Morning all! I know I said I'm not into mechanical keyboards with RGB whilst showing an Alienware keyboard! HA! I have that set to white lighting at all times and I bought that cos I liked the white aesthetic, and its silent. I hate clicky keys and rainbow waves is where I was coming from there. Also, I totally understand there'll be a lot of folk who will be triggered by my criticism of this product as they will see the value in what this offers and are happy to pay the high asking price. That's totally fine! I see why you would want those buttons... even though I 100% could prove that manually clicking the on-screen buttons with the mouse would be quicker than pressing them, I get that you'd want a narrow keyboard and a separate numpad, it's just the price point changes everything and as a reviewer I can't ignore that and everything else it's missing. You can buy a narrow keyboard and a separate numpad for around £20 on Amazon. This is likely going to be the only negative coverage of this product so I'm going out on a limb on this one against the grain, but I stand by everything I say here unless 3DConnexion halve the price of this thing, even then, owning it myself, I wouldn't pay more than £50 for this personally.
Thanks Neil for your honesty, I was going to look seriously at buying this but was a little suspect from the photos and what not. we can count on you for honest feedback
That was the most refreshing tech review I have seen in a long time. With the keyboard market going instant at the moment and only geting more insane by the day you really have to do something special. With the insane market customers are only getting more knowledgeable and dont want to just take things a face vasle, especially when your target market is the uber nerds of the CAD world. Having said that I would be very interesting in seeing what the designesd wanted to do, I think there is a great design "on the cutting room floor somewhere"
Been thinking about that... "interesting in seeing what the designers want", there comes a point where you have to come up with something they didn't know they want or needed until you give them it. This felt like a lazy small focus group questionairre, which resulted in a product being built around things which could already be easily accomplished or are just not forward thinking. Its not even re-inventing the wheel, it's like refurbishing an old one.
Totally agree there bud. You're absolutely bang on that this will be their dipping the toe into the market before revision 2 "Pro Ultra" comes out in 12 months time. Wouldn't surprise me to see one with a built in 3D mouse in all honesty at some point - at least then it would be a sensible thing to put and stick in a CAD suite.
Also, it's a business part of a market. Manufacturers think that companies have income amount like billions ("look, they buy software for 10000 per one machine!") and make those prices - 3dConnection, NVidia Tesla, NAS storages... All overpriced.
Thanks for keeping it real! Maya user here but enjoy watching your videos. Never touched AutoCAD and never will given that I enjoy animating. Thought I'd purchase something from them but I'll pass. Had their 3D Controller gizmo couple years ago, found it really cool for about 2 days then returned it.
Ouch! Neil, I was the chap who reached out to you (from 3Dconnexion) all those years ago! I spent 8 very enjoyable years there until moving on a few years ago. Got to admit I felt quite sad after watching the review ;-( Keyboards is definitely a tough market. PS - still using my CadMouse Pro Wireless every day (just for everyday office work and gaming!).
I remember very very very very well John! Thanks! But yea I didn't have to be as... disrespectful(?) here towards 3DConnexion as I probably was but I spent a LONG time on this video and put a tremendous amount of thought into the direction, mulled over every single clip, every marketing piece, and on balance I just couldn't talk myself out of feeling like 3DConnexion are being extortionists here and/or tremendously lazy. Could have done it in a different way but I felt this crossed the line of being a bit cheeky to being outright insulting and a complete rip off, and I have to be a bit selfish now... omlettes and eggs. But yea, I still love what they've done in the past but this was a complete write off!
TBF John... In my opinion 3Dconnexion went down the pan when you left mate. This keyboard doesn't deserve having that logo on it, it looks cheap & tacky and I'm betting it will feel that way as well. You're right, keyboards are a tough market, so you have to stand out and that device doesn't at all.
@@ScottMoyse That's very kind Scott and I hope you are well mate. I've seen some really good activity from them over the last few years. I'm sure the people I still know there are as passionate about what they do as they ever were. They are a close "family" and I wish them all the best.
I do cad design as my daily job and honestly all you need is a good mouse and a numpad. Using Solidworks I've put all my most used commands on on the 12-slot radial menus and put the enter, esc, delete, copy and paste commands on my mouse and a left hand numpad on the keyboard using autohotkey. Now I can design rapidly using only the mouse. without any of the programmable buttons gimmicks. A 3d mouse to control the camera is a nice extra but honestly it really slows you down and its way faster using the mouse to control the camera. what they should come up with is a separate numpad + 3d mouse device, with maybe like 4 programmable buttons and that would be golden. its almost like the people coming up with all these things have no experience in actual workflow
I remember filling in the questionnaire. They asked whether to have function keys replaced with their macro keys. I use function keys all the time so I requested macro keys on top. I would have expected more macro functionality on the keyboard. I think many people (including me) would like the numberpad free instead of having 2 numberpads or being forced with a numberpad on the right. Overall, I share your sentiment. I think this sinks of complacency. Backlit keys was another question. But cannot remember much more
The macro keys on the side would have been a far better placement, at least then you could get to them without needing to arch or stretch over to them, it's just a bad design throughout imo. I wouldn't care but they release a new product once every few years, I'm just staggered at how it can be so half assed. Like I say, the numpad isn't terrible at all, it's just not enough!
Excellent review, thank you for the honest opinion regarding value for the asking price. I like the idea of some extra programmable buttons but the overall design is pretty lacklustre and uninspiring. It looks like they picked up a keyboard of aliexpress and did some extra programming to add macros. Put some style into it at least. Give it a cool look, do something. Pretty lazy on the design side.
Hi, Thanks for the review. I loved it. I totally agree with all of the negative points you made. I’ve been a CAD professional for over four decades. The software of the keyboard integrating with the CAD software (PTC Creo)is my only reason for considering this keyboard. Thanks for the information about the 12 keys being the same as the space pilot. Knowing this, I will not be buying the keyboard. I would like to see more options for CAD professionals. Thanks again. I hope they come out with a less expensive one completely redesigned. It’s funny that a keyboard being sold to designs has so little creative design or inovation.
