Same I had no idea on BoS what it meant even and have been flying a bf109 with 500m with mixed results haven’t flown any other planes yet but this helps a lot!
Maybe one day we'll get split vertical and horizontal, all this really zaps the fun of turning fights in planes with wing mounted guns (especially now bodenplatte is out). Many of these planes often used 250m horizontal with 400-600 vertical (p51, p47, p39, Spitfire) by late war. Note that an off-boresight gun elevation means the impact point moves when you roll the aircraft, this means you can adjust deflection shots without maneuvering - great for high roll rate planes. For the La5 I use 600m, the nose is high and obscures targets easily. Adjusting to a high lob takes a little patience but it pays off.
@@davidaitchison8875 Haha, yes. Was trying to get my point across and couldn't think of how to write it. What I mean is the vertical difference in angle between the aircraft's longitudinal axis and the gun barrel. In official documentation this is described as "Elevation off ADL"
Good video! Thank you! One thing I noticed was that many of those kills I could not see the bandits very well. Almost completely hidden in the ground cover. btw I am new to IL 2 BoS. I played Aces over Europe and Aces over the Pacific back in the day. This is quite a bit different and harder. Thanks for all of the videos. I have more time watching and learning from your videos than I do flight time. At least for now.
There is a great image out there of a P-47 manual that shows convergence and the effect of banking and turning. If you're pulling lead on a horizontally turning target, the bullets are all over the place. Also realized that the Emil (Bf109E-7 in BoM) has wing cannon like in Cliff of Dover. I am doing a career now on the Moscow map with the E-7, and use 300m convergence. Glad to see your recommendations is to use the same. I do, however, shoot much closer, since my gunnery is crap and I normally run into fast turning I-16s, so I try to get in close, pop a shot, and run.
When I was a kid, and reading U.S. WWII pilots accounts, it was often mentioned by the pilots they tapped the rudders slightly to ensure the bandit got the maximum effect of the gunfire - probably not something for every situation - but it was mentioned enough it seemed to be a thing. It probably cut down on trying for that picture perfect sight solution... It's close enough, now make sure he gets a lead hosing down.
Thank you for the tutorial. That was spot on! I had issues with my P51 I was over Nijmegen. I had a BF 109 in my sites in a tight right hand turn at 3500 ft so close I could spit on the Bandit and my bullets were dropping I couldn't figure it out. Thanks for showing us this info.
With most planes I use a 230m convergence, as recommended by the RAF at the time. But in planes with nose mounted guns I use a 400m convergence, as it will enable accuracy at 200 and 400m (or so I've been told)
The M2's .50BMG M8 APIs have about the best ballistic coefficient of all of the projectiles we deal with. They start fast and lose velocity and energy slower than the rest that I can think of. At 400m they should still be penetrating fuel tanks. Do you remember "Lunatic's WWII Aircraft Gun Ballistics Page"? You can still find it with the Wayback Machine. You can calculate flight paths with the information there. FYI - I am not advocating for the M2s, I prefer German cannon armaments myself but I just don't want to see the M2s short changed.
I often use 270m on most because of the american planes as I read up that on the early N series reflector gunsight that they're ranged for 300 yards when the wingtip of the opposing aircraft (in most cases) was filling the sight picture, and 250-300 on the spits as well because I often fly the MK5 with those .303s
I use 450m convergence in the 109 and 190s....mainly because I like to reach out and touch you early with deflection shots. Once I hit you with cannons and affect your performance, i close in for the kill
just an FYI, some planes have weapons that can't be ranged as much as others. Using some of the 109s as an example, the nose mounted 30mm cannon stock on the K4 is always ranged at 110m, the 20mm nose cannon can range anywhere from 110m to 1000m, the MGs on the F4 and G2 can't range higher than 500m, but on the G14 and K4 they can range up to 1000m. If you're trying to use the MGs to guide the cannons on target, you have to keep that in mind, especially in the K4 where having the MGs ranged past 110m will make the cannon fall way low on the crosshair. The G14 is the only 109 I own where I can crank the range up to 1000m and have all guns still be aligned
@@SheriffsSimShack the 30mm on the K4 and G14? Because those are the ones I tried it with and the MGs ranged up but the Cannon didn't The 20mm on the G14 definitely did angle up to match the MGs
I fly WT sim, so in that context for attacking bombers with a corsair, i set the 50cals at 400 to increase the range due to the gunners, but never thought that the 50cal would lose it's power so soon.
