All the "edgy" evil Superman stories are truly missing the point of who Superman is and what makes the character so special. The aphorism that states that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely is turned on its head. Superman is perhaps the most powerful being in the DC universe and yet he is able to be selfless and hopeful. It's actually a very transgressive idea that goes against what is a common thought. We humans are in too many cases selfish and ready to put self interest ahead of the good of others. Superman flies in the face of this.
Also the makers of Superman originally had it where Superman was evil, but they thought it smarter and more engaging to make a character that powerful be good and decent and heroic. Which they were well very right about. I know people find Superman boring but an evil Superman is infinitely more boring imo...
This is why I love Red Son. He is raised very different, but still yearns just to help and do good. Not go to spread communism by war or have animosity with the States. Very interesting.
Yes and no. Superman was also originally the face of the new deal as well. But they removed a lot of the early social justice support from him. The thing is that superman being trusted by default is mroe of an issue, there are good discussions to be hjad. Like while I hate most of the snyder stuff the idea of superman not being trusted is an interesting idea.
I would also point out that, "What if Superman, but evil?" has been more effectively explored many times before, often by DC itself as a juxtaposition against Superman. There are dark alternate Earth versions, like Ultraman and Superboy Prime. There are villains like Doomsday, who show what would happen if a superpowered being were raised by callous sadistic parents. To a certain extent, villains like Lex Luthor and Darkseid also reflect aspects of Superman, like if he decided to use his intellect for selfish gain, or his godlike power to rule and dominate others. My favorite deconstruction of Superman is "Irredeemable" by Mark Waid, which even ends up being a tribute to Superman in the end.
FrozenWolf150 Yeah, "Irredeemable" is at least a good character study of what could turn a Superman analogue evil, instead of the concept of biological determinism that was mentioned in the video that "Brightburn" uses.
In Irredeemable, I liked seeing the differing responses people had to their world's Superman snapping. Some refused to to accept that he'd truly gone bad, some saw it coming a long time ago, never seeing him as a truly good person, and some decided that in a world that had its greatest hero turn heel, a new one needed to rise up to fill the void caused by their betrayal. Max Damage was obviously my favorite character from the series.
Superman is already a subversion of the trope “power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.” Unfortunately he’s been around so long dumb writers see like “Superman is Superman” or think audiences are stupid. Super the legit James Gunn movie does a great job at subverting the concept of a superhero. IRL vigilante action is violence without thinking thru’ the consequences. Red Letter Media has a review of Super on an earlier episode of Half in The Bag. I recommend watching the review because the movie is shocking and weird but has maybe the best ending of a “juvenile power-fantasy played out by a middle aged man” Also the review will probably show if it’s a movie you won’t enjoy like I did.
I thought brightburn was gonna be about how how superman’s upbringing and childhood would have shaped him into a killer if he didn’t turn out right due to bullying. Or what if Superman was the quiet kid in the back of the class.
They already did that with Superman: Earth One. Although he just becomes some angry nerd with delusions of grandeur, not exactly a monster. Just the very unsubtle stand in for the writer.
@@tonycampbell1424 check out the Josh trank movie "Chronicle" it pretty much goes down this road. It's a what if movie, with 3 supermen: one who was brought up in a toxic environment, one brought up in a "perfect" environment like the traditional depiction, and one brought up to be kind of apathetic and and undriven (at first) It's also very well acted, and competently directed.
you know it's funny; with the popularity of works like the boys and just how many deconstructions of superhero media there are, you'd actually be more novel by writing a straight forward superhero story without a hint of irony ( not that irony or deconstruction are bad) like what was being written in the golden or silver ages.
You just described to a point the anime/manga My Hero Academia. It definitely has things to say about the nature of heroism, and says them more explicitly than a lot of media, but never stoops to self-parody, and doesn't fall back on making fun of tropes. It's a fairly straightforward superhero school story, that comes at the themes of authority, eugenics, power and heroics in ways that examine them without ever abandoning them or being edgy.
I think the best series who does that kind of deconstruction of themes and tropes is one punch man, because it is still a superhero/shonen series, but is also deeply reflecting on the respective themes
I think there can always be more to deconstruction. Deadpool, for instance, takes all the self serious edgy comics and turns into a farse, making the very violence and dire consequences of, say, Cable comics, and makes it into a funny story that you'll read and never think about again. For all the violence and sexual themes, it's not too different from silver age batman in terms of structure.
To me Clark Kent and Peter Parker have a lot in common. Raised by a loving old couple whose values shape and prevent them turn in their enemies that are Shadows of themselves. Both have a dorky ordinary Alter persona who happens to be thems in some way. And they fought many years to get the woman of their lifes. When they take a break the city falls appart. When they go full Vigilante their lifes suffers. I wish someday there will be a Superman saga just as good as the original Spiderman trilogy with the pure interactions like the ones between Reeves and Kidder, amazing action and big stakes, homage to the mithos, simple plot that allows the characters to breath and therefor make it deep.
"It strikes me that the only reason to take apart a pocket watch, or a car engine, aside from the simple delight of disassembly, is to find out how it works. To understand it, so you can put it back together again better than before, or build a new one that goes beyond what the old one could do. We've been taking apart the superhero for ten years or more; it's time to put it back together and wind it up, time to take it out on the road and floor it, see what it'll do." - Kurt Busiek.
Today I learned that we are Human-beings, not Human-bees. Gotta say, I was hoping this movie was going to be about what happens when you give a child without the limits of emotional restraint and the foreknowledge of consequence & empathy the power to do whatever he wants and get away with it. That kind of power would corrupt any child and it would have been interesting to discuss how people who are raised with undue advantages develop a false sense of superiority and an expectation of extra rights over other people. This happens because their advantages let them get away with whatever they want, so they come to expect that they are entitled to whatever they want even if what they want is unreasonable. That is until the day they can't get what they want, and that's when their shit really hits the fan, they loose any pretense of control and holy shit that kid is firing lasers from out of his eyes! Superpowers could have been a neat stand in for undue privilege and it's destructive enablism of peoples selfish impulses. But nope, we got bees & wasps instead. Oh, well.
Me too, there was so much to explore. something I always wondered was how children have no choice but to obey their parents because their parents are stronger and smarter than them, so they have more Authority. But what if the child is already stronger and more capable than their parents so they have no reason whatsoever to evade them.
There's a classic Twilight Zone episode that explores that exact plot and is maybe one of the best of the entire franchise. It's called "It's a Good Life" and it's damn excellent.
I was excited for Brightburn, but the movie was a disappointment. Then in the end credits they added a newspaper segment that mentioned other bad guys, like a bad guy Justice League, and against my own better judgment I felt excited again. Clearly, I'm not good at learning my lesson the first time.
My favorite of the "death is not permanent" lines in all of comics was this short bit from one of the X-Men books years ago. Cyclops: Jean's dead. Emma: That'll take.
The reason lines like that annoy me is that Jean Grey has a reputation for it that doesn't match reality. She's known for coming back from the dead, when, among the X-Men, she's the one who stays dead the longest! She was dead for like 14 years because people kept thinking "oh, you can't bring Jean back, she always comes back." You want to talk about people who come back from the dead all the time, there's pretty much every single other member of the X-Men, to the point Jonathan Hickman baked resurrection into the setting in his ongoing retool of the franchise! Cyclops himself has died and come back more times and with more frequency. And that's not even getting into all the times Xavier has died and come back.
The one thing I couldn’t stop thinking when watching Brightburn is that if one valid interpretation of Superman is an allegory of a refugee becoming a part of and improving the society that takes them in, then the analogous interpretation of Brightburn is an allegory of an immigrant coming to take from and replace the society that adopts them, like the parasite wasps in the wasp story the kid tells at the beginning. Like you said, I don’t “immigrants bad” was the intended message of the movie, especially since this is the unconscious societal fear behind pretty much every story of an evil invading force, but part of me finds that even more off putting. Also, at the end they have an Alex Jones parody who correctly deduces that an alien invasion is going on while being dismissed by everyone as a crackpot, which is meant to be a joke, but to me it almost feels like a lampshade of the political alignment of the film to me.
Moore's Miracleman is an interesting take on "What if Bad Superman", it ends with the titular hero "saving" humanity by essentially ruling over it through benign dictat. The implication is that if a creature with Superman's power existed and set out to fix everything wrong with the world, humankind would inevitably become subsurvient to them regardless of noble intent. Ultimately we get a golden age of peace at the expense of surrendering free will to a God-like being.
No mention of "Chronicle"?? Granted, it's not an outright deconstruction, but I don't think it ever claimed to be. And it still managed to get a hell of a lot closer to a meta-deconstruction of superhero/villain archetypes than anything Snider ever made.
Soyborne. Born, made, and undone by the soy. I like the writing. I read the manga and I think the story is really fun. Maybe because the art is much better.
I enjoyed Brightburn overall, it was a serviceable "what if Superman, but bad!?" horror movie, but it also set up a lot of interesting turns that it just... completely failed to follow. The wasp vs bee exposition, the buzzing when he uses his super speed or is hearing the ship, I was really hoping they pulled out some kind of "this apparent human form is a larval stage" twist, and just.... nope. It's a real shame, they could have done something more. I did enjoy The Boys, but I recognize it's not for everyone.
