Polyamory & The Risk Of Being Left Behind: Louis Theroux
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 พ.ย. 2024
- For hundreds of years, romantic relationships in western society have been based on the idea of monogamy: two people, together, forever. But with nearly half of all US marriages ending in divorce, perhaps the traditional model is no longer fit for purpose.
In Love Without Limits, Louis travels to Portland, Oregon, the heart of a movement seeking to rewrite the rulebook on how we conduct intimate relationships and experience family life.
You can watch the full documentary on BBC iPlayer: www.bbc.co.uk/...
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It looked like Jerry was going to cry, I don't think this is the life he imagined.
Peppy Flare the one thing I don’t get is he’s not walking away from this which is understandable but he allowed this to happen in the first place.
Also, I do agree that one person always misses and loses out more.
Beth Nicholson well, he was probably so in love with her that he’d rather be some part of her life than none of it.
@manboobs selfish is the right word for it. "my husband's loneliness is not my responsibility"
Common Dirtbagz yes that’s true. But we’d rather hold on to whatever part there is left of them I suppose
shadow ronin I don’t think Jerry has self respect
Just divorce her Jerry.... and move on
We need those nukes, now.
@Hanze Brix :)
@@grizzlyblackpowder1960 I imagine the most poetic end would be a 16 ton ACME weight that cruses all three on the bed
hes clearly to cucked to do that hell any man who would allow this for 1 second is to cucked to do that
Look into Jerrys eyes that mutherfucker is about to snap. He will walk into a McDonald's with an AK47 and let loose
“I’m not responsible for his feelings” seems like a sugarcoated way of saying “I don’t care about his feelings”. He’s obviously unhappy with the situation
You see they don't have to care about others these progressives. They are the ultimate selfish sickos.
Being responsible for someone else's feelings is called codependency.
@@joeharrison1797 - Um, no Joe. You tried this same shtick in your reply to my comment.
Being responsible for each other's feelings is just that. Being responsible. You cannot disregard the feeling of the person who is the most vulnerable to you. People who use semantic slight of hand to do whatever the hell they want in relationships aren't enlightened or smart. They are manipulative and selfish.
@@banquo3336 Don't take my word for it. Find a friend or a relative that's a therapist, they'll say the exact same thing I'm saying. We are all accountable to our partners to support their happiness & such, but as for who is responsible, we are all each responsible for our own wellbeing.
@@joeharrison7674 That was actually from a psychologist.
A healthy attachment means shared responsiblity for each others well being, not indifference, abandonment, and disenfranchisement. Where you don't see that regard is in predatory, abusive, or one sided relationships. One side is taking advantage of the other's emotional support at thier convenience instead of it being mutual care. People aren't units of enjoyment that you only show concern for when it suits you to do so.
2:15 Erm...how can you be married to someone and then say that their loneliness isn’t your responsibility. Divorce him and then you can say that truthfully
Kat slater that’s what really got me there too
RIGHT, it pissed me off so much
It's always true, though. Being with someone is a right, not a duty. You should never change yourself to suit another. They've done their part by being okay with them trying to find someone, even while married.
to say otherwise is textbook codependency
@@joeharrison1797 lol. You probably think of your situation as incredibly profound. What a sad bunch you 4 make? But I would agree that you are the one getting the best deal.
All I see is pain in Jerrys eyes.
Jerry had worked an 11 hour day, then six hours of filming, at the bottom of the stairs he was desperate to go to bed. You're right Jerry was in pain, he was exhausted and just wanted to go to sleep, which you'll see his loving wife notice and tell him to go to bed.
@@joeharrison1797 Of course that is what you want to believe. It removes all agency from you. It's obvious that Jerry never would have voluntarily pursued this lifestyle unless it was foisted onto him by his wife Yes, he agreed to it but he certainly didn't choose it. You can see the heartbreak in his face, in the way he carries himself, in the way he speaks, that is NOT from long hours at work. That is the devastation of loss. The feeling of being passed over by the woman you most cherish. I'm not judging you or your lifestyle, do your thing man, but don't delude yourself into believing that it's all good for everyone.
@@matthewhoffman9892 Okay, ask him yourself. Jerry@moremarriedthanmost.com. If you won't believe me, would you believe him? Or are you so convinced you're right that you won't believe the man when he tells you his own feelings?
@@matthewhoffman9892 Also I talk to him on a weekly basis, you've never met that man. I don't understand how you can feel so entitled to knowing more about his feelings than I do.
Joe's been working double time on this damage control.
Heidi just seems like a selfish, manipulative person to me. Gretchen is just in it out of apathy and social brownie points. Jerry is the only one even capable of suffering a loss in this relationship.
why is he allowing it in the first place?
@@higgs135 because it would mean losing her, which he still loves, and he gets to keep her if he puts up with the bullshit, he's probably in denial.
I feel bad for Jerry. He seems to be forced into this to keep his wife. I hope he wakes up.
@Grape Ape95 HE's pretty stupid to be honest. I would dump any women who wants to have more than one partner
I think Gretchen may have been fine with it but Jerry just was not. I doubt Jerry and Heidi are still together.
Looks like Jerry's getting the short end of the stick.
Anyone who uses the words "beta" are 100% never an "Alpha" but in this case i agree
@@osscarfransson I'm an alpha beta
well i am an alpha beta alpha beta....beat that
@@osscarfransson I'm a beta omega... *drops mic*
And Heidi is getting both ends of the stick
Heidi doesn't like her husband , let's be honest here . She doesn't even want to be in same room as him
and who can blame her? he seems singularly unlikeable.
