Why Navy Enigma was Different w/ James Grime

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 249

  • @unvergebeneid
    @unvergebeneid หลายเดือนก่อน +262

    So if I'm ever drafted into a war I don't care for, I'll be writing "nothing to report" to my command every day and the enemy will leave me alone. Brilliant survival strategy! 😄

    • @jursamaj
      @jursamaj หลายเดือนก่อน +16

      Cute, but modern encryption is totally different.

    • @DanielHarveyDyer
      @DanielHarveyDyer หลายเดือนก่อน +52

      My favourite story is the guy was asked to send a fake message, and decided to just press L like 200 times and the code breakers immediately saw the message and were like 'there is no L anywhere in this message, maybe the plaintext is all Ls' and solved the settings basically straight away

    • @harriehausenman8623
      @harriehausenman8623 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      WHOA! That's some high-level applied game-theory 🧐

    • @88porpoise
      @88porpoise หลายเดือนก่อน +30

      ​@@DanielHarveyDyerIn general the inability of a letter to be encoded as itself was a big weakness of the Enigma

    • @musiqtee
      @musiqtee หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @OP …and from the process of sending that same message every day, the enemy will also crack the cipher…? 😅

  • @AMD7027
    @AMD7027 หลายเดือนก่อน +54

    What’s missed here is that the enigmas were different for a very practical reason. That being that army units sent multiple messages a day however, naval ships at most sent very few messages a day because they had to be quiet because every message you allows for direction finding apparatus technologies to locate your ship, submarine etc. so individual fleet units sent very few messages a day. The Navy operators had more time for a more cumbersome system because they weren’t having continually do this for two or three messages an hour or a daily situation report they could in fact say “we are in this sector this is what we’re seeing” and that would be it. They were very short messages in general.

    • @iwikal
      @iwikal หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      I was imagining that at least part of the reason the navy had additional equipment like the three extra wheels to choose from, the big codebooks etc, was that weight isn't as much of a limiting factor on a ship. Whereas the army potentially had to have a method that could be used in lightweight mobile command posts that could be easily set up or moved at a moment's notice, perhaps even by foot if need be. But your idea makes sense.

    • @20chocsaday
      @20chocsaday 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      The contents might be,
      Ship A position A observed X, leaving out the words "ship position observed". That is padding you don't need.

    • @robertpopa2628
      @robertpopa2628 12 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      This was not available until later in the war. One of the latest fat electrician vids covers it a bit,
      th-cam.com/video/-BFVAZYGQCU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=_ZWq9-geNT2mKLGO

  • @richardslater677
    @richardslater677 หลายเดือนก่อน +28

    Alan Turing was of course a genius and played a huge part in Bletchley but he wasn’t the only one. His story takes more prominence probably because of his situation and suicide after the war but there were others, particularly Gordon Welchman who played just as crucial a role in deciphering but his story is relatively unknown.

    • @screwdriver222
      @screwdriver222 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      As you say there were others who played a part. I would like mention Tommy Flowers while not a code breaker per sey built the Colossus and subsequent machines.

    • @RWBHere
      @RWBHere หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Van Neumann was another important character.

    • @richardsinger01
      @richardsinger01 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      Welchman's biggest contribution was probably (radio) traffic analysis, which aided the prediction of enemy intentions without needing to decipher any messages at all. He also introduced an important modification to the bombe machine that speeded up encryption significantly.

    • @isilder
      @isilder หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Professor Brinley Newton-John was there, being MI5 and fluent in Deutch, he was working on the Deutch language side of the decoding, as well as interrogating the captured Rudolf Hess, and his daughters would go on to be famous too, eg Olivia Newton John of movies Grease and Zanadu, and their songs and other songs too.

    • @SetemkiaFawn
      @SetemkiaFawn 25 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      ​@@RWBHereUnfortunately, the information you provide is incorrect. John von Neumann was not directly involved in breaking the enigma at any point. He had previously done theoretical work that provided part of the framework upon which Turing was working. But Turing was amazing in that he had a phenomenal ability to pick out patterns in all of these text messages. And his ability to pick out and recognize and then match patterns was a significant aspect of Turing's work.

  • @ketsuekikumori9145
    @ketsuekikumori9145 หลายเดือนก่อน +57

    10:13: I love how both of them picked "random" letters and inadvertently spelled out words (in the case of wam, more of an onomatopoeia word), proof that humans are not good at randomness. Hence why for cryptographic procedures, we use things like background radiation, videos of lava lamps (cloudflare famously uses this), etc.

    • @Thrustmaster64
      @Thrustmaster64 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I mean, that could also just mean that a significant frcaction of 3-letter grams are also words, thus making it likely you'd pick words. (Not arguing we aren't trash at randomness tho, we totally are.)

    • @20chocsaday
      @20chocsaday 27 วันที่ผ่านมา

      These were sent in groups of 5 letters, were they not.

    • @TheTonyMcD
      @TheTonyMcD 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

      I'm not really sure that is a good proof of why humans are bad at randomness. True randomness will often contain coherent messages. If you tasked humans to randomly choose a string of letters, you will get letters that specifically do not make an actual word far, far more often than a truly random process would. Because picking b, then o, then m, then b, it just doesn't feel random to a human.

  • @meh5647
    @meh5647 หลายเดือนก่อน +54

    Legendary collab!

  • @LMB222
    @LMB222 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    I read the memoires of one of the Polish codebreakers. It was so "out there" that I initially found it hard to believe (but I do now).
    The codebreakers used a sort of early "social engineering". It wasn't "heil hi***er", because Enigma predates the infamous Bavarian, but "wer, was, wo", German for "who, what, where".
    They assumed that Germans, for a test message, would use a question.
    Why? I don't know, I wasn't educated in a German high school, unlike the codebreakers.

  • @BetweenTheBorders
    @BetweenTheBorders หลายเดือนก่อน +21

    If you noted this, I must've missed it. The Ringstellung isn't the initial setting of the wheels, it's the relative position of the letter to the wiring. You can turn the ring so that the letters signify a completely different wiring combination, as well as the notch for incrementing the next wheel being at a different location.

    • @Alfred-Neuman
      @Alfred-Neuman หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Yeah bro that shit is too complicated...
      Why were they not just using Telegram or Signal like everybody else?

