No war game has ever made me want to learn more about it than Infinity. This is apex tabletop game imo I have to say as a newer player your content is apex content. Hugely appreciate you sharing your perspective Would love more depth and content on defense AND impact of reinforcements on defense
200% agree with this explanation. With some other best players in France we are working on French podcast about preparing scenarios, building list, deployment and turn 1, so we can find some confirmation or inspirations in your video. Thanks
Really nice video, thank you. I think it would be beneficial when you are talking about defensive capabilities of list to show two similar lists and compere one with solid defensive tools and one lacking. On number of models in second group: I play ramah and and when I was learning I tried 10:5. I like to put Carmen in second group because on first turn I usually need about two smokes to move but on the second turn sometimes I play her more aggressively and then change her group. But i had few times situation when my opponent hurt some pieces in G1 but only to unconscious state. So I had to spent too many tokens to move her. So now I mostly play 9:6 It also gives some flexibility: you can move something (for example TAG) from smaller group to bigger at the beginning of the game if there is some unexpected opening.
Glad you brought up G2 TAGs. It's been surprisingly effective with my Zeta - great for clearing AROs and letting something like a Roadbot or Raptor move up the board with the larger G1 order pool, while still giving 6-7 orders of shooting.
Great content! Been playing for a year and often feel like I struggle writing solid lists. Will definitely be using these as building blocks during list design to try and improve!!
As much as I love your battle reports, these latest theory videos have been so beyond brilliant. Been taking a lot of notes and writing summaries, I definitely feel like you're helping me understand the game better. Thoroughly appreciate it.
I'm excited for the rest of the series. I especially liked your sentiment on how having more experience with a suboptimal piece than your opponent has against it can outweigh the statistical disadvantage of the piece. I think that gets lost so much in online discussions about profiles. One super tiny piece of nitpicking that I'll indulge in as a linguist: The new Starmada unit actually uses the Esperanto word for "shark", which is pronounced the same way as in English. So it's [Sharko], not [Sarko] :) I'll take my smartypants off now...
As of now in N5 there is another reason to put your tag in the 2nd group: orders can only be stripped from groups that have more than ten, so by putting a tac aware tag into a group with nine other troops will make that group vulnerable.
@@R0bertShepherd Yes, I got it twisted. It's still unclear though if it's based on the contents of the list or order count i.e. are AD/HD troops counted towards the 10 orders limit or not since their existence is hidden information.
@@shobooknight it's orders in the army list, so that includes hidden deployment and combat jump. Your opponent won't know exactly how many orders you have present but they can still attempt to (and then be allowed to) strip orders, is my read of the rule.
Love the channel and the content as I'm a new player (10 games in). When list building, do you factor how much does the missions dictate the units you include? Do you have a core army list which is always used and you tailor additional units as needed per the mission. Looking forward to the rest of this series. The table setup video was brilliant as well!
I tend to find I try to dial in one list that can do all the missions (or at least has a plan for them, even if that plan is 'annihilation my way to a minor victory'). However, that's in large part because I tend to play a new faction for each event, and in terms of limited practice time, getting just one list down minimises how much I have to learn. By comparison, If you're a newer player, you should definitely start out spending more time getting to know one chosen faction with more depth. In this case it's definitely fine to start by building a core army list that you're comfortable with, but from there you want to start branching out and experimenting - seeing how different missions can be tailored for in different ways.
@@R0bertShepherd Thanks for the reply. I'm playing around with SC at the moment which is a challenge in itself, but having fun and experimenting. I have a Core list which has scope to tweeked to better suit the missions. Really like you CANCON Tohaa list and the way it performed, might have to try that at some point.
Really enjoyed this it gave me something to think about as a newer player desperately trying to get people to stop playing 40k. One thing I need to ask is you mentioned about suppressing things with TAGs. I'm assuming this has nothing to do with the suppressing profile and is more the fact that people don't want to poke their heads out for ARO because don't want to attract attention?
Yes, exactly that. Firepower that either neutralises enemy ARO pieces, forces them to guts prone, or is threatening enough that they don't stick their heads out in the first place. :)
@@liamhoward9027 it's definitely one of the most important rules in the game - if you're new, one of the things to remember is that voluntarily failing your guts can be one of the best moves you can take.
