really really wish they brought the badge system from WotLK back, that feeling of "damn didnt get my drop but i can at least get this from the vendor" helps ease the terrible gear drop droughts that you will just mathematically run into at some point.
They've said that the WotLK emblem system was overly convoluted, so I'd assume there's no plans to bring it back. By the end of Wrath, there were 5 different types of emblems, of which 3 were only obtainable by downgrading higher emblems, so I'd tend to agree with them.
@@WhiteKidd000 All they have to do is make it so you get a certain amount of Badge X from content. Badge X drops higher amounts the harder the content you do is. Each time a .5 patch/new raid tier rolls around, the iLvl of the drops from the Badge X vendor increases to match. Badge X's still drop the same amount from content and there is no new currency to deal with. However, the amount of Badge X's you had in your currency tab is lowered by a fraction each time a new tier comes out so you can't just stockpile badges from one raid tier and then be in mythic raid gear in a week.
@@WhiteKidd000 Valor/justice alone are such a good system that it's the basis for the currencies for Final Fantasy XIV A regular farmable currency you can catch up with some gear on by farming dungeons/content (Justice points), especially from daily dungeons A weekly capped currency from higher content that allows purchase of the better/almost raid difficulty gear (Valor, usually from raiding/daily dungeons) Especially if you used them to incentivize normal/heroic dungeons on top of mythics even after the gear from those themselves aren't exactly desirable anymore, on top of the regular raiding/m+ content, could do well to solve some of the gear gaps people have and also make things much more deterministic.
What continues to baffle me is that the devs have had 16 years of experience with the player base and they still can't figure out what the sweet spot for gameplay or loot is. Every xpac it's change for change's sake.
@@carlstahl3000 i'm going with they design like this on purpose. you know what? so people will praise them to heave when they annouce we are going to buff loot drop from m+and raids ..and we are going to give you BADGES system and upgrades to catch UP on your alts :) now that is a marketing strategy
I think clearing Torghast should get a spot in the vault where the ilvl of the reward scaled with the floor you'd cleared. I don't mind if it's lower ilvl than other stuff, it would still give some sort of "single player progression" or progression outside of m+ and raiding, and it would make Torghast feel more rewarding.
Because it makes people have to log in more and for longer, driving up metrics to show investors, you getting gear doesn't matter, they just need to find the sweet spot of making it take aslong as possible with the lowest amount of people quitting to drop feed enough upgrades to keep people coming back.
@@Orapac4142 i was running heroics and getting no gear spending hours and hours the RNG and gear drops atm are pretty bad it starts to feel like I'm wasting my time and then i lose interest. there definitely needs to be something to bridge the gear or a way to collect X points to get gear for PVE faster. great observations about this creating false metrics and analytics cause it feels like they are realy trying to squeeze every last hour our of you.
My problem with gearing comes from other players mostly. When I try to pug a raid or M+ people who see my 192 gear level turn me down, which is reasonable. But when I do finally get into a group after 15 minutes of applying and get most raid bosses down or several M+ runs finished and don’t even move up an item level, it isn’t helping my chances of getting more groups. I get denied from groups because they want someone already 200ilvl and the groups I do manage to land I get no loot to improve my further odds. And it’s just a downward spiral.
The gearing is a pain in the ass. I didn't get to play for a week and a half because myself, my daughter and my husband were very sick. My CE team has moved on and though I have played 38 hours over 2 days, I haven't moved a single ilvl. Still waiting to see if my husband has COVID. Might as well take the rest of this tier off. It feels so punishing if you "miss time off work" so to speak
Even with a 202 IL, I still get declined by a lot of groups, likely just because of my class. Which, hey, is fair, but also incredibly frustrating. Any class can DPS well if played right, but since M+ basically requires some sort of Lust and Brez, there are a lot of classes that are going to be turned down just for not having the utility, irrelevant of player skill.
@@Decayuss And there is IO-score on top of that. I'm a MM hunter with 207 ilvl and a decent io score, which is around 720 rn. Even then its a pain to get into a 10++ group. Hear alot of complaints about the current state off loot/lfg.
Yeah, Ive been saying this since I hit 60 tbh, the amount of loot is mostly fine, but we really need a Justice/ Valor system in place to offset "bad luck" and make things feel a little better.
It would also make running random dungeons worth it. I havent queued random on any of my toons this expansion. I queue to the specific ones that I want loot drops from and just spam run those. It gets a little frustrating when you've run it 20 times without the weapon you want dropping but I havent gotten mad at the loot changes overall, cause it feels good when ya get it. Plus a color vendor would be lovely for my enchanter that's not running raids or m+ lol
I totally agree, make runs matter, i dont care if its a ludicrous small amount of currency dropping at the end of each run, but they have to make it worth doing in the first place. The anima thing they have right now, that aint it! XD
They do want you to be done, when you have full BiS. I guarantee you that you were NOT done with your char in Eternal Palace or any tier with Titanforging, and wouldn't ever have been in 8.3 without the vendor. 100% you weren't.
@@billymays9296 at least we wanted to play the game. now we don't, we don't care what how done our chars are, cos we are done with our chars, fuck this boring mess, if i wanted classic id have played classic, far to many other games in my back log now to put up with this shit.
Its crazy to me as someone who loved Mythic + this never getting any drops. I have to really keep to pushing myself to keep doing something so unrewarding
Personally I think gearing has been far too focused within spamming mythic+ and the fact it has less effect on end game gearing is a good thing. If they gave you loot in the way that they did before with no titanforging you’d have your BIS almost immediately.
@@tbc8954 yeah, but if you want to get good gear you need a decent guild for heroic at least and for someone who didnt play bfa and doesnt have logs its impossible to find a guild because god knows where to look for it
I feel this. That was my point in anger from them removing bonus rolls, I ran Ny'alotha for over a month getting no loot from bosses only getting things from bonus roll or trading.
Exactly, this is not raid or die. If anything it feels like raiding is too much time and effort for almost no reward, and easier loot from the vault doing M+
I’d like to see a token system. Get to the end of M+ get a piece of gear? Great, no token. No drop? Okay, here is a token. Currency for gear/weapon purchases.
Just my thoughts, really. Based on item, e.g. weapon like 10 tokens, chest/head/pants like 8 etc. Maybe cap tokens for week so you cant get all gear in one week and its done
FFXIV has sort of token system. Like every week you clear a boss you get a book/token that's guarantee even if you don't win loot rolls. And with certain amount of books you can buy a piece of loot that otherwise would drop from that raid boss. Like jewellery costs 4 books, pants, gloves and hat costs 6 and chest or weapon costs 8 books. So you can 100% buy raid gear after 4th week if you haven't gotten any loot. It's not perfect system by any means but it works alright.
I think the devs see the Great Vault as being a sort of "guaranteed upgrade" source. The problem with that is you have to wait for it once a week and it's RNG.
I'd even take it in m+ token tiers. 2-4 keys for a 190, 5-7 for a 197, etc. Just something would be nice. Been stuck with 184 weapons that were given by other players since week 1 and I want cry.
I don't think anyone actually asked for less loot per source, they just wanted fewer sources. I'm a non-raider and thus didn't have an issue with titan forging, but I understand why it needed to go away. It feels like a large divide between the "haves" and "have nots." If you have a guild and/or friends to play with, you are set and the world is your oyster. If you are in a dead guild and play mostly solo, there is very little for you to do other than wait for your Covenant story to progress so that you can upgrade that gear. Is Mythic+ worth the time investment at this point? I don't really think so, and if it weren't for the Great Vault, I'm sure it wouldn't be. We need some sort of currency so you always feel you are progressing towards the next piece of gear.
I feel same with playing solo. It just happened that I am new to wow. I've tried to go hardcore from day 1, but boy I've missed few days on raid release and I cant find any group or a guild that would take me. I did 6/10 normal, but getting to heroic or even finishing last 4 bosses in normal, is impossible. No one takes me. So my only option now is to do low m+4/5/6 (because getting to group that does like +8 is impossible) and prey to rng gods to getting something decent or just do pvp (I am new to wow, and not very interested in pvp, so you have to imagine how fkn bad I am)
The problem with M+ (other than low loot count) is that I have found that the gear required to time a key is generally higher level than the rewards from the key.
@@protess5 What he means is that to complete a +7 which rewards ilvl 200 in time to get credit for the vault practically require an ilvl200+ group (especially on tyrannical weeks) so the chances of getting a meaningful upgrade from the dungeon itself are already very low before we account for the low drop count making it that much worse.
But... Isn't m+ fun? I mean the gear to me is just a bonus, I grind rio for fun, I play the game for fun. If you don't like raiding, and you think M+ isn't fun, just a means to get loot, why play the game at all? You only need gear for those 2 things. And no I don't pvp
I feel you. haven't gotten anything from key runs so far... Some kind badge thing would be good... get enough level X badges and you can turn it into an item... Now if you have bad luck, you get nothing. I mean I don't want rapid gearing, but when you have done many runs and you have nothing, there is no progress. Doing some M2 runs forever is not fun and going up without actual gear is not happening. For me the fun comes from challenge... there is no challenge doing easy M2 forever, and without better gear no one will take you to higher M+. No matter how good you are.
@@cloudz9383 I also do not PVP and had great fun in the first few weeks in m+. For most people doing M+, effort+reward=fun. If you do a high key and do not get loot it looks like 10x Effort + 0x reward= less fun Now let's say you do 10 high keys and get one item 10x(10x Effort + 0.1 x reward)= not worth it
M+ is garbage to begin with, at least PvP is always changing. Doing the same thing day in and day out sucks hardcore especially dungeons. We need a return of the mage tower or something with real challenge worth doing. Unfortunately torghast WAS that chance but babies who thought it was too hard complained to the devs and got it nerfed to the point it’s a joke. Not to mention Torghast was so unfinished it became a sad copy of M+ instead of the randomization it promised.
Every single bit of content I did this week, whether it was world boss or raid or M+ gave me anima or gold. It would be amazing to have those guys drop a few valor tokens so all the hours and consumes I dedicated to it could go towards choosing a piece of gear from a vendor in the future. No RNG from the vault so MAYBE i'll get what I can use, but something I can actually use.
Yet another reason Wrath is so highly regarded. Gearing felt great, and you never felt like you were wasting your time, even if all you did was heroic dungeons.
As much as I loved wotlk, sitting in town, waiting for que to pop up so I can get tokens so I can get better gear THAN THE RAIDS was just boring. There was nothing else to do. Right now, if you don't do raids, you don't get the best gear. And that's fair, since raiding is where you will need the best gear. Mythic+ is and should be focused more on pushing your limits, not a pinata full of gear.
By having this low drop chance of loot, you also get this terrible snowball effect where there are SOME people who get the absolute best they could get and get an enormous item level. While you are still stuck below. A friend of mine played mythic with some of his guild members. But he wasnt lucky with gear as the others, so they stopped doing M+ with him cause he wasnt geared enough like the rest. Now we get this situation where people who were lucky are able to directly start playing high to maintain high and higher item levels. While people at the bottom are struggling more and more to climb. So some back up system would be nice. Something to beat the mean 'ol RNG
badge gear would fix this for me like something on par with normal raiding maybe even a +7 giving a different badge that gives heroic raiding equivalent wouldnt be the first time they had 2 diffrent kinds of badges and one being infinitely grindable and one with a weekly cap
Yep. What very little gear my DH has been able to loot in all the raids and m+ I've done, is worthless Mastery pieces...so it's like yay terrible loot. Wonder if Ill actually get decent statted pieces
@@the1bizkit my Dh would like it, hes an enchanter lol. I feel ya though but people have been really cool about trading tradable gear this expansion, even in lfg and lfr. It's a nice change in that regard.
@@TauEnjoyer It certainly is. Although I do PVP for funsies when bored, and not to grind out gear. Either get CE or Glad, don't have the time/patience for both heh
Something needs to happen, my main has been grinding so many m+'s and gotten nothing and raided full clear since week 1 with 0 drops at all. Even the chest from Pvp has only been slightly useful. I don't even want to think about working on an alt because of the gear. I am honestly burnt out from it already.
I have been desperately trying to get a single drop from one dungeon, 19 runs there on keystone above level 4... And nothing. Worse then that, I can't even get it to drop on normal mythic, or on a +2 or +4... It just feels like I'm bashing my head against a wall for nothing.
Just don't do it man. Grinding any one dungeon for any one specific loot piece in recent expansions is madness and guaranteed to make you despise the game within a month.
@@danielstarr8957 Yeah man it sucks. I have done maybe 10 spires to get a few pieces and NOTHING DROPS. NOTHING. I also did about 7 Mists to get the trinket and NOTHING. It is fucking horrible for 35 anima.
Lemme guess, De Other Side. The fact that the dungeon has 4 fucking bosses with several BIS trinkets for several classes is frustrating. On top of being a grueling slogfest of a run compared to Halls or Mists, and you have the Siege of Boralus of this expansion.