    • @NuclearCraftMod
      @NuclearCraftMod หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      What were the wheel settings initialised as before the specific message setting was sent?

    • @BetweenTheBorders
      @BetweenTheBorders หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      ​@@NuclearCraftMod It's been a long time, but I seem to recall the sender selected three letters and sent them plain text. There was a step or two after that to determine the start positions for the message itself.

    • @57thorns
      @57thorns 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

      The ring settings (Ringstellung) are part of the daily code.
      The wheel setting is initalized to the first three letters of the message (send in clear).
      Then the next six letters are decoded, the should be on the form ABCABC is everything is correct.
      Then you set your rings to ABC and decode the rest of your message.
      (The "long time ago" is around 6:10 in the video by the way.)
      edit: As they said in the video, repetition of the three letters for the start setting was dropped in 1940.

    • @JevansUK
      @JevansUK วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@57thorns one 4000 character message (might have been in lorenz cypher) was lost in transmission, the operator reset his machine to the same settings and resent with some errors and some shortening, British got both messages and were able to work out the entire operation of the system

  • @shruggzdastr8-facedclown
    @shruggzdastr8-facedclown หลายเดือนก่อน +15

    I love it when James Grime (and other Numberphilers) do crossovers on other TH-cam math(s)-themed content-creators' channels!!

  • @cheeseparis1
    @cheeseparis1 หลายเดือนก่อน +20

    Thanks, I learned new things. Knew about the weakness but didn't know about the protocol.

  • @CristiNeagu
    @CristiNeagu หลายเดือนก่อน +18

    The Navy Enigma was the same as the Army one (M3) up until October 1941. At that point the Navy added one more rotor to the machine for a total of 4, calling it M4. The first 3 rotors were still selected from the same pool of 8 as on the M3, and the 4th extra rotor was chosen from two special rotors.

    • @johnfox2483
      @johnfox2483 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      As far as I know, this 4th rotor was "reverser". In Army reverser was fixed, in Navy it rotates. In one position it provided the same connection as Army reverser, so they have compatibility when needed.

    • @CristiNeagu
      @CristiNeagu หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      @@johnfox2483 Not quite. The _reflector_ from the M3s was made smaller (thin reflector) and another rotor position was added, with a choice of two (Beta or Gamma). Unlike the first three rotors, the fourth rotor wasn't incrementing. To be honest, I don't know if the M4 was compatible with the M3 or not.

    • @Pippins666
      @Pippins666 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      And - if the message was short only the first rotor was employed, as the rotor clicked round with every character, clicking the 2nd rotor after one revolution...and so on for the other rotors. Only very long (and hence very few) messages were long enough to activate the 4th rotor. So in the main (on the main😊?) the 4th rotor rarely had any significance

    • @CristiNeagu
      @CristiNeagu 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@Pippins666 Not true. The longer the message, the higher the chance it would increment the 4th rotor, but any message of any length can increment the 4th rotor depending on the initial settings.

    • @johnfox2483
      @johnfox2483 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@Pippins666 i have read somewhere, that each rotor had few special notches, which caused next rotor to rotate one position.
      So second rotor rotates few times during one revolution of first rotor.

  • @TheOwlman
    @TheOwlman หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    I can recommend _The Hut 6 Story_ by Gordon Welchman, it includes a lot of material about the people other than Turing. It did cause a bit of a stink when it was first published and really cost Welchman his security clearance after he moved over the pond.

  • @thimowellner7686
    @thimowellner7686 หลายเดือนก่อน +39

    "Are we the baddies?" is a great message to send and decode. :D

    • @toaztelg
      @toaztelg หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      I'm guessing a reference to the Mitchell & Webb skit 😂

    • @jfrederino
      @jfrederino 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Long live the Bumbling Badger of Mediocrity.

  • @luketurner314
    @luketurner314 หลายเดือนก่อน +40

    The Navy were basically using a password manager prefilled with pseudo-randomly generated passwords, handed down from their higher-ups

    • @LMB222
      @LMB222 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      There wasn't anything much better back in the 1920's (yes, enigma predates the Nazis )

  • @nickwalters5380
    @nickwalters5380 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Brilliant video. I'm quite good at maths, post grad in engineering, but don't have a clue about this sort of stuff. Alan was a genius.

    • @Triple_J.1
      @Triple_J.1 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Math is pure logic.
      Code is pure logic.

    • @demonicsquid7217
      @demonicsquid7217 28 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@Triple_J.1 there's also an art to it, the best proofs are also elegant, as is the best code.

  • @DjVortex-w
    @DjVortex-w หลายเดือนก่อน +28

    It's the typical human problem of a layman not trusting the encryption algorithm created by knowledgeable experts and adding additional rules, procedures or conventions on top of it to "improve" it, but often ending up just weakening it significally.
    They did that mistake 80 years ago, and many people are still doing it today.
    Trust the experts, they know more than you. Don't start adding your own rules to the algorithm.

    • @DanielHarveyDyer
      @DanielHarveyDyer หลายเดือนก่อน +18

      I think the most delightful thing about this era of cryptography is that they had the math to do incredible security, but not the portable computing devices to implement it. So every code system is a balance between being robust to codebreaking but also being robust to human nature and large numbers of non expert operators.

    • @2adamast
      @2adamast หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@DanielHarveyDyer Hagelin machines were compact with included printer and manual grid systems gave easy non-sequential encoding

    • @vksasdgaming9472
      @vksasdgaming9472 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I wonder how secure message is if it first "coded" with some easy cipher like pendulum or reverse and then ciphered with actual machine and sent?

  • @swedmiroswedmiro1352
    @swedmiroswedmiro1352 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    You should do a thing on Arne Beurling. The Swedish intelligence service cracked the German code (Siemens & Halske T52 ) machines too and from the material he uncovered Ericsson retro-engineered and manufactured machines to decode the messages.

  • @lare290
    @lare290 หลายเดือนก่อน +19

    i did not expect to hear james grime say "heil hitler" like 20 times in a row.

    • @Nicoder6884
      @Nicoder6884 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I remember seeing James Grime's original enigma-related vide on numberphile and thinking that Hitler's first name was actually "Heil" (I was very young).