@@haret0n She married him. Do you think his personality changed that much?
@@haret0n Jerry it's beautiful and the only good person there.
yeah but somebody has to pay the bills
Heidi can go to hell
“Because we are not hierarchical ...” almost all sentences starting with that are lies, get out Jerry.
Indeed, polyamory pretends to dissolve hierarchical relations. However, it seems that at least in some polyamorous relationships it only strenghtens hierarchical relationships. Look how Jerry is humiliated and, to keep some dignity, says he and only he is responsible for his own well-being.
@wildebest
> i see literally no man advocating for polyamory.
> joe is all over the comment section defending this sick set up
Your rant is incoherent.
@wildebest
Do you not understand what a quotation is? What? What don't you understand?
You contradicted yourself. Not a hard concept to grasp.
@wildebest
Yeah, real sorry I wasn't able to fit your arbitrary demand for how I should express myself. If not being an incoherent mess makes me a nerd, then I'm a nerd.
Also, you're still using 'nerd' as an insult? Nerd is a compliment now, my dude.
Also also, I don't really use reddit. You seem to have a lot of prejudices over really stupid things that don't matter. I suggest you introspect and think about how you got this way.
@wildebest
lol, you got rekt. Stay mad.
my heart hurts for jerry
Heidi should honour the marriage with Jerry as by getting married to Jerry she promised to be "faithful".
Humans naturally experience jealousy and monogamy was created to counter act this. Now people are encouraged to be indulgent and sexual deviants. It's just an attempt to undermine the family and it's values. Polyamory is destructive and solely based on sex, which is not a good foundation to a long term relationship.
@Andrew Smith your right, Jerry does need another women as she broke the code she signed up for after marriage.
Stop talking pish, Do you really think Heidi and Joe's relationship isn't based solely on sex? Come off it mate.
@Andrew Smith well it is.
@Audrey Harrison I'm sorry, I can't understand your sheer dishonesty. Your telling me if Heide said to Joe she doesn't want to have sex anymore he'd leave her in an instant. Their relationship is based on sex.
Shannalyn Shanmugam it seems to me that poly is kind of like another way for cheating but just with other people who are in, off the sidelines.
Ugh. You can see the pain in Jerry's face. Being told so condescendingly by his wife, whom he obviously loved, "go to bed, you look tired" -- in other words, get out of here so I can be with my boyfriend. It's like watching a mom talk to a little child. And then her comment about "I'm not responsible for his happiness." Wow. Any spouse who says that missed the part about "love, honor, and cherish," and always wanting the best for your significant other. What a selfish, narcissistic woman.
I took it another way. She seemed concerned for him when she said he looked tired & when she said she's not responsible for his happiness, I mean that's true, yeah? My wife isn't responsible for my happiness, I am. She's there to help of course, but she's not 'responsible'.
When he talks about being responsible for making Jerry happy (himself) it almost sounds like that is what he has convinced himself in order to cope. He does NOT sound strong and confident as if this is his own mind. It sounds like what he has allowed himself to be force fed as the right attitude.
So apparently Jerry had been on his feet for 17 hours at that point and badly needed sleep, and the documentary crew were kind of pushing him into answering questions that he was too polite to refuse. Heide was taking charge of the situation and forcing him to rest, at least according to her boyfriend Joe. Joe isn't the most impartial source so obviously take that with a grain of salt, but it does seem to explain what we're seeing in that clip. I hope it's true. Jerry seems like a sweetheart.
My impression is that it's disgustingly foolish. These people know the harm they're causing. They don't seem to have much insight into their psychosexual development, or where their needs come from. They just know that they have needs, and satisfy them selfishly, without growth. Living this lifestyle turns so many aspects of a relationship dysfunctional and creates so much sadness. They could separate. They could be swingers. They could date other people. But this is so unwise and selfish.
@@harrietpotter649 Jerry is a pathetic cuck and frankly deserves to be walked over.
Jesus Jerry get the hell out of there! For your own mental health.
Your wife has nothing but contempt for you!
That tone that she took with him was appalling. "It's time for you to go to bed now Jerry..."
@@Thom1212 I know man!!! She dismissed him like he was a child.
Well choosing your own selfish wants so clearly over your partners. But going the extra step to offload responsibility of her impacts in order to be fine with what she is doing. This is not love. Thus leaving no reason left for jerry to stay. If he is scared of being alone i reckon he should start trying to date others while keeping whatever it is up with thingy. And then finding someone better can let go of the sack of poop.
I would like to be with Jerry in a monogmy relationship. I think there's someone else out there for him
There is no testosterone in Jerry's voice. This is as good as he'll ever get.
Not responsible for his happiness? Okay but you're supposed to contribute to it.
Exactly. I hated her so much when she said that. When you're in a romantic relationship with someone, you have to take some responsibility for the happiness of the other person. Otherwise you take the love you recieve from the other person completely for granted.
@@bliepblooper2555
So apparently ethical women like you still exist. Hmmm....pleasantly but cautiously surprised.
@@simplehealthyliving4681 Oh, sorry dude. I'm just a guy with a female name for my Google account.
@@bliepblooper2555
While that is funny on the surface, you know what it implies don't you? That ethical females are almost non-existent in this day and age.
Nevertheless, thank you for your honesty.