I want a valor or badge system like in wrath. I don’t care if it takes a long time to get the items, but it would have been fun to be able to build up badges or points and then buy an upgrade, and then when you finally get enough for another piece, you have to decide if you want to upgrade your existing one or buy a new one to fill another slot. It doesn’t matter that it takes time - that’s fine. I’m also sad that world quests are so useless now. I loved world quests. I liked that they reflected my own achievements and progress. Now they’re completely pointless. Same with professions. They do literally nothing.
I saw this in mythic + week before heroic week. I haven’t played since then. I can’t be assed to waste my time hoping and praying I’ll get something decent when I could be doing 1000 other things that provide much better reward for investment of time.
It's remarkable how they had a functioning system almost a decade ago, and are now just fighting their decision to move away from it because some designer thought it was "clunky" and "messy". They are creating problems that need not exist.
Every guy at blizzard has to put their "mark" on the expansion. How else can they get a raise/promotion? I agree with you that it sucks they have to reinvent the wheel over and over again.
If there is one thing the current dev team has consistently shown, it’s stubbornness about reverting poor changes that they made to the game. The only time they do so is when they can do it quietly and save face by doing it as part of a major systems overhaul. The devs egos is the current game’s greatest flaw.
I have always said that Ion is the worst thing that’s ever happened to the game. I do not think he thinks like the average player. He’s a very intelligent person who might be too smart for his own good. Very intelligent people can be so smart they create things that no one asks for and use their quick thinking minds to justify it with some lofty and convoluted explanation. That’s what wow gearing is.
Exactly, i remember preach did a video a while ago, it might have been the "gear monster" video lol where he linked a video of one of the old devs talking about wrath days, and the dev actually said that the thing he hated most was wraths gearing system and the thing he was most proud of was the LFG system, I mean c'mon ffs, how out of touch with the community do you have to be to hold opinions like that, why cant they just do what works instead of constantly trying to reinvent the wheel. They have said multiple times at blizzcon that they agree that it has swung too much in terms of RNG and they need to rein it in a bit, all they have done in SL is reduce the amount of gear we get, they havent done fuck all about RNG, yeah we dont have titanforging or corruption anymore but now the RNG is whether you even get a piece of loot instead of whether its actually any good for you. BRING BACK VENDORS FFS BLIZZARD!!!!!
So have many other people and doing that, Great Vault is nothing more than a weekly BfA chest. I was amazed when I heard about the vault in beta and thought it would provide 3 choices for a single M+ run and just be a straight improvement over BfA but no. It's grind 10 M+ every week, clear a raid every week, or get the same one item disappointment as before.
I disagree, the vault looks and feels amazing. Every week i get a reward of some kind on both my main and alt that is a massive upgrade. I too quite doing m+ as it is just not worth it but instead i picked up pvp so i get a choice from those as well.
@@richardheizler8273 Looks and feels? So do casinos mate. Specific experience doesn't really matter here, I was just pointing out that the system requires you to spam a lot of content weekly for every character otherwise it's nearly the same as BfA.
@@richardheizler8273 The Vault is a terrible replacement to badges. It's horrible. I've gotten one replacement so far. Even with more choices I get repeats.
@@richardheizler8273 My vault so far has given great rewards. Issue is i have had to grind 10x the content in order to get them. The vault to me only "feels amazing" because the drops/items outside the guaranteed loot feels beyond painful. I ran mythic+ 15 times last week and got 1 item, i did the raid on normal and first 2 bosses on heroic and got 0 items so when i opened my great vault and got 1 upgrade it felt amazing because getting 1 upgrade that week took me an awful lot of time. Does the vault feel amazing because it's actually a great system or does it feel amazing because for the entire week you're sinking time into pointless content wasting hours for 0 gain?
What a timely video. I was going to start working on an alt until I realized that I haven't even managed to gear up my main despite endless M+ spam, how was I gonna actually gear my alt up...
Mythic raiders at the moment, are most definitely NOT swimming in loot, as bosses drop 3 pieces of loot and like 2% of guilds have cleared more than 3-4 mythic bosses.
??? bottom end just gets full 184 gear, crafts a legendary and is happy. There you go. They sit at 190ish ilvl which is fine. They dont even need more gear since they dont do more challenging content. Simple logic, really. They log in do some pvp, do some dungeons, do some low keys and logout for the week. Hell, some even raid normal. They have literally no complaints right now.
I feel like for M+ if they just added one more item to the chest, we'd be fine, I ran 8 M+ today, I got nothing, fine, rng is rng, but it feels so unrewarding, the items I have got this week have been slots that I have better or ones on my leggo slot. From the start of M+ coming out I've done about 80 dungeons give or take a few, and not one weapon drop, really? And please, for the love of fucking god, remove that god damn 35 anima, it's insulting. Oh you did a +15? Well here's a pat on the head. Gtfo
Like, sweet jesus, just give us some gold. If we're doing 15's we are dropping thousands on repairs and consumables. Giving 1k in the chest a the end wouldn't be OP, it would be the *least* they could do.
Your experiences are a sufficient sample size. On the other hand, I have gotten plenty of loot. Just because YOU don't get anything doesn't mean EVERYONE doesn't get anything
Finally, I thought it was just me, I've had one useable piece of gear from the vault but it has the wrong stats and is better for a spec I don't play. All I hear is, "Shadowlands is so great!" So why do I feel so, like, what's the point? I have kept this to myself. I ran 19 mythic plus dungeons since reset and I've had 3 drops which I gave to our enchanter to crush for shards, the raid has given me 1 item this week. Why can't we have tier sets and earn tokens again so I actually feel I'm working towards something? Gearing from BFA to Shadowlands is like the difference between scratching your arse and tearing it.
In all seriousness, why is everyone focusing so much on secondary stats. I had a guildmate who was complaining that they got a 10 ilvl upgrade with the "wrong" secondary states, when the sims still said it would increase his DPS. He was just being salty that it wasn't the "best" upgrade he could have gotten. Now granted. I understand if you get an upgrade that is 3 ilvls higher and the stat weights it's not a power increase, but still.
TL;DR You feel secondaries in the moment, while primaries are mostly seen in analysis (sims and logs, for instance). @@JC-ok4yx secondary stats are much easier to feel than primary stats for most classes/specs. Haste and crit, at least, with versatility coming in once you get large amounts and mastery when it's important for your class (Ignite for instance). There's also the fact that getting the wrong secondaries can drop your stats and therefore negatively impact this feeling, especially when stat budgets are very small. Losing a piece with haste on it can cost you 2-4% haste, which may not seem like a lot but it's really somewhere between 10 and 20% of your current haste. Whereas losing 10 armor or 15 intelligence or 20 stamina isn't as noticeable because those only matter when you're either taking damage or wiping to an enrage (as far as PVE goes). Meanwhile every cast or attack reminds you of your haste, every big damage popup reminds you of your crit, etc. It's really hard to feel the difference between a 9.5k shadow bolt and a 9.6k shadow bolt, but you can tell when it crits.
@@JC-ok4yx I'll tell you why. The sims may tell you it's a DPS increase but that's only under perfect conditions. If you are competing and one guy has the wrong secondaries and the other has a perfect balance who will win? If you're aiming for mythic raiding or high mythic + secondary stats matter, even if you're not a good balance is much more optimal than say, every piece of gear having your two worse stats on. What you're saying is like two friends go out for a drink, one likes beer the other likes bourbon, the only bar in town only has cider but the barman (you) says, "Hey, it's alcohol and well it'll have the same effect, don't be so fussy and drink up." Guess what that bar is now out of business. The point I'm trying to make is if you're constantly rewarded with crap rather than occasionally getting an item that fits your build you start to think and feel like what's the point.
does anyone else just not like raiding at all and only do mythic + like me? bc the way gearing is right now makes me not even want to play and im not accepting the "just go do a raid" no. i wont force myself to do something i do not enjoy at all to be able to do m+ .. the only thing i enjoy.
I don't give a fuck about gear. I love the current system. I push high keys because I'm a gamer, and like high scores. IO has its problems, but fuck man, timing a new 15 and seeing your ranks boosting is amazing. Similar for raiding. I like progress, specifically progress from gameplay. For too many tiers I've felt my first kill of a boss was because we just got more titanforges than last week. We made the same mistakes, its just now we can out heal it. CN is a tier where you just need to git gud and I fucking love it. Badge gear would be a mistake because youd quickly have the badge gear. You'd still need to raid to get bis. We could have gear upgrades tho, like the old valor system, so people have an incentive to do 3-4 m+ runs per week.
I leveled my Mage and got to 198 i level but wasnt really feeling it. Decided to level my warrior and once i got to 60... i dreaded it. The renown catch up was easy (do mythics. pvp drop rate is nonexistent). But i got to 60 and it was like okay....gotta do the campaign now....oh chapter 3 is available now gotta do the quests..again....oh chapter 5 quest chain...again....and we're only in renown 15.. Imagine 40? Got to 60 and then had to do the quest for the Maw....and torgast...damn gotta start at floor 1 obviously in torgast too......Quest for the runecarver ah yes forgot about that. Conduits! forgot about that..they dont drop from PvP so gotta farm dungeons! 9 callings 0 gear...huh....I feel like the repetition is insane. This is only 1 alt. Imagine if you have various or want to experiment with other classes and you find yourself doing the same quest chains over and over *cough BFA* and over again?
My first weapon was 207 from the vault after doing a +4 I think. I do like this change, even if I didn't get gear, it makes it feel meaningful and rewarding when you finally get it, instead of non stop gear that you cycle through.
World Bosses should guarantee an item. It's once a week do it. Why don't we have Justice/Valor vendors so when you get nothing from M+ you can at least purchase an item. They need to also improve WQ items. The game is enjoyable when you are improving consistently. I always felt like when I had BiS many expansions ago the game finally felt great. You could then finally enjoy the game. We need to get to BiS faster and it needs to feel better.
I was stuck with a 155 normal dungeon dagger and a 155 dagger I got from picking pockets. It happened early and felt good, but after weeks of grinding mythics and M+ and still having 155 daggers, I was ready to sell my soul for an upgrade.
The loot system is awful. I read an interesting forum post about how the current loot system will fail, it had really good points. Loot needs to have a bit of longevity to it if it's locked behind such a grind, otherwise the return-on-investment is just bad.
Lets not forget the other side though, where gearing was so easy there was no reason to do difficult content other than for the "fun" of it, since rewards were practically meaningless
this is exactly what i said when they announceed the m+ ilvl changes. there need to be some incentive to do it . honesltly a m+ currency that upgrade ilvl would be fine weekly capped
I really think it's just a fear on their part that if people gear too quickly they'll quit between patches, but every time I've got my main into good gear I get interested in trying other classes in good gear. That's how I discovered how much I like mage and warlock.
100% agree. I almost made a mage ult to have fun on other classes but considering how many mythic+ runs im doing on my priest there is no chance im doing that again on an alt so instead of actually playing the game now i log on and do my weekly and 1 mythic+ then log out.
I ran theater of pain 17 times for the polearm. It still has not dropped and only 2 pieces of gear has dropped out of the 17 runs so I have to keep going. I'll bet I'll have ran it 50 times before I actually get that polearm. Zenji-Hakkar
I’m in a small guild that doesn’t have enough players wanting to raid, but have been playing since vanilla - I’m not going to leave my friends to join a raiding guild to get upgrades. We have enough people to do Mythic+, but if that content isn’t viable we’ll all be out soon.
It's funny that when they had the most subscriptions and the most players yet they refuse to implement one of the things most liked about gearing in the expansion. I was a pvp and dungeon runner before wotlk when that came out the badge system was able to help me get gear that started me raiding. My small guild of 10 was able to eventually down LK. And it all started because we could get badges to get gear to help us progress.
I have these days when I'm playing WoW and I *really* do not feel like playing with anyone, and just want to go do something solo. Kinda feels like right now, that just means I can do very little worthwhile things.
Honestly in addition to the less loot it would help cause too many people hate or honestly are to bad to pvp for conquest like I’m a tank main and don really care for pvp anymore
I seriously wish they did this. Make it where raiding gives you more and more. But you can still do m+ and gear effectively. Even PvP should go back to grind honor to get gear. Or even let them gear PvE with the same valor/heroism currency. This would make alts even more enjoyable and just worth while. I just hate how gearing is currently. Heavily into rng and then the rng can just be, "nah. you get nothing good." Kind of makes me wish Blizzard would just remove gear and let us play the game with skill.
So that people can start to complain that gearing is so predictable and just a math thing. In 2 weeks I have enough badges for this piece. And it makes all drops on the way there feel bad. You have been saving up for new gloves, the boss before you get your last badges you get new gloves, that are an upgrade, but worse than the ones you can buy... Shitty feeling.
@@ijustownyouall I would rather have predictable gearing than going a whole week and getting 35 anima or relying on other's better RNG to gear me up. At least I feel that I'm getting progressively better and better
@@Lowaver but you are not progressively getting better. You are just collecting stuff until you can buy the upgrade and then you get the additional power. Just like a drop. Just you know when it is coming And with all currency you get the endless cap or no cap, catch up, no catch up debate. Should it be capped? Then you have the problem that people who play a lot don't get anything out of it and complains about timegating. If you have catch up people will complain about the catch up. There is no perfect system and everything has ups and Downs
This is a good video to watch for those of us who were undecided on getting SL. I'm going to wait and see what they do about gearing, loot, and few other systems. Thanks preach!