My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined. No, seriously. I too remember filling in the form for a keyboard, I was stoked. I got really excited, thought about all the functions it could have, how premium it could look and feel and also reached out to some of their engineers/managers to ask, if I can participate in the user testing and/or development. I got no response, but my hopes were still really up there. Today, when the keyboard is finally out, I'm just grounded. Looks terrible and cheap, brings nothing new to the table and personally I think a detached numpad is a nonsense. I am a laptop user, but I have a docking station with a spacemouse and CAD mouse, still using the laptop keyboard though. I was waiting for this keyboard to drop, but I'll look elsewhere now...
I am a full time AutoCAD / Advance Steel freelancer and currently use a Razer Blackwidow Ultimate. The main selling point for me on any keyboard is the abillity to re-programme your CAD macros / aliases / commands to FN+Any Key. 3D Connexion does not seem to have this, so it is a definate no from me.
They still don't have cloud account sync either, so you can spend several hours binding all these keys to every contextual level in every program you use, drawing level, part level, assy level, then if you switch computer you've got to export/import the config manually which is just outrageously prehistoric in 2021. If you want to make a change to any of your bindings you have to redo the export and micro-manage a file to export, sod that. Thats the reason I don't daily drive a 3D mouse enterpise, my settings don't carry through between logins across different devices.
As a hard-core Autodesk Alias user, I only use Apple keyboards and CADMOUSE with my PC. The alt, ctrl, shift are together and compact in the corner. Perfect for tumbling and clutch keys without the extra keys in the way. I do like the keypad on the left but I'd prefer some G keys. Over the years I've switched to hotkeys especially to reduce RH movement and mouse miles. It helps that I've committed to the same keyboard for at least a decade. 3Dconnexions should appreciate your honesty. For me, their cad mouse is dynamite and everywhere I work I end up converting at least 1 user. Too bad this keyboard won't be replacing the Apple on my recommend list.. not your fault.
with this being a non-backlit membrane keyboard with plastic butterfly switches it should have lots of bells and whistles added. Minimum a joystick + horizontal & vertical scroll wheels + macro buttons (with flawless software). I don't understand why the numpad had to be wireless. A light good quality cable (like on gaming mice) may not look as "clean" and "professional", but it would be a lot more functional. Take a gander at at the KinsesisGaming Freestyle Edge Split keyboard. It works like a charm.
If the numpad was wired it would be a nightmare switching it from side to side, depending on what side or where the USB port was the cable would be a pain in the hoop... it wouldnt have been if they'd put a USB pass through on the keyboard or wired it to the keyboard but like I said in the video.... that would have required effort. I get the feeling that this keyboard consists of almost nothing new at all, everything in it is in some way a re-use of what they already had from previous devices including the connectivity protocols.
The old logitech dinovo bluetooth keyboard (circa something like 2003)would take this to the shed and it had an LCD screen on its numberpad to use as a calculator seperate of the pc (or display media info). I would love it if they came back with that one but with lit keys.
I'm good with just their 3D spacemouse, I don't see the need to get something like this unless it had a 3Dspacemouse intergrated in the keyboard itself somehow. That would be cool IMO. 😃
Now that I think, they may have launched a normal keyboard, something well designed to match their other products, in fact if they launch a small keyboard with numpad (similar to the laptop layout) and launch a num pad apart to be part of the "combo" they may complete the concept of "little use of the keyboard" with their whole series of products.
I was excited to open the 'NEW KEYBOARD' email too, once upon a time. I took one look and thought "you've got to be kidding me". That giant delete key hovering in the middle of nowhere was a deal breaker on its own. If I've got the numpad out of the way, my right hand on my mouse and I need to delete, why turn it into an exercise in precision instead of letting me smack it on the far right without having to look before I reach for it? (Why I've finally given up a valuable mouse button to make it a dedicated 'delete' in Autocad, to make removing construction lines/etc. faster.) And that typing feel? It even LOOKS blech. Oww, my eyes!
Just wanted to mention that the coating of a key can affect the precision and comfort of your typing experience if you consider the factor of body oils which end up on the keys over time. It actually is a selling point for more expensive PBT keycaps on mechanical keyboards, but I don't think that applies to this keyboard.
Thanks but still calling nonsense, the keycaps are in a fixed location, the only thing affecting "typing precision" is the person using the keyboard. Anyone who believes differently is a salesmans dream. Comfort is something completely unrelated to precision. The height of the caps, shape, position, switch type, this all can effect how someone interacts with the keyboard and therefore could impact their typing precision, but the lack of a backlight has an infinitely greater impact on precision than the surface finish.
@@Neil3D The position of the key has a greater impact on comfort for sure, but I think comfort actually has an impact on precision. But if your keys are slippery and angled like on my mechanical keyboard it can happen that you develop e certain tension in your hands in order to prevent slipping and this limits your comfort and typing speed/precision. What I actually find important is that you can find a key or noavigate around on the keyboard based on feeling shape of the keys so you don't actually have to look at it all the time. Best examples are the markers at the F and J keys most keyboards have. The shape of a key can actually decide whether you slip off it because you didn't hit it full on in the middle or not.
I get the point youre making in this video, but I don't think its completely fair to knock the seperate wireless number pad. The key difference between their wireless number pad and others on amazon is that is has extra keys and is reprogrammable. To buy a small wireless and reprogrammable keypad is quite expensive, even on amazon. Ive waited for a product exactly like this for quite a while, and I for one was excited to see this come out. Granted, I do wish the keyboard was wireless as well, and had many of the features you mentioned, so Ill back you on that end. But If 3DConnexion ever makes another and better version of this keyboard, I dearly hope they keep the seperate, wireless and repgrammable numberpad as a feature, as it really is useful to me production and convienience wise.
So basically it is fair to knock the keypad then because it's integral to, and part of the keyboard as a product, which is utterly dirge, a complete rip off and as I said in the title... lazy. It should have had all the things I mentioned, backlit etc but it didn't, and simply having some programmable buttons on a numpad (which they didn't even enhance over existing 3DConnexion products) doesn't justify the ludicrous price point of the product. I was also excited for this but crushingly disappointed when I saw it, it's been in it's box in the cupboard since the day I hit upload on this video because there isn't a single compelling reason to use it over any other keyboard I have. If someone is happy to pay treble what this thing is actually worth just to have programmable buttons on a numpad, that's fine and if that person is happy then that's great, but as a product in context to the market it's competing in it's sorely lacking features and way over priced.