Generally I like about 200m, been like that for some ten years in every sim with it. It has a disadvantage at long range so I would set it higher if hitting bombers, but it allows me to kill fighters in one burst often. Nose mounted guns as well, I primarily fly 109. 400m is probably better for those if you're not super precise.
I use 200yds (182m) with spits etc. simply because the gunsights work well with it. I can set the bars to show 32yds for the fighters (yes I know 190 is 34) but I know that a JU88 pretty much fills the ring and the He111 only goes a little beyond so no need to adjust. Obviously that is not precise but it is close enough, especially as you will likely have a high rate of closure with a bomber so you are only at precise convergence for a split second anyway and opening fire just before either of them fill the ring will be effective. The JU87 & 110 are both around 3/4 of a ring. There is more difference there but most of the time we are not hovering exactly at convergence with zero closing speed anyway. To be honest, even with the fighters it does not matter if I forget to set the bars as they fill half a ring and my brain automatically recognises 200yds anyway. Lastly, my gunnery is rubbish so precise convergence is the least of my worries :-)
It was told by a great pilot from the old Il2 times "you won't hit anything from 400m so set your convergence to ~150m". I use 200m in every plane for years.
I like to fly the BF109 and have always used 100 to 200m convergence and honestly struggled to see where my rounds are going and to hit the enemy in tight dogfights. Usually the enemy would have to be buried in the nose for the rounds to hit. Def going to try 400m now
I have just recently dialed my usual 400m in some to see if I like it better. Problem is, I frequently double up running strafing against AAA emplacements to help out bombers, and for strafing, you definitely want a longer convergence. I really struggle with the guns on the LA-5s, so am experimenting and trying to find the best setting. Doubly frustrating, as I hit quite well with the 109 and don't see that there should be much difference.
Wing mounted machine guns used to be vectored slightly differently from each other to produce 'cones of fire', so their convergences were slightly different, but this is not modelled in the game I believe.
correct, gun harmonization. I did not mention this to make the tutorial concise. Furthermore all ur guns shoot at the exact same time, which makes hitting the target a bit harder.
I use 400m for German planes and pretty much don’t fly allied. The two reasons are wing guns and ring sights. Besides convergence issues the wing guns are too low and deflection shooting often has to be done blindly. Ring sights just simply suck. The German sight is better than the Russian sight and the 109 is more stable than a yak. Because of this shooting with the 109 is like doing needlepoint with machine guns and cannons.
Thank you very much! I'm getting the game and a Thrustmaster T16000 tomorrow. So much to learn! Any tips on where to go to find other people playing the game for chats etc outside TH-cam?
Sheriff, thank you so much! Can you do a tutorial about bombing with Bf-109? May be also about how to effectively fly together with someone. How not to lose each other, how to cover each other and how to approach to fight when fighting together
@@dcbadger2 Jabo is not something you will see Sheriff use a bf109 for , . Personally I think there are better planes more suited to this than the bf109, like the bf110. Using a bf109 in this role is a waste of a good fighter plane. I know career play may do this , but almost all online players like Sherrif don't do much offline play. Which is why you don't see many tutorial on this on you tube... however this may help : th-cam.com/video/QLKzvXaJW_4/w-d-xo.html
Convergence doesn't make much of a difference on the La-5 until you start setting it at insane ranges (600+). That's due to the trajectory being rather flat initially, and the guns being so close to the sight. Whether you set 110m, 200 or 400m, the behavious is roughly the same: the bullets go basically to the exact center of your crossairs at battle ranges, then fall to the second notch down at 1000m. So if you set any of those ranges and you're trying to shoot up someone less than 400m away, your aimpoint needs to be exactly in the center of the sight. For some reason, horizontal convergence is still a thing with those guns in IL-2, though. I'm pretty sure irl they were not harmonised horizontally and were shooting straight ahead. Anyway, that means that taking 100m is hurting you, since your rounds will split up past 100 meters, and at 400 meters you really loose the benefits of having them both grouped so tight. Using 300 or 400 means you're basically shooting parallel with both guns at any reasonable distance. Note that with 400m, at a range of 200 meters your rounds will still go a bit above the sight, about halfway up to the first line. One other thing to note is that both the La-5 and the FN tend to nose up just a slight bit when you start shooting. It's not necessarily noticeable when in the middle of a fight, but it's there. If you're on someone's dead six, at short range, aim generally for the lower part of the fuselage, the gun kick should bring you immediately to cockpit level. Hope that helps.