@@simplehealthyliving4681 Well, in general a lot of people can be awful if they know they will get away with it. It's just that women are told that they have to 'follow their heart', 'think with their gut', 'do what feels best for them' and all those kind of non-rational methods of dealing with things. So with some mental gymnastics they can rationalise every awful action based on their own feelings. But it is a big mistake to think that 'intuition' will always lead to the best outcome. Intuition on itself is very selfish and because of that, it can be very unetical.
Awww Jerry needs a hug and a monogamous relationship
That's a very nice sentiment, but he's happy. He found a girlfriend since taping, he's quite happy and we all adore her.
kid*
@@joeharrison1797 Do you love her too?
@@Norpan506 Nope. She's a total sweetheart and I'm super happy she and Jerry found each other, but I'm not attracted to her.
@@joeharrison1797 After all drama he needs some real love. Not the bullshit family stuff. Do you think that fat ass will offer him some adventure?
Look at how broken Jerry is, I wish I could meet him so I could tell him to grow some balls and leave. I sincerely hope Jerry finds happiness and I'll be thinking about him for a while after this. Just imagine your soulmate loving somebody else more than they love you and them being blatantly happier with that other person, it must break your soul. Polyamorous relationships make a mockery of the sanctity or marriage, those vows you take are vows you really are supposed to mean and many do not. Sad.
Well said
What if fidelity wasn't in my wedding vows? I'm breaking no oath I took on my wedding day.
@@joeharrison1797 then why get married?
@@MegaNiQ Oh that's super easy. There is a huge societal benefit to marriage (taxes, property, children rights, medical rights, etc.) I knew I wanted children with Gretchen and to build a life with her, marriage was a no brainer. Is the paper I got saying that I married her important to me, not really (other than the above benefits) I was married to Gretchen in my heart of hearts, and had given my commitment to her long before we tied the knot.
Even if I do want additional partners, I will never not want Gretchen, I love my marriage to her, and as an adult I get to choose what that means. If I want fidelity then I put fidelity into my marriage, if I don't want fidelity then I leave it out. It hers and my marriage so the only people who get to choose what's important in it are her and I.
@Moshe Dayan Why do so many people get off on the idea of it all ending in violence?
I’ve known 5 different poly couples over a 30 year span. Always the same scenario.. one person threatens to leave if their previously monogamous partner doesn’t “ give them “ a second sexual partner. Never seen it be good for anyone but the alpha-egotist who broke up the first relationship. Great in theory but rarely in real life.
And what about those of us who have always been in a polyamorous relationship?
I think it depends on how you go about it. I've been in a poly relationship where we both agreed to it at the start. Ours was more hierarchical than theirs though. It worked out pretty well until we had to live in separate countries due to work. But I'd blame that on the long distance part rather than the poly part.
I have never been in a poly relationship like that
@@marinebiogirl you are all mentally disturbed. Try to look for help
marinebiogirl you’re just all slags basically
The meek voice, the veiling, self repressive smile that covers the declaration that he suffered anxiety (and no doubt other negative effects) to re-frame the heartbreak (trauma) of the person he idolises and loves, being with someone else. The almost scripted language he uses when explaining the principles around the his wife's choices, Jerry seems to have lost his self esteem entirely. His agreement with the situation suggests he has been coerced and probably gas-lit along the way, his sense of self possessed by his wife whose passive control over him is clear to see. Wouldn't be surprised if she's a covert narcissist. Poor Jerry. If he is truly happy and at peace by his own definitions, so be it. If not, I hope he wakes sooner rather than later.
Actually kind of a considerate viewpoint. Thank you for that.
His wife is a professional therapist. That might answer your questions about the passive and clinical language he's using to describe it.
@@shestewa6581 Indeed, it may well be a factor!
What is in it for Jerry and the other wife? Like wouldn’t they be better off letting the other two do their thing and find new relationships that actually fulfill their needs? 🧐
@Andrew Smith what does jerry get from this though, he looked so sad
Maybe if Jerrys' wife honoured what she said to him on there wedding of being "loyal and faithful" he'd be happy. He loves her so much he is afraid of losing her.
Humans naturally experience jealously so monogamy was created to counter act this. Now people are encouraged to be sexual deviants and indulge in their perverted ways. Just another way people are trying to undermine the family and it's values.
@Andrew Smith He's totally able to get another partner. He just hasn't found one yet. He doesn't need a 'mistress,' unless he's wanting to get into BDSM as well. lol
Jerry gets the option to find more love (got a girlfriend since taping) a happier Heide, a larger family that support him, more grown ups who love and care for his daughter...
@@joeharrison7674 If the house was burning down and Heide could only save one person... do you think she'd save you or Jerry? Be honest.
I have an incredibly strong feeling that if Jerry decided to pursue his desires and bring home another woman, Heidi would NOT be happy with it. Even though Jerry wouldn't be doing it for Heidi, "he does it for Jerry." This is because Heidi is greedy and too selfish to commit to her husband, who she knows loves her too much to leave.
Since taping Jerry has found a girlfreind. We all adore her and are so happy for them
@@joeharrison1797 That just confirms Jerry wasn't happy with the situation, given his need to go out and find another woman. It's plain as day that polyamory comes about because of a lack of fulfillment in a relationship. Your wife said herself that you two had marriage problems, which I'm certain will never be eradicated by you spending time with someone else. It's clear you're both unhappy in your current situation, particularly her, considering she's the one who has to deal with you being with someone else. There's no way a failing relationship will last in this current scenario. I'm willing to bet you and Heidi want to be together more than you want to be with your wife and Heidi wants to be with Jerry. I'm certain that eventually that will end up being the outcome, as much as you're all in denial about it now.
