ไม่สามารถเล่นวิดีโอนี้
ขออภัยในความไม่สะดวก
Family faces many thousands of dollars in fines, legal bills over backyard patio in Indianapolis
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 พ.ค. 2023
- Kim and Ray Peck had no clue a backyard renovation meant to update a patio would wind up costing them hundreds of thousands of dollars over the years.
For the past 19 years, the Indianapolis couple has lived in a home that sits along Geist Reservoir.
“We’ve always wanted to live on the lake,” Kim told 13News. “It’s just so relaxing to be out here.”
But relaxing is not how the Pecks describe their lengthy legal fight with the City of Indianapolis - a fight that focuses on their backyard patio.
“It’s hard to even enjoy it because you’re thinking at any moment, someone’s gonna say ‘You have to rip this out,'” Kim said.
“It has easily been the worst experience of our lives,” added Ray.
The legal battle between the Pecks and the City of Indianapolis involves a zoning rule that few people know about. Legal experts say that rule impacts thousands of other homeowners across Indiana’s largest city and, if enforced, could cost other families thousands of dollars in fines and legal bills.
MORE: www.wthr.com/a...
More local videos here: / @wthr13news
Stay connected:
13News website: www.wthr.com/
Tik Tok: / wthrcom
Instagram: / wthrcom
X: / wthrcom
Facebook: / wthr13
Download the 13News app: www.wthr.com/app
They generally don't hound you until a neighbor that doesn't like you calls and complains.
So the city zoning office is sometimes used as a tool of revenge.
To a hammer, everything‘s now nail.
same with every and alllll governmental agencies...stupid and shameful
i had a neighbor who didn't like anybody. she'd look up things to enforce on all her neighbors. I couldn't park on the street in front of my house anymore because every house had to have a driveway, and not a gravel one! I eventually moved. guy across the street had a project antique jeep in his driveway that she got towed away...
if only people did the right thing the first time, instead of being selfish and trying to take advange of everyone else.
You are correct sir !
How do the people of that city feel about the city spending so much money on prosecuting a minor zoning infraction?
Excellent point!
Something that size is not "minor". What's so unclear.
I wonder who the piece of garbage neighbor is that made the complaint
Nasty jealous people
@Micheal Politicians are now getting in through dominion voting systems, they don’t have to please the people anymore they cheat to get in…
@@steelisthemeal You're projecting. Examine both properties. The complainant has a valid argument. The person in this video also has two boat docks. One of those is encroaching on the neighbor's property. Where is the proof they were told, years ago, LMFAO, by an inspector that everything was fine? And, talking is not a legal permit. It is obvious the complaining neighbor has enough money for any patio they want. So, this has nothing to do with jealousy or being envious. It is also obvious the people in this video believe they are entitled. Anyone, especially people with a house like that, knows they need permits to build.
this is outrageous. deputy director's answer should be used in court. how are homeowners supposed to follow a plan that is "it all depends"
you wonder what "it all depends" mean. usually in a situation like this I call bs. it depends on who you are and who you know, don't try to lie your way out.
You will find that many state and local laws and ordinances are subject to the opinion of the person enforcing them at the time.
@@suewiseley2724 Exactly.
@davidtherwhanger6795 truth!
Their opinion can make for an easy process or impossible process!
Selective enforcement
I hope this inspires people to start asking why anyone has such dominion over someone's supposed private property.
Because the US has well regulated and documented systems. The family is wrong and they dont get benefits because they are rich
This is scary.
If the inspector came out & said it's fine, then the city should not have come back at a later date and issued a stop work order.
Hopefully, this family wins the case.
They must have the proof of the "ok." If they do, they may be ok.
The only reason they came back is because a jealous neighbor kept calling them.
Talking v. legal valid paperwork/permit are not the same thing.
@@bme6949 Says who, you? LOL! Examine both properties. The complainant has a valid argument. The person in this video even has two boat docks. One of those is encroaching on the neighbor's property. It is obvious the neighbor has more than enough money to have any patio they want.
@@HermannTheGreat There is no proof. The people are lying because they feel entitled. No inspector is going to tell them they don't need permits. Just like the so-called reporter mentioned fences. Even before digging for anything, the municipality has to be contacted to have all lines marked and flagged.
This is why even where permits are not required. It’s a great idea to take tons of pictures of the entire construction process.
It should NEVER be this big of an issue getting a permit, after the fact.
My guess is that the neighbor has “friends” within the city.
Agree. This seems personal. The woman who works there, can’t clearly defined anything. So if she can’t, how can anyone rule on this. 🤔
You read my mind
EXACTLY
Your guess is 100% wrong. If that were the case, the so-called people in this video would have already lost.
Simply:
want to build;
make a plan and present it;
you may need a permit, or not, or more than one;
depending, it may not even be approved, at all.
BTW, the people in this video also have two boat docks, one of which is encroaching on the neighbors' property.
Ah. You are the neighbor.