Thanks! Yes I remember picture of fighters at shooting range... but will be interesting to know if different air pressure is considered for bullet too. Range should be greater at altitude. isn't?
Good video, and as you mention, you use what seems to work for you better, through trial and error and some other people may come to a different conclusion. If anything, this video encourages you to experiment. I agree with the P51, 250 seems to be the sweet spot!
I decided to make this video for two reasons. Popular demand and for the reason that I can reference this video in How to videos in the future.
Thanks Sheriff. I've been using 400meters in the 190, started experimenting with the 109F yesterday and couldn't hit much, this video will help.
Thank you for this info. As a newbie this is extremely important.
Same I had no idea on BoS what it meant even and have been flying a bf109 with 500m with mixed results haven’t flown any other planes yet but this helps a lot!
Maybe one day we'll get split vertical and horizontal, all this really zaps the fun of turning fights in planes with wing mounted guns (especially now bodenplatte is out). Many of these planes often used 250m horizontal with 400-600 vertical (p51, p47, p39, Spitfire) by late war. Note that an off-boresight gun elevation means the impact point moves when you roll the aircraft, this means you can adjust deflection shots without maneuvering - great for high roll rate planes. For the La5 I use 600m, the nose is high and obscures targets easily. Adjusting to a high lob takes a little patience but it pays off.
What? "Off-bore sight gun elevation". Did you just make that up?
@@davidaitchison8875 Haha, yes. Was trying to get my point across and couldn't think of how to write it. What I mean is the vertical difference in angle between the aircraft's longitudinal axis and the gun barrel.
In official documentation this is described as "Elevation off ADL"
Good video Sheriff !
I usually play at 200m all types of planes but I'll try 400m back for axis now ;-)
I usually fire at close range.
Good video! Thank you! One thing I noticed was that many of those kills I could not see the bandits very well. Almost completely hidden in the ground cover. btw I am new to IL 2 BoS. I played Aces over Europe and Aces over the Pacific back in the day. This is quite a bit different and harder. Thanks for all of the videos. I have more time watching and learning from your videos than I do flight time. At least for now.
There is a great image out there of a P-47 manual that shows convergence and the effect of banking and turning. If you're pulling lead on a horizontally turning target, the bullets are all over the place. Also realized that the Emil (Bf109E-7 in BoM) has wing cannon like in Cliff of Dover. I am doing a career now on the Moscow map with the E-7, and use 300m convergence. Glad to see your recommendations is to use the same. I do, however, shoot much closer, since my gunnery is crap and I normally run into fast turning I-16s, so I try to get in close, pop a shot, and run.
When I was a kid, and reading U.S. WWII pilots accounts, it was often mentioned by the pilots they tapped the rudders slightly to ensure the bandit got the maximum effect of the gunfire - probably not something for every situation - but it was mentioned enough it seemed to be a thing. It probably cut down on trying for that picture perfect sight solution... It's close enough, now make sure he gets a lead hosing down.
Nice movie! I use convergense: nose weapon - 500 m, wing weapon - 250 m (or sometimes - 500 m only on P-40)
Thank you for the tutorial. That was spot on! I had issues with my P51 I was over Nijmegen. I had a BF 109 in my sites in a tight right hand turn at 3500 ft so close I could spit on the Bandit and my bullets were dropping I couldn't figure it out. Thanks for showing us this info.
I pretty much only fly 109s and 190s and only ever have my convergence at 400m. Works well.
I'm using 400m in the 109G2. I also did a few missions at 400 with the mustang and that went alright too.
Hard to argue with any of your logic Sheriff! Great informative video!
Great video! I always use 230m for wing mounted guns and 400 for centreline and inward like fw190.
Excellent presentation for a newbie like me; thank you!
With most planes I use a 230m convergence, as recommended by the RAF at the time. But in planes with nose mounted guns I use a 400m convergence, as it will enable accuracy at 200 and 400m (or so I've been told)
Excellent job on explaining convergence. Thank you!
