(Loved the video) Do some research on microwaves and their affect on food. Speaking of “affect”, ever wonder what word to use?? “Effect” or “Affects”. ?? We can help remember it like this: “A” is for “Anti”. So use “Affect” when speaking of a negative influence on something. Use Effect for all other stuff and things such as special effects. I could have said the above like this: “A” is for “Anti”. So use “Affect” when speaking of a negative *effect* on something. Notice how with”effect” i needed to designate the negative or Anti attribute Soo just remember “A anti. Affect.” And now we will all always member the correct one to use…. Member? Re-member?? Whats up with that? Re-cover Dis-close Un-cover Confusing? Odd? Inverted? “I re-covered the submarine…” Re-covered indeed, as the pieces pictured portrayed quite the pickle. How on earth did they recover the vessel as shown to us (appearing like it had been in an automobile accident…or ok maybe went off a cliff or something); rather than how it should have looked….. which is completely unrecognizable. ripped/shredded/into pieces by the immense pressure of the ocean…. Many mysteries abound. What lies beneath DC of lies, Entrenched way under ground.
Engineering drawings from one of the largest dust collection systems manufacturers in the US. Try using their designs to find ratio for V3 of yours. Both of your designs are much much too wide and short. www.kice.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/CYC1003.pdf
FYI: The Dyson Vacuum cleaner was invented because James Dyson created a separation filter for the extraction in the ball barrow injection moulding machine shop. He got fed up of the generic filters clogging up. So the machine you are making out of Dyson vacuums is why the Dyson vacuum was invented in the first place. Source: I used to work for Dyson in Malmsbury in the 90's.
@@rubiconnn the cyclone separator had been in use for industrial applications like chaff separation. Dyson was the first to apply that technology to household vacuums. The reason they caught on was the fact that you didn't have to change a filter!
"invented" that's a very loose use of that word. Everything about it existed before. What you meant to say is that the cut&run brexiteer "adapted" an existing, used and fully understood concept to use in a vacuum cleaner. Nothing particularly spectacular about that, would've happened eventually, with or without him and as with a lot of other things, quite possibly had happened, but just got lucky.
Dyson stuff is genuinely high quality, and work very well. The problem with it, is it's horrendously expensive. If you can afford it, they're worth it.
1. Rubbery stuff ain't bueno, print ABS and vapor smooth it. 2. plasti-dip never sticks good. Good for making handles, where you keep adding it until it becomes a thick part, but even on handles it comes undone.
Cyclone separators aren't just used for cleaning. They have been used a lot in places where air is used to move particulate through pipes. They just get the stuff you are moving out of the airflow before it gets sucked into the fan, and deposit the stuff where you want it.
No way! I was just marvelling the other day with my dad about how neat the mechanics of cyclone separators are, and your previous video came up in conversation. Such a coincidence this drops on the same day.
For the issue of dust not falling down, I would give the cyclone separator vertical walls (instead of the cone shape which pushes heavy particles upwards via centrifugal force). You'd need to position the exit that dumps the dust into the bucket on the side of the bottom plate, though. (It's position on the bucket lid doesn't really matter.) You don't want it too large in order to avoid stirring up the dust in the bucket, but you also need it to cover at least a small section of the wall where the heavy dust will accumulate.
I like the idea of vertical walls, but I feel like the center hole into the bucket is a cleaner design. I wonder if extending the vertical-walled section of the cyclone separator would improve the performance without needing such a large hole in the bucket
@@camifracelli631 th-cam.com/video/z-xhYnWDCd0/w-d-xo.html is probably what you meant. I would have made the hole between the cyclone chamber and the bucket smaller, about a quarter of the circumference. That way the air in the bucket would get stirred up less.
To retain the speed of the air and then separate the high pressure air stream from the particulate, add an internal "shell" shaped internal wall (with tiny holes at sparse tiny holes and more holes closer to the end), such that the air stream expands at an algorithmically fixed rate to pressure-match the exterior of a symmetrical cone inside placed over the inlet to the next stage. The idea is to have a uniform pressure zone across the internal cone, and to have that pressure be maximally physically separate from zones of other pressure. By minimizing the pressure differencials, the particulate will be physically unable to catch sufficient air currents to fight gravity.
I can tell you actually understand this, because your explanation was 100% in your head, not ours. I'm no fluid dynamicist, but I think he's saying the reason the radial velocity drops off so fast is that all the air is rushing up the middle. Now, if you place some kind of layer in between the suction chamber and the vacuum, that has less holes in the middle and more towards the outside, it should even-out the total pressure pulling up on the air into the vacuum, which will reduce local eddies and turbulence, increasing efficiency and dust collection.
@@sl_st That seems to be closer to a modern vacuum cleaner design. I am thinking more of like... having a quasi-cylinder mesh over the out-take, and then a seasnail shell shaped baffle between it and the in-take. With 1-3 walls of the seasnail between the two. This seasnail shaped baffle should have a grid of holes that progress in size starting at the in-take, being very small and infrequent to being larger and more frequent. The holes must have pre-obstacles to act as wind-screens to help prevent particulate from entering them. The holes themselves should be shaped such that particles would have to do a 180 to go through them. Ideally, this will allow particulate from other levels to attempt to go into these and be stopped dead by the higher pressure air. The depth of the seasnail shaped baffle's walls into the bucket should vary as well, they need to be large enough to seperate the areas of differing pressure such that that pressure does not choose to go down rather than through our baffles. This depth can be decreased as it gets closer to the intake. The idea is to chop away at the air-pressure propelling the particulate, while introducing as many physical obstacles as possible. Adding wind-cages to various parts would help too, but would likely get overloaded easily near the in-take. Those wind-cages would have to be shaped such that particulate would want to deflect towards the barrel rather than the air-stream.
@@altus1226 Thank you for laying that out. Very interesting. I think it would only do well with smaller dust particles, so you might need another stage before it.
