Dust Collector Update & RODE WIGO Charging Station (Random Shop Stuff 24)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
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I got asked to give an update about the dust collector that I've built a few years ago and show how it's holding up.
Also I made a charging station for my RODE WIGO microphone. I also explain the design process of making it.
Video links mentioned:
Big Dust collector: • Broken Blower and quic...
Small Dust collector: • Introduction + Wooden ...
Bandsaw pulley: • 3D-printed Pulley for ...
Link to the Thingiverse file:
www.thingivers...
Enjoy the video!
Regarding a possible video about a new impeller, I vote yes.
Like to see that too.
What i also would like to se is if you include a factory made version (plastic/metal), in the comparison.
Not that i do not see the fun in making your own the comparison would still be interesting.
Marius: Makes amazing charging station for his Røde mics.
Røde: 1 year later, comes out with an identical charging station.
Thanks for the update on the dust collectors. Obviously well engineered and made. They will be in service for many years to come. I love the mic charging station. Amazing how you designed and made them. The band saw project is finally put to bed. Time to move on to another project. We eagerly await for it. :o)
I always appreciate the fact that you show and assume your mistakes. It's very relatable :)
Marius, great proof that your dust collector designs work extremely well.
Thanks
I like how you took a video about general maintenance and cleaning and turned it into something interesting to watch. You broke down your systems and made content that is worth the time to watch. Great video!
My friend, your ability to express your thoughts and ideas, explaining the intended functionality and unwanted outcomes, and hopes and concepts based on your experiences are absolutely incredible. Thank you for the work you do and the additional time you take to share it with the world... cheers!
When the dustbin is 100% airtight you can use a dustbag inside.
I have a metal bin with a bag and that works perfect.
Just put a fee pieces of scrap wood on the bottom for weight.
You can epoxy the osb to make it airtight or use PU
Also, the dust collection system will only operate at it's maximum possible efficiency when the bottom section is completely airtight, so this should be done anyway.
Alternatively, or additionally, he can provide bypass air to help balance the air inside and outside the bag.
@@bradley3549 He already tried that with a air hose from the cyclone to the bin to keep a vacuum outside the bag but it didnt work.
@@3dmazter I must have missed that one. The concept does work, I have done it. As usual the devil is in the details, I will have to look back to see what how he did it.
To solve the issue of the bag deflecting in the dust bin, you can insert an open ended cylinder inside the bag that holds it to the outer wall of the bin. Mine is just made of a sheet of puck board riveted into a cylinder shape. You then slide the cylinder out of the bag before throwing it away. This, however works better in a cylindrical bin and not a square one.
Thank you for verbalizing your design process. I found it very useful.
Marius - For the band saw cooling .... simply add a motor housing and a cooling fan - you could probably just put a dust port on it and use the big blower to suck air over the motor - this gives you the option to use auxiliary cooling, or just the built in fan. No need for new pulleys
Wow. Your post this time is fully packed. Lots of ideas for us to see. Thank you.
9:13 The pose tells us exactly what was in your head
I regularly run my 1750 rpm motors (lathe, drill press, milling machine) at twice that using a VFD and never had a problem. They would much rather run fast than slow. Another bonus is you don't have to deal with the lack of torque that comes with running at low frequencies. So a low gear ratio coupled with high frequency results in high torque and decent top speeds.
Thanks for the great technical dialog about your design process.... very much appreciated. Also, your discussion about how Germany handles trash is very interesting as well. Here in the US our garbage is *mishandled* much differently. Please tell us about your current studies at school.
That charging station is really cool. Super compact.
Great video. I especially liked your discussion of the prototype stages in your design process.
this makes me want to make the dust collector now. Always great to see how something works over time
that garbage system is sensible, ours here is the full size box that you have, each week they empty it, we do have recycling but its not enforced really, every second week they will pick up paper recyclables, we have to bring plastics to a depot ourselves. For bulk (ie old furniture/appliances) once a month there will be a day you can request something to be picked up.
