What Happened To The Sequel Trilogy - Star Wars
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 มิ.ย. 2021
- #StarWars #SequelTrilogy #JJAbrams,
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Recently JJ Abrams did an interview where he expressed his regret that the sequel trilogy wasn't planned out. That left me personally looking back on the sequels myself and just asking the question What Happened to the Sequels? And how did we go from where we were when this was all first announced to where we are now?
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Paul Duncan on George Lucas’ plan for his sequel trilogy: twitter.com/kershed/status/1326134062457688069?s=21
I'm sorry dude, but you citing Daisy Ridley saying J.J. had written drafts isn't very strong evidence for your point, as she has frequently contradicted herself multiple times on how the Sequels were being managed and planned out. She has, on multiple occasions, spilled certain rumours, but they contradict each other, and on multiple occasions she has also said J.J. didn't write story drafts and instead made it up as he went along (Rey's parents constantly changing, for example). She also said that the Sequels had no plan lol. So therefore, you've cherrypicked Daisy saying something out of many cases she's said other things, which contradict everything she says - a bit of a word salad, but that's the point; Daisy isn't reliable.
J.J. loved Rian's story, insofar to say that he wish he wrote the exact same one. So no, there wasn't really a different vision between J.J. and Rian - not really, J.J. was the one who set up Rian for little freedom to follow up on everything he set up in Episode 7 - which is a bad reflection on J.J., a "mystery box" bad storyteller, rather than being a bad reflection on Rian. Rian didn't write the whole story of Episode 8 before Episode 7 - that's a lie - rather, he wrote Episode 8 based off the outline that J.J. was developing for Episode 7 (Rian never chose Luke to be on exile, J.J. did, so Rian had to figure out why Luke was exile - this is what Mark Hamill meant in that clip where he said J.J. had a different vision for Luke than Rian did. I'm kinda tired of J.J. being treated like a true Star Wars visionary. The man constantly disregarded the Prequels and was clearly invested in the idea of A New Hope inspired Episode 7 which set up mystery boxes that had little thematic substance.
Ultimately, J.J. and Disney are to blame for the failure and mismanagement of the Sequels. Every single person behind these films have made contradictory statements about the plan of this trilogy which don't align with other statements that other people behind these films have made. There is no universal truth on how these films were managed. However a TH-cam creator by the name Nerdonymous made their best effort to boil down the truth, and managed to reach the most realistic truth possible on this whole subject.
I think Nerdonymous made the best video on this discussion, although you did an excellent job of it. He analyses - for over three hours - who was really to blame for the Sequels not having a plan and being unstructured, and he ultimately concludes that it is J.J.
I think it's time to stop blaming Rian Johnson for what J.J. Abrams set up, as Rian didn't really have much to work with at all. Rian isn't a bad storyteller, J.J. is. Rian didn't mess up or fail to follow up what J.J. set up, and J.J. never had a plan; J.J. set up a bunch of terrible plotlines he called "mystery boxes" which never actually presuppsedly fulfil the mysteries set-out and are really just made up as he goes along. Rian stated in interviews that Rey being a nobody was simply a dramatic choice that Rey would hate to hear most in the situation at hand - which assumes J.J.'s mystery box was still continuing and Rey wouldn't actually be a nobody - J.J. had a level of control over the Sequels and ultimately, that control created a terribly outlined story which betrayed Lucas' story treatments (which Arndt respected but was kicked off for various reasons).
Ultimately, Abrams is a terrible storyteller and Rian didn't have much to work with considering Luke being in exile doesn't have many explanations - and Rian likely chose the best one - and all other storylines he set up were mere cookiecutters rather than anything of planned substance. Nerdonymous goes into far more detail about what I'm stating here.
I'd argue if Rian Johnson had full creative control of the Sequels, they would have been far better films helmed by an auteur akin and loyal to the autuership of Lucas. Other than that alternate reality, a more realistic preference would have been to let Trevorrow write and direct Episode 9, not... gosh darn J.J.
So, although I love this video a whole lot and you as a person and channel, I think you give Johnson too much flack and J.J. too much apologia.
J.J. was a terrible person to handle the beginning of this trilogy and form the rough outline for it (he didn't even respect the Prequels whatsoever), and Rian isn't to blame for his inadequacy. It's as simple as that.
The Sequels needed a plan which was George Lucas' story treatments that Michael Arndt tried best to be loyal to. It's as simple as that. Arndt was a blessing in disguise - #ReleaseTheArndtScreenplay
@@Lunar_Pendragon From my research, it seems more of a case that Ardnt's screenplay differed to that of Lucas's treatments. Certain plot points for ep 7 that Ardnt wrote don't line up with what Lucas mentioned he wanted the story to be about.
I think that after Lucas left the process, Ardnt tried to maintain Lucas's vision for the script but was constantly having to alter more and more of it to account for Abrams vision for ep 7. By the end, a compromised script between Lucas and Abrams vision had been made and Ardnt left the process.
So I think it's less so a case of #ReleaseTheArdntScreenplay and instead more a case of #ReleaseTheLucasTreatments.
@OneMoreMinute05: Do you know of anything specific about the plot points from Arndt’s screenplay?
A few years ago, I remember reading that one of the original driving forces for the story of Episode 7 was Luke and Rey searching for the remains of Darth Vader. There’s concept art of Luke holding Vader’s burnt helmet, so I think there’s definitely some truth to that info.
@@jackcapellini113 That wasn’t the script either. Ardnt never finished his draft of VII and famously said he kept Luke out of the script because he had no idea how to use him in the context of VII’s story
There was concept art of Rey Searching for pieces of the map to Luke Skywalker but it never went beyond concept Art.
@The First Okiro: Ooh yeah! I totally forgot about that! Thanks for reminding me about that.
Why do you think Lucasfilm brought back Palpatine for TROS? Do you think it was part of Abrams’s original plan for the ST (assuming he had one), or do you think it was a last minute decision?
As I said in my reply to the other user below, when you look back at the tie-in material for TFA, they seem to have been laying the groundwork for Palpatine’s return in the ST (Palpatine wanting to explore the unknown regions and the existence of dark side cults like the Acolytes of the Beyond).
I still can’t believe there was not one scene of Han, Leia and Luke together in these movies. What a missed opportunity.
Why would we want that? After I saw rotj my thought was “man I really hope whatever happens next hs little to nothing to do with the entire main cast of Star Wars,but instead has Chinese bootleg versions of them instead! Ya ya for pandering to toxic prequel haters!” (Sarcasm)
They probably would've just fucked up the character dynamic just like they fucked everything else up.
To me the story shouldve continued from where it left off.
Everyone living in coresant happy until the new threat arrives. That's what I was expecting.
Not this garbage
@@Diao7 yes and Luke goes around doing vigilante work.
The easy option would have been to bloody well start it like that! they tried to be clever slowly introducing the classic characters as if they're "big reveals" and then killing them off one by one which was a huge waste of time. Building each up, and knocking them down for little payoff or point just absorbed too much of the film time. It's like they revolved the films around killing them each one by one as "tent pole" events, so even those didn't come across natural either - it all felt so forced and inevitable.
Why not actually feature all the main characters in the first film? maybe 2 or 3 tragically die in a proper sacrifice near the end of first film? (or halfway through second). Murdered by a student or outside force we didn't see coming - NOT an already bad-guy ex-student. That would have been more epic and given space for Lukes other "good" apprentices to carry the candle. Actual apprentices from Lukes school rather than some Mary Sue girl who just bumbles her way through saving the galaxy. Ok, i'm no writer and there are many ways to make it better - it's just so much easier to think up better general outlines for the story. The sequels just meandered between goals and there was never any big sense of flow or structure.
You simply have to have the wide angle sorted out before the details, it's like they never stood way way back from the story and made some basic outline. They were lost in the forest through the entire writing process and never had a map.
All I can say is that..... The Sequel trilogy was a missed opportunity.
Yep yep
Not just a missed opportunity, but the biggest potential mind blowing Star Wars films ever released. George worked with what he had on the first six (granted, the scale for the prequels was very impressive). VII-IX had the largest potential scale we could’ve ever seen. They could’ve planned out everything, had amazing characters, incredible visual and audio effects, captivating plot, etc. not to mention money was literally no question, which it was for George in his respective times. All they had to do was work with Luke and Ben Solo restoring the rubble of the Galaxy and creating peace while various factions pop up in resistance to the paths they use to do it. Rey comes from one these resistance groups perhaps as a child of light or something. Boom in a few sentences you have an already unique Rey and a better use of Luke and Ben and a more impactful inevitable turn to Kylo (when Ben discovers his grandfathers past and decides Luke is wrong for some reason). They should’ve made them darker, more passionate, more character choices and sacrifices. In the end agenda wins
Also, it leaves a HUGE lasting stain on the entire Star Wars lore.