@@Gfresh844 I'm always amazed at someone's ability to watch a 3 minute video about our lives and then, with a straight face, claim to know more about us and our motivations than we do. I'm floored by the hubris.
You're right though, my dissatisfaction with my wife about how she loads the dishwasher will never be corrected by my spending time with someone else. My wife and I fight over the mundanities of married life, I'm not looking for another partner to fix that.
As for Jerry, he wasn't looking for another partner, one just happened to show up. He didn't start dating out of spite, he started dating because someone showed up that he was interested in dating.
@@joeharrison1797 Of course! Only YOU would say that, Joe.
@@DJBaffler Say what? You'll have to forgive me I've made a TON of comments here, I'm not sure which one you mean.
"His loneliness is not my responsibility" then step out of that relstionship and do not drag him along like dead wood.
Maybe because of Jerry's sweet, sweet money.
If his loneliness were here responsibility, that's the textbook definition of codependency.
@@joeharrison1797 Why does he stay with her tho?
@@bobbobington4119 Because he loves her, and she him. What's the upside in him leaving her?
Not feeling lonely in a marriage
I don't want to be judgmental but . . . .
Fuck that "judgemental" shit. Its just called having a view.
Watch the documentary. Link is in the description.
Oh I'm gonna judge...
This is appalling to me.
We evolved to pair bond and this seems just one more way to undermine the family unit further.
Humans suffer from jealousy and monogamy was a cure to such suffering.
I've known 3 of these couples who behave like this and seeing it makes me feel sick to my core.
Marriage and family has become unfashionable and being debauched, self-indulgent perverts is now the encourage way to be.
Not a good model for any society in my view.
Jeff T.
I am but a cat and even I agree.
Stating you opinion is different than judging. Judging is like these people are bad for their actions, expressing an opinion is saying your piece and still accepting the other person's viewpoints as respectable.
I can't help but see that Jerry looks incredibly unhappy
What do you say to the person you love most in the world when they say they have feelings for someone else? BYE!
BayouGrove Exactly, bye bye.
So right! Bye! People today are so fickle! You might as well say you want a divorced!
The phrase that came immediately to my mind had two words in it...
Feelings for someone else happen all the time in long term relationships. What matters is if the people in the relationship want to save the relationship.
Ideally, yeah, but I don't think Jerry has the strength to just up and leave. I think he's a meek person by nature and possibly prone to depression, which is why I find the "grow a pair, dude, and leave her" really pat advice. It's also a more complicated proposition than just leaving Heidi - they have children together, and if you watch the whole thing, his devotion to them is clear. Obviously, when you leave someone where kids are involved, who gets the kids and/or access rights becomes a whole battle in itself - something I don't think Jerry believes he has the emotional stamina for.
Felt bad for Jerry. At the end he was pretty much offering himself up for a three some with his wife and Joe, but she was like nope, it's not my responsibility to make you happy. Yet it's Jerry's responsibility to let you swan off into bed with Joe if that keeps you happy? Heidi just came across as selfish.
She was actually caught on her heels. The first time in the five years that we've been together Jerry brings this up is on camera. it caught her off guard. And if you listen closely he's not actually asking for it, he's saying if it was something she wanted he'd participate. I think you and others felt bad because you were supposed to feel bad, that's the drama they wanted out of that moment, even though there is no victim they really wanted one.
Jerrys wife despises him because he is weak. Where is his sense of self pride? He is constantly saying "oh no its ok." When he is obviously deeply upset. He is too afraid that telling the truth will result in him losing her, he is therefore compromising his own happiness for the sake of keeping whatever her name is around him. Sorry to say it, but he is weak hence why whatever her name is, is no longer sexually attracted to him.
That guy is broken
I've noticed that the primary motives for all parties involved (except Jerry) say why this relationship benefits them. But Jerry is thinking about the other person more than himself. Which is great in a mono relationship, but in a poly one it can be taken advantage of.
Dearest Jerry, you can do way better than your present over sexed over needy narcissistic wife, you just need to tell her to leave and find someone who will love and adore ONLY you. Best wishes to you 👌🏼
This is the Jerriest Jerry of all the Jerries - Rick Sanchez.
Jerry is gonna be suicidal in a few years. Poor guy, you can see the depression in his eyes clear as day.
Either suicidal or homicidal. And I don't blame him either way.
@@StrongandGrand He's gonna the type of guy that everybody in the courtroom would understand why he did it and deep down would somehow agree with what he did, but still must convict him no matter what
This whole "I'm not judging" culture we've created is messed up, man.
There are moral standards we need to uphold as human beings. We're more than just animals, for crying out loud.
"Evolutionary biology" doesn't/shouldn't override our ability to see things for what they really are.
Nor should we keel over just because someone arbitrarily decided it is the unforgivable sin to judge other people's actions. We're destroying our possibility of a brighter and better future. Maybe, I'm just being overly idealistic but still.
This is wrong, mate.
I feel for Jerry but he's enabling this as well. Guy needs to stand up and put his foot down, at least for the sake of his kid.
holysmokes44 the daughters presence and awareness of all of this is one of the most disturbing aspects of this video. Imagine what this does to her image of her father. Horrifying and disgusting
Jerry is a friggen sweetheart... I’m so hurt for him
Jerry looks like the best husband someone can have... but that btch decided to take extra dcks and care sht about him.
you're all bunch of cuck loving
Doesn’t look like the healthiest family for the little kid to stay with ...
Boooo. All of our kids have extra grown ups that love and support them in the exact same way extended family would, how is that a bad thing?
It could be worse if Heidi & Jerry split up.
