What impressed me most was when i saw the rocket tumble in flight yet remain intact. Every other rocket that even slightly deviates from a straight course immediately splits and disintegrates. So despite that flight not meeting all its objectives, that one action (remaining intact while tumbling) was the best proof to have confidence in its structural integrity. It is my consideration that it is likely the strongest rocket to date.
It was more a gentle spin rather than a tumble and if you take the time to actually analyze the footage you'll be able to see all sorts of leaks and streaks and whatnot coming out of the body - no person in control of their critical faculties will define this as "remaining intact". For something DESIGNED to be able to spend a serious amount of time on its side in descent that is definitely NOT a reason to proclaim any sort of objective was met. As for any other craft slightly deviating from its course exploding - yeah, that's one of the things that didn't work on Musk's sorry excuse to leech off government funding - the FTS. That abomination should have exploded the second it showed signs of being out of control, not a minute later, obviously due to physics rather than intentional human intervention.
@@georgytodorov7947i recall the venting was linked to the self destruct charges that failed to have an immediate result; they were small and it wasent to have the remaining fuel do the work
@@mdwallace you recall the official Musk statement on the matter or an independent verified source? Please spare me a few minutes of your time and let's do some thinking. Let's for the sake of argument accept the FTS charges did fire as designed (which they obviously either did not or were so poorly designed as to be practically useless - both signs of extremely poor engineering). I would ask a couple questions first: Where are those "failed charges" located? I'm no engineer but common sense urges me to believe that the most efficient way for them to do their job is to rupture the tanks in such positions as to facilitate the immediate mixing of the two propellant components - that is to say the single sheet of steel separating the two parts of the *single* tank (genius design feature number one right there). That wouldn't be a great idea with all that liquid whatever either side of the barrier. If I remember my admittedly amateurish research on the matter correctly, most high explosives tend to not work exactly as expected under extreme cold conditions. Anyway let's pretend that some real qualified thinking people work for The Stink and they figured out another location where the charges can be placed and... well do something (remember the best case scenario is operator initiated rapid disassembly). Where would that be? On the outside skin of the vessel? Cause remember it's all one single tube - no internal components to speak of. So... Outside it is. Where? How do you shield them from the extreme conditions of liftoff and reentry? How does that affect aerodynamics? Load/mass distribution? Remember the Challenger and Columbia disasters? How do they prevent anything like that happening again due to say... bird impact (known to happen)? What about a Lightning strike? Too many variables for a company with SpaceX's track record to deal with. And of course they would have to be somewhere around the tank itself - no explanation for the leaks seen on the upper part of the craft. Then there's the option to put the charges either side of the tank (top and bottom that is) and hope for the best. This would probably be the one to take into consideration, given that the leak is supposed to be caused by partial rupture of the tank right? Sooo... The skin is welded shut right? No cracks no openings - all one smooth sausage... Then all of a sudden *whooosh* all sorts of gases and vapor and stuff venting all over the place. Do I have to finish this line of thought or will you reach the obvious conclusion yourself? Of course none of this actually matters since an engineer's job is to have everything figured out WAY BEFORE the first weld is ever made. You know... material properties, forces expected, working conditions, how to make things do what we expect and want them to... Humanity figured rocket science out close to a century ago! Imagine if government made ICBM's had the track record of Elon's. There wouldn't have been a cold war - both the US and USSR would have wiped themselves out within the first several tests of these things.
@@mikedrake5738I'm pretty sure the comment was about the title of the video calling a common welding process "shocking", and has nothing to do with Elon or SpaceX. Your comment, however, is sad and pathetic. Try to think more and react irrationally less.
I majored in a welding specialty in my studies, that was about 45 years ago but all basic principles are still valid. I found your video very interesting and technically accurate. Well done!
I had no idea they used friction welding at such a scale. I remember having a toy back in the 70's that let you friction weld plastic models together, but I never imagined they'd use it with stainless steel. Very neat.
I think I remember that toy. It had plastic girders and plastic rivets, and a tool like a drill that would use the friction of the spinning rivet to fuse it into the girders.
@@davidbonk1672 Yeah, that's the one. Then you could use the power tool to rev up the tires (one of mine built dragsters) They always seemed to fall apart at a moment's notice, but putting them back together was part of the fun.
OK, a few points of better clarity here. The Flux core is turned into a gas when heated it releases this gas to prevent oxygen from getting into the weld and causing porosity. Not rust tig welding is just pernounced as it sounds not spelled out. There are 3 different types of mig-fluxcore welding short circuit, spray, and pulse. All 3 have different benefits and drawbacks. The main thing is that Flux core is just the type of wire used in the mig process. There are 3 types of Flux core inner shield and outer shield and duel shield. There is also a solid core that can be used in conjunction with gas. Also, the Flux core can be used in conjunction with gas. The main difference is in feed and heat forced into the material. The hard part about welding 304 stainless that becomes very apparent when dealing with 316 stainless in burning out the chromium by having to much heat in the material what tiger is reliable on one thing of putting a lot of heat into your work. And hitting the weld after you have it welding in the industry is called penning. It is done while the steel is still jot to relive some stress from the contraction of the weld cooling. Overall, it's a good video. I just wish you had a bit more research on the topic before.
