Romans 9 Exposed: Are You Seeing the Full Picture? | Leighton Flowers | Soteriology 101
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.พ. 2025
- Have you ever been taught to read the Bible a certain way, only to realize there might be another perspective? In this thought-provoking discussion, we dive deep into Romans 9 and the age-old theological debate between Calvinism, Arminianism, and Provisionism. Are we only seeing the "duck" when there's also a "rabbit" in the picture?
Join us as we challenge traditional interpretations, explore different viewpoints, and break down one of the most controversial passages in Scripture. Is salvation predestined for some and not for others, or has God provided a way for all? Let's take a fresh look at Romans 9 and discover the bigger picture together.
🔹 What does Romans 9 really mean?
🔹 The Calvinist vs. Provisionist debate explained
🔹 How our perspectives shape our understanding of Scripture
🔹 Why being open to different interpretations matters
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#LeightonFlowers #Romans9 #Calvinism
This is the first time I've seen Leighton preach! Awesome!
Geeeeesh Leighton Flowers has been fighting this good battle for so long
I asked AI ChatGPT:
"According to the Bible, how can a sinner living in hatred of Jesus Christ use her/his "free will" to choose Christ for salvation?"
Obviously, voting for Calvinism (Biblical Sovereign Grace Salvation theology, conservative Biblical Reformed Protestantism):
ChatGPT said:
"ChatGPT This is a profound theological question that touches on the nature of free will, human depravity, and God's grace.
According to Scripture, a sinner living in hatred of Jesus Christ cannot, by their own unaided "free will," choose Christ for salvation. Let’s unpack this in light of biblical teaching:
1. Human Nature in Sin The Bible teaches that humanity, apart from Christ, is in spiritual bondage to sin. Romans 3:10-12: "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one." Ephesians 2:1-3: Sinners are described as "dead in trespasses and sins," walking according to the course of the world and under the influence of the devil. A person in this state does not naturally desire God or His ways; their will is enslaved to sin (John 8:34).
2. Hatred Toward Christ John 15:18-25: Jesus states that the world hated Him before it hated His followers. This hatred stems from sin and rebellion against God. Romans 8:7: "For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot." A person who hates Christ is spiritually blind and unable to recognize their need for a Savior (2 Corinthians 4:4).
3. God's Sovereign Grace While human beings cannot, by their own free will, choose Christ, the Bible teaches that God works through His sovereign grace to draw sinners to Himself. John 6:44: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him." Ephesians 2:4-5: "But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-by grace you have been saved."
4. The Role of the Holy Spirit The Holy Spirit convicts sinners of their sin and opens their hearts to the truth of the Gospel. John 16:8-11: The Spirit convicts the world concerning sin, righteousness, and judgment. Acts 16:14: The Lord opened Lydia's heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul.
5. Faith as a Gift The ability to believe in Christ is itself a gift from God. Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." Philippians 1:29:" For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake."
6. God Changes the Heart Through regeneration (being born again), God transforms the sinner's heart, enabling them to respond to Him in faith. Ezekiel 36:26-27: "And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh."
John 3:3-8: Jesus emphasizes the necessity of being born of the Spirit to see and enter the kingdom of God.
Conclusion A sinner living in hatred of Jesus cannot choose Christ by their natural "free will" because their will is bound by sin. However, God, in His grace, works to draw sinners to Himself. Through the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit, God grants a new heart and faith, enabling the sinner to turn to Christ for salvation. This truth highlights the depth of God’s mercy and the power of His grace in saving those who are otherwise unable and unwilling to come to Him."
Can't wait to see the rest! A buddy of mine has recently turned calvinistic and "just hasn't heard a good reading of Romans 9" so I'm sure this'll be a good resource for that!
I hope he didn’t turn Calvinistic because he heard a sermon or read an article here and there; otherwise, it would do him no good in the long run.
I asked AI ChatGPT:
"According to the Bible, how can a sinner living in hatred of Jesus Christ use her/his "free will" to choose Christ for salvation?"
Obviously, voting for Calvinism (Biblical Sovereign Grace Salvation theology, conservative Biblical Reformed Protestantism):
ChatGPT said:
"ChatGPT This is a profound theological question that touches on the nature of free will, human depravity, and God's grace.
According to Scripture, a sinner living in hatred of Jesus Christ cannot, by their own unaided "free will," choose Christ for salvation. Let’s unpack this in light of biblical teaching:
1. Human Nature in Sin The Bible teaches that humanity, apart from Christ, is in spiritual bondage to sin. Romans 3:10-12: "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one." Ephesians 2:1-3: Sinners are described as "dead in trespasses and sins," walking according to the course of the world and under the influence of the devil. A person in this state does not naturally desire God or His ways; their will is enslaved to sin (John 8:34).
2. Hatred Toward Christ John 15:18-25: Jesus states that the world hated Him before it hated His followers. This hatred stems from sin and rebellion against God. Romans 8:7: "For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot." A person who hates Christ is spiritually blind and unable to recognize their need for a Savior (2 Corinthians 4:4).
3. God's Sovereign Grace While human beings cannot, by their own free will, choose Christ, the Bible teaches that God works through His sovereign grace to draw sinners to Himself. John 6:44: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him." Ephesians 2:4-5: "But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-by grace you have been saved."
4. The Role of the Holy Spirit The Holy Spirit convicts sinners of their sin and opens their hearts to the truth of the Gospel. John 16:8-11: The Spirit convicts the world concerning sin, righteousness, and judgment. Acts 16:14: The Lord opened Lydia's heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul.
5. Faith as a Gift The ability to believe in Christ is itself a gift from God. Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." Philippians 1:29:" For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake."
6. God Changes the Heart Through regeneration (being born again), God transforms the sinner's heart, enabling them to respond to Him in faith. Ezekiel 36:26-27: "And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh."
John 3:3-8: Jesus emphasizes the necessity of being born of the Spirit to see and enter the kingdom of God.
Conclusion A sinner living in hatred of Jesus cannot choose Christ by their natural "free will" because their will is bound by sin. However, God, in His grace, works to draw sinners to Himself. Through the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit, God grants a new heart and faith, enabling the sinner to turn to Christ for salvation. This truth highlights the depth of God’s mercy and the power of His grace in saving those who are otherwise unable and unwilling to come to Him."
@@Blibers hopefully you can help change his mind before he is in deep. God bless you
It's important to remember that when Paul said "Jacob have I loved, Essu have I hated," he was quoting Malachi chapter 1, wherein Jacob represents the nation of Israel, and Esau represents the nation of Edom.