Nice video! Cyclone separators pretty interesting. My home central vac system uses one, but to solve the filter issue it just exhausts to outside, so there's no filter to replace.
What most people don’t mention with onshape is that with the free account everything you make is publicly available. You will have a professional account if you have the option to keep it private. Viewers with a free account won’t have that option, everything is public.
Some industrial cyclone designs I've seen will reduce the air volume at the bottom using a solid cone inside the end, rather than by tapering down the walls. This seems to allow better settling and reduce clogs.
@@MaxNippard correct, in water treatment also often combined with an inner perforated tube that follows most of the height of the housing, to act as a baffle and force flow down a larger height:diameter ratio.
Add a longer tube in the center and take more video! I tried to use some Excel calculators our there to design mine. I struggled with what length to make that center tube. mine goes about halfway down the cone. I have no idea if my flow looks like yours at the top or not. I made a frame out of 2x4 and plywood for mine. Rolled a piece of acrylic for cone shape. I drew it in 3D and used a sheet meal program to flatten it. I used that flat patter on the acrylic to make the cone shape and teardrop inlet shape. Then I siliconed a 4" PVC pipe into it tangent to the largest inside diameter. That was trimmed flush inside then. It works, I get tons of dust spirals and very little gets through into my bag filter. Watching your video makes me want to redo it with 3D printed parts!
Tip for sucking up foam; put a bare copper wire from the top of the cyclone down to the dust bin in the center and wire it to ground, its going to make the dust not or very little charged ;) i did that on my dust collection and it works really well, before i did that i could feel the static charge even on the outside when putting myhand close
I use your cyclone design all the time I have it on my shop vac its amazing for cleaning up drywall dust. using it has tripled the amount of time I can go before I have to knock the dust off the filter on the shop vac
Yeah, that thing REALLY needs to be grounded, especially if you're vacuuming up fine combustibles, last thing you want in there is a spark even at partial pressure. Grounding may also help the material fall into the trap
Wow. I've had one of these vacuums for years and always liked it, but this gives me a whole new appreciation for the design. I never knew that those pistony shapes on the outside were individual cyclone traps, or how they channeled down into the collection chambers. Dyson engineers should be proud!
4:17 you could have added inductor in series. Main property of conductor is that it doesnt allow sudden changes in current. So when you swith current would rise on a curve. Higher inductance, rises more slowly. You just take a thick enough wire and make a few turns until its good. This way you dont need a switch and its still dead simple
I have a super simple cyclone-less barrel with the air from the CNC machines fed into the top parallel with the walls of the barrel and the vacuum sucks up through the centre in the lid. It's very efficient even with polystyrene! I used it to empty all of the perlite from my kiln insulation without any dust going into the filter! It's shockingly efficient for such a simple design. I find slower speeds air speeds work a lot better... high flow big bore low pressure
I think you'll have more success with a narrower cone. The tighter radius should increase the centripetal force and improve separation, with the steeper walls helping the particles to fall down. You could maybe also try some vanes near the bottom to help direct the particles downwards, though this might disrupt the airflow too much. I'd like to see a two stage system with very small cyclones similar to the Dyson, would be interesting to see how much it helps.
You really should probably add support columns to the Cone that connect it's top to the lip of the lid, this thing looks one bad fall away from needing to be completely reconstructed
The funnel at the bottom is only there to collect the dust to the center. To improve performance increase the hight of the clilinder when the air spend more time and a larger area spinning the dust outward.
Oh wait, so those small ones are the actual cyclones! I took apart (completely) the Animal V6 in our home a few month earlier for cleaning and had no idea what are those "spouts". Impressive.
15:05 We need slow-mo footage of this phenomenon, stat. I'm pretty sure that sawdust is jumping, sticking, and then there's a polarity reversal and it's actually jumping away again. Something sort of like a super high voltage oxford bell, maybe? That's cool.
If the inside of the cyclone were mildly electrically conductive and grounded (like what you'd expect ESD-safe tooling to have), would that reduce the static clinging effect? Edit: a quick web search showed some spray-on urethane ESD sealant. Not sure how slippery a finish it would leave. It's like fifty bucks a can, oof. Edit 2: seems there are ESD-safe acrylic sheets available, too, if particles are getting stuck to the lid. The spray ESD stuff claims to be clear though, so if it adheres to acrylic, maybe it would work, too.
Our formula Student team designed an Oil cyclone. To make it more effective, we made the inlet tangential with a quarter rotation of lead in, so the oil (particles) clings better to the outside. Also the coneshaped bottom was formed with a spline, that pointed to a central point and was tangentual to a cylinder on the big end. If you want to improve your disign, this is one possible and easy way to do it.
There are a number of papers people have written on cyclone separators. I did some research into them a while back. A common design is the 1d3c (I think, might be getting the name wrong) where the cylinder section at the top is as tall as its diameter. The cone section is 3 times as tall as the cylinder diameter. I think the exit at the bottom was like 1/4 diameter and the top exit was about the same.
Not sure about how all the complex air flow works, but I think having a taller cylinder section would help with keeping the particles moving fast. Maybe? Idk. Also if you can measure the mass and/or volumetric flow rate, there are equations for how to properly size your separator. I think that might be a reason for the number of smaller ones in the Dyson. For peak performance of those smaller diameter cyclones, they want a lower flow rate.
2:49 Although Dyson’s “Cinetic” Technology got damn close! Given it *seems* they have given up on it, you figuring out how to do *that* the next time you make something in this series would be AMAZING!
