I find it hilarious that the warrior cats team lies more than the characters in warrior cats. And seeing how many half clan kits are running around, that says something.
Sounds amazing and I hope she succeeds and adopts mapleshades kits and apologizes to them Oh wait this means the warriors website is wrong thats illegal /j
Fans: Can we have more female villains? New writing team: Oh! You mean Frecklewish? Fans: No, like- New writing team: Frecklewish is a villain now! You can thank us later!
@@billcipher8645 That wouldn’t make any sense cause FreckleWish wouldn’t listen to MapleShade at all even if she had to. I’d like to think that One Eye dragged her in telling her MapleShade was in Star Clan so she could suffer more.
Headcanon: she died the same moment Mapleshade did and Birchface, who was too heartbroken over everything to pay attention when put in charge of who’d be let in, put her in with Mapleshade without realizing until it was too late.
StarClan Executive 1: Dude what the hey!? SC Exec 2: Huh? What? SC Exec 1: Don't "huh what" me, I want you to explain the absolute mix up you made! SC Exec 2: What mix up? SC Exec 1: Frecklewish got sent to the Dark Forest you numbskull! SC Exec 2: She was the super bad one, right? The one who let her kits die 'cause she didn't want them, right? SC Exec 1: No no NO! *hands 2 the paperwork* You were supposed to send _SPECKLEWING_ (some cat I made up on the spot with a name that could get confused with Frecklewish's to some capacity in paperwork, I'm sorry if there's a character that goes by that name and was a decent person) to the Dark Forest for neglecting her kits and intentionally letting them die because she didn't want them! SC Exec 2: Oh...OH. Meanwhile Frecklewish in the DF: ...HELP.
@@Aster_Iris this is canon now no arguments Also can we PLEASE get a mini Specklewing novella? Or maybe one from her mate, Driftstep’s(idfk i also made this up on the spot) POV? We need more abusive mothers getting their actual comeuppance.
Edit: Please don’t attack anyone in the replies, feel free to state your opinion but please do not engage past a debate. Please don’t get mad at other people for their opinion and respect them. Thank you! If FreckleWish deserves to be in the Dark Forest, why did AshFur go to StarClan? He endangered 3 young cats on purpose out of jealousy. And yet they said “It was for love”. Yes she calls the kits names but didn’t AshFur attack an apprentice out of jealousy? AshFur did so much more wrong ON PURPOSE then what FreckleWish did out of grief. She never did anything bad enough for her to go to the Dark Forest. Edit: There is so much drama in this reply chain. Continue at your own risk of joining it
He also attempted to kill his Clan leader, kidnapped Squirrelflight, stole Bramblestar's body, took over multiple spirits, almost destroyed StarClan, blocked out StarClan, attempted to kill his ex-girlfriend's daughter and son, and killed multiple cats Writing team: *No! He was just mad with love!*
the writing team: Frecklewish BELONGS in the dark forest! she broke the code! she let kits drown! also the writing team: literally puts russetfur and rainflower in starclan even though one of them watched a kit in a fox trap and the other abused her son
Also writing team: sends Black star to star clan and writes bad redemption act so the fans don't get made even though he watched many kits die and did nothing which basically equals this situation.
Also Writing team: *Lets ashfur into starclan after he tried to kill someones dad who was literally part of a prophecy that needed to be fulfilled or else the clans would’ve fallen apart, and also disregarded the fact that he tried to murder the other two prophecy cats*
Also writing team: Lets Oakstar into Starclan even though he exiled 3 literal children for the sole crime of being born, and was the entire reason they were trying to cross that river in the first place.
@@RIPPEDEYEZ people speculated that the reeds in the stream really meant the kits drowning, either way it would go against the code to kill kits or leave them to die before they can actually do anything about their destiny
I’m so done with the story team SO MANY CATS HAVE BROKEN THAT RULE MUCH MORE OBVIOUSLY AND ARE STILL IN HEAVENLY Not to mention the literal murders in starclan They did Frecklewish so dirty
I’m sick of this! I don’t care what the Warriors Website says about Frecklewish I’m only believing what happens in the main book series from now on,With the exception of Errors obviously.
At this point, the site has proven to be written by people who don't know what they're talking about and most likely haven't even read the books. They've taken fan headcanons that ended up on the wiki as canon, blatantly misquoted the books in their own series, and lack self awareness in general. The official site is legit damaging their own brand.
@@Magentaluvscatz Moonkitti went over this in a bit more detail, but yes. The Forgotten Kits things a fan did. It 9snt that much of a surprise since we kbiw the authors use the fan wiki.
I do think the worst part of it is the idea that Frecklewish should've drowned trying to save the kits, in a book written for children. That is not okay. It could implant the idea that the right thing to do is go into a dangerous situation to save someone. I was taught this in high school! The first step of trying to save someone is CHECK FOR DANGER. Is the area safe for you to provide assistance? If not- DO NOT ATTEMPT TO HELP THEM.
The entirety of the series involves lots of gruesome deaths. Tigerstar’s throat gets ripped and he dies and comes back to life 9 times. Characters drown, a she-cat died giving birth, there’s lots of fights that end in bloodshed. We’re on the same side but that’s just what warriors cats is.
@sophie allende medel You can believe that but the point is that these books are in the section for ten year olds, at least in my bookstore. They shouldn't encourage kids with the idea to risk their lives especially when safety standards advise against such behavior.
@sophie allende medel death can most often appear in children's book, deaths in "Warriors" are not described drastically enough (it's for +10 years old readers, so some readers are still children)
@Inari I'm not sure what you mean. No one is saying a life guard wouldn't save someone. We are saying people who aren't trained shouldn't go in. In the case of the book, Frecklewish is someone who can't swim and isn't the life guard, and actively sees that the life guard is on the way. Basically, don't get in the way of the life guards who are doing their job. In the book Riverclan DOES do their job, saving Mapleshade and are unfortunately too late for the kits. Tragedy happens even in real life for life guards, it doesn't mean a random beach goer should have helped.
Okay, but Rainflower, Lizardstripe, Leopardstar, Clear Sky, Ashfur, and Bluestar, went to starclan. According to wiki, Thistleclaw also was originally in starclan.. oh, Hollyleaf also went to starclan, even though she killed a cat, and even tried to kill her own mom? If they went to starclan, why is Frecklewish any different????
I would've liked the Frecklewish in the Dark Forest plot if, like Akira said, it had been a "StarClan made a mistake" scenario. Especially in recent books, StarClan making mistakes and having bad judgement have been big plot points. It would've been interesting to see StarClan making a bad choice - falsely blaming Frecklewish for neglecting kits when there was literally nothing she could've done. But they went with this, and I'm not happy with it, either. Also, if they're going with the "neglecting kits is bad" point... Remember when Berrykit got his tail caught in a fox trap, and the ShadowClan patrol just laughed at him? If we're going this direction, why aren't they in the Dark Forest? Berrykit could've died if ThunderClan hadn't shown up. TL;DR: This article is dumb.
Since Vicky Holmes wrote the book, I'm just gonna side with her. She's still the one who gets to decide because she wrote it. The warriors team is dumb. Lol
"The warrior code says "no warrior can neglect a kit in pain or danger, even if that kit is from another Clan"." The warrior code ALSO says that medicine cats cant take a mate or kits, and yet, here we are.
Technically it’s not in the Warrior code it’s more or less just “now don’t do that… why? I don’t know- Uh I mean- you gotta take care of the WHOLE clan! Yeah… yeah that.”
I dont think the cross-mating is there as a worthy of punishment by the DF, but instead it's something the clans must stay aware of. The clans punish those who break that code themselves without Starclan's help, because if cats could just freely mate with whoever, it could cause alot of issues and make all the clans mixed and probably create way too much clashing over who belongs where, etc etc. Imagine if one clan is full of half-blood cats. What clan would they even be at that point?? Maybe it'd cause the entire clan to dissolve or completely change itself against Starclan's intentions.
@@alyssabullock6421 They would be whatever they call themselves... Bloodline doesn't make a Clan, loyalty does. A clan full of half-clan warriors can still choose to be completely loyal to the Clan they consider themselves to be. Heck, I can see plot potential for the Half-Clan cats to be exiled and form their own Clan.
I honestly would be so mad if they pulled a double-whammy on us like "Oh, that wasn't from the writing team! Darnit Mappleshade don't post false things on our website!"
I said this on a Facebook post about the same discussion. There could be a semi reasonable reason why Frecklewish does go to the Dark Forest. So she “ignored kits in need” even though she likely would have died but Starclan might have brought this up. She is the one who died over many days, a really painful death right? With that prolonged extreme pain….when she did die, she could have been VERY DISORIENTED. As we see, Starclan interrogates cats if they belong in Starclan if they do questionable actions. As Frecklewish was essentially tortured over her long painful death, I WOULDNT HAVE A CLEAR MIND TO ARGUE MY INNOCENCE. In conclusion…..Starclan is too “righteous” and full of themselves and don’t take mental health into account of course.
I now headcannon….poor Frecklewish got really traumatised. (This is coming from someone who used to actively hate her and her behaviour until I understood how much she couldn’t do…although I still find her rude to the mother and kits)
Not only would she not have the clear mind to fight for her innocence she might also have been guilting over the death of those kits for all those days. Blaming herself and getting all torn up over their deaths so its even possible she THOUGHT she deserved the dark forest. With starclan being the way it is, its totally possible thats what happened. Well at least thats my head cannon.
If I remember correctly from the Squirrelflight Super Edition, normally they decide the fates of cats without input from the cat themselves. Which I think is even worse when you think about it.
but she could have done anything to help. she could have called out to the rc patrol but in her cry told them not to stop to talk to her bc she saw maple and kits get swept away. example of this: frecklewish, screaming at the top of her lungs: HELP! MY CLANMATE AND HER KITS FELL IN THE RIVER, I SAW THEM SWEPT AWAY TO THE insert direction here, OF US, PLEASE HURRY! and if rc is trained for this kind of thing then everybody but one cat in the patrol should have started to search the river, while the one cat listened to freckle's directions and then that cat would catch up with the group and point them in the right direction. OR freckle could have escorted maple to the bridge upon seeing her about to cross the stones. what people don't understand is that mapleshade could not use the bridge because to get to it she would have to venture with her kits farther into tc territory, the place she has been exiled from. and that freckle was following her. freckle might have attacked maple upon seeing her try to go back into tc territorry.
Remember when berrynose was stuck in the fox trap as a kit and there were Shadowclan warrior watching him… they went to starclan, and that was an instance where they could have very well helped him, not anything like how Frecklewish, someone scarred by the river for various reasons, was watching Mapleshade on her way out of Thunderclan territory. This just shows that the “team writers” probably don’t even read into these things too much.
This is another reason I ignore the website. I just can’t even read a paragraph of what’s there without getting annoyed and frustrated by the team. I just read the books, take what I know from there and make my perspective off that, with a twinge of realism, but still pertaining to the books themselves.
this just confuses me bc by this logic goosefeather would be a dark forest cat, he literally chased kits into the river (oakheart and crookedstar) and didnt rescue him when crooked fell in. is it just because he survived?
If I'm being honest. I liked the idea of cats being in the dark forest even if they don't deserve it. It could've been a smart way to show that Starclan is corrupt. But this...........this is just sad.
okay so this does not make any sense whatsoever. I hate Frecklewish but if she goes to the dark forest for "not helping kits" then how did Russetfur go to StarClan even though she and multiple other ShadowClan cats whom I forgot the names of watched Berrykit/nose who was in pain with his tail in the fox trap, and didn't even help him out. Honestly when I hear about the Frecklewish drama I think of this, this doesn't make any sense.
Yeah Frecklewish got done incredibly dirty. Like you said, if she HAD seen the kits drowning, is their life more important than hers? She could have very easily lost her life and been unable to rescue any of the kids. And even if she had saved one kit- that’s still 3 cats dead! If she’d gone in after them, then it’s more likely that all of them would have died. The Story Team needs to actually do research, write out morals for StarClan and the dark forest to consistently follow, and re-read books themselves.
They're just making her evil because they'll never be able to come up with a cuter warrior cat name. Lol. Jk. I think you nailed it. I think someone was getting ready to write a frecklwish return as evil and realized it would not go over well.
I'm //attempting// at making a AU fitting this decision. I do not agree with it, but at least we can get some creativity out of it since they have zero and pretty much doesn't care at this point.
How do we know Moonkitti really cares about this topic?..... She made a video when she was sick, after announcing she wouldn't make one, and it was over half an hour. Thank you, Moonkitti and Akira for being a bigger voice than the emojis on the website.
I'm putting something I know out here, don't know if it can add on to this or not: a couple of years ago, I met one of the Warriors authors at a convention in Bordeaux, France. She was holding a Q&A about the series and its writing process. Someone asked her how all the authors managed to write this series together while respecting the canon, and she replied that all they had never all sat down together to decide or even talked in person before. Any author-to-author communicating was done through the publishers and the agents, and it was usually a matter of reading the next book when it came out and continuing from there, usually with no knowledge of the WIP novellas or side stories of whatever. So this whole thing about "this decision went through multiple people" is a little sus to me. Maybe their collective communication has gotten better since and maybe it's true, but from what I've heard from one of the authors herself, I don't believe it. "Worked closely together": I'm not buying it.
I managed to log in yesterday night, I tried to vote an emoji and nothing happened but I can vote on polls, they might be realizing they dug themselves into a hole and trying to prevent visual backlash on the site. What I would love to see is how they justify Oakstar and Ravenwing being in starclan despite them having more power than Frecklewish in the situation
I think they are- unless they somehow look at the family tree and noticed that part of the Appledusk bloodline is still alive, Stormfur is still alive, Lark, Pine, Feather, Breeze, which those four are Stormfur and Brook kits, are still alive, Mistystar is still alive, Reedwhisker, Mistystar son, is still alive, and they all are related to Appledusk and Reedshine (minus Brook of course) ask Mapleshade kinda let a small part of his bloodline alive- still I wouldn’t doubt that she still trying to kill those cats somehow-
TBF, murdering the Clans would do that... especially since after a few more generations everyone in RiverClan and the tribe would be related to Appledusk.
