Celestion and Thomann DENIED this about the VINTAGE 30!!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ค. 2024
- The new Vintage 30s are awesome! Celestion and Thomann are saying there's "no difference." I put six different models to the test, with real, measurable results. Get a FREE impulse of the new one at spectredigital.com/smg-2022-v...
0:00 Accused of Misinformation
1:37 Nothing to see here!
3:21 The Free Impulse
4:06 Constructive Suggestions
6:08 six v30s measured by year
8:09 Six V30s in a mix
10:43 Full length mix shootout
12:43 a closer look at frequency response
16:33 Grab that FREE IMPULSE
About Spectre Sound Studios:
I'm Glenn Fricker, engineer here at Spectre Sound Studios. I love making records, and after doing it for sixteen years, I want to pass on what I've learned. On my channel you can find tutorials on how to record guitar, bass, real drums and vocals. There's reviews and demos of tube amps, amp sims, drums, mics, preamps, outboard gear, Electric Guitar, Bass Guitar, and plugin effects.
We've covered Moon on the Water, played Bias FX, given you the absolute best in Stupid Musician Texts, ranted & raved about bass guitar, and this channel is where The Eagle has Landed.
Everything you've wanted to learn about recording Hard Rock & Heavy Metal can be found right here on this channel!
I also respond to your comments & questions: The best make it into the SMG Viewer's Comments series of videos. Loads of fun, lots of laughs.
Thanks for checking out my channel & please subscribe!
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Get a FREE impulse of the new one at spectredigital.com/smg-2022-v30-ir-giveaway/
Glenn, how can you be sure that the difference in the 2022 Chinese V30 isn’t just due to small variations in the tolerances in manufacturing?
Wouldn’t it be more accurate to test multiple 2022 Chinese V30s to see if they are all sonically the same?
How much you want for rhat 2017 speaker. Industrial metal and black metal tone. Double mic it and make use of that weird harmonic it has lol.
Hi Glenn ,
I am From Chile,I had the same problem with my v30 speakers and guess what ..are 2017 model!!. So to upgrade the sound I use a small mooer eq pedal with in the fx loop of my bugera 6260. It is always on with a high cut about 6-10 db.
After saw your video I bought a 2022 model and did a comparision between the v30 2022 model (wich sounds just perfect). vs 2017 model.
I can tell you the improvement in 2017 model sound with the fx loop eq is A LOT!...its Crazy how can close to 2022 model you can get. (i think with a Eq with more refined eq bands you can get even closer to 2022 model).
PS. I am a bassplayer 😂😂... A "Tone chaser" so I know how important is to have a good speaker ( I did a lot of guitar and bass cabinets for other People and for myself .Due this experience Ive learned that the speakers rules the other parts of the chain ...Always remeber that they are the ones who "SPEAK" to us.
I actually emailed Celestion about this and they basically said the same thing. "It'll sound great no matter what year it was made." It honestly just sounds like PR speak to me.
It's the PR people speaking.. They have no clue technically.. Which is not to be expected but still.. this "ill informed" video and the last one speaks for itself
How could this be PR talk? A good pr manager would find a way to rebrand them to the "new Vintage celestion 30ties" and make money with new sales from ppl who have the speaker at home already.
Like other companies do it.
This is the opposite of PR.
@@AlexWBKK Yeah, actually you have a point. If their goal is to make more profit, that's definitely not the way to do it lol. Basically trying to convince me to NOT buy a new v30.
Seems like their goal is to push the new v30’s without admitting they messed up the last decade and a half. If you’re gonna sell bullshit, at least stand by your bullshit😂
Yes Celestion. Technically true it will "sound great no matter what year it was made." If you are swapping out a seventy 80 like I did 😐
It's wild how the 2017's just disappear in the full mix. Also, the amount of work that goes into these videos is incredible and so well done. Thank you for doing all this Glenn. This video was as nerdy as it was helpful!
I cant believe they're really tryna sell it that nothing has changed over the years. Our job is to hear these kinds of differences and now we can see them 😅😂
They will never tell that some batches are crap.