Taken in context with the fact that Paul starts out Romans 9's first six verses talking about the nation of Israel as a whole rather than the salvation of individuals, there is strong evidence to support the corporate view of Election in Ronans 9.
Thanks for sharing - I was taught the corporate view and still accept it, but didn’t know about the Malachi link.
@GhostBearCommander I agree. Apostle Paul is talking about two different nations representing Jacob and Esau.
He is saying that there is a distinction between those who are partakers of the promise ( Israel ) and ( Edom )
Jacob represents the nation called by God and Esau represents the nation that God has not called. We are therefore compelled to accept the Sovereign counsel of God as it is concerned with the ultimate destinies of men.
This makes a mockery of Flowers theological position that God calls all men.
We are either numbered amongst the Elect before the foundation of the World, or God has provided us a way to be saved.
In other words are we Elect by God or do we elect ourselves.
Is God soverign in Soteriology or is man.
@@jaggedlines2257 Your first paragraph is correct.
However, after that, you forget that the latter part of Romans 9 explains how God opened up the possibility of Salvation to the Gentiles by the temporary judicial hardening of the Israelites (not their permanent reprobation). Thus, Romans 9 is contesting Salvation by Grace through faith instead of bloodline lineage or works, and it still remains corporate rather than individual in nature. It is furthermore expanded to both groups (explained further in chapter 11).
Paul was not attempting to shut down a bunch of Arminians or Palagians in the First Century. They didn't exist yet.
Furthermore, if you wish to say that Non-Calvinist Christian Theology makes Man Sovereign in Soteriolgy, or that Non-Calvinist Christians believe they Elect themselves to Salvation, you are blatantly straw-manning their position. Learn your opposition fully before proving that you don't know what you're talking about.
Try this for an experiment to see if you're intellectually worthy of the debate: Explain why Provisionists believe that they are NOT synergistic in their order of Salvation, and what verses do they use to prove this viewpoint? I'm curious if you can think beyond the conditioning of pre-packaged formulas. Although I doubt you will rise to the challenge.
@@jaggedlines2257 I partially agree with you, you interpretation does make a mockery, but it is of Jesus, not Flowers. Jesus says...
Matthew 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
And in the original Greek, men isn't even there, it is just draw all unto me. Or...
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance
Couple these (along with a plethora more verses) and you have to come to the conclusion that God draws but gives us the choice of whether to accept that drawing or refuse. The only way to accept reformed theology is to make some verses say more than they mean and change other verses to mean what they don't say
@@jaggedlines2257But what are we elect for? In the case of Jacob and Esau not the eternal destinies of individuals to salvation but the part their descendants would play in the purpose of God to bring about salvation by faith in Christ.
I don't think there is any passage where election/being chosen is to salvation.
Both election and predestination in my understanding refer what God has earmarked for believers _once they have believed_ , not a choice as to whether they believe or reject the gospel.
NT Wright explains it very well. Paul is questioning how it can be that his own people are rejecting Christ, and then answering that question prophetically and scripturally, but pointing out how God chose some for hardening for a time, only to turn around and use that hardening for His glory, serving the purpose of reaching the whole world with the Gospel. In Romans 9.6-13, Paul goes back Scripturally to show that the promise of God never was to be understood as though every physical descendant of Israel (Jacob) was heir of the promise, but only those who receive the Messiah through faith. God hasn't abandoned his promise to Jacob or Abraham by allowing Jews to reject the Messiah once the Messiah showed up on the scene. It was never about physical lines to determine who would reject or receive the Messiah. Having established that, Paul proceeds to show how allowing the rejection of the Messiah by the children of Abraham would lead to the Gentiles (all the other nations) hearing the Gospel and embracing the Messiah, which in turn would come around and be the causal factor in Israel finally embracing her Messiah as well, such that the whole world would hear and come to God in the same way: by faith in Jesus!
So those people he temporarily hardened were not salvifically provided for.
@@benjamincamping8134 God hardens hearts in response to a willful rejection of Christ.
Just stumbled on Provisionism as described on "Got Questions". Finally you're getting a fair representation on these bigger platforms Dr Flowers. It was a pleasant surprise.
Click bait - He never explained the text 👎🏼
I'm grateful for this ministry, and it's needed!!!...
But that being said, when i was introduced to calvinism as a new believer in 2008, instantly, i had disdain for it.. though i knew "if" it were true everything!!! Not only that, i was reading in Scripture would then seem veiled and would have to be double-sided/duplicitous in scope.. So i then realized the only One Who could help me in this seemingly "giant" was God, so i kept crying out to Him and trusting Him above man. Fast forward a couple of years after that, and i finally found soteriology 101, and Yay!!!
I asked AI ChatGPT:
"According to the Bible, how can a sinner living in hatred of Jesus Christ use her/his "free will" to choose Christ for salvation?"
Obviously, voting for Calvinism (Biblical Sovereign Grace Salvation theology, conservative Biblical Reformed Protestantism):
ChatGPT said:
"ChatGPT This is a profound theological question that touches on the nature of free will, human depravity, and God's grace.
According to Scripture, a sinner living in hatred of Jesus Christ cannot, by their own unaided "free will," choose Christ for salvation. Let’s unpack this in light of biblical teaching:
1. Human Nature in Sin The Bible teaches that humanity, apart from Christ, is in spiritual bondage to sin. Romans 3:10-12: "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one." Ephesians 2:1-3: Sinners are described as "dead in trespasses and sins," walking according to the course of the world and under the influence of the devil. A person in this state does not naturally desire God or His ways; their will is enslaved to sin (John 8:34).
2. Hatred Toward Christ John 15:18-25: Jesus states that the world hated Him before it hated His followers. This hatred stems from sin and rebellion against God. Romans 8:7: "For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot." A person who hates Christ is spiritually blind and unable to recognize their need for a Savior (2 Corinthians 4:4).
3. God's Sovereign Grace While human beings cannot, by their own free will, choose Christ, the Bible teaches that God works through His sovereign grace to draw sinners to Himself. John 6:44: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him." Ephesians 2:4-5: "But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-by grace you have been saved."
4. The Role of the Holy Spirit The Holy Spirit convicts sinners of their sin and opens their hearts to the truth of the Gospel. John 16:8-11: The Spirit convicts the world concerning sin, righteousness, and judgment. Acts 16:14: The Lord opened Lydia's heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul.
5. Faith as a Gift The ability to believe in Christ is itself a gift from God. Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." Philippians 1:29:" For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake."