Reconciling all that mess the Sequel Trilogy brought into the canon will take years and years to gradually clean up within the new Expanded Universe and the question is whether Disney will even bother to do it or if they even allow anyone willing to proceed with it.
@@JJ-zo7jv yeah but as Lucas said, Star Wars is a soap opera (space Opera), and he also said it's like a song, it rhymes.
The stories of Ben and Rey, on paper fit George's modes of persuasion perfectly.
The Jedi don't train family members, haven't performed nepotism for thousands of years. With the attachments rule came a demilitarized Galaxy that was relatively at peace. They avoid attachments that can potentially manipulate galaxy effecting decisions. Attachments that can exploit them.
Anakin arrives, and he's attached to his mother and Padme. He kills his mother's slavers and implodes the Jedi to save his wife and unborn "child."
Luke goes after his father against the wishes of Yoda and Obi wan. Luke is successful but still thinks he can maintain attachments. He trains Ben, his nephew, and can't for the life of him, create a contingency for his students, figure out what should be done if someone you love turns dark.
Ben Solo implodes the Jedi, helps destroy several planets and billions of lives, just like his grandfather.
The backdrop of the sequel trilogy is as organic of a sequel as it can get.
What doesn't fit are the emotional and logical traction building techniques of JJ Abrams. JJ Abrams is a horrible writer.
One example is Rey. Again her story/origins is awesome. But she doesn't act or is written in a way that builds logical and emotional traction. I don't see a character, with an emotional wound such as being an orphan, turn away BB8, have those type of feminist interactions with Finn, and turn down Han Solo's job offer. I'm not saying that it's impossible, but a character's emotional wound is like the wind that moves a kite (character/plot). And it needs to be easily understandable to the audience. And JJ fails at that all the time.
Had jj paid attention to the emotional wound of the character. He would have written an entirely different film. But he stole the Rey's time on Jakku from a movie called Turbo Kid that was released a year earlier. That and he added on to a script that was written by a Toy Story writer. It's a complete hack job.
I can't look at the sequel trilogy as canon. I'd say it was more like a big budget fan fiction story, but fan fiction is usually at least done by someone who is a fan.
It's interesting how the sequel trilogy kind of proved that Lucas was right to go against the corporate Hollywood system with the original films. It's well documented that Lucas fought hard to keep his films untainted by corporate Hollywood, and the moment corporate Hollywood got their grubby hands on Star Wars, it instantly became a trainwreck. Star Wars became the very thing it sought to destroy.
The Mandalorian is better than Lucas' prequels, his shitty ewoks movies, 80s cartoons, and some (ia the creators of South Park) even argue that's it's better than RotJ.
Lucas made a lot of crap, and he's the one who appointed the current president of Lucasfilm
Lucas is full of shit, everything after Empire is a toy commercial.
Are we talking about the same Lucas who did the special edition?
@@ShantyIrishman You have no idea what you are talking about.
@@kevinkerkhoff6670 Crapping on The Special Edition and Lucas is tired and played out, it's people like you who are the reason Lucas sold off Star Wars.
Disney's handling was very disappointing, and more annoying that they wasted Carrie's last works on this.
I'll never forgive them for that. That we'll never get to see the OT trio on-screen again. If they rebooted tomorrow, and somehow talked Harrison back (hey, he came back for TROS) we still wouldn't get it. feh.
Disney didn't handle it. Kathleen Kennedy did.
And in George Lucas's treatment she would have been the chosen one. Disney, Jar Jar Abrams and Kathleen Kennedy robbed her of her destiny, straight up robbed her.
@@Werrf1 With Disney's full approval.
@@WedgeOfSpite This is why i HATE the Sequel Trilogy, people dont like the word hate when it comes to these movies, they see it as controversial because they associate the "hate" with backlash and arguments and fighting on social media. I don't hate Sequel fans and i don't hate the Actors of those movies they were just doing a job, they were not in charge of the writing itself.
I blame and hate JJ for not having balls to stand upto Kennedy and make it clear just how imperative it was that those movies needing careful planning from the start, consistency and to work from Lucas' treatments as the backbone. And i hate Rian because his whole approach to Ep8 was very cynical, he didn't care about being consistent, he only cared about telling his stupid vague, "deconstruction" of mythos story, disrespecting characters and dividing the audience.
I also hate Rian alot because he had the utter cheek to tell 10 year old fans that their "Snoke Theory Sucks", just because he could not accept fans had actually came up with very interesting theories behind who and what Snoke is; and he hadn't even bothered to come up with nothing on Snoke. And he dismissed ALL our criticisms of his TLJ movie, acting like it's perfect, like some spoilt teacher's pet, hiding behind Kathy Kennedy believing himself to be untouchable at that point.
Sure he tried to explain his reasons which even then came off as pretentious and not even making sense e.g. Luke chooses to shut himself off completely from the force, effectively abandoning his sister, leaving her to fight the First Order and Snoke alone; and his reason? He believes it's better to stay out of it, not involve the Jedi and then darkness will not rise again. LOL which does'nt make a lick of sense when at this point Luke clearly knew about Snoke, that it was Snoke who somehow managed to corrupt his nephew from afar and turn him against him. I don't care what any Sequel defender says that does'nt make sense!
And back in early 2018 when the backlash was blowing up on the internet, many fans were trying to make sense of Luke's actions in TLJ. They put these questions to Rian Johnson, they challenged his own ideas and writing logic for this hugely vague backstory, and Rian didn't know how to handle it, so he lashed out and became antagonistic, the tweets are all there.
Rian knows he slipped up big time, deep down he knows this! But he will never admit it not even to himself. He focused too much on writing Luke Skywalker from a realist perspective, but didn't bother to think of the implications such writing would have on the LORE.
Remember these are Fantasy characters in a Space Opera setting, Han, Luke, Leia they're not meant to reflect the our REAL WORLD.
I don't hate Rian Johnson in that i'm calling for his head pitchfork type thing, i would never write death threats, but i do hate him in that i will never forgive him for the damage he caused, same with JJ and especially same with Kathy Kennedy.
The sequels just needed a plan. Any plan that all 3 directors HAD to follow. Allowing each director to come up with their own stuff was the problem in my opinion. Also a trilogy is one story told over 3 films. The sequels are not that. They’re 3 films separate films that don’t really want to be connected. They all have the same characters and actors but you can feel each film fighting with the others.
They also do legimitimate damage to the storyline so now TLJ and TROS are the only movies that technically matter. TLJ blew up the storyline and made TFA pointless, and TROS makes 1-6 pointless.
@@virgogaming6488 TROS also made chunks of the TLJ pointless.
@@shazattack3711 The only important things carried over are Luke and Snoke are dead and Ben's redemption is set up.
@ max hocks, What you say is absolutely true but episode 7 should have already had an original scenario, with new well-written characters and not just a bad copy-paste with uninteresting and incoherent characters.
@@philippealain-art I agree. Some of my favorite Star Wars things have been original stories. I would have loved an original scenario that took things in a new and unique direction.
If Finn were a bad ass, force sensitive ex-storm trooper, integral to the success of the resistance, yet conflicted about his past who, in an epic fight with Phasma saves Rey from certain doom...then little boys would be running around right now shouting "I'm Finn. pew, pew" and Star Wars would still be a cultural phenomenon instead of every 40 something dad's disappointment.
That's definitely one thing that went wrong...
I was actually interested in where his story would go after Awakens, turns out it went nowhere until the last 30 mins of Rise. And still it was meh. I was hoping for a hidden control chip inserted by the first order for their troopers, but the conditioning angle was dropped. Plus him and Rey should've been love interest and not the weird shit with her and Kylo.
Finn should have been the protagonist learning about the force as an ex storm trooper. Would have been brilliant. The new Luke Skywalker.
@@markcubanz43 They teased that in the original trailer with him and the lightsaber at the end. Then they proceeded to say, "HAH GOTCHA!" and pulled the rug out from under everybody, including John Boyega himself. Just sad.
@Anon that didn't bother me as much because the movie was still pretty fun and it was always gonna be hit or miss. Just could've went in a better direction afterwards.
All I want is lucas’s story. The man made Star Wars and my childhood
#ReleaseTheLucasSequelTrilogy
Amen
Why? What makes you think it was better? They all failed their audience. How's about none of them, give a new group a chance to reinvent the saga.
And then destroyed both with the prequels.
@@yooyhooh5833 no
I largely blame Kathleen Kennedy as with her being the head of Lucasfilm, she was the closest person who could have overseen the trilogy, but she just let the directors do what ever they wanted and now we have a narrative mess.
