Idk, I feel like if your show has on screen lesbian prison sex, you’re not allowed to later take the implied approach with the second gay couple. So I’ll keep them as brothers in my mind.
@@ConnieGlynn30 You and the Jayvik shippers are basically accusing men who are vulnerable of being gay. I don't like that. We are perpetuating toxic masculinity. This actually doesn't help a lot with progress, just discourages men from being showing any kind of effeminate behaviors like caring for one another.
I don't think the arcane universe would even have a word for gay/queer. People are just into who they're into. Their sexualities dont need labels and the arcane world just sees it as natural
I'm sure there are, but the difference is there's no negative connotation to it. It's not used to reduce someone's feminity or masculinity. No one made a big deal about Lest being trans. Just is
@@nasheeanjel9967the words were used to differentiate between straight and queer people, in a world where there was never social stigma about sexuality, there wouldn’t be any word for that I mean, we in the real world don’t have words for people that like tall people or fat people or short people or muscular people, those are just preferences that we don’t have a name for, that’s the same in lol, when it comes to sexuality, a character in league can be the gays to ever exist and still not call themselves gay because that word does exist in runeterra
I loveeee universes where sexuality is a given and no one questions it. In a movie setting it’s so much better when it’s the norm, because “the struggle” with coming out and being queer is over represented in movies I think. If there’s a queer character in media, usually their one role and one character trait is just their sexuality, coming to accept it is their only character development. Without focusing on that the characters have more time to develop and they exit the “token gay” storyline. Also the queer people feel more represented (and even the people against the idea have to accept it lol) I watched Arcane with my fairly conservative mom, and she accepted the CaitVi relationship, was mad at Maddie, and said that JayVik looked cute together haha
I also love that Riot writers explicitly said (if I remember correctly, don't make me look up that really old post) that in the world of Runeterra, sexism, racism and homophobia isn't present and will never be present. They tackle other, similar stuff (anti-mage mentality in Demacia etc.), but they don't want to put these issues in a fantasy setting, every kind of human is accepted.
@@arkangyal8024 I love that because it lets us focus on other forms of prejudice: nationalism, classism, ableism... which are so seldom addressed and still affect so many.
Agree. It's also why I like the world of Dragon Age. Same concept, everyone's just seemingly perfectly ok with everything (except Tevinter but it's a society obsessed with magical bloodlines so it was GOING to come up)
Let's be honest if either Viktor or Jayce was a woman 99% of the society would consider their story and ending as romance despite nothing else being changed and even though female-male friendships are really underrepresented in the media.
Maybe if it was another show, but it's Arcane. It's brilliant because it does bring innovative ideas, like platonic soul mates. I think the biggest point is naturalize intimate male friendship since we now have a men crisis (suicid* because of loneliness). I believe that interpreting every love interaction as sexuality is pretty homophobic ("What, did you embrace/kissed/cried in front of your male friend, dude?? That's gay"). Obviously, there is no problem if they're are not straight, but it's not the point of that final scene. It was a spiritual ascend. This interpretation of your doesn't make many sense to me.
@jessikacaroline72 wtf? innovative ideas like male friendship that has been there since always and exist in every single piece of media? Suicide because of loneliness happens in every single group not only males and it has literally nothing to do with my point. If either of them was a woman you wouldn't have made this long paragraph to tell me how nobody should interpret them as romantic because you and everybody else would consider it romantic. Also calling shipping a male couple homophobic and making a long paragraph how nobody should ship h because male friendship is so so underrepresented is what actually homophobic. You know what actually really underrepresented? Friendship between women and men. Intimate friendship especially yet I don't see people like you writing letters how timebomb should never be shipped because of that. That's pretty homophobic double standard you have.
@@jessikacaroline72Wtf? I made a single observation which is real that their story would be considered romantic if one of them was a woman despite nothing else being changed. That's an objective truth. Even though male/female friendship are underrepresented nobody cries how man and woman can't be perceived as romantic... At least I don't see arguing that timebomb is somehow bad because it perpetuates the stereotype that man and woman can't be intimate platonic friends To which you decided to write several paragraphs how shipping a gay ship makes me somehow homophobic and how it push men to end themselves therefore my only your interpretation can be considered correct... Like wtf? You're not beating homophobic allegations at all.
@@jessikacaroline72yeah it’s very discouraging for men when everything intimate is seen as gay or just sexual in general, you can give your friend a hug without being called gay, Two people can deeply love each other and NOT be sexual or romantic, they’re just friends, and sometimes a friend will love you more then your sexual partner, it’s just a different kind of love
I get where you’re coming from, but you have to keep in mind that fandom spaces will always ship regardless of if it’s canon or not. That would defeat the purpose of shipping otherwise. Plus, there are so many platonic male friendships in media, while I can barely count canon mlm relationships in animated shows on one hand. So to say it’s homophobic for people to interpret them as gay is wild to me. Because it’s not taking anything away from the platonic relationship side. Many people that worked on the animation and voice acting for the series shipped Viktor and Jayce, which you can tell considering the fact there’s such a disconnect from Linke’s voiced opinions.
Regardless of whatever Jayce and Viktor’s relationship is I love it. They’re soulmates in every sense of the word regardless of if it’s platonic, romantic or something else entirely. These characters are so well written and I love it 😭 I really love how well both the writing and the animation seemed to portray it that way. You know when you look at characters and think “they’re soulmates”? I think that’s what their relationship is. Arcane does it so beautifully. Not everyone has to think of it like that ofc but it’s how I see it personally. I can see them being a romantic couple but I can also see them being platonic soulmates but soulmates nonetheless and I feel like there’s just something very charming about their relationship and how it’s portrayed regardless of what it is. I live for the amazing writing dude
I think what makes Arcane's queer representation feel so natural is the same thing that makes its representation of strong female characters feel natural, as well. We can have Vi, Caitlyn, Mel, Jinx, and Ambessa filling traditionally masculine roles and doing such impressive things, but they never have to turn to the camera and remind us that "girls can do anything!" We're shown that they're complex, strong women who make mistakes and grow as people, and we don't have to be TOLD, which is often what makes other attempts at the same thing fall flat. When the issue is addressed so blatantly in a story that isn't fundamentally focused on it, it just feels like pandering instead of a real effort to tell a story about female empowerment. In Arcane, the writers respect us enough to see these empowered ladies and fill in the rest ourselves.
Came here for Jayvik and stayed for your engaging personality and refreshing takes. Feels so much more lively than any other Arcane video essay I've watched. New subscriber!!
i think people also forget that some relationships can be difficult to define - more ambiguous, more confusing, etc. and I love when I see something like this portrayed in the media. the concept of soulmates is usually one of these not-so-easily defined bonds to me. the same goes for lifelong partners as they can constitute so many things. and both concepts are very romantic which has nothing to do with sexuality necessarily. you don't need to put a category or a label on everything which is why I love fictional worlds where it's already this way by default.
I am so sad really life isn’t like this, my sexuality is so confusing to me which is why I refuse to “come out” because I DONT FUCKING KNOWWWW this needs to be the standard, thank u for talking about it 🕴️
I absolutely see you and feel you. My experience of the world is fluid and constantly changing and it might not be the same for everyone but I know it is for so many others like us
My thing is, I don’t really see why it’s such a debate. Regardless of whether they’re platonic or romantic it’s very clear that what they share is a bond so deep that their whole world will literally be destroyed if they drift apart and will be saved if they stay together and choose to save it hand in hand. Like…regardless of what may or may not be cannon, what they share is a very deep love for one another, and I completely understand why people ship them. And they’re allowed to. Non-cannon ships are not this new concept. ESPECIALLY for queer ships. Harry and Draco. Edward and Jacob. Velma and Daphne. Sherlock and Watson. Gatsby and Nick. Elphaba and Glinda. Batman and the Joker. The list could go on and on and on. I do understand the argument that “men should be able to show affection towards one another without everyone automatically insisting they’re gay”. And I agree. But with that said, I view a lot of shipping as a “what if” rather than a “they are”. There are a lot of ships I enjoy where I know that cannoncially the characters might not be into a each other romantically. But I still like to ask “but what if they were”? That’s how I view Viktor and Jayce. Maybe in cannon they’re just friends? I’m willing to accept that. That’s perfectly fine. But I also think it’s perfectly fine to wonder “What if they were a couple? What would that be like?”. And truthfully I don’t think much would even change. So I support the ship. I think it would be cute 🤷🏼♀️ In the end, people can argue all they want, but the imagination cannot be policed. People are going to ask “what if?”. And they’re allowed to. Tbh I feel like that’s just the natural progression of releasing any fictional media to the public. The public will take it and do what they like. So I say just sit back and enjoy it honestly. I’ve seen some GORGEOUS Jayvik artwork. These fans are talented. I may not be screaming from the rooftops they MUST be gay, but as a “what if” scenario I think it’s adorable and the fans should keep making fan work cuz I love it :)
I've been in fandom for a long time. There's always going to be some people saying annoying things like "they're canon and if you don't agree you're homophobic." But for every one of those people, it feels like there's ten more saying "why can't men just be friends anymore?" My brother in christ, there are countless examples in media of great male friendships, including Jayce and Victor. If the characters are canonically not together, it's not like the presence of shippers is going to threaten that. It just comes across as exceptionally weak to be that bothered by it.