Wow! I wondered about that. I didn't know you could use friction-stir welding on stainless, much less thin stainless sheet metal. Thank you for this video. I found it very interesting and informative.
Not only was the launch test article structurally sound enough to endure Max-Q, it even survived its own self-destruct charges, which have been beefed up for future iterations.
What are you talking about? Those charges never fired. A crucial feature not working is nothing to be proud of. Even if they did fire and nothing happened - that's something that needs to have been tested before the craft was even considered for launch. Additionally the engineer's job is to do the calculations needed based on the material strength, construction methods and all sorts of other factors during the design phase - not after the damn thing proves to be a literal death trap for the umpteenth time. All this tells anyone with an IQ higher than the average european shoe size is that: 1. Elon can't put three brain cells together across all of his companies. OR 2. Someone did do their job, but the solution was overruled by His Great Smellyness for not being cool or futuristic or something enough to suit the particular dose of whatever he is on that day (as has been known to happen countless times so far). Besides has anyone considered what beefing up the charges would mean for this piece of crap's already terrible track record?
Having worked with carbon fiber composites in both fiber-wrap and woven matrix composite forms, I think it is important to note that the weak link in carbon composites is NOT the carbon fiber, but rather the composite resin that is needed to solidify and form the rigid part. These resins are not as durable under high heat applications, as Musk's team surely found out. But the carbon fiber itself, likely would have no problem. with the heat levels anticipated.
Clearly, present day carbon fiber technology is not up to the task of serving as the skin of spacecraft. Perhaps future carbon fiber technology will solve the limitations of current binding materials.
@@roadsterman Yes, I've seen other formats too, for cylindrical sections, whereby you spin one up to high speed and force them together with great force, in a lathe designed for the task. The entire weld is made at one time, which I would expect might increase strength due to only one melting, or plasticizing interface being completed simultaneously, instead of a traveling bead.
Friction welding and laser welding are the wave of the future for starship construction. No doubt about it. I like stainless steel but titanium and tungsten should be utilized where stresses and heat are greatest. But I'm sure these guys already know this and do. Elon Musk and his Space X team never fails to surprise the world.
That FSW process is amazing. I've never seen that outside of plastics joining. Musk surrounding himself with out of the box thinkers is really paying off for all of us.
Used to weld turbocharger turbines to the shaft. Also used to weld stainless steel tubing lengths for a joint free run. Especially used in nuclear power plants where a leak is just not acceptable. Just two examples.
I thoroughly enjoyed this superbly-created video enlightenment regarding Starship's Welding Process! Very clear-cut explanations! Keep up the great work!
Welding engineer here. I have visited The Welding Institute in the UK aswell. I'm 95 % sure you are wrong. FSW is used a lot on aluminium. Not on steel and stainless, since it's a much tougher metal which reduce toollife to around 50 meter. The tool itself is veeeery expensive. I have followed Starhip since the beginning and I have seen no proof that they use FSW in videos etc. They do use it on Falcon Heavy though, where aluminium is used.
I started welding in 1966. By 1971 I was certified in Arc welding steel plate all positions. Over the years I was certified to weld Mill steel, aluminum, Titanium, stainless sheet and tubing as well as many other metal alloys from 0,004 to 0.120 some over 1 inch thick. I have even welded pot metal. I welded everything from cast iron engine blocks to to parts that are on the voyager 1 and 2. Made parts that went on F 18 fighters as well as others. Also for commercial air craft. I had to hole tolerances of 0.003 many times.
To sum it up: Spacex tried to do it very cheaply even though welders in other industries could have told them it wouldn't work. After initial failure they tried other inadequate methods that failed. They finally tried proven methods that were already in use in other industries to achieve moderate success. No extra credit for Spacex engineers.
@ElonMuskxx I have been reading science fiction since I was able to read. Am am 68 now and through the years I have watched technology catch up to the books. It only happens when people like you invest in our global future. Thank you. Where do we go from here?
They're bragging about upgrading to 30 year old technology? From flux core, which is normally used by home hobby welders that can't afford TIG? This does not sound like cutting edge to me.
Thank you for the time & effort to produce this video. Technical videos highlighting cost effective manufacturing techniques and discussing developmental improvements are additional modern day tools to educate students entering the work force. McDonnell Douglas engineering / Boeing Delta IV rocket program was also developing the FSW (friction stir welding) process in the late 1990s.
Can't stand musk, but the talent he has managed to assemble at Space X is astounding. Space X achievements are impressive, and Space X itself is an impressive achievement.
I am surprised that they don't weld in a helix, with the laser welding, they could make one tube out of one longer role and knock off the same weld length as the length of the final cylinder.
Helix welding cannot be done for practical reasons. There is no practical way to measure diameter of the Starship or SH Booster. The only thing that can be precisely measured is circumference and that can be precisely measured before strip of metal is welded into a ring. This measurement has to be temperature compensated in order to give consistent results. Ring to ring variations influence matching of ring edges for welding to each other and to "y" joints. Just try to imagine how would you precisely measure circumference of spirally welded tube?