So, why use Tohaa as an example, when it's likely the least played faction and likely least well known due to the pieces being OOP. I am new (with maybe 30 games under my belt) and most of Tohaa still reads like a Chinese takeaway menu to me. That said, the other two examples you had were on point and easy to follow.
To be honest I used Tohaa because I added that slide last after I realised I probably needed an example and had already used Haqq, Nomads and PanO lists for another slide. I thought about Dashat but didn't have a list that quite worked for the example but was at least confident in Tohaa as an example of defend-first. But I appreciate that the entire faction reads like a setup for a Ligma joke to most people.
Hey, interesting video. There is a lot of information for me as a beginner. I have been playing Infinity with a friend of mine probably 7 years ago, when it was in second edition. And I still have Operation:Icestorm, so we both have 7 miniatures. We are thinking of buying Szalamandra Squadron with Booster Pack Beta for Nomads, and Cutters with Booster Pack Beta for PanOceania. Tags because we like big robots, and booster packs which sound good for start with quite nice miniatures. There are so many options, and I'm not sure what would be the best for us. I should mention that we don't have any tournaments in our town, and we could play only one with another, so it would be nice if our armies would be versatile and balanced. What would you recommend to buy for N4? Probably we need something around 400 points to play comfortably?
That's a really good question. If you were starting from scratch I'd have suggested the faction Action Packs, but they actually have a lot of overlap with Operation Icestorm. So instead I think I'd suggest for each faction you grab a remotes pack, and then for Nomads maybe the Booster Pack Alpha, and for PanO a few models of equivalent value (PanO's booster packs both overlap with Icestorm, but you can get pieces individually). Play whatever points level that will let you to start with, and take it from there, moving up to 300pts over time. Something to remember is that Infinity really wants you to paint up a small force but use models as proxies for other models from time to time, so what you really want are a collection of pieces that are versatile enough for each of you to experiment. A mix of light and heavy infantry, that sort of thing. If you're both starting, TAGs are probably the last thing on the list to buy. They'll be good to add eventually (when you're playing at 300pts) but TAGs are big, focal pieces and when you're learning, having a piece makes the game so much about it will give you a skewed experience. Definitely get one (probably for each faction), but down the line.
Eh, we do have: - Beasthunter - Nökk Minelayer & Hacker options - Vargar HRL & the K1 Marksman/Minelayer, especially if your opponent brought visor units as the primary big attack pieces - Karhu Feuerbach in a 4-unit link - Nisse Sniper in a 4-unit link (Machinist & Uma Sorense count as Nisses, making this much more viable) - Böyg ML, exceptional potential for making your opponent waste orders as they dodge on 16s - Knight of Justice hacker ...and general typical PanO options of - Defensively deployed Peacemakers - Fugazis - Sierra - Spotlight ARO/Designated KHD casualty Fusilier hacker Granted, some of the choices are very situational (Karhu suffers against even MSV1, Böyg suffer against any kind of smoke shooting or mimetism, Vargar are not very good if your opponent has no visors etc) but what in this game isn't?
@@slingshotmaster99 He's not a defensive piece unless you're final turn putting everything out on ARO. The Karhu FB's main strength is dice advantage from its spicy HMG plus the mimetism further compounding any AROs without visors. So you're counting heavily on the dice to shield him from being shocked off the table. In reactive he loses that, and just becomes a 35pt 1.5swc not-shock-immune sitting duck.
No war game has ever made me want to learn more about it than Infinity. This is apex tabletop game imo
I have to say as a newer player your content is apex content. Hugely appreciate you sharing your perspective
Would love more depth and content on defense AND impact of reinforcements on defense
As a fairly new player this was one of the clearest breakdowns of what makes a good second group. Thanks a million!
200% agree with this explanation. With some other best players in France we are working on French podcast about preparing scenarios, building list, deployment and turn 1, so we can find some confirmation or inspirations in your video. Thanks
Another not so small piece in the mosaic that is Infinity!
Really nice video, thank you.
I think it would be beneficial when you are talking about defensive capabilities of list to show two similar lists and compere one with solid defensive tools and one lacking.