I love how honest and thorough you are with your videos and tests. You really just want the honest truth, and you will always admit if you are wrong. Very respectable Glenn!
Thanks for the fre IR, Glenn! Recently I mixed a song for client using this IR, and it turned out great. My most aggressive sounding mix to the day!
Awesome!
I recently bought a 1x12 Harley Benton cab for my Mesa Boogie. After investigating a little, i found out that this already houses the new V30 models, and it sounds awesome! This was exactly the sound i was looking for, but didnt expect from a V30. Thanks to your videos. Please keep them coming
The 2022B does it for me, such a great sound, especially in the full mix
There's a ton of noticeable difference from speaker to speaker. I personally believe speakers can only hit so tight a tolerance curve due to the production process and the materials used. Even trying to make them as equal as possible, I think there will always be this noticeable a variance from speaker to speaker... Think about pickups. It's all about how they wind them. Each speaker has a magnet and a coil. Those will have slight variance. The paper cone thickness will always have variance. The amount of glue applied will always have a certain variance... I just don't see where it would be any different than buying two sets of passive humbuckers from the same product line, and finding out there is a difference in sound from set to set... That's why tone is always like a treasure hunt. You find a bunch of shit before you find a piece of gold...
Very good points. I'm learning about all of this stuff, cheers mate.
Humanity right now really is struggling reconciling "I scientifically KNOW that there's a difference" and "yeah but your senses aren't even CLOSE to good enough to discern even the slightest difference." Yeah we know when you slap a car on the trunk as it goes by you "scientifically" sped up the car, but the statistical significance of that added speed is exactly zero.
I totally align with this approach. Anybody with a STEM background would.
While you are mostly right in the sense that there always be certain room for differences, you cannot nullify actual process differences with this approach. Obviously, the two 2022 speakers had a similar curve to them - sure, some tolerances were there, but the slope as well as the resonance frequencies were close enough to not think of them as different speakers.
The 2006/2017 version have such a high boost, that is not explainable through tolerances alone.
Dunno because 11 DB is a huge difference!, very audible ….that one cab had too much in the wrong freq band, noticeable screech!
Thank you so much for this video Glenn! Ever since I found out about specific years of vintage 30s being more desirable, I have been curious to see what the actual differences were from a frequency perspective. It's wonderful to have a resource that provides actual evidence based information about these products.
I asked Celestion about this because the V30 has been our stock 12” speaker (although over half the cabs we sell have custom drivers) since we launched our AVD guitar cabs a few years ago. I personally hadn’t noticed a change in the look or sound of that speaker since we started using them in 2019. Celestion’s response was that they haven’t changed the dustcap in that time - but that there is much better QC and various changes which would make a 2022 V30 sound better than a 2006 one. Having designed our own speaker drivers I’m all too aware how the minutiae of surround, cone and dustcap design (and the glue joints between them) have a huge effect on response in the non-pistonic region. So, I think your suggestion that the tonal change is from the 2006 dustcap being more heavily loaded with dope* (*not the drug) is a good one! There may be other factors too but dustcap radiation (and it’s interaction with cone radiation) really dominates the treble region of guitar tone.
This is what I like to see. I feel like the channel has been lacking in the testing and Experiments department. Everyone loves that stuff right now. Please do more stuff like this measuring speakers. I think the nerdy testing stuff is my favorite stuff that you do man!
Nice to see you conduct these sample experiments. If I were to guess for the underlying reason for the difference: the caps with less of that glue result in less stiffness or whatever are just less stiff and thus less likely to effectively vibrate in the higher frequency region.
From my uni class (10+ years ago) I remember that EQ cuts were harder to detect by ear, so some of the differences in these notches might not contribute that much to the sound (since they seem very similar with just a very small tip added to one of them).
Very nice job. Cheers.
Glenn, thank you for showing it clear what really affects the bass/guitar sound and what does not. Your knowledge is priceless.