I completely agree, Preach. I've done a ton of content only to be disappointed at both of my vaults the past 2 weeks. I'm also in a gear grind as well...can't seem to get drops...still wearing M0 gear trying to do AOTC and getting into mythic raiding after new years. Feelsbad.
So, in a nutshell, Blizzard nerfed the loot so that split runs wouldn't be too prevalent and the raiding tier would last longer, and it backfired: the top end guilds still did split runs, the world first race was over in two weeks, but the average player is just getting frustrated by not having meaningful progress for doing mythic plus or PvP, your only reliable source of loot is your Great Vault. So they aimed at the top end guilds and screwed the average player. Who would have thought this would happen? Lmao
They didn't nerf loot as a counter to split runs. They almost never make a change just for the sake of the high end especially if it impacts other players.
@@aldarana8483 acording to Ian's interview back when they announced that the loot was going to be reduced, split runs was cited as one of the reasons for reducing the loot, to "Increase longevity of the tier across all levels of play".
@@aldarana8483 What are you talking about? If you followed the Shadowlands update news while it was in beta, a LOT of the changes they implemented and that players had to talk them out of were because they wanted to reign in the top players. There was a huge discussion about Torghast becoming timed, like an m+ because blizz was afraid that 1% of the people would wait for their bloodlust to get off cooldown to have it for every boss once they got to the really high lvls. It was a monumental effort to convince them to stop being stupid about it and potentially ruin the experience for everybody, just because they wanted to stop a problem that was in their head to begin with. Its the same with mythic nerfing. And its silly because the top players will always find a way to outsmart them and still get the gear they want, and all this achieves is for certain activities to get ruined for the mid - low - casual tier players. In fact ...blizzard has a notorious history of balancing their games based on top 1% performers across >all< their games. Look at starcraft or overwatch and how one trick that gets invented by a high lvl guy competing in a tornament gets nerfed immediately because blizz is afraid that others will try to copy it. Nevermind that others wont have the skill to use the trick to the same effectiveness..it needs to be removed.
The only reason i’m running m+s is to get more rio (last week i did more than 35 m10+) i’m not expecting any loot from them cause most of the times they’re useless. I play a fucking lot, i’m doing last 2 bosses nm 10/10 hc and 1/10 M every week but i’m still 206 ilvl, some of my guildmates are 210+, some 200+. I don’t get this massive disparity between players who put the same amount of time into the game. That’s what i don’t like, they reduced the amount of rng with loot (no titanforge exc) but they pumped luck factor which is rng, isn’t it?
"to get more rio" so basically, the 3rd party website/addon is more rewarding than the game itself lol. i'm a graphic designer over here having more fun with elvui and weakauras than shadowlands. cheers
I'm really enjoying the curve of gear, Our guild just cleared 10/10HC and I'm sat at 208ilvl, every bit of gear feels like an amazing upgrade! I feel for more casual players though as I get that the rewards for honor gear or WQs or M+ are fairly low rewarding
Like someone else said, Badges of Justice would be amazing if they brought it back - I haven't been playing lately but I still keep in touch with my mate and she ran 12 mythics and got nothing. Hasn't been back on to play since because of the time investment with no return.
Reinstating Badges would be great. Use those Legendary Item templates to infuse items with w/e so so can fill in those slots we can't find upgrades for.
@@scottfree6479 Stagnation is death. Without constant change the game would have fcking died along with all the other mmos years ago. Before you twist my words, i do not support the weekly cache, never did. I hate m+ and miss justice and valor points. But take this food for thought. Change is always necessary in almost every part of life.
The lack of loot has me thinking of quitting the game again. I've been in this loop of your ilvl is too low to raid go do m+. I go do m+ and get no loot, I go kill the world boss no loot, I go kill the bosses in raid finder no loot. I have to stack all leather wearers that have a higher ilvl in an attempt to get better loot given to me. This game does not feel fun....hell Runescape feels more fun right now.
The only place my friends & I want to see change in the loot system, is m+ rewarding higher ilvl & maybe more drops. The ilvl part is the most important for us. We don’t like that our main content is our worst gear reward (outside of the great vault). We currently get better gear doing our weekly arenas than doing +15 keys. We currently get better gear from HC raid than doing +15 keys. Is not +15 keys somewhat harder than HC raid & 1800 arena rating??
Follow up: Currently +15 dungeons are way harder bc if our overall low ilvl. In pvp you might be in a more similar ilvl to your opponents, where that isn’t the factor in m+. Later in the patch a +15 will be way easier. But I still feel like the rewards from m+15 dungeons should be somewhat higher
I’m up for some currency system in m+. But I think that you have to “gate” the items in some way. Maybe items can be locked behind timed dungeons, so you can’t spam 8+ and buy a 15+ item. I don’t know, but I must say that I love the game in the state as it is
Maybe you could lock loot tires behind the keystone conquerer and master achievements. It would then also make people do duengons that they dont normally do so they can unlock the next 'tier' of badge rewards.
You could have it that the gear you can buy is based on what badge/currency you use, but the currency type you get is tied to what tier of key you have completed (and even how well you do like timing or how many chests). So 1-6 might be justice currency, 7-11 might be another currency, while the 12+ might be the highest currency, and if you say do an exceptional run you get afew currency of the next tier as a bonus.
@@mattemattics5667 that's his point though, Valor was the equivalent of Conquest in PVP, but they abandoned it like they did PVP Vendors, which led to the Titanforging bullshit.
In the same boat, havent bothered to even log in this week and dont care at this point whats in the vault. Zero raid drops and out of 50+ m+'s got 2 items, its not worth my time.
@@tsdrum2016 I feel you, drop rates were ok in the beginning when we were all blue, but I had to do over 10 Plaguefal runs to get either boots or chest, got one still 171 on the other...
I think Blizz is like a Monkey's Paw. Careful what you wish for. They gave us more gear options in the vault, but made every other piece of loot outside of it disappear.
all those people complaining gear was too easy to get, got their wish now, i do believe preach even made those comments. now it has come. blizzard has always said " you dont know what you want, we know what you want" and we always say, "nah we know what we want" and when given it we complain
@@JDmix123 and water is makes things wet, wind is air moving, and the sun makes light.. we can state obvious stuff all day it means nothing when it comes to blizzard... becareful what you wish for every single time with them is what we say, but no one listens on those forums demanding change.. doesnt matter if one thinks blizz can give them "balance" or not.. what matters is when you wish for a change blizz makes you pay for the change in some form of sacrifice and they always have and always will
I’m on 21 runs of +6-8 dungeons and have had 1 piece of gear drop in the last 2 weeks. I’m honestly just done at this point, I’m not investing my time into something I’m not getting anything out of. My friends are in the same boat as me, it’s become so demotivating to actually do m+ even with friends.
I am really vibing with your comment. I have been grinding the shit out of M+ as well and just got lucky that the rnd member traded the loot to me or otherwise I would have gotten nothing. And its not even calculating in all the time wasted for lost keys where ppl just leave and you have to do it all over again....... I havent done any m0 or m+ with guild members bc its so frustrating or they only run lowkeys where I wouldnt get any upgrade as well. I have quit the game now.. maybe Ill come back with the new patch or some changes..
I am so BAD at PvP but I’ve really enjoyed buying a little upgrade from the PvP-vendor with the little conquest I’ve been able to get. I think that a m+ currency and vendor would feel great, if the currency dropped in the dungeon and NOT in the weekly vault. I also think this change would make more people want to finish dungeons even if they’re not going ”great” ^^
I dont think id say it feels like a waste but the latter part 100%. Not everyone runs 10 mythics a night farming for drops blizz and im not really that casual myself.
Was super excited to open my vault last week. My choices were: A neck I already had, a ring I already had, or a belt I already had. It was unbelievably deflating. There's no reason to let that happen.
They should decrease the drop chance of an item type in the vault if you already have a piece of the same ilvl(or higher) or a legendary currently in the slot until you wind up with all the items in your slots having an equal ilvl or so.
That's a bit much. you could just blast +2's and fill up your anima for no effort. maybe anima that scales? like 35 anima per level instead of per dungeon?
Last week, two of my M+ vault items were items I already had and I already had something better for the third so the time spent doing M+ was completely wasted. Either increase the number of M+ choices to 5 so we have more chances of having useful choices or make it so the three choices are guaranteed to be an ilvl upgrade so long as you completed sufficiently high keys to get three possible upgrades. That way, you are nearly guaranteed to have an ilvl upgrade each week until you are maxed out on ilvl and all you have left to do M+ for is crossing fingers for max-ilvl BiS items.
Think you nailed it. Was wondering why I don't really want to do much in the game lately - "reward/time invested" feels too low. Pugging got really bad: 1-2 wipes in an m+ run and ppl leave - nobody wants to invest time for 1 item. Have a small group that we run with a couple times per week, but we do not time all the keys so end result is kinda meh. After a couple weeks we already 10+ ilvls behind raiders even though we seem to know quite a bit more about dungeon mechanic compare to those ppl (I run with some raiders as well). In the end just feels like going hard in anything, but raiding is a way to get behind :(
Being stuck on 184 ilvl from honor sucks when everyone you face are 200 ilvl plus. 197 ilvl honor should have been released this week or at least this coming week
@@TerentiusD i'm not saying that necessarily, but essentially your friends are leaving you out of having fun over gear on a video game that you might not be even playing next year? i don't know, i just find it kind of a dickmove to leave your mates out of anything
YES. Why the *fuck* does crafted gear top out at 168? What the fuck is that? God, remember the few craftable epics in classic, or the ones from BC? They took commitment to make. They had a long quest chain with it and time gated materials, but when you made them, they would last till mythic raid. Crafters should be able to make 220 pieces for themselves, I don't care if it takes 4 weeks, but let them make something for all that grinding.
it feels like theres nothing there tbh. iv got time to raid maybe maybe once every other week, really enjoy m+ but i cant keep up with my friends because gear only comes from raids. the main issue i have is that i dont see why i should pay monthly for a game thats not updated every month and when i do play, everything is on a gate or lockout every week.... why pay monthly for something thats so full of lockouts?? its an utterlly insane and unjustifiable cost proposition......... what are you paying monthly for? nothing........
what if they also dropped soul ash, and then you use your key + a base gear to upgrade an item like the legendaries, so say you have a mists item and want to upgrade the ilvl from m9+ to m15+ i use my mists (at least) +15 key and soul ash (still weekly capped) and a base 210 ilvl to upgrade the item, it allows you to get at least one or maybe two extra targetted items per week?
It's actually so frustrating that you can never share gear. With my prot pally, all i get is stuff that has crit on it which my friend needs, and he gets items with the stats that i want. But we can never trade. It's so dumb. Another friend spammed the same dungeon 20 times this weak, because he's still wearing a blue chest piece...and yes, he is STILL wearing that. Guess raiding would be the best we can do, but we don't have a guild and most people that open a raid are already only looking for people with experience, even on normal.
If you're a tank and want to raid, learn to DPS or heal. Not trying to be mean, I'm a prot pally myself, and the easiest way to get into a raid is to respec. Raids scale for all roles except tanks. Can bring multiple healers and DPS, but you can only ever have 2 tanks per raid. A raid of 10 people? 2 tanks. A raid of 20 people? 2 tanks. A raid of 30 people? 2 tanks. Respec in raids is the way. Just set your loot spec to Prot. Healing especially because our DPS isn't that desired as melee. Try it.
People cannot expect m+ to be the loot piniata it was for many years, it would just break the gearing system and force everyone to participate in m+ for the third expansion in a row.... The badge system is fine if you have a weekly cap on how many badges you can acquire, or it's going to be another loot piniata
Agreed. I think the rate of drops is fine, but the M+ gear ilvl needs to be increased. Timing a M15 is legitimately MUCH harder than killing a HC CN boss. MUCH harder. It should award an appropriate ilvl.
@@Emajenus totally disagree, they should nerf the max reward to +10 so there is no point in doing higher unless you do it for fun. This way your problem of its harder than HC will be fixed, m+ gear should always be lower than hc raiding regardless of difficulty. If they increase the ilv more than hc raiding then it will force everyone to do it, I do not understand how you can agree with Aurelio and say they should increase it, zero sense.
@@SleepyJoin how does this logic not work the other way around, why should m+ players be forced to raid, there's already a higher raid difficulty than heroic that gives better loot than m+ and that's fine, why should heroic give better loot too ? just to make m+ players miserable? at the very least they should have equal loot
@@SleepyJoin You say that it will force people into raiding, but that's not true. It's flawed logic. You think that everyone will raid, but the truth is that if people hit a gearing wall and feel "forced" to raid, they are more likely to quit the game. People who don't raid usually can't commit the time to raid. Even I, as someone who has the time, don't want to commit to 3 hours twice a week with a guild. I quit Classic because I didn't want to commit that time anymore. Even if you force SOME people to PUG heroic, what's the point? Raid PUGs are entirely more toxic and a worse experience than M+ PUGs (10-14 keys). And the difficulty of a lot of heroic bosses is lower than the difficulty of timing high keys (10-15). Again, offer people options. Doing hard content should reward something good. If you take away the choice, the only choice becomes to quit. Which makes the game worse for us all regardless of the level at which we play.
