The thing that shook me out of calvinism was reading about Christ weeping for Jersusalem. I couldn't understand why a Potter would weep for vessels he made for the garbage.
Yes! That and wanting to gather them like a hen gathers her chicks. It's God, what's stopping Him? Calvinists love to argue as if somehow God sovereignly granting free will limits God's power. But God deeply desiring it and then turning around and decreeing that it can't be any other way would make God schizophrenic. And He "casts no shifting shadow of change." So the two (competing) wills of God thing is totally bogus.
And there are many such instances of this bizarre behavior. For example, why does God get angry with Israel for sinning when He didn't give them the option to do otherwise?
In college I was devastated after being slaughtered by a better prepared Calvinist in a proof texting tit-for-tat. I intuitively knew Calvinism is wrong, but it seemed that the Bible gave Calvinists validation. So I went back to partying... until I saw, years later, a Calvinist confronted with Matt 23:37 - an offer of mercy extended to them which He wanted them to reject? Such a thing is a first class farce, my Savior would never be guilty of such a thing.
The answer to the main question is so clear, that no one can dispute it. Joshua 24 Verse 15 (KJV) And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Yup, Joshua 24 :15 sounds like we were given a choice. God gave us free will and we are responsible for working out our own salvation. However, we can't do it all on our own, hence the verses that say we're not justified by our works. Through God's grace, he helps us the rest of the way.
@@halodisciple8459 Yes. These are just a few of the MANY verses that speak of people making a choice; where Calvinism says, there is "No choosing" God decides. Isaiah 56:4 says, "For this is what the Lord says: “To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who CHOOSE what pleases me..." Isaiah 65:12 says, "...I spoke but you did not listen. You did evil in my sight and CHOSE what displeases me.” Isaiah 7:15 says, "...He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and CHOOSE the right..." Proverbs 3:31 says, "... Envy thou not the oppressor, and CHOOSE none of his ways." 1 Chronicles 21:11 says, "So Gad went to David and said to him, “This is what the Lord says: ‘Take your CHOICE: three years of famine, three months of being swept away before your enemies, with their swords overtaking you, or three days of the sword of the Lord..."
@@Mike-qt7jp Very good. I had to edit my post to include the fact we can't do it all on our own. Through grace, God helps us along the way. Hence the verses that indicate we're not justified by works alone. We can only do so much, but we definitely have the choice to have faith and follow Christ. He invites all and welcomes all. I'm reminded of the Prodigal Son and how joyful the father was when his son came back to the fold. God rejoices when we find our way and come to him.
@@halodisciple8459 I wouldn’t say that GRACE gives us that we are JUSTIFIED or SAVED or have FAITH by our works at all. Be careful to not allow a work from us to have anything to do with it. CHOOSING God is not even really a “work” that we can claim when in reality it is a simple REACTION OF THE HEART and MIND to the WORK GOD DOES. GOD did and does and will keep doing the WORK that CAUSES the reactions. Matters of the heart are never the result of us “willing” them to be the way they are…they just are…and we respond to them with our conscious thinking and choices then works: work still being the outward responsive effect(s) to the prior work(s) causes. Even the ATTRIBUTIVE ABILITY of limited libertarian free will of mental intellectual thinking and choosing is not from us. Yes, on some very limited level we can consider “choosing” a “responsive work alone”, but we can NEVER boast in that and we must give the real credit to whom it belongs. “Thank you God!” “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that is not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” EPH. 2:8-10 KKJV “For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that were made,…” RO. 1:20 NKJV
It is the consequence of the free will given to everyone. God loves all and wills all to be saved. But God leaves everyone free to choose Life or Death on their own will (Sirach 15:17). He does not force His will on us, and desires us to love Him freely with all our hearts, minds, soul, and strength.
Leighton and all at Soteriology 101, I just wanna thank you for all you do. Your faithfulness to the word of God has kept me personally from falling into the madness/trap of Calvinism and no doubt kept many others from following that same path. God bless you, brother.
Dr. Frank Turek said that God loves you so much that He doesn't force you to be with Him if you reject Him. What I understand out of that is that free will comes out of God's love and His sovereignty doesn't violate His attribute. God bless you Dr. Flowers
That's right, if God wanted to take our free will away he could. But he has given us the choice to choose right or wrong for our growth. At some point I gotta let my own kids make their own decisions and live their own life. They're not going to grow as people if i'm forcing them to do everything and take away their free will.
The problem here is that we can't choose what we don't want most. We always choose according to what we want and can not choose that which we don't. In our fallen nature, our heart wants sin the most, because it's our nature. Paul says we are made a prisoner by it. So until God grants a person repentance, until he regenerates them by giving us a new nature, we will never freely choose Him. Once we are given the new heart, will will only choose Him. “Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you and bring it about that you walk in My statutes, and are careful and follow My ordinances.” Ezekiel 36:25-27
@@halodisciple8459comparing human raising of kids to God shows you put yourself at the same level. We are responsible for our own actions … we however do not have the capacity for the things of God till He in mercy opens the eyes of a sinner. Why push against it? God saves sinners, we Dam ourselves through our own sin.
Right. He loves you so much He would let you choose to go to hell when you don't ubderstand what you're doing. Such love! It's too bad that God is too weak to save you and is too stupid to know how to persuade you by His Holy Spirit... seriously, wake up.
Calvinism really shows the power of systems. So many people believe things, not because scripture says it, but because their system says it. Even bright, intelligent, well-versed individuals fall victim to the emotion of maintaining the system because it’s what you feel you have to believe. I am, without question, not without fault. They are things in scripture that I frankly don’t really like, but I have to do my best to evaluate them for what they are, and arrive at conclusions that seem to be biblical, not simply driven to believe by some system which I belong to. I will try to say this with kindness, but I really hope that Calvinism disappears from the church. Besides, the fact that it appears to not be biblical, it can do real damage to individuals who don’t understand at the provision of God is truly for everyone. Leighton, you are a champion for truth.
Why did God, the Father of Jesus Christ, not provide deepness of earth [Matthew 13 :15] For the rocky ground? I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
@@robertcoupe7837 God wants all men to be saved first Timothy 2:4, second peter 3:9! God, predestines groups or plurals only, never individuals. Ephesians 1 -2 points: “ us and we” are pre-destined never “you and I“! And 11 times in 11 verses from 3-14 you have to remain “in Christ“ (in him, in whom) to be predestined! Romans 9:1-3 Paul is talking about the nation of Israel, all the way to the end of chapter 11 ! So, “Jacob, I loved, Esau I hated“ is genesis 25:23 “there are two nations in your womb“! It’s talking about ‘Nations,’ not individuals in the whole context of those three chapters! Stop taking it out of context, along with Ephesians 1! Of course, we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Esau despised his birthright ! So God truly does love all people, he truly did make hell for the devil and his angels just as Matthew 25:41 says ! Even the 42 youths, mauled by the 2 bears, was because they mocked Elijah‘s rapture, a.k.a. the resurrection , they were saying “go on up Baldy “ ; and ALL their prophets just recently Were killed by Elijah and they should’ve known to stop worshiping Baal! Bethel was the headquarters of Baal worship, where this took place! 490 priests got killed by Elijah, There was no Priests around,; should’ve been a gigantic clue. So God never arbitrarily and haphazardly deals with any human being ! His love cannot be measured says Romans 8! But if you’re a Calvinist, it’s “his love cannot be measured , (Wink, wink)“! Come out of the false belief system of Calvinism ! Now you have no excuse because you cannot out argue this, let’s hear you try! Read Matthew 25 the parable of the Calvinists, a.k.a. talents ! Where the guy buried his talent calling God,- somebody who doesn’t judge rightly & he was thrown into hell as a result! He had the wrong view of God, & So Will a Calvinist, they’ll have a callous view of God & The love of Christs sacrificial death on the cross!
@@John14Verse6 God will be faithful, but not all people will be faithful! Second, Timothy 2: 11 Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him; 12 if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us; 13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself.
Oh my goodness. I used to be a Calvinist and used to believe this garbage. I’m freeeeeee now. It all makes sense. It’s not double talk. It’s not hidden wills. It’a not determinism anymore. I’m so much more content as a Christian now I know whosoever and all and everyone mean just that. 🙌🙌🙌
@@JRey-re9rl In the full context of that scripture it’s likely that the word translated “evil” means affliction not wickedness. Read the whole chapter. Evil is anything apart from God. He did not create it. Evil exists because the ones He created seek life without Him.
God bless you Leighton ❤️🙏 ”The first to plead his case seems right, Until another comes and examines him.“ - Proverbs 18:17 You are a great blessing, you don’t know how many you are saving through God’s grace.
Hearing Piper's theological gymnastics is such a contrast to God given common sense. Call me simple-minded , fine. I love learning, which assumes my assumptions will be challenged. But Bible reading, I think, affirms a common sense understanding of who God is and how the world works, making it easy to draw near to God, not more difficult.
Amen, simple minded is supposed to be an insult, but I think the K.I.S.S. principal is anything but stupid; keep it simple, stupid 🤷 I think the scriptures definitely teach a common sense approach, and God is not the author of confusion, that's the other guy 😈
Most times simplest is best. In another place I just got involved in arguement about ' nothing ', as in definition and explanations of ' nothing ' . It's amazing how very complicated some people can make ' nothing ' to be.
I'm an ex-Calvinist of 20 years and praise God for being freed from such error. I used to follow Piper, Macarthur, and all of the other Calvinist cronies. I see now just how ridiculous Piper sounds when trying to defend his views. Piper here does what James White does 99.9% of the time when he's reaching. Piper like White, changes and meanders around the question.
So true. One definition of sin is rebellion against God. One cannot rebel against what has been determined from the foundation of the world. Even if you were determined to rebel against God!
God wants all men to be saved first Timothy 2:4, second peter 3:9! God, predestines groups or plurals only, never individuals. Ephesians 1 -2 points: “ us and we” are pre-destined never “you and I“! And 11 times in 11 verses from 3-14 you have to remain “in Christ“ (in him, in whom) to be predestined! Romans 9:1-3 Paul is talking about the nation of Israel, all the way to the end of chapter 11 ! So, “Jacob, I loved, Esau I hated“ is genesis 25:23 “there are two nations in your womb“! It’s talking about ‘Nations,’ not individuals in the whole context of those three chapters! Stop taking it out of context, along with Ephesians 1! Of course, we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Esau despised his birthright ! So God truly does love all people, he truly did make hell for the devil and his angels just as Matthew 25:41 says ! Even the 42 youths, mauled by the 2 bears, was because they mocked Elijah‘s rapture, a.k.a. the resurrection , they were saying “go on up Baldy “ ; and ALL their prophets just recently Were killed by Elijah and they should’ve known to stop worshiping Baal! Bethel was the headquarters of Baal worship, where this took place! 490 priests got killed by Elijah, There was no Priests around,; should’ve been a gigantic clue. So God never arbitrarily and haphazardly deals with any human being ! His love cannot be measured says Romans 8! But if you’re a Calvinist, it’s “his love cannot be measured , (Wink, wink)“! Come out of the false belief system of Calvinism ! Now you have no excuse because you cannot out argue this, let’s hear you try! Read Matthew 25 the parable of the Calvinists, a.k.a. talents ! Where the guy buried his talent calling God,- somebody who doesn’t judge rightly & he was thrown into hell as a result! He had the wrong view of God, & So Will a Calvinist, they’ll have a callous view of God & The love of Christs sacrificial death on the cross!
It really is sad that Christians have to debate over how salvation happens… Paul tells us to be battling the principalities and powers and you have to have the helmet of salvation. But here in America, the church has taught there are no gifts and that we just have to wrangle about what salvation is, and we can never be settled about it. Sounds like Satan at work to me. Let’s all get settled that salvation is simple belief given as a gift we can receive, and grow as we battle in the spirit, with the gifts of the spirit in the heavenly realms, to bring the kingdom here on earth, as it is in heaven. We must be battling! Warriors in salvation against evil!!
I think you forget where those principalities and powers reside/exist. I’m am pretty sure that satan does his greatest work within the church. Almost as if all these “battles”, debates, and arguments are intentional, as if there are wolves in sheep’s clothing or something!?!?!? Just ask yourself how the devil/evil one can come as an angel of light?
I remember solving math problems in a textbook where the answer was at the end of the book. Usually, when a person sees that his/her answer differs from that in the textbook, he/she thinks that he/she did something wrong in the calculations and checks them but not Calvinists. Calvinists have a problem: God wants all people to be saved but chose only some people to be saved. Some Calvinists think that something is wrong with the answer, i.e. God cannot love all people and cannot want everyone to be saved, only the chosen ones. Other Calvinists think: no, God's love and desire for everyone to be saved is too obvious in the Bible to reject it so both prepositions are correct. God wants everybody to be saved and chose some people to be saved at the same time and this is perfectly harmonious in God's mind. Why? Because we as Calvinists simply cannot be wrong in our exegesis of the Scriptures. How arrogant!
Excellent observation and i 100% agree. I truly believe that Calvinism is tied to another pit of hell subject and that's narcissism. Narcissists never accept responsibility, what's good for them is just good for them, there is no debatingvthem because 'you dont understand'. No accountability and no responsibility for what's been said or done, just blame shifting and obfuscation of the facts. It's crazy making dealing with both narcissists and calvinists. Pride provably is at the foundation of both. They're both clearly satanic as God's character is impuned.
@@ryleighloughty3307Depends on what is meant by contribute. God provides the gift of salvation. individuals receive it by faith, God then honors his Word by providing it. No automaton process called for.
