Generally, the chassis is separated from their equipment for the purpose of being magical. Lots of the (mostly EA) magical races do however have magic gear. Would help out the Valkyries though if they did.
Great overview. I wonder if some kind of buff will come along for the elf nations to better account for the calvary changes. Not something to make them OP, but to at least get them closer to on par with other nations. I like the HP buff to the horses you mentioned in the comments.
I know there is a lot of complaints about the cavalry changes affecting elf nations, but I think it’s a good / needed thing. They are much more of a light cav force, not meant to be able to through 5 vans plus a command and tank a whole province defense army. This puts the nations closer to its lore and relying more on the human part of it than the elf cheese.
I don't really disagree with you, but the nation also got hit really hard by the mage cost increase and air changes. Glamour isn't super good on this nation either. Their scales troops are *fine* but that doesn't really give them anything to focus on as an advantage. Do you see any changes from 5-6 that were positive that I am missing? Really feeling like I missed something that makes them better than presented.
@@BabelBuilder nothing really I can think of as a buff, most of the changes were nerfs, and fairly big ones. The closest to a buff I guess could be that their troops are a bit more affordable now with the increased gold, but since that goes for just about everyone it’s not really much of one. More populations could also be a minor buff since they have more good options to blood hunt, but again that’s something that many nations can take advantage of so not much of a buff. I played the so much in 5 that I haven’t played them much in 6 yet. My thoughts are that they want to focus more on scales and field big forces of their elite troops, use air buffs to protect them from arrows and lightning damage, and have some thugs to fly into the back line and anti-thugs to attack largest.
Yes scales, i think the van troops are a trap.I did the sage, go con first like you had as option in de video, armor up your einheres and they are killy af. With the con and a bit of air and glamour producing quills and the dream orbs youre looking at getting 24 research on a van herse.
@@BabelBuilder I did some expansion testing and think that blood surge for the valkyries is the best option. I tried blood surge plus strength of earth x4. I also tried blood surge plus berserker. Your idea of fire shield sounds interesting and maybe blood surge plus fire shield could work.
Ok, got it. I think a strong option for them is an imprisoned blood fountain with blood surge & strength of earth x3. Should be able to have dom 8 and great scales. Recruit as many valks and einheres as possible, along with any indie heavy infantry available
The best part about playing as Vanheim is that you don't have to face an AI Vanheim. I swear, my game was so cursed. I ended up going with an awake Great Sage, A6 W1 S5 D3. Magic Weapons and Air Shield as the bless. Air Shield sure is expensive, but it made me a lot more comfortable using the Vans. In my mega cursed game, I had a vampire lord siege my forwardmost fort, while already at war, and the game was probably over if not for the magic weapons. Going for Cold 2 scales, I of course got a +1 Cold throne as my first one, finding a +2 Cold Frozen Lands site in that forted throne, IN ADDITION to another Frozen Lands in the adjacent flooded Farmlands. That's what I get for searching with a Mage of Winter from my new throne! I like using Clouds of Dreamless Slumber, especially with Mist. But man, it was tough getting Vanadrotts out in a timely manner. If I played them again, I might go for better scales.
There are so many nations that suffer from the horse changes between Dom5 and Dom6. All of the Vanir nations are probably the most destroyed by this since Fay horses are horrible. Add to that just how EXPENSIVE Vanir are to recruit and you get a recipe for disaster. Considering that EA Vanheim in Dom5 have a thing called the "NOOBCRUSHER!!!!!11111one" build, its quite the nerf to see just how far they have fallen.
Dwarven smith has a prophet shape ability, becoming a dwarf elder. It should increase earth by 1 but doesnt. The dwarf has a quaterstafff instead of a hammer though
The boars cost as much as a mage to maintain so getting 5 bad! Lack of cold/Fire protection access a problem. But at least can sail still if a mage can be spared to scout. Indeed nation needs researcher start or dormant, & extra damage on bless (& LLV if twilight or spirit sight/ horse sacreds/light thugs to be used & they should in my opinion). Glamour gained is the plus and really needs focus on Con 3 Alt 4 Thaum1 Evo 2 Con5 Alt5. Valks only worth it with map flying to get a "dis" Con5. I disagree on the Commander horses as you have to get cheap crafting anyway and you have good barding access/progression even though annoying. This also focuses bless need more on offence not invulnerability/protection. If made killy by bless horses OK (with hirdmen) even before Twilight/group blur. Later dark makes them and Valk good (again non hirdmen scales units do not fit due to attack stats but most opponents rendered useless) also Air for anti arrows helps both sacreds.. I went thematic Dwarf Dormant +1 path forger for boosters A3/E3/D3/N2/G2/B4 with +2Str Bloodlust/SR/LLV (no combat commanders with Spirit sight or LLV) Dom 6 cold 1, misfortune 1 all other scales 1. I found Horse sacred +hirdment then light thug worked well (just some axes at the start) and balanced resources until Con5 air items then Valk mobile army can be moved in anywhere to reinforce. Blood light use but ring of warrior again vital for cavalry commander repel light thugging.
