Alright Bobby, you are always on the Ball every time...But, I have to Disagree this time. Having Both, and also saying I love my MT for the same reasons you stated, but oh man does the MT lose big here. The Looseness of the joints alone says it all, then the unsightly back kibble and the unplayable nature fiddlyness and lastly the similar Pricing. DS is better than MT which is better than TT. The Perfect SC is the DS with MT red Paint with TT Asseccerries...
I'm not denying that DS is better, I think it's overall the best Starscream. My Meteor isn't overly fiddly or loose though. The only gripe I have is the wings come unpegged and get in the way too often. I genuinely prefer the height, torso, feet, null rays, and transformation of MT. Everything else DS wins easily.
I'm not Hating MTs efforts, actually there are a lot to like with Meteor. I have SS, G2 SS and the Acid Storm and they all have the fiddly crotch plate, the loose waist, loose knees, unpegging wings, and liquidy tail fins. With more rachets and tighter tollorences I would love MTs mold just that much more, but As Is looks good not play good and I want both.
@@passionnotparked9099 I've only got Meteor. I've heard the QC was inconsistent. Mines pretty well broken in and all the joints function acceptably. Yeah, the crotch plate is a bit wobbly though lol. We'll have to wait and see how the DS effort is holding up in a few years. Looks well built so hopefully fine.
Here are my biggest take-aways: “MakeToys wins a lot of the other kinda less collector-based categories…. If you want a cartoon accurate Starscream in spite of how this VS turned out, get the DS. The MT is not trying to be cartoon accurate, it’s trying to be cartoon realized.” I just realized watching SDS with a cup of coffee has become my adult version of watching Saturday morning cartoons with a bowl of Frosted Flakes.
When Make toys make Downbeat it's was awesome it's my favourite version of Jazz and I think it's every collectors favourite because it's cartoon accurate but when they make Mateor now they saying they trying to be cartoon realised😳
@@RonLorLeona Maketoys Downbeat is an awesome figure. However, it is considerably more cartoon accurate to Jazz than the Meteor mold is to the Seekers. What I find interesting is that both molds are 4-years old and Downbeat still fits in with the current MP aesthetic while the Seekers do not. Seems like there may have been some confusion as to what direction MT was going even back then. The Seeker mold was good for its time. The Downbeat mold was great for its time. … but it too will be replaced on my shelf the minute Fanstoys drops FT-48 Jive.
The Maketoys was $80 cheaper than the Deformation Space?!? Where the heck are you buying your toys, Bobby? There's no way I was able to get Maketoys for $50!
I recommend you do a video on worst and best transformations. The DS is definitely up there for worst transformation, as is Toyworld Jazz and Badcube Trailblazer/Hoist for me.
Yes I did wonder about that price comparison as well. Not sure what Bobby is using as a basis for it because he may well have got howling meteor cheaper from dealer making him an offer because across the board from what I can tell from showz, bbts, tfsource, kapowtoys, and omega lock the price differences are negligible. If Bobby got a good deal on howling meteor then fair play but I think most people aren't going to be in a position to see a difference in price between the two, and generally from what I could see the ds price was generally cheaper but only by a few dollars/pounds etc. Its worth noting that bbts and tfsource don't seem to stock deformation space so couldn't tell what they would price it as but seems as they sell maketoys for higher than showz I would assume they would sell the ds at a higher price point.
Omg. It actually looks like you shrank and then blacked out the MT head. I could no longer take the comparison seriously. I know you didn't do that because unfortunately I have him.
I paid $120 for Meteor years ago and $135 for DS recently. The reissue for Meteor is actually more expensive. I think you need to correct the $80 statement, and recommend tie them out on price.
Yeah this is my only complaint, currently for me $135 for MT or $140 for DS, still takes it (if you are that much of a penny pincher,) but where that $80 is coming from I'll be damned if I know.
Agreed, not sure where he gets the price difference. Both are for sale right now and they are about the same. Not an $80 difference by any stretch of the imagination.
You can get a second hand Meteor for next to nothing on ebay. I just did it a couple weeks ago. I get we generally talk in msrp but that's not realistic.
@@GibDozer1 Why isn't MSRP realistic? Maketoys has a Howling Meteor reissue coming and the price is $135-150. At best Howling Meteor is the same price as Crimson Wings and usually it is more expensive, especially from U.S. retailers who are charging $150 for the reissue and $140 for Crimson Wings. Used is used and new is new, and just because you can buy a used copy for less doesn't make MSRP irrelevant.
@@GibDozer1 I looked on uk ebay. Struggling to find one at that price. Also surely you compare new with new or 2nd hand with 2nd hand when you're marking them against price.
@@TheWolfmansgotnards I don't even look at new prices on figures that old unless it's a deep sale. The best deals on Meteor were likely 2-3 weeks ago as many were already off loaded on the secondary here. Prices got down to 60-75$ range. I bought mine in a lot with 2 MP11s that I'll eventually sell off. Paid 150$ shipped. After I sell TC and SW I expect to have less than 50$ in Meteor. 75$ would be my max for the figure. Honestly it needs new head and hands to be presentable(imo), so you've gotta factor those costs in too. Anymore than 75$ just keep MP11 or save up for DS.
i gotta be honest, i love the DS transformation. ive done it like 10 times and i dont have any paint rubbing cause i let it sit and cure for a few days
I'm rolling with modded MT and MP11s for my collection. I've seen people bitch about DS transformation, but it doesn't look all that hard to me. Most people that complain about transforming their figures don't enjoy puzzles. The "complex transformation" is one of the things that made it hard for ME to pass on DS out of the gate.