All great to see - especially your charging dock! Good job.
Just received my Rode WIGO yesterday and really looking forward to trying it out... I'll keep that charging station idea in mind, thanks!
Very common for induction motors run at slow speeds, is to remove the motor fan, and fit an auxiliary cooling fan in its place.
Its just amazing how much u can do in such a small shop!!!
Very interested in a performance comparison of impellers with different number of vanes. Hope you do that video.
At the art academy where I work we have a machine that compresses the wooddust into circular packets like hockey pucks. Really awesome to see.
Always a great & informative video Marius. Thanks, again, for sharing....
That charging dock is pretty clever
Thanks!
Mum's. Can't live without them.
This kid is amazing!!!!
I went back and watched the building of your dust collectors. I can answer the question of where the cracks in the housing came from; Ebay. Your motor came pre-cracked.
1:10 - Archeology for woodworkers! Also, if the airtightness of OSB is a concern, paint is an easy way to improve that. :)
I went and watched how you made this back in 2015. (Small Dust Collector #2) you can see the motor already have cracks where you indicated in this video.
Interesting. I didn't have in mind rewatching my own video to check for the cracks. Thanks for the info
Ich mache Messer und habe mir vor 10 Jahren meinen ersten Bandschleifer selbst gebaut. Genau aus diesem Grund, Motorüberhitzung bei langsamen Drehzahlen, habe ich mir den Motor für diese Maschine mit einem Fremdlüfter ausgestattet. Beim Messer machen schleift man oft und lange (über Stunden) mit niedrigen Drehzahlen. Ich habe in den 10 Jahren den Fremdlüfter so gut wie nie gebraucht, vielleicht 5 - 10 mal. Kurz Hand auf dem Motor gelegt und wenn gefühlt zu warm, Zeit für eine Pause.
Falls der Motor und FU es zulässt kann man auch eine Motortemperaturüberwachung einbauen die dann abschaltet.
For the red bags, you could/should use a holder, that keeps it open and upright for you.
I think the same every time I empty the bins. And after it's done I think...I'll get to it eventually
@@MariusHornberger Well, it'd also work for all the other random trash you generate that isn't fit for the extractors.
Something like this:
www.amazon.de/QUICK-STAR-Müllsackständer-Müllbeutelhalter-Müllsackhalter/dp/B07RSS2HRK
Could always buy one if you can't figure out how to build it (he said, wondering if the bait works if you say that it's bait).
I would put the red bag enveloping the whole container, flip it upside down, then tappy tap tap it all falls inside. Maybe the bottom could have a loose board and a hole to pass a temporary screw-in rod (broom stick? proper!) to act as a piston
@@MrMartinSchou I followed that link and then looked around at some of the related products which I find are only available in Germany. I found it interesting that Germany has thought out the waste stream so well as to standardize and color code trash bags for different types of trash. In the US any such standardization would cause an uproar about "government control" and "communism", but I'd be willing to bet that you pay less on average for trash collection and that your system results in cleaner streets and far less trash blowing around in your communities. In my community it is still LEGAL to burn trash, and I live on the downwind side of town. In the winter, the stench of burning trash often settles over the whole town for weeks. Personally, I compost what I can, re-use or recycle as much as I can, and haul the rest to a local trash facility, but I also have to spend about an hour a week collecting trash that blows into my yard from neighbors who simply pile their trash for a few months, waiting until there is "enough" to burn.
Hi Marius.
If you are concerned about the heat build-up in the motor, it might already contain a thermistor embedded in the stator windings. Look at the nameplate for /TH or /TF. It should be just after the motor name. eg. DT90L4/TH. If it does the thermistor can probably be connected to your new VFD. Two extra wires will then be present in the motor connection box.
You would also be able to force cool the motor and then use it below 10-15Hz without issues.
Furthermore the specific motor you are using DT90L4 is rated for, at least, a stator temperature of 125 degrees C, probably higher.
I guess you would notice a smell of hot wood dust long before the motor fails. If you have any question regarding this I'll be happy to assist.