    • @demonicsquid7217
      @demonicsquid7217 28 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      A friend's grandfather (ww2 veteran) had a bulldog called Hitler when I was a kid. We'd go round there for lunch on occasion and I never got the joke of him saying, "Heel Hitler!" to the dog until I was much older.

  • @peterjackman1507
    @peterjackman1507 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Great video, you hear a lot about the different procedures but i haven't actually heard them described, and the challenges they caused. Thanks!

  • @kruksog
    @kruksog หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    Super cool to have James join you. I'm sure he appreciates your potential. Either way, good shit. Thank you for making such quality content ❤️

  • @DJTheTrainmanWalker
    @DJTheTrainmanWalker 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Frankly... I find the most irritating thing about the film 'The Imitation Game', was the fact it ignored Turing's family's objections to the verdict of the inquest into his death. They strenuously denied the verdict of 'suicide'.

  • @piotrmarkowicz4838
    @piotrmarkowicz4838 9 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    What British had to do? They had to do second meeting with Poles in 1940 in Paris. Btw. First code broke by the Poles was Kriegsmarine code.

  • @roylamberton9576
    @roylamberton9576 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    The Poles originally created the Bombe, Turing and Welchman, and a host of others improved on it until we had the monster that is in the NSA Museum in DC.

    • @James_Bowie
      @James_Bowie หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Yep, too little credit is given to the Poles.

    • @gowdsake7103
      @gowdsake7103 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      The bombe essentially was 12 enigma in 1 machine using cribs to break the days settings

  • @SaxeGrove
    @SaxeGrove หลายเดือนก่อน

    Very nice to see Dr. Grime again. I met him in Odense, Denmark, a couple of years ago. Very nice bloke, indeed.

  • @iankretschmer559
    @iankretschmer559 หลายเดือนก่อน +21

    But it was neither the endphrase, nor that guy on a lonely island. Mostly it was weatherreports from various known stations that helped. The British could observe the weather themselves and guess the text.

    • @MegaLokopo
      @MegaLokopo หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      It wasn't mostly weather reports, it was everything they could use, and then they brute forced it when computers got fast enough.

    • @f7ff132
      @f7ff132 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      IIRC, weather reports were also used because they all began with "Wetterbericht" (a pretty long word, good for stringmatching) and followed a strict syntax

    • @silentotto5099
      @silentotto5099 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      That's what I remember from my reading on the subject too. One of the reasons that weather reports were so useful is that the same report was sent to each branch of the German military. From what I recall, the Luftwaffe had the most lax encryption protocols and were the easiest to crack. Once that was done, it gave them a route into breaking the Wehrmacht and Kriegsmarine codes even though their encryption protocols were much more stringent.
      So, once again, Goering screwed over Doenitz.

    • @IMBlakeley
      @IMBlakeley หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Been a while since I read 'The Codebreakers' but another I recall would be they'd get the RAF to attack some penny ante weather boat or remote station not normally high up a target list who would then report that they had been attacked.

    • @johnbeauvais3159
      @johnbeauvais3159 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      The guy wasn't on an island, he was stationed in North Africa on the edge of the Great Sand Sea, he was there just in case the Brits pushed a force through the soft desert sand, which was seen as basically impossible already. As I understand it they knew where he was and sent their LRDG patrols around him specifically to keep up the illusion that nobody could come from the Great Sand Sea

  • @Pippins666
    @Pippins666 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Navy vet here. The scene that REALLY got my goat was the one where they worked out where the enemy was - and is right where the allied convoy was about to be - and one of the guys knew his brother was on a destroyer in that convoy, and wanted to warn the convoy. All that HAS to be utter bo££ox! There is no way that any of those data would have been available to code breakers or anybody outside of a select few. He might have known he was on HMS xyz, but not where XYZ was, let alone which convoy he was guarding or where that convoy was. (My aunt knew my father,, her brother, was on HMS Eagle, but not that he left the ship for a medical emergency before she was sunk. The sinking was announced on the news)

  • @57thorns
    @57thorns 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I had to take a break to go shop groceries, and on the way to the store I realized a muich better way to pick those six letters than the German multi stage codebook.
    Use a die and three 3x3 letter tables.
    The tables are calls 12, 34, and 45. Pick one using your first roll.
    Then roll for the row (12 for the first, 34 for the second, 56 for the third)
    The roll for the column (again 12 for the first, 34 for the second, 56 for the third)
    If you get the 27th combination (all three dice rolls are five or six) you reroll from the start.
    Repeat six times to get all your letters.
    Speed it up using three colured dice.
    The tables can be just alphabetically.
    If you dice (or die) is good, you will get a perfectly random result, and all you need is a decent die, the tables you can write up on the spot.

    • @57thorns
      @57thorns 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Once correction:
      The bigram substitution cipher, applied to random letters, means that there is no longer a three character code sent in the clear.
      This makes it harder to decode other messages once one has been broken, since we do not know the setting used. The break gives us all the internal setting (ring setting, steckerboard in a later pass after the bomb reduces the cipher to a simple pairwise substitution cipher) and we can decode the message including those six random digits encoded with the bigram cipher. Not sure how that part was broken really.
      This means you need to apply the bomb machines to every message, instead of just setting up a douzen enigma copies and start decoding.

  • @SteamboatW
    @SteamboatW วันที่ผ่านมา

    Could you do a video on the differences between the Lorenz Cipher and the Enigma? ... and maybe something about what Beurling did?

  • @57thorns
    @57thorns 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

    6:21 What we do know is that the start setting is not starting with J or T, not having Q or S in the middle and is not having P or T last. If the receiver is a three wheeler of course.

  • @QALibrary
    @QALibrary หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    If anybody still knows anyone who worked at Bletchley Park and has not spoken to Bletchley Park museum about what they were doing at Bletchley Park they are desperate to get the information before these people's knowledge is taken to the grave.
    Even with the government saying you are free to talk about what went on people who worked there are still not talking or communicating what they did.
    There are still big gaps and understanding of what happened at Bletchley Park and esp some huts the museum has no information or understanding of what went on there.
    The family only found out what my nan did in WW2 only after she died becuse they found a letter of thanks and a medal.
    She was invited to Bletchley Park becuse she won a crossword competition and she ended up in the Japanese code-breaking side of the park.