Great video Leighton. Wow the mental gymnastics required to get around the obvious moral contradiction & insanity of determining for men to sin, then judging them. I'm fully aware that Calvinists reading this have smoke coming out of their ears saying "No, that's not what we believe. You don't understand." We do understand. That's why we reject Calvinism. Theologically, man being judged for being programmed vessels of wrath is the logical outworking of calvanism. There's no such thing as hyper-calvanism IMO. There's just calvanism. FYI to calvanists - True, biblical agape love extends from free choice. If we can't choose to be in relationship with God, our relationship with Him is no different than that of a robot programmed to love it's Creator.
Rom. 11:33 "Oh the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! " It is ok to not understand what is written, it is not ok to deny what is written.
Thanks, it would seem when it says God's ways are unfathomable it doesn't mean what it says. Please explain how God does all that He does so the rest of us can know. I will believe believe the bible. Thanks
I agree with you that I have not read that God causes these things to happen. I believe we should believe what is written in scripture. If it says God does something, even if we don't like it, I have to believe it. Like in Rom. 9 it says God has mercy on whom He desires and He hardens whom He desires. And their are vessels of mercy and vessels of wrath. I don't like to hear that, but I am not going to deny or try and explain it away. I believe it, because it is written in the Bible. Thanks
I'm curious to know: Can anyone come out of Calvinism and find themselves even tempted to ever go back? After having the mental gymnastics removed, after having such a clear and straightforward way to read The Bible in such a way that all of Scripture reconciles to itself, how would anyone ever *want* Calvinism? Where is its appeal? What does it have to offer?
The appeal is real. One is relieved of the tricky business of accountability. A Calvinistic friend of mine revealed a naughty habit to me and apparently saw a scandalized look on my face. He shrugs, laughs, and says, "Hey, I'm depraved." My thought: Actually you're culpable.
Just came out of it, each day I'm amazed at how reading the Bible calvinically leads to eisigetical interpretations as you are compelled to superimpose their system.
This is a very poor analogy. Is having enough love to save someone "r*pe"? If you run into a burning building and pull a person out to save them, is that equivalent to "r*pe"?
@@kevindixonmusic4835 No of course not. Geisler said FORCED love is rape. Having enough love to save someone is not rape, but FORCING your love on an unwilling person IS rape. Can you force a woman to love you and be in a relationship with you who clearly doesn't want to be? That's what Geisler was saying. And who WOULDN'T want to be pulled out of a burning building?
@@Saskinny Again this is a bad analogy - all we need to do is look at Saul/Paul on the road to Damascus. Was this a "forced love"? Or simply God revealing Himself in force -> knocking Paul to the ground and even blinding him. It took about 5 seconds (probably less) to convert Saul.
John Piper is one of the most subtile heretics on the plan of salvation when it touches human responsibility. He goes to the ultimate level of distorting the part that human responsibility plays in the salvation of the soul. Dr Flowers does a masterful job of trying to steer people away from their His error.
@h2s142 Matt 12:31-32 31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
@h2s142 you would have to show me (which you have not) that Soteriology (the doctrine of salvation) is a “secondary” doctrine. A “heresy”-in this case-is ANY teaching that goes against the teachings of the Bible that is clear and universal (applied to all) e.g. homosexuality is one of the clearly spelled out sins. To say that our loving God determines all, like we are just pawns in His solitaire game of chess, that we are puppets, that we sin because He makes us sin and holds us accountable and hell bound because we obeyed Him…is flat out HERESY. Your quotation of scripture-that you quoted to me-has no place in this argument. They are non-sequitur. This is not an area where there should be a difference of opinion or heart-unless you would also agree with the Catholics in works righteousness-hey, God did “pre-determine” that we should do good works, but does that follow that we are saved by OUR good works? No. Salvation is completely Gods work and gifted to all and for all period. Whether one accepts that gift or not is the matter of their choice. It is given, but that doesn’t mean they will keep it and honor it and not reject it. WE do the sinning. WE are responsible for that. Keep in mind, we are not talking about ordinal series of doctrinal sub levels here, so a “secondary” doctrine within the primary order is still of major importance and still has components of heretical possibilities. We are NOT talking “heresy” of blasphemy level on the primary (or first order) doctrine, but heresies can lead to blasphemy AND pile on other sins upon yourself by keeping those for whom Christ died away from Christ with your false philosophies of misinterpretation. That’s exactly what Deterministic Calvinist’s are doing-painting a false picture of God that most people would NOT even WANT to LOVE. What they are not doing is taking the ENTIRE CONTEXT of the Bible into correct account-exegesis not eisogesis. I’m still asking: why you didn’t pull the log out of your own eye before you accused the OP of his public (and proper) post with your post. P.S. according to your scripture quotation, it appears that I should sin or do good AS LONG AS WHATEVER I DO I SHOULD DO IN THE NAME OF GOD AND GIVE THANKS TO GOD FOR IT. So if I were to show up at your home and physically slap you in the face to “wake” you up…we should both just give thanks to God for my sin towards you (after all it was determined to be a good thing for you) and I can go my way having actually done no wrong? If God MAKES me sin then it is no sin because I obeyed Him AND THAT MAKES HIM THE AUTHOR OF SIN AND EVIL HIMSELF.
“As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.” (Romans 3:10-12)
Another good assessment to a significant question Leighton. The Calvinist framework leaves no room for the proper view of human willfulness and responsibility of their own sinfulness, contrasted with God's willingness to offer their rescue from it. I think Calvinism will never be able to truly represent the very real burden that is on God's heart for the sinner. A burden that we as humans can never fully understand or carry; The Lord is an eternal, immortal, infinitely powerful King at the head of His army, marching into this land of traitors to the Throne of God. His sword is drawn and every one of us is put before Him and given the ultimatum _ "confess your treason and bend the knee to the King, or face your end." We do not make the terms of peace or say we have achieved it, we merely accept or reject an offer. Those who bow, are not only forgiven but made ambassadors of His kingdom. And those who do not, meet their just end at His righteous arm, because "they are condemned already because they do not believe in the Son of God". Sadly, most say "No. You are not MY king." The Lord fashioned us all, without partiality, and justly desiring to provide His hand of peace offering to every traitor without favoritism. Knowing that they are entirely free to join in experiencing His love, or holding on to their treason. Our finite humanity cannot comprehend these thousands of years that God has seen soul after soul brought into His courtyard, put on their knees to confess, and still screaming "No!", revealing what their heart truly stored up, and being cast away at the wave of His hand and probably with a sigh of sorrow from Him. If we could feel the weight of God's heart for every single one of those individuals who willingly, freely chose to try to take on His judgement, not a single one of us could bear it. Only Jesus could bear such a weight of rejection, and He did. They reject the Master who bought them, day after day. And He still remains, offering that hand to all of humanity, in constant desire that all might be saved. The terms of peace are before us all, the Day of the Lord is at hand. Life and Death, Choose this Day. It's never too late to trust in Jesus, until it is.
Telling sinners God loves them almost never causes repentance but telling sinners they are children of wrath unless they repent almost always does. The heretical arminian gospel is that your saved from you rejection of God rather then your saved from the wrath of God. This is why so many “free will” street preachers just spew nonsense on the streets saying God loves you and you need to choose Him and nobody ever listens but when Peter preached He pierced the hearts of sinners with conviction and it wasn’t Peter who saved anyone or the believers who made a choice but God who added to there numbers.
One of my greatest struggles in the faith, is that men of God like John Piper, who clearly love the Lord, and have the gift of teaching/preaching, have the ability to be so misled in certain areas. And by extension .. knowing that we can all be misled in certain areas.
Questions: Do you pray for the salvation of others? When God responds to this prayer is it a violation of the free will of the person you're praying for? Does God force them to believe and 'drag them kicking and screaming', or does He change their hardened heart so they may respond? ...asking for a friend.
we're all closet calvinists....when we want someone saved, we don't care what it takes, we just want then saved. I've been praying for my son to be saved for some time now, and frankly I don't care if God has to drag him kicking and screaming into the Kingdom....I just want him saved. God has to open his eyes to see the beauty of the gospel message. If it were up to us, no one would be saved. Praise God He does something first......
Yep. That's where the rubber hits the road. In the end everyone should be so grateful that He saves us "while we were yet sinners, dead inour trespasses and sin."@@williamtoney2599
I believe that Jesus will complete the goal which his Father gave Him. Namely, to be the savior of the WORLD. To subject every enemy to Himself and by doing so, destroy the last enemy, death. However, this will happen in its own time, by Gods plan, each in their own order. All die in Adam in same way, all will be made alive in Christ. Where sin abounds, grace abounds MORE, not less!
@@JRey-re9rl no, in fact, the total restoration of all things was the predominant view of Christianity for the first 400-500 years. Especially among the Greek speaking believers. It’s completely scriptural !
@@JRey-re9rl I believe it was you who said “ this is all your opinion”. I was simply pointing out that it wasn’t just “my opinion”. I ended my statement by saying “it is completely scriptural”. However, I could quote 100 scriptures that support my view and it wouldn’t matter to you. You don’t believe the scriptures and think they contradict.
36:48 Leighton, "Jesus is not just the average murder"... True. If Jesus' death on the cross was not "willing" it was not the sacrifice necessary to pay the price for the sins of the world. He willingly offered himself. They did not 'take' his life he laid it down....BIG DIFFERENCE. In the Garden where Peter swings his sword at the guys head... (he missed and got his ear), brings out another important point to me. Jesus told Peter in the Garden there were many legions of angels at his immediate disposal to avoid being arrested. Matt; 26:53-54 : “53 Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and HE WILL AT ONCE send me more than twelve legions of angels? 54 How then will the Scriptures be fulfilled, which say that it must happen this way?" What I find interesting is that Jesus’ is confirming the possibility an alternative reality to what He has decided to accept. This is in direct opposition to Determinist's claims out of the mouth of Jesus himself. It's not a narrative, not a parable, not hyperbole, and it's not poetry. Jesus is saying he has a choice at that moment on that day, and he's already made it. We see Christ throughout his ministry methodically and intentionally fulfilling scripture and prophecy, he chose to do this and it was pleasing to the Father. He was willing to be obedient to the end.
Man can keep free will only as long as he is also willing to sweat blood. Matthew 26:38 I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
Firstly, it's a half quote, as per usual. This is how the Reformed and Calvinists carry out their mischief! Coming to a knowledge of the truth is the missing element! And to come to the truth you need to have a free will to accept or reject that truth! 😊
What's up with that 3-D graphic Piper has in his video of colored points connected with lines and rotating? I think it is like sugar to help swallow his convoluted medicine to explain a conundrum.
It's a visualization that whoever does his production thought would be more interesting than a static image. People do it with audio content all the time. No need to impute sinister motives.
@@JRey-re9rl There's no dilemma, it's hyperbolic. The amount is irrelevant, it's the fact that not everyone is accepted. Which means that God wants none to perish, therefore there is not one person that is not chosen to receive the gift of Jesus yet everyone has to accept Him in order to be saved/chosen.
@@MyRoBeRtBaKeR God, the Father of Jesus Christ, is universal in His provision for the seeds [Luke 8] to grow [sun and rain] but His will is for only the good ground to bring fruit to perfection [savable fruit]. “Matthew 5:45:That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
@@JRey-re9rl God, the Father of Jesus Christ, is universal in His provision for the seeds [Luke 8] to grow [sun and rain] but His will is for only the good ground to bring fruit to perfection [savable fruit]. “Matthew 5:45:That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
Dr. Flowers, the very first book you MUST read is Jacob and Esau...two nations. I happen to be Mathew Galante and you pronounced it perfectly! I know you will love that book. My icon is the front cover. Wait till you find out why I have Jesus' and the thieve's hands extended. Click on those crosses and see the truth about Lazarus and the rich man and the prodigal son parables. Matt
I agree. The only problem is that most won't listen to it to the end, but will get part-way through, and then start jabbering about all their typical non-sense objections such as "it's a works gospel", ""this guy glorifies man", "This guy doesn't understand Calvinism", etc
“As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.” (Romans 3:10-12)
I ask calvinist leaning friends one question. Does god love everyone? If they are consistent in their system, they can not honestly say that God loves everyone.
@h2s142 James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 1 Corinthians 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
@@mwcac i learned there are numerous greek words for the English words " glory, glorify, glorious" there are also many different uses for the word glory based on the context. Did you know that faithful believers with be glorified together with Christ ? All believers will receive a redeemed body, but not all believers will be glorified together with Christ. Every persons experience in the Kingdom of Heaven will not be to the same degree ! So what is your understanding of the word glorify ?
To know God is a decision involving repentance, faith, love, and hope. He rejects those that reject Him when viewed from our perspective. The sovereignty of God is a theological discussion for another time.
Leighton, I've been listening to you now for about a year. i started listening because I wanted to understand Calvinism better. The reason i wanted to underand it better was because the first time i had heard about this subject was from my Dad, didn't even know it was a thing even though I've been a believer for the past 35 years. Dad explained to me during one of our thought debates that he believed this doctrine but I've always had a problem with his ability to side step responsibility due to God making him that way, that was his rationale. That never made sense to me. So i started seeking out info on this subject and your youtube channel entered my feed. I started watching and listening and man was it painful! I kept thinking about the scripture where The Lord told the Apostles that greatest in The Kingdom were such as these little children, the Gospel is so simple a child could understand...but not with Calivinsm, if anything, it provides near endless non-sensical reasoning and illogical mysteries to get it all to work, God being schizophrenic and having 2 wills being one of them. I'm soooooo thankful for you and your ministry. I used to think about ways to be more relevant to non-believers and how to successfully persuade them toward The Lord but now I see there is a huge demand for bringing a proper argument for provisionism to maintiain the character of our holy, good God. I know of no better use of my time than learning this subject as it clearly has drawn many away from seeing God in a truthful, rightful, light. Keep swinging, good Sir, and i will keep listening and learning from you.