The M2's .50BMG M8 APIs have about the best ballistic coefficient of all of the projectiles we deal with. They start fast and lose velocity and energy slower than the rest that I can think of. At 400m they should still be penetrating fuel tanks. Do you remember "Lunatic's WWII Aircraft Gun Ballistics Page"? You can still find it with the Wayback Machine. You can calculate flight paths with the information there. FYI - I am not advocating for the M2s, I prefer German cannon armaments myself but I just don't want to see the M2s short changed.
Good video as always. My setting is 200m for nose armament planes and 300m for wing armament planes.
I often use 270m on most because of the american planes as I read up that on the early N series reflector gunsight that they're ranged for 300 yards when the wingtip of the opposing aircraft (in most cases) was filling the sight picture, and 250-300 on the spits as well because I often fly the MK5 with those .303s
I use 450m convergence in the 109 and 190s....mainly because I like to reach out and touch you early with deflection shots. Once I hit you with cannons and affect your performance, i close in for the kill
just an FYI, some planes have weapons that can't be ranged as much as others. Using some of the 109s as an example, the nose mounted 30mm cannon stock on the K4 is always ranged at 110m, the 20mm nose cannon can range anywhere from 110m to 1000m, the MGs on the F4 and G2 can't range higher than 500m, but on the G14 and K4 they can range up to 1000m.
If you're trying to use the MGs to guide the cannons on target, you have to keep that in mind, especially in the K4 where having the MGs ranged past 110m will make the cannon fall way low on the crosshair. The G14 is the only 109 I own where I can crank the range up to 1000m and have all guns still be aligned
This is wrong. It took me like 2 mins to fact check this. the 30mm can be adjusted from 110m to 1000 freely. The rest is explained in the video.
@@SheriffsSimShack the 30mm on the K4 and G14? Because those are the ones I tried it with and the MGs ranged up but the Cannon didn't
The 20mm on the G14 definitely did angle up to match the MGs
I fly WT sim, so in that context for attacking bombers with a corsair, i set the 50cals at 400 to increase the range due to the gunners, but never thought that the 50cal would lose it's power so soon.
they still have power. They still punch through quite a few parts of the aircraft, but they dont through the entire plane for example
I have convergence set to 800m across all the planes. I set it up so it felt right for me but I have never given it a deeper thought though .
ah I waited for the man from the artillery corps
I don't believe you.
Generally I like about 200m, been like that for some ten years in every sim with it. It has a disadvantage at long range so I would set it higher if hitting bombers, but it allows me to kill fighters in one burst often. Nose mounted guns as well, I primarily fly 109. 400m is probably better for those if you're not super precise.
Great explanation, thanks for creating this guide.
I use 200yds (182m) with spits etc. simply because the gunsights work well with it. I can set the bars to show 32yds for the fighters (yes I know 190 is 34) but I know that a JU88 pretty much fills the ring and the He111 only goes a little beyond so no need to adjust. Obviously that is not precise but it is close enough, especially as you will likely have a high rate of closure with a bomber so you are only at precise convergence for a split second anyway and opening fire just before either of them fill the ring will be effective. The JU87 & 110 are both around 3/4 of a ring. There is more difference there but most of the time we are not hovering exactly at convergence with zero closing speed anyway. To be honest, even with the fighters it does not matter if I forget to set the bars as they fill half a ring and my brain automatically recognises 200yds anyway. Lastly, my gunnery is rubbish so precise convergence is the least of my worries :-)
It was told by a great pilot from the old Il2 times "you won't hit anything from 400m so set your convergence to ~150m". I use 200m in every plane for years.
That old Il2 pilot is wrong
@@SheriffsSimShack maybe..but I have never seen any better pilot than he was :)
400m is not an ideal range but good marksmen can certainly hit aircraft at that range. One sees it quite frequently, in the game anyway.
Yeah I agree. Around 400 for BF109 G6. Nose cannon should be a hit no matter what. Im still learning to aim.
Great refresher, thanks Sheriff.
I use 200m for all aircraft for a2a, but I bump it up to 400m for ground attack strafing and attacking bombers.
Awesome tutorial
I like to fly the BF109 and have always used 100 to 200m convergence and honestly struggled to see where my rounds are going and to hit the enemy in tight dogfights.
Usually the enemy would have to be buried in the nose for the rounds to hit.