Honestly, anybody who has held these in their hands knows that DS is the better figure. These "quantitative" comparisons don't really get at anything meaningful. Like the comparison between Takara and DS articulation is pointless if Takara wins articulation when it has issues standing up (like mine does due to weak knee ratchets). Or the price; how can you compare the price of a figure that came out years ago, before the price hikes, with one that came out recently. Obviously, the DS is more expensive since it came out during the pandemic and the associated supply and inflation issues. Even so, it's the same price as the Maketoys reissue. What's the point of measuring these things? Also, for most people, things like sculpt, articulation and paint are vastly more important than a $30 price difference. Anybody who is thinking of DS, just get it. I have all three and It's a lot better than either Maketoys or Takara. Also, how can the Takara tie with DS, lose to Maketoys, but then Maketoys beats DS? At the end, if you just look at these from the front at a distance, and don't plan on playing with them, don't bother upgrading from Maketoys. Otherwise, upgrade.
For a lot of people, myself included, scale is the issue. I have MP36 but prefer modded Despotron as Megatron in my display. I can't accept Starscream being bigger than my Soundwave and eye to eye with Megatron. I do think DS Starscream is "the best", but it's not best for my shelf.
Wholeheartedly agree with the way the hips look on the MT Meteor figure. The shape and sleekness of it unmarred by any flaps and screws just look amazing.
I was surprised that Make toys had a cheaper price than DS. I don't know exactly how much it originally sold for but you said it was $80 cheaper than DS, so it sold for $50? Dang! I missed out on that one. I could have sworn it was going for $150 or so. I almost went for the Maketoys when it was announced. I just couldn't believe they did that to the wings when there was absolutely no practical reason to do so.
Price is debatable, I paid around 130$ for DS and I do not think the Maketoys back then was any cheaper, not by a significant amount, anyway, I might be wrong tho, can't really remember.
It's Good Review..... you can hear the Bias, but that's BS, he can't help himself & to be fair, when you prefer one over another, it's tough to remain unbiased. I have MP-3, MP-11, Meteor & DSCW - I Disagree with BS - Hey I like it, I WIN :) ....... Here's why - I enjoyed MP3, felt MP11 was an improvement but when Meteor came out, I was impressed by several reviews & picked him up, however by the time I got him, 2nd run, Pics of DSCW was making it's first rounds. I really liked Meteor when I received him. Other than his Small Head, he was a definite improvement over 3 & 11. I also felt he was as good as 52, even though I didn't have a 52 to compare with, I did watch several reviews to come to my opinion. Then DSCW came in.......... & that changed again...... I was Thoroughly IMPRESSED TOP to BOTTOM, WINGTIP to WINGTIP. Yes, the Transformation is not the Best but there are worse ones out there. He replaced Meteor, which I still enjoy, just as is Starscream, has become my Number 2 ;) I get asked - Am I going to pick up MP-52? Only if I decide to get the KO. WHY? B/c - A) I find Takara/Hasbro to have OUTRAGEOUS as in PRICE GOUGING PRICE POINTS, B) I find for the PRICE the QC is lacking & for me, when A Company such as Takara/Hasbro or FT wants to PRICE GOUGE then I EXPECT PERFECTION & my opinions get harsher b/c of it. C) *BIG Reason - I find 52 to be HIDEOUSLY DISPROPORTIONATE all around - from thin thighs to overly huge calves, to MASSIVE BOBBLE HEAD - to Barrel Chest / Bulbous Canopy- a waist swivel would have been nice - his arms look abnormally small, sure he comes with some cool stuff but that's not enough of a reason to validate spending my HARD EARNED $ on it when there are so many other NEGATIVE DETRACTIONS to it When DSCW came out, it reminded me of when Transform Element released their Prime, putting MP44 to shame for less than half the cost. MS Light of Justice was also an EXCELLENT Alternative to 44. Anyways...... It pays dividends for the average consumer to watch as many reviews and opinions as possible before they pull the trigger on a purchase. It has saved me $..... but I have also missed out b/c I waited to long to make that decision........ a la...... just got my Meteor when DSCW was being teased.
@@rinzler9171 He did? BS (Quote) - "It just WINS little Categories here & there, that you are not looking for ....." Deformation 4 MakeToys 6 Did you watch the same video I did? He thought it was going to be a slaughterhouse for DS...... so if he likes DS that much then how is it he praises MakeToys & it sneaks out the win? Also...... just imo - I DO NOT think the 52 is any more cartoon accurate than say DS or Make. Sure they all have their strong points, but is one "More" Cartoon Accurate over the others? I DO NOT believe so. Take the height for instance, there are probably just as many cells that show Starscream close to or at Soundwave's height, just below Megatron's as there are some that show him shorter. You CAN NOT rely on the Sunbow height chart b/c the Animation never stayed true to it either, it's just a reference.
mmmh, Meteor got points for negligible stuff, like gimmicks just for the Megatron strangling head, and for price, which is debatable as I think they both costed pretty much the same, in the end it is clear DS is the superior product, and that is also normal as Meteor is what, 5 years old now? The only think i like better on the MT is the red paint on the body, I am not really fond of the matte look of DS
@KoolDreAgassi I'm pretty sure Howling Meteor was $140~150 at release. I remember because of how much more expensive it was than Galaxy Meteor which was $100~110.
