We have an updated version of this video that goes into a little bit more detail and answers some of the most common questions. Check it out! th-cam.com/video/fuoYUYFNkGI/w-d-xo.html
I won't say his name but I've listened to another instructor on TH-cam talking about devices for motorcycles and how they function, he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about accepting a very generalized sense. This man seems to understand what he's saying. I still remember going out in motorcycle outings with my father who rode in Orlando as a police officer and was also friends with some of the fastest motorcycle racers in the country. Almost every one of them asked him to get into racing because he was so much better than they were. But he said because he had kids and several people that he knew had already been killed in racing, that was not going to work well. Being the late 50s and into the early 60s, I still remember when one of his friends died I believe that Watkins Glen in 64 or earlier. I'm not exactly sure. At least that's the way I remember hearing it but I was quite young at the time. But I've ridden motorcycles for quite some time now and knock on wood, I have yet to put one down. Good information in this video
Been riding for 40+ years and was an MSF instructor way back in the early days, I must admit that I had no understanding of what trail braking really meant. Thank you for the clear explanation. Old Dogs can learn new tricks. Now to get out there and practice.
Yep, this old dog is going out to practice this. Could've used this at the Dragon on a very tight right but instead used only the rear brake and chose the forest straight ahead. At the time riding a ZRX 1200 standard but accelerating essay too fast into an unknown curve!
That’s right everyone has different skill sets , and different experiences ... with age your more than likely to have a lot more experiences and knowledge depending on the environment and the resources in that environment , that is why you or we all have something to learn from the young generation and the older generation , once we learn that we’ve only scratched the surface , then we can make the leap into the deeper subjects of the matters at hand .. 🤷🏼♂️ just my two cents and a theory I try to live by ...
MotoGP rider Bradley Smith was asked once in an interview, "What advice would you give street riders?". Smith's response was to practice pushing your bike around, like, on your feet and off the bike pushing, and engage the front brake as softly as possible, learn to feel the first bite and get to know it well. He was advocating trail braking.
@@admiralbeez8143 I watched a video where an Italian guy mentions that. And I think Rossi doesn’t ride out of the track. Too much risk. Cars trees fire hydrants drunk or distracted drivers. Its amazing how many times they wreck and walk away on the track. Cant do that in the outdoors.
@@anubis8680 that's funny because I also heard a couple interviews of race car drivers that just drive a "slow pickup truck" and another one that mentions he just rides super bikes
"by using the brakes we are the ones in charge" The best piece of motorcycle advice I've heard. Some riders I see are on a motorcycle but not really in control of it. Knowing you have the knowledge and skill to command your motorcycle in any scenario makes riding much more enjoyable. Yes, the more you know the better it gets.
They are more concerned about what people think of them, then hurting them self, others or getting killed. Heard people that care more about what others will say or think if someone saw that they was training in a parking lot. Then getting killed in a crash. It cant get any more stupid, if you ask me. Training on something to me, has never been embarrassing. If someone makes fun of me for practicing, I only laugh at them. Because I know they are stupid, and don't understand much. And probably going to have a short, hard life.
THANKS FOR SAVING MY ARSE TODAY!!! Been riding 15 years. Getting complacent. Saw this video a year or so back. Today, on a road I know A BIT, curvy, trees both sides. Hammering along at 70/80 because I know I can along here. No nasty surprises along here. I remember. Then I find myself right on top of a sharp left hander. SH1T!! Where'd THAT come from?? Lean angle wasn't going to do it. Presence of mind to remember progressive breaking.... Now it's lean in time - still too fast! Then I remembered trail breaking - ease off lever a bit, tip in...thank christ, heading towards apex, gradually ease off lever some more, apex, ease throttle back on... Enter in terror - exit grinning like a fool. Home to Her in one piece & having a lovely Friday evening. THANK YOU!!
Being one of those who got hammered with the "kill all speed for a turn and accelerate out of it regardless" , I found myself well impressed with the clarity and common sense you guys showed in this video. Thank you ever so much for sharing this. Even though I've been driving a motorcycle for decades now, I learned something new today. For which I'm gratefull. Thanks guys!
No alot of new riders lack the required muscle memory and experience to properly use the trail braking technique. As you can see here in the comments. So the MSF is taking the safest route. Whatever a rider learns after the course is on them and so are the consequences.
@@jotunheim5302 its taught in the advanced class but not in basic. Due to lack of enrollment i think the basic shoyld take some things from the advanced
@YesMan, I remember coaching brand new riders who were gently slowing to the middle of the corner very naturally on their own, to stop and accelerate through the entire corner. The only value I can figure that comes from SLPR is that it really drives home the importance of setting a conservative entrance speed. But most people trail brake in their cars, on their bicycles... My mom, who has never ridden a motorcycle and is the most conservative woman in the world trail brakes in her little car all the way to the apex of the freeway off ramp.
@@CanyonChasers when I trail break during driving, I am on the break the hardest, maybe 30% before the apex, then feather off from there to,make it smooth. But doing this on a bike, I'd be leaning. My MSF said never be ON the front break during a lean because you can low side... I ride a sport bike.. Is this true? I have wide close calls frequently unless my approach speed is slow.
@@LightGesture it's all a matter of how much traction you are using for turning and braking. Front brake gradually applied actually gives more available turning traction because you are placing more downward force on it. Snatching the brake in a lean will overcome the available traction because you aren't giving the bikes weight time to shift or the suspension the opportunity to dampen it. You can actually low side from releasing a heavy application of brake mid lean because you are reducing the downward force on the tire. I like the idea of "keep the brake light on through the apex" it gives you that 1% or better braking and keeps weight loaded on the front. Just focus on keeping the light on, then you can increase your ability naturally.
Used trail braking inadvertently when I got my bike last year. Was still recovering from knee surgery and found it was literally uncomfortable to move my ankle when riding. As a result I found that using the front brake was much more suitable for me until my knee (and ankle) felt better. Now I'm feeling more in control thru the corners using the trail braking technique. Thanks for a great description thru your video! Only thing I would add (as more of a reminder) is to not become fixated on the hazard spots of the corners (ie: guard rails, other vehicles, objects, etc). Keep looking as far ahead as you can in the direction you want to go and not at the perceived obstacles. Thx.
I watched this video when you 1st uploaded it back in 2018, I took the bike out that very afternoon and practised trail braking, over the next few day I spoke to my friends about it and they ALL said "nah rubbish, never trail brake" but I carried on for a few more days trying it out.... 2 years later I can honestly say it's made me a better rider and given me so much confidence in corners, now I wouldn't ride any other way and even recommend this video to my new rider friends... Thank you....
I get what you mean but that doesn’t mean that teal braking makes sense. Especially the guys who made this video doesn’t understand what trail braking is. He really doesn’t understand. But if it help you to practice that’s the most important
exactly the same for me. I had to pause the video and think for a moment and then understood and whatched further. thanks for this simple statement, very helpful.
Yup, me too - I think I use engine braking quite a lot and the brakes not as much as I should. I tried trail braking - or what I thought was trail braking (important distinction) - on one ride, but got tied in knots and my corners weren't nearly as smooth as usual, so I didn't persevere. This excellent video will make me try again. Really great explanation.
Lol me too. I been using rear brake and engine breaking when entering corner sometimes when in corner too. This video makes me realize how suck I am with riding.
My question is, how do I fix this? I find myself thinking bout trail braking as I’m going through a curve, however, I get to a point where just the slowing force of the engine braking is taking me to a slower speed than is necessary for completing the curve and I ease onto the throttle before I’m even thinking about exiting. Does this happen to anyone else?
@@Saxophonedan you don't NEED to trail brake. It sounds like your entering the turn slower than needed which is perfectly fine. All that matters is making it where you need to go in one piece
I had many moments of terror every time I rode for past 10 years until I tried trail braking. No more being scared. I always preferred following someone, buy now I love to lead. Thank you!!
while entering the corner, and when you start leaning, dou you maintain the throttle while applying little brake, or you completely release the throttle while leaning towards apex? So basicaly my question is do you use throttle and break same time, or just break while leaning and then in apex smoothly transition to throttle? In that case, what if you slow down too much while leaned down, let's say corner end longer and inward....
@@notfunni I think trail braking works best when it's a relatively tight low speed corner. When approaching the corner, the throttle is idle and brakes are being applied. You would then trail off the brakes around the turn in point, maintaining slight front brake + idle throttle until reaching the apex. But if it's a long sweeping corner where you may not even need to slow down, then it doesn't make much sense to brake the whole way through the first half of the corner. In that case it calls for either just a steady throttle, or brief roll off + light braking just to help the bike turn in.
Seems like many of you who believe trail braking is dangerous think it means maximum braking into the turn. No, you missed the fundamental message that you brake earlier and longer into the bend and gradually feather off of it as you transition to throttle. You don't whang on the brake and hold that pressure the entire time into the curve. The entire point is to leave a greater margin or "traction budget". You don't just brake deeper into the turn, you brake earlier - *not harder*. It also means you apex later and get a better view. Trail braking does not mean, "rushing the corner".
Thank you! I'm befuddled by how many people think trail braking is a hamfisted grabbing of the front brake, and how many of those people seem to insist that's what I said.
Why not just brake earlier, go into the curve slower without needing any brake to maintain control and wait until you are through the curve to accelerate?
I think a lot of the negative comments are coming from people who didn't watch the entire video. They heard or read "braking" and "corner" and were triggered and just launch off into their explanations as to why it's so "dangerous." They are so "knowledgeable", they don't even know that MSF teaches trail braking now.
Lisa Jones, seems to me that you need more practice with this technique. It's not about knowledge, it's about careful control and concentration. Maybe people could be riding this way without even realizing it. Either way, it's not always a good idea to believe everything you see on TH-cam.
I was never taught this - I think I did it intuitively but always felt like I was breaking a rule or something based on what I was taught. Good to know I’m not crazy for doing it this way.
I've always ridden like this intuitively all my riding life and never knew it was called trail braking lol.. It's either you have a feel for it or don't. If you don' then most likely those riders are at potentially risking themselves crashing more often than not. Riding a motorcycle requires a lot of skill and understanding of the machine. Each bike can behave differently, but they're all essentially the same if you apply the same logic.
Youre right i did this intuitively and asked other riders about it because i felt like I was breaking a rule of using front brake in a turn.. Didnt know the term for it til now
Remember all trail braking is light and very steady. You are not stopping your bike or chopping speed, you are slowly grinding down your speed. Practice first with a feather touch.
Amazing to have this free information available to us. I learned this the hard way... but man to hear it in words would have saved me lots of money and a broken shoulder. Thank you for the video! It's extremely helpful and I guarantee many accidents and injuries have been avoided because of this team.
Thanks for this pro tip. I've always been taught to get all things in order prior to the corner, and not mess with brakes with bike at lean. You talked about the struggle that I've always had on roads that I'm not familiar with. On a known road I know the gear \ braking needed to feel safe going through a corner, but as soon as I end up on a new road I'm in learning mode. My riding style completely changes as I try to guess what gear \ braking is needed. This is usually fine on the corners that allow for a little more room for error, but on those corners where there's a hair pin type turn it can get unsettling. I'm going to start holding the brake a little longer, and give this a try on my "home" roads that I'm familiar with. The hard part for me is being on the brake, and holding the throttle steady as well.
after many years, I've in the last year started doing this. It's by far one of the very best techniques I've EVER done. So much more control and confidence in corners.
no one taught me the term 'trail braking' but as i gained experience on the bike, this technique saved me numerous times when i went into corners bit too hot.