She’s a good manager but not a creative mind. She doesn’t know how to identify a good idea and develop it
@@Runz32 have you met her? She doesn't have any leadership skills whatsoever
What's your opinion on geeks and gamers
@@ryanbarth6691 I think Jeremy at least often speaks a lot of sense. Especially about the shitty Star Wars Sequels. But hey, they got a diverse crew behind the scenes, don't believe the bullshit claims of them being Far Right. They're just people with opinions who want the best for their favorite franchises. Sometimes that requires calling out companies on shitty ideas.
@@arthurballs9632 I said manager not leader. George Lucas and Steven Spielberg had her produce their biggest films so she has to have project manager skills- ie keeping the trains running on time, managing a budget etc. but she clearly doesn’t have a creative bone in her body and that’s on George for making it a condition of the sale of lucasfilms that she be put in charge
The biggest mistake was losing George and going a more corporate route. Star Wars was always a passion project, or at least it felt that way, and it just happened to bring in a lot of money. The second Disney bought Lucasfilm, they had announcements and plans for movies that were never even named, written, not even budgeted, and you had expectations for when these movies were going to come out. That's not to say that George was going to have the best story, when you hear about some of the things he had thought up, yeah, it's a bit out there, probably too weird, but then you have the stuff that still makes it a Star Wars movie, and he had the main vision to make things consistent and make sense. Absolutely, anyone being there for the whole ride and steering the ship would be better than what happened, but the thing is, at least when it came to the movies, George knew how to make the stories feel consistent with one another, and I don't even get that with The Force Awakens.
Okay scratch that, the real biggest mistake was George selling Lucasfilm in the middle of Clone Wars' run. Dude, how could you do that? I'm not going to say that everything was perfect, but we had a good six years of Dave Filoni and Pablo Hidalgo telling the broad strokes of what the remaining story arcs were, there was actually a plan in place to end the show all the way back in 2012 that would have ended the show in like 2015. And I guess George was also still working on doing a Sequel Trilogy himself, honestly I find the notion of a Sequel Trilogy superfluous as the main story really feels like it ends with Return of the Jedi despite the logistical problems that would remain that we've seen be explored a bit in The Mandalorian, but that's besides the point. And I know it wouldn't have been as technologically advanced as what we got for a Final Season, but getting Clone Wars in its own singular run would have been glorious than having it brought back and concluded three times with Netflix and story reels and then Disney+. Oh well, I guess there's an alternate universe that got a better deal than we did.
how could he do that? following the prequel trilogy he was hated by fandom to point of death threats. Long before media coined the term "toxic fandom" it was considering COOL to hate on the prequels and everyone involved to point that Mr Best almost committed suicide, and NO ONE CARED. It wasn't until the sequels and because ppl like Darth Kennedy were in charge that suddenly it was NOT cool to hate or criticize or mock the creators or actors. When hate was directed towards ppl like Mr Lucas, Mr Best, Mr Christensen, Mr Lloyd, it was all about "they're big boys, they can take a few knocks!". But suddenly when the targets were women and minorities, suddenly media was all about 'toxic fandom" and "fan hate"
how bad was it? Don't forget that there was a movie called "The People vs George Lucas" that was absolutely vicious toward Mr Lucas. And it was very popular (you may have seen or heard of it) and it was considered "fair game". If such a movie came out for Ms Kennedy, how fast would media and twitter mobs call it "Fandom Menace" or "Toxic masculinity" or some such dismissal? And after TFA, fandom and media were like "Disney has made SW great again!". It was only by TRoS did everyone realize just what a mess things were
between fan hate and Mr Lucas not willing/interested in devoting years of his life to making more movies (he is/was also raising a family), he was in an untenable situation where is seemed a good idea to let someone else take over and do the heavy lifting. Only with hindsight does EVERYONE see how badly that went. But who imagined we would come to this back in 2015?
I think it brought in alot of money because ultimately, on a subconscious level, Lucas had a vision, he told a very unique story and drew inspiration from many different mythologies. And this story resonated with a lot of people across the globe, it's timeless, universal, a story with compelling characters that both young and older minds could relate to. Thats what ultimately made all the big money, because even though Lucas wasn't thinking first and foremost about making shit load of money, once his story was visualized and told on the "big screen", it became so unique to people that it was a cultural phenomenon.
Plus because Lucas had wrestled with Hollywood Town and fought to get a studio to pick up his story, and most of those studios scoffed at him, laughed him out the door and basically didn't believe in him. Lucas eventually found a studio and producer who did take a chance in him (Gary Kurtz), and Lucas was wise and clever, and he had enough business sense to retain all the rights to his property, and merchandise rights where again, ignorant toy companies ignored his story.
So when his movie blew up, he had already put in place somekind of merchandising rights to get toys and merch made for his first Star Wars movie before it came out, so that the merch would follow shortly after the movie's release, and by that point it just blew up and people were hungry for the product, so Lucas was already onto a huge winner.
Theres not alot of Filmmakers that have managed to do exactly what George Lucas has done, as genius as he is even Spielberg's never done this. Jim Cameron is desperately trying to do something like this, but he will fail.
I just feel so sorry for George Lucas all these years later with how the Sequels turned out, its obviously he can't say alot about it cause its just not in his hands anymore, he (unwisely) chose to sell it to the wrong people, but you can tell he is hurt by how it's all gone.
I'd like to think he has som faith in what Jon Favreau and Dave Filloni are "trying" to do though.
MCLegoboy I like this term where Star Wars went a *Corporate route.* I feel like people can understand how corporate profit motive can make a film both an artless husk yet still *entertaining.* The Sequels feel like corporate FILTH, like members on a board decided what's in it for max profit, to cater to mass audiences like kids - uh oh, that's the prequels also. IMO the prequels feel like half corporate route, half original trilogy/Lucas brain.
Come on .. George's prequels were panned by elements of the fandom who can blame him for not wanting to continue. Toxic adult fans over analysing movies targeted at 8-15 year olds have a lot to answer for.
@@jamesneese7663 Since Star Wars is like the biggest entertainment thing ever and there was decades between the original trilogy I don't think it was even possible for Lucas (or anyone) to make the prequels A+.
That said, without his wife's massive help he had in the originals, he made some severely horrific choices in the prequels and does deserve massive, permanent criticism. It wasn't me that made the choice to show the most icon villain ever as a............. little whiny kid.......... or change the force to be quantifiable.
So this whole 'Lucas was shamed by the public' just is a nonstarter for so many of us. Like, Lucas, grow a pair and show us you can do better this next time instead of selling it do Disney for your own profit$$$$$. This entirely came off as a whiny billionaire fucking the rest of us over by turning star wars into corporate filth.
And as for the toxic fandom/woke/suddenly targets are females/minorities thing - this is merely all a product of the corporate media and both parties dividing us emotionally so the corporations win. This isn't a natural culture shift by one group of people, but purely nefarious political propaganda.
During Lucas's time this toxic fandom corporate division tactic wasn't fully in use because it requires the population to all have a phone, internet, and visit the same main websites. The *only* way to fix this issue is to a) only ever blame the corporations for this. b) simply not watch corporate films.... but now you can't watch star wars or MCU or most of the movies ever made these days.
so instead the answer is to watch all these things but then make 53985,19593 videos complaining about then.
Which is exactly what Disney wants us to do. =)
Self: "I wish these movies had never been made."
"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
Great pull
Kennedy deserves ALOT of Critism she is in charge of :Lucas Film she promoted the direction.
Was, not is. But yes, you are correct.
She still is lol what are you talking about. And now we get to see what turd she lets out with another Indians Jones film
I'm sure she gets some credit, but people talk about her like she's this completely incompetent executive. You should check her credits sometime. She produced so MANY of the movies we all love over the last few decades. She's clearly smart and competent, but just didn't handle Star Wars well. I'd also be interested to know how much Disney influenced decisions she made.
Does she get equal credit for The Mandalorian? My guess is that more will criticize her if they don’t like it, but if they do like it, will give credit only to the director, and not her.
@@farewell217
KK: Hey George, can I be in the credits of this movie
GL: sure, you did do all those non production related things
Bam she's on the credits.
Being on the credits means little to nothing. You either are high enough to get a mention or not. Kennedy just so happens was high enough to get a mention. There's a known story that she was laughed out of the storyboard room for Indian Jones 3 because her ideas were so stupid and made no sense.
It’s just unbelievable how Disney/Lucasfilm, purely from a business stand point, didn’t hire a group of writers to type out three polished scripts before they even thought about entering into pre-production on the first film. Could have saved them tens of millions of dollars in reshoots and made them billions of dollars more in merchandise sales bought by happy fans. It’s all just so damn common sensical.
