Lee-Enfield No.4 And French MAS-36 Snow Test In Finland!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มี.ค. 2021
- Mike and Fab dunk their rifles in the Finnish snow to see if they keep running. Mike was, of course, running a Lee-Enfield No.4 (Sterling conversion in .308 Win / 7.62 NATO instead of .303 British) whereas Fab was, again of course, shooting his pre-WW2 MAS-36 in 7.5x54 French.
Over at Forgotten Weapons, Ian also tries out his M39 Mosin Nagant: • M39 Snow Test in Finland
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Bloke: "We are out in Sunny Finland..."
Chap: looks up
I laugh heartily.
They do make a good team...
It's always sunny in Finlandelfia.
Canadian who lived in Sweden... I've gone 3 month stretches in IKEA country without ever seeing the sun once.
It does look like a fairly mild early spring day actually. It looks pretty warm actually. I mean, these guys can see their shoes. In the real Swedish/Finnish winters of the northern parts, good luck seeing your waist some days.
@@neruneri They should had been here two months a go.
Balmy -20C makes the filming antics that much worse.
The real problems start when you dunk a warm rifle into snow and need it two hours later... 😉
Exactly. Or the next morning. Or when it's colder and everything flash freezes.
@@Oblithian Hopefully no one will try and duplicate the potentially dangerous test.
That's when you learn that sometimes, it's okay to pee on a firearm.
One of the things stressed in Canadian winter warfare training you have missed is that you never bring your small arms in other than for brief periods for maintenance. The rifles are left outside so that, if dropped or pushed into snow, the snow does not cake to them.
@Mäkirannantörmä Now what sounds like a pragmatic solution!
No NCOs giving you grief about not being in control of your rifle though? Some kind of watch I presume?
@@fhlostonparaphrase Yes, the same person is also responsible for keeping the fire going in the stove (and only in the stove). As a II/98 I can confirm that the 98/99 winter was pretty brutal, although I was spared the most bitter Lapland temperatures, Hamina was a bit warmer.
I would've never thought about that. Great piece of interesting information!
@Mäkirannantörmä Hmmm. I remember it differently. At least in 93-94 you were expected to keep your rifle within arm's reach at all times. And we did bring them inside tents, often kept at the head end, closer to the wall. Don't remember getting any malfunctions for that.
*As long as it is cold and dry in the first place.
It’s easier to relate to this as a Canadian then Arizona mud. Would be cool to see this expanded to other rifles.
As a Minnesotan, snow or mud, you takes your chances.
Send a few milsurps my way and I will test them in snow
I support the RCAF for the CF-18s at both Cold Lake Alberta and Bagotville in French Quebec, so I completely understand where you are coming from.
Ian from Forgotten Weapons did this to his M39 Finnish Mosin.
I’ve got an AR and an SKS that I’ve been meaning to dunk in the snow. Too bad my car can’t make it to the range right now. I have shot them when it was -10°F out. Ballistol gums up way before then, actually. 5W30 Mobil1 is my go to lubricant right now.
I also want to do some “glacial silt” tests, since that what I’ve got for mud here in Alaska.
"Perfidious Albion", that line kill me.
I never realized just how beautiful the MAS 36 is until now, great looking rifle.
The mas36 is a lot of things, but beautiful is not one of them. That said, I really really REALLY want an old civilian hunting one in 10.75x68...
I really like the two piece stocks, they just have something cool to me. Considering it does give the rifle more strength I always wonder why no more nations do them.
it's majestically simple.
All you need and notthing more.
@@Petterstrojka all French guns are beautiful especially the Berthier
Except for the lack of a safety, would be interesting how many french soldiers were shot accidentally 🤔
It’s almost like the no4 was the final iteration of a long line of rifles that had been used all over the world and had to work in suboptimal conditions.
Sub Tropical India, Snowy Canada, Sandy Africa. the thing just works.
@@AnikaJarlsdottr The Toyota Hilux can only hope to emulate the Enfield No4.
>When Ian McCollum is relegated to cameraman
Have to say this test made me proud of British engineering. No.4 worked beautifully
Huzzah and/or Hurrah.
I love the Mk. 4!
The Lee-Enfield is well recognized for its quick-to-cycle action, but I am equally impressed by the smoothness of the MAS-36's action.
Even in a dodgy caliber,the No4 had a brew and just got on with it
Saw Ian's test he said you guys gave him the idea here to view the og.
Above freezing isn't real snow test, real fun begins when its -15 and any water from molten snow drips in to all the crevices and freezes :D
We'll book more suitable weather next time! :D
@@BlokeontheRange Yeah, you really dropped the ball on this one ) But on serious note I heard that main danger is not the snow itself but wet internals freezing shut
@@BlokeontheRange Also instructors in "One shepherd" winter event were very specific about leaving rifles outside the tent to avoid accumulation and subsequent freezing of condensate inside the guns
Fortunately for the French there wasn't a lot of snow in Indochina, Algeria or Suez...