The reason shop vac's are noisy is the same reason they are so good at what they do. They have separate impellers for suction and motor cooling making it safe to suction water with them. Twice as many impellers plus a much more powerful motor and the fact that the cooling impeller's intake doesn't have to suck through 6 feet of hose and a giant expansion chamber that acts like a muffler so you get more of that raw 'blades chopping through air' sound. Household vacuums use the same air for suction and motor cooling. Its usually sucked into the impeller and the exhaust is vented around and through the motor on its way out of the vacuum so there is a lot more restriction to help smooth out those sound waves. If you were able to design a cover for the shop vac that vented both exhausts and the motors cooling intake outside through a window or something you could probably get rid of most of that noise.
Please do more of the cyclone experiments! Love them :) if I would have the skills and tools like you I would design all day different layouts to find the perfect cyclone design for wood dust which is low profile but max efficient :)
This is surely one interesting video series. Dyson has some good ideas and one could always work on a sort of that design. There are indeed back pack vacuums.
@15:16 - not that it matters much, but if you passed a Shark steamer over the opening of that container, you would knock that static down post haste. I use warm, moist breath to keep my fresh ground coffee from jumping out of the filter and sticking to the inside of the grinder container. I simply breath in to the opening of the grind cup before I pour it in to the melitta filter. No more hopping grounds.
I don´t know if central vacs are common where you live, but they are resonable common here. What it is is a tube network around the house with lids on a micro swich on. if any of the lids open, the vac starts.. Typically the handle and hose is quite long. So typically there is one or two outlet in the hallway, and that is sufficient to go all the way onto the corner in every room. This could also be used to link up several machines.
You should add some spiraled indents on the inside of the cone part of the separator, sort of like the threads on a screw, to help force the particulate down as it spins and ensure that larger objects also get forced down and don't just spin around.
Have you considered using the same technique that is used in Laser Printers to temporally adhere the super fine toner to the paper before fusing? The paper is usually negatively charged which attracts the positively charged toner to it. You might be able to do something similar with your bucket, making it positively charged which would help trap the finer dust particles in it as most fine dust naturally becomes negatively charged.
I have already thought about a similar design. Ng without third-party generators. The voltage will be generated by the dust itself. Look at my SL_ST CYCLONE construction;)
@@jttech44 1) Causing the unit to have a positive charge doesn't create ozone. The goal isn't to create sparks/plasma, but rather to bring it up to a higher voltage potential then the dust. 2) If you have sparking/ozone you're doing it wrong. 3) The point of grounding the bucket already takes advantage of this effect to a small degree. 4) The dust is so negatively charged in the video that it's already a hazard, having the bucket at a positive potential would if anything, reduce this danger. 5) Every brushed motor (yes not the dysons used here) including those in your average shop vac generates high voltage sparks AND as a result ozone as the magnetic field in the coil of each winding collapses.
I used an ordinary vacuum cleaner while routing some oak. Took the hose off the router to get some other spills, I put my fingers over the hose end to mimick the tabs and notches preventing hose to stick and WoWZa! ...or rather Wow-ZAP! Got quite the electrostatic discharge that I felt even far up my arm!
I work at a place with huge industrial CNCs, and the remarks about foam made me think: When we mill resin and dense foams, the dust and debris only fill up a few bags but they weigh a ton. When we mill styrofoam, we fill up a dumpster full of trash bags filled to capacity. The dust collector systems we have make this horribly loud noise about 1.5 seconds after they start spinning up, after that it's white noise. So whenever I'm on cleanup duty near them, I always wear earplugs. We don't use the dust collectors for styrofoam debris, as I'm pretty sure they'll go straight to the final stage and clog whatever is in front of the thing that moves the air.
Cool electrostatic effects in the bucket. I wonder if spraying the inside of the plastic parts (or using metal parts where feasible) would help eliminate the spark hazard? Cutting foam would still probably produce a bunch of clingy foam bits, for that it might be interesting to add some of those static eliminators containing radioactive polonium-210. Any serious workshop should have a radioactive cyclone device!
0:28 you note the imperfection causing a heck of a lot of issues. If you want to 3D print one of these babies, and use it, you have to sand the insides smooth. That, or use ABS and vapor smooth it. The efficiency goes out the window, the rougher the surface is.
A foam muffler on the exhaust side can make a difference for the noise level. Look at Oneida dust separator muffler. It's just a foam cylinder inline with the exhaust port.
You could maybe try a little internal winglet just after the intake from the vacuum hose to redirect everything coming in, down, but still in a spiral.
note that the difference in size of the cyclones works on the different scale debris- smaller diameter cyclone separates smaller particles - increasing number gives the same flow rate as the single larger unit..
i think this design would really benefit from some buttresses from the lids to the main cone and then a second from the acrylic lid to the filter cone, to stop all the wobbling. definitely would cut down on light reaching the acrylic so it makes it harder to video but i think it would help prevent the lid breaking when everything tips over
If you wanted to make it less "lanky" you could try putting the vacuums at the base of the cyclone with a tube connecting it. It might be wider than the bucket, but if the vacuums are directly mounted to the lid, it may not be prone to falling over!
15:04 Static is not your best friend when it comes to cyclone separators. That is why Dyson has that fine particulate build up at times around the cyclones and even in the bin. Static cling. The hack for that is a cyclonic anti static particulate floating filter. I cut sections of a bounce sheet in small squares and throw that into the dust bin of my V11. Or on the uprights or Ball Dyson, put one bounce sheet or half into the bin. It does marvels and it actually keeps the passages cleaner and the cyclones cleaner plus it actually reduces the amount of dust on the Dyson turbine fans. It works amazing. Plus it keeps those pre motor filters cleaner and hepa filters. Use non scented bouce sheets. De static your canister and neutralize the particulate. Don't tell Dyson this 😂
@@ahavelandI haven't used it, but there is a clear, ESD-safe aerosol spray sealant that claims to adhere to plastic and metal. Haven't used it myself, but I was curious too. Conductive acrylic is apparently a thing, too.
@@SeanCMonahan Sounds useful - a cyclone that doubles as a Van de Graaf generator is not a good combination if it makes a spark in a large container of fine flammable dust or flour particles! Whole factories, coalmines and bakeries have been leveled to the ground with many fatalities because of this.