I agree this is a stupid product. I do enjoy their spacemouse. I do mechanical design with CATIA. When I bought it I came bundled with the space mouse. It has many flaws (cheap switches, chrome will peel off, etc.), but the fact that the middle click has it's own separate button + scroll wheel was a game changer for my wrist pain. I've tried the vertical ones I can't get used to it. Like you said I wish there was more competition on this segment.
That keyboard is super boring and meh. Backlight is a must these days. I get why the hub only works with their other devices. They would have a propriety communication protocol. With Mechanical keyboards, picking the right switches is very important. I really dislike the really loud clicky keys. Personally I like MX brown switches, especially with the rubber o-rings under the caps. Like you, I'm not a fan of RGB either.
Agreed, mechanical is a definite no on this although you can get "silent" mechanical they're never really silent, it's just the marketing behind this is snake oil salesman. Re the hub, the could have opened it up to logitech devices but sure, I'm not critical on that just saying it isn't really all that useful if you actually have no other 3DConnexion devices, there's nothing you can with that functionality.
The Point of no Competition allways confused me, when looking at the Space Navigator and the other 3D Mice... How is there not a cheap alternative? I'm a Student, so the only decent option for me was to buy a used Space Navigator for 50 Euro on Ebay.
3d connexion was created by merging 2 competing 6-dof controller companies when they were bought out in 2001 (creators of spaceball and spacemouse) that pretty much removed any competition on the market. Their only recent real potential competitor in form of SpaceControl moved out of the market and concentrated on industrial versions of their 6-dof controllers. Unless somebody creates open API capable of replicating 3D connexion capabilities I doubt we will see any competition in this market
@@yatuatuin plus its unbelievably low volume stuff as well, I doubt its worth the investment for China based factories to spin up machines and tooling for something like this given the low volume they'll shift compared to cranking out stuff for the general public.
The market of 3d graphics and engineering is huge. With more than enough capacity for a number of manufacturers. Just look at the hundreds of stupid products that are churned out daily to fill out every possible niche. I bet 3dx has a bouquet of patents, and a vicious law team working on enforcing it.
So I didnt even get to the end but I did enjoy till 12.41...Nice to see a "do better "review.I have a bunch of 3D connection units and while great in certain programs they suck in others..Had to smile on your comment on a "nice" angle for sit stand ergonomics...this unit is awful...If it cannot spin at least 180 degree with a lock at every 2 degrees it is not worth buying for ergonomics.
Thank you, now i can stop the research about this junk. But the 3Dconnexion cad mouse seems very nice. I think i go for *Logitech MX Keys Minimalist* because it got one of the nicest key's i ever pressed in a store and got a very short width. So you can probably have you Wacom tablet next to it.
I was very excited for this product and after seeing it go for sale, and feeling the wonder of what it could possibly have. Thoughts like, an integrated knob on the left side, basically a mini space pilot built in on the left side, or a complete macro command center with a display, buttons that function as joystick-esque type of ability…. Mind you, I almost never publicly promote a company who likes to charge for a product unless I believe there is quality and value to it. Red Wing boots, loaded longboard decks, and dji products are some of the few I believe are worth their premium price. 3DConnexion used to be a part of that list. Used to be. When first looking at the released keyboard on their website, a sincere excitement morphed into a sinking feeling in my stomach… What?..Baffled and confused, I remember thinking… this has to be a joke.. not 3DConnexion.. they wouldn’t do something like this. They couldn’t…. It turned a very loyal customer into a former one. I’m in the same boat as you and see it as not only a cash grab, but more importantly, an insult to its customers and fan base. A simple “f%#* you, I will sell you trash at the price of luxury, and hope you don’t notice or care” scheme thought up to take advantage of their current customer base. Because let’s be honest, who tf out there would jump to their line of products because of this release? What an obnoxious set of decision makers they must have there now. I saw this pop up and thought, please don’t tell me this thing is being promoted..” New subscriber, TH-cam and the world need more people like you. This is not simply a bad product that just gets a thumbs down. This is deception, a crap product being sold as a premium one. I rarely think products need to be ranted in a negative way about, but this one deserves it. How. Disappointing. I want to believe they would try to redeem themselves. In truth, there’s obviously some people that are decision makers there now that clearly don’t have any respect for their customers. The fact they even attempted to sell this crap at all, means I have little to no hope it will change any time soon. RIP
I can tell from here it's not premium! So that's... Looks - doh! 😖 Back lit - doh! 😖 Not too big - doh! 😖 Option to buy without number pad (please!) - doh! Feel of keys / typing action - meh! Extra buttons / features - doh! Great! 👍
They stopped being innovative years ago - 3D mouse did not change in any meaningful way for quite few years. Cad mouse only "innovation" was reintroduction of third mouse button which existed 20 years ago. Pick up their products from 20 years ago and assuming you get drivers working it will be as useful as current ones. All they do now is ad extra buttons and slightly bigger screens while killing your old device with driver update like they did with older devices on MacOS when "Catalina" was released
Interesting. This poor product release joined with the issues surrounding software compatibility issues with Autodesk software (Advance Steel) and others it might take some time to rebuild industry opinions.
Ha, I'll be sure to say the Queens Great British Pound Sterling next time! Or just stick with dollar given that nearly everyone who watches my stuff is over there. But then imagine an American having to remember to say Pounds if their audience was mostly UK based, its our currency and all I've ever known so hard to not say!
Yeah… do you think it’s also that the 3D modeling market and their brand is actually pretty niche compared to gaming? Sales volumes must be a fraction. If they developed a genuinely dedicated product it would be even more expensive. But yeah a real cynical product.
I'll not buy another 3DConnexion device. When I was learning CAD as a student, I stretched the budget to buy one off ebay, and when I tried to get drivers to use it with Windows Vista, they told me to go buy a new one. I've been waiting for years for a decent opensource competitor, and now there's orbion. 3DConnexion can go die in a fire.
You’re REEEAAAACHING into the back of box marketing copy to review a product? Do you do this with all products? Marketing copy review? Reall nauseating how you’re reading the bits that literally nobody reads, the only reason to buy this is to unify it into a 3Dconnexion setup with their single software to share hotkeys and configs and to have less dongles. You’re really calling a single dongle for their own products “gate keeping”??? Because … which company exactly uses one dongle and shares it with others? That’s called Bluetooth and it’s high latency and the reason to use a proprietary signal. Does Logitech let Microsoft products work on their dongles? Does Microsoft? Does Razer? No! So your review is a bunch of straw man arguments that no one is making except you.
