For the curious, here is a link to the Cults 3d page where I sell the designs if people want to pick one up. cults3d.com/en/users/TheOuterCircle/creations
(❓) Which are your favorite 🔝 Top Two / §-Tier STL FILE Sites (?)* (* are there some better than others e.g. for Characters, & other better for Vehicles, Terrain & the like? []:•}=*~
Macca , I can truly understand where this is coming from (realism) and normally I would applaude it , however , as much as I try and love these modells , even when you have told me the reasons behind the design and that it all makes sense and I cant fault you for it. In the end its a boardgame/figurine game , that not only needs rule of cool but also ease of recognition. Mostly for my opponents , but Im slowly starting to wonder if Ive been indoctrinated with the manga sized barrels .... Anyhow is there anyway I could tempt you into trying to increase the barrel size ? While I can understand the want to remain within calibers , the sizes for all guns slowly creep up , until it reaches the 6 inch I suppose , unless you got ogryn crew I doing the reloading for artillery pieces and then officers doing the calculating parts. But there is also the real world need for replacing the barrels after XXX amount of shots fired through it , so in my head cannon this is why the barrels themselfs are gigantic sized in 40k , as in they have found a way to minimize the need for barrel swap , or perhaps eliminated the need altogheter. So when I say , please increase the size of the barrel , I dont mean for you to increase the caliber of the gun , if that makes sense. I would also assume that in the realworld GW had limitation on how thin they could make the plastic model before it would brake under normal use. In the end its your lineup and I would respect any and all choices that you make , Im jus trying to convay a valid reason why I and maybe others have a hard time with the 'right' size , also thank you for the tips , are currently learning myself how do supports , since most things in epic(6mm) was 'released' so long time ago , none came with supports , so every little help is appreciated !
i think the oversized weapons started as a readability aid, better for threat identification. but like everything else GW, it's become a parody of itself.
In the beginning, before there were official Citadel vehicles. They encouraged you to use 1/35 scale and convert them over. That's why a chimera is about as big as a PzII, leman Rus is about as big as a PZIII, Malcador it about the size of a PZIV and Baneblade is about the size of a Tiger.
For what it’s worth Macca, what’s the “Kalliope Mortar” in 40k isn’t meant to be mortar, it’s a rocket system. Like a Nebelwerfer with two sets of launch tubes. Blame the Militia writers for that.
As I have grown older with the hobby (such as it is!), the more I have grown to appreciate realism in all my favourite settings even in settings as that relay heavily on rule of cool, so even something like my small assassin force which rarely if ever sees light beyond narrative campaigns (and rarely makes it beyond the first engagement!). I try to convert all their aircraft to contemporary stealth ideas: Minimal surface reading for radar, venting for IR, more defensive than offensive (no weaponry: what's the point, it's the cargo that's truly dangerous!). Besides which, it allows me to roll it out to other systems, which is nice. Super late edit.
You're absolutely right when it comes to gun size and caliber in the Imperium's armies, the alien races fare a little better. You designs are realy nice.
As a tank history hobbyist, a tank overlooked for the Leman Russ main gun inspiration is the Soviet ISU-152. In fact, its spot on! A Mk1 hull with a turret mounted ISU-152 howitzer.
It isn't anywhere near the size of that monster, and look how cramped the ISU152 was inside, imagine inside the Leman Russ turret! How would you even get the shells into the breach?! I think it's easier to imagine the main gun and small turret like the early T34 for example.
I recognize the technical excellence, deliberate artistic vision, and cool factor that went into these. I wish I loved them, but struggle to articulate why. Mad props to you for being the change you want in the world
Well I’ve wanted to do a krieg army for awhile and these are the exact grounded tanks I would want. And I was making such good progress on my orks to….
23:10 I would like to point out breech loading mortars are a thing (very popular with the french and Russians/ex-soviets). For example the Russian 82mm 2B9,shich can fire standard soviet 82mm mortar rounds (and it has special 4 round clips for standard 82mm mortar rounds too),all the way up to the soviet 240mm M240 (a towed breech loading mortar that uses a trolley to reload as its shells are too heavy to carry by hand) whose shells are the traditional shape and layout.