Why, don’t you have the mind of Christ? 1 Corinthians 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ. I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
I notice there’s a dismissal of theological differences in the argument AFTER saying the Calvinist point of view is the correct view (at least in Piper’s perspective). Whether or not it was intentional, it’s always assumed the Calvinist view is THE biblical view and then go right into the “theology doesn’t matter” so that the argument is in a “case closed” sense.
Great video. I wish I was as articulate and knowledgeable. Because I would love to be able to talk with a couple of my friends who are Calvinist and adore Piper. But I’m trying my best to focus on being the best example of Christ even though I want to go all crusade against Calvinism.
This is the dumbest possible argument. All you have to do is ask yourself, is there any circumstance in your own life when you can control an outcome, want a particular outcome, yet do not control it? Answer, yes. Obviously. There are many circumstances but especially parents do so on a constant basis. Sure, you CAN grab your child by the wrist and physically force them step by step to clean their room or do whatever it is was that you wanted, but the goal is to inculcate in them the desire to do it themselves. Even when parents apply force, that force such as spanking typically doesn't directly do the action for the child, rather it applies incentive for the child to do it themselves.
Two contradictory “wants” from God are really mess up. God wants people to obey Him, and people disobey. Exhaustive divine determinism requires God also wants people to disobey Him in this case.
Greg Boyd speaks of those who think creation is easy to understand but God p’s will is inscrutable, whereas he thinks it’s the other way around - creation is inestimably complex, but God’s will is simple to understand.
My opinion for the reason all people are not saved is…God loves you so much that he will not force you to be with him. It is your choice. He will rejoice for all who choose to be with him. He will mourn those who do not…but it is your choice… choose wisely
If it comes down to intellectually convincing people that they need Christ, why do so many people in the world die without hearing the gospel? Couldn’t God herald the gospel message audibly through thundering clouds? Or rain scrolls written in the languages of unreached people groups?
Look into ultimate reconciliation, also called universal salvation or Christian Universalism. Ultimately all people will be saved, it's just that few are aware of it now. Scripturally: God wants all to be saved Every knee bows and every tongue confesses Jesus is saviour All are made alive Good news for all Hell is not what you think it is.
The answer I got from this question from my Calvinist friend is that, God’s desire is different from God’s will. He said, God’s will is to only save some, those who will believe only in Christ.
Interesting comment. I thought reformed/Calvinist held divine simplicity in the doctrine of God? Separating Gods will and Gods desire seems to conflict with classical "doctrine of God" if God is also the limiting factor per Calvinism. Thanks for sharing!
Anytime determinists run up against the brick wall of irrationality, they simply say, God is too complex for us and we can't understand him. So then, in His letter to mankind .. he made things impossible to reconcile? I think not.
They would say it's all the elect that he wills to repentance because they claim NOTHING happens outside God's will! Even the worst pedophiles are predetermined to be that! I believe that God allows free will outside of His will! This allows God to still be God, yet not be the author of evil. He doesn't have to allow it. But His plan of salvation because of His love and patience for us to repent.
Even homosexuals are predetermined (to live 180° opposite of the way they came into the world from their parents ) and Paul, who wrote Ephesians and Romans, didn’t know about Calvinism read Romans 9:1-5 he wishes he could be cut off for the sake of Israel!
@@truthtransistorradio6716 except provisionism is wrong, because the acronym says you can never lose your salvation, and that hell is not eternal look at the provide acronym; OSAS Hebrews 6:18. ..It is impossible for god to lie. 3 verses in the Bible say your name can be blotted out of the book of life, for 3 various reasons; Psalm 69:28, revelation 3:5, 22:19! Never receiving Jesus is not the only way to go to hell Says Matthew 7:21-23 ; verse 23 ‘away from me I never knew you’ does not apply to everybody, Jesus says this twice in verses 21 and 22! “Not everyone will say to me (on that day)……., yes many will say…..” If OSAS was true he would’ve said “everyone and all” instead of “not everyone and Many”! So not everyone will go to hell based on never knowing Jesus, and other verses will back this up as well! you can no longer use Matthew 7:23 to say they were never saved to begin with! Same with 2 Peter 2 “after knowing the Lord, they went back into their vomit as a dog; or back into the mud as a pig wallowing in the mud”. The word ‘knowing’ is the same word in Matthew 7:23, it’s ‘ginosko’ in the Greek- it’s a salvific relationship with Jesus! So you can lose your salvation, says this verse as well! 2 Peter 2:20 “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning!” THEY ARE ENTANGLED IN THE CORRUPTION OF THE WORLD…AGAIN- says this verse! Jude 12 - “twice dead”; Dead in sin, born again, dead again! And there’s many more; Revelation chapters 2 & 3 are full of ultimatums and all Jesus is focused on is our works! Revelation 2: 5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place! Revelation 2:14 there are some among you….. 16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. These are just 2 and Jesus says “he who overcomes” , Overcomes is present active- future tense, and Jesus says this to all 7 churches, even the 2 good ones! You have to stay faithful to the end of your life to go to heaven! John 3:16 is he who believes, or continues to believe will have eternal life! it doesn’t say ‘believed’ past tense, you have to maintain your faith to go to heaven! The Greek word ‘believes’ is ‘Pistis’ which basically means faithfulness so faith equals faithfulness, according to the Bible! So if you have problems with this, then you have problems with the word of God, the Bible! You need to study these passages so that you can make it to heaven! If your pastor cannot answer these questions according to what I just said, then you need to leave that church!
I would love to see you answer the question leighton refuses to respond honestly to. You see, you don’t get away from the problem of evil by holding to a non-determinist view. In fact the problem gets worse. All you have to do is apply God’s attributes to any situation. We’ll use your example of a pedophile.. if he rapes a little girl, God is omniscient which means he knows about it before it even happens. He’s omnipresent which means he’s there before and during the wicked act. He’s omnipotent which means he has the power to stop it (even if you say he refuses to interfere with freewill, he could still stop the man’s heart or even make him unbearably sick before he has the chance to do it). And so it inevitably follows that He is making a conscious decision to allow this to happen since he is CHOOSING not to stop it. Now the question is what do we do with that…it appears you would rather say that it’s out of God’s hands somehow even though you’re not an open theist as far as I know. While my answer is that God has a Holy and just purpose in allowing this to happen even if we don’t know what that purpose is. The best answer a libertarian has is that he allows it solely because he gave us freewill but allowing a rape simply because you have too much respect for the rapist’s freewill is not a sufficient reason. Now I know you reject compatibilism but it’s important to note that I’m not saying God is forcing this man to commit the rape… he’s simply allowing the man to do what he wants with his own freewill according to the sinful nature he has apart from God. But without this divulging into an argument about the nature of Calvinism and compatibilism I’d like to hear your own positive explanation since it’s clear based on my example that even in your system God is making a real decision to allow that specific act of evil. Does he have a reason or not? And is it just that he loves the rapist so much and has so much respect for his freewill that he refuses to save the helpless victim? Or is God just as helpless as she is in that situation? I’m truly curious what your answer is. Thank you.
@quinnpeterson2716 I will give the same answer God gave Job. Also 2 Peter 3. Then when he did choose to wipe out a whole nation like Sodom and Gamorrah, the same who ask why he allowed evil, think He is wrong for punishing evil! I don't know why God will kill a whole nation at times, and be patient at other times. I will say this! You and I are sinners. What if God struck us dead before we ever had the chance to sin? He could have done that as well. Then I would say that God's grace is so great, that if the rapist came to repentance, he would be forgiven. I believe Jeffrey Dahmer came to faith in prison. The pain and suffering in this lifetime is insignificant compared to eternity! By the way, I disagree with most people on the punishment of hell. I believe that lost souls die in the lake of fire, and they don't feel unending torment. We have all sinned and deserve death. But the gift of God is eternal life. We are born with this sin nature, and the only way to be given a ressurected body is to believe in Jesus. Since he is the atonement for sin, without his blood, they will die in their sins.
He does desire you to know that He forgave that sin by His Son, Jesus Christ, before you committed it. I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
Analogesis 😂😂😂 this is so funny. First it was Leightonism now this😂😂 people are so funny. But anyways this video was so so good, I’m going to listen to this maybe 2 or 3 times
Leighton, I usually watch your videos on my Amazon Firestick, and I notice that many of your videos have the sound slightly out of sync with the picture. I definitely don’t see this issue with any other videos I watch. I just wanted to give you a heads-up. The difference in syncing is slight, but it’s definitely there. It seems the picture lags behind the sound.
As a Catholic I agree. Wish we could all engage in rational discussions and hear the other side. Our works are necessary for salvation. As well as many other things. Like all the things the Bible says so.
@@DJ-pq7wz Doesn't matter what I believe. What the Bible teaches and the Church has always taught is that our actions matter, both before and after any justification and that Faith and Works cannot be separated. This is NOT to say - and the Church does not teach - that we have to earn our way to Salvation - but that Sin is a real thing both before and after we come into relationship with our Lord. And that we should strive towards virtue instead of Sin - all for the glory of God, and all to bring others to know and love Him. None of it for our own boasting - all of it as humble obedience to our Creator, Sustainer and Redeemer.
No good tree produces bad fruit, and no bad tree produces good fruit. . Calvinism is a perverse doctrine. It is a foundational doctrine, which much, if not all flows. It is not some small theological point. . Those that teach it are bad trees! These are not "good" men. Let not many if you become teachers. . We, or especially myself, need to quit giving or extending false charity to these false teachers. They are wolves unless they repent. . They are destroying so many souls and corrupting the faith of so many hungry and good willed souls. . Their are eternal consequences to ideas, and if they be bad or wicked ideas, then God help us!
Yes God desires all to be saved, but there is that niggling little factor called free will. I can desire my children to grow up to be godly adults, but it is and will always be their choice to be so.
Thus saith the Lord Jesus Christ, to me, when I asked Him about free will. “None of My sheep have free will.” I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
@@robertcoupe7837 You made that up. There's no scripture that says his sheep have no free will. Nor do you have the authority to receive doctinal revelation for the rest of us.
@@halodisciple8459 I never said that it was scripture but rather a prophetic word that Jesus Christ spoke audibly to me. Thus saith the Lord Jesus Christ, to me, when I asked Him about free will. “None of My sheep have free will.” If you do not believe me, ask Him yourself. I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
I would argue that a blanket form of love and a refusal to pursue a majority of the ones you claim to love is the morbid view. Which is what universal atonement is saying. You’re saying, “I died for every single person and the only thing they have to do is become intellectually convinced that I am real and that I love them.” But if that’s true, why does God not pursue every person in the same way. If it comes down to intellectually convincing people that they need Christ, why do so many people in the world die without even hearing the gospel? Couldn’t God herald the gospel message audibly through thundering clouds? Or rain scrolls written in the languages of unreached people groups? Why doesn’t he do that?
Surely God is in control of His own mind and can make His decision to grant a creature free will causally independent from His foreknowledge of what this creature would decide to do afterwards.
When I read the scriptures I see a God who pursues a relationship with men. _Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the Lord_ -Isaiah 1:18. But when I get around Calvinists, I see a group of people that largely exhibit no relationship with the Lord. They do not talk to Him, nor do they expect to hear His voice. They barely pray, and even that out of a sense of biblical duty. Most of them do not _know_ Him. I'm not speaking of _know about Him._ I'm talking relational knowing. I know who Trump is, but I don't know him because I've never met him or spoken with him. That is what Jesus means when He rejects those who come to him at the judgement claiming to belong to Him. _‘I never knew you; depart from Me'_ - Matthew 7:23
Just so complicated. Just by acknowledging God sovereignly gave us the ability to choose Him solves the issue. Calvinism creates mutiple definitions for the same thing. Just exhausting. I literally don't understand why this doesn't make sense to others.
Brainwashing over time! Calvinists need to read the Bible chapter by chapter, until they’ve finished one book and go to the next and step out to do the great commission, not the great omission!- Matthew 28:16-20! Are you telling people about Jesus at the grocery store or walking the dog? Don’t Do the great omission!! Also, once saved always saved is not true ! OSAS Hebrews 6:18. ..It is impossible for god to lie. 3 verses in the Bible say your name can be blotted out of the book of life, for 3 various reasons; Psalm 69:28, revelation 3:5, 22:19! Never receiving Jesus is not the only way to go to hell Says Matthew 7:21-23 ; verse 23 ‘away from me I never knew you’ does not apply to everybody, Jesus says this twice in verses 21 and 22! “Not everyone will say to me (on that day)……., yes many will say…..” If OSAS was true he would’ve said “everyone and all” instead of “not everyone and Many”! So not everyone will go to hell based on never knowing Jesus, and other verses will back this up as well! you can no longer use Matthew 7:23 to say they were never saved to begin with! Same with 2 Peter 2 “after knowing the Lord, they went back into their vomit as a dog; or back into the mud as a pig wallowing in the mud”. The word ‘knowing’ is the same word in Matthew 7:23, it’s ‘ginosko’ in the Greek- it’s a salvific relationship with Jesus! So you can lose your salvation, says this verse as well! 2 Peter 2:20 “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning!” THEY ARE ENTANGLED IN THE CORRUPTION OF THE WORLD…AGAIN- says this verse! Jude 12 - “twice dead”; Dead in sin, born again, dead again! And there’s many more; Revelation chapters 2 & 3 are full of ultimatums and all Jesus is focused on is our works! Revelation 2: 5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place! Revelation 2:14 there are some among you….. 16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. These are just 2 and Jesus says “he who overcomes” , Overcomes is present active- future tense, and Jesus says this to all 7 churches, even the 2 good ones! You have to stay faithful to the end of your life to go to heaven! John 3:16 is he who believes, or continues to believe will have eternal life! it doesn’t say ‘believed’ past tense, you have to maintain your faith to go to heaven! The Greek word ‘believes’ is ‘Pistis’ which basically means faithfulness so faith equals faithfulness, according to the Bible! So if you have problems with this, then you have problems with the word of God, the Bible! You need to study these passages so that you can make it to heaven! If your pastor cannot answer these questions according to what I just said, then you need to leave that church!