I'm on the same boat as you on this one. It’s complacent in more ways than I can count. I'm a longtime user and have a CAD mouse Pro and SpaceMouse Pro and both improve my daily productivity and I love the size/ergonomics. I'm also a voter for a separate/left number pad since I type a lot of dimensions, but I really don't like they're execution of it. I agree that the programmable keys across the top are a step backwards from they're improved ergonomics/reduced hand motion that the space/CAD mouse have always emphasized (and executed). It doesn't look any nicer than my current wireless Logitech keyboard which was solar charging and was less than half the cost. Biggest miss is how large the edge banding is all around. Combined, they’re 40mm wider than my current keyboard when they're right against each other and I have my SpaceMouse and mouse pad right against mine. Also, its 80mm longer than mine and it’s all at the bottom. I was looking at my desk and this would be under my monitors if I maintain enough room for drawing/notebook like I currently have while doing design work. It’s a big miss (for me at least). I’ll stick with my current setup.
My requirements for a keyboard: 1- soft wrist rest - fail 2- backlit keycaps - fail 3- tactile switches- fail chicklets And I love their 3 button mouse and navigator Disappointed 😔
@@Spitzel42 The "chrome" peeled off after a few months of use. The switches failed after a year. But if you are a little handy you can replace with Omron's D2FC-F-7N.
oh, this was a reet laugh mate, you've found your calling now, just make videos ripping into BS marketing. So funny, seriously mate you you should do this for all sorts of tech gear.
Love your reviews. Just want to point out that the buttons can be laser etched. I design and manufacture fixtures and other automotive related tools. We have made gauges to inspect the position of the icons in car buttons. As it turns out, they double shoot inject mold these with white and black and then laser engrave the surface very finely exposing the whit plastic. Its crazy because I just found out about a month ago! Though you'd like to know.
Thanks man, RE the laser etching, I'm still not convinced it was used here as it sounds so expensive that its just not worth it for a none back lit keyboard. I could be wrong but I just dunno like.
The screen to show you what the buttons are mapped to feels like it could be the biggest improvement difference over any of Logitech's gaming keyboards with macro keys or competitors. Those keyboards, many of which are cheaper seem like a much better choice and those keyboards have better switches, the macro keys are located such that they can be accessed quicker with muscle memory rather than looking down and have backlights. It really seems like 3Dconnexion should have been talking/collberating with Logi's gaming division on how to make a decent macro keyboard. This is even more strange that the Logi and 3Dconnexion wireless receivers are not interchangeable. I understand not trying to be compatible with competitors or cheaper generic 2.4Ghz devices but why can't I pair my MX Ergo or M570/M575 with the 3Dconnexion keypad. It makes no sense that even Logitechs own divisions don't talk or work with each other. That said many of those boards are still a step down from my ancient gen 2 G15. I do think Logitech and 3Dconnextion's software is part of their biggest selling points but if you don't even bother to have halfway decent hardware paired with it why bother. I've actually been in the market to replace that old G15 but everything I've looked at either does not have as good of macro/hotkey customization on the software side and its a major step down in features like lacking an on the fly record function or is just massively overpriced.
Yea I think I mentioned that in an earlier comment, if the shortcut keys were on the side then that would be "better" - not sure it would redeem this but it would have at least looked like someone had put some thought into some area of the design.
Dude, there’s honest, and then there’s getting your jollies from laughing at the work of others. I don’t think mean is funny. It needs improvement, but so does your vibe.
where you say "those 12 buttons are what 3dconnexion is" no sorry literally hundreds of other keyboards and mice can do infinitely more things than 3dconnexion. they are literallly only good for their 3d mouse and that's it.
So darn right... the ergo keyboard more useful!! Separate 10 key to left with prog-hotkeys way more useful and you can find one with minimal 10 key or multiple option keys attached! And its "plain jane"... great review!! Thank you!!!
Brilliant review mate, don't know how I got to viewing such a "professional" product but your video was quick to put be back on track choosing between products for mere mortals
This is actually the keyboard I've wanted for awhile. Do you know how long I've looked for a num pad that was detachable and I hadn't been able to find what you were able to show. Its been awhile since I looked so maybe I should search else where. I use a $80 Logitech keyboard that work gave me 6 years ago and Ive chosen this over mechanical keyboards that work offered me. I totally agree that the keyboard offers many redundant features and should offer many other advanced options. Or another option that better pairs with the other products they offer.
I was wrong to use the term "detachable" for the numpad because that implies its also "attachable" which it isn't, its just a separate thing that sits wherever you put it
“You wouldn’t know it’s a 100lb keyboard” Really? Have you ever lifted a keyboard that weighed 100lbs? Believe me, you would know it. That is extremely heavy for a keyboard!
Morning all! I know I said I'm not into mechanical keyboards with RGB whilst showing an Alienware keyboard! HA! I have that set to white lighting at all times and I bought that cos I liked the white aesthetic, and its silent. I hate clicky keys and rainbow waves is where I was coming from there.
Also, I totally understand there'll be a lot of folk who will be triggered by my criticism of this product as they will see the value in what this offers and are happy to pay the high asking price. That's totally fine! I see why you would want those buttons... even though I 100% could prove that manually clicking the on-screen buttons with the mouse would be quicker than pressing them, I get that you'd want a narrow keyboard and a separate numpad, it's just the price point changes everything and as a reviewer I can't ignore that and everything else it's missing. You can buy a narrow keyboard and a separate numpad for around £20 on Amazon. This is likely going to be the only negative coverage of this product so I'm going out on a limb on this one against the grain, but I stand by everything I say here unless 3DConnexion halve the price of this thing, even then, owning it myself, I wouldn't pay more than £50 for this personally.
Please add an update comment. What happened? Any changes comming?
Thanks for bringing to light for what it really is. I wish I could buy you a pint or two for saving me a whole boatload of cheers.