  • @Sakkura1
    @Sakkura1 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    9:03 The navy Enigma M4 was different from the army and air force Enigma. It had a 4th rotor, with two to choose from, as well as two different reflectors to choose from.

    • @James_Bowie
      @James_Bowie หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yep. This guy conveniently omits a bunch of things.

  • @BobHerzog1962
    @BobHerzog1962 16 วันที่ผ่านมา

    If I remember correctly the regular weather reports by the U-Boats were also a massive clue. Since they could triangulate the rough position and thus deduce what they would report from their own reports of the same region. Also weather reports had a clear format.

  • @BhbtheRock
    @BhbtheRock หลายเดือนก่อน +26

    Proposal: start using HELLO WORLD for example text when talking about breaking German codes in the war, js

    • @LukeSumIpsePatremTe
      @LukeSumIpsePatremTe หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Why?

    • @DanielHarveyDyer
      @DanielHarveyDyer หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      To avoid getting demonitized by accidentally praising the 20th century least liked Austrian.

    • @LukeSumIpsePatremTe
      @LukeSumIpsePatremTe หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      ​@@DanielHarveyDyer
      I don't think it's praising, or even accidentally praising, said Austrian. But yeah, YT might disagree and I get it from content creator perspective.
      Charlie Chaplin used the phrase 'HEIL HINKEL' in his movie Dictator. I'd prefer that, but maybe the ever-so-wise algorithm can see through that one too.

    • @charlesloeffler333
      @charlesloeffler333 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Maybe it should be Gut Morgen

    • @germansnowman
      @germansnowman หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      @@charlesloeffler333Sorry to be that German: It’s “Guten Morgen” because “Morgen” is masculine and “gut” is in the accusative case here.

  • @SpencerTwiddy
    @SpencerTwiddy หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    0:24 - somewhere Grace Hopper is feeling very proud of the Navy

  • @silverghini2629
    @silverghini2629 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I don’t understand the relevance of the 3 chosen letters. Was the intention for these to be used to change a setting in enigma? Did they replace the Ground word? What am I missing here?

    • @AnotherRoof
      @AnotherRoof  หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@silverghini2629 Thanks for watching! Watch the section again and watch the captions closely. The three chosen letters were the setting for that specific message only. The ground setting was a daily set of letters used to decrypt the message setting. They didn't want to use the ground setting for every message as that would make all the messages for that day easier to crack.
      So the procedure is: use the ground setting to decrypt the first six letters of the message. Say it becomes RSKRSK. Then you set your machine to RSK, and use that to decrypt the contents of the message.
      Hope that helps!

  • @TheRealMarauder
    @TheRealMarauder หลายเดือนก่อน

    Love the Mitchell and Webb shoutout :3

  • @EebstertheGreat
    @EebstertheGreat หลายเดือนก่อน +28

    21:35 But the Poles already had a bomba, designed by Marian Rejewski, on which the bombe was directly based. And the version of the bombe actually built was after an important refinement by Gordon Welchman. So it wasn't just Turing's idea; it was a group effort, like you assumed. The only reason the Poles couldn't crack the beefed up code on their own is that they did not have enough bombas. So when the invasion began, they sent all their work to the British. Later, the British sent their designs to the Americans, who built a ton of these things in Dayton and did most of the codebreaking work of the war. It was more a matter of resources than technique. Americans certainly didn't come up with the idea, and they were only able to break more codes because they had more money to build machines. But the same is true of the British to some extent.
    Granted, the cryptographic principle on which the bombe worked was more different from the bomba than the principle on which the American machines worked differed from the bombe, but it's a matter of degree. Polish machines could do a version of a known-plaintext attack, and their method worked on its own, with enough machines. I really think the Poles should get most of the credit here.

    • @Zveebo
      @Zveebo หลายเดือนก่อน +12

      This just isn’t true. The Polish Bomba only worked on the basis of the key being repeated (as James describes at the beginning) - and was limited to there only being three rotors available. Turing built the British Bombe on a much more flexible basis to deal with expected text snippets being used.
      The Polish deserve plenty of credit for the early steps they took. But their system wasn’t even capable of dealing with the basic German enigma army protocols at the beginning of the war. They were having to work, to the extent they could, by manual methods.
      And that’s before you even start on Turing’s work in reverse engineering the German Navy procedures and various other innovations during the war.
      The Americans obviously had more resources to throw at things, but as ever with World War II, they didn’t get involved until 1942, so missed a huge chunk of it. And they built their Bombes entirely based off the Bombes Turing and his team has built - Turing literally went to Washington to contribute to and review the American efforts.
      Ultimately the simple fact is that the Polish efforts never intercepted wartime German messages (or even in the direct run up to war). While the British (and later on American) did, and adapted to the four rotor and other later developments. Trying to diminish the massive achievements of Turing and others at Bletchley Park is just unnecessary historical revisionism.

    • @tomarmadiyer2698
      @tomarmadiyer2698 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      It's all just robotic safe cracking
      On today's lock picking lawyer, we'll be using this 40's vacuum tube computer to decrypt launch codes...

    • @christianbarnay2499
      @christianbarnay2499 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I have one precision to add. The transfer of the Poles' work to the British was not that simple. The British were wary towards the Poles, believing they might be infiltrated by the Germans and trying to confuse them with fake data. The Poles sent their work also to French spies who rapidly recognized its value. But French spies also knew France was close to being invaded. So its the French spies who convinced the British to take it seriously and organized an encounter to transfer a first set of documents, with the French analysis, for the British to check. And transfer the rest once the British accepted it as valid.

    • @88porpoise
      @88porpoise หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      ​@@Zveebospecifically, as I recall, the Polish efforts just brute forced rotor order by having a separate bombe for each possible rotor order and running a message through all six to see what came out making sense.
      That worked when there were 6 possible orders, but when the possible rotor orders became 60 when the two spare rotors were added in 1938 or 336 when the Navy went up to 8 rotors to choose from in 1939 it became entirely impractical.
      They absolutely laid a foundation, but they were nowhere near the finished line when the war started and their efforts were slightly derailed.

    • @2adamast
      @2adamast หลายเดือนก่อน

      This just isn’t true, American Bombs (I think Navy and Army having their own design) completely outperformed the British because they didn't use their designs.