Thanks for doing this one Bobby. Although I sold maketoys thundercracker and skywarp, I had to keep their starscream but now I think it’ll stay in jet mode where it shines most and DS will be my bot mode. Now what to do about the Takara hmmm. If I where to keep meteor in bit mode though, I’d definitely put the head from takara prime on it.
The term I like for MT's approach is Cartoon "Inspired". It is clearly the cartoon character, but not beholden to it exactly. Of course that leaves a lot more to subjective judgement. I've never liked the look of the vast majority of MT's Re:Master figures. Honestly my decision right now is between Deformation Space and Zeta. MT and Takara were never considerations for me.
I have to be honest and say that as soon as I saw that you where going to compare these two I knew that the Maketoys was going to win. I believe a comparison between these TF action figures can't be objective and I know you prefer the Maketoys (otherwise you would have told us you where going to change your MP seekers set for the DS one and you haven't) so it was easy to predict the Maketoys victory. The main subjectivity in these comparisons isn't even in the way we divide the points but the way we think about each category in itself. Some ppl think a transformation is at it's best when it's fun and enjoyable while others think that the best possible transformation is one that is able to keep the accuracy between the two modes. If we don't agree that accuracy is important (some prefer cartoon accuracy others prefer stylized looks) then that disagreement will come first and we wont be able to agree when it comes to the transformation. With stylized looks the engineering can be a bit more forgiving because you can change the look to fit the transformation but if you're trying to achieve the best accuracy possible the engineering will become a bit less forgiving and that will affect the transformation. What I meen is that in the end most of these categories are completely subjective so TF action figures who are trying to achieve completely different things shouldn't be competing with each other, it's just a matter of which one will suit your needs and tastes better. If the Maketoys is trying to achieve a more stylized look than the DS who is clearly trying to be as accurate as possible we shouldn't be comparing these two. If they are both trying to be as accurate to the g1 one cartoon look as possible... DS utterly destroys Maketoys since the later only wins in the scale department and even then that is only in some episodes. Thanks for the comparison Mr. Skullface.
Love your videos Mr. Skullface agree with you 99% of the time but not this time. Just got my Deformation Starscream and its glorious. The head alone on the Maketoys Starscream kills it 4 me.
Very interesting. Thanks for doing it. I'm glad the Maketoys won - not because it's the one I own (although it is!) but because it proves A beats B beats C beats A is possible and opens up the conversation on vs type videos a bit more. I'd love to see - after they finish the coneheads, of course ;-) - Maketoys revisit their original seekers with upgrade kits. Wing fillers are already being included with the coneheads so that's dealt with. They already have a retooled C-clip mechanism so the parts to retrofit that onto the original three should be achieveable. A replacement chest with angleable shoulder vanes and maybe the concealed missiles would be nice. The closeup in this review does do a great job highlighting the shortcomings of the head sculpt. Then, perhaps, some improved hands and a coronation set?
@@YakBat yeah but it would be nice for their early adopters to be able to benefit without buying a full new figure, imo. I'd imagine EX did have the new C-clip, though - didn't they implement this change from their rainmakers onwards?
@@TrypticOwen huh not sure what happened to my original response to this, but the c-clip issue is fixed on the reissue, and you can still buy the wing fillers separately. There some for sale right now on eBay.
Some of the points mt got should be worth 1/2 POINTS 😂, i like the transformation on ds , i use the 1 joint to move the wing out the way, no clearance issues for me.
Some, but sone should be worth2 points(imo). Altmode and transformation are half the toy for me lol. Obviously a great bot mode is worth the other 50%. MT isn't a bad figure by my measure. Beating it in any category(let alone multiple)is nothing to lament.
Facts. It's so vibrant and premium looking. I wish the DS had that red paint job or something close to it. It might have done well to elevate that figure more in the looks department even thought it's accurate af. But paint always makes a figure look a lot better, which is why it was so sad to have to replace the MT with the DS in the collection.
As I was one of the peeps asking for this, before I ultimately went with DS due to having a chance to compare both in person, I thank you nonetheless. Funny you mention DS's not needing wing fillers, they just revealed a wing filler set that streamlines the back, which I personally will be getting and figured I share since I haven't heard any reviewer mention them yet. Anyways great video, appreciate the hard work you put in for us fans.
I think the best thing about this is how well that make toys has held up comparative to his descendant per se. You can see elements of all of the starscream's in the DS. I own both and I paid about the same price for both of them.
I ended up getting the starscream head from the MP-44 and it works well on the maketoys body. Good enough for now. But I might end up going in on the DS skywarp/thundercracker, so I might end up getting the DS starscream eventually anyway.
My MT is pretty heavily modded. It's on TFW under the same name. I considered going with the MP44 head, but I love the stoic "warrior" look of MP11s head on MT body. I think MT mades really good bodies, but the headsculpts always sucked(imo). I have Despotron and MP36 and I vastly prefer Despo with the 36 head to either one.
TBH I think being able to completely distend DS's neck so that _any_ Megatron can throttle him without having to replace the entire head AND the hand on MakeToys' Megatron (which you would have to actually own) is a better gimmick. And I wouldn't give MT the point on price either, the only way to get it significantly cheaper was preorder.
Bobby your statement on price is wrong. DS was $130 including shipping for me. MT was $120 including shipping. Also… you can’t find a MT Meteor that cheap anymore. I understand you’re comparing at launch, but when one is 5+ years out of stock, the CURRENT price should be taken into account I feel.