Marius, the motor issue, keep it simple, just add a standolone fan on the back of the motor. While ICE engines need temperature to work, electric motors hate it. I don't know how much cfm it would need, but something physically identical or more efficient than the one attached to the motor. Running the motor above 50hz, will produce a tonload of heat... I wouldn't do it.
Das Problem mit Motoren und Frequenzumrichtern wie du bereits erwähnt hattest ist Kühlung.
Ein Probleme was du nicht Bedacht/wusstest ist das Motoren die Über der auf dem Typenschild stehenden Frequenz betreiben werde an Drehmoment verlieren da sie im Feldschwächebereich betreiben werden. Der Drehmoment Verlust kann bis zu 60 Prozent betragen je nach Motor.
Ob das dann noch reicht um zuverlässig Holz zu scheiden musst du selbst wissen oder probieren.
Ich persönlich würde eher für eine Fremdbelüftung am Motor sorgen als ihn bei 70 oder 80 Herz zu betreiben.
Zum Thema Stern/Dreieck musst du schauen was auf dem Motor Typen Schild als zulässige Spannung für den Stern oder Dreieck betrieb steht, sowie die Versorgungsspannung deines Frequenzumrichters beachten
Maybe covering fins with some sort of air collector that wraps airflow around the motor heatsink can help cooling it at lower speeds.
the clap 9:17, reminds of a video of a guy closing his hatch onto his ladder and shattering the glass.
The areas of collection on your impeller and inside the separator are absolutely due to the low pressure, as you mentioned, but also static attraction. The dust is charged. Since your parts are made of plastic and wood (with a plastic finish layer on the outside) it will become charged over time and attract dust. There probably isnt much you can do. Maybe adding a ESD discharge wire to your ducts, if you dont already have one, might help-- but i doubt it.
The whole trash can explanation was really interesting. We dont have anything like that here in California
You may use lazy susan for motor mounts. It removes the load on the motor shaft.
Re the band-saw. I would add an external fan that is turned on only when the motor is run at slower speeds. Like a car radiator fan. In that way you could simplify your pulley setup and run the motor at any speed you like. It will add extra space to the motor and you will need to power it somehow, but for the times your cutting metal having an extra component to start is worth the increase flexibility of the saw.
I had a similar heating problem going to a VFD. Easy fixed with a computer cooling fan that runs when the VFD is on. I took off the original fan and modified the housing to make some space.
From what i understand of aerodynamics and bernoulli's principle is that and gas that accelerates has a lower pressure. So the front of the impeller blades would actually be a lower pressure as opposed to the higher pressure described. I would imagine the dust build up is actually from a buble of stagnant air that sits behind the blade as it runs much like when you move you hand fast through water and an air pocket forms on the back side of you hand.
Another food for thought with the motor RPM with the VFD is that you could also install a thermal switch in the stop circuit that would trip off the VFD when the motor became too hot. This would be a good idea regardless of whether you adjust the pulley diameter. I suspect you would be fine with the current pulley arrangement since you're not running the saw for hours on end.
Interesting topic! Instead of worrying that the motor might be getting too hot when you run it at 30 Hz for a few minutes I'd rather be worrying about it overheating if you run it at 70 Hz or more most of the time. Unless your motor is rated for that kind of speed (which I doubt) the coils will get hot and the lifetime of the bearings reduced.
Personally I'd prefer your first option (50 Hz for wood, less for metal).
When disposing the dust into an bag make sure to keep it as dryas possible. My bag of dust got wet and i didnt notice. Microbs started growing and produced so much heat that the bag self combusted and firefighters were needed to extinguish the burning cellar... Lesson learned
Nice video. Good to get updates. Mahalo for sharing! : )
When that day comes and you fly the coup, I hope the house you buy is a real fixer upper. I'd love to see that progress.
Looks like you need to enlarge your workspace for such a big dust collector system
In Sweden (atleast the part where I live) we pay per kilogram of waste.. The garbage truck scans the bins and weighs it automatically before and after emptying. Unfortunately the yearly fee is quite high compared to the fee per kilogram so it doesn't really promote recycling as much as it could.