@@burnedoutgraduatestudent4482 You’re right that there’s some romance between them. They kiss once I think. But I don’t remember them ending up together romantically.
i love caitvi and i know a lotttt of people didn’t like them in the end which sucks. their relationship is really complex and i do believe that people wanted a cute wholesome relationship between them. when realistically, their relationship is complicated and not simple. which is why i ended up loving them more instead. i hated it at first too and it felt weird as a ship, but i was like oh wait yeah this isn’t one of those lesbian high school couples in shows where the characters have a lot of cute moments with each other.
I could not agree MORE!!!!! It is so refreshing to see a lesbian couple where it isn't just 'look how perfect and cute they are' I love the mess, we deserve messy, intense relationships full of yearning that still get a happy ending!!!!
THIS! Let lesbians be messy and complicated! Let them struggle and live with traumas! While still persevering, surviving together and ending up happy together after everything! Straight couples get all that! Personally I'm tired of lesbian and queer couples in general being depicted all wholesome cutesy sunshine and rainbows constantly!
If I hear 50 people commenting "why can't male friendship just be that, co-creator said they're not romantic!" He said there's love, and other staff has talked about how much Jayce loves Viktor, speculated was Jayce thinking of Viktor while having sex with Mel (yes, really), and other co-creator talked a how Viktor projected his relationship with Jayce to Hex-Sky, there's so many parallels with Mel and Viktor with Jayce...They're gay.
@@lis_t0k -_- I think youtube keeps deleting my comment for trying to give you a link, so... "Man [Jayce] hooks up with her [Mel] and then just dips and goes to Viktor. I think if you ask me, it seems like Jayce has a preference, for sure" "Do you think the whole time he was with her he was thinking about his boy? That's why it cut back to his boy?" "I don't know if I can say anything but-- I think I know which one he's chosen. Jayce and Mel is just a cover. We all know Jayce really loves Viktor. Come on, it's love" "I think it took him to having sex with her to know he really loved Viktor" -Animators talking about Mel, Jayce and Viktor. "It's a callback to what he used to have with Jayce at the beginning. That was sort of him putting that relationship he had with Jayce into the Sky character" -Amanda Overton about Viktor projecting Jayce to Hex-Sky.
Totally! Also given they depicted Jayce’s mom just like Viktor…the jawline, the mole…just like how Cait looks just like Vi’s mom 😂😂😂😂 I see the animation team is the biggest JayVik shipper lol
It got me so confused why ppl, for some reason, despise Jayce showing fragility in front of Mel and seeking comfort on her. It's just so cute and shows that men can be sensible, as women can offer protection too❤
Jayce putting his head on Mels lap for comfort is so sweet character trait! And so funny when she wasn't expecting it or their relationship to be like that just "wait, what are you doing?!" 😂 Anyway, Jayce has two hands for magical girlfriend and boyfriend 👌
been jayvik since day 1 like lets be real bro I get the brotherly friendship they wanted, but the thing is even though christian "confirmed" things but to be real I dont think he watched his own show 😭
arcane has become my new hyperfixation on a whole level i never knew could happen LMFAOOOOOOOOOO i honestly wasnt expecting to love a show based off league but here we are :D
What breaks my heart so much about Isha’s death is that it was USELESS. She was trying to kill Warwick and well….he still survived. Can’t anyone be happy in this damned show?!? Loved your analysis, I wish more media had gay until proven straight vibe.
Yeah, sadly her death being useless falls in line with the themes of the show, just like Powder's bombs were effectively useless back in Ep3. Going out of your way, by yourself, to do something heroic sometimes isn't always the best option. (it mostly isnt) This is also a lesson that Jinx learns, when she goes to find Vi, "We tried it alone, and things were never the same." But sadly Isha made the same mistake.
Isha didn't kill Warwick, but she did kill Vander before Vander was made to kill Jinx and Vi against his own wishes. What came back was not Vander anymore, it was just the husk of Warwick, brought back through Viktor's Glorious Evolution. But Jinx also learned why Vi told her to stay back when they were younger, by now being forced to be on the shoes of an older sister herself. It brought her clarity, which is why she decided to break the cycle of violence in the end. Isha's sacrifice is the catalyst for Jinx to be able to find peace.
Its interesting how different Perfect Worlds (tm) end up feeling if the creative team is largely queer or straight. She-ra and Steven Universe have a very different vibe than Korra and RWBY, which still feel pretty heteronormative despite being Perfect World settings
another arcane video to feed the hyperfixation! connie i’ve been following you since my early teen years and have always looked up to you as the kind of person i wanted to be when i grew up :,) fast forward to adulthood and i’m still here hanging onto your every word
a little note about League / the world of Runeterra: homophobia doesn’t exist within their world. so queerness isn’t stigmatized from the Jayce is bi truther
I commented on it before in other videos but I think that the censorship of LGBT content in primarily east asian countries has lead to a......unique subgenre. I first noticed this watching Untamed and Word of Honor on Netflix. Series based on popular, essentially Boy Love Wuxia comics but due to censorship can not show anything explicit in televsion.........but it still leads them to having shows with guys being in the most ROMANTIC kind of situations, but just not able to be able to show any kind of physical affection. To the point that characters will not only NOT have female love interests, but refer to their non explicit romantic guy companions as their 'partners' or 'eternal companion'. I think this is kind of what happened with Jayvik in Arcane. That there MAY have been a attempt to have the couple but, with LoL being really popular in countries with such censorship and with Arcane becoming the official lore of LoL, I think their hands were tied. They could edit the Caitlin x Vi content because it isn't integral to the plot of the show while the Jayce x Viktor relationship is so they had to come out and say 'What!? Jayce and Viktor in love? Man you guys are crazy! Please don't censor us'. Still, next to probably Hannigram this is probably one of my favorite MlM relationships in media as of late.
im tired of people saying " we view everything as gay" im sorry everyone has grown up with forced straight couples getting together. why is it so weird to see them as lover. its canon they lover each other and are soul mates
I personally like queerness being portrayed as queerness in stories, Idk as a queer person I feel kinda attached to my queerness, the ways in which I just defy the status quo on multiple levels (being trans nonbinary, somewhere on the aroace spectrum and otherwise bi) and I wouldn't want that part of myself to be erased. But I do appreciate "perfect world" narratives too, we definitely need both. I like how Arcane does it because it still shows some of the struggles but detaches them from what in our world would be the cause of them. This is not just about sexuality but other identities as well. For example Cait and Vis relationship has the issues that Caitlyns parents don't approve of Vi, which is reminiscent of parents being homophobic which allows people with similar situations to connect with it, but instead of being about sexuality this is a class thing. Similar with Ekko who could've been the token black hood kid, but since racism isn't really a thing and we see another black character in power, this aspect gets neutralized, the reason why Ekko is in this position is classism again. This way certain things we see in our world still get represented, so we don't lose anything, but they do get neutralized
I love Arcane so much. And I love Caitvi. And I absolutely need more media in which queerness is just a given and there is no struggle or discrimination attached to it. But of course, media set in worlds which do have struggle attached to queerness are also necessary so people who have faced discrimination because of their sexuality or gender identity feel seen, heard and represented. And most importantly, not alone.
this video was incredible!! you voiced so many thoughts I’ve been having but haven’t been able to put into words, and also pointed out things I hadn’t noticed as well. I love the genuine love you have for incredible art and beautifully told stories, thank you for sharing 🫶
It’s so incredibly lame that people get so worked up over Jayvik. Like you can see the relationship as platonic and other ppl can see it as romantic. It literally does not affect you. Multiple people who worked on the show have said they see Jayvik as romantic. It’s up for interpretation and that’s totally fine. Sorry you’re getting such stupid comments
Gorgeous video, I feel like you put into perfect terms how certain depictions of queerness in media is more impactful than others. Love that Fortiche also mentioned the whole “animating emotions” thing because I definitely feel that. Arcane has truly touched my heart I remember crying happy tears of gratitude while trying to sleep after finishing S2. JAYVIK GAMING!! 🔥🔥🔥🗣️💕💕🏳️🌈💕
Honestly so lucky I got to see them talk, it was deeply inspiring and heartwarming. They say don't meet your heroes, but definitely go see them give a presentation haha
very nice commentary as always, love to hear your take on any media, but there were too many tiktok videos inbetween that were making me distracted from the point you were trying to make.. one or two to make an example is okay but there are so many! if I wanted to see tiktoks I would just go on tiktok... this is my opinion tho maybe it's just a me problem, but I thought I'd comment because it may be a point of view that you didn't think of before....