It is so sad that you have neighbors that are this jealous of your beautiful patio.
@@DaisyDay.-pm2cf YOU have got to be the Peck's neighbor Karen+.
Ha ha......I fell for the Red Daisy recently added troll account, created specifically to antagonize. Next stop for Red Daisy......someone posting a video of a baby laughing......can't have that. LOL
@@DaisyDay.-pm2cf I should have known by your blinking green lights Justin, we don't have those here. It's pretty obvious that all parties in the video are wealthier than the norm, however, I am not envious.
It looks like the Peck's patio blocks the lake view of their neighbors. It doesn't take a genius to guess that they would be opposed.
@@mikebronicki8264 yeah youtube comment section is the bottom 50% of of the average person's intelligence.
Asking the government for permission to do something on your own property is not Freedom.
I have a tire and battery dump on my property and that’s my right!
If what you build cast a shadow on , or can spew smoke fumes or fire sparkle into your neighbour's property you should expect them to get help from the law.
@@enginerdy Is that sarcasm? Because rain will now drain into the water table as toxic water......which will become city drinking water. Runoff might make it's way into the ecosystem harming wildlife.
You benefit from living in a society and the rest of us follow laws/rules which protect or benefit you, so why not play along? Remember: *With freedom comes responsibility.*
The people voted this crap in, along with parking meters to charge you for using the road you paid for, thats why we have it!
Bet the person that reported them didnt get a permit for theirs.
Another VanMeter. Look at that property and OMG that entire patio set up is outstanding! Gorgeous, so relaxing with a tremendously awesome view. My first thought was that the complaint came from a jealous neighbor being petulant and petty. Unfortunately, the neighbor has inadvertently opened a giant can of worms. All of the neighbors who will be potentially affected by this situation should know who it is that has destroyed their peace!
😆 jealousy is at root of this case
@@KingdomQueen75 jealousy or...more to the story. This couple pissed off someone.
@@lindaharrell3916 Yeah, probably nearby. The first inspector said no problem. That should be all that needs be said.
Doesn't matter if the person reporting got a permit. This homeowner can't get away with it by racking up legal fees and calling the media.
I was a town manager for 6 years, I saw this too often, people trying to control their neighbors through the guise of regulations. Disgusting.
Sometimes the only way to STOP nosey neighbors match their harassment with yours. You should never just quietly take it up the ass, because then they will think they are right by harrassing you. I made my nosey neighbors from hell cooperate by collecting dirt on them and said if they continue I'll sue. And told them I don't want any trouble, just stay on your side of the fence and us on mine and we won't have problems. They even apologiesed and we didn't have any issues after that.
Yea, 1st time they said everything was good, they didn't need permits etc etc. Now it's an issue. I'm sure they would have gotten the necessary permits if they were told to ahead of time. That neighbor wouldn't let it go.
Vote them out of office and make new laws. Good luck
@@mg1617s1 wah wah wah waaaaaaaah
@@HANKHILLFORTXGOVERNOR fuck off troll
Update: The Pecks agreed to pay $2,000 in fines for not getting the required permits, and they also agreed to make slight adjustments to the patio. Where the structure is more than 18 inches off the ground, the city required the Pecks to move the patio back two feet away from their neighbor’s property line. The Pecks also adjusted the cinder block walls around the patio to allow spaces between some of the blocks. By doing so, the walls are instead defined as fences under city code. A wall is subject to strict building and zoning rules. A fence is not.
Thanks for the update, I was wondering what they must have been in violation for since this has become such a problem normally you just have to retroactively file for a plan and pay a small fine in a situation like this
Thank you for the update
Something tells me that they were grateful to pay the $2000 not to have to completely tear their beautiful patio down completely. Something also tells me their neighbor is mad as hell they didn't have to tear down their beautiful patio down completely. 😉
Why do people think they can build up to the last inch of the border line?
“Easily the worst experience of our lives” - May you continue to be blessed, Sir
right?? ..
Easier to go after homeowners than criminals.
This is civil. Totally different part of the judicial system.
You never own your property.
@@ljmac22 Still government, 🤡.
It’s all about the money
@@davebrown4841 you don't even understand what the word government means, or how or why it functions, yet you probably laughed yourself after posting the clown emoji.
I had a neighbor who over several years called the city on me for everything, water wasting because the wind would blow water on sidewalk, cracked sidewalk, tree trimming without a permit, not clearing brush behind my property, etc. His wife finally left him, forced him to sell his house.
an there is a lot people like him just full of hate
Had a guy named Andy Meesen (not joke please), who did the same to me.
I have the twin of your neighbor. I'm glad to hear they moved. It is exhausting.
Thank God
The great injustice in this life you dot get to pick your neighbors or your family. I have been lucky with neighbors but there is always one. I do not know about this case, but the worst is the neighbor that you do not get along with that has close connections they are willing to use with the city and county.
Why didn't the contractor get the necessary permits?