Mr Circle just curious if your sticking with tanks for the militia/aux range or are there any plans to make models to fill mechanicum tanks/robots that are only available in resin currently?
Battle Cannon could be thought of as a low velocity 130mm, similar in concept as the German low velocity 75mm when used of in the ealry war period of just smashing its way through armoured plate rather than piercing it.
I think you could possibly make arguments for oversize guns on the thunderer if you could work out a loading and reloading layout for the heavy guns. 7-8" with 2 part ammunition I think could be made to work in their chassis. But cannonically you'd have to say that they only carry 6 rounds tops.
@@armedbrit493 Or only one loaded round in the barel. Something like bathering ram. You drive with it close enoug to fortification and smash it to pieces with one big shell.
Love the video Macca, 100% agree and love the aesthetic and choices behind those choices! Always loved a return to realism in Warhammer designs, much like how the early Imperial Armour books worked!
I really enjoyed today's video I never really thought about what the imperial Guard weapons would actually look like in real life. Especially about the baneblade being that the books make it sound like a moving house and not a heavy Tank. I was wondering if you were planning on doing any infantry to match your tanks. The standard Imperial Guard model very ill equipped compared to the modern Soldier and historical Soldier.
I was going to say that im not a fan of the middle version of your armoured vehicle because the turret looks like it can barely fit the breach into the fighting compartment, glad you find it unrealistic aswell and have a more realistic size armament modeled.
Always wondered where the ammo carriers for all these GW tanks and artillery were given the can maybe hold 2 or 3 of the massive rounds in the hulls and they must be muzzle loading anyway since there is no way to load em in the turrets ...
Awesome video I loved it. Have you thought of a back story for your militia? That would be a good video. I have made 2 lists. I have a Rogue Trader Militant themed list and a Penal traitor list. Like you said it's such a fun sandbox to be creative in.
I look forward to printing these. Both for Heresy and Apocalypse. I love new Apocalypse and would like to have Vraksian army to face them off against my Krieg. These designs look great for Vraks themed battle.
Very good video, enjoyed it very much! For me at least, I got so used to those over the top huge guns, swords, weapons in general, that when looking at realistic scale models I need a moment to readjust to the fact that a pistol is not the size of a human torso 😅 Also, I found that for me the the term that works for science fiction designs that are more true-to-realism-but-not-quite is "believable": it might not be the most practical, we might not build it that way in real life, but it looks as if it would work.
The one that gets me is the macro battery on imperial navy ship if the barrels were not 1/4 mile wide it would be funny if they fire a broadside and then we’ll skipper we’re down to the secondary and 3 rate guns
Just a thought, your 120mm on the Leman Rus should be a bit longer, as it doesn't look comparable to a 120mm mounted on one of today's MBT's, great work though.
@The Outer Circle all good, it's just what I would have done, I would have put some crazy muzzle break on the vanquished, anyway great work and they look fantastic
The cope answer for barrel sizes is their flash hiders like on the m8 Scott and the barrel is pulled in much tighter. Wanna model this? Stick a styrene tube inside.
If l remember correctly the 40k vindicator actually has a little crane on the back for loading shells. But overall l think comparing the demolisher to the sturmtiger's gun is about as close as it can get, it is even modeled the exact same way with the vents redirecting the rocket's backblast outside. Also a marine or some sort of human forklift augmented thrall or servitor should be more than capable of logging around those 300kg shells, the only problem l see is with the ammunition storage. But yeah no way in hell you gonna fit that kinda gun into a russes turret and still have space for the crew.
Lovely designs and it's really refreshing to see tanks with a reasonable gun, not a fucking fornite toy. I am reducing size of everything, bolter, pistols, ccw. They really add "realism" to the mini I think
i like both your designs and geedubs designs, never liked the leman russ and chimera platforms anyways way too compact looking its almost as wide as it is long(with sponsons) im more of a fan of the baneblade and the variants of that. i hope you will do your own version of a baneblade as well maybe even some baneblade artillery🙂
I'll tell you what Macca. As a grunt I had to carry a couple of mortar rounds in my pack in addition to all my normal gear on occasion. Wholly fuck that was a heavy pack. It made for a hell of a pack march. I can't remember the calibre of the mortars the Australian army used but I wouldn't want to carry anything bigger for any distance.