Thanks Dave so much I recently starting doing this as after many miles covered now I was getting bad and a bit scared going into to corners after recently running wide, i did think i was wrong breaking into a corner but couldn’t understand how right and safer it felt until i found this video and now understand it was a technique😀👍 called trail breaking😮out practising it even more cant thank you enough, working through all your videos and subscribed ride well🙏👍
So I commented on this video over a year ago asking for additional clarification which I received. I then commenced to practicing the technique a lot under controlled and concentrated conditions. I now use it all the time and consider it especially helpful when approaching downhill curves. I can directly attribute this knowledge and subsequent practice to saving my bacon on a couple of misjudged curves. All I did was delicately apply a touch more brake while trail braking. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. It's the best explanation of trail braking I have been able to find.
because it gives you maximum grip. the reason your rear tire is larger than your front and you have roughly 50/50 weight distribution is because the bike was designed to accelerate. use your brakes while leaned over, your probably down to less than half of your grip.
I learned trail braking before I took my first MSF course, I was told I was wrong and to never keep my fingers on the brake lever, sorry but trail braking saved me more than once and I even taught my wife way before watching this video and finding out I was correct after years of being told I was wrong by 7 different instructors ... I have had some terrible instructors, this video needs to be seen by all MSF instructors.
Trail breaking would have saved me in my recent low-side. I expected a lot less tight of a turn heading onto a highway onramp and got 3/4 through before I realized I was going too fast. I tried to break using my front breaks but second guessed myself since breaking is supposedly bad in turns, and it became too late to do anything. I wasn't sure how to correct myself, even though I had been breaking through most of the turn. If I had been told that I could break more with the front break after that and correct myself, I wouldn't have crashed.
@@michaelhimich5188 I had this too. They almost failed me. I'd learned the habit bike messengering, and it was IMPOSSIBLE to stop doing it. It had saved my life a few times.
I had been riding for probably 30 years before I took the MSF course. I was constantly being "criticized" for resting my fingers on the brake lever, as well as for only using 2 fingers while using the front brake. You're not supposed to use the front brake while riding the MSF course, because you're doing a lot of slow and low-speed turning. By using the front brake while turning, you increase the chances of "folding" the front end of the bike and going down. I was only taking the MSF course after riding for decades, because I had planned on becoming an instructor. I looked at it this way: I did what they wanted me to do, the way they wanted me to do it, so I could pass the course (which I did). In my opinion, if you're an MSF instructor and you're not teaching the curriculum AS WRITTEN, you shouldn't be an instructor. It's not your job to rewrite the curriculum, it's to teach the curriculum the way the "experts" wrote it. Personally, after passing the course, I decided to not pursue being an MSF Rider Coach, because I didn't necessarily agree with what was being taught and/or the way it was being taught. Novel concept, I know.
I'm a very new rider , I've only been out a couple of times but I applied this and all I can say is wow....made cornering much easier and I felt much more comfortable..great video ..thanks
This is the third time I have watched this video in the last year. Congratulations one making one of the best motorcycle videos on TH-cam. Trail braking changed everything for me on the street. Thank you 🙏
I'm new to riding on the street, and I find corners intimidating sometimes. The way I've been taught just doesn't always feel good. A few times I've come out of a difficult corner and realized I've instinctively done just what you're describing - I'll notice that it worked really well, but then I'd think "wow I was lucky, better not do that again!" Now I understand why. From now on I'll work on it on purpose! Thanks for reminding us how braking and accelerating affects bike geometry.
I thought we should tip in revving. I saw many rider coaches saying that we need keep revving to add traction in the back rear because it's prevents the bike from sliding. I always enter into the corned reviving and I revving up while the bike becomes upright in the of the corner.
I just watched the vid.. after years of riding, I started doing this a couple of months ago.. where I live the twisties are sometimes bumpy and can go off-camber in the corners... so after I started 'trail-braking' I was able to keep my line in the corner and maintain my speed throughout the corner and exit easily... without 'trail-braking', the corners were a bit dangerous and unpredictable to ride through... often I would have to back-off or brake fast which made each of the corners really hairy... so thanx for the vid .. awesome stuff explained easily.
Thank you, my dear friend, this saved me today, and I saw this video yesterday. I was riding a tight corner and it was a blind corner, I had a little front brake on when I entered a corner and all of a sudden an SUV was riding in opposite direction in my lane ( it's. Two line country road ) and I managed to brake effiflciently and slow down enough to maneuver safely through. ( My motorcycle is a classic 350 and don't have abs) Thank you
Not only does trail braking: -change the geometry so the bike wants to turn more, -but also loads the front tire increasing contact patch -AND reduces speed at the same time.
I agree with what you are saying. Although there is a nurd response to the term acceleration, applying acceleration maintains speed when doing advanced driving and riding for emergency services. Let me explain: when a vehicle goes into a corner under the same acceleration, there are additional frictional forces. (The vehicle slows.) You are required to add a slight accelerator to maintain speed. This does not increase velocity. So we are taught that you need to add acceleration to maintain speed. You only increase velocity when the way is clear and the vanishing point starts to move away. I hope that helps people. It's akin to people believing that the handlebars cause a motorcycle to turn when, in fact, it is lean.
It's hard to clear things up for folks when we invent new definitions for words. The definintion of acceleration is, according to the dictionary; "begin to move more quickly" Therefore, acceleration would indeed mean increase velocity. However, you are also not wrong, just using terrible language. We've done an addition to this video that goes a bit deeper into the point you are trying to make. th-cam.com/video/fuoYUYFNkGI/w-d-xo.html
I rode without trail breaking on I first got my license on my Ninja 250 however once I got a bigger bike I had hard time turning specially at roundabouts. After a while I searched breaking safely while turning and thats when I learned about trail breaking and now riding and turning is not scary anymore.
I watched this video yesterday and tried Trail braking out today. It really helped me taking corners better and riding through them more stable. It also helped me correcting my line when i took a corner faster than usual. You earned a sub, good content and good videos!
I would highly suggest learning trail braking and practicing it on the race track before you start applying it to the road because until you really get a feel for it it's easy to lose the front end and end up on your ass and at least from my experiences a low side on the track is gonna be a lot safer than a low side on the street a lot less likelihood of hitting an oncoming car or hitting a guardrail or anything of that nature on the track your more than likely just going to slide off the track and be OK.
I am a 50 year old man who has just purchased his first bike SV650 LAMS in Australia, I can’t even ride yet because of Covid, however I have been watching your content and it’s is so informative and I think when I do get to start riding I will have good habits because of what I’m learning from you! Thank you
just completed a three day adventure riding course in the hills of Oregon and we practiced this braking relentlessly. Then I rode 5 hours back to my house and practiced this on every moderate to tight corner I took and the response was almost magical. Great video and instructional advice.
So basically what I'm seeing is that I should start applying the front brake before the corner, even if ever so lightly, and ride the front brake through the corner until I'm confident I can exit safely. If the corner tightens unexpectedly, I can slowly apply more pressure to the front brake regardless of what point of the corner I'm in, since I already started the turn with my front brake depressed, allowing me to tighten my lean angle. Am I getting this right?
yes, if you've ever ridden a mt bike 🚴 down a steep hill you'll definitely understand subtle applications of the front brake~b/c you're constantly on the brakes...too much = loss of control...not enough=too much speed and...loss of control. Goldie lochs = just right😜😱🤔💥🐒💩
XT Anon It’s a fine line with how much break you can apply and lean angle. The OP of the video needs to be extremely clear on this. I feel that he wasn’t clear at all. The more lean angle you apply to turn,the lighter you have to be on the breaks. You can’t crank the bike over to 50 degrees of lean and grab a hand full of front break. The key to trail breaking is as the bike increases lean,you decrease breaking. The OP and the video seems to be intended for novice and above. He doesn’t explain this for the absolute noob.
Trying trail braking without learning the basic skills will cause problems. Most of these problems can be avoided if you avoid entering a corner faster than your skill set and not paying attention ahead to determine if a decreasing radius is about to hit. Trail braking is best mastered when you have sufficient skills under your belt. I have trail braked as well but very judiciously; in 20 years of riding I seldom needed to. Great video.
Yeah, thats kinda the advice that has been floating around for years. But what do you do if you find yourself in the middle of the corner going faster than you want? The "You should have been going slower" advice is pretty much worthless at that point. So is the "Just lean more" Not every bike and not every rider is capable of just leaning more. All of us naturally trail brake, from little kids on pedal bikes, to my mom in in her Nissan Juke. The only place that tries to tell us its dangerous is basic riding schools wtih cirriculm based on one guys experience club racing in the '70s. Trail braking - or simply slowing into a corner until we are happy with our speed and direction - is not an advanced technique and it's not hard for new riders to grasp and do smoothly. Several entitites, myself included, have been teaching it to brand new riders for well over a decade now. Remember, motorcycles are designed and engineered to turn more effectively with a little bit of front brake applied. I would encourage you to use it a lot less judicisously, Even 1% of brake pressure entering corners and your bike will be more stable, your corners will be more precise, you'll have more grip on the front tire - the tire needed to change direction - and if you have to slow more for any reason - faster than you wanted to go or something unexpected in your path, all you gotta' do is just add in a few extra points of brake pressure. It's the most natural thing in the world if we're willing to discard that one 1970s club racers dire warnings from 40 years ago.
Thanks for this public service. Suddenly I'm seeing trail braking videos all over the place, but yours was the first, and I like the approach you used. I've ridden bikes for almost 20 years, and I was always timid about corners, apparently because I was trying to follow the old dogma you mentioned. So many close calls due to coming out of the corner wide, sometimes crossing the center line. As a result, I haven't put many miles on my bikes, simply because the fear factor interfered so much with the fun factor. I'm looking forward to getting back on the Bonneville and experimenting with this technique.
Lots of YCRS/ Spencers type info in the vid. There is way too much misinformation out there WRT trail braking. Good job distilling it down a bit. Last time I did YCRS Scott Russell talked a little about having the confidence to stay with the brakes especially if you colossally eff up a corner and get in too hot or off line. You may loose positions but you can still be in the race by reeling it in and not running off and crashing. This is a even more important skill on the street where if you make a mistake you may not have safe runoff. And we know all good riders never make mistakes ;)..
New to riding a sport bike/any bike. Was having trouble judging speed into corners. Either went a little wide or cut the corner much too short. Watched this guy say the complete opposite to my instructors when I took my test. Amazing, 1 week of practicing this technique at every corner, tight or no so tight, works for them all really). Slowly off the brake as you lean the bike into the corner, at the same time as you add throttle you let go of the rest of the brake (all one motion). I've never been more confident going into a tighter corner, I'm quicker and more confident. works 100%
Some years ago, when I bought my first bike, I watched this video. Later I bought a book but until now I wasn't able to understand trail breaking. KNOWLEDGE, EXPERIENCE and WORK are necessary. Thanks for such quality on your material.