Great job Glenn,you giving us the right answers thats why your channel deserve more subscibers,its essentiel to get the knowledge you 're Sharing with us🤟
Glenn, love the evidence!!! If these companies want to really dispute this, then they need to show us their evidence (which they can’t). I look forward to more of your fantastic content. Thank you!!!
Glenn you blew my mind. This is some REALLY GOOD SHIT! Thanks for the heavy dose of information!! Your channel is getting better and better.
2022 one i heard a big difference and I don't hear so good lol
Thanks to you i can see the differences now. Thanks Glenn 🤘
Love the research, the evidence and the clips! BTW, extreme kudos to the players - well played! And loved the mix as well, especially the 2022's. Yep - "nothing to see here". Maybe slightly off topic - Many years ago, I had a Vox Viscount (Solid state 2x12) with two Vox "Bulldog" speakers. I have since discovered that these apparently were OEMed Celestions. In any case, they sounded unbelievable - almost impossible to lose in the mix. So I've been a member of the "sound is in the speakers" camp for a very long time.
I really really like these in depth videos! I think they're really really cool! Good job Glen! ☺️👍
amazing how vastly different they all are.
also speaking of the "free plugins" video, i grabbed the fluff amp sim and it's incredible! i turned 7 plugins that i used to use for guitar into one!
I was literally searching for a free IR yesterday, thanks Glenn this is also very informative, Learning alot from your channel
For me it's interesting on many levels. I've recently started doing live sound and it's good to know how that frequency response changes. An 11db boost in a range is significant and managing it is potentially very important depending on the room.
That is a great name you have for youtube! I had to laugh. From a KIWI 🙂 (off topic I know, but had to say it)
amazing range of difference - in the isolated clip that 2016 sounds interesting (quite good) but the 2017 sounded fizzy (not good). I think I liked the 2016 in the mix the best overall as well - GREAT DEMO with real data - thank you!!
Good stuff using REW, very helpful comparing eq curves. Seeing the curves and hearing the differences should maybe help people also make a microphone choice for their speaker/cab and maybe avoid mics that might accentuate frequency areas they don't want boosted.
Really great video man. Thanks for making this!!!
Speaker location in a cab makes a pretty big difference, too. Try the same speaker but in upper left vs upper right vs lower left vs lower right.
I pulled my 12" vintage out of my 1996 Trace Elliot combo , and it looked like the brand new 12" vintage 30 I just picked up for my Marshall valve state . I never noticed the the center cap before, but now....
Awsome thanks Glen!!!
I've got somewhere around 30 or so V30's and I never thought much about the differences until my most recent tour. I was using a Silver Jubilee cab with V30's from 2014 and they sounded AWFUL. I ended up replacing them on the road with G12-65's and was happy with the difference. Then when I got home I went into my studio and played another Marshall 1960BV cab and that sounded great. It's wild there can be so much difference within the same model. I mean there's Marshall labeled V30's, Celestion UK, China, I even have some 2003 labeled VINTAGE 30MF that were "designed exclusively" for the MF280 cabs. There's a lot going on when all of us just want the ones that DON'T SUCK. Thanks for the video
That last point about the speaker having a massive effect on your tone, no matter what you do, is very true. I was looking at speakers for my Peavey Bandit and the Eminence Swamp Thang was one of the top recommendations. After hearing a number of examples, there was a mid frequency that I didn't really like, but I thought "maybe it will sound different in my cab". It did not. It sounded exactly the same as the sound samples I'd heard. If you don't totally love the sound of a speaker in samples online, you will most likely not like it in your own amp. I'd never swapped a speaker before so that was a lesson learned. :P
You said something in this one that made me respect the hell out of you. Cheers, Glenn. Looking forward to more vids.
This is a much better video than the previous! 🤘
This is an incredible show and an amazing episode, love this!!!!
It's great to watch and listen to those guys play that song! Thanks or the useful info too, I'm inspired to practice more and tweaking for better sound.
YESSSS! The scientific method does NOT lie! Brilliant, Glenn! Love you attitude and perseverance! Not only could I seriously hear a difference, but I could see it on your graphs.