Pixar has this thing called a brain trust, what they do is they get a bunch of animators, writers, story artist, etc into one room, whether an office room or go on a retreat for a couple days in another city or state away from their studio, and discuss what they should and shouldn't do for their upcoming movies. They revise a movie's idea in this session, sometimes way before a script or storyboard is made. They take time to understand one persons perspective and work to find a middle ground on one another's choices. It's one of the reasons why a lot of their movie releases lack a high critical failure ratio when it comes to the story(not all of them succeed, but most do) it's ironic that a big make and break franchise like Star Wars didn't do something like this while a relatively young studio took risks and succeeded 5 out of 7 times in those same years of 2014-2019
Big reason a studio like Pixar succeeds is the fear of failure. They didn’t have the reputation Star Wars did, so banking on name power alone wouldn’t have done it. Likewise with rushing their creators or undermining their own projects.
They also rarely do trilogies, cars at this point being the only one. So it’s much simpler to try to make one standalone rather than figure out the story for 3 connected films, a task I feel Lucasfilm felt overwhelmed by with Disney breathing down their neck to go faster
Cars and Toy Story.
@@NoobLord9001 How the hell did I forget about Toy story LOL
yes that sounds good. Nut out the basic blury "image" of the film. You don't even need to say what character does what but you at least have a kind of template for how it will flow and what sort of emotional event happens when. What is the theme?, what kind of style? (espionage, war, film-noir, chase etc), the tone?, the message? and most of all - who is it for?
Heck I don't think it would even have taken very long to get a great outline for a new Star Wars trilogy by group of of real writers and fans. They have the resources of Disney to get the best writers and idea people on it. I can't imagine not doing this...it also would have been really fun, like playing an RPG just bouncing awesome ideas out there. 🤔
If there's one good thing I can say about the Sequel Trilogy is that people appreciate the prequels more now.
So, basically, if Disney had waited, say, 18 months?
Then they would’ve ultimately made a LOT more money. And saved themselves yeeeaaars of Damage Control. And wouldn’t be stuck with a trilogy that hardly anybody wants to rewatch (…*ever*).
LOL?
I've watched the OT and Prequels over and over again the last 3 years - haven't put the sequels on once. They torpedo so much from the previous 6 movies (hell, they torpedo their own trilogy). Not seen a franchise mess up this bad except for Game of Thrones.
But what was the logic of Disney's top level management instead? Ignore the request for more time from the original writer, Michael Arndt, replace him with Lawrence Kasdan and J.J. Abrams, who also wanted more time, ignore them too and shove out the POS known as Episode 7 "on time!" And the rest is history that I'm not going to re-experience!
Yeah but capitalism means shareholders want big dividends NOW and they hold so much control, even Disney sometimes places their desires over what's best for the product. As it happens I still enjoy the ST more than the PT (obv OT will always be the best in my view) but I totally agree there are problems and they would have been better if more time had been taken to write them as one story.
Greed makes people do stupid things.
Have you ever worked anywhere.
This is every company I have worked at lol
"I learned you need a plan." No shit, Sherlock.
How do you get this far in your career and not realize that. Absolute disgrace.
JJ Abrams: Do I look like someone with a plan?
One individual I heard said it best. The handling of the sequel trilogy was artistic malpractice.
The Force awakens Isn't sitting in that box office takings Number 1 slot because it's a phenomenal film...it certainly isn't.
It's only sitting in that top position because 35 years of SW fans wanted to find out what happened to Luke, Han and Leia.
So many millions of people worldwide went to find out what happened to them and most of them only showed up once.
you could have laid a turd and put the SW logo on it, told everyone this is the continuing saga of Luke, Han and Leia
and the cinemas everywhere opening weekend would still have been packed.
It sucks how the Disney paid media still flogs this stat like some amazing achievement.
I can't think of a greater cinema example where the anticipation and excitement
was such a monumental guarantee of thru the roof ticket sales opening week.
The final figure is not a true gauge of that movies actual merits or failings.
Or maybe it turned out to be an exciting, fun film that loads of people liked.
@@agathisrobustahaha it's a good film yes...but no.1 all time box office ? on it's merits alone ?
It isn't even in the top 250 highest rated movies on IMDB but yet so many people according to you liked it, it's in the top slot ?
If it was because it was great then it would be in the top 250 wouldn't it.
But i guess maybe Russian bots were to blame.
@@80sOGRE Doesn't change the fact that a lot of people went to see TFA and reviews were favourable. Apparently box office numbers like that are also buoyed by repeat viewings, indicating a good time despite any shortcomings. CinemaScore of A seems to confirm general enjoyment.
@@agathisrobusta But obviously not favorable enough to lift TFA into the top 250 ?
@@80sOGRE Eh, that doesn't matter. I doubt you're wrong about the excitement and anticipation lifting the box office, but I think the film had legs because it was genuinely enjoyable for a huge segment of the audience. I doubt it would have done as well if early reviews were poor. I think I saw it five or six times. Definitely derivative, but enough new stuff to keep interest and honestly the newer characters really drove the film.
I always find the BTS scenarios to be more interesting than the movies themselves the more I think about it.
Same. I’m more interested in what happens BTS than in the trilogy itself
The prequels BTS and the sequels BTS are both extremely fascinating to me. I don’t really love any Star Wars movie past Empire, but I do really enjoy finding out why these movies end up the way they do.
I hate K-pop.
@@mrpancakeguy lmao 🤣
@@TheFirstOkiro what's your opinion on the EU
It angers me Disney went this direction, it almost seems if people in charge never even seen an episode of the Clone Wars...that's fucking story telling
Lol, TCW is 95% unwatchable childish mush
@@arthurballs9632 if you claim the mandalorian was better than the other stuff produced, it's bc of Clone Wars and Rebels are the reasons why mandalorian exist
@@RathOne123 You made that up, obviously.
It's because of TLJ the Mandalorian exists. It's was so bad that it made members of Team Favreau angry, and made them realise they could do something to make SW right.
@@arthurballs9632 the clone wars movie is trash, but the series has a lot of good elements - especially in later seasons
They didn't put Luke, Han, and Leia in a scene together. Can you believe that.
Imagine being the one knowing you could have made that happen
Mark really REALLY wanted to have a scene and work with Harrison again...and we ALL wanted that so badly too! I can't believe it didn't happen.
@@IVIargerineEclipse I can't believe they didn't have a scene of luke mourning hans death
Literally take the plot of Jedi Knight: Jedi academy, swap out a few characters, embellish a few backstories and you got yourself an episode 7 plot in a few hours.
Honestly bro there’s so much good EU content they could have looked to and tweaked slightly for the big screen. How they messed it up so bad is actually impressive.
Don't forget Kylo and Rey are basically Revan and Bastila
@@filth6996 EU FTW
@@filth6996 Imagine if they would've taken the major plotline of the Thrawn trilogy, added a proper Sith villain and erased the cloning. That shit would have been cash to end all card transactions.
@@drdiabetes7469 just done poorly
Just imagine what the sequel trilogy would have been like had they:
A) had legitimate time to plan
B) had a consistent vision throughout (one writer or one group of writers working with a director)
C) had a studio that was willing to do what was best for the story and fans, ie Kevin Feige and Marvel
I believe there’s a universe out there that got a great version of the sequels. There’s a good story in there, it’s almost like they cared about money more than telling a good story. Hmmm…
The irony is that if they had put out a quality product, the movies likely would have been MUCH more successful/profitable.
Movies exist to make money
Yes, movies do exist to make money, but the story has to come first, which if done with excellence, the money will follow.
I admit, going into this video, I had my own conclusions on who deserved what amount of blame and this video helps illustrate that there was only ever one villain: Disney themselves. Kathlene Kennedy was problematic and the directors share some blame, but only because of Disney's unreasonable demands.
The one thing I wanted more than anything else. Was something new from the franchise with the Sequel Trilogy. Even if the Sequel Trilogy was (even though this exactly what it needed more than anything else) a consistent narrative from beginning to end. If it just gave me a diet version of the Original Trilogy. Then would I bother watching the Sequel Trilogy? When I could just rewatch the OG Trilogy.
When the light saber went to Rey and not to Luke we didn’t realize it but it was over.
That would have been a good time for Luke to have shown up (though it would have been best for Abrams to have been allowed to do what he wanted to and have Luke in the whole film).
How was JJ Abrams been in the industry this long and not know the importance of a plan??
The importance of a plan and of an original script with characters that are not incoherent. It was not difficult to use the script that Lucas had planned.
How can these people call themselves industry professionals. They were worse than amateurs.
