Such harmonies would work nicely on an organ, especially tuned in some pre-Bachian non-equal temperament (a fact: Handel discouraged equal temperament and never created something like Bach's WTC or Chromatic fantasy - could be because he wrote so much for voice: operas, oratories, anthems etc?).
Instruments are bound by what it called "equal temperament." That is to say, A4 is 440 Hz and all of it's *equally* divisible equivalents.( A220 or A880, are the octaves above and below A4.) for example. All notes are similarly specific and equally spaced. Western Culture bases all it's tuning around these note designations. Nature doesn't work like that though, she doesn't give a shit. What we might identify as an "A" could fall anywhere within a very finite Hz range of pitches. It's like paint shopping at Home Depot. You're gonna find a whole mess of green colors, there is no "one true green." Let's be real, you're gonna go home with something like "Summer Mist" or whatever, because it matches your curtains or furniture. Anyone with synesthesia or any person with perfect pitch will tell you that sound works the same way. Human voices are super flexible in this way though. Because people, singers especially, are super sensitive to pitch (even though we don't think so) we're likely to adjust on a micro-tonal level towards a more "perfect" harmony than is achievable by instruments.
***** There are other instruments that are MORE flexible, sure. But not quite as instantly adjustable. Like, I can bend the strings of my guitar to raise the pitch. Or you could overblow on a wind instrument to get a sharper pitch. But the voice adjusts naturally in that instant.
Go find a strong wind ensemble playing Whitacre or Lauridsen or Grainger or anybody else who likes dissonant intervals. Wind players are taught to aim high on minor thirds, low on major thirds, etc., starting in high school. Instrument makers use equal temperament but good bands sure don't.
6 years later, and I still LOVE this video It's like he completely explained exactly how I felt about those exact chords then and how I still feel about them now
I agree with you that your cluster chords work a lot better with voices than on other instruments. Don't know why. As a pianist, I play the piano reductions of your works for fun - but the chords don't work as well on that instrument.
I wonder if it could be due to differences in tuning, e.g. just intonation vs. equal temperament.
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It is due to just intonation, good singers naturally locking on the perfectly mathematical harmonic ratios which brings more clarity compared to an equal tempered piano
Wow! I ve heard this famous especially known for his choral work mentined a lot in the last 7 years . i thought he had been arounf for enerations but NO he's great looking young guy ! I so rarely listen to choral music ! Beyond Messiaen I've heard nothing ! Homework !
Wow! I feel exactly the same way about the cluster, beautiful and painful. I have been in choirs since I was 10. There is no comparison to the beauty of many voices being one. It's God given.
when you play some of cloudbursts best parts on an instrument, they just dont ring like vocals. ill sample voices and transpose them in different notes and get back to you.
I'm becoming enamored with clusters in piano. Major 2nds just sound magical to me
These chords hurt so good!
Perfectly sums up the exquisite feeling
Such harmonies would work nicely on an organ, especially tuned in some pre-Bachian non-equal temperament (a fact: Handel discouraged equal temperament and never created something like Bach's WTC or Chromatic fantasy - could be because he wrote so much for voice: operas, oratories, anthems etc?).
Instruments are bound by what it called "equal temperament." That is to say, A4 is 440 Hz and all of it's *equally* divisible equivalents.( A220 or A880, are the octaves above and below A4.) for example. All notes are similarly specific and equally spaced. Western Culture bases all it's tuning around these note designations. Nature doesn't work like that though, she doesn't give a shit. What we might identify as an "A" could fall anywhere within a very finite Hz range of pitches. It's like paint shopping at Home Depot. You're gonna find a whole mess of green colors, there is no "one true green." Let's be real, you're gonna go home with something like "Summer Mist" or whatever, because it matches your curtains or furniture. Anyone with synesthesia or any person with perfect pitch will tell you that sound works the same way. Human voices are super flexible in this way though. Because people, singers especially, are super sensitive to pitch (even though we don't think so) we're likely to adjust on a micro-tonal level towards a more "perfect" harmony than is achievable by instruments.
***** There are other instruments that are MORE flexible, sure. But not quite as instantly adjustable. Like, I can bend the strings of my guitar to raise the pitch. Or you could overblow on a wind instrument to get a sharper pitch. But the voice adjusts naturally in that instant.
Go find a strong wind ensemble playing Whitacre or Lauridsen or Grainger or anybody else who likes dissonant intervals. Wind players are taught to aim high on minor thirds, low on major thirds, etc., starting in high school. Instrument makers use equal temperament but good bands sure don't.
So, a trombone choir would possibly be able to achieve a similar effect?
String players aren't bound by equal temperament, though.
@@benthomas9776 Absolutely. Strings too
6 years later, and I still LOVE this video
It's like he completely explained exactly how I felt about those exact chords then and how I still feel about them now
I love clusters :3
I agree with you that your cluster chords work a lot better with voices than on other instruments. Don't know why. As a pianist, I play the piano reductions of your works for fun - but the chords don't work as well on that instrument.
In my opinion, it's just the piano. The piano (to me) simply has no emotion compared to other instruments and is nothing compared to the human voice.
I wonder if it could be due to differences in tuning, e.g. just intonation vs. equal temperament.
It is due to just intonation, good singers naturally locking on the perfectly mathematical harmonic ratios which brings more clarity compared to an equal tempered piano
It’s the intonation
transcription please
Wow! I ve heard this famous especially known for his choral work mentined a lot in the last 7 years . i thought he had been arounf for enerations but NO he's great looking young guy ! I so rarely listen to choral music ! Beyond Messiaen I've heard nothing ! Homework !
Wow! I feel exactly the same way about the cluster, beautiful and painful. I have been in choirs since I was 10. There is no comparison to the beauty of many voices being one. It's God given.
I certainly know what he means, but I like clusters on instruments, just as well.
when you play some of cloudbursts best parts on an instrument, they just dont ring like vocals. ill sample voices and transpose them in different notes and get back to you.