I sat down and tried my first campaign in the Redux yesterday. Got chewed up inbound to target by fighters, losing an engine with another damaged. Heavy flak over target turned us into a collander with at least 6 crew eventually passing out wounded on the way out. Halfway back to the English Channel the damaged engine gave out and the crew bailed. All 10 survived, but in captivity. Brutal first try lol.
Brest U-boat bunkers had a roof thickness of 6.2 metres so your 500 pound bombs had been known to bounce off the roof, before exploding. So it was not till you started to dropping 12,000, tallboy and grand slam bombs of 22,000 pound bombs that you would actually do some damage to the U-boat bunkers.
But of course the B-17 wouldn't be able to carry the 12,000lb Tallboy or 22,000lb Grand Slam that totty wee bomb bay! You'd need the RAF Avro Lancaster for that job.
I sometime wish that Taff would do some research 🧐 before he opens his mouth about somethings cause those of us who are history nerds sit and shake 🫨 our heads, and yell at the screen!!.
Now that's what you call a "milk run", Taff! It was a wise move to keep out of the operational range of the Luftwaffe fighter stations. That flak looked a bit more than moderate, but you got through it without too much damage. Bombing was bang on the target, but it is ludicrous that those u-boat pens could be destroyed by 500 pounders. They would have been constructed with heavily reinforced concrete which would in reality have been impenetrable to such ordinance. The pens at Brest and Lorient actually survived the war and are still in use today. I've seen the pens at the French naval base in Lorient for myself.
Just finished my first Redux campaign. Ate it on mission four from a flak hit apparently. One second I was looking in the sight for the target, next we were spinning out and the crew was bailing. 14:26 Sweet hit.
Uboat pens would have been a lowr priority as they could never hope to damage the pens with 500lb bombs. It would need tall boy or grand slam at 10000lb and 22000lb to do that, both developed by Barnes Wallis. Only the Lancaster could carry one of either, and tall boy was used to sink tirpitz. The smaller cookie at 4000lb could be carried by the mossie however.
Even with the Tall Boy bombs, they only scratched the surface of the pens. Minor penetration but the pens were still in use. What's more, they're still in use to this day, by the French Navy.
they should have been a low priority but basically the 8th Air Force agreed to make them a higher priority to get the Navy to sign off on the strategic bombing campagin (instead of having B-17s and p38s diverted to North Africa or Italy) [See Luke Truxal's Uniting Against the Reich]
Historically, weren't those U-boot pens made of super-reinforced concrete? I was under the impression that only some kind of bunker-buster type bomb would destroy them and anything inside?
Yes, it was not until the Barnes Wallis developed grand slam, tall boy and cookie bombs (22000, 10000 and 4000 respectively) that they could realistically be attacked. Tall boy is what eventually sunk tirpitz. Only the Lancaster could carry tall boy or grand slam, while the mossie could also carry cookie
@@bionicgeekgrrl Just to add to anybody that dont know is that even with the 3 bombs mentioned above they could only be destroyed through a near miss as the hardened pens could withstand direct hits from all the mentioned bombs
Great work captain and crew! Much, much, better results than our first couple of missions. Changing the flight's direction was an inspired bit of strategy.
Fantastic episode taff, Bullseye.. right into the enemy docks, that's the first of many no doubt in this new series of pulverising the enemy on the ground. No doubt that's going to effect enemy U-boat operations, might not stop them but it's going to effect them nonetheless. Enemy AAA was quite a handful and damage was taken, as was casualties but the crew survived and the aircraft is repairable, so this was a true win for us. Great destruction in the enemy U-boat facility, and no casualties in regards of aircraft loss or crew loss, so.. perfect operation. Job well done mate, excellent.. great flight, looking forward to the next one. Well done mate and congrats on the successful flight, the crew have found their skills. 👍
Good run on putting those bombs were they need to be. Great news, the devs did an update to fix the crosshair drift while in the bombe run. Hopefully this means no more Kentucky windage to hit the target.