Since I passed my UK bike test in 1980 before it got difficult, nobody has ever mentioned anything like this to me. Not even when I much later passed the IAM so called advanced test! I’m now subscribed and I’ll start practicing straight away. Many thanks.
I think to describe the idea is kinda difficult, he is covering too many ideas at once. Start with this idea .... barely touching the front brake, preloads the front suspension ..... Carrying this preload into the corner towards the apex keeps the front suspension loaded, increasing traction OVER coasting in. PLUS a side bonus .. ((from coasting into corner .. then into apex..then you need to have front brakes)) .if you try to touch the front brakes once you are leaned over, it's easy to grab too much AND some bikes like Harleys have to soft a front suspension, so they DIVE really bad (in this situation) Also soft street cruisers benefit more than rice rockets
What I found surprising, I discussed the trail braking (and more specifically Brake Light Initiative) with one IAM observer who was assessing my ride on the other occassion, and he was basically discouraging use of it whilst appreciating the use of it on the track. Not quite sure why (although their book does the same, "brake before you lean"), since I exactly explained him the pros, but I guess this may be because of the IAM's focus on the safe and predictable street riding (not quite slow, but not necessarilly efficient).
That's because it is mainly a racing technique to get around corners faster and more efficiently, which is something you shouldn't be doing in the street. Everyone who race/circuits cars usually trail brakes. I rarely do it on the bike and only with familiar corners. If I'm able to trail brake on a corner that I'm taking 'fast' and not familiar with and somehow save myself from crashing/crossing over the line, it means I wasn't going fast enough - trail braking didn't save me.
Generally, I agree with you. The motorcycles I learned on were old, top-heavy bikes with narrow tires. Before I took a safety coarse, I learned on city areas and narrow, and bumpy, twisted watershed roads that often had loose asphalt from road patches. I will not recommend anyone do anything, but I found that where conditions were good, and at very slow speeds, while the bike was upright, I practiced feeling just what it took to make the rear tire skid. I found that even with a lowly 450cc engine, that skid threshold was very dependent on engine rpm. Engine compression braking during de-acceleration is something I like to get a feel for--while modulating the rear brake. Especially at low RPMs, if the engine wants to stall, surely, it alone wants to skid the rear tire. What I wanted to learn: at each given engine RPM, at varying surface and tire conditions, how much rear brake must I subtract to make the rear tire microskid on compression strokes. Obviously, cornering and braking forces are applied to the same tire contact patch. Obviously, as you slow, much of the weight comes forward, and as you said, compressing the forks, and changing the suspension geometry. By its nature, like a shopping cart wheel, trail keeps the front wheel stable, and I do think that your assertion that keeping the bike level/from not diving, so the trail does not diminish is a handy technique. Still, I feel one of the most important mantras to use, is to look where I am going, and if I cannot see, then slow down. You mentioned something to that effect. Not riding your bike into the unknown may take the fun out of it, but where I rode, I never knew where branches might have come down. I never new where a pile of wet leaves might have been. I never knew where the pot holes might have formed, that day. Not all the blind-driveways where marked. I don't trust the public-works people to have built any stretch of road--until I see it for myself. Sport-bikes are so fast now. Is there any reason why someone couldn't speed up later, when they can finally see?
This video has made all the difference !! As a beginner rider with less than five hours on the bike and reviewing this video a couple times it brought control and confidence and joy into turns. Thank you for sharing. I just did a 40 mile canyon ride yesterday and it was smooth sailing.
Good stuff, thanks. One point; you said why would you want to accelerate when you don’t know where the corner is going. I often do this to maintain lean angle when the corner opens up. Ultimately I don’t know where the corner is going but within the area of the corner I am traversing right at that moment I have a clear path. Obviously this only happens when not going too quickly. You helpfully explained why this works, changing the rake angle etc. very helpful. Thanks again.
Right. Yes. The front brake makes the bike want to slow and turn. Acceleration makes the bike want to go faster and stand up - but neutral throttle and the bike's radius stays the same. So on those long sweeping corners, neutral throttle to maintain our radius is the right thing to do. We call it, "riding the bike based on direction" - You will probably enjoy this video: th-cam.com/video/fuoYUYFNkGI/w-d-xo.html
One of the best tips for cornering. Having watched this sometime ago I started to practice this technique and you can definitely benefit from it. It gives you way more confidence if you need to slow in a corner as you brake in a more relaxed way as opposed to grabbing a handful and washing out in a panic as shown on shed loads of TH-cam vids.
I have watched this again after your personal experience on the benefits it gave you to your riding. It has made it a lot clearer looking at this again. Thank you for sharing, clearly backed by the science.
This has to be the best explanation of trail braking I've found yet on TH-cam. I've seen a few. None of the others make it clear that this is a front brake technique. They show using the front brakes, but never declare it. Thanks for that.
Great video Dave! I wish all riders would be able to drop their pride and get some advance training on their bike. Being able to hold 3% front brakes really changed my riding.
I remember from 55 years ago a piece of advice I was given, slow in fast out. I think that was aimed mainly at rear wheel drive vehicles which were the predominant drive in those days. Used it in cars and motor cycles ever since without any problem. This sounds pretty similar, but it's really good to hear the reasoning for it.
I am so glad you explained this technique to me as I already practice this and feel save and in controle. As my riding buddies always tell me not to brake into a corner (they see my break light) I was beginning to question my technique..... But I was unable to explain it to them as I only knew it felt right. Now I know why and I can further practice and master the technique, Thanks!!!
Hmm. I was kind of excited about this video. Thought I was going to learn something new. Turns out I've been doing this instinctually already. Still watched the video though. Very informative.
So much of riding is instinctive and by feel. Knowing why your instinct is correct lets you consciously choose the best action for a situation... The may be times instincts are not correct.
Nicely stated and the most important instructions are at the end. Slow gently squeeze, not a "I grabbed the brakes and fell". Young riders need to learn the gradual application of throttle, brakes and sometimes clutch. Learn gradual building and releasing pressure on controls first and this method will work. I ride mountains constantly (live here) and when going downhill on curve stacked on curve stacked again and again, you have to trail brake sometimes. Otherwise if accelerating through every curve you'd be doing a ton through the fourth switchback.
I do everything gradually with my gf. I start in a first gear and do gradual build up until 5th gear. Coming close to an end of a ride i drop it back in 2nd gear and finish with high rpm. In the end i dont't even give her a towel.. You know..
Seems like good advice. I was taught to be as smooth as possible - or rather to try to ride as smoothly as I possibly could. Like driving a car, or even like using gym weights I guess - aim for smooth and the rest will almost take care of itself. I bit over-simple, perhaps, but it seems to work for me even after riding for a few years.
Nice video. Trail braking is what I've always used as a car racer and is a must with fwd cars if you want to have a shot at making the corner. Seeing this makes me wish I still had my RD350 that I used to carve up the Sierra Nevada mountain roads with back in the 70's.
Great video, I was always told "trail braking is bad" 👎 and only novices trail brake into corners. Since I've watched this& started to use the techniques, my riding is smoother, bends so much better and turning into side roads is now far more confident.. many thanks guys..
I think it's important to understand that your not jamming on the break, but only using one or two finger low strength. I found adding baby and I mean super baby pressure on the rear break as well helps.
I taught myself how to ride a motorcycle, and I guess I've naturally been doing this technique. Never knew some people don't brake during the turn. Seems much more dangerous.
You're not "supposed" to brake during the turn, but if you know what you're doing and how to do it, of course you can. These guys (and guys like them) are trying to turn everyone into "Ricky Racer." The street is not a racetrack and shouldn't be treated like one. Does that mean I ride like an old lady when I'm out riding? Hell no! It just means I don't go around encouraging everyone to ride 3 times the speed limit while riding on a public road or highway, and instruct them on how to do it "safely."
@@maximusmax4557 I didn't get the feeling that this was about racing. It was more about giving yourself more control in bends. It does seem that a lot of people see it as applying the brakes in a corner, when it's really about keeping a light pressure on as you lean in to the turn, rather than coming off the brake completely. So the bike's geometry stays roughly the same, rather than weight on the front braking for the turn, then weight on the rear as you lean in and apply throttle, then weight shifting to the front if you apply the brakes. That's dangerous. Here in Scotland, the roads are mostly twisties, and I've gone into bends that ended up feeling like they were more than 360 degrees :) I'm lucky in that I was trail braking, depending on the situation, before I'd heard about it. What a hero ;). Anyway, it does help massively in giving you control. Plus, I follow the rule of trying to always be able to stop in the distance you can see. Can't wait for the weather to improve, so I can head into the Highlands again :)) Ride Safe
@@ME-ru4hv He literally explained on how to feather the front brakes and what would happen if you just squeezed down on them as you enter the turn, so if people don't want to follow what the guy said in this video and be stupid it is on them. The idea here is to actually listen to the words he says instead of paraphrasing....
@@maximusmax4557 They what do you do, when you suddenly have to brake hard in a turn. And you never practice it? You don't have to be a street racer to go 80mph on the highway. And you have to brake hard and turn. If you never practice that. You want do it. You only crash. That's why most people on bikes crash in corners. Because they don't practice that, because they are not racing. But Bambi or Elk don't care what you are doing. He… or she… just jump into the road in front of you. They don't know that you have not any plans on emergency braking. And there for you have not trained on it. Better to have way more tools then you need… Then to miss one when you need it… That can cost you your life. That's why corners take the most lives. Because people think they can just ease through life slowly, whit minimal of knowledge. That is not the way to be safe. Its not how fast you are going that kills you. It is the lack of knowledge what to do, when something happens.
I went through dozens of trail braking videos including this one in the past and never really got it until now. You made the physics come alive. I'm a retired driving instructor of 30 years and know a true professional teacher when I hear one. This video should be required viewing in all motorcycle classes.
I’m Still trying to break the habit of using the rear break only, coming from dirt, I’ve always power slides into corners, can’t do that on street, trail breaking has allowed me gain confidence in my Cornering, and entering speed.
I came from dirt bikes as well but I used my front brake more then my rear, I didnt even know I was "trail breaking" until I saw this video I was just naturally doing it
I did this the entire time and i just thought it was the way to keep your line as smooth as possible. This takes away the intimidation of bikes for me. I do this in my cars too. I learned how to do this cuz my first project car was lacking ABS, TC, SC and allat and this helped the car handle amazing with me driving, so ima do it with my bike too
Is anyone here familiar with The Brake Light Initiative? I understand trail braking involves doing most of the braking while upright, but instead of releasing the brakes before turning in and leaning the bike, slowly releasing the brakes as you lean the bike. Trail braking is not about applying the front brake while turning. It's about keeping pressure on the front brake to begin with, before leaning, and slowly releasing it as you begin to lean and continue to approach the appropriate lean angle. Trail braking as used in racing aims to maximize the use of available traction as often as possible. By doing so, a racer can brake later, but longer, yet carry more speed through the corner. Trail braking as applied to street riding is the opposite. You don't brake any later, but you do brake longer, effectively slowing down more for the corner. Slower means safer. If you find trail braking interfering with your steering or line, that just means you're braking too hard, which in turn means you didn't brake enough while upright in a straight line, which means you either didn't brake hard enough or you braked too late. The technique is not at fault here. It's its execution.