On number of models in second group:
I play ramah and and when I was learning I tried 10:5. I like to put Carmen in second group because on first turn I usually need about two smokes to move but on the second turn sometimes I play her more aggressively and then change her group. But i had few times situation when my opponent hurt some pieces in G1 but only to unconscious state. So I had to spent too many tokens to move her. So now I mostly play 9:6
It also gives some flexibility: you can move something (for example TAG) from smaller group to bigger at the beginning of the game if there is some unexpected opening.
Glad you brought up G2 TAGs. It's been surprisingly effective with my Zeta - great for clearing AROs and letting something like a Roadbot or Raptor move up the board with the larger G1 order pool, while still giving 6-7 orders of shooting.
Great content! Been playing for a year and often feel like I struggle writing solid lists. Will definitely be using these as building blocks during list design to try and improve!!
As much as I love your battle reports, these latest theory videos have been so beyond brilliant. Been taking a lot of notes and writing summaries, I definitely feel like you're helping me understand the game better. Thoroughly appreciate it.
This was great ! Food for thoughts even for old players !
I'm excited for the rest of the series. I especially liked your sentiment on how having more experience with a suboptimal piece than your opponent has against it can outweigh the statistical disadvantage of the piece. I think that gets lost so much in online discussions about profiles.
One super tiny piece of nitpicking that I'll indulge in as a linguist: The new Starmada unit actually uses the Esperanto word for "shark", which is pronounced the same way as in English. So it's [Sharko], not [Sarko] :) I'll take my smartypants off now...
very nice guide. keep it up!
Fantastic videos! very much helpful
Can't wait to see more of these.
Would love to get more of your insights into the game!
As of now in N5 there is another reason to put your tag in the 2nd group: orders can only be stripped from groups that have more than ten, so by putting a tac aware tag into a group with nine other troops will make that group vulnerable.
You may want to re-read that rule. Orders can only be stripped from *army lists* that have more than ten orders. Not combat groups.
@@R0bertShepherd Yes, I got it twisted. It's still unclear though if it's based on the contents of the list or order count i.e. are AD/HD troops counted towards the 10 orders limit or not since their existence is hidden information.
@@shobooknight it's orders in the army list, so that includes hidden deployment and combat jump. Your opponent won't know exactly how many orders you have present but they can still attempt to (and then be allowed to) strip orders, is my read of the rule.
Thanks! Exactly what i was hoping for!
Thanks for doing these videos as I'm just getting back into Infinity, been away for a long time and find your videos an excellent resource.
Great video(as usual)! Funny thinkg, yesterday i was talikng with a new player about your video, hoping in a video like this ^^
Really interesting breakdown, thanks
Fascinating breakdown putting into words why I would look at a bunch of my lists and go this feels wrong
Oh man lovin' this series 🥳
thx again Rob! great job
Love the channel and the content as I'm a new player (10 games in). When list building, do you factor how much does the missions dictate the units you include? Do you have a core army list which is always used and you tailor additional units as needed per the mission. Looking forward to the rest of this series. The table setup video was brilliant as well!
I tend to find I try to dial in one list that can do all the missions (or at least has a plan for them, even if that plan is 'annihilation my way to a minor victory'). However, that's in large part because I tend to play a new faction for each event, and in terms of limited practice time, getting just one list down minimises how much I have to learn.
By comparison, If you're a newer player, you should definitely start out spending more time getting to know one chosen faction with more depth. In this case it's definitely fine to start by building a core army list that you're comfortable with, but from there you want to start branching out and experimenting - seeing how different missions can be tailored for in different ways.
@@R0bertShepherd Thanks for the reply. I'm playing around with SC at the moment which is a challenge in itself, but having fun and experimenting. I have a Core list which has scope to tweeked to better suit the missions. Really like you CANCON Tohaa list and the way it performed, might have to try that at some point.
Really enjoyed this it gave me something to think about as a newer player desperately trying to get people to stop playing 40k.
One thing I need to ask is you mentioned about suppressing things with TAGs. I'm assuming this has nothing to do with the suppressing profile and is more the fact that people don't want to poke their heads out for ARO because don't want to attract attention?