I think the earthshakers are the only thing I disagree with, Right the leman russ point was that in the lore its a 122mm gun, and so you scaled it closer to that, well in the lore Earthshakers shake the earth, and are massive, so really a earthshaker should have a far better support in its model, with cranes or servitors to lift the ammunition, I am in support of servitors built into the mount, So the 6 to maybe 8" guns that you made would better represent the field ordance battery maybe I think in a scifi setting it is reasonable to have railgun caliber guns in play, and it would be kinda sad to lose them here And seeing a model of the Earthshaker carriage with like infrastructure built for it to function at its current... I dunno 12" maybe 16" size? would be awesome, maybe like teams of servitors lifting the ammo into the gun
6" shakes the earth plenty, trust me. Even 4" shells send a ripple through you when they land. The Morbus Bombard is what you're really thinking of for gigantic artillery with crane.
@@TheOuterCircle you know what nvm, apparently eathshakers are 132mm or 5.2" guns... who ever makes them minis and who ever write the lore aren't in the same building are they?
@dking6021 Compare the earthshaker to the Rheinmetall 130mm artillery or the Type 59 130mm artillery and you'll see it seems pretty reasonable for a 132mm artillery piece. The leman russ is definitely weird but the Ryza pattern seems much more reasonable, and we have to remember at the end of the day we have to measure the inside of the barrel, not the outside. While the tanks in warhammer definitely have somewhat oversized weapons, for once I'm not sure I 100% agree with Macca as I feel the Earthshaker isn't as ridiculous as it might seem at first, and there are examples of forgeworld bringing the russ turret into the realms of BL-10 152mm cannon territory, even if a gun like that really shouldn't be turret mounted... ever
@@Azkaellon9001 The difference is more due to the thickness and size of each part. Look at a 155mm gun like an M777 and think to yourself that it's a 15% bigger weapon than the Basilisk, in theory. But compare the actual size and the basilisk is the size of an 11.1" howitzer from WWI!
@TheOuterCircle The issue that arises from that is the M777 is designed to be a lightweight manoeuvrable howitzer, and is much smaller in size than the Type 59 130mm. I must admit I honestly have no idea what I was talking about for the Rheinmetall 130mm, I must be confusing it with something else since it's not even an artillery piece. The Type 59 however is an artillery piece with similar design in that it's big, fat and heavy, designed for long sieges and astronomically long ranges. For periods of history it was even the longest ranged artillery pieces in the world, and with it being a similar size (2mm difference) and a similar barrel length, it's interesting to see how the breach is a very similar shape and size, if a little smaller in real life. To compare, the gun breach on a basilisk is a similar size to the torso of a guardsman, perhaps a little bigger. The type 59 on the other hand has a similar size to the torso of a normal human being. While guardsman proportions are a little off, this seems to fit the range. A reasonable explanation for it being a little larger in the radius of the outer gun breach would perhaps be that they use significantly higher explosives than we do in order to propel their shells much further. I find it additionally interesting to point out both the earthshaker and Type 59 have the ability to use direct fire to try and penetrate vehicles, and do so with reasonable efficency considering it isn't their primary role. These two guns are perhaps as close as I can imagine for a real world comparison and I highly recommend at the very least giving it some consideration and a brief look over if you have a couple spare minutes
(❔) Let us ⛏️ your 🧠: *_Who_* are your *_Favorite_* 3DP/STL Designers for: a) Vehicles 2) Characters & D) Scenery/Terrain pieces (?) Can't wait to hear 🙉 & see 🙈 more Mac, to say you're an inspiration would be a legitimate _understatement._. [] ; • )=*~
For terrain, Sacrusmundus. For infantry there's a huge toss up. Lordchammon maybe? For Characters, I think One Page Rules has probably done quite a few I like, and so had Bestiarum. For vehicles, well, I am just going to pick myself because very few unique vehicles exist that make me feel like I want to buy them, which is how I ended up in this rabbit hole to begin with!