@@ahaveland Yeah the negative charge is basically stuck on the plastic. Normally they ionize the air going in with an ionization bar or static control gun or something. So they normally create a balance with positively charged air. But its a shady thing to experiment with when it comes to dust explosions.
@@ahaveland what would cause the spark? I guess I'm not familiar with how a Van de Graaf actually operates. I would think that having the walls grounded would reduce the voltage differential between the dust and the wall that's responsible for the clinging.
If you want it to be more compact: print yourself the Sysclone for Festool Systainer. This is stackable with alle other Systainer components and works well.
Static electric charges may be the cause of your fine dust problem. If made of conductive materials and grounded for operator safety, it might work perfectly. At my former work using non-conductive hoses for dust collection would rock your world with serious shocks.
TRY THIS!: Modell a downwards leading thread in your cyclone body. It helps 'guide' particles downward. Also where the cyclone meets the bucket, there should be a ~10cm long ~6cm in diameter pipe, leading downwards. Last, i had better result with the vaccumpipe not intruding into the cyclone. If someome is interessted i can link thingyverse pics/stl. cheers
Both designs used on this channel are much too wide. Industrial use dust collectors / material transfer systems use cyclones that are much, much more narrow. Kice industries is a massive international leader in pneumatic conveyance systems / dust collection systems. They have design drawings available on their website. Try using their deigns as a template to ratio your own smaller, narrow version. www.kice.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/CYC1003.pdf
I also noticed that the dyson vac has an intake tube on the motor side of the little cyclones as well. Maybe to prevent the intake and outlet to be too close and sucking up smaller dust? Maybe take that into your next design as well! If not, i might be trying this soon myself if i can invest in a 3D printer and the parts :)
Multi stage would be the best bet. Having a misting stage at the end, should get the last little bits, while cooling the air as it comes out. In the LA area rn. Heat is on the mind alot...
I love the automotive air filter, my planer fills up a 55 gallon drum after just 1 hour of usage but worse my hand sander particles make it past my cyclone and clogs the shop vac after just 15 min of usage. Im going to steal the automotive filter idea and add it between my cyclone and shop vac. A simple screw, screwed into the bottom of the bucked and a 22 gauge wire just long enough to drag around a 6mm bolt (1/4in) on the floor is more than enough to ground the bucked. If you want to do extra tape some HVAC aluminum foil to the inside down the vertical axis along the wall to the screw.
8:58 don't waste your time with Acrylic, always use Polycarbonate. Its a little more money but way stronger and doesn't crack, it is actually considered to literally be bulletproof 😉
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
Use code RCTESTFLIGHT50 to get 50% off your first Factor box at bit.ly/3JgFdFQ!
(Loved the video)
Do some research on microwaves and their affect on food.
Speaking of “affect”, ever wonder what word to use??
“Effect” or “Affects”. ??
We can help remember it like this:
“A” is for “Anti”. So use “Affect” when speaking of a negative influence on something.
Use Effect for all other stuff and things such as special effects.
I could have said the above like this:
“A” is for “Anti”. So use “Affect” when speaking of a negative *effect* on something.
Notice how with”effect” i needed to designate the negative or
Anti attribute
Soo just remember “A anti. Affect.”
And now we will all always member the correct one to use….
Member? Re-member?? Whats up with that?
Re-cover
Dis-close
Un-cover
Confusing? Odd? Inverted?
“I re-covered the submarine…”
Re-covered indeed, as the pieces pictured portrayed quite the pickle. How on earth did they recover the vessel as shown to us (appearing like it had been in an automobile accident…or ok maybe went off a cliff or something); rather than how it should have looked…..
which is completely unrecognizable.
ripped/shredded/into pieces by the immense pressure of the ocean….
Many mysteries abound. What lies beneath DC of lies,
Entrenched way under ground.
#ViktorSchauberger natural implosion based technology of nature. Natured isn’t about Xplosions.
Engineering drawings from one of the largest dust collection systems manufacturers in the US. Try using their designs to find ratio for V3 of yours. Both of your designs are much much too wide and short. www.kice.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/CYC1003.pdf
Is it possible to design something that would disperse the static electricity and make the foam dust fall out of the bucket?
The fine dust goes in...?
That’s right! It goes into the square holes. 13:13
FYI: The Dyson Vacuum cleaner was invented because James Dyson created a separation filter for the extraction in the ball barrow injection moulding machine shop. He got fed up of the generic filters clogging up.
So the machine you are making out of Dyson vacuums is why the Dyson vacuum was invented in the first place.
Source: I used to work for Dyson in Malmsbury in the 90's.
i can imagine the agony of changing filters every week and why it was invented hahahhaha
Except the entire concept had existed for decades and was already in widespread use.
@@rubiconnn the cyclone separator had been in use for industrial applications like chaff separation. Dyson was the first to apply that technology to household vacuums. The reason they caught on was the fact that you didn't have to change a filter!
Uh there's no filters on an injection molding machine. unless it's in the electronics bay.. I know a ton about injection molding.
"invented" that's a very loose use of that word. Everything about it existed before. What you meant to say is that the cut&run brexiteer "adapted" an existing, used and fully understood concept to use in a vacuum cleaner. Nothing particularly spectacular about that, would've happened eventually, with or without him and as with a lot of other things, quite possibly had happened, but just got lucky.
"Let's say your hose is smaller than mine, and it probably is..." 😂😂🤣🤣
The way he said it made it even better :D
Smooth criminal, this guy 😂
😎
Gottem! LOL
Children, come out of the closet, stop measuring each other...
explaining the air path with the cut in half dyson was amazing!! big props
I've always wondered what a Dyson looked like inside. That was satisfying.