@@KarolKarolak Start with one large building and a fixture suspended in air from one side with the same length as the finished part or longer. Suspend the first loop with full support all around the loop. When you measure the length of the diameter at a set temperature, wrap that loop around till you can spot weld the mark to the side of the role. The squareness of the roll you are making the tube with won't matter since the end will be cut square with the tube after the final length of the tube has been welded. If you want a smaller example, look at the paper tubes that come at the end of wrapping paper.
@@KarolKarolak ahh, it's not that difficult, a good quality servo system can hold the circumference to within a few microns if machine rigidity is good enough. the calculation of feed and speed is no different than what they are doing now. the tolerance of spiral wound pipes is pretty amazing considering the low tech process used to make it. typical holding thousandths of a inch over thousands of linear feet, with mostly manual machine tools calibrated by guys with high school diplomas.
All the problems you stated they ran into during R and D, I immediately knew how to avoid, would have avoided them before they happened,and all the fixes you said they used, were what I said aloud as I was watching, one would think Musk would have found a real metalurgist before getting that far. I also have suggestions to improve upon what they are doing now and also wonder how long before something else that came to my mind watching this will be a problem at some point. There may still be a hidden problem in the fuselage that wasn't mentioned. When Costa Concordia sank, I found the reason the hull ripped open from photos of debris that to this day, has never been mentioned in reports or in investigations. Surprises me what "Experts" and "Engineers" don't know these days.
Majority of those who know work for the DOD or NASA. Easy money. If you work for space x you gonna get dirty, burnt, and sweaty. But it's rewarding and the pride...
How does this guy know the first welders were inexperienced? What a foolish comment. There are legions of TIG welders that have government and other X-Ray certifications. And, Mr. announcer, stainless doesn't "rust." A t 4:17 "he" mentions a defective horizontal weld, and yet the opening is a vertical one. I'm beginning to think that whatever this site says, it's best to take it with a grain of salt.
Evidently the wielding is Very good with all the processes used , not only getting through max q but surviving the tumble and attempted self destruct well beyond expectations ! That thing just wouldn’t die a quick and easy death, very tough nut to crack!
Great video. It looks like Space X went from total amateurs to experts in welding technology. It looks like they hired some talented material scientists.
I've welded thin and thick walled pipe for the oil fields and sent the same welds through pipe-bending machines where it was necessary the weld be good enough not to break or leak when pressurized. Anyway all I'm trying to say and doing a bad job of it is the THIS refined older system of weld is well, naturally sheer genius. Way to go SpaceX.
This is very interesting, but it would have been nice if you had addressed the latest tumble. It might not have had anything to do with the welding, but there might be something to share about it and there's a lot of curiosity.
Welding technologist here, you describe amateur welders using FCAW on the mark 1 ship then grinding them down. Was there no welding engineering oversight? Are you sure it was such an experimental situation? I would not expect that from a company like Space X, then again was Elon too busy with Twit... X?
I appreciate the rapid evolution iteration of SpaceX engineering, and the crossovers with cyber truck, automation for rockets 🚀 drawn from the Tesla factories.. it's basically "not fair" how this confluence of innovation will take over the market and "own the future"
A Breezeline internet commercial accompanied this video. I had Breezeline and they had hours of down time every day for weeks on end before I switched to another provider.
Actually what I thought. Out of all alloys Stainless Steel is one of if not the easiest to weld. Especially with TIG. I too am not sure if Grinding the welds is the right way to get rid of the cracks. Everyone is saying that Space X is great for doing all this stuff but it just screams to me a lack of research much like this video. Stainless Steel when welded distorts more then most other alloys. In order for it to not distort a common practice is to pre heat the material with flame and post heat the material in an oven. Which I doubt Space X would do give you need to slowly lower the temperature. Using the MMA process -which I think is what they mean my Flux core, which are different things- Seems to me a case of "oh, you can weld it on site in position and minimize costs a butt load? Well do it that way." Disregarding all the problems that will come up. MMA is super hot because of the DC current you need to use which would distort the material more. Switching to TIG welding is a great choice because of the a AC Pulse current you can utilities minimizing the heat transfer. MMA is prone to Contaminating with slag inclusions and porosity. Which honesty I think is why they need to grind all the weld. So they could re weld the Contaminated welds. haha. Honestly the FSW should be the only Welding process used to weld things on Rockets IMO. It eliminates the chance for contamination and distortion. Contamation weakens the welds and distortion will put unneeded and unwanted stress to weird parts of the ship. All in all @theohlinsguy4649 I'm on your side here.
Carbon fiber seems to be an auto fail material in the hands of a dilatant. High temperature, compression loads, either can case failure in carbon fiber materials. Glad to see SpaceX using due diligence in engineering the Starship.
Rolls - Royce tried to use carbon fibre fan blades on the RB211 which had been destined for the Lockheed L1011 (I think) but the ends of the blades delaminated and were useless, they had to be replaced by Titanium. This extra cost led to the bankruptcy of RR and they were then able to renegotiate the engine price. LH were stuck as they had configured the plane to suit the engine.
Over-the-top detailed information is much appreciated. The Budd Company built stainless steel railroad passenger cars skillfully 70 years ago, and many are still operating in their demanding environment.