6. God Changes the Heart Through regeneration (being born again), God transforms the sinner's heart, enabling them to respond to Him in faith. Ezekiel 36:26-27: "And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh."
John 3:3-8: Jesus emphasizes the necessity of being born of the Spirit to see and enter the kingdom of God.
Conclusion A sinner living in hatred of Jesus cannot choose Christ by their natural "free will" because their will is bound by sin. However, God, in His grace, works to draw sinners to Himself. Through the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit, God grants a new heart and faith, enabling the sinner to turn to Christ for salvation. This truth highlights the depth of God’s mercy and the power of His grace in saving those who are otherwise unable and unwilling to come to Him."
@@williamchurch9768 This is why we don't take our theology from ChatGPT
Yes God draws sinner, but can man resist that drawing? Let's see what the Bible says
Matthew 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
And in the original Greek, men isn't even there, it is just draw all unto me. Or...
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance
Couple these (along with a plethora more verses) and you have to come to the conclusion that God draws but gives us the choice of whether to accept that drawing or refuse. The only way to accept reformed theology is to make some verses say more than they mean and change other verses to mean what they don't say
@williamchurch9768 It's very odd that you'd even ask AI over asking the Creator of the universe..
Colossians 1:16 NKJV - For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
Hebrews 11:3 NKJV - By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.
you nor AI have a clue of my heart condition prior to trusting Jesus alone ‐only God Himself knows and Jesus is God the Son 👉and He is the Word of life.
Thanks!
Really appreciative of the resources published by Sot.101. In my experience, if you go to the text assuming Calvinism, you get Calvinism. If you don’t assume Calvinism, you don’t get Calvinism.
Rom 9 is definitely a tough passage, and it is about God’s sovereignty, but not about condemning people to hell before they ever exist. In fact, Paul summarizes his point in vs 30-33: God has sovereignly chosen to make faith the way to salvation, not works of the law. This parallels well with Galatians 3 and also explains why the Jewish reader would be so up in arms.
Who gets saved and who don’t? It seems to me that when we fail to see that God is outside of the realm of time and that he therefore see this from a different perspective than we do. God knows the answer to this question, and he knew it before we were born.
This truth puts me more in the Calvinist camp - at least within the theological perspective - since it is obvious that God chose to create this universe such that the people he knew before He created them, would be saved in the end. This is practically choosing some over others. Does that mean that we are puppets who get randomly saved or not? No, it means that God stands above your ability to choose, even if you make a choice. We can say “I choose” and there is truth to that, but in the end God was the one who chose you.
Is it just me, or is it weird to see TH-camrs standing up in full body in videos since you generally always see just their upper body or head? Lol
Leighton, you are looking great. I'm excited for you getting into shape 🎉
I cannot see the rabbit!! But I love the term provisionist! God does provide, how blessed we all are in Christ ❤
@ElwinRansom-r4z the fear of the Lord is the beginning of all wisdom...
I've already been down the Calvin's rabbit hole. The problem is....I had a great dad and I know our Heavely Father is far greater than my earthly father...not to mention the great "shouting" comment in other reply to you. I personally seen their comment as passion. People who believe they have the best Father in the world become a bit passionate when they believe their Father is being slandered. Yet, I do agree many are very glib about Christianity in general. Those who love Christ follow Christ. I'm fairly certain Jesus said that Himself. May you find this great treasure that assures all followers of salvation in the Messiah.
I don't see a duck or a rabbit. I see the Lamb.
@@ElwinRansom-r4zGod didn't have anything to be angry about till sin. If you think God needed to create people in order to take His wrath out on them because He was already wrathful, then you have some serious problem.
@ElwinRansom-r4z God is fair and just. Like I said, I've been down the rabbit hole of Calvinism. Redeem the time on the ground you have been given. Whosoever is whosoever. God's Word is mighty to save. We will see clearly when we see Him face to face. We are called to redeem the time and to make gains. How a Calvinist squares this I'll never know. You go find all the picked and "we" will go to the streets and the byways, to the poor and the naked. I'm pretty sure, again, it was Jesus who said the Kingdom of God is likened unto a king who was rejected by his servants when invited to his celebration and hence had his servants go to the oppressed and invite them. As far as the Amazon, I'll leave that to God's justice.
@@ElwinRansom-r4z Sir, you cannot tell us who all has or hasn't heard the Gospel. You aren't God. You have no idea who has or hasn't heard it. God can speak to anyone at anytime in any way He pleases.
Furthermore, the willful rejection of Christ is also an insult to God the Father. “He that believes not has made God a liar, because he has not believed the record that God gave of His Son.” God has Himself often borne testimony to His dear Son. “Him has God the Father set forth to be a propitiation for our sins.” In rejecting Christ, you reject God’s testimony and God’s gift. It is a direct assault upon the truthfulness and lovingkindness of the gracious Father when you trample on or cast aside His priceless, peerless gift of love. - Charles Spurgeon, The Unbelievers Unhappy Condition
Praise the lord. Br. Good to see you preaching. Please don't stop. We love your teaching. We need solid food. May Jesus Christ bless you br. Amen
For a long time I missed that Rom. 9.16-18 is referring to how God had mercy on Pharaoh, yet that is what is going on there. God said concerning Pharaoh that he could have wiped him out and never let him be in the position of power that he was in, but instead God showed mercy on Pharaoh and let him achieve great power, fame, and wealth. All that mercy was so that God could use the defeat of Pharaoh to show the nations (the Gentiles) that there was a God greater than Pharaoh and greater than the gods of the greatest nation on earth! The news of the God who defeated Pharaoh went abroad to all the nations, and now in the church era God would likewise show mercy to Israel, only to have them harden their hearts, but how God would use the hardening of Jewish hearts to proclaim the Gospel to all the Gentiles throughout the whole earth! The idea was never to simply win one nation over to Himself, but to have the Gospel reach the whole world! It was never about one person Pharaoh, but about the global plans and purposes of the living God. It was never just about the Jews, but about the whole earth! God will use mercy and hardening to win the most people over to Himself, ensuring that the Gospel is never confined to just one small corner of the earth, but gets out to everyone!
Glory to our LORD! Hallelujah! Hosanna! God us rescuing Calvinists from their error!!!
@@ElwinRansom-r4z judicial hardening :) jk
@ElwinRansom-r4z That's a question best left for God to answer. God bless!
@ElwinRansom-r4z Because God's word said so.
The Bible speaks about the gospel being preached to all nations and reaching the "four corners of the earth" in several passages.
