What the Heck Happened to 2D Zelda?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 เม.ย. 2021
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Something weird has been going on with 2D (or "top-down") Zeldas for nearly two decades now. Let's talk about it.
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/ arlostuff
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BOOKFACE: ArloStuff
This video was edited by the lovely Kane!
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Additional footage credits:
docs.google.com/document/d/1y...
"Reloaded Installer #11" by LHS.
/ @lhschiptunes - เกม
![I Solved the Map of EVERY Zelda Game! [Legend of Zelda Theory]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zz3FbQJXIvk/mqdefault.jpg)
Spirit Tracks music was so solid that 12 years later the overworld music still plays in my mind everytime I ride a train or bus
same
amen
Yes, the music was great.
the snow real music always plays in my head when it snows. it fits so damn much. intense, but really pretty too
@Chaos inc. _RIIIIIIIISSSEEEE_
Now Nintendo is going to make a 2D Zelda exclusively controlled by the Ring Fit ring just to mess with you
Weeb
@@BitchChill bruh
@@BitchChill If your going to call Cluesagi a weeb, than that'll mean your also a weeb.
should have made it compatible with origami king
@@kamdenmadan3289 My profile picture isn't from an anime. Even if it was, rules and standards simply don't apply to me
Seeing Arlo not understand the Lorule counterparts really hurt me. I think they're cool concepts with a hero who lacks courage and needs to rely on others, a princess who was foolish enough to trust a conniving villain because she was desperate to save her kingdom, and the fabulous Yuga, who is just perfect with using a bad situation for his own gain. The entire point of Lorule existing is show what could come of Hyrule if the main three stabilizing factors are lost; no wisdom leads to the allowance of corruption, no courage leads to no safety, and no power leads to the destruction of an entire country in the hopes of seizing the lost power from another. ALBW's story is about how the one's who didn't lose their way show those who have how to regain and keep it. That ending cutscene is just so powerful when Link and Zelda restore hope to the fallen kingdom of Lorule. ALBW may not have had a unique overworld, but I feel that it used that to its strength by showing something familiar but telling a story that's totally different.
You are correct. The game was pretty good.
interestingly you can also shift them around
hilda lacks wisdom, but she DOES have power
yuga lacks power, but you can argue he has courage - does he ever show fear ?
ravio lacks courage, he runs away after all, but he happens to be wise too
@@Envy_May it is actually mind blowing how hard they thought about it.
@@Envy_May I think it's also very poetic how they each gained back their trait in the final moments of the game. Ravio most strongly of course, but I think it applies to the other two as well in their own ways. Arlo is entitled to his opinions of course, but I just cannot comprehend how anyone can't just adore this game. It's not just my third favorite zelda game, its my third favorite game of all time. And I've played all 19 games in the series. It blows Link to the Past and Twilight Princess out of the water, beats out Ocarina, and is nearly on par with Wind Waker and Majora. It's so amazingly good. Every second. And the beautiful and poetic story is such an important part of that. To me, It's the most zelda zelda game. It's quintessential
THIS
ALL OF THIS
let me rip off that bandaid for you Arlo: If Nintendo is gonna reuse assets from Link's Awakeing remake, it's most likely gonna be for a Oracles remake.
And knowing Nintendo, they’ll sell them separately and for $60 each
We can hope they are package together. Or are combined in some way.
nah this arlo dude is too nitpicky, even if nintendo did remakes of the oracle games he would still hate them based on the stupid points he makes on this video on how "remake bad cuz no originality" or whatever, personally, i loved ALBW and LA switch, since i had never played the originals, because believe me, they aged very poorly, and i would love if they kept 2d zelda games for top tier remakes such as these
@@wewlad2917 It is his opinion, he doesn't have to like them. I mean I like A Link Between Worlds and the Link's Awakening Remake but I would rather completly original games. Heck, he even said he liked A Link Between Worlds.
To be honest though, if Nintendo released the Oracle Games as a remakes I don't think I would get them. Like I have the originals and while the remakes would probably be better, I wouldn't want to pay £50 for them, especially if they are 2 games instead of 1.
@@TheZebbga the originals aged like poo, a remake would save them, same happened with links awakening, if you like them is purely because of nostalgia, but the truth is old 2d zelda games have aged really bad and remakes actually make them playable
You know, since Capcom developed the Oracle games and Minish Cap, Nintendo hasn't made a Zelda game that scratches Arlo's itch since Link's Awakening. Now that's a different perspective.
@Cyber Console wolf That's also a spin off. Not really what Arlo is getting at in this video. Yeah it's unique, but it's not Zelda. It's Crypt of the Necrodancer with a Zelda skin thrown on top.
@@aaronwishard7093 I would place it more as a Zelda game with crypt gameplay since it keep the zelda overall map an progression
Nintendo actually hired the director from Capcom after the Oracle games and Minish Cap.
Good news and bad news all at once: that man is Hidemaro Fujibayashi, and I'd love for him to direct an original 2D Zelda after BotW II is done.
@@aaronwishard7093 I don’t see how anyone who has actually played it could say this. It’s first and foremost a Zelda game, and the first and only one with a built in randomizer
@@Subatomicfish I played the game... I didn't enjoy it because of the fact I am not a fan of rhythm games. And you say it's a Zelda game 1st and foremost. I say that the Necrodancer spin off is a Necrodancer spin off. It also just so happens to be a Zelda spin off as well. Doesn't mean that it's a Zelda game that Nintendo wants to consider a main series game. Unlike say the Minish Cap, or Phantom Hourglass, or Spirit Tracks, or literally every other Zelda game that's canonical. You don't see us ranting and raving for more games in the Tingle series of games to be made do we? Perhaps it becomes its own series, perhaps it's a 1 off. But it won't be a main line Zelda game for the above stated reasons.
Waiting patiently for that Minish Cap remake.
Heck yeah
Is it necesary though? Minish Cap is beautiful and hasn't aged at all really, I think i'd be better if that development time and cost is used on a new game, or at least a remake of one of the NES games, Idk.....
@@oscarzxn4067 Remakes are almost never necessary, really. It'd just be fun to see a reimagining of the game on modern hardware.
Remake Wind Waker in Minish Cap style
I've been waiting for a decade. I missed out on it the first time and can't get my hands on a copy so I gotta wait.