Okay I know this is just a heavily edited three minute montage, but on first impressions I really have a hard time believing that Jerry is remotely okay with this. He's just afraid of being alone and knows he has no bargaining power in the relationship. The fact that she would claim she's not responsible for her husband's feelings is despicable, frankly. She can obviously see that what she's doing is deeply hurting him, she just doesn't care. Jerry needs to work up some self respect and leave her.
This was a highly edited snippet, your first instinct is an accurate one. And if I may I'd like to help clear up what Heide said. All she was saying is that at the end of the day Jerry is responsible for his own happiness. That all of us are responsible for our own happiness and we can't put that on other people. She wasn't saying she doesn't care, she wasn't saying she doesn't want to see him happy, she was just saying that HE and he alone is the only person that can MAKE himself happy.
There is a Will Smith quote that says something similar
"the idea that it’s your job to make your significant other happy or vice versa is completely and utterly “unrealistic,” as Smith puts it.
He concluded, “And, we decided that we were gonna find our individual internal private separate joy and then we’re gonna present ourselves to the relationship and to each other already happy. Not coming to each other begging with our empty cups out, demanding that she fill my cup. And demanding that she meet my needs. It’s unfair and it’s kind of unrealistic and can be destructive to place the responsibility for your happiness on anybody other than yourself."
@@joeharrison1797 ain’t gon lie, all seriousness aside, that will smith
Thing aged bad🤣
The movie is way worse
Well we know polygamous societies are way more violent and unequal and more depressed. Will see how this works out
Can you cite that source?
@@joeharrison7674 Jordan Peterson talks about it. I will check the source. He is talking about poly in which few men have all the women.
@@siddharthavlash1982 It is not only peterson who talks about it.There is shit loads of data on this.Just google it.
We do? Wanna cite your sources on that one?
@@joeharrison1797 Start with this one.
quillette.com/2018/06/07/explaining-monogamy-vox/
"I'm not responsible for your feelings" always means "I will do what I want regardless of your feelings"
When two people are in a mutually considerate bond, they share responsibility for each other's well being. It's part of the bond and having empathy, things that seem to be lacking in these arrangements. That one guy is s
A sad sight indeed. I can't imagine finding myself in that situation and trying to convince myself that I was ok with it.
Yikes.
You're confusing partnering with codependency. As his partner she has plenty to do with his well being and and happiness, she's just not ultimately responsible for it. That's all she was saying.
@@joeharrison1797 no that is not codependency, it's normal consideration and empathy for the person closest to you. Framing it as codependency is just legitimizing willfull ignorance of one partner's needs and how one's behavior effects them . Typical of thier ilk, they attempt to pathologize normal attachment and expectations because it gets in the way of thier self indulgence. And per usual, someone is always left miserable and doubting.
People aren't islands unto themselves. If anyone is going to not let you suffer, its going to be the one closest to you. Monogamous people figured that out long ago. I guess now we're are supposed to feel ashamed of that but that won't happen.
The devorce rates don't speak for themselves in the free first world, without fear or shame? Enmeshment with somebody else is never healthy. He is free to leave, probably with all of his personal possessions too... Like a responsible adult. There is empathy and being an emotional door matt, being a two way door matt is no more noble. Only in romance/sexuality is the rediculousness of monogamy indulge by society, you don't expect people in any other relationship to change who they are or be untrue to themselves for the sake of your emotional needs(infact it's counter productive and leads to alot of "resentment" later on down the road). There are supposed to be boundaries between individuals.
Jerry just divorce her , I feel sorry for you dude
Maybe Heide then can take half of his belongings, while moving in with her boyfriend :P
I don't feel sad for Jerry... he admitted to knowing he is responsible for his own happiness and yet chooses to stay in this beta position of loneliness. Hopefully he can grow a pair and leave her one day.
Thank you for not feeling sad for Jerry and acknowledging that he has agency. He's dating a girlfriend since taping, she's great and we adore her. There is no victim here.
@@joeharrison1797 Sounds like you love her too.
@@Norpan506 No, she's just a really nice woman and especially nice for Jerry.
@@joeharrison1797 Leave her alone, you did enough damage :)
What would you do if Heidi brought another guy into the equation? Would you also get another girlfriend like Jerry? I am pretty sure Gretchen would be happy and supportive.
@@Norpan506 We've actually talked about that, and while it's unlikely, it's not impossible. We would deal with it as best we could. It would be a struggle and there would be jealousy and we would figure it out. I would not get another girlfriend, I just don't have enough hours in the day. I'm all full up at two relationships to manage.
"I want an open marria-" *divorce
Poor Jerry. I don’t think he’s happy, he’s just putting up with it because he doesn’t want to lose her...
Any woman suggesting bringing another person into my relationship will be immediately dropped, without discussion.
Polyamory is a disgrace and I hope such degeneracy is never normalized in society.
The family unit is damaged enough without this too
Alternatively, accept that this doesn't have anything to do with you and keep out of other people's business. Nobody is forcing you to be polyamorous - it's clearly not a part of you. But in the same way as someone is born to love the same gender, or not have any sexual interest at all, polyamory is just as valid. And again, I stress this, it DOES NOT have any impact on your own life. So don't dictate what others should do with theirs.
@@flopthebird5487 It does when they are allowed to have children.
@@flopthebird5487 So the precedent this sets on culture doesn't affect anybody's life? Don't be so simple minded.
@PinkFloyeds
Woah, men and women setting boundaries on their relationship, how dare they!