According to Wikipedia, FSW .....It was experimentally proven and commercialized at The Welding Institute (TWI) in the UK in 1991. So defo not pioneered by NASA.
@@MK_Maestro.1 The practical, real world use on space vehicles and structural aluminum, with concurrent inspection and testing of the welds, was pioneered by NASA/Boeing. Don’t be obtuse. And we all know Wikipedia “never” gets its facts wrong, don’t we??!
I am coming from the steel industry, I had a discussion with Ph.D. engineers about the use of aluminum against steel. My argument was that steel can be made much thinner than alu, has rust resistance, and has higher strength. That was 30 years ago. I guess I won.😁😁😁
If you're old enough you might remember the glorious Comic Book days..this was the late 1940's through the 60's. Super Space Ships everywhere from nearly all the Publishers. The Space X Starship is a mirror image of the Science fiction artists imaginations as early as the 1920's. Pulp Science fiction Novels / Mysteries were littered with Rocket Ships...happy times.... in fact, "Mystery in Space" starring Adam Strange from the 60's taught us plenty about science.
I would think Niobium stabilized 347 or Titanium stabilized 321 stainless would hold up better to the heat than the 304L (the "L" just indicates it has half the Carbon of 302). If any TIG welding is needed, then 347 would be the choice. The cold rolling does elongate the grains but that is not what makes the metal stronger. The rolling is called work hardening and the increase in strength is from an increase in dislocations in the microstructure.
4:42 - Wondered why they hadn't gone with tig instead of wire feed to start with. Seems that the techniques they adopted afterward are the same processes NASA employs in the Mars rocket.
BTW, cold rolling was how the first ICBM and first US astronaut to orbit the earth, was made, the Atlas. It's tensile was 210,000 PSI but maraging still being stronger.
Binary disc character 111101101100 is the first vertical turn until you make a stick drawing of some sort. Flaps up or down to stop positioning. And propellant flow egress or ingress
What impressed me most was when i saw the rocket tumble in flight yet remain intact. Every other rocket that even slightly deviates from a straight course immediately splits and disintegrates. So despite that flight not meeting all its objectives, that one action (remaining intact while tumbling) was the best proof to have confidence in its structural integrity.
It is my consideration that it is likely the strongest rocket to date.
It was more a gentle spin rather than a tumble and if you take the time to actually analyze the footage you'll be able to see all sorts of leaks and streaks and whatnot coming out of the body - no person in control of their critical faculties will define this as "remaining intact".
For something DESIGNED to be able to spend a serious amount of time on its side in descent that is definitely NOT a reason to proclaim any sort of objective was met.
As for any other craft slightly deviating from its course exploding - yeah, that's one of the things that didn't work on Musk's sorry excuse to leech off government funding - the FTS. That abomination should have exploded the second it showed signs of being out of control, not a minute later, obviously due to physics rather than intentional human intervention.
@@TruRepublican 😂😂😂😂
Fair point!
@@georgytodorov7947i recall the venting was linked to the self destruct charges that failed to have an immediate result; they were small and it wasent to have the remaining fuel do the work
@@mdwallace you recall the official Musk statement on the matter or an independent verified source?
Please spare me a few minutes of your time and let's do some thinking.
Let's for the sake of argument accept the FTS charges did fire as designed (which they obviously either did not or were so poorly designed as to be practically useless - both signs of extremely poor engineering). I would ask a couple questions first: Where are those "failed charges" located? I'm no engineer but common sense urges me to believe that the most efficient way for them to do their job is to rupture the tanks in such positions as to facilitate the immediate mixing of the two propellant components - that is to say the single sheet of steel separating the two parts of the *single* tank (genius design feature number one right there). That wouldn't be a great idea with all that liquid whatever either side of the barrier. If I remember my admittedly amateurish research on the matter correctly, most high explosives tend to not work exactly as expected under extreme cold conditions.
Anyway let's pretend that some real qualified thinking people work for The Stink and they figured out another location where the charges can be placed and... well do something (remember the best case scenario is operator initiated rapid disassembly). Where would that be? On the outside skin of the vessel? Cause remember it's all one single tube - no internal components to speak of. So... Outside it is. Where? How do you shield them from the extreme conditions of liftoff and reentry? How does that affect aerodynamics? Load/mass distribution? Remember the Challenger and Columbia disasters? How do they prevent anything like that happening again due to say... bird impact (known to happen)? What about a Lightning strike? Too many variables for a company with SpaceX's track record to deal with. And of course they would have to be somewhere around the tank itself - no explanation for the leaks seen on the upper part of the craft.
Then there's the option to put the charges either side of the tank (top and bottom that is) and hope for the best. This would probably be the one to take into consideration, given that the leak is supposed to be caused by partial rupture of the tank right? Sooo... The skin is welded shut right? No cracks no openings - all one smooth sausage... Then all of a sudden *whooosh* all sorts of gases and vapor and stuff venting all over the place. Do I have to finish this line of thought or will you reach the obvious conclusion yourself?
Of course none of this actually matters since an engineer's job is to have everything figured out WAY BEFORE the first weld is ever made. You know... material properties, forces expected, working conditions, how to make things do what we expect and want them to... Humanity figured rocket science out close to a century ago! Imagine if government made ICBM's had the track record of Elon's. There wouldn't have been a cold war - both the US and USSR would have wiped themselves out within the first several tests of these things.