Because sometimes you do not know how slow is 'slow enough'. Maybe the corner is blind and the corner tightens much more than expected (know a lot of those around here), big pot holes, illegally parked cars or what ever.
so that's why you slow down to the point that you can go around the corner, whater may lie ahead or how tight the corner might get. looking trough the curve doesn't only imply to looking where you're going, but also to calculate with anything which might happen
i don't know what your understanding of fun is, but going dangerously fast without knowing what is ahead of you is plain stupid, might as well go skydiving and not check whats in your bag
I've been watching and watching and watching the same few videos as I have ended up scared and uptight about cornering. I just don't feel safe. Thank you for sharing your story with the silver Honda and how you moved past that time with trail braking. I'm yet to go riding and discover the difference but are hopeful for decreased stress levels and a little more fun than I am having atm. As a newer rider I am feeling very vindicated that my concerns and feelings of fear are not just because I am a useless rider and 'not getting it'. So many of your explanations match my experience and I am feeling very grateful to have come across these tutorials. Thank you.
This is an old thread hope you’re still riding. One thing that really helped me progress was to go back and forth on this stretch of road that had a lot of turns. Some of the turns were hard or scary and some easier. After going back and forth on that road the scary ones were manageable, the hard ones I could take with skill and the less scary ones I could fine tune my approach and improve my technique. I think mastering that little stretch of road set me up to manage newer roads with some confidence and skill. But with a respect for being safe and in control.
When I started riding I automatically just started trail braking. It just ‘physics-ly’ made sense to me. But more so, it settles the suspension into the corner and causes it to want to ‘grip’ better.
You have the best traction when your suspension is sitting even when weight is evenly applied to both tires this is a fact of physics...and not up for debate...can you shift your weight to apply more weight and possiably get more traction out of acertian tire sure if it has the right properties to make use of that but that takes traction away from the other tire
Allen Brodess - however your suspension is always a dynamic system, and while decelerating into a turn, the bike weight shifts forward and the front suspension compresses. You would be ‘correct’ if we were entering a constant turn st a constant speed with a constant lean angle all through. No one rides that way. Trail braking allows you to come in hotter and control not only suspension compression but also weight imbalance while shortening wheel base and not risking traction or brake lockup.
It is worth noting that the esteemed Lee Parks dedicated a section of his book, Total Control, to trail braking for the streets, as well as coaching the technique in his safety classes which have been officially adopted by numerous states as well as the US military.
I use front brake and counter steering…has always worked well for me. Yes…blind corners are to b respected until your clear and confident… just found your tube… like it!! Started riding in 1969 at age of 13… Honda 90 scrambler… clutch and 5 gears… Great platform to start on..!!
So here's how I'm simplifying it in my head and I'm curious if this is right, so tell me: 1. Adding throttle makes the bike lift the front, making it wanna go straight, forward and also makes turning radius wider due to increase in speed. 2. Braking makes the bike dip the front, making it wanna go to the side and lean over and also tightens the turning radius due to decrease in speed. So from these two, I conclude that braking lightly into a turn and accelerating out of it would be optimal, more so than for cars, which can more easily turn without losing balance at speed. Am I wrong?
Very nice vid! I started doing this years ago without even knowing about the technique. A lot of people that have been riding for years don't really know this. What happened to me is that, after a lot of practice I had really polished this technique for with my previous ducati monster. I'd go in quick into any tight corner and use this technique to then do corrections if needed, brake, then lean more. A few months ago, I changed to a new bike, MT09 SP. The brakes have a different feeling to them but I had too much confidence from my previous bike that on my first rides I automatically started trail braking without even noticing. ABS switched on in middle of the corner and I almost shit myself xD Its all cool now, I got the used to the new brakes and I'm back to normal :P
Holy crap! I've been riding for years and was a MSF rider coach myself and their technique was just a part of how I rode, until I saw this video. I will be honest and tell you that I had heard of it but didn't understand what it was to the point that I made assumptions it was with the back brake so I steered far from that. It does take some getting used to and conditioning to understand how good/bad your brakes are but it works!
Took my new GoPro out for a test ride today over the mountains. 42 miles of twisties with very, very few straighaways. I practice trail braking at every opportunity and I am always pleasantly surprised at how well it works over the SLPR method. I've probably already commented on this video but I don't care. I'm commenting again. I never tire of rehashing things that I've learned here and I re-watch videos frequently to keep the concepts fresh in my mind and then take it to the mean streets for practical application. Have a wonderful Christmas, Dave! My very best to you and yours!!
I’m just around the corner from my GOLDEN anniversary on motorbikes and want to say THANKS for taking so much time to show and explain how to make my ride so much more fun and much safer. In my late 30’s and early 40’s all you young whipper-snappers were just full of opinions, was I way off on that train of thought. Each time you do one of these videos it makes my next ride more challenging but so so much more fun. Between this video and the face you fear video I now have a whole summers worth of practicing to do. So thank you for putting things in terms we can all understand.
Brakes are always a fundamental aspect in increasing the average speed. Thanks a ton. I had a vague idea about it and I use this technique but still you totally opened up that Pendora's box to me.
2:10 Not many ppl know this but there are these white and yellow squared signs that give you a good idea of how fast you should go around a corner you've never been around.
Not sure where you live and ride, but maybe 1 out of every 100 corners have advisory speed signs on them out here. And even then, only about 10% of those are accurate. 😎
I actually do this "all the time" (when needed) unconsciously and I *never* coast, it makes the bike all loose and it's dangerous. Anyway, for some reason it has always felt better doing this then the "traditional" slow-look-press thing..! It was good to watch this video as I now have learnt the essentials of Trail Braking so I can improve more something I was making out of instinct!!!
Glad to find all these good technique videos before I start riding so I can have a baseline of knowledge when I begin. The less bad habits I pick up early the better.
I love your channel. I am back on the two wheel road. I started practicing trail braking very early. I only have 3600 miles on my bike (klx 230) but can honestly say this practice has made me a far better rider. By trail braking through every and all turns I have saved myself from countless spills. By having a gentle touch you can feel the motorcycle drop in the front. You can feel the sure-footedness right away. How many times I have had to brake to a crawl so that I could safely pass through an area of the road with bad traction or even gravel. It definitely takes practice. And you can definitely find yourself feeling over confident. However, I am faster and safer and I can feel it. I have had to come to a near stop so many times. I have a pretty good idea of how those scenarios would have ended if I had not been practicing this technique. Thanks for sharing your knowledge! Ride safe compatriots!✌️
Ever since watching this video, everytime I go into a corner the dude's voice pops into my head "What're you going to do? Add more coast??" Thanks for putting out this video. I've watched it a few times and it has had a profoundly positive effect on my riding and cornering confidence. I still don't do it perfectly, but that voice in my head keeps reminding me!
For some reason when you become familiar with your bike and you get used to riding the twisties. Trail braking just seems to come naturally for most people. It just makes more sense.
Thank you for the video. I have been riding a TW adventure bike custom. with an extended rear tire. In the beginning i used a lot of the rear brake in the wet,dry and in corner. Several times i almost lost control till i practiced and perfected used the front brake. It's amazing. I guess i will improve as i use the tricks you have given us.
Yes. Thats what they mean, and it's not accurate logic. You don't need acceleration (or throttle) to achieve stability. The brakes provide stability. Rake and trail affect stability. Tire pressure affects stability.
We have an updated version of this video that goes into a little bit more detail and answers some of the most common questions. Check it out! th-cam.com/video/fuoYUYFNkGI/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for keeping on this subject! I keep sharing this clearly-correct information with fellow riders and tend to get a LOT of pushback. 😣
I won't say his name but I've listened to another instructor on TH-cam talking about devices for motorcycles and how they function, he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about accepting a very generalized sense. This man seems to understand what he's saying. I still remember going out in motorcycle outings with my father who rode in Orlando as a police officer and was also friends with some of the fastest motorcycle racers in the country. Almost every one of them asked him to get into racing because he was so much better than they were. But he said because he had kids and several people that he knew had already been killed in racing, that was not going to work well. Being the late 50s and into the early 60s, I still remember when one of his friends died I believe that Watkins Glen in 64 or earlier. I'm not exactly sure. At least that's the way I remember hearing it but I was quite young at the time. But I've ridden motorcycles for quite some time now and knock on wood, I have yet to put one down. Good information in this video
Been riding for 40+ years and was an MSF instructor way back in the early days, I must admit that I had no understanding of what trail braking really meant. Thank you for the clear explanation. Old Dogs can learn new tricks. Now to get out there and practice.
Kudos to you sir to accepting to learn new things.
Yep, this old dog is going out to practice this. Could've used this at the Dragon on a very tight right but instead used only the rear brake and chose the forest straight ahead. At the time riding a ZRX 1200 standard but accelerating essay too fast into an unknown curve!
That’s right everyone has different skill sets , and different experiences ... with age your more than likely to have a lot more experiences and knowledge depending on the environment and the resources in that environment , that is why you or we all have something to learn from the young generation and the older generation , once we learn that we’ve only scratched the surface , then we can make the leap into the deeper subjects of the matters at hand .. 🤷🏼♂️ just my two cents and a theory I try to live by ...
You probably do it already and don’t even notice.
Old dog! 🙋♀️
MotoGP rider Bradley Smith was asked once in an interview, "What advice would you give street riders?". Smith's response was to practice pushing your bike around, like, on your feet and off the bike pushing, and engage the front brake as softly as possible, learn to feel the first bite and get to know it well. He was advocating trail braking.
Yeah, Smith is one of those racers that really really understands how a motorcycle works. He's brilliant.
I wonder how many MotoGP and WorldSBK riders actually ride on the street. My guess is that for the top level riders, not much if at all.
@@admiralbeez8143 I watched a video where an Italian guy mentions that. And I think Rossi doesn’t ride out of the track. Too much risk. Cars trees fire hydrants drunk or distracted drivers. Its amazing how many times they wreck and walk away on the track. Cant do that in the outdoors.
@@admiralbeez8143 they have contracts to not do certain activities such as riding oon the street
@@anubis8680 that's funny because I also heard a couple interviews of race car drivers that just drive a "slow pickup truck" and another one that mentions he just rides super bikes
"by using the brakes we are the ones in charge" The best piece of motorcycle advice I've heard. Some riders I see are on a motorcycle but not really in control of it. Knowing you have the knowledge and skill to command your motorcycle in any scenario makes riding much more enjoyable. Yes, the more you know the better it gets.
They are more concerned about what people think of them, then hurting them self, others or getting killed.
Heard people that care more about what others will say or think if someone saw that they was training in a parking lot. Then getting killed in a crash. It cant get any more stupid, if you ask me. Training on something to me, has never been embarrassing.
If someone makes fun of me for practicing, I only laugh at them. Because I know they are stupid, and don't understand much. And probably going to have a short, hard life.
THANKS FOR SAVING MY ARSE TODAY!!!