Frecklewish was mad. She was excited for rhe kitten but it was just a lie she was way too overwhelmed to be able to safe them. She probably regretted in the end. But she wasnt emotionally stable at that point. Its unfair to judge her like that.
@@stuffynosepatrol She didn't put the kits in danger, Mapleshade did. Crossing a river even her own kits said they shouldn't cross. You can't pin Maple's dumb decision on Frecklewish, she literally had no power in that situation.
Exactly! Mapleshade chose to cross a river which mind you WAS FLOODING, also the kits were way to young to even swim and Mapleshade herself didn’t know how to swim which always had bother me why did she even cross that river even tho it was raging flooding river and she didn’t even know how to swim, she could have go somewhere else like twoleg place, I doubt any cat that lives in twoleg place, which are kittypets, would attack her seeing her with kits and probably tired, but no she ended up crossing the river and the kits drowned and she almost drowned so Umm way to go Mapleshade you caused your own kits death by crossing the river, and I can’t believe I’m actually agreeing with this guy but -beep- it Appledusk was right to blame Mapleshade for the kits deaths on her cause she did indeed did, also yea although Frecklewish calling the kits “creatures” was -beep- up but she isn’t really the only one who called a kit by insulting things there’s examples of other characters saying terrible things about a kit and they somehow ended in StarClan my main example being Rainflower she literally was comparing her own son with her other son saying that Oakkit was better then Crookedkit, she says that Crookedkit lost his handsome looks, she was the one who requested her own son to be named “Crookedkit” because his crooked jaw and so much more, but why is she in StarClan, she definitely doesn’t deserve it after she did to her own son
@@stuffynosepatrol Frecklewish wasn't the one who put them in danger. Ravenwing told Oakstar the kits real father was caused the death of Birchface, son of Oakstar, and indirectly caused the death of Flowerpaw and he had to know that at best they'd spend life in Thunderclan being constantly judged and worst being killed/banished. Oakstar was the one that ended up banishing the kits and Mapleshade. Mapleshade was the cat who took the kits to the (boat-wide) river, and was already being swept away from the stepping stones before the river flooded. She could have gone to the bridge or waited for a Riverclan patrol if she wanted to get to their camp. If she wanted to ensure her kits safety she could have gone to the two-leg place or four trees.
Imagine Victoria Holmes comes back just to write a novella that shows Frecklewish accidentally was sent to the Dark Forest and eventually makes it back to Starclan.
I think the only way for the writing team to now fix this if they really wanna keep it canon that Frecklewish is in the DF, is to take back the statement of her deserving it and actually indeed have it included in a story or a story in itself about how Frecklewish has been mistreated for so long, maybe after the Ashfur stuff she's gonna come out now and stand up against Starclan again, bringing up how they made a mistake with letting Ashfur into Starclan and absolutely made a mistake with throwing her to Frecklewish. Could also bring more to attention how stupid and incompetent Starclan often is.
When I saw this article, I was so disappointed, they let ASHFUR into StarClan, the cat who literally tried to BURN THREE CATS ALIVE and not let Frecklewish, who thought those three kits would be saved, went to the Dark Forest. And they tried to excuse this by saying that StarClan sometimes makes mistakes. And yes, they do, but if StarClan is going to let Ashfur into StarClan, I feel like they would also let Frecklewish in StarClan.
What really gets me about how irresponsible this entire article is is how many young people who clearly don't know any better I've seen defend it. Saying that dying "doing good," is good and just. The only way. This whole thing is just pushing a fanatical point of view that's *dangerous* in real life and it's scary to think a team would be promoting it in this way to children. Sure, they'll grow out of it, we all do. But for most cases in the books where they push these "heroes die," type narratives, it's for situations that would almost never happen in real life. With water safety, though? Children are the most vulnerable to drowning. So many children die or are seriously injured every year due to water incidents. Giving them *any* incentive or thought that jumping in after a drowning person is okay is disgustingly irresponsible. I think you can make arguments Frecklewish should have gone to the Dark Forest - that she would be consumed by grief and never heal isn't an unreasonable character arc. Especially given we know next to nothing about Frecklewish - all we know is implied through the lens of a cat who didn't care about her at best, and hated her at worst. The story team doesn't have to lie and manipulate canon they had no part in. They didn't *have* to say anything. But that they did and chose to do it in such a manipulative, victim-blaming, and dangerous way is shameful.
“Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.” - Theodore Roosevelt If you can’t do it, don’t try doing it. You have skills and assets that are to be treasured for the people of the future. Don’t waste it on something you physically aren’t capable of doing and hurt your preexisting skills and assets in the process. If you don’t have it, don’t try providing it. Don’t promise something to someone if you are unable give it to them. If you aren’t there, do what you can where you are and if you are unable to provide that’s ok. You’ll hurt others and block their path for being helpless if you stand in the way of someone that can help. Repeats to the top. People seem to have a big Napoleon Complex these days, which is ironic, because Napoleon even held beliefs of limiting himself to bombard harder in the future. I think it wasn’t until the end when he threw away those old beliefs did he start falling apart to the point that he got sick and became bed ridden to die….
I would love a novella that actually depicts Frecklewish that way, instead of having to piece together information given to us via a narrator that believes she can do no wrong. Give it a name like Frecklewish's Grief, and have her go down a spiral, like how Mapleshade did But a glimmer of hope for fans show when she finally realizes something during her final encounter with Mapleshade Innocent kits died the same way her brother did, all because they happened to have riverclan blood, and during their final moments they had no one to defend them, not even their mother, who clearly cant think of anyone but herself (she loves her kits obviously but not enough to find a better solution) and that if she didnt lash out with grief, there would've been a chance for her to stop her father from exiling the children and preventing their deaths. Mapleshade would still go crazy because her kits are in thunderclan and not her, but they would've at least been alive.
Honestly... Genuinely asking... Why do people believe Mapleshades novella is unreliable? The book is from a 3rd person POV... Mapleshade isnt even the narrator. So why would the erins write it through an inaccurate lense? If Mapleshades book is unreliable just because shes a villain, how do we know any other novella or super edition is reliable? They all could be biased and skewed. Personally I dont see the book as biased at all. Mapleshade isnt even the narrator, she isnt telling the story. The story does follow her, but we see things from an outside perspective overall. In the beginning, Mapleshade didnt even hate Frecklewish?? Frecklewish loved and cared for her kits before the real father was revealed. Sure, Mapleshade was made uncomfortable by Freckles assumption of who the father could be, but she didn't dislike her??? She only grew a hatred for Freckle because... You know... She created the idea that their father was the previous deputy, and physically attacked Mapleshaded when it turned out to be untrue. Before all of that they were on decent terms. I mean honestly... What is there to twist? Frecklewish and the others did some messed up things... But so did mapleshade. And the book isnt afraid to make that known. Its realistic. It feels like a pretty accurate telling of a clan acting out due to betrayal and grief, a mother loosing her children as a result, and taking it out on the cats she personally views responsible. The book could have done WAY more to twist things in mapleshades favor. But it didnt
@@puppiekit ikr they go on about people only believing MAPS and stuff but the second any popular warriors youtuber (moonkiti and akira) claim something by twisting the book they just go along with it. (see the claim that mapleshade was always a bad person and used her kits and only loved aplle as a possession, none of these have any evidence in the text. it was made up by two popular people who hate maple)
Honestly I want to go write a fanfiction about how Frecklewish ended up in the DF by accident and a false ruling from StarClan, only to find her way out sometime in the Broken Code (haven’t read it so no spoilers) and eventually confronts StarClan about their decisions, and how they should be more fair and clear about the rules of the game, since you can’t win when the goalposts keep getting farther away. For example, a cat who did nothing when she had no power to save kits ends up in the DF, while a cat who openly tried to murder at least five of his Clanmates gets sent to StarClan. I might actually write this if you guys want. I’m just that angry at this.
Okay I've said it once and I'll say it again: How in the name of StarClan has a side character from a novella been the cause of so much debate? Perhaps if the warriors team decided to put more cats who neglected/harmed kits (Rainflower, Ashfur etc.) in the dark forest, it would have been a SLIGHT justification
Rainflower didn't actually let a kit die or anything(neither did Frecklewish on the basis that she didn't have the ability to save them), so I feel like putting her with murderers feels a bit out of place
@@uglyfense7754 Rainflower did "neglect a kit in pain or danger" though, and allowed her children to do dangerous things even before the accident. I think she's absolutely a codebreaker.
@@yawninglion1677 I mean, I guess she technically did break the code, but it's not like she was willing to actually let Crookedkit/Stormkit die, so I feel like while she is a bad person, she isn't evil enough to be lumped in with people like Mapleshade, Tigerstar, and especially Brokenstar And for your second argument, while I do see your point, there were warriors around who could have saved him, and tbf, you can die when biking on a road too, but kids biking is pretty common. Yeah, she isn't a good person by any means, but I feel like she isn't bad enough for the Dark Forest, as she didn't ever try to intentionally kill anyone
@@uglyfense7754 Yeah, that's fair IG. Same reason I disagree with everyone about Oakstar, he didn't directly hurt the kits either. There is still Lizardstripe...
When it comes to star clan an the dark forest I think there should be a middle ground like the wondering wilds or something we’re cats who tread on the line or wonder until they either choose to wonder forever or lean closer to star clan or the dark forest depending on there reflections on there life an how they treat the wondering wilds an the cats of the wilds could send them either way an some can choose to stay there an both star clan an the dark forest can visit so it’s a good meeting place for families split between after lives as well
Let's assume that Frecklewish actually did those things that the Warrior Cats Team claims she's done, and truthfully deserves to go to the Dark Forest. Even with this assumption, it's still extremely irresponsible for the Team to essentially retcon a book published nearly 6 years ago (in a way that actually weakens the original plot), and to respond on their website with a very rigid opinion that shuts down any open discussion about redemption. Now, taking into account the actual readable evidence of the events in the book, as well as the knowledge that Mapleshade's Vengeance is written primarily from Mapleshade's POV (unreliable narrator trope), It is impossible to find definite proof that Frecklewish was callous, non-remorseful, and that "all her love turn(ed) to rage and hate" toward kits. On the other hand, the contrary can be reasonably observed and that she is remorseful about the death of the kits. It is clear that the person(s) who've decided to upload the response on the website must have likely misread/misunderstood the novella. I hope I'm wrong, but I fear that there are some future plans to have Frecklewish appear in a future book as a Dark Forest warrior, hence why they're doubling-down on their opinion that she should be placed in the Dark Forest. Not sure how they'll back out of this one, quite the hole they've dug for themselves. Overall, this is quite a tragedy for the Warrior Cats Team. The fans are finding themselves in a place where measures of "justice" are unfounded and thus becomes immoral; like sentencing an innocent person to death row without absolute and clear evidence of their supposed crimes while only going on what is assumed.
actually it isn't. mapleshade's vengeance is third person limited which means it uses a narrator that tells events that happen in the story but only focusing on mainly one character, the narator in mv tells what the characters do as well as mapleshade's feelings and thoughts. mapleshade herself does not narrate this story. she thinks to herself. the only time she is "unreliably narrating" is when she is thinking to herself. and about frecklewish, since mapleshade does not know everything, she only knows what the apprentice who gave her herbs said, and that was that freckle saw the kits in the river. the actual narrator in the story doesn't seem to be unreliable, simply and unbiasly telling events as they happen to mapleshade. mapleshade herself is an unreliable narrator, but this is later on and she is narrating to herself, trying to justify why it's ok to kill three cats. she does this because she hallucinated her dead children telling her that they could not go to heaven until she avenged their death. maple never wanted to kill freckle until she was told that freckle had seen the kits in the water. mapleshade has no way of knowing that this might not be the whole truth. and why should she belive freckle the woman who to her watched her kids die and attacked her in front of said kids shortly before.
@@XxEmpty_EscapexX693 ...Okay, and how does that prove Cuyut's point wrong? Mapleshade's beliefs aren't the issue here, the issue is the writers taking her beliefs as canon even against Vicky's (the literal author's) own statement and intent.
@@XxEmpty_EscapexX693 Can't link in TH-cam comments because it gets considered spam by the server. But Victoria Holmes said after the novella was released that Mapleshade's victims all went to StarClan. Her intent was for them to be sympathetic, or at least not evil enough for the Dark Forest, and since she was literally the author of the story I'm gonna believe her over some random website staff. By putting Frecklewish in the DF with this reasoning, they're literally taking the side of the cat meant to be in the wrong.
If they make a Frecklewish novella or super edition just to villainize her, they surely realize that literally no one but the MapleShade aapologists will consider it canon, right???
@@XxEmpty_EscapexX693 so you’re saying you think she deserves it? They’re giving a message to kids that if they refuse to jump in 7mph rapids to save someone instead of letting trained professionals handle it, that they are a terrible person, which is a genuine SAFETY HAZARD.
@@Angie_Ashf3rn lol no? wtf is your deal? I'm saying that whatever turns out to be cannon is cannon. freckle is a side character in a novella set in the past. don't see why it matters now unless they plan to use her in the main books.
flowerpaw went after birchface and drowned, frecklewish would be right in assuming she'd end up the same way, not to mention that birchface was her kin and it's evident in the story that she's still grieving and possibly traumatized from the event. why would she go in?
