Hi Mark, I am interesting in buying a super auto machine and have been doing a lot of homework. I am down to the De’Longhi Dinamica Plus, Saeco Xelsis, and Gaggia Accademia. Any input on the above, and/or the best recommendation for a super auto would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!
Hey v, Thanks for the question. If you have not heard me say it the Accademia makes the best espresso I've ever had from a super-auto bean to cup machine. I love the Accademia's UI and capabilities. I've used all those you mention and just about every other one available over the past decade plus in North America. Here's my full-length video on the Accademia: th-cam.com/video/jZWS38_Jge4/w-d-xo.html Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Amazing, thank you Marc. I was seriously close to pulling the trigger on the Saeco Xelsis Suprema but I will now wait and review the Accademia a bit more in-depth. Thanks again!
My Gaggia Cadorna Prestige get quite a bit of use since I bought it last year. I actually sold off both of my manual machines (Quick Mill Alexia Evo and La Pavoni Stradivari) this year since I never used them.
How does the Gaggia Cadorna Prestige pull espresso shots for the milk drinks? I'd like 2 shots pulled separately without the machine putting more water through the grounds to make a lungo shot.
Hi Rachel, The Cadorna Prestige like the vast majority of automatic machines does a single grind cycle for milk drinks. There are machines like the Gaggia Accademia which have a boost function which runs a second grind cycle for a double and can do that for milk drinks: www.wholelattelove.com/products/gaggia-accademia-espresso-machine Using the Cadorna or other Gaggia machines, an option for true double shot milk drinks is to make a double espresso which will do 2 grind cycles and then frothed milk separately. It's a 2 step process but produces what you are looking for. Hope that helps! Marc
how easy to do deep cleaning for the machines is more important. no matter how good coffee they make, that is just short term if inside of them cannot be cleaned to a point brewing quality can be kept, and no molds is accumulated.
Hi n, thanks for the comment. Gaggia machines have removable brew units. Those should be rinsed under room temp water weekly with no soap. They also have degreasing tablets which go into the pre-ground coffee dosing chute to clean internal coffee carrying components. Machines from all manufacturers run a hot water rinse on startup and shutdown. Jura machines do not have removable brew units but use cleaning tablets for internal components cleaning using an automated process.
Hi martha, thanks for the question. Any bean with less than 25% visible surface oil is okay to use. If you like a traditional Italian style espresso here are some suggestions that are great to use in automatic machines. Crema Wave is a modern American take on classic Italian style bean blends using 100% Arabica specialty grade beans. It's my favorite and in our top 3 sellers: www.wholelattelove.com/products/whole-latte-love-crema-wave-whole-bean-espresso Maromas Orphea is our most popular whole bean coffee. It's a blend roasted in Italy: www.wholelattelove.com/products/maromas-orphea-whole-bean-espresso See all our top sellers here with buyer ratings and reviews: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/whole-bean-espresso-coffee?sort=best-selling Hope that helps! Marc
Mark, thanks for the excellent reviews, I am looking to buy one machine for a small office 15-20 people (about 30 to 40 coffees a day). After looking at your reviews I was looking for the Jura Ena 8 or the Gaggia Cadorna Prestige, I also looked at the Jura D6, what is your recommendation? I have not enough money for a Jura E8 or a Gaggia Academia, thanks in advance!
Hi Miguel, You are welcome for the reviews. Of the machines on your list the best choice is the Gaggia Cadorna Prestige. Easily has the most drink options, very easy/intuitive drink customization - important for a diverse group of users. For regular coffees I highly recommend using the Cadorna's Americano. The ENA 8 is a compact machine more appropriate for a couple of users. It has limited drink selections and lower bean and water capacities than the Cadorna. Be aware regardless of the machine you choose you will be filling the reservoir frequently. The D6 is an older model with a UI that's not very intuitive. The Jura X8 is way out of your price range but an excellent choice for the volume of use you anticipate. It can make 2 milk drinks simultaneously and has among the largest capacities available for beans, water and used coffee: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/super-automatic-espresso-machines/products/jura-x8-platinum-espresso-machine Hope that helps! Marc
Hey j, You need to take a look at features between the machines and what's important to you. In general, I consider Jura a bit more of a premium brand compared to Delonghi. Jura is known for convenience features and generally easier maintenance. For example use water filters as directed in Jura machines and you never have to descale. They tend to have a better user interface and brewing features like PEP (Pulse Extraction Process) which pulses water through the coffee when making espresso for deeper extractions. Hope that helps! Marc
" Very" new to making my own espresso I purchased the Gevi Espresso Machine 15 Bar Pump. I know it's not Elite but for a beginner I think it's ok. Does the portafilter/ basket make a difference? It seems like it does I'm wondering if I can use a different one on this model and how I would gut looking and which would be best. Or if not and it's a huge difference in flavor I might opt to return the machine.Thank you :)
Hi Mary, If you put in the effort to dial in your grind size a non-pressurized basket makes a huge difference! But you're starting with a lower-end appliance grade espresso maker which is limited in things like coffee dose weight, temperature stability and more. If you go non-pressurized you must have a decent espresso focused grinder and grind whole beans fresh. But the limitations of the product you have will prevent you from fully realizing potential quality improvements. Marc
I’m quite keen on the Gaggia Magenta Plus but my wife prefers the Smeg auto. She’s found it for £320 but the cheapest I can find the Gaggia is £517. Is it worth the £200 more?
In your opinion what is the best Jura model for a coffee trailer? Most cups per hour is what i need, aboit 20-30 drinks an hour. I know the Giga x8 is big of the big but ive seen people say the giga 6 is basically the same with smaller hoppers/water capacity which doesnt matter to me. Whats your thoughts? Giga 6? X8? Some other brand? Thank you!
Hi DB, in my opinion the GIGA X8 is the way to go. I understand you don't think smaller capacities will matter but at 20-30 drinks per hour they will. Jura rates the X8 at 200 drinks per day. The GIGA 6 is outside of Jura's pro line so doesn't really have per day capacity ratings. There are other automatic machine options. Here are some: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/commercial-espresso-machines?_=pf&pf_v_brand=Franke&pf_v_brand=Rancilio%20Egro&pf_v_brand=Schaerer
Love you guys, thanks for unlimited videos on coffee machines, care & trouble shootings. Mark I'm not into lattes or milk based special drinks, I just want good strong coffee & espresso machine, any recommendations? Thanks 😊
Hi PA, The Gaggia Accademia makes the best espresso I've ever had from a super-automatic machine. Its boost function which adds another grind/brew cycle ups the strength. Combine that with using the flow control on the coffee spouts to decrease flow rate and produce a deeper extraction for stronger flavor. But the Accademia has a lot of milk drink functions you do not need. There are espresso/coffee only machines like the Jura ENA 4 that cost less. To duplicate the stronger drinks of the Accademia you'd need to manually run 2 brew cycles of smaller liquid volume. The ENA 4 uses Jura's PEP (pulse extraction process) when making espresso for a richer extraction and turns it off when making larger coffees.Check out those machines here: Gaggia Accademia: www.wholelattelove.com/products/gaggia-accademia-espresso-machine Jura ENA 4: www.wholelattelove.com/products/jura-ena-4-super-automatic-espresso-machine-full-metropolitan-black Hope that helps! Marc
I'm new to premium coffee making (and drinking). I wonder if you can reccomend a Super Automatic machine that could be used in a restaurant? I worry about durability, I would project that it would go through 40-50 cycles per day.
Hi Dexter, True commercial service automatics start around $15,000 USD. Here's an example of one: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/commercial-espresso-machines/products/schaerer-coffee-art-plus Jura Professional machines are a lower cost option but are rated for a lower daily volume of ~30 than your spec of 40-50. They can do a higher volume and proper maintenance goes a long way to keeping them running properly. The Jura WE8 has a single bean hopper and does the one touch milk drinks one at a time: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/commercial-espresso-machines/products/jura-w-e8-professional-automatic-coffee-machine The Jura GIGA X7 has 2 bean hoppers so you can do 2 different coffee types or one regular and one decaf. It can make 2 milk drinks simultaneously: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/commercial-espresso-machines/products/jura-giga-x7-professional Hope that helps! Marc
I have a super automatic now but have looking for a newer one. I am torn between the latest Gaggia and the Z10. Would the Z 10 be a waste if I don’t drink cold brew? Thanks.