Been riding 15 years.
Getting complacent.
Saw this video a year or so back.
Today, on a road I know A BIT, curvy, trees both sides. Hammering along at 70/80 because I know I can along here. No nasty surprises along here. I remember.
Then I find myself right on top of a sharp left hander. SH1T!! Where'd THAT come from?? Lean angle wasn't going to do it. Presence of mind to remember progressive breaking....
Now it's lean in time - still too fast!
Then I remembered trail breaking - ease off lever a bit, tip in...thank christ, heading towards apex, gradually ease off lever some more, apex, ease throttle back on...
Enter in terror - exit grinning like a fool.
Home to Her in one piece & having a lovely Friday evening.
THANK YOU!!
Fantastic comment!
Being one of those who got hammered with the "kill all speed for a turn and accelerate out of it regardless" , I found myself well impressed with the clarity and common sense you guys showed in this video. Thank you ever so much for sharing this. Even though I've been driving a motorcycle for decades now, I learned something new today. For which I'm gratefull. Thanks guys!
Im currently a MSF RiderCoach and you highlight a very problematic part of this curriculum that needs to change.
No alot of new riders lack the required muscle memory and experience to properly use the trail braking technique. As you can see here in the comments. So the MSF is taking the safest route. Whatever a rider learns after the course is on them and so are the consequences.
@@jotunheim5302 its taught in the advanced class but not in basic. Due to lack of enrollment i think the basic shoyld take some things from the advanced
@YesMan, I remember coaching brand new riders who were gently slowing to the middle of the corner very naturally on their own, to stop and accelerate through the entire corner. The only value I can figure that comes from SLPR is that it really drives home the importance of setting a conservative entrance speed. But most people trail brake in their cars, on their bicycles... My mom, who has never ridden a motorcycle and is the most conservative woman in the world trail brakes in her little car all the way to the apex of the freeway off ramp.
@@CanyonChasers when I trail break during driving, I am on the break the hardest, maybe 30% before the apex, then feather off from there to,make it smooth.
But doing this on a bike, I'd be leaning.
My MSF said never be ON the front break during a lean because you can low side... I ride a sport bike..
Is this true? I have wide close calls frequently unless my approach speed is slow.
@@LightGesture it's all a matter of how much traction you are using for turning and braking. Front brake gradually applied actually gives more available turning traction because you are placing more downward force on it.
Snatching the brake in a lean will overcome the available traction because you aren't giving the bikes weight time to shift or the suspension the opportunity to dampen it.
You can actually low side from releasing a heavy application of brake mid lean because you are reducing the downward force on the tire.
I like the idea of "keep the brake light on through the apex" it gives you that 1% or better braking and keeps weight loaded on the front. Just focus on keeping the light on, then you can increase your ability naturally.
Used trail braking inadvertently when I got my bike last year. Was still recovering from knee surgery and found it was literally uncomfortable to move my ankle when riding. As a result I found that using the front brake was much more suitable for me until my knee (and ankle) felt better. Now I'm feeling more in control thru the corners using the trail braking technique. Thanks for a great description thru your video! Only thing I would add (as more of a reminder) is to not become fixated on the hazard spots of the corners (ie: guard rails, other vehicles, objects, etc). Keep looking as far ahead as you can in the direction you want to go and not at the perceived obstacles. Thx.
I watched this video when you 1st uploaded it back in 2018, I took the bike out that very afternoon and practised trail braking, over the next few day I spoke to my friends about it and they ALL said "nah rubbish, never trail brake" but I carried on for a few more days trying it out.... 2 years later I can honestly say it's made me a better rider and given me so much confidence in corners, now I wouldn't ride any other way and even recommend this video to my new rider friends... Thank you....
Dude!! That's amazing!! Thank you for taking the time to come back and tell your story. Mind if I share this comment?
@@CanyonChasers Hey your more than welcome, yeah please share and thank you
I get what you mean but that doesn’t mean that teal braking makes sense. Especially the guys who made this video doesn’t understand what trail braking is. He really doesn’t understand. But if it help you to practice that’s the most important
@@greatdane145 let's hear your explanation then, einstein
Coasting is engine braking, which is rear wheel braking. This was the aha moment of the video for me.
exactly the same for me. I had to pause the video and think for a moment and then understood and whatched further. thanks for this simple statement, very helpful.
Yup, me too - I think I use engine braking quite a lot and the brakes not as much as I should. I tried trail braking - or what I thought was trail braking (important distinction) - on one ride, but got tied in knots and my corners weren't nearly as smooth as usual, so I didn't persevere. This excellent video will make me try again. Really great explanation.
Lol me too. I been using rear brake and engine breaking when entering corner sometimes when in corner too. This video makes me realize how suck I am with riding.
My question is, how do I fix this? I find myself thinking bout trail braking as I’m going through a curve, however, I get to a point where just the slowing force of the engine braking is taking me to a slower speed than is necessary for completing the curve and I ease onto the throttle before I’m even thinking about exiting. Does this happen to anyone else?
@@Saxophonedan you don't NEED to trail brake. It sounds like your entering the turn slower than needed which is perfectly fine. All that matters is making it where you need to go in one piece
I had many moments of terror every time I rode for past 10 years until I tried trail braking. No more being scared. I always preferred following someone, buy now I love to lead. Thank you!!
while entering the corner, and when you start leaning, dou you maintain the throttle while applying little brake, or you completely release the throttle while leaning towards apex? So basicaly my question is do you use throttle and break same time, or just break while leaning and then in apex smoothly transition to throttle? In that case, what if you slow down too much while leaned down, let's say corner end longer and inward....
Did you find answer to your question? Im wondering the same
@@Igor12822 somebody answer this please!
@@notfunni I think trail braking works best when it's a relatively tight low speed corner. When approaching the corner, the throttle is idle and brakes are being applied. You would then trail off the brakes around the turn in point, maintaining slight front brake + idle throttle until reaching the apex.
But if it's a long sweeping corner where you may not even need to slow down, then it doesn't make much sense to brake the whole way through the first half of the corner. In that case it calls for either just a steady throttle, or brief roll off + light braking just to help the bike turn in.
@@lubey111 thank you
Seems like many of you who believe trail braking is dangerous think it means maximum braking into the turn. No, you missed the fundamental message that you brake earlier and longer into the bend and gradually feather off of it as you transition to throttle. You don't whang on the brake and hold that pressure the entire time into the curve. The entire point is to leave a greater margin or "traction budget". You don't just brake deeper into the turn, you brake earlier - *not harder*. It also means you apex later and get a better view. Trail braking does not mean, "rushing the corner".
Thank you! I'm befuddled by how many people think trail braking is a hamfisted grabbing of the front brake, and how many of those people seem to insist that's what I said.
Thank you. I was about to say this very thing.
Why not just brake earlier, go into the curve slower without needing any brake to maintain control and wait until you are through the curve to accelerate?
I think a lot of the negative comments are coming from people who didn't watch the entire video. They heard or read "braking" and "corner" and were triggered and just launch off into their explanations as to why it's so "dangerous." They are so "knowledgeable", they don't even know that MSF teaches trail braking now.
Lisa Jones, seems to me that you need more practice with this technique. It's not about knowledge, it's about careful control and concentration. Maybe people could be riding this way without even realizing it. Either way, it's not always a good idea to believe everything you see on TH-cam.
I was never taught this - I think I did it intuitively but always felt like I was breaking a rule or something based on what I was taught. Good to know I’m not crazy for doing it this way.
I've always ridden like this intuitively all my riding life and never knew it was called trail braking lol.. It's either you have a feel for it or don't. If you don' then most likely those riders are at potentially risking themselves crashing more often than not.
Riding a motorcycle requires a lot of skill and understanding of the machine. Each bike can behave differently, but they're all essentially the same if you apply the same logic.
Youre right i did this intuitively and asked other riders about it because i felt like I was breaking a rule of using front brake in a turn.. Didnt know the term for it til now
Remember all trail braking is light and very steady. You are not stopping your bike or chopping speed, you are slowly grinding down your speed.
Practice first with a feather touch.
Amazing to have this free information available to us. I learned this the hard way... but man to hear it in words would have saved me lots of money and a broken shoulder. Thank you for the video! It's extremely helpful and I guarantee many accidents and injuries have been avoided because of this team.
Been doing this for years - both onroad and offroad. This is probably the best instructional video of trailbraking I've ever seen ! +1
Thanks for this pro tip. I've always been taught to get all things in order prior to the corner, and not mess with brakes with bike at lean. You talked about the struggle that I've always had on roads that I'm not familiar with. On a known road I know the gear \ braking needed to feel safe going through a corner, but as soon as I end up on a new road I'm in learning mode. My riding style completely changes as I try to guess what gear \ braking is needed. This is usually fine on the corners that allow for a little more room for error, but on those corners where there's a hair pin type turn it can get unsettling. I'm going to start holding the brake a little longer, and give this a try on my "home" roads that I'm familiar with.
The hard part for me is being on the brake, and holding the throttle steady as well.
after many years, I've in the last year started doing this. It's by far one of the very best techniques I've EVER done. So much more control and confidence in corners.
no one taught me the term 'trail braking' but as i gained experience on the bike, this technique saved me numerous times when i went into corners bit too hot.
Agreed, but it will come naturally with experience. Not for new riders.
Try setting your entry speed earlier, just as Keith Code teaches.
MSF course just pushed me to be a safe rider.
Thanks Dave so much I recently starting doing this as after many miles covered now I was getting bad and a bit scared going into to corners after recently running wide, i did think i was wrong breaking into a corner but couldn’t understand how right and safer it felt until i found this video and now understand it was a technique😀👍 called trail breaking😮out practising it even more cant thank you enough, working through all your videos and subscribed ride well🙏👍
Thank you for the kind words and the generosity!
So I commented on this video over a year ago asking for additional clarification which I received. I then commenced to practicing the technique a lot under controlled and concentrated conditions. I now use it all the time and consider it especially helpful when approaching downhill curves. I can directly attribute this knowledge and subsequent practice to saving my bacon on a couple of misjudged curves. All I did was delicately apply a touch more brake while trail braking. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. It's the best explanation of trail braking I have been able to find.
point #2.... "why would you want to accelerate when you can't see what's ahead" ? because you have never crashed before, and think you're invincible.
because it gives you maximum grip. the reason your rear tire is larger than your front and you have roughly 50/50 weight distribution is because the bike was designed to accelerate. use your brakes while leaned over, your probably down to less than half of your grip.
Haha, there's some truth to that!
The old saying in motorcycling is "there are those that have crashed and those that will crash"
Many times, you can force your way threw, by going fast enough.
LOL....pretty good one!
I learned trail braking before I took my first MSF course, I was told I was wrong and to never keep my fingers on the brake lever, sorry but trail braking saved me more than once and I even taught my wife way before watching this video and finding out I was correct after years of being told I was wrong by 7 different instructors ... I have had some terrible instructors, this video needs to be seen by all MSF instructors.
always keep a finger or two on that lever in dangerous areas. the time it takes for you to lift it of the bar to the lever could kill you
Trail breaking would have saved me in my recent low-side. I expected a lot less tight of a turn heading onto a highway onramp and got 3/4 through before I realized I was going too fast. I tried to break using my front breaks but second guessed myself since breaking is supposedly bad in turns, and it became too late to do anything. I wasn't sure how to correct myself, even though I had been breaking through most of the turn. If I had been told that I could break more with the front break after that and correct myself, I wouldn't have crashed.
couldnt agree more!
