have a cat? My hand also looks similar.
twitter.com/jwflame/status/1056187798917652480/photo/1
I have a black cat and almost everyone I am subbed to on youtube have a black cat. Hmmmm
by the way john i got more bits for you whats your po box ? some really good stuff :)
xo4.uk/?YTT
I laughed at JW's half-hearted attempts to fit a Euro plug into the UK socket. In Australia we have 10A, 15A, 20A and 32A sockets which all look almost identical. They are designed so that any socket will accept same or lower rated plugs, but not higher rated plugs. Details: www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/Australian_3hd.html
Anyway, how does everyone use (say) a 15A welder in a standard 10A socket? EASY - just file down the earth pin.
We Aussies would have no problem fitting the Euro plug into ANY UK socket.
Our sockets in the UK are the best and safest in the world.. No competition
I'd say they're on a par with the Australian ones.
Mk
Contactum
Crabtree
Click mode
Wessex
BG
Axiom
Which ....do the people think
MK first choice, second choice Crabtree or Contactum, third choice Click Mode, Varilight are also good and Hager. Axiom is made by CED.
@@LittleRichard1988 thanks . 🙋👍👏
Type I wall socket does not have shutters
Dastardly and Mutley. 😁😁
Hager sockets are best quality
Hi John nice video, may I suggest some healing hand cream your hands must have been fishing out cables in voids all week by the looks of them they look very sore!
Take care of yourself mate
Kind regards Warren
John looks like he's been boxing with a metal screen door! Ouch!
Oh yeah yeah
Ping!
I thought there was something wrong with my ears the first time that happened.
I remember that when I was a child, 1992-2000 - these were standard, and the pong sound is made by the earth contacts 🤗
Sounded like a tuning fork ringing off :)
I checked phone the first time :)
Give me a ping Vasili, one Ping only please...
th-cam.com/video/jr0JaXfKj68/w-d-xo.html
Cheapomatic 😂
Ok what about ABB 2000
Ping
UK socket needs rework.
Times are since long gone when a house has one socket in the living room for a TV and one in the kitchen for a water heater.
It is bulky, old-fashioned, obsolete crap today and unfortunately I have to use this crap still.
Erik Johansson they are dimensioned that way for logical reasons which are part of the intrinsic safety design. Also as has been pointed out they are in fact the most modern design so claiming it is old fashioned and obsolete is very wide of the mark.. When we moved into our current house 8 years ago we had a full rewire because it only had a single (yes single) outlet in each room. It was built in 1960 so long gone? Well perhaps not so much as you think. Perhaps you'd enlighten us all as to how you'd changed the design in such a way that would retain the intrinsic safety?
Robin Turner Type N socket is far more up to date considering all the consumers that are connected in each and every room.
One need half a meter of sockets using this old fashioned monstrosity per room.
But it has a fuse you may argue, and you are right.
At least where I am the fuse comes as default at 13Amps 240VAC no matter if the consumer at the other end of the cable is a small 500mA charger.
I would be fine without that fuse and most people would be too.
Vast majority of countries don't use fused plugs and they are fine still.
But it has shutters you may argue and that is true too. And it is truly the only good thing with this monster contraption.
But, I can go to IKEA even and buy small plastic covers to plug in and no small hands will remove those.
As for those who still manage to use a plug / socket wrongly perhaps poking it with keys or nails.
Get a shock and drop as far as I am concerned or live in the eoods without electricity.
Jack Marley Smart meters? Old fashioned? Go fuck yourself.
Erik Johansson so wrong on many counts and no you can't buy socket covers from IKEA they no longer sell them as they recognise the issues and in any case they are actually banned in ALL NHS premises and schools. Factually accuracy is important and sadly missing. And descending to profanity destroys any credibility you may have had.
Just wasted 10mins of my life 😴