Glenn, thank you so much for your research on this video and thanks for the IR. Probably 20 years ago I remember sitting with just an SM 57 in front of a 412 cabinet with headphones on making tiny movements of the mic, and the spectrum of sound changed drastically with every movement!!
Knowing that it is impossible to place the mic at the exact precise place on each speaker, is it possible that the differences in readings stem purely from mic, placement, angles, or fractional differences in angles ?
Great job with the video just a thought I wanted to throw in the fire.
And this is why I trusted my ears over my eyes. Thanks Glenn for saving our money and time for your most videos.
I worked in car audio for a few years in the mid 2000's and i was really into car and home audio before that. In my experience the ohm's ratings does make a difference in tone and changer with the size of the speaker as well so a 10" 16 ohm will sound different than a 10" with 4 or 8 ohms. As far as bass goes they get a tinny sound the higher the ohm.
I just bought a v30 this year and it sounds really good . Got it paired with a dv77 eminence speaker in a evh 2x12 and they are brutal together.
I heard that goop is called “dope” it’s to prolong the life of the suspension around the speaker. It’s like changing the springs in your car. The car is the same but the ride “feels” different. It’s probably affecting the sound more than we realize some models don’t have any.
Something as slight as a change in viscosity, and surface tension, of whatever epoxy or plastic material they coat the mesh with could account for some pretty drastic changes to how much ends up on it after applying.
Exactly, even if the materials are the same, this just looks like some induced damping phenomena is attenuating the amplitude of the response at those frequencies. I would especulate some kind of friction damping change due to the way everything might be assembled/connected generates that sort of local change in the frequency spectrum.
Basically the opaque dust cap is moving more air towards the center and causing that high end spike.
kohle did an interview with nolly where they talked for like an hour about V30s and nolly explains that there are differences in the sound V30s as you go throughout the years. they could indeed not change the design but use a slightly different material or something like that and get a different sound. id imagine a lot of the changes in sound are not intentional but just what happens you build speakers for such a long period of time. and of course the hours put on the speaker impacts it as well
In addition, dies and assembly jigs wear and get bent/damaged as production continues, or even get replaced, whcih can induce changes as well as changes in material supply, form companies going out of business to environmental regs. ONly real way to test would be to find out whatever dope is used on the dustcap, apply some more to a "good" V30, and take freq responses before and after. Or take a freq response of a "bad" v30, carefully remove the dust cap with an exacto knife, take antoher freq respnse in the same cab, carefully glue in a completely different dust cap, repeat.
@@luigigetsu I don't claim to be knowledgeable enough to be an expert. I have worked with pro sound engineers in PA. The frequency response will vary from driver to driver. The amount shouldn't be too drastic in quality brands if the same parts and processes are used. Comparison between the two 2022 drivers shows this. One thing I do know is no properly functioning driver has friction, except that which is exerted by the surrounding air. Any friction between speaker components would be from the voice coil and the fixed magnet. This would be due to overheating and melting the winding glue, causing it to work free or from weak/damaged spider and outer cone suspension. In either case that driver needs a recone.
Bro, you got a sub from Australia here. Your credentials are in your care.
Incredible video! Thank you so much!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Hats off to you Glenn you are one hell of a scientist. You even got the hair to go with it LOL, nice job!!!
GLEEEENNNNNN! Great video and I love the way you always follow the science and not your wallet. Also as much as I've been enjoying your improved guitar playing and shredding Priest it was great to see other musicians on here playing some original riffs.
I didn't even need to see the measurements at all ! to hear the difference ! but was proving a point was the issue of the graph thanks !
Thanks for the IR. Sounds EPIC!!!
Great info. Thank you for the IRs.
Damn, all this time I never knew you worked on Woods 1, I love that album!
Just checked the album booklet, sure enough "Recorded at Spectre Sound, August 2002".
I did a shoot out with EV12Ls since we had like 12 of them lying around from the early 80s to around 2018 and the differences were massive, but they all at least had the same character, this V30 test is like wholly different speaker types. I've never been a Vintage 30 fan but the later models sound pretty good. I bought a V30 loaded cab back in 2005 and I absolutely hated it and now I know why.