@@michaelhimich5188 I had this too. They almost failed me. I'd learned the habit bike messengering, and it was IMPOSSIBLE to stop doing it. It had saved my life a few times.
I had been riding for probably 30 years before I took the MSF course. I was constantly being "criticized" for resting my fingers on the brake lever, as well as for only using 2 fingers while using the front brake. You're not supposed to use the front brake while riding the MSF course, because you're doing a lot of slow and low-speed turning. By using the front brake while turning, you increase the chances of "folding" the front end of the bike and going down.
I was only taking the MSF course after riding for decades, because I had planned on becoming an instructor. I looked at it this way: I did what they wanted me to do, the way they wanted me to do it, so I could pass the course (which I did). In my opinion, if you're an MSF instructor and you're not teaching the curriculum AS WRITTEN, you shouldn't be an instructor. It's not your job to rewrite the curriculum, it's to teach the curriculum the way the "experts" wrote it.
Personally, after passing the course, I decided to not pursue being an MSF Rider Coach, because I didn't necessarily agree with what was being taught and/or the way it was being taught. Novel concept, I know.
I'm a very new rider , I've only been out a couple of times but I applied this and all I can say is wow....made cornering much easier and I felt much more comfortable..great video ..thanks
This is the third time I have watched this video in the last year. Congratulations one making one of the best motorcycle videos on TH-cam.
Trail braking changed everything for me on the street. Thank you 🙏
I'm new to riding on the street, and I find corners intimidating sometimes. The way I've been taught just doesn't always feel good. A few times I've come out of a difficult corner and realized I've instinctively done just what you're describing - I'll notice that it worked really well, but then I'd think "wow I was lucky, better not do that again!" Now I understand why. From now on I'll work on it on purpose! Thanks for reminding us how braking and accelerating affects bike geometry.
Smoothness in operating all the controls is the biggest deal in riding a bike, even more so on a high power one...
Jnjjjjjj 🔖🔖🔖🔖👗🔖🔖🤔🤔♉🤔🤔🤔🔖🔖🔖🔖🔖👗🔖🙄🙄♉🤔👗👗🔖🔖🔖♉🔖🔖🔖🔖🔖🔖👗🔖🔖🔖🔖🔖🔖🔖🔖🔖🔖👗🔖🙄🔖🔖🔖🔖🔖🔖🔖🔖♉
This is pure motorcycling gold! Great video.
I thought we should tip in revving. I saw many rider coaches saying that we need keep revving to add traction in the back rear because it's prevents the bike from sliding. I always enter into the corned reviving and I revving up while the bike becomes upright in the of the corner.
I just watched the vid.. after years of riding, I started doing this a couple of months ago.. where I live the twisties are sometimes bumpy and can go off-camber in the corners... so after I started 'trail-braking' I was able to keep my line in the corner and maintain my speed throughout the corner and exit easily... without 'trail-braking', the corners were a bit dangerous and unpredictable to ride through... often I would have to back-off or brake fast which made each of the corners really hairy... so thanx for the vid .. awesome stuff explained easily.
Thank you, my dear friend, this saved me today, and I saw this video yesterday. I was riding a tight corner and it was a blind corner, I had a little front brake on when I entered a corner and all of a sudden an SUV was riding in opposite direction in my lane ( it's. Two line country road ) and I managed to brake effiflciently and slow down enough to maneuver safely through. ( My motorcycle is a classic 350 and don't have abs)
Thank you
Whoa, that's a dangerous situation.
amazing story, happy to see it in the comments after i watch this video for the first time :D
I faced same situation, but without trial braking.. somehow I managed... But it was close to death... Escaped...
Now I need to learn trail braking...
Glad you used trail braking and stayed safe. Cheers from a Classic 500 rider
Not only does trail braking:
-change the geometry so the bike wants to turn more,
-but also loads the front tire increasing contact patch
-AND reduces speed at the same time.
💯
I agree with what you are saying. Although there is a nurd response to the term acceleration, applying acceleration maintains speed when doing advanced driving and riding for emergency services. Let me explain: when a vehicle goes into a corner under the same acceleration, there are additional frictional forces. (The vehicle slows.) You are required to add a slight accelerator to maintain speed. This does not increase velocity. So we are taught that you need to add acceleration to maintain speed. You only increase velocity when the way is clear and the vanishing point starts to move away. I hope that helps people. It's akin to people believing that the handlebars cause a motorcycle to turn when, in fact, it is lean.
It's hard to clear things up for folks when we invent new definitions for words. The definintion of acceleration is, according to the dictionary; "begin to move more quickly" Therefore, acceleration would indeed mean increase velocity.
However, you are also not wrong, just using terrible language. We've done an addition to this video that goes a bit deeper into the point you are trying to make. th-cam.com/video/fuoYUYFNkGI/w-d-xo.html
I rode without trail breaking on I first got my license on my Ninja 250 however once I got a bigger bike I had hard time turning specially at roundabouts. After a while I searched breaking safely while turning and thats when I learned about trail breaking and now riding and turning is not scary anymore.
That graphic with the rake and trail was really well done!
I watched this video yesterday and tried Trail braking out today. It really helped me taking corners better and riding through them more stable. It also helped me correcting my line when i took a corner faster than usual. You earned a sub, good content and good videos!
Thats awesome to hear! Thanks for the feedback!!
It definitely gives you more confidence on unknown roads.
I would highly suggest learning trail braking and practicing it on the race track before you start applying it to the road because until you really get a feel for it it's easy to lose the front end and end up on your ass and at least from my experiences a low side on the track is gonna be a lot safer than a low side on the street a lot less likelihood of hitting an oncoming car or hitting a guardrail or anything of that nature on the track your more than likely just going to slide off the track and be OK.
Been doing that for about 20 years. I ride Harleys hard and learned from a really good sport bike guy. Respect!
I am a 50 year old man who has just purchased his first bike SV650 LAMS in Australia, I can’t even ride yet because of Covid, however I have been watching your content and it’s is so informative and I think when I do get to start riding I will have good habits because of what I’m learning from you! Thank you
Hope you get to enjoy riding! 😊🙏🏼
Hello mate did u start riding now?
Australia ? Authoritarian shit hole?
just completed a three day adventure riding course in the hills of Oregon and we practiced this braking relentlessly. Then I rode 5 hours back to my house and practiced this on every moderate to tight corner I took and the response was almost magical. Great video and instructional advice.
So basically what I'm seeing is that I should start applying the front brake before the corner, even if ever so lightly, and ride the front brake through the corner until I'm confident I can exit safely. If the corner tightens unexpectedly, I can slowly apply more pressure to the front brake regardless of what point of the corner I'm in, since I already started the turn with my front brake depressed, allowing me to tighten my lean angle. Am I getting this right?
Absolutely correct! :D
yes, if you've ever ridden a mt bike 🚴 down a steep hill you'll definitely understand subtle applications of the front brake~b/c you're constantly on the brakes...too much = loss of control...not enough=too much speed and...loss of control. Goldie lochs = just right😜😱🤔💥🐒💩
You mean the master of torque bikes ?? I do this with my 07
Zaka Pentax pretty sure he means mountain bike
XT Anon It’s a fine line with how much break you can apply and lean angle. The OP of the video needs to be extremely clear on this. I feel that he wasn’t clear at all. The more lean angle you apply to turn,the lighter you have to be on the breaks. You can’t crank the bike over to 50 degrees of lean and grab a hand full of front break. The key to trail breaking is as the bike increases lean,you decrease breaking. The OP and the video seems to be intended for novice and above. He doesn’t explain this for the absolute noob.
Trying trail braking without learning the basic skills will cause problems. Most of these problems can be avoided if you avoid entering a corner faster than your skill set and not paying attention ahead to determine if a decreasing radius is about to hit. Trail braking is best mastered when you have sufficient skills under your belt. I have trail braked as well but very judiciously; in 20 years of riding I seldom needed to. Great video.
Yeah, thats kinda the advice that has been floating around for years. But what do you do if you find yourself in the middle of the corner going faster than you want? The "You should have been going slower" advice is pretty much worthless at that point. So is the "Just lean more" Not every bike and not every rider is capable of just leaning more.
All of us naturally trail brake, from little kids on pedal bikes, to my mom in in her Nissan Juke. The only place that tries to tell us its dangerous is basic riding schools wtih cirriculm based on one guys experience club racing in the '70s. Trail braking - or simply slowing into a corner until we are happy with our speed and direction - is not an advanced technique and it's not hard for new riders to grasp and do smoothly. Several entitites, myself included, have been teaching it to brand new riders for well over a decade now. Remember, motorcycles are designed and engineered to turn more effectively with a little bit of front brake applied.
I would encourage you to use it a lot less judicisously, Even 1% of brake pressure entering corners and your bike will be more stable, your corners will be more precise, you'll have more grip on the front tire - the tire needed to change direction - and if you have to slow more for any reason - faster than you wanted to go or something unexpected in your path, all you gotta' do is just add in a few extra points of brake pressure. It's the most natural thing in the world if we're willing to discard that one 1970s club racers dire warnings from 40 years ago.
@@CanyonChasers Well said. Cheers.
Thanks for this public service. Suddenly I'm seeing trail braking videos all over the place, but yours was the first, and I like the approach you used. I've ridden bikes for almost 20 years, and I was always timid about corners, apparently because I was trying to follow the old dogma you mentioned. So many close calls due to coming out of the corner wide, sometimes crossing the center line. As a result, I haven't put many miles on my bikes, simply because the fear factor interfered so much with the fun factor. I'm looking forward to getting back on the Bonneville and experimenting with this technique.
Lots of YCRS/ Spencers type info in the vid. There is way too much misinformation out there WRT trail braking. Good job distilling it down a bit. Last time I did YCRS Scott Russell talked a little about having the confidence to stay with the brakes especially if you colossally eff up a corner and get in too hot or off line. You may loose positions but you can still be in the race by reeling it in and not running off and crashing. This is a even more important skill on the street where if you make a mistake you may not have safe runoff. And we know all good riders never make mistakes ;)..
New to riding a sport bike/any bike. Was having trouble judging speed into corners. Either went a little wide or cut the corner much too short. Watched this guy say the complete opposite to my instructors when I took my test. Amazing, 1 week of practicing this technique at every corner, tight or no so tight, works for them all really). Slowly off the brake as you lean the bike into the corner, at the same time as you add throttle you let go of the rest of the brake (all one motion). I've never been more confident going into a tighter corner, I'm quicker and more confident. works 100%
Some years ago, when I bought my first bike, I watched this video. Later I bought a book but until now I wasn't able to understand trail breaking. KNOWLEDGE, EXPERIENCE and WORK are necessary. Thanks for such quality on your material.