“When you have to wait 17 years wondering why things won’t go in your direction you have to wonder if they ever will again” - every starfox fan since 64.
And paper Mario fan lol
F-Zero fans can also relate.
@@ManOfUnknownWorth yes!!!
Ey Assault was pretty cool
@@ABemis so underrated
When Arlo mentioned waiting for the next 3ds Zelda, I was legitimately expecting him to say "and we didn't get one." I completely forgot triforce heroes existed, and the lack of feeling anything when watching the trailers for it was exactly how I felt too.
It was revealed at the same E3 that Metroid fans got "Federation Force" as the first new Metroid title in years...2015 was a tough one.
@@Ray_2112 yeah there’s a reason people talk about it being a “the Dark age of Nintendo” because of how 2015/2016 felt to be a Nintendo fan, tho federation force and tri force heroes weren’t included specifically in the videos Scott the woz made about that and those along with AC Amiibo festival, Chibi robo zip lash and Mario tennis ultra smash along with others it wasn’t a great time. A lot of apathy and lack of interest tbh
The thing I mainly remember about Tri Force Heroes was that it reminded me of how I felt the Four Swords games never reached their full potential and that a proper Zelda game where the player controls four Links at once throughout the whole game could be amazing, yet all Nintendo ever thinks to do with the concept is, "Multiple Links = tiny level-based multiplayer game".
Who has time to play Zelda with friends. Zelda is a solo adventure experience at its best.
As an absolute four swords adventures fanboy, I hated it at first but grew to like it
Arlo: Nintendo blessed us with another 2d Zelda
Me: you mean capcom, look it says it right there on the screen. That's what happened to 2d Zelda games: capcom stopped making them
This right here! Was getting a little frustrated as the video went on lol. Arlo's craving for Capcom to make Zelda games again.
@@AdrianToVids I personally think they should let Grezzo make a brand new 2D Zelda (with guidance from the Zelda team, of course). They did a great job with the 3D Zelda remakes, and especially with Link’s Awakening on the Switch.
Link’s awakening was the last 2D Zelda game Nintendo made that fits in his personal taste. A shame too because if capcom could make a Zelda game in R.E engine, it could look amazing.
genuinly curious if arlo even knows this..
And the guy who directed the Capcom Zeldas works on the 3D games now! Hidemaro Fujibayashi was the director for Breath of the Wild and is doing the sequel right now! So it's not like they can put the staff that made the Oracle games and Minish Cap to work on a new 2D Zelda.
Phantom Hourglass just has a special place for me. Being able to draw on maps was the simplest and coolest thing for me. That's mostly because I left the US for a couple years and didn't want anything to happen to my DS. I left it at my parents place. Never beat phantom before I left. When I remembered it after I got back, I booted it up, and had completely forgotten I had left notes everywhere for my future self to pick back up where I left off. That was just pure simple joy
Omg that’s precious
@@rhettmitchell Good news there's an indie game that's based on 2d Zelda called Blossom Tales II: The Minotaur Prince.
Was my first Zelda game and I'll never forget it.
"I watched the reveal of the latest game and felt... nothing."
As a years-long Pokemon fan... I feel you.
same
Look up "Pokemon Legends: Arceus". Seems like an interesting direction for the series to take. I'm curious about how it will turn out.
@@SilentBudgie It went spectacular
@@squidlytv It's alrite but honestly it's nothing Special lol. It doesn't even have a true Open-World like Scarlet/Violet. No wonder it's sold quite a lot less! My main critiques is that Legends Arceus is far too easy (apart from the very end Boss of course): seriously - you just _run away_ now if all your Pokemon are downed?? Lol!!!!! Whaaa?! I'm not a baby Gamefreak - honest!! 😂 And no Abilities is _terrible._ Seriously - what?? Why go _that_ ancient?!
@netweed09 It's to build a framework upon which to build this series from. You don't need abilities.
The lose condition in this game is if you die not if you lose your mons.
I love how "Noah" is just the regular puppet with different clothes when getting different puppet for a different character would have been more convincing. It's like Arlo is really selling the picture that the puppet IS the one running the channel, since making a new character just by wearing different clothes is a thing TH-camrs do.
Puppet..? What do you mean?
What do you mean by puppet? Arlo is a furry blue monster and yes he IS the one running the channel :)
You should watch it when calling monsters "puppets". I know it seems innocent but its honestly a slur that they don't take kindly and its just their good nature that they dont act like they're offended by it.
I know you didn't mean anythint rude by it, you probably don't know that many monsters irl, but its best not to call them "puppets" anymore.
“Arlo the Redditor doesn’t exist, he can’t hurt you”
Arlo the Redditor:
@Nebula3lem123 💪🥷🏿👌
What do you mean???
@@bartowo 💪🤤👌
What even is a reditor?
@@nickk3077 It sort of depends, usually it refers to people who use Reddit (the social media website) in general, but it can also be used to specifically refer to people who regularly post to Reddit (like how youtubers are people who regularly post to youtube). Usually it has the negative connotation of "neckbeards" who wear fedoras and say "milady", or who use super advanced words nobody knows to sound smart whether or not they actually are, but it doesn't necessarily mean something negative- just usually
Spirit Tracks is such a criminally underrated game that it makes me want to write up my own 5-paragraph persuasive essay.
I would honestly read that.
I'll watch a walkthrough like if chuggaconroy did it. Or is that not enough?
Subscribed to your channel. Just in case you actually release a video essay. :D
I liked Phantom Hourglass, too. Rigorous note-taking on the map and finding new shortcuts in the Ocean King Temple really alleviated a lot of the hassle with doing the temple over and over again.
I’ve played it and IMO I think it’s the worst game in the entire series
The dark world is literally the sacred realm but with ganon’s influence. Lorule is a parallel world to Hyrule. It always existed along side Hyrule, but we didn’t know that yet until A Link Between Worlds.
I would rather kept the Dark World instead of Lorule. I find hard to swallow the fact that the Dark World and Lorule just casually have THE SAME MAP AND LOOKS. What a coincidence that two absolutely not related places are almost the same!
@@geminisfl And same background music, which actively made me go from loving the game to cementing to ok to now disliking, because it can't decide on being a remake or a sequel.
@@amandaslough125 yeah, i get that. I didn’t like how it just copy pasted elements from alttp instead of making a real sequel but with the same feel of alttp. I liked the new lore and original ideas a lot, and they should have leaned more into that.