I loved this video. Thanks Glenn.
Just wanted to say this guitar player is my favorite that you feature. He plays like he’s on stage and I love it.
Amazing video! One thing I was missing was following: you tested the 2022 with boosted 7kHz. How about taking the 11db away from the 2017 version? Does that come close to the 2022 as well?
Can confirm, as of July 2021 ALSO have the clear caps. Will be installing tomorrow
Thanks for this Glenn. I just cracked open my 2x12 and I have the opaque dust caps and the kind of melty connections. Those 2017 you tested sound AWFUL and I have a cab that I am pretty has those models, time to get some new ones!
Another great video G.
Still using the free IR after a year. Love it! Loaded it on my Two Notes Cab M and Fender Tone Master Pro.
Really glad this one popped up in suggested. Super interesting comparisons.
With how 'basic' these drivers are, it would be really interesting to inspect the internals. I'd be shocked if the dust cap variation could make that much of an impact but with the newer ones especially, could just be better wire used on the voice coil due to them having to source different materials with all the supply chain issues of that time.
Also be interesting to compare actual sensitivity of the drivers. (I understand...only so many tools in the toolbox lol) I always found higher sensitivity drivers were 'brighter' and more 'piercing' while lower were more 'warm' but also a bit more natural.
This video really got me thinking about the amount of layers that impact the music from the artist to our ears. Thanks for keeping the brain turning!!!
Great video. Thanks for doing the work to show the difference visually and sonically between the speakers. I have Celestion G12-75T in my PRS Archon which was purchased in 2017. Will it be affected by this? I'll look in the amp with a torch tomorrow. It isn't a Vintage 30 is why i ask. Love the channel. Keep up the great work.
Thanks for the IR, sounds awesome! Better than the ones I paid for! You inspired me to order a V30 to try again. Been awhile, wasn’t a big fan of the ones I had years ago, but this is the sound I’m after. Now to just wait and see what version arrives!! Put a G10 Vintage on the order as well to compare. I liked that speaker paired with a G10 greenback.
Update: received the speaker and it is the new version with mesh dust cap and right out of the box sounds awesome. Sounds very similar to the IR. No ice pick. Very articulate, bright but not harsh, crunchy mids and tight lows. This is through a 1x12 cab, so those properties apply, but this speaker has been redeemed for me.
I bought a new 2x12 from Thomann in May 2022 and another one in July 2022. I haven’t A/B’ed them so I can’t say anything to the sound differences but the newer one definitely has clear caps and the older ones are opaque, so I definitely see the same visual differences between the older ones and the newer ones that you did.
I would really like to see a video where you take some 1x12” combo like a Peavey or something that many bedroom guitar players use but doesn’t sound really good, and see if a speaker swap could make the amp sound better. Many players don’t own or can’t use a head & cab, and I’m sure it would help out many players!
I did this to a cheap behringer cab… th-cam.com/video/MhnpRJzfEx0/w-d-xo.html
Nice work brother
If you plan future 8 vs 16 ohms video you should keep in mind that the way you connect speakers in 2x12 cab together matters (series or parallel). I am waiting to see this comparison with your approach. From what i recall Adam Steel did video about this topic.
It's awesome seeing such balance from you on your channel Glenn. The humility and humbleness you showed through the whole constructive suggestions section of this video was super refreshing to see. Humans aren't really known for embracing much objectivity in our perceptions, so it's always nice to come across someone, idk- FUCKING GENUINE! Cheers buddy!
Awesome vid! I really like how you back things up with evidence. A lost art these days in almost every social venue. Statement plus evidence = credibility.
I just checked my cabs and found that my 2018 V30s that came in an Orange Cab have the transparent cap and my single 1x12 from earlier has a dust cap that is still somewhat transparent, but not nearly as much as the 2018 models. I never swapped them around different cabs to see the differences, but my Orange 2x12 (OB) is definitely the one I favor the most. I just always figured it was because of the cab size difference.