Before one can understand the sovereign work of God in regeneration [born of God] one comes to see that such regeneration gives you an honest and good heart before the seed is sown. Luke 8:15 I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
@@robertcoupe7837 God wants all men to be saved first Timothy 2:4, second peter 3:9! God, predestines groups or plurals only, never individuals. Ephesians 1 -2 points: “ us and we” are pre-destined never “you and I“! And 11 times in 11 verses from 3-14 you have to remain “in Christ“ (in him, in whom) to be predestined! Romans 9:1-3 Paul is talking about the nation of Israel, all the way to the end of chapter 11 ! So, “Jacob, I loved, Esau I hated“ is genesis 25:23 “there are two nations in your womb“! It’s talking about ‘Nations,’ not individuals in the whole context of those three chapters! Stop taking it out of context, along with Ephesians 1! Of course, we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Esau despised his birthright ! So God truly does love all people, he truly did make hell for the devil and his angels just as Matthew 25:41 says ! Even the 42 youths, mauled by the 2 bears, was because they mocked Elijah‘s rapture, a.k.a. the resurrection , they were saying “go on up Baldy “ ; and ALL their prophets just recently Were killed by Elijah and they should’ve known to stop worshiping Baal! Bethel was the headquarters of Baal worship, where this took place! 490 priests got killed by Elijah, There was no Priests around,; should’ve been a gigantic clue. So God never arbitrarily and haphazardly deals with any human being ! His love cannot be measured says Romans 8! But if you’re a Calvinist, it’s “his love cannot be measured , (Wink, wink)“! Come out of the false belief system of Calvinism ! Now you have no excuse because you cannot out argue this, let’s hear you try! Read Matthew 25 the parable of the Calvinists, a.k.a. talents ! Where the guy buried his talent calling God,- somebody who doesn’t judge rightly & he was thrown into hell as a result! He had the wrong view of God, & So Will a Calvinist, they’ll have a callous view of God & The love of Christs sacrificial death on the cross!
@@robertcoupe7837 yes. One must repent and accept Christ before they are born again. Gods Grace awakens all but then all must accept Him. Pretty basic Christian theology.
So, how does Calvinism get past Gen 1 and 2? Adam and Eve are in the garden. They are face to face with almighty God and intimate with Him. Yet, through all of this perfection, they rebel against God from a state of perfection. They were not defaulted to depravity. Did they resist God? Did they reject God? Did they reject the will of God? Which of God's wills empowered or directed their sin?
47:38 RE; Lamentations 3:32-33 Piper is imposing Determinism onto the text (no surprise), BUT while it acknowledges God causes grief, it cannot be ignored WHY.... The condition of Israel in the book of Lamentations is BECAUSE of their own sin... it it God's punishment and intended to bring them back to him in repentance. And they were warned many times before it became reality for them. It was never for God's own "good pleasure" as Calvinism demands. But the Determinist must also say it was God who determined the very disobedience for which he punished them. And then just claim 'his ways are not ours' and it's toooo 'mysterious' for our finite minds to comprehend. As-if those ideas have merit... But they are only designed to make you stop questioning Calvinism.... Determinists must maintain the "tension" of which they are so fond... or abandon their doctrine... which they seem to be 'determined' not to do.🤔 There is no 'tension' regarding the nature of God in the proper context of scripture.
It’s whack; God wants all men to be saved first Timothy 2:4, second peter 3:9! God, predestines groups or plurals only, never individuals. Ephesians 1 -2 points: “ us and we” are pre-destined never “you and I“! And 11 times in 11 verses from 3-14 you have to remain “in Christ“ (in him, in whom) to be predestined! Romans 9:1-3 Paul is talking about the nation of Israel, all the way to the end of chapter 11 ! So, “Jacob, I loved, Esau I hated“ is genesis 25:23 “there are two nations in your womb“! It’s talking about ‘Nations,’ not individuals in the whole context of those three chapters! Stop taking it out of context, along with Ephesians 1! Of course, we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Esau despised his birthright ! So God truly does love all people, he truly did make hell for the devil and his angels just as Matthew 25:41 says ! Even the 42 youths, mauled by the 2 bears, was because they mocked Elijah‘s rapture, a.k.a. the resurrection , they were saying “go on up Baldy “ ; and ALL their prophets just recently Were killed by Elijah and they should’ve known to stop worshiping Baal! Bethel was the headquarters of Baal worship, where this took place! 490 priests got killed by Elijah, There was no Priests around,; should’ve been a gigantic clue. So God never arbitrarily and haphazardly deals with any human being ! His love cannot be measured says Romans 8! But if you’re a Calvinist, it’s “his love cannot be measured , (Wink, wink)“! Come out of the false belief system of Calvinism ! Now you have no excuse because you cannot out argue this, let’s hear you try! Read Matthew 25 the parable of the Calvinists, a.k.a. talents ! Where the guy buried his talent calling God,- somebody who doesn’t judge rightly & he was thrown into hell as a result! He had the wrong view of God, & So Will a Calvinist, they’ll have a callous view of God & The love of Christs sacrificial death on the cross!
Before one can understand the sovereign work of God in regeneration [born of God] one comes to see that such regeneration gives you an honest and good heart before the seed is sown. Luke 8:15 I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
@@robertcoupe7837 God wants all men to be saved first Timothy 2:4, second peter 3:9! God, predestines groups or plurals only, never individuals. Ephesians 1 -2 points: “ us and we” are pre-destined never “you and I“! And 11 times in 11 verses from 3-14 you have to remain “in Christ“ (in him, in whom) to be predestined! Romans 9:1-3 Paul is talking about the nation of Israel, all the way to the end of chapter 11 ! So, “Jacob, I loved, Esau I hated“ is genesis 25:23 “there are two nations in your womb“! It’s talking about ‘Nations,’ not individuals in the whole context of those three chapters! Stop taking it out of context, along with Ephesians 1! Of course, we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Esau despised his birthright ! So God truly does love all people, he truly did make hell for the devil and his angels just as Matthew 25:41 says ! Even the 42 youths, mauled by the 2 bears, was because they mocked Elijah‘s rapture, a.k.a. the resurrection , they were saying “go on up Baldy “ ; and ALL their prophets just recently Were killed by Elijah and they should’ve known to stop worshiping Baal! Bethel was the headquarters of Baal worship, where this took place! 490 priests got killed by Elijah, There was no Priests around,; should’ve been a gigantic clue. So God never arbitrarily and haphazardly deals with any human being ! His love cannot be measured says Romans 8! But if you’re a Calvinist, it’s “his love cannot be measured , (Wink, wink)“! Come out of the false belief system of Calvinism ! Now you have no excuse because you cannot out argue this, let’s hear you try! Read Matthew 25 the parable of the Calvinists, a.k.a. talents ! Where the guy buried his talent calling God,- somebody who doesn’t judge rightly & he was thrown into hell as a result! He had the wrong view of God, & So Will a Calvinist, they’ll have a callous view of God & The love of Christs sacrificial death on the cross!
I find it funny that at 44:14 John Piper quotes from Isaiah but misses 8 chapters from the same book that are prophecies against Hezekiah (Isaiah 28-35) because he had put his trust in Egypt’s army over God to protect Judah from an impending attack by Assyria. Then you see in chapters 36-39 that Hezekiah listens to Isaiah, putting his trust in the Lord and for the rest of Hezekiah’s reign the Assyrians never attack Judah… so that leaves 8 chapters of unfulfilled prophecy because Hezekiah makes a different decision than what was prophesied. I can’t possibly fathom making a point about determinism from this book without indirectly calling God a liar
I've always wanted to hear a calvinist explain false converts if we are unable to even desire to be with God unless he gives us the ability to desire him.
A desire for Social status, peer influence, guilt, pride, etc. just ask any Arminian that got baptized for a second time later in life and states the first religious influence was not from the heart but due to other reasons.
I started questioning John Piper when he, supposedly a prolifer, said prolifer’s were liars, naive and presumptuous who voted for Trump. I was so disgusted I started questioning everything he believes, and that would be Calvinism.
Why aren't they? He gave us all ' free will ' and most people don't WANT to be ' saved ' The Holy Spirit of God tries to talk them into it, but many still don't want it. God doesn't FORCE us.
Thus saith the Lord Jesus Christ, to me, when I asked Him about free will. “None of My sheep have free will.” I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
You're right. The Holy Spirit is too dumb to know have to persuade people, and too weak to chnge their heart, even though he's a member of the God head who created them. It's a good thing that provisionists are smart enough to do all these that God can't do!
How horrible that some believe that God "wanted" Jesus to be "murdered." “No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.” (John10:18) "I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he shall live forever; and the bread also which I shall give for the life of the world is My flesh.” (John 6:51) "I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep." (John 10:11) "We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren." (1 John 3:16) "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me." (Galatians 2:20) "And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God." (Ephesians 5:2)
@@JRey-re9rl I quoted Scripture about Jesus giving and laying down his life. What point are you trying to make that ties into the Scriptures I quoted? I want to understand you better before replying.
The thing that shook me out of calvinism was reading about Christ weeping for Jersusalem. I couldn't understand why a Potter would weep for vessels he made for the garbage.
so True!!
Yes! That and wanting to gather them like a hen gathers her chicks.
It's God, what's stopping Him?
Calvinists love to argue as if somehow God sovereignly granting free will limits God's power.
But God deeply desiring it and then turning around and decreeing that it can't be any other way would make God schizophrenic. And He "casts no shifting shadow of change."
So the two (competing) wills of God thing is totally bogus.
And there are many such instances of this bizarre behavior. For example, why does God get angry with Israel for sinning when He didn't give them the option to do otherwise?
In college I was devastated after being slaughtered by a better prepared Calvinist in a proof texting tit-for-tat. I intuitively knew Calvinism is wrong, but it seemed that the Bible gave Calvinists validation. So I went back to partying... until I saw, years later, a Calvinist confronted with Matt 23:37 - an offer of mercy extended to them which He wanted them to reject? Such a thing is a first class farce, my Savior would never be guilty of such a thing.
Well, because when God says something, we believe it.
The answer to the main question is so clear, that no one can dispute it.
Joshua 24 Verse 15 (KJV)
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Yup, Joshua 24 :15 sounds like we were given a choice. God gave us free will and we are responsible for working out our own salvation. However, we can't do it all on our own, hence the verses that say we're not justified by our works. Through God's grace, he helps us the rest of the way.
@@halodisciple8459 Yes. These are just a few of the MANY verses that speak of people making a choice; where Calvinism says, there is "No choosing" God decides. Isaiah 56:4 says, "For this is what the Lord says: “To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who CHOOSE what pleases me..." Isaiah 65:12 says, "...I spoke but you did not listen. You did evil in my sight and CHOSE what displeases me.” Isaiah 7:15 says, "...He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and CHOOSE the right..." Proverbs 3:31 says, "... Envy thou not the oppressor, and CHOOSE none of his ways." 1 Chronicles 21:11 says, "So Gad went to David and said to him, “This is what the Lord says: ‘Take your CHOICE: three years of famine, three months of being swept away before your enemies, with their swords overtaking you, or three days of the sword of the Lord..."
@@Mike-qt7jp Very good. I had to edit my post to include the fact we can't do it all on our own. Through grace, God helps us along the way. Hence the verses that indicate we're not justified by works alone. We can only do so much, but we definitely have the choice to have faith and follow Christ. He invites all and welcomes all. I'm reminded of the Prodigal Son and how joyful the father was when his son came back to the fold. God rejoices when we find our way and come to him.
@@halodisciple8459 I wouldn’t say that GRACE gives us that we are JUSTIFIED or SAVED or have FAITH by our works at all. Be careful to not allow a work from us to have anything to do with it. CHOOSING God is not even really a “work” that we can claim when in reality it is a simple REACTION OF THE HEART and MIND to the WORK GOD DOES. GOD did and does and will keep doing the WORK that CAUSES the reactions. Matters of the heart are never the result of us “willing” them to be the way they are…they just are…and we respond to them with our conscious thinking and choices then works: work still being the outward responsive effect(s) to the prior work(s) causes. Even the ATTRIBUTIVE ABILITY of limited libertarian free will of mental intellectual thinking and choosing is not from us. Yes, on some very limited level we can consider “choosing” a “responsive work alone”, but we can NEVER boast in that and we must give the real credit to whom it belongs. “Thank you God!”
“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that is not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” EPH. 2:8-10 KKJV
“For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that were made,…” RO. 1:20 NKJV
It is the consequence of the free will given to everyone. God loves all and wills all to be saved. But God leaves everyone free to choose Life or Death on their own will (Sirach 15:17). He does not force His will on us, and desires us to love Him freely with all our hearts, minds, soul, and strength.
Leighton and all at Soteriology 101, I just wanna thank you for all you do. Your faithfulness to the word of God has kept me personally from falling into the madness/trap of Calvinism and no doubt kept many others from following that same path. God bless you, brother.
Amen brother
Amen I’ve learned so much about Calvinist with Flowers.