Hi Barbara, Thanks for the question. If you don't do cold brew then the Z10 is a bit much - paying for something you will not be using. Hope that helps! Marc
Hi SC, Here's a video in which we test non-dairy milks on the Cadorna: th-cam.com/video/jO9l7oENq1Q/w-d-xo.html The carafe usually does well with no dairy milks but the brand and type makes a difference. Here's a video covering the new Accademia in detail: th-cam.com/video/jZWS38_Jge4/w-d-xo.html The old version of the Accademia was a favorite of mine! The new version has everything the older one did and so much more. plus its beautiful! Some new Accademia features: 5" color touch screen Beautiful UI Heated cup warmer which can be set to turn on by time of day, day of week Coffee Boost: adds a sweet ristretto shot to drinks using an extra grind cycle. Makes the best espresso I've ever tasted from an automatic machine 4 levels of programmable milk froth density 16 drink specialties on the menu Easy programming of all drink parameters Save drinks into one of 4 user profiles with custom names Full glass front panel On the fly programming of coffee and milk liquid volumes Hope that helps! Mard
Hey Marc, how does one identify surface oils on beans? Does it indicate on the package? I’m with EB…I had to say away from dark beans on the old Accademia starting out but slowly started using them until my grinder eventually failed about 8.5 years in.
🔴 I always hear -not in this vidio- that “Jura can provide a dose of up to around 15grams which is the highest in market”, its wierd because my delongi perfecta gives a 30grams dose (when selecting dopio+) -puck weight is measured after it dries- Anyone noticed the same?
Hi Mark, Thanks for this video. On the Jura Z10, is there any way to remove unused beans if one wants to switch to a different kind (other than manually removing them and then using up the last bit? I've look elsewhere online but don't see any info on this. Thanks again!
Hi CB, thanks for the question. Perform routine maintenance and you should not have to send back. We regularly see drink counters on machines at 15,000+ brew cycles with nothing more than end-user routine maintenance. Marc
My current budget is about $2k and I am about to buy a Rancilio Silvia Pro x, but looking at this video is very tempting to change my decision, so should I stick with the rancilio or buy a full automatic machine like the ones in this video? I do love Rancilio brand though. I will also buy the new Rancilio Stile grinder, so that means I will be spending like $2700 overall.
Hi RO, so you're stuck in the middle between the convenience of a super-automatic bean to cup and the higher potential quality of a semi-automatic machine. Super-automatics are quick and easy to use. They produce very consistent results but sacrifice the potential quality for those willing to put the time and effort into semi-automatic machines. The Gaggia Accademia featured in this video produces the best espresso I've ever had from a bean to cup automatic machine - a good choice for those looking for a crossover machine. Here's a more detailed look at the Accademia: th-cam.com/video/jZWS38_Jge4/w-d-xo.html Marc
I am unsure on these on what to get, I like bean to cup but unsure to get manual style or automatic ones, wanting to find like best ones that say they can be hard piped to mains water instead of a tank, last I looked think £2000 was cheapest, if can only want to spend about £1000 with max of £1500
Thank you for the video, I have been overwhelmed but you help clarify a lot questions. What would you consider the best automatic machine for a espresso snob. A no money restrictions.
Hey dm dm, I'll mention 2 contenders for best. Overall best espresso: Gaggia Accademia: www.wholelattelove.com/products/gaggia-accademia-espresso-machine The Gaggia Accademia makes the best tasting espresso I've had from a super-automatic bean to cup. Using the dial on the spout to adjust flow rate one can fine tune flavor. Restriction of flow is especially useful when making straight espresso. Increasing the flow rate gets better results for long coffees. The Boost function results in a coffee dose of up to 23g using 2 grind cycles. The second "boost" grind cycle makes a sweet ristretto shot over the espresso resulting in a deep rich shot. Dollar for dollar the Accademia has the best user interface. The full lux glass face and metal housing are unique. www.wholelattelove.com/collections/super-automatic-espresso-machines/products/jura-giga-6 The Jura GIGA 6 is about 2x the price of the Accademia. It does not have as much control of espresso parameters, but has double the fun elsewhere. With 2 bean hoppers one can blend beans from each hopper in 25% increments for a single drink. Or have 2 different coffees on tap like one specialty blend and decaf in the other. The machine can make 2 milk drinks simultaneously and has deep control of milk froth density and temperature. Machine has large capacities for water, beans and used coffee. Hope that helps! Marc
Hi Fred, Thanks for the question. If you have not watched already here's our in-depth video on the new Accademia: th-cam.com/video/jZWS38_Jge4/w-d-xo.html As mentioned in the video, we get regular reports of tens of thousands of brew cycles on the old version. We highlight one in the video linked above with ~30,000 brew cycles that was used and abused in an office environment. The new version is built on the bones of the old one. At this point the new model has only been out for a few months. But given its heritage, I would expect similar reliability. I asked our lead service tech what he thinks. He says the new version should be even more reliable. One example was a re-engineering to remove a blow down valve which in rare cases was a source of a leak in older machines with high mileage. He also mentioned what I say all the time regardless of manufacturer: Performing regular maintenance is the most important factor in reliability. Descale on schedule, clean the group, etc on these machines are very reliable. In comparison to Jura, I can't say one is more reliable than the other. One thing that may give some comfort - brew units in Gaggia machines are removable. In Jura machines they are not. That said, I've never had an issue with a Jura brew unit and I've used a lot of them. Hope that helps! Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks Mark! Your speed of response and thoroughness lets me know that Whole Latte Love is the right place for whichever machine I decide to move forward with purchasing! Much appreciated and happy holidays!
@@fredsechan9043 You're welcome! Can't promise I'll always be that speedy but I do monitor the channel for new original comments most working days. Happy holidays to you as well! Maec
Hi Marc. Do you know how the Z10 doses for espresso shots? As you know, multiple bean images are used on screen to represent coffee strength. If I slide full left and only highlight a single bean, what is the bean dose? Then how does the dose weight change as I move up in bean image selection, incrementally? I called Jura and the rep did not know.
Hey Marc. I figured it out. It’s so simple. It really doesn’t matter what the machine presets are doing. I have the bypass dose on the Jura so I can simply weigh two scoops of coffee with the Jura Scoop, weigh it to 15 grams, then pull a 30 ml shot, and I’m done.
Hi PSW, The approximate dosing range is 5-16g. So 5g at minimum strength up to 16g at max setting. I say approximate as there's variance based on bean type. Lighter roast tend to be denser. Marc
Hey Marc. Hope all’s well with you. Having spent so much time with the super automatics, do you have any suggestions for dialing in espresso on the Jura Z10? I’ve tried so many combos of grind size, bean strength, temperature, and water volume, but have yet to hit the sweet spot. If you have any ideas to share, I would truly appreciate.
Thank you! I have the JURA Z10, love everything about it just my only curiosity ( which I believe it is part of the curve learning ) is that i like my drinks bold, very bold, I now understand i can customize my coffee setting grind to a finer grind to bring those bold drinks I love and drink everyday… i love this machine!! It is a dream in every way… my wife isn’t convinced yet but, i feel it is because she was used to our Breville Barista Pro ( i know this is worlds away ) and , i know once we learn more about all the options we will love it even more, question, how do you add full names? When i went to set up the names i could only do 3 letters, i also only have 2 pages of drinks .. could you do a video that showcases more in depth how to do this? I dont see any videos with in depth training on this amazing machine.
Please do a video where you show how to get the perfect espresso out of the machine. Because every new sort of beans you buy you have to get the perfect settings so the machine is doing the perfect espresso. And my experience of getting the perfect espresso out of Jura and the beans I bought is taking time and is it worth it!
Hi DMK, Thanks for the request. I'll add it to the list! In the meantime, here is my general advice on super-auto tuning for espresso. 1. Grind size: for espresso you'll want to be toward the finer end, if not the finest grind size. Know it may take a few grind cycles to taste the full impact of grind size changes. Many machines "learn" and adjust dose over a couple of brew cycles when grind size is changed. 2. Brew temp: In most cases uses the highest temperature setting. However, dark roasted beans may benefit from lower temperature setting - experiment. 3. Coffee Strength: Start with highest strength and work lower if espresso tastes under-extracted. 4. Pre-brewing/pre-wetting: If available on a machine taste how different settings change flavor. Pre-wetting can help reduce brightness in fresh beans. Hope that helps! Marc
First of all, thank you. I have learned a lot about making coffee watching your channel. I have a question, which could be a topic for a video. I have Rocket Mozzafiato machine, and it is my job to make two espressos first thing in the morning, for me and my wife. I use a single bottomless portafilter following the traditional parameters: 17 - 18 g of coffee, about 20 seconds extraction time, 1:1.5 - 2 ratio. To save time I want to use double spout portafilter to make two cups at the same time. The question: how do I dial it in? The double spout doesn't have the capacity for twice the amount of coffee, so the ratios will probably be off. Probably an ignorant question, but I could not find the answer in the whole of TH-cam.