1. Matthew 24:14 (ESV) - “And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.”
Jesus prophesied that the gospel would be preached worldwide before His return.
2. Mark 16:15 (ESV) - “And he said to them, ‘Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.’”
The Great Commission commands believers to spread the gospel globally.
3. Acts 1:8 (ESV) - “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
Jesus instructed His disciples to be His witnesses everywhere, extending to the ends of the earth.
4. Revelation 7:9 (ESV) - “After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands.”
This passage confirms that people from every part of the world will ultimately hear and respond to the gospel.
5. Isaiah 11:12 (ESV) - “He will raise a signal for the nations and will assemble the banished of Israel, and gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.”
While this primarily refers to Israel’s restoration, it also reflects the global nature of God’s work.
The concept of the "four corners of the earth" is often symbolic of the entire world, indicating that the gospel message will reach every nation, tribe, and people before the end times.
@ElwinRansom-r4z Are you familiar with the 144,000 in Revelations?
It's not our job to figure out exactly how God will do it. It's our job to trust and know that He always keeps His word.
@@ElwinRansom-r4z Titus 2:11-12
[11]For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
[12]Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Leighton: "I have a guitar with one string and I spend all my time playing it". 😀😀
@@Robert_Sparkman_12 it’s called Quantum String Cymatic noodeling!
Off the subject, but man Leighton is losing weight. I'm 23 and he's in better shape than me. 😅🤦♂️
Maybe he's doing carnivore, warren is doing it
Hopefully, not a cancer.
@@Roottus I haven't heard anything about that. All I know is he's been dieting and exercising.
@@jacobbyarlay3420 Yes, fasting and praying is the way to go.
@ElwinRansom-r4z yea carnivore
This is what protestand is going through, because we have left the church ore the right teachings from our early church fathers.
Orthodox Church teaching and traditions is helping me to heal.
Jesu Krist vær mig nådig.
Is there a link to the full teaching?
Agreed where's the full one. Found it its at the end of the video there's a link
Here you go! th-cam.com/users/liveQsWApciFaMY?si=FNfia0qPUwL26eno
I didn't know you had legs.
😂😂😂
Lol 😅
Good one !
😂😂😂🎉 lol
As always I hit 👍. Great intro to Romans 9 discussions... but not gonna label or Pigeon hold myself to "Provisionist". The last thing the body of Christ needs is another extra biblical "ist"/"ism" that needs defining.
Why must you change and twist the words all about? Why can't you just believe what it says. Corporate election is a convoluted idea that doesn't come organically from the text.
Unconditional election is so convoluted and doesn't come organically from the text.
@@DelicueMusic The Bible is full of support of God's election of those he loves. For example, John 6:44, Deuteronomy 10:14-15; Psalm 33:12; Psalm 65:4; Psalm 106:5; Haggai 2:23; Matthew 11:27; Matthew 22:14; Matthew 24:31; Luke 18:7; Romans 8:28-30; Romans 8:33; Romans 11:28; Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Titus 1:1; 1 Peter 1:1-2; 1 Peter 2:8-9; Revelation 17:14; Mark 13:20; John 15:16; Acts 13:48; Acts 18:27; 1 Corinthians 1:27-29; Philippians 1:29; Philippians 2:12-13; Ephesians 1:4; Ephesians 2:10; 1 Thessalonians 1:4-5; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14; 2 Timothy 1:9; James 2:5; Revelation 13:8; Revelation 17:8.
@@DelicueMusic Also, being an purposefully irritating, petty little copy-cat isn't becoming of a Christian.
@dereddavis What if you were right and wrong at the same time @derek?
What if your doctrine of unconditional election was true but misapplied?
You ask why he has to twist the words around, why can’t he just believe what it says? 1Tim 2:4, why can’t you just believe what it says? Why must you twist it all around?
I would guess that the reformed doctrine of election has an ounce of truth, but a half truth is a whole lie. It is taken too far and applied to the wrong people.
I’d be happy to explain Romans 9-11 the way I understand it if you like. It has some unconditional election in it.
7:20 - Eric and Drew! HE SAID THE THING!!!
I'm a Christian. This title is biblical.
Any chance that the Sunday evening on predestination will be made available as well?
you will understand the black and white written word if only you have the right goggles on .. man , that was brilliant
I have never been more disappointed in an 8:09 min span of time… this video may as well have had no sound on bc nothing of substance was said.
i agree that it is very easy to get stuck with a particular mindset for reading and understanding the Bible. We become prisoners of our own minds.
Dear brother, can you please send me links to some of your videos where you talked about the death orders made by Calvin in Geneva. Many thanks in advance,
Ibrahim from Lebanon
Well done
Dr Flowers could someone please tell me if you have a free will do you loose it when you get saved. If not the you must be able to loose your salvation. Ex Arminian Calvinist.
It's shocking to me that any Christian would consider themselves a calvinist. Calvin was a murderer and calvinist chose to overlook that truth. Calvinist makes God out to be a serial killer. God bless y'all
@ElwinRansom-r4z please don't miss the point. God offers salvation to all humans, and that crystal clear in His word. John Calvin preached a different gospel.
@@ElwinRansom-r4z not too far at all. Calvin preached the doctrine of election which is antithetical to scripture. It’s pretty awful.
@ElwinRansom-r4z No, think about Calvinism. It's only for a select few. Jesus died for all, 1 John 2:2. Leading calvinist twist scripture regularly. I appreciate your feedback.
@@ElwinRansom-r4zMurder is ok for God but punishes us for murder? gotcha
@@ElwinRansom-r4z DW: Calvin's god is different. He creates the vast majority of the total human population *THE MANY* specifically for eternal torment in a lake of fire - for his good pleasure.
Also - every sinful evil impulse that comes to pass within every human brain - is FIRST CONCEIVED in Calvin's god's mind - and then *MADE* to infallibly and irresistibly come to pass - and humans are granted NO SAY in the matter.
John Calvin explains
-quote
by the eternal *GOOD PLEASURE* of god though the reason does not appear, they are *NOT FOUND* but *MADE* worthy of destruction. - (Concerning the Eternal Predestination of god pg 121)
John Calvin
-quote
The creatures...are so governed by the secret counsel of god, that *NOTHING HAPPENS* but what he has knowingly and willingly decreed. (Institutes 1. 16. 3)
Calvin's god also creates a certain percentage of believers - specifically for eternal torment in the lake of fire - for his good pleasure
These are called CHAFF believers - whom he divinely deceives - giving them a FALSE SENSE of salvation.