Dr. Frank Turek said that God loves you so much that He doesn't force you to be with Him if you reject Him. What I understand out of that is that free will comes out of God's love and His sovereignty doesn't violate His attribute. God bless you Dr. Flowers
That's right, if God wanted to take our free will away he could. But he has given us the choice to choose right or wrong for our growth. At some point I gotta let my own kids make their own decisions and live their own life. They're not going to grow as people if i'm forcing them to do everything and take away their free will.
@@halodisciple8459and they certainly won’t love you if you force them in that either.
The problem here is that we can't choose what we don't want most. We always choose according to what we want and can not choose that which we don't. In our fallen nature, our heart wants sin the most, because it's our nature. Paul says we are made a prisoner by it. So until God grants a person repentance, until he regenerates them by giving us a new nature, we will never freely choose Him. Once we are given the new heart, will will only choose Him.
“Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you and bring it about that you walk in My statutes, and are careful and follow My ordinances.”
Ezekiel 36:25-27
@@halodisciple8459comparing human raising of kids to God shows you put yourself at the same level. We are responsible for our own actions … we however do not have the capacity for the things of God till He in mercy opens the eyes of a sinner. Why push against it?
God saves sinners, we Dam ourselves through our own sin.
Right. He loves you so much He would let you choose to go to hell when you don't ubderstand what you're doing. Such love! It's too bad that God is too weak to save you and is too stupid to know how to persuade you by His Holy Spirit... seriously, wake up.
Thank you Leighton for articulating this so lucidly and candidly!
Thank you, Leighton. Praise God for the clarity of truth and renewing our minds and His persistence with the body.
Each in theor own order: 1 Corinthians 15:20-28.
*Their*
@1:04:38 - - ...the fireman that rescues people from the fire he started... wow.
Thanks!
thank you for your clarity, I was a devoted listener to piper. I don't wish him ill, I just have lost trust in pastors with a huge following.
I don't trust proponents of Calvinism. No hate, just pray they'll leave it. I will be pointing them to Soteriology 101 !
Bingo!
Calvinism really shows the power of systems. So many people believe things, not because scripture says it, but because their system says it. Even bright, intelligent, well-versed individuals fall victim to the emotion of maintaining the system because it’s what you feel you have to believe. I am, without question, not without fault. They are things in scripture that I frankly don’t really like, but I have to do my best to evaluate them for what they are, and arrive at conclusions that seem to be biblical, not simply driven to believe by some system which I belong to.
I will try to say this with kindness, but I really hope that Calvinism disappears from the church. Besides, the fact that it appears to not be biblical, it can do real damage to individuals who don’t understand at the provision of God is truly for everyone.
Leighton, you are a champion for truth.
also, they don’t get attacked by the devil when they’re stuck in Calvinism, I was that way 33 years ago and lived it and suffered for it!
Why did God, the Father of Jesus Christ, not provide deepness of earth [Matthew 13 :15]
For the rocky ground?
I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
@@robertcoupe7837 God wants all men to be saved first Timothy 2:4, second peter 3:9!
God, predestines groups or plurals only, never individuals. Ephesians 1 -2 points: “ us and we” are pre-destined never “you and I“! And 11 times in 11 verses from 3-14 you have to remain “in Christ“ (in him, in whom) to be predestined!
Romans 9:1-3 Paul is talking about the nation of Israel, all the way to the end of chapter 11 ! So, “Jacob, I loved, Esau I hated“ is genesis 25:23 “there are two nations in your womb“! It’s talking about ‘Nations,’ not individuals in the whole context of those three chapters! Stop taking it out of context, along with Ephesians 1!
Of course, we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Esau despised his birthright !
So God truly does love all people, he truly did make hell for the devil and his angels just as Matthew 25:41 says !
Even the 42 youths, mauled by the 2 bears, was because they mocked Elijah‘s rapture, a.k.a. the resurrection , they were saying “go on up Baldy “ ; and ALL their prophets just recently Were killed by Elijah and they should’ve known to stop worshiping Baal! Bethel was the headquarters of Baal worship, where this took place! 490 priests got killed by Elijah, There was no Priests around,; should’ve been a gigantic clue.
So God never arbitrarily and haphazardly deals with any human being ! His love cannot be measured says Romans 8!
But if you’re a Calvinist, it’s “his love cannot be measured , (Wink, wink)“!
Come out of the false belief system of Calvinism ! Now you have no excuse because you cannot out argue this, let’s hear you try!
Read Matthew 25 the parable of the Calvinists, a.k.a. talents ! Where the guy buried his talent calling God,- somebody who doesn’t judge rightly & he was thrown into hell as a result! He had the wrong view of God, & So Will a Calvinist, they’ll have a callous view of God & The love of Christs sacrificial death on the cross!
“Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:” (Philippians 1:6)
@@John14Verse6 God will be faithful, but not all people will be faithful! Second, Timothy 2: 11 Here is a trustworthy saying:
If we died with him,
we will also live with him;
12 if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us;
13 if we are faithless,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot disown himself.
Oh my goodness. I used to be a Calvinist and used to believe this garbage. I’m freeeeeee now. It all makes sense. It’s not double talk. It’s not hidden wills. It’a not determinism anymore. I’m so much more content as a Christian now I know whosoever and all and everyone mean just that. 🙌🙌🙌
@@JRey-re9rlWhy do you believe evil exists?
@@JRey-re9rl In the full context of that scripture it’s likely that the word translated “evil” means affliction not wickedness. Read the whole chapter. Evil is anything apart from God. He did not create it. Evil exists because the ones He created seek life without Him.
God bless you Leighton ❤️🙏 ”The first to plead his case seems right, Until another comes and examines him.“ -
Proverbs 18:17
You are a great blessing, you don’t know how many you are saving through God’s grace.
Hearing Piper's theological gymnastics is such a contrast to God given common sense. Call me simple-minded , fine. I love learning, which assumes my assumptions will be challenged. But Bible reading, I think, affirms a common sense understanding of who God is and how the world works, making it easy to draw near to God, not more difficult.
Amen, simple minded is supposed to be an insult, but I think the K.I.S.S. principal is anything but stupid; keep it simple, stupid 🤷
I think the scriptures definitely teach a common sense approach, and God is not the author of confusion, that's the other guy 😈
I can’t listen to Piper … although he was the preacher I followed in the past. 😞
Well said!
Most times simplest is best.
In another place I just got involved in arguement about ' nothing ', as in definition and explanations of
' nothing ' . It's amazing how very complicated some people can make
' nothing ' to be.
Didn’t scripture say we had to come as “little children?”
My Brother Leighton I pray God will continue to use you to help evangelize the Calvinist insanity ; thalassemia grasped the minds of so many ,
Wow you were on fire with truth today!! Amazing….. you brought it for sure!!👍 Thank you 🙏
I'm an ex-Calvinist of 20 years and praise God for being freed from such error. I used to follow Piper, Macarthur, and all of the other Calvinist cronies. I see now just how ridiculous Piper sounds when trying to defend his views. Piper here does what James White does 99.9% of the time when he's reaching. Piper like White, changes and meanders around the question.
I have watched many of your videos but this one excels. Its clarity and simplicity with your humble tone is amazing. Keep such a great work!
I like Tommy's Truth Talk as well.
If exhaustive divine determinism is true...then there is no such thing as "Sin".
There’s no such thing as rules or order, and God is a God of order; which would be contrary to Calvinism!
So true. One definition of sin is rebellion against God. One cannot rebel against what has been determined from the foundation of the world. Even if you were determined to rebel against God!
@@blackwater642 Not true
God wants all men to be saved first Timothy 2:4, second peter 3:9!
God, predestines groups or plurals only, never individuals. Ephesians 1 -2 points: “ us and we” are pre-destined never “you and I“! And 11 times in 11 verses from 3-14 you have to remain “in Christ“ (in him, in whom) to be predestined!
Romans 9:1-3 Paul is talking about the nation of Israel, all the way to the end of chapter 11 ! So, “Jacob, I loved, Esau I hated“ is genesis 25:23 “there are two nations in your womb“! It’s talking about ‘Nations,’ not individuals in the whole context of those three chapters! Stop taking it out of context, along with Ephesians 1!
Of course, we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Esau despised his birthright !
So God truly does love all people, he truly did make hell for the devil and his angels just as Matthew 25:41 says !
Even the 42 youths, mauled by the 2 bears, was because they mocked Elijah‘s rapture, a.k.a. the resurrection , they were saying “go on up Baldy “ ; and ALL their prophets just recently Were killed by Elijah and they should’ve known to stop worshiping Baal! Bethel was the headquarters of Baal worship, where this took place! 490 priests got killed by Elijah, There was no Priests around,; should’ve been a gigantic clue.
So God never arbitrarily and haphazardly deals with any human being ! His love cannot be measured says Romans 8!
But if you’re a Calvinist, it’s “his love cannot be measured , (Wink, wink)“!
Come out of the false belief system of Calvinism ! Now you have no excuse because you cannot out argue this, let’s hear you try!
Read Matthew 25 the parable of the Calvinists, a.k.a. talents ! Where the guy buried his talent calling God,- somebody who doesn’t judge rightly & he was thrown into hell as a result! He had the wrong view of God, & So Will a Calvinist, they’ll have a callous view of God & The love of Christs sacrificial death on the cross!
That is so dumb it's not even wrong.
Thank you.
It really is sad that Christians have to debate over how salvation happens… Paul tells us to be battling the principalities and powers and you have to have the helmet of salvation. But here in America, the church has taught there are no gifts and that we just have to wrangle about what salvation is, and we can never be settled about it. Sounds like Satan at work to me. Let’s all get settled that salvation is simple belief given as a gift we can receive, and grow as we battle in the spirit, with the gifts of the spirit in the heavenly realms, to bring the kingdom here on earth, as it is in heaven. We must be battling! Warriors in salvation against evil!!
I think you forget where those principalities and powers reside/exist.
I’m am pretty sure that satan does his greatest work within the church. Almost as if all these “battles”, debates, and arguments are intentional, as if there are wolves in sheep’s clothing or something!?!?!?
Just ask yourself how the devil/evil one can come as an angel of light?
I remember solving math problems in a textbook where the answer was at the end of the book. Usually, when a person sees that his/her answer differs from that in the textbook, he/she thinks that he/she did something wrong in the calculations and checks them but not Calvinists. Calvinists have a problem: God wants all people to be saved but chose only some people to be saved. Some Calvinists think that something is wrong with the answer, i.e. God cannot love all people and cannot want everyone to be saved, only the chosen ones. Other Calvinists think: no, God's love and desire for everyone to be saved is too obvious in the Bible to reject it so both prepositions are correct. God wants everybody to be saved and chose some people to be saved at the same time and this is perfectly harmonious in God's mind. Why? Because we as Calvinists simply cannot be wrong in our exegesis of the Scriptures. How arrogant!
Excellent observation and i 100% agree. I truly believe that Calvinism is tied to another pit of hell subject and that's narcissism. Narcissists never accept responsibility, what's good for them is just good for them, there is no debatingvthem because 'you dont understand'. No accountability and no responsibility for what's been said or done, just blame shifting and obfuscation of the facts. It's crazy making dealing with both narcissists and calvinists. Pride provably is at the foundation of both. They're both clearly satanic as God's character is impuned.
Believing that sinful human beings can contribute to their own salvation makes us like God.
@@ryleighloughty3307Depends on what is meant by contribute. God provides the gift of salvation. individuals receive it by faith, God then honors his Word by providing it.
No automaton process called for.
Great video Leighton. Wow the mental gymnastics required to get around the obvious moral contradiction & insanity of determining for men to sin, then judging them. I'm fully aware that Calvinists reading this have smoke coming out of their ears saying "No, that's not what we believe. You don't understand." We do understand. That's why we reject Calvinism. Theologically, man being judged for being programmed vessels of wrath is the logical outworking of calvanism. There's no such thing as hyper-calvanism IMO. There's just calvanism.
FYI to calvanists - True, biblical agape love extends from free choice. If we can't choose to be in relationship with God, our relationship with Him is no different than that of a robot programmed to love it's Creator.
Rom. 11:33 "Oh the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! " It is ok to not understand what is written, it is not ok to deny what is written.
That's the laziest argument I've ever heard.
Thanks, it would seem when it says God's ways are unfathomable it doesn't mean what it says. Please explain how God does all that He does so the rest of us can know. I will believe believe the bible. Thanks
But you must agree that it is blasphemy to declare that God causes all child molestation and all war, murder and rape -such as John Piper preaches.
I agree with you that I have not read that God causes these things to happen. I believe we should believe what is written in scripture. If it says God does something, even if we don't like it, I have to believe it. Like in Rom. 9 it says God has mercy on whom He desires and He hardens whom He desires. And their are vessels of mercy and vessels of wrath. I don't like to hear that, but I am not going to deny or try and explain it away. I believe it, because it is written in the Bible. Thanks
Amen we are created with free will
I'm curious to know: Can anyone come out of Calvinism and find themselves even tempted to ever go back?
After having the mental gymnastics removed, after having such a clear and straightforward way to read The Bible in such a way that all of Scripture reconciles to itself, how would anyone ever *want* Calvinism? Where is its appeal? What does it have to offer?
The appeal is real. One is relieved of the tricky business of accountability. A Calvinistic friend of mine revealed a naughty habit to me and apparently saw a scandalized look on my face. He shrugs, laughs, and says, "Hey, I'm depraved." My thought: Actually you're culpable.
I notice the ones that desperately hold to it display a lot of narcissistic traits.
Just came out of it, each day I'm amazed at how reading the Bible calvinically leads to eisigetical interpretations as you are compelled to superimpose their system.