There was actually a story in a DC comics horror anthology (parody) that was pretty much the same plot. Was printed a few years before this movie if I recall. It involved a slightly older Kal-el landing on Earth and terrorizing Ma Kent. Edit: Found it DC House of Horror #1.
The most dreadful outcome of this juvenile (and as you succinctly put it, "edgy") over-indulgence in postmodernist deconstruction of our heroes is the death of hope. Superman, above all costumed heroes, is meant to instill hope in the human race. A belief that we can be more than we are - that we are worth saving. (The parallels to Christ are long-standing and well-documented.) Much as we are loathe to admit it, human beings need examples of righteousness to follow - and when all we see is the opposite, our behaviour reflects it. The tiresome postmodern need to discover the dark side of everything robs us of the hope that we need to live. The hope that we're more than the smartest beast. The hope that we can create a better future. Without that, we might as well join our four-legged companions in the dirt.
Kurt Riley Wise words to live by, especially in these tough times, it's important to never give up on hope or your fellow man, even with the odds stacked against you, we need to help, act, and support each other out of empathy and kindness. Also, I hope you're having a nice day.
You say that as if the acceptance that hope is a comforting illusion is ultimately a bad thing and that we should not come to our senses regarding that issue. While I agree that we shouldnt go out of our way to make a shitty world shittier for everyone else, we should never fool ourselves into believing that we can ever fix the problems that plague our every moment of awakened, conscious existence. We are, in the end, inevitably destined to die on a dying planet in a dying universe, a faded footnote forgotten to the forces of time, entropy, and chaos, and any attempt to delay that fate, much less overcome it, is mere folly. Thats why dark interpretations of traditionally inspiring and encouraging genres dont bother me, because they are, by design, intentionally or not, a means to bring sentient beings such as ourselves a closer face-to-face look with our own fragile mortality and the awareness that anything, anywhere could take it away from us at any moment. The sooner we make peace with that and accept our fate with calm acknowledgement, the better.
IaMaPh1991 All I was trying to say, is that hope is an important part of life, along with empathy and kindness. I also agree that you can't fix all the wrongdoings in the world, I wasn't trying to enforce a "Wait for the problems to go away"-type mentality, and I'm sorry if I sounded like a naive idiot, what I was meaning to say, is that it is important to be hopeful and inspire others, but not blindly and I agree that dark interpretations, if it's done well, with good writing and valid points to make, it can turn out pretty good. But I disagree strongly with the "destined to die" comment, while none of us have a lot of time on Earth, I would rather have it that we all go out knowing that we did something to make a everyone's lives better, no matter how small, than die with a million regrets. It's not about how much time we have, it's what we choose to do with it. And one more thing, are you having a good day?
I am so unbelievably disappointed in brightburn. I was hoping they’d go all in on deconstructing the Superman Jesus metaphors...like I thought the writers would try to specify that Brandon could have gone either way, but the way that his family treated him like Jesus and his classmates treated him like a monster, he could have still turned bad purely by choice. Guess that would have been too intelligent for them.
The boys is an example of comic book adaption for which we should be really grateful that it isn’t "more like the source material", because the source material is mostly macho, homophobic and sexist "humor" mixed in with incredibly dislikable, brutal, vulgar main characters.
*Edgy Superman deconstructionists* are literally like *Lex Luthor.* They don't try to understand the character or why people love him, so they attempt to *obliterate* him by any means necessary. The thought of *reconstruction and improvement* never enters their minds, because they're too cynical/belligerent/soulless to get a feel for what the character *about.* And he is all about *the Power of Human Good and Decency.* Also thank you for using Fleischer Bros Superman at the end. Truly one of the best versions *and* my favourite Superman theme tune. 😉
You threw a lot of shade at 'The Boys' and you obviously don't want to make a whole video about it, but would you mind quickly telling me what it is about it that triggers this level of apparent disgust for it.
While the show is much, much better than the comic and actually feels like it's saying something, the comic is still just violence and obscenity for the sake of violence and obscenity.
@@diesenutss You can say that again. The comics are Garth Ennis in full edgelord mode. I was very reluctant to watch 'The Boys' for that exact reason. I read the first few issues when it came out and it has left a bad taste in my mouth ever since. So I was actually quite positively surprised by the show when I did start to watch it.
I liked Brightburn but that Brandon's start of evil was started by his ship and he was basically biologically programmed to go bad and start killing people was a bad idea. The whole point of Superman's character is that anyone, raised by loving parents and taught to do good, can become a model member of society. It seemed to me that the best way to tackle what Brightburn tried to do would be to flip the whole origin on its script by having Brandon's parents be awful and abusive, since the Kents' parenting of Clark Kent is probably the impetus by which he becomes a superhero anyway. I was still dying to watch Brightburn despite the tired notion of an "evil Superman," simply because it was the first real live-action attempt to do so and at least unlike the DCEU dreck, it was an original concept, so it wasn't really harmful to my boy Superman. I do hate this current trend of "contrarianism for the sake of contrarianism," for so many reasons, but not the least of which is that I'm fucking sick and tired of Superman having to be a bad guy in so many media. It's like WB/DC is afraid of letting Superman actually be superheroic. But like I said, I was okay with Brightburn doing it since at least it was an original property.
Honestly the part in one of the trailers when the woman gets glass stuck in her eyes was enough to convince me not to watch this movie. I can't stand that kind of stuff!
Then if you watch John Wick 3, look away during the scene where he is slowly pushing a knife towards a dude's eye. You think they're not gonna show it but then they just fuckin do.
Which run...? I haven't read any other than a few sections of the one by Mark Millar (did he, Ellis, and Morrison all work on it?) and that comic made me want to puke and reject the bullsh*t that is nihilistic deconstructionism altogether. Kind of weird that it was written by the same guy who wrote Red Son, which I actually liked a lot.
That's the thing, Brightburn COULD have been so interesting from the perspective of "what would happen if we gave a hormonal boy the power to do whatever he wanted". Have him be a normal kid no "genetically encoded malice" he's a kid that can suddenly get away with everything he ever wanted. Does he start but making small stuff at first, stealing things, seeing what he could get away with as he gets bolder and bolder? Does he have conflict with the morals instilled with him so that even when he's doing bad things he has some degree of guilt or pathos over his actions? Does his connection to the important people to his life like his family ground him or even potentially act as the forces that keep him human or end up driving him down a darker path? Nope none of that! It was kid with power bad cause power bad and also some uncomfortable subtext borderline text on genetic determinism.
They did bring up the topic that not all superheroes are bad though. There are two story arcs that involves two supers with a conscience, and even an arc about facing the consequences of your actions. There is even some potential in exploring something else that was sort of hinted at all throughout season one. It isn't really supers are "assholes" but more that they are flawed human beings, just like everyone else. Also, the underlying theme is definitely about corporate businesses ruining people's lives.
@@blahblahmanist when I think about it you could replace the supers in The Boys with billionaire/hollywood stars and it'd be the same story. I mean thats kinda what I think the story touched on in terms of social critique but I dont think it does anything unique by giving some characters superpowers.
@@poego6045 there is still room for that, we are getting a second season, for now it was one of the best series of 2019 imho, and I am glad that they reworked the characters and themes, gave everything more dimension
If you want to see a movie/comic that is unintentionally one of the greatest deconstructions of the entire concept of superpowers, I'd recommend you watch/read (though read before watch) the anime and manga classic Akira. Akira calls into question whether or not humans can handle superpowers at all, and explores what would happen if an average person with vices and a chip on his shoulder got superpowers.
Thank you for the ending credits and reminding me that my brother has DVDs of the Max Fleischer cartoons. It has been a really long time since I watched them. I think I was in school or it was on Television while I was being babysat.
When I furst saw the trailer for Man of Steel, I got excited because it looked as though it was going to explore the morality of how Superman ought to use his power or whether he should, but Kevin Costner's opposition to using them was poorly explained and just seemed silly. Batman made some more interesting points about the issue in Batman vs Superman, but his concerns were portrayed as misguided and he ultimately decided Superman was OK because his mother's name was Martha.
Its so funny that you bring this up. Last night a few friends and I had a a very long discussion about postmodernism while on some particularly potent psychedelics. And I we came to the conclusion that any asshole with a philips head and 15 minutes can take something apart and scatter its pieces everywhere. I am so unbeleiveably bored with this hackneyed approach and people pretending its clever. Youre absolutely right when you say its nothing but trading,in the inagery and mythology. that little motor i pilled out of an old vcr is techicly a motor i guess, but its not doing a whole lot of motoring. It just sots there on my coffee table collecting dust. Novel only fpr what it is the appearance of. Any asshole with with a philips head and 15 minutes can take something apart. But what can you put back together. I contend it might be time for another romantic revival. (watch the boys. its honestly worth Garth Ennising all over the place for Starlight as a character.)
i knew brightburn was going to be disappointing the second i saw the first trailer. a boy having the idea of his origins being completely flipped on its head, but remaining good and kindhearted and willing to help everyone around him despite feeling and knowing he is wielding incredible power is much more of revolutionary idea than a boy realizing he has incredible power and deciding to go off the deep end/and or using it for their benefit only. we already see the second on a regular basis, it's not as interesting.
Inuyashiki the last hero, makes an attempt to deconstruct what a human would do with superpower. An old man and a schoolboy are both turned into weaponized super-robots by an alien force. One deals with the fear of no longer being human by saving lives, the other by killing. The anime is worth a watch.