It’s because ALBW is a spiritual successor. A way for people to experience nostalgia & a new story at the same time.
@@sasook Again. Can't decide on being a remake or a sequel. Harms the game because of it.
And story wise, I rather get full Lorule lore and replay Four Swords Adventures for a better "save the sages/maidens" story. LBW just tries to repeat the "your friends become sages" angle like but worse than OoT.
I'm a DS kid and I get what you are saying about Spirit Tracks. But ho man that game gives me massive nostalgia, and I will forever love it.
"You can't make a song that is a reversed version of another song be good!"
Lorule Castle: *"Ok... My turn..."*
Majora's Mask reversed Saria's Song with the Song of Healing.
Ballad of the Goddess and Zelda's Lullaby would like to have a word.
Stone Tower Temple would like to know your location
@@jenniferchough Considering I walked down the isle to Ballad of the Goddess, I would argue the "Reverse song" is actually better than the original
Song of storms too is crying. Because was never used...
I really wish they would release remasters of the DS Zelda games with more traditional controls. Switch would actually be perfect for this because you could still utilize the touch screen for certain aspects
The only path for a ds zelda remake should be more of a reimagining of the originals since so many of the mechanics and puzzles in the games rely so heavily on ds gimmicks like the microphone, the touch screen for note taking and drawing special symbols, and theres that one puzzle in PH that requires you to close the ds lol. I think a lot of the game would have to be changed entirely just to work properly on the switch, I don’t think many aspects of the games would translate well in a traditional port/remake using pointer controls or even using the switch’s touch screen. Besides, going the touchscreen route would mean that the games can only be played in handheld mode.. could be wrong tho!
@@maxmontiel2975 That would be kind of hard to do precisely...
And pay 80$ a game like they did for links awakening? Just imagine yourself a minute buying Spirit Tracks HD Remake for 80$. Do you feel thev pain? Spoilers: it will not make the game better.
But what about those of us who play in docked mode?
I wish Johnny 2 Cellos and Arlo would hang out with me
I miss 2D Zelda.
Me too.
I'm sad you didn't like Lorule. I really enjoyed it. I liked it's characters and it made me excited to think of what other characters' Lorule counterparts might be like. I loved the imaginative adventures it sent me on.
Someone giving Minish Cap the credit it deserves
That is beautiful, someone giving it the love it deserves.
I played it on a web emulator up till the final dungeon but then I lost my save file :(
@JMtheEliteFan dude...your favorites are the same as mine. That’s awesome.
@Cyber Console wolf dunno if voice acting would fit very well
@JMtheEliteFan no it’s a good game but it’s not twilight princess good, the story is linear compared to the likes of majoras mask etc
@JMtheEliteFan Yes if your in to 3D Zelda and liked twilight princess I would recommend ocarina of time, wind waker and skyward sword. If you want a good 2d Zelda/camera down perspective Zelda to play I recommend spirit tracks, links awakening and the oracle games. (Btw I don’t hate minish cap I actually 100%’d it recently and I only 100% games that I enjoy)
Don’t forget, Link Between Worlds started off as a remake of Link to the Past. That’s why it’s so similar.
Ohhh that makes so much sense!
pretty much and i loved it, Link of the Past still my favorite Zelda game, Link Between World was so great to play because of the feels, plus this was first zelda that stopped holding your hand in dungeons you had freedom to bring in any weapons you want, i wish all zelda's did this
To be fair it would be rather difficult to do a 1-1 remake of such an old game in 3-d. Probably just remaking the overworld was as much work without the freedom that making a new overworld would have taken on top of ALTTP being sort of linear in parts before opening up and closing back up and had many inventory items that pretty much functioned as glorified keys on top of the magic mirror would be far more difficult to implement in a 2.5d engine.
It is actually exceptionally easy to remix a 2D zelda map though, to be fair.
Like trivially easy in game dev terms. They could have moved a bunch of stuff around and build some new layouts with the same assets and nobody would have known it was ever supposed to be a remake of LttP, and it easily would have taken about as much if not less time to do than Lorule, so I think his complaint of it being a problem for him is still valid.
That's what I was actually most happy about ALBW, that it WASN'T a complete remake of ALTTP. The original is still great and I'm glad they decided to put in a lot of new stuff instead, yet of course being familiar through the similarities. Still, I would have prefered all those new ideas in a completely new Hyrule/overworld.
It sounds like you definitely miss the Capcom era of 2D Zelda’s. And so do I. I am going through the minish cap for the first time since I was 10 and it’s absolutely wonderful
'The mechanics were fresh and fun"
procedes to show a clip of the infuriously hard goron dance
The Goron dance isn't hard. If you account for any input lag by, for example, muting the game after the instruction you're supposed to repeat (so you're not thrown off by the sounds and your timing is messed up), it's actually really easy; you just have to have decent timing.
2023 News: Local Puppet overdoses on cookies after finding out that the next 2D Zelda will require players to dock and undock their switch to Switch between Hyrule and The Darker World
Switch Lite users: ...
Pretty sure that Minish Cap and the Oracles games were developed by Capcom on Nintendo's behalf.
Indeed
This is true. It's advertised when the game boots up. But in the defense of Arlo, those games were still supervised under the care of its seasoned veterans. Just look at it as quality control in which the 3rd party developer would have to meet certain standards to even be considered canon since most timelines includes those games.
@@Phostings1 I didn't mean it as a negative comment on the video. Letting Capcom make the games under their(Nintendo) supervision is probably how so many Zelda games were released in a relatively short period. Wish they'd do that again.
@@OdaManjiro I didn't see your comment as a rebuttal against Arlos'. It's all good,lol. But yes, it is true that Nintendo can manage their resources better if another talent steps in and create it for them. It saves the company time and money.
Also 4 swords and 4 swords adventures...
Series Arlo wants back:
Pinkmin
"Traditional" Paper Mario
And now "Traditional" 2D Zelda.
Also another 3d Metroid
It felt really wierd hearing my name (Noah) when he randomly chose it for the new character at the beginning.
While I liked Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks a good amount, I think that's because I played those games when I was super young, so they just naturally instilled themselves into my life. Then, flash forward to Triforce Heroes, and it's the first mainline Zelda game I just... didn't buy. Totally echoing your apathy for Phantom Hourglass when that happened.