And your not even supposed to go into water to save a drowning person. You are much or likely to die with them. Frecklewish learned his first hand and anyone who has taken a first aid course (or has done two seconds of googling) knows not to go into the water to save someone drowning.
Literally put a dude who helped kill Firestar AND attempted murder on 3 cats in StarClan. But put FRECKLEWISH in DF because SHE DIDN’T DROWN HERSELF. Frecklewish didn’t KNOW that the kits died, like stated, she SAW Riverclan and she thought they would be saved. Also, Appledusk went to Starclan and he watched Freklewish’s brother AND an apprentice drown?? So if they try to app,y this, AppleDusk should ALSO be in DF. I’m disappointed in what warriors has come to.
time for the head canon that frecklewish was sent into the dark forest because she was confused with another cat that looks a lot like her and did murderers, that was also named freckle wish
It’s basically Thistleclaw all over again. The readers didn’t understand why he was in the dark forest, so the team made him a manipulative “kit” predator in Spottedleaf’s Heart. Why though? What was the point? Just say he went to the dark forest because he trained there and he was mad about not being made deputy and felt betrayed. Him preying on Spottedpaw was…beyond uncomfortable and out of character for him. It didn’t need to happen. Now, anyone who likes or did like Thistleclaw is considered a bad person by members of the fandom. Good job team. Good freaking job.
This article just makes my blood boil in so many levels like I’m just so disappointed in the story team like wow, this whole article is just filled with information that was never in the novella or contradictory to the novella not only that but also feels hypocritical and it feels like a middle finger to Vicky like that novella was written by her and she probably the one who knows more about the book since she wrote it, she said she believes that Frecklewish is in StarClan then I’ll take that as canon cause she made the character and wrote the story not this bs of a article, I will never and ever believe this article and I will always believe that Frecklewish is in StarClan rightfully so and this is for some future plot for a future book then they should have created a new character or used a character that existed already and is clearly evil. Now that I think about does the story team even read the past books because of me they don’t
And the thing is it's ONLY frecklewish?? like, Oakstar was the one who EXILED THE THREE KITS IN THE FIRST PLACE, a blatant example of breaking the code about protecting kits. But nah, he's in starclan probably.
And friendly reminder- If Oakstar never and I mean, NEVER exiled the kits (and possibly Mapleshade), then the kits wouldn’t have drown, and Mapleshade wouldn’t have become a murderous cat. There’s a good chance that Frecklewish couldn’t do ANYTHING to help the kits, and yet they send her to PONS (Place of No Stars). The logic of Starclan
@@allwatchsomeshitpost Tbh i feel exiling mapleshade was fair enough, she had blatantly lied to the clan about pretty much everything. But the kits? They didn't do anything wrong, all they did was exist. He should have allowed them to stay. Perhaps had another cat raise them.
@@sparksoflife5290 on Oakstar: Him being in StarClan is fact. He gave Pinestar a life, though I can’t remember for what. I’ll see if I can find the quote. Edit (with quote): “Then Doestar stepped back, and another cat approached. Pineheart felt his heart lift with joy at the sight of the broad-shouldered, glossy brown tom. Oakstar purred loudly. ‘I always knew you would be leader one day,’ he meowed. ‘I give you a life for judgement, for knowing which path to follow, however hard it seems.’ This time the force was sharper, more painful, stiffening Pineheart’s limbs and making him yelp. Then it passed, and his legs stopped trembling.” (Pinestar’s Choice, Chapter 5)
But yeah. Oakstar being in StarClan even though he was the one technically responsible for leading 3 kits to their death is dumb. Frecklewish being in the Dark Forest for being upset that she was lied to is even dumber.
So, at first, I thought that Frecklewish deserved the Dark Forest 100%. But after watching all these videos explaining it more and more, I see now that she doesn't really deserve to be there. Kinda hope the team will go back and maybe fix this if it has enough backlash, but I highly doubt it. If (and I use that lightly since I don't see any other cats doing anything that breaks the code) any cat from Mapleshade's Vengeance deserves the Dark Forest (other than Mapleshade) it would be Oakstar. I mean he did more to condemn the kits to death than Frecklewish did.
OK BUT NOBODY’S GONNA TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT MUDCLAW AND ASHFUR WERE LET INTO STARCLAN (you could argue that mudclaw was misunderstood and all that but ASHFUR?!) BUT FRECKLEWISH SOMEHOW WAS PUT IN THE DARK FOREST?! LIKE, WHY?!
If Frecklewish is going to the dark forest for breaking one piece of the code, what about practically anyone else in the series? All the forbidden romances, all the cats who killed anybody, etc.
I'm convinced that the writers don't look at their books anymore also if frecklewish is in the dark forest with mapleshade, I'm surprised she wasn't killed yet
I've said it before and I'll say it again- this feels like doubling-down when reasonably proven wrong. The post reminds me of when I used to see kids in Warriors RP games yell at people for being a leader and also having kit-age kits, and then decide that Leafstar doesn't count and actually now that an example has been brought up they have to hurl insults at anyone saying the leader doesn't have to permanently resign. Of course the article isn't calling the readers unloved half-wit doodooheads or whatever, but that same spiteful "I already decided to die on this hill, stop being right" air is present. It'd be understandable if it was like, a _child_ who wrote Frecklewish into the Dark Forest, but these are presumably full-on adults who likely have children that are in an age group where Warriors would be in their school library. It's frankly embarrassing.
If we are going with the 'she belongs in the Dark Forest because she neglected the kits in danger' line, several other cats in the book and in the series at large should be in the Dark Forest. Ashfur, Ravenwing, Darkstar, Oakstar, Appledusk, Russetfur, Rainflower, and several others. These cats have shown zero regard for the lives of kits/young cats just as Frecklewish has been accused of, yet these cats reside in Starclan. The only way I could see this work with the canon material is if Starclan made a mistake. But if going off of retcon lore, Starclan could be sifting through cats to decide if they really belong in Starclan and kicking out those who don't belong. Honestly so many other cats in Mapleshade's Vengance alone could have been Dark Forest cats, why pick Frecklewish?
I love how the writing team is like “Ashfur tried to kill kits but he failed, so let’s put him in StarClan! Frecklewish saw Mapleshade slip and didn’t do anything? SHE NEEDS TO GO TO THE DARK FOREST!!!”
With this logic so many cats from the main series (that went to starclan) would end up in the dark forest. A decent amount of main characters would too.
We the readers have the ability to use context clues and deductive reasoning. If Frecklewish saw Mapleshade crossing the river to leave the territory and fall in after she was exiled /with her kits/ and told to leave the territory with them, it's reasonable to expect that she saw or at least considered the kits as well, and for the audience to have the intelligence to infer this whether its explicitly spelled out or not. The code was about kit negligence and leaving them in danger, not necessarily directly harming a kit yourself. Theres also the point that characters can still... lie when they say they don't mean to cause other characters harm, whether directly or inadvertently, and about other things. Lying was a very prominent thing in this book.
Its this weird narrative disconnect between whether the team wants the warrior code to have flaws and grey areas the characters face and contend with, vs presenting the warrior code as perfect and divine and black and white. Its really strange to see two simultaneous conflicting stances in both books and team/pr statements without them seeming to be aware of this core issue or trying to reconcile it at all. Like you can't just say "this is canon now" if the books directly contradict that. Well you can but... this situation is the result. Its a bad decision for the longevity of the series in so many ways. Also this is low key encouraging terrible swimming safety and potentially horrible survivor's guilt in a series that's ostensibly for kids, like wth
In real life, if a rescue team was around, someone risking drowning would give them another potential victim to have to save. You give rescuers another person to have to risk their lives to rescue, and that endangers yet more lives! Admittedly, I don't really like Frecklewish. But this is a TERRIBLE AND DANGEROUS lesson to teach to kids. As someone who works as an online freelancer, I want to think they just outsourced this article and paid some desperate writer so they could have a job. I don't want to think the writing team is this mean-spirited.
So if someone was bleeding and they turned to you for help, would you run, watch them bleed out, or try everything in your ability to keep them alive until real help arrives? Laying your life down for someone else I think is the most noblest thing you can teach the next generation. If anything that's the first step in teaching people not to be selfish but be selfless. If firefighters, Police Officers, and Military thought the same way you do, what kind of world would our children be in today or tomorrow? There is something gratifying and uplifting about saving many lives by helping others make it, rather than just a single person saving themselves. But if laying your life down for someone else is a problem, than I'm afraid for what our future holds.
@@mickeymouseclub333 I think being willing to lay down your life is an honorable thing to do. In fact, the way Frecklewish treats the kittens when the truth comes out is part of why I don't like her. It's just when you know putting your own life in danger might further endanger others and there are people around that might have a better chance to rescue someone, you may want to step back and let them do it. I mean, I understand. When someone is in trouble, someone is going to want to help. But at times, they have to know if they may be able to and if they might make it worse if they try. It's difficult to narrow down what one is supposed to do because circumstances can vary in situations like this. Help if you can, but don't if you know you'll make things far worse, and try and find help if you can. There's not enough evidence to tell us if Frecklewish wanted the kittens to die. I just felt the implications of the article were a little horrifying.
@@FireKAT91 That makes sense. But in the oath every warrior takes it implies that part of being a warrior is to "defend and protect, even at the cost of your life." But I like you said, we don't know enough to make a solid judgement.
@@mickeymouseclub333 I know this was a while ago, but I still feel the need to reply. There's a difference between bravery/nobility than just...stupidity. Police, firefighters, and military are specifically trained to deal with certain threats. Regular normal people are not. If someone on the ground is bleeding, sure I could attempt to help them. That situation isn't dangerous. But if there was a crazy axe murderer right behind them, you can bet I'm going to run. I'm not trained to deal with such things and doing anything else but running would get my life taken away. Plus, one of the first things usually taught to people within the life saving business is that you are to not engage if it is not safe for you to do. Lifeguards won't save people drowning if the chance of them getting their own life taken away as well if too great. If police will not engage if they are not properly equipped for a situation and will be told to stay put. Firefighters won't enter the building if there are extreme ventilation issues or the structural integrity of the bulding is compromised. Even the military has to cut losses. People get left behind during retreats, medics might stay put instead of rushing to someone injured if it is not safe to leave cover, ect. There's a difference between being brave and just straight up being suicidal. Even the bravest know when something is lost cause. After all, if all the people willing to put themselves in dangerous situation got themselves killed, there'd be no one left to the jobs.
Old Writing team: Heres this book, its the last one we'll write sorry :( Us:aawww.. Well atleast we'll have memories of past books you wrote and correct artticles. *new* writing team:Lets make the articles incorrect!
I am PRETTY angry with the writing team, but I really love this series. However, I feel the purpose of the books being written in the first place is being forgotten since Vicky left…
Using their logic Firestar should belong in the Dark Forest. Because when Bluestar was drowning Mistystar and Stonefur helped her to shore but Firestar was also their neglecting another warrior. I know I am sort of changing part of the warrior code but I think we should help anyone that is in need of help.
I wish they give a novella on Frecklewish's point of view. Its kinda like the Juniperclaw and Hollyleaf thing, Hollyleaf intentionally killed a cat and still got into Starclan. The worse Juniperclaw did was try to poison a cat, tho he made up his actions by saving a queen from the same clan that cat was from and Shadowsight and still ended up in the dark forest, tho im glad they are letting him have some justice by being a pathway guard. Starclan seems to be pretty faulty. Though some cats end up in the dark forest out of spite, even though they havent done any actions that are bad.
Honestly Frecklewish situation sucks. Like Russetfur didn't help Berrynose (kit at the time) when he was trapped in foxtrap and somehow she got to Starclan 🤨 But anyway we should probably focus more on the how indigenous people are stereotyped and the racism in warrior cats. Not saying you can't be upset about the Frecklewish situation.
When the ones in charge of the series itself start ignoring their own books and ignoring the sentiments of their fans, it starts to send the signal that it's time to leave the fandom entirely.
At 7:20 or so, that is like with Jayfeather and Flametail, is it not? And yet… we know how that went. Personally, I’ve never put too much stock in the site, but I also don’t always take book canon 100% Someone who has been in the fandom as long as I have is likely to have noticed trends in which the fandom more or less accepts something as canon despite it either not being decided in canon, or even outright opposing canon. Warriors is a large universe at this point and, honestly, it’s been beyond the control of even the original Erins for YEARS now. The fandom more or less has the power at this point, at least to an extent.
This is the main reason i left the books. Its so frustrating to read the injustice happening and all the adult tantrum the team trows. I just want to go back when the books where actualy good
ooh, Akira starting (or fueling) Drama? That's interesting. I don't personally think Frecklewish needs to be condemned into the dark forest. Can't say she was a perfect cat, but the Riverclan patrol would seem capable enough to save kits in my mind - and as I stated in the last video's comments section, the Warrior Code did not include anything on kit's safety until AFTER Mapleshade's murders, at the end of which she was already dead. As such, unless she was since chased INTO the Dark Forest (which.. who would do that, Mapleshade? Who was already IN the Dark Forest?) then she likely was/is in Starclan.
@@mightyleafster probably, it’s the only way I can think of for them not making points against most arguments and borderline lying or at the very least Changing the context of what Frecklewish said.