An interesting thing about The Authority is that the first run by Warren Ellis, while it pushed some boundaries as far as the amount of destruction portrayed, really wasn't trying to be post-modern. Ellis has even said that he was just trying to do a big summer action movie comic. It was Mark Millar who brought in the kinda deconstructionist and satirical elements...portraying the characters as violent jerks, having them fight parodies of Marvel superheroes, having the UN /G-8 send in a monster/assassin to deal with the team cuz they kept violating international law etc. Other writers didn't really seem to know where to go from that though. One comic I think it's worth checking out is the Squadron Supreme mini-series from the mid-80's written by Mark Gruenwald. The heroes ( who are loose parodies/homages of the Justice League) in order to fix their world decide to more or less take it over. Their intentions are good, but in the end, a lot of their plans end up backfiring. What's interesting is that the comic really does try to deal with the moral and political implications of their actions.
Honestly to me a more interesting "What if superman but..." would be one where it's a flawed, but well meaning person, compared to what Superman... I want to say "Is", but sometimes it feels like "was". Truly, completely Good. A flawed person who tries to grapple with immense power, they start with trying to be a superhero but end up worrying if they do more harm then good. But also worry that, if they have the power to do something but don't for fear of what might happen, are they letting bad things happen? There are so many angles to take it. Superman can be such an interesting character, and I really hate that a lot of folks seem to think he's boring. There are heroes I prefer (Spiderman, namely, both Peter and Miles, because they're often the kind of flawed-but-genuinely-good kind of character I like), but Superman is a unique character due to his position as a figure in culture, at least western culture.
Superman isn't necessarily boring, but a lot of the time I've heard that he is. He can be interesting- really, he shouldn't be completely convinced that he's always doing the right thing, he should have some doubt in him- but I haven't seen that explored very much compared to him being a flat Jesus figure for the other characters to bounce off of.
@@cadencenavigator958 To me, the versions of Superman that have been the most interesting are the version where he is always right. "All-Star Superman" and "What's Wrong With Truth Justice and the American Way?" come to mind
Honestly the Boys is pretty decent, certainly much better than it's source material. It does a decent job of tackling the problems with the idea of super heroes whilst tackling their media monopoly in our current world. It's a little weird coming from amazon though...
In all honesty, I am sick and tired of the concept of evil Superman! Why do people think it's interesting for Superman to be evil rather than just being good? Superman has shown that good people can have great power, and use it to help people, rather than hurt or oppress. What is wrong with Superman just being a good man? I would say that Superman being evil is more terrifying than interesting. I prefer Superman being good.
I genuinely enjoyed The Boys. It had a lot of issues, but Homelander felt less like "bad superman" and more like the totality of unchecked power and privilege under capitalism. The collectivism of those who were hurt by that privilege, both super and powerless, was what made it stand apart to me.
I do agree that Brightburn is a missed opportunity in some ways, but my reading of the film is that it's a commentary on *certain aspects* of masculinity in the modern world. Brandon Breyer was raised with the preconceived notions that he was born special and superior to others, and the messages of the Ship can be analogous to radicalization, or at least that's how I read it, rather than it being analogous of biological determinism. It's "What if Superman was an incel" basically. I think if they casted the kids slightly older, like 15-16 instead of 12-13, I think it would've worked better. Like they make a big point that he feels entitled to have the girl he has a crush on, and that he lashes out with violence when he doesn't get what he wants.
I honestly don’t hate these deconstructions or edgy ways to handle the likes of Superman Or should I say, Clark. Because as more of these kinds of stories and characters come & go. This sea of black has a glowing blue pearl that shines brightly even to this day. That pearl is Clark Kent, not the last son of krypton or the most powerful hero of earth (Even though that title belongs to Martian Manhunter or Flash) But simply the son of farmers in Kansas, Jonathan and Martha Kent. There is something unique and endearing about a wholesome farm kid who dreams about becoming a superhero, simply because its right and he wants too. No parental death, no accident or some giant destiny form the universe. Just a man and his dream. His values and personality can be ridicule and mocked by all. Which is endearing with age! He wishes to do good for the world despite the constant evil or bitterness around him. He carries the responsibility of his powers and faces the consequences (Something Homelander could not), he hears the world’s suffering but won’t give up (Plutonian could not) and he always strives to be the best we can be even after so much heartache through his failures or mistakes (Dr Manhattan couldn’t care less). And all of that can be represented in the adventures Clark endures, But it already has a form. Lex Luther, a self made human whose ego and jealousy overshadows his ability to actually save humanity. Always looking for a way to step on values Superman shares to stay stubborn to his own perspective. Something we can relate to everyday. *”If it wasn’t for you! I would’ve saved the world!”* *”If it really mattered to you Luther. You could’ve saved the world years ago.”* *“...Your right...”* *-All Star Superman.* We may mock him, but Superman is needed now more than ever. Show we can do better and that we can be better.
If you want to dive into a production that does a great job of deconstructing the tropes and themes of the super-hero genre you should dissect Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along-Blog. Not only is it a great musical with a tight narrative, it flips many of the genre's themes is a unique way.
I haven't read The Boys but I kind of love the show. It isn't very thought-provoking and it's intentionally over the top, usually for the sake of dark humor and there is a bit of that "edgy for the sake of edgy" but the superheroes being bad has a point to it. It's a commentary is on corrupt power systems and how even those in power who don't do anything wrong are still complicit in the wrongdoings of others. It's also about the futility of revenge to a lesser extent. I'm sure it's not for everyone and I'm not going to act like it's incredibly deep but it's entertaining and there is a very clear point being made. You could argue about whether the point being made is obvious or problematic but it certainly isn't completely hollow.
I honestly think the reason the TV version of The Boys is better than the comics version, and more mature, is because it realizes this, and doesn't go for the postmodernist tack at all; it's a deconstruction, but it's a very modernist deconstruction. The issue isn't that superpowers exist, it's that they don't belong to the right people. Which honestly makes it a whole lot better, because that allows an examination of how power actually corrupts people while avoiding a lot of Ennis' fundamental meanness and hypocrisy. Homelander isn't Bad Superman, but a bad man with Superman-like powers, and that makes him an intimidating and often horrifying villain, because he's a natural extension of what would happen if a hypocritical religious zealot got superpowers and decided be a "hero" to push his agenda. It doesn't look down on the heroic impulse itself; it's telling that one of the big character moments is Hughie calling out Butcher's own zealotry as being exactly like Homelander's, and that he'd be the same way - he just happened to have a focus for his hatred that happened to be pointing at another manchild.
Even Snyder's Superman was too evil (at least too far from benevolent) when they made him destroy so much cityscape and kill in anger. They didn't make much of his character, or develop his dad enough to feel the gravity of his death. Though I guess that's typical Snyder, no depth, all boom boom.
Im currently writing a screenplay featuring Nightwing with the attempt at deconstructing Batman worship and showing him as an irresponsible rich guy wrapped up in his own problems and breaking the lives of those closest to him, including the child he adopted and brainwashed into a child soldier
Chronicle is great because the kids are granted their powers at the same time in the same way, and it all coms down to how they choose to use them from that point on. No hogwash about genetic determinism and the like and the one that opts for the might makes right path is clearly the villain by the end. But I'm not so sure it is much of a deconstruction of what a super hero movie is as much as how one is told, or can be told.
I remember sitting through the inane slog that was Brightburn, thinking about what I would change about the script to make it all worthwhile, and I just ended up with the plot to "Chronicle".
I hope the animated version of Red Son does the story justice. Superman but Communist. He's still a good man, but upholding Soviet ideology instead of Capitalism. He's conflicted, he does morally questionable things, and [spoilers] eventually realizes that the world would be better off without an invulnerable demi-god hovering over it. He lets Lex become the hero he always could have been. [/spoilers]
I absolutely hated The Boys comic back in the day. Never finished it due to its nastiness and bro-dog lazy humor. Imagine my surprise when the show turned out really good by actually giving all the characters three dimensions. However, i can't say that it offers the postmodernism one might want. And it's still quite nasty. Just not shit-nasty like Garth Ennis' source material.
I dont think most writers of comic related media go about with the intention of deconstructing the mediim, rather they ask a simple question "like what if superman went bad?" And the deconstruction may or may not emerge from such an exploration. Even watchmen can be some upped by asking "what sort of people would dress up and play super hero/villain?" The invariable answer is nutters.
Personally, my favorite is Johnny Blaze (Ghost Rider) pouring gasoline on his head, igniting it, and speeding through the desert at night for his last stunt.
Well, sometimes you’ll get a great deconstruction of a genre. Then other times you’ll get Funny Games. And yeah, Funny Games is an awful deconstruction movie.
Chronicle tried to make a point about some people with powers using them for good and some using them for bad based on how the world treats them but fell apart because the "bad" one was such a whiny turd I didn't care.