Just install a big pc van on the back of the motor.
You can controll it with the VFD.
It has output for that and you can change settings so the fan only starts when you go below a specific motor speed.
I was wondering the same thing, although I didn't realise that the VFD had an output for this, I thought that you'd have to design it yourself.
Always love your video's
if you have the opportunity to shift fases on the motor or other metod. you could make it run backwards for a few seconds after daily use. cleans the fins quite good :)
Neat idea, but I can't do it with this motor
I've also been working on a dead cat holder for my same microphones since I work outside a bunch. The dead cats fall off way too easily.
Always enjoy your videos...thanks
I really enjoy your videos and commentary. One thought about fins in the blower; as you probably know, some computer fans use a variation in spacing to reduce resonance and maybe break up the frequency. That might be an interesting factor to investigate.
When I empty my dust collector, I take a 30gal bag, slip it over the collector's bag, flip the whole thing, and slide the collector's bag out. Works pretty well.
But he has to use these specific bags.
@@gaunerchen1729 I get that. I wonder if it's worth making a funnel sized to them. Probably not.
a big funnel is actually my idea as well. I just never get to making it
HEY quick idea might be crap BUT i think you might be able to make an adapter that allows you to attach a red bag to the second dust collector you emptied in this video relatively easy that would allow you to minimize cleanup while emptying the bins and it would also compact the sawdust quite well
Hm, could work. My idea would be a big funnel
@@MariusHornberger definetly harder to store unless you make it collapsible
With the right vfd (if that matters) you can power low voltage pc fans when the frequency output is at a level you set in the vfd programming.
remove the motor fan and replace it with an electric fan, incorporate a bit of electronics (Arduino) for speed control, slow RPM makes the fan speeds up keeping it cool regardless of speed of the drive motor. (The DM UK)
Ha! I just commented pretty much the same.
Add an LM35 temperature sensor to one of the analogue inputs, and you could have dynamic fan speed on the basis of motor case heat:
~ Not very hot? Fan speed low (quiet)
~ Getting toastie? Fan speed high (removes more heat)
I've always disliked having fan cooling attached to motor shafts.
I would be very interested to see an 11-bladed impeller. Perhaps you could even space the blades irregularly (then restore balance with ballast weights). I would hope that the noise spectrum would be flatter than before.
Would love to see the build of an 11 blade impeller and the balance and noise difference!!
Great video, really thorough and enjoyable update.
100 people will say this, but I guess a simple tall + skinny plastic bucket in the big collector will make your dust cleanup a lot easier, (just pull it out and empty into a bag), though i guess at the expense of a bit of capacity.
I explained in the video that I already tried it and it didn't work, because the bag gets deflected from the vacuum
@@MariusHornberger bag or bucket? I get that a bag would get blown around but didn't think a proper bucket would get deflected so much, but, i've never made my own dust collector so I wouldn't know :)
I meant something along the lines of one of these inside the wooden case www.ebay.com.au/itm/200Lts-Blue-Plastic-Drum/203095361281?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20160908110712%26meid%3Deb44e93b2d18485e88636b3b96930900%26pid%3D100677%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D30%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D192641486314%26itm%3D203095361281%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2386202%26algv%3DDefaultOrganic&_trksid=p2386202.c100677.m4598
Oh I misread bag and bucket. I have seen a bucket like this imploding due to the pressure. I think what works well is a cage that prevents the bag from deflection inside the wooden bucket
This guy is like a young Matthias Wandel
I think you should run the dust collection system out through the wall into an adjacent shed or outbuilding. Cleaning would be easier and safer on your lungs. Is that feasible? Regards Col.
Maybe make a little wire or wood frame that you can clip those red bags around top in an open position to make filling much easier?
I use my sawdust in the garden as mulch
On the bandsaw, pull the silly bent piece of tin that "they" call the fan off the motor shaft. Vanish their silly restrictive cowling. Replace it all with an electric fan.