@PinkFloyeds When that discussion is based upon your dissatisfaction in the relationship and changing the complete dynamic of it in ways that would possibly be harmful to one or both of the people in the relationship, then yes it's the healthy choice.
Believe me, in a couple of years majority of people will find this normal and you will be the bad guy if you don’t support this kind of relationship because that’s how messed up the world we live in is. 🤷♀️
yeah in the us, to my view, everyone seems butthurt about everything thats why everyone has to accept other peoples butthurtness.
does that make sense to you guys? :'D
Haha uuh no.
I just think that everyone have the right to do whatever they want as long as they don't hurt anybody or any creature.
No.
Govoris iz svog supka, mala.
I’ve yet to find a single poly relationship that didn’t consist of it’s members engaging in abuse-levels of selfishness, chronic alcohol or drug abuse, and/or severe mental illness.
That’s it, mustard biscuits. Based on your experience, mustard biscuits, they do not exist 😔
@@destinyquiroz914 Yeah….that’s what I said….”I have yet to find”……like did you think you said sum there? Lol
2:00 I see a scenario. Jerry stops financially supporting you.
Yea, I imagine you wouldn't be so keen on Joe then.
*Cough* Jerry doesn't financially support Heide *cough* she has her own practice *cough*
@@joeharrison1797 Ah yes, she's a therapist. She must do well with lines like “I’m not responsible for my partner's happiness”.
Even other people in this lifestyle are appalled by this woman.
And if you're THE Joe, then you're just as appalling as this Heidi.
Jerry needs to leave and find people who love him.
@@stoicomnivore6701 First off, if you go into therapy and say to your therapist "My partner/spouse/etc. is responsible for my happiness. Any licensed therapist will say "no, YOU are responsible for your happiness" and that is all Heide was saying.
Jerry has people that love him, we are them. Could it be possible that in a three minute clip that you aren't seeing all of our lives and how we live it? Could it be possible that you were shown a cynical slant?
@@joeharrison1797 All I see from the video is an abuse victim being consistently gaslit by the people who "love" him. I wish we get the whole cast of this video on damage control instead of just your boring ass.
@@joeharrison1797 this is word play. You are at least halfway responsible for the impact your ACTIONS have on someone. This line of thought you’re using could be used to justify anything “oh yeah I hit you but it’s not my fault you got hurt.” That’s what you’re saying.
"His loneliness is not my responsibility" ... Isn't that what a wife is kinda responsible for?
I think polyamory can work but this is poor case to proove that gretchen and jerry arent intimate its basically joe and heidi getting all the benefits
I agree it can work for many people, but Jerry seems so sad... And honestly Heidi is a bit responsible for his lonliness, they are supposed to be a team, supporting each other, there for each other, helping each other. That's what being married is about. She is letting him down. I'm all for relationships in all shapes and sizes, but this one doesn't seem like a fully happy one.
@Andrew Smith but Jerry is hopelessly in love with his wife to contemplate another woman
I don't think polygamy works.
That's nice. What makes you think polyamory works? We have a case right in front of us demonstrating it doesn't work.
Society was fun while it lasted. This is insanity.
We are witnessing the end of a great civilization.
@@robertg9278 Don’t hold your breath.
This looks more like wife-swapping than polyamory. If this was true polyamory, the others would care more about Jerry's feelings. Polyamory is about relationships, not just sex, and it should be satisfying for all involved.
I completely agree. I fear that we were shown out of context in order to generate drama that isn't there. Everyone cares about Jerry's feelings and at times we bend over backwards to make sure his needs are being met. Also, since taping Jerry has a new girlfriend and we all adore her. We are all happy, we are all good right where we are.
@@joeharrison1797 I'm really happy to hear that. Best wishes to all of you.
Heidi & Joe are in a long-term affair, so it's not wife-swapping.
"Goodnite, I can see how tired you are." You can tell that Heidi is a gaslighting, controlling narcissist from this statement alone.
Or maybe she just knows her husband well enough to know when he's falling over?
@@joeharrison1797 you’ve done Jerry dirty lad
@@joeharrison1797 make Jerry happy and leave her. You’re sucking the life out of that poor guy.
Selfish, selfish people. Someone is bound to be hurt. How about the children? Sheesh! I do t mean to be judge mental but..... yeah I do! F that! What about the dang kids people? When do they get to choose?
Judge mental is in session. All rise!
if you look at how many kids have suffered at the hands of more predictable and controlling parents - then you will realise that few parents are entirely perfect and that this relatively rather insecure set-up does provide greater freedom for kids to be themselves and example to make their own choices..
Fuckn patriarchy, .... Yeah! She’s the worst! As long as she gets her rocks off she could care less about him or the kids. As a woman, I support all of my fellow ladies, but not this.
@@weston0614 well aren't you a little ray of sunshine!
Paula Erdbeer ... 🤩 I am a mother, a wife, a sister etc. I respect Everyone. I do not respect someone who puts their physical emotions before someone else’s emotions and a child’s emotional well being.
What if polyamory feels emotionally counter-intuitive because..... it's actually a horrible idea
Poly people seem to spend so much time engaged in a never-ending PR campaign for their life-style (witness Joe Harrison's spam below) it's a wonder they ever have time for their actual relationships esp. given how much of *that* time seems to revolve around 'managing' negative feelings like loneliness and jealousy. Here's a clue: if you're in a healthy, loving relationship, you don't feel jealous and/ or lonely all the time(!)