It’s called popularity. J.J. Abrams’ movies are sold on his name alone.
@@georgecampbell9638, yes, jar jar abrams is particularly known for being the franchise killer. The most lazy and dishonest, incompetent impostor of hollywood.
Because he is a hack. His entire philosophy of "mistery box" was doomed from the start
JJ: “It was a collaboration.”
This video: “Rian ditched everything.”
Exactly! How is RJ not to blame? Yes Film makers rush things. However it was RJ who decided to toss continuity and subvert expectations.
JJ wouldn't want to burn bridges in his career. I don't think anyone would want to in Hollywood if they can avoid it. He would probably say something different behind closed doors though.
Even TFA’s editor said that TLJ was a conscious undoing of TFA. JJ said TLJ was written before he met Rian. How is that a collaboration?
Honestly the sequel Trilogy is so forgettable I hardly remember the plots anymore.
When will you continue your version of the sequels?I watched the episode 7 rewrite,and I am really impressed how creative you are when it comes to creating Star Wars stories.
Actually I was re-watching the sequel trilogy and talking to some friends, I’m going to rewrite My rewrite but it’s going to be a little longer. I should have it done by the end of the month
@@TheFirstOkiro AWESOME! I look forward to reading or watching it. I've seen a few other rewrites and they're all much better than what we got. Some have rewrote the entire saga but left the OT as is for the theatrical version but did address the various updated versions.
@@TheFirstOkiro I've been hearing names like Roundhead Johnson ruin Johnson
I guess the issue with the sequel trilogy is the lack of timing and no good story telling say what will about Lucas at least he knows where it going and really Star Wars didn’t need a sequel the return of the Jedi felt like the happy ending of Star Wars if it was Lucasfilm that just doing the movies without a corporation controlling them things could have been different.
Disney fell into the same trap that Irwin Allen and Garry Marshall did: Tell a story for the sake of telling a story. That's why Star Wars, Lost in Space and Happy Days really tanked.
Disney doesn't care. They think they can crank out tired, cookie-cutter things like "Jar-Jar Binks: A Star Wars Story," and it'll make money.
One consistent vision. The idea of kylo being vulnerable in TFA and slowly becoming more hardened and pulled deeper into the Darkseid sounds like it would be such a good arch and Luke just not being the one we saw in TLJ would be amazing as well lol
I lay most blame on Ruin Johnson. TFA, although just a reboot of A New Hope, at least set up interesting concepts. But RJ wrote and directed TLJ, which did immeasurable damage to SW
TLJ destroyed the Sequel Trilogy, it damaged SW so badly and it still hasn't recovered. Rian openly ADMITS he WANTED to piss off HALF the fandom. How is this a practical way to make a Star Wars film?
It would have been fine if Rian Johnson directed all three movies.
@@blakeharris58 Nah cause Rian sucks and doesn't understand the fundamentals of Star Wars. ie "Flying Leia" and "Pyromaniac Yoda" and "Grumpy Cat Luke". Everything Rian did was pathetic. Even the Praetorian Guards looked ridiculously stupid. And don't get me started on Canto Bight as I don't want to ROFL at the stupidity all night.
@@KentKaliber well here’s the thing, you say that now with perfect 20/20 hindsight. The biggest problem with TLJ was the lack of congruence. Had Johnson (or literally anyone) directed all three episodes, at the very least they would have flowed together.
@@blakeharris58 I do agree ---- if Rian Johnson had made all 3, the garbage would have have perfect flow. I still don't want to watch garbage.
Big miss on one major factor, it was Harrison Fords fault that solo died. Back in 1979 he requested to die in Empire. Lucas said no. Then he requested again in Jedi along with the support of the writers, again Lucas said no. Fast forward to JJ meeting Ford where JJ said Ford required something if he was to sign on. (This is through a various collection interviews and documenters) So while Disney takes a lot of the blame, Ford is the real reason why we didn't get to see all 3 of the main cast together again. This stupid little personal vendetta to kill of Solo is such a stain on the Star Wars saga, yes hes Solo, but that dose not give him the devine right to trash one of the most loved characters in Cinema along with letting down all the fans.
Which is hilarious given how Ford still makes money from Star Wars.
They could have had the characters on-screen together before Han Solo gets killed.
I really appreciate the time spent on editing, writing, etc.. with your videos. The humor is extra sweet too.
I've seen A LOT of video essays on Star Wars... and the way in which the narrative matches what we see on screen is definitely some of the best I've ever seen.
Nicely done sir. 🙏
Watching this you've convinced me that the problem wasn't any director, it was Disney or whoever was put in charge of the project not committing to a story or director. It's clear they wanted to move anyway from the legacy of star wars and create its own new universe but now we have a mess and I don't know how they are going to fix it.
In the end the "mystery box" was full of nothing
There never was a mystery box. Just conflicting visions and being unable to agree on a story.
The Mystery Box is always empty-that's why it's a trick. That's why they chose Abrams for the story; lots of wide open speculation to the point that speculation was what the fandom did over actually reviewing the past film. The Force Awakens was always defended with "they'll explain it with the sequels", which is never a good idea. The first story of a trilogy or franchise should always be self-contained and stand on its own two feet.
@@Tareltonlives most likely untrue. Abrams had, varified by several actors, ideas and answers that Lucasfilm did not want. The myth around the mystery box largely results from Lost. But there too was something inside the mystery box... only that after several seasons of TV it didn't fit to the show anymore and left people disappointed. The open speculation was caused by Lucasfilm being unable to commit to anything storywise. They did not do this on purpose but out of incompetence and disagreement.
@@alienobserver21 The thing is that since he didn't foreshadow those ideas and answers properly, instead focusing on the mystery, nothing was properly foreshadowed.
Do you really think Abrams is a man with a plan? Lost didn't even have a payoff. He doesn't follow through with storytelling. I suspect that's the express reason he was hired in the first place. Stop pretending he's just a victim of the system; he is part of it, and if he had any idea what he was doing, the The Force Awakens would not have been a mess.
@@Tareltonlives, "The farce awakens" is a shame and a big scam.
It is still staggering to me how Disney killed the goose that was laying the golden eggs. There was a way to make everybody happy and their impatience and greed burned it all. so bummed ☹️
i just discovered your channel and it is impeccable, new favorite star wars commentary, new favorite youtuber
Loved this video. You make the most balanced, measured, and calm criticism of the sequels I've heard. Thanks man. Keep up the good fight f
I still find it ridiculous that Disney insisted on rushing JJ Abrams when he was writing both the beginning and ending of the entire trilogy, while giving far more time and creative control to Rian Johnson who just had to write a middle chapter without messing up everything. Imagine the Sequel trilogy we could have had, if Disney had just kept their greed in check for just one more year
Tbh imagine if they just took their time with all of their films. Its not like they were desperate for the money. Maybe it’s a shareholders thing I’m too poor to understand lol
Sorry, but the "it was too rushed!!" excuse doesn't work. One film per year is not too much to ask from an experienced studio like Lucasfilm. The only reason anyone was "rushed" was bad management, and that's not on Disney - it's on Kathleen Kennedy.
Jar Jar Abrams is a hack.
Yep but this just shows how out of touch these "Corporations" truly are, Bob Iger, Alan Horn etc these are people that simply don't own a shred of merchandise from any of these franchises we love. And most of them don't even understand them, they simply see "IPs" thats it. They are people grown up in a completely business background and thats all they see these things, completely through the eyes of business ventures. They lougne in their mansions or take vaccions on thier big Yatchts somewhere out on some private, exclusive island, sipping the finest wine, or playing golf. They don't follow these franchises whatsoever.
The only merch they have is whats contained in their office which is used to prop up thier image and for good PR. Iger and Kennedy's intentions were always from a "business perspective", but what was missing was not having a "True Creative", someone who knows the franchise and loves it, like a Jon Favreau or Kevin Feige, to step in here and there, to respectively kind of stand up to these cold, calculated Execs and Disney Bosses, and persuade them that a certain idea is the right thing for the franchise as a whole; like e.g. sticking to Lucas' treatments.
But because there was no one around to say those things and Kennedy herself just didn't care otherwise she would have simply done her job and protect Lucas' Saga and his Characters against Disney's reckless greed, thats what he trusted her to do, why he asked her to run Lucasfilm.
So instead you're left with a load of greedy Execs who don't know nothing about the IP they've just bought, and can only see a "investment" ofwhich they're desperate to make profit back from ASAP, and that's why Episode 7 was rushed into production, and Iger/Horn didn't give Abrams or whoever else enough time to properly plan everything out first. They were soo deluded that they actually thought, as long as we make this first movie very "familiar" (basically rehash what came before), we'll be playing it safe and that will draw in all the fans and we'll be onto a good start. I believe the Disney bosses seriously thought that.