During the last weeks I researched about this 8 vs 16 ohms thing specifically in V30s. There are several shootouts and technical explanations here on YT. After this I must say that, to me, the ohms of the speaker have a bigger impact in the highs response than being made in China or UK, the year of production, dome type etc. 16 ohms will sound fizzier, while 8 ohms will have that tightness we all love.
0:47 Celestion mentions vintage 30s being different 15 years ago.
If you purchased the Engl cabs in 2006, that would make them at least 16 years old. Mystery solved 🤘
It's easy to forget 2006 was a long time ago 😒
I might be crazy, but the 2015 solo'd sound pretty damn good to my ear. Full mix it's 2022.
Great video... Even being "I'll informed"!!! 🤣
I bought my Harley Benton G112 cab in 2020 (the 1x12 with the Vintage 30 in it), and I really like how it sounds, both recorded and in the room. So I'm hoping I have one of the newer good ones, and from what you said about "if you bought a V30 in the last few years", it makes me think I do.
Trasparent dust cap?
I've had '03 versions (was my favorites), Mesa spec 30's, '06, and recently a brand new one '24..the new one sounds incredible, real tight and just bad ass
Hey Glenn! Hopefully I can chime in with some useful information regarding 8 vs 16 ohm speakers:
Adam's "Every Celestion Speaker Compared" video, which you contributed some tracks to, showcases the difference between 8 and 16 ohm speakers. Around 5:56:03 he isolates the impedance changes by connecting both speakers to a 8ohm solid-state power amp (that - according to Adam - does not "see" the impedance from the speaker and can be run safely). There is a noticeable change in the top end, one that agrees to the differences heard in this video.
Also, in Kristian Kohle's interview with Ignazio from Jensen speakers (called "Meet a true GUITAR SPEAKER EXPERT!", at around 10:32), the interviewed engineer states that a 16 ohm speaker is more efficient, therefore it will have more top end than its 8 ohm counterpart.
It's really amazing that we can see and hear all those variables being put to test. Thank you for all the work, keep at it!
I'm not sure why a 16 ohm speaker would be more efficient, but the real question is how the speaker manufacturer got the different impedance. 16 ohms would take more windings, but could get by on thinner wire for the same power handling. Since the coil is attached to the speaker cone, I'd expect any weight difference to show up in the sound.
@@russellhltn1396 in Kohle's video Ignazio goes into a little more detail regarding efficiency and windings of the voice coil. Seems like the "standard" way for achieving a higher impedance will consistently make it sound brighter in any type of speaker from any brand.
Ohms law and Watts law will describe why there's a change
V=a*r
w=a*v
Let's assume 25v output a very pulled Out my ass number that makes guitar wattage and stuff easier.
25v/8ohms= 3.125a
25/16ohm=1.562a
3.125A*25v=78.125w
1.562a*25v=39.07w
A 16ohm speaker operates at lower Amperage so you can push more before they are heating up from current flow electrically.
Mechanically using the higher impedance coil should relate to better motor control especially on high excursion platforms because the voice coil will have smaller increments before the following loop of the wire compromising the voice coil.
Not saying that one can handle more power than another, but what they can do with that specific amount of power is different.
@@acexxxoasis I'm assuming when switching from 8 ohms to 16 ohms, one changes the tap on their tube amp. As for "A 16ohm speaker operates at lower Amperage so you can push more before they are heating up from current flow electrically." that's assuming thinner wire wasn't used to lighten the weight of more turns of the voice coil. Bottom line - "insufficient information - need more data".
Good stuff, next step may-be bring in a speaker guy and change dust caps, try out coatings of the membrane, add magnet rings to the original magnet etc. etc. etc. or you could find someone who does a professional klippel analysis of the different models.
I too, am interested in seeing the tone shift, if any, happens with the change in impedance.
I ordered the HB212 angled cab it is incredible! An they do have the clear cones in the V30’s sound is awesome!
That riff was absolutely killer !!! Gold .
Yay for band shirts. Was well worth looking up Behold the Monolith.