I'm glad you posted this, I've very much been having that "meh" feeling outside of raid days. Get the weekly done, do the highest key I can, then ???? Takes me a day or two to get all that settled. M+ feels so underwhelming. They're challenging and all, but when you get 35 anima for it all it just feels BAD. I fully agree we should have valor or badges come back so I would have a good reason to play with friends outside of my 2 raid days a week. I really want to play WoW but nothing is compelling me to do so on my main.
Really sucks at the moment for me, unable to really play as much as I used to now uni is done. after doing my weekly stuff I might fit in maybe 6/7 m+s that are not even very high keys because I haven't been able to push my io up because of rl stuff I've gone last two weeks with no upgrades. I kinda want to quit playing I feel so behind compared to last expan
@@Matthiz I just feel less enjoyment from bfa due to this issue, where I could go run a few 15s or higher and get ok gear now I cant even run high keys because I'm not raid geared.
When the (infrequent) drops are hitting the right slots, the new system feels good and has the right pacing. When the (infrequent) drops are persistently repeats, or on your lego slot, the system feels horrible. That's as simple as I can put it. I have had a similar experience as another player in these responses. Out of eight epic drops in a certain week, seven of those items were rings.
For sure the rewards are feeling lacking. I dont want to have bis so quick. But i would like some kind of loot drop bad luck mechanic built in. I did 8 keys and only got 1 conduit drop lol.
@@SleepyJoin how about u work for your loot.. going back to being happy when u get loot.. classic was 40ppl doing raids and 5items dropped.. gl doing that math
15 raid bosses and 6m+ runs this week without a drop. I'm really all for getting less loot but going a whole reset without an upgrade does suck. It feels like the only reason to do content is to unlock that guaranteed piece of loot at reset ( which may not be anything exciting ). I have 3 full clears on CN Normal with a total of 2 drops. I have a total of 27m+ runs for 5 drops. By next reset it will have taken me 4 weeks to get conquest for a weapon. It'll take another 2 weeks for every piece of conquest gear after that. I don't like just capping everything and waiting for scraps at the end of the week.
@@S-AI6 hahaha like being a trial player in a Mythic guild for the first few weeks - here, have some bracers :). But at least once you pass your Trial you get the good stuff. Loot boxes can be bracers to the end of time.
It's shit even if you get upgrades from the vault. Getting an upgrade from the casino roll once a week and not from the actual content you're doing or at least from the vendor targeting a specific item is the definition of unrewarding.
@@omarcomming722 I got upgrades from the vault, but they are shit items carried by high ilvl. Getting to choose from 3 crap items doesn't feel rewarding.
What are your thoughts on "If" Blizzard added a Torghast option to the Great Vault? like maybe not the best mythic raid tier gear but like as good as Mythic 14-15. considering it's so unrewarding to do those Mythic Spams.
I ran enough tens last week for 2 220 rewards from my chest yesterday. Both were belts, replacing my 213 belt I got from the 4 mythics quest from two weeks ago. I really wish it was less random, like they’ve already made it a lot less random than bfa but what if I could actually target my bis stats in the chest? Haste does next to nothing for me rn, what it I could tell my chest “hey please give me something with crit mas”
i don't think blizzard missed anything. they intentionally milk the player base for as long as possible. and, they get away with it because players are addicted, and it's difficult for other companies to compete directly with wow
When players are talking about the intricacies of game design more than the things they've done in-game you know something's wrong. Which one have you been talking more about for years now? I think the answer to that stands on its own.
Tbh that's also directly related to age. I was ecstatic after killing Illidan when I was 15, now clearing a raid tier barely means anything regardless of the state the game is in. It's just a 16-year-old game that we've been playing for a long time. There are not many ultra exciting individual moments to be found while playing but it doesn't mean it can't be a great experience overall, it's just not mind-blowing like it was 15 years ago.
8:44 sums up so much of how I feel. I stopped playing 2 weeks ago when raid dropped because it invalidated everything I had and I don't plan to join a raiding guild. I went pretty hardcore in PVP because the gear was easily obtainable and upgradeable but this xpac is very hard on a solo player. all of progression right now is linked to team oriented content which is a major bummer.
I think another isssue in M+ is the size of loot tables. For example in theater of pain i have 14 items that can drop (excluding legendary's, and conduits). On most raid bosses i have 2-3, so this means when an item actually drops it's rarely the item you're looking for. In practice i worked out it will take over 2200 dungeons to get my m+ BiS, which feels kind of stupid.
We are 4/5 weeks into the expansion and I have lost interest in almost everything. As I am without a guild and have had some bad weeks with drops, I fell behind on gear and am no longer invited to anything. I haven't played this week, even without any holiday distractions. I have the time, i just do not feel like playing or trying to get a group together. As is, I am probably just keeping up with renown and ash until 9.1 and hope for the best after.
I am totally right there with you, I picked a dk (unholy is fun but I wanted to tank... And Mdps is not wanted)... I hit 195 and have no guild to do runs with and pugs are ok untill council and I can't get into heroic CN or any decent keys (no good clears means no go IO) it's a self fulfilling cycle of me getting left out and on the path to quitting the game. M+ NEEDS something to make it more rewarding... I have gone way too long without a reward on both completed and failed keys...
@@danlorett2184 not as easy as it seems, no one wants tanks and mdps is on a "competition for invites" most guilds I am trying to join... I am not 200+ so it's thought times for those who fall behind and don't have friends willing to gear feed
Depending on the server, "find a guild" can be a challenging position. I am on a small realm, finding a guild that wants my spec, raids in a schedule that fits my own, in which I also fit in, is a challenge. I had no issue getting into dungeon groups at least a few weeks ago, but because I am not getting any gear upgrades, I get left behind now.. in just a few weeks. After this it is just a snowball effect, no gear = no invites = no raid experience = kicks if you do manage to get in, but then do something wrong. Catching up is getting harder, and more of a chore. You feel pressured to get gear, so every run/kill you do not get a upgrade, you feel like it is wasted time. Especially if you have limited playing time available. Does the one time you get the upgrade then feel better? Probably, but does the wasted effort balance the effort, it does not for me. I have also seen people talk about being "done" gearing up too soon with the previous rendition. However, I feel like I haven't even really started, with no beginning in sight, let alone an end. I love the SL stories I am playing through, but the end game is no longer accessable for me. And that makes me sad and stops me from playing at all. And I am shocked how fast into the expansion that feeling is coming over me.
![It's Been A Rough Raid Week [TDP]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/02ZjRDv1bu8/mqdefault.jpg)
pugging mythics drains your sanity when you get 35 anima after 5+ runs.
Haha...
Imagine being a tank and doing +11 SD...
For 35 anima...
Haha...
@@Emajenus Im doing it. Still got trinkets from heroic.
try 40+ runs with only 2 worthwhile gear drop. then feel my pain.
@@RALYur3k Same here.
I hear ya 35 anima and -500g sometimes to..
really really wish they brought the badge system from WotLK back, that feeling of "damn didnt get my drop but i can at least get this from the vendor" helps ease the terrible gear drop droughts that you will just mathematically run into at some point.
They've said that the WotLK emblem system was overly convoluted, so I'd assume there's no plans to bring it back. By the end of Wrath, there were 5 different types of emblems, of which 3 were only obtainable by downgrading higher emblems, so I'd tend to agree with them.
I agree, but the justice and valor system.
@@WhiteKidd000 All they have to do is make it so you get a certain amount of Badge X from content. Badge X drops higher amounts the harder the content you do is. Each time a .5 patch/new raid tier rolls around, the iLvl of the drops from the Badge X vendor increases to match. Badge X's still drop the same amount from content and there is no new currency to deal with. However, the amount of Badge X's you had in your currency tab is lowered by a fraction each time a new tier comes out so you can't just stockpile badges from one raid tier and then be in mythic raid gear in a week.
I think a badge or currency system is better, least then you can get some kind of loot. Most other MMOs have some kind of dungeon or raid currency
@@WhiteKidd000 Valor/justice alone are such a good system that it's the basis for the currencies for Final Fantasy XIV
A regular farmable currency you can catch up with some gear on by farming dungeons/content (Justice points), especially from daily dungeons
A weekly capped currency from higher content that allows purchase of the better/almost raid difficulty gear (Valor, usually from raiding/daily dungeons)
Especially if you used them to incentivize normal/heroic dungeons on top of mythics even after the gear from those themselves aren't exactly desirable anymore, on top of the regular raiding/m+ content, could do well to solve some of the gear gaps people have and also make things much more deterministic.
I don't get how they are so adamant about draining the game of fun so o.o1% of the player base will have to spend 3 days longer for a world first
cause MONEY... you need to subscribe after all to play, they are afraid of giving player a BIS gear because blizz worry that they will loose MONEY...
What continues to baffle me is that the devs have had 16 years of experience with the player base and they still can't figure out what the sweet spot for gameplay or loot is. Every xpac it's change for change's sake.
Can't agree more. Everytime there is a system we can be happy with they either remove or it or change it to something unrecognisable...
Which makes you think either they are incompetent or they design like this on purpose.
@@carlstahl3000 i'm going with they design like this on purpose. you know what? so people will praise them to heave when they annouce we are going to buff loot drop from m+and raids ..and we are going to give you BADGES system and upgrades to catch UP on your alts :) now that is a marketing strategy
I think clearing Torghast should get a spot in the vault where the ilvl of the reward scaled with the floor you'd cleared. I don't mind if it's lower ilvl than other stuff, it would still give some sort of "single player progression" or progression outside of m+ and raiding, and it would make Torghast feel more rewarding.
Torghast isn’t even challenging anymore
@@Carlito_Brigante exactly. Even before it got nerfed, 5-ppl groups stomped them.
what blows my mind is the backward system, how are we suppose to do higher keys if we don't even get gear from lower keys.
Because it makes people have to log in more and for longer, driving up metrics to show investors, you getting gear doesn't matter, they just need to find the sweet spot of making it take aslong as possible with the lowest amount of people quitting to drop feed enough upgrades to keep people coming back.
this is so true
@@Orapac4142 i was running heroics and getting no gear spending hours and hours the RNG and gear drops atm are pretty bad it starts to feel like I'm wasting my time and then i lose interest. there definitely needs to be something to bridge the gear or a way to collect X points to get gear for PVE faster. great observations about this creating false metrics and analytics cause it feels like they are realy trying to squeeze every last hour our of you.
@@undercovernerd69 just curious: why would you do Heroics when you're already able to upgrade a full set to 197?
My problem with gearing comes from other players mostly. When I try to pug a raid or M+ people who see my 192 gear level turn me down, which is reasonable. But when I do finally get into a group after 15 minutes of applying and get most raid bosses down or several M+ runs finished and don’t even move up an item level, it isn’t helping my chances of getting more groups. I get denied from groups because they want someone already 200ilvl and the groups I do manage to land I get no loot to improve my further odds. And it’s just a downward spiral.
ilvl is one problem. Meta is another one, maybe even more upsetting i feel
The gearing is a pain in the ass. I didn't get to play for a week and a half because myself, my daughter and my husband were very sick. My CE team has moved on and though I have played 38 hours over 2 days, I haven't moved a single ilvl. Still waiting to see if my husband has COVID. Might as well take the rest of this tier off. It feels so punishing if you "miss time off work" so to speak
Even with a 202 IL, I still get declined by a lot of groups, likely just because of my class. Which, hey, is fair, but also incredibly frustrating. Any class can DPS well if played right, but since M+ basically requires some sort of Lust and Brez, there are a lot of classes that are going to be turned down just for not having the utility, irrelevant of player skill.
What mythic plus keys are you going for and what class/spec are you?
@@Decayuss And there is IO-score on top of that. I'm a MM hunter with 207 ilvl and a decent io score, which is around 720 rn. Even then its a pain to get into a 10++ group. Hear alot of complaints about the current state off loot/lfg.
They need a PvE "conquest" vendor, aka valor.
Yeah, Ive been saying this since I hit 60 tbh, the amount of loot is mostly fine, but we really need a Justice/ Valor system in place to offset "bad luck" and make things feel a little better.
This 100% needs to happen if tire sets return. There is no way we can trust the current RNG to get even a 2 set done in a reasonable amount of time.
It would also make running random dungeons worth it. I havent queued random on any of my toons this expansion. I queue to the specific ones that I want loot drops from and just spam run those. It gets a little frustrating when you've run it 20 times without the weapon you want dropping but I havent gotten mad at the loot changes overall, cause it feels good when ya get it. Plus a color vendor would be lovely for my enchanter that's not running raids or m+ lol
I totally agree, make runs matter, i dont care if its a ludicrous small amount of currency dropping at the end of each run, but they have to make it worth doing in the first place. The anima thing they have right now, that aint it! XD
They need in-game rating for that to work.