I'm sure you can come up with a cowling / cover to pretty it up and make it safe.
If the cooling is done separately with an electric fan, the cooling will obviously be separated from the motor speed.
I'm not sure if it is the kind of thing you want to get involved with, but you could even have dynamic fan speed control on the basis of motor case heat. A microcontroller and a linear temperature sensor like an LM35 would do just fine.
Horses for courses I guess - You might prefer the mechanical approach.
8:50 - The ghoasts of historical woodworking projects being sucked away to a dark, distant place.
Name the part 'mounting-foot'. or so :-)
Bandsaw: I guess, it's easier to mount an independed fan behind the motor. They are available in 230V, so you don't need a powersupply. And they are cheap. But use one from Pabst. They have have good bearings.
Maybe you could use your dust collector to draw air across your band saw motor, perhaps build an enclosure to guide the air.
22:20 Very clever solution :)
thanks
8:46 I think you could put a (large enough) plastic bag OVER the dust can, keeping it tightly around the can, then invert it upside down; if your red bag isn't big enough to go over the dust can/bin, you could use a different trash bag to dump it in first, and then put your red bag over the opening, dumping the first/larger bag into your red bag OUTDOORS. :-)
you could use the dust collection to cool the motor when cutting metal
hanks for sharing that, well said
great update. thanks.
For impeller design, this wouldn't work with 11 fins, but it would be interesting to use a design with different length fins. That should spread the noise across a wider spectrum making it sound quieter than it actually is.
I wish I had a charging station like that for my smartphone!
You will also get full power from the motor above 50hz, but not below.. So that is a factor as well. The power curve goes from 0% power at 0hz to 100% at 50hz, then 100% above 50hz as well.
You lose torque when motor is going over nameplate speed
@@ToxTox yes but not horsepower
Hallo Markus,
Kleiner Tipp von mir für den Staubsammelbehälter:
Am Boden eine Rasterplatte dann einen dünnen Schlauch 10-20 mm unten am Raster einführen und als Bypass zur Turbine anschließen. Dann kannst Du problemlos einen Beutel einlegen, natürlich oben befestigen. Diese Vorrichtung sorgt auch für Unterdruck außerhalb des Beutels, so dass dieser nicht mehr nach oben gesaugt wird.
Habe diese Lösung früher öfter verkauft, könnte Dein Problem also auch lösen.
Grüßle aus dem Ländle
Lothar
So hatte ich das auch mal aufgebaut (siehe ältere Videos) hat aber leider nicht funktioniert. Wahrscheinlich weil ich damals den Schlauch an der falschen Stelle angeschlossen hab. Wo genau müsste der Schlauch denn hin, direkt am Gebläseeinlass?
Marius Hornberger vor dem Filter, aber ruhig nach dem Zyklon, dann bist Du auf der sicheren Seite wenn der Sack mal reißt.
Wichtig ist das Raster am Boden, damit der Unterdruck überall hinkommt. Welchen Schlauchdurchmesser hast Du genommen, bei Volumensaugern(also weniger Unterdruck) muss er etwas größer sein, da reich nicht ein Schlauch mit 10 mm Außendurchmesser, weil sich dann kein Unterdruck im Sauger aufbaut. Außerdem sollte der Kasten natürlich dicht sein😉
Grüßle
Das war ein 1 Zoll Gartenschlauch bzw. sowas in der Art. Wenn du willst kannst du dir ja das alte Setup in den älteren Videos zur Absaugung anschauen und mir sagen was falsch war.
Marius Hornberger werde ich tun.
Marius Hornberger Hallo Marius, habe mir gerade mal das ältere Setup angesehen, der Bypass war definitiv an der falschen Stelle angeschlossen. Die richtige Platzierung ist bei Deinem bestehenden Setup auch sehr kompliziert. Du musst in dem Schlauch ja einen Unterdruck erzeugen daher musst Du nach dem Zyklon und vor der Turbine den Anschluss herstellen. Das heißt es muss noch ein Anschlussverlängerung zwischen Zyklon und Turbine, so ca 5-10 cm und da muss dann der Bypass angeschlossen werden.