I feel like the warrior cats team put Frecklewish in the dark forest because there are so many Mapleshade fans. And Mapleshade is a big fan favorite. Mapleshade hates Frecklewish, so do fans. Also, I feel like so many people complain about that there are no Female villians besides Mapleshade. So the Erins threw Frecklewish in the dark forest. Next, THE ERINS ARE PROBABLY GOING TO THROW MAPLESHADE IN STARCLAN FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. I think Maple is a good villian, but she is not my favorite
Ashfur is my favorite villain, but I always have to explain that I think he's a horrible evil person who deserved the DF just because he has so many apologists... I feel for anyone who likes Mapleshade as a villain
They could have pulled an ashfur in reverse Like how ashfur after all he did went to starclan after dying Frecklewish could simply have been put there for; being the cause of mapleshade decent to madness and not recklessly throwing herself into the river to help the kits. Like how starclan wasn’t going to let leafpool and squirrelflight into starclan for their stupid reasons Starclan is a bias not so holy place and the cats in charge are often hypocrites due to them have also been breaking the code multiple times in their lives and have gotten away with it Maybe starclan is grasping for straws for a reason to see maple and freckle fight, maybe they didn’t want maple to somehow escape the place of no stars to get revenge so they sent freckle there to keep her entertained with her anger
Me, and my two friends is roleplaying warrior cats together. We realised there was a lot of cats who was too bad for starclan, but too good for the dark forest, so we came up with a place in between. We call it the middle ground.
They could have a place that looks like the real word (no eternal summer with prey running everywhere), just like the ghosts who roam the lands. Or maybe they could literally have a 'ghost clan' territory somewhere for Tree and Rootspring to discover!
@@windylue6206 Yea. The place we came up with is foggy and there is a few preys running around. The cats in The middle ground can enter the dark forest, but not starclan.
I feel like aside from the response this is typical Eren Hunter Retconning and the like, however this sudden and quick response as well as frecklewish's sudden addition to the darkforest, if she hadn't been killed a second time for maple, I feel like she may make an appearance soon in the series. I can't see why else the quick response to fans being upset like this, esp seeing they are probably decently well into writing the next series with first books to hit in a few months, AND she's suddenly in there AND we didnt see her there despite spending so much time there. So unless killed by mapleshade a second time, *I don't see why such a detail would be added in now, and for this decision's backlash to be addressed and attempted to be stomped out so quickly* I wonder if she would be redeemed, I mean the ending to broken code seemed to paint starclan somewhat bad there and potentially delaying that plotpoint, if not she's just evil, idk, I don't personally care other than addressing this may become a plot point later. One way or another. Be it she was killed in the dark forest and somehow gets reincarnated or something or what. Personally I think she's at least partially guilty, (not trying to get maple to stop, treating the kits that way in the first place and like the other warriors letting the kits be exiled with her, not getting help, etc.) but as it stands I think starclan's judgement is terrible and have for a long time. There's hardly any good rhyme or reason why many cats get into starclan and those who don't currently. So forgiving in some cases, unreasonably so, and so unforgiving in others. It's stupid, they're stupid. It's all stupid, but I digress, I feel like something is coming down the pipelines that they felt it nessecary to add frecklewish into it and defend that decision so hastily.
Frecklewish isn't innocent ( I mainly hate how she called the kits creatures and attacked maple Infront of children. Despite her griefing and upset, it's not an excuse to treat children like this) but she should've gone to starclan. There are far worse characters who are in itty bitty cat heaven such as rainflower and lizardstripe who put kits in danger and abused them. Also, russetfur is in starclan despite watching berrykit get caught in a foxtrap (maybe it's because he's not a clan-born, starclan doesn't like those.) I just wish the writing team had left it without an response. There are other things that should've had a response to, such as cultural appropriation/indigenous which many people brought up concerns about, or even how the tribe is written. Heck, even a proper response about brambles abuse would've been better, although it's not as important as the first. I honestly don't get why they chose to change this out of anything else. Should've just left it as how it was
Thank you! This is my opinion exactly. I definitely don't feel Frecklewish deserves a harsher punishment than the horrible death she endured, but she also really shouldn't be praised, either. A lot of people say she's done nothing wrong, when that isn't true: she attacked Mapleshade in front of her kits, dehumanized them, and aided in their banishment which led to their death. Sure, she was grief-stricken and in shock, but those only serve to explain her actions, not justify them. But yes, the Warriors "story team" or whatever they're calling themselves now should definitely have kept quiet about the whole thing, especially with how volatile their fanbase is. (And, to be clear, fans of a work are allowed to criticize that work when it's due, but a side character in a novella that means pretty much nothing in the grand scheme of the series, but can maybe serve as a bit of unnecessary backstory insight if you squint? It's a little ridiculous to get this torn-up over, in my opinion.) It was just overall a bad move.
Ah yes, a lady who is unable to swim and doesn’t dive into a raging flood to save children she cannot see nOR HEAR because it is is dARK AND RAINING deserves damnation when a man who was complicit in murder and the training of children the same age as the drowning kits is given a debate…. Lovely ✨
I think the funniest part is that this whole time i thought we were talking about the Skycan medcat Fidgetflake and now i finally realised who it was and it makes way more sense
The story team now are just a bunch of... how do I word this.. overpowering and cruel, I just wish that the story team could JUST EVAPORATE and get replaced by reasonable people! If only it were possible for us to decide the plot for them. I COMPLETELY DESPISE THEM.
Alright, Since some people are already stating that many other cats broke the code, I’m gonna add some of my info. To begin with, FreckleWish only broke one code due to anger because of the death of her brother, and MapleShade’s mate, AppleDusk, murder him. (Forgot FreckleWish’s brother name-) Besides, BlackStar murder StoneFur by an order from TigerStar; which also leads to BlackStar breaking a code or two. Another thing is, many, many, many cats broken the code ( Cats are not aloud to mate with another cat from a different Clan), and all of them are basically in StarClan. Also, BlackStar was a follower of TigerStar and BrokenStar until both of them were killed. Later on, BlackStar some-what became leader and serve ShadowClan like a Normal Leader. When he dies, he gets into StarClan, which I find wrong. But if we go over to DarkStripe, who was also another follower of TigerStar, he actually fed SorrelKit deathberries because he wasn’t thinking straight. He gets exiled and go’s to ShadowClan. During the Battle against Scourge, he gets murder by his Half brother (aka GrayStripe), but somewhat goes to the Dark Forest. (Also, BlackStar leaves with BrokenStar when he gets exiled from Sc.) I could go on, and on, and on with many other code breakers, but I want to see what other People think of my comment.
One thing, it’s technically spelled like Blackstar and not BlackStar. I know some people like spelling it BlackStar but i just look at this and think “there is way too many caps in this comment”
Obviously Frecklewish is just a scapegoat for warrior cats writers to use when people point out that Mapleshade shouldn't have been the only cat to go to the dark forest in that novel, and heaven forbid that a male character gets punished for their wrongdoings. So the fandom can spend more time fighting about Mapleshade vs Frecklewish (neither are good cats but Freckle deserves better) than spend time pointing out how warriors treats their female characters like garbage and stole from/mocked native tribes in their books, especially when it revolves around the tribes or any cat culture outside of clan culture.
honestly super conspiracy theory level and pessimistic thinking, but a part of me wonders if they arent rushing the login breaking so as to not have the justified reactions to the freckle article and such an hope that itll blow over and they can try to further support "their obviously correct" version and opinion with that
It's never mentioned in the books that Frecklewish is in the Dark Forest, and with how few cats exist there, you KNOW that she would have been mentioned had it been intended from the start. Unless Mapleshade killed her ghost or something, she should be there, and I feel like they would have mentioned her being killed through some level of canon material if that was intended. But it wasn't, it was never intended for her to be a villainous cat worthy of the Dark Forest. This is reminding me of JK Rowling adding things that clearly WERE NOT in the original texts. I'm sick of this, I'm tired of this. The people who wrote this article DID NOT CARE. And for all I care, this article and the ideas presented by people who didn't even write the only book Frecklewish appeared in are not viable sources of manipulating canon. Frecklewish is in StarClan. I don't care what the team says, she never did anything wrong, she was never shown in the Dark Forest. It would be easy for her to blend into the ranks of thousands of StarClan cats than to be with the ten or so in the Dark Forest, especially considering that all the other characters who are not Mapleshade are canonically in StarClan and we have never seen most of them, if any. TLDR: Frecklewish is in StarClan and I don't care what the team says.
I mean Vicky, the original author of Mapleshade Vengeance, said she thinks Frecklewish is in StarClan, for years the fandom thought she was in StarClan, so -beep- the writing team I’m going with Vicky route and say Frecklewish is in StarClan
I just wanna say that considering Ashfur got in Star Clan I think it's clear to say that good versus evil isn't the deciding factor on whether a cat goes to either place. Meaning ya'll getting worked up whether Frecklewish deserved it or not... when that's not even an issue here. Fact is, there's bias in both Star Clan and the Dark Forest and being there doesn't mean they're good or evil. Just saying, ya'll needta chill. 😅
Maybe they should've said that StarClan was biased, instead of saying "she hates kits and is evil" then? We're going off what the article literally said, not our headcanons about how it happened. She went to the DF because, according to them, she's evil. (And, before Broken Code, Ash was in StarClan because he "loved too much", and that was canon back then.)
@@yawninglion1677 I think it's up to interpretation and the article team definitely doesn't encompass the opinions of all the writers. I just don't understand everyone getting worked up over something that happened in the books so much you're raging against the writers. They've made questionable decisions before and it's not going to stop now.
I find it hilarious that the warrior cats team lies more than the characters in warrior cats. And seeing how many half clan kits are running around, that says something.
THIS
exactlyyy
SO FRIGGIN TRUE. I CANT ARGUE ABOUT IT.
Bro seriously!
T r u e
The only reason I will ever buy Frecklewish being in the Dark Forest is that she insisted on going there to hunt down and axe off Mapleshade
thats a nice headcanon lol (im editing this as for some reason i think i come off as ingenuine?? and i didnt mean that aa, i genuinely like it lmao)
THIS ☝
She's probably there right now chasing after Mapleshade holding a twoleg chainsaw. This is canon btw and noone can tell me otherwise
Sounds amazing and I hope she succeeds and adopts mapleshades kits and apologizes to them
Oh wait this means the warriors website is wrong thats illegal /j
i don't think she would do that, but I want to read a fanfiction about this regardless
Fans: Can we have more female villains?
New writing team: Oh! You mean Frecklewish?
Fans: No, like-
New writing team: Frecklewish is a villain now! You can thank us later!
😂
XD
So true 😂
I really want them to make a poll and just see a unanimous vote that she doesn't belong in the Dark Forest, just as an extra laugh in their face.
A lot of people think she should be in the DF, though. I think a poll would be pretty close
I say that Frecklewish would not go to the Dark Forest.
Same!
@@quillheart877 I don't know. Maybe we could try to get Akira to do a poll as a test?
I would love to see that unfold
Victoria said that Frecklewish went to Starclan, the new writing team just have a bias against Frecklewish
FR!!! And a possible bias against women :’/
@@Angie_Ashf3rn I don't blame people who say Warrior Cats have misogyny undertones in the newer books
Only belive Victoria’s word
@@RIPPEDEYEZ yeah! Fr!
@@startheangel9760 it always did, is just not even close to being veiled with the new team
Time to create headcanons of Starclan accidentally sending her to the dark forest since the story team won’t do it themselves
In my personal headcannon she was dragged/tricked into entering by Mapleshade
@@billcipher8645
That wouldn’t make any sense cause FreckleWish wouldn’t listen to MapleShade at all even if she had to. I’d like to think that One Eye dragged her in telling her MapleShade was in Star Clan so she could suffer more.
Headcanon: she died the same moment Mapleshade did and Birchface, who was too heartbroken over everything to pay attention when put in charge of who’d be let in, put her in with Mapleshade without realizing until it was too late.
StarClan Executive 1: Dude what the hey!?
SC Exec 2: Huh? What?
SC Exec 1: Don't "huh what" me, I want you to explain the absolute mix up you made!
SC Exec 2: What mix up?
SC Exec 1: Frecklewish got sent to the Dark Forest you numbskull!
SC Exec 2: She was the super bad one, right? The one who let her kits die 'cause she didn't want them, right?
SC Exec 1: No no NO! *hands 2 the paperwork* You were supposed to send _SPECKLEWING_ (some cat I made up on the spot with a name that could get confused with Frecklewish's to some capacity in paperwork, I'm sorry if there's a character that goes by that name and was a decent person) to the Dark Forest for neglecting her kits and intentionally letting them die because she didn't want them!
SC Exec 2: Oh...OH.
Meanwhile Frecklewish in the DF: ...HELP.
@@Aster_Iris this is canon now no arguments
Also can we PLEASE get a mini Specklewing novella? Or maybe one from her mate, Driftstep’s(idfk i also made this up on the spot) POV? We need more abusive mothers getting their actual comeuppance.
Edit: Please don’t attack anyone in the replies, feel free to state your opinion but please do not engage past a debate. Please don’t get mad at other people for their opinion and respect them. Thank you!
If FreckleWish deserves to be in the Dark Forest, why did AshFur go to StarClan? He endangered 3 young cats on purpose out of jealousy. And yet they said “It was for love”. Yes she calls the kits names but didn’t AshFur attack an apprentice out of jealousy? AshFur did so much more wrong ON PURPOSE then what FreckleWish did out of grief. She never did anything bad enough for her to go to the Dark Forest.
Edit: There is so much drama in this reply chain. Continue at your own risk of joining it
Rainflower is in StarClan for some reason
@@iHaveACrushOnPrincessDiana and lizardstripe
He also attempted to kill his Clan leader, kidnapped Squirrelflight, stole Bramblestar's body, took over multiple spirits, almost destroyed StarClan, blocked out StarClan, attempted to kill his ex-girlfriend's daughter and son, and killed multiple cats
Writing team: *No! He was just mad with love!*
Yea I think directly trying to murder some cats is worse than watching some cats die even if you could do something
@@serenitythesiren5031 the points after he tried to kill his leader are after he went to starclan
the writing team: Frecklewish BELONGS in the dark forest! she broke the code! she let kits drown!
also the writing team: literally puts russetfur and rainflower in starclan even though one of them watched a kit in a fox trap and the other abused her son
Also writing team: sends Black star to star clan and writes bad redemption act so the fans don't get made even though he watched many kits die and did nothing which basically equals this situation.