Apart from the biological determinism and the fact that the kid never questions what he's doing and goes full on murder mode without blinking or questioning himself (he never fights the urge, he just is "I wanna kill this person so that's what I'll do"), is that the movie also covers inc*ls. His crush seems to be interested but then he becomes super stalkery and creepy, breaks into her home, acts menacingly, breaks her hand while threatening her and then kills her mom. All of this because she didn't like being stalked. The movie doesn't really criticise this, it just goes "Well, this is what happens when boys/men want a girl and she defies him" and that's about all they have to say. The movie and characters never once engage in a conversation about this, it's just seen as a natural result of an infatuated boy. The girl, who was interested as first, is creeped out by his possessive behaviour and the movie's response is to go full inc*l terrorist and have him kill people. The fact that this behaviour is in the movie and not engaged with at all apart from "this is normal and happens when girls/women ignore men" and "oh, so scary" with no challenge, conversation or exploration of the underlying systems just serves to further strengthen the biological determinism, as it simply brakes down to: boys will be boys, which means violent and angry, so better give them what they want.
I wonder what he'd say about Invincible. Although I found it enjoyable for similar reasons to The Boys but I can see that The Boys definitely does provoke a much different feeling, but at least I think that the show is much better at deconstructing some ideas than the comic.
I tried to watch The boys exactly because I expected it to be a clever twist on the genre. And even though there are a couple of clever ideas in the premise, after watching the first episode I understand that they were more interested in gore and action rather than themes.
Great video! I was wondering one thing, as your definition of post-modernism is one of the best i’ve ever seen before. I’ve usually struggled to describe post-modernism to others but you have done so really well here and I was wondering how you got at your definition. Did you read it in a book or come up with it on your own? I’m always looking for further reading material
nice watch. I saw Brightburn in a mostly empty theater. it was empty until a father and daughter walked in 20 minutes into the movie. I hated the film. slow, uninteresting, the little kid was a terrible, creepy brat. Elizabeth banks' acting nearly saved the experience for me, but not really. the movie had no real message imo, it had no actual conclusion and it was just a big waste of time. and it flopped accordingly.
Thank you! You pretty much pinpointed my absolute problems with these supposed deconstructions of the superhero genre. It just boils down to "What if this Superman like character was really an asshole!" Wow so original dudes. But yeah that's basically the point of The Boys & that apparently if people in our world had powers they would for sure be completely evil. Like it basically gives big middle finger to not only Superman, and Captain America but also X-Men, and kind of justifies the anti-mutant people in XMen. But the thing is we don't know how people who be if they had powers. They prob wouldn't be full on saints but I doubt they would be 1 dimensional evil shit Lords either. I felt like a pretty decent but still flawed deconstruction of superheroes happened in the show The Misfits. It wasn't perfect but it didn't make me wanna scream til I bled like the little I saw of The Boys. Also The Tick is the absolute best deconstruction of the superhero genre ever, goodbye...
I would put brightburn in my carousel of horror movies to show friends, but I'd also say your critique is valid. It doesn't say much about the genre. However, it's an entertaining addition to said genre
@@renegadecut9875 its a pretty decent movie, It's pretty much a what if story, with 3 supermen: -one who was brought up in a toxic environment, -one brought up in a "perfect" environment like the traditional depiction, -and one brought up to be kind of apathetic and and undriven (at first) It's also very well acted, and competently directed.
Superhero deconstructions began in the '80s with "Watchmen" and "Batman the Dark Knight Returns" as an industry-wide cartoonists' rebellion against the Comics Code Authority censorship of the '50s and '60s and following underground comix and '70s- '80s action, horror, mystery and martial arts movies influence as more "realistic" and "socially relevant". Later comics and movies "followed the leader," without understanding the deep philosophy and political satire of the first two or the movie genres cited. Postmodernism is a complex philosophy, most easily understood by the average person as "everything's relative" in politics, religion and science, comically distorted skyscrapers and Nineties Antiheroes in comic book media. Watergate and Vietnam made many people, including cartoonists and comics fans, cynical, hence the "What if Superman was evil?" plot in "Brightburn," because they cannot believe Superman's omnipotence, ideal celibate hero behavior and sentimentality. An alien farmer hiding his godlike powers from a bunch of nosy reporters for 85 years with glasses seems quite implausible. Lots of action movies unfairly stereotype wealthy, high-status foreign people as villains. Science fiction and horror both share "beware the superhuman" plots, which are common in Capepunk, the superhero subgenre "Brightburn," "Watchmen," "Dark Knight Returns," "Kick Ass," "The Joker" and "The Boys" all belong to. This trope dates from the Ring of Gyges myth, Jekyll and Hyde and the Invisible Man.
A "transgression" can best describe most modern films attempting a literal deconstruction when all they desire is a rehash of the old under a new guise instead of anything structurally significant.
I thought Leon would actually enjoy The Boys show, given how radically different from the source material the show actually is. I mean, tha show is a bit all over the place with the messaging and whitewashes the C.I.A. , but overall is WAY better than most superhero fiction.
I would cite the Injustice comics as a good example of superhero deconstruction. A lot of that centers around authority and how absolute power corrupts absolutely. It starts with Superman snapping just once, and then it's all downhill from there. Kind of predictable, but very interesting -- Superman has a very high degree of power (although he isn't physically infallible), and the comic shows just how quickly that can go wrong. Moreover, it shows how easily and *willingly* it can go wrong; it's alluded to/mentioned throughout Injustice 1 and 2 that there are a lot of people who support Superman's rampant totalitarianism. We have to be ever-vigilant to be skeptical of even the most trusted authority, even the authority that wears red, blue, and yellow, and has an S on his chest.
11:03 THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS oh my god I have problems putting it into words but this has been a super serious problem in Blizzard writing in the past few years that it makes me want to pull my hair out, like... what's the point of writing them as bad? "Oh look the light aligned people can do bad too!" Kay? Why not do that NOT with a race of people literally being hunted for over ten thousand years and literally had to fake their extinction and instead one of the other races of people you just position as good and holy and light without critique?? Oi. (I will never not be pissed off at Blizzard turning Yrel into a fucking genocider and if I ever meet the person who made that decision... oh body you're going down.)
I would love a story about deconstruction of the deconstruction of good people (in this case Super Heros). You change the view to some people living in a "Superman" world and there cynical behavior towards him. But Superman is in reality actually just a good guy. Those normal people are actually terrible them self and are just projecting there own self into him. If they are bad people trying to act good, then Supermen also is just acting.
I saw one episode of The Boys, it was fine, but I'm not exactly compelled to continue watching. What I don't get is why Amazon even made this show when they already had a perfectly good superhero deconstruction show - The Tick! It has an interesting take on Superman with Superian, and it goes beyond the fact that his only weakness is the chemical element Bismuth, which I personally find hilarious. Also, Legion - particularly season 2.
I kept expecting brightburn to actually be about something right until the end, like they would reveal that his actions were alien and not evil. This doubled the disappointment.
Of course we're not bees!
We are lobsters!
I scrolled down looking for this exact comment. Was not disappointed.
@@beanjm9773 And if you have any drugs for him
@@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342 We'll carve lobsters all over his grave
andyhoov you forgot to flex *puff chest, crab claws snaps twice*
@@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342 i mean there are worse associations to be stuck with, there is always sargon
All the "edgy" evil Superman stories are truly missing the point of who Superman is and what makes the character so special. The aphorism that states that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely is turned on its head. Superman is perhaps the most powerful being in the DC universe and yet he is able to be selfless and hopeful. It's actually a very transgressive idea that goes against what is a common thought. We humans are in too many cases selfish and ready to put self interest ahead of the good of others. Superman flies in the face of this.
Also the makers of Superman originally had it where Superman was evil, but they thought it smarter and more engaging to make a character that powerful be good and decent and heroic. Which they were well very right about. I know people find Superman boring but an evil Superman is infinitely more boring imo...
Right. People forget that Superman himself is a subversion. So subverting the subversion is just stating the status quo. Snooze fest.
This is why I love Red Son. He is raised very different, but still yearns just to help and do good. Not go to spread communism by war or have animosity with the States. Very interesting.
Yes and no. Superman was also originally the face of the new deal as well. But they removed a lot of the early social justice support from him. The thing is that superman being trusted by default is mroe of an issue, there are good discussions to be hjad. Like while I hate most of the snyder stuff the idea of superman not being trusted is an interesting idea.
@@cosmosblue772 and being able to fly instead of superjumping around
I would also point out that, "What if Superman, but evil?" has been more effectively explored many times before, often by DC itself as a juxtaposition against Superman. There are dark alternate Earth versions, like Ultraman and Superboy Prime. There are villains like Doomsday, who show what would happen if a superpowered being were raised by callous sadistic parents. To a certain extent, villains like Lex Luthor and Darkseid also reflect aspects of Superman, like if he decided to use his intellect for selfish gain, or his godlike power to rule and dominate others.
My favorite deconstruction of Superman is "Irredeemable" by Mark Waid, which even ends up being a tribute to Superman in the end.
FrozenWolf150 Yeah, "Irredeemable" is at least a good character study of what could turn a Superman analogue evil, instead of the concept of biological determinism that was mentioned in the video that "Brightburn" uses.
In Irredeemable, I liked seeing the differing responses people had to their world's Superman snapping. Some refused to to accept that he'd truly gone bad, some saw it coming a long time ago, never seeing him as a truly good person, and some decided that in a world that had its greatest hero turn heel, a new one needed to rise up to fill the void caused by their betrayal.
Max Damage was obviously my favorite character from the series.
Feels like evil Superman has become so popular that it'd be considered a deconstruction if you told a good Superman story today.
Yeah, original Superman movie will be a deconstruction of this trope.