Arcane has the luxury of telling lgbtq stories in such an ambigious way because the story is set in a world where homophobia doesn’t exist. You calling it “the perfect world” makes a lot of sense and I loved that you actually compared it to the sims 2 of all things! Prejudice is definitely a thing in Arcane world though, but it doesn’t seem to be directed towards gender and sexuality which is refreshing to say the least. I mean Piltover could actually become the city of progress because they weren’t using their time and resources on hating queer people lol 🤠
1:15 as a fan of arcane since 2021, a fan of the three main (popular ship pairings, also love MelJayce) Jayce being bi feels more in the realm of possibility within the show itself. I agree though, the show literally speaks for itself 😂 I love all the characters and their interactions. Though I wish Vi especially got more screen time :/ 2:14 I’m laughing, I had the reverse thing happen to me. Identified as bi for years as a teen, as a young adult realized I don’t have attraction to men, and I’m a lesbian. Either way, we Stan queer people here :>
The thing I love about arcane the most is simple: u can be a woman and physically strong.or a cripple scientists who is very smart and hot. U can be gay or streight or fucking anything and u don't need to even explain it.the oblt predejuce that is seen in arcane world is the conflicts of zaun and piltover
I liked CaitVi was done well,not forced,well written,natural chemistry. I also really liked Jinx & Ekko’s chemistry in both timelines. I am routing for #Timebomb as much as CaitVi, on Twitter there seems to be discourse that you have to choose one ship or the other. And shippers argue with each other for nothing, I don’t understand. Why can’t I like Jinx&Ekko get together & CaitVi at the same time. Social media is weird. 😂
I didnt think about it too deeply as i was busy binging the whole show in one night but the impression i got in season one when they put jayce getting it on with mel while viktor works his arse off in the dark lab by himself was that while jayce is leaving viktor behind or betraying him idk thats just how that specific scene translated to me
Absolutely agree. I won't deny that Jayce and Mel had genuine connection and feelings for each other, but at the same time, I see their relationship as a foil to the one between Jayce and Viktor. Like you said, they were directly compared to each other. The s*x scene didn't just play on its own like with Vi and Cait, but instead and its focus shared with Viktor. And that choice is a deliberate one
@@HinaTheBlue I agree with that but I still need someone to come out and explain the parallels between Viktor and Mel cause i saw somebody make a transition between when Mel gets her powers and when Viktor sees his new body, and they make the same movements. and there is so many of these kind of scenes in the show for Vik and Mel i dont really know what it's trying to say. like if we put Jayce aside.
@soldecle Mh 🤔🤔 I mean, the parallel wasn't made in the show, it was fan made, so I wouldn't read too much into it or think that the show wanted to compare the two characters with their new powers to each other. But I can kinda see why someone would. I think both of them always felt out of control or like their have no real agency without something or someone hindering them. For Mel, it was her mother, for Vik, it was his disease and disability. Once they went through drastic changes from outside sources, their found that agency, but with great costs to who they are, or rather, once were. They both found themselves in new, foreign bodies and both had to deal with sudden, drastic and involuntary change. I think those themes could connect those two
For my fellow Lesbians/Sapphics who are fans of this world there are 5 canon Lesbian Characters: Caitlyn, Diana, Leona, Neeko (also Genderfluid), and Vi. Other canon Sapphic characters include: Nami, Nidalee?, and Rell. Read up on those characters. My identity confuses people cause I'm an Agender Lesbian Woman who only likes Women (Cis and Trans) and Sapphic Aligned Nonbinary people. My sexuality is not fluid, but I respect those whose sexuality is. Also, I love playing Wild Rift. It's so much fun. I main Caitlyn, Ashe, and Jinx. I'm working on Swain, Diana, and Leona. I want to try Vi, Vladimir, Morgana, and Kayle. I just started playing TFT and LoR.
@SakuraSaskey oh absolutely, I've not been consciously avoiding it, just been saving it and now I'm a bit terrified to watch it given what I've heard has happened in it recently lol
only watched half a season of arcane but i will ALWAYS be seated for a connie glynn vid, ESPECIALLY on queer media by my favourite queer social media person
You need to make a dedicated video on the character arcs in Arcane! Especially because I felt like everyone had a great arc but Vi was sidelined in season 2 and I can't live with that cuz SHES MY FAVORITE
Oh yes I've seen this complaint a bunch. I've been trying to think about it from a writing perspective and I suppose there's a possibility they were looking at season 1 as Vi and season 2 as Jinx, but I also hold out hope that she will still be a significant character in future projects as I feel her story is not entirely wrapped up yet.
yeah same I really wish we see more of her in a future show or movie. And about your comment saying this was Jinx's season, funnily enough the creators said the exact opposite! Christian Linke (co-creator and exec producer) explicity advertised this as Vi's season in the promotional interviews leading upto release. Then later on in a tweet reply, he admitted the team was simply more interested in exploring other characters which is understandable but still really sad because her lack of agency this season gives credence to unwarranted hate. That's why I'd love to hear your thoughts on all this considering how well-put they already were in this video.
@@sainteagle4426 He also said that Vi, Caitlyn and Jinx were central to the story of S2. And I would say that only applies for maybe Act 1 and 2/3rds Act 2. After that it's the Viktor, Jayce, Mel and Ambessa show, with CaitVi especially suffering.
arcane is the best example of if you actually give artists the time and resources to create you'll have something beautiful and amazing in th end. watching arcane is like playing all of nintendos copy and paste mario games that are all the same boring slop but then getting to the one where they increased their budget for art and animation so it looked more like the movie like yes!!! pay the artists i want to watch more peak!!!
Arcane subtly but very clearly established how it could break rules of gender and sexuality by showing how Piltover/Zaun society normalizes two things: adoption, and matriarchs. We only get limited examples: Vander, Benzo, and Silco adopting the orphans; and the Kirriman/Medarda family legacies being passed through the female line for several generations, BUT!!! None of these situations warrant discussion by the characters. No one is treating these situations as special. If PATERNITY isn't the driving family focus, then queerness is a nonissue. Wouldn't that be nice?
While I don't deny the validity of the ship, personally I interpret it as a soulmate thing. Regardless of whether its romantic or platonic, though I do heavily lean into platonic myself.
I think it takes many incarnations throughout every parallel universe. Much like Jinx and Ekko were a couple in the AU, and just friends (and even enemies) in this reality, I think the same was true of Viktor and Jayce. I think the important thing is that these two men were bonded, and soulmates like you said.
Same. I actually prefer the platonic read because this way it shows the depths of platonic relationships and how friendships can be equally or even more valuable than romantic ones. Like someone being the most important person in someone's life doesn't mean it has to be a romantic thing. I also think if they wanted it to be romantic, they would've showed us undeniably like Cait and Vi
@@alexelion7084 but also how about more ambiguous and confusing relationships that we can also have in life? i rarely see those in media. when you're not completely sure if your feelings are platonic or romantic. the concept of soulmates is usually one of these not-so-easily defined bonds to me. the same goes for lifelong partners as they can constitute so many things. and both concepts are very romantic which has nothing to do with sexuality. it's basically everything all at once concept. connected in each universe, putting each other above anything, completing each other in a sense. that's like peak romanticism
@@alexelion7084 Stop. Just. Stop. You have that in Every. Single. Show. You are only saying this because it's a m/m relationship. Besides, people can be best-friends AND in a romantic relationship.