I have a set of 2015 V30's 16ohmers installed into a custom closed back 2 x 12 cab made out of 3/4 inch MDF wood and it was constructed essentially like a subwoofer cab, with no ports, for massive low end, excellent for chugging and riffing, I call it the earthquake and this little beast sounds better than any cab I've ever heard or played through in person, with every single one of my 20 amps, both combos, heads, and even lunchboxes, btw on your version sampler the 2015 and 2022's sounded best to me
Great IR, thanks for sharing.
You’re welcome!
Yeah. Like Celestion is going to admit they’ve been putting out a sub par speaker for years.
You nailed it !
The retailers just making sure they can sell all their old stock. Thanks for this kind of service and value you provide, Glenn.
These slight differences, even from speakers of the same model and year, are one reason you get those "special" 412 cabs now and then that just sound fuller than another of the same brand and year. Because when you put four speakers together that really fill-in each other's gaps and/or reinforce one another's strengths it can be magic.
2022 sounds pretty sick
I have Vintage 30’s with the opaque dust cap. They were factory loaded in a Marshall SV212. They were quickly replaced with greenbacks.
I bought 8 V30's in 95' to put in two 4x12" cab's. Glorious! No hi end harshness. Shakes houses but more importantly I found V30's can push a mid scoop way better than say a 50, 65, 70, 80w celestions. As I am a Thrash guitarist they are perfect for me.
Glenn your mixes always jam, regardless. You have a decent knowledge of EQ and Dynamics, enough compressors to tame an ocean.
My Mesa amp has a sound, a scooped sound by default as compared to my Marshall and Peavey. I’m in the market for more amps, as much as it pains me to add two lines.
Keep a bunch of mics in the vicinity of the amp you’re recording and use them, although you’ll only get rumble and resonance, use the summary of several mics and you’ll get a better picture of what’s going on in the vicinity of the speakers you’re cranking.
This piqued my curiosity. I purchased a used Mesa Recto cab back in 2k1 - 2k2. Anyway, it has always sounded really great. Having said that, I had to give it a closer inspection. The V30's in this were absolutely made in the UK, and if I am reading the stamp correctly, they were made 20 May, 1999. FYI, the dust caps are a light enough mesh that you can see the silver voice coil.
On last thursday, I ordered a V30 8ohms to pair it with a Greenback 8ohms as well, because there is a difference in the sound between the 16ohms. My 2x12 used to have Greenbacks 8ohms and I decided to sell them because I accidentally ordered V30s 16ohms for my 4x12 to experiment the mix of speakers, but when I got em, I was shocked that my Greenback 16ohms that I had in a 1x12, sounded better than the V30s, so I never paid attention if the cap is the black one or transparent... aside of that, I did recorded the Greenbacks 8ohms before, I really liked the sound, ao when I recorded the 16ohms, I did find a little lack of mids and it was more clearer, more high end and I had to EQ my guitar in a point that almost had to dial the High in my 6505+ at 5 and take the prescence at noon. I will wait until my 8ohms Greebback arrive to see the difference and install it in my 2x12 with the V30 8ohms and hear the difference, but I have IRs of my 16ohms, there will be a way to get the difference and listen it carefully, but I have to check on the 16ohms V30 because I bought them in 2019 I think or in 2020, so I have to see the cap if there is that to state that is the reason I feel my V30 sounding not so great for my expectations.
Celestion sometimes makes small changes to a speaker by means of getting a new supplier that makes a part to the same specifications but the specifications themselves may not be so rigid as to eliminate the possibility of having two slightly different versions of the same component that are absolutely interchangeable but yet not exactly the same. And some aspects of speaker construction are under the control of the technician who makes it, such as the pattern of the doping compound applied to the outer edge of the speaker. Some may drop the dope a little farther down into the cone face than others.
As for 4, 8, or 16 ohm tone changes, keep in mind that when you're plugging into different speaker output taps on a tube amp, you're plugging into a different portion of the output transformer's output windings. So the transformer ITSELF will have some effect on the the tone.