Superman is already a subversion of the trope “power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.” Unfortunately he’s been around so long dumb writers see like “Superman is Superman” or think audiences are stupid.
Super the legit James Gunn movie does a great job at subverting the concept of a superhero. IRL vigilante action is violence without thinking thru’ the consequences. Red Letter Media has a review of Super on an earlier episode of Half in The Bag. I recommend watching the review because the movie is shocking and weird but has maybe the best ending of a “juvenile power-fantasy played out by a middle aged man” Also the review will probably show if it’s a movie you won’t enjoy like I did.
I thought brightburn was gonna be about how how superman’s upbringing and childhood would have shaped him into a killer if he didn’t turn out right due to bullying. Or what if Superman was the quiet kid in the back of the class.
They already did that with Superman: Earth One. Although he just becomes some angry nerd with delusions of grandeur, not exactly a monster. Just the very unsubtle stand in for the writer.
horse was that intentional? Sounds much more interesting than him just being a nazi or an evil god
@@tonycampbell1424 check out the Josh trank movie "Chronicle" it pretty much goes down this road.
It's a what if movie, with 3 supermen: one who was brought up in a toxic environment, one brought up in a "perfect" environment like the traditional depiction, and one brought up to be kind of apathetic and and undriven (at first)
It's also very well acted, and competently directed.
It’s called Megamind sweaty
@@ElevatorEleven Superman: (pulls out gun) “it's in my nature“
you know it's funny; with the popularity of works like the boys and just how many deconstructions of superhero media there are, you'd actually be more novel by writing a straight forward superhero story without a hint of irony ( not that irony or deconstruction are bad) like what was being written in the golden or silver ages.
You just described to a point the anime/manga My Hero Academia. It definitely has things to say about the nature of heroism, and says them more explicitly than a lot of media, but never stoops to self-parody, and doesn't fall back on making fun of tropes. It's a fairly straightforward superhero school story, that comes at the themes of authority, eugenics, power and heroics in ways that examine them without ever abandoning them or being edgy.
I think the best series who does that kind of deconstruction of themes and tropes is one punch man, because it is still a superhero/shonen series, but is also deeply reflecting on the respective themes
I think there can always be more to deconstruction. Deadpool, for instance, takes all the self serious edgy comics and turns into a farse, making the very violence and dire consequences of, say, Cable comics, and makes it into a funny story that you'll read and never think about again. For all the violence and sexual themes, it's not too different from silver age batman in terms of structure.
@@seansharpe4681 So, basically Puella Magi Madoka Magica then?
Astro City was an attempt at reconstruction of super hero tropes in response to this kind of thing.
“The Kick-Ass comic is...different...”
Wow, that’s certainly an understatement! 😆
To me Clark Kent and Peter Parker have a lot in common. Raised by a loving old couple whose values shape and prevent them turn in their enemies that are Shadows of themselves. Both have a dorky ordinary Alter persona who happens to be thems in some way. And they fought many years to get the woman of their lifes. When they take a break the city falls appart. When they go full Vigilante their lifes suffers. I wish someday there will be a Superman saga just as good as the original Spiderman trilogy with the pure interactions like the ones between Reeves and Kidder, amazing action and big stakes, homage to the mithos, simple plot that allows the characters to breath and therefor make it deep.
"It strikes me that the only reason to take apart a pocket watch, or a car engine, aside from the simple delight of disassembly, is to find out how it works. To understand it, so you can put it back together again better than before, or build a new one that goes beyond what the old one could do. We've been taking apart the superhero for ten years or more; it's time to put it back together and wind it up, time to take it out on the road and floor it, see what it'll do."
- Kurt Busiek.
Never thought of it like that
Today I learned that we are Human-beings, not Human-bees.
Gotta say, I was hoping this movie was going to be about what happens when you give a child without the limits of emotional restraint and the foreknowledge of consequence & empathy the power to do whatever he wants and get away with it. That kind of power would corrupt any child and it would have been interesting to discuss how people who are raised with undue advantages develop a false sense of superiority and an expectation of extra rights over other people. This happens because their advantages let them get away with whatever they want, so they come to expect that they are entitled to whatever they want even if what they want is unreasonable. That is until the day they can't get what they want, and that's when their shit really hits the fan, they loose any pretense of control and holy shit that kid is firing lasers from out of his eyes! Superpowers could have been a neat stand in for undue privilege and it's destructive enablism of peoples selfish impulses. But nope, we got bees & wasps instead. Oh, well.
Me too, there was so much to explore. something I always wondered was how children have no choice but to obey their parents because their parents are stronger and smarter than them, so they have more Authority. But what if the child is already stronger and more capable than their parents so they have no reason whatsoever to evade them.
But what if we're Human-Beeings?
There's a classic Twilight Zone episode that explores that exact plot and is maybe one of the best of the entire franchise. It's called "It's a Good Life" and it's damn excellent.
I was excited for Brightburn, but the movie was a disappointment. Then in the end credits they added a newspaper segment that mentioned other bad guys, like a bad guy Justice League, and against my own better judgment I felt excited again. Clearly, I'm not good at learning my lesson the first time.
Apparently this is in the same universe as "Super!" Which you should watch if you haven"t already.
My favorite of the "death is not permanent" lines in all of comics was this short bit from one of the X-Men books years ago. Cyclops: Jean's dead. Emma: That'll take.
The reason lines like that annoy me is that Jean Grey has a reputation for it that doesn't match reality. She's known for coming back from the dead, when, among the X-Men, she's the one who stays dead the longest! She was dead for like 14 years because people kept thinking "oh, you can't bring Jean back, she always comes back."
You want to talk about people who come back from the dead all the time, there's pretty much every single other member of the X-Men, to the point Jonathan Hickman baked resurrection into the setting in his ongoing retool of the franchise! Cyclops himself has died and come back more times and with more frequency. And that's not even getting into all the times Xavier has died and come back.
The one thing I couldn’t stop thinking when watching Brightburn is that if one valid interpretation of Superman is an allegory of a refugee becoming a part of and improving the society that takes them in, then the analogous interpretation of Brightburn is an allegory of an immigrant coming to take from and replace the society that adopts them, like the parasite wasps in the wasp story the kid tells at the beginning. Like you said, I don’t “immigrants bad” was the intended message of the movie, especially since this is the unconscious societal fear behind pretty much every story of an evil invading force, but part of me finds that even more off putting. Also, at the end they have an Alex Jones parody who correctly deduces that an alien invasion is going on while being dismissed by everyone as a crackpot, which is meant to be a joke, but to me it almost feels like a lampshade of the political alignment of the film to me.
well said
Or a Colonizer. Like a W.A.S.P. !!!!!!!
Marksmen16 Oh yeah, that’s an interesting take. I hadn’t thought of that.
Ender Shepard what is your channel banner from
Moore's Miracleman is an interesting take on "What if Bad Superman", it ends with the titular hero "saving" humanity by essentially ruling over it through benign dictat. The implication is that if a creature with Superman's power existed and set out to fix everything wrong with the world, humankind would inevitably become subsurvient to them regardless of noble intent. Ultimately we get a golden age of peace at the expense of surrendering free will to a God-like being.
No mention of "Chronicle"??
Granted, it's not an outright deconstruction, but I don't think it ever claimed to be.
And it still managed to get a hell of a lot closer to a meta-deconstruction of superhero/villain archetypes than anything Snider ever made.
I think One Punch man does some interesting deconstruction of a Superman like character. In the off chance you see this comment. Haha
Soyborne. Born, made, and undone by the soy. I like the writing. I read the manga and I think the story is really fun. Maybe because the art is much better.
I enjoyed Brightburn overall, it was a serviceable "what if Superman, but bad!?" horror movie, but it also set up a lot of interesting turns that it just... completely failed to follow. The wasp vs bee exposition, the buzzing when he uses his super speed or is hearing the ship, I was really hoping they pulled out some kind of "this apparent human form is a larval stage" twist, and just.... nope. It's a real shame, they could have done something more.
I did enjoy The Boys, but I recognize it's not for everyone.
There was actually a story in a DC comics horror anthology (parody) that was pretty much the same plot. Was printed a few years before this movie if I recall.
It involved a slightly older Kal-el landing on Earth and terrorizing Ma Kent.
Edit: Found it DC House of Horror #1.
I really like the content you make!
@@customercareskeleton thank you
Self-reflection? Yeah, that's something we Americans aren't really good at.
Not from the media I see. Honestly it's everywhere.
The most dreadful outcome of this juvenile (and as you succinctly put it, "edgy") over-indulgence in postmodernist deconstruction of our heroes is the death of hope.
Superman, above all costumed heroes, is meant to instill hope in the human race.
A belief that we can be more than we are - that we are worth saving. (The parallels to Christ are long-standing and well-documented.) Much as we are loathe to admit it, human beings need examples of righteousness to follow - and when all we see is the opposite, our behaviour reflects it.
The tiresome postmodern need to discover the dark side of everything robs us of the hope that we need to live.
The hope that we're more than the smartest beast. The hope that we can create a better future.
Without that, we might as well join our four-legged companions in the dirt.
Kurt Riley Wise words to live by, especially in these tough times, it's important to never give up on hope or your fellow man, even with the odds stacked against you, we need to help, act, and support each other out of empathy and kindness. Also, I hope you're having a nice day.