100% of Calvinists are convinced that they are the Elect and their salvation lottery ticket is guaranteed. That can be a powerful psychological drug.
@donatist59 That's a very good point!
Norman Geisler said it best..."God is a gentleman and He does not force Himself on anybody. Forced love is rape." Rather clearly and succinctly put!
This is a very poor analogy.
Is having enough love to save someone "r*pe"?
If you run into a burning building and pull a person out to save them, is that equivalent to "r*pe"?
@@kevindixonmusic4835 No of course not. Geisler said FORCED love is rape. Having enough love to save someone is not rape, but FORCING your love on an unwilling person IS rape. Can you force a woman to love you and be in a relationship with you who clearly doesn't want to be? That's what Geisler was saying. And who WOULDN'T want to be pulled out of a burning building?
@@Saskinny Again this is a bad analogy - all we need to do is look at Saul/Paul on the road to Damascus.
Was this a "forced love"? Or simply God revealing Himself in force -> knocking Paul to the ground and even blinding him. It took about 5 seconds (probably less) to convert Saul.
@@kevindixonmusic4835 Any analogy that is used to support the heretical doctrine of Calvinism, I dismiss. Be well.
Ok, but people say that the threat of hell is indeed forcing love. Love me or else suffer forever!
John Piper is one of the most subtile heretics on the plan of salvation when it touches human responsibility. He goes to the ultimate level of distorting the part that human responsibility plays in the salvation of the soul. Dr Flowers does a masterful job of trying to steer people away from their His error.
I concur with you brother. And if you are wrong, it is because God determined you to be wrong before the foundation of the world.
@h2s142 Matt 12:31-32
31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
@h2s142 Using the BIBLE to question someone's false doctrine is NOT slander.
@h2s142does Piper PUBLICLY PUBLICIZE his false doctrine? Then here you have a public response…
Did YOU do what you posted to the OP?
@h2s142 you would have to show me (which you have not) that Soteriology (the doctrine of salvation) is a “secondary” doctrine. A “heresy”-in this case-is ANY teaching that goes against the teachings of the Bible that is clear and universal (applied to all) e.g. homosexuality is one of the clearly spelled out sins. To say that our loving God determines all, like we are just pawns in His solitaire game of chess, that we are puppets, that we sin because He makes us sin and holds us accountable and hell bound because we obeyed Him…is flat out HERESY.
Your quotation of scripture-that you quoted to me-has no place in this argument. They are non-sequitur. This is not an area where there should be a difference of opinion or heart-unless you would also agree with the Catholics in works righteousness-hey, God did “pre-determine” that we should do good works, but does that follow that we are saved by OUR good works? No. Salvation is completely Gods work and gifted to all and for all period. Whether one accepts that gift or not is the matter of their choice. It is given, but that doesn’t mean they will keep it and honor it and not reject it. WE do the sinning. WE are responsible for that.
Keep in mind, we are not talking about ordinal series of doctrinal sub levels here, so a “secondary” doctrine within the primary order is still of major importance and still has components of heretical possibilities. We are NOT talking “heresy” of blasphemy level on the primary (or first order) doctrine, but heresies can lead to blasphemy AND pile on other sins upon yourself by keeping those for whom Christ died away from Christ with your false philosophies of misinterpretation. That’s exactly what Deterministic Calvinist’s are doing-painting a false picture of God that most people would NOT even WANT to LOVE. What they are not doing is taking the ENTIRE CONTEXT of the Bible into correct account-exegesis not eisogesis.
I’m still asking: why you didn’t pull the log out of your own eye before you accused the OP of his public (and proper) post with your post.
P.S. according to your scripture quotation, it appears that I should sin or do good AS LONG AS WHATEVER I DO I SHOULD DO IN THE NAME OF GOD AND GIVE THANKS TO GOD FOR IT. So if I were to show up at your home and physically slap you in the face to “wake” you up…we should both just give thanks to God for my sin towards you (after all it was determined to be a good thing for you) and I can go my way having actually done no wrong? If God MAKES me sin then it is no sin because I obeyed Him AND THAT MAKES HIM THE AUTHOR OF SIN AND EVIL HIMSELF.
I loved you showed CS Lewis . Could you give more examples Of Provisionist mr flowers
Grace and faith.
Grace, God has done His part.
Faith, our response to God's grace.
If we don't respond, we don't receive.
Simple.
“As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.” (Romans 3:10-12)
Another good assessment to a significant question Leighton.
The Calvinist framework leaves no room for the proper view of human willfulness and responsibility of their own sinfulness, contrasted with God's willingness to offer their rescue from it.
I think Calvinism will never be able to truly represent the very real burden that is on God's heart for the sinner.
A burden that we as humans can never fully understand or carry;
The Lord is an eternal, immortal, infinitely powerful King at the head of His army, marching into this land of traitors to the Throne of God.
His sword is drawn and every one of us is put before Him and given the ultimatum _ "confess your treason and bend the knee to the King, or face your end."
We do not make the terms of peace or say we have achieved it, we merely accept or reject an offer.
Those who bow, are not only forgiven but made ambassadors of His kingdom.
And those who do not, meet their just end at His righteous arm, because "they are condemned already because they do not believe in the Son of God".
Sadly, most say "No. You are not MY king."
The Lord fashioned us all, without partiality, and justly desiring to provide His hand of peace offering to every traitor without favoritism.
Knowing that they are entirely free to join in experiencing His love, or holding on to their treason.
Our finite humanity cannot comprehend these thousands of years that God has seen soul after soul brought into His courtyard, put on their knees to confess, and still screaming "No!", revealing what their heart truly stored up, and being cast away at the wave of His hand and probably with a sigh of sorrow from Him.
If we could feel the weight of God's heart for every single one of those individuals who willingly, freely chose to try to take on His judgement, not a single one of us could bear it.
Only Jesus could bear such a weight of rejection, and He did.
They reject the Master who bought them, day after day.
And He still remains, offering that hand to all of humanity, in constant desire that all might be saved.
The terms of peace are before us all, the Day of the Lord is at hand.
Life and Death, Choose this Day.
It's never too late to trust in Jesus, until it is.
Telling sinners God loves them almost never causes repentance but telling sinners they are children of wrath unless they repent almost always does. The heretical arminian gospel is that your saved from you rejection of God rather then your saved from the wrath of God. This is why so many “free will” street preachers just spew nonsense on the streets saying God loves you and you need to choose Him and nobody ever listens but when Peter preached He pierced the hearts of sinners with conviction and it wasn’t Peter who saved anyone or the believers who made a choice but God who added to there numbers.
Outstanding. Another thing in scripture I look at that adds to the case against Calvinism is the parable of the prodigal son. Luke 15:11-32
He desires for all of his people to be saved, and they all will be.
One of my greatest struggles in the faith, is that men of God like John Piper, who clearly love the Lord, and have the gift of teaching/preaching, have the ability to be so misled in certain areas. And by extension .. knowing that we can all be misled in certain areas.
He doesn't know the Lord
Questions: Do you pray for the salvation of others? When God responds to this prayer is it a violation of the free will of the person you're praying for? Does God force them to believe and 'drag them kicking and screaming', or does He change their hardened heart so they may respond? ...asking for a friend.
we're all closet calvinists....when we want someone saved, we don't care what it takes, we just want then saved. I've been praying for my son to be saved for some time now, and frankly I don't care if God has to drag him kicking and screaming into the Kingdom....I just want him saved. God has to open his eyes to see the beauty of the gospel message. If it were up to us, no one would be saved. Praise God He does something first......
Yep. That's where the rubber hits the road. In the end everyone should be so grateful that He saves us "while we were yet sinners, dead inour trespasses and sin."@@williamtoney2599
I believe that Jesus will complete the goal which his Father gave Him. Namely, to be the savior of the WORLD. To subject every enemy to Himself and by doing so, destroy the last enemy, death. However, this will happen in its own time, by Gods plan, each in their own order. All die in Adam in same way, all will be made alive in Christ. Where sin abounds, grace abounds MORE, not less!
@@JRey-re9rl no, in fact, the total restoration of all things was the predominant view of Christianity for the first 400-500 years. Especially among the Greek speaking believers. It’s completely scriptural !
@@JRey-re9rl I believe it was you who said “ this is all your opinion”. I was simply pointing out that it wasn’t just “my opinion”. I ended my statement by saying “it is completely scriptural”. However, I could quote 100 scriptures that support my view and it wouldn’t matter to you. You don’t believe the scriptures and think they contradict.
36:48 Leighton, "Jesus is not just the average murder"... True. If Jesus' death on the cross was not "willing" it was not the sacrifice necessary to pay the price for the sins of the world. He willingly offered himself. They did not 'take' his life he laid it down....BIG DIFFERENCE.
In the Garden where Peter swings his sword at the guys head... (he missed and got his ear), brings out another important point to me. Jesus told Peter in the Garden there were many legions of angels at his immediate disposal to avoid being arrested.
Matt; 26:53-54 :
“53 Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and HE WILL AT ONCE send me more than twelve legions of angels? 54 How then will the Scriptures be fulfilled, which say that it must happen this way?"
What I find interesting is that Jesus’ is confirming the possibility an alternative reality to what He has decided to accept. This is in direct opposition to Determinist's claims out of the mouth of Jesus himself. It's not a narrative, not a parable, not hyperbole, and it's not poetry. Jesus is saying he has a choice at that moment on that day, and he's already made it. We see Christ throughout his ministry methodically and intentionally fulfilling scripture and prophecy, he chose to do this and it was pleasing to the Father. He was willing to be obedient to the end.
Man can keep free will only as long as he is also willing to sweat blood. Matthew 26:38
I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
Your argument is based in Jesus …. We are not Jesus.
@@dfischer5878 And apparently you are not “in Him” either.
I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
Firstly, it's a half quote, as per usual. This is how the Reformed and Calvinists carry out their mischief! Coming to a knowledge of the truth is the missing element! And to come to the truth you need to have a free will to accept or reject that truth! 😊
This podcast was predetermined to exist.
What's up with that 3-D graphic Piper has in his video of colored points connected with lines and rotating? I think it is like sugar to help swallow his convoluted medicine to explain a conundrum.
He's trying to hypnotize his audience. 🙂
It's a visualization that whoever does his production thought would be more interesting than a static image. People do it with audio content all the time. No need to impute sinister motives.
Excellent! Thank you for sharing!
They say that everyone that is elected is already preselected yet Scripture tells us that many are called but few are chosen.
@@JRey-re9rl There's no dilemma, it's hyperbolic.
The amount is irrelevant, it's the fact that not everyone is accepted. Which means that God wants none to perish, therefore there is not one person that is not chosen to receive the gift of Jesus yet everyone has to accept Him in order to be saved/chosen.
@@JRey-re9rl Or you have an obvious inability to discern Scriptures!
Let those who see our interpretations decide in their own minds.
@@MyRoBeRtBaKeR God, the Father of Jesus Christ, is universal in His provision for the seeds [Luke 8] to grow [sun and rain] but His will is for only the good ground to bring fruit to perfection [savable fruit].
“Matthew 5:45:That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
@@JRey-re9rl God, the Father of Jesus Christ, is universal in His provision for the seeds [Luke 8] to grow [sun and rain] but His will is for only the good ground to bring fruit to perfection [savable fruit].
“Matthew 5:45:That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
@@JRey-re9rl few. no.
I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
Dr. Flowers, the very first book you MUST read is Jacob and Esau...two nations. I happen to be Mathew Galante and you pronounced it perfectly! I know you will love that book. My icon is the front cover. Wait till you find out why I have Jesus' and the thieve's hands extended. Click on those crosses and see the truth about Lazarus and the rich man and the prodigal son parables.
Matt
This is a very good video for Calvinists, if they watch it, they will find what's really wrong with Calvinism.😊
I agree. The only problem is that most won't listen to it to the end, but will get part-way through, and then start jabbering about all their typical non-sense objections such as "it's a works gospel", ""this guy glorifies man", "This guy doesn't understand Calvinism", etc
@@ddascola01 sad but true, if they listened to reason they wouldn't be Calvinists in the first place, at least not for very long 🤷
“As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.” (Romans 3:10-12)
I ask calvinist leaning friends one question. Does god love everyone? If they are consistent in their system, they can not honestly say that God loves everyone.
Excellent question to flush out their insanity
I love how you interpret scripture. I just started listening to Truth with Sue. I would love to hear you do an interview with her.
May try Tommy's Truth Talk as well.
This is a basic fundamental doctrine. If one can't get this right, then how can one begin to understand God’s nature
@h2s142 The Holy Spirit, and lots of time spent letting scripture interpret scripture.
@h2s142 James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
1 Corinthians 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
The chief end of man is not to glorify God. The chief end of man is to love God !
Yet scripture says clearly God will not share His glory with anyone.
Ive been doing an in depth study of 2 Cor chapter 2 and also of the word " glory".... pretty interesting chapter
Sorry, i mean chapter 3
You don't what glorify means.
@@mwcac i learned there are numerous greek words for the English words " glory, glorify, glorious" there are also many different uses for the word glory based on the context. Did you know that faithful believers with be glorified together with Christ ? All believers will receive a redeemed body, but not all believers will be glorified together with Christ. Every persons experience in the Kingdom of Heaven will not be to the same degree ! So what is your understanding of the word glorify ?
Because it's not man who is subject to fate in the Calvinist system...its God.
There are people that don't believe they are sinners.
The teacher analogy is spot on, Leighton!
I must have missed that. Do you know approximately where in the video it was said? Thank you
@@timaginations3769 in the 26 minute mark
To know God is a decision involving repentance, faith, love, and hope. He rejects those that reject Him when viewed from our perspective. The sovereignty of God is a theological discussion for another time.