Hi es, Thanks for the kind comment and question. An 18g dose is considered a double unless you're in Italy where a double is 14g. So you could just take the basket out of your bottomless and put it in a double spout PF and leave everything else the same. But that's going to give you 2 singles and you've been drinking doubles! Another option is to use a triple basket with a larger dose. This one takes up to 22g www.wholelattelove.com/products/baristapro-22g-nanotech-precision-portafilter-basket You would need to dial in your grind for the larger basket. And the 22g dose will of course be less than what you were doing before with the 2 x 18g. No baskets or PF's which will take a 36g dose. Marc
Double boilers used to be “important” if we could afford the extra cost. With technology changes, are these Gaggia single boiler options able to handle things? I’m an espresso/Americano drinker but want an occasional cappuccino + most of the family prefer milk drinks or weaker coffee. I need a new machine. Looking for the smallest footprint that gives me the best bang for my buck.
Hi EG, thanks for the question. So 2 rather distinct types who get espresso machines. There's the espresso geek hobbyist. They go with semi-automatic machines paired with a capable outboard espresso grinder. Dual boiler machines are in the semi-auto category. The other type are those wanting convenience with consistently good quality. They go for super-automatics like the machines featured in this video. In the end, if you put in the effort (time, knowledge, skill) semi-auto machines are capable of producing a higher quality espresso. Honestly, even better than what you get at the majority of high-end specialty cafes. Super automatics are quick, convenient, in most cases less costly and produce consistently good results without special skill, knowledge or effort required of the user. Both the Gaggia Magenta and Cadorna in this video have one-touch Americanos on the menu. For quick milk drinks I'd suggest going with the Prestige model of either as those have the detachable milk carafes. If you don't mind frothing milk manually the Barista models of either cost less and have a wand instead of milk carafe. My daily driver is the Cadorna Prestige. I too love Americanos and make a couple everyday on the machine. I do not do many milk drinks but both machines do a good cappuccino with the slightly airier froth of the classic preparation. Hope that helps! Marc
Thanks for the great video! Had a few questions on milk use with the Jura Z10 I hope you can answer. How well does it handle whole milk? Is it possible to use Half and Half? Are there more involved cleaning procedures necessary when using a milk with more fat?
Hi Felix, you are welcome! Whole milk is no problem and preferred by most although lower fat milks and non-dairy milks work as well. Cleaning procedure is the same regardless of milk type. Hope that helps! Marc
I have read that a lot of the super Automatic Espresso Machines do not get the milk hot enough. I prefer my latte milk to be steamed to about 160 degrees. Do any of these machines make the milk consistently hot enough? We also like the dark roast beans and buy the Kirkland Starbuck beans (not high grade compared to what many people get but they work for our lives), will any of these machines tolerate these dark roast beans better?
Hi RH, To a well trained barista the machines take milk to the proper temp. Milk is at its sweetest point due to heating at 130-140F. That said, I understand some like it hotter. For automatic frothing machines the starting milk temp seriously impacts the temp of the milk froth. To hit 160F starting milk temp would need to be about 60F. For those who like unusually hot milk you could warm the milk before auto-frothing or go with a machine that has a manual frothing wand in addition to the carafe like the Gaggia Accademia. Using the wand you can go as hot as you want. Other Gaggia machines like the Magenta and Cadorna have manual wand only models available. Dark roast beans are okay to use in these machines so long as they do not have more than about 25% of the bean surface covered with visible shiny oil residue. It's the oil that causes trouble and not the roast. But, darker roasted beans tend to have more surface oils. I'm not familiar with the beans you mentioned so not sure if they'd be okay. Marc
Hello Mark. Your review of the ENA4 got me to buy that machine. While I am happy with it, watching the Z10 makes me want to upgrade, to upgrade the espresso quality. My question is, can the Z10 make 2x better espresso than the ENA4? I mostly drink espresso and very rarely cortado. Would you recommend an upgrade to the Z10 for espresso quality? Is it at least 2x better to justify the 4x price? Thank you.
Hi NC, The Z10 is a premium machine with a premium price. Highly recommended if you like cold brew or cold, cold brew milk drinks. Espresso brewing on Z10 is similar in quality to the ENA 4 with difference of programming grind size by drink and the Z10 flushes the water from the thermoblock before brewing. For a straight espresso upgrade I'd take a hard look at the Gaggia Accademia in this video. Flow control on the spouts makes a difference allowing you to fine tune an extraction. Hope that helps! Marc
i have a z10 and i loved it worth every single penny. no regrets .you get what you paid for i love my z10 cost high but this is an investment long term. iits like bringing star bucks in the cimfort of my home
Did you upgrade? Having the machine and tweaking endlessly using high quality coffee, my opinion is that the Z10 can’t make real espresso. Take Marc’s advice very seriously. Try the Academmia. But if you are chasing exquisite, real espresso, buy a manual machine like a Profitec Pro 500 with flow control and get a killer grinder.
@@precisionsoundworksstudio nah. Not yet. It's a 7/10 espresso, fair enough for when you wake up. Manual espresso is good ofc, but consistency is hard to achieve. Especially early in the morning. But I am still thinking about upgrading 😂
Mark, Thank you for your videos. They are extremely helpful. I am in the market for a super auto machine and leaning toward the new Gaggia Academia. Just curious if you recommend any other brands that I should compare to that specific machine in that $2500 price range. For instance the Saeco Xelsis, Jura 8? Or any other model/brand? Want the best tasting espresso. Does any model compare to a manual machine in regards to taste? Thank you.
Hi Mark, you are welcome for the videos! If you have not watched, here's my in-depth look at the Gaggia Accademia: th-cam.com/video/jZWS38_Jge4/w-d-xo.html The Accademia offers the best bang for the buck. Jura machines with similar features cost a whole latte more. The Accademia makes the best espresso I've had from an automatic bean to cup machine. My favorite is the boosted espresso. When you boost a drink, the machine uses 2 grind cycles. So if you had a 70ml espresso and use the boost function the first grind cycle makes a 55-60ml espresso. The second grind cycle makes a sweet 10-15ml ristretto. The result is a deeply flavored, round and balanced espresso. User adjustable flow control is an Accademia exclusive. Turn to adjust flow rate. Slow it down for espresso and speed up for longer coffees. I like the heated cup warmer which can be set to come on at specific times and days. The Accademia's per drink user programmable milk froth density is fantastic. Other machines have but it's set manually or on a couple of much more expensive Jura machines it's programmable. The touch screen is big and beautiful. The user interface is intuitive and powerful with 4 user profiles to store custom drinks. In a sea of plastic boxes, It's one of the only automatic bean to cup machines with a full metal case. Gaggia nailed it with the new Accademia! Marc
My pleasure! If you're in the US right here: www.wholelattelove.com/products/gaggia-accademia-espresso-machine In Canada here: wholelattelove.ca/products/gaggia-accademia-espresso-machine I encourage you to read the verified buyer reviews at the links! Marc
Marc, sorry to bother you again. I live in the Chicago suburbs. Is there anywhere near Chicago I can see the Gaggia Academia and actually taste is espresso? I would definitely buy it from you, but would live to see it and taste first. Also, what is your return policy? What if we didn’t like the machine or the taste? Can we return?
Hey, I had the Philips Lattego 3200 for a year and then 3 red lights appeared and it wouldn't work. I kept it clean and did all of the necessary upkeep. What I found out was the Philips doesn't fix their machines. Their customer service number for their coffee machines is horrible, constant disconnects and people you can't understand when you get through. I had them e-mail service companies that would fix my machine and they sent me two. The first said they only fix Philips large appliances and not coffee machines. The second was a sketchy place in the Bronx that couldn't stop dropping the F bomb when speaking to me. Who does that? Anyway, they said it would take 9 months to complete the repair. WTF? Anyway, does anyone out there know of a repair place near Washington D.C.? Thanks.