Peter McAulay Thank you! I hope you’re having a splendid day, as well. All my best to you and yours!
You say that as if the acceptance that hope is a comforting illusion is ultimately a bad thing and that we should not come to our senses regarding that issue.
While I agree that we shouldnt go out of our way to make a shitty world shittier for everyone else, we should never fool ourselves into believing that we can ever fix the problems that plague our every moment of awakened, conscious existence. We are, in the end, inevitably destined to die on a dying planet in a dying universe, a faded footnote forgotten to the forces of time, entropy, and chaos, and any attempt to delay that fate, much less overcome it, is mere folly.
Thats why dark interpretations of traditionally inspiring and encouraging genres dont bother me, because they are, by design, intentionally or not, a means to bring sentient beings such as ourselves a closer face-to-face look with our own fragile mortality and the awareness that anything, anywhere could take it away from us at any moment. The sooner we make peace with that and accept our fate with calm acknowledgement, the better.
Kurt Riley Thank you for replying to me and all the best to you too!
IaMaPh1991 All I was trying to say, is that hope is an important part of life, along with empathy and kindness. I also agree that you can't fix all the wrongdoings in the world, I wasn't trying to enforce a "Wait for the problems to go away"-type mentality, and I'm sorry if I sounded like a naive idiot, what I was meaning to say, is that it is important to be hopeful and inspire others, but not blindly and I agree that dark interpretations, if it's done well, with good writing and valid points to make, it can turn out pretty good. But I disagree strongly with the "destined to die" comment, while none of us have a lot of time on Earth, I would rather have it that we all go out knowing that we did something to make a everyone's lives better, no matter how small, than die with a million regrets. It's not about how much time we have, it's what we choose to do with it. And one more thing, are you having a good day?
I thought the Tv show the boys had more tact. ‘It was better than the comic’ is not a take I usually have, but it’s actually great.
I am so unbelievably disappointed in brightburn. I was hoping they’d go all in on deconstructing the Superman Jesus metaphors...like I thought the writers would try to specify that Brandon could have gone either way, but the way that his family treated him like Jesus and his classmates treated him like a monster, he could have still turned bad purely by choice.
Guess that would have been too intelligent for them.
"Some postmodern superhero stories were thoughtful where some other were... The Boys."
Have a like.
The boys is an example of comic book adaption for which we should be really grateful that it isn’t "more like the source material", because the source material is mostly macho, homophobic and sexist "humor" mixed in with incredibly dislikable, brutal, vulgar main characters.
"Hey, I'm not going to do this thing, so don't ask, OK?"
HEY DO THIS THING
Wow, I've never been more at peace with blocking a lot of people.
This was all part of your diabolical plan wasn't it? XD
The saying used to be "only Bucky stays dead". Can't use that anymore.
*Edgy Superman deconstructionists* are literally like *Lex Luthor.*
They don't try to understand the character or why people love him, so they attempt to *obliterate* him by any means necessary.
The thought of *reconstruction and improvement* never enters their minds, because they're too cynical/belligerent/soulless to get a feel for what the character *about.* And he is all about *the Power of Human Good and Decency.*
Also thank you for using Fleischer Bros Superman at the end. Truly one of the best versions *and* my favourite Superman theme tune. 😉
You threw a lot of shade at 'The Boys' and you obviously don't want to make a whole video about it, but would you mind quickly telling me what it is about it that triggers this level of apparent disgust for it.
No.
@@renegadecut9875 Fair enough. I really enjoy your content btw, I've only just found it and I've been watching the back catalog on it all week.
While the show is much, much better than the comic and actually feels like it's saying something, the comic is still just violence and obscenity for the sake of violence and obscenity.
Not even asking for an opinion but you should check it out.
@@diesenutss You can say that again. The comics are Garth Ennis in full edgelord mode. I was very reluctant to watch 'The Boys' for that exact reason. I read the first few issues when it came out and it has left a bad taste in my mouth ever since. So I was actually quite positively surprised by the show when I did start to watch it.
People that deconstruct Superman generally don't understand him as character and think that he is uninteresting.
Exactly. Zach Snyder nearly destroyed him with Mos and then crippled the IP and Cavills career with BvS.. and I like both movies.
I liked Brightburn but that Brandon's start of evil was started by his ship and he was basically biologically programmed to go bad and start killing people was a bad idea. The whole point of Superman's character is that anyone, raised by loving parents and taught to do good, can become a model member of society. It seemed to me that the best way to tackle what Brightburn tried to do would be to flip the whole origin on its script by having Brandon's parents be awful and abusive, since the Kents' parenting of Clark Kent is probably the impetus by which he becomes a superhero anyway.
I was still dying to watch Brightburn despite the tired notion of an "evil Superman," simply because it was the first real live-action attempt to do so and at least unlike the DCEU dreck, it was an original concept, so it wasn't really harmful to my boy Superman. I do hate this current trend of "contrarianism for the sake of contrarianism," for so many reasons, but not the least of which is that I'm fucking sick and tired of Superman having to be a bad guy in so many media. It's like WB/DC is afraid of letting Superman actually be superheroic. But like I said, I was okay with Brightburn doing it since at least it was an original property.
Honestly the part in one of the trailers when the woman gets glass stuck in her eyes was enough to convince me not to watch this movie. I can't stand that kind of stuff!
Yeah, it wasn't fun to watch.
A little bit of torture porn to distract from a bland movie
Then if you watch John Wick 3, look away during the scene where he is slowly pushing a knife towards a dude's eye. You think they're not gonna show it but then they just fuckin do.
I think that Mark Waid's "Irredeemable" series did a much better job of exploring the idea of an evil Superman analogue.
The authority is a fantastic comic that needs to be adapted.
I'm sort of with you. It really depends on the era being adapted. And if we can get Ellis to do the screenplay.
Which run...? I haven't read any other than a few sections of the one by Mark Millar (did he, Ellis, and Morrison all work on it?) and that comic made me want to puke and reject the bullsh*t that is nihilistic deconstructionism altogether. Kind of weird that it was written by the same guy who wrote Red Son, which I actually liked a lot.
@@thedorkone1516 I was going to say the ones Warren Ellis ones. After he left...ehh...
That's the thing, Brightburn COULD have been so interesting from the perspective of "what would happen if we gave a hormonal boy the power to do whatever he wanted". Have him be a normal kid no "genetically encoded malice" he's a kid that can suddenly get away with everything he ever wanted. Does he start but making small stuff at first, stealing things, seeing what he could get away with as he gets bolder and bolder? Does he have conflict with the morals instilled with him so that even when he's doing bad things he has some degree of guilt or pathos over his actions? Does his connection to the important people to his life like his family ground him or even potentially act as the forces that keep him human or end up driving him down a darker path?
Nope none of that! It was kid with power bad cause power bad and also some uncomfortable subtext borderline text on genetic determinism.
Aww man... I was waiting for an analysis of The Boys from you... sigh...
It’s just “people with powers are assholes”, it really doesn’t have anything clever to say. It had potential tho.
They did bring up the topic that not all superheroes are bad though. There are two story arcs that involves two supers with a conscience, and even an arc about facing the consequences of your actions. There is even some potential in exploring something else that was sort of hinted at all throughout season one.
It isn't really supers are "assholes" but more that they are flawed human beings, just like everyone else. Also, the underlying theme is definitely about corporate businesses ruining people's lives.
@@blahblahmanist when I think about it you could replace the supers in The Boys with billionaire/hollywood stars and it'd be the same story. I mean thats kinda what I think the story touched on in terms of social critique but I dont think it does anything unique by giving some characters superpowers.
@@poego6045 At least Homelander is a significantly more interesting take on evil-Superman than Brightburn.
@@poego6045 there is still room for that, we are getting a second season, for now it was one of the best series of 2019 imho, and I am glad that they reworked the characters and themes, gave everything more dimension
Did you see James Gunn's "Super?" I found that to be a much better deconstruction of the concept and genre. Not perfect, but pretty good.
If you want to see a movie/comic that is unintentionally one of the greatest deconstructions of the entire concept of superpowers, I'd recommend you watch/read (though read before watch) the anime and manga classic Akira. Akira calls into question whether or not humans can handle superpowers at all, and explores what would happen if an average person with vices and a chip on his shoulder got superpowers.
Thank you for the ending credits and reminding me that my brother has DVDs of the Max Fleischer cartoons. It has been a really long time since I watched them. I think I was in school or it was on Television while I was being babysat.
When I furst saw the trailer for Man of Steel, I got excited because it looked as though it was going to explore the morality of how Superman ought to use his power or whether he should, but Kevin Costner's opposition to using them was poorly explained and just seemed silly. Batman made some more interesting points about the issue in Batman vs Superman, but his concerns were portrayed as misguided and he ultimately decided Superman was OK because his mother's name was Martha.
Because he's human..
Its so funny that you bring this up.
Last night a few friends and I had a a very long discussion about postmodernism while on some particularly potent psychedelics.
And I we came to the conclusion that any asshole with a philips head and 15 minutes can take something apart and scatter its pieces everywhere.
I am so unbeleiveably bored with this hackneyed approach and people pretending its clever.
Youre absolutely right when you say its nothing but trading,in the inagery and mythology.
that little motor i pilled out of an old vcr is techicly a motor i guess, but its not doing a whole lot of motoring. It just sots there on my coffee table collecting dust. Novel only fpr what it is the appearance of.