Boar upkeep is a fair point. Imagine the nation going bankrupt due to bacon pensions. Crafting seems to be the way, but I think it is only going to help make up lost ground. LLV does seem pretty interesting as twilight is great for us.
I mentioned this in a comment to AAX, but I think the +gold from difficulty, plus the way the map generated/played really helped them out. Hopefully, we do as well as they did!
@@BabelBuilder Well, AAX certainly doesn't have a problem telling you how to play. Most of it questionable advice - sort of like mine. I haven't watched the whole stream yet, so I'll have to see what you mean later.
The thing that gave the AI MA Vanheim such an edge was the AI bonus. All of the Vanheim related nations, bar Vanarus, are VERY expensive to do stuff with. AI gets bonus gold so it doesnt have to worry about that. Also i do my best to not be an aggressive ***hole when commenting in the streams.
22:25 just a small thing but he can already craft the boots with e2 what he can do with his master smith trait is craft a dwarven hammer
It’s weird to me that Valkyrie don’t have a magical attack. They just seem rather magical
Generally, the chassis is separated from their equipment for the purpose of being magical. Lots of the (mostly EA) magical races do however have magic gear. Would help out the Valkyries though if they did.
Great overview. I wonder if some kind of buff will come along for the elf nations to better account for the calvary changes. Not something to make them OP, but to at least get them closer to on par with other nations. I like the HP buff to the horses you mentioned in the comments.
I know there is a lot of complaints about the cavalry changes affecting elf nations, but I think it’s a good / needed thing. They are much more of a light cav force, not meant to be able to through 5 vans plus a command and tank a whole province defense army. This puts the nations closer to its lore and relying more on the human part of it than the elf cheese.
I don't really disagree with you, but the nation also got hit really hard by the mage cost increase and air changes. Glamour isn't super good on this nation either. Their scales troops are *fine* but that doesn't really give them anything to focus on as an advantage.
Do you see any changes from 5-6 that were positive that I am missing? Really feeling like I missed something that makes them better than presented.
@@BabelBuilder nothing really I can think of as a buff, most of the changes were nerfs, and fairly big ones. The closest to a buff I guess could be that their troops are a bit more affordable now with the increased gold, but since that goes for just about everyone it’s not really much of one. More populations could also be a minor buff since they have more good options to blood hunt, but again that’s something that many nations can take advantage of so not much of a buff.
I played the so much in 5 that I haven’t played them much in 6 yet. My thoughts are that they want to focus more on scales and field big forces of their elite troops, use air buffs to protect them from arrows and lightning damage, and have some thugs to fly into the back line and anti-thugs to attack largest.
Yes scales, i think the van troops are a trap.I did the sage, go con first like you had as option in de video, armor up your einheres and they are killy af.
With the con and a bit of air and glamour producing quills and the dream orbs youre looking at getting 24 research on a van herse.
@@BabelBuilder I did some expansion testing and think that blood surge for the valkyries is the best option.
I tried blood surge plus strength of earth x4. I also tried blood surge plus berserker. Your idea of fire shield sounds interesting and maybe blood surge plus fire shield could work.
Ok, got it. I think a strong option for them is an imprisoned blood fountain with blood surge & strength of earth x3. Should be able to have dom 8 and great scales. Recruit as many valks and einheres as possible, along with any indie heavy infantry available
That throne surprised and lost me an army in our MP game. Still haven’t gone back to it. Centaurs are speedy.
Ouch. Yeah, I got slaughtered.
Sounds like a rainbow drwaf crafter is nice choice
Anything specific you would want him to craft outside what we do natively? I am thinking a4 booster and maybe water stuff.