I seem to remember from the original game that there is another view, inside the plane that I haven't seen in these videos yet, which is looking aft from the pilots' position where you could more properly see the TT/Engineer (at least his full, lower half!) along with the fuel xfer controls, etc. Is that no longer in the game? I also keep hearing how going higher will cost more fuel, but that's the opposite of RL aviation - the higher you go, the *less* fuel you burn, not more! Yes, there's some increase in fuel burn to climb, but that is more than offset once level. Regardless, loving 'playing' the game vicariously again. Back then, I eventually sold it, because (and this is a **big** recommendation I'd make to the developers), there was no save function once you had started flying, and I simply couldn't always just sit and wait for the mission to finish, especially if the plane and crew were all chewed up! I recommend this as an absolute must in any upgrade and reissue of the game!!
Any chance you can incorporate a little bit of a tutorial with the videos or make a separate video explaining the archaic controls. Lol. Love watching you and wanted to give it a go. Wowza, not intuitive at all. Still great though, thanks Taff!
I played this a lot back when it came out, was very immersive, I do hope they can comeup with a full redo of this with better graphics and controls. Old version had a problem of crew bailing out and couldnt help it. Worse if you nurse home from berlin real time, yes thats a long flight and the crew bail as you get to england even though the plane is still sort of flyable.
Love this game. Just bought it on steam. Loving the new textures and I was hoping to upload some videos too. Especially videos on how to bomb correctly seeing as a lot of people are struggling. My booming accuracy is usually very good. Sadly, I keep getting CTDs on both Bomber Commander and squadron commander missions. 😢😢😢😢
Doing a post-op recce of the primary target when you've switched to the secondary seems a pretty major flaw in the game to me. I thought that would be one of the first things they fixed from the original game.
Last night I got the idea that if I got on my gunners and expended all the ammunition over the water on the way home that it might improve my gunnery skill. I don't know if it was coincidence, but at least two of my gunners were upgraded. I am not really sure what level the other gunners begin the mission at. They could have improved too.
The task is simple as bread and butter. Exemplary workmanship. Only the higher command lacked appreciation to aircrews. No recognition for a well done job. Pity.
your navigator will thank you for deciding the flight plan before the briefing. do it midflight and they have to throw out all their calculations for distance, time, fuel burn, etc
Am I doing something wrong? The missions to bomb oil facilities near hamburg eat my squadron alive. Last mission I faced basically non-stop fighters the entire way, only pausing during flak. I lost almost half of the squadron before the bomb run. My plane killed 7 fighters, out of a total 15 shot down that mission... ran out of ammo probably 100km away from the end of the fighters. Only had 1 little friend left at the end that I could see, and I think there was 1 door gunner on one plane who still had ammo. Lost 2 more b-17's on the way back due to engine problems, and had one crash right at the airfield during landing... There were 6 planes in the formation at landing time. But the after action report said only 3 planes were destroyed... eh.... Is there anything you can do?? Was this a bug? Does climbing or flying lower help/hinder versus flak/fighters?
Can someone tell me why we are so low in altitude?? 15k is not the normal altitude, I said this before but why are we not at 20-30k feet for these missions?
Could you imagine if you had to make a decision to eject a crew member (parachute deployed) who was too badly wounded to survive the trip back? I believe this often happened as the crew member could have a better chance of getting picked up to see a POW surgeon. Terrifying reality, but something that would add much more immersive brevity to the game.
Right now I would recommend the original one if you want to give it a try. I have the redux version also but it is very buggy. AI cant be compared to the one in IL2, it can fly without a problem but isnt really smart 😁
@@QuizmasterNrthanks, I had the original in my youth, just wanted the upgraded visuals and hopefully some QOL improvements…consensus seems to be to hold off. I’ll just enjoy Taff’s vids in the meantime :)
This game continues to disappoint. So you drop some meager 500 lb gp bombs on a massive steel-concrete u-boat bunker designed to withstand even the most massive bombardment with ease... and you actually completely destroy it? That's ridiculous. IRL, the Allies developed a new, massive, bunker busting bomb (Grand Slam, 22,000 lbs!) just to crack these beasts and it took them a while to finally succeed and pierce these bunkers effectively, shortly before the war in Europe ended. Here a puny 500 lb bomb does the trick. Lol.