Any asshole with with a philips head and 15 minutes can take something apart. But what can you put back together.
I contend it might be time for another romantic revival.
(watch the boys. its honestly worth Garth Ennising all over the place for Starlight as a character.)
i knew brightburn was going to be disappointing the second i saw the first trailer. a boy having the idea of his origins being completely flipped on its head, but remaining good and kindhearted and willing to help everyone around him despite feeling and knowing he is wielding incredible power is much more of revolutionary idea than a boy realizing he has incredible power and deciding to go off the deep end/and or using it for their benefit only. we already see the second on a regular basis, it's not as interesting.
I would be really interested in your take on "Super", the Rainn Wilson movie (I guess that one is ALSO James Gunn, but still...)
Its much better, if you have a taste for violent films
I expected it to be mentioned in this video, to be honest.
The girl typing her report is using comic sans? F!
In fairness I think I did that once when I was a kid too.
Typing in Comic Sans is actually a good way to make your brain stop focusing on formatting at the expense of writing.
Inuyashiki the last hero, makes an attempt to deconstruct what a human would do with superpower.
An old man and a schoolboy are both turned into weaponized super-robots by an alien force.
One deals with the fear of no longer being human by saving lives, the other by killing.
The anime is worth a watch.
An interesting thing about The Authority is that the first run by Warren Ellis, while it pushed some boundaries as far as the amount of destruction portrayed, really wasn't trying to be post-modern. Ellis has even said that he was just trying to do a big summer action movie comic. It was Mark Millar who brought in the kinda deconstructionist and satirical elements...portraying the characters as violent jerks, having them fight parodies of Marvel superheroes, having the UN /G-8 send in a monster/assassin to deal with the team cuz they kept violating international law etc. Other writers didn't really seem to know where to go from that though.
One comic I think it's worth checking out is the Squadron Supreme mini-series from the mid-80's written by Mark Gruenwald. The heroes ( who are loose parodies/homages of the Justice League) in order to fix their world decide to more or less take it over. Their intentions are good, but in the end, a lot of their plans end up backfiring. What's interesting is that the comic really does try to deal with the moral and political implications of their actions.
Honestly to me a more interesting "What if superman but..." would be one where it's a flawed, but well meaning person, compared to what Superman... I want to say "Is", but sometimes it feels like "was". Truly, completely Good.
A flawed person who tries to grapple with immense power, they start with trying to be a superhero but end up worrying if they do more harm then good. But also worry that, if they have the power to do something but don't for fear of what might happen, are they letting bad things happen? There are so many angles to take it.
Superman can be such an interesting character, and I really hate that a lot of folks seem to think he's boring. There are heroes I prefer (Spiderman, namely, both Peter and Miles, because they're often the kind of flawed-but-genuinely-good kind of character I like), but Superman is a unique character due to his position as a figure in culture, at least western culture.
Superman isn't necessarily boring, but a lot of the time I've heard that he is. He can be interesting- really, he shouldn't be completely convinced that he's always doing the right thing, he should have some doubt in him- but I haven't seen that explored very much compared to him being a flat Jesus figure for the other characters to bounce off of.
@@cadencenavigator958 To me, the versions of Superman that have been the most interesting are the version where he is always right. "All-Star Superman" and "What's Wrong With Truth Justice and the American Way?" come to mind
Honestly the Boys is pretty decent, certainly much better than it's source material. It does a decent job of tackling the problems with the idea of super heroes whilst tackling their media monopoly in our current world. It's a little weird coming from amazon though...
the only superhero i'm interested seeing on the big screen these days is zombie!Lenin
muust crush capitalism!
In all honesty, I am sick and tired of the concept of evil Superman! Why do people think it's interesting for Superman to be evil rather than just being good? Superman has shown that good people can have great power, and use it to help people, rather than hurt or oppress. What is wrong with Superman just being a good man? I would say that Superman being evil is more terrifying than interesting. I prefer Superman being good.
The Boys’ TV Show is so much better than the comics though, it’s really good
I genuinely enjoyed The Boys. It had a lot of issues, but Homelander felt less like "bad superman" and more like the totality of unchecked power and privilege under capitalism. The collectivism of those who were hurt by that privilege, both super and powerless, was what made it stand apart to me.
I do agree that Brightburn is a missed opportunity in some ways, but my reading of the film is that it's a commentary on *certain aspects* of masculinity in the modern world. Brandon Breyer was raised with the preconceived notions that he was born special and superior to others, and the messages of the Ship can be analogous to radicalization, or at least that's how I read it, rather than it being analogous of biological determinism. It's "What if Superman was an incel" basically. I think if they casted the kids slightly older, like 15-16 instead of 12-13, I think it would've worked better. Like they make a big point that he feels entitled to have the girl he has a crush on, and that he lashes out with violence when he doesn't get what he wants.
I honestly don’t hate these deconstructions or edgy ways to handle the likes of Superman Or should I say, Clark.
Because as more of these kinds of stories and characters come & go. This sea of black has a glowing blue pearl that shines brightly even to this day.
That pearl is Clark Kent, not the last son of krypton or the most powerful hero of earth (Even though that title belongs to Martian Manhunter or Flash) But simply the son of farmers in Kansas, Jonathan and Martha Kent.
There is something unique and endearing about a wholesome farm kid who dreams about becoming a superhero, simply because its right and he wants too. No parental death, no accident or some giant destiny form the universe. Just a man and his dream.
His values and personality can be ridicule and mocked by all. Which is endearing with age! He wishes to do good for the world despite the constant evil or bitterness around him. He carries the responsibility of his powers and faces the consequences (Something Homelander could not), he hears the world’s suffering but won’t give up (Plutonian could not) and he always strives to be the best we can be even after so much heartache through his failures or mistakes (Dr Manhattan couldn’t care less).
And all of that can be represented in the adventures Clark endures, But it already has a form.
Lex Luther, a self made human whose ego and jealousy overshadows his ability to actually save humanity. Always looking for a way to step on values Superman shares to stay stubborn to his own perspective. Something we can relate to everyday.
*”If it wasn’t for you! I would’ve saved the world!”*
*”If it really mattered to you Luther. You could’ve saved the world years ago.”*
*“...Your right...”*
*-All Star Superman.*
We may mock him, but Superman is needed now more than ever. Show we can do better and that we can be better.
If you want to dive into a production that does a great job of deconstructing the tropes and themes of the super-hero genre you should dissect Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along-Blog. Not only is it a great musical with a tight narrative, it flips many of the genre's themes is a unique way.
I haven't read The Boys but I kind of love the show. It isn't very thought-provoking and it's intentionally over the top, usually for the sake of dark humor and there is a bit of that "edgy for the sake of edgy" but the superheroes being bad has a point to it. It's a commentary is on corrupt power systems and how even those in power who don't do anything wrong are still complicit in the wrongdoings of others. It's also about the futility of revenge to a lesser extent. I'm sure it's not for everyone and I'm not going to act like it's incredibly deep but it's entertaining and there is a very clear point being made. You could argue about whether the point being made is obvious or problematic but it certainly isn't completely hollow.
I honestly think the reason the TV version of The Boys is better than the comics version, and more mature, is because it realizes this, and doesn't go for the postmodernist tack at all; it's a deconstruction, but it's a very modernist deconstruction. The issue isn't that superpowers exist, it's that they don't belong to the right people.
Which honestly makes it a whole lot better, because that allows an examination of how power actually corrupts people while avoiding a lot of Ennis' fundamental meanness and hypocrisy. Homelander isn't Bad Superman, but a bad man with Superman-like powers, and that makes him an intimidating and often horrifying villain, because he's a natural extension of what would happen if a hypocritical religious zealot got superpowers and decided be a "hero" to push his agenda. It doesn't look down on the heroic impulse itself; it's telling that one of the big character moments is Hughie calling out Butcher's own zealotry as being exactly like Homelander's, and that he'd be the same way - he just happened to have a focus for his hatred that happened to be pointing at another manchild.
Even Snyder's Superman was too evil (at least too far from benevolent) when they made him destroy so much cityscape and kill in anger. They didn't make much of his character, or develop his dad enough to feel the gravity of his death. Though I guess that's typical Snyder, no depth, all boom boom.
Im currently writing a screenplay featuring Nightwing with the attempt at deconstructing Batman worship and showing him as an irresponsible rich guy wrapped up in his own problems and breaking the lives of those closest to him, including the child he adopted and brainwashed into a child soldier
I'm curious about his thoughts on Chronicle with this lens.
Chronicle is great because the kids are granted their powers at the same time in the same way, and it all coms down to how they choose to use them from that point on. No hogwash about genetic determinism and the like and the one that opts for the might makes right path is clearly the villain by the end. But I'm not so sure it is much of a deconstruction of what a super hero movie is as much as how one is told, or can be told.
I remember sitting through the inane slog that was Brightburn, thinking about what I would change about the script to make it all worthwhile, and I just ended up with the plot to "Chronicle".
I hope the animated version of Red Son does the story justice. Superman but Communist. He's still a good man, but upholding Soviet ideology instead of Capitalism. He's conflicted, he does morally questionable things, and [spoilers] eventually realizes that the world would be better off without an invulnerable demi-god hovering over it. He lets Lex become the hero he always could have been. [/spoilers]
I absolutely hated The Boys comic back in the day. Never finished it due to its nastiness and bro-dog lazy humor. Imagine my surprise when the show turned out really good by actually giving all the characters three dimensions. However, i can't say that it offers the postmodernism one might want. And it's still quite nasty. Just not shit-nasty like Garth Ennis' source material.