Def going to try 400m now
I have just recently dialed my usual 400m in some to see if I like it better. Problem is, I frequently double up running strafing against AAA emplacements to help out bombers, and for strafing, you definitely want a longer convergence. I really struggle with the guns on the LA-5s, so am experimenting and trying to find the best setting. Doubly frustrating, as I hit quite well with the 109 and don't see that there should be much difference.
Wing mounted machine guns used to be vectored slightly differently from each other to produce 'cones of fire', so their convergences were slightly different, but this is not modelled in the game I believe.
correct, gun harmonization. I did not mention this to make the tutorial concise. Furthermore all ur guns shoot at the exact same time, which makes hitting the target a bit harder.
I use 400m for German planes and pretty much don’t fly allied. The two reasons are wing guns and ring sights. Besides convergence issues the wing guns are too low and deflection shooting often has to be done blindly. Ring sights just simply suck. The German sight is better than the Russian sight and the 109 is more stable than a yak. Because of this shooting with the 109 is like doing needlepoint with machine guns and cannons.
Great tips!
I use all planes 400m, BEST distance to shotdown bomber and evasive gunners
Thank you very much! I'm getting the game and a Thrustmaster T16000 tomorrow. So much to learn! Any tips on where to go to find other people playing the game for chats etc outside TH-cam?
On my discord. Link is in the description.
@@SheriffsSimShack Thanks! Installing it :)
Sheriff, thank you so much! Can you do a tutorial about bombing with Bf-109? May be also about how to effectively fly together with someone. How not to lose each other, how to cover each other and how to approach to fight when fighting together
A 109 Jabo tutorial would be great. There are several careers in Great Battles with primarily air-to-ground 109's so that would be helpful.
@@dcbadger2 Jabo is not something you will see Sheriff use a bf109 for , . Personally I think there are better planes more suited to this than the bf109, like the bf110. Using a bf109 in this role is a waste of a good fighter plane. I know career play may do this , but almost all online players like Sherrif don't do much offline play. Which is why you don't see many tutorial on this on you tube...
however this may help : th-cam.com/video/QLKzvXaJW_4/w-d-xo.html
It would be interesting to know how much convergence you use Sheriff the La5 or LA5fn, I tried 200 to 250 and up to 500, none seems effective to me.
Convergence doesn't make much of a difference on the La-5 until you start setting it at insane ranges (600+). That's due to the trajectory being rather flat initially, and the guns being so close to the sight.
Whether you set 110m, 200 or 400m, the behavious is roughly the same: the bullets go basically to the exact center of your crossairs at battle ranges, then fall to the second notch down at 1000m. So if you set any of those ranges and you're trying to shoot up someone less than 400m away, your aimpoint needs to be exactly in the center of the sight.
For some reason, horizontal convergence is still a thing with those guns in IL-2, though. I'm pretty sure irl they were not harmonised horizontally and were shooting straight ahead. Anyway, that means that taking 100m is hurting you, since your rounds will split up past 100 meters, and at 400 meters you really loose the benefits of having them both grouped so tight. Using 300 or 400 means you're basically shooting parallel with both guns at any reasonable distance. Note that with 400m, at a range of 200 meters your rounds will still go a bit above the sight, about halfway up to the first line.
One other thing to note is that both the La-5 and the FN tend to nose up just a slight bit when you start shooting. It's not necessarily noticeable when in the middle of a fight, but it's there. If you're on someone's dead six, at short range, aim generally for the lower part of the fuselage, the gun kick should bring you immediately to cockpit level.
Hope that helps.
Vielen Dank! Sehr hilfreich!
and here i use 1000 meters for the k4 :))
Do you know how altitude of the calibration? I mean that this can't work at sea level and over angel 20. Isn't?
The calibration was done on the ground historically, and this will be the case for the sim too.
Thanks!
Yes I remember picture of fighters at shooting range... but will be interesting to know if different air pressure is considered for bullet too. Range should be greater at altitude. isn't?
Good video, and as you mention, you use what seems to work for you better, through trial and error and some other people may come to a different conclusion. If anything, this video encourages you to experiment. I agree with the P51, 250 seems to be the sweet spot!
Good video.
Thanks!
I use 230m on the p51, 300m on everything else
how is this game so awesome???
Hi world
👍
BF-110 350-400m