Ha, winning bc of the Megatron head, which is an outdated gimmick, and price, which honestly isn't true is no real win. Let's be honest nobody likes that MT head and everybody is selling theirs without buyers already. I do have MT's bc I don't want to make the switch, but we all know the DS is the best of the three
Nice! The one thing I wish DS came with (or the MT too, for that matter) is some hole-fillers for the biceps where the null rays plug in. When I unplug them, I'm left with these big holes on both arm that just look pretty unsightly. Besides that, I love the DS. I have both. Thanks for the vid and all the work you put into your channel! Have a great day!
I think the DS could (height-wise) go well with the Toyworld coneheads since they are too tall compared to the mp-11 mold. Aesthetically the DS would go well with the Takara coneheads since they were far more "toony" than any other seeker set. For what that is worth... it definitely shows they we have a LOT of seekers (between official and 3rd party) that don't really go together for one reason or another.
Regardless of which is the winner I think these are easily the best 2 starscream figures to date. The only reason I decided to get the new Takara starscream is that I'm not convinced that maketoys will finish their coneheads (although for whatever reason they've managed to put out a yellow seeker and a green seeker instead of the last 2 coneheads but I digress), and I'm not sure that DS will do any more seekers at all. This DS starscream is nice but having him as a one off is more of a novelty than a plan. My coneheads don't have to match my seekers but I would prefer the 3 seekers all be the same general aesthetic, and the 3 coneheads be the same general esthetic. And I do have the 3 maketoys seekers, and dirge, but of course the only conehead set to date besides toyworld are the absolutely garbage-built original Takara units - and I'm not sure who's going to do them again, other than Takara again.
Wow very interesting turn out. I have the Takara and love it but I really might try and pick up a maketoys just to give it a feel, and the jet looks amazing. Another great video Bobby!
Nice vid! Thanks Bobby. I have all three and I like MT very much until I saw the heads of the newer two. Can’t unsee how bad the head sculpt is and MTs version just ruins any shelf it’s on. Need an upgrade to keep in robot mode or a flight stand and relegate to alt mode lol. Some categories are more important and head sculpt counts for more.
Couldn't agree more! I'm sticking with my heavily modded MT as I definitely prefer the slimmer torso and smaller price tag to DS. Without a head transplanting(and hands tbh) the MT looks awful to me.
IDK about 80$, but they were going very cheap on ebay a couple weeks ago. Several selling in the 65-75$ range. The culling may be over by now, I imagine the price has already begun stabilizing.
The front skirts on the DS are made to go up one more click. It is a tough joint, but I have done it several times on mine and there is no stress marks or sign of future breaking. Forcing it is not for the faint of heart, but the full articulation is there. Just letting everyone know...
Silicone shock oil makes this figure so much easier to manipulate. Personally use Traxxas myself. Also lets not forget that the legs have that extra joint at the hip to allow for more dynamic posing.
Love my MakeToys Seekers. Kinda wanna buy the DS to have as an alt mode and support them for future releases versus paying for an overpriced “official” MP.
![Oh no... [Not STARSCREAM Transformers Review - DS-01 CRIMSON WINGS]](/img/n.gif)
Alright Bobby, you are always on the Ball every time...But, I have to Disagree this time. Having Both, and also saying I love my MT for the same reasons you stated, but oh man does the MT lose big here. The Looseness of the joints alone says it all, then the unsightly back kibble and the unplayable nature fiddlyness and lastly the similar Pricing. DS is better than MT which is better than TT. The Perfect SC is the DS with MT red Paint with TT Asseccerries...
I'm not denying that DS is better, I think it's overall the best Starscream. My Meteor isn't overly fiddly or loose though. The only gripe I have is the wings come unpegged and get in the way too often. I genuinely prefer the height, torso, feet, null rays, and transformation of MT. Everything else DS wins easily.
I'm not Hating MTs efforts, actually there are a lot to like with Meteor. I have SS, G2 SS and the Acid Storm and they all have the fiddly crotch plate, the loose waist, loose knees, unpegging wings, and liquidy tail fins. With more rachets and tighter tollorences I would love MTs mold just that much more, but As Is looks good not play good and I want both.
@@passionnotparked9099
I've only got Meteor. I've heard the QC was inconsistent. Mines pretty well broken in and all the joints function acceptably. Yeah, the crotch plate is a bit wobbly though lol. We'll have to wait and see how the DS effort is holding up in a few years. Looks well built so hopefully fine.
Here are my biggest take-aways:
“MakeToys wins a lot of the other kinda less collector-based categories…. If you want a cartoon accurate Starscream in spite of how this VS turned out, get the DS. The MT is not trying to be cartoon accurate, it’s trying to be cartoon realized.”
I just realized watching SDS with a cup of coffee has become my adult version of watching Saturday morning cartoons with a bowl of Frosted Flakes.
Chocolate hoops for me..
When Make toys make Downbeat it's was awesome it's my favourite version of Jazz and I think it's every collectors favourite because it's cartoon accurate but when they make Mateor now they saying they trying to be cartoon realised😳
@@RonLorLeona Maketoys Downbeat is an awesome figure. However, it is considerably more cartoon accurate to Jazz than the Meteor mold is to the Seekers. What I find interesting is that both molds are 4-years old and Downbeat still fits in with the current MP aesthetic while the Seekers do not. Seems like there may have been some confusion as to what direction MT was going even back then. The Seeker mold was good for its time. The Downbeat mold was great for its time.
… but it too will be replaced on my shelf the minute Fanstoys drops FT-48 Jive.