@1:07:50 Wow!
Leighton, I've been listening to you now for about a year. i started listening because I wanted to understand Calvinism better. The reason i wanted to underand it better was because the first time i had heard about this subject was from my Dad, didn't even know it was a thing even though I've been a believer for the past 35 years. Dad explained to me during one of our thought debates that he believed this doctrine but I've always had a problem with his ability to side step responsibility due to God making him that way, that was his rationale. That never made sense to me. So i started seeking out info on this subject and your youtube channel entered my feed. I started watching and listening and man was it painful! I kept thinking about the scripture where The Lord told the Apostles that greatest in The Kingdom were such as these little children, the Gospel is so simple a child could understand...but not with Calivinsm, if anything, it provides near endless non-sensical reasoning and illogical mysteries to get it all to work, God being schizophrenic and having 2 wills being one of them. I'm soooooo thankful for you and your ministry. I used to think about ways to be more relevant to non-believers and how to successfully persuade them toward The Lord but now I see there is a huge demand for bringing a proper argument for provisionism to maintiain the character of our holy, good God. I know of no better use of my time than learning this subject as it clearly has drawn many away from seeing God in a truthful, rightful, light. Keep swinging, good Sir, and i will keep listening and learning from you.
Incredible how Piper claims to know exactly what God had in mind. Must be nice to be able to speak for God.
Why, don’t you have the mind of Christ?
1 Corinthians 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
I notice there’s a dismissal of theological differences in the argument AFTER saying the Calvinist point of view is the correct view (at least in Piper’s perspective). Whether or not it was intentional, it’s always assumed the Calvinist view is THE biblical view and then go right into the “theology doesn’t matter” so that the argument is in a “case closed” sense.
Freewill.
I totally agree that Calvanism totally misrepresents the character of God and only gives people a reason to not want anything to do with Him.
Calvinism accurately portrays God's character. Sadly, prideful humans do not like this truth.
Great video. I wish I was as articulate and knowledgeable. Because I would love to be able to talk with a couple of my friends who are Calvinist and adore Piper. But I’m trying my best to focus on being the best example of Christ even though I want to go all crusade against Calvinism.
These videos are so difficult to watch with commercials every five minutes..literally😢
Because it is up to us to decide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is simple because of unbelief.
This is the dumbest possible argument.
All you have to do is ask yourself, is there any circumstance in your own life when you can control an outcome, want a particular outcome, yet do not control it?
Answer, yes. Obviously. There are many circumstances but especially parents do so on a constant basis. Sure, you CAN grab your child by the wrist and physically force them step by step to clean their room or do whatever it is was that you wanted, but the goal is to inculcate in them the desire to do it themselves. Even when parents apply force, that force such as spanking typically doesn't directly do the action for the child, rather it applies incentive for the child to do it themselves.
We have become seekers of ourselves. Our will has become bent. We only will make the right choice through the work of the Holy Spirit.
This is Biblically sound.
Two contradictory “wants” from God are really mess up. God wants people to obey Him, and people disobey. Exhaustive divine determinism requires God also wants people to disobey Him in this case.
It's just a mystery!
But God did say he wasn't the author of confusion....
It's just too mysterious, obviously.
Greg Boyd speaks of those who think creation is easy to understand but God p’s will is inscrutable, whereas he thinks it’s the other way around - creation is inestimably complex, but God’s will is simple to understand.
My opinion for the reason all people are not saved is…God loves you so much that he will not force you to be with him. It is your choice. He will rejoice for all who choose to be with him. He will mourn those who do not…but it is your choice… choose wisely
If it comes down to intellectually convincing people that they need Christ, why do so many people in the world die without hearing the gospel? Couldn’t God herald the gospel message audibly through thundering clouds? Or rain scrolls written in the languages of unreached people groups?
Look into ultimate reconciliation, also called universal salvation or Christian Universalism.
Ultimately all people will be saved, it's just that few are aware of it now.
Scripturally:
God wants all to be saved
Every knee bows and every tongue confesses Jesus is saviour
All are made alive
Good news for all
Hell is not what you think it is.
The answer I got from this question from my Calvinist friend is that, God’s desire is different from God’s will. He said, God’s will is to only save some, those who will believe only in Christ.
Interesting comment. I thought reformed/Calvinist held divine simplicity in the doctrine of God? Separating Gods will and Gods desire seems to conflict with classical "doctrine of God" if God is also the limiting factor per Calvinism. Thanks for sharing!
Anytime determinists run up against the brick wall of irrationality, they simply say, God is too complex for us and we can't understand him. So then, in His letter to mankind .. he made things impossible to reconcile? I think not.
They would say it's all the elect that he wills to repentance because they claim NOTHING happens outside God's will! Even the worst pedophiles are predetermined to be that!
I believe that God allows free will outside of His will! This allows God to still be God, yet not be the author of evil. He doesn't have to allow it. But His plan of salvation because of His love and patience for us to repent.
Even homosexuals are predetermined (to live 180° opposite of the way they came into the world from their parents ) and Paul, who wrote Ephesians and Romans, didn’t know about Calvinism read Romans 9:1-5 he wishes he could be cut off for the sake of Israel!
@@jjphank I am on the Provisionist side. I was showing the irrational arguments of Calvinism.
@@truthtransistorradio6716 except provisionism is wrong, because the acronym says you can never lose your salvation, and that hell is not eternal look at the provide acronym;
OSAS Hebrews 6:18. ..It is impossible for god to lie. 3 verses in the Bible say your name can be blotted out of the book of life, for 3 various reasons; Psalm 69:28, revelation 3:5, 22:19!
Never receiving Jesus is not the only way to go to hell Says Matthew 7:21-23 ; verse 23 ‘away from me I never knew you’ does not apply to everybody, Jesus says this twice in verses 21 and 22! “Not everyone will say to me (on that day)……., yes many will say…..” If OSAS was true he would’ve said “everyone and all” instead of “not everyone and Many”! So not everyone will go to hell based on never knowing Jesus, and other verses will back this up as well! you can no longer use Matthew 7:23 to say they were never saved to begin with!
Same with 2 Peter 2 “after knowing the Lord, they went back into their vomit as a dog; or back into the mud as a pig wallowing in the mud”. The word ‘knowing’ is the same word in Matthew 7:23, it’s ‘ginosko’ in the Greek- it’s a salvific relationship with Jesus! So you can lose your salvation, says this verse as well!
2 Peter 2:20 “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning!”
THEY ARE ENTANGLED IN THE CORRUPTION OF THE WORLD…AGAIN- says this verse! Jude 12 - “twice dead”; Dead in sin, born again, dead again!
And there’s many more; Revelation chapters 2 & 3 are full of ultimatums and all Jesus is focused on is our works!
Revelation 2: 5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place!
Revelation 2:14 there are some among you….. 16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
These are just 2 and Jesus says “he who overcomes” , Overcomes is present active- future tense, and Jesus says this to all 7 churches, even the 2 good ones! You have to stay faithful to the end of your life to go to heaven!
John 3:16 is he who believes, or continues to believe will have eternal life! it doesn’t say ‘believed’ past tense, you have to maintain your faith to go to heaven!
The Greek word ‘believes’ is ‘Pistis’ which basically means faithfulness so faith equals faithfulness, according to the Bible!
So if you have problems with this, then you have problems with the word of God, the Bible!
You need to study these passages so that you can make it to heaven!
If your pastor cannot answer these questions according to what I just said, then you need to leave that church!
I would love to see you answer the question leighton refuses to respond honestly to.
You see, you don’t get away from the problem of evil by holding to a non-determinist view. In fact the problem gets worse. All you have to do is apply God’s attributes to any situation. We’ll use your example of a pedophile.. if he rapes a little girl, God is omniscient which means he knows about it before it even happens. He’s omnipresent which means he’s there before and during the wicked act. He’s omnipotent which means he has the power to stop it (even if you say he refuses to interfere with freewill, he could still stop the man’s heart or even make him unbearably sick before he has the chance to do it). And so it inevitably follows that He is making a conscious decision to allow this to happen since he is CHOOSING not to stop it. Now the question is what do we do with that…it appears you would rather say that it’s out of God’s hands somehow even though you’re not an open theist as far as I know. While my answer is that God has a Holy and just purpose in allowing this to happen even if we don’t know what that purpose is. The best answer a libertarian has is that he allows it solely because he gave us freewill but allowing a rape simply because you have too much respect for the rapist’s freewill is not a sufficient reason.
Now I know you reject compatibilism but it’s important to note that I’m not saying God is forcing this man to commit the rape… he’s simply allowing the man to do what he wants with his own freewill according to the sinful nature he has apart from God. But without this divulging into an argument about the nature of Calvinism and compatibilism I’d like to hear your own positive explanation since it’s clear based on my example that even in your system God is making a real decision to allow that specific act of evil. Does he have a reason or not? And is it just that he loves the rapist so much and has so much respect for his freewill that he refuses to save the helpless victim? Or is God just as helpless as she is in that situation? I’m truly curious what your answer is.
Thank you.
@quinnpeterson2716 I will give the same answer God gave Job. Also 2 Peter 3.
Then when he did choose to wipe out a whole nation like Sodom and Gamorrah, the same who ask why he allowed evil, think He is wrong for punishing evil! I don't know why God will kill a whole nation at times, and be patient at other times.
I will say this! You and I are sinners. What if God struck us dead before we ever had the chance to sin? He could have done that as well. Then I would say that God's grace is so great, that if the rapist came to repentance, he would be forgiven. I believe Jeffrey Dahmer came to faith in prison.
The pain and suffering in this lifetime is insignificant compared to eternity! By the way, I disagree with most people on the punishment of hell. I believe that lost souls die in the lake of fire, and they don't feel unending torment.
We have all sinned and deserve death. But the gift of God is eternal life. We are born with this sin nature, and the only way to be given a ressurected body is to believe in Jesus. Since he is the atonement for sin, without his blood, they will die in their sins.
Very simple: God doesn't always get what He wants(wills). He does not want or will me to sin: but I still do.
He does desire you to know that He forgave that sin by His Son, Jesus Christ, before you committed it.
I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
Does anyone know what I can search on the desiring god website to find this quote?
They are. Boom!💥 😇
Analogesis 😂😂😂 this is so funny. First it was Leightonism now this😂😂 people are so funny.
But anyways this video was so so good, I’m going to listen to this maybe 2 or 3 times
Leightons Response to if God willed His Son to be murdered than God has two wills: 32:52
Because of free will. A desire is not a must.
I have two children. I had them knowing that wouldn’t listen to all my biblical instruction. I still choose to have kids.
Leighton, I usually watch your videos on my Amazon Firestick, and I notice that many of your videos have the sound slightly out of sync with the picture. I definitely don’t see this issue with any other videos I watch. I just wanted to give you a heads-up. The difference in syncing is slight, but it’s definitely there. It seems the picture lags behind the sound.
As a Catholic I agree. Wish we could all engage in rational discussions and hear the other side.
Our works are necessary for salvation. As well as many other things. Like all the things the Bible says so.
So you believe faith plus works?
@@DJ-pq7wz Doesn't matter what I believe. What the Bible teaches and the Church has always taught is that our actions matter, both before and after any justification and that Faith and Works cannot be separated.
This is NOT to say - and the Church does not teach - that we have to earn our way to Salvation - but that Sin is a real thing both before and after we come into relationship with our Lord. And that we should strive towards virtue instead of Sin - all for the glory of God, and all to bring others to know and love Him. None of it for our own boasting - all of it as humble obedience to our Creator, Sustainer and Redeemer.
J.L seemed to vere more towards compatibility.
That is very biblical
No good tree produces bad fruit, and no bad tree produces good fruit.
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Calvinism is a perverse doctrine. It is a foundational doctrine, which much, if not all flows. It is not some small theological point.
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Those that teach it are bad trees! These are not "good" men. Let not many if you become teachers.
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We, or especially myself, need to quit giving or extending false charity to these false teachers. They are wolves unless they repent.
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They are destroying so many souls and corrupting the faith of so many hungry and good willed souls.
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Their are eternal consequences to ideas, and if they be bad or wicked ideas, then God help us!
Yes God desires all to be saved, but there is that niggling little factor called free will. I can desire my children to grow up to be godly adults, but it is and will always be their choice to be so.
Because god gave us free choice that's why. He has allowed us to make our own decisions for our growth
Thus saith the Lord Jesus Christ, to me, when I asked Him about free will.
“None of My sheep have free will.”
I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
@@robertcoupe7837 You made that up. There's no scripture that says his sheep have no free will. Nor do you have the authority to receive doctinal revelation for the rest of us.
@@halodisciple8459 I never said that it was scripture but rather a prophetic word that Jesus Christ spoke audibly to me.
Thus saith the Lord Jesus Christ, to me, when I asked Him about free will.
“None of My sheep have free will.”
If you do not believe me, ask Him yourself.
I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
@@robertcoupe7837 Oh, so you're a prophet then. You have the authority to declare doctrine for the rest of us? That's not what the Lord tells me.
@@robertcoupe7837 Sorry, but if it's not written somewhere in the scriptures, I can't go by what you say
It is God's will to save some; those who accept the gospel as truth and believe that Jesus died for their sins will be saved.
Calvinists don’t believe 1 Corinthians 1:21 is true as written in the text.
Plain and simple, you can't force people to see the light or come to the light.
When anyone takes love out of the equation any meaning no matter how morbid is possible
I would argue that a blanket form of love and a refusal to pursue a majority of the ones you claim to love is the morbid view.