Agree with you regarding the effectiveness of 500lb bombs on such structures, but let's face it, this is an old game; and probably not well enough researched. Even if there were Grand Slams and Tallboys available in the game, the B-17 was incapable of carrying such a payload with its puny bomb bay. The only Allied aircraft capable of carrying them at the time was the Avro Lancaster with its cavernous bomb bay.
@@colindouglas7769 True, my point was more that I expected a more sophisticated damage model for a sim like this, old school or not. Let's hope the new game will fill these gaps...
I don't think you can choose where your missions go; I believe that is randomly decided by the game. However each mission has a selection of targets (Primary, Secondary and Tertiary) and you can select which target you go for when you go into the Radio Operator's screen to check the weather reports over each target at the Decision Point.
I sat down and tried my first campaign in the Redux yesterday. Got chewed up inbound to target by fighters, losing an engine with another damaged. Heavy flak over target turned us into a collander with at least 6 crew eventually passing out wounded on the way out. Halfway back to the English Channel the damaged engine gave out and the crew bailed. All 10 survived, but in captivity. Brutal first try lol.
My grandad was a radio operator in the 379th BG, the plane his crew flew on most was Miss BeaHaven .
Mine was a waist/tail gunner. They did it by rotation.
Brest U-boat bunkers had a roof thickness of 6.2 metres so your 500 pound bombs had been known to bounce off the roof, before exploding. So it was not till you started to dropping 12,000, tallboy and grand slam bombs of 22,000 pound bombs that you would actually do some damage to the U-boat bunkers.
True. And thus the medium defense prioritie he could not understand in the beginning.
But of course the B-17 wouldn't be able to carry the 12,000lb Tallboy or 22,000lb Grand Slam that totty wee bomb bay! You'd need the RAF Avro Lancaster for that job.
I sometime wish that Taff would do some research 🧐 before he opens his mouth about somethings cause those of us who are history nerds sit and shake 🫨 our heads, and yell at the screen!!.
This brings back memories, i can even smell the slightly funky smell from the printing of the glossy manual in the box.
Looking forward to the upcoming B-17 games
Now that's what you call a "milk run", Taff! It was a wise move to keep out of the operational range of the Luftwaffe fighter stations. That flak looked a bit more than moderate, but you got through it without too much damage. Bombing was bang on the target, but it is ludicrous that those u-boat pens could be destroyed by 500 pounders. They would have been constructed with heavily reinforced concrete which would in reality have been impenetrable to such ordinance. The pens at Brest and Lorient actually survived the war and are still in use today. I've seen the pens at the French naval base in Lorient for myself.
Just finished my first Redux campaign. Ate it on mission four from a flak hit apparently. One second I was looking in the sight for the target, next we were spinning out and the crew was bailing.
14:26 Sweet hit.
Uboat pens would have been a lowr priority as they could never hope to damage the pens with 500lb bombs. It would need tall boy or grand slam at 10000lb and 22000lb to do that, both developed by Barnes Wallis. Only the Lancaster could carry one of either, and tall boy was used to sink tirpitz. The smaller cookie at 4000lb could be carried by the mossie however.
US 8th Air Force conducted 2000 sorties against u-boats pens from Oct 1942 to Oct 43. Hard Targets Barrett Tillman has more details.
Even with the Tall Boy bombs, they only scratched the surface of the pens. Minor penetration but the pens were still in use.
What's more, they're still in use to this day, by the French Navy.
U-Boot pens are lower priority because it's 1944, and they ain't as much of a threat as they were initially.
@@AudieHolland There called an earthquake bomb for a reason
they should have been a low priority but basically the 8th Air Force agreed to make them a higher priority to get the Navy to sign off on the strategic bombing campagin (instead of having B-17s and p38s diverted to North Africa or Italy) [See Luke Truxal's Uniting Against the Reich]
Historically, weren't those U-boot pens made of super-reinforced concrete? I was under the impression that only some kind of bunker-buster type bomb would destroy them and anything inside?