Hi gww, Sorry to hear of your experience with the Phillips machine! That's terrible and must be incredibly frustrating. Whole Latte Love is a Gaggia authorized repair center. Unfortunately we do not service Phillips. Have you tried contacting the machine's retailer? If they specialize in coffee maybe they do repairs as well. Otherwise, I did find this Phillips support site specializing in coffee machines www.usa.philips.com/c-m-ho/coffee/your-philips-espresso-machine
Hey Marc, Thank you for your help a few weeks ago. Would you suggest an espresso machine that has adjustable temperature, a pressure gauge, and better build quality? I am probably still a bit vague on what I want/need. I like the Breville dual boiler and the features it has, but I would like a real machine with some of the features the Breville has. You suggested the Classic but I believe I would outgrow that unit fast. I like to geek out. My budget is around upto 2000-/+ for the espresso and I would not mind purchasing a refurbished unit from your company. Milk frothing is not too important to me. I saw something that started with "pro" and had an outside water tank. It is a small unit. Idk how I feel about a water tank on the outside. In the next 2 seasons, I plan on getting a good grinder. Ode, wilfia (?), X54, and DF64 are at the top of my list. Plz note that I make 2-4 espressos in the morning, and in the afternoon, I make 2 cups of either Clever Dripper or Moka Pot. Thank you so much for the suggestions. You are awesome!!
Hi K G, I believe the machine with outside tank you're thinking of is the ECM Puristika: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-puristika-single-boiler-espresso-machine-cream It has adjustable PID temp control, brew pressure gauge, externally adjustable brew pressure and no milk frothing capabilities. Currently no refurbs available for that model. We do have an ECM Classika refurb available. It's also PID temp control, brew pressure gauge, shot timer and it has flow control to geek out with: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/outlet/products/refurbished-ecm-classika-pid-espresso-machine-with-flow-control For the grinder I'd stay away from the Ode. It's not a good grinder for espresso. If you're considering a single dosing grinder take a look at the Eureka Oro Mignon. It has large 65mm burrs with Eureka's diamond inside treatment, It's built small and solid: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/espresso-grinders/products/eureka-oro-mignon-single-dose-grinder-black Hope that helps! Marc
@Whole Latte Love I am watching the video from WLL on the Classika, does this machine use aluminium hoses or fittings? Also, are wood accents available? Bottomless portafilter? Thanks Marc. I like this machine!!
@@kg-Whatthehelliseventhat No aluminum hoses or fittings in the Classika. If you go here: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-classika-pid-espresso-machine-with-flow-control click on "Customize your machine in 3D" From there, you'll be able to add wood accents to portafilter handle, E61 group lever and flow control knob. A bottomless portafilter is available with with or without wood trims when customizing. The Classika is available without flow control as well and same customizing options here: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-classika-pid Another option is a Classika that comes stock with olive wood trim. That's the only version which has a wood knob for the steam valve: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-classika-pid-espresso-machine-with-flow-control-olive-wood The olive wood Classika is available without the flow control as well. All those links are for new Classikas. There are refurbs available. You would need to speak with our sales team as to the possibility of customizing a refurb with wood accents: 585-924-7170 (Option 1) Hope that helps! Marc
@Whole Latte Love Marc, your the best. I was looking at units that WLL does not sell, but your guidance has been so great that I will be inclined to purchase a unit from WLL. I am sure you guys will listen to my wishes then make suggestions on the best products for me. Thank you. 😊 I really like the Classika. That seems like a fantastic machine.
I wanted to like the EN8 but the lack of drink selection and heavy use of plastic leaves me disappointed in a machine costing two thousand dollars. With the app system there really isn't an excuse for not having more beverages to choose from, how can they not have an Americano in this day and age? Gaggia's problem really comes down to the carafe which has too many parts and requires real cleaning, it is best to get them with a wand or their siphon system. Surely there are other super automatics than these two brands to choose from or do we only get to see those you do warranty service for?
Hey micro, I'm still using the Gaggia Accademia as my daily driver. Using the Boost function it makes the best espresso I've ever had from automatic bean to cup machine. Depends on your budget and features that are important to you. If cold brew interests you the Jura Z10 makes a fantastic true cold brew. Marc
Hi BM, Bean to cup espresso machines are an investment! They make much better coffee/espresso than pre-ground coffee packaged in plastic capsules. Long-term they will save users money with much lower cost per serving than capsule machines. For those spending $5 -10 daily on two milk based espresso beverages from a cafe total is as much as $3,640/yr! With a machine you can make the same drinks for about $0.30/each or total cost of less than $220/year. Kick the cafe, make it at home, save $3,300/yr
@@Wholelattelovepage Yeah but unfortunately I can't save that amount of cash these days. I do love my expressos though so unfortunately I'll still have to go to the shop lol. Great video though.
18 months ago I bought a Gaggia Brera for around $350. Just in this short period of time, I have saved around $500 , vs using coffee/capuchino pods which where what I used. I’ve been saving and getting better coffee. Totally recommend them, even if the price is steep at first.
Hi steve, That is a big difference with Jura compared to Gaggia. I've been using machines from Jura and Gaggia for over ten years and never had an issue with the brew group in a Jura machine. I've had the same Jura ENA Micro 9 in my home for 5+ years and the family has run more than 10,000 brew cycles on the machine. I do understand your concern and shared that opinion to some extent years ago. Jura leans toward convenience. Internal design and automatic cleaning routine keep things working well. Every 3-4 weeks my Jura alerts to put a cleaning tablet in the bypass doser. It runs an automatic cleaning cycle which takes about 15 minutes and that's it. Gaggia machines recommend the user remove the brew group at least once a week and rinse with room temp tap water (no detergent) at sink. In addition to Gaggia has cleaning tablets for cleaning group while in the machine. Those should be used about once a month. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks Marc, watched all your you tube vids so well informed by you. I want an automatic machine cause dont have time early mornings for the barista routine. But I want the best and strongest brew I can quickly get. Jura or Gaggia??? Bang for your buck say Gaggia. Is Jura really significantly a better instant brew?? That is the question eveyone wants to know! I know you probably get kickbacks from both brands so on the fence is probably where you will be.
@@steveewen5438 You're welcome. First know I get no kickbacks from Jura or Gaggia. Full disclosure Jura once brought in lunch when I visited their US headquarters in NJ to review some new products. Jura's PEP process used for espresso only does help get a deeper extraction without modifying grind size. It's very helpful for those who want a longer cup of coffee much of the time and shorter espresso now and then without changing the grind size - you can leave a coarser grind set for longer cups. Bang for the buck is Gaggia - especially the new version of the Accademia. If you like it strong, the new Accademia has the boost function available for any coffee drink over 1.7oz/50ml. It keeps the volume of espresso the same but produces it with 2 individual grind cycles for a dose of up to 23g which is more than a standard triple shot. Also on the machine is the flow control on the spouts which can increase or decrease the flow rate leading to a deeper extraction for espresso or faster for longer coffees. I think of the new Accademia as a crossover machine. It's for those that want more control while keeping the convenience of a bean to cup. Marc
Hi John, Urnex has this grinder cleaning tablet for super-autos: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/cleaning-products/products/urnex-supergrindz-super-automatic-grinder-cleaner Marc
Hi Mark,
I am interesting in buying a super auto machine and have been doing a lot of homework. I am down to the De’Longhi Dinamica Plus, Saeco Xelsis, and Gaggia Accademia. Any input on the above, and/or the best recommendation for a super auto would be greatly appreciated!
Thank you!
Hey v, Thanks for the question. If you have not heard me say it the Accademia makes the best espresso I've ever had from a super-auto bean to cup machine. I love the Accademia's UI and capabilities. I've used all those you mention and just about every other one available over the past decade plus in North America. Here's my full-length video on the Accademia: th-cam.com/video/jZWS38_Jge4/w-d-xo.html
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Amazing, thank you Marc. I was seriously close to pulling the trigger on the Saeco Xelsis Suprema but I will now wait and review the Accademia a bit more in-depth. Thanks again!
Mark, thanks for another extra helpful expiation video,. Your style is clear and lucid and a pleasure to view.
My pleasure!
Marc
There is no expiation for us caffeine addicts, fyi.
My Gaggia Cadorna Prestige get quite a bit of use since I bought it last year.
I actually sold off both of my manual machines (Quick Mill Alexia Evo and La Pavoni Stradivari) this year since I never used them.
Hi Richard, Thanks for sharing!
Marc
How does the Gaggia Cadorna Prestige pull espresso shots for the milk drinks? I'd like 2 shots pulled separately without the machine putting more water through the grounds to make a lungo shot.
Hi Rachel, The Cadorna Prestige like the vast majority of automatic machines does a single grind cycle for milk drinks. There are machines like the Gaggia Accademia which have a boost function which runs a second grind cycle for a double and can do that for milk drinks: www.wholelattelove.com/products/gaggia-accademia-espresso-machine
Using the Cadorna or other Gaggia machines, an option for true double shot milk drinks is to make a double espresso which will do 2 grind cycles and then frothed milk separately. It's a 2 step process but produces what you are looking for. Hope that helps!