Since I passed my UK bike test in 1980 before it got difficult, nobody has ever mentioned anything like this to me. Not even when I much later passed the IAM so called advanced test! I’m now subscribed and I’ll start practicing straight away. Many thanks.
I think to describe the idea is kinda difficult, he is covering too many ideas at once.
Start with this idea .... barely touching the front brake, preloads the front suspension .....
Carrying this preload into the corner towards the apex keeps the front suspension loaded, increasing traction OVER coasting in.
PLUS a side bonus .. ((from coasting into corner .. then into apex..then you need to have front brakes)) .if you try to touch the front brakes once you are leaned over, it's easy to grab too much AND some bikes like Harleys have to soft a front suspension, so they DIVE really bad (in this situation)
Also soft street cruisers benefit more than rice rockets
What I found surprising, I discussed the trail braking (and more specifically Brake Light Initiative) with one IAM observer who was assessing my ride on the other occassion, and he was basically discouraging use of it whilst appreciating the use of it on the track.
Not quite sure why (although their book does the same, "brake before you lean"), since I exactly explained him the pros, but I guess this may be because of the IAM's focus on the safe and predictable street riding (not quite slow, but not necessarilly efficient).
That's because it is mainly a racing technique to get around corners faster and more efficiently, which is something you shouldn't be doing in the street. Everyone who race/circuits cars usually trail brakes. I rarely do it on the bike and only with familiar corners. If I'm able to trail brake on a corner that I'm taking 'fast' and not familiar with and somehow save myself from crashing/crossing over the line, it means I wasn't going fast enough - trail braking didn't save me.
Generally, I agree with you.
The motorcycles I learned on were old, top-heavy bikes with narrow tires. Before I took a safety coarse, I learned on city areas and narrow, and bumpy, twisted watershed roads that often had loose asphalt from road patches.
I will not recommend anyone do anything, but I found that where conditions were good, and at very slow speeds, while the bike was upright, I practiced feeling just what it took to make the rear tire skid. I found that even with a lowly 450cc engine, that skid threshold was very dependent on engine rpm. Engine compression braking during de-acceleration is something I like to get a feel for--while modulating the rear brake. Especially at low RPMs, if the engine wants to stall, surely, it alone wants to skid the rear tire. What I wanted to learn: at each given engine RPM, at varying surface and tire conditions, how much rear brake must I subtract to make the rear tire microskid on compression strokes.
Obviously, cornering and braking forces are applied to the same tire contact patch. Obviously, as you slow, much of the weight comes forward, and as you said, compressing the forks, and changing the suspension geometry. By its nature, like a shopping cart wheel, trail keeps the front wheel stable, and I do think that your assertion that keeping the bike level/from not diving, so the trail does not diminish is a handy technique.
Still, I feel one of the most important mantras to use, is to look where I am going, and if I cannot see, then slow down. You mentioned something to that effect. Not riding your bike into the unknown may take the fun out of it, but where I rode, I never knew where branches might have come down. I never new where a pile of wet leaves might have been. I never knew where the pot holes might have formed, that day. Not all the blind-driveways where marked.
I don't trust the public-works people to have built any stretch of road--until I see it for myself.
Sport-bikes are so fast now. Is there any reason why someone couldn't speed up later, when they can finally see?
So Damn true about not trusting road conditions to be at the maximum gripping capacity on a turn where you can't see. Well said!
This video has made all the difference !! As a beginner rider with less than five hours on the bike and reviewing this video a couple times it brought control and confidence and joy into turns. Thank you for sharing. I just did a 40 mile canyon ride yesterday and it was smooth sailing.
Good stuff, thanks. One point; you said why would you want to accelerate when you don’t know where the corner is going. I often do this to maintain lean angle when the corner opens up. Ultimately I don’t know where the corner is going but within the area of the corner I am traversing right at that moment I have a clear path. Obviously this only happens when not going too quickly. You helpfully explained why this works, changing the rake angle etc. very helpful. Thanks again.
Right. Yes. The front brake makes the bike want to slow and turn. Acceleration makes the bike want to go faster and stand up - but neutral throttle and the bike's radius stays the same. So on those long sweeping corners, neutral throttle to maintain our radius is the right thing to do. We call it, "riding the bike based on direction" - You will probably enjoy this video: th-cam.com/video/fuoYUYFNkGI/w-d-xo.html
One of the best tips for cornering. Having watched this sometime ago I started to practice this technique and you can definitely benefit from it. It gives you way more confidence if you need to slow in a corner as you brake in a more relaxed way as opposed to grabbing a handful and washing out in a panic as shown on shed loads of TH-cam vids.
I have watched this again after your personal experience on the benefits it gave you to your riding. It has made it a lot clearer looking at this again. Thank you for sharing, clearly backed by the science.
This has to be the best explanation of trail braking I've found yet on TH-cam. I've seen a few. None of the others make it clear that this is a front brake technique. They show using the front brakes, but never declare it. Thanks for that.
Technically, we can trail brake with the rear brake, but the front brake works worlds better! :)
Finally someone who's says "Slow down".
Loved the fork pressing and wheelbase graphic. Amazing video
Great video Dave! I wish all riders would be able to drop their pride and get some advance training on their bike. Being able to hold 3% front brakes really changed my riding.
I remember from 55 years ago a piece of advice I was given, slow in fast out. I think that was aimed mainly at rear wheel drive vehicles which were the predominant drive in those days. Used it in cars and motor cycles ever since without any problem. This sounds pretty similar, but it's really good to hear the reasoning for it.
It’s what we would call “risky” lmao had me crying.... was waiting for a technical term
I am so glad you explained this technique to me as I already practice this and feel save and in controle. As my riding buddies always tell me not to brake into a corner (they see my break light) I was beginning to question my technique..... But I was unable to explain it to them as I only knew it felt right. Now I know why and I can further practice and master the technique, Thanks!!!
Hmm. I was kind of excited about this video. Thought I was going to learn something new. Turns out I've been doing this instinctually already. Still watched the video though. Very informative.
Yes I do this too but now more aware of improved geometry in the turn .
So much of riding is instinctive and by feel. Knowing why your instinct is correct lets you consciously choose the best action for a situation... The may be times instincts are not correct.
I'm a new rider. Riding without liscense for couple years. Now I'm gonna get my liscense. Thanks for helping me improving my skills
Nicely stated and the most important instructions are at the end. Slow gently squeeze, not a "I grabbed the brakes and fell". Young riders need to learn the gradual application of throttle, brakes and sometimes clutch. Learn gradual building and releasing pressure on controls first and this method will work.
I ride mountains constantly (live here) and when going downhill on curve stacked on curve stacked again and again, you have to trail brake sometimes. Otherwise if accelerating through every curve you'd be doing a ton through the fourth switchback.
Learning how to gradually add and subtract throttle and brakes - slow hands make fast riders! :D
I do everything gradually with my gf. I start in a first gear and do gradual build up until 5th gear. Coming close to an end of a ride i drop it back in 2nd gear and finish with high rpm. In the end i dont't even give her a towel.. You know..
ChessMaster. So do you think about baseball? Remember she has needs too.
and you can't learn this if you start on a haybusa
Seems like good advice.
I was taught to be as smooth as possible - or rather to try to ride as smoothly as I possibly could.
Like driving a car, or even like using gym weights I guess - aim for smooth and the rest will almost take care of itself. I bit over-simple, perhaps, but it seems to work for me even after riding for a few years.
Nice video. Trail braking is what I've always used as a car racer and is a must with fwd cars if you want to have a shot at making the corner. Seeing this makes me wish I still had my RD350 that I used to carve up the Sierra Nevada mountain roads with back in the 70's.
I remember lusting after that Kenny Roberts RD350. Such a cool bike! :D
miata crosser, ha i get it!
any tips for rev matching downshifts in a car? I've got the art down on two wheels. Seems more difficult in the car though.
I still have my 1981 RD350LC!
Ahh Duu no you don't. Try Me Autocrosser. (Shhh you're the first person I've shared that with)
"Add more Coast!" Love it! (And Guilty of doing it! lol)
Seriously though, Great Video. And I'm totally going to go out and try this.
Great video, I was always told "trail braking is bad" 👎 and only novices trail brake into corners. Since I've watched this& started to use the techniques, my riding is smoother, bends so much better and turning into side roads is now far more confident.. many thanks guys..
Wow, finally a video with actual specific techniques that I can go out and try out on the road. Cool, thanks!
I think it's important to understand that your not jamming on the break, but only using one or two finger low strength. I found adding baby and I mean super baby pressure on the rear break as well helps.
I taught myself how to ride a motorcycle, and I guess I've naturally been doing this technique. Never knew some people don't brake during the turn. Seems much more dangerous.
You're not "supposed" to brake during the turn, but if you know what you're doing and how to do it, of course you can. These guys (and guys like them) are trying to turn everyone into "Ricky Racer." The street is not a racetrack and shouldn't be treated like one. Does that mean I ride like an old lady when I'm out riding? Hell no! It just means I don't go around encouraging everyone to ride 3 times the speed limit while riding on a public road or highway, and instruct them on how to do it "safely."
@@maximusmax4557 I didn't get the feeling that this was about racing. It was more about giving yourself more control in bends. It does seem that a lot of people see it as applying the brakes in a corner, when it's really about keeping a light pressure on as you lean in to the turn, rather than coming off the brake completely. So the bike's geometry stays roughly the same, rather than weight on the front braking for the turn, then weight on the rear as you lean in and apply throttle, then weight shifting to the front if you apply the brakes. That's dangerous.
Here in Scotland, the roads are mostly twisties, and I've gone into bends that ended up feeling like they were more than 360 degrees :) I'm lucky in that I was trail braking, depending on the situation, before I'd heard about it. What a hero ;). Anyway, it does help massively in giving you control. Plus, I follow the rule of trying to always be able to stop in the distance you can see.
Can't wait for the weather to improve, so I can head into the Highlands again :))
Ride Safe
@@ME-ru4hv He literally explained on how to feather the front brakes and what would happen if you just squeezed down on them as you enter the turn, so if people don't want to follow what the guy said in this video and be stupid it is on them. The idea here is to actually listen to the words he says instead of paraphrasing....
@@maximusmax4557 They what do you do, when you suddenly have to brake hard in a turn. And you never practice it?
You don't have to be a street racer to go 80mph on the highway. And you have to brake hard and turn. If you never practice that. You want do it. You only crash. That's why most people on bikes crash in corners. Because they don't practice that, because they are not racing. But Bambi or Elk don't care what you are doing. He… or she… just jump into the road in front of you. They don't know that you have not any plans on emergency braking. And there for you have not trained on it.
Better to have way more tools then you need… Then to miss one when you need it…
That can cost you your life. That's why corners take the most lives. Because people think they can just ease through life slowly, whit minimal of knowledge. That is not the way to be safe.
Its not how fast you are going that kills you. It is the lack of knowledge what to do, when something happens.
I went through dozens of trail braking videos including this one in the past and never really got it until now. You made the physics come alive. I'm a retired driving instructor of 30 years and know a true professional teacher when I hear one. This video should be required viewing in all motorcycle classes.