This welding technique is over 30 years old. It is hardly SHOCKING!
Translation: We hate Elon because he believes in free speech. Oh, almost forgot: REEEEEEEEEEEEE REEEEEEEEEEEE REEEEEEEEEE
Yup, and ULA has been doing it for years
I find shocking grinding of welds...
@@mikedrake5738I'm pretty sure the comment was about the title of the video calling a common welding process "shocking", and has nothing to do with Elon or SpaceX. Your comment, however, is sad and pathetic. Try to think more and react irrationally less.
@@Cantthinkofahandle117 lol
This stuff is just getting crazier and crazier
Compare private enterprise SpaceX’s innovation, efficiency, spirit to Federal Agency NASA’s waste, bloat, sloth, & incompetence. Compare SpaceX’s Clean, green, reused, cheap Starship to NASA’s 1960s technology throwback, throwaway, polluting, $4+billion per flight SLS/Orion.
It looks like a colossal something
I am already wowed. This is what I love about SpaceX. They take failure and make it work for them. Constantly improving.
Thank you for your love, care and support, it's nice to chat with you here.. where are you texting from?❤️❤️❤️❤️🌹🌹🦋❣️
SpaceX does amazing things. But this is hardly the first use of friction stir welding in spacecraft. In fact SLS uses it.
I majored in a welding specialty in my studies, that was about 45 years ago but all basic principles are still valid. I found your video very interesting and technically accurate. Well done!
I had no idea they used friction welding at such a scale. I remember having a toy back in the 70's that let you friction weld plastic models together, but I never imagined they'd use it with stainless steel. Very neat.
Actually it would have used for carbon fiber welding
I think I remember that toy. It had plastic girders and plastic rivets, and a tool like a drill that would use the friction of the spinning rivet to fuse it into the girders.
I feel a Romantic loss for the skill of welding. On the other hand this is great stuff!
@@davidbonk1672 Yeah, that's the one. Then you could use the power tool to rev up the tires (one of mine built dragsters) They always seemed to fall apart at a moment's notice, but putting them back together was part of the fun.
Russian's use same machine with aluminium bodies of rocket's.
OK, a few points of better clarity here. The Flux core is turned into a gas when heated it releases this gas to prevent oxygen from getting into the weld and causing porosity. Not rust tig welding is just pernounced as it sounds not spelled out. There are 3 different types of mig-fluxcore welding short circuit, spray, and pulse. All 3 have different benefits and drawbacks. The main thing is that Flux core is just the type of wire used in the mig process. There are 3 types of Flux core inner shield and outer shield and duel shield. There is also a solid core that can be used in conjunction with gas. Also, the Flux core can be used in conjunction with gas. The main difference is in feed and heat forced into the material. The hard part about welding 304 stainless that becomes very apparent when dealing with 316 stainless in burning out the chromium by having to much heat in the material what tiger is reliable on one thing of putting a lot of heat into your work. And hitting the weld after you have it welding in the industry is called penning. It is done while the steel is still jot to relive some stress from the contraction of the weld cooling. Overall, it's a good video. I just wish you had a bit more research on the topic before.
Clarification. In fluxcore the flux is inside the wire. Not wrapped around it.
Hence the name.
Wow! I wondered about that. I didn't know you could use friction-stir welding on stainless, much less thin stainless sheet metal. Thank you for this video. I found it very interesting and informative.
Glad I could help!
Not only was the launch test article structurally sound enough to endure Max-Q, it even survived its own self-destruct charges, which have been beefed up for future iterations.
What are you talking about? Those charges never fired. A crucial feature not working is nothing to be proud of. Even if they did fire and nothing happened - that's something that needs to have been tested before the craft was even considered for launch.
Additionally the engineer's job is to do the calculations needed based on the material strength, construction methods and all sorts of other factors during the design phase - not after the damn thing proves to be a literal death trap for the umpteenth time. All this tells anyone with an IQ higher than the average european shoe size is that: 1. Elon can't put three brain cells together across all of his companies. OR 2. Someone did do their job, but the solution was overruled by His Great Smellyness for not being cool or futuristic or something enough to suit the particular dose of whatever he is on that day (as has been known to happen countless times so far).
Besides has anyone considered what beefing up the charges would mean for this piece of crap's already terrible track record?
Excellent history of SpaceX welding processes.
Having worked with carbon fiber composites in both fiber-wrap and woven matrix composite forms, I think it is important to note that the weak link in carbon composites is NOT the carbon fiber, but rather the composite resin that is needed to solidify and form the rigid part. These resins are not as durable under high heat applications, as Musk's team surely found out. But the carbon fiber itself, likely would have no problem. with the heat levels anticipated.
Could you replace resin with something else? Flexible concrete? Low melt alloy?
Clearly, present day carbon fiber technology is not up to the task of serving as the skin of spacecraft. Perhaps future carbon fiber technology will solve the limitations of current binding materials.
Starship just keeps getting more impressive!
I remember being a kid watching black and white movies with rockets that would takeoff and land. Now they’re here. It blows my mind.