  • @SpencerTwiddy
    @SpencerTwiddy หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    12:45 - actually, you were correct! “A” and “Z” are stand-ins for what someone would’ve made up in this case.

    • @AnotherRoof
      @AnotherRoof  หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@SpencerTwiddy True but the triplet isn't made up by the operator which is the thing the receiver needs to decrypt -- I thought that was made up but it's taken from a codebook. My bad!

  • @leyasep5919
    @leyasep5919 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I love this duo !!! More please !

  • @JevansUK
    @JevansUK วันที่ผ่านมา

    I assume one flaw into the naval enigma would be they had to talk to the army or if force at times so there would be some messages that went to both navy and air force units.

  • @P-Mouse
    @P-Mouse หลายเดือนก่อน

    there was some post-war use of the Enigma, presumably they had some different procedures for using it,
    but Bletchley was kept secret for a long time, so maybe not...

  • @salacious8crumb
    @salacious8crumb 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

    While Turing is credited for cracking the Enigma, the Swedish mathematician Arne Beurling cracked a more complicated version of the German crypto machines (Siemens & Halske T52), using nothing but pen and paper.

  • @rogerlevasseur397
    @rogerlevasseur397 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    It's written that the German Navy personnel were much more disciplined in following their procedures and training and made fewer mistakes versus their army or Luftwaffe code clerks, where a Bletchley Park person thought of how a code clerk who was hung-over, tired, or bored and not paying attention could make mistakes and learned to search for those mistakes and then decode them (the mistake or subsequent corrective action) made it possible to break the coding via manual methods.

  • @flaviendriard862
    @flaviendriard862 26 วันที่ผ่านมา

    20:43
    Couldn't several shifting "compensate" each others?
    How can you tell the chance decrease when you add more shiftings?

  • @allanwrobel6607
    @allanwrobel6607 28 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I’ve always wondered how much more secure the army and Air Force enigma protocol would’ve been if they’d handed out 20 sided lettered dies to the operators.
    Surely this would have eliminated lot of the human error in choosing their three letter codes?
    Perhaps even more effective than the navy protocol?

  • @JanRademan
    @JanRademan หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    The repetition of the key phrases being the weakness that led to breaking the code just underlines a point that another WW2 history made: The Nazi's were in many aspects comically inept in carrying out the most basic of things.

    • @vksasdgaming9472
      @vksasdgaming9472 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Military communications do follow specific protocol of format. It is just like regular e-mail has recipient and sender mentioned so same applies to military messages even further. Same weakness was present in Allied communications as well so it was not exclusive to Germans.
      In purely mathematical sense Enigma was practically unbreakable. In practice it was broken through human error and convenience. Here is an example how receiver in three separate messages could be marked. Receiver is captain Klaus Schwulmeister in command of 2. Dinner Company of 3. Food Battalion.
      Military style:
      To: Commander of 2. Dinner Company
      To: Commander of 2. Dinner Company
      To: Commander of 2. Dinner Company
      Informal style:
      This goes to 2. Company commander
      To idiot who made whole division sick
      This belongs to soon-former captain Schwulmeister
      First is way easier to decode as it follows specific style.

    • @Triple_J.1
      @Triple_J.1 หลายเดือนก่อน

      OP, your observation is based.
      For unknown reason, probably The History (Hitler) Channel has played too many fluff pieces on German ingenuity.
      Fully 1/3 of the American populace believes the N@Z were technologically superior to the Allies. Because of some airplane, or rocket.
      Von Brauns V2 was a truly great accomplishment. As was the Saturn V which is known to designed under his leadership. Which seems to lend credence to the belief.
      But at almost every juncture from the Battle of Britton onward, German incompetence is overwhelmingly obvious.
      They failed to develop a coherent plan of action from before the war.
      For one: They didn't secure enough oil production or refining capability to wage a war on the rest of the world. In spite of the fact they clearly understood "blitzkrieg" tactics relied heavily on energy.

    • @rruhland
      @rruhland หลายเดือนก่อน

      Fascist regimes tend to be inept like that. The lack of flexibility and adherence to the leader and tradition leads to the culling of actual minds that think.

  • @picrust314
    @picrust314 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Make a vid about what Arne Beurling did?

  • @SukacitaYeremia
    @SukacitaYeremia หลายเดือนก่อน

    I wonder if it might be plausible that that one guy watching over a place never attacked might be a veteran of the great war, read and resonated with the book All Quiet on the Western Front, and everyday his messages would be the book title in german "im westen nichts neues"

  • @_mrcrypt
    @_mrcrypt หลายเดือนก่อน

    Wonderful video! Thank you 🍷

  • @Chris-c7i8d
    @Chris-c7i8d 8 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Just an observation that despite the enigma machine doing all that clever encoding and decoding, it still relies on the sender and receiver having an agreed secret set of code/decode words ie keys, for each message. The convenient thing is that the key can be very short. But today, if we can agree on the secret keys then due to technology, length of key isn't really an issue. I can just have a file that for this message maps the first key press to one list of randomly generated numbers, the next keypress to another set of randomly generated numbers and so on up to however many keypresses is more than enough. This is utterly undecipherable ever, without the key. But what we can't do today is rely on the key remaining secret. But if we could, we wouldn't need the clever subsequent encoding and decoding algorithm anyway.

  • @Bjowolf2
    @Bjowolf2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Did the British ever try cracking those Enigma messages later on, that they hadn't been able to crack originally early on or during the dark periods?
    Some of them could still have been potentially important during the war or historically interesting afterwards.
    And how about now with our far more powerful computers and better understanding of the Enigma machines, and the ways they were used?

    • @leechowning2712
      @leechowning2712 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      There are a few places online you can actually play with engima machines, and a collection of messages which were actual messages, so I know they have played with it in the recent history.

    • @shura0107
      @shura0107 9 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Enigma encoding is not considered secure by modern cryptographic standards. It can be decoded in a reasonable amount of time with our computers. However, there are several Engima (Navy 4-rotor) messages that have not been decrypted and there is ongoing work to do so.

    • @leechowning2712
      @leechowning2712 9 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      @shura0107 Without the starting point, Short messages are really hard to crack. Even with a modern heavy computer, If it's too short it's just not got enough space to guess the pattern.