And overall, yeah. Exactly. I've been saying this, too, but 2D Zelda has been getting treated DIRTY lately. Minish Cap was god tier, one of my favorite things. ALttP too. I was late into playing Link's Awakening and the Oracle games but they instantly hooked me (especially Link's Awakening). But everything after that was just either "good" or... forgettable. I bought the Link's Awakening remake and only played for a few minutes. It just didn't hook me enough. It was, after all... just a remake
I dunno man, I feel like Minish Cap was just perfect, wasn't it? Same world, but new lore, new baddie, new characters, but the same general style that we all know and love from Zelda. Similar enough to fit in the series, different enough to warrant playing. They had the chops to make something that incredible, I almost have to wonder... where did it all go?
Though, at the same time, the biggest issues with Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks, for you, were their controls and graphics, which I totally understand. Those weren't... THAT long ago... Perhaps, if we get something akin to those games, but with better graphics, and controls fit for the Switch (like ALBW), then maybe we've got something on our hands!
Regardless, I'm still hopeful, but also just a BIT worn out. Zelda's my favorite series in the world, so not being able to really sink my teeth into a traditional, new Zelda game since Skyward Sword just kinda bums me out
Love you btw
I love your vids. Your really cool!
Way to waste your money. 🤣
$60 for a few minutes?
🤣🤣🤣
I’d worry if they tried to remake/port the DS Zeldas for Switch. We’ve already seen how well using the gyro for the Wii pointer goes... imagine having to use the gyro to emulate a *touchscreen* ? Since, even if they reworked the movement and the sword slashes to be button based, they can’t do the same with some items like the boomerang, which in that game require the more precise touch controls.
@@SuperPaperPokemon i mean, the switch is a touchscreen....
The thing that hooked me most with minish cap was the variety in items and new mechanics.
Is was such a HUGE missed opportunity that they didn’t use ALBW’s engine to make another full Zelda game and just made Triforce Heroes, which isn’t bad, but nothing nearly as special.
It’s fun, but it definitely feels more of an entertaining spin-off than a main series game.
@@swimmyswim417 Yeah, every Zelda game is fun, but it could have been much more.
Personally, I think the even bigger missed opportunity was that they didn't take the single-player gameplay of Four Swords Adventures and build a proper 2D Zelda game (with a cohesive world and everything) out of playing as four Links at once.
Arlo: "I wish they would continue more story lines and show us events after a game in a sequel"
*Gets to link between worlds*
Arlo: "its basically links awakening and i don't like how it is similar and relatable" XD
He doesn't like that it's the same map re-used
Coming in late to the comments on this one, but fear not! If we’re getting a NEW 2D Metroid in 2021, there is still hope for a new 2D Zelda.
The Oracle games were amazing, yet I barely hear anyone talk about them. I'm glad someone brought them up again.
They’re easily 2 of my favorite Zelda games
I find them just fine. Swapping between items is painful, dungeons are ok and plot is not very memorable.
I personally found them the least good games in the entire series, but there's cerrtainly potential for a remake to make them awesome.
@@Dairunt1 Or why not just take the Link's Awakening route and go the full on 2 remakes and make another 1 to make the unfinished ideas of that 3rd game.
@@aaronwishard7093 Really hoping they go this route 🤞🏾
The Link's Awakening style makes much more sense if you look at the Japanese ads for the GameBoy original: they used marionettes in a sort of Star Foxy way that looked exactly like the remake.
Did not know this. I bet that was a awesome choice from that perspective
@@MixMasterLar they had some print ads in this same campaign, but check it out: th-cam.com/video/VWQxToJyGoA/w-d-xo.html
It's 2023 and I just played Minish Cap this week. I was not able to during the initial release in 2005. Life! But when I played it. I LOVED MINISH CAP more than any other 2D Zelda Game. This style of pixel art looks so good. I will miss this type of experience.
The reuse of the map in link between worlds very very well done, because having a remixed Hyrule like in all other games is not original anymore, but to have the same map but after a long time that is the same but also totally different like it was in lbw was very original to me.
Noah is actually a puppet being controlled by Arlo. You can clearly see the strings
I‘m sure a lot of you saw me and thought there might be news about the next 2D-style Zelda adventure. Unfortunately, we don’t have anything to share right now. We apologize.
Cadence didn't really feel like a Zelda to me, what with the randomized map and the focus on combat over puzzles. I kind of just wished I was playing regular Crypt of the Necrodancer
Understandable, have a great day ✌
I’d really love to see the original Zelda and the Oracle games remade in the new Link’s Awakening style.
Not only are you not alone, but you've articulated the thoughts of hardcore 2D Zelda fans almost perfectly.
26 minutes and you never realized it was capcom that made your childhood games.
Yeah I'm getting the vibe from this video that Arlo just really loves the Capcom 2D Zeldas. Which is fine, those games are awesome, but that may be the fix he's missing
Was hoping someone would point this out so I didn't have to
Capcom made like half of them. The 1st game and Link to the Past are straight up 1st party Nintendo games.
Man, where does Arlo buy his soap? It makes his fur look great AND the box it came in has been strong enough to support him for so many years now!
Comment of the day :>
Arlo: "I love asset recycling games"
Also Arlo: "I don't want a recycled game"
There's a difference between making new things with old assets and remaking old things with new assets
@Joshua White And yet the third category, making new things with new assets designed to look like old assets... but in 3D instead of sprites, like "The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds" that would be really cool, right? That would be right up his alley. He'd have to be a huge hypocrite to dislike that game... "Well, I've seen this overworld before... stupid nostalgia pandering." It's his fault the Terraformers upend the kingdom every few centuries and throw mountains and lakes around to make Hyrule unrecognizable and fuck up the lore, just so he doesn't get a nostalgic feeling from looking at the map. I mean, it's Eiji Aonuma's fault, obviously, but it's Arlo and the players like him who encourage and enable him!
@@Wendy_O._Koopa damn, he said he liked the game. Chill. It's not unreasonable to want to see a new 2d title.