They didnt want me to be done with my character.
Ironic since I now feel done with my character.
Same feeling just replace i now feel done with my character to i feel done with the game.
They do want you to be done, when you have full BiS. I guarantee you that you were NOT done with your char in Eternal Palace or any tier with Titanforging, and wouldn't ever have been in 8.3 without the vendor. 100% you weren't.
More like done with the game.
nailed it man
@@billymays9296 at least we wanted to play the game. now we don't, we don't care what how done our chars are, cos we are done with our chars, fuck this boring mess, if i wanted classic id have played classic, far to many other games in my back log now to put up with this shit.
the good: i get drops all the time, the bad: the drops are usually anima and when they're not they're shoulders
Its crazy to me as someone who loved Mythic + this never getting any drops. I have to really keep to pushing myself to keep doing something so unrewarding
That's all I used to do in legion and bfa. Now? I'm doing bgs while sitting in oribos or Sinfall and logging out after a few.
Oh... and the wep was in the vault- not in the dungeons
Easy, quit. I did that, awesome decision.
Personally I think gearing has been far too focused within spamming mythic+ and the fact it has less effect on end game gearing is a good thing. If they gave you loot in the way that they did before with no titanforging you’d have your BIS almost immediately.
@@tbc8954 yeah, but if you want to get good gear you need a decent guild for heroic at least and for someone who didnt play bfa and doesnt have logs its impossible to find a guild because god knows where to look for it
I did two entire lockouts of castle nathria without getting anything. Really feeling rewarded right now!
I feel this. That was my point in anger from them removing bonus rolls, I ran Ny'alotha for over a month getting no loot from bosses only getting things from bonus roll or trading.
Me too. Ended up quitting recently b/c getting no gear isn't very fun.
@@genultz4866 Once people do get gear and there's more to trade it won't be so bad. Still, right now it's a bit of a slog.
Exactly, this is not raid or die. If anything it feels like raiding is too much time and effort for almost no reward, and easier loot from the vault doing M+
That’s rough buddy
I’d like to see a token system. Get to the end of M+ get a piece of gear? Great, no token. No drop? Okay, here is a token. Currency for gear/weapon purchases.
hell even if those tokens were like 5 for one piece that is 100% an upgrade would be better than now.
Just my thoughts, really. Based on item, e.g. weapon like 10 tokens, chest/head/pants like 8 etc. Maybe cap tokens for week so you cant get all gear in one week and its done
FFXIV has sort of token system. Like every week you clear a boss you get a book/token that's guarantee even if you don't win loot rolls. And with certain amount of books you can buy a piece of loot that otherwise would drop from that raid boss. Like jewellery costs 4 books, pants, gloves and hat costs 6 and chest or weapon costs 8 books. So you can 100% buy raid gear after 4th week if you haven't gotten any loot. It's not perfect system by any means but it works alright.
I think the devs see the Great Vault as being a sort of "guaranteed upgrade" source. The problem with that is you have to wait for it once a week and it's RNG.
I'd even take it in m+ token tiers. 2-4 keys for a 190, 5-7 for a 197, etc. Just something would be nice. Been stuck with 184 weapons that were given by other players since week 1 and I want cry.
I don't think anyone actually asked for less loot per source, they just wanted fewer sources. I'm a non-raider and thus didn't have an issue with titan forging, but I understand why it needed to go away. It feels like a large divide between the "haves" and "have nots." If you have a guild and/or friends to play with, you are set and the world is your oyster. If you are in a dead guild and play mostly solo, there is very little for you to do other than wait for your Covenant story to progress so that you can upgrade that gear. Is Mythic+ worth the time investment at this point? I don't really think so, and if it weren't for the Great Vault, I'm sure it wouldn't be. We need some sort of currency so you always feel you are progressing towards the next piece of gear.
I feel same with playing solo. It just happened that I am new to wow. I've tried to go hardcore from day 1, but boy I've missed few days on raid release and I cant find any group or a guild that would take me. I did 6/10 normal, but getting to heroic or even finishing last 4 bosses in normal, is impossible. No one takes me. So my only option now is to do low m+4/5/6 (because getting to group that does like +8 is impossible) and prey to rng gods to getting something decent or just do pvp (I am new to wow, and not very interested in pvp, so you have to imagine how fkn bad I am)
Justice and Valor from Cataclysm need to make a comeback!
Valor points from wrath alone could make everything so much better.
Edit: was it justice?
Anyway i liked the one-currency system better
Justice Points were around all the way back in Burning Crusade.
The problem with M+ (other than low loot count) is that I have found that the gear required to time a key is generally higher level than the rewards from the key.
Wha. Could you elaborate?
Because you can't get into groups, or because the groups fail?
I can highly reccomend RaiderIO, and doing your own groups.
@@protess5 What he means is that to complete a +7 which rewards ilvl 200 in time to get credit for the vault practically require an ilvl200+ group (especially on tyrannical weeks) so the chances of getting a meaningful upgrade from the dungeon itself are already very low before we account for the low drop count making it that much worse.
When I've done 6 m+ today and only got 35 anima each time, it makes you feel like not bothering. Get more anima by doing a 5 min wq
If you want to get loot from m+ just go for armor stacks,cloth lether etc
But... Isn't m+ fun? I mean the gear to me is just a bonus, I grind rio for fun, I play the game for fun. If you don't like raiding, and you think M+ isn't fun, just a means to get loot, why play the game at all? You only need gear for those 2 things. And no I don't pvp
I feel you. haven't gotten anything from key runs so far... Some kind badge thing would be good... get enough level X badges and you can turn it into an item... Now if you have bad luck, you get nothing. I mean I don't want rapid gearing, but when you have done many runs and you have nothing, there is no progress. Doing some M2 runs forever is not fun and going up without actual gear is not happening. For me the fun comes from challenge... there is no challenge doing easy M2 forever, and without better gear no one will take you to higher M+. No matter how good you are.
@@cloudz9383 I also do not PVP and had great fun in the first few weeks in m+. For most people doing M+, effort+reward=fun.
If you do a high key and do not get loot it looks like 10x Effort + 0x reward= less fun
Now let's say you do 10 high keys and get one item 10x(10x Effort + 0.1 x reward)= not worth it
Still better than titan forging
M+ needs a badges of justice system. It just feels so unrewarding in its current state
Giving mythic + a couple of currencies like honour and conquest would be great I think
I mean they did this in BFA... Titan Residuum.
It super sucks. I had NO gear drop in the past 20+ +m10 run. It's so lame.
M+ is garbage to begin with, at least PvP is always changing. Doing the same thing day in and day out sucks hardcore especially dungeons. We need a return of the mage tower or something with real challenge worth doing. Unfortunately torghast WAS that chance but babies who thought it was too hard complained to the devs and got it nerfed to the point it’s a joke. Not to mention Torghast was so unfinished it became a sad copy of M+ instead of the randomization it promised.
I remember making sure I ran daily heroic in tbc because they had currency for gear
Every single bit of content I did this week, whether it was world boss or raid or M+ gave me anima or gold. It would be amazing to have those guys drop a few valor tokens so all the hours and consumes I dedicated to it could go towards choosing a piece of gear from a vendor in the future. No RNG from the vault so MAYBE i'll get what I can use, but something I can actually use.
So for us that can't raid anymore due to family or work your saying we are fucked basically
Pretty much. I've come to realize that IRL commitments mean I'm just screwed for gearing. It's getting harder and harder to find a reason to log in.
no dont worry because even if you do the raid 2 weeks in a row full clear you will still probably get nothing (happened to me )
@@DarkLordConri well my wife and children come 1st was just hoping I could get some gear from m+ and a little from PvP oh well shit happens
Struggling with that as well, decided to main Arena and pug raids when I can.
What do u need the gear for you mean? Play the game. Get rewards.
At first I thought I was fine with this, but after 18 M+ mists trying to replace my blue shoulders it feels pretty bad
Especially when you realize the ilvl reward you will eventually get from it will be nothing compared to a heroic raid boss loot.
I tried pvp to work around that since u can target the pieces u want. Worked for me and maybe worth a try
@@notoriousn.i.g.5458 But that makes us return to the BFA problem where you need to do literally all content to gain advantages. That aint good.
@@Andrius971 100% agree. Hope they fix it soon :/
and, after you did a dope +12 sanguine, druid in group gets a 207 with my best stats and he doesn't need, BUT he's unable to trade
omfg my best neck dropped from raid and the fucking tank could not trade it to me because reasons. I hate blizzard staff.
This. This is the thing.
was it a ring or neck? if it was armor ilvl trumps secondaries. main stat is worth a lot more with the squish
From what I understand, the only time you can’t trade an item is when it’s considered a direct ilevel upgrade for you.
Nothing like getting higher ilvl wrists but that's your legendary slot and you can't trade it.
Yet another reason Wrath is so highly regarded. Gearing felt great, and you never felt like you were wasting your time, even if all you did was heroic dungeons.
And heroic dungeons were fun, and did not waste hours of your time.
LOVED the Wrath dungeons, all of them.
As much as I loved wotlk, sitting in town, waiting for que to pop up so I can get tokens so I can get better gear THAN THE RAIDS was just boring. There was nothing else to do. Right now, if you don't do raids, you don't get the best gear. And that's fair, since raiding is where you will need the best gear. Mythic+ is and should be focused more on pushing your limits, not a pinata full of gear.
SL gearing is identical to WotLK gearing, just with the Geat Vault instead of the emblem gear system.
@@Melodeath00 So you mean they are different.
By having this low drop chance of loot, you also get this terrible snowball effect where there are SOME people who get the absolute best they could get and get an enormous item level. While you are still stuck below. A friend of mine played mythic with some of his guild members. But he wasnt lucky with gear as the others, so they stopped doing M+ with him cause he wasnt geared enough like the rest.
Now we get this situation where people who were lucky are able to directly start playing high to maintain high and higher item levels. While people at the bottom are struggling more and more to climb.
So some back up system would be nice. Something to beat the mean 'ol RNG
badge gear would fix this for me like something on par with normal raiding maybe even a +7 giving a different badge that gives heroic raiding equivalent wouldnt be the first time they had 2 diffrent kinds of badges and one being infinitely grindable and one with a weekly cap
The worst part about it is when you get a piece you DON'T need, because you know it's going to be a long time before you actually get an upgrade.
Yep. What very little gear my DH has been able to loot in all the raids and m+ I've done, is worthless Mastery pieces...so it's like yay terrible loot. Wonder if Ill actually get decent statted pieces
@@the1bizkit my Dh would like it, hes an enchanter lol. I feel ya though but people have been really cool about trading tradable gear this expansion, even in lfg and lfr. It's a nice change in that regard.
@@the1bizkit just get some conquest gear? it's the best stats for DH
@@TauEnjoyer It certainly is. Although I do PVP for funsies when bored, and not to grind out gear. Either get CE or Glad, don't have the time/patience for both heh
this is literaly the thing people complained about with legion legendarys. they got one which is bad, now it takes forever for the next CHANCE
Something needs to happen, my main has been grinding so many m+'s and gotten nothing and raided full clear since week 1 with 0 drops at all. Even the chest from Pvp has only been slightly useful. I don't even want to think about working on an alt because of the gear. I am honestly burnt out from it already.
I have been desperately trying to get a single drop from one dungeon, 19 runs there on keystone above level 4... And nothing. Worse then that, I can't even get it to drop on normal mythic, or on a +2 or +4... It just feels like I'm bashing my head against a wall for nothing.
Just don't do it man. Grinding any one dungeon for any one specific loot piece in recent expansions is madness and guaranteed to make you despise the game within a month.
The gearing has been fine for me so far. Are you really that unlucky?
@@danielstarr8957 Yeah man it sucks. I have done maybe 10 spires to get a few pieces and NOTHING DROPS. NOTHING. I also did about 7 Mists to get the trinket and NOTHING. It is fucking horrible for 35 anima.
Lemme guess, De Other Side.
The fact that the dungeon has 4 fucking bosses with several BIS trinkets for several classes is frustrating. On top of being a grueling slogfest of a run compared to Halls or Mists, and you have the Siege of Boralus of this expansion.
Took my buddy 36 runs in Waycrest 15 to get his Baleful branch in 8.1. It dropped around 32, but the shaman who got it couldn't trade it.
I want a valor or badge system like in wrath. I don’t care if it takes a long time to get the items, but it would have been fun to be able to build up badges or points and then buy an upgrade, and then when you finally get enough for another piece, you have to decide if you want to upgrade your existing one or buy a new one to fill another slot. It doesn’t matter that it takes time - that’s fine. I’m also sad that world quests are so useless now. I loved world quests. I liked that they reflected my own achievements and progress. Now they’re completely pointless. Same with professions. They do literally nothing.
I saw this in mythic + week before heroic week. I haven’t played since then. I can’t be assed to waste my time hoping and praying I’ll get something decent when I could be doing 1000 other things that provide much better reward for investment of time.