    • @OhhCrapGuy
      @OhhCrapGuy 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@leechowning2712 Not only is there not enough data in the message to reconstruct the original plaintext, it may well be that there are multiple valid plaintexts that could have encoded to the same crypttext with different IVs. That is to say, collisions.
      At an extreme, some initial settings might encrypt "ILOVEYOURDOG" into "XDKLDWKVQWRK", while another set of initial settings would also encrypt "SENDFEETPICS" into "XDKLDWKVQWRK".
      When any of the initial settings are valid and they are all equally likely, deciding which one was the original plaintext and which ones are the collisions is half guesswork and half wishcasting.

  • @iWhacko
    @iWhacko หลายเดือนก่อน

    was this the same system the high ranking officials used? I thought I heard they had an entirely more advanced system, that could also transmit automatically. And They built Collossus to break that?

    • @AnotherRoof
      @AnotherRoof  หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@iWhacko They used something called Lorenz which is different to Enigma!

    • @iWhacko
      @iWhacko หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@AnotherRoof Right :) love to hear more about that too

    • @gowdsake7103
      @gowdsake7103 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Lorenz which used 12 rotors and moved them in totally different ways. It also was not morse but tellytype

  • @aDifferentJT
    @aDifferentJT หลายเดือนก่อน

    Along with the nothing to report guy there was also a guy who always sent a weather report and he always started it Weather Report. They also could guess what the weather might be and use that.

  • @rgraham-ncal
    @rgraham-ncal 9 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Something that was unclear to me when I first heard of the enigma machine quite a few years ago, is that the machine itself was not a secret, other countries had them also.

    • @kieranh2005
      @kieranh2005 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

      They were available in a two rotor form commercially before the war for sensitive commercial communications.

  • @masterfig9093
    @masterfig9093 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Are you going to take a look at the movie "Hidden Figures "?

  • @trustfriedman8241
    @trustfriedman8241 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Did you know you could buy an Enigma in the 1920s. The Americans bought a couple, as did yhe Poles who pretty much cdacked it.

    • @vksasdgaming9472
      @vksasdgaming9472 หลายเดือนก่อน

      It was commercial machine by Arthur Scherbius. Quite good device and practically unbreakable in it's intended niche.

  • @reecec626
    @reecec626 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Awww, you both know you're goodies x

  • @klausgartenstiel4586
    @klausgartenstiel4586 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    hey, gunther! a rot wamz! a rot wamz!

    • @RWBHere
      @RWBHere หลายเดือนก่อน

      A German trying to speak Chinese? 😄

    • @James_Bowie
      @James_Bowie หลายเดือนก่อน

      But ve haf no rot wamz!

  • @rogerc7960
    @rogerc7960 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    The metadata in the headers was plain text, enough for graph network analysis.

  • @ElPatoLoco-v12jag
    @ElPatoLoco-v12jag หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Why does everyone only ever talk about breaking Enigma?
    I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone even mention the inventor of Enigma… even less make a movie about them.

  • @Shelleloch
    @Shelleloch หลายเดือนก่อน

    This video better not somehow be spoilers for the talk in two weeks

  • @benjaminmartin5847
    @benjaminmartin5847 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Marvellous video ❤

  • @strummergr
    @strummergr 10 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Did the German engineers who designed and built the Enigma system ever get any credit for their brilliant creation? It was human error/habit which eventually defeated it, not the concept or the performance. I'm British, but I still hugely respect the superb engineering which went into Enigma.

    • @AnotherRoof
      @AnotherRoof  10 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@strummergr I agree and I'm fascinated by the device itself. However there was one flaw the Allies could exploit, which is that a letter never gets mapped to itself when encrypting, and this turned out to be a massive weakness!

  • @MarkusQu
    @MarkusQu หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I thought, they use the word „Wetterbericht“ to break / brute force the code.

  • @flinkiklug6666
    @flinkiklug6666 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

    what movie do they talk about?

    • @hut8_newzealand361
      @hut8_newzealand361 4 วันที่ผ่านมา

      The Imitation Game - It is a 2014 American period biographical thriller film directed by Morten Tyldum and written by Graham Moore, based on the 1983 biography Alan Turing: The Enigma by Andrew Hodges.

  • @Kinkajou1015
    @Kinkajou1015 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    If I ever have stupid lottery money, I'm going to have an Enigma Machine made for me from scratch. (while an actual original would be cool, I'd rather an identical replica because authentic ones belong in museums)
    Maybe even hire someone to fix the flaws of the device (like a letter can never be itself) and make additional code wheels beyond the 8 that the Navy had.

    • @gowdsake7103
      @gowdsake7103 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      There are online ones

    • @richarddavies7728
      @richarddavies7728 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      When you win the lottery contact me, I'll build you one.

  • @peterjackman1507
    @peterjackman1507 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    If the British didn't have the navy pairs table, would they have to decrypt each message individually? Since they couldn't work out the general day code?

    • @LukeSumIpsePatremTe
      @LukeSumIpsePatremTe หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Not having the pairs table means they would have to repeat their work next day. But being able to decrypt one message means they already had their settings of the day.

  • @kellymoses8566
    @kellymoses8566 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    The most impressive thing about Engima is that even today it can't just be bruteforced.

    • @Jacquobite
      @Jacquobite หลายเดือนก่อน

      Human stupidity can always be brute-forced. Alien stupidity is another matter.

    • @davidhumble1679
      @davidhumble1679 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      Mike from Numberphile did some demos of bruteforcing it th-cam.com/video/RzWB5jL5RX0/w-d-xo.html with some statistical analysis. Colossus seems to have started that type of computer assisted analysis , albeit on the Lorentz cipher

    • @tomarmadiyer2698
      @tomarmadiyer2698 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Except for the Polish dude who reverse engineered it in his head

    • @RWBHere
      @RWBHere หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@tomarmadiyer2698 Marian Rejewski.

  • @ianherd569
    @ianherd569 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Alan was of the "Officer Class" , Tommy, not so. Therefore, Alan gets the credit.

  • @rayjennings3637
    @rayjennings3637 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I've only ever really associated Enigma with a Naval requirement. Anyone who has watched documentaries and movies based on the Enigma codes and machines, will generally only ever seen Naval personnel associated with it so why the pronouncement at 00:28 ?