@martas.9804 The co creators said themselves that Jayce and Viktor are not romantically involved. People can ship whoever they want together but just because two people of the same sex care deeply for each other and show affection doesn't mean they have to be gay. I would argue that it's not super common in media for two straight men to be super close and affectionate because of "the need to be masculine"
She Ra is perfect also because in that World no one bats an eye on who is going with who. It is just part of the story. And yes I am so happy that Arcane used the bury your gays trope on Maddie just had to die.
while I do love arcane, how it handles relationships, and how jayvik blurs the lines of platonic and romantic love, I do believe at least one of the reasons jayvik wasn't explicitly romantic like caitvi is because there's still heavy stigma against mlm relationships (wlw relationships can still appeal to homophobes that sexualize women unfortunately)
This video is actually amazing, but I am saying this with complete sincerity. Someone reply to this. What is up with the Maddie joke? What is the slander bro at least I like Maddie she’s okay. She’s a character. I mean???
I think for some people it may have been as simple as the fact that she stepped between their ship - Cait and Vi - for a bit, and was coldly ready to kill Cait in the end. BUT... Personally, I recognized and disliked her from her first scene, when she called Vi "one of the good ones [from the undercity]" (an almost too-on-the-nose red flag) because I think that was perfect foreshadowing to what happened next: her going all in on the authoritarian crackdown Piltover enacted against the undercity. While other characters went with it as well, they did it with more visible reluctance and anguish about it at least; Maddie did not. She very much reminds me of people I know in real life who are friendly and sweet seeming but then will turn around and justify or even cheer on injustice that happens to people unlike themselves. Just my take though.
While I love all the shade being thrown at Maddie, let's also not forget to rail on Marcus. What a pathetic little loser. Also yessss Claggor's glow-up is insane.
I mean, when an entire ancestry in Runeterra is literally born out of humans finding animal-like beings hot, sexuality would be far from the most pressing cultural issue in said universe.
@@pattamon9432 He said Viktor and Jayce are Not gay and he pulled the disabled asexual trope for Vik. Despite other disabled characters fitting asexuality better. Presumably so people would stop shipping Jayvik, but that's just speculation.
@@carimeslockdownedtree2654 ok to be fair. I never thought Viktor to be as an ace person because he is disabled.Those were two different things, imo. Do you have a link to the interview in which christian linke said that? I am really curious about it
I'd still say Arcane didn't make Jayce and Viktor a proper couple because lesbians are way more socially acceptable. Didn't like their writing especially in the second season because while I understood the final decision many were probably confused if they didn't catch the subtle hints throughout the show.
Finally someone says it lol Also, Arcane already had to censor CaitVi. It'd be even worse with gay men because of countries that outlaw male homosexuality but not female homosexuality
I like the fact that Viktor is definitely on the aroace spectrum (I believe he was intentionally written as ace but there's a little aro coding in there as well) but he still has this deep love for Jayce. They're each other's most important person and love each other more than life itself. "Is it romantic or platonic?" it's love. It's love, it's love, it's love.
@ I’m aro ace too. Aro is a spectrum, there are people who are only partially aro. And I’m not saying it’s romantic or even that Viktor is aro. I’m saying it’s complicated and not the sort of thing you can put boundaries on. They barely figured out that they love each other, let alone what form that love takes.
for me this isn't even gay or romantic, this two are beyond what love means, jayce killed himself just to comfort viktor and go with his partner in a cosmic relationship
Jayce : sleeping with a woman and kind of being in a relationship with one. Fans: No, he's gay !!! He's gay because he saved the world with his friend, OK ?
they called me crazy and then their souls ended up bonding on the astral plane jayvik nation stays winning
@@PercabethLovernot fr i feel so vindicated
LITERALLY!!! I feel the same way I felt defending Jayce after he time traveled and killed viktor
Idk, I feel like if your show has on screen lesbian prison sex, you’re not allowed to later take the implied approach with the second gay couple. So I’ll keep them as brothers in my mind.
@@aguywithalotofopinions412 personally i wouldnt hallucinate my girlfriend turning into my "brother" but thats just #me
@@aguywithalotofopinions412 Does it also work like that with straight ships? Only one can exist in a single piece of media?
proud to say i was a jayvik shipper from day 1. ive been in these trenches for years
truly flying the flag (same) but also i love Jayce and Mel... like... Jayce has two hands...
@@ConnieGlynn30 jayce got the hands of bisexuality
respect to you XD cause I liked the shipp in season one, but wasnt a beliver until this season 2.
Me too! I saw Viktor focus on Jayce for the very first time and I was like: yep, they are soulmates.
Literally XD
VIKTOR NATION HOW WE FEELING🗣️🗣️‼️🗣️‼️‼️🗣️🗣️
Devastated 😍😍😍😍😍
@@ConnieGlynn30 You and the Jayvik shippers are basically accusing men who are vulnerable of being gay. I don't like that. We are perpetuating toxic masculinity. This actually doesn't help a lot with progress, just discourages men from being showing any kind of effeminate behaviors like caring for one another.
jayce, jaybe or jaybe not
Pretty great, just want to know where the implosion took him
I LVOE THAT
jayce and viktor astral wedding you will always be famous
I don't think the arcane universe would even have a word for gay/queer. People are just into who they're into. Their sexualities dont need labels and the arcane world just sees it as natural
I'm sure there are, but the difference is there's no negative connotation to it. It's not used to reduce someone's feminity or masculinity. No one made a big deal about Lest being trans. Just is
Actually canon! A few of the writers confirmed it
ahhhh omg yayyy
@@wait_thisisntmybedroom No they didn't.
@@nasheeanjel9967the words were used to differentiate between straight and queer people, in a world where there was never social stigma about sexuality, there wouldn’t be any word for that
I mean, we in the real world don’t have words for people that like tall people or fat people or short people or muscular people, those are just preferences that we don’t have a name for, that’s the same in lol, when it comes to sexuality, a character in league can be the gays to ever exist and still not call themselves gay because that word does exist in runeterra
I loveeee universes where sexuality is a given and no one questions it. In a movie setting it’s so much better when it’s the norm, because “the struggle” with coming out and being queer is over represented in movies I think. If there’s a queer character in media, usually their one role and one character trait is just their sexuality, coming to accept it is their only character development. Without focusing on that the characters have more time to develop and they exit the “token gay” storyline. Also the queer people feel more represented (and even the people against the idea have to accept it lol) I watched Arcane with my fairly conservative mom, and she accepted the CaitVi relationship, was mad at Maddie, and said that JayVik looked cute together haha
I also love that Riot writers explicitly said (if I remember correctly, don't make me look up that really old post) that in the world of Runeterra, sexism, racism and homophobia isn't present and will never be present. They tackle other, similar stuff (anti-mage mentality in Demacia etc.), but they don't want to put these issues in a fantasy setting, every kind of human is accepted.
@@arkangyal8024 I love that because it lets us focus on other forms of prejudice: nationalism, classism, ableism... which are so seldom addressed and still affect so many.
Agree. It's also why I like the world of Dragon Age. Same concept, everyone's just seemingly perfectly ok with everything (except Tevinter but it's a society obsessed with magical bloodlines so it was GOING to come up)
Let's be honest if either Viktor or Jayce was a woman 99% of the society would consider their story and ending as romance despite nothing else being changed and even though female-male friendships are really underrepresented in the media.
Maybe if it was another show, but it's Arcane. It's brilliant because it does bring innovative ideas, like platonic soul mates.
I think the biggest point is naturalize intimate male friendship since we now have a men crisis (suicid* because of loneliness).
I believe that interpreting every love interaction as sexuality is pretty homophobic ("What, did you embrace/kissed/cried in front of your male friend, dude?? That's gay"). Obviously, there is no problem if they're are not straight, but it's not the point of that final scene. It was a spiritual ascend. This interpretation of your doesn't make many sense to me.
@jessikacaroline72 wtf? innovative ideas like male friendship that has been there since always and exist in every single piece of media?
Suicide because of loneliness happens in every single group not only males and it has literally nothing to do with my point. If either of them was a woman you wouldn't have made this long paragraph to tell me how nobody should interpret them as romantic because you and everybody else would consider it romantic.