It's remarkable how they had a functioning system almost a decade ago, and are now just fighting their decision to move away from it because some designer thought it was "clunky" and "messy".
They are creating problems that need not exist.
Every guy at blizzard has to put their "mark" on the expansion. How else can they get a raise/promotion? I agree with you that it sucks they have to reinvent the wheel over and over again.
If there is one thing the current dev team has consistently shown, it’s stubbornness about reverting poor changes that they made to the game. The only time they do so is when they can do it quietly and save face by doing it as part of a major systems overhaul. The devs egos is the current game’s greatest flaw.
I have always said that Ion is the worst thing that’s ever happened to the game. I do not think he thinks like the average player. He’s a very intelligent person who might be too smart for his own good. Very intelligent people can be so smart they create things that no one asks for and use their quick thinking minds to justify it with some lofty and convoluted explanation. That’s what wow gearing is.
Exactly, i remember preach did a video a while ago, it might have been the "gear monster" video lol where he linked a video of one of the old devs talking about wrath days, and the dev actually said that the thing he hated most was wraths gearing system and the thing he was most proud of was the LFG system, I mean c'mon ffs, how out of touch with the community do you have to be to hold opinions like that, why cant they just do what works instead of constantly trying to reinvent the wheel.
They have said multiple times at blizzcon that they agree that it has swung too much in terms of RNG and they need to rein it in a bit, all they have done in SL is reduce the amount of gear we get, they havent done fuck all about RNG, yeah we dont have titanforging or corruption anymore but now the RNG is whether you even get a piece of loot instead of whether its actually any good for you. BRING BACK VENDORS FFS BLIZZARD!!!!!
People can't ever leave shit well enough alone.
Ran too many m+ without loots. I've settled for just doing one decently high key for the vault.
So have many other people and doing that, Great Vault is nothing more than a weekly BfA chest. I was amazed when I heard about the vault in beta and thought it would provide 3 choices for a single M+ run and just be a straight improvement over BfA but no. It's grind 10 M+ every week, clear a raid every week, or get the same one item disappointment as before.
I disagree, the vault looks and feels amazing. Every week i get a reward of some kind on both my main and alt that is a massive upgrade. I too quite doing m+ as it is just not worth it but instead i picked up pvp so i get a choice from those as well.
@@richardheizler8273 Looks and feels? So do casinos mate. Specific experience doesn't really matter here, I was just pointing out that the system requires you to spam a lot of content weekly for every character otherwise it's nearly the same as BfA.
@@richardheizler8273 The Vault is a terrible replacement to badges. It's horrible. I've gotten one replacement so far. Even with more choices I get repeats.
@@richardheizler8273 My vault so far has given great rewards. Issue is i have had to grind 10x the content in order to get them.
The vault to me only "feels amazing" because the drops/items outside the guaranteed loot feels beyond painful. I ran mythic+ 15 times last week and got 1 item, i did the raid on normal and first 2 bosses on heroic and got 0 items so when i opened my great vault and got 1 upgrade it felt amazing because getting 1 upgrade that week took me an awful lot of time.
Does the vault feel amazing because it's actually a great system or does it feel amazing because for the entire week you're sinking time into pointless content wasting hours for 0 gain?
What a timely video. I was going to start working on an alt until I realized that I haven't even managed to gear up my main despite endless M+ spam, how was I gonna actually gear my alt up...
Getting +35 anima over and over and then getting the gear drop THAT YOU DONT NEED.
That causes insanity real fast.
When a mythic raider that by default swims in loot says there's gearing deficit you can only imagine how really bad is it at the bottom end
ironically it is better for lower ranked guilds because they do still get worthwhile upgrades from M+, but it's by no means great
Mythic raiders at the moment, are most definitely NOT swimming in loot, as bosses drop 3 pieces of loot and like 2% of guilds have cleared more than 3-4 mythic bosses.
??? bottom end just gets full 184 gear, crafts a legendary and is happy. There you go. They sit at 190ish ilvl which is fine. They dont even need more gear since they dont do more challenging content. Simple logic, really. They log in do some pvp, do some dungeons, do some low keys and logout for the week. Hell, some even raid normal. They have literally no complaints right now.
@@TheRobochicken5494 there's a lot of variance between CE raiders and lfr andies
@@escolyte yeah, no shit. Whats your point ? i was answering op's question concerning the bottom end, theyre perfectly fine.
I feel like for M+ if they just added one more item to the chest, we'd be fine, I ran 8 M+ today, I got nothing, fine, rng is rng, but it feels so unrewarding, the items I have got this week have been slots that I have better or ones on my leggo slot. From the start of M+ coming out I've done about 80 dungeons give or take a few, and not one weapon drop, really? And please, for the love of fucking god, remove that god damn 35 anima, it's insulting. Oh you did a +15? Well here's a pat on the head. Gtfo
Like, sweet jesus, just give us some gold. If we're doing 15's we are dropping thousands on repairs and consumables. Giving 1k in the chest a the end wouldn't be OP, it would be the *least* they could do.
Your experiences are a sufficient sample size. On the other hand, I have gotten plenty of loot. Just because YOU don't get anything doesn't mean EVERYONE doesn't get anything
your logic is flawed... if you get how RNG works... then you'd understand even if they added more stuff to the chest you still might not get anything.
remove the daily quest system and renown system. ruining the whole game for casual players
Thank you preach, after doing over 40 instances to try to get a weapon someone is finally speaking out for me :D
Finally, I thought it was just me, I've had one useable piece of gear from the vault but it has the wrong stats and is better for a spec I don't play. All I hear is, "Shadowlands is so great!" So why do I feel so, like, what's the point? I have kept this to myself. I ran 19 mythic plus dungeons since reset and I've had 3 drops which I gave to our enchanter to crush for shards, the raid has given me 1 item this week. Why can't we have tier sets and earn tokens again so I actually feel I'm working towards something? Gearing from BFA to Shadowlands is like the difference between scratching your arse and tearing it.
In all seriousness, why is everyone focusing so much on secondary stats. I had a guildmate who was complaining that they got a 10 ilvl upgrade with the "wrong" secondary states, when the sims still said it would increase his DPS. He was just being salty that it wasn't the "best" upgrade he could have gotten.
Now granted. I understand if you get an upgrade that is 3 ilvls higher and the stat weights it's not a power increase, but still.
@@JC-ok4yx Secondary stats matter in the minds of the players, for good or bad.
A. K. A. "F'ing Vers!" /raisedfistinair
TL;DR You feel secondaries in the moment, while primaries are mostly seen in analysis (sims and logs, for instance).
@@JC-ok4yx secondary stats are much easier to feel than primary stats for most classes/specs. Haste and crit, at least, with versatility coming in once you get large amounts and mastery when it's important for your class (Ignite for instance). There's also the fact that getting the wrong secondaries can drop your stats and therefore negatively impact this feeling, especially when stat budgets are very small. Losing a piece with haste on it can cost you 2-4% haste, which may not seem like a lot but it's really somewhere between 10 and 20% of your current haste. Whereas losing 10 armor or 15 intelligence or 20 stamina isn't as noticeable because those only matter when you're either taking damage or wiping to an enrage (as far as PVE goes). Meanwhile every cast or attack reminds you of your haste, every big damage popup reminds you of your crit, etc.
It's really hard to feel the difference between a 9.5k shadow bolt and a 9.6k shadow bolt, but you can tell when it crits.
@@JC-ok4yx I'll tell you why. The sims may tell you it's a DPS increase but that's only under perfect conditions. If you are competing and one guy has the wrong secondaries and the other has a perfect balance who will win? If you're aiming for mythic raiding or high mythic + secondary stats matter, even if you're not a good balance is much more optimal than say, every piece of gear having your two worse stats on. What you're saying is like two friends go out for a drink, one likes beer the other likes bourbon, the only bar in town only has cider but the barman (you) says, "Hey, it's alcohol and well it'll have the same effect, don't be so fussy and drink up." Guess what that bar is now out of business. The point I'm trying to make is if you're constantly rewarded with crap rather than occasionally getting an item that fits your build you start to think and feel like what's the point.
does anyone else just not like raiding at all and only do mythic + like me? bc the way gearing is right now makes me not even want to play and im not accepting the "just go do a raid" no. i wont force myself to do something i do not enjoy at all to be able to do m+ .. the only thing i enjoy.
I don't give a fuck about gear. I love the current system.
I push high keys because I'm a gamer, and like high scores. IO has its problems, but fuck man, timing a new 15 and seeing your ranks boosting is amazing.
Similar for raiding. I like progress, specifically progress from gameplay. For too many tiers I've felt my first kill of a boss was because we just got more titanforges than last week. We made the same mistakes, its just now we can out heal it. CN is a tier where you just need to git gud and I fucking love it.
Badge gear would be a mistake because youd quickly have the badge gear. You'd still need to raid to get bis. We could have gear upgrades tho, like the old valor system, so people have an incentive to do 3-4 m+ runs per week.
I leveled my Mage and got to 198 i level but wasnt really feeling it. Decided to level my warrior and once i got to 60... i dreaded it. The renown catch up was easy (do mythics. pvp drop rate is nonexistent). But i got to 60 and it was like okay....gotta do the campaign now....oh chapter 3 is available now gotta do the quests..again....oh chapter 5 quest chain...again....and we're only in renown 15.. Imagine 40? Got to 60 and then had to do the quest for the Maw....and torgast...damn gotta start at floor 1 obviously in torgast too......Quest for the runecarver ah yes forgot about that. Conduits! forgot about that..they dont drop from PvP so gotta farm dungeons! 9 callings 0 gear...huh....I feel like the repetition is insane. This is only 1 alt. Imagine if you have various or want to experiment with other classes and you find yourself doing the same quest chains over and over *cough BFA* and over again?
Still haven't gotten a wep from anything other than m0, so I'm running a maxed out 184 pvp wep.
And that's after doing a decent farm om m+.
If you do pvp to get a conquest weapon that's what I did, you get to pick your item
Do arena's even if you afk every match you can get ilvl 200 weapon
@@axl4394 yeah but lot of people aren’t able to do rated pvp or hell even good enough
you should be able to buy a conquest weapon this week or next week if ur 2hander, thats 200 ilvl, easily upgraded to 207/213 with 1400/1600 rating
My first weapon was 207 from the vault after doing a +4 I think. I do like this change, even if I didn't get gear, it makes it feel meaningful and rewarding when you finally get it, instead of non stop gear that you cycle through.
World Bosses should guarantee an item. It's once a week do it. Why don't we have Justice/Valor vendors so when you get nothing from M+ you can at least purchase an item. They need to also improve WQ items. The game is enjoyable when you are improving consistently. I always felt like when I had BiS many expansions ago the game finally felt great. You could then finally enjoy the game. We need to get to BiS faster and it needs to feel better.
The drops are so shit, if it wasn't for PvP vendor i would still be stuck with my 155 quest reward weapon
I was stuck with a 155 normal dungeon dagger and a 155 dagger I got from picking pockets. It happened early and felt good, but after weeks of grinding mythics and M+ and still having 155 daggers, I was ready to sell my soul for an upgrade.
me too. I'd be using my 155 and 140-something daggers if it weren't for a BoE off the AH and the PVP vendor.
The loot system is awful. I read an interesting forum post about how the current loot system will fail, it had really good points. Loot needs to have a bit of longevity to it if it's locked behind such a grind, otherwise the return-on-investment is just bad.
It does have longevity though... you can literally get BiS items and not replace them for an entire tier...
Lets not forget the other side though, where gearing was so easy there was no reason to do difficult content other than for the "fun" of it, since rewards were practically meaningless
@@billymays9296 that's a huge IF, because if the great vault offers you the items. If it doesn't your out of luck
@@billymays9296 what do you mean? People aren't clearing mythic raids right away bis needs to be worked up to
this is exactly what i said when they announceed the m+ ilvl changes. there need to be some incentive to do it . honesltly a m+ currency that upgrade ilvl would be fine weekly capped
I like this idea.
I really think it's just a fear on their part that if people gear too quickly they'll quit between patches, but every time I've got my main into good gear I get interested in trying other classes in good gear. That's how I discovered how much I like mage and warlock.
100% agree. I almost made a mage ult to have fun on other classes but considering how many mythic+ runs im doing on my priest there is no chance im doing that again on an alt so instead of actually playing the game now i log on and do my weekly and 1 mythic+ then log out.
I ran theater of pain 17 times for the polearm. It still has not dropped and only 2 pieces of gear has dropped out of the 17 runs so I have to keep going. I'll bet I'll have ran it 50 times before I actually get that polearm. Zenji-Hakkar
I’m in a small guild that doesn’t have enough players wanting to raid, but have been playing since vanilla - I’m not going to leave my friends to join a raiding guild to get upgrades. We have enough people to do Mythic+, but if that content isn’t viable we’ll all be out soon.
Seriously agreed. its fucking bullshit.