    • @orbatos
      @orbatos หลายเดือนก่อน

      That's mainly because most of the early recovered machines were from the navy, they were used in plenty of other places.

  • @calebwyman5510
    @calebwyman5510 หลายเดือนก่อน

    That’s why they screwed up without a pre-code. They would become redundant and start repeating the same code over and over and over again, which made them vulnerable.

    • @James_Bowie
      @James_Bowie หลายเดือนก่อน

      Add to that the laziness of the operators under duress. Of course they reused settings and code strings.

  • @TheTonyMcD
    @TheTonyMcD 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Why the hell would they repeat the secret setting? I know you said, to be sure. But that seems like an enormous flaw. Like, let's assume you received a code book and an enigma machine and were intercepting the messages. You didn't know about the secret setting. But every single message you receive starts with the first three letters repeated, then a bunch of nonsense. I don't think it would have taken any serious problem solving to just try those three letters as the machine setting. Really, it's the typing it out twice that's the problem. It's just a massive hint that the first three letters of every message are important.
    Why not do something like type a random sentence and use the first, third, and fifth word's first letters as the setting? Since we would use recognizable words there doesn't seem to be a need to type the sentence twice to ensure accuracy. And this would significantly obfuscate the obvious three character setting.

    • @AnotherRoof
      @AnotherRoof  3 วันที่ผ่านมา

      "But every single message you receive starts with the first three letters repeated, then a bunch of nonsense."
      Possible misunderstanding here -- the message didn't start with three repeated letters followed by nonsense. Those three repeated letters were *encrypted*. So a message might look like:
      GJAOENFEQOC...
      GJAOEN decrypts to ABCABC using the ground setting.
      FEQOC... decrypts to the message content using the ABC setting.
      So it's not as if the message setting ABC was plain to see at the start of a transmission.
      Also, it's worth nothing a couple of things:
      The Nazis were also kind of arrogant and believed the Enigma to be uncrackable, as a code machine in and of itself. As James mentioned, the Nazi forces stopped using this protocol early in the war, as the Polish cracked Enigma by recognising that the first six characters have repititions (i.e. exploiting a flaw in the protocol rather than cracking Enigma itself). After that, they just sent the message setting once.
      Hope that helps!

    • @TheTonyMcD
      @TheTonyMcD 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @AnotherRoof No I understand that you need the base setting to get the secret code. My argument is that once you have that book, the "secret" setting is so absurdly obvious as to be completely pointless. There are so many simple ways to obfuscate that second setting.

    • @AnotherRoof
      @AnotherRoof  3 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @TheTonyMcD Then I'll refer you to the latter two points and what James said about how capturing codebooks was very rare (and only lasted a month at most). Don't know what else to say -- the Nazis were (thankfully) bad at security it seems

  • @edwardmansfield3475
    @edwardmansfield3475 9 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Thd navy enigma a had four rotors greatly increasing the number of possibilities.

  • @aalhard
    @aalhard หลายเดือนก่อน

    Alan Turing was amazing

  • @DavidZang-b2b
    @DavidZang-b2b 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Isn't the enigma machine the first portable computer.

    • @gowdsake7103
      @gowdsake7103 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Ummm no there was no processing or memory it was just hard wired wheels

  • @yumnuska
    @yumnuska หลายเดือนก่อน

    So fascinating, thanks!
    And I’m delighted to see Grimes here! And a bit jealous 😂

  • @betoneiracromadarebaixada8187
    @betoneiracromadarebaixada8187 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    the german art of making things extraordinarily complicated, put to effect better than ever

  • @Arientar
    @Arientar 4 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Lost opportunity to make plaint ex rotor setting to be HIT and encrypted rotor setting to be LER

  • @stephencole9289
    @stephencole9289 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Re The Protocol -- wouldnt capturing and interogating an operator have given them that info ?

    • @windhelmguard5295
      @windhelmguard5295 หลายเดือนก่อน

      that would mean capturing a navy operator alive (unlikely), identifying that person as an operator and then getting him to talk.
      managing one of those? unlikely but possible, doing all three? i doubt that.

  • @MostlyPennyCat
    @MostlyPennyCat 10 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Should've just given the operators dice 😂 (36 possibilities, more than enough for the alphabet)

  • @silmarian
    @silmarian 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

    The singing banana himself!

  • @HelloKittyFanMan
    @HelloKittyFanMan หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    But what was the likelihood that by the time the other side has decoded a message, it was already too late and the others had already carried out that plan, so it was too late to intervene or whatever?

    • @James_Bowie
      @James_Bowie หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Yes, and that was the case. Thousands of messages were copied down. So many that they would be still decoding them today.

  • @harriehausenman8623
    @harriehausenman8623 หลายเดือนก่อน

    tbh, I would have prefered they stuck to 'nothing to report' 😬

  • @kevingeier3385
    @kevingeier3385 29 วันที่ผ่านมา

    The engima originally had 3 wheels not 5, and then they added a 4th wheel.

    • @AnotherRoof
      @AnotherRoof  29 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@kevingeier3385 There are three rotors in the machine but five options for which to use. Since we're talking about the start of the war we didn't mention the fourth rotor added later. Hope that helps!

  • @intentionaloffside8934
    @intentionaloffside8934 หลายเดือนก่อน

    A letter would never be substituted with itself, so the odds were only 1 in 25.

    • @AnotherRoof
      @AnotherRoof  หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@intentionaloffside8934 But a letter can become itself (and did) after three substitutions.

  • @Bunny501
    @Bunny501 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Never break German cryptography for the British government if you want to keep your balls

    • @tomtom4405
      @tomtom4405 24 วันที่ผ่านมา

      If you believe Peter Wright (autobiography: spy catcher) there was more to it than that. He implied Turing talked too much... and to the wrong people, although he never clearly stated exactly whatever happened

  • @Bidimus1
    @Bidimus1 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Nope.. A Team did it not Alan Turing alone.

  • @croden9405
    @croden9405 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Cool video describing the internal operation of the enigma: th-cam.com/video/ybkkiGtJmkM/w-d-xo.html

  • @DAVIDMILLER-nc9vo
    @DAVIDMILLER-nc9vo 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    How and why are different words and sometimes they are inappropriately used. The hosts are discussing HOW they differ, not WHY. Why they were made differently? Only those who chose to do so can answer that and most of them are now dead.