Then when Ep 8 came along, Kennedy was allowed to give alot of time to Rian Johnson's story and ideas, and the "Story Group" who worked with him on that, they were just all complete sell outs, he himself was only bothered about deconstructing the mythos. And Kennedy's plan overall for this trilogy was to first, entice all the fans/audience back with "nostalgia", then she thought she would "challenge" the fans/audience with the middle chapter; then "conclude" and wrap everything up in a nice little bow with the end chapter.
And the whole thing blew up in their face because NONE OF THAT went the way Kennedy expected.
If we had someone like Jon Favreau or Kevin Feige guiding this Sequel Trilogy it would have been perfectly Consistent and soo damn Amazing.
Jar jar abrams fucked up from the beginning. Making a bad copy and paste of "A New Hope" is not a favor, it's a fucking scam, an unforgivable laziness. And in addition the few new things and characters have no interest and are very badly written. abrams could have had 1, 2 or 5 years to work, he could have had the whole trilogy it would not have changed anything. It was doomed to fail since he was involved. He screwed up on Star Wars like he screwed up on Star Trek. He's a fraud, an incompetent, like kurtzman on Star Trek.
For the past couple of months, I’ve been trying to piece together JJ Abrams’s original plans for Snoke and the Knights of Ren. After giving it some thought, I’ve come to believe that they were originally conceived much differently.
When you go back and look at the tie-in material that was leading up to The Force Awakens, fans were presented with some very interesting information…
1. Numerous dark side cults such as the Acolytes of the Beyond were running amok after the deaths of Darth Vader and Palpatine (Aftermath).
2. Yupe Tashu, a Sith cultist and dark side historian, was introduced in the Aftermath books (Aftermath).
3. Snoke watched the rise and fall of the Galactic Empire (TFA Novelization).
4. Snoke might have had other students prior to Kylo Ren (TFA Novelization).
Then when you look back at the tie-in material for The Last Jedi, you’ll find information like this…
1. Snoke wore a ring with a piece of black obsidian from Darth Vader’s castle on Mustafar (TLJ Visual Dictionary).
2. Snoke wore a gold robe and fancy shoes (TLJ Visual Dictionary).
And finally, when you look back at The Force Awakens, you’ll notice some peculiar things about Snoke…
1. Snoke doesn’t have glowing yellow eyes like Sith usually have.
2. Snoke doesn’t wear a black robe like Palpatine. Instead, he wears a lighter, ornately designed robe without a hood, much like what a scholar or priest would wear.
So with all this evidence we’ve got, what can we piece together? Well, if you ask me, all of this evidence seems to point towards Snoke originally being conceived as a force sensitive dark side scholar who was very close to Palpatine and Darth Vader.
As for how he got to know them, well, this is where I get highly speculative…
Snoke served as one of Palpatine’s personal advisors since the Clone Wars. Being close to the Sith, he watched the Galactic Empire rise, and soon became a member of the Imperial Ruling Council. After Palpatine and Vader died on the second Death Star during Return of the Jedi, Snoke took it upon himself to study the ways of the dark side and form his own Sith worshipping cult (either from scratch or by fracturing away from the Acolytes of the Beyond) so he could one day rule the galaxy. Basically, Snoke always had a connection to the Force, and was a Palpatine wannabe. But he didn’t want any one else to know about it fear of being killed by Palpatine or Vader.
After the fall of the Empire, Snoke used his incredible wealth and military expertise to rise through the ranks of the newly established First Order, eventually gaining power as the Supreme Leader.
I also believe that his “other students” were the Knights of Ren, who were originally members of the Acolytes of the Beyond before they were taken in by Snoke. Once they became his students, they were trained in combat and started collecting and wearing pieces of ancient Sith armor and forging their own weapons.
Then, wanting to find another powerful warrior, Snoke decided to go after Ben Solo, the heir to Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader. After years of manipulating the young man to the dark side, Ben Solo wiped out Luke Skywalker’s Jedi Academy with the help of Snoke and the Knights of Ren. Then much like in the Rise of Kylo Ren comics, Luke Skywalker and Snoke engaged in a duel that ended with Snoke getting disfigured (aka getting that scar on his head).
Now, much like in the sequel trilogy we got, Snoke was always meant to be a red herring, even in JJ Abrams’s original vision. I believe that if Abrams’s outlines for Episodes 8 and 9 were followed, we would’ve learned that Snoke was residing in a remote part of the galaxy with the Knights of Ren acting as his bodyguards. During Episode 8, Kylo Ren would’ve ended up betraying Snoke by killing him, and Palpatine would turn out to be the real villain of the sequel trilogy, purposely hiding in the shadows and letting Snoke run amok before he put his real plan into action (whatever JJ had in mind in his Episode 9 outline, though it possibly involved Exegol).
We would also learn that the reason Luke Skywalker remained on Ahch To for such a long time was because he received a vision from the Force that told him Palpatine would one day return while staying on the planet. So while he initially fled to the first Jedi temple out of shame for failing to save his students, he ended up staying there to try and find a way to stop Palpatine if he ever came back. Luke want going to cut himself off from the Force like how he did in the sequel trilogy we got. Rather, he would retain his faith in the Jedi and look for a way to redeem himself after failing to save Ben and his students.
TLDR: I don’t think Snoke was originally planned to be a failed Palpatine clone like we saw in The Rise of Skywalker. Based on evidence from The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, and some tie-in books for both movies, I believe JJ Abrams originally conceived Snoke as a powerful force sensitive member of the Imperial Ruling Council who became the Supreme Leader of the First Order in the years following the deaths of Palpatine and Vader. The Knights of Ren were originally supposed to be former members of the Acolytes of the Beyond who fell under Snoke’s teachings and became his former students.
You’re absolutely right. He wasn’t planned to be a failed clone. The biggest indicator for that is because Ian didn’t even enter the equation until 2018 and even beforehand he was only going to be a hologram at first. I actually have a video planned to talk about what JJ might have done and what the answers to the questions he brought up could have been because many of the things you have listed, are a lot of the conclusions that I myself have come to.
@The First Okiro: Awesome! I can’t wait to see them!
Great work on this video, subscribed 👌
The production of this video is my favorite of what you've done so far
And the point of lack of time is the biggest problem I have with the current slate of star wars
JJ Abrams speaks like he had this amazing revelation he needs to share with the world, "You should probably plan ahead when telling a story."
Simple, there was no plan. During the planning of Episode 7, what they needed to do was set the main story plots from episode 7 to episode 9. Then tell each director, they need to get from point A to point B. Between there, they can take certain creative liberties, but they need to stay within that main agreed upon story line. That's pretty much what Marvel does and why they are so successful. Directors are able to be creative and add their own ideas but they just need to stay within certain parameters.
TH-cam’s recommendations dropped this video on my feed, I’m so glad I clicked on it to watch! Now I think I’ll watch your Finn videos. He was my absolute favorite concept character, and I am very interested in your take on what happened.
Also, you have a lovely voice, very good for listening to while I worked on my chores.
Fantastic video. With the lack of any real ‘making of’ material ever being released (only Disneyfied versions), this content is much needed.
Well presented and put together with the facts that have been made available.
Wonderful stuff, thank you for your time and effort and keep up the great work ☺️
That is a most eloquent and thoughtful description of a complete dumpster fire.
excellent perspective and sources 👏
Thoughtful and well-delivered commentary. Thanks!
The OT and PT had their movies made 3 years apart from each other. That would’ve done a lot of good for the ST.
TFA was my favorite. There are a ton of sequences that parallel with ANH but the new characters had fresh personalities, backgrounds, motivations and goals. The story itself was also new and had a lot of interesting things that left us wondering what would happen next for the new generation…
TLJ ultimately took every character and made them the exact opposite of who they were from TFA in terms of personality and development. This movie is my least favorite specifically because of how EVERY character old and new were both ruined and disrespected with the story going nowhere. What makes things worse was how there was no time gap between this and TFA. The best way I can describe that is there was no breathing room for any off screen development like every other trilogy.
TROS felt very predictable and rushed with a ton of plot holes. I would say it was ok if you turned your mind off. All characters were still damaged from TLJ with many still having awkward transitions between movies. One thing I’ll give this movie props for is Solo.
What all these movies had in common was cool ship designs. Say what you want but those new X-Wings and TIE Fighters look sharp!
This “trilogy” had a fantastic start especially with the hype. However damage control seems to be nonexistent. The damage done is entirely irreparable. Who knows, maybe if they had the same director and each had three years of development things could’ve been different in a better way.
Ah well. If all else fails go with your personal headcanon!