To be clear, I would love a third Oracle game, or rather Oracle-styled game where Link travels to a new land... like Hytopia! Except, you know... make it an actual Zelda game, not that 4 swords-ish nonsense. But, since they aren't doing that, and they instead seem to be 'married' to the idea of using Hyrule; could they just pretend to care a little bit? Do you honestly think it's more exciting if the mountains from the East are on the West now? Or if a lake and forest switch places? That doesn't make any difference gameplay-wise, the only reason you'd change it is to piss off long-standing fans who you've deemed have developed Stockholm's Syndrome by now and will buy anything, in hopes of attracting new casual players who actively hate the older players... or something. I haven't really figured that part out yet, because that's such a crapshoot... it seems like it would be infinitely easier not to shoot yourself in the foot, and just not go out of your way to piss off the older fanbase.
That, or simply have Link travel to new lands, y'know... either or.
While this is kind of a funny comparison, it doesn’t really take into account the context. I think the more accurate term that describes asset reusing sequels would be “engine reusing” sequels, since that’s what’s being reused. New assets are still being made for those games.
I haven’t played Link’s Awakening, but recreating the overworld (an asset) to be nearly identical to an old game is not the same as engine-reusing sequels creating new assets like Galaxy 2 or Planet Robobot.
we’re with you Arlo. I actually love 2D Zelda even more than 3D. But I wouldn’t be shocked if the next 2D game is only an Oracle remake (hopefully with a new 3rd Farore route included).
I'm from the future and Noah the vaguely hipstery art guy has become the most popular character in the Arloverse and has his own spinoff channel
All hail Jim Pickens
Arloverse 😂🤣😂🤣
indeed
I can also confirm this. Him and Zane also have a thriving Let's Play channel together.
Is he in Smash?
Imagine if Nintendo released a remake of Phantom Hourglass using the engine of Link's Awakening Remake. Arlo would flip out in a rampage.
If I heard correctly, Arlo didn't like the remakes. If Phantom Hourglass did get the same treatment of Link's Awakening, the details wouldn't be enough to sway Arlo opinion since he didn't give enough of pros for the phantom hourglass or spirit tracks. Alro wants to go back to form of what makes a 2D zelda game a zelda game. It worked with dragon quest regarding how popular that game is in japan and how not much it has changed over its many iterations of the numbered series.
Only if it plays a lot more fast and loose with the original compared to Link’s Awakening. It’d need to ditch the control scheme and any design related to them (barring maybe touch/motion controls for edge cases that benefit like the boomerang), add quality of life improvements to the Temple of the Ocean King, majorly rework large portions of the limited soundtrack, and completely overhaul the graphics. But at that point, you might as well either just make a brand new Zelda, or wholly remake the story of Phantom Hourglass in a whole new engine with gameplay borrowed from Wind Waker as a return to form for older-style 3D Zelda.
@@jaredhamilton8694 Good news there's an indie game that's based on 2d Zelda called Blossom Tales II: The Minotaur Prince.
I often think that I'm the only person on the planet that actually likes the touch screen controls. In fact, I freaking love them! I wouldn't say I like them better than traditional controls, I just think it's clever and different. I also loved making my ship sail in the shape of whatever stupid doodle I decided to draw in Phantom Hourglass. 😂
Spirit Tracks was my first Zelda game. I can see the flaws, but it's still very special for me.
Dude I feel that. Spirit Tracks was my first game too! :D
Not gonna lie, Link Between Worlds is my favorite 2D Zelda and I'm not sorry
idk if i like minish cap or alttp more , also those were the only games in the series i beat
When they announced the links awakening remaster/remake my first thought was that they need to do something similar for ages/seasons
They most likely will. Get hyped!
But Nintendo need Capcom ‘s permission
It would be a crime if they didn't.
@@CDRiley I don't think so since Nintendo owns the IP, I don't think Capcom retained any rights to the contents of the Oracle games (also the director of the Oracle games left Capcom to work at Nintendo after Minish Cap, the dude is the director on the Breath of the Wild games). As interesting as it'd be to see a Zelda game on the RE Engine I'm pretty sure it'd more likely Oracle remakes would be handled by Grezzo and run on the same engine as Link's Awakening.
Man that remake was such a let down
Arlo is an alien that lives in a family's attic and keeps dressing up as characters with different personality's for fun
Looks like a Roger too
The links awakening remake was fantastic and the art style was gorgeous. To be fair most of it was a new experience because when it came out back in 93 I was too dumb to figure out the puzzles being too young.
Man just seeing this gameplay, it really shows that minish cap is the ultimate refinement of zelda pixel art. Gorgeous
Personally I'd say the logical next step for 2d zelda graphics wise was four swords adventures
@@amimm7776 Good news there's an indie game that's based on 2d Zelda called Blossom Tales II: The Minotaur Prince.
Good news there's an indie game that's based on 2d Zelda called Blossom Tales II: The Minotaur Prince.
The main problem is that these games are so few and far between yet when they release one, it's with either a central gimmick that honestly gets in the way of the fun or they have been very derivative of a past title in a way that hurts the game as a whole. Link Between World's commitment to LTTP callbacks actually holds that game back a little. Just enough from being a top-tier title. It's in the shadow of LTTP a bit too much. It's like a way less problematic version of the issues the Star Fox series has had since SF64.
I dont see that at all albw is the best game in the series and the other games don't even come close.
@@LuigiXHero amen
How is ALBW held back? Very vague
Yeah I don't agree either, it's fundamentally a sequel, of course it's gonna have callbacks. That doesn't weaken the game at all for me.
I disagree personally
You basically outlined my exact feelings! Goodness! I started with OoT, loved MM, started playing the 2D games and fell in absolute love with them. I adore Minish Cap, The Oracle games, and Link's Awakening (probably was my favorite for a good number of years). I ADORE Wind waker and was excited for the 2DS Zelda games but... I didn't 'love' them. It took me forever to really get into them and enjoy them. I was kind of excited about Link Between Worlds but again... it was a remake to me. And I never played Triforce Heroes. I enjoyed the GC 4 swords, though. It was ok. In the 2D department I actually wouldn't mind if they did something special as a new switch game.... a remake in a sense, but with a twist. I'd LOVE if they made the Oracle of Secrets game (and then release it with the Oracle of Ages and Seasons... they could even use the Links Awakening graphics for the switch and I'd love it so much). I LOVE those games (I miss the Subrosians... so cute). And it would mean a whole new game while adding the remake of the other two and I would totally pay full price for that (I still have my Gameboy games... I love my gamecube 'gameboy player' so I can play these on my tv and my kids get to watch. I need to play these two again. It's been years).