These Calvinists will eventually wake up in the lake of fire - and then realize what they were created for.
John Calvin explains:
-quote
But the Lord....instills into their minds such *A SENSE* ..as can be felt without the Spirit of adoption. (Institutes 3.2.11)
-quote
He illumines *ONLY FOR A TIME* to partake of it; then he....strikes them with even greater blindness (Institutes 3.24.8)
Gifted in preaching. Where's the rest!!
This was somewhat clickbait, it never got into the meat of the matter in my opinion
I’m not crazy about the way theologians create words to describe specific doctrines. Doctrine is based on scripture. In my mind all these different buzz words that they have concocted complicate the matter. And I think it’s due to what apostle Paul called the wind of doctrine.
Ephesians 4:14 KJVS
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
And we can speculate upon why men do that, but I think Apostle Paul also hit the nail on the head.
1 Timothy 6:10 KJVS
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
Down through the ages, they separated the flock of God in order to essentially fleece them. And to make their own little kingdoms of this world. And that requires a certain degree of deception.
Are there any Provisionist or Open Theist led churches in the Tampa, Florida, area?
Most Calvary Chapels are in line with Provisionist theology
@geoffreymilke5176 Thank you
Hey Leighton, did you ever notice Christ doesn’t say I am the Alpha and Omega I know the beginning from the end? No, what he says is, I am the Alpha and Omega the beginning and the end. I might be stepping out here, but I think there’s a reason for that.
If God sent man to hell, does god cruel? Nope. He sent sinner to hell. If from the foundation of the world he choose some to be saved does he not just? Nope Those people repent and come to jesus!
The election is unconditional, the salvation is conditional. Is There something wrong with it?
Made no sense
[John 1:12-13 KJV] 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were BORN, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but OF GOD.
‘Born of God’ is the key group of words
In the same way, we (the saved) have not chosen to be born of God nor have we chosen to come from the womb of our mother.
Not we but God alone has decided it so.
Leighton showing off those guns 💪
The 9th chapter of Romans is about the election of God.
Romans 9:10-11,13,16,18-24 KJVS
And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; [11] (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) [13] As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. [16] So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. [18] Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. [19] Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? [20] Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? [21] Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? [22] What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: [23] And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, [24] Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
But you see, they have to gloss over these scriptures in order to say there’s free will. Because the notion of free will puts a lot of people in the pews who are afraid of eternal hell. And of course they’re putting money in the collection basket. But you see in the end God makes everything good.
Now these next verses applies to all Israel. But in my mind it extends to all of humanity.
Romans 11:5,23,30-34 KJVS
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. [23] And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. [30] For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: [31] Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. [32] For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. [33] O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! [34] For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Paul answers that last question in 1 Corinthians.
1 Corinthians 2:16 KJVS
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
dearth of Biblical literacy
@ more than that
Ephesians 4:14 KJVS
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
"Ahhhhhh Reformed Theology and the clear picture of Scripture attacks my world view!" Proceeds to literally twist Scripture so it'll fit. SMH.
Deformed Theology
James 3:1.
Here is the true interpretation. God chooses, loved Jacob, and rejected, hated Esau.
Esau a vessel of wrath fitted to destruction, while Jacob a vessel of mercy aforeprepared unto glory.
He did not hate Jacob amd or Esau before they were born, as they were both chosen in Christ before the world began and were holy and blameless.
It wasn't until later that the love hate relationships occurred and you can see it in the lives of both. Jacob walked with God, and were His beloved people, while Esau did not walk with God but after the flesh.
Its not only his weight but his inner Jew shining thru
Intresting ❤❤🎉
Why continue to fight the same battle ? Just submit to the sovereignty of the Holy God and have peace.
Because that's what God decreed for him to do. He's very much in submission to God's sovereign will.
Who is living your Christian life?
Dr. Flowers, there's the duck and the rabbit but I have even a different, non-Calvinistic take on Rom 9 13. You have my book but I'm sure you've not read it. Let me just say that you would find my view extremely compelling
0:21 Alright! Let’s see what we got here….?
If one does not study to know who God is, and how He does things and what He says, that person will have trouble decerning the more difficult scriptures such as Romans 9. If your belief does not hold up to everything that God has said and done, you need to examine it further. Praying for God to reveal it to you as well but be prepared to wait for His answer. I've had to wait years in one particular instance, but He did reveal it. Wait on the Lord is not just words. God bless your seeking.
I agree of most of your view. Except the part on waiting for years for particular question. But when you ask for complete truth,I agree. I had few false believes that I had wrestle with God about for more than a year to accept.
But it is because we are 1st. dull of hearing , 2nd having walls of created belief always waiting for confirmation of our current believe. But ignoring/rejecting when when the Word comes that is completely opposite of I would say mainstream believe. .. Like for example ´´hell´´ Simply created lie that if exposed will cancel many ´´religious´´business,would remove fear from Gods children,would stop people judging and condemning each others, would put all those that made themself (priests,scholars) important down . And most important would brought TRUE image of the Father. Not baal in who mainstream Christians believe. But calling him god of the Bible.
I do not study,not read..5 years ago I asked for the truth. Not seen point to read when smarter than me didn't figure out. Now 5 years later,I had situations when write to someone its just coming out..Perfect sentences. It was like I do not write them. To the point after to read again and say to myself : What the heck are you writing? I have never know that what I wrote,or read. Just to find out after month or so,that what I replied is in the Bible..
Man need to ask for a daily bread,not to eat more,because Pro 25 : 27
And if man believe in God who is alive and speak ,he/she dont even need to study ,just to follow examples John 7 : 15 - 16 and Gal 1 : 11 . 12
✝🍞Grace be with all those who love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen.🍷✝
I don’t see a rabbit or a duck….I see a comet burning in the atmosphere of some remote planet.
Romans isn’t about all that. Theologians needs something to do I guess.
Romans 9 is the very center of the letter and sets the stage for Romans 12:1-2. Gentiles in Rome struggled with Jews and Paul spends the first 7 chapters talking about how Gentiles are the exact same as Jews…they are sinners. Romans 8 is about the Spirit that will deliver any Jew or Gentile who is open to the love of God. And all that is the foundation of trying to convince the Roman Gentile believer that their new role in the world is to be a priest towards the Jewish people.
Get rid of all the other nonsense. It pollutes the water.
States “we have free will” as though it’s established. Then on this false premise, builds his theology.