It’s sad we can’t build on OUR PROPERTIES!
That's a false statement. With permits you can. Do you want a neighbor to accidentally weaken a tree's root system, causing it to fall on your house in high winds? Or cause rain to flow onto your property like a creek during heavy rain, washing away your vegetable garden?
That administrator should be fined each time she fails to provide a clear answer on when a permit is required.
I agree! The answers were totallly ambiguous.
@@dolphinride5157 Bureaucrat Speak. Do you know bureaucrats work for the city? About 1/4 of them.
And didn't they say they had someone out who told them they didn't need permits? Sounds fishy to me!
I am the homeowner in this story. Thanks to everyone for your support. We had three separate inspectors come out and each said : No stop work orders, no permits needed, keep building. They documented that extensively in their reports and testimony. Wouldn’t you think that would be enough? Thanks again everyone, and PLEASE write an email to the City in support of us. 😊
So what she is really implying here is that the rule/bylaw is open to interpretation. That's ridiculous.
If the city spokesperson can't define what the law is, then the law should be declared null and void.
That is not that persons job. When you get a permit you go to the office and they look it up so that you can do work within the guidelines. Where I live the permit fee is economical and if you complete without problems most of the money is refunded after inspection.
@@jamesscherping2461where I live it is like a tax a percentage of what they will value it at when finished expensive and a few miles away it is one tenth for the same project frustrating.
Don't be dumb😂
The spokesperson doesn't define the law. The code and the courts do. They clearly violated the code and were trying to get away with something.
@@joevarga5982 If they can't define a violation until they "see" it, how did the owners clearly violate a code that no one can define?
It’s so beautiful! This patio increases the home value
Just as soon as I heard, this has been the worst experience in my life. I lost all sympathy.
When we bought our 110 year old home in Illinois property lines were identified. There was an addition that was 40 years old that was within the 5 ft required from the 7ft property lines. This was the first house on the block. A neighbor bought a house that was only 50 years old . She had it surveyed and the surveyor claimed we were on the property line and could have to remove our house. We went to county assessor and was told our place was right. The survey was from south to north and they went north to south and moved every lot 3 ft. Towards our house. The local inspector still said we were wrong. But county said we would have to take it to court to get it straightened out. After 25 years of living we sold it and left the shit hole town.
Omg!!
Holy Hannah, that is terrible! F, that is ridiculous! Sorry you had to deal with that
That’s why I’d never put any permanent structure next to my property line. Surveying mistakes happen sometimes.
Always obtain a survey of the property and know where your boundary markers are located. Any discrepancy that crops up can then be dealt with by a lawyer in court. Your house is the first built so your boundary markers are what has to be used when they resurvey the subdivision.
@David Halverson if only they did. We fought and argued but the way the new survey was done and town code official didn't like us they could do whatever they wanted. The town even had the original survey but said it was out of date. I've been in construction most of my life and never dealt with some much crap.
They had an inspector come out and they said no permits were needed. That should be enough to end this case.
Get it in writing
Should have had the inspector put his decision in writing. How will they prove a verbal clearance?
@@markseaman4750 same way one can prove their story is factual, it can' t be done.
@@dr.s4574 They should have gotten everything in writing, I live in rural Nevada on 40 acres no neighbors within a mile & I dont hammer a nail without checking with the bldg inspector to see if i need a permit or not!
Can you just think of how many landscaping contractors haven't pulled any permits?
If your gorgeous waterfront patio is the worst experience of your life you are unbelievably lucky.
I think it’s spending 250,000 in legal fees that they were referring to.
I’ve been in construction for 30 years. Live in San Francisco. I will not even bid a job without including permits…love them or hate them, they are part of the construction process. Shame on the contractor for running a job of that scope with out a permit. A retaining wall? Fire pit? Next to a lake? Really? Go after the contractor’s GL policy (if they even have it). I think there is more to the story the HO is telling us. Just because the neighbors did it without a permit doesn’t make it right. The cheapest bid isn’t always the best bid! Hard lesson to learn.
You nailed every single point.
^^ This!
I have had experience with contractors in your nasty city...all fucked in the head morons
100% right. I know many of our neighbors did work they should have gotten a permit for, but we still went and got one when it was time to build our fence. Not a huge deal.
I was curious why the contractor did not pull a permit. Seems pretty bog standard procedure, especially with a nice expensive project like this one. Sounds to me like someone tried to skip the rules and got caught. Contractor, or person.
Sounds to me like a neighbor got their nose out of joint & has a friend on the council to make the Peck's life miserable. Jealousy is a terrible thing
Bullseye!!! We are the homeowner by the way.😊
@@GeistGuy ohhh this was my guess too!!! Make sure as many people know exactly how much of their tax dollars are being used all because of this neighbor. Name and shame, my friend!!
@@GeistGuy Yeah it's always someone Jealous.
Agreed, it sounds to me like the biggest problem the Pecks had was that the neighbor ratted them out.