I dont think most writers of comic related media go about with the intention of deconstructing the mediim, rather they ask a simple question "like what if superman went bad?" And the deconstruction may or may not emerge from such an exploration.
Even watchmen can be some upped by asking "what sort of people would dress up and play super hero/villain?" The invariable answer is nutters.
Check out the Marvel anti-superhero comics "Ruins". It's a dark version of the Avengers, plus more.
Personally, my favorite is Johnny Blaze (Ghost Rider) pouring gasoline on his head, igniting it, and speeding through the desert at night for his last stunt.
Chronicle was definitely a better movie.
So the weird part about Brightburn is DC comics literally published the idea in 2018s horror anthology .
Well, sometimes you’ll get a great deconstruction of a genre. Then other times you’ll get Funny Games. And yeah, Funny Games is an awful deconstruction movie.
Chronicle tried to make a point about some people with powers using them for good and some using them for bad based on how the world treats them but fell apart because the "bad" one was such a whiny turd I didn't care.
welp back too Superman:Red Son i guess lol
Thank you for the work you do.
What about Mystery Men? I'm curious to hear what you think.
The best “Evil Superman” hands down is Homelander from The Boys . Absolutely brilliantly written character .
Apart from the biological determinism and the fact that the kid never questions what he's doing and goes full on murder mode without blinking or questioning himself (he never fights the urge, he just is "I wanna kill this person so that's what I'll do"), is that the movie also covers inc*ls. His crush seems to be interested but then he becomes super stalkery and creepy, breaks into her home, acts menacingly, breaks her hand while threatening her and then kills her mom. All of this because she didn't like being stalked. The movie doesn't really criticise this, it just goes "Well, this is what happens when boys/men want a girl and she defies him" and that's about all they have to say. The movie and characters never once engage in a conversation about this, it's just seen as a natural result of an infatuated boy. The girl, who was interested as first, is creeped out by his possessive behaviour and the movie's response is to go full inc*l terrorist and have him kill people.
The fact that this behaviour is in the movie and not engaged with at all apart from "this is normal and happens when girls/women ignore men" and "oh, so scary" with no challenge, conversation or exploration of the underlying systems just serves to further strengthen the biological determinism, as it simply brakes down to: boys will be boys, which means violent and angry, so better give them what they want.
I wonder what he'd say about Invincible. Although I found it enjoyable for similar reasons to The Boys but I can see that The Boys definitely does provoke a much different feeling, but at least I think that the show is much better at deconstructing some ideas than the comic.
I tried to watch The boys exactly because I expected it to be a clever twist on the genre. And even though there are a couple of clever ideas in the premise, after watching the first episode I understand that they were more interested in gore and action rather than themes.
Great video! I was wondering one thing, as your definition of post-modernism is one of the best i’ve ever seen before. I’ve usually struggled to describe post-modernism to others but you have done so really well here and I was wondering how you got at your definition. Did you read it in a book or come up with it on your own? I’m always looking for further reading material
The real postmodernism is that villain aren’t bad people there just lost and scared
nice watch. I saw Brightburn in a mostly empty theater. it was empty until a father and daughter walked in 20 minutes into the movie. I hated the film. slow, uninteresting, the little kid was a terrible, creepy brat. Elizabeth banks' acting nearly saved the experience for me, but not really. the movie had no real message imo, it had no actual conclusion and it was just a big waste of time. and it flopped accordingly.
I'm kinda done with most superhero movies, shows, ect. but I do enjoy The Boys.
Thank you! You pretty much pinpointed my absolute problems with these supposed deconstructions of the superhero genre. It just boils down to "What if this Superman like character was really an asshole!" Wow so original dudes. But yeah that's basically the point of The Boys & that apparently if people in our world had powers they would for sure be completely evil. Like it basically gives big middle finger to not only Superman, and Captain America but also X-Men, and kind of justifies the anti-mutant people in XMen. But the thing is we don't know how people who be if they had powers. They prob wouldn't be full on saints but I doubt they would be 1 dimensional evil shit Lords either. I felt like a pretty decent but still flawed deconstruction of superheroes happened in the show The Misfits. It wasn't perfect but it didn't make me wanna scream til I bled like the little I saw of The Boys. Also The Tick is the absolute best deconstruction of the superhero genre ever, goodbye...
I would put brightburn in my carousel of horror movies to show friends, but I'd also say your critique is valid. It doesn't say much about the genre. However, it's an entertaining addition to said genre
This is literally the best definition of postmodernism I have ever seen.
Im new to your channel and haven't gone through your back catalogue, but have you seen or talked about "Chronicle" the josh trank movie?
Nope.
@@renegadecut9875 its a pretty decent movie, It's pretty much a what if story, with 3 supermen: -one who was brought up in a toxic environment, -one brought up in a "perfect" environment like the traditional depiction, -and one brought up to be kind of apathetic and and undriven (at first)
It's also very well acted, and competently directed.
Superhero deconstructions began in the '80s with "Watchmen" and "Batman the Dark Knight Returns" as an industry-wide cartoonists' rebellion against the Comics Code Authority censorship of the '50s and '60s and following underground comix and '70s- '80s action, horror, mystery and martial arts movies influence as more "realistic" and "socially relevant". Later comics and movies "followed the leader," without understanding the deep philosophy and political satire of the first two or the movie genres cited. Postmodernism is a complex philosophy, most easily understood by the average person as "everything's relative" in politics, religion and science, comically distorted skyscrapers and Nineties Antiheroes in comic book media. Watergate and Vietnam made many people, including cartoonists and comics fans, cynical, hence the "What if Superman was evil?" plot in "Brightburn," because they cannot believe Superman's omnipotence, ideal celibate hero behavior and sentimentality. An alien farmer hiding his godlike powers from a bunch of nosy reporters for 85 years with glasses seems quite implausible. Lots of action movies unfairly stereotype wealthy, high-status foreign people as villains. Science fiction and horror both share "beware the superhuman" plots, which are common in Capepunk, the superhero subgenre "Brightburn," "Watchmen," "Dark Knight Returns," "Kick Ass," "The Joker" and "The Boys" all belong to. This trope dates from the Ring of Gyges myth, Jekyll and Hyde and the Invisible Man.
I agree that brightburn was more of a jump scare movie that what we wanted
A "transgression" can best describe most modern films attempting a literal deconstruction when all they desire is a rehash of the old under a new guise instead of anything structurally significant.
Everyone should watch Megamind
I was worried for The Boys for the exact reason but I think it surprised me and there are other characters in it to counter balance.
I thought Leon would actually enjoy The Boys show, given how radically different from the source material the show actually is. I mean, tha show is a bit all over the place with the messaging and whitewashes the C.I.A. , but overall is WAY better than most superhero fiction.
I would cite the Injustice comics as a good example of superhero deconstruction. A lot of that centers around authority and how absolute power corrupts absolutely. It starts with Superman snapping just once, and then it's all downhill from there. Kind of predictable, but very interesting -- Superman has a very high degree of power (although he isn't physically infallible), and the comic shows just how quickly that can go wrong. Moreover, it shows how easily and *willingly* it can go wrong; it's alluded to/mentioned throughout Injustice 1 and 2 that there are a lot of people who support Superman's rampant totalitarianism. We have to be ever-vigilant to be skeptical of even the most trusted authority, even the authority that wears red, blue, and yellow, and has an S on his chest.
Love this channel
11:03
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS oh my god I have problems putting it into words but this has been a super serious problem in Blizzard writing in the past few years that it makes me want to pull my hair out, like... what's the point of writing them as bad? "Oh look the light aligned people can do bad too!" Kay? Why not do that NOT with a race of people literally being hunted for over ten thousand years and literally had to fake their extinction and instead one of the other races of people you just position as good and holy and light without critique??
Oi.
(I will never not be pissed off at Blizzard turning Yrel into a fucking genocider and if I ever meet the person who made that decision... oh body you're going down.)
Not sure anyone will answer but does Invincible fall in the Boys camp or the Watchmen one?
Another fantastic video. Thanks for your work.
I would love a story about deconstruction of the deconstruction of good people (in this case Super Heros). You change the view to some people living in a "Superman" world and there cynical behavior towards him. But Superman is in reality actually just a good guy. Those normal people are actually terrible them self and are just projecting there own self into him. If they are bad people trying to act good, then Supermen also is just acting.
Brightburn has nothing to say... My Thought exactly... Great Essay...
Have you watched the new version of the Tick on Amazon? I think that has some of what you are looking for.
We are not Bees...But are we.....LOBSTERS!!!!!!!!!
I saw one episode of The Boys, it was fine, but I'm not exactly compelled to continue watching. What I don't get is why Amazon even made this show when they already had a perfectly good superhero deconstruction show - The Tick! It has an interesting take on Superman with Superian, and it goes beyond the fact that his only weakness is the chemical element Bismuth, which I personally find hilarious.
Also, Legion - particularly season 2.
I kept expecting brightburn to actually be about something right until the end, like they would reveal that his actions were alien and not evil.
This doubled the disappointment.