The best part about playing as Vanheim is that you don't have to face an AI Vanheim. I swear, my game was so cursed. I ended up going with an awake Great Sage, A6 W1 S5 D3. Magic Weapons and Air Shield as the bless. Air Shield sure is expensive, but it made me a lot more comfortable using the Vans. In my mega cursed game, I had a vampire lord siege my forwardmost fort, while already at war, and the game was probably over if not for the magic weapons.
Going for Cold 2 scales, I of course got a +1 Cold throne as my first one, finding a +2 Cold Frozen Lands site in that forted throne, IN ADDITION to another Frozen Lands in the adjacent flooded Farmlands. That's what I get for searching with a Mage of Winter from my new throne!
I like using Clouds of Dreamless Slumber, especially with Mist. But man, it was tough getting Vanadrotts out in a timely manner. If I played them again, I might go for better scales.
We fought them in the Phaeacia stream, and it was rough. Vanheim gets a big boost from difficulty bonus gold.
Oof. They look pretty sad. Could be the first stream to break the 10 hr mark.
Don't bring that energy here! This is going to be a totally bemusing 4 hour stream and people will be complaining that the settings are too easy!
There are so many nations that suffer from the horse changes between Dom5 and Dom6. All of the Vanir nations are probably the most destroyed by this since Fay horses are horrible. Add to that just how EXPENSIVE Vanir are to recruit and you get a recipe for disaster. Considering that EA Vanheim in Dom5 have a thing called the "NOOBCRUSHER!!!!!11111one" build, its quite the nerf to see just how far they have fallen.
The fear nerf hit these, too. Fey steeds really need to use some barding. Maybe a buff to hp might help.
We are gonna have to depend upon owl quills for any hope of efficient research for this one.
Do you have any plans for MA r'lyeh soon?
Not scheduled yet. Kinda saving them as a treat for myself.
Dwarven smith has a prophet shape ability, becoming a dwarf elder. It should increase earth by 1 but doesnt. The dwarf has a quaterstafff instead of a hammer though
Whoa really!? That’s so cool!
Weird that he isn't getting the earth. I wish we had more prophet shapes.
The boars cost as much as a mage to maintain so getting 5 bad! Lack of cold/Fire protection access a problem. But at least can sail still if a mage can be spared to scout.
Indeed nation needs researcher start or dormant, & extra damage on bless (& LLV if twilight or spirit sight/ horse sacreds/light thugs to be used & they should in my opinion).
Glamour gained is the plus and really needs focus on Con 3 Alt 4 Thaum1 Evo 2 Con5 Alt5. Valks only worth it with map flying to get a "dis" Con5.
I disagree on the Commander horses as you have to get cheap crafting anyway and you have good barding access/progression even though annoying. This also focuses bless need more on offence not invulnerability/protection.
If made killy by bless horses OK (with hirdmen) even before Twilight/group blur. Later dark makes them and Valk good (again non hirdmen scales units do not fit due to attack stats but most opponents rendered useless) also Air for anti arrows helps both sacreds..
I went thematic Dwarf Dormant +1 path forger for boosters A3/E3/D3/N2/G2/B4 with +2Str Bloodlust/SR/LLV (no combat commanders with Spirit sight or LLV) Dom 6 cold 1, misfortune 1 all other scales 1. I found Horse sacred +hirdment then light thug worked well (just some axes at the start) and balanced resources until Con5 air items then Valk mobile army can be moved in anywhere to reinforce. Blood light use but ring of warrior again vital for cavalry commander repel light thugging.
Boar upkeep is a fair point. Imagine the nation going bankrupt due to bacon pensions.
Crafting seems to be the way, but I think it is only going to help make up lost ground.
LLV does seem pretty interesting as twilight is great for us.
I realize that you recorded this before last nights stream, but after facing them, you shouldn't have many issues when you play them.
I mentioned this in a comment to AAX, but I think the +gold from difficulty, plus the way the map generated/played really helped them out. Hopefully, we do as well as they did!
@@BabelBuilder Well, AAX certainly doesn't have a problem telling you how to play. Most of it questionable advice - sort of like mine. I haven't watched the whole stream yet, so I'll have to see what you mean later.
The thing that gave the AI MA Vanheim such an edge was the AI bonus. All of the Vanheim related nations, bar Vanarus, are VERY expensive to do stuff with. AI gets bonus gold so it doesnt have to worry about that.
Also i do my best to not be an aggressive ***hole when commenting in the streams.
@@AAX11111 Not the aaxhole here. We hate the playa, not the game.
Sorry. I'll show myself out.