  • @calebwyman5510
    @calebwyman5510 หลายเดือนก่อน

    26:3=78 if anyone knows what 1 million is let me know that would be ZZZ

  • @nicksamek12
    @nicksamek12 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    16:10 so… you wanted to get demonetized or…?

  • @jameslatimer3600
    @jameslatimer3600 12 วันที่ผ่านมา

    The fact is that Turing really acted on a thought that many knew. Codes and other information needs to be processed and the resulting information discovered very quickly. Although many of the enigma codes were being broken and other information about the codes was known, the solution of the codes came after the textual information they contained was uselessly old. German businesses were using the Enigma device before the war to discourage corporate espionage. Polish mathematicians were decoding some of the messages back then. But it would have been the same result finding out after the information was useful. Turing had designed a device he thought would work. But it didn't. Someone at Bletchley Park knew the other piece of the puzzle. He or she knew about a British Telecom technician named Fellows (I believe). Once that person knew what Turing was trying to achieve he went home and returned a week later with a schematic for the circuitry that did what Turning said was needed and at an blinding speed. So it wasn't a single person who solved the problem, it was a single person, Turing, that put them on the right track. But, even more importantly, Turning set humanity on a whole new road where today we rely on electronic circuitry to solve many of the question that can be asked. George Bernard Shaw ( in "Back to Methuselah") had it right when he had the snake in the garden of Eden say, "Some men look at things that are and wonder why? I think of things that never were and say, "Why not." (or words to that effect)(also, I believe, an expression used frequently by Robert F. Kennedy, who also likely got it from the same place, Shaw being an Irish author and all.)

  • @richardgrego
    @richardgrego วันที่ผ่านมา

    You guys left out the Polish who broke the code first
    Marian Rejewski did the real work.
    Turing just copied the Rejewskis work.

    • @AnotherRoof
      @AnotherRoof  วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@richardgrego We didn't. James mentioned this when we discuss the army protocol and how the Polish method relied on that. Turing and the others built on their work but cracked it in a way that didn't depend on that protocol and thus could be applied to naval messages etc.
      Hope this helps!

  • @magnus0017
    @magnus0017 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Having seen every other James Grimes Enigma video . . . lets freaking go~! (⁠≧⁠▽⁠≦⁠)
    Definitely a fun one, learned some new stuff, as always. (⁠ ⁠╹⁠▽⁠╹⁠ ⁠)

  • @chris-st6sm
    @chris-st6sm หลายเดือนก่อน

    kryptos

  • @michaelsommers2356
    @michaelsommers2356 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    The army and navy machines were not the same. The navy machine had a fourth rotor. This meant that the British bombes were useless for navy messages. The British tried building a four-rotor bombe, but proved incapable of making one work, partly due to the speed at which the rotors would have to spin. Very reluctantly, the British had to let the Americans build such bombes, and they started producing results in 1943.

    • @hairychris444
      @hairychris444 หลายเดือนก่อน

      This change was made later in the war.

    • @michaelsommers2356
      @michaelsommers2356 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@hairychris444 Feb '42, to be precise. So what?

  • @VACatholic
    @VACatholic หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    The idea that Turing was the best code breaker is insane. Tutte and Flowers created the first digital computer for a far harder system (Tunny) that was used by the Soviets (the code break was so secret that the Soviets didn't know the English had broken it and as they swept across eastern Europe they took the machines) into the 70s. Turing is highly romanticized whereas Tutte and Flowers were the true heros.

    • @Zveebo
      @Zveebo หลายเดือนก่อน +11

      It’s pointless to compare them - Tunny was primarily broken due to a particularly egregious user error in which a message was transmitted twice with almost (but not exactly) the same text using the same settings (highly prohibited for a reason). Tutte did great work in reverse engineering things from there. And Colossus, which Flowers built was certainly revolutionary - but it built extensively on the principles that Turing has developed (Turing was literally the person who suggested Flowers lead the project to build the machine).
      And Tunny only became relevant towards the latter part of the war in any case.
      The idea that Tutte and Flowers were ‘true heroes’ and Turing was not is just a bit silly. They were all working for the same organisation on different things. All were heroes (though Tutte and Flowers had the benefit of being able to enjoy the peace, and not being persecuted after the war) Turing’s position as the father of computer science is in any case based much more on his academic work rather than his code-breaking efforts specifically.

    • @VACatholic
      @VACatholic หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@Zveebo tunny always had the higher level of communication. To say it was only relevant later is strange.
      Also giving Turing credit tunny because he recommended someone is also strange. Furthermore claiming the decrypt on tunny was lucky and not impressive when it was the poles who literally gave Turing the ability to break enigma in the first place is just strange.
      As for being the "father of computer science", that's also highly dubious. It's the Church-Turing thesis for a reason.

    • @2adamast
      @2adamast หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Tunny was the Lorenz cypher, an unknown German high command encryption device with 12 wheels, more like a Hagelin machine. The lucky part is that they had a system listening and noting down every message, and John Tiltman waiting for the error and ready to use it.

    • @tomtom4405
      @tomtom4405 24 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Don't forget to mention Gordon Welchman in these discussions

  •  25 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Very poorly explained and presented with accents (Australian?) which are themselves difficult to decipher. They should have included that the krautheads (my father's term direct out of WWII) biggest mistake was broadcasting the daily weather reports in lesser codes and then including the identical reports in Enigma postings.

  • @swedishpsychopath8795
    @swedishpsychopath8795 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    So basically Turing had some ideas about the complexity of the naval enigma but didn't solve anything? But then they got lucky when they captured documents that showed the real procedure? I.e: They would've got just as far WITHOUT Turing? Is that correct?

    • @AnotherRoof
      @AnotherRoof  หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@swedishpsychopath8795 That's so far away from what was discussed in the video I have to assume you're trolling...

  • @Micetticat
    @Micetticat หลายเดือนก่อน

    What an unmatched genius Alan Turing was.

    • @markdatko4832
      @markdatko4832 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Rejewski and co worked out the way in back in 1932

  • @aze4308
    @aze4308 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    looks like bill nye