I'm pretty sure there were some in Narvik
Though they do have the Alps.
algéria winter = snow
sand test?
France did send some troops into snowy Norway in 1940 when Germany invaded and AFAIK accounted for themselves fairly well.
The way he delivers that 'oops' while fake dropping something, I'm almost certain there's a Bloke In a Maids Outfit video somewhere
Subscribe to my OnlyFans and find out :p
Bro wtf
The Narvik Drill. Somebody get this man a Krag
Mas 36 were used by French Troops in Narvik works pretty well
Pretty sure I could hear Ian scream internally when the MAS hit the snow.
Chap makes the distinctive French disdain sound at his rifle trying to get the snow out of the sights
I was taught to hunt using a Lee-Enfield #4 in .303 and we used a rubber (balloon or condom) over the end of the barrel, and a toothpick is handy for clearing the sight ring. Plus you carried a cleaning rod & kit in your day pack.
The next four hours or so were spent doubeling about , whilst the Seargent Major raised the local temprature several degrees with his encouragment.
Is that a Spike Milligan quote?
@@DickHolman No, just standard British operating procedure for dropping a personal weapon :-)
@@51WCDodge Of course, it all comes back to me now!
@@DickHolman I think that was always part of the plan 'SHHS! I'm not doing that again! :-)
Throwing snow balls into the breech was naaaaaaaaaaasty!
What I got out this" the Bloke and the Chap play in the snow, plus some rifle shooting. I totally ok with that though.
Nice vid. And nice type 1 !
ahhhh beautiful sunny and warm Finland !
The Chap has appropriately donned the Chasseur Alpin outfit.
I read that in the Battle of the Bulge troops used to piss on their ice jammed M-1 rifles to free them up.
Gotta piss somewhere, and you shouldn't ever be far from your rifle. Just saying...
I did NOT expect to hear Ian as camera man.
Now I can die happy. I have actually heard a real Frenchman say "ooh la la."
That Perkele patch Bloke has is sweet.
Wish you had a Madsen M47 to test. Also rear locking, aperture sight, designed in Denmark where they have snow
I would be curious to see if any of the Mauser or Mauser style actions (1903 or 1917 Enfield/Eddystone) handle extraction with snow in the bore/chamber better than the Mas.
I don't know for the snow, but I fired my M48 BO at -40 celsius at my outdoor firing range without any problems. My rifle had to spend 45 minutes in my car in the heat before arriving at my firing range. The action was filled with frost. You have to be a lot more violent with the action on the other hand.
I love the ease of stripping the clip on the mas 36. That rifle is a beauty
I absolutely love that beret, c'est magnifique
It is called a "tarte". It's the béret of the chasseurs alpins, the "blue devils" as the german called them in WW1
Great video
This and Ian’s video are my favorites from the winter brutality
This is like a mud test, but cooler.
Groan.
I see ehat you did there..
Man Chappie gave that rear sight some impressive CPR.
There was tongue involved 💋
I was gonna do some of this testing myself, but forgot until now (and the road to my range is impassable for my car).
I did get a little bit of extreme cold testing done, just didn’t add any of the abundant snow around me.
3:48 I like when he shoots the subtitles says [Music]
Edit: 4:32 [Applause]
It would be interesting to see how a Swedish m96 copes with the snow. Pretty well I should think.
Hi Fabian. Did they change the hood of the aperture sight on later MAS 36 to make it more usable in snow? Also, why didn't you throw snowballs at Ian ... to simulate Soviet mortar fire. 😈
leave it closed all night then run it in t morning when the snow that the hot action melted freezes , see how hard\easy it is to move
Ian chimes in and I just went "Oh"
Thank you for making Eain crawl around on his belly in the snow and freezing his fingers
Let them sit a few hours. I was deer hunting in a blizzard with an 1895 Marlin 45-70. It just snowed big clumps. End of the day I had to fire off a round to get the action open.
How cool would a collaboration with you guys, Ian, and Mae and Othias?
Mike I’m in the middle of refinishing my no4mk1 and I’m having trouble finding information. The complete bolt was painted, but was the bolt head blued or painted?
I've never seen a complete bolt painted, they seem to be blued. the bolt head is usually either somewhat blued or in the white.
Seriously... can you get Valmet rifles in Europe? RK 62 or the commercial variants?
iirc didn't Ian on In-Range do a mud test on the MAS and it passed beautifully? Not sure if it was the 36 or the 49. Granted, breech was never open on that one. Ooh-la-la. loved that.