Which is what universal atonement is saying. You’re saying, “I died for every single person and the only thing they have to do is become intellectually convinced that I am real and that I love them.” But if that’s true, why does God not pursue every person in the same way.
If it comes down to intellectually convincing people that they need Christ, why do so many people in the world die without even hearing the gospel? Couldn’t God herald the gospel message audibly through thundering clouds? Or rain scrolls written in the languages of unreached people groups?
Why doesn’t he do that?
Surely God is in control of His own mind and can make His decision to grant a creature free will causally independent from His foreknowledge of what this creature would decide to do afterwards.
When I read the scriptures I see a God who pursues a relationship with men. _Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the Lord_ -Isaiah 1:18. But when I get around Calvinists, I see a group of people that largely exhibit no relationship with the Lord. They do not talk to Him, nor do they expect to hear His voice. They barely pray, and even that out of a sense of biblical duty. Most of them do not _know_ Him. I'm not speaking of _know about Him._ I'm talking relational knowing. I know who Trump is, but I don't know him because I've never met him or spoken with him. That is what Jesus means when He rejects those who come to him at the judgement claiming to belong to Him. _‘I never knew you; depart from Me'_ - Matthew 7:23
Just so complicated. Just by acknowledging God sovereignly gave us the ability to choose Him solves the issue. Calvinism creates mutiple definitions for the same thing. Just exhausting. I literally don't understand why this doesn't make sense to others.
Brainwashing over time! Calvinists need to read the Bible chapter by chapter, until they’ve finished one book and go to the next and step out to do the great commission, not the great omission!- Matthew 28:16-20! Are you telling people about Jesus at the grocery store or walking the dog? Don’t Do the great omission!!
Also, once saved always saved is not true !
OSAS Hebrews 6:18. ..It is impossible for god to lie. 3 verses in the Bible say your name can be blotted out of the book of life, for 3 various reasons; Psalm 69:28, revelation 3:5, 22:19!
Never receiving Jesus is not the only way to go to hell Says Matthew 7:21-23 ; verse 23 ‘away from me I never knew you’ does not apply to everybody, Jesus says this twice in verses 21 and 22! “Not everyone will say to me (on that day)……., yes many will say…..” If OSAS was true he would’ve said “everyone and all” instead of “not everyone and Many”! So not everyone will go to hell based on never knowing Jesus, and other verses will back this up as well! you can no longer use Matthew 7:23 to say they were never saved to begin with!
Same with 2 Peter 2 “after knowing the Lord, they went back into their vomit as a dog; or back into the mud as a pig wallowing in the mud”. The word ‘knowing’ is the same word in Matthew 7:23, it’s ‘ginosko’ in the Greek- it’s a salvific relationship with Jesus! So you can lose your salvation, says this verse as well!
2 Peter 2:20 “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning!”
THEY ARE ENTANGLED IN THE CORRUPTION OF THE WORLD…AGAIN- says this verse! Jude 12 - “twice dead”; Dead in sin, born again, dead again!
And there’s many more; Revelation chapters 2 & 3 are full of ultimatums and all Jesus is focused on is our works!
Revelation 2: 5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place!
Revelation 2:14 there are some among you….. 16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
These are just 2 and Jesus says “he who overcomes” , Overcomes is present active- future tense, and Jesus says this to all 7 churches, even the 2 good ones! You have to stay faithful to the end of your life to go to heaven!
John 3:16 is he who believes, or continues to believe will have eternal life! it doesn’t say ‘believed’ past tense, you have to maintain your faith to go to heaven!
The Greek word ‘believes’ is ‘Pistis’ which basically means faithfulness so faith equals faithfulness, according to the Bible!
So if you have problems with this, then you have problems with the word of God, the Bible!
You need to study these passages so that you can make it to heaven!
If your pastor cannot answer these questions according to what I just said, then you need to leave that church!
Before one can understand the sovereign work of God in regeneration [born of God] one comes to see that such regeneration gives you an honest and good heart before the seed is sown. Luke 8:15
I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
@@robertcoupe7837 God wants all men to be saved first Timothy 2:4, second peter 3:9!
God, predestines groups or plurals only, never individuals. Ephesians 1 -2 points: “ us and we” are pre-destined never “you and I“! And 11 times in 11 verses from 3-14 you have to remain “in Christ“ (in him, in whom) to be predestined!
Romans 9:1-3 Paul is talking about the nation of Israel, all the way to the end of chapter 11 ! So, “Jacob, I loved, Esau I hated“ is genesis 25:23 “there are two nations in your womb“! It’s talking about ‘Nations,’ not individuals in the whole context of those three chapters! Stop taking it out of context, along with Ephesians 1!
Of course, we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Esau despised his birthright !
So God truly does love all people, he truly did make hell for the devil and his angels just as Matthew 25:41 says !
Even the 42 youths, mauled by the 2 bears, was because they mocked Elijah‘s rapture, a.k.a. the resurrection , they were saying “go on up Baldy “ ; and ALL their prophets just recently Were killed by Elijah and they should’ve known to stop worshiping Baal! Bethel was the headquarters of Baal worship, where this took place! 490 priests got killed by Elijah, There was no Priests around,; should’ve been a gigantic clue.
So God never arbitrarily and haphazardly deals with any human being ! His love cannot be measured says Romans 8!
But if you’re a Calvinist, it’s “his love cannot be measured , (Wink, wink)“!
Come out of the false belief system of Calvinism ! Now you have no excuse because you cannot out argue this, let’s hear you try!
Read Matthew 25 the parable of the Calvinists, a.k.a. talents ! Where the guy buried his talent calling God,- somebody who doesn’t judge rightly & he was thrown into hell as a result! He had the wrong view of God, & So Will a Calvinist, they’ll have a callous view of God & The love of Christs sacrificial death on the cross!
@@robertcoupe7837 yes. One must repent and accept Christ before they are born again. Gods Grace awakens all but then all must accept Him. Pretty basic Christian theology.
So, how does Calvinism get past Gen 1 and 2?
Adam and Eve are in the garden. They are face to face with almighty God and intimate with Him. Yet, through all of this perfection, they rebel against God from a state of perfection. They were not defaulted to depravity. Did they resist God? Did they reject God? Did they reject the will of God? Which of God's wills empowered or directed their sin?
47:38 RE; Lamentations 3:32-33 Piper is imposing Determinism onto the text (no surprise), BUT while it acknowledges God causes grief, it cannot be ignored WHY.... The condition of Israel in the book of Lamentations is BECAUSE of their own sin... it it God's punishment and intended to bring them back to him in repentance. And they were warned many times before it became reality for them. It was never for God's own "good pleasure" as Calvinism demands. But the Determinist must also say it was God who determined the very disobedience for which he punished them. And then just claim 'his ways are not ours' and it's toooo 'mysterious' for our finite minds to comprehend. As-if those ideas have merit... But they are only designed to make you stop questioning Calvinism....
Determinists must maintain the "tension" of which they are so fond... or abandon their doctrine... which they seem to be 'determined' not to do.🤔
There is no 'tension' regarding the nature of God in the proper context of scripture.
AMEN!
@@AndrewKeifer 👍👍
How do you define or take account of the Calvinists view of self-determination?
It’s whack; God wants all men to be saved first Timothy 2:4, second peter 3:9!
God, predestines groups or plurals only, never individuals. Ephesians 1 -2 points: “ us and we” are pre-destined never “you and I“! And 11 times in 11 verses from 3-14 you have to remain “in Christ“ (in him, in whom) to be predestined!
Romans 9:1-3 Paul is talking about the nation of Israel, all the way to the end of chapter 11 ! So, “Jacob, I loved, Esau I hated“ is genesis 25:23 “there are two nations in your womb“! It’s talking about ‘Nations,’ not individuals in the whole context of those three chapters! Stop taking it out of context, along with Ephesians 1!
Of course, we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Esau despised his birthright !
So God truly does love all people, he truly did make hell for the devil and his angels just as Matthew 25:41 says !
Even the 42 youths, mauled by the 2 bears, was because they mocked Elijah‘s rapture, a.k.a. the resurrection , they were saying “go on up Baldy “ ; and ALL their prophets just recently Were killed by Elijah and they should’ve known to stop worshiping Baal! Bethel was the headquarters of Baal worship, where this took place! 490 priests got killed by Elijah, There was no Priests around,; should’ve been a gigantic clue.
So God never arbitrarily and haphazardly deals with any human being ! His love cannot be measured says Romans 8!
But if you’re a Calvinist, it’s “his love cannot be measured , (Wink, wink)“!
Come out of the false belief system of Calvinism ! Now you have no excuse because you cannot out argue this, let’s hear you try!
Read Matthew 25 the parable of the Calvinists, a.k.a. talents ! Where the guy buried his talent calling God,- somebody who doesn’t judge rightly & he was thrown into hell as a result! He had the wrong view of God, & So Will a Calvinist, they’ll have a callous view of God & The love of Christs sacrificial death on the cross!
Before one can understand the sovereign work of God in regeneration [born of God] one comes to see that such regeneration gives you an honest and good heart before the seed is sown.
Luke 8:15
I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
@@robertcoupe7837 God wants all men to be saved first Timothy 2:4, second peter 3:9!
God, predestines groups or plurals only, never individuals. Ephesians 1 -2 points: “ us and we” are pre-destined never “you and I“! And 11 times in 11 verses from 3-14 you have to remain “in Christ“ (in him, in whom) to be predestined!
Romans 9:1-3 Paul is talking about the nation of Israel, all the way to the end of chapter 11 ! So, “Jacob, I loved, Esau I hated“ is genesis 25:23 “there are two nations in your womb“! It’s talking about ‘Nations,’ not individuals in the whole context of those three chapters! Stop taking it out of context, along with Ephesians 1!
Of course, we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Esau despised his birthright !
So God truly does love all people, he truly did make hell for the devil and his angels just as Matthew 25:41 says !
Even the 42 youths, mauled by the 2 bears, was because they mocked Elijah‘s rapture, a.k.a. the resurrection , they were saying “go on up Baldy “ ; and ALL their prophets just recently Were killed by Elijah and they should’ve known to stop worshiping Baal! Bethel was the headquarters of Baal worship, where this took place! 490 priests got killed by Elijah, There was no Priests around,; should’ve been a gigantic clue.
So God never arbitrarily and haphazardly deals with any human being ! His love cannot be measured says Romans 8!
But if you’re a Calvinist, it’s “his love cannot be measured , (Wink, wink)“!
Come out of the false belief system of Calvinism ! Now you have no excuse because you cannot out argue this, let’s hear you try!
Read Matthew 25 the parable of the Calvinists, a.k.a. talents ! Where the guy buried his talent calling God,- somebody who doesn’t judge rightly & he was thrown into hell as a result! He had the wrong view of God, & So Will a Calvinist, they’ll have a callous view of God & The love of Christs sacrificial death on the cross!
I find it funny that at 44:14 John Piper quotes from Isaiah but misses 8 chapters from the same book that are prophecies against Hezekiah (Isaiah 28-35) because he had put his trust in Egypt’s army over God to protect Judah from an impending attack by Assyria. Then you see in chapters 36-39 that Hezekiah listens to Isaiah, putting his trust in the Lord and for the rest of Hezekiah’s reign the Assyrians never attack Judah… so that leaves 8 chapters of unfulfilled prophecy because Hezekiah makes a different decision than what was prophesied. I can’t possibly fathom making a point about determinism from this book without indirectly calling God a liar
Brenden Stanfield, yes, we are elected in Christ through our response to the Gospel.
Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.🙏🙏🙏
Gosh, Piper! God wants all to be saved but in another sense He doesn't? Piper is passionately embarrassing the Calvinist camp!!!! Gee whiz!!!
I've always wanted to hear a calvinist explain false converts if we are unable to even desire to be with God unless he gives us the ability to desire him.
A desire for Social status, peer influence, guilt, pride, etc. just ask any Arminian that got baptized for a second time later in life and states the first religious influence was not from the heart but due to other reasons.
@@gdot9046That is a good answer, I agree, but I wouldn't limit it to Arminianism, I'm sure it happens under all theological systems.
@@randyochandleragreed
It's God's will that none of his people perish and not one will. "I pray for all that thou has given me I pray not for the world.
Hey Leighton, have you read John Chrysostom’s Romans commentary? It’s good!
I started questioning John Piper when he, supposedly a prolifer, said prolifer’s were liars, naive and presumptuous who voted for Trump. I was so disgusted I started questioning everything he believes, and that would be Calvinism.
Piper is pure nuts then. Trump banning taxpayer dollars going overseas for abortions by Executive Order saved ~ 5 million human lives.
Why aren't they?
He gave us all ' free will ' and most people don't WANT to be ' saved '
The Holy Spirit of God tries to talk them into it, but many still don't want it.
God doesn't FORCE us.
Thus saith the Lord Jesus Christ, to me, when I asked Him about free will.
“None of My sheep have free will.”
I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
You're right. The Holy Spirit is too dumb to know have to persuade people, and too weak to chnge their heart, even though he's a member of the God head who created them. It's a good thing that provisionists are smart enough to do all these that God can't do!
Like I said, many still don't want it.
No body wants to be saved until the Holy Spirit regenerates them.@@michaelszczys8316
How horrible that some believe that God "wanted" Jesus to be "murdered." “No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.” (John10:18) "I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he shall live forever; and the bread also which I shall give for the life of the world is My flesh.” (John 6:51) "I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep." (John 10:11) "We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren." (1 John 3:16) "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me." (Galatians 2:20) "And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God." (Ephesians 5:2)
@@JRey-re9rl I quoted Scripture about Jesus giving and laying down his life. What point are you trying to make that ties into the Scriptures I quoted? I want to understand you better before replying.