Because God ordained it
Romans 9-11 is just the fulfillment and d Zechariah 13:7-9. Culmination of Deut 30:19 in line with John 14:6 and Acts 3:21-24
Jesus was the life and death blessing and curse upon the nation ending in 70 AD
[Romans 3:9-18 KJV] 9 What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips: 14 Whose mouth [is] full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet [are] swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery [are] in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Man by NATURE cannot go to God of his own accord, nor does anyone even seek him of his own accord. Do you understand?
More!
@Ironleatherwood. You’re not answering my question. Yes, God offers salvation to all. What is the Final, Decisive, REASON you believed and your neighbor did not? The answer is God’s GRACE is what makes the difference.
The guy speaking in this video has 0 authority
Most denominations will not acknowledge or do what apostle Paul commanded to be done.
1 Timothy 4:9-11 KJVS
This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. [10] For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. [11] These things command and teach.
And likely the reason they do this is because the fear of eternal hell puts a lot of money in the collection basket. And all that money goes towards building their kingdoms of this world. Which in a very real sense is I idolatry. The worship of the work of their own hands. By denying the power of God.
[John 6:37, 39, 44 KJV] 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. ... 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. ... 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
What do we understand from this?
1) No one can come to the Father unless the Father gives him to Jesus VERS 37
2) Everyone who has been handed over by the Father will also come 100% to the Lord Jesus Christ and will be in his hands until the resurrection. It is therefore impossible to be lost once you have been given by the Father.
"that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day"
Eternal security is therefore correct VERS 39
3) Nor will or can anyone ever come to the Lord Jesus unless he is drawn by the Father. VERS 44
4) This also makes it clear that what has been given to the Lord Jesus Christ will also come to him.
After all, it tells us that EVERYTHING THAT HAS BEEN GIVEN TO HIM WILL COME TO HIM, so there is no possibility that there will be a rejection on the part of the person given over, nor of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Cliffhanger!?!? Nooooo
Dr. Leighton- Please explain:
[Heb 11:8 NASB95] 8 By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going.
[Gen 15:4-6 NASB95] 4 Then behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying, "This man will not be your heir; but one who will come forth from your own body, he shall be your heir." 5 And He took him outside and said, "Now look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able to count them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be." 6 Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.
Why wasn't Abraham justified by his faith leaving Ur sometime before he was 75 years old; after receiving God's Covenant Call; By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed....
Why wasn't Abraham justified by faith then; from Gen 11-15, Abraham by faith obeyed, built an altar & called on the name of the LORD... but not justified??
About when Abram was 85 years old- considering Ishmael was born at 86; he was justified in Gen 15; Then he believed in the LORD, and He reckoned it to him as righteousness?
What was the difference in his faith?
in the contest- the person being discussed in Rom 4:1-5 is Abraham: why then after walking by faith... obeyed, built an altar, calling on the name of the LORD; but the Holy Spirit through Paul states at that justification in Gen 15; that God justifies the ungodly- the unacceptable worshiper of God & under wrath (Rom 1:18- wrath upon the ungodliness of men): Abraham just before he was justified was an ungodly, unrighteous, sinner: an enemy of God (Rom 5:6-11): Yet he by faith obeyed????
How does this explain: [Rom 3:10 NASB95] 10 as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
how does this explain the Gospel?
And if Abram was unrighteous; yet by faith obeyed..... How can God promise to give the promises to Abram; the enemy of God?
How can the LORD bring Sarah to faith to conceive the promised Seed the very day He promised: yet before that she was broken in bareness, past her years to where no ovulation existed: in unbelief; yet the very day the LORD stated- and this is repeated: Sarah: by faith received power to receive life giving seed..
[Heb 11:11 NASB95] 11 By faith even Sarah herself received ability to conceive, even beyond the proper time of life, since she considered Him faithful who had promised.
Why does Isaiah ask those who seek righteousness to look back upon these things with Abraham & Sarah- how do these things magnify the Gospel?
[Isa 51:1-2 NASB95] 1 "Listen to me, you who pursue righteousness, Who seek the LORD: Look to the rock from which you were hewn And to the quarry from which you were dug. 2 "Look to Abraham your father And to Sarah who gave birth to you in pain; When [he] [was but] one I called him, Then I blessed him and multiplied him."
Can God have mercy on anyone apart from the Agency of Christ: being joined in covenant union with Him?
[Rom 9:15 NASB95] 15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION."
[Rom 15:9-12 NASB95] 9 and for the Gentiles to glorify God for His mercy; as it is written, "THEREFORE I WILL GIVE PRAISE TO YOU AMONG THE GENTILES, AND I WILL SING TO YOUR NAME." 10 Again he says, "REJOICE, O GENTILES, WITH HIS PEOPLE." 11 And again, "PRAISE THE LORD ALL YOU GENTILES, AND LET ALL THE PEOPLES PRAISE HIM." 12 Again Isaiah says, "THERE SHALL COME THE ROOT OF JESSE, AND HE WHO ARISES TO RULE OVER THE GENTILES, IN HIM SHALL THE GENTILES HOPE."
I wonder these things- what do you say?
Abraham's belief was credited as righteousness, not when he went to Haran, or when he finally left Haran and went where the Lord led him, though he did these things by faith.
Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness...
..when he believed God for the Promised son.
That's the difference
That's why Paul quoted Genesis 15 instead of 11.
I I I me me me, ego ego ego.
You you you, I have the answer you couldn't possibly know how to read I'm the pastor listen to me. Prideful critical nature is the flesh. Wake up folks and repent..
Ngl I saw the rabbit
God wants all men to be saved first Timothy 2:4, second peter 3:9!
God, predestines groups or plurals ONLY, never individuals. Ephesians 1 -2 points: “ us and we” are pre-destined never “you and I“! And 11 times in 11 verses from 3-14 you have to remain “in Christ“ (in him, in whom) to be predestined!
Romans 9:1-3 Paul is talking about the nation of Israel, all the way to the end of chapter 11 ! So, “Jacob, I loved, Esau I hated“ is genesis 25:23 “there are two nations in your womb“! It’s talking about ‘Nations,’ not individuals in the whole context of those three chapters! Stop taking it out of context, along with Ephesians 1!
Of course, we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Esau despised his birthright !
So God truly does love all people, he truly did make hell for the devil and his angels just as Matthew 25:41 says !
Even the 42 youths, mauled by the 2 bears, was because they mocked Elijah‘s rapture, a.k.a. the resurrection , they were saying “go on up Baldy “ ; and ALL their prophets just recently Were killed by Elijah and they should’ve known to stop worshiping Baal! Bethel was the headquarters of Baal worship, where this took place! 490 priests got killed by Elijah, There was no Priests around,; should’ve been a gigantic clue.