Also Writing team: *Lets ashfur into starclan after he tried to kill someones dad who was literally part of a prophecy that needed to be fulfilled or else the clans would’ve fallen apart, and also disregarded the fact that he tried to murder the other two prophecy cats*
And then just said “he loved too much."
Also writing team: Lets Oakstar into Starclan even though he exiled 3 literal children for the sole crime of being born, and was the entire reason they were trying to cross that river in the first place.
@@RIPPEDEYEZ people speculated that the reeds in the stream really meant the kits drowning, either way it would go against the code to kill kits or leave them to die before they can actually do anything about their destiny
I’m so done with the story team
SO MANY CATS HAVE BROKEN THAT RULE MUCH MORE OBVIOUSLY AND ARE STILL IN HEAVENLY
Not to mention the literal murders in starclan
They did Frecklewish so dirty
*Cough cough* ashfur
I can name some- Hollyleaf (litteralky ends ashfur and hides it), Ashfur (manipulation), leopardstar (she did nothing about stonefur's death)
@@TallthinksOLD I would argue that Ashfur was the only one on that list to not deserve Starclan, your pont might be to show that cats can be forgvein.
@@howling_moon2581 I agree
like when those shadow clan cats laughed while Berrykit’ tail was stuck in a fox trap and he was bleeding and crying. they got into kitti heaven
I’m sick of this! I don’t care what the Warriors Website says about Frecklewish I’m only believing what happens in the main book series from now on,With the exception of Errors obviously.
At this point, the site has proven to be written by people who don't know what they're talking about and most likely haven't even read the books. They've taken fan headcanons that ended up on the wiki as canon, blatantly misquoted the books in their own series, and lack self awareness in general. The official site is legit damaging their own brand.
@@ThatLoudCockatoo wait they thought headcanons were canon? i knew they were bad, but jeez, wow lol 0-0
@@Magentaluvscatz Moonkitti went over this in a bit more detail, but yes. The Forgotten Kits things a fan did. It 9snt that much of a surprise since we kbiw the authors use the fan wiki.
As someone who loves maplshade’s vengeance…I’m sick of them lying about this!
I do think the worst part of it is the idea that Frecklewish should've drowned trying to save the kits, in a book written for children. That is not okay. It could implant the idea that the right thing to do is go into a dangerous situation to save someone. I was taught this in high school! The first step of trying to save someone is CHECK FOR DANGER. Is the area safe for you to provide assistance? If not- DO NOT ATTEMPT TO HELP THEM.
The entirety of the series involves lots of gruesome deaths. Tigerstar’s throat gets ripped and he dies and comes back to life 9 times. Characters drown, a she-cat died giving birth, there’s lots of fights that end in bloodshed. We’re on the same side but that’s just what warriors cats is.
@@sunnlovey actually his belly got ripped open i believe, and he died and came back 9 times in a row as a demented show for the cats around
@sophie allende medel You can believe that but the point is that these books are in the section for ten year olds, at least in my bookstore. They shouldn't encourage kids with the idea to risk their lives especially when safety standards advise against such behavior.
@sophie allende medel death can most often appear in children's book, deaths in "Warriors" are not described drastically enough (it's for +10 years old readers, so some readers are still children)
@Inari I'm not sure what you mean. No one is saying a life guard wouldn't save someone. We are saying people who aren't trained shouldn't go in. In the case of the book, Frecklewish is someone who can't swim and isn't the life guard, and actively sees that the life guard is on the way. Basically, don't get in the way of the life guards who are doing their job. In the book Riverclan DOES do their job, saving Mapleshade and are unfortunately too late for the kits. Tragedy happens even in real life for life guards, it doesn't mean a random beach goer should have helped.
Okay, but Rainflower, Lizardstripe, Leopardstar, Clear Sky, Ashfur, and Bluestar, went to starclan. According to wiki, Thistleclaw also was originally in starclan.. oh, Hollyleaf also went to starclan, even though she killed a cat, and even tried to kill her own mom? If they went to starclan, why is Frecklewish any different????
I would've liked the Frecklewish in the Dark Forest plot if, like Akira said, it had been a "StarClan made a mistake" scenario. Especially in recent books, StarClan making mistakes and having bad judgement have been big plot points. It would've been interesting to see StarClan making a bad choice - falsely blaming Frecklewish for neglecting kits when there was literally nothing she could've done. But they went with this, and I'm not happy with it, either.
Also, if they're going with the "neglecting kits is bad" point... Remember when Berrykit got his tail caught in a fox trap, and the ShadowClan patrol just laughed at him? If we're going this direction, why aren't they in the Dark Forest? Berrykit could've died if ThunderClan hadn't shown up.
TL;DR: This article is dumb.
Did the team forget about that scene- like that literally the definition of what they condemning Frecklewish of- yikes
Since Vicky Holmes wrote the book, I'm just gonna side with her. She's still the one who gets to decide because she wrote it. The warriors team is dumb. Lol
Victoria and Kate are the only reliable sources these days. I really don’t like the new authors for many reasons, including the one you presented.
@@WarriorLionstripe Yeah, same.
It's the ones with the money that control the story, like it or not the investors/ publishers are gonna be the ones with the final choices
@@RacheI_YT Cannon is a buffet table. I only take the things I like.
@@WarriorLionstripe I still find it EXTREMELY weird that they killed Briarlight the minute Vicky left the team.
"The warrior code says "no warrior can neglect a kit in pain or danger, even if that kit is from another Clan"."
The warrior code ALSO says that medicine cats cant take a mate or kits, and yet, here we are.
Also there very much was a shadowclan cat watching Berrynose as a kit in a fox trap and didn't do anything but be rude.
@@silverlynxclaw1460 not just one, but three!
Technically it’s not in the Warrior code it’s more or less just “now don’t do that… why? I don’t know- Uh I mean- you gotta take care of the WHOLE clan! Yeah… yeah that.”
I dont think the cross-mating is there as a worthy of punishment by the DF, but instead it's something the clans must stay aware of.
The clans punish those who break that code themselves without Starclan's help, because if cats could just freely mate with whoever, it could cause alot of issues and make all the clans mixed and probably create way too much clashing over who belongs where, etc etc.
Imagine if one clan is full of half-blood cats. What clan would they even be at that point?? Maybe it'd cause the entire clan to dissolve or completely change itself against Starclan's intentions.
@@alyssabullock6421 They would be whatever they call themselves... Bloodline doesn't make a Clan, loyalty does. A clan full of half-clan warriors can still choose to be completely loyal to the Clan they consider themselves to be. Heck, I can see plot potential for the Half-Clan cats to be exiled and form their own Clan.
The article reads as if it was written by Mapleshade herself. Completely misguided but so confident in itself there would be no use in debate
Agreed!
That’d be funny 😆
I honestly would be so mad if they pulled a double-whammy on us like "Oh, that wasn't from the writing team! Darnit Mappleshade don't post false things on our website!"
I said this on a Facebook post about the same discussion. There could be a semi reasonable reason why Frecklewish does go to the Dark Forest. So she “ignored kits in need” even though she likely would have died but Starclan might have brought this up. She is the one who died over many days, a really painful death right? With that prolonged extreme pain….when she did die, she could have been VERY DISORIENTED. As we see, Starclan interrogates cats if they belong in Starclan if they do questionable actions. As Frecklewish was essentially tortured over her long painful death, I WOULDNT HAVE A CLEAR MIND TO ARGUE MY INNOCENCE. In conclusion…..Starclan is too “righteous” and full of themselves and don’t take mental health into account of course.
I now headcannon….poor Frecklewish got really traumatised. (This is coming from someone who used to actively hate her and her behaviour until I understood how much she couldn’t do…although I still find her rude to the mother and kits)
Not only would she not have the clear mind to fight for her innocence she might also have been guilting over the death of those kits for all those days. Blaming herself and getting all torn up over their deaths so its even possible she THOUGHT she deserved the dark forest. With starclan being the way it is, its totally possible thats what happened. Well at least thats my head cannon.
This makes sense in a very sad way and I dont like it, but starclan would definitely do this
If I remember correctly from the Squirrelflight Super Edition, normally they decide the fates of cats without input from the cat themselves. Which I think is even worse when you think about it.
but she could have done anything to help. she could have called out to the rc patrol but in her cry told them not to stop to talk to her bc she saw maple and kits get swept away. example of this: frecklewish, screaming at the top of her lungs: HELP! MY CLANMATE AND HER KITS FELL IN THE RIVER, I SAW THEM SWEPT AWAY TO THE insert direction here, OF US, PLEASE HURRY! and if rc is trained for this kind of thing then everybody but one cat in the patrol should have started to search the river, while the one cat listened to freckle's directions and then that cat would catch up with the group and point them in the right direction. OR freckle could have escorted maple to the bridge upon seeing her about to cross the stones. what people don't understand is that mapleshade could not use the bridge because to get to it she would have to venture with her kits farther into tc territory, the place she has been exiled from. and that freckle was following her. freckle might have attacked maple upon seeing her try to go back into tc territorry.
Remember when berrynose was stuck in the fox trap as a kit and there were Shadowclan warrior watching him… they went to starclan, and that was an instance where they could have very well helped him, not anything like how Frecklewish, someone scarred by the river for various reasons, was watching Mapleshade on her way out of Thunderclan territory. This just shows that the “team writers” probably don’t even read into these things too much.
Berry was no kit
@@JayJei576 an apprentice then. Still young.
This is another reason I ignore the website. I just can’t even read a paragraph of what’s there without getting annoyed and frustrated by the team. I just read the books, take what I know from there and make my perspective off that, with a twinge of realism, but still pertaining to the books themselves.
this just confuses me bc by this logic goosefeather would be a dark forest cat, he literally chased kits into the river (oakheart and crookedstar) and didnt rescue him when crooked fell in. is it just because he survived?
u forgot russetfur and other cats in her patrol
If I'm being honest.
I liked the idea of cats being in the dark forest even if they don't deserve it.
It could've been a smart way to show that Starclan is corrupt.
But this...........this is just sad.
okay so this does not make any sense whatsoever. I hate Frecklewish but if she goes to the dark forest for "not helping kits" then how did Russetfur go to StarClan even though she and multiple other ShadowClan cats whom I forgot the names of watched Berrykit/nose who was in pain with his tail in the fox trap, and didn't even help him out. Honestly when I hear about the Frecklewish drama I think of this, this doesn't make any sense.
Yeah Frecklewish got done incredibly dirty.
Like you said, if she HAD seen the kits drowning, is their life more important than hers? She could have very easily lost her life and been unable to rescue any of the kids. And even if she had saved one kit- that’s still 3 cats dead! If she’d gone in after them, then it’s more likely that all of them would have died. The Story Team needs to actually do research, write out morals for StarClan and the dark forest to consistently follow, and re-read books themselves.
Not to mention THE RIVER WAS BIG ENOUGH TO HAVE BOATS ON! Like Mapleshade was far away on the river clan side of the river!
Frick the story team! I will forever head canon Frecklewish in Starclan with her brother like she deserves.
Same! I don’t find the Warriors Website as canon as I see the books.
Although it’s official (I think)
They're just making her evil because they'll never be able to come up with a cuter warrior cat name. Lol.
Jk. I think you nailed it. I think someone was getting ready to write a frecklwish return as evil and realized it would not go over well.
I'm //attempting// at making a AU fitting this decision. I do not agree with it, but at least we can get some creativity out of it since they have zero and pretty much doesn't care at this point.
Well, there's another Frecklewish isn't there?
@@lucilucid There is, I believe it's SkyClan's current Medicine Cat.
They used the name twice, probably because they wrote Frecklewish on a used napkin and forgot they had already named a character that name
@@Weirdanimalboy Like they did with Darkstar?
At this point I think the Warriors writing team should never type another word again ☺️
How do we know Moonkitti really cares about this topic?.....
She made a video when she was sick, after announcing she wouldn't make one, and it was over half an hour. Thank you, Moonkitti and Akira for being a bigger voice than the emojis on the website.
I'm putting something I know out here, don't know if it can add on to this or not: a couple of years ago, I met one of the Warriors authors at a convention in Bordeaux, France. She was holding a Q&A about the series and its writing process.
Someone asked her how all the authors managed to write this series together while respecting the canon, and she replied that all they had never all sat down together to decide or even talked in person before. Any author-to-author communicating was done through the publishers and the agents, and it was usually a matter of reading the next book when it came out and continuing from there, usually with no knowledge of the WIP novellas or side stories of whatever.
So this whole thing about "this decision went through multiple people" is a little sus to me. Maybe their collective communication has gotten better since and maybe it's true, but from what I've heard from one of the authors herself, I don't believe it.
"Worked closely together": I'm not buying it.
That is actually *really* useful information to have mentioned, it def makes this all seem really weird.
Bumping this
I personally think Frecklewish never belonged in the DF in the first place
I managed to log in yesterday night, I tried to vote an emoji and nothing happened but I can vote on polls, they might be realizing they dug themselves into a hole and trying to prevent visual backlash on the site. What I would love to see is how they justify Oakstar and Ravenwing being in starclan despite them having more power than Frecklewish in the situation
And they can’t retcon that because Oakstar gave Pinestar a life
@@dragonstouch1042dark forest cats can actually give lives to leaders
@@PommieTheYoomie but he was shown in Starclan
@@dragonstouch1042 what part, genuine question
Letting freckle wish into DF is the equivalent of putting Tigerstar in starclan
"Sure he murdered multiple cats, but he just wanted his father's love...."
Eh. They let Ashfur in.