Oversized guns are fine. If you want super technical representation, play bolt action with its 17 variants of the same thing I want to be able to look across a 4 or 6ft table and see clearly what my opponent has
I also used a WWI German example... but jokes aside, I'm much more of an Anglophile, but the selection of vehicles the Germans fielded are much more in line with Imperial Tanks, the hull may be a British MK I tank, but the big hull-mounted guns are a very German thing. The British had tanks like the Archer, the Russians had the SU and ISU family of vehicles, but none of them look like 30/40k, whilst the Sturmtiger looks very Demolisher Cannon.
For the curious, here is a link to the Cults 3d page where I sell the designs if people want to pick one up. cults3d.com/en/users/TheOuterCircle/creations
(❓) Which are your favorite 🔝 Top Two / §-Tier STL FILE Sites (?)*
(* are there some better than others e.g. for Characters, & other better for Vehicles, Terrain & the like?
[]:•}=*~
Should do a crowd fund for an imperial army
Macca , I can truly understand where this is coming from (realism) and normally I would applaude it , however , as much as I try and love these modells , even when you have told me the reasons behind the design and that it all makes sense and I cant fault you for it. In the end its a boardgame/figurine game , that not only needs rule of cool but also ease of recognition. Mostly for my opponents , but Im slowly starting to wonder if Ive been indoctrinated with the manga sized barrels ....
Anyhow is there anyway I could tempt you into trying to increase the barrel size ?
While I can understand the want to remain within calibers , the sizes for all guns slowly creep up , until it reaches the 6 inch I suppose , unless you got ogryn crew I doing the reloading for artillery pieces and then officers doing the calculating parts.
But there is also the real world need for replacing the barrels after XXX amount of shots fired through it , so in my head cannon this is why the barrels themselfs are gigantic sized in 40k , as in they have found a way to minimize the need for barrel swap , or perhaps eliminated the need altogheter. So when I say , please increase the size of the barrel , I dont mean for you to increase the caliber of the gun , if that makes sense. I would also assume that in the realworld GW had limitation on how thin they could make the plastic model before it would brake under normal use.
In the end its your lineup and I would respect any and all choices that you make , Im jus trying to convay a valid reason why I and maybe others have a hard time with the 'right' size , also thank you for the tips , are currently learning myself how do supports , since most things in epic(6mm) was 'released' so long time ago , none came with supports , so every little help is appreciated !
i think the oversized weapons started as a readability aid, better for threat identification. but like everything else GW, it's become a parody of itself.
In the beginning, before there were official Citadel vehicles. They encouraged you to use 1/35 scale and convert them over.
That's why a chimera is about as big as a PzII, leman Rus is about as big as a PZIII, Malcador it about the size of a PZIV and Baneblade is about the size of a Tiger.
@@SCHMALLZZZ I think you mean the Dorn is about tiger sized. Tigers the size of baneblades is a scary thought.
@ThrA-X I think you have a reading disability. I said a 1/35 scale Tiger is as big as a baneblade.
@ThrA-X Dorn is about the size of a 1/35 scale Sherman or PZ IV
For what it’s worth Macca, what’s the “Kalliope Mortar” in 40k isn’t meant to be mortar, it’s a rocket system. Like a Nebelwerfer with two sets of launch tubes. Blame the Militia writers for that.
Yeah, which is odd when the crew are handling classic mortar rounds. Very bizarre choice.
I love these long form deep dive videos where you get to show off the things you know and are passionate about
As I have grown older with the hobby (such as it is!), the more I have grown to appreciate realism in all my favourite settings even in settings as that relay heavily on rule of cool, so even something like my small assassin force which rarely if ever sees light beyond narrative campaigns (and rarely makes it beyond the first engagement!). I try to convert all their aircraft to contemporary stealth ideas: Minimal surface reading for radar, venting for IR, more defensive than offensive (no weaponry: what's the point, it's the cargo that's truly dangerous!).
Besides which, it allows me to roll it out to other systems, which is nice.
Super late edit.
You're absolutely right when it comes to gun size and caliber in the Imperium's armies, the alien races fare a little better. You designs are realy nice.
Funny how most shells in 40k are shown as the traditional naval shells, but a smoothbore would imply a fin stabilized savot round
I'm pretty sure it's just they shunt them out like musket rounds
@@zdron07 when Krieger runs out of shells, he packs the charge with some shovels
Well you can have traditional shells in a smooth bore, but they would need a discarding driving ring or some kind that propels the spin.
Honestly love this video format.