Marc
how easy to do deep cleaning for the machines is more important. no matter how good coffee they make, that is just short term if inside of them cannot be cleaned to a point brewing quality can be kept, and no molds is accumulated.
Hi n, thanks for the comment. Gaggia machines have removable brew units. Those should be rinsed under room temp water weekly with no soap. They also have degreasing tablets which go into the pre-ground coffee dosing chute to clean internal coffee carrying components. Machines from all manufacturers run a hot water rinse on startup and shutdown. Jura machines do not have removable brew units but use cleaning tablets for internal components cleaning using an automated process.
Amazing review plus a stunning manly voice. Perfect combination.
Hey Rodrigo - Thank you kindly!
Marc
I am worried about putting a bean in my Jura F 9 that is too oily, what espresso bean to you recommend.Thank you
Hi martha, thanks for the question. Any bean with less than 25% visible surface oil is okay to use. If you like a traditional Italian style espresso here are some suggestions that are great to use in automatic machines.
Crema Wave is a modern American take on classic Italian style bean blends using 100% Arabica specialty grade beans. It's my favorite and in our top 3 sellers: www.wholelattelove.com/products/whole-latte-love-crema-wave-whole-bean-espresso
Maromas Orphea is our most popular whole bean coffee. It's a blend roasted in Italy: www.wholelattelove.com/products/maromas-orphea-whole-bean-espresso
See all our top sellers here with buyer ratings and reviews: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/whole-bean-espresso-coffee?sort=best-selling
Hope that helps!
Marc
I bought the Gaggia Cardona Milk and love it!
Hey Ross, Thanks a whole latte for sharing the love!
Marc
You should show what grinder is in each machine
Mark, thanks for the excellent reviews, I am looking to buy one machine for a small office 15-20 people (about 30 to 40 coffees a day). After looking at your reviews I was looking for the Jura Ena 8 or the Gaggia Cadorna Prestige, I also looked at the Jura D6, what is your recommendation? I have not enough money for a Jura E8 or a Gaggia Academia, thanks in advance!
Similar question here 😮
Hi Miguel, You are welcome for the reviews. Of the machines on your list the best choice is the Gaggia Cadorna Prestige. Easily has the most drink options, very easy/intuitive drink customization - important for a diverse group of users. For regular coffees I highly recommend using the Cadorna's Americano. The ENA 8 is a compact machine more appropriate for a couple of users. It has limited drink selections and lower bean and water capacities than the Cadorna. Be aware regardless of the machine you choose you will be filling the reservoir frequently. The D6 is an older model with a UI that's not very intuitive.
The Jura X8 is way out of your price range but an excellent choice for the volume of use you anticipate. It can make 2 milk drinks simultaneously and has among the largest capacities available for beans, water and used coffee: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/super-automatic-espresso-machines/products/jura-x8-platinum-espresso-machine
Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for your help, just bought from Whole Latte Love my Gaggia Cadorna Prestige!
What's the best Super automatic machine that uses a dual boiler and not a thermoblock? Can't find any available that's affordable that is
Any of these possible for a small commercial setting?
Hi d, Thanks for the question - these are not designed for commercial use. But small office, bed and breakfast, etc. is doable.
Marc
Mark im looking to buy a new machine i have a dehloghi primo donna do rate dehloghi compared to jura
Hey j, You need to take a look at features between the machines and what's important to you. In general, I consider Jura a bit more of a premium brand compared to Delonghi. Jura is known for convenience features and generally easier maintenance. For example use water filters as directed in Jura machines and you never have to descale. They tend to have a better user interface and brewing features like PEP (Pulse Extraction Process) which pulses water through the coffee when making espresso for deeper extractions. Hope that helps!
Marc
" Very" new to making my own espresso I purchased the Gevi Espresso Machine 15 Bar Pump. I know it's not Elite but for a beginner I think it's ok. Does the portafilter/ basket make a difference? It seems like it does I'm wondering if I can use a different one on this model and how I would gut looking and which would be best. Or if not and it's a huge difference in flavor I might opt to return the machine.Thank you :)
Hi Mary, If you put in the effort to dial in your grind size a non-pressurized basket makes a huge difference! But you're starting with a lower-end appliance grade espresso maker which is limited in things like coffee dose weight, temperature stability and more. If you go non-pressurized you must have a decent espresso focused grinder and grind whole beans fresh. But the limitations of the product you have will prevent you from fully realizing potential quality improvements.
Marc
I’m quite keen on the Gaggia Magenta Plus but my wife prefers the Smeg auto. She’s found it for £320 but the cheapest I can find the Gaggia is £517. Is it worth the £200 more?
In your opinion what is the best Jura model for a coffee trailer? Most cups per hour is what i need, aboit 20-30 drinks an hour. I know the Giga x8 is big of the big but ive seen people say the giga 6 is basically the same with smaller hoppers/water capacity which doesnt matter to me. Whats your thoughts? Giga 6? X8? Some other brand? Thank you!
Hi DB, in my opinion the GIGA X8 is the way to go. I understand you don't think smaller capacities will matter but at 20-30 drinks per hour they will. Jura rates the X8 at 200 drinks per day. The GIGA 6 is outside of Jura's pro line so doesn't really have per day capacity ratings. There are other automatic machine options. Here are some: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/commercial-espresso-machines?_=pf&pf_v_brand=Franke&pf_v_brand=Rancilio%20Egro&pf_v_brand=Schaerer
@@Wholelattelovepage Ok swell. Thank you for the reply! Great content all around btw.
Love you guys, thanks for unlimited videos on coffee machines, care & trouble shootings.
Mark I'm not into lattes or milk based special drinks, I just want good strong coffee & espresso machine, any recommendations? Thanks 😊
Hi PA, The Gaggia Accademia makes the best espresso I've ever had from a super-automatic machine. Its boost function which adds another grind/brew cycle ups the strength. Combine that with using the flow control on the coffee spouts to decrease flow rate and produce a deeper extraction for stronger flavor. But the Accademia has a lot of milk drink functions you do not need. There are espresso/coffee only machines like the Jura ENA 4 that cost less. To duplicate the stronger drinks of the Accademia you'd need to manually run 2 brew cycles of smaller liquid volume. The ENA 4 uses Jura's PEP (pulse extraction process) when making espresso for a richer extraction and turns it off when making larger coffees.Check out those machines here:
Gaggia Accademia: www.wholelattelove.com/products/gaggia-accademia-espresso-machine
Jura ENA 4: www.wholelattelove.com/products/jura-ena-4-super-automatic-espresso-machine-full-metropolitan-black
Hope that helps!
Marc
great video, subscribed!
Thanks for the comment and sub!
Marc
I'm new to premium coffee making (and drinking). I wonder if you can reccomend a Super Automatic machine that could be used in a restaurant? I worry about durability, I would project that it would go through 40-50 cycles per day.
Hi Dexter, True commercial service automatics start around $15,000 USD. Here's an example of one: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/commercial-espresso-machines/products/schaerer-coffee-art-plus
Jura Professional machines are a lower cost option but are rated for a lower daily volume of ~30 than your spec of 40-50. They can do a higher volume and proper maintenance goes a long way to keeping them running properly. The Jura WE8 has a single bean hopper and does the one touch milk drinks one at a time: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/commercial-espresso-machines/products/jura-w-e8-professional-automatic-coffee-machine
The Jura GIGA X7 has 2 bean hoppers so you can do 2 different coffee types or one regular and one decaf. It can make 2 milk drinks simultaneously: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/commercial-espresso-machines/products/jura-giga-x7-professional
Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thank you very much.
I have a super automatic now but have looking for a newer one. I am torn between the latest Gaggia and the Z10. Would the Z 10 be a waste if I don’t drink cold brew? Thanks.
Hi Barbara, Thanks for the question. If you don't do cold brew then the Z10 is a bit much - paying for something you will not be using. Hope that helps!
Marc
So would the new Gaggia be a better choice? i see it has some flow control that I find interesting.
What is the difference between the new academia and old?
I heard the cadorna doesn’t do well with oat milk/ almond milk in the caraf? Is this true?
Hi SC, Here's a video in which we test non-dairy milks on the Cadorna: th-cam.com/video/jO9l7oENq1Q/w-d-xo.html
The carafe usually does well with no dairy milks but the brand and type makes a difference.
Here's a video covering the new Accademia in detail: th-cam.com/video/jZWS38_Jge4/w-d-xo.html
The old version of the Accademia was a favorite of mine! The new version has everything the older one did and so much more. plus its beautiful!