Yes, exactly that. Firepower that either neutralises enemy ARO pieces, forces them to guts prone, or is threatening enough that they don't stick their heads out in the first place. :)
@@R0bertShepherd I often forget guts is a thing I play Aleph and the guy I'm learning with is playing haqq
@@liamhoward9027 it's definitely one of the most important rules in the game - if you're new, one of the things to remember is that voluntarily failing your guts can be one of the best moves you can take.
So, why use Tohaa as an example, when it's likely the least played faction and likely least well known due to the pieces being OOP. I am new (with maybe 30 games under my belt) and most of Tohaa still reads like a Chinese takeaway menu to me.
That said, the other two examples you had were on point and easy to follow.
To be honest I used Tohaa because I added that slide last after I realised I probably needed an example and had already used Haqq, Nomads and PanO lists for another slide. I thought about Dashat but didn't have a list that quite worked for the example but was at least confident in Tohaa as an example of defend-first. But I appreciate that the entire faction reads like a setup for a Ligma joke to most people.
Hey, interesting video. There is a lot of information for me as a beginner. I have been playing Infinity with a friend of mine probably 7 years ago, when it was in second edition. And I still have Operation:Icestorm, so we both have 7 miniatures. We are thinking of buying Szalamandra Squadron with Booster Pack Beta for Nomads, and Cutters with Booster Pack Beta for PanOceania. Tags because we like big robots, and booster packs which sound good for start with quite nice miniatures. There are so many options, and I'm not sure what would be the best for us. I should mention that we don't have any tournaments in our town, and we could play only one with another, so it would be nice if our armies would be versatile and balanced. What would you recommend to buy for N4? Probably we need something around 400 points to play comfortably?
That's a really good question. If you were starting from scratch I'd have suggested the faction Action Packs, but they actually have a lot of overlap with Operation Icestorm.
So instead I think I'd suggest for each faction you grab a remotes pack, and then for Nomads maybe the Booster Pack Alpha, and for PanO a few models of equivalent value (PanO's booster packs both overlap with Icestorm, but you can get pieces individually). Play whatever points level that will let you to start with, and take it from there, moving up to 300pts over time.
Something to remember is that Infinity really wants you to paint up a small force but use models as proxies for other models from time to time, so what you really want are a collection of pieces that are versatile enough for each of you to experiment. A mix of light and heavy infantry, that sort of thing.
If you're both starting, TAGs are probably the last thing on the list to buy. They'll be good to add eventually (when you're playing at 300pts) but TAGs are big, focal pieces and when you're learning, having a piece makes the game so much about it will give you a skewed experience. Definitely get one (probably for each faction), but down the line.
@@R0bertShepherd Thank you for your quick response and such a detailed explanation!
"Just go first 5Head is not a valid plan."
Sval players in shambles.
As a Sval player, I am absolutely lost at the idea of a defensive piece.
@@Blaze_Raven Beasthunter?
@@Blaze_Ravenlinked Karhu with +1b fueurbach is a good start
Eh, we do have:
- Beasthunter
- Nökk Minelayer & Hacker options
- Vargar HRL & the K1 Marksman/Minelayer, especially if your opponent brought visor units as the primary big attack pieces
- Karhu Feuerbach in a 4-unit link
- Nisse Sniper in a 4-unit link (Machinist & Uma Sorense count as Nisses, making this much more viable)
- Böyg ML, exceptional potential for making your opponent waste orders as they dodge on 16s
- Knight of Justice hacker
...and general typical PanO options of
- Defensively deployed Peacemakers
- Fugazis
- Sierra
- Spotlight ARO/Designated KHD casualty Fusilier hacker
Granted, some of the choices are very situational (Karhu suffers against even MSV1, Böyg suffer against any kind of smoke shooting or mimetism, Vargar are not very good if your opponent has no visors etc) but what in this game isn't?
@@slingshotmaster99 He's not a defensive piece unless you're final turn putting everything out on ARO. The Karhu FB's main strength is dice advantage from its spicy HMG plus the mimetism further compounding any AROs without visors. So you're counting heavily on the dice to shield him from being shocked off the table. In reactive he loses that, and just becomes a 35pt 1.5swc not-shock-immune sitting duck.