Badges like it was in wotlk was the best system they ever had for loot
It's funny that when they had the most subscriptions and the most players yet they refuse to implement one of the things most liked about gearing in the expansion. I was a pvp and dungeon runner before wotlk when that came out the badge system was able to help me get gear that started me raiding. My small guild of 10 was able to eventually down LK. And it all started because we could get badges to get gear to help us progress.
I have these days when I'm playing WoW and I *really* do not feel like playing with anyone, and just want to go do something solo. Kinda feels like right now, that just means I can do very little worthwhile things.
I hear ya on that one.
Bring back a badges of valor/heroism currency system!
Honestly in addition to the less loot it would help cause too many people hate or honestly are to bad to pvp for conquest like I’m a tank main and don really care for pvp anymore
I seriously wish they did this. Make it where raiding gives you more and more. But you can still do m+ and gear effectively. Even PvP should go back to grind honor to get gear. Or even let them gear PvE with the same valor/heroism currency. This would make alts even more enjoyable and just worth while. I just hate how gearing is currently. Heavily into rng and then the rng can just be, "nah. you get nothing good." Kind of makes me wish Blizzard would just remove gear and let us play the game with skill.
So that people can start to complain that gearing is so predictable and just a math thing.
In 2 weeks I have enough badges for this piece.
And it makes all drops on the way there feel bad. You have been saving up for new gloves, the boss before you get your last badges you get new gloves, that are an upgrade, but worse than the ones you can buy... Shitty feeling.
@@ijustownyouall I would rather have predictable gearing than going a whole week and getting 35 anima or relying on other's better RNG to gear me up. At least I feel that I'm getting progressively better and better
@@Lowaver but you are not progressively getting better. You are just collecting stuff until you can buy the upgrade and then you get the additional power. Just like a drop. Just you know when it is coming
And with all currency you get the endless cap or no cap, catch up, no catch up debate. Should it be capped? Then you have the problem that people who play a lot don't get anything out of it and complains about timegating. If you have catch up people will complain about the catch up.
There is no perfect system and everything has ups and Downs
This is a good video to watch for those of us who were undecided on getting SL. I'm going to wait and see what they do about gearing, loot, and few other systems. Thanks preach!
I completely agree, Preach. I've done a ton of content only to be disappointed at both of my vaults the past 2 weeks. I'm also in a gear grind as well...can't seem to get drops...still wearing M0 gear trying to do AOTC and getting into mythic raiding after new years. Feelsbad.
So, in a nutshell, Blizzard nerfed the loot so that split runs wouldn't be too prevalent and the raiding tier would last longer, and it backfired: the top end guilds still did split runs, the world first race was over in two weeks, but the average player is just getting frustrated by not having meaningful progress for doing mythic plus or PvP, your only reliable source of loot is your Great Vault.
So they aimed at the top end guilds and screwed the average player. Who would have thought this would happen? Lmao
Highly doubt that’s the main reason they reduced the amount of loot.
They didn't nerf loot as a counter to split runs. They almost never make a change just for the sake of the high end especially if it impacts other players.
@@aldarana8483 acording to Ian's interview back when they announced that the loot was going to be reduced, split runs was cited as one of the reasons for reducing the loot, to "Increase longevity of the tier across all levels of play".
@@aldarana8483 What are you talking about? If you followed the Shadowlands update news while it was in beta, a LOT of the changes they implemented and that players had to talk them out of were because they wanted to reign in the top players. There was a huge discussion about Torghast becoming timed, like an m+ because blizz was afraid that 1% of the people would wait for their bloodlust to get off cooldown to have it for every boss once they got to the really high lvls. It was a monumental effort to convince them to stop being stupid about it and potentially ruin the experience for everybody, just because they wanted to stop a problem that was in their head to begin with. Its the same with mythic nerfing. And its silly because the top players will always find a way to outsmart them and still get the gear they want, and all this achieves is for certain activities to get ruined for the mid - low - casual tier players. In fact ...blizzard has a notorious history of balancing their games based on top 1% performers across >all< their games. Look at starcraft or overwatch and how one trick that gets invented by a high lvl guy competing in a tornament gets nerfed immediately because blizz is afraid that others will try to copy it. Nevermind that others wont have the skill to use the trick to the same effectiveness..it needs to be removed.
The only reason i’m running m+s is to get more rio (last week i did more than 35 m10+) i’m not expecting any loot from them cause most of the times they’re useless. I play a fucking lot, i’m doing last 2 bosses nm 10/10 hc and 1/10 M every week but i’m still 206 ilvl, some of my guildmates are 210+, some 200+. I don’t get this massive disparity between players who put the same amount of time into the game. That’s what i don’t like, they reduced the amount of rng with loot (no titanforge exc) but they pumped luck factor which is rng, isn’t it?
course you did all that sweet heart
"to get more rio" so basically, the 3rd party website/addon is more rewarding than the game itself lol. i'm a graphic designer over here having more fun with elvui and weakauras than shadowlands. cheers
there was always RNG in the game. 15 runs for hand of justice and havent seen it once.
You're a sweetheart Simone
Intro was the fucking best I died laughing holy shit.
Yes, that open was a Preach PoG Champ move!
that moment when he casually turned his eyes to the camera, got me.
I'm really enjoying the curve of gear, Our guild just cleared 10/10HC and I'm sat at 208ilvl, every bit of gear feels like an amazing upgrade! I feel for more casual players though as I get that the rewards for honor gear or WQs or M+ are fairly low rewarding
Like someone else said, Badges of Justice would be amazing if they brought it back - I haven't been playing lately but I still keep in touch with my mate and she ran 12 mythics and got nothing. Hasn't been back on to play since because of the time investment with no return.
Reinstating Badges would be great. Use those Legendary Item templates to infuse items with w/e so so can fill in those slots we can't find upgrades for.
It be the old saying: "Don't fuck with the loot"
Dawg, they fuck with loot literally every single fcking expansion. Where the hell did you even get that saying ?
@@scottfree6479 Stagnation is death. Without constant change the game would have fcking died along with all the other mmos years ago. Before you twist my words, i do not support the weekly cache, never did. I hate m+ and miss justice and valor points.
But take this food for thought. Change is always necessary in almost every part of life.
@@scottfree6479 ok, cool. To each their own.
Doesnt invalidate my previous statement.
The lack of loot has me thinking of quitting the game again. I've been in this loop of your ilvl is too low to raid go do m+. I go do m+ and get no loot, I go kill the world boss no loot, I go kill the bosses in raid finder no loot. I have to stack all leather wearers that have a higher ilvl in an attempt to get better loot given to me. This game does not feel fun....hell Runescape feels more fun right now.
Still haven't looted a single item from 3 weeks clearing of Heroic Castle...
That's painful! :(
suuuuuuuuuure.
The only place my friends & I want to see change in the loot system, is m+ rewarding higher ilvl & maybe more drops. The ilvl part is the most important for us. We don’t like that our main content is our worst gear reward (outside of the great vault). We currently get better gear doing our weekly arenas than doing +15 keys. We currently get better gear from HC raid than doing +15 keys. Is not +15 keys somewhat harder than HC raid & 1800 arena rating??
Follow up: Currently +15 dungeons are way harder bc if our overall low ilvl. In pvp you might be in a more similar ilvl to your opponents, where that isn’t the factor in m+. Later in the patch a +15 will be way easier. But I still feel like the rewards from m+15 dungeons should be somewhat higher
Yep im so done with this if they dont change something, 2 days trying to get 1 item. Havent progressed my char anything and that is just not fun!
I *STILL* have a 174 chest piece on my warlock, because nothing else has dropped, and I've done 50+ m+ and the raid since it opened. Nothing.
I feel you bro. I have a 171 helm and I've never seen one drop higher from the vault or m+ or raid. But I've gotten 4 chests and 3 belts.
Conquest cap and bang 200ilvl chest
I’m up for some currency system in m+. But I think that you have to “gate” the items in some way. Maybe items can be locked behind timed dungeons, so you can’t spam 8+ and buy a 15+ item. I don’t know, but I must say that I love the game in the state as it is
Maybe you could lock loot tires behind the keystone conquerer and master achievements. It would then also make people do duengons that they dont normally do so they can unlock the next 'tier' of badge rewards.
You could have it that the gear you can buy is based on what badge/currency you use, but the currency type you get is tied to what tier of key you have completed (and even how well you do like timing or how many chests). So 1-6 might be justice currency, 7-11 might be another currency, while the 12+ might be the highest currency, and if you say do an exceptional run you get afew currency of the next tier as a bonus.
Valor needs a comeback as a slow means of upgrading m+ or raid gear.
PvP gear vendor is your closest option there.
@@mattemattics5667 that's his point though, Valor was the equivalent of Conquest in PVP, but they abandoned it like they did PVP Vendors, which led to the Titanforging bullshit.
Thank you for being the voice of the unfortunate, subbed!
Also, 3 weeks of vaults and 2 weekly quests disenchanted just FYI.
i managed to fit in 6 mythic+ between work and everything else i had to do that week in wow, got 0 drops havent logged in since my great vault was meh
In the same boat, havent bothered to even log in this week and dont care at this point whats in the vault. Zero raid drops and out of 50+ m+'s got 2 items, its not worth my time.
@@tsdrum2016 I feel you, drop rates were ok in the beginning when we were all blue, but I had to do over 10 Plaguefal runs to get either boots or chest, got one still 171 on the other...
I think Blizz is like a Monkey's Paw. Careful what you wish for. They gave us more gear options in the vault, but made every other piece of loot outside of it disappear.
all those people complaining gear was too easy to get, got their wish now, i do believe preach even made those comments. now it has come. blizzard has always said " you dont know what you want, we know what you want" and we always say, "nah we know what we want" and when given it we complain
@@EhsanVreeken there can be balance to both sides so I don’t understand the issue. A little tweak and gearing should be a non issue going forward
@Thiago Silva I know
@@JDmix123 and water is makes things wet, wind is air moving, and the sun makes light.. we can state obvious stuff all day it means nothing when it comes to blizzard... becareful what you wish for every single time with them is what we say, but no one listens on those forums demanding change.. doesnt matter if one thinks blizz can give them "balance" or not.. what matters is when you wish for a change blizz makes you pay for the change in some form of sacrifice and they always have and always will
Really miss the justice/valor system.
I’m on 21 runs of +6-8 dungeons and have had 1 piece of gear drop in the last 2 weeks. I’m honestly just done at this point, I’m not investing my time into something I’m not getting anything out of. My friends are in the same boat as me, it’s become so demotivating to actually do m+ even with friends.
I am really vibing with your comment. I have been grinding the shit out of M+ as well and just got lucky that the rnd member traded the loot to me or otherwise I would have gotten nothing. And its not even calculating in all the time wasted for lost keys where ppl just leave and you have to do it all over again....... I havent done any m0 or m+ with guild members bc its so frustrating or they only run lowkeys where I wouldnt get any upgrade as well. I have quit the game now.. maybe Ill come back with the new patch or some changes..
I am so BAD at PvP but I’ve really enjoyed buying a little upgrade from the PvP-vendor with the little conquest I’ve been able to get. I think that a m+ currency and vendor would feel great, if the currency dropped in the dungeon and NOT in the weekly vault. I also think this change would make more people want to finish dungeons even if they’re not going ”great” ^^
Yeah, M+ feels like such a waste of time right now. The on higher keys 1 mistakes removes half the loot and 2 drops are already too few.
I dont think id say it feels like a waste but the latter part 100%. Not everyone runs 10 mythics a night farming for drops blizz and im not really that casual myself.
Wish I had your problem, can't get into a M0 to save my life.
@@joebumbler9430 Either I run with the guild or I tank keys or I do my own key. 3 ways for me to get at least 1 key done per week.
@@joebumbler9430 That seens whack. 0s arent exactly tough
Was super excited to open my vault last week. My choices were: A neck I already had, a ring I already had, or a belt I already had. It was unbelievably deflating. There's no reason to let that happen.
They should decrease the drop chance of an item type in the vault if you already have a piece of the same ilvl(or higher) or a legendary currently in the slot until you wind up with all the items in your slots having an equal ilvl or so.
dude.. that is bad luck. but stfu.. rather have options then opening a chest with wrists for 9 weeks in a row
I mean you COULD aim to unlock more options than 3?
@@OMGITSJAD I'm sure this system was advertised stating there would be no duplicates on the weekly vault... what a crock of sh*t that was.
They should drop a 250 anima node at the end of a Mythic dungeon.
That's a bit much. you could just blast +2's and fill up your anima for no effort. maybe anima that scales? like 35 anima per level instead of per dungeon?
What for? You get nothing that will boost your player power with anima
Last week, two of my M+ vault items were items I already had and I already had something better for the third so the time spent doing M+ was completely wasted. Either increase the number of M+ choices to 5 so we have more chances of having useful choices or make it so the three choices are guaranteed to be an ilvl upgrade so long as you completed sufficiently high keys to get three possible upgrades. That way, you are nearly guaranteed to have an ilvl upgrade each week until you are maxed out on ilvl and all you have left to do M+ for is crossing fingers for max-ilvl BiS items.