Some new Accademia features:
5" color touch screen
Beautiful UI
Heated cup warmer which can be set to turn on by time of day, day of week
Coffee Boost: adds a sweet ristretto shot to drinks using an extra grind cycle. Makes the best espresso I've ever tasted from an automatic machine
4 levels of programmable milk froth density
16 drink specialties on the menu
Easy programming of all drink parameters
Save drinks into one of 4 user profiles with custom names
Full glass front panel
On the fly programming of coffee and milk liquid volumes
Hope that helps!
Mard
They need to make a super automatic that can handle super dark beans. I'd be in!
Hi EB, Thanks for the comment. Dark beans are fine just stay away from those with more than 30% coverage with surface oils.
Marc
Hey Marc, how does one identify surface oils on beans? Does it indicate on the package? I’m with EB…I had to say away from dark beans on the old Accademia starting out but slowly started using them until my grinder eventually failed about 8.5 years in.
🔴 I always hear -not in this vidio- that “Jura can provide a dose of up to around 15grams which is the highest in market”, its wierd because my delongi perfecta gives a 30grams dose (when selecting dopio+) -puck weight is measured after it dries-
Anyone noticed the same?
Hi Mark, Thanks for this video. On the Jura Z10, is there any way to remove unused beans if one wants to switch to a different kind (other than manually removing them and then using up the last bit? I've look elsewhere online but don't see any info on this. Thanks again!
Hi Eric, You're welcome and thanks for the question. Only way to get the beans out is manually.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks Marc!
How does Philips automatic espresso machine perform?
Hi GP, Which one?
Marc
I upgraded my gaggia to dual boiler machine and it's so much better...
Hi Peter, Thanks for the comment. If willing to put in the effort, dual boiler semi-auto does produce!
Marc
Hi Mark. When purchasing one of these how long before you need to send it back to the manufacturer for reconditioning ?
Hi CB, thanks for the question. Perform routine maintenance and you should not have to send back. We regularly see drink counters on machines at 15,000+ brew cycles with nothing more than end-user routine maintenance.
Marc
Thank you for the video! Does the last jura machine have the ability to make iced lattes, etc?
How does the Melitta Barista T Smart compare to those ?
Hi Nora, Thanks for the question. Unfortunately I have not used that machine so cannot offer an opinion.
Marc
My current budget is about $2k and I am about to buy a Rancilio Silvia Pro x, but looking at this video is very tempting to change my decision, so should I stick with the rancilio or buy a full automatic machine like the ones in this video? I do love Rancilio brand though. I will also buy the new Rancilio Stile grinder, so that means I will be spending like $2700 overall.
Hi RO, so you're stuck in the middle between the convenience of a super-automatic bean to cup and the higher potential quality of a semi-automatic machine. Super-automatics are quick and easy to use. They produce very consistent results but sacrifice the potential quality for those willing to put the time and effort into semi-automatic machines. The Gaggia Accademia featured in this video produces the best espresso I've ever had from a bean to cup automatic machine - a good choice for those looking for a crossover machine. Here's a more detailed look at the Accademia: th-cam.com/video/jZWS38_Jge4/w-d-xo.html
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage great, thanks for your reply. I will go ahead and buy the Silvia.
I am unsure on these on what to get, I like bean to cup but unsure to get manual style or automatic ones, wanting to find like best ones that say they can be hard piped to mains water instead of a tank, last I looked think £2000 was cheapest, if can only want to spend about £1000 with max of £1500
Thank you for the video, I have been overwhelmed but you help clarify a lot questions. What would you consider the best automatic machine for a espresso snob. A no money restrictions.
Hey dm dm, I'll mention 2 contenders for best.
Overall best espresso: Gaggia Accademia: www.wholelattelove.com/products/gaggia-accademia-espresso-machine
The Gaggia Accademia makes the best tasting espresso I've had from a super-automatic bean to cup. Using the dial on the spout to adjust flow rate one can fine tune flavor. Restriction of flow is especially useful when making straight espresso. Increasing the flow rate gets better results for long coffees. The Boost function results in a coffee dose of up to 23g using 2 grind cycles. The second "boost" grind cycle makes a sweet ristretto shot over the espresso resulting in a deep rich shot. Dollar for dollar the Accademia has the best user interface. The full lux glass face and metal housing are unique.
www.wholelattelove.com/collections/super-automatic-espresso-machines/products/jura-giga-6
The Jura GIGA 6 is about 2x the price of the Accademia. It does not have as much control of espresso parameters, but has double the fun elsewhere. With 2 bean hoppers one can blend beans from each hopper in 25% increments for a single drink. Or have 2 different coffees on tap like one specialty blend and decaf in the other. The machine can make 2 milk drinks simultaneously and has deep control of milk froth density and temperature. Machine has large capacities for water, beans and used coffee.
Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thank you for the recommendations, will dive in research on these two models.
How has the reliability been for the new Accademia been so far? And how does it compare with Jura E8 please?
Hi Fred, Thanks for the question. If you have not watched already here's our in-depth video on the new Accademia: th-cam.com/video/jZWS38_Jge4/w-d-xo.html
As mentioned in the video, we get regular reports of tens of thousands of brew cycles on the old version. We highlight one in the video linked above with ~30,000 brew cycles that was used and abused in an office environment. The new version is built on the bones of the old one. At this point the new model has only been out for a few months. But given its heritage, I would expect similar reliability. I asked our lead service tech what he thinks. He says the new version should be even more reliable. One example was a re-engineering to remove a blow down valve which in rare cases was a source of a leak in older machines with high mileage. He also mentioned what I say all the time regardless of manufacturer: Performing regular maintenance is the most important factor in reliability. Descale on schedule, clean the group, etc on these machines are very reliable.
In comparison to Jura, I can't say one is more reliable than the other. One thing that may give some comfort - brew units in Gaggia machines are removable. In Jura machines they are not. That said, I've never had an issue with a Jura brew unit and I've used a lot of them.
Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks Mark! Your speed of response and thoroughness lets me know that Whole Latte Love is the right place for whichever machine I decide to move forward with purchasing! Much appreciated and happy holidays!
@@fredsechan9043 You're welcome! Can't promise I'll always be that speedy but I do monitor the channel for new original comments most working days. Happy holidays to you as well!
Maec
Hi Marc. Do you know how the Z10 doses for espresso shots? As you know, multiple bean images are used on screen to represent coffee strength. If I slide full left and only highlight a single bean, what is the bean dose? Then how does the dose weight change as I move up in bean image selection, incrementally? I called Jura and the rep did not know.
Hey Marc. I figured it out. It’s so simple. It really doesn’t matter what the machine presets are doing. I have the bypass dose on the Jura so I can simply weigh two scoops of coffee with the Jura Scoop, weigh it to 15 grams, then pull a 30 ml shot, and I’m done.
Having said all that, if you do happen to know of any deep dive specs or white papers for download on the Jura, I’m all ears! 🙌🏻
Hi PSW, The approximate dosing range is 5-16g. So 5g at minimum strength up to 16g at max setting. I say approximate as there's variance based on bean type. Lighter roast tend to be denser.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage ah, yes, there’s the variance! Lighter roasts are more dense! Thank you!
Hey Marc. Hope all’s well with you. Having spent so much time with the super automatics, do you have any suggestions for dialing in espresso on the Jura Z10? I’ve tried so many combos of grind size, bean strength, temperature, and water volume, but have yet to hit the sweet spot. If you have any ideas to share, I would truly appreciate.
Thank you! I have the JURA Z10, love everything about it just my only curiosity ( which I believe it is part of the curve learning ) is that i like my drinks bold, very bold, I now understand i can customize my coffee setting grind to a finer grind to bring those bold drinks I love and drink everyday… i love this machine!! It is a dream in every way… my wife isn’t convinced yet but, i feel it is because she was used to our Breville Barista Pro ( i know this is worlds away ) and , i know once we learn more about all the options we will love it even more, question, how do you add full names? When i went to set up the names i could only do 3 letters, i also only have 2 pages of drinks .. could you do a video that showcases more in depth how to do this? I dont see any videos with in depth training on this amazing machine.
Please do a video where you show how to get the perfect espresso out of the machine.
Because every new sort of beans you buy you have to get the perfect settings so the machine is doing the perfect espresso.
And my experience of getting the perfect espresso out of Jura and the beans I bought is taking time and is it worth it!
Hi DMK, Thanks for the request. I'll add it to the list! In the meantime, here is my general advice on super-auto tuning for espresso.