Also calling shipping a male couple homophobic and making a long paragraph how nobody should ship h because male friendship is so so underrepresented is what actually homophobic. You know what actually really underrepresented? Friendship between women and men. Intimate friendship especially yet I don't see people like you writing letters how timebomb should never be shipped because of that. That's pretty homophobic double standard you have.
@@jessikacaroline72Wtf? I made a single observation which is real that their story would be considered romantic if one of them was a woman despite nothing else being changed. That's an objective truth. Even though male/female friendship are underrepresented nobody cries how man and woman can't be perceived as romantic... At least I don't see arguing that timebomb is somehow bad because it perpetuates the stereotype that man and woman can't be intimate platonic friends
To which you decided to write several paragraphs how shipping a gay ship makes me somehow homophobic and how it push men to end themselves therefore my only your interpretation can be considered correct... Like wtf?
You're not beating homophobic allegations at all.
@@jessikacaroline72yeah it’s very discouraging for men when everything intimate is seen as gay or just sexual in general, you can give your friend a hug without being called gay,
Two people can deeply love each other and NOT be sexual or romantic, they’re just friends, and sometimes a friend will love you more then your sexual partner, it’s just a different kind of love
I get where you’re coming from, but you have to keep in mind that fandom spaces will always ship regardless of if it’s canon or not. That would defeat the purpose of shipping otherwise. Plus, there are so many platonic male friendships in media, while I can barely count canon mlm relationships in animated shows on one hand. So to say it’s homophobic for people to interpret them as gay is wild to me. Because it’s not taking anything away from the platonic relationship side. Many people that worked on the animation and voice acting for the series shipped Viktor and Jayce, which you can tell considering the fact there’s such a disconnect from Linke’s voiced opinions.
Regardless of whatever Jayce and Viktor’s relationship is I love it. They’re soulmates in every sense of the word regardless of if it’s platonic, romantic or something else entirely. These characters are so well written and I love it 😭 I really love how well both the writing and the animation seemed to portray it that way. You know when you look at characters and think “they’re soulmates”? I think that’s what their relationship is. Arcane does it so beautifully. Not everyone has to think of it like that ofc but it’s how I see it personally. I can see them being a romantic couple but I can also see them being platonic soulmates but soulmates nonetheless and I feel like there’s just something very charming about their relationship and how it’s portrayed regardless of what it is. I live for the amazing writing dude
what if i cried while reading this comment because it's so beautiful?
This is exactly how I feel about them
I absolutely agree. I have never interpreted them romantically myself, but I absolutely love their relationship
Jaybe... or jaybe not...
More like Jaybi am I right, heyyooo! 😂
I heard this in Viktor's voice
In the old lore of League, everyone was bi- until proven contrary.
okay, I can accept that!
AS SOON as Viktor and Jayce were on screen at the same time i no joke said "Now kiss"
Me as well.
the fight scene with robo viktor, for a second i thought viktor was going for a kiss
I think what makes Arcane's queer representation feel so natural is the same thing that makes its representation of strong female characters feel natural, as well. We can have Vi, Caitlyn, Mel, Jinx, and Ambessa filling traditionally masculine roles and doing such impressive things, but they never have to turn to the camera and remind us that "girls can do anything!" We're shown that they're complex, strong women who make mistakes and grow as people, and we don't have to be TOLD, which is often what makes other attempts at the same thing fall flat. When the issue is addressed so blatantly in a story that isn't fundamentally focused on it, it just feels like pandering instead of a real effort to tell a story about female empowerment. In Arcane, the writers respect us enough to see these empowered ladies and fill in the rest ourselves.
In other words, people don't feel like they're being preached or propagandized to.
Came here for Jayvik and stayed for your engaging personality and refreshing takes. Feels so much more lively than any other Arcane video essay I've watched. New subscriber!!
Awesome! Hello and welcome 🫶
i think people also forget that some relationships can be difficult to define - more ambiguous, more confusing, etc. and I love when I see something like this portrayed in the media. the concept of soulmates is usually one of these not-so-easily defined bonds to me. the same goes for lifelong partners as they can constitute so many things. and both concepts are very romantic which has nothing to do with sexuality necessarily. you don't need to put a category or a label on everything which is why I love fictional worlds where it's already this way by default.
I like that lot!
Thats just leaves me being sad because I want a soulmate like that.
:(
:D
Whatever Jayce and Viktor have going on, I can say with certainty that it is really intense.
I am so sad really life isn’t like this, my sexuality is so confusing to me which is why I refuse to “come out” because I DONT FUCKING KNOWWWW this needs to be the standard, thank u for talking about it 🕴️
Same thoughts exactly sis 👏😂
I absolutely see you and feel you. My experience of the world is fluid and constantly changing and it might not be the same for everyone but I know it is for so many others like us
Bro I feel you on so many levels
Man, this is so meeeeeeee!!!!! Glad that there are more ❤
My thing is, I don’t really see why it’s such a debate. Regardless of whether they’re platonic or romantic it’s very clear that what they share is a bond so deep that their whole world will literally be destroyed if they drift apart and will be saved if they stay together and choose to save it hand in hand. Like…regardless of what may or may not be cannon, what they share is a very deep love for one another, and I completely understand why people ship them. And they’re allowed to. Non-cannon ships are not this new concept. ESPECIALLY for queer ships. Harry and Draco. Edward and Jacob. Velma and Daphne. Sherlock and Watson. Gatsby and Nick. Elphaba and Glinda. Batman and the Joker. The list could go on and on and on.
I do understand the argument that “men should be able to show affection towards one another without everyone automatically insisting they’re gay”. And I agree.
But with that said, I view a lot of shipping as a “what if” rather than a “they are”. There are a lot of ships I enjoy where I know that cannoncially the characters might not be into a each other romantically. But I still like to ask “but what if they were”?
That’s how I view Viktor and Jayce. Maybe in cannon they’re just friends? I’m willing to accept that. That’s perfectly fine. But I also think it’s perfectly fine to wonder “What if they were a couple? What would that be like?”. And truthfully I don’t think much would even change. So I support the ship. I think it would be cute 🤷🏼♀️
In the end, people can argue all they want, but the imagination cannot be policed. People are going to ask “what if?”. And they’re allowed to. Tbh I feel like that’s just the natural progression of releasing any fictional media to the public. The public will take it and do what they like. So I say just sit back and enjoy it honestly. I’ve seen some GORGEOUS Jayvik artwork. These fans are talented. I may not be screaming from the rooftops they MUST be gay, but as a “what if” scenario I think it’s adorable and the fans should keep making fan work cuz I love it :)
Elphaba and Glinda are canon in the books
I've been in fandom for a long time. There's always going to be some people saying annoying things like "they're canon and if you don't agree you're homophobic." But for every one of those people, it feels like there's ten more saying "why can't men just be friends anymore?"
My brother in christ, there are countless examples in media of great male friendships, including Jayce and Victor. If the characters are canonically not together, it's not like the presence of shippers is going to threaten that. It just comes across as exceptionally weak to be that bothered by it.
@@burnedoutgraduatestudent4482 You’re right that there’s some romance between them. They kiss once I think. But I don’t remember them ending up together romantically.
i love caitvi and i know a lotttt of people didn’t like them in the end which sucks. their relationship is really complex and i do believe that people wanted a cute wholesome relationship between them. when realistically, their relationship is complicated and not simple. which is why i ended up loving them more instead. i hated it at first too and it felt weird as a ship, but i was like oh wait yeah this isn’t one of those lesbian high school couples in shows where the characters have a lot of cute moments with each other.
I could not agree MORE!!!!! It is so refreshing to see a lesbian couple where it isn't just 'look how perfect and cute they are' I love the mess, we deserve messy, intense relationships full of yearning that still get a happy ending!!!!
THIS! Let lesbians be messy and complicated! Let them struggle and live with traumas! While still persevering, surviving together and ending up happy together after everything! Straight couples get all that! Personally I'm tired of lesbian and queer couples in general being depicted all wholesome cutesy sunshine and rainbows constantly!
14:12 LOL jayce acting like this around mel was so funny to me shes such a queen
If I hear 50 people commenting "why can't male friendship just be that, co-creator said they're not romantic!" He said there's love, and other staff has talked about how much Jayce loves Viktor, speculated was Jayce thinking of Viktor while having sex with Mel (yes, really), and other co-creator talked a how Viktor projected his relationship with Jayce to Hex-Sky, there's so many parallels with Mel and Viktor with Jayce...They're gay.