My complaint with polyamory isn't that it's 'degenerate' or some other right-wing nonsense, it's that it disguises and rationalises manipulative relationship dynamics under a veneer of pseudo-therapeutic 'sex positivity'. It's ironic that the lady in the clip describes their clusterfuck relationship as 'non-hierarchical' considering the whole thing rests on a willed subordination of natural human emotions to the poly relationship structure. Jerry has to put time and effort into upholding and sustaining the relationship, but has to be 'responsible for his own feelings' i.e. deal with the negative consequences of his emotional investment alone, without support. This is an imbalance that is anything but non-hierarchical.
Notice how Jerry's loneliness is implicitly attributed to his own lack of emotional management, rather than proceeding from his insecure and unfulfilled position within the relationship structure (polyamory is anti-social Thatcherite individualism as applied to the romantic realm). This is manipulative bs.
For an example of the poly community's typical abuse of therapuetic jargon, see Joe Harrison's comment below in which he says that the alternative to polyamory's idealised conception of 'relationship responsibility' is co-dependency. It's not co-dependent to expect emotional support and attention from a partner. I do, however, see co-dependency in the creepy way in which Heide 'puts Jerry to bed' in the video ("Goodnight. I can see how tired you are"). If this sent off some kind of wrongness-sensor in you, it's because she's acting more like Jerry's 'mommy' than his wife. I'm not just being mean- this is significant as an example of how this relationship functions. Ask yourself, if Jerry is 'responsible for his feelings', then why does Heidi need to tell him how tired he is? Why does Joe need to inform us, again, in the comments below, that Jerry had to be reminded to 'prioritise his needs'? What is this creepy, parental tone that invariably comes up in polytalk?
Here are the wheels turning: Heidi wants Jerry to go away but has to rationalise her desire for Jerry to go to bed upstairs as JERRY'S desire to go to bed upstairs, so she TELLS him what his needs are, along with the implication that if he doesn't 'fulfill them', he's not doing a good job of 'managing the relationship' or 'doing his part'. She has to do this because polyamory works by assuming all participants are on an equal playing field and that everyone's interests co-align. Theoretically, there is space in which 'issues' can be 'dealt with and discussed' i.e. excessively talked about (going nowhere) and rationalised, however, in practise, any objection with emotional substance to it will be avoided or dismissed because it's inherently threatening to the structure and nature of the relationship itself.
If Jerry said "No, I don't want to go to bed. I want to sleep with you, my wife", what do you think would happen?
So is this a conversation you want to have or are you just espousing for the sake of espousing? If you're just here for the sound of your own voice then I'll leave it at that, but if you actually want to engage in a dialog and learn why your wheels turning example is ass backwards please, just ask.
As for poly people engaging in a never ending PR campaign...in over 800 individual comments here how many people other than myself have stepped up to defend polyamory (which makes no sense as it doesn't need defending in the first place). None? Yeah, that's the same number I got too.
@@joeharrison1797 Well if you can make the case here son, do, I would genuinely like to see your replies to the points he has raised here, if you can make points beyond conjecture, then, please do. If you could specifically answer his comment "If Jerry said "No, I don't want to go to bed. I want to sleep with you, my wife", what do you think would happen?" that would be fantastic.
I would personally respond to "It's not your turn" with it being incredibly childish and vindictive.
It seems you are committed to your commenting trend here, if my answer seems like sarcasm, forgive me, it's not, I would genuinely respond personally and positively if your response was something that made sense and was morally justifiable, I hope Jerry see's that or you tell him that a majority of the people commenting here are commenting because of concern for him and his wellbeing, I guess in our own minds, we feel the same way?
@@lazlow9640 I posted a response here two days ago is it not showing up because now I can't see it.
@@joeharrison1797 Well, we'll leave it that and continue on our paths.
@@joeharrison1797
Hi Joe. I'd be happy to engage in a dialog with you, assuming you recognise that my willingness to hear you out isn't the same thing as uncritically accepting your account of your relationship.
I made that comment about poly PR because I've noticed what could be described as a subcultural tendency within online poly communities to believe that scepticism towards polyamory is simply due to 'ignorance of the facts' which can be remedied by 'education' (often in an irritatingly cutesy, parental style).
This is a naive view of people's reasons for viewing polyamory with scepticism, which have more to do with intuition than a lack of nerdish familiarity with poly concepts and ideas. That is why I'm suspicious about your invitation for me to 'learn'. Do you want me to 'learn' the way one learns about a piece of literature or a political theory i.e. something that can be placed into a cultural context and interrogated, or do you want me to 'learn' the way a child learns the names of different animals, as a series of 'neutral' facts with no ideological content? Please think about this.
Am I the only one whose stomach churned at this?! Jerry please get some self respect and divorce her.
It's the editing. I swear, we're all doing okay.
Narcissists when they discover polyamory: 😍😍😍😍
Which one of us are you saying is the narcissist?
You, because only a narcissistic personality would spend so much time commenting to strangers about how they're not a bad person, you're obsessed.
@@lazlow9640 Seriously, it's only like five minutes a week. And I've met some really cool people here so it's worth it to me.
I hope the public reaction to this made Heidi realizes she an abusive person. But I'm not holding my breath.
It's all fun and games till Jerry shows up with a .44 magnum
Ah another murder fantasy, we'd gone almost five whole comments without one.
@@joeharrison1797 How was life in your family during the Covid pandemic Joe?
Could you blame him?