The Maketoys was $80 cheaper than the Deformation Space?!? Where the heck are you buying your toys, Bobby? There's no way I was able to get Maketoys for $50!
I recommend you do a video on worst and best transformations. The DS is definitely up there for worst transformation, as is Toyworld Jazz and Badcube Trailblazer/Hoist for me.
You're remembering wrong. Takara beat Maketoys and tied DS.
Maketoys was $80 cheaper? Wow, in the UK they’re both the same price, £110.
In fact the reissue of Meteor, if it actually comes out, is £125.
Interesting that if the price is the same, the final result is 4-5.
If the reissue of Meteor is £125, the final result is tied 5-5.
Yes I did wonder about that price comparison as well. Not sure what Bobby is using as a basis for it because he may well have got howling meteor cheaper from dealer making him an offer because across the board from what I can tell from showz, bbts, tfsource, kapowtoys, and omega lock the price differences are negligible. If Bobby got a good deal on howling meteor then fair play but I think most people aren't going to be in a position to see a difference in price between the two, and generally from what I could see the ds price was generally cheaper but only by a few dollars/pounds etc. Its worth noting that bbts and tfsource don't seem to stock deformation space so couldn't tell what they would price it as but seems as they sell maketoys for higher than showz I would assume they would sell the ds at a higher price point.
Come on maketoys make the two last come heads !!!!!
Can't comment either way, still have my MP11. But that MT head mac! Sheesh
You're not giving full credit on the legs for DS01. The hip flap lifts higher. He can get that leg out straight, not that it matters much.
DS CW all day every day and twice on Sunday
Blows TT SS and the MT out of the sky.
Omg. It actually looks like you shrank and then blacked out the MT head. I could no longer take the comparison seriously. I know you didn't do that because unfortunately I have him.
I paid $120 for Meteor years ago and $135 for DS recently. The reissue for Meteor is actually more expensive. I think you need to correct the $80 statement, and recommend tie them out on price.
Yeah this is my only complaint, currently for me $135 for MT or $140 for DS, still takes it (if you are that much of a penny pincher,) but where that $80 is coming from I'll be damned if I know.
Agreed, not sure where he gets the price difference. Both are for sale right now and they are about the same. Not an $80 difference by any stretch of the imagination.
Maybe he got confused with the Takara. I've not seen a maketoys for $135 or less than the DS in the UK unless it was pre-owned.
$80 cheaper? Show Z has them at $5 difference.
You can get a second hand Meteor for next to nothing on ebay. I just did it a couple weeks ago. I get we generally talk in msrp but that's not realistic.
@@GibDozer1 Why isn't MSRP realistic? Maketoys has a Howling Meteor reissue coming and the price is $135-150. At best Howling Meteor is the same price as Crimson Wings and usually it is more expensive, especially from U.S. retailers who are charging $150 for the reissue and $140 for Crimson Wings.
Used is used and new is new, and just because you can buy a used copy for less doesn't make MSRP irrelevant.
@@jon9550
Because, you'd have to be stupid to buy a new one for msrp at this point. I assumed you weren't stupid, my apologies.
@@GibDozer1 I looked on uk ebay. Struggling to find one at that price. Also surely you compare new with new or 2nd hand with 2nd hand when you're marking them against price.
@@TheWolfmansgotnards
I don't even look at new prices on figures that old unless it's a deep sale. The best deals on Meteor were likely 2-3 weeks ago as many were already off loaded on the secondary here. Prices got down to 60-75$ range.
I bought mine in a lot with 2 MP11s that I'll eventually sell off. Paid 150$ shipped. After I sell TC and SW I expect to have less than 50$ in Meteor. 75$ would be my max for the figure. Honestly it needs new head and hands to be presentable(imo), so you've gotta factor those costs in too. Anymore than 75$ just keep MP11 or save up for DS.
i gotta be honest, i love the DS transformation. ive done it like 10 times and i dont have any paint rubbing cause i let it sit and cure for a few days
I'm rolling with modded MT and MP11s for my collection. I've seen people bitch about DS transformation, but it doesn't look all that hard to me. Most people that complain about transforming their figures don't enjoy puzzles. The "complex transformation" is one of the things that made it hard for ME to pass on DS out of the gate.
Honestly, anybody who has held these in their hands knows that DS is the better figure. These "quantitative" comparisons don't really get at anything meaningful. Like the comparison between Takara and DS articulation is pointless if Takara wins articulation when it has issues standing up (like mine does due to weak knee ratchets). Or the price; how can you compare the price of a figure that came out years ago, before the price hikes, with one that came out recently. Obviously, the DS is more expensive since it came out during the pandemic and the associated supply and inflation issues. Even so, it's the same price as the Maketoys reissue. What's the point of measuring these things? Also, for most people, things like sculpt, articulation and paint are vastly more important than a $30 price difference. Anybody who is thinking of DS, just get it. I have all three and It's a lot better than either Maketoys or Takara. Also, how can the Takara tie with DS, lose to Maketoys, but then Maketoys beats DS? At the end, if you just look at these from the front at a distance, and don't plan on playing with them, don't bother upgrading from Maketoys. Otherwise, upgrade.
For a lot of people, myself included, scale is the issue. I have MP36 but prefer modded Despotron as Megatron in my display. I can't accept Starscream being bigger than my Soundwave and eye to eye with Megatron. I do think DS Starscream is "the best", but it's not best for my shelf.