There are about 50 welding processes. Friction stir welding is not a new. Process. For accurate information cosult the American Welding Society.
@@roadsterman Yes, I've seen other formats too, for cylindrical sections, whereby you spin one up to high speed and force them together with great force, in a lathe designed for the task. The entire weld is made at one time, which I would expect might increase strength due to only one melting, or plasticizing interface being completed simultaneously, instead of a traveling bead.
Thank you for a video offering the material science processes that make it probable for less failures.
Thank you for your love, care and support, it's nice to chat with you here.. where are you texting from?❤️❤️❤️❤️🌹🌹🦋❣️
Friction welding and laser welding are the wave of the future for starship construction. No doubt about it. I like stainless steel but titanium and tungsten should be utilized where stresses and heat are greatest. But I'm sure these guys already know this and do. Elon Musk and his Space X team never fails to surprise the world.
Mind-boggling! Beyond brilliant.
WOW, that was well done. Great video in every metric. Subscribed.
Never grind or sand a structural weld. It is a stress riser.
Glad you are on the right track now. Good luck .
That's the plan!
Great video!
That FSW process is amazing. I've never seen that outside of plastics joining.
Musk surrounding himself with out of the box thinkers is really paying off for all of us.
Used to weld turbocharger turbines to the shaft. Also used to weld stainless steel tubing lengths for a joint free run. Especially used in nuclear power plants where a leak is just not acceptable. Just two examples.
Good report!
That was amazing!! I just wish we could get more video of the welding and other processes! Can’t get enough of Space X
More to come!
good video. kept me interested from start to finish. I learned a lot.
Well done. will check back for more videos
i cant wait to be a part of space x's welding team
I thoroughly enjoyed this superbly-created video enlightenment regarding Starship's Welding Process! Very clear-cut explanations! Keep up the great work!
Thank you very much!
like the easy-to-understand explanation of the processes used.
Learned so much thank you
Welding engineer here. I have visited The Welding Institute in the UK aswell.
I'm 95 % sure you are wrong.
FSW is used a lot on aluminium. Not on steel and stainless, since it's a much tougher metal which reduce toollife to around 50 meter. The tool itself is veeeery expensive.
I have followed Starhip since the beginning and I have seen no proof that they use FSW in videos etc. They do use it on Falcon Heavy though, where aluminium is used.
Yes I did learn something new. The final welding solution was known by me previously, but it's interesting to see the Friction Welding results.
Very good detail on technical progress.
I started welding in 1966. By 1971 I was certified in Arc welding steel plate all positions. Over the years I was certified to weld Mill steel, aluminum, Titanium, stainless sheet and tubing as well as many other metal alloys from 0,004 to 0.120 some over 1 inch thick. I have even welded pot metal. I welded everything from cast iron engine blocks to to parts that are on the voyager 1 and 2. Made parts that went on F 18 fighters as well as others. Also for commercial air craft. I had to hole tolerances of 0.003 many times.
To sum it up: Spacex tried to do it very cheaply even though welders in other industries could have told them it wouldn't work. After initial failure they tried other inadequate methods that failed. They finally tried proven methods that were already in use in other industries to achieve moderate success. No extra credit for Spacex engineers.
Well put together. The video and the Starship. But not sure the industry was shocked.
Fascinating
Amazing!
Watched friction stir welding being carried out on Eclipse jet … really cool process
I didnt know you could grind down a weld to strength it
Starship looks like a rocket from one of those awesome 1950's sci-fi movies.
Love Space X and what they are doing. :)
Thank you for your love, care and support, it's nice to chat with you here.. where are you texting from?❤️❤️❤️❤️🌹🌹🦋❣️
Washington State@@ElonMuskxx
@@GarysBBQSupplies how long have you been a fan of mine?
@ElonMuskxx I have been reading science fiction since I was able to read. Am am 68 now and through the years I have watched technology catch up to the books. It only happens when people like you invest in our global future. Thank you. Where do we go from here?
@@GarysBBQSupplies do you mind talking privately elsewhere?
Blessings from Kalispell Montana USA
I've got my fingers crossed that the launch heat & reentry heat will give the Starship & SuperHeavy a heat rainbow.
They're bragging about upgrading to 30 year old technology? From flux core, which is normally used by home hobby welders that can't afford TIG? This does not sound like cutting edge to me.
Mind well and truly blown... 🤯
Good Report - There were new things to learn.
Nice video, 10/10
Glad you enjoyed it
Thank you for the time & effort to produce this video. Technical videos highlighting cost effective manufacturing techniques and discussing developmental improvements are additional modern day tools to educate students entering the work force. McDonnell Douglas engineering / Boeing Delta IV rocket program was also developing the FSW (friction stir welding) process in the late 1990s.
Glad it was helpful!
Where do you think the people working there come from ?
Can't stand musk, but the talent he has managed to assemble at Space X is astounding. Space X achievements are impressive, and Space X itself is an impressive achievement.
Thanks! Really good stuff!
Glad you liked it!
Really god technical pverview. I had not known of FSW. Great content in this video. Well Done.
Glad you enjoyed it!
0:13 _"It garnished high praise."_
F-ing geniuses.