My gut feeling as to why ppl say different impedance speakers sound different is it might not be possible to wind an 8ohm voice coil to have the same mass as a 16ohm. Change the mass of any moving part of a speaker motor & you will change its behavior.
Looking forward to that test Glenn!
The efficiency difference between the impedance causes the change.
@@vorpalblades I doubt that. The speaker would be fed by a matched output transformer winding, so there's no efficiency difference. Only way to have a mis-match is if you hook it up incorrectly.
@@robwoodring9437 there us an efficiency difference between 16 ohm and 8 ohm.
That's exactly what impedance measures, resistance or efficiency of the circuit.
@@vorpalblades the word you're looking for is sensitivity. It's the spec of a given speaker measured in dB. And unless two models are different by more than 6dB it's too small to count. There will never be a difference in efficiency (how many watts are sent to the speaker) unless you feed a 16ohm from the 4ohm tap. Hook it up correctly, and a 50W amp will give 50W no matter which speaker you use.
That yell is awesome Glenn Metalllllllllllll!!🎶🎶🎶🎶🎶🤘😈🛸👋
I think according to datasheets on output transformers being used in a tube amplifier there can be varying secondary impedances depending on the ohm's of the speakers used which would change the response of the power tubes to the OT to the speakers and I guess maybe change the sound. I think the only difference would be tightness/looseness of the low end.
When using different ohm cabs with a head, does the impedance make a tonal difference?
Hello, Jeff.
I read your stuff with Premier Guitar and decided to write with a question about ohms. I was trying to decide on a Mesa/Boogie 2x12 (8 ohm) or an Orange 2x12 (16 ohm) when I came up with a question. Tone-do the ohms change anything if all other things are equal? Say, an 8-ohm head in an 8-ohm cab, or a 16-ohm head in a 16-ohm cab? My head will do 4, 8, or 16 ohms. I’m not sure if the Orange is two 8-ohm speakers in series or two 16-ohm speakers in parallel, I just know I cannot get the impedance lower. I love the Celestion Vintage 30s. I love the closed-back design and construction of both cabs. I really LOVE the look of the Orange cab. I have always heard the lower the ohms, the better the speaker response. Does any of this really matter as far as tone goes? As I get older, I am thinking a load is just a load. If it is a match, you are not overheating your amp and everyone is happy. So I guess the question is: Does the same speaker have a different sound depending on the ohm rating?
Forgive me if this is just a really silly question.
Sean
I would love to see a video where you take those old, really fizzy Vintage 30s and do Johans trick where you lightly sand the speaker cones to see if that smooths out the top end. That would be an awesome video! Great content Glenn!
Since we now what what's making them fizzy, it would be interesting to see if you could EQ them into being good. That in itself would be interesting science. Can you EQ something bad into something passable?
Or he could just have the dust cap replaced for a clear one to try and prove his point. It's an easy operation when done by a pro.
BTW I do love Johan's channel! Thanks to him I realised I'm a Greenback M person.
@@russellhltn1396 Well, u CAN EQ basically anything into anything! But the trick is, you'd need to know exactly what to do. In this case it helps he has the EQ curve of the "perfect" 2022 model, so in theory one could EQ any of the other speakers to that same curve and it should sound identical.
@@MaximusAdonicus I think EQing has it's limits. There's also transient response. An EQ can't change that.
i have 2) 2x12 combos. all crate vintage 30s. still searching for used replacements. music stores: why not buy a new amp? no thanks. green or hempbacks was what i was thinking. interesting video🍻
Nice work again, very well done.
Did you do your measurements near field (mic inches from dust cap)? Or more like .5m away? I believe that .5m would be best and be sure to place the mic in the exact same spot each time, otherwise the off axis response of the speaker will contribute to differences.
I have a V30 I purchased a couple years ago, and it has that see through dust cap on it. Cant speak on the differences in sound, but mine sounds pretty good. I also have a few older Orange 2x12s (not sure of year, as I bought them used) with V30s that sound good, but haven't taken them apart.