@@calicocritterscrafts886 did you forget to invite your neighbor over to enjoy your new patio?
A building inspector said no permits needed? Sounds unlikely. There is likely more to this story.
If "it's easily the worst experience of our lives" then you're doing pretty good. Be grateful.
How many wish they had $240k to defend a patio?
Yeah. I can tell they've never had any true hardships in life. Must be nice.
All laws must be clear otherwise that opens the door for corruption and abuse
Unfortunately laws are about interpretation, how do you think attorneys and judges are staying in business and doing so well even during COVID. And the better they are at twisting and turning the interpretation (lying) of said law, the more successful they become. There is no such thing as clear laws, because everyone's interpretation is a little different. So the attorney who can come up with the best BS interpretation wins.
Makes ya sick doesn't it.
MOST laws are intentionally vague on purpose so they can apply them for situations not originally intended.
@@frotobaggins7169 Your not wrong a lot of laws are like that when it would be easier to be concise and not be dumb like they didn't have a cup of joe and still get it passed because they thought it was a great idea at the time. I swear all of them need to be looked over by both Grammerly and a literature major.
@@jaystarr4174so what is the bs interpretation here? The plain language of the ordinance says patios above 18 inches. This is obviously not even remotely vague. The issue is one of enforcement.
The biggest problem here is the city can make any rules they want if they're jealous or if it fills their pockets!!!!😡🤬
How very cynical.
@@harrycrazy46 Thieving incompetent swamp rats don’t just live in DC !!
There is a published building code. These homeowners decided to do an end run around it, failed to get the permits required, and are now claiming that it's everyone's fault but their own. Nonsense. There's no way they didn't know that a project of this scope didn't require permitting and inspection. Attempting to blame a department employee who they claim gave them verbal approval, which is not a thing, is pathetic. No clue what the "jealous" comment even means. 😂
Duhhhhh yeah , & if selectively enforcing laws it has to pony up why in court.
sounds like an entitled self centered snowflake is getting upset that other people exist.
What the hell??!!! People can no longer can have a patio in their backyards??? “WOW”!!’
If it encroaches, done without permits, it's wrong. For this guy to say this is the worst thing that's happened to him in his life, shows a real sense of entitlement.
Did that city representative not say there is a clear answer as to when a permit is or is not required? That's insane. They need to have ordinances in place like every other city in the US that clearly state what is not allowed and what requires a permit.
The city should be held accountable since the inspector said they didn't need a permit! Should also be considered harrassment!
I'm sure that was never in writing.
And, where is the proof that was even said by anyone?
yea he no longer works here or no one would say that.
@@banjobenson9348 To begin with, I was too nice. The OP is complete nonsense, nonsense he got from the self-entitled liars in this video.
Talking means absolutely nothing!
What to build?
Make a plan;
present it to the proper city department;
a permit may be required, or not;
or, the plan may need multiple permits;
or, the plan may be denied.
There is no way anyone can convince me the people in this video did not know that.
@@philgar7786 Probably correct you know when you live in a commie city as to how govt is going to treat you ahead of time. thats why the left coast is losing so many people.
I'm certain they feel harassed and frustrated, but they live on a lake with a boat, that's hardly hell compared to what many people go through just to get by.
How on Earth did those people think that building that retaining wall on reservoir did not require a permit? It's right on the reservoir!!!!
The news trying to cast this as a "little known requirement" or just "extendeding a patio" is total BS. It's a beautiful patio, retaining wall, and lower patio, so an experienced builder must have built it, so he must have obviously known a permanent was required.
I bet this couple knows the owner of the new station.
Permits and future taxing issue halted a simple 10'x10' wood deck for a home entry for a disabled senior. Sooo I parked a pontoon boat for a deck. No permits needed to park a boat on her riverfront property! Much more versatile than a wood slab with its aluminum construction, built-in railings and storage seating.
The part that bothers me is the inspectors that came out didn't tell them they needed a permit.
Or so they claim. They don't have any proof of that.
Maybe just get a permit B4 building... It's a safety thing. And a 15 year old knows that, not to mention a homeowner with a million+ dollar home on geist.
They should have spent that $240k on ripping it up, not fighting something everyone in the US knows
@carolr7823 No, If you read about the case, the city inspector reports are very clear that they came out, inspected the property, met with the builders and this family, and said no permits were needed.
Sounds like a lie to me and they should have paperwork...That guy just did a silent violation on them...
This is another reason I’m retiring abroad. I’ve had it with state and local taxes and mindless petty bureaucrats. In California, I did over $200k in renovations to my backyard. I literally spent thousands on building permits. Additionally, my property taxes went up with each renovation.
Where do you plan on going? 🤔
@@galaxyglitterlatte4664 - I lived and worked overseas for 20 years…mostly Europe, Japan, South Korea, and Saudi Arabia. The Philippines will be my 43rd country.
😂
@@jdtravels5140so which country do you recommend to retire in?