They have people like Dave Filoni and Jon Favreau working for them already. Why is it so hard for them to let those guys be in charge? Imagine what kind of movies we would have gotten.
100% agree 👍🏼
@@lightsight7754 actually Dave feloni worked on the force awakens
@@ryanbarth6691 dave was working with incompetence on the force awakens he wasn’t in charge if he was in charge it would be the star wars we all know and love
Thank you for making this video.
I honestly wouldn’t mind if the next trilogy started with Rey taking off the x-wing helmet from the force awakens and reveals it was all a very long dream. Start from scratch and do it right 😂 that’s how much I think they fucked that latest trilogy up
The sequel trilogy isn't canon.
Time travel exists in Star Wars now. So they could erase it if they want.
@@sithsquid1 Has that been officially stated now?
I actually hope this will make JJ Abrams improve as a filmmaker; so far I'd say he's been coasting on nostalgia, but never actually developing actual talent. His style is hard on the eyes. His scripts are shallow and thoughtless. He wants to be Spielberg but he doesn't get why Spielberg works. Failure is the greatest teacher (to quote the awful Yoda puppet in that awful scene) but I hope he learned something about planning and not relying on the mystery box. The mystery box is a mistake, and it backfired on him
Great artists learn from their mistakes, and then there's JJ Abrams.
@@Darrylizer1 LOL Good point.
Great films and books always have mysteries. I don’t blame JJ at all. There are plenty of others to blame.
@@andreadover No, they really don't. you know what books and films have mysteries? MYSTERY BOOKS AND FILMS
I don't blame anymore more than Abrams. He wrote the Force Awakens.
You know when George said the words “it’s about father-son relationships…family….” Kathleen Kennedy knew she had to sever all ties with him.
Crazy feminism is better than family 👪
Another banger. Awesome video dude!
Thanks beautiful! We still need to work on another video together!
Thank you. You put it perfectly..... the lack of planning and consistency killed this trilogy. The Force Awakens was amazing. Then TLJ came in and wiped EVERYTHING off the table.... destroyed Rey's character, making her into an overpowered, selfish, whiny brat. LITERALLY OBLITERATED Luke's character. Wasted an entire hour and half in a casino that had 0 impact on the story as a whole.
Abrams had nothing to work with when TROS came out... Rian left him nothing. I swear he did it intentionally. Like, I do not understand how someone can come in and mess something up that bad by chance. It HAD to be intentional.
They needed time, they needed direction from people who KNOW star wars, and they needed consistent directors from start to finish. Or at least directors who were willing to work with one another.
When J.J.Abrams does something original (Lost, Cloverfield) it's innovative & fun & interesting, when he takes over a franchise (Star Trek, Star Wars) it's an abominable pile of crap. The recent news that the next planned trilogy probably won't happen is the best entertainment news I've heard in a decade.
As Star Wars fans we should be ecstatic to hear of a new Star Wars trilogy, but now that kinda news just fills most of us with dread. 😕
To be fair, the 3rd Mission Impossible 3 film is fairly decent. It's just that compared to more recent Mi films it just feels so forgettable. Like no matter terrible the 2nd one is, at least people remember it for that reason
I hate JJ Abrams for what hes done to Sar Trek & Star Wars and sadly it seems hes going to ruin Superman next.
@@RaikenXion hey star wars can still be your favorite movie
@@ryanbarth6691 ?? Where did that come from? Well actually, my favorite Star Wars Movies are Rogue One, Empire and ROTS.
I HATE the Sequels!! 😠
This all lands at the feet of Bob Iger. It all started with his hand in things. He insisted on cashing in ASAP, it was his call to get the BIG DIRECTOR in J.J. Abrams, and only KK bringing Kasdan in made The Force Awakens work as decently as it did.
Gotta love how George gave them a sequel trilogy script and they threw it out the window while saying "we never had source material" as they discontinued star wars legends which has thousands of stories to draw inspiration from.
Wonderful video. May the Force be with YOU.
I really fell into a false love with the sequels…I loved the prequels…not necessarily the over saturation of CGI but the story was Lucas’ to tell so I was there for it, and loved all of the especially ROTS. JJ Abrams is notorious for knowing how to start things but not knowing how to finish them, he has no “endgame”, although Disney’s influence is undeniable they truly ruined the franchise that Filoni and Favirou are not trying to rebuild from the ashes.
"Lets make a trilogy of a beloved fictional universe known for its trilogy's. But lets not start with a basic plan for the overall story." What followed was a predictable mess. I watched the first movie and did not bother with the other two because the writhing and world building was so obviously trash. I always feel so bad for the actors. This was supposed to be their star wars moment of being made into super star lasting for decades. Instead they became the symbols of trash writing.
I imagine Hayden Christiansen and Natalie Portman felt the same way.
@@nicolasleroux5302 they even received vicious whiplash
@@ryanbarth6691 Not just them. The kid who played young Anakin was bullied relentlessly and grew up to be a hardened felon. The man who played Jar Jar received death threats via mail and considered committing suicide. And regarding the sequels, the women who played Rey and Rose were harassed endlessly.
Star Wars fans are vicious, man.
@@nicolasleroux5302 you got that right I actually met people who expressed their own opinion of the sequels in a professional manner and moved on with their lives
very good video! nice work man :)
Thank you!
Excellent work 👌
Great video: But what you are not talking a little bit about is the passing of Carrie Fisher. I think that this fact, which obviously no one could have planned for, as sad as it is alone that she died that young must have had a big impact on writing of the films as well since she was just not available for filming scenes anymore. All in all a great video and yea...it is just so sad what Disney did with this trilogy.
I still say to this very day that what kept the Original Trilogy and even the Prequel Trilogy together was the Luke/Vader relationship. The Prequel Trilogy basically centered around Anakin's rise to power and fall from grace and the Original Trilogy was about Luke redeeming his father. With that resolved, the Sequel Trilogy was doomed to go out of control.
This is a very good point and gets rarely mentioned. Disney tried to shoehorn 7,8,9 into the 1-6 Vader, Palpatine, Luke arc. They should have just made a completely different story with a completely different threat and you could have still incorporated Luke, Leia and Han. Instead they essentially told the same story and making Han, Luke and Leia a big reason that everything they accomplished in 4,5,6 is undone. The fact that nobody at Disney saw that Return of the Jedi closed the chapter on that story arc tells us all we need why 7,8,9 failed in a narrative sense.
Disney could have made a good sequel trilogy without the Luke/Vader relationship, but they chose not to
@tj smith: This.
I believe this was one of the biggest challenges when it came to continuing the Skywalker Saga. Anakin, Luke, and Palpatine were the three major players in the first six movies, and once their relationships with one another are solved by the end of Return of the Jedi, what story is left to tell with the Skywalkers in this saga?
Like, if you were to make a third trilogy where Palpatine returns after being killed by Anakin, no matter how hard you try and justify it, I believe it’s still going to feel tacked on and unnecessary since Return of the Jedi made it pretty clear that he died after being tossed down the reactor shaft. Being the driving factor behind manipulating and abolishing the Old Republic, and wiping out the Jedi Order, it makes sense for the Skywalker Saga to end with him being defeated by the person whom he hurt and manipulated the most; Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader. If the next trilogy in the saga were to introduce a new big bad unrelated to Anakin, even if they were some ancient dark side entity like what a lot of fans believed Snoke was supposed to be prior to TROS, it would feel inconsistent with the previous six films and make the third trilogy feel like fan fiction.
As for Anakin Skywalker, what would really be left in store for him following his redemption? Sure, he could always manifest as a force ghost and give Luke and Leia some guidance on how to restore the Jedi Order and deepen their connections to the force, but even if you were to go that route, he wouldn’t really be an active player like how he was in the PT and OT when he was still alive.
So that leaves us with the two last remaining Skywalkers: Luke and Leia. I mean, I guess them rebuilding the New Republic and Jedi Order would make for a decent story for a third trilogy in the Skywalker Saga, but it’s not like their stories couldn’t be further explored in spin-off material (live action and animated TV shows) and even a whole new saga that primarily focuses on new characters.
@Chris Olivo: I agree. Lucasfilm could’ve just made a brand new saga centered around new characters with the OT characters playing supporting roles.
They could’ve called it something like “The Aftermath Saga” and have the story center around the New Republic and newly formed Jedi Order either dealing with the imperial remnants/First Order or some brand new threat from the Unknown Regions like the Grysk.
@@jackcapellini113 Exactly what I was saying. I don't blame Rian Johnson for ruining Star Wars ("Knives Out" is freaking awesome). I already knew years before it came out that "The Rise of Skywalker" was going to be a mess. I still haven't seen it.