I’m
Still trying to break the habit of using the rear break only, coming from dirt, I’ve always power slides into corners, can’t do that on street, trail breaking has allowed me gain confidence in my
Cornering, and entering speed.
I came from dirt bikes as well but I used my front brake more then my rear, I didnt even know I was "trail breaking" until I saw this video I was just naturally doing it
@@benfarr6049 coming from Dirt bikes, trailing kinda comes as a habit, except your not sliding into it.
I did this the entire time and i just thought it was the way to keep your line as smooth as possible. This takes away the intimidation of bikes for me. I do this in my cars too. I learned how to do this cuz my first project car was lacking ABS, TC, SC and allat and this helped the car handle amazing with me driving, so ima do it with my bike too
Is anyone here familiar with The Brake Light Initiative?
I understand trail braking involves doing most of the braking while upright, but instead of releasing the brakes before turning in and leaning the bike, slowly releasing the brakes as you lean the bike. Trail braking is not about applying the front brake while turning. It's about keeping pressure on the front brake to begin with, before leaning, and slowly releasing it as you begin to lean and continue to approach the appropriate lean angle.
Trail braking as used in racing aims to maximize the use of available traction as often as possible. By doing so, a racer can brake later, but longer, yet carry more speed through the corner.
Trail braking as applied to street riding is the opposite. You don't brake any later, but you do brake longer, effectively slowing down more for the corner. Slower means safer.
If you find trail braking interfering with your steering or line, that just means you're braking too hard, which in turn means you didn't brake enough while upright in a straight line, which means you either didn't brake hard enough or you braked too late. The technique is not at fault here. It's its execution.
why not just slow down enough to begin with?
Because sometimes you do not know how slow is 'slow enough'. Maybe the corner is blind and the corner tightens much more than expected (know a lot of those around here), big pot holes, illegally parked cars or what ever.
so that's why you slow down to the point that you can go around the corner, whater may lie ahead or how tight the corner might get.
looking trough the curve doesn't only imply to looking where you're going, but also to calculate with anything which might happen
"whatever may lie ahead" You must have lot's of fun on your bike
i don't know what your understanding of fun is, but going dangerously fast without knowing what is ahead of you is plain stupid, might as well go skydiving and not check whats in your bag
I've been watching and watching and watching the same few videos as I have ended up scared and uptight about cornering. I just don't feel safe. Thank you for sharing your story with the silver Honda and how you moved past that time with trail braking. I'm yet to go riding and discover the difference but are hopeful for decreased stress levels and a little more fun than I am having atm. As a newer rider I am feeling very vindicated that my concerns and feelings of fear are not just because I am a useless rider and 'not getting it'. So many of your explanations match my experience and I am feeling very grateful to have come across these tutorials. Thank you.
Took the words right outta my mouth
This is an old thread hope you’re still riding. One thing that really helped me progress was to go back and forth on this stretch of road that had a lot of turns. Some of the turns were hard or scary and some easier. After going back and forth on that road the scary ones were manageable, the hard ones I could take with skill and the less scary ones I could fine tune my approach and improve my technique. I think mastering that little stretch of road set me up to manage newer roads with some confidence and skill. But with a respect for being safe and in control.
When I started riding I automatically just started trail braking. It just ‘physics-ly’ made sense to me. But more so, it settles the suspension into the corner and causes it to want to ‘grip’ better.
Exactly!
Same! It feels all natural.
You have the best traction when your suspension is sitting even when weight is evenly applied to both tires this is a fact of physics...and not up for debate...can you shift your weight to apply more weight and possiably get more traction out of acertian tire sure if it has the right properties to make use of that but that takes traction away from the other tire
Allen Brodess - however your suspension is always a dynamic system, and while decelerating into a turn, the bike weight shifts forward and the front suspension compresses. You would be ‘correct’ if we were entering a constant turn st a constant speed with a constant lean angle all through. No one rides that way. Trail braking allows you to come in hotter and control not only suspension compression but also weight imbalance while shortening wheel base and not risking traction or brake lockup.
Allen Brodess but breaking before the corner and then accelerating around it is not the best solution. Trail braking works! Try it.
It is worth noting that the esteemed Lee Parks dedicated a section of his book, Total Control, to trail braking for the streets, as well as coaching the technique in his safety classes which have been officially adopted by numerous states as well as the US military.
Against everything I was told in MSF. Glad to see this early in my riding..
I use front brake and counter steering…has always worked well for me.
Yes…blind corners are to b respected until your clear and confident… just found your tube… like it!!
Started riding in 1969 at age of 13… Honda 90 scrambler… clutch and 5 gears…
Great platform to start on..!!
So here's how I'm simplifying it in my head and I'm curious if this is right, so tell me:
1. Adding throttle makes the bike lift the front, making it wanna go straight, forward and also makes turning radius wider due to increase in speed.
2. Braking makes the bike dip the front, making it wanna go to the side and lean over and also tightens the turning radius due to decrease in speed.
So from these two, I conclude that braking lightly into a turn and accelerating out of it would be optimal, more so than for cars, which can more easily turn without losing balance at speed.
Am I wrong?
Amazing. This has changed everything for me.
Very nice vid! I started doing this years ago without even knowing about the technique. A lot of people that have been riding for years don't really know this.
What happened to me is that, after a lot of practice I had really polished this technique for with my previous ducati monster. I'd go in quick into any tight corner and use this technique to then do corrections if needed, brake, then lean more. A few months ago, I changed to a new bike, MT09 SP. The brakes have a different feeling to them but I had too much confidence from my previous bike that on my first rides I automatically started trail braking without even noticing. ABS switched on in middle of the corner and I almost shit myself xD
Its all cool now, I got the used to the new brakes and I'm back to normal :P
...and the ABS coming on didn't give a clue that you shouldn't be braking mid corner???
Kryten L hahaha nope, I love trail braking 😛 I do it all the time.
I have 40 years of riding experience and am learning how to turn NOW ! Thanks.
Holy crap! I've been riding for years and was a MSF rider coach myself and their technique was just a part of how I rode, until I saw this video. I will be honest and tell you that I had heard of it but didn't understand what it was to the point that I made assumptions it was with the back brake so I steered far from that. It does take some getting used to and conditioning to understand how good/bad your brakes are but it works!
VMX yes I always thought exactly the same so didn’t try but after watching this am gonna start!👌🏽
Took my new GoPro out for a test ride today over the mountains. 42 miles of twisties with very, very few straighaways. I practice trail braking at every opportunity and I am always pleasantly surprised at how well it works over the SLPR method. I've probably already commented on this video but I don't care. I'm commenting again. I never tire of rehashing things that I've learned here and I re-watch videos frequently to keep the concepts fresh in my mind and then take it to the mean streets for practical application.
Have a wonderful Christmas, Dave! My very best to you and yours!!
I thought I was a good rider, but that's ignoring I that have issues in some curves.. this is enlightening! thanks
I’m just around the corner from my GOLDEN anniversary on motorbikes and want to say THANKS for taking so much time to show and explain how to make my ride so much more fun and much safer.
In my late 30’s and early 40’s all you young whipper-snappers were just full of opinions, was I way off on that train of thought. Each time you do one of these videos it makes my next ride more challenging but so so much more fun.
Between this video and the face you fear video I now have a whole summers worth of practicing to do. So thank you for putting things in terms we can all understand.
Awesome! Thank you for the feedback! I really appreciate it! And keep it up!
Brakes are always a fundamental aspect in increasing the average speed. Thanks a ton. I had a vague idea about it and I use this technique but still you totally opened up that Pendora's box to me.
2:10 Not many ppl know this but there are these white and yellow squared signs that give you a good idea of how fast you should go around a corner you've never been around.
Not sure where you live and ride, but maybe 1 out of every 100 corners have advisory speed signs on them out here. And even then, only about 10% of those are accurate. 😎
I actually do this "all the time" (when needed) unconsciously and I *never* coast, it makes the bike all loose and it's dangerous.
Anyway, for some reason it has always felt better doing this then the "traditional" slow-look-press thing..! It was good to watch this video as I now have learnt the essentials of Trail Braking so I can improve more something I was making out of instinct!!!
Glad to find all these good technique videos before I start riding so I can have a baseline of knowledge when I begin. The less bad habits I pick up early the better.
well u learn something new every day cheers .
Nice technique to add to my arsenal. Me and my sv650 thank you
I love your channel. I am back on the two wheel road. I started practicing trail braking very early. I only have 3600 miles on my bike (klx 230) but can honestly say this practice has made me a far better rider. By trail braking through every and all turns I have saved myself from countless spills. By having a gentle touch you can feel the motorcycle drop in the front. You can feel the sure-footedness right away. How many times I have had to brake to a crawl so that I could safely pass through an area of the road with bad traction or even gravel. It definitely takes practice. And you can definitely find yourself feeling over confident. However, I am faster and safer and I can feel it. I have had to come to a near stop so many times. I have a pretty good idea of how those scenarios would have ended if I had not been practicing this technique. Thanks for sharing your knowledge! Ride safe compatriots!✌️
Ever since watching this video, everytime I go into a corner the dude's voice pops into my head "What're you going to do? Add more coast??" Thanks for putting out this video. I've watched it a few times and it has had a profoundly positive effect on my riding and cornering confidence. I still don't do it perfectly, but that voice in my head keeps reminding me!
I dont even own a motorcycle lol
Leonidas I 😂🙌🏻
I was there at one point, watch enough of these videos and your gonna gind yourself riding sooner then later 😂
i mean it would be pretty stupid to buy one without seeing this video first huh? but now that you have this knowledge...
I do, but I live in a state that basically has no trail corners just city blocks lol.
I watched moto vids for 6 months straight before buying my first bike... You're on the right track, pun intended ;)
Best explanation and teaching style. Light bulb moment.
I'm p sure I've been doing this sometimes without being aware of the physics. Interesting and useful video, thanks !
For some reason when you become familiar with your bike and you get used to riding the twisties. Trail braking just seems to come naturally for most people. It just makes more sense.
Buy the recommend book if your still struggling to understand trail breaking. A superb read with very clear advice for road and track.
I've been doing this unknowingly for years, it all makes sense now
sirrus13 I was gonna comment the same. I've actually been doing it for as long as I can remember.
I agree, it comes natural to me. I just didn't know it had a name. I was glued to the video looking for a breakthrough.
....and in that case you've been cornering incorrectly for years too
Kryten L lol!!
The feeling when you ride into the corner too fast.
💩👎💩👎💩👎💩💩💩💩
You can hear all those family members that were screaming at you for getting a bike saying I told you so
@@lavoroduro Factz! And $1K worth of repairs and front/side fairings later.....😔😁
LMAO! Yes...
Thank you for the video. I have been riding a TW adventure bike custom. with an extended rear tire. In the beginning i used a lot of the rear brake in the wet,dry and in corner. Several times i almost lost control till i practiced and perfected used the front brake. It's amazing. I guess i will improve as i use the tricks you have given us.
The accelerate thru corners in school are to mean a soft accel. It stabilizes the bike.
Yes. Thats what they mean, and it's not accurate logic. You don't need acceleration (or throttle) to achieve stability. The brakes provide stability. Rake and trail affect stability. Tire pressure affects stability.