It's a lot of details, but does anyone have a source? It sounds almost too good to be true lol
@@lis_t0k -_- I think youtube keeps deleting my comment for trying to give you a link, so...
"Man [Jayce] hooks up with her [Mel] and then just dips and goes to Viktor. I think if you ask me, it seems like Jayce has a preference, for sure"
"Do you think the whole time he was with her he was thinking about his boy? That's why it cut back to his boy?"
"I don't know if I can say anything but-- I think I know which one he's chosen. Jayce and Mel is just a cover. We all know Jayce really loves Viktor. Come on, it's love"
"I think it took him to having sex with her to know he really loved Viktor" -Animators talking about Mel, Jayce and Viktor.
"It's a callback to what he used to have with Jayce at the beginning. That was sort of him putting that relationship he had with Jayce into the Sky character" -Amanda Overton about Viktor projecting Jayce to Hex-Sky.
Totally! Also given they depicted Jayce’s mom just like Viktor…the jawline, the mole…just like how Cait looks just like Vi’s mom 😂😂😂😂 I see the animation team is the biggest JayVik shipper lol
It got me so confused why ppl, for some reason, despise Jayce showing fragility in front of Mel and seeking comfort on her. It's just so cute and shows that men can be sensible, as women can offer protection too❤
Jayce putting his head on Mels lap for comfort is so sweet character trait! And so funny when she wasn't expecting it or their relationship to be like that just "wait, what are you doing?!" 😂 Anyway, Jayce has two hands for magical girlfriend and boyfriend 👌
been jayvik since day 1 like lets be real bro I get the brotherly friendship they wanted, but the thing is even though christian "confirmed" things but to be real I dont think he watched his own show 😭
The best portrayal of a wlw relationship I’ve ever seen
It’s probably the second best imo, Lumity from TOH has to take the cake for me.
arcane has become my new hyperfixation on a whole level i never knew could happen LMFAOOOOOOOOOO i honestly wasnt expecting to love a show based off league but here we are :D
What breaks my heart so much about Isha’s death is that it was USELESS. She was trying to kill Warwick and well….he still survived. Can’t anyone be happy in this damned show?!?
Loved your analysis, I wish more media had gay until proven straight vibe.
She tried to stop what was happening, and stopped, as well as allowed Caitlin, Vai, Jinx and Jace to escape. So, it wasn't useless.
Yeah, sadly her death being useless falls in line with the themes of the show, just like Powder's bombs were effectively useless back in Ep3. Going out of your way, by yourself, to do something heroic sometimes isn't always the best option. (it mostly isnt) This is also a lesson that Jinx learns, when she goes to find Vi, "We tried it alone, and things were never the same." But sadly Isha made the same mistake.
@ So if you look at the whole thing, to some extent, it follows the path of Powder. So, alas, there was no other ending for her (
@@JohnSmithVGA 100% I knew Isha's fate from the beginning, because of how this show loves to repeat history.
Isha didn't kill Warwick, but she did kill Vander before Vander was made to kill Jinx and Vi against his own wishes. What came back was not Vander anymore, it was just the husk of Warwick, brought back through Viktor's Glorious Evolution.
But Jinx also learned why Vi told her to stay back when they were younger, by now being forced to be on the shoes of an older sister herself. It brought her clarity, which is why she decided to break the cycle of violence in the end. Isha's sacrifice is the catalyst for Jinx to be able to find peace.
Its interesting how different Perfect Worlds (tm) end up feeling if the creative team is largely queer or straight. She-ra and Steven Universe have a very different vibe than Korra and RWBY, which still feel pretty heteronormative despite being Perfect World settings
another arcane video to feed the hyperfixation!
connie i’ve been following you since my early teen years and have always looked up to you as the kind of person i wanted to be when i grew up :,) fast forward to adulthood and i’m still here hanging onto your every word
a little note about League / the world of Runeterra: homophobia doesn’t exist within their world. so queerness isn’t stigmatized
from the Jayce is bi truther
Okay but can we talk about Zaundads in the parallel universe?? 😭😭🙏
I commented on it before in other videos but I think that the censorship of LGBT content in primarily east asian countries has lead to a......unique subgenre. I first noticed this watching Untamed and Word of Honor on Netflix. Series based on popular, essentially Boy Love Wuxia comics but due to censorship can not show anything explicit in televsion.........but it still leads them to having shows with guys being in the most ROMANTIC kind of situations, but just not able to be able to show any kind of physical affection. To the point that characters will not only NOT have female love interests, but refer to their non explicit romantic guy companions as their 'partners' or 'eternal companion'.
I think this is kind of what happened with Jayvik in Arcane. That there MAY have been a attempt to have the couple but, with LoL being really popular in countries with such censorship and with Arcane becoming the official lore of LoL, I think their hands were tied. They could edit the Caitlin x Vi content because it isn't integral to the plot of the show while the Jayce x Viktor relationship is so they had to come out and say 'What!? Jayce and Viktor in love? Man you guys are crazy! Please don't censor us'. Still, next to probably Hannigram this is probably one of my favorite MlM relationships in media as of late.
im tired of people saying " we view everything as gay" im sorry everyone has grown up with forced straight couples getting together. why is it so weird to see them as lover. its canon they lover each other and are soul mates
No it's not.
@@XMissGXyes it is, shut up
I personally like queerness being portrayed as queerness in stories, Idk as a queer person I feel kinda attached to my queerness, the ways in which I just defy the status quo on multiple levels (being trans nonbinary, somewhere on the aroace spectrum and otherwise bi) and I wouldn't want that part of myself to be erased. But I do appreciate "perfect world" narratives too, we definitely need both.
I like how Arcane does it because it still shows some of the struggles but detaches them from what in our world would be the cause of them. This is not just about sexuality but other identities as well. For example Cait and Vis relationship has the issues that Caitlyns parents don't approve of Vi, which is reminiscent of parents being homophobic which allows people with similar situations to connect with it, but instead of being about sexuality this is a class thing. Similar with Ekko who could've been the token black hood kid, but since racism isn't really a thing and we see another black character in power, this aspect gets neutralized, the reason why Ekko is in this position is classism again. This way certain things we see in our world still get represented, so we don't lose anything, but they do get neutralized
Oh absolutely I so agree, we need a bit of everything and all types of stories. Thanks for the thoughtful comment
Well now I guess I need to finish Arcane because I had no idea about Jace and Viktor, and now I need to know about this emotional damage.
Prepare to suffer 🤌🤌
No one gonna talk about that look claggor gives mylo in the alternate universe like they def be dating
They're brothers
i feel like you just opened my third eye
OH WAIT THEY'RE BROTHERS I LITERALLY FORGOT LMFAO
@@ConnieGlynn30 they are like honorary brothers in the first season but that look was weird
Honestly I don't care if Jayce and Viktor are gay. I just love their relationship, whether it's romantic or platonic I don't care.
SHE. KNOWS.
I know all baby
I love Arcane so much. And I love Caitvi. And I absolutely need more media in which queerness is just a given and there is no struggle or discrimination attached to it. But of course, media set in worlds which do have struggle attached to queerness are also necessary so people who have faced discrimination because of their sexuality or gender identity feel seen, heard and represented. And most importantly, not alone.
summed it up so beautifully
I just adore your star hair clips! ☆
thank you kindly
this video was incredible!! you voiced so many thoughts I’ve been having but haven’t been able to put into words, and also pointed out things I hadn’t noticed as well. I love the genuine love you have for incredible art and beautifully told stories, thank you for sharing 🫶
I felt the CONNECTION FROM THE VERY BEGINNING. MY DREAMS CAME TRUE THIS SEASON
14:04 Nooo why'd you have to put this idea in my minddd now I won't be able to stop imagining it for the next few hours 😭
It’s so incredibly lame that people get so worked up over Jayvik. Like you can see the relationship as platonic and other ppl can see it as romantic. It literally does not affect you. Multiple people who worked on the show have said they see Jayvik as romantic. It’s up for interpretation and that’s totally fine. Sorry you’re getting such stupid comments
Can you imagine how many anti-woke agenda videos there would be if the show wasnt excellent?
Such a great series!!