These comparisons should really be scored like boxing. 1 point if it merely wins the category. 2 points if it dominates the category
Wholeheartedly agree with the way the hips look on the MT Meteor figure. The shape and sleekness of it unmarred by any flaps and screws just look amazing.
I was surprised that Make toys had a cheaper price than DS. I don't know exactly how much it originally sold for but you said it was $80 cheaper than DS, so it sold for $50? Dang! I missed out on that one. I could have sworn it was going for $150 or so. I almost went for the Maketoys when it was announced. I just couldn't believe they did that to the wings when there was absolutely no practical reason to do so.
“DS takes it from the back” oh does he now 👀
LMAO 😆😆😆....I won't Judge DS if that's his preference
I love your daughters putting more thought and their choice ^^
I actually rather enjoyed that too.
I love my maketoys starscream it looks like it’s out of transformers devastation the game
Crimson Wings tranformation is pain in the ass wtf
so DS lost to Takara and MT but we prefer DS
Price is debatable, I paid around 130$ for DS and I do not think the Maketoys back then was any cheaper, not by a significant amount, anyway, I might be wrong tho, can't really remember.
I feel the same. I think the price should have beena tie
Does he purposely put his mask on wrong to mess with people who have issues with OCD?
I would.
Crimson wings is a boss
100% as always. Thumbs way up from me. Thanks for taking the time.
It's Good Review..... you can hear the Bias, but that's BS, he can't help himself & to be fair, when you prefer one over another, it's tough to remain unbiased.
I have MP-3, MP-11, Meteor & DSCW - I Disagree with BS - Hey I like it, I WIN :) ....... Here's why - I enjoyed MP3, felt MP11 was an improvement but when Meteor came out, I was impressed by several reviews & picked him up, however by the time I got him, 2nd run, Pics of DSCW was making it's first rounds. I really liked Meteor when I received him. Other than his Small Head, he was a definite improvement over 3 & 11. I also felt he was as good as 52, even though I didn't have a 52 to compare with, I did watch several reviews to come to my opinion.
Then DSCW came in.......... & that changed again...... I was Thoroughly IMPRESSED TOP to BOTTOM, WINGTIP to WINGTIP. Yes, the Transformation is not the Best but there are worse ones out there. He replaced Meteor, which I still enjoy, just as is Starscream, has become my Number 2 ;)
I get asked - Am I going to pick up MP-52?
Only if I decide to get the KO. WHY?
B/c -
A) I find Takara/Hasbro to have OUTRAGEOUS as in PRICE GOUGING PRICE POINTS,
B) I find for the PRICE the QC is lacking & for me, when A Company such as Takara/Hasbro or FT wants to PRICE GOUGE then I EXPECT PERFECTION & my opinions get harsher b/c of it.
C) *BIG Reason - I find 52 to be HIDEOUSLY DISPROPORTIONATE all around - from thin thighs to overly huge calves, to MASSIVE BOBBLE HEAD - to Barrel Chest / Bulbous Canopy- a waist swivel would have been nice - his arms look abnormally small, sure he comes with some cool stuff but that's not enough of a reason to validate spending my HARD EARNED $ on it when there are so many other NEGATIVE DETRACTIONS to it
When DSCW came out, it reminded me of when Transform Element released their Prime, putting MP44 to shame for less than half the cost. MS Light of Justice was also an EXCELLENT Alternative to 44.
Anyways...... It pays dividends for the average consumer to watch as many reviews and opinions as possible before they pull the trigger on a purchase. It has saved me $..... but I have also missed out b/c I waited to long to make that decision........ a la...... just got my Meteor when DSCW was being teased.
But.... he gave DS more points
@@rinzler9171
He did?
BS (Quote) - "It just WINS little Categories here & there, that you are not looking for ....."
Deformation 4
MakeToys 6
Did you watch the same video I did?
He thought it was going to be a slaughterhouse for DS...... so if he likes DS that much then how is it he praises MakeToys & it sneaks out the win?
Also...... just imo - I DO NOT think the 52 is any more cartoon accurate than say DS or Make. Sure they all have their strong points, but is one "More" Cartoon Accurate over the others? I DO NOT believe so.
Take the height for instance, there are probably just as many cells that show Starscream close to or at Soundwave's height, just below Megatron's as there are some that show him shorter.
You CAN NOT rely on the Sunbow height chart b/c the Animation never stayed true to it either, it's just a reference.
He said at the end get the DS if you want toon accuracy. I don't see the problem.
Oh come on Bobby DS smashes MT everytime
mmmh, Meteor got points for negligible stuff, like gimmicks just for the Megatron strangling head, and for price, which is debatable as I think they both costed pretty much the same, in the end it is clear DS is the superior product, and that is also normal as Meteor is what, 5 years old now? The only think i like better on the MT is the red paint on the body, I am not really fond of the matte look of DS
@@davidez4640 pretty sure DS is cheaper
@@DanielGreen07 so why MT got the point? It was an error?
@KoolDreAgassi I'm pretty sure Howling Meteor was $140~150 at release. I remember because of how much more expensive it was than Galaxy Meteor which was $100~110.
You can tuck the MT tailfins inside the calves for a cleaner look.
BEEN WAITING ON THIS VIDEO ALL WEEK SKULLY
Thanks for doing this one Bobby. Although I sold maketoys thundercracker and skywarp, I had to keep their starscream but now I think it’ll stay in jet mode where it shines most and DS will be my bot mode. Now what to do about the Takara hmmm. If I where to keep meteor in bit mode though, I’d definitely put the head from takara prime on it.