They should gotten a permit and the builder should know that.
She has no answers! Sounds like the City is trying to nickle and dime homeowners!!
No really, who would expend 200K+ .... just bring the thing to code for 10K or less and that it
@@santy33143 It's not a code violation. Did you even watch the video? They're being told AFTER it's been built, AFTER the city inspector approved it, that it required a permit to be built. They would have to (potentially) Demolish it and REBUILD IT, after having a permit to do so.
If they were LUCKY, they MIGHT be allowed to pay a fine equal to or greater than the cost of whatever permits they allegedly required, but considering how much the city has invested in litigation, I highly doubt it.
It’s great to be SOOO free, right guys?!
and the people enforcing this probably complain about big government all the time.
just don't be ignorant of the laws and regulations of the land.
@@travelinman70 your own land should be your own. Besides the law of the land is the constitution, not a bunch of arbitrary codes.
@@amandasuppes6612 I want to turn my land next to a school into a superfund dumping site specializing in airborne toxic chemicals! 🥰
@@puppetmaster1403 fair point, lol. But this specific situation is silly, it doesn’t encroach on neighbors, it’s clearly all about revenue. Also, our air, water, and crops are already full of toxins lol.
"It's been easily the worst experience of our lives". I about died hearing that.
Life's tough in a 6,000 sq ft cabin on the lake with a $200k boat.
The moment they said that I lost all sympathy for them. They must live a charmed life if that's the worst experience of their lives. 🙄😂
@@theshadowfax239 Amen to all of this. What is being done to them is not OK, but they reek of privilege.
The humanity. 😢
Yeah, they lost me there.
Homeowners are willfully ignorant. I worked for the EPA and any project you do that affects/changes the water runoff onto other properties, sewers/drains, watershed, and waterways (lakes, ponds, rivers, creeks, etc) *NEEDS A PERMIT* Anything built on or near the water (lakes, ponds, rivers, creeks, etc) *NEEDS A PERMIT* which includes boat ramps, lake access, and retaining walls. *ANYTHING* built that changes the land gradiation needs a permit. *RETAINING WALLS* need permits. *FENCES and RAILINGS* need permits. Outdoor permanent structures like kitchen, BBQ pit, highbar tables needs a permit. *OUTDOOR STAIRS* need a permit.
The city had better start finding some of those answers before they end up on the wrong end of a class action law suit.
Sadly, there are no grounds if the code existed prior to the construction being underway.
@@hippiebits2071 I think you'll find that if the code is excessively vague, and is not applied uniformly, a court would likely find it to be null and void.
@Tim C I hope they will do a follow up on the outcome of this.
When you realize that you don't own your own property
Right
You never own your property, its always taxed, at least in Michigan.
Just think of all the taxes you've paid, on the money you used to pay your property taxes... 😃 If you "own" the property, get two years or so behind in annual taxes, in countless areas they can/do seize and sell, keeping All the proceeds of the sale. 😯 Have you ever thought about the #of sales, for one piece of property, the Twp./ County and State have had their hands collecting that money? How much land do we need to make our own State? 🤔😆
When you realize the "land of the free" is just a large tax ranch/slave plantation.
@@dustinabc maybe you would be happier in another country.
"When in doubt, pay us for a permit." How about I just keep all my outdoor property renovations easily movable so I can classify them as furniture?
Just look how beautiful. They should not be fined for beautification of our world!
Also the city stands to make money off the increased value of the property. Where I live the only inspections come from the bank, if you build out of pocket like we did on a couple places no inspections are required.. The only thing that needs a certified person is the installation of the septic system and the homeowner can get that certificate for his own place. Even the power company lets us put in our own meter base with the installation instructions they give us.
I’m surprised the contractor didn’t secure a permit. That’s been my experience for any kind of extensive work.
EXACTLY, jeez that deck a little more than some treated timber coming off the back of the house. Case of self-entitlement?
@@ChrisBruhn I said the exact same thing. They are so close they are even blocking access.
How they could think that was ok is beyond me.
@@triggabun Not blocking anything. It's their property and their dock access. It's all private property there.
@@ericgardner5548 Actually no. You can own beach front property but that doesn't mean you can build up to the water.
Same with houses. You can't build up to the street.
@tterie no shit Sherlock. It's called easements, And as far as beach property it depends on the state. But they did neither. So your comment is irrelevant.
Never fails to have a Karen or a Chad to complain.
kevin
Karen or Scotty to complain
We don’t complain.. Scotty Jett etc sounds more suitable..
@@6foot7sun 😆 no complaints or snitching on my end
@@jazziez6467 or jazz
Building anything(of that size) near a lake, especially out of concrete, usually need permits. The one to blame is the initial inspector that told them "no permits were needed". Had the Pecks gotten the proper permits, this wouldn't be an issue.