Yes, it was not until the Barnes Wallis developed grand slam, tall boy and cookie bombs (22000, 10000 and 4000 respectively) that they could realistically be attacked. Tall boy is what eventually sunk tirpitz. Only the Lancaster could carry tall boy or grand slam, while the mossie could also carry cookie
@@bionicgeekgrrl Just to add to anybody that dont know is that even with the 3 bombs mentioned above they could only be destroyed through a near miss as the hardened pens could withstand direct hits from all the mentioned bombs
Great work captain and crew! Much, much, better results than our first couple of missions. Changing the flight's direction was an inspired bit of strategy.
Fantastic episode taff, Bullseye.. right into the enemy docks, that's the first of many no doubt in this new series of pulverising the enemy on the ground. No doubt that's going to effect enemy U-boat operations, might not stop them but it's going to effect them nonetheless. Enemy AAA was quite a handful and damage was taken, as was casualties but the crew survived and the aircraft is repairable, so this was a true win for us. Great destruction in the enemy U-boat facility, and no casualties in regards of aircraft loss or crew loss, so.. perfect operation. Job well done mate, excellent.. great flight, looking forward to the next one. Well done mate and congrats on the successful flight, the crew have found their skills. 👍
Good run on putting those bombs were they need to be. Great news, the devs did an update to fix the crosshair drift while in the bombe run. Hopefully this means no more Kentucky windage to hit the target.
Hey, that’s more like it! Great job! Looking forward to the next episode! Cheers
14:27 a little bit like the final scene in "Das Boot" lol ... Though they used single engine bombers instead of B-17s.
Not sure the US Airforce advocated the "aim long and hope they drop short" approach but you seem to have mastered it 🤣🤣🤣
There was a tendency for following bombers to walk back their bombs due to eagerness to get rid of them as soon as possible.
What do you mean by aiming long? The aiming point is the center of where the string of bombs will land.
Roll that bomb film footage! :D
The real time bomb hit footage was perfect. Nice drop.
excellent bomb run, nice and easy! I hope the rest of it goes as smoothly as this (but probably not though) Thank you Taff
Boom! Nice work.
I seem to remember from the original game that there is another view, inside the plane that I haven't seen in these videos yet, which is looking aft from the pilots' position where you could more properly see the TT/Engineer (at least his full, lower half!) along with the fuel xfer controls, etc. Is that no longer in the game?
I also keep hearing how going higher will cost more fuel, but that's the opposite of RL aviation - the higher you go, the *less* fuel you burn, not more! Yes, there's some increase in fuel burn to climb, but that is more than offset once level.
Regardless, loving 'playing' the game vicariously again. Back then, I eventually sold it, because (and this is a **big** recommendation I'd make to the developers), there was no save function once you had started flying, and I simply couldn't always just sit and wait for the mission to finish, especially if the plane and crew were all chewed up! I recommend this as an absolute must in any upgrade and reissue of the game!!
Cheers Mate...
0:26: That's my birthday!
Any chance you can incorporate a little bit of a tutorial with the videos or make a separate video explaining the archaic controls. Lol. Love watching you and wanted to give it a go. Wowza, not intuitive at all. Still great though, thanks Taff!
is it possible to switch targets after the decision point and before the initial point?
I played this a lot back when it came out, was very immersive, I do hope they can comeup with a full redo of this with better graphics and controls. Old version had a problem of crew bailing out and couldnt help it. Worse if you nurse home from berlin real time, yes thats a long flight and the crew bail as you get to england even though the plane is still sort of flyable.
Love this game. Just bought it on steam. Loving the new textures and I was hoping to upload some videos too. Especially videos on how to bomb correctly seeing as a lot of people are struggling. My booming accuracy is usually very good. Sadly, I keep getting CTDs on both Bomber Commander and squadron commander missions. 😢😢😢😢
Rite in the pickle barrel😊
Taff,any possibility of Il-2 introducing the Northrop P-61 Black Widow ??... Would love too see that beast featuring .. 😊
Really wish I had kept my manual back in the day
Doing a post-op recce of the primary target when you've switched to the secondary seems a pretty major flaw in the game to me. I thought that would be one of the first things they fixed from the original game.
Last night I got the idea that if I got on my gunners and expended all the ammunition over the water on the way home that it might improve my gunnery skill. I don't know if it was coincidence, but at least two of my gunners were upgraded. I am not really sure what level the other gunners begin the mission at. They could have improved too.