13:15 Never knew that Dyson's vacuum design actually was functional like how you described it! Kinda makes me want to buy one after your explanation 😅
Same. I thought it was all for show
No, it’s form following function. It’s a beautiful design, and high tech motors.
Dyson stuff is genuinely high quality, and work very well. The problem with it, is it's horrendously expensive. If you can afford it, they're worth it.
@@octane613They use to be high quality but not anymore, they suffer from cost cutting to make higher profits.
I feel like plasti-dip spray would work well for sealing 3d printed items, especially for boat hulls or things that need to be air tight
Or Flex Seal!
The adhesion of that stuff isn't very good unfortunately. So while film thickness would be good, it may not be very durable.
Nope, that stuff never sticks very long.
1. Rubbery stuff ain't bueno, print ABS and vapor smooth it.
2. plasti-dip never sticks good. Good for making handles, where you keep adding it until it becomes a thick part, but even on handles it comes undone.
@@aserta could SuspendaSlurry work? abs prints awfully at large scale
Loving the different content, of course aviation is fun but seeing all the engineering feats play into different fields is hella entertaining
you inspired me to build my own DIY paramotor and i went to fly it these days first time! thanks daniel
Is it save to make things like that yourself
@@free_kids_in_bio uhm... nope but i did it anyway. there is a video you can see the first flight
@@cloudpandarism2627hahaha, that's the spirit!
@@stasi0238 🤪
That slowmo is incredible. Nice work
Cyclone separators aren't just used for cleaning. They have been used a lot in places where air is used to move particulate through pipes. They just get the stuff you are moving out of the airflow before it gets sucked into the fan, and deposit the stuff where you want it.
I thought the little things at the top of the vacuums were completely aesthetics! It's quite cool that they actually have a purpose
No way! I was just marvelling the other day with my dad about how neat the mechanics of cyclone separators are, and your previous video came up in conversation.
Such a coincidence this drops on the same day.
For the issue of dust not falling down, I would give the cyclone separator vertical walls (instead of the cone shape which pushes heavy particles upwards via centrifugal force). You'd need to position the exit that dumps the dust into the bucket on the side of the bottom plate, though. (It's position on the bucket lid doesn't really matter.) You don't want it too large in order to avoid stirring up the dust in the bucket, but you also need it to cover at least a small section of the wall where the heavy dust will accumulate.
It might be static electricity generated on the plexiglas attracting the dust as well.
I like the idea of vertical walls, but I feel like the center hole into the bucket is a cleaner design. I wonder if extending the vertical-walled section of the cyclone separator would improve the performance without needing such a large hole in the bucket
Or baffles
Check Mathias wandel design. He did exactly this
@@camifracelli631 th-cam.com/video/z-xhYnWDCd0/w-d-xo.html is probably what you meant. I would have made the hole between the cyclone chamber and the bucket smaller, about a quarter of the circumference. That way the air in the bucket would get stirred up less.
To retain the speed of the air and then separate the high pressure air stream from the particulate, add an internal "shell" shaped internal wall (with tiny holes at sparse tiny holes and more holes closer to the end), such that the air stream expands at an algorithmically fixed rate to pressure-match the exterior of a symmetrical cone inside placed over the inlet to the next stage.
The idea is to have a uniform pressure zone across the internal cone, and to have that pressure be maximally physically separate from zones of other pressure.
By minimizing the pressure differencials, the particulate will be physically unable to catch sufficient air currents to fight gravity.
Can you clarify what you mean here? Seems like a very interesting design.
I can tell you actually understand this, because your explanation was 100% in your head, not ours. I'm no fluid dynamicist, but I think he's saying the reason the radial velocity drops off so fast is that all the air is rushing up the middle. Now, if you place some kind of layer in between the suction chamber and the vacuum, that has less holes in the middle and more towards the outside, it should even-out the total pressure pulling up on the air into the vacuum, which will reduce local eddies and turbulence, increasing efficiency and dust collection.
An interesting solution to compensate for uneven pressure. I'm interested in what you may say about my separator design. SL_ST CYCLONE;)
@@sl_st That seems to be closer to a modern vacuum cleaner design.
I am thinking more of like... having a quasi-cylinder mesh over the out-take, and then a seasnail shell shaped baffle between it and the in-take. With 1-3 walls of the seasnail between the two.
This seasnail shaped baffle should have a grid of holes that progress in size starting at the in-take, being very small and infrequent to being larger and more frequent.
The holes must have pre-obstacles to act as wind-screens to help prevent particulate from entering them.
The holes themselves should be shaped such that particles would have to do a 180 to go through them.
Ideally, this will allow particulate from other levels to attempt to go into these and be stopped dead by the higher pressure air.
The depth of the seasnail shaped baffle's walls into the bucket should vary as well, they need to be large enough to seperate the areas of differing pressure such that that pressure does not choose to go down rather than through our baffles. This depth can be decreased as it gets closer to the intake.
The idea is to chop away at the air-pressure propelling the particulate, while introducing as many physical obstacles as possible.
Adding wind-cages to various parts would help too, but would likely get overloaded easily near the in-take. Those wind-cages would have to be shaped such that particulate would want to deflect towards the barrel rather than the air-stream.
@@altus1226 Thank you for laying that out. Very interesting. I think it would only do well with smaller dust particles, so you might need another stage before it.
"You wouldn't be watching a video about a shop vac"
*Laughs in Technology Connections*
I'm an Onshape user because of you. I bought a 3d printer and now I'm making all sorts of pieces.
Need part two to the autonomous boat video!!!
Nice video! Cyclone separators pretty interesting. My home central vac system uses one, but to solve the filter issue it just exhausts to outside, so there's no filter to replace.
Makes me wanna CNC all night long. Genius
Thanks. Understanding the 2-stage process is key to understanding the Dyson. Other TH-camrs don't get it.
What most people don’t mention with onshape is that with the free account everything you make is publicly available. You will have a professional account if you have the option to keep it private. Viewers with a free account won’t have that option, everything is public.