I really enjoyed this video. Thanks for giving us your opinions on Zelda games like this. It's so real.
I've actually had an idea for a Zelda story for a couple years now that I think would fit the 2D style very well!
A game with some new antagonist like Vaati from Four Swords and Manish Cap. They're a person or creature that affects and lives off of dreams, so they attempt to put the entire Kingdom to sleep for eternity. Whatever power, item or companion thats the selling point Macguffin helps Link stay awake. Then each of the villains minions are located in important NPCs dream worlds, which would be each dungeon.
A setting that gives us a new villain, and will be able to create some wild dungeons since they exist in dreams and aren't limited to normal landscapes you usually see in Hyrule, I would love a concept like this for a new 2D Zelda!
I could never put my finger on why I didn't like A Link Between Worlds all that much despite being SO well regarded, I always thought it was just "neat". But you might've just explained the exact reason why I felt the way I did about it.
Spirit tracks is honestly still one of my favorites.
Yeah the DS games hold a certain nastolgia that only kids who grew up with the game could understand. At least for me. Phantom hourglass was my first LOZ game and only recently I finished Spirit tracks and I could tell the difference. I hold the Arlo perspective on spirit tracks but I still love Phantom Hourglass. Weird how much six or seven years differenciates perspectives on two games that hold the same audience and gimmicks.
I emulated it and played it with a broken rubber stylus and the touch controls worked fine. I have no idea how touch controls can bring down the gaming experience THAT much for people??
Yeah same here. It's honestly pretty discouraging knowing we'll never get a new game in that style; it's too weird for older Zelda fans (even people starting at Ocarina like Arlo) to like, and too new to develop a fanbase of its own at this point.
@@birdcar7808 I didn't think the controls were that bad either. Never had a problem with getting them to work I just prefer the old controls. I dislike Phantom hourglass more for the simplistic puzzles and dungeons, Ocean temple, and the look of the game. Still a fun game though. I feel spirit tracks improved on the formula a lot.
Spirit Tracks would be a great game if they hadn't included the pan flute, imo. It just flat-out didn't work. I managed to beat the game after HOURS of trying to get the DS microphone to pick up my breath, but the thought of that panflute has killed any desire for me to replay the game. Unbelievable that they didn't include a non-microphone way to play it.
I love the DS games, Phantom Hourglass is my favorite of them. I enjoyed A Link between worlds, too. I don't think the game is unoriginal. The whole point was to make a familiar Zelda game and shake the traditional formula up with the non-linear progression. The controls feel to good with the analog movement and the fast travel make the game so much more enjoyable to explore. Yeah, the story is nothing special, but most Zelda stories aren't special either. Breath of the Wild, for example, has a weak story and no one complains about
With my 2 brothers we had an amazing time with triforce hero’s, I loved that game to death!!
I really wished to be able to play that game with friends back when it came out. Glad that you got the chance to experience it!
@@maxmuster5645 I recommend SpiritSphere DX, it's air hockey with a Zelda theme.
Arlo: The [Oracle Zelda's] mechanics were fresh and fun.
The Video: Showing a clip of the Goron Dance event.
I thought that minigame was fun.
The Goron dance really stressed me out back in the day so I think know what you mean haha. I grew to really like it later on though. Man... now I really want to replay the oracle games...
That Goron Dance minigame should get it's own spin-off. Could be Nintendo's own "Just Dance".
I actually adore the art style of Links’s Awakening Remake, and hope more 2D classic Zelda games follow for the new players like me.
Great video - good return to form, mate! I actually would love to see a remake for the Ages and Seasons games...
DS Kid reporting in, Phantom Hourglass was my first ever Zelda and I enjoyed the hell out of it! It started my love for Zelda, and I was Hyped for spirt tracks as well. Zelda being with you the whole adventure is somthing I wish we could have again!
well they were gonna do a remake of link to the past, like 1-to-1, but it spun out into a new project, being a link between worlds. as far as i'm concerned, we're lucky
Spirt tracks is my guilty pleasure. The music is on point, and i did like some of the dungeons. The final boss was pretty neat to, and hey Gannon train. Plus it was the first time we see zelda actually helping out.
Wait why guilty pleasure? Game is legitimately great
Would love to see the Oracle games remade using the Switch Link's Awakening's assets PLUS a new third Oracle game (and thus fulfill their original vision)
I’ve been a Zelda fan since the beginning. One thing I realized while watching this video was that there were clips from Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks in your video and I could not recall them. For whatever reason those games did not stick with me. But seeing clips of aLttP and the original Links Awakening or Ages/Seasons, I was thrown into a nostalgic head over heels mode. Those games were so good. I liked A Link Between Worlds and enjoyed the Lorule/Hyrule parts. As a kid I created a Lower Hyrule in my drawings and writings in middle school. Damn I wish I would have sent that into Nintendo.
Now let’s wait for Nintendo to make another 2D title right after, aging this video like milk.
Arlo is aware of his power. This is all calculated.
With over 7 purchasable DLCs along with some paid Online services for a new Deathmatch mode because why not?
It's gonna happen of that Zelda Direct that Nintendo is waiting for everyone to have given up on before hosting
Surprised you didn’t bring up how Nintendo considered making Twilight Princess top down until they decided they’d also be doing a Wii version and didn’t think the motion controls would work as well.
It’s been a while since you put this video out but I seriously implore you to play through Zelda 1. That game has seriously aged like fine wine. I mentioned to a friend of mine at the beginning of the pandemic that I’d never played through it and he suggested I give it a go by myself, lights off, in the dark (with the only guide being a google image of the location of the dungeons lol). It was an ethereal experience, and even playing 10-15 other Zelda’s it it has unquestionably landed in my top 3.
It hasn’t, it’s way too hard.
So two years later, the Switch is about to enter its final one or two years and still no mention of Oracle remakes, despite having the whole framework wit Links Awakening...
Dude I LOVE Spirit Tracks! Especially the music, puzzles, and how prominent of a role Zelda had in the story. Seriously, making her ghost the companion character was genius.
Love Minish Cap too. ALBW as well, but I never played ALttP, so that might be why.
I feel like people applaud zelda alttp too much
Phantom Hourglass is criminally underrated! That game introduced several neat and interesting mechanics that we haven’t seen in a Zelda game at the time and still haven’t in some ways to this day!