Any idea when the next test launch will be...🖖
The closeup of the engines being maneuverd reminds me of the film "District 9" when the alien spaceship takes off!
Less hype, more facts . I like it, thx!
ULA has been using friction stir welding for long time, there are TH-cam videos of a factory tour showing it. Its a very cool video.
Amazing good info, thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Great video, very informative. Keep up the good work.
Much appreciated!
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I am surprised that they don't weld in a helix, with the laser welding, they could make one tube out of one longer role and knock off the same weld length as the length of the final cylinder.
it would be stronger, I have been saying this for a while, just wrap a big tube, then slide in the addons
Helix welding cannot be done for practical reasons. There is no
practical way to measure diameter of the Starship or SH Booster. The only thing that can be precisely measured is circumference and that can be precisely measured before strip of metal is welded into a ring. This measurement has to be temperature compensated in order to give consistent results. Ring to ring variations influence matching of ring edges for welding to each other and to "y" joints. Just try to imagine how would you precisely measure circumference of spirally welded tube?
@@KarolKarolak Start with one large building and a fixture suspended in air from one side with the same length as the finished part or longer. Suspend the first loop with full support all around the loop. When you measure the length of the diameter at a set temperature, wrap that loop around till you can spot weld the mark to the side of the role. The squareness of the roll you are making the tube with won't matter since the end will be cut square with the tube after the final length of the tube has been welded. If you want a smaller example, look at the paper tubes that come at the end of wrapping paper.
@@KarolKarolak ahh, it's not that difficult, a good quality servo system can hold the circumference to within a few microns if machine rigidity is good enough. the calculation of feed and speed is no different than what they are doing now. the tolerance of spiral wound pipes is pretty amazing considering the low tech process used to make it. typical holding thousandths of a inch over thousands of linear feet, with mostly manual machine tools calibrated by guys with high school diplomas.
@@martinsoos How do you know that your "loop" represents circumference of a circle and not circumference of an ellipsoid?
Where are they using friction stir welding?
Is there a sub structure? Or are they essentially just big sheet metal tanks?
I used to work at LTV in cleveland making stainless steels and coldroll. Looks a lot like our products.
great!
All the problems you stated they ran into during R and D, I immediately knew how to avoid, would have avoided them before they happened,and all the fixes you said they used, were what I said aloud as I was watching, one would think Musk would have found a real metalurgist before getting that far. I also have suggestions to improve upon what they are doing now and also wonder how long before something else that came to my mind watching this will be a problem at some point.
There may still be a hidden problem in the fuselage that wasn't mentioned.
When Costa Concordia sank, I found the reason the hull ripped open from photos of debris that to this day, has never been mentioned in reports or in investigations.
Surprises me what "Experts" and "Engineers" don't know these days.
Majority of those who know work for the DOD or NASA. Easy money. If you work for space x you gonna get dirty, burnt, and sweaty. But it's rewarding and the pride...
He just needs an actual welder. One with TIG experience that’s actually good not a TH-camr.
An interesting video, I didn't see anything in it that warrented the clickbait title about them shocking the welding industry.
How does this guy know the first welders were inexperienced? What a foolish comment. There are legions of TIG welders that have government and other X-Ray certifications. And, Mr. announcer, stainless doesn't "rust." A t 4:17 "he" mentions a defective horizontal weld, and yet the opening is a vertical one. I'm beginning to think that whatever this site says, it's best to take it with a grain of salt.
Evidently the wielding is Very good with all the processes used , not only getting through max q but surviving the tumble and attempted self destruct well beyond expectations ! That thing just wouldn’t die a quick and easy death, very tough nut to crack!
For me, it was enlightening.
It barely got to 10% of their intended speed 😂 yeah a real success for you dupes
Great video. It looks like Space X went from total amateurs to experts in welding technology. It looks like they hired some talented material scientists.
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I've welded thin and thick walled pipe for the oil fields and sent the same welds through pipe-bending machines where it was necessary the weld be good enough not to break or leak when pressurized. Anyway all I'm trying to say and doing a bad job of it is the THIS refined older system of weld is well, naturally sheer genius. Way to go SpaceX.
They should put dimples on the surface like the golfballs maybe will help with sturdiness and aerodynamics
This is very interesting, but it would have been nice if you had addressed the latest tumble. It might not have had anything to do with the welding, but there might be something to share about it and there's a lot of curiosity.
Welding technologist here, you describe amateur welders using FCAW on the mark 1 ship then grinding them down. Was there no welding engineering oversight? Are you sure it was such an experimental situation? I would not expect that from a company like Space X, then again was Elon too busy with Twit... X?
The implosion on the voyage to the titanic proves carbon fibers reliability, certainly 😂
So the starfactory is full of master welder now !!! 😊
They had any old welders in the early days 😂
Enjoy the updates.
We have been using pressure welding for years to refurbish internal jet engine parts from the hot section.
At 0:12 “beauty that GARNISHED high praise” 🤣 you mean like.. ketchup ? ... try ‘garnered’.
Space-X finally started making the rockets more like and then surpass the military made ICBMs. The riveting was also a big improvement.