The task is simple as bread and butter. Exemplary workmanship. Only the higher command lacked appreciation to aircrews. No recognition for a well done job. Pity.
Fast mission, but not easy!
your navigator will thank you for deciding the flight plan before the briefing. do it midflight and they have to throw out all their calculations for distance, time, fuel burn, etc
My planes seem to get stuck between nav points and never get to their bombing run. It's very frustrating
Am I doing something wrong? The missions to bomb oil facilities near hamburg eat my squadron alive. Last mission I faced basically non-stop fighters the entire way, only pausing during flak. I lost almost half of the squadron before the bomb run. My plane killed 7 fighters, out of a total 15 shot down that mission... ran out of ammo probably 100km away from the end of the fighters. Only had 1 little friend left at the end that I could see, and I think there was 1 door gunner on one plane who still had ammo. Lost 2 more b-17's on the way back due to engine problems, and had one crash right at the airfield during landing... There were 6 planes in the formation at landing time.
But the after action report said only 3 planes were destroyed... eh....
Is there anything you can do?? Was this a bug? Does climbing or flying lower help/hinder versus flak/fighters?
Can you change the bomb load you take out? Some targets might benefit from General purpose only
Unless he the squadron leader then the ans is no
Can someone tell me why we are so low in altitude?? 15k is not the normal altitude, I said this before but why are we not at 20-30k feet for these missions?
He’s bombed at 25k in past missions but kept missing.
Could you imagine if you had to make a decision to eject a crew member (parachute deployed) who was too badly wounded to survive the trip back? I believe this often happened as the crew member could have a better chance of getting picked up to see a POW surgeon. Terrifying reality, but something that would add much more immersive brevity to the game.
Assuming they could survive the opening of the chute and survive the landing
@@gotanon9659 : Unlikely.
would people say this game is difficult to learn or is it something leaning more casual?
Why are they getting injured while nothing happens?
You didn’t lose a single plane?! Huh that’s a first
Game worth it right now? Looks fun but I have no interest in flying the B-17s…I get my sim kick from IL-2…can AI handle the flying?
It wasn't even ready for early access. Personally, I refunded it and am just going to wait for The Bloody 100th total new game they are developing
Right now I would recommend the original one if you want to give it a try. I have the redux version also but it is very buggy. AI cant be compared to the one in IL2, it can fly without a problem but isnt really smart 😁
@@QuizmasterNrthanks, I had the original in my youth, just wanted the upgraded visuals and hopefully some QOL improvements…consensus seems to be to hold off. I’ll just enjoy Taff’s vids in the meantime :)
Milk run
ahem.
_Brest implants_
thankyou
Grow up, troll! Your attempt at humour is both pathetic and immature!
This game continues to disappoint.
So you drop some meager 500 lb gp bombs on a massive steel-concrete u-boat bunker designed to withstand even the most massive bombardment with ease... and you actually completely destroy it? That's ridiculous.
IRL, the Allies developed a new, massive, bunker busting bomb (Grand Slam, 22,000 lbs!) just to crack these beasts and it took them a while to finally succeed and pierce these bunkers effectively, shortly before the war in Europe ended. Here a puny 500 lb bomb does the trick. Lol.
Agree with you regarding the effectiveness of 500lb bombs on such structures, but let's face it, this is an old game; and probably not well enough researched. Even if there were Grand Slams and Tallboys available in the game, the B-17 was incapable of carrying such a payload with its puny bomb bay. The only Allied aircraft capable of carrying them at the time was the Avro Lancaster with its cavernous bomb bay.
@@colindouglas7769 True, my point was more that I expected a more sophisticated damage model for a sim like this, old school or not.
Let's hope the new game will fill these gaps...
i need to ask but how did you make it so your first mission wasn't hitting brest harbor
I don't think you can choose where your missions go; I believe that is randomly decided by the game. However each mission has a selection of targets (Primary, Secondary and Tertiary) and you can select which target you go for when you go into the Radio Operator's screen to check the weather reports over each target at the Decision Point.