Also I think the writing team forgot mapleshades goal was her goal to kill the rest of appledusks bloodline
I think they are- unless they somehow look at the family tree and noticed that part of the Appledusk bloodline is still alive, Stormfur is still alive, Lark, Pine, Feather, Breeze, which those four are Stormfur and Brook kits, are still alive, Mistystar is still alive, Reedwhisker, Mistystar son, is still alive, and they all are related to Appledusk and Reedshine (minus Brook of course) ask Mapleshade kinda let a small part of his bloodline alive- still I wouldn’t doubt that she still trying to kill those cats somehow-
@@LocalLazyStove yeah the writing team forgets bloodlines because Ashfur is squirrelflights uncle
TBF, murdering the Clans would do that... especially since after a few more generations everyone in RiverClan and the tribe would be related to Appledusk.
“Who’s she gonna call?” Idk maybe ghost busters
Ok that was good 😤
*throws my like at you*
Pfft- I did not expect that last part and it got me laughing *yeets like while still wheezing*
Frecklewish was mad. She was excited for rhe kitten but it was just a lie she was way too overwhelmed to be able to safe them. She probably regretted in the end.
But she wasnt emotionally stable at that point.
Its unfair to judge her like that.
She should have known what danger she was putting the kits in, she deserves what she got. She had no right to take her anger out on Mapleshade's kits.
@@stuffynosepatrol She didn't put the kits in danger, Mapleshade did. Crossing a river even her own kits said they shouldn't cross. You can't pin Maple's dumb decision on Frecklewish, she literally had no power in that situation.
Exactly! Mapleshade chose to cross a river which mind you WAS FLOODING, also the kits were way to young to even swim and Mapleshade herself didn’t know how to swim which always had bother me why did she even cross that river even tho it was raging flooding river and she didn’t even know how to swim, she could have go somewhere else like twoleg place, I doubt any cat that lives in twoleg place, which are kittypets, would attack her seeing her with kits and probably tired, but no she ended up crossing the river and the kits drowned and she almost drowned so Umm way to go Mapleshade you caused your own kits death by crossing the river, and I can’t believe I’m actually agreeing with this guy but -beep- it Appledusk was right to blame Mapleshade for the kits deaths on her cause she did indeed did, also yea although Frecklewish calling the kits “creatures” was -beep- up but she isn’t really the only one who called a kit by insulting things there’s examples of other characters saying terrible things about a kit and they somehow ended in StarClan my main example being Rainflower she literally was comparing her own son with her other son saying that Oakkit was better then Crookedkit, she says that Crookedkit lost his handsome looks, she was the one who requested her own son to be named “Crookedkit” because his crooked jaw and so much more, but why is she in StarClan, she definitely doesn’t deserve it after she did to her own son
@@LocalLazyStove Yeah also there was a literal bridge crossing the river..
@@stuffynosepatrol Frecklewish wasn't the one who put them in danger. Ravenwing told Oakstar the kits real father was caused the death of Birchface, son of Oakstar, and indirectly caused the death of Flowerpaw and he had to know that at best they'd spend life in Thunderclan being constantly judged and worst being killed/banished. Oakstar was the one that ended up banishing the kits and Mapleshade.
Mapleshade was the cat who took the kits to the (boat-wide) river, and was already being swept away from the stepping stones before the river flooded. She could have gone to the bridge or waited for a Riverclan patrol if she wanted to get to their camp. If she wanted to ensure her kits safety she could have gone to the two-leg place or four trees.
Imagine Victoria Holmes comes back just to write a novella that shows Frecklewish accidentally was sent to the Dark Forest and eventually makes it back to Starclan.
I think the only way for the writing team to now fix this if they really wanna keep it canon that Frecklewish is in the DF, is to take back the statement of her deserving it and actually indeed have it included in a story or a story in itself about how Frecklewish has been mistreated for so long, maybe after the Ashfur stuff she's gonna come out now and stand up against Starclan again, bringing up how they made a mistake with letting Ashfur into Starclan and absolutely made a mistake with throwing her to Frecklewish.
Could also bring more to attention how stupid and incompetent Starclan often is.
I agree with you I think all the Redeemed df cats would all begin to complain so starclan could change
I know, the copout of "well just don't do bad things then lol" is such a slap in the face
When I saw this article, I was so disappointed, they let ASHFUR into StarClan, the cat who literally tried to BURN THREE CATS ALIVE and not let Frecklewish, who thought those three kits would be saved, went to the Dark Forest. And they tried to excuse this by saying that StarClan sometimes makes mistakes. And yes, they do, but if StarClan is going to let Ashfur into StarClan, I feel like they would also let Frecklewish in StarClan.
What really gets me about how irresponsible this entire article is is how many young people who clearly don't know any better I've seen defend it. Saying that dying "doing good," is good and just. The only way. This whole thing is just pushing a fanatical point of view that's *dangerous* in real life and it's scary to think a team would be promoting it in this way to children.
Sure, they'll grow out of it, we all do. But for most cases in the books where they push these "heroes die," type narratives, it's for situations that would almost never happen in real life. With water safety, though? Children are the most vulnerable to drowning. So many children die or are seriously injured every year due to water incidents. Giving them *any* incentive or thought that jumping in after a drowning person is okay is disgustingly irresponsible.
I think you can make arguments Frecklewish should have gone to the Dark Forest - that she would be consumed by grief and never heal isn't an unreasonable character arc. Especially given we know next to nothing about Frecklewish - all we know is implied through the lens of a cat who didn't care about her at best, and hated her at worst. The story team doesn't have to lie and manipulate canon they had no part in. They didn't *have* to say anything. But that they did and chose to do it in such a manipulative, victim-blaming, and dangerous way is shameful.
“Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.” - Theodore Roosevelt
If you can’t do it, don’t try doing it. You have skills and assets that are to be treasured for the people of the future. Don’t waste it on something you physically aren’t capable of doing and hurt your preexisting skills and assets in the process.
If you don’t have it, don’t try providing it. Don’t promise something to someone if you are unable give it to them.
If you aren’t there, do what you can where you are and if you are unable to provide that’s ok. You’ll hurt others and block their path for being helpless if you stand in the way of someone that can help. Repeats to the top.
People seem to have a big Napoleon Complex these days, which is ironic, because Napoleon even held beliefs of limiting himself to bombard harder in the future. I think it wasn’t until the end when he threw away those old beliefs did he start falling apart to the point that he got sick and became bed ridden to die….
I would love a novella that actually depicts Frecklewish that way, instead of having to piece together information given to us via a narrator that believes she can do no wrong.
Give it a name like Frecklewish's Grief, and have her go down a spiral, like how Mapleshade did
But a glimmer of hope for fans show when she finally realizes something during her final encounter with Mapleshade
Innocent kits died the same way her brother did, all because they happened to have riverclan blood, and during their final moments they had no one to defend them, not even their mother, who clearly cant think of anyone but herself (she loves her kits obviously but not enough to find a better solution) and that if she didnt lash out with grief, there would've been a chance for her to stop her father from exiling the children and preventing their deaths. Mapleshade would still go crazy because her kits are in thunderclan and not her, but they would've at least been alive.
oh and then she would volunteer to go to the Dark Forest due to the guilt of it all
Honestly... Genuinely asking... Why do people believe Mapleshades novella is unreliable? The book is from a 3rd person POV... Mapleshade isnt even the narrator. So why would the erins write it through an inaccurate lense? If Mapleshades book is unreliable just because shes a villain, how do we know any other novella or super edition is reliable? They all could be biased and skewed.
Personally I dont see the book as biased at all. Mapleshade isnt even the narrator, she isnt telling the story. The story does follow her, but we see things from an outside perspective overall.
In the beginning, Mapleshade didnt even hate Frecklewish?? Frecklewish loved and cared for her kits before the real father was revealed. Sure, Mapleshade was made uncomfortable by Freckles assumption of who the father could be, but she didn't dislike her??? She only grew a hatred for Freckle because... You know... She created the idea that their father was the previous deputy, and physically attacked Mapleshaded when it turned out to be untrue. Before all of that they were on decent terms.
I mean honestly... What is there to twist? Frecklewish and the others did some messed up things... But so did mapleshade. And the book isnt afraid to make that known. Its realistic. It feels like a pretty accurate telling of a clan acting out due to betrayal and grief, a mother loosing her children as a result, and taking it out on the cats she personally views responsible.
The book could have done WAY more to twist things in mapleshades favor. But it didnt
@@puppiekit ikr they go on about people only believing MAPS and stuff but the second any popular warriors youtuber (moonkiti and akira) claim something by twisting the book they just go along with it. (see the claim that mapleshade was always a bad person and used her kits and only loved aplle as a possession, none of these have any evidence in the text. it was made up by two popular people who hate maple)
Honestly I want to go write a fanfiction about how Frecklewish ended up in the DF by accident and a false ruling from StarClan, only to find her way out sometime in the Broken Code (haven’t read it so no spoilers) and eventually confronts StarClan about their decisions, and how they should be more fair and clear about the rules of the game, since you can’t win when the goalposts keep getting farther away. For example, a cat who did nothing when she had no power to save kits ends up in the DF, while a cat who openly tried to murder at least five of his Clanmates gets sent to StarClan. I might actually write this if you guys want. I’m just that angry at this.
Honestly, I WOULD LOVE THIS!
I support this. Frecklewish does not belong in the DF.
Okay I've said it once and I'll say it again: How in the name of StarClan has a side character from a novella been the cause of so much debate? Perhaps if the warriors team decided to put more cats who neglected/harmed kits (Rainflower, Ashfur etc.) in the dark forest, it would have been a SLIGHT justification
Rainflower didn't actually let a kit die or anything(neither did Frecklewish on the basis that she didn't have the ability to save them), so I feel like putting her with murderers feels a bit out of place
ashfur never harmed a kit, all of the three were warriors by the time the fire scene happened.
@@uglyfense7754 Rainflower did "neglect a kit in pain or danger" though, and allowed her children to do dangerous things even before the accident. I think she's absolutely a codebreaker.
@@yawninglion1677 I mean, I guess she technically did break the code, but it's not like she was willing to actually let Crookedkit/Stormkit die, so I feel like while she is a bad person, she isn't evil enough to be lumped in with people like Mapleshade, Tigerstar, and especially Brokenstar
And for your second argument, while I do see your point, there were warriors around who could have saved him, and tbf, you can die when biking on a road too, but kids biking is pretty common.
Yeah, she isn't a good person by any means, but I feel like she isn't bad enough for the Dark Forest, as she didn't ever try to intentionally kill anyone
@@uglyfense7754 Yeah, that's fair IG. Same reason I disagree with everyone about Oakstar, he didn't directly hurt the kits either.
There is still Lizardstripe...
It’s so dumb, sometimes the warrior cats team doesn’t even sound like they would actually care about those factors
When it comes to star clan an the dark forest I think there should be a middle ground like the wondering wilds or something we’re cats who tread on the line or wonder until they either choose to wonder forever or lean closer to star clan or the dark forest depending on there reflections on there life an how they treat the wondering wilds an the cats of the wilds could send them either way an some can choose to stay there an both star clan an the dark forest can visit so it’s a good meeting place for families split between after lives as well
That would be cool
YES!!! Characters shouldn’t just be “good” or “bad” there should be an in between
Its called limbo.
@@godzilla657 yeah but do they call StarClan heaven??
not to nitpick but its bothering me so bad that you kept typing “wonder” instead of “wander” 😭 i hope i dont sound rude btw
Let's assume that Frecklewish actually did those things that the Warrior Cats Team claims she's done, and truthfully deserves to go to the Dark Forest. Even with this assumption, it's still extremely irresponsible for the Team to essentially retcon a book published nearly 6 years ago (in a way that actually weakens the original plot), and to respond on their website with a very rigid opinion that shuts down any open discussion about redemption.
Now, taking into account the actual readable evidence of the events in the book, as well as the knowledge that Mapleshade's Vengeance is written primarily from Mapleshade's POV (unreliable narrator trope), It is impossible to find definite proof that Frecklewish was callous, non-remorseful, and that "all her love turn(ed) to rage and hate" toward kits. On the other hand, the contrary can be reasonably observed and that she is remorseful about the death of the kits. It is clear that the person(s) who've decided to upload the response on the website must have likely misread/misunderstood the novella.
I hope I'm wrong, but I fear that there are some future plans to have Frecklewish appear in a future book as a Dark Forest warrior, hence why they're doubling-down on their opinion that she should be placed in the Dark Forest. Not sure how they'll back out of this one, quite the hole they've dug for themselves.
Overall, this is quite a tragedy for the Warrior Cats Team. The fans are finding themselves in a place where measures of "justice" are unfounded and thus becomes immoral; like sentencing an innocent person to death row without absolute and clear evidence of their supposed crimes while only going on what is assumed.
actually it isn't. mapleshade's vengeance is third person limited which means it uses a narrator that tells events that happen in the story but only focusing on mainly one character, the narator in mv tells what the characters do as well as mapleshade's feelings and thoughts. mapleshade herself does not narrate this story. she thinks to herself. the only time she is "unreliably narrating" is when she is thinking to herself. and about frecklewish, since mapleshade does not know everything, she only knows what the apprentice who gave her herbs said, and that was that freckle saw the kits in the river. the actual narrator in the story doesn't seem to be unreliable, simply and unbiasly telling events as they happen to mapleshade. mapleshade herself is an unreliable narrator, but this is later on and she is narrating to herself, trying to justify why it's ok to kill three cats. she does this because she hallucinated her dead children telling her that they could not go to heaven until she avenged their death. maple never wanted to kill freckle until she was told that freckle had seen the kits in the water. mapleshade has no way of knowing that this might not be the whole truth. and why should she belive freckle the woman who to her watched her kids die and attacked her in front of said kids shortly before.
think before you speak the lot of you.