I also loved the sense of exploration in that game! In several ways it even rivals Wind Waker, with EVERY island being extremely memorable and meaningful! And also Linebeck was one of the funniest companions Link has ever had.
I love phantom hourglass so much, my only flaw with it personally is ToTOK, but by the end of the game i got used to it
@@AcidArrestB I liked it! In some sense, it’s near the same reason I love Pikmin! You return to it each time, getting a better understanding of the layout and more tools over time and it’s super satisfying to eventually conquer it! It had some extremely cleaver puzzles too, some involving the map drawing mechanic that I really love and one that breaks the fourth wall!
it's not really underrated, it's really considered a masterpiece and a must have for ds. it's the first time in 15 years that I heard someone(arlo) that didn't like the game and the touch controls.
It sucked.
On the topic of how bloomin' _gorgeous_ The Minish Cap is, I really think Nintendo should dip into more pixel art and sprite-based games. Super Mario Maker comes to mind, but that game largely just reused sprites from older games for the sake of nostalgia.
I would love to see a brand new game in that kind of style. There's been a ton of great stuff in the indie scene over the past few decades, so I'd be really interested to see how a full-scale big-budget Nintendo team would handle such a task.
This man's feeling watching the Spirit Tracks trailer was me watching sword and shield
I was excited until Dexit. It just kinda went downhill from there.
I was very happy with Link Between Worlds & Link's Awakening. I really hope they use that same new LA engine on remakes of Oracle of Ages/Seasons! I'm totally down for that.
And here I am, wanting to play the HD Ocarina of Time and Majora’s Mask games on Switch.
I'm with you
Same.
Absolutely
Phantom hourglass is such a divisive game, I loved that thing when I was growing up, I will have to replay it to see if it holds up lol
i also loved it, but it didn’t hold up for me at all. got bored really fast. i really enjoyed replaying spirit tracks though.
@@spoon7053 Good news there's an indie game that's based on 2d Zelda called Blossom Tales II: The Minotaur Prince.
You are not alone. I've been filling the void with the randomizers: A Link to the Past Randomizer and Zelda 1 Randomizer. They are a lot of fun and while not new games, doing something like shuffling all the item locations really makes you think about how to tackle old puzzles in a new way every time. The options are customizable based on your skill level. There is a whole community of people that even have organized Zelda Randomizer tournaments.
If Arlo ever wanted to make a "Shadow Link" character of himself, it should be a red monster named Loar, pronounced "Low-Ar'
or, by a link between worlds method: Arhy (pronounced as Ar-Hi)
Or have it be Olra
Oracle's and Minish Cap were Developed with Capcom... Nintendo Left behind brand new 2d Zelda on Gameboy.
:(
I wish I cared more about 2D Zelda, but honestly the fell flat for the most part for me. My first ever game was OOT, and while I played a lot of the NES game as well, it never felt as good as OOT.
Largely 2D zeldas bore me I think because they don't change much. The puzzles that they do kinda all feel the same. Whether that's drop something from a higher floor in a dungeon, require a grapple to cross a river you can't walk through, or whatnot. I think there's something about 3D and NOT constantly being able to see everything at all times that excites me in some way. Maybe it's that "feel" you're talking about.
I'm the polar opposite for the DS game though. I loved them. The touch control seemed to fix a lot of the combat issues I had with 2D because everything was accessible quickly and easily, without a need to pause usually. While you were limited to one action at a time, you were able to swap so seamlessly that it felt good to me. Art was pretty ugly, but that's because they really wanted to capitalize on Toon link.
I do love spirit tracks and phantom hourglass. I don’t mind the controls at all and I’ve never seen the problem with them. Yes I would prefer traditional controls, but I was always able to control it perfectly. Phantom hourglass and Spirit tracks have wonderful personality and the boat/train on both are fun methods of transportation and exploration. And with the world and characters with all the side stuff you can do, I love those versions of hyrule.
Anyone else want another 2D Zelda like Zelda 1 again? One where it was completely open and every secret found was helpful and occasionally really surprising. One where there is no guide whatsoever ever to help you through the game.
Honestly no
Yes, definitely. Zelda 1 is my second favorite Zelda game including the 3D ones. Exploration is just so rewarding.
@@BloodyMastersword YEAH! I am in love with that game and its sense of exploration! We NEED a sequel, and although BotW was an amazing game, it didn’t scratch that same exploration itch because there were several markers telling me where to go. It didn’t ruin my experience of exploration and finding things for myself, but soured it a bit.
@@nickk3077 Breath of the Wild came very close for me but I would love an even more open experience.
If you want a game that's very open and exploration heavy I can recommend Outer Wilds. I completed it today and enjoyed it a lot. It's like a combination of Zelda 1 and Majora's Mask but in space.
Add in some monstrous dungeons like in the Gameboy Zeldas and I'm in.
I loved Link Between Worlds, the nostalgia was huge and the game was great.
Exactly, nostalgia should not be a dirty word. It can be and usually is used poorly especially Hollywood, but it's powerful and emotional. Nostalgia correctly used is amazing, and I think A Link Between Worlds nailed it.
I love this game and it was my first Zelda game, but I feel like it could be better. and fully embrace its sense of exploration Maybe the items could be scattered around the world and there would be some cryptic riddles on how to find them, just like in Zelda 1! The map also didn't need to reveal all dungeon locations, that ruins the surprise of finding them all out on your own a bit.
I'm someone who had no nostalgia for A Link to the Past, though I do still like it, and I think albw is the best 2d Zelda almost hands downs. The controls are so ridiculously polished that it feels satisfying to just run around in, and I replayed it so much I started making up my own challenges like beating master mode without using healing potions/ fairies.
Arlo didn't deny what you're saying, but wanting something completely new is understandable too. I felt pretty much the same as him, great game, nice kinda-remake of ALTTP, but so much was already familiar. One of the key aspects of Zelda is exploration...and if you already know the whole overworld more or less...it's not AS exciting as if you don't.
@@nickk3077 Good news there's an indie game that's based on 2d Zelda called Blossom Tales II: The Minotaur Prince.
I'm a newcomer to Zelda, having only played BOTW, Links Awakening, and Skyward Sword. I've loved every zelda game I've played, but Links Awakening gave me a sense of childhood adventure that the other games didn't. I'd love there to be some more 2d stuff in the future. Hopefully with Tears of the Kingdom coming out soon, we might start hearing about a new 2d project.