As soon as I saw that patio- I noticed the retaining wall. Where I live, retaining walls over 18” have to get a permit. That has a four foot wall. If it’s not built properly, it will end up in the lake. That said, when an inspector said ‘It’s all good.’, that was a major error on that point.
An engineer would probably be required to get the permit approved.
@@user-ln7of9gs4s Yup. And that’s gonna cost ya! That’s why people build decks on stilts on the edges of lakes. They require a lot less engineering to build safely.
Builders of any kind are supposed to know State and County regulations before performing any construction.
Exactly. Their builder messed up, and should have sought a permit.
Yes!! The entire time I was thinking this.
No.
The patio was repaired. There was an existing patio. The builder made it better.
(Edit) The inspector told them they were fine.
The city can't even explain if a permit is needed or not..
$240,000 against the unlimited wallet of the govt with tax dollars to use. And this is all due to the nosy neighbor. It’s all so stupid. Just fine them and move on the waste of time and money by the city is ridiculous.
They has $250k to spend on legal fees? Holy rich person entitlement batman.
Are you jealous? People make money, you can do it too. How is he entitled because he has money to spend on legal fees?
Why do we let government do this to us?😩🇺🇲
When you ask the city representative if you need a permit and they say "no" make sure you record it.
Agree..
it is called a "not objection certificate".. it is not a permit to do something, but a certificate that they dont oppose what you are doing.. if need permits have to get them..
These people really are lucky that a patio is the worst thing that has ever happened in their lives.
Man that is crazzzy. Lord have mercy. Now I’m gonna have to go get a permit for my front porch.
What confuses me is that they had to hire somebody to do this job. Usually a contractor pulls the permits for you. The fact that they assume they could build something this big and intricate without a permit blows my mind
This is where I'm at! No one is talking about this. Why didn't they go physically see for themselves BEFOREHAND what if any permits they would need?! 🤦🏾
Maybe the contractor was also told they didn't need a permit? Even the city lady couldn't say when a permit is or isn't needed and it's her job!
That doesn't look like a bootleg job, so assuming the contractor was legit, this whole situation is petty. The city needs maybe fine them and move on, or send out inspectors for ALL the properties with improvements. This seems targeted 🤷♂️
Everybody is disregarding that the fact that the first inspector that came said they were fine the way they were.
@@cybersal7 That's what they claim at least. Who knows what was really said "It looks ok but I need to go back to the office and check the zoning".
@@juelzm149 because they think theyre SPECIAL that they were even allowed to HAVE lakefront property in the first place the city oughta kick em the phuck out is what they oughta do
Government at it again. Criminal all of them. Rules as they go.
They spent $200K on a patio and never bothered getting a permit? That’s on them
If this is the worse thing you’ve ever experienced in your life you’ve had a nice life
If they tell you that you do not need a permit...demand one...or get it in writing that it isnt required. Sounds like, from this city rep being interviewed, doesnt know her head from her a$$.
My mom used to say, they don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.
Aww 🥰 where did you got that fantastic smile from?
Your right however, it still won't work. These people are TYRANTS and we continue letting our government rule us. Look what the Republicans have allowed to have happen. Our ballot box stuffing president (and all his minions including people who denied access for inspection of the vote counting) should all be on trial for TREASON. But no, they will be allowed to come to your house very soon as IRS agents take not only your rights (which you allow them to do) but they will take every dime they can get their hands on.
The patio looks amazing. In a sane world, the ruling should be: does this harm anyone, does it harm the community, does it harm the neighbor, does it harm the environment? The answer is obviously NO. These are are just vindictive, insane bureaucrats.
I’m not sure about environmental laws there. But there may be rules about building so close to water
It harms the neighbor’s Karen wife because she doesn’t have one
But applying for a permit is how all that is determined. Taking an inspector's word for it vs getting it in writing that no permits are needed is not what a responsible person does.
Getting permits is wise on even small projects, because it documents the date of construction with the city/county. Then when stricter codes are created, the gov can't come back and fine you for breaking a code that didn't exist at the time.
An inspector literally came on their property and told them no permit was necessary THEN issued cease work orders AFTER constitution's over? Someone needs FIRED. Then this couple should be given a waiver.
I like how they waited till they were partway through to ask if they needed a permit, and then didn't even really ask the right entity.
The demise of private property by bureaucrats - maddening
Yes and no! This example is crazy and an unusual situation. just because you own property doesn’t give you the right to do whatever you want on it! That used to be common sense and respect to your fellow neighbor but unfortunately those are things that are lost these days
@@NipItInTheBud100 The fellow neighbor doesn't make your mortgage payment, respect is earned, not granted to whiny sniveler's that don't mind their own business, when tables are turned you lose.
BECAUSE of your NEIGHBORS
Don’t California my Indiana 🥴🤣🤣
@@Group_Anonymous yeah? If Indiana is so great then why do I see so many people with Indiana plates working in other states!!
I got 99 problems, and a millionaire's foolishness with his money AIN'T ONE OF THEM ...