Haha i loved selena's pro reviewer comment" the joints cracked", clearly skull face genes 😁👍🏼 so much fun hearing them grow up on the Channel man!
The term I like for MT's approach is Cartoon "Inspired". It is clearly the cartoon character, but not beholden to it exactly. Of course that leaves a lot more to subjective judgement. I've never liked the look of the vast majority of MT's Re:Master figures. Honestly my decision right now is between Deformation Space and Zeta. MT and Takara were never considerations for me.
Bobby "validates my purchase, I am sticking with MT and all is right with the universe" Face!
Congratulations... your mother must be proud.
Yes she is very proud Claude, thank you.
I have to be honest and say that as soon as I saw that you where going to compare these two I knew that the Maketoys was going to win. I believe a comparison between these TF action figures can't be objective and I know you prefer the Maketoys (otherwise you would have told us you where going to change your MP seekers set for the DS one and you haven't) so it was easy to predict the Maketoys victory.
The main subjectivity in these comparisons isn't even in the way we divide the points but the way we think about each category in itself.
Some ppl think a transformation is at it's best when it's fun and enjoyable while others think that the best possible transformation is one that is able to keep the accuracy between the two modes. If we don't agree that accuracy is important (some prefer cartoon accuracy others prefer stylized looks) then that disagreement will come first and we wont be able to agree when it comes to the transformation. With stylized looks the engineering can be a bit more forgiving because you can change the look to fit the transformation but if you're trying to achieve the best accuracy possible the engineering will become a bit less forgiving and that will affect the transformation.
What I meen is that in the end most of these categories are completely subjective so TF action figures who are trying to achieve completely different things shouldn't be competing with each other, it's just a matter of which one will suit your needs and tastes better.
If the Maketoys is trying to achieve a more stylized look than the DS who is clearly trying to be as accurate as possible we shouldn't be comparing these two. If they are both trying to be as accurate to the g1 one cartoon look as possible... DS utterly destroys Maketoys since the later only wins in the scale department and even then that is only in some episodes.
Thanks for the comparison Mr. Skullface.
Love your videos Mr. Skullface agree with you 99% of the time but not this time. Just got my Deformation Starscream and its glorious. The head alone on the Maketoys Starscream kills it 4 me.
Very interesting. Thanks for doing it.
I'm glad the Maketoys won - not because it's the one I own (although it is!) but because it proves A beats B beats C beats A is possible and opens up the conversation on vs type videos a bit more.
I'd love to see - after they finish the coneheads, of course ;-) - Maketoys revisit their original seekers with upgrade kits. Wing fillers are already being included with the coneheads so that's dealt with. They already have a retooled C-clip mechanism so the parts to retrofit that onto the original three should be achieveable. A replacement chest with angleable shoulder vanes and maybe the concealed missiles would be nice. The closeup in this review does do a great job highlighting the shortcomings of the head sculpt. Then, perhaps, some improved hands and a coronation set?
But are they even going to finish the Coneheads? MT seems pretty much dead lately, except for some reissues
That's really what they should have done with their latest EX re-release line, but at least they did include the wing fillers.
@@davidez4640 I've kept my preorders in. I think they'll get them done. DS plus Takara 3.0 probably muddies the waters, though.
@@YakBat yeah but it would be nice for their early adopters to be able to benefit without buying a full new figure, imo. I'd imagine EX did have the new C-clip, though - didn't they implement this change from their rainmakers onwards?
@@TrypticOwen huh not sure what happened to my original response to this, but the c-clip issue is fixed on the reissue, and you can still buy the wing fillers separately. There some for sale right now on eBay.
Some of the points mt got should be worth 1/2 POINTS 😂, i like the transformation on ds , i use the 1 joint to move the wing out the way, no clearance issues for me.
Some, but sone should be worth2 points(imo). Altmode and transformation are half the toy for me lol. Obviously a great bot mode is worth the other 50%. MT isn't a bad figure by my measure. Beating it in any category(let alone multiple)is nothing to lament.
Paper, rock, scissors Star Screams!
Love how your panel of judges are getting more detailed in their critiques.
Thank-you Bobby. I always enjoy your vs videos, and appreciate the amount of work that goes in to them.
The red paint used on the Maketoys looks better than anything that came before or afterward
Facts. It's so vibrant and premium looking. I wish the DS had that red paint job or something close to it. It might have done well to elevate that figure more in the looks department even thought it's accurate af. But paint always makes a figure look a lot better, which is why it was so sad to have to replace the MT with the DS in the collection.
The head on MT looks like a struck match.
As I was one of the peeps asking for this, before I ultimately went with DS due to having a chance to compare both in person, I thank you nonetheless. Funny you mention DS's not needing wing fillers, they just revealed a wing filler set that streamlines the back, which I personally will be getting and figured I share since I haven't heard any reviewer mention them yet. Anyways great video, appreciate the hard work you put in for us fans.
I think the best thing about this is how well that make toys has held up comparative to his descendant per se. You can see elements of all of the starscream's in the DS. I own both and I paid about the same price for both of them.
Wasn't expecting that result either.
I ended up getting the starscream head from the MP-44 and it works well on the maketoys body. Good enough for now. But I might end up going in on the DS skywarp/thundercracker, so I might end up getting the DS starscream eventually anyway.
My MT is pretty heavily modded. It's on TFW under the same name. I considered going with the MP44 head, but I love the stoic "warrior" look of MP11s head on MT body. I think MT mades really good bodies, but the headsculpts always sucked(imo). I have Despotron and MP36 and I vastly prefer Despo with the 36 head to either one.