Ich hatte vorher nicht beachtet, dass Du die Feinfiltrierung nach der Turbine hast. Ein Setup das ich so nicht verwenden würde. Der Feinfilter käme immer vor die Turbine, damit durch die Turbine nur saubere Luft strömt und keine Partikel die Turbinenschaufeln beschädigen können.
Hoffe ich konnte Dir damit weiterhelfen.
Grüßle aus dem Ländle Lothar
Regarding noise, try using different blade distances. (Like it is done in tyres and cvt chains)
Put a note on the small impeller why it's hard to take off so you remember.
Try to build a collapsible container for the red trashbags so this 9:09 doesn't happen again. The container could be built like a pallet collar and the bottom could also be attached with a hinge.
12 vs 11 blade comparison, yes please! I've often wondered if it would be possible to figure out a nonuniform blade spacing that retains balance, too. High quality endmills sometimes use nonuniform flute spacings to reduce chatter, which is kind of related (avoiding resonance).
Non-uniform fans for reduced vibration? like the fenestron on the tail of an Eurocopter (now Airbus) EC135 helicopter.
17:35 yep , it would be interesting indeed :)
15:49 wenn du dir dein Video anschaust, wo du den Motor verbaut hast siehst du, dass der Motor die Risse von Anfang an hatte
Das Lüfterrad vom Absauger mal aus dem 3D Drucker probieren. Dann kannst du auch mit der Anzahl der Rotorblätter und deren Profil experimentieren. ( Lärm, Effizienz)
Ansonsten sehr innovativ! 👍
Die Größe kann mein Drucker nicht
Red bags in America are often medical waste (bio hazard) of some kind and are only used in medical setttings.
I wonder what color you all use for that.
If we had that system in America we would probably produce much less trash. We are complaining because our trash pickup just got cut from twice a week to once a week. And they'll pick up as many cans as you put out there. But most people have one or two 60 gallon trash cans. Some are even 80 gallons.
I think we have about 40 liters of trash every two weeks (3 person household)
bring the sawdust to a horse stable somewhere near. as i worked as a carpenter some time ago we did that every two or three weeks and the owner was quite happy about the free stuff.
unfortunately my sawdust is not clean. There're also plastic and metal shavings in it
Why don't you use a separate fan for the cooling? It'd be a clean, neat solution independent of the VFD.
There may be companies that will buy your sawdust for something like particle board. Much better than putting it in the trash.
Hi! Love your videos. Can I ask what software you use to design your models in for 3d printing?
Heeyy Marius, is this TH-cam thing your main job? Or do you something else for making a living? You spend a lot of energy in this and I really adore your videos.
Big smile from your Dutch fan
The question I have is why not take the cans outside to empty them, then nature can do the work of clearing the air. Otherwise your design seems to be doing brilliantly.
I'd have to carry the bins through the house and I can't do that
I'm wondering if there's a way to make a dust collector that compresses the waste into fire logs. Especially one that fits under the cnc machine. You can use them in fires or sell them.
hey Marius, in minute 28:10 when you spoke about the motor cooling problem, you should not have a problem since the VFD limits the voltage and current that the motor takes, so less power less heat. some VFD's have a motor temperature protection feature so you should check about that. if it doesn't have that feature then you can design a protection circuit. if you need some help Ill be more then happy to assist you even thou I believe you'll be able to do that yourself and I also believe you don't realy need to worry about a motor heating problem.
The VFD has heat protection built in
@Aviv GG Lower rpm does not equal less heat.
The same torque at a lower rpm requires virtually the same current. Per R.I² we can conclude that the amount of heat energy remains equal, while at the same time cooling is reduced by the lower rpm of the cooling fan.
The first solution to the motor overheating problem that sprang into my head was to use the dust collector to suck air through the motor.