These bans were definitely a move in the right direction. My working theory is they didn't want to do a large ban before the next horizons set drops because the last time they did that (Uro, FotD, Mystic Sanctuary, trickery, SSG) MH2 felt blatently more powerful than the rest of Modern on average. I think they finally were forced to do something when the community started to really shift its view on modern. My prediction is once MH3 comes out and the current usual suspects push their way back on top they'll finally be banned to let the new cards shine without them domimating on release.
@redfacedmenace That's the hard question I've spent way too much time on trying to find an answer to. I could see a lot of cards go but I don't know Wizards' intentions with the format. Power creep is natural but the supplemental products creep at a much faster rate than standard sets. If their intentions are to ride the wave and go full Yugioh and just go on forever then they'll probably ban very few cards and just let the new cards push the old ones out. If they don't intend to creep heavily with every supplemental set I could see the need for a more broad rebalancing of the format. The current pain points of the format are probably Violent Outburst, T3feri, Omnath, One Ring, Bowmasters, W&6, Elementals(To be honest I think Solitude and Endurance are healthy for the format but there isn't an overwhelming consensus on which should stay or go), Leyline binding, mishra's bauble, Urza's Saga, and then something in Titan and Yawg if they remain at the top. They don't want to ban strategies outright if they can help it so I think weakening the glue cards is the safest bet. People won't enjoy when their deck gets weaker and they'll point fingers at another deck that gets hit but stays closer to the top and be frustrated but it's realistically the only way Wizards can continue to make new supplimental cards without raising the ceiling until we're all playing budget Vintage 😅
@@Honest_Elk I'm not necessarily in favor of radical bans, but I do think the format would be better without Violent Outburst, T3feri, Omnath, W&6, and (maybe) Grief. Mishra's Bauble isn't at bannable levels of playable for the format, but that card is adding nothing good to Modern. I wouldn't mind if it got banned, but it doesn't seem necessary at the moment. One Ring I could take or leave. It's probably doing unfair things, but it's not prevalent enough to warrant action IMO. I do, however, think Solitude, Endurance, Leyline Binding, and Urza's Saga are all actively good for the format. Saga being a key piece in artifact strategies, Lantern Control/8Rack, etc. is a net positive, and honestly I think Amulet is fine in the format even with Saga. Binding is a 1 mana O-Ring with flash. It's good, but why are we banning ORings? Solitude and Endurance are important safety valves and IMO well-designed cards, though I hate that Solitude works so well with flicker effects. Orcish Bowmasters is not a card I've had a lot of experience playing against since it's not great against Amulet, and I have no real concept of how it affects the format, so I don't feel like I can evaluate it properly. If it has the same "Wrenn/Lava Dart/Fury" punishing effect on x/1 creatures, then I would be happy to have it gone.
Saved? I don't know. The ekg did beep though. The format still needs more bans. Grief still needs to go. W&6 needs to go. The Ring needs to go. But most importantly we need a card that addresses triggered abilities in the same way Pithing Needle addresses activated abilities. Almost all of the cards players have complained about (or have been banned) have had busted triggered abilities. Lets go down some of the list... - Fury, Grief, (all of the elementals) - Cascade spells, specifically Violent Outburst - Ragavan - Bowmasters - ToR - Amulet - Beans - Leyline Binding - Scales - Chalice The list goes on and on and on. Should these be in a ban discussion? No. Most of them are fine, but a way to mitigate the value they bring is something WotC needs to address if they're going to continue to lean on triggerd abilities as hard as they do.
Hey I just gotta get that clickable youtube title :P Truth is I'm not super happy with Modern at the moment. It feels super stale and the only deck I've like for years now is Amulet. I used to play so many decks. UW/Esper Control, Twin, Abzan Evolution, etc. I even own Murktide and Hammer in paper, I just don't care for them. I only haven't sold them because of laziness at this point. And I'm tired of many many cards, like you mentioned. Wrenn, Outburst, the pitch elementals as a whole, Ring (a little bit, I think it's fine-ish), 4c Omnath, Ragavan, just every single deck is really annoying. It's all of Modern. But at least we got something with the B&R, I do genuinely believe that the update is wonderful news for the format. It's going to return to back the way it was before Scam won the PT and beans got printed. But that's where the problem lies -- I didn't love the format then either... xD Edit: Sorry, I have to throw in a stupid medical EKG joke so: Seem like Modern could be experiencing QT prolongation -- bad news, but at least it's alive!
Agreed! Thanks for weighing in!