Thank you for making this and listening to what we wanted as fans. Much appreciated
TBH I think being able to completely distend DS's neck so that _any_ Megatron can throttle him without having to replace the entire head AND the hand on MakeToys' Megatron (which you would have to actually own) is a better gimmick. And I wouldn't give MT the point on price either, the only way to get it significantly cheaper was preorder.
Good point…
Yes, agree 100%, but why wouldn't you own their Megatron? It's the best looking Megs out there. Perfect G1/Dreamwave/IDWish blend.
Bobby your statement on price is wrong. DS was $130 including shipping for me. MT was $120 including shipping. Also… you can’t find a MT Meteor that cheap anymore. I understand you’re comparing at launch, but when one is 5+ years out of stock, the CURRENT price should be taken into account I feel.
Thanks for the comparison! Awesome video... as always. Hope you are well. Have a good one!
So DS > Takara > MT > DS? Is that right? Do we have a rock paper scissors situation?
No. Takara beat Maketoys and Takara tied DS. He's remembering wrong.
I really love Crimson Wings no matter what, the robot mode it's like you took it from the TV screen while watching Transformers g1.
If you're going to stick with Maketoys an MP11 head and KFC hands go a long way to improve the figure. I prefer MT torso, feet, and null rays to DS.
Well, well. Didn’t see that coming, just goes to show (I’m still going to the DS Thundercracker though)!
Ha, winning bc of the Megatron head, which is an outdated gimmick, and price, which honestly isn't true is no real win.
Let's be honest nobody likes that MT head and everybody is selling theirs without buyers already. I do have MT's bc I don't want to make the switch, but we all know the DS is the best of the three
Nice! The one thing I wish DS came with (or the MT too, for that matter) is some hole-fillers for the biceps where the null rays plug in. When I unplug them, I'm left with these big holes on both arm that just look pretty unsightly. Besides that, I love the DS. I have both. Thanks for the vid and all the work you put into your channel! Have a great day!
I think the DS could (height-wise) go well with the Toyworld coneheads since they are too tall compared to the mp-11 mold. Aesthetically the DS would go well with the Takara coneheads since they were far more "toony" than any other seeker set. For what that is worth... it definitely shows they we have a LOT of seekers (between official and 3rd party) that don't really go together for one reason or another.
Regardless of which is the winner I think these are easily the best 2 starscream figures to date. The only reason I decided to get the new Takara starscream is that I'm not convinced that maketoys will finish their coneheads (although for whatever reason they've managed to put out a yellow seeker and a green seeker instead of the last 2 coneheads but I digress), and I'm not sure that DS will do any more seekers at all. This DS starscream is nice but having him as a one off is more of a novelty than a plan. My coneheads don't have to match my seekers but I would prefer the 3 seekers all be the same general aesthetic, and the 3 coneheads be the same general esthetic. And I do have the 3 maketoys seekers, and dirge, but of course the only conehead set to date besides toyworld are the absolutely garbage-built original Takara units - and I'm not sure who's going to do them again, other than Takara again.
Nice, staying up late pays off! 3am and watching a new skullface video!!
DS
Wow very interesting turn out. I have the Takara and love it but I really might try and pick up a maketoys just to give it a feel, and the jet looks amazing. Another great video Bobby!
I paid $140 for ds. Was maketoys $80 less?
Nice vid! Thanks Bobby. I have all three and I like MT very much until I saw the heads of the newer two. Can’t unsee how bad the head sculpt is and MTs version just ruins any shelf it’s on. Need an upgrade to keep in robot mode or a flight stand and relegate to alt mode lol. Some categories are more important and head sculpt counts for more.
Couldn't agree more! I'm sticking with my heavily modded MT as I definitely prefer the slimmer torso and smaller price tag to DS. Without a head transplanting(and hands tbh) the MT looks awful to me.
Great comparison. I like the DS and Maketoys over Takara, leading to me buying both.
BS!!!! Your price is wrong!!!
Thanks, for review!
I'm be picking up the DS figure and keep my Maketoys in alt mode.
$80 cheaper? Where are you finding Meteors for $50?
IDK about 80$, but they were going very cheap on ebay a couple weeks ago. Several selling in the 65-75$ range. The culling may be over by now, I imagine the price has already begun stabilizing.
Giving a point to MT on price because the market is flooded due to people dumping their MTs in favor of DS 😂😂😂
@@jonnymj
To be fair it's both DS and MP52 that have caused the pricedrop. Still 80$ is 80$.
Awesome video. I have both they were nearly same price for me. The starscrem head that came with mp44 ko fits on the MakeToys kinda.
Love it when his mask is squint 😆
The front skirts on the DS are made to go up one more click. It is a tough joint, but I have done it several times on mine and there is no stress marks or sign of future breaking. Forcing it is not for the faint of heart, but the full articulation is there. Just letting everyone know...
Silicone shock oil makes this figure so much easier to manipulate.
Personally use Traxxas myself.
Also lets not forget that the legs have that extra joint at the hip to allow for more dynamic posing.
Once you move the hip flaps once they loosen up a bit to point it doesn't feel like your going to o break it... At least on mine
@@michaelrichardson790 I haven't done it that many times on mine, but I imagine that is correct.
Love my MakeToys Seekers. Kinda wanna buy the DS to have as an alt mode and support them for future releases versus paying for an overpriced “official” MP.
Slightly off putting that the camera was askew as well as your mask