Hey I came up with a design of my own when I saw your first video. I’ve been using it a while now and it’s been fantastic
Some industrial cyclone designs I've seen will reduce the air volume at the bottom using a solid cone inside the end, rather than by tapering down the walls. This seems to allow better settling and reduce clogs.
So the outer wall is a cylinder with vertical sides?
And is the opening to drop the dust down a ring around the base of the cone?
@@MaxNippard correct, in water treatment also often combined with an inner perforated tube that follows most of the height of the housing, to act as a baffle and force flow down a larger height:diameter ratio.
Add a longer tube in the center and take more video! I tried to use some Excel calculators our there to design mine. I struggled with what length to make that center tube. mine goes about halfway down the cone. I have no idea if my flow looks like yours at the top or not. I made a frame out of 2x4 and plywood for mine. Rolled a piece of acrylic for cone shape. I drew it in 3D and used a sheet meal program to flatten it. I used that flat patter on the acrylic to make the cone shape and teardrop inlet shape. Then I siliconed a 4" PVC pipe into it tangent to the largest inside diameter. That was trimmed flush inside then. It works, I get tons of dust spirals and very little gets through into my bag filter. Watching your video makes me want to redo it with 3D printed parts!
I really like that you smoothed the inside cone.
Tip for sucking up foam; put a bare copper wire from the top of the cyclone down to the dust bin in the center and wire it to ground, its going to make the dust not or very little charged ;)
i did that on my dust collection and it works really well, before i did that i could feel the static charge even on the outside when putting myhand close
Would having a metal bin connected to earth have a similar effect?
@@shakeit995 probably yea
I use your cyclone design all the time I have it on my shop vac its amazing for cleaning up drywall dust. using it has tripled the amount of time I can go before I have to knock the dust off the filter on the shop vac
Yeah, that thing REALLY needs to be grounded, especially if you're vacuuming up fine combustibles, last thing you want in there is a spark even at partial pressure. Grounding may also help the material fall into the trap
Wow. I've had one of these vacuums for years and always liked it, but this gives me a whole new appreciation for the design. I never knew that those pistony shapes on the outside were individual cyclone traps, or how they channeled down into the collection chambers. Dyson engineers should be proud!
4:17 you could have added inductor in series. Main property of conductor is that it doesnt allow sudden changes in current. So when you swith current would rise on a curve. Higher inductance, rises more slowly. You just take a thick enough wire and make a few turns until its good. This way you dont need a switch and its still dead simple
I have a super simple cyclone-less barrel with the air from the CNC machines fed into the top parallel with the walls of the barrel and the vacuum sucks up through the centre in the lid. It's very efficient even with polystyrene! I used it to empty all of the perlite from my kiln insulation without any dust going into the filter! It's shockingly efficient for such a simple design.
I find slower speeds air speeds work a lot better... high flow big bore low pressure
I think you'll have more success with a narrower cone. The tighter radius should increase the centripetal force and improve separation, with the steeper walls helping the particles to fall down.
You could maybe also try some vanes near the bottom to help direct the particles downwards, though this might disrupt the airflow too much.
I'd like to see a two stage system with very small cyclones similar to the Dyson, would be interesting to see how much it helps.
You really should probably add support columns to the Cone that connect it's top to the lip of the lid, this thing looks one bad fall away from needing to be completely reconstructed
The funnel at the bottom is only there to collect the dust to the center. To improve performance increase the hight of the clilinder when the air spend more time and a larger area spinning the dust outward.
That song at the end? *chef’s kiss*
Oh wait, so those small ones are the actual cyclones!
I took apart (completely) the Animal V6 in our home a few month earlier for cleaning and had no idea what are those "spouts".
Impressive.
15:05 We need slow-mo footage of this phenomenon, stat. I'm pretty sure that sawdust is jumping, sticking, and then there's a polarity reversal and it's actually jumping away again. Something sort of like a super high voltage oxford bell, maybe? That's cool.
If the inside of the cyclone were mildly electrically conductive and grounded (like what you'd expect ESD-safe tooling to have), would that reduce the static clinging effect?
Edit: a quick web search showed some spray-on urethane ESD sealant. Not sure how slippery a finish it would leave. It's like fifty bucks a can, oof.
Edit 2: seems there are ESD-safe acrylic sheets available, too, if particles are getting stuck to the lid. The spray ESD stuff claims to be clear though, so if it adheres to acrylic, maybe it would work, too.
Industrial applications use metal cones with grounded surfaces (by default and nature).
Our formula Student team designed an Oil cyclone.
To make it more effective, we made the inlet tangential with a quarter rotation of lead in, so the oil (particles) clings better to the outside.
Also the coneshaped bottom was formed with a spline, that pointed to a central point and was tangentual to a cylinder on the big end.
If you want to improve your disign, this is one possible and easy way to do it.
There are a number of papers people have written on cyclone separators. I did some research into them a while back. A common design is the 1d3c (I think, might be getting the name wrong) where the cylinder section at the top is as tall as its diameter. The cone section is 3 times as tall as the cylinder diameter. I think the exit at the bottom was like 1/4 diameter and the top exit was about the same.
Not sure about how all the complex air flow works, but I think having a taller cylinder section would help with keeping the particles moving fast. Maybe? Idk.
Also if you can measure the mass and/or volumetric flow rate, there are equations for how to properly size your separator. I think that might be a reason for the number of smaller ones in the Dyson. For peak performance of those smaller diameter cyclones, they want a lower flow rate.
2:49 Although Dyson’s “Cinetic” Technology got damn close!
Given it *seems* they have given up on it, you figuring out how to do *that* the next time you make something in this series would be AMAZING!
14:33 damn thats some serious vacuum technology. big up sir james dyson
That flow at the end f'n slaps yo
Liked the split-and-tell of the dyson's insides!