I really truly believe it's going to massively change the game for how people view cartoons / animation
Gorgeous video, I feel like you put into perfect terms how certain depictions of queerness in media is more impactful than others. Love that Fortiche also mentioned the whole “animating emotions” thing because I definitely feel that. Arcane has truly touched my heart I remember crying happy tears of gratitude while trying to sleep after finishing S2. JAYVIK GAMING!! 🔥🔥🔥🗣️💕💕🏳️🌈💕
Honestly so lucky I got to see them talk, it was deeply inspiring and heartwarming. They say don't meet your heroes, but definitely go see them give a presentation haha
I love this so much. You put everything I think and want to say in a coherent message
Arcane's theme in two words: Love Hurts.
very nice commentary as always, love to hear your take on any media, but there were too many tiktok videos inbetween that were making me distracted from the point you were trying to make.. one or two to make an example is okay but there are so many! if I wanted to see tiktoks I would just go on tiktok... this is my opinion tho maybe it's just a me problem, but I thought I'd comment because it may be a point of view that you didn't think of before....
Arcane has the luxury of telling lgbtq stories in such an ambigious way because the story is set in a world where homophobia doesn’t exist. You calling it “the perfect world” makes a lot of sense and I loved that you actually compared it to the sims 2 of all things! Prejudice is definitely a thing in Arcane world though, but it doesn’t seem to be directed towards gender and sexuality which is refreshing to say the least. I mean Piltover could actually become the city of progress because they weren’t using their time and resources on hating queer people lol 🤠
I love your makeup ! 💖
1:15 as a fan of arcane since 2021, a fan of the three main (popular ship pairings, also love MelJayce)
Jayce being bi feels more in the realm of possibility within the show itself. I agree though, the show literally speaks for itself 😂
I love all the characters and their interactions. Though I wish Vi especially got more screen time :/
2:14 I’m laughing, I had the reverse thing happen to me. Identified as bi for years as a teen, as a young adult realized I don’t have attraction to men, and I’m a lesbian. Either way, we Stan queer people here :>
This is the first video of yours that I've seen and i'm going to go watch more.
i love to hear it
I was at the We Are Playgrounds talk too! And it sent me down a path of complete and all consuming Arcane hyperfixation!!! Augh!!!!!
The thing I love about arcane the most is simple: u can be a woman and physically strong.or a cripple scientists who is very smart and hot. U can be gay or streight or fucking anything and u don't need to even explain it.the oblt predejuce that is seen in arcane world is the conflicts of zaun and piltover
I am so happy I found your channel again I remember watching you back in noodlerella days!
I liked CaitVi was done well,not forced,well written,natural chemistry. I also really liked Jinx & Ekko’s chemistry in both timelines. I am routing for #Timebomb as much as CaitVi, on Twitter there seems to be discourse that you have to choose one ship or the other. And shippers argue with each other for nothing, I don’t understand. Why can’t I like Jinx&Ekko get together & CaitVi at the same time. Social media is weird. 😂
This! Shipping discourse is so dumb, why can't people just let other people enjoy things 😭
@ 🥰💕 agree
I didnt think about it too deeply as i was busy binging the whole show in one night but the impression i got in season one when they put jayce getting it on with mel while viktor works his arse off in the dark lab by himself was that while jayce is leaving viktor behind or betraying him idk thats just how that specific scene translated to me
I could see this, like choosing Mel translates to choosing to move away from the ideals that Victor and Jayce had together
Absolutely agree. I won't deny that Jayce and Mel had genuine connection and feelings for each other, but at the same time, I see their relationship as a foil to the one between Jayce and Viktor. Like you said, they were directly compared to each other. The s*x scene didn't just play on its own like with Vi and Cait, but instead and its focus shared with Viktor. And that choice is a deliberate one
@@HinaTheBlue I agree with that but I still need someone to come out and explain the parallels between Viktor and Mel cause i saw somebody make a transition between when Mel gets her powers and when Viktor sees his new body, and they make the same movements.
and there is so many of these kind of scenes in the show for Vik and Mel i dont really know what it's trying to say. like if we put Jayce aside.
@soldecle Mh 🤔🤔 I mean, the parallel wasn't made in the show, it was fan made, so I wouldn't read too much into it or think that the show wanted to compare the two characters with their new powers to each other.
But I can kinda see why someone would. I think both of them always felt out of control or like their have no real agency without something or someone hindering them. For Mel, it was her mother, for Vik, it was his disease and disability. Once they went through drastic changes from outside sources, their found that agency, but with great costs to who they are, or rather, once were. They both found themselves in new, foreign bodies and both had to deal with sudden, drastic and involuntary change. I think those themes could connect those two
It definitely reads like an infidelity scene. You’re not the only one who noticed that
mentioning the sims 2 and baldur's gate 3 in 10 seconds span in arcane video? I've found my people
oh my goodness i thought you looked familiar and i realized i used to watch your anime impressions years ago!!
For my fellow Lesbians/Sapphics who are fans of this world there are 5 canon Lesbian Characters: Caitlyn, Diana, Leona, Neeko (also Genderfluid), and Vi. Other canon Sapphic characters include: Nami, Nidalee?, and Rell. Read up on those characters.
My identity confuses people cause I'm an Agender Lesbian Woman who only likes Women (Cis and Trans) and Sapphic Aligned Nonbinary people. My sexuality is not fluid, but I respect those whose sexuality is.
Also, I love playing Wild Rift. It's so much fun. I main Caitlyn, Ashe, and Jinx. I'm working on Swain, Diana, and Leona. I want to try Vi, Vladimir, Morgana, and Kayle. I just started playing TFT and LoR.
MYLOxCLAGGOR S2 E7 fr it wasn't hidden at all def cannon
Maddie sleeps with Caitlyn she is def there as well
@@content_splash_flowMaddie, Mylo, and Claggor aren't in League of Legends tho, they were talking about that.
Have not seen a single second of Arcane and i am ready to be educated
You absolutely need to watch it, if anything it’s a beautifully animated tv show
@SakuraSaskey oh absolutely, I've not been consciously avoiding it, just been saving it and now I'm a bit terrified to watch it given what I've heard has happened in it recently lol
@@Rozitaaah that’s fair! At least you’ll be emotionally prepared ahead of time, and you’ll get trauma bond with the rest of the fandom lmao
only watched half a season of arcane but i will ALWAYS be seated for a connie glynn vid, ESPECIALLY on queer media by my favourite queer social media person
You need to make a dedicated video on the character arcs in Arcane! Especially because I felt like everyone had a great arc but Vi was sidelined in season 2 and I can't live with that cuz SHES MY FAVORITE
Oh yes I've seen this complaint a bunch. I've been trying to think about it from a writing perspective and I suppose there's a possibility they were looking at season 1 as Vi and season 2 as Jinx, but I also hold out hope that she will still be a significant character in future projects as I feel her story is not entirely wrapped up yet.
@@ConnieGlynn30Christian Linke tweeted that the writers just lost interest in writing for Vi.
yeah same I really wish we see more of her in a future show or movie. And about your comment saying this was Jinx's season, funnily enough the creators said the exact opposite!
Christian Linke (co-creator and exec producer) explicity advertised this as Vi's season in the promotional interviews leading upto release. Then later on in a tweet reply, he admitted the team was simply more interested in exploring other characters which is understandable but still really sad because her lack of agency this season gives credence to unwarranted hate. That's why I'd love to hear your thoughts on all this considering how well-put they already were in this video.
@@sainteagle4426 He also said that Vi, Caitlyn and Jinx were central to the story of S2. And I would say that only applies for maybe Act 1 and 2/3rds Act 2.
After that it's the Viktor, Jayce, Mel and Ambessa show, with CaitVi especially suffering.
@@gustavgustav2670 yup, the entire storyline could've benefitted from either another act or just a third season
arcane is the best example of if you actually give artists the time and resources to create you'll have something beautiful and amazing in th end. watching arcane is like playing all of nintendos copy and paste mario games that are all the same boring slop but then getting to the one where they increased their budget for art and animation so it looked more like the movie like yes!!! pay the artists i want to watch more peak!!!
the unhinged tiktok inserts make me feel less crazy
Arcane subtly but very clearly established how it could break rules of gender and sexuality by showing how Piltover/Zaun society normalizes two things: adoption, and matriarchs. We only get limited examples: Vander, Benzo, and Silco adopting the orphans; and the Kirriman/Medarda family legacies being passed through the female line for several generations, BUT!!! None of these situations warrant discussion by the characters. No one is treating these situations as special. If PATERNITY isn't the driving family focus, then queerness is a nonissue. Wouldn't that be nice?