1. Grind size: for espresso you'll want to be toward the finer end, if not the finest grind size. Know it may take a few grind cycles to taste the full impact of grind size changes. Many machines "learn" and adjust dose over a couple of brew cycles when grind size is changed.
2. Brew temp: In most cases uses the highest temperature setting. However, dark roasted beans may benefit from lower temperature setting - experiment.
3. Coffee Strength: Start with highest strength and work lower if espresso tastes under-extracted.
4. Pre-brewing/pre-wetting: If available on a machine taste how different settings change flavor. Pre-wetting can help reduce brightness in fresh beans.
Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage 🥇
First of all, thank you. I have learned a lot about making coffee watching your channel. I have a question, which could be a topic for a video. I have Rocket Mozzafiato machine, and it is my job to make two espressos first thing in the morning, for me and my wife. I use a single bottomless portafilter following the traditional parameters: 17 - 18 g of coffee, about 20 seconds extraction time, 1:1.5 - 2 ratio. To save time I want to use double spout portafilter to make two cups at the same time. The question: how do I dial it in? The double spout doesn't have the capacity for twice the amount of coffee, so the ratios will probably be off. Probably an ignorant question, but I could not find the answer in the whole of TH-cam.
Hi es, Thanks for the kind comment and question. An 18g dose is considered a double unless you're in Italy where a double is 14g. So you could just take the basket out of your bottomless and put it in a double spout PF and leave everything else the same. But that's going to give you 2 singles and you've been drinking doubles! Another option is to use a triple basket with a larger dose. This one takes up to 22g www.wholelattelove.com/products/baristapro-22g-nanotech-precision-portafilter-basket
You would need to dial in your grind for the larger basket. And the 22g dose will of course be less than what you were doing before with the 2 x 18g. No baskets or PF's which will take a 36g dose.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for the reply.
Double boilers used to be “important” if we could afford the extra cost. With technology changes, are these Gaggia single boiler options able to handle things? I’m an espresso/Americano drinker but want an occasional cappuccino + most of the family prefer milk drinks or weaker coffee. I need a new machine. Looking for the smallest footprint that gives me the best bang for my buck.
Hi EG, thanks for the question. So 2 rather distinct types who get espresso machines. There's the espresso geek hobbyist. They go with semi-automatic machines paired with a capable outboard espresso grinder. Dual boiler machines are in the semi-auto category. The other type are those wanting convenience with consistently good quality. They go for super-automatics like the machines featured in this video. In the end, if you put in the effort (time, knowledge, skill) semi-auto machines are capable of producing a higher quality espresso. Honestly, even better than what you get at the majority of high-end specialty cafes. Super automatics are quick, convenient, in most cases less costly and produce consistently good results without special skill, knowledge or effort required of the user.
Both the Gaggia Magenta and Cadorna in this video have one-touch Americanos on the menu. For quick milk drinks I'd suggest going with the Prestige model of either as those have the detachable milk carafes. If you don't mind frothing milk manually the Barista models of either cost less and have a wand instead of milk carafe. My daily driver is the Cadorna Prestige. I too love Americanos and make a couple everyday on the machine. I do not do many milk drinks but both machines do a good cappuccino with the slightly airier froth of the classic preparation. Hope that helps!
Marc
Thank you.
@@EG076 My pleasure!
Thanks for the great video! Had a few questions on milk use with the Jura Z10 I hope you can answer. How well does it handle whole milk? Is it possible to use Half and Half? Are there more involved cleaning procedures necessary when using a milk with more fat?
Hi Felix, you are welcome! Whole milk is no problem and preferred by most although lower fat milks and non-dairy milks work as well. Cleaning procedure is the same regardless of milk type.
Hope that helps!
Marc
I have read that a lot of the super Automatic Espresso Machines do not get the milk hot enough. I prefer my latte milk to be steamed to about 160 degrees. Do any of these machines make the milk consistently hot enough? We also like the dark roast beans and buy the Kirkland Starbuck beans (not high grade compared to what many people get but they work for our lives), will any of these machines tolerate these dark roast beans better?
Hi RH, To a well trained barista the machines take milk to the proper temp. Milk is at its sweetest point due to heating at 130-140F. That said, I understand some like it hotter. For automatic frothing machines the starting milk temp seriously impacts the temp of the milk froth. To hit 160F starting milk temp would need to be about 60F. For those who like unusually hot milk you could warm the milk before auto-frothing or go with a machine that has a manual frothing wand in addition to the carafe like the Gaggia Accademia. Using the wand you can go as hot as you want. Other Gaggia machines like the Magenta and Cadorna have manual wand only models available.
Dark roast beans are okay to use in these machines so long as they do not have more than about 25% of the bean surface covered with visible shiny oil residue. It's the oil that causes trouble and not the roast. But, darker roasted beans tend to have more surface oils. I'm not familiar with the beans you mentioned so not sure if they'd be okay.
Marc
Hello Mark. Your review of the ENA4 got me to buy that machine. While I am happy with it, watching the Z10 makes me want to upgrade, to upgrade the espresso quality. My question is, can the Z10 make 2x better espresso than the ENA4? I mostly drink espresso and very rarely cortado.
Would you recommend an upgrade to the Z10 for espresso quality? Is it at least 2x better to justify the 4x price?
Thank you.
Hi NC, The Z10 is a premium machine with a premium price. Highly recommended if you like cold brew or cold, cold brew milk drinks. Espresso brewing on Z10 is similar in quality to the ENA 4 with difference of programming grind size by drink and the Z10 flushes the water from the thermoblock before brewing. For a straight espresso upgrade I'd take a hard look at the Gaggia Accademia in this video. Flow control on the spouts makes a difference allowing you to fine tune an extraction.
Hope that helps!
Marc
i have a z10 and i loved it worth every single penny. no regrets .you get what you paid for i love my z10 cost high but this is an investment long term. iits like bringing star bucks in the cimfort of my home
Did you upgrade? Having the machine and tweaking endlessly using high quality coffee, my opinion is that the Z10 can’t make real espresso. Take Marc’s advice very seriously. Try the Academmia. But if you are chasing exquisite, real espresso, buy a manual machine like a Profitec Pro 500 with flow control and get a killer grinder.
@@precisionsoundworksstudio nah. Not yet. It's a 7/10 espresso, fair enough for when you wake up. Manual espresso is good ofc, but consistency is hard to achieve. Especially early in the morning. But I am still thinking about upgrading 😂
@slay2525 I get it… totally understand! 🙌🏻
Mark, Thank you for your videos. They are extremely helpful. I am in the market for a super auto machine and leaning toward the new Gaggia Academia. Just curious if you recommend any other brands that I should compare to that specific machine in that $2500 price range. For instance the Saeco Xelsis, Jura 8? Or any other model/brand? Want the best tasting espresso. Does any model compare to a manual machine in regards to taste? Thank you.
Hi Mark, you are welcome for the videos! If you have not watched, here's my in-depth look at the Gaggia Accademia: th-cam.com/video/jZWS38_Jge4/w-d-xo.html
The Accademia offers the best bang for the buck. Jura machines with similar features cost a whole latte more. The Accademia makes the best espresso I've had from an automatic bean to cup machine. My favorite is the boosted espresso. When you boost a drink, the machine uses 2 grind cycles. So if you had a 70ml espresso and use the boost function the first grind cycle makes a 55-60ml espresso. The second grind cycle makes a sweet 10-15ml ristretto. The result is a deeply flavored, round and balanced espresso. User adjustable flow control is an Accademia exclusive. Turn to adjust flow rate. Slow it down for espresso and speed up for longer coffees. I like the heated cup warmer which can be set to come on at specific times and days. The Accademia's per drink user programmable milk froth density is fantastic. Other machines have but it's set manually or on a couple of much more expensive Jura machines it's programmable. The touch screen is big and beautiful. The user interface is intuitive and powerful with 4 user profiles to store custom drinks. In a sea of plastic boxes, It's one of the only automatic bean to cup machines with a full metal case. Gaggia nailed it with the new Accademia!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thank you so much for your detailed and quick response. Can I purchase that machine through you guys?
My pleasure! If you're in the US right here: www.wholelattelove.com/products/gaggia-accademia-espresso-machine
In Canada here: wholelattelove.ca/products/gaggia-accademia-espresso-machine
I encourage you to read the verified buyer reviews at the links!
Marc
Marc, sorry to bother you again. I live in the Chicago suburbs. Is there anywhere near Chicago I can see the Gaggia Academia and actually taste is espresso? I would definitely buy it from you, but would live to see it and taste first. Also, what is your return policy? What if we didn’t like the machine or the taste? Can we return?