The reason shop vac's are noisy is the same reason they are so good at what they do. They have separate impellers for suction and motor cooling making it safe to suction water with them. Twice as many impellers plus a much more powerful motor and the fact that the cooling impeller's intake doesn't have to suck through 6 feet of hose and a giant expansion chamber that acts like a muffler so you get more of that raw 'blades chopping through air' sound. Household vacuums use the same air for suction and motor cooling. Its usually sucked into the impeller and the exhaust is vented around and through the motor on its way out of the vacuum so there is a lot more restriction to help smooth out those sound waves. If you were able to design a cover for the shop vac that vented both exhausts and the motors cooling intake outside through a window or something you could probably get rid of most of that noise.
That might be the best song I've heard from the Cyclone Separator Trap/Hip Hop Scene so far in 2023! ( 15:34 )
Didn't expect another vacuum video. Did enjoy the vacuum video.
never before did i think i would watch a 16 minute video about vacuuming
this comment wasn’t even 10 minutes after the video released
I have a cyclone on my cnc, love it. cut carbon and wood for 3 years solid and no dust in shop vac.
That squat on the stack when its under vaccum is cool
Please do more of the cyclone experiments! Love them :) if I would have the skills and tools like you I would design all day different layouts to find the perfect cyclone design for wood dust which is low profile but max efficient :)
This is surely one interesting video series. Dyson has some good ideas and one could always work on a sort of that design. There are indeed back pack vacuums.
@15:16 - not that it matters much, but if you passed a Shark steamer over the opening of that container, you would knock that static down post haste. I use warm, moist breath to keep my fresh ground coffee from jumping out of the filter and sticking to the inside of the grinder container. I simply breath in to the opening of the grind cup before I pour it in to the melitta filter. No more hopping grounds.
It was a pleasure meeting you at Open Sauce :) thanks for inspiring me
I don´t know if central vacs are common where you live, but they are resonable common here.
What it is is a tube network around the house with lids on a micro swich on. if any of the lids open, the vac starts.. Typically the handle and hose is quite long. So typically there is one or two outlet in the hallway, and that is sufficient to go all the way onto the corner in every room.
This could also be used to link up several machines.
You should add some spiraled indents on the inside of the cone part of the separator, sort of like the threads on a screw, to help force the particulate down as it spins and ensure that larger objects also get forced down and don't just spin around.
Have you considered using the same technique that is used in Laser Printers to temporally adhere the super fine toner to the paper before fusing? The paper is usually negatively charged which attracts the positively charged toner to it. You might be able to do something similar with your bucket, making it positively charged which would help trap the finer dust particles in it as most fine dust naturally becomes negatively charged.
Yes, add a bunch of ozone and high voltage electricity to what is already a potential explosion hazard.
I have already thought about a similar design. Ng without third-party generators. The voltage will be generated by the dust itself. Look at my SL_ST CYCLONE construction;)
@@jttech44 1) Causing the unit to have a positive charge doesn't create ozone. The goal isn't to create sparks/plasma, but rather to bring it up to a higher voltage potential then the dust. 2) If you have sparking/ozone you're doing it wrong. 3) The point of grounding the bucket already takes advantage of this effect to a small degree. 4) The dust is so negatively charged in the video that it's already a hazard, having the bucket at a positive potential would if anything, reduce this danger. 5) Every brushed motor (yes not the dysons used here) including those in your average shop vac generates high voltage sparks AND as a result ozone as the magnetic field in the coil of each winding collapses.
I used an ordinary vacuum cleaner while routing some oak. Took the hose off the router to get some other spills, I put my fingers over the hose end to mimick the tabs and notches preventing hose to stick and WoWZa! ...or rather Wow-ZAP! Got quite the electrostatic discharge that I felt even far up my arm!
i once went through the patents on cyclone separators for work. Multistage ones date back to the 1920s
Damn, your tools and camera equipment are a dream! You have every toy a man can wish for
"I should probably do that " famous last words 😂😂😂
I am SO happy to hear the Cyclone song again.....
The best.
Your cyclone separator videos are among my fav and how I discovered your amazing channel. Keep up the gray work
Ya'know on those Factor meals, I picked up a Fresnel from the Dollar shop in my area... Makes me think about making one of those solar cookers!
I work at a place with huge industrial CNCs, and the remarks about foam made me think:
When we mill resin and dense foams, the dust and debris only fill up a few bags but they weigh a ton. When we mill styrofoam, we fill up a dumpster full of trash bags filled to capacity.
The dust collector systems we have make this horribly loud noise about 1.5 seconds after they start spinning up, after that it's white noise. So whenever I'm on cleanup duty near them, I always wear earplugs. We don't use the dust collectors for styrofoam debris, as I'm pretty sure they'll go straight to the final stage and clog whatever is in front of the thing that moves the air.
Cool electrostatic effects in the bucket. I wonder if spraying the inside of the plastic parts (or using metal parts where feasible) would help eliminate the spark hazard?
Cutting foam would still probably produce a bunch of clingy foam bits, for that it might be interesting to add some of those static eliminators containing radioactive polonium-210. Any serious workshop should have a radioactive cyclone device!
To suppress the sparking you can use a capacitor in parallel with the switch.
0:28 you note the imperfection causing a heck of a lot of issues. If you want to 3D print one of these babies, and use it, you have to sand the insides smooth. That, or use ABS and vapor smooth it. The efficiency goes out the window, the rougher the surface is.
The static charges build up is INSANE !
Might you do something with it ?
That static from the saw dust is CRAZY!
Did you notice it's actually bouncing back and forth, as each particle swaps charges?
@@jercos Yeah! It's crazy how charge can make non ferrous materials behave like this.
A foam muffler on the exhaust side can make a difference for the noise level. Look at Oneida dust separator muffler. It's just a foam cylinder inline with the exhaust port.