In winter I keep a little pick in the stock of my rifle specifically to clear my site. Here I was thinking I was paranoid.
"Lieutenant, remind me why exactly these trials results are important?"
"These are the winter tests - specifically where Private Bloke fell upon his weapon multiple times while handling snow, sir."
"Ah yes. These findings need to be recorded."
Have you ever been moving in the snow and not gotten it everywhere?
gone through and done stuff like this for fun and hunting with a ton of firearms now (snow crawl in -25c) the aperature is kind of a hindrance in snow... but the only rifle i aver really had do somewhat poorly was a k31..... it kept shooting with some hard beatings to close it (as ice likes to get in the bolt tracks) but the rear notch is so small and the sight protecters on it creep up at the top and really like to hold snow so you gotta keep knocking snow from the front sight....... and really work the bolt hard to break up snow build up...... svt40 i thought would be real bad because of the sight hood but it seems the muzzle blast from the flash hider is good enough to knock most of the snow out of it most shots....... i should do that stuff again and film it....
Wouldn't it be a good idea to hang a stiff short brush with a wooden or copper pointy peg ( to clean out the aperture sight of ice ) on the sling?
Just for snowy conditions, make it part of a winter kit or something.
Open (enough) sights all the way id say modern soldiers certainly dont need more kit already got a ton
@@insiainutorrt259 oh absolutely, I meant way back than
just keep a toothpick or wood match handy.
That #4 just continues to impress. Is the Sterling conversion something of a unicorn? I wonder how a K11 or K31 would perform.
A full conversion like that with the charger bridge, new ejector is indeed a unicorn - I've never seen another one. Most of the conversions lack both of those parts, and are just a new barrel and a new magazine.
@@BlokeontheRange ok. I won't be too disheartened then if I never see one yo add to my collection. Were you using it just because or is .303 hard to come by in Finland?
@@maverickpaladin4155 Hard to come by, plus it's a cool rifle I wanted to show off :)
Yes the 7.62 Lee Enfield unicorn mags (CR141). How much are they going for? Thx
Lots. If you can find them!
@@BlokeontheRange I have a few for my PHT4 so may have a few to sell
Bloke in the snow
Is your rifle not equiped with chamber- and sight heating??
Seeing stuff like this you can better understand why some weapons are they way they are. Take the Ak-47 for example. The sights are old fashioned, easy to clean on snowy conditions. There is no bolt-hold-open device so flying snow or mud had a lower chance to get into the chamber.
To me this shows the difference of a rifle designed for someone in a sporting shooting range, and other made taking considerations to the soldier needs on the battlefield.
this.
To be fair, both the SMLE and MAS36 were designed as military rifles. Any rifle will fail if you pack snow into the chamber so the cartridge can’t seat.
@@briansmithwins True, but one had the little details solved better than the other. And those make a big difference in the end.
I remember when swedish army had a set with AKM and M16A2 for familiarizing. Everybody was amazed by all M16 brass collected in fist size pile. Our AK4 (G3) certainly didn't do that. So a lot of tolerance (and force) to prevent freezing up is a thing.
Does the Lee-Enfield work in the snow? I dunno Bloke, maybe ask the Canadian Rangers. They only traded up to the same Tikka you have when parts for their military arms were going for museum collector prices. Gotta love the difference in snow tests here, though.
Ian: I have to clear the snow to fire it *brush brush wipe brush"
Bloke: I have to clear the snow to fire it *phoo*
Seems that you guys get a bit of snow in Switzerland as well. Maybe you could do more of these snow tests.
I’ve got a feeling that if the ranges don’t shut down for the winter, the realities of travel in winter in mountainous terrain preclude access to said ranges. I myself am currently cut off from my preferred range here in Southcentral Alaska due to the unmaintained roads being too slick for my car to successfully traverse.
Official ranges are shut generally from October to early April but private ones may vary.
@@thebotrchap So what you are saying is that you can have cooler guns but you get less time to shoot them? :)
Watching this and Ian's video makes me wonder if gunshots sound different over snow or if gunshots just sound different in Finland.
Snow absolutely has a muffling effect on sound.
The principal question is of course, did you compare the experience for a joint video with Ian and his Finnish M39 for comparison purposes?
Of course :)
number 4 are still in service with cad rangers they are only still getting the actual service rifles in 2020
I'm watching at a 36° C heat wave, hoping to feel less hot
I have to say that the real problem with snow is when it melts and refreezes and the rust is cause after
Not if you take care of it.
ITs not a .303 its a .308 conversion. So is it actually FIVE better ?
*Fatter
no, it's 0.005 better!
Sounds really impressive
AcKsHuAlLy .303 British is .312”diameter. Welcome to the wonderful world of cartridge nomenclature.