You might want to check the Manufacturer's Customer Service satisfaction scores. Gaggia is now my only choice.
Hey, I had the Philips Lattego 3200 for a year and then 3 red lights appeared and it wouldn't work. I kept it clean and did all of the necessary upkeep. What I found out was the Philips doesn't fix their machines. Their customer service number for their coffee machines is horrible, constant disconnects and people you can't understand when you get through. I had them e-mail service companies that would fix my machine and they sent me two. The first said they only fix Philips large appliances and not coffee machines. The second was a sketchy place in the Bronx that couldn't stop dropping the F bomb when speaking to me. Who does that? Anyway, they said it would take 9 months to complete the repair. WTF? Anyway, does anyone out there know of a repair place near Washington D.C.? Thanks.
Hi gww, Sorry to hear of your experience with the Phillips machine! That's terrible and must be incredibly frustrating. Whole Latte Love is a Gaggia authorized repair center. Unfortunately we do not service Phillips. Have you tried contacting the machine's retailer? If they specialize in coffee maybe they do repairs as well. Otherwise, I did find this Phillips support site specializing in coffee machines www.usa.philips.com/c-m-ho/coffee/your-philips-espresso-machine
Hey Marc,
Thank you for your help a few weeks ago. Would you suggest an espresso machine that has adjustable temperature, a pressure gauge, and better build quality? I am probably still a bit vague on what I want/need.
I like the Breville dual boiler and the features it has, but I would like a real machine with some of the features the Breville has. You suggested the Classic but I believe I would outgrow that unit fast. I like to geek out.
My budget is around upto 2000-/+ for the espresso and I would not mind purchasing a refurbished unit from your company.
Milk frothing is not too important to me. I saw something that started with "pro" and had an outside water tank. It is a small unit. Idk how I feel about a water tank on the outside.
In the next 2 seasons, I plan on getting a good grinder. Ode, wilfia (?), X54, and DF64 are at the top of my list.
Plz note that I make 2-4 espressos in the morning, and in the afternoon, I make 2 cups of either Clever Dripper or Moka Pot.
Thank you so much for the suggestions. You are awesome!!
Hi K G, I believe the machine with outside tank you're thinking of is the ECM Puristika: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-puristika-single-boiler-espresso-machine-cream
It has adjustable PID temp control, brew pressure gauge, externally adjustable brew pressure and no milk frothing capabilities. Currently no refurbs available for that model.
We do have an ECM Classika refurb available. It's also PID temp control, brew pressure gauge, shot timer and it has flow control to geek out with: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/outlet/products/refurbished-ecm-classika-pid-espresso-machine-with-flow-control
For the grinder I'd stay away from the Ode. It's not a good grinder for espresso. If you're considering a single dosing grinder take a look at the Eureka Oro Mignon. It has large 65mm burrs with Eureka's diamond inside treatment, It's built small and solid: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/espresso-grinders/products/eureka-oro-mignon-single-dose-grinder-black
Hope that helps!
Marc
@Whole Latte Love I am watching the video from WLL on the Classika, does this machine use aluminium hoses or fittings? Also, are wood accents available? Bottomless portafilter? Thanks Marc. I like this machine!!
@@kg-Whatthehelliseventhat No aluminum hoses or fittings in the Classika. If you go here: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-classika-pid-espresso-machine-with-flow-control click on "Customize your machine in 3D" From there, you'll be able to add wood accents to portafilter handle, E61 group lever and flow control knob. A bottomless portafilter is available with with or without wood trims when customizing. The Classika is available without flow control as well and same customizing options here: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-classika-pid Another option is a Classika that comes stock with olive wood trim. That's the only version which has a wood knob for the steam valve: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-classika-pid-espresso-machine-with-flow-control-olive-wood The olive wood Classika is available without the flow control as well. All those links are for new Classikas. There are refurbs available. You would need to speak with our sales team as to the possibility of customizing a refurb with wood accents: 585-924-7170 (Option 1)
Hope that helps!
Marc
@Whole Latte Love Marc, your the best. I was looking at units that WLL does not sell, but your guidance has been so great that I will be inclined to purchase a unit from WLL. I am sure you guys will listen to my wishes then make suggestions on the best products for me. Thank you. 😊
I really like the Classika. That seems like a fantastic machine.
@@kg-Whatthehelliseventhat Happy to help!
I wanted to like the EN8 but the lack of drink selection and heavy use of plastic leaves me disappointed in a machine costing two thousand dollars. With the app system there really isn't an excuse for not having more beverages to choose from, how can they not have an Americano in this day and age?
Gaggia's problem really comes down to the carafe which has too many parts and requires real cleaning, it is best to get them with a wand or their siphon system.
Surely there are other super automatics than these two brands to choose from or do we only get to see those you do warranty service for?
2024 Recommendations?
Hey micro, I'm still using the Gaggia Accademia as my daily driver. Using the Boost function it makes the best espresso I've ever had from automatic bean to cup machine. Depends on your budget and features that are important to you. If cold brew interests you the Jura Z10 makes a fantastic true cold brew.
Marc
Dude, the DeLonghi Dinamica Plus is better than at least half of those machines.
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
One thing is for sure a good expresso machine is for the rich lol
Hi BM, Bean to cup espresso machines are an investment! They make much better coffee/espresso than pre-ground coffee packaged in plastic capsules. Long-term they will save users money with much lower cost per serving than capsule machines. For those spending $5 -10 daily on two milk based espresso beverages from a cafe total is as much as $3,640/yr! With a machine you can make the same drinks for about $0.30/each or total cost of less than $220/year. Kick the cafe, make it at home, save $3,300/yr
@@Wholelattelovepage Yeah but unfortunately I can't save that amount of cash these days. I do love my expressos though so unfortunately I'll still have to go to the shop lol. Great video though.
18 months ago I bought a Gaggia Brera for around $350. Just in this short period of time, I have saved around $500 , vs using coffee/capuchino pods which where what I used. I’ve been saving and getting better coffee. Totally recommend them, even if the price is steep at first.
Jura bottom of the list in my opinion not being able to remove brew-group for cleaning is a major design fault
Hi steve, That is a big difference with Jura compared to Gaggia. I've been using machines from Jura and Gaggia for over ten years and never had an issue with the brew group in a Jura machine. I've had the same Jura ENA Micro 9 in my home for 5+ years and the family has run more than 10,000 brew cycles on the machine. I do understand your concern and shared that opinion to some extent years ago. Jura leans toward convenience. Internal design and automatic cleaning routine keep things working well. Every 3-4 weeks my Jura alerts to put a cleaning tablet in the bypass doser. It runs an automatic cleaning cycle which takes about 15 minutes and that's it. Gaggia machines recommend the user remove the brew group at least once a week and rinse with room temp tap water (no detergent) at sink. In addition to Gaggia has cleaning tablets for cleaning group while in the machine. Those should be used about once a month.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage
thanks Marc, watched all your you tube vids so well informed by you.
I want an automatic machine cause dont have time early mornings for the barista routine. But I want the best and strongest brew I can quickly get.
Jura or Gaggia???
Bang for your buck say Gaggia.
Is Jura really significantly a better instant brew?? That is the question eveyone wants to know!
I know you probably get kickbacks from both brands so on the fence is probably where you will be.
@@steveewen5438 You're welcome. First know I get no kickbacks from Jura or Gaggia. Full disclosure Jura once brought in lunch when I visited their US headquarters in NJ to review some new products. Jura's PEP process used for espresso only does help get a deeper extraction without modifying grind size. It's very helpful for those who want a longer cup of coffee much of the time and shorter espresso now and then without changing the grind size - you can leave a coarser grind set for longer cups. Bang for the buck is Gaggia - especially the new version of the Accademia. If you like it strong, the new Accademia has the boost function available for any coffee drink over 1.7oz/50ml. It keeps the volume of espresso the same but produces it with 2 individual grind cycles for a dose of up to 23g which is more than a standard triple shot. Also on the machine is the flow control on the spouts which can increase or decrease the flow rate leading to a deeper extraction for espresso or faster for longer coffees. I think of the new Accademia as a crossover machine. It's for those that want more control while keeping the convenience of a bean to cup.
Marc
❤❤😊
There is not even top 1 automatic espresso machine. It's like top 5 automatic sports cars.
Don’t write if you don’t know what you are talking about 😂
☕️🤔
How do you clean the grinder on a superauto? I was told to not use grinder tabs on their own..
Hi John, Urnex has this grinder cleaning tablet for super-autos: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/cleaning-products/products/urnex-supergrindz-super-automatic-grinder-cleaner
Marc