So God never arbitrarily and haphazardly deals with any human being ! His love cannot be measured says Romans 8!
But if you’re a Calvinist, it’s “his love cannot be measured , (Wink, wink)“!
Come out of the false belief system of Calvinism ! Now you have no excuse because you cannot out argue these verses, let’s hear you try!
Read Matthew 25 the parable of the Calvinists, a.k.a. talents ! Where the guy buried his talent calling God,- somebody who doesn’t judge rightly & he was thrown into hell as a result! He had the wrong view of God, & So Will a Calvinist, they’ll have a callous view of God & The love of Christs sacrificial death on the cross!
Jesus was crucified before the foundations of the world, but he only had to die one time Says hebrews, so don’t get it wrong like Moses; when did Jesus die ?
So this trumps predestination before the foundations of the world, because God chose to to write this to disprove & trump predestination!
Revelation 13:8
@jjphank Hey bud,
I was talking about the picture lol. When I finish the video I'll get back to you 👍
@ no, I’m for reals
@@jjphank So I read your long winded very familiar argument.
Upon finishing the video.
I'm gonna say I see a turtle.
🙃
I saw the Lamb.
Flowers believes a freewill man center gospel,
Did you comment of your own, or is God controlling you like a puppet?
Whether you like it or not God controls everything.
I dont know a single Calvinist who refers to himself as a Calvinist.
This video is like a click bait.
It ends like this world do when they try to make you wonder what is he going to say.
He doesn't look like a christian to me.
He is also inventing another unbiblical name next to calvinism and arminianism.
The minds of people - carnal one) shuts down when they hear about predestination and it's very confortabile to find a few verses here and another guy like this who interpret the Scripture based on his incapability of understanding through faith what's written.
By the way, should I interpret what you say or I can take it as it is said?
He any many, are influenced by others with the same unfaithful view.
The flesh screams "I choose" and "I do".
Without humbling ourselves we won't grow to see that everything comes from Him.
I was born again like I was born in this natural world, without contributing with anything. Dead in sin is a reality.
Take it seriously, He brought us to life through grace, and it's not from us.
Philippians 2:13
" for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure."
1 Corinthians 4:7
For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not receive it?
Etc etc
When you live things like this, you don't need interpretations.
Humble and accept that everything is from Him
"..interpret the scripture based on his incapability of faith what's written..."
How do you know you understand it?
Seems you're granting yourself the very thing in question.
Do you understand that is a fallacy?😅
Btw: "predestination" Biblically is never unto salvation.
The term is always used of those already saved, things the Lord has foreordained them to do and be.
@@shredhed572 that's your wrong opinion, because bible's asserts is this: And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified, Romans 8:30
Why would you need someone to interpret this passage when God's word is so clear?!
@@UnfrozenCavemanLawyer-xq1qi trying to find a cracking point.. that's Pharisees job. Taking something out of context...
Now you have another view!
The view of provisionism!!
Wow, I'm sure there are many that believes this good orator/pastor or whatever he is.
My friend, listen to preachers, search and get deeper into the word of God, but don't let every deceiver deceive you with his theories if you're not convinced that what he says is compatible with what the Bible says.
Just think about this Romans 9 chapter and look what it says from vers 9 to 21 and think for yourself.
... Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad-in order that God’s purpose in election might stand...
After all arguments Paul's imagination even argue with you saying "One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?”
The carnal mind gets blocked at many things from the Bible, especially when it comes to predestination, because it looks like there is an unfair God. Our mind just cannot accept what's written and is just looking for an answer that fits into our understanding.
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned ( Corinthians 2:14)
Crucify your flesh and see that all things are for Him, not for us.
When I read Ephesians, my impression is that it is written based on my life, if you know what I mean.
I was dead in sin, but at one point in time I was brought to life.
I don't like those terms like Calvinism or Arminianism, I avoid them and I have repulsion at them. Now you have another therm from another point of view, which means a continuation of falling away from the Bible.
Leighton, why do you keep doing this, nullifying the grace of God by trying to suggest that man is the final arbiter of his salvation? God regenerates by His Holy Spirit (John 3, Titus 3) which then results in faith if one is of age and of sound mind. Again, John the Baptist received the Holy Spirit in the womb (Luke 1:15)! This is how God saves the elect unborn that die or are killed, the elect infants and young children that die or are killed before having the capacity for faith, and the elect of unsound mind. Gal 1:9: "As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!"
(Children) "..before having the capacity for faith.."
According to the "doctrine" of TD no one has the "capacity" for faith, so I don't know what a child's capacity has do do with it.
Also you said God regenerates...which then results in faith
Can you show me a passage that says God spiritually regenerates first, and then comes saving faith, in that order?
I've looked and can't find it.
@@UnfrozenCavemanLawyer-xq1qi, exactly, if salvation is by faith alone which brings regeneration (according to Arminians like you, I guess), how is God going to save any young infant or child that doesn't yet have the capacity for faith, whether you believe in Total Depravity or not? E.g., cleary a 1-year-old doesn't have that capacity, whether you think that 1-year-old is totally depraved or not. I believe that 1-year-old is totally depraved, but if God has regenerated him/her by His Holy Spirit before he/she can savingly believe (in Elohim/YHWH under the Old Covenant or in Jesus under the New), that infant is saved. So, no violation of the Total Depravity doctrine.
Re regeneration precedes faith, I direct you to a careful study of John 3 and Titus 3. Lots of scripture is written from man's perspective of choosing God, but from God's perspective it is about Him choosing us, the elect. Jesus said to the Apostles, "You did not choose me, but I chose you." It's amazing that He saves any of us minuscule unholy creatures. Read about the conversion of Lydia, the first Christian in Europe. The Lord "opened her heart to believe." Romans 9 is clearly about salvation, God having mercy on some but hardening others. God loved Jacob, but hated Esau. We are all deservedly heading to death and hell down here, unless God calls us off "death row." I recommend you study the topic at Ligonier dot org and Monergism dot com.
He has never said that “man is the final arbiter of his salvation” that is straw manning the argument. I would suggest you try to actually playfully consider the opposing arguments and read God’s word without the lens of “Reformed theology” before accusing a brother in Christ of something.