As way of explanation, British (and for that matter, Soviet also) caliber measure was from land to land (high point of rifling to high point), whereas American (and defacto world standard now) measure was from groove to groove. So that is how .308, .303, and 7.62x39 can all be considered .30 caliber or 7.62mm, even tho they’re different actual diameters.
Key take away: Don't get into a snowball fight with the bolt open on a bolt action rifle!
Indeed 😆
The Bloke is really clumsy. ;)
Awesome! Cool. Morning everyone
This is the finish version of the mud test
"hmmm bit too cold to see if it will strip...ohh lala...they did"
As they kept blowing in their guns I kept thinking that it's going to freeze and sure enough that happened. You do not want to blow into your gun in freezing conditions. Not even warmer conditions as they are in.
He he he! Bang bang bang! Hohohohoho!
Oh what fun
it is to shoot
in the finger freezing snow!
Bully the frenchie because he's french it's not fair man... and i'm spaniard; nice tests anyways, i think that Karl would agree that was a good snow/ice test for all three rifles.
Have a little oopsie with his french thingie, is that a euphemism?
It's been so long since youtube mentioned you had a video up I thought they'd unsubbed me (which would have made sense, since your ban was the reason I started making videos at all)...
I wonder how my AR-15 would do (14" barrel, mid length forward stock, UTE2 upper receiver)...
Oh là là !!
Butter-fingers on the range ;-)
Video : Two full grown men plays in the snow.
No K31 in the snow?
Do I hear some US-Arizona accent at 4:22?
Yea,I'm sure soldiers who ' accidentally' dropped their rifles in snow made sure the muzzle didn't get packed. I'm sure the puked the trigger and blew the snow out. Ice won't blow up a rifle. Watch demo ranch trying to blow up the cheapest guns( hi points) he put cement in the barrels ,he put bolts into the barrels, flex seal ect to 10 different .45s. Then when none of them blew up he got more creative and they proved even with blockages it's extremely difficult to blow up. Now old Damascus shotgun barrel or maybe a modern shotgun barrel walls are thin and I may be more cautious. But those Finns in the winter war with the riskiest I highly doubt if they took time to clear an obstruction.
that explains why we never using apertures
Bloke: "Flawless!"
***Immediately crams snow into No.4***
I'm chortling like a Grade-A fool 😂😂😂
th-cam.com/video/g6V19emlcjE/w-d-xo.html
Does anyone know what coat Chap is wearing here?
French Chasseur alpin wind proof smock as worn during the Narvik campaign and battle of France.
you can make some ASMR about loading and rechambering your rifles
Would be interesting to see how a hot, wet rifle operates once it has frozen. I think that is one of the most problematic areas. Understood that carrying out such tests isn't always straightforward on somebody else's range!
I do not think the rimmed .303 round would have done as well as the .308/7.62x51.
Please explain why it would have made the slightest bit of difference cos I'm not seeing it...
What silly game next?
It would have been great to see how the Tikka would have performed.
I was thinking the same thing. Unfortunately I do not know any of the current Rangers issued with one.
Bolt actions not so obsolete, now...😉
Unfair! Open chamber ! 😂😂
Ok who else stopped in the middle to look up Brunox?
I'm glad I'm not the only nerd here who has to research everything they haven't heard of before
Me too. Seems like it’s a CLP that’s popular in Europe
in this case i think that who is using the rifle
While I don't doubt the quality of the Sterling conversion I feel that rimmed/rimless is something that will make a difference in the test.
Still interesting for what it is though.
Why?
@@BlokeontheRange I could be completely wrong but wouldn't a rimmed case be more likely to snag the next cartridge, and cause a double feed, especially if dirt/snow is causing extra friction?
Ian had no feed issues with his Mosin with rimmed ammo.
Sorry, but that proposed mechanism isn't really plausible.
@@BlokeontheRange why?
It's a known issue with all rimmed cartridges fed from a box magazine, I don't see why increasing friction (assuming snow won't act as a lubricant which it probably would tbh) wouldn't cause this to happen more frequently.
If you didn't tell me chap was French, I wouldn't have thought it!
Also, no safety of MAS? La folie!
French doctrine was to chamber on command when you intended to at shoot someone. It that isn’t the case, your rifle should not be cocked with one up the spout. A safety is thus superfluous.
@@thebotrchap Difference in doctrine tends to be the answer to a lot of things :)
I guess you get used to it (with training)?
Can you pick me up a rifle sling while you are there for my Valmet M76?
Why would the Maas m36 be used un snow? Germany invaded on May 10th and surrendered 45 days later on June 25th!
Norwegian campaign. Plus the Finnish campaign that didn't happen, and also Germany *could* have invaded France in the winter.
Not snow in lee enfield ? ridiculous test !
Fun
4:18 Gun Jesus speaks from the heavens.