Thanks Neil for your honesty, I was going to look seriously at buying this but was a little suspect from the photos and what not. we can count on you for honest feedback
That was the most refreshing tech review I have seen in a long time. With the keyboard market going instant at the moment and only geting more insane by the day you really have to do something special. With the insane market customers are only getting more knowledgeable and dont want to just take things a face vasle, especially when your target market is the uber nerds of the CAD world. Having said that I would be very interesting in seeing what the designesd wanted to do, I think there is a great design "on the cutting room floor somewhere"
Been thinking about that... "interesting in seeing what the designers want", there comes a point where you have to come up with something they didn't know they want or needed until you give them it. This felt like a lazy small focus group questionairre, which resulted in a product being built around things which could already be easily accomplished or are just not forward thinking. Its not even re-inventing the wheel, it's like refurbishing an old one.
Totally agree there bud. You're absolutely bang on that this will be their dipping the toe into the market before revision 2 "Pro Ultra" comes out in 12 months time. Wouldn't surprise me to see one with a built in 3D mouse in all honesty at some point - at least then it would be a sensible thing to put and stick in a CAD suite.
Also, it's a business part of a market. Manufacturers think that companies have income amount like billions ("look, they buy software for 10000 per one machine!") and make those prices - 3dConnection, NVidia Tesla, NAS storages... All overpriced.
Thanks for keeping it real! Maya user here but enjoy watching your videos. Never touched AutoCAD and never will given that I enjoy animating. Thought I'd purchase something from them but I'll pass. Had their 3D Controller gizmo couple years ago, found it really cool for about 2 days then returned it.
Ouch! Neil, I was the chap who reached out to you (from 3Dconnexion) all those years ago! I spent 8 very enjoyable years there until moving on a few years ago. Got to admit I felt quite sad after watching the review ;-( Keyboards is definitely a tough market. PS - still using my CadMouse Pro Wireless every day (just for everyday office work and gaming!).
I remember very very very very well John! Thanks! But yea I didn't have to be as... disrespectful(?) here towards 3DConnexion as I probably was but I spent a LONG time on this video and put a tremendous amount of thought into the direction, mulled over every single clip, every marketing piece, and on balance I just couldn't talk myself out of feeling like 3DConnexion are being extortionists here and/or tremendously lazy. Could have done it in a different way but I felt this crossed the line of being a bit cheeky to being outright insulting and a complete rip off, and I have to be a bit selfish now... omlettes and eggs. But yea, I still love what they've done in the past but this was a complete write off!
Still rocking my original wired CadMouse, which I got soon after its release.
TBF John... In my opinion 3Dconnexion went down the pan when you left mate. This keyboard doesn't deserve having that logo on it, it looks cheap & tacky and I'm betting it will feel that way as well. You're right, keyboards are a tough market, so you have to stand out and that device doesn't at all.
@@ScottMoyse That's very kind Scott and I hope you are well mate. I've seen some really good activity from them over the last few years. I'm sure the people I still know there are as passionate about what they do as they ever were. They are a close "family" and I wish them all the best.
I do cad design as my daily job and honestly all you need is a good mouse and a numpad. Using Solidworks I've put all my most used commands on on the 12-slot radial menus and put the enter, esc, delete, copy and paste commands on my mouse and a left hand numpad on the keyboard using autohotkey. Now I can design rapidly using only the mouse. without any of the programmable buttons gimmicks. A 3d mouse to control the camera is a nice extra but honestly it really slows you down and its way faster using the mouse to control the camera.
what they should come up with is a separate numpad + 3d mouse device, with maybe like 4 programmable buttons and that would be golden. its almost like the people coming up with all these things have no experience in actual workflow
I remember filling in the questionnaire. They asked whether to have function keys replaced with their macro keys. I use function keys all the time so I requested macro keys on top. I would have expected more macro functionality on the keyboard. I think many people (including me) would like the numberpad free instead of having 2 numberpads or being forced with a numberpad on the right. Overall, I share your sentiment. I think this sinks of complacency.
Backlit keys was another question. But cannot remember much more
The macro keys on the side would have been a far better placement, at least then you could get to them without needing to arch or stretch over to them, it's just a bad design throughout imo. I wouldn't care but they release a new product once every few years, I'm just staggered at how it can be so half assed. Like I say, the numpad isn't terrible at all, it's just not enough!
Excellent review, thank you for the honest opinion regarding value for the asking price. I like the idea of some extra programmable buttons but the overall design is pretty lacklustre and uninspiring. It looks like they picked up a keyboard of aliexpress and did some extra programming to add macros. Put some style into it at least. Give it a cool look, do something. Pretty lazy on the design side.
Hi, Thanks for the review. I loved it. I totally agree with all of the negative points you made. I’ve been a CAD professional for over four decades. The software of the keyboard integrating with the CAD software (PTC Creo)is my only reason for considering this keyboard. Thanks for the information about the 12 keys being the same as the space pilot. Knowing this, I will not be buying the keyboard. I would like to see more options for CAD professionals. Thanks again. I hope they come out with a less expensive one completely redesigned. It’s funny that a keyboard being sold to designs has so little creative design or inovation.
I am an engineer and never saw a detachable used until I walked into are accounting department they all had them!!!!
My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined. No, seriously. I too remember filling in the form for a keyboard, I was stoked. I got really excited, thought about all the functions it could have, how premium it could look and feel and also reached out to some of their engineers/managers to ask, if I can participate in the user testing and/or development. I got no response, but my hopes were still really up there. Today, when the keyboard is finally out, I'm just grounded. Looks terrible and cheap, brings nothing new to the table and personally I think a detached numpad is a nonsense. I am a laptop user, but I have a docking station with a spacemouse and CAD mouse, still using the laptop keyboard though. I was waiting for this keyboard to drop, but I'll look elsewhere now...
I am a full time AutoCAD / Advance Steel freelancer and currently use a Razer Blackwidow Ultimate.
The main selling point for me on any keyboard is the abillity to re-programme your CAD macros / aliases / commands to FN+Any Key.
3D Connexion does not seem to have this, so it is a definate no from me.
They still don't have cloud account sync either, so you can spend several hours binding all these keys to every contextual level in every program you use, drawing level, part level, assy level, then if you switch computer you've got to export/import the config manually which is just outrageously prehistoric in 2021. If you want to make a change to any of your bindings you have to redo the export and micro-manage a file to export, sod that. Thats the reason I don't daily drive a 3D mouse enterpise, my settings don't carry through between logins across different devices.