@@UnfrozenCavemanLawyer-xq1qi, Total Depravity says that no one has the capacity for faith unless regenerated by the Holy Spirit. So, if God regenerates a fetus, or infant, or young child before they can believe, they are still saved. If you say that faith precedes regeneration, then how does God save the unborn or infants or young children that die before believing? It's clear: He seals them with His Spirit.
Re regeneration preceding faith, carefully study John 3 and Titus 3. Lots of scripture is from man's perspective of man choosing God, but from God's perspective, it is God choosing man. Jesus said to His Apostles, "You did not choose Me, but I chose you." It is amazing that He chooses any of us minuscule unholy creatures. We are all deservedly heading to death and hell down here unless God pardons us and takes us off "death row." Think of how God saved the 1st Christian in Europe, Lydia: "the Lord opened her heart to respond to the message preached by Paul." Romans 9 is clearly about salvation and it is clear that God has mercy on some and hardens others. Jacob He loved, but Esau He hated. I suggest you study more on the subject at Ligonier dot org and Monergism dot com.
@@joycegaffner4102, yes he does, when he says that man has "free will" to have faith or not to have faith. Fallen man's wills are held captive by the devil unless regenerated by the Holy Spirit. Then a man can be willing to believe. See my reply to @Unfrozen as well. God bless.
the optical illusion analogy actually undermines your own point - truth isnt subjective or based on our perspective. paul's argument in Romans 9 is crystal clear when you follow his logical flow: he's defending God's absolute sovereignty in salvation. notice how he anticipates and answers the exact objections you'd expect if he was teaching divine election - "is God unjust?" "why does he still find fault?" these objections only make sense if Paul is teaching what you're trying to avoid. its like saying a stop sign might mean "go" if we just look at it differently. the text means what it means, and paul even uses the potter/clay analogy to drive home God's right to do as he pleases with his creation. trying to soften this into a mere historical narrative about nations misses the whole thrust of paul's argument about individual salvation. lets stick to what the text actually says rather than trying to find creative ways around it.
100% on point.
Even the very first verse of chapter 9, Paul begins by saying what he IS about to say is NOT a lie, the Holy Spirit bearing witness. Flowers entire ministry is based on turning the truth of God's Grace in Election upon its head.
Leighton is NOT saying or implying that truth is subjective or based on one's perspective like you insinuated. This is a perfect example of the duck and the rabbit Leighton is talking about. You watched the video through a Calvinistic lense and came away with the idea of truth being subjective and based on one's perspective when that's NOT Leighton's point at all.
If you're unable to get the simple point this short clip is trying to convey, how in the world would you be able to get what Leighton or any non-Calvinist has to say about Romans 9 or any other passage?! You can't!
This might be hard for you to comprehend, but Romans 9 was one of the passages that led Leighton out of Calvinism.
@@gk.4102 The irony here is thick. If the duck/rabbit analogy isn't meant to suggest multiple valid interpretations, then what's its purpose? The entire illustration rests on different people "seeing" different valid meanings - which actually undermines Leighton's position.
And regarding Romans 9 leading him out of Calvinism - that's like saying studying gravity led someone to believe things fall up. Paul literally asks "why does God still blame us?" - a question that makes zero sense in your view. Your interpretation requires Paul to be the worst communicator ever, raising objections to an argument he wasn't even making.
btw maybe tone down the condescension when your argument has this many holes in it.
@@B-mg1pr _"If the duck/rabbit analogy isn't meant to suggest multiple valid interpretations, then what's its purpose?"_
Very good question but I won't answer it for you because it's a great opportunity for you to be humble enough to learn to stop imposing your own reading onto what someone else says, but humbly strive to discover their actual point. Why is Leighton bringing up this analogy? What does Leighton have in mind when bringing up this analogy? Would Leighton AGREE with your representation of what he said? That's YOUR homework!
I cannot stress enough how important it is for you to develop the BASIC critical thinking capability of accurately representing a person in a way that they would agree EVEN IF you totally disagree with their arguments and conclusions.
Unless and until you're able to correctly understand and represent Leighton in this short clip, I'm afraid that you're hopelessly lost in ever being able to understand anything anyone who disagrees with you says.
I'm still shaking my head that you genuinely believe that in this short clip, Leighton is saying that Truth is subjective and dependent on someone's perspective. What?!
@@gk.4102 Actually, you're the one who needs to do some homework here. Leighton's analogy only works if he's suggesting multiple valid readings of Romans 9 exist - otherwise it completely falls flat. There's no third option.
Let's be clear: either the analogy implies interpretive relativism (which defeats his point) or it's just rhetorical fluff that doesn't advance his argument. And here's the thing - most Reformed believers, myself included, used to hold the provisionist view. We've seen both "perspectives," and it was precisely through careful study of passages like Romans 9 that we came to understand the clear teaching of God's sovereignty.
And speaking of representing views accurately - notice how you've written paragraphs about my supposed inability to understand without actually explaining what Leighton "really" means. That's because when you strip away the condescending lectures about critical thinking, his argument reduces to "maybe you're just seeing it wrong" - which is exactly what I criticized.
btw for someone preaching about humility, you might want to dial back the patronizing tone. just a thought
There's no "dive in deep into Romans 9" here.
Still sad. Of course he has the right to preach what he believes is true, but it’s so sad that almost his whole ministry is about this issue, once again exegesis in a debate is much different than preaching from a pulpit. We all know he painfully lost the debate twice. That’s why he continues to do this. It’s almost like a personal vendetta. Seems sad
Brother love your teaching but, the enemy is subtle and the church is following the immodesty of the world. Your pants are too tight and too thin which is inappropriate
Clickbait
I don’t see a rabbit or a duck….I see a comet burning in the atmosphere of some remote planet.
Romans isn’t about all that. Theologians needs something to do I guess.
Romans 9 is the very center of the letter and sets the stage for Romans 12:1-2. Gentiles in Rome struggled with Jews and Paul spends the first 7 chapters talking about how Gentiles are the exact same as Jews…they are sinners. Romans 8 is about the Spirit that will deliver any Jew or Gentile who is open to the love of God. And all that is the foundation of trying to convince the Roman Gentile believer that their new role in the world is to be a priest towards the Jewish people.
Get rid of all the other nonsense. It pollutes the water.
Most denominations will not acknowledge or do what apostle Paul commanded to be done.
1 Timothy 4:9-11 KJVS
This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. [10] For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. [11] These things command and teach.
And likely the reason they do this is because the fear of eternal hell puts a lot of money in the collection basket. And all that money goes towards building their kingdoms of this world. Which in a very real sense is I idolatry. The worship of the work of their own hands. By denying the power of God.