🙌 Thank you!!!! These must be other rich people ragging on the neighbor who reported it. 🙄 Why tf is this even a story? 🤦♀️
@@acgillespie Jealous !!!!!! Go back to watching Jerry Springer !!!!
Hi 🤡, the government goes after the average folks just as much. Good try democrat cheerleader.
It’s a story to warn other riches that hiring illegal alien owned businesses or illegal alien workers, will result in more than the structural cost legally owned companies. I’m glad riches are finally being held accountable for hiring their modern day slaves, aka illegal alien cheap labor cost. If more start paying for hiring them, they start deporting themselves when riches stop using them over American own company. Easy solution to this problem, stop using illegals for slaves, hire American and pay some of them riches to Americans to be used in America to be taxed. Instead of the majority of the money being sent to the country they invaded from. The majority of the money never hits economy to be taxed, causing more taxes for citizens. Than 90% of the workers wives claim welfare due to no taxable income since they are paid under the table, causing citizens to pay more taxes to support them and their families, while watching job after job go to these illegals just to save a few thousand. Scum riches deserve this every time they hire illegals.
You sound so jealous, but thanks for taking time out from your many problems to let people know how you feel. We were all wondering. 😝😂😆🤣😆😆
Contractor should have known that a permit was required.
Should've got a permit. Ask the question before you break ground.
So because of a neighbors petty complaint, the city is looking for ways to extract money from the city folks because of their vague information and enforcement. Almost seems intentional, being the inspector said to carry on.. Leave these people alone. Leave the city alone but from this day forward, make the already permit requirement crystal clear and move forward. And maybe pay these people back for all or at least some of their legal fees. Their patio looks super relaxing. A shame they have to worry constantly.
My guess is the City initially didn't care and the neighbor dug through city code to find something to screw his neighbor over.
Jealous neighbour are just bad in any city or in any country for that matter.
I always "make that step" and the ONE time I was told 'good to go' there was a problem. Cities do not train adequately, Get Everything in writing if they say that no permit is needed.
The rules have to be made clearer, but I wouldn't spend $240,000 fighting for an ugly patio.
A little misleading, most scenarios you can file for a permit afterwards and get approved. If they are being ordered to tear it down it is because they have a violation or two.
It is just ridiculous that this is even a problem, but I can't feel sorry for someone that can spend 240,000 just to defend a patio. Its all about money to the city, thats all, and obviously this guy has it to throw away.
Hallelujah! I couldn't agree more. They aren't going to win this, they need to put their little ego in their back pocket, tear it out and do it right. I'm not saying I agree with the city but to spend that kind of money to argue it? Ridiculous.
Jealous?
Be a sheep. Give in even after you’re told that the job it’s OK. If necessary, I think there should be a go fund me to support this homeowners lawsuit. Between the time of being told by the inspector that it was fine, and the three tickets written something happened, and that was a jealous neighbor, whose property line was not even affected.
A Kevin and his Karen wife. How many hundreds of other homeowners have the same exact problem but yet it’s not being addressed. There’s no fairness when you get a Karen for a neighbor.
Unfortunately, if it wasn’t for richer folks pushing back against government overreach, government would run all over everyone- since the little guy can’t afford to challenge the government
Always do your own research, never take the word of city employees without verifying their answers!!
from someone in europe, this is pure madness, what a fucking circus over a simple patio. in other countries, building this would be a non-issue with no permit
As several others have mentioned, why did the initial inspector say that they didn't need a permit? They did inquire about necessary permitting. Isn't that due diligence??
She is amazingly clueless, fire everyone and rebuild the department.....
Its the entire country bro, every institution
😮 $200,000 in legal fees? There is no way a lawyer has worked 800 hours on this case.
They're billing $300-350+ an hour now to "communicate" through email and write letters.
And it time to stop..too much $$..you can make it fit the law.
Clear rules are needed. Little house built for that money..
Grandfather rule
they could have ripped out and redone the entire project with a permit for 20-30% of the cost of these legal fees. the courts should assess whether the property is structurally sound and if so, just fine the people for no permit. any part of the structure on other's property, tear down. i think the city then needs to clarify their rules and enforce everywhere. if it hasn't been enforced until now, that is a precedent and should undermine the city's case.
Home owner chose to not pull permits or expect the GC. And is now paying the price. Ounce of prevention.
Not going to waste my time feeling outraged for wealthy people who describe a permit dispute for their waterfront patio as the worst thing that ever happened to them and then go on to spend 200k fighting it.
I agree. He said this is the worst experience of his life. They’re so privileged. This story is so out of touch.
Sounds like a major PIA but "Its been easily the worst experience of our lives" ?? Is it really worse than when grandma died? Grandpa, Uncle Joe? You've had pretty darn good lives! LOL!
It's time the people tell the government to stay out of our lives
I mean why do we need any laws, ordinances, building codes and rules anyway?!
You should definitely do that. 😂 But don't call when your house is on fire or there is a giant sinkhole in the road to your house or a flood or tornado or...