As a hard-core Autodesk Alias user, I only use Apple keyboards and CADMOUSE with my PC. The alt, ctrl, shift are together and compact in the corner. Perfect for tumbling and clutch keys without the extra keys in the way. I do like the keypad on the left but I'd prefer some G keys. Over the years I've switched to hotkeys especially to reduce RH movement and mouse miles. It helps that I've committed to the same keyboard for at least a decade. 3Dconnexions should appreciate your honesty. For me, their cad mouse is dynamite and everywhere I work I end up converting at least 1 user. Too bad this keyboard won't be replacing the Apple on my recommend list.. not your fault.
with this being a non-backlit membrane keyboard with plastic butterfly switches it should have lots of bells and whistles added. Minimum a joystick + horizontal & vertical scroll wheels + macro buttons (with flawless software).
I don't understand why the numpad had to be wireless. A light good quality cable (like on gaming mice) may not look as "clean" and "professional", but it would be a lot more functional. Take a gander at at the KinsesisGaming Freestyle Edge Split keyboard. It works like a charm.
If the numpad was wired it would be a nightmare switching it from side to side, depending on what side or where the USB port was the cable would be a pain in the hoop... it wouldnt have been if they'd put a USB pass through on the keyboard or wired it to the keyboard but like I said in the video.... that would have required effort. I get the feeling that this keyboard consists of almost nothing new at all, everything in it is in some way a re-use of what they already had from previous devices including the connectivity protocols.
@@Neil3D I see. I missed the part when you mentioned that it's probably all "reused" parts. That makes sense.
The amount of bullsh*t calling in this clip made me subscribe. Well done, man !
Thanks for subbing! Always good to know who's watching!
The old logitech dinovo bluetooth keyboard (circa something like 2003)would take this to the shed and it had an LCD screen on its numberpad to use as a calculator seperate of the pc (or display media info). I would love it if they came back with that one but with lit keys.
Thanks for the review - appreciate the practical and honest review.
good luck beating the logitech mx keys/ mx master 3 / spacemouse wireless combo
I've got the MX Master 3 Mouse now and aye, the battery isn't as good but I've been using that for the past few months
I'm good with just their 3D spacemouse, I don't see the need to get something like this unless it had a 3Dspacemouse intergrated in the keyboard itself somehow. That would be cool IMO. 😃
Now that I think, they may have launched a normal keyboard, something well designed to match their other products, in fact if they launch a small keyboard with numpad (similar to the laptop layout) and launch a num pad apart to be part of the "combo" they may complete the concept of "little use of the keyboard" with their whole series of products.
I was excited to open the 'NEW KEYBOARD' email too, once upon a time. I took one look and thought "you've got to be kidding me".
That giant delete key hovering in the middle of nowhere was a deal breaker on its own. If I've got the numpad out of the way, my right hand on my mouse and I need to delete, why turn it into an exercise in precision instead of letting me smack it on the far right without having to look before I reach for it?
(Why I've finally given up a valuable mouse button to make it a dedicated 'delete' in Autocad, to make removing construction lines/etc. faster.)
And that typing feel? It even LOOKS blech. Oww, my eyes!
Any bets that the people who wrote the marketing are the type who would take 15 minutes to tell you they are going to the store?
Just wanted to mention that the coating of a key can affect the precision and comfort of your typing experience if you consider the factor of body oils which end up on the keys over time. It actually is a selling point for more expensive PBT keycaps on mechanical keyboards, but I don't think that applies to this keyboard.
Thanks but still calling nonsense, the keycaps are in a fixed location, the only thing affecting "typing precision" is the person using the keyboard. Anyone who believes differently is a salesmans dream. Comfort is something completely unrelated to precision. The height of the caps, shape, position, switch type, this all can effect how someone interacts with the keyboard and therefore could impact their typing precision, but the lack of a backlight has an infinitely greater impact on precision than the surface finish.
@@Neil3D The position of the key has a greater impact on comfort for sure, but I think comfort actually has an impact on precision. But if your keys are slippery and angled like on my mechanical keyboard it can happen that you develop e certain tension in your hands in order to prevent slipping and this limits your comfort and typing speed/precision.
What I actually find important is that you can find a key or noavigate around on the keyboard based on feeling shape of the keys so you don't actually have to look at it all the time. Best examples are the markers at the F and J keys most keyboards have. The shape of a key can actually decide whether you slip off it because you didn't hit it full on in the middle or not.
Absolute realistic review! 100% agree with every word said.
I get the point youre making in this video, but I don't think its completely fair to knock the seperate wireless number pad. The key difference between their wireless number pad and others on amazon is that is has extra keys and is reprogrammable. To buy a small wireless and reprogrammable keypad is quite expensive, even on amazon. Ive waited for a product exactly like this for quite a while, and I for one was excited to see this come out. Granted, I do wish the keyboard was wireless as well, and had many of the features you mentioned, so Ill back you on that end. But If 3DConnexion ever makes another and better version of this keyboard, I dearly hope they keep the seperate, wireless and repgrammable numberpad as a feature, as it really is useful to me production and convienience wise.
So basically it is fair to knock the keypad then because it's integral to, and part of the keyboard as a product, which is utterly dirge, a complete rip off and as I said in the title... lazy. It should have had all the things I mentioned, backlit etc but it didn't, and simply having some programmable buttons on a numpad (which they didn't even enhance over existing 3DConnexion products) doesn't justify the ludicrous price point of the product. I was also excited for this but crushingly disappointed when I saw it, it's been in it's box in the cupboard since the day I hit upload on this video because there isn't a single compelling reason to use it over any other keyboard I have. If someone is happy to pay treble what this thing is actually worth just to have programmable buttons on a numpad, that's fine and if that person is happy then that's great, but as a product in context to the market it's competing in it's sorely lacking features and way over priced.
I agree this is a stupid product. I do enjoy their spacemouse. I do mechanical design with CATIA. When I bought it I came bundled with the space mouse. It has many flaws (cheap switches, chrome will peel off, etc.), but the fact that the middle click has it's own separate button + scroll wheel was a game changer for my wrist pain. I've tried the vertical ones I can't get used to it. Like you said I wish there was more competition on this segment.
That keyboard is super boring and meh. Backlight is a must these days.
I get why the hub only works with their other devices. They would have a propriety communication protocol.
With Mechanical keyboards, picking the right switches is very important.
I really dislike the really loud clicky keys.