Great designs btw.
Might pick some of yours up
As a tank history hobbyist, a tank overlooked for the Leman Russ main gun inspiration is the Soviet ISU-152. In fact, its spot on! A Mk1 hull with a turret mounted ISU-152 howitzer.
It isn't anywhere near the size of that monster, and look how cramped the ISU152 was inside, imagine inside the Leman Russ turret! How would you even get the shells into the breach?!
I think it's easier to imagine the main gun and small turret like the early T34 for example.
@@TheOuterCircle Oh, the Leman Russ turret would be completely non-functional! XD At least you could grease up and crawl out the breach.
@@walt_man 100%
I recognize the technical excellence, deliberate artistic vision, and cool factor that went into these.
I wish I loved them, but struggle to articulate why.
Mad props to you for being the change you want in the world
Are you also indoctrinated with the manga sized barrels ? ;)
Your designs are great! As a WWII being nerd really appreciate this video and the discussion!
Well I’ve wanted to do a krieg army for awhile and these are the exact grounded tanks I would want.
And I was making such good progress on my orks to….
23:10 I would like to point out breech loading mortars are a thing (very popular with the french and Russians/ex-soviets). For example the Russian 82mm 2B9,shich can fire standard soviet 82mm mortar rounds (and it has special 4 round clips for standard 82mm mortar rounds too),all the way up to the soviet 240mm M240 (a towed breech loading mortar that uses a trolley to reload as its shells are too heavy to carry by hand) whose shells are the traditional shape and layout.
Those breach loading mortars tho function on very different principles.
Completely agree. Your sculpts look ace by the way.
Love these! Glad you got talked into showing them off!
Mr Circle just curious if your sticking with tanks for the militia/aux range or are there any plans to make models to fill mechanicum tanks/robots that are only available in resin currently?
There are other things planned, yes.
@@TheOuterCircle yeeeeeeeee, looking forward to it
Battle Cannon could be thought of as a low velocity 130mm, similar in concept as the German low velocity 75mm when used of in the ealry war period of just smashing its way through armoured plate rather than piercing it.
I think you could possibly make arguments for oversize guns on the thunderer if you could work out a loading and reloading layout for the heavy guns. 7-8" with 2 part ammunition I think could be made to work in their chassis. But cannonically you'd have to say that they only carry 6 rounds tops.
@@armedbrit493
Or only one loaded round in the barel.
Something like bathering ram.
You drive with it close enoug to fortification and smash it to pieces with one big shell.
Love your tank nerd videos and passion for the hobby
Love the video Macca, 100% agree and love the aesthetic and choices behind those choices! Always loved a return to realism in Warhammer designs, much like how the early Imperial Armour books worked!
Awesome. Love your designs. Always good content. Thank you. Painting up Word Bearers. Love your input.
I really enjoyed today's video I never really thought about what the imperial Guard weapons would actually look like in real life. Especially about the baneblade being that the books make it sound like a moving house and not a heavy Tank.
I was wondering if you were planning on doing any infantry to match your tanks. The standard Imperial Guard model very ill equipped compared to the modern Soldier and historical Soldier.
Love the feel of the sentinel macca!! Very cool man! Thanks for sharing!
On the one hand, the predator is about the only 40k/30k tank with a reasonably sized barrel. On the other hand, the leman russ is kino AF
I was going to say that im not a fan of the middle version of your armoured vehicle because the turret looks like it can barely fit the breach into the fighting compartment, glad you find it unrealistic aswell and have a more realistic size armament modeled.
Great Video! Keep up the good work. Is it me, or do the front tank visor port look like a happy Jar Jar Binks?
I cant wait to start my militia army and 3d print a bunch of these tanks
Always wondered where the ammo carriers for all these GW tanks and artillery were given the can maybe hold 2 or 3 of the massive rounds in the hulls and they must be muzzle loading anyway since there is no way to load em in the turrets ...
Well trojans and centaurs used to be a thing back in the glory days of imperial armour but l think they deleted them from the game.
Love em, would love to print em once I am up and running.
Awesome video I loved it. Have you thought of a back story for your militia? That would be a good video. I have made 2 lists. I have a Rogue Trader Militant themed list and a Penal traitor list. Like you said it's such a fun sandbox to be creative in.