See what had happen was Disney done bought Star Wars, got excited but didn't seem to realize that the most compelling story you could ever tell about the Skywalkers has been told.
It's a shame the actresses like Kelly Marie Tran and Daisy Ridley had to be bullied for their Star Wars characters. Daisy did a good job playing Rey, but Rey is simply not a Skywalker.
Great video. Thanks.
Great video essay and stance.
"There's nothing more important than knowing where you're going."
No kidding, JarJar Abrams. Thanks for the insight into your incompetence with the most valuable franchise of all time.
Did you not watch the video?
Wonderful Content! So sad how Disney’s greed ruined the sequel trilogy.
great job man
It's still utterly baffling that they had no plan. The movies reminded me of that game you play as kids where one person starts a story, just a few sentences. Then they pass it off to the person next to them and that person continues for a few sentences, then passes it along again, etc. It's sort of meant as an exercise in showing just how much a story can change depending on who is telling it, how completely different it becomes from what each person intended when they told their little portion. The craziest thing though is that Disney actually did it in real life with a billion dollar franchise.
Good video. Appreciate the neutral take on it. Imo Disney should’ve taken more time and of course decide what story they were telling. Star wars is an awesome franchise and it is unfortunate that they failed to end the skywalker saga in a way that the story deserved.
I think there’s enough videos trying to pick a negative or positive side of things that we can deal with some neutrality. I just want to present the info and let others make up their mind. Thanks for the compliment and the comment!
The whole trilogy was a huge missed opportunity. However I really appreciate what the Last Jedi had to say about the franchise as a stand-alone film.
Yeah, the last Jedi showed that the whole trilogy was garbage.
Disney actually managed to make me almost completely uninterested in Star Wars, which is nuts because I was ordering the paper role playing game in the 90s and was always obsessed.
hey great work man!
question, what editing software do you use?
and did you find all of the clips yourself and combined them?
The tragic thing is that the Han Solo movie is actually pretty good. But because fans hated the Last Jedi, it never got the light of day and developed further with sequels. I want more of that style of Star Wars movie. One thing for sure. All the New Star Wars movies look fantastic visually. So there was great potential there.
2:37 I wanted to cry listening to this. poor George. I get why he sold. Running a huge company at his age plus the endless harassment from assholes who didn't enjoy the prequals probably would have made me make it disneys problem as well.
Worse part is those assholes are still around in the media trashing him endlessly
@@TheFirstOkiro I vowed to never watch "The People vs George Lucas" because of it. wikapeda says it's not about attacking gearge but I don't know.
UPDATE: Mark Hamill said it was about trashing George so I'll take his word for it.
@@unseenphantomamvsytp2186 mark said those people actually tried to TRICK HIM into bashing George and he walked out of the interview. Look up “mark hammil jake lyodd “ and you’ll see him talk about it there
Good Video Man!
Really nice analysis 👍
they made it about FEMALE EMPOWERMENT
instead of a narative about A RICH LORE DEEP UNIVERSE with spaceships and magic
Yes, yes they did
It could have been both, too. They just messed up SOOO badly it ended up being neither. Sad times.
Rey the bestest evarrr. A ridiculous Mary Sue. What a farce.
I'm just wondering who made the better Mary Sue, the star wars sequels or star trek discovery...
@@shazattack3711 i never watched STD, so to me it doesn't exist ;)
I kinda saw the writing on the wall when Disney acquired the IP overall and set about retconning the entire Star Wars EU to fit the narrative of their own productions. I had hoped that maybe, just maybe there was at least one Disney executive with enough braincells to realize that handling the franchise properly would be a boon, but its Disney. They do things their way or not at all, and even their own back catalogue suffers for it.
The Force Awakens really was a hinge point for them, it was just ambitious enough despite hitting all the nostalgic plot points to have ANY identity for itself whatsoever. I can only imagine how much potential a properly worked out story arc could have had, if Disney just considered quality over efficiency.
To be fair the EU was a MONSTER by the time Disney took over, with stuff ranging from awesome like the original Grand Admiral's Trilogy to complete wtfs like Courtship of Princess Leia (one of the worse books ever written in human history). There were major wtfs that split the fandom even then like Chewbacca's death at the start of the Vong invasion to how Jacen fell to darkness and started the SECOND Galactic Civil War (plus his murder of Boba's [REDACTED] and Luke's [REDACTED]0 caused all manner of rage with the fandom. And let's not forget Palpatine's cloned "return" was part of the EU, and was cool the FIRST time it happened in The Dark Empire comics but became such a running joke even Dark Horse's editorial got sick of it and was like "off the #$#@ already" in Empire's End.
had the movies taken place in the EU, it would have been roughly about the time of Legacy of the Force, which was built on TONS of events and history it would take 20+ movies to explain since most "fans" are casuals, not interested in all the books, comics, games and stuff that went into building the EU....
I can't fault them for scrapping the EU. It was a mess and there were a lot of just plain dumb concepts in it.
@@mechanomics2649 Nah i fault them for scrapping because they had the option to pick and choose what worked within it and resonated and what was crap but they flushed it all down the toilet because they didn't want to have to pay royalties so many creators.
"how did we get here"
Kennedy, Cathleen Kennedy is how.
They couldve just hired 3 super fans with 0 experience and not even paid them and we would've ended up with a better trilogy
Wow. I found your video by accident. I was impressed with your summations and interpretations. I agree with your overall observations. I haven't said that to anyone in a long time. And, I personally have experienced the hate and mean spirited "fan" reaction to having an alternative opinion about a franchise. Great video. I'll be sharing this one. If that's okay. Thank you for such well thought out insites!
I have learned that wearing shoes is a good way to prevent dirty feet.
Palpatine was a virgin damnit! How dare Disney slander him.
“Are you going to F*** me?”
“I would certainly like to!”
“I know you would…”
Disney literally canonized this.
Thanks for your analysis.
This is a really well researched and analysed video ...you get my sub and like (:
It's 2021 and The Last Jedi is still the WORST Star Wars movie of all time. Like even WORSE than the Prequels, which I did not think was possible.
TLJ makes Phantom Menace look like Shakespeare
i still think rise of the skywalker is worse. even rotten tomates agrees with me.
@@motor4X4kombat Except Rise of Skywalker was NOT worse. It actually looked and felt like a Star Wars movie --- The Last Jedi did not. The Casino scene of TLJ is one of the most hideous things i have ever seen on a movie screen. And the Finn-Rose duo is so cringe I won't even go there right now LOL. The Critics on RT don't matter, the fans do.
@@KentKaliber what the fuck is a star wars film at this point? its the original trilogy? is the prequels? is the sequels? is kotor? is rogue one? is solo? is the xmast special? what? WHAT?! i hate rise of skywalker the most because just like space jam it fell less like a movie and more like a souless cash grab that offers the same bullshit to confort the cry baby fanboys, and gives nothing new to chew on for the new comers. So it fails both as a sequel and as a stand alone movie. at this point i don't want a star wars film, i want a GOOD film. same with star wars vision i don't want another fucking star wars proyect that respect a the lore, look, feel, and cheap nostalgic pandering from the live action disney remakes that infected modern star wars and most people are too stupid to be aware of that, i just want a good damm show from beggining to end,
I have spoken.
The Star Wars brought me; the use of memes and humor made me subscribe.
I don’t know how people make long videos without any humor LOL that would drive me crazy just from an editing perspective
@@TheFirstOkiro it’s an incredible flow between serious bts recap and humor and healthy skepticism. Great stuff 👍🏻
I feel so bad for the actors. They really care about it
Yeah, especially the actors who get flak for their character. And also, Finn. Criminally underused, great actor, great potential for the character, utterly squandered.
Good informative video
MCU: has shit planned out 15 years in advance
SW Sequels: changes rey’s heritage movie to movie
Meh MCU wasn’t that planned out, you can tell they made significant course corrections over the years, but definitely leaps and bounds better planned out than Star Wars
The story line of the sequels made no sense. Even TFA was a mess. For example, why is there even a first order controlling the galaxy? Besides the terrible social politics that should never have been injected into Star Wars, the story lines lack sense. The movies are flashy but lack substance or reason.
I know I commented in that last video but your message editing really is good, making a point but keeping the comedic element is a hard thing to pull off, but I do it like well, much more than the sequel lol
Honestly I think JJ genuinely wanted this to be something great, but after Disney rushed him, and the fact he had to somehow bring a good 9th film out of the burning trash pile that was the last jedi it meant it wasnt as good as it could've been. Thing is, the 7th film wasnt that bad, despite being a re-skin of the 4th film. It could've been better given more time.
Episode VII wasn't good either. It was successful because it was the next episode since 2005.