You forgot to mention anything about the NDT program in checking weld Integrity
Ok I've resubscribed ;)
Also, I think the process would reduce drag somewhat.
I appreciate the rapid evolution iteration of SpaceX engineering, and the crossovers with cyber truck, automation for rockets 🚀 drawn from the Tesla factories.. it's basically "not fair" how this confluence of innovation will take over the market and "own the future"
A Breezeline internet commercial accompanied this video. I had Breezeline and they had hours of down time every day for weeks on end before I switched to another provider.
Stainless steel, especially the 304L they are using is quite easy to weld. I am not so sure that grinding the welds is a good idea and adds strength.
Someone talking crap here
Actually what I thought. Out of all alloys Stainless Steel is one of if not the easiest to weld. Especially with TIG. I too am not sure if Grinding the welds is the right way to get rid of the cracks.
Everyone is saying that Space X is great for doing all this stuff but it just screams to me a lack of research much like this video. Stainless Steel when welded distorts more then most other alloys. In order for it to not distort a common practice is to pre heat the material with flame and post heat the material in an oven. Which I doubt Space X would do give you need to slowly lower the temperature.
Using the MMA process -which I think is what they mean my Flux core, which are different things- Seems to me a case of "oh, you can weld it on site in position and minimize costs a butt load? Well do it that way." Disregarding all the problems that will come up. MMA is super hot because of the DC current you need to use which would distort the material more. Switching to TIG welding is a great choice because of the a AC Pulse current you can utilities minimizing the heat transfer. MMA is prone to Contaminating with slag inclusions and porosity. Which honesty I think is why they need to grind all the weld. So they could re weld the Contaminated welds. haha.
Honestly the FSW should be the only Welding process used to weld things on Rockets IMO. It eliminates the chance for contamination and distortion. Contamation weakens the welds and distortion will put unneeded and unwanted stress to weird parts of the ship.
All in all @theohlinsguy4649 I'm on your side here.
Carbon fiber seems to be an auto fail material in the hands of a dilatant. High temperature, compression loads, either can case failure in carbon fiber materials. Glad to see SpaceX using due diligence in engineering the Starship.
you guys need too get with blue origin
Rolls - Royce tried to use carbon fibre fan blades on the RB211 which had been destined for the Lockheed L1011 (I think) but the ends of the blades delaminated and were useless, they had to be replaced by Titanium. This extra cost led to the bankruptcy of RR and they were then able to renegotiate the engine price. LH were stuck as they had configured the plane to suit the engine.
Over-the-top detailed information is much appreciated.
The Budd Company built stainless steel railroad passenger cars skillfully 70 years ago, and many are still operating in their demanding environment.
A Scandium/Aluminum alloy would lighten the weight around 20 percent and give the material Titanium qualities.
FSW (Friction Stir Welding) is used and was pioneered by NASA/Boeing for the Artemis Core Stage! SpaceX borrowed it.
According to Wikipedia, FSW .....It was experimentally proven and commercialized at The Welding Institute (TWI) in the UK in 1991. So defo not pioneered by NASA.
@@MK_Maestro.1 The practical, real world use on space vehicles and structural aluminum, with concurrent inspection and testing of the welds, was pioneered by NASA/Boeing. Don’t be obtuse.
And we all know Wikipedia “never” gets its facts wrong, don’t we??!
I am coming from the steel industry, I had a discussion with Ph.D. engineers about the use of aluminum against steel. My argument was that steel can be made much thinner than alu, has rust resistance, and has higher strength. That was 30 years ago. I guess I won.😁😁😁
Friggin crazy how much power that giant spray can can handle.
If you're old enough you might remember the glorious Comic Book days..this was the late 1940's through the 60's. Super Space Ships everywhere from nearly all the Publishers. The Space X Starship is a mirror image of the Science fiction artists imaginations as early as the 1920's. Pulp Science fiction Novels / Mysteries were littered with Rocket Ships...happy times.... in fact, "Mystery in Space" starring Adam Strange from the 60's taught us plenty about science.
I would think Niobium stabilized 347 or Titanium stabilized 321 stainless would hold up better to the heat than the 304L (the "L" just indicates it has half the Carbon of 302). If any TIG welding is needed, then 347 would be the choice. The cold rolling does elongate the grains but that is not what makes the metal stronger. The rolling is called work hardening and the increase in strength is from an increase in dislocations in the microstructure.
Them welders must get paaaaaaaaiiiid!!
4:42 - Wondered why they hadn't gone with tig instead of wire feed to start with. Seems that the techniques they adopted afterward are the same processes NASA employs in the Mars rocket.
You left out a key factor in the composite construction, the resin binder at 50% ratio. It shrinks and expands in the light and dark of space life.
Thank you for your comment! i will note that!
BTW, cold rolling was how the first ICBM and first US astronaut to orbit the earth, was made, the Atlas. It's tensile was 210,000 PSI but maraging still being stronger.
They can still get a sick vinyl wrap with carbon fibre print, noone'll get close enough to tell the difference.
Binary disc character 111101101100 is the first vertical turn until you make a stick drawing of some sort. Flaps up or down to stop positioning. And propellant flow egress or ingress
Brilliant video thanks
Glad you enjoyed it