I look forward to printing these. Both for Heresy and Apocalypse. I love new Apocalypse and would like to have Vraksian army to face them off against my Krieg.
These designs look great for Vraks themed battle.
Very good video, enjoyed it very much!
For me at least, I got so used to those over the top huge guns, swords, weapons in general, that when looking at realistic scale models I need a moment to readjust to the fact that a pistol is not the size of a human torso 😅
Also, I found that for me the the term that works for science fiction designs that are more true-to-realism-but-not-quite is "believable": it might not be the most practical, we might not build it that way in real life, but it looks as if it would work.
the new guard Caliope is a rocket artillery platform, like a doubled up Nebelwherfer from WW2
Very nice. Agree with you about the guns.
The one that gets me is the macro battery on imperial navy ship if the barrels were not 1/4 mile wide it would be funny if they fire a broadside and then we’ll skipper we’re down to the secondary and 3 rate guns
Very keen to print some of these tanks, quick question though, what CAD software are you using?
Fusion 360
Just a thought, your 120mm on the Leman Rus should be a bit longer, as it doesn't look comparable to a 120mm mounted on one of today's MBT's, great work though.
Have to keep it short like a WWII short barrel panzer 4, the only barrel is for the Vanquisher variant.
@The Outer Circle all good, it's just what I would have done, I would have put some crazy muzzle break on the vanquished, anyway great work and they look fantastic
@@SeanM375 one of the 5 variants of that gun I made does have a giant muzzle brake.
Could you do a old school squat thudgun thing?
The cope answer for barrel sizes is their flash hiders like on the m8 Scott and the barrel is pulled in much tighter. Wanna model this? Stick a styrene tube inside.
If l remember correctly the 40k vindicator actually has a little crane on the back for loading shells.
But overall l think comparing the demolisher to the sturmtiger's gun is about as close as it can get, it is even modeled the exact same way with the vents redirecting the rocket's backblast outside.
Also a marine or some sort of human forklift augmented thrall or servitor should be more than capable of logging around those 300kg shells, the only problem l see is with the ammunition storage.
But yeah no way in hell you gonna fit that kinda gun into a russes turret and still have space for the crew.
My own personal theory was that a lot of the imperium had insanely thick barrels and the caliber was actually much smaller.
This... is the future!
Lovely designs and it's really refreshing to see tanks with a reasonable gun, not a fucking fornite toy. I am reducing size of everything, bolter, pistols, ccw. They really add "realism" to the mini I think
i like both your designs and geedubs designs, never liked the leman russ and chimera platforms anyways way too compact looking its almost as wide as it is long(with sponsons)
im more of a fan of the baneblade and the variants of that.
i hope you will do your own version of a baneblade as well maybe even some baneblade artillery🙂
damn these are so good you put GW to shame... and you did this for fun
Damn can't wait for that sentinel
I'll tell you what Macca. As a grunt I had to carry a couple of mortar rounds in my pack in addition to all my normal gear on occasion.
Wholly fuck that was a heavy pack. It made for a hell of a pack march.
I can't remember the calibre of the mortars the Australian army used but I wouldn't want to carry anything bigger for any distance.
81mm for the standard mortar. They made them even heavier when they added the blast attenuation device to the muzzle.
@@TheOuterCircle yeah that's right.
That was 20 years ago. I can't remember details that far back.
When your 120mm gun is actually a 300mm siege mortar: "This is an anti tank weapon right guys?"
Like the deal with the gun's
I think the earthshakers are the only thing I disagree with,
Right the leman russ point was that in the lore its a 122mm gun, and so you scaled it closer to that, well in the lore Earthshakers shake the earth, and are massive, so really a earthshaker should have a far better support in its model, with cranes or servitors to lift the ammunition, I am in support of servitors built into the mount,
So the 6 to maybe 8" guns that you made would better represent the field ordance battery maybe
I think in a scifi setting it is reasonable to have railgun caliber guns in play, and it would be kinda sad to lose them here
And seeing a model of the Earthshaker carriage with like infrastructure built for it to function at its current... I dunno 12" maybe 16" size? would be awesome, maybe like teams of servitors lifting the ammo into the gun
6" shakes the earth plenty, trust me. Even 4" shells send a ripple through you when they land. The Morbus Bombard is what you're really thinking of for gigantic artillery with crane.