14:05 I just put this here...I think you're right/can be right if we put them in categories :'D
Was your microphone plugged in? The volume is playing extremely low on my end so just giving you a heads up
AHHHHH AN ARCANE VIDEO???? I LOVE WINNING!!! 😭😭😭 also have u ever watched interview with the vampire the tv series?? if so what was ur opinion on it
Noooooo I MUST watch it it’s high up on my list
@ ahhhh ur going to LOVE IT!!!! cant wait for the review 🤭🤭🤭
I love so much your videos and Arcane is such a good series!!!!
Thanks my love
I love that we got reverse Korasami (but no kidding jayvic was way better developed)
I mean except there wasn't and both examples are awful for opposite reasons
While I don't deny the validity of the ship, personally I interpret it as a soulmate thing. Regardless of whether its romantic or platonic, though I do heavily lean into platonic myself.
I think it takes many incarnations throughout every parallel universe. Much like Jinx and Ekko were a couple in the AU, and just friends (and even enemies) in this reality, I think the same was true of Viktor and Jayce. I think the important thing is that these two men were bonded, and soulmates like you said.
Same. I actually prefer the platonic read because this way it shows the depths of platonic relationships and how friendships can be equally or even more valuable than romantic ones. Like someone being the most important person in someone's life doesn't mean it has to be a romantic thing. I also think if they wanted it to be romantic, they would've showed us undeniably like Cait and Vi
@@alexelion7084 but also how about more ambiguous and confusing relationships that we can also have in life? i rarely see those in media. when you're not completely sure if your feelings are platonic or romantic. the concept of soulmates is usually one of these not-so-easily defined bonds to me. the same goes for lifelong partners as they can constitute so many things. and both concepts are very romantic which has nothing to do with sexuality. it's basically everything all at once concept. connected in each universe, putting each other above anything, completing each other in a sense. that's like peak romanticism
@@alexelion7084 Stop. Just. Stop. You have that in Every. Single. Show. You are only saying this because it's a m/m relationship. Besides, people can be best-friends AND in a romantic relationship.
@martas.9804 The co creators said themselves that Jayce and Viktor are not romantically involved. People can ship whoever they want together but just because two people of the same sex care deeply for each other and show affection doesn't mean they have to be gay. I would argue that it's not super common in media for two straight men to be super close and affectionate because of "the need to be masculine"
She Ra is perfect also because in that World no one bats an eye on who is going with who. It is just part of the story. And yes I am so happy that Arcane used the bury your gays trope on Maddie just had to die.
I think the locked tomb series by tamsyn miur has similar queer dynamics that people who like this series would love to explore.
defo 100% i hope people see this comment!!!!!
while I do love arcane, how it handles relationships, and how jayvik blurs the lines of platonic and romantic love, I do believe at least one of the reasons jayvik wasn't explicitly romantic like caitvi is because there's still heavy stigma against mlm relationships (wlw relationships can still appeal to homophobes that sexualize women unfortunately)
Poor Mel and Sky...
“Out of context, it’s a very horrible scene to watch”
Bruh it’s even worse WITH context 😭
i love viktor sm it’s not even funny, anyways are u gonna do the tradition of a room tour (please i’m begging🙏🙏)
This video is actually amazing, but I am saying this with complete sincerity. Someone reply to this. What is up with the Maddie joke? What is the slander bro at least I like Maddie she’s okay. She’s a character. I mean???
I think it's just become a fandom in joke to hate on Maddie to an extreme extent (at least for me)
I think for some people it may have been as simple as the fact that she stepped between their ship - Cait and Vi - for a bit, and was coldly ready to kill Cait in the end. BUT...
Personally, I recognized and disliked her from her first scene, when she called Vi "one of the good ones [from the undercity]" (an almost too-on-the-nose red flag) because I think that was perfect foreshadowing to what happened next: her going all in on the authoritarian crackdown Piltover enacted against the undercity. While other characters went with it as well, they did it with more visible reluctance and anguish about it at least; Maddie did not. She very much reminds me of people I know in real life who are friendly and sweet seeming but then will turn around and justify or even cheer on injustice that happens to people unlike themselves.
Just my take though.
you can fix her 😅😅✌️
I don’t care what anyone says..Jayce loved Victor more than he ever loved Mel
Over 1k hours between my partner and I into Baldur's Gate here, it EATS up all your free time in the best possible way 😂
Arcane was hands-down THE best show ever imo.
While I love all the shade being thrown at Maddie, let's also not forget to rail on Marcus. What a pathetic little loser.
Also yessss Claggor's glow-up is insane.
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
exactly exactly
I can't wait to make my own corporation to throw money at artists just to make whatever they want.
I mean, when an entire ancestry in Runeterra is literally born out of humans finding animal-like beings hot, sexuality would be far from the most pressing cultural issue in said universe.
YAAAAAAAAAAAS
don’t do this to me rn
AHSSGAGSHSAJ I LOVE THEM
HOLY FUCK I USED TO WATCH YOU RELIGIOUSLY WHEN I WAS LIKE 11 OR 12 - IM 21 😭😭😭
No way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I took a big break but came back to youtube this year, welcome home my child
Christian Linke would argue you for sure lol take this man away from future projects
What do you mean?
@@pattamon9432 He said Viktor and Jayce are Not gay and he pulled the disabled asexual trope for Vik. Despite other disabled characters fitting asexuality better. Presumably so people would stop shipping Jayvik, but that's just speculation.
@@carimeslockdownedtree2654 I dont think it is a trope. I am pretty sure Viktor is ace. Everything about him screams that.
@pattamon9432 I'm just saying what other disabled people have expressed. They know better than I do, as a not-physically-disabled person.
@@carimeslockdownedtree2654 ok to be fair. I never thought Viktor to be as an ace person because he is disabled.Those were two different things, imo. Do you have a link to the interview in which christian linke said that? I am really curious about it
I'd still say Arcane didn't make Jayce and Viktor a proper couple because lesbians are way more socially acceptable. Didn't like their writing especially in the second season because while I understood the final decision many were probably confused if they didn't catch the subtle hints throughout the show.
Finally someone says it lol
Also, Arcane already had to censor CaitVi. It'd be even worse with gay men because of countries that outlaw male homosexuality but not female homosexuality
wait, you're not a lesbian anymore??
Back in the bisexual land 🥂
LETS GOOOO🎉❤
well, you write it for me! 😂 initially jarring to realise ones thoughts exists elsewhere across the planet 😂💗
@ that’s the most wholesome and heartwarming comment I’ve ever had under one of mine, thank you sm 💕🥹
dw jayce i’ll take ur girl while ur busy with viktor 😞💔
also connie i feel u i too have had every sexuality 😭
First 🎉
WOOHOO
I like the fact that Viktor is definitely on the aroace spectrum (I believe he was intentionally written as ace but there's a little aro coding in there as well) but he still has this deep love for Jayce. They're each other's most important person and love each other more than life itself. "Is it romantic or platonic?" it's love. It's love, it's love, it's love.
Nope just platonic not romantic, as an aroace I don't experience romantic love towards anyone that's what aro means 🤦♀
@ I’m aro ace too. Aro is a spectrum, there are people who are only partially aro. And I’m not saying it’s romantic or even that Viktor is aro. I’m saying it’s complicated and not the sort of thing you can put boundaries on. They barely figured out that they love each other, let alone what form that love takes.
He is not asexual.his line is wait a minute its not my bedroom😂a single writer can not decide a whole character sexuality
@ Ace people can make sex jokes too.
@@nomisunrider6472 yeah but not viktor🤷🏻♀️he is not asexual
for me this isn't even gay or romantic, this two are beyond what love means, jayce killed himself just to comfort viktor and go with his partner in a cosmic relationship
thats pretty romantic tho, to be with someone forever
Here me out jayce, Victor, and mel 😍
Jayce the bi, mel the straight, Victor is the gay
Victor is not gay. Mostly likely aroace.
Jayce : sleeping with a woman and kind of being in a relationship with one.
Fans: No, he's gay !!! He's gay because he saved the world with his friend, OK ?
Just wait until they realise you can be friends with someone without being romantic