@@XxEmpty_EscapexX693 ...Okay, and how does that prove Cuyut's point wrong? Mapleshade's beliefs aren't the issue here, the issue is the writers taking her beliefs as canon even against Vicky's (the literal author's) own statement and intent.
@@yawninglion1677 what statement and intent? links?
@@XxEmpty_EscapexX693 Can't link in TH-cam comments because it gets considered spam by the server. But Victoria Holmes said after the novella was released that Mapleshade's victims all went to StarClan. Her intent was for them to be sympathetic, or at least not evil enough for the Dark Forest, and since she was literally the author of the story I'm gonna believe her over some random website staff. By putting Frecklewish in the DF with this reasoning, they're literally taking the side of the cat meant to be in the wrong.
If they make a Frecklewish novella or super edition just to villainize her, they surely realize that literally no one but the MapleShade aapologists will consider it canon, right???
no. i will.
@@XxEmpty_EscapexX693 so you’re saying you think she deserves it? They’re giving a message to kids that if they refuse to jump in 7mph rapids to save someone instead of letting trained professionals handle it, that they are a terrible person, which is a genuine SAFETY HAZARD.
@@XxEmpty_EscapexX693 name and pfp checks out
@@Angie_Ashf3rn lol no? wtf is your deal? I'm saying that whatever turns out to be cannon is cannon. freckle is a side character in a novella set in the past. don't see why it matters now unless they plan to use her in the main books.
@@mayormingus ? ohhh sorry i forgot about this vid lol
flowerpaw went after birchface and drowned, frecklewish would be right in assuming she'd end up the same way, not to mention that birchface was her kin and it's evident in the story that she's still grieving and possibly traumatized from the event. why would she go in?
And your not even supposed to go into water to save a drowning person. You are much or likely to die with them. Frecklewish learned his first hand and anyone who has taken a first aid course (or has done two seconds of googling) knows not to go into the water to save someone drowning.
Literally put a dude who helped kill Firestar AND attempted murder on 3 cats in StarClan. But put FRECKLEWISH in DF because SHE DIDN’T DROWN HERSELF. Frecklewish didn’t KNOW that the kits died, like stated, she SAW Riverclan and she thought they would be saved. Also, Appledusk went to Starclan and he watched Freklewish’s brother AND an apprentice drown?? So if they try to app,y this, AppleDusk should ALSO be in DF. I’m disappointed in what warriors has come to.
THE WAY AKIRA SAYS “bye everyone” HER VOICE JUST SOUNDS SO SWEET I LOVE IT
Isn't Akira a boy....? I'm sorry, the voice mixs me up, I mean no harm...I'm horrible at figuring out who's voice belongs to who, whether boy or girl.
@@Equine_Daydreamer nope, akira’s a girl :)
@@blkeggh111 thank you, that was confusing me :)
@@Equine_Daydreamer More specifically, she's Assigned Male At Birth and is making the transition. :)
time for the head canon that frecklewish was sent into the dark forest because she was confused with another cat that looks a lot like her and did murderers, that was also named freckle wish
It’s basically Thistleclaw all over again. The readers didn’t understand why he was in the dark forest, so the team made him a manipulative “kit” predator in Spottedleaf’s Heart. Why though? What was the point? Just say he went to the dark forest because he trained there and he was mad about not being made deputy and felt betrayed. Him preying on Spottedpaw was…beyond uncomfortable and out of character for him. It didn’t need to happen. Now, anyone who likes or did like Thistleclaw is considered a bad person by members of the fandom. Good job team. Good freaking job.
This article just makes my blood boil in so many levels like I’m just so disappointed in the story team like wow, this whole article is just filled with information that was never in the novella or contradictory to the novella not only that but also feels hypocritical and it feels like a middle finger to Vicky like that novella was written by her and she probably the one who knows more about the book since she wrote it, she said she believes that Frecklewish is in StarClan then I’ll take that as canon cause she made the character and wrote the story not this bs of a article, I will never and ever believe this article and I will always believe that Frecklewish is in StarClan rightfully so and this is for some future plot for a future book then they should have created a new character or used a character that existed already and is clearly evil. Now that I think about does the story team even read the past books because of me they don’t
And the thing is it's ONLY frecklewish?? like, Oakstar was the one who EXILED THE THREE KITS IN THE FIRST PLACE, a blatant example of breaking the code about protecting kits. But nah, he's in starclan probably.
And friendly reminder- If Oakstar never and I mean, NEVER exiled the kits (and possibly Mapleshade), then the kits wouldn’t have drown, and Mapleshade wouldn’t have become a murderous cat. There’s a good chance that Frecklewish couldn’t do ANYTHING to help the kits, and yet they send her to PONS (Place of No Stars).
The logic of Starclan
@@allwatchsomeshitpost Tbh i feel exiling mapleshade was fair enough, she had blatantly lied to the clan about pretty much everything. But the kits? They didn't do anything wrong, all they did was exist. He should have allowed them to stay. Perhaps had another cat raise them.
@@sparksoflife5290 on Oakstar:
Him being in StarClan is fact. He gave Pinestar a life, though I can’t remember for what. I’ll see if I can find the quote.
Edit (with quote): “Then Doestar stepped back, and another cat approached. Pineheart felt his heart lift with joy at the sight of the broad-shouldered, glossy brown tom. Oakstar purred loudly. ‘I always knew you would be leader one day,’ he meowed. ‘I give you a life for judgement, for knowing which path to follow, however hard it seems.’ This time the force was sharper, more painful, stiffening Pineheart’s limbs and making him yelp. Then it passed, and his legs stopped trembling.” (Pinestar’s Choice, Chapter 5)
But yeah. Oakstar being in StarClan even though he was the one technically responsible for leading 3 kits to their death is dumb. Frecklewish being in the Dark Forest for being upset that she was lied to is even dumber.
Except isn't there a part of the code that says the Leader's word is the code so I guess that gives them a pass? Which is dumb, but it's a loophole.
So, at first, I thought that Frecklewish deserved the Dark Forest 100%. But after watching all these videos explaining it more and more, I see now that she doesn't really deserve to be there. Kinda hope the team will go back and maybe fix this if it has enough backlash, but I highly doubt it.
If (and I use that lightly since I don't see any other cats doing anything that breaks the code) any cat from Mapleshade's Vengeance deserves the Dark Forest (other than Mapleshade) it would be Oakstar. I mean he did more to condemn the kits to death than Frecklewish did.
I swear they have something against Frecklewish
Nah it’s just that they like to kiss up mapleshades ass 🤓
@@thenyan3095 You are amazing-
@@mightyleafster I am?
I didn’t know sating the truth made me amazing /j 😌
@@thenyan3095 yep
I would respect it if only Appledusk, Ravenwing, Oakstar and Duskstar were also in the DF
Just the Thunderclan cats for me. Appledusk and Duskstar are innocent of all the crimes involving putting the kits in danger
OK BUT NOBODY’S GONNA TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT MUDCLAW AND ASHFUR WERE LET INTO STARCLAN (you could argue that mudclaw was misunderstood and all that but ASHFUR?!) BUT FRECKLEWISH SOMEHOW WAS PUT IN THE DARK FOREST?! LIKE, WHY?!
If Frecklewish is going to the dark forest for breaking one piece of the code, what about practically anyone else in the series? All the forbidden romances, all the cats who killed anybody, etc.
I'm convinced that the writers don't look at their books anymore
also if frecklewish is in the dark forest with mapleshade, I'm surprised she wasn't killed yet
Russetfur also broke rule 12 in Sunset
I've said it before and I'll say it again- this feels like doubling-down when reasonably proven wrong. The post reminds me of when I used to see kids in Warriors RP games yell at people for being a leader and also having kit-age kits, and then decide that Leafstar doesn't count and actually now that an example has been brought up they have to hurl insults at anyone saying the leader doesn't have to permanently resign. Of course the article isn't calling the readers unloved half-wit doodooheads or whatever, but that same spiteful "I already decided to die on this hill, stop being right" air is present. It'd be understandable if it was like, a _child_ who wrote Frecklewish into the Dark Forest, but these are presumably full-on adults who likely have children that are in an age group where Warriors would be in their school library. It's frankly embarrassing.
I’m waiting for the day they make an article saying this whole thing was either Mappleshade hacking the website or some rouge intern.
That would be funny 😂
@@user-pr6gn2un8z *The Warrior Cat’s Story Team Epically JKs After Backlash Over Controversial Character Decision*
If we are going with the 'she belongs in the Dark Forest because she neglected the kits in danger' line, several other cats in the book and in the series at large should be in the Dark Forest. Ashfur, Ravenwing, Darkstar, Oakstar, Appledusk, Russetfur, Rainflower, and several others. These cats have shown zero regard for the lives of kits/young cats just as Frecklewish has been accused of, yet these cats reside in Starclan. The only way I could see this work with the canon material is if Starclan made a mistake. But if going off of retcon lore, Starclan could be sifting through cats to decide if they really belong in Starclan and kicking out those who don't belong. Honestly so many other cats in Mapleshade's Vengance alone could have been Dark Forest cats, why pick Frecklewish?
I love how the writing team is like “Ashfur tried to kill kits but he failed, so let’s put him in StarClan! Frecklewish saw Mapleshade slip and didn’t do anything? SHE NEEDS TO GO TO THE DARK FOREST!!!”
With this logic so many cats from the main series (that went to starclan) would end up in the dark forest. A decent amount of main characters would too.
We the readers have the ability to use context clues and deductive reasoning. If Frecklewish saw Mapleshade crossing the river to leave the territory and fall in after she was exiled /with her kits/ and told to leave the territory with them, it's reasonable to expect that she saw or at least considered the kits as well, and for the audience to have the intelligence to infer this whether its explicitly spelled out or not. The code was about kit negligence and leaving them in danger, not necessarily directly harming a kit yourself. Theres also the point that characters can still... lie when they say they don't mean to cause other characters harm, whether directly or inadvertently, and about other things. Lying was a very prominent thing in this book.
Its this weird narrative disconnect between whether the team wants the warrior code to have flaws and grey areas the characters face and contend with, vs presenting the warrior code as perfect and divine and black and white. Its really strange to see two simultaneous conflicting stances in both books and team/pr statements without them seeming to be aware of this core issue or trying to reconcile it at all. Like you can't just say "this is canon now" if the books directly contradict that. Well you can but... this situation is the result. Its a bad decision for the longevity of the series in so many ways.
Also this is low key encouraging terrible swimming safety and potentially horrible survivor's guilt in a series that's ostensibly for kids, like wth
Poor freckle'wish didn't deserve this
I imagine both Brightflower and Lilywhisker talking to Frecklewish like: “First time?”
:points at russetfur, hollyleaf, Oakstar, Ashfur, yellowfang and skystar: I rest my case.
In real life, if a rescue team was around, someone risking drowning would give them another potential victim to have to save. You give rescuers another person to have to risk their lives to rescue, and that endangers yet more lives! Admittedly, I don't really like Frecklewish. But this is a TERRIBLE AND DANGEROUS lesson to teach to kids. As someone who works as an online freelancer, I want to think they just outsourced this article and paid some desperate writer so they could have a job. I don't want to think the writing team is this mean-spirited.
So if someone was bleeding and they turned to you for help, would you run, watch them bleed out, or try everything in your ability to keep them alive until real help arrives? Laying your life down for someone else I think is the most noblest thing you can teach the next generation. If anything that's the first step in teaching people not to be selfish but be selfless. If firefighters, Police Officers, and Military thought the same way you do, what kind of world would our children be in today or tomorrow? There is something gratifying and uplifting about saving many lives by helping others make it, rather than just a single person saving themselves. But if laying your life down for someone else is a problem, than I'm afraid for what our future holds.
@@mickeymouseclub333 I think being willing to lay down your life is an honorable thing to do. In fact, the way Frecklewish treats the kittens when the truth comes out is part of why I don't like her. It's just when you know putting your own life in danger might further endanger others and there are people around that might have a better chance to rescue someone, you may want to step back and let them do it. I mean, I understand. When someone is in trouble, someone is going to want to help. But at times, they have to know if they may be able to and if they might make it worse if they try. It's difficult to narrow down what one is supposed to do because circumstances can vary in situations like this. Help if you can, but don't if you know you'll make things far worse, and try and find help if you can. There's not enough evidence to tell us if Frecklewish wanted the kittens to die. I just felt the implications of the article were a little horrifying.
@@FireKAT91 That makes sense. But in the oath every warrior takes it implies that part of being a warrior is to "defend and protect, even at the cost of your life." But I like you said, we don't know enough to make a solid judgement.
@@mickeymouseclub333 I know this was a while ago, but I still feel the need to reply. There's a difference between bravery/nobility than just...stupidity. Police, firefighters, and military are specifically trained to deal with certain threats. Regular normal people are not. If someone on the ground is bleeding, sure I could attempt to help them. That situation isn't dangerous. But if there was a crazy axe murderer right behind them, you can bet I'm going to run. I'm not trained to deal with such things and doing anything else but running would get my life taken away. Plus, one of the first things usually taught to people within the life saving business is that you are to not engage if it is not safe for you to do. Lifeguards won't save people drowning if the chance of them getting their own life taken away as well if too great. If police will not engage if they are not properly equipped for a situation and will be told to stay put. Firefighters won't enter the building if there are extreme ventilation issues or the structural integrity of the bulding is compromised. Even the military has to cut losses. People get left behind during retreats, medics might stay put instead of rushing to someone injured if it is not safe to leave cover, ect. There's a difference between being brave and just straight up being suicidal. Even the bravest know when something is lost cause. After all, if all the people willing to put themselves in dangerous situation got themselves killed, there'd be no one left to the jobs.