Think you nailed it. Was wondering why I don't really want to do much in the game lately - "reward/time invested" feels too low. Pugging got really bad: 1-2 wipes in an m+ run and ppl leave - nobody wants to invest time for 1 item. Have a small group that we run with a couple times per week, but we do not time all the keys so end result is kinda meh. After a couple weeks we already 10+ ilvls behind raiders even though we seem to know quite a bit more about dungeon mechanic compare to those ppl (I run with some raiders as well). In the end just feels like going hard in anything, but raiding is a way to get behind :(
Being stuck on 184 ilvl from honor sucks when everyone you face are 200 ilvl plus. 197 ilvl honor should have been released this week or at least this coming week
indeed, it feels like the old time where raiders had the best gear and could stomp out everyone else in pvp.
I don't understand why you think gear that takes no skill or effort to get should be comparable to normal raid tier.
I’m getting so left behind by friends that I kept up with and could play with previously and my time commitment to wow hasn’t changed.
if your friends aren't playing with you because you have lower gear, they aren't your friends
@@SpliffProductions So I should force them to play lower keys and less challenging content with the limited time that they also have?
@@TerentiusD Lower keys are fun when you're geared.
@@TerentiusD i'm not saying that necessarily, but essentially your friends are leaving you out of having fun over gear on a video game that you might not be even playing next year? i don't know, i just find it kind of a dickmove to leave your mates out of anything
I'm the opposite. I'm playing significantly less and am not having a hard time keeping up with everyone else.
I wish the crafted gear wasn't so worthless.
I totally agree, they should just make it the same ilv as m0, 184.
Tbh professions, besides legendart crafting, are worthless... again.
YES. Why the *fuck* does crafted gear top out at 168? What the fuck is that?
God, remember the few craftable epics in classic, or the ones from BC? They took commitment to make. They had a long quest chain with it and time gated materials, but when you made them, they would last till mythic raid.
Crafters should be able to make 220 pieces for themselves, I don't care if it takes 4 weeks, but let them make something for all that grinding.
It was literally worthless even when you dinged 60. Coulda been useful for at least a couple H DUNGEONS maybe one Mythic dungeon lol
@@GodlessArtist Because crafters make legendaries. Which are 235......
it feels like theres nothing there tbh. iv got time to raid maybe maybe once every other week, really enjoy m+ but i cant keep up with my friends because gear only comes from raids. the main issue i have is that i dont see why i should pay monthly for a game thats not updated every month and when i do play, everything is on a gate or lockout every week.... why pay monthly for something thats so full of lockouts?? its an utterlly insane and unjustifiable cost proposition......... what are you paying monthly for? nothing........
what if they also dropped soul ash, and then you use your key + a base gear to upgrade an item like the legendaries, so say you have a mists item and want to upgrade the ilvl from m9+ to m15+ i use my mists (at least) +15 key and soul ash (still weekly capped) and a base 210 ilvl to upgrade the item, it allows you to get at least one or maybe two extra targetted items per week?
I've been really struggling to motivate my friends to do M+, it's just not worth the effort right now.
It's actually so frustrating that you can never share gear. With my prot pally, all i get is stuff that has crit on it which my friend needs, and he gets items with the stats that i want. But we can never trade. It's so dumb.
Another friend spammed the same dungeon 20 times this weak, because he's still wearing a blue chest piece...and yes, he is STILL wearing that.
Guess raiding would be the best we can do, but we don't have a guild and most people that open a raid are already only looking for people with experience, even on normal.
depends on the server, populated server has alot of guilds that still accepts new raiders.
If you're a tank and want to raid, learn to DPS or heal. Not trying to be mean, I'm a prot pally myself, and the easiest way to get into a raid is to respec.
Raids scale for all roles except tanks. Can bring multiple healers and DPS, but you can only ever have 2 tanks per raid. A raid of 10 people? 2 tanks. A raid of 20 people? 2 tanks. A raid of 30 people? 2 tanks.
Respec in raids is the way. Just set your loot spec to Prot. Healing especially because our DPS isn't that desired as melee.
Try it.
People cannot expect m+ to be the loot piniata it was for many years, it would just break the gearing system and force everyone to participate in m+ for the third expansion in a row....
The badge system is fine if you have a weekly cap on how many badges you can acquire, or it's going to be another loot piniata
Agreed. I think the rate of drops is fine, but the M+ gear ilvl needs to be increased.
Timing a M15 is legitimately MUCH harder than killing a HC CN boss. MUCH harder. It should award an appropriate ilvl.
@@Emajenus totally disagree, they should nerf the max reward to +10 so there is no point in doing higher unless you do it for fun. This way your problem of its harder than HC will be fixed, m+ gear should always be lower than hc raiding regardless of difficulty. If they increase the ilv more than hc raiding then it will force everyone to do it, I do not understand how you can agree with Aurelio and say they should increase it, zero sense.
@@SleepyJoin how does this logic not work the other way around, why should m+ players be forced to raid, there's already a higher raid difficulty than heroic that gives better loot than m+ and that's fine, why should heroic give better loot too ? just to make m+ players miserable? at the very least they should have equal loot
@@SleepyJoin You say that it will force people into raiding, but that's not true. It's flawed logic.
You think that everyone will raid, but the truth is that if people hit a gearing wall and feel "forced" to raid, they are more likely to quit the game.
People who don't raid usually can't commit the time to raid. Even I, as someone who has the time, don't want to commit to 3 hours twice a week with a guild.
I quit Classic because I didn't want to commit that time anymore.
Even if you force SOME people to PUG heroic, what's the point? Raid PUGs are entirely more toxic and a worse experience than M+ PUGs (10-14 keys).
And the difficulty of a lot of heroic bosses is lower than the difficulty of timing high keys (10-15).
Again, offer people options. Doing hard content should reward something good. If you take away the choice, the only choice becomes to quit. Which makes the game worse for us all regardless of the level at which we play.
I'm glad you posted this, I've very much been having that "meh" feeling outside of raid days. Get the weekly done, do the highest key I can, then ???? Takes me a day or two to get all that settled. M+ feels so underwhelming. They're challenging and all, but when you get 35 anima for it all it just feels BAD. I fully agree we should have valor or badges come back so I would have a good reason to play with friends outside of my 2 raid days a week. I really want to play WoW but nothing is compelling me to do so on my main.
Really sucks at the moment for me, unable to really play as much as I used to now uni is done. after doing my weekly stuff I might fit in maybe 6/7 m+s that are not even very high keys because I haven't been able to push my io up because of rl stuff I've gone last two weeks with no upgrades. I kinda want to quit playing I feel so behind compared to last expan
Maybe since you have less time you should set the bar a little lower. You'll catch up eventually.
@@Matthiz I just feel less enjoyment from bfa due to this issue, where I could go run a few 15s or higher and get ok gear now I cant even run high keys because I'm not raid geared.
When the (infrequent) drops are hitting the right slots, the new system feels good and has the right pacing. When the (infrequent) drops are persistently repeats, or on your lego slot, the system feels horrible. That's as simple as I can put it.
I have had a similar experience as another player in these responses. Out of eight epic drops in a certain week, seven of those items were rings.
Bad RNG is bad RNG. It happens in every loot design. If you don't have RNG, getting loot doesn't feel rewarding.
For sure the rewards are feeling lacking. I dont want to have bis so quick. But i would like some kind of loot drop bad luck mechanic built in. I did 8 keys and only got 1 conduit drop lol.
dude.. that is bad luck. but stfu.. rather have options then opening a chest with wrists for 9 weeks in a row
@@Timetocryintheshower how about we have both options so we can pick bis gear and good drop rates so that we can fill lowilv slots... crazy right
@@SleepyJoin how about u work for your loot.. going back to being happy when u get loot.. classic was 40ppl doing raids and 5items dropped.. gl doing that math
@@SleepyJoin IF I see someone with gear now I respect them more them when seeing high gear ppl in BFA or legion..
@@Timetocryintheshower yeah i never said anything about the vault....lol
15 raid bosses and 6m+ runs this week without a drop. I'm really all for getting less loot but going a whole reset without an upgrade does suck.
It feels like the only reason to do content is to unlock that guaranteed piece of loot at reset ( which may not be anything exciting ).
I have 3 full clears on CN Normal with a total of 2 drops. I have a total of 27m+ runs for 5 drops. By next reset it will have taken me 4 weeks to get conquest for a weapon. It'll take another 2 weeks for every piece of conquest gear after that.
I don't like just capping everything and waiting for scraps at the end of the week.
You know grinder out all my keystones and got bracers...and they aren't optimal
27 m+ weakling 11 hoa one drop and it’s shit
@@S-AI6 hahaha like being a trial player in a Mythic guild for the first few weeks - here, have some bracers :). But at least once you pass your Trial you get the good stuff. Loot boxes can be bracers to the end of time.
It's shit even if you get upgrades from the vault. Getting an upgrade from the casino roll once a week and not from the actual content you're doing or at least from the vendor targeting a specific item is the definition of unrewarding.
@@omarcomming722 I got upgrades from the vault, but they are shit items carried by high ilvl. Getting to choose from 3 crap items doesn't feel rewarding.
What are your thoughts on "If" Blizzard added a Torghast option to the Great Vault? like maybe not the best mythic raid tier gear but like as good as Mythic 14-15. considering it's so unrewarding to do those Mythic Spams.
I ran enough tens last week for 2 220 rewards from my chest yesterday. Both were belts, replacing my 213 belt I got from the 4 mythics quest from two weeks ago. I really wish it was less random, like they’ve already made it a lot less random than bfa but what if I could actually target my bis stats in the chest? Haste does next to nothing for me rn, what it I could tell my chest “hey please give me something with crit mas”
i don't think blizzard missed anything. they intentionally milk the player base for as long as possible. and, they get away with it because players are addicted, and it's difficult for other companies to compete directly with wow
When players are talking about the intricacies of game design more than the things they've done in-game you know something's wrong. Which one have you been talking more about for years now? I think the answer to that stands on its own.
Very astute comment!
Tbh that's also directly related to age.
I was ecstatic after killing Illidan when I was 15, now clearing a raid tier barely means anything regardless of the state the game is in. It's just a 16-year-old game that we've been playing for a long time.
There are not many ultra exciting individual moments to be found while playing but it doesn't mean it can't be a great experience overall, it's just not mind-blowing like it was 15 years ago.
I was just having a discussion on Reddit about bringing back the badge system. Here we go!!
8:44 sums up so much of how I feel. I stopped playing 2 weeks ago when raid dropped because it invalidated everything I had and I don't plan to join a raiding guild. I went pretty hardcore in PVP because the gear was easily obtainable and upgradeable but this xpac is very hard on a solo player. all of progression right now is linked to team oriented content which is a major bummer.
I think another isssue in M+ is the size of loot tables. For example in theater of pain i have 14 items that can drop (excluding legendary's, and conduits). On most raid bosses i have 2-3, so this means when an item actually drops it's rarely the item you're looking for. In practice i worked out it will take over 2200 dungeons to get my m+ BiS, which feels kind of stupid.
We are 4/5 weeks into the expansion and I have lost interest in almost everything. As I am without a guild and have had some bad weeks with drops, I fell behind on gear and am no longer invited to anything. I haven't played this week, even without any holiday distractions. I have the time, i just do not feel like playing or trying to get a group together. As is, I am probably just keeping up with renown and ash until 9.1 and hope for the best after.
I am totally right there with you, I picked a dk (unholy is fun but I wanted to tank... And Mdps is not wanted)... I hit 195 and have no guild to do runs with and pugs are ok untill council and I can't get into heroic CN or any decent keys (no good clears means no go IO) it's a self fulfilling cycle of me getting left out and on the path to quitting the game.
M+ NEEDS something to make it more rewarding... I have gone way too long without a reward on both completed and failed keys...
So.... join a guild? Seems like that's your biggest problem.
@@danlorett2184 not as easy as it seems, no one wants tanks and mdps is on a "competition for invites" most guilds I am trying to join... I am not 200+ so it's thought times for those who fall behind and don't have friends willing to gear feed
Depending on the server, "find a guild" can be a challenging position.
I am on a small realm, finding a guild that wants my spec, raids in a schedule that fits my own, in which I also fit in, is a challenge.
I had no issue getting into dungeon groups at least a few weeks ago, but because I am not getting any gear upgrades, I get left behind now.. in just a few weeks.
After this it is just a snowball effect, no gear = no invites = no raid experience = kicks if you do manage to get in, but then do something wrong.
Catching up is getting harder, and more of a chore. You feel pressured to get gear, so every run/kill you do not get a upgrade, you feel like it is wasted time. Especially if you have limited playing time available.
Does the one time you get the upgrade then feel better? Probably, but does the wasted effort balance the effort, it does not for me.
I have also seen people talk about being "done" gearing up too soon with the previous rendition. However, I feel like I haven't even really started, with no beginning in sight, let alone an end.
I love the SL stories I am playing through, but the end game is no longer accessable for me. And that makes me sad and stops me from playing at all.
And I am shocked how fast into the expansion that feeling is coming over me.