Your username threw me off, I'm used to seeing Hitpoint, and I recognized the H. Nice new tag! :)
These bans were definitely a move in the right direction. My working theory is they didn't want to do a large ban before the next horizons set drops because the last time they did that (Uro, FotD, Mystic Sanctuary, trickery, SSG) MH2 felt blatently more powerful than the rest of Modern on average. I think they finally were forced to do something when the community started to really shift its view on modern. My prediction is once MH3 comes out and the current usual suspects push their way back on top they'll finally be banned to let the new cards shine without them domimating on release.
What cards would you expect to see banned near the release of MH3?
@redfacedmenace That's the hard question I've spent way too much time on trying to find an answer to. I could see a lot of cards go but I don't know Wizards' intentions with the format. Power creep is natural but the supplemental products creep at a much faster rate than standard sets. If their intentions are to ride the wave and go full Yugioh and just go on forever then they'll probably ban very few cards and just let the new cards push the old ones out. If they don't intend to creep heavily with every supplemental set I could see the need for a more broad rebalancing of the format. The current pain points of the format are probably Violent Outburst, T3feri, Omnath, One Ring, Bowmasters, W&6, Elementals(To be honest I think Solitude and Endurance are healthy for the format but there isn't an overwhelming consensus on which should stay or go), Leyline binding, mishra's bauble, Urza's Saga, and then something in Titan and Yawg if they remain at the top. They don't want to ban strategies outright if they can help it so I think weakening the glue cards is the safest bet. People won't enjoy when their deck gets weaker and they'll point fingers at another deck that gets hit but stays closer to the top and be frustrated but it's realistically the only way Wizards can continue to make new supplimental cards without raising the ceiling until we're all playing budget Vintage 😅
@@Honest_Elk I'm not necessarily in favor of radical bans, but I do think the format would be better without Violent Outburst, T3feri, Omnath, W&6, and (maybe) Grief. Mishra's Bauble isn't at bannable levels of playable for the format, but that card is adding nothing good to Modern. I wouldn't mind if it got banned, but it doesn't seem necessary at the moment.
One Ring I could take or leave. It's probably doing unfair things, but it's not prevalent enough to warrant action IMO.
I do, however, think Solitude, Endurance, Leyline Binding, and Urza's Saga are all actively good for the format. Saga being a key piece in artifact strategies, Lantern Control/8Rack, etc. is a net positive, and honestly I think Amulet is fine in the format even with Saga. Binding is a 1 mana O-Ring with flash. It's good, but why are we banning ORings? Solitude and Endurance are important safety valves and IMO well-designed cards, though I hate that Solitude works so well with flicker effects.
Orcish Bowmasters is not a card I've had a lot of experience playing against since it's not great against Amulet, and I have no real concept of how it affects the format, so I don't feel like I can evaluate it properly. If it has the same "Wrenn/Lava Dart/Fury" punishing effect on x/1 creatures, then I would be happy to have it gone.
Saved? I don't know. The ekg did beep though. The format still needs more bans. Grief still needs to go. W&6 needs to go. The Ring needs to go.
But most importantly we need a card that addresses triggered abilities in the same way Pithing Needle addresses activated abilities. Almost all of the cards players have complained about (or have been banned) have had busted triggered abilities. Lets go down some of the list...
- Fury, Grief, (all of the elementals)
- Cascade spells, specifically Violent Outburst
- Ragavan
- Bowmasters
- ToR
- Amulet
- Beans
- Leyline Binding
- Scales
- Chalice
The list goes on and on and on. Should these be in a ban discussion? No. Most of them are fine, but a way to mitigate the value they bring is something WotC needs to address if they're going to continue to lean on triggerd abilities as hard as they do.
Hey I just gotta get that clickable youtube title :P
Truth is I'm not super happy with Modern at the moment. It feels super stale and the only deck I've like for years now is Amulet. I used to play so many decks. UW/Esper Control, Twin, Abzan Evolution, etc. I even own Murktide and Hammer in paper, I just don't care for them. I only haven't sold them because of laziness at this point.
And I'm tired of many many cards, like you mentioned. Wrenn, Outburst, the pitch elementals as a whole, Ring (a little bit, I think it's fine-ish), 4c Omnath, Ragavan, just every single deck is really annoying. It's all of Modern. But at least we got something with the B&R, I do genuinely believe that the update is wonderful news for the format. It's going to return to back the way it was before Scam won the PT and beans got printed. But that's where the problem lies -- I didn't love the format then either... xD
Edit: Sorry, I have to throw in a stupid medical EKG joke so: Seem like Modern could be experiencing QT prolongation -- bad news, but at least it's alive!
I mean we literally just got Tishana’s tidebinder, which is a pithing needle for creatures and artifacts and a stifle and a body.