Personally I like MX brown switches, especially with the rubber o-rings under the caps.
Like you, I'm not a fan of RGB either.
Agreed, mechanical is a definite no on this although you can get "silent" mechanical they're never really silent, it's just the marketing behind this is snake oil salesman. Re the hub, the could have opened it up to logitech devices but sure, I'm not critical on that just saying it isn't really all that useful if you actually have no other 3DConnexion devices, there's nothing you can with that functionality.
@@Neil3D linear switches tend the be fairly quiet
I tried a num pad on my left. Tbh I couldn't get used to it.
The Point of no Competition allways confused me, when looking at the Space Navigator and the other 3D Mice... How is there not a cheap alternative?
I'm a Student, so the only decent option for me was to buy a used Space Navigator for 50 Euro on Ebay.
3d connexion was created by merging 2 competing 6-dof controller companies when they were bought out in 2001 (creators of spaceball and spacemouse) that pretty much removed any competition on the market. Their only recent real potential competitor in form of SpaceControl moved out of the market and concentrated on industrial versions of their 6-dof controllers. Unless somebody creates open API capable of replicating 3D connexion capabilities I doubt we will see any competition in this market
@@yatuatuin plus its unbelievably low volume stuff as well, I doubt its worth the investment for China based factories to spin up machines and tooling for something like this given the low volume they'll shift compared to cranking out stuff for the general public.
The market of 3d graphics and engineering is huge. With more than enough capacity for a number of manufacturers. Just look at the hundreds of stupid products that are churned out daily to fill out every possible niche.
I bet 3dx has a bouquet of patents, and a vicious law team working on enforcing it.
So I didnt even get to the end but I did enjoy till 12.41...Nice to see a "do better "review.I have a bunch of 3D connection units and while great in certain programs they suck in others..Had to smile on your comment on a "nice" angle for sit stand ergonomics...this unit is awful...If it cannot spin at least 180 degree with a lock at every 2 degrees it is not worth buying for ergonomics.
Savage.... I loved it
Thank you, now i can stop the research about this junk.
But the 3Dconnexion cad mouse seems very nice.
I think i go for *Logitech MX Keys Minimalist* because it got one of the nicest key's i ever pressed in a store and got a very short width. So you can probably have you Wacom tablet next to it.
Wish they just made a really professional high quality CAD keyboard and charge me 250 dollars for that.
Covid time warp of three weeks eh? 14.12-14.14
No light under keys ? I am architect working evenings... I will prefer with light. And in fact price is too high.. :) True. Not worth.
I was very excited for this product and after seeing it go for sale, and feeling the wonder of what it could possibly have. Thoughts like, an integrated knob on the left side, basically a mini space pilot built in on the left side, or a complete macro command center with a display, buttons that function as joystick-esque type of ability….
Mind you, I almost never publicly promote a company who likes to charge for a product unless I believe there is quality and value to it. Red Wing boots, loaded longboard decks, and dji products are some of the few I believe are worth their premium price. 3DConnexion used to be a part of that list. Used to be.
When first looking at the released keyboard on their website, a sincere excitement morphed into a sinking feeling in my stomach… What?..Baffled and confused, I remember thinking… this has to be a joke.. not 3DConnexion.. they wouldn’t do something like this. They couldn’t….
It turned a very loyal customer into a former one. I’m in the same boat as you and see it as not only a cash grab, but more importantly, an insult to its customers and fan base.
A simple “f%#* you, I will sell you trash at the price of luxury, and hope you don’t notice or care” scheme thought up to take advantage of their current customer base. Because let’s be honest, who tf out there would jump to their line of products because of this release? What an obnoxious set of decision makers they must have there now.
I saw this pop up and thought, please don’t tell me this thing is being promoted..”
New subscriber, TH-cam and the world need more people like you. This is not simply a bad product that just gets a thumbs down. This is deception, a crap product being sold as a premium one. I rarely think products need to be ranted in a negative way about, but this one deserves it. How. Disappointing.
I want to believe they would try to redeem themselves. In truth, there’s obviously some people that are decision makers there now that clearly don’t have any respect for their customers. The fact they even attempted to sell this crap at all, means I have little to no hope it will change any time soon. RIP
I can tell from here it's not premium!
So that's...
Looks - doh! 😖
Back lit - doh! 😖
Not too big - doh! 😖
Option to buy without number pad (please!) - doh!
Feel of keys / typing action - meh!
Extra buttons / features - doh!
Great! 👍
So many lost opportunities from such an innovative company. Kinda sad
They stopped being innovative years ago - 3D mouse did not change in any meaningful way for quite few years. Cad mouse only "innovation" was reintroduction of third mouse button which existed 20 years ago. Pick up their products from 20 years ago and assuming you get drivers working it will be as useful as current ones. All they do now is ad extra buttons and slightly bigger screens while killing your old device with driver update like they did with older devices on MacOS when "Catalina" was released
Interesting. This poor product release joined with the issues surrounding software compatibility issues with Autodesk software (Advance Steel) and others it might take some time to rebuild industry opinions.
He kept saying "100 pound keyboard" I was thinking, was it really that heavy?
Ha, I'll be sure to say the Queens Great British Pound Sterling next time! Or just stick with dollar given that nearly everyone who watches my stuff is over there. But then imagine an American having to remember to say Pounds if their audience was mostly UK based, its our currency and all I've ever known so hard to not say!
Yeah… do you think it’s also that the 3D modeling market and their brand is actually pretty niche compared to gaming? Sales volumes must be a fraction.
If they developed a genuinely dedicated product it would be even more expensive.
But yeah a real cynical product.
I can think of some other things to glide over this piece of s***. Well done for ripping through the BS.
I'll not buy another 3DConnexion device. When I was learning CAD as a student, I stretched the budget to buy one off ebay, and when I tried to get drivers to use it with Windows Vista, they told me to go buy a new one. I've been waiting for years for a decent opensource competitor, and now there's orbion. 3DConnexion can go die in a fire.
3D Connexion rleasing a keyboard without RGB is about as usable as the G in lasagne.
Lmao loved this
That thing is so bland looking. It looks like the stock keyboard you'd get with a PC like 10-12 years ago.
Ignorant review. Those programmable buttons are the only reason I would buy it. And I wish there was a side pad with only programmable buttons.