Old Writing team: Heres this book, its the last one we'll write sorry :(
Us:aawww.. Well atleast we'll have memories of past books you wrote and correct artticles.
*new* writing team:Lets make the articles incorrect!
FreckleWish shouldn’t be responsible for MapleShade’s actions or her kits 😒
I am PRETTY angry with the writing team, but I really love this series. However, I feel the purpose of the books being written in the first place is being forgotten since Vicky left…
Using their logic Firestar should belong in the Dark Forest. Because when Bluestar was drowning Mistystar and Stonefur helped her to shore but Firestar was also their neglecting another warrior. I know I am sort of changing part of the warrior code but I think we should help anyone that is in need of help.
I wish they give a novella on Frecklewish's point of view.
Its kinda like the Juniperclaw and Hollyleaf thing, Hollyleaf intentionally killed a cat and still got into Starclan. The worse Juniperclaw did was try to poison a cat, tho he made up his actions by saving a queen from the same clan that cat was from and Shadowsight and still ended up in the dark forest, tho im glad they are letting him have some justice by being a pathway guard.
Starclan seems to be pretty faulty. Though some cats end up in the dark forest out of spite, even though they havent done any actions that are bad.
"Aggressively hugs frecklewish"
Honestly Frecklewish situation sucks. Like Russetfur didn't help Berrynose (kit at the time) when he was trapped in foxtrap and somehow she got to Starclan 🤨
But anyway we should probably focus more on the how indigenous people are stereotyped and the racism in warrior cats. Not saying you can't be upset about the Frecklewish situation.
@mrdoe97 What? That has nothing to do with my comment
When the ones in charge of the series itself start ignoring their own books and ignoring the sentiments of their fans, it starts to send the signal that it's time to leave the fandom entirely.
At 7:20 or so, that is like with Jayfeather and Flametail, is it not? And yet… we know how that went.
Personally, I’ve never put too much stock in the site, but I also don’t always take book canon 100%
Someone who has been in the fandom as long as I have is likely to have noticed trends in which the fandom more or less accepts something as canon despite it either not being decided in canon, or even outright opposing canon. Warriors is a large universe at this point and, honestly, it’s been beyond the control of even the original Erins for YEARS now. The fandom more or less has the power at this point, at least to an extent.
This is the main reason i left the books. Its so frustrating to read the injustice happening and all the adult tantrum the team trows. I just want to go back when the books where actualy good
Guys the article wasn't written by the writers, cuz obviously the writers wouldn't write something as dumb as this, it was written by Mapleshade
ooh, Akira starting (or fueling) Drama? That's interesting.
I don't personally think Frecklewish needs to be condemned into the dark forest. Can't say she was a perfect cat, but the Riverclan patrol would seem capable enough to save kits in my mind - and as I stated in the last video's comments section, the Warrior Code did not include anything on kit's safety until AFTER Mapleshade's murders, at the end of which she was already dead. As such, unless she was since chased INTO the Dark Forest (which.. who would do that, Mapleshade? Who was already IN the Dark Forest?) then she likely was/is in Starclan.
They might as well send mapleshade to star clan, ya know since we are taking mapleshades side of the story now all of the sudden.
Literally, I wanna 100% bet the team are mapleshade apologists
@@mightyleafster probably, it’s the only way I can think of for them not making points against most arguments and borderline lying or at the very least Changing the context of what Frecklewish said.
@@kay9dog344 Yep
"There are no easy answers.... EXCEPT FOR RIGHT NOW"
I feel like the warrior cats team put Frecklewish in the dark forest because there are so many Mapleshade fans. And Mapleshade is a big fan favorite. Mapleshade hates Frecklewish, so do fans.
Also, I feel like so many people complain about that there are no Female villians besides Mapleshade. So the Erins threw Frecklewish in the dark forest.
Next, THE ERINS ARE PROBABLY GOING TO THROW MAPLESHADE IN STARCLAN FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.
I think Maple is a good villian, but she is not my favorite
Yes yes yes! I Agreeee! Sol is my favorite, I dont understand Mapleshade simps or obsessers.
To be honest, Mapleshade apologist, simps (seriously why is this a thing, I don’t understand) and obsessors scare me a lot brr
Ashfur is my favorite villain, but I always have to explain that I think he's a horrible evil person who deserved the DF just because he has so many apologists... I feel for anyone who likes Mapleshade as a villain
They could have pulled an ashfur in reverse
Like how ashfur after all he did went to starclan after dying
Frecklewish could simply have been put there for; being the cause of mapleshade decent to madness and not recklessly throwing herself into the river to help the kits.
Like how starclan wasn’t going to let leafpool and squirrelflight into starclan for their stupid reasons
Starclan is a bias not so holy place and the cats in charge are often hypocrites due to them have also been breaking the code multiple times in their lives and have gotten away with it
Maybe starclan is grasping for straws for a reason to see maple and freckle fight, maybe they didn’t want maple to somehow escape the place of no stars to get revenge so they sent freckle there to keep her entertained with her anger
Me, and my two friends is roleplaying warrior cats together. We realised there was a lot of cats who was too bad for starclan, but too good for the dark forest, so we came up with a place in between. We call it the middle ground.
They could have a place that looks like the real word (no eternal summer with prey running everywhere), just like the ghosts who roam the lands. Or maybe they could literally have a 'ghost clan' territory somewhere for Tree and Rootspring to discover!
@@windylue6206 Yea. The place we came up with is foggy and there is a few preys running around. The cats in The middle ground can enter the dark forest, but not starclan.
Victoria said Freckle is in StarClan, I’m sticking with what she says because this is complete bs.
I feel like aside from the response this is typical Eren Hunter Retconning and the like, however this sudden and quick response as well as frecklewish's sudden addition to the darkforest, if she hadn't been killed a second time for maple, I feel like she may make an appearance soon in the series. I can't see why else the quick response to fans being upset like this, esp seeing they are probably decently well into writing the next series with first books to hit in a few months, AND she's suddenly in there AND we didnt see her there despite spending so much time there. So unless killed by mapleshade a second time, *I don't see why such a detail would be added in now, and for this decision's backlash to be addressed and attempted to be stomped out so quickly*
I wonder if she would be redeemed, I mean the ending to broken code seemed to paint starclan somewhat bad there and potentially delaying that plotpoint, if not she's just evil, idk, I don't personally care other than addressing this may become a plot point later. One way or another. Be it she was killed in the dark forest and somehow gets reincarnated or something or what.
Personally I think she's at least partially guilty, (not trying to get maple to stop, treating the kits that way in the first place and like the other warriors letting the kits be exiled with her, not getting help, etc.) but as it stands I think starclan's judgement is terrible and have for a long time. There's hardly any good rhyme or reason why many cats get into starclan and those who don't currently. So forgiving in some cases, unreasonably so, and so unforgiving in others. It's stupid, they're stupid. It's all stupid, but I digress, I feel like something is coming down the pipelines that they felt it nessecary to add frecklewish into it and defend that decision so hastily.
That explains why I can’t log in..I thought that was my WiFi. Guess it’s everyone.
Frecklewish isn't innocent ( I mainly hate how she called the kits creatures and attacked maple Infront of children. Despite her griefing and upset, it's not an excuse to treat children like this) but she should've gone to starclan. There are far worse characters who are in itty bitty cat heaven such as rainflower and lizardstripe who put kits in danger and abused them. Also, russetfur is in starclan despite watching berrykit get caught in a foxtrap (maybe it's because he's not a clan-born, starclan doesn't like those.)
I just wish the writing team had left it without an response. There are other things that should've had a response to, such as cultural appropriation/indigenous which many people brought up concerns about, or even how the tribe is written. Heck, even a proper response about brambles abuse would've been better, although it's not as important as the first. I honestly don't get why they chose to change this out of anything else. Should've just left it as how it was
Thank you! This is my opinion exactly. I definitely don't feel Frecklewish deserves a harsher punishment than the horrible death she endured, but she also really shouldn't be praised, either. A lot of people say she's done nothing wrong, when that isn't true: she attacked Mapleshade in front of her kits, dehumanized them, and aided in their banishment which led to their death. Sure, she was grief-stricken and in shock, but those only serve to explain her actions, not justify them.
But yes, the Warriors "story team" or whatever they're calling themselves now should definitely have kept quiet about the whole thing, especially with how volatile their fanbase is. (And, to be clear, fans of a work are allowed to criticize that work when it's due, but a side character in a novella that means pretty much nothing in the grand scheme of the series, but can maybe serve as a bit of unnecessary backstory insight if you squint? It's a little ridiculous to get this torn-up over, in my opinion.) It was just overall a bad move.
@@badweather4cast agreeeeee
Ah yes, a lady who is unable to swim and doesn’t dive into a raging flood to save children she cannot see nOR HEAR because it is is dARK AND RAINING deserves damnation when a man who was complicit in murder and the training of children the same age as the drowning kits is given a debate…. Lovely ✨
"She was too busy being murdered!"
Idk why that made me laugh so hard XD
I was going to read the books, but seeing how the treat the only she-cat that did the least damage... seems like a bad idea.
I think the funniest part is that this whole time i thought we were talking about the Skycan medcat Fidgetflake and now i finally realised who it was and it makes way more sense
The story team now are just a bunch of... how do I word this.. overpowering and cruel, I just wish that the story team could JUST EVAPORATE and get replaced by reasonable people! If only it were possible for us to decide the plot for them. I COMPLETELY DESPISE THEM.
Alright, Since some people are already stating that many other cats broke the code, I’m gonna add some of my info.
To begin with, FreckleWish only broke one code due to anger because of the death of her brother, and MapleShade’s mate, AppleDusk, murder him. (Forgot FreckleWish’s brother name-) Besides, BlackStar murder StoneFur by an order from TigerStar; which also leads to BlackStar breaking a code or two.
Another thing is, many, many, many cats broken the code ( Cats are not aloud to mate with another cat from a different Clan), and all of them are basically in StarClan. Also, BlackStar was a follower of TigerStar and BrokenStar until both of them were killed. Later on, BlackStar some-what became leader and serve ShadowClan like a Normal Leader. When he dies, he gets into StarClan, which I find wrong. But if we go over to DarkStripe, who was also another follower of TigerStar, he actually fed SorrelKit deathberries because he wasn’t thinking straight. He gets exiled and go’s to ShadowClan. During the Battle against Scourge, he gets murder by his Half brother (aka GrayStripe), but somewhat goes to the Dark Forest. (Also, BlackStar leaves with BrokenStar when he gets exiled from Sc.)
I could go on, and on, and on with many other code breakers, but I want to see what other People think of my comment.
One thing, it’s technically spelled like Blackstar and not BlackStar.
I know some people like spelling it BlackStar but i just look at this and think “there is way too many caps in this comment”
@@az1202 Well yes, I was trying to quickly rush this comment and didn’t have enough time to change it.
@@hrtsamelia19 ok
Obviously Frecklewish is just a scapegoat for warrior cats writers to use when people point out that Mapleshade shouldn't have been the only cat to go to the dark forest in that novel, and heaven forbid that a male character gets punished for their wrongdoings. So the fandom can spend more time fighting about Mapleshade vs Frecklewish (neither are good cats but Freckle deserves better) than spend time pointing out how warriors treats their female characters like garbage and stole from/mocked native tribes in their books, especially when it revolves around the tribes or any cat culture outside of clan culture.
honestly super conspiracy theory level and pessimistic thinking, but a part of me wonders if they arent rushing the login breaking so as to not have the justified reactions to the freckle article and such an hope that itll blow over and they can try to further support "their obviously correct" version and opinion with that
It's never mentioned in the books that Frecklewish is in the Dark Forest, and with how few cats exist there, you KNOW that she would have been mentioned had it been intended from the start. Unless Mapleshade killed her ghost or something, she should be there, and I feel like they would have mentioned her being killed through some level of canon material if that was intended.
But it wasn't, it was never intended for her to be a villainous cat worthy of the Dark Forest. This is reminding me of JK Rowling adding things that clearly WERE NOT in the original texts. I'm sick of this, I'm tired of this. The people who wrote this article DID NOT CARE. And for all I care, this article and the ideas presented by people who didn't even write the only book Frecklewish appeared in are not viable sources of manipulating canon.
Frecklewish is in StarClan. I don't care what the team says, she never did anything wrong, she was never shown in the Dark Forest. It would be easy for her to blend into the ranks of thousands of StarClan cats than to be with the ten or so in the Dark Forest, especially considering that all the other characters who are not Mapleshade are canonically in StarClan and we have never seen most of them, if any.
TLDR: Frecklewish is in StarClan and I don't care what the team says.
I mean Vicky, the original author of Mapleshade Vengeance, said she thinks Frecklewish is in StarClan, for years the fandom thought she was in StarClan, so -beep- the writing team I’m going with Vicky route and say Frecklewish is in StarClan
I just wanna say that considering Ashfur got in Star Clan I think it's clear to say that good versus evil isn't the deciding factor on whether a cat goes to either place. Meaning ya'll getting worked up whether Frecklewish deserved it or not... when that's not even an issue here. Fact is, there's bias in both Star Clan and the Dark Forest and being there doesn't mean they're good or evil. Just saying, ya'll needta chill. 😅
Maybe they should've said that StarClan was biased, instead of saying "she hates kits and is evil" then? We're going off what the article literally said, not our headcanons about how it happened. She went to the DF because, according to them, she's evil. (And, before Broken Code, Ash was in StarClan because he "loved too much", and that was canon back then.)
@@yawninglion1677 I think it's up to interpretation and the article team definitely doesn't encompass the opinions of all the writers. I just don't understand everyone getting worked up over something that happened in the books so much you're raging against the writers. They've made questionable decisions before and it's not going to stop now.