Damn he went all out! No budget cuts this time!
tbh dyson's funky shape actually being functional was the biggest surprise
You could maybe try a little internal winglet just after the intake from the vacuum hose to redirect everything coming in, down, but still in a spiral.
If you're above 90F, definitely be wary of fires. I used to work in TX cabinet shops, and saw several spontaneous fires over the years
note that the difference in size of the cyclones works on the different scale debris- smaller diameter cyclone separates smaller particles - increasing number gives the same flow rate as the single larger unit..
I was waiting for the cyclone song the whole video :) glad to hear it again after so long
i think this design would really benefit from some buttresses from the lids to the main cone and then a second from the acrylic lid to the filter cone, to stop all the wobbling. definitely would cut down on light reaching the acrylic so it makes it harder to video but i think it would help prevent the lid breaking when everything tips over
If you wanted to make it less "lanky" you could try putting the vacuums at the base of the cyclone with a tube connecting it. It might be wider than the bucket, but if the vacuums are directly mounted to the lid, it may not be prone to falling over!
15:04 Static is not your best friend when it comes to cyclone separators. That is why Dyson has that fine particulate build up at times around the cyclones and even in the bin. Static cling. The hack for that is a cyclonic anti static particulate floating filter. I cut sections of a bounce sheet in small squares and throw that into the dust bin of my V11. Or on the uprights or Ball Dyson, put one bounce sheet or half into the bin. It does marvels and it actually keeps the passages cleaner and the cyclones cleaner plus it actually reduces the amount of dust on the Dyson turbine fans. It works amazing. Plus it keeps those pre motor filters cleaner and hepa filters. Use non scented bouce sheets. De static your canister and neutralize the particulate. Don't tell Dyson this 😂
Sir Daniel. Google Pullman Ermator and consider adjusting the shape of your cone. I'd enjoy seeing a comparison of designs.
Man, static is crazy. Would be cool to see how effective grounding it would be.
Difficult to ground something that doesn't conduct. I think you would have to aluminize it first.
@@ahavelandI haven't used it, but there is a clear, ESD-safe aerosol spray sealant that claims to adhere to plastic and metal. Haven't used it myself, but I was curious too. Conductive acrylic is apparently a thing, too.
@@SeanCMonahan Sounds useful - a cyclone that doubles as a Van de Graaf generator is not a good combination if it makes a spark in a large container of fine flammable dust or flour particles!
Whole factories, coalmines and bakeries have been leveled to the ground with many fatalities because of this.
@@ahaveland Yeah the negative charge is basically stuck on the plastic. Normally they ionize the air going in with an ionization bar or static control gun or something. So they normally create a balance with positively charged air. But its a shady thing to experiment with when it comes to dust explosions.
@@ahaveland what would cause the spark? I guess I'm not familiar with how a Van de Graaf actually operates. I would think that having the walls grounded would reduce the voltage differential between the dust and the wall that's responsible for the clinging.
We come for the fun science and stay for the music, it's appreciated and always slaps XD
You may try a water filtration bucket for ultra small particles, maybe between the cabin filter and the cyclone separator, or even after... idk
adding a grounded copper wire throughout the tubes/chambers might help with the static electricity
2:04 You can make the design even easier to edit by having the hose diameter be a variable and putting it at the top of the feature list
If you want it to be more compact: print yourself the Sysclone for Festool Systainer. This is stackable with alle other Systainer components and works well.
Adding diy or purchase comparison at the end of the video will make much more sense for building these things.
Static electric charges may be the cause of your fine dust problem. If made of conductive materials and grounded for operator safety, it might work perfectly. At my former work using non-conductive hoses for dust collection would rock your world with serious shocks.
TRY THIS!: Modell a downwards leading thread in your cyclone body. It helps 'guide' particles downward. Also where the cyclone meets the bucket, there should be a ~10cm long ~6cm in diameter pipe, leading downwards. Last, i had better result with the vaccumpipe not intruding into the cyclone.
If someome is interessted i can link thingyverse pics/stl. cheers
Both designs used on this channel are much too wide. Industrial use dust collectors / material transfer systems use cyclones that are much, much more narrow. Kice industries is a massive international leader in pneumatic conveyance systems / dust collection systems. They have design drawings available on their website. Try using their deigns as a template to ratio your own smaller, narrow version. www.kice.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/CYC1003.pdf
I also noticed that the dyson vac has an intake tube on the motor side of the little cyclones as well. Maybe to prevent the intake and outlet to be too close and sucking up smaller dust? Maybe take that into your next design as well! If not, i might be trying this soon myself if i can invest in a 3D printer and the parts :)
try a cyclone seperator with a numatic vacuum the henry vacuum is designed to be used in an office while people are there but super well built
All parts of the vacuum cleaner have finally combined!
Multi stage would be the best bet. Having a misting stage at the end, should get the last little bits, while cooling the air as it comes out. In the LA area rn. Heat is on the mind alot...
Really love the theme songs for these videos. So fun and catchy!
I love the automotive air filter, my planer fills up a 55 gallon drum after just 1 hour of usage but worse my hand sander particles make it past my cyclone and clogs the shop vac after just 15 min of usage. Im going to steal the automotive filter idea and add it between my cyclone and shop vac.
A simple screw, screwed into the bottom of the bucked and a 22 gauge wire just long enough to drag around a 6mm bolt (1/4in) on the floor is more than enough to ground the bucked. If you want to do extra tape some HVAC aluminum foil to the inside down the vertical axis along the wall to the screw.
You could maybe add a electrostatic filter stage to the cyclones and maybe a dust compactor for the collected debre.
2:05 "This is super useful, because, let's say your hose is smaller than mine, which it probably is"
Damn
8:58 don't waste your time with Acrylic, always use Polycarbonate.
Its a little more money but way stronger and doesn't crack, it is actually considered to literally be bulletproof 😉