@@TheOuterCircle you know what nvm, apparently eathshakers are 132mm or 5.2" guns... who ever makes them minis and who ever write the lore aren't in the same building are they?
@dking6021 Compare the earthshaker to the Rheinmetall 130mm artillery or the Type 59 130mm artillery and you'll see it seems pretty reasonable for a 132mm artillery piece. The leman russ is definitely weird but the Ryza pattern seems much more reasonable, and we have to remember at the end of the day we have to measure the inside of the barrel, not the outside. While the tanks in warhammer definitely have somewhat oversized weapons, for once I'm not sure I 100% agree with Macca as I feel the Earthshaker isn't as ridiculous as it might seem at first, and there are examples of forgeworld bringing the russ turret into the realms of BL-10 152mm cannon territory, even if a gun like that really shouldn't be turret mounted... ever
@@Azkaellon9001 The difference is more due to the thickness and size of each part. Look at a 155mm gun like an M777 and think to yourself that it's a 15% bigger weapon than the Basilisk, in theory. But compare the actual size and the basilisk is the size of an 11.1" howitzer from WWI!
@TheOuterCircle The issue that arises from that is the M777 is designed to be a lightweight manoeuvrable howitzer, and is much smaller in size than the Type 59 130mm. I must admit I honestly have no idea what I was talking about for the Rheinmetall 130mm, I must be confusing it with something else since it's not even an artillery piece. The Type 59 however is an artillery piece with similar design in that it's big, fat and heavy, designed for long sieges and astronomically long ranges. For periods of history it was even the longest ranged artillery pieces in the world, and with it being a similar size (2mm difference) and a similar barrel length, it's interesting to see how the breach is a very similar shape and size, if a little smaller in real life. To compare, the gun breach on a basilisk is a similar size to the torso of a guardsman, perhaps a little bigger. The type 59 on the other hand has a similar size to the torso of a normal human being. While guardsman proportions are a little off, this seems to fit the range. A reasonable explanation for it being a little larger in the radius of the outer gun breach would perhaps be that they use significantly higher explosives than we do in order to propel their shells much further. I find it additionally interesting to point out both the earthshaker and Type 59 have the ability to use direct fire to try and penetrate vehicles, and do so with reasonable efficency considering it isn't their primary role. These two guns are perhaps as close as I can imagine for a real world comparison and I highly recommend at the very least giving it some consideration and a brief look over if you have a couple spare minutes
All the guns are rediculously sized in 40k.
You compare a guardsmen in 40k to an infinity model which is true scale.
The 40k models look hilarious.
Personally I use bolt action minis with the newsr firstborn sets. It's the perfect scale.
Quedtion what program does he use?
Fusion 360
Nah man they gotta have two pour bastards have morter scale revolver scale speed loaders. haha
(❔) Let us ⛏️ your 🧠: *_Who_* are your *_Favorite_* 3DP/STL Designers for:
a) Vehicles
2) Characters
& D) Scenery/Terrain pieces (?)
Can't wait to hear 🙉 & see 🙈 more Mac, to say you're an inspiration would be a legitimate _understatement._.
[] ; • )=*~
For terrain, Sacrusmundus. For infantry there's a huge toss up. Lordchammon maybe? For Characters, I think One Page Rules has probably done quite a few I like, and so had Bestiarum. For vehicles, well, I am just going to pick myself because very few unique vehicles exist that make me feel like I want to buy them, which is how I ended up in this rabbit hole to begin with!
Oversized guns are fine. If you want super technical representation, play bolt action with its 17 variants of the same thing
I want to be able to look across a 4 or 6ft table and see clearly what my opponent has
Why do you keep using ww2 german examples? You some kind of wehraboo, Macca?
I also used a WWI German example... but jokes aside, I'm much more of an Anglophile, but the selection of vehicles the Germans fielded are much more in line with Imperial Tanks, the hull may be a British MK I tank, but the big hull-mounted guns are a very German thing. The British had tanks like the Archer, the Russians had the SU and ISU family of vehicles, but none of them look like 30/40k, whilst the Sturmtiger looks very Demolisher Cannon.