You will be the first to complain when the government does not do anything to help you, like repairing the road to your home, responding to your 911 call, helping you out with a neighbor who decides to build a racetrack in their back yard….the list goes on.
Democrats are for more government. A fact.
It really is the builder’s responsibility to know when a permit is required and get a permit- if they are licensed to do business in that county or town or city they should be familiar with “the rules”. This county could just “ grandfather” the patio since it was a replacement & make their “rules” more clear in the future. I wonder why this family is being targeted. In my community we are trying to get a hard copy of “the rules” since they seem to be broken all the time.
neighbor who complained has friends in court that lines their pockets
The premise of your post is flawed because many people build their own deck or patio. It really isn't that difficult and I would do either myself, without using a contractor.
It isn't eligible for grandfathering since they changed the dimensions. It pretty much has to be an exact replacement for that sort of thing.
So sorry, I stand with you as a homeowner myself
Architectural technologist here. The owner is responsible to apply for permits before going ahead with construction. Just work with the city beforehand to make sure you know the bylaws that apply. You’re gambling otherwise.
Most of that patio could be considered a retaining wall, with a patio close to it.
That's what I was thinking-retaining wall or bulkhead
@@bonnieinla you need a permit for a retaining wall as well. What GC in his right mind would do a project of this scope without building permits. Also, it appears to have been built in the set-back and I could see multiple building code violations relating to safety.
This was the repair of an existing patio with improvements
Yes, a retaining wall that close to the shoreline can adversely effect the neighboring properties, causing water to encroach on them more than if the shore had not been hardened next to it. More a problem on the ocean, but still can be a problem on a lake also, due to boat wakes and wind waves.
you want the permit, but you can answer when you need or do not need a permit.
Not pulling the proper permits falls on the architect, builder and the homeowner. A project as large as shown on this report, especially on the waters edge should always require approval from the community. Who do they think they are? Dan Snyder?
That is an amazingly beautiful patio! Hope the family wins this. What a shame if it’s destroyed.
OH MY GOSH! "When do folks need a permit and when do they not need a permit?"
"Unfortunately, that's not clear."
I don't see how they have a legal leg to stand on.
Those neighbors should not get away with causing all this trouble & causing that family to spend all that 💲.
Clearly, the next door family is f*cked up, & jealous of all the gatherings this family has with people who love them.
Here's a thought, why not call and ask. FFS, it ain't hard.
I think I spent $65 for my permit in Wisconsin, which is a lot cheaper than $240,000, and I put a few things on it I was thinking about, but never did. The permit is good for a while. The city where I live is ridiculous on many things, so I try to find out all I can. When I bought my house, I thought at last I can do what I want, rather than when I was renting, but.... oh no... it is like living where there is an HOA.
If you're going to build anything, get a permit. It's that simple. If someone tells you you don't need a permit, get it in writing.
Its the owners and the builders responsibility to find out if they need a permit or not. Many waterfront property owners are expanding into the sensitive estuary at the edge of their property without a permit.
Wait, what, they were told by an inspector they didn’t need a permit then get hit for not getting a permit? Isn’t it also on the contractors to know and comply with all codes?
Permits were for compliance of building and safety codes but they have become a means for revenue generation with increased fees, special secondary permits, phase in process inspection fees, site visit fees, and of course a means to increase your property taxes for minor improvements and upgrades.
Anytime you are getting ANY construction to your property no matter WHERE you live it is wise to check on building permits. Since there are so many people who would be affected by this issue I would think that all _potential_ property owners who would be affected should petition their politicians to rescind this ordinance.
These guys are acting quite smug considering they definitely knew they should have brought the patio/kitchen plans to the the city and asked if a permit was needed before they started the renovation... they just didn't want to pay the permit fees and they thought they were too smart to get caught. (You can be sure if their neighbour built a loud obnoxious party patio right next to their quiet lakefront property, they would be all up in their face too.)
I am the homeowner in this story. We are not smug, we've been harassed by the City for six years! We just want our lives back. Please send an email of support to the City.
@@GeistGuy I am very sorry for all the headaches and expense you guys are experiencing over this. It is a stupid ordinance and it makes me sick. It seems that your local officials know even less about their own rules than the homeowners. This inability to define their own laws alone should have resulted in a dismissal of the complaint. As I said you should have checked in advance to see if permits were required, but from the response of the female official in the video I doubt that they could have given you a satisfactory answer at the time if you had.
@@ItsMe-yv9jd the city told them they didn't need a permit.
That pissed off neighbor feeling like a champ right now
You always need permits. Don't build until you have file permits. That's like building 101
I'm not in your city -- or even your time zone -- but where I live, the purpose of a permit is to ensure the work is done to code. When my city finds that work was done without a permit, there is a process to correct that, which does not cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. The point is to ensure safety and that structures are not infringing on the rights of others -- it's not about feeding government bureaucracy.