Waiting for the Spirit Tracks Remake!
Spirit Tracks is unironically my favorite Zelda game
More power to you, bro.
Same!
Me too. I’m definitely not going to say it’s the best but it’s my favorite
I’m still waiting for a proper follow-up to the greatest Zelda ever: “The Adventure of Link”!
right? give us a remakequel that uses more of a Smash Bros feel, with double-jumps, good aerial control, and edge-grabbing.. god, Smash Link is so fun to use it's a massive tragedy that those games stopped making platformer environments for you to run through at all. just pure fights.
@@maxmontiel2975 I've only been saying it for decades.. smash link was directly based on that game, except... _good._ like handles well. and smash also made some of the most satisfying action platforming in a long time.
that said, if the levels are an exact remake of the original it's going to be pretty dull, both visually and gameplaywise.
@@KairuHakubi I'd really like a remake/sequel like that! There is potential in that game, but from today's point of view it's really not that nice to play.
I don't know if this would interest you, but I made a spiritual sequel to Zelda II. You are more than welcome to give it a try :D
@@Silbotronic Looks awesome; I’m definitely going to give it a shot!
I didn’t realize I felt this way about 2D Zelda games until seeing you talk about it. I loved ALBW personally, and it’s my favorite 2D Zelda, followed by Minish Cap and Links Awakening VERY closely behind. I think my enjoyment from ALBW came from the fact that I didn’t much care for LttP and I didn’t even get close to finishing it, so a lot of ALBW felt new to me, despite the fact it wasn’t, but I understand how something like your experience with LttP could affect your views on ALBW. Great video man!
The thing about A Link Between Worlds rehashing the ALttP map is because it initially was going to be a ALttP remake for the 3DS.
I still remember reading about it in a gaming magazine.
Still waiting for that Zelda 35th anniversary announcement Nintendo besides Skyward Sword HD.
Nintendo did their Mario Direct only 7 months ago. I’m willing to bet that they will drop a Zelda Direct somewhere around the 1 year mark.
It will likely be an E3 thing. They don't want to detract from the "hype" of Skyward Sword HD, though I've really only seen that game get negative attention (mainly for the price) and very little positive ones.
My guess they will announce it’s as 50th anniversary around June 2036
The very least I'm expecting is we'll get a double pack release of Wind Waker HD and Twilight Princess HD on the Switch for the fall. Ideally I'd like a "Zelda Collection" to also include Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, but I feel just bringing the HD remasters of the Gamecube games from the Wii U to the Switch will be enough for some people (especially anyone who didn't own a Wii U, which is a lot given the system flopped).
@@krimsonkatt the negative attention is obviously a lot because haters are the loudest. There are a LOT of people excited for SS, but I doubt they'll show a Zelda anniversary in e3, cause like you said they don't want to detract the hype from SS with e3 being before it
If you can get past the touch controls, Spirt Tracks is a really solid zelda.
That's the problem: Arlo CAN'T get past the touch controls. In fact, it seems he can't get past most gimmick-based games.
For me the problem wasn't the touch controls, but the pan flute. You flat out can't beat the game if your DS microphone didn't want to cooperate. Maybe with an emulator it's doable, but my 3DS and normal DS both struggled to open the Sand Temple. Literal hours spent across 2 systems trying to get one necessary song to play and it just wouldn't work.
@@greywillowgaming2366 I don’t get what the big deal is with the touch controls. Maybe it’s because Spirit tracks was my first zelda, but to me, they a) work completely fine and b) aren’t just a random thing shoehorned in. And i didn’t find normal zelda controls weird after my experience with touch controls, it was just another way to play a video game.
the whole game is based around touch. the game wouldn’t be any better with button controls. items felt so much more precise when you could decide exactly where they wanted to go. If the touch controls were garbage like the pan flute, then yeah, it’s understandable to hate em. But at some point you have to consider, is it actually a cheap gimmick or your stubbornness to consider different mechanics?
I see the charm of it I could never really get past the touch controls
I guess I am one of the few that didnt finish minish cap because I couldnt stand being able to only use 2 itens at a time. It felt like I spent more time swapping itens on the pause menu than actually playing
If that's what turned you off Minish Cap, one friendly advise: do NOT touch the original Link's Awakening.
I’m still very impressed with my self for beating Veran in Oracle of ages when I was like 11 or something.
I’ve rarely got very stuck on a 3-D game, but damn the 2-D dungeons are DIFFICULT puzzles
As someone who had not played ALTTP, ALBT is one of my favorite games of all time
@Walther Penne Understandable, but it’s still one of the top three best Zelda’s of all time in my opinion.
Classic style 2D Zelda has reached sandbox 3D Mario levels of “Arlo doesn’t think this is ever gonna happen”
Did you forget about Mario Odyssey? That game did what 64 did and cracked it up to 11, though there's no hub world like in 64, Sunshine, or Galaxy 1. Each 3D Mario after 64 slowly became more and more linear, but Odyssey went back to sandbox-style mario levels like in 64. Odyssey 2 is likely in the works, and was likely worked on alongside Bowser's Fury which was sort of a psudo-demo for odyssey 2 which would focus on less of but more complex challenges instead of moons being scattered across everywhere. That would be 3 (4 if you count Bowser's Fury) fully sandbox 3D mario games, though Sunshine does come somewhat close.
@@krimsonkatt If I remember correctly, the "3d Mario sandbox isn't gonna happen" opinion was before Odyssey was announced. It took him by surprise, because he thought 3d Mario would continue to use a formula similar to Galaxy.
Although I'm suprised more AAA studios haven't taken a page from the more linear mario's like galaxy and 3d world given that their much more easier to make rather than a sandbox collectethon platformer
@@krimsonkatt chill friend, I’m referencing Arlo’s demeanor from before Odyssey was announced. Go watch the backlog :)
@@Oiram20 true. Maybe those devs wanted to fill the sandbox void? Or maybe it’s cause they played 64 and that’s what inspired them
To me it felt like a like between worlds was a reimagining of a link to the past because of them having the same map and also having a mechanic of traveling between realms
This was a nice one! You are not alone. I think about this the same way as you. I even have the exact opinions about EVERY Zelda game you mentioned. Still hoping for a complete original game in the traditional style.