You’re REEEAAAACHING into the back of box marketing copy to review a product? Do you do this with all products? Marketing copy review? Reall nauseating how you’re reading the bits that literally nobody reads, the only reason to buy this is to unify it into a 3Dconnexion setup with their single software to share hotkeys and configs and to have less dongles. You’re really calling a single dongle for their own products “gate keeping”??? Because … which company exactly uses one dongle and shares it with others? That’s called Bluetooth and it’s high latency and the reason to use a proprietary signal. Does Logitech let Microsoft products work on their dongles? Does Microsoft? Does Razer? No! So your review is a bunch of straw man arguments that no one is making except you.
this marketing garbage piece of junk should be $40 USD tops.
honest
I'm on the same boat as you on this one. It’s complacent in more ways than I can count. I'm a longtime user and have a CAD mouse Pro and SpaceMouse Pro and both improve my daily productivity and I love the size/ergonomics. I'm also a voter for a separate/left number pad since I type a lot of dimensions, but I really don't like they're execution of it. I agree that the programmable keys across the top are a step backwards from they're improved ergonomics/reduced hand motion that the space/CAD mouse have always emphasized (and executed).
It doesn't look any nicer than my current wireless Logitech keyboard which was solar charging and was less than half the cost. Biggest miss is how large the edge banding is all around. Combined, they’re 40mm wider than my current keyboard when they're right against each other and I have my SpaceMouse and mouse pad right against mine. Also, its 80mm longer than mine and it’s all at the bottom. I was looking at my desk and this would be under my monitors if I maintain enough room for drawing/notebook like I currently have while doing design work. It’s a big miss (for me at least). I’ll stick with my current setup.
My requirements for a keyboard:
1- soft wrist rest - fail
2- backlit keycaps - fail
3- tactile switches- fail chicklets
And I love their 3 button mouse and navigator
Disappointed 😔
You can love them, but now you know that they should cost much cheaper...
@@Spitzel42 The "chrome" peeled off after a few months of use. The switches failed after a year. But if you are a little handy you can replace with Omron's D2FC-F-7N.
I appreciate your honesty. Keep up the good work!
Very nice, I have the super cad mouse, which great, running a Corsair keyboard now.
oh, this was a reet laugh mate, you've found your calling now, just make videos ripping into BS marketing. So funny, seriously mate you you should do this for all sorts of tech gear.
That would be an expensive channel to run!! Literally no company would send me anything but hey, you might be onto something there!
No USB-through connection WITH DETACHED NUM PAD? that's next level of insanity.
Love your reviews. Just want to point out that the buttons can be laser etched. I design and manufacture fixtures and other automotive related tools. We have made gauges to inspect the position of the icons in car buttons. As it turns out, they double shoot inject mold these with white and black and then laser engrave the surface very finely exposing the whit plastic. Its crazy because I just found out about a month ago! Though you'd like to know.
Thanks man, RE the laser etching, I'm still not convinced it was used here as it sounds so expensive that its just not worth it for a none back lit keyboard. I could be wrong but I just dunno like.
The screen to show you what the buttons are mapped to feels like it could be the biggest improvement difference over any of Logitech's gaming keyboards with macro keys or competitors. Those keyboards, many of which are cheaper seem like a much better choice and those keyboards have better switches, the macro keys are located such that they can be accessed quicker with muscle memory rather than looking down and have backlights.
It really seems like 3Dconnexion should have been talking/collberating with Logi's gaming division on how to make a decent macro keyboard. This is even more strange that the Logi and 3Dconnexion wireless receivers are not interchangeable. I understand not trying to be compatible with competitors or cheaper generic 2.4Ghz devices but why can't I pair my MX Ergo or M570/M575 with the 3Dconnexion keypad. It makes no sense that even Logitechs own divisions don't talk or work with each other.
That said many of those boards are still a step down from my ancient gen 2 G15. I do think Logitech and 3Dconnextion's software is part of their biggest selling points but if you don't even bother to have halfway decent hardware paired with it why bother.
I've actually been in the market to replace that old G15 but everything I've looked at either does not have as good of macro/hotkey customization on the software side and its a major step down in features like lacking an on the fly record function or is just massively overpriced.
Yea I think I mentioned that in an earlier comment, if the shortcut keys were on the side then that would be "better" - not sure it would redeem this but it would have at least looked like someone had put some thought into some area of the design.
Dude, there’s honest, and then there’s getting your jollies from laughing at the work of others. I don’t think mean is funny. It needs improvement, but so does your vibe.
What work?
where you say "those 12 buttons are what 3dconnexion is" no sorry literally hundreds of other keyboards and mice can do infinitely more things than 3dconnexion. they are literallly only good for their 3d mouse and that's it.
and even those are way, way overpriced. i think they own the patent and are the only ones allowed to produce them. i wish there was some competition
Today I bought the fibroid for $65.00 on their website
Today I bought for $65.00 on their website
Feel like an April fools
an out of season one if any
So darn right... the ergo keyboard more useful!! Separate 10 key to left with prog-hotkeys way more useful and you can find one with minimal 10 key or multiple option keys attached! And its "plain jane"... great review!! Thank you!!!
Brilliant review mate, don't know how I got to viewing such a "professional" product but your video was quick to put be back on track choosing between products for mere mortals
Yeah, you'd be better off with dedicated CAD tools or something like the Keychron Q0 that is fully programmable.
can we talk sh_t about the 3D mouse scroll wheel... i spend more time trying to find where i was if i use it haha
3DConnexion is terrible about continued driver support for their products.
well im going to run out and get a new keyboard, great review!
This is actually the keyboard I've wanted for awhile. Do you know how long I've looked for a num pad that was detachable and I hadn't been able to find what you were able to show. Its been awhile since I looked so maybe I should search else where. I use a $80 Logitech keyboard that work gave me 6 years ago and Ive chosen this over mechanical keyboards that work offered me.
I totally agree that the keyboard offers many redundant features and should offer many other advanced options. Or another option that better pairs with the other products they offer.
I was wrong to use the term "detachable" for the numpad because that implies its also "attachable" which it isn't, its just a separate thing that sits wherever you put it
“You wouldn’t know it’s a 100lb keyboard” Really? Have you ever lifted a keyboard that weighed 100lbs? Believe me, you would know it. That is extremely heavy for a keyboard!