Upon watching this entire episode I just see how emotionally abusive the wife is. She speaks over her husband and speaks for him, using her therapy knowledge to speak over his emotions and articulate them for him, when really he should be choosing his own emotional vocab and speaking for himself, but that would be giving him a voice and choice; something she doesn't want him to have. He's in a situation where he is small, voiceless, vulnerable and emotionally abused. I hope he gets away from her, he sounds like a wonderful guy.
My heart is aching for Jerry 😭
Weak men is what makes this mess possible lol
She is known as Heidi on the privatesociety porn site.
@@Jenr-cw1gm Lmao Heidi belongs to the streets.
Any woman who floats an open relationship is already cheating on you and should be dumped immediately.
Not in any way true.
@@ninepillarsofsalt Hey were you the guy who advocated me killing myself? Help me understand here bud. If your opinion ends in my death, why on earth would I give a crap about your opinion?
paul Joseph watson anyone ?
No, thanks.
PJW !
PJW all the way!
PJW
Yep.
I feel sorry for Jerry
For those that don't think women are capable of significant evil this is it here.
Frank Gappa Ooh, and men are not. This Joe guy looks like salt of the earth, doesn’t he. It’s all this bitch’s whatshername fault.
@@pamcam4385 Women have always been calling men evil. It's called feminism.
Nobody truly thinks that, even if they pretend otherwise
Women are why I am not a lesbian.
Wtf has this world come to now
Just seems to me like Heide and Joe are just each others sexual play things, and Jerry and Grethen are just spare parts.
And the worst thing is there's kids involved too, it's tragic
why did Jerry say it in the third person like that
What selfish narcissism to be unwilling to compromise, to make the sacrifices that lead to maturity, deeper bonds, loyalty and deeper love. This is tragic and sickening.
What compromises do you see anyone in the video unwilling to make. From my perspective everyone in the video is making lots of compromises...
@@joeharrison1797 She explained that putting the effort to make the relationship "with one" work leads to "maturity, deeper bonds, loyalty and deeper love."
That awkward moment where you spot a past coworker and totally know who joe is. Holy shit Portland is full of nut bags. I knew he was married but damn didn’t know he was pulling this stunt.
Hey we know each other? How cool. Which job was it?
How very telling that Joe's reply totally ignored the tone of your comment. Kind of indicative of someone who would gloss over the pain at home.
@@chelseapoet3664 his comment is pretty fucked up with context.
Joe. Did you read his comment? He does not think knowing you is cool. Polyamory can be great, but not when you are actively and knowingly hurting someone and justifying it by saying "we are not responsible for his feelings". What a horrible thing to say. But I'm sure you have read all the comments
While I understand that Polyamory can work for a lot of people. It doesn't take much to see that Jerry is not at all happy. I wish he had had the strength to just leave that woman and start fresh. The pain of losing "the one you love most in the world" would have been bad, but he would have eventually healed. In the situation he is in now, it seems like constant sadness for him. Seems like he doesn't believe in himself enough to imagine he might be able to do better...
Sadly, our intention was to show that our lives are 99.999999999% the same as yours. That said we had no control over how the documentary was edited. They took 20 hours of our lives, our very normal lives, and condensed it to three minutes of cringe. I get they needed to drive drama, but sheesh!
To me, it seems like for anyone who has been single long enough to have been attracted to more than one person at a time, polyamory is a fantasy that many people have, but the ones who dabble in it would either have to find people very early in their relationships and condition themselves to accept the dynamics - friends perhaps fall into these relationships sometimes hoping to create their own “villages” (which I think is something we lack in our current relationship arrangements). But the other circumstance where polyamory is considered is in long term relationships that have started to sour or go stale in someway. If one of the two people already have another partner in mind, rather than have a deceitful and secret affair (which is far too common anyway and often completely destroys relationships), they are honest about their need to explore other relationships and give their current relationship a chance at continuing under a new circumstance that could still be beneficial to some degree, especially where children are involved and won’t be separated from one parent in the process of a true break up. Esther Perel has an interesting theory on affairs being about an individual’s need not to experience a different partner but more to experience a different side of the self, since every person you are intimate brings out a different side of yourself. I don’t think there is one person that is more compatible for us than all the others. I think each person we could potentially have a relationship with would help us grow in certain areas but not in others. We can choose to stay faithful to one person our whole lives. We can be proud of ourselves for never being tempted to stray. It depends on one's beliefs and priorities. I don’t think polyamory is for everyone but there is obviously a subculture that it could work for in some ways. It’s easy to be critical when looking at the inside of these relationships here but dissect any monogamous relationship and you’ll see similar insecurities in some of them even without that 3rd or 4th person being involved at all. I think though for polyamory to be acceptable, the conditioning and social engineering would have to start early. And it probably will complicate things even more than how they are at present. It’s tricky enough for young people these days to know what the rules are when they first start dating. You can’t assume anything anymore but you can still assume most potential partners want a degree of exclusivity. But if that changes, it will be a very tricky dating scene to navigate. I think in theory, being allowed to have a bit of whoever you want whenever you want seems attractive, but how you go about it without hurting others would be a challenge.
My perspective is you are responsible for impacting your spouses happiness. I felt so sad for Jerry watching this. I hope that they are all happy as things move forward.
Thank you Beth. Jerry has started dating since taping and his new girlfriend is adorable and we think she's great. We're all doing really well except for all the hatred pointed our direction.
Missed your reply. Thanks for the update. Happy to hear this!
Dont worry, Jerry I love you
I know, right? I want to marry him.
@@Mobik_ Well he's married and has a girlfriend since taping. You can give it a shot, but I think his dance card is pretty full.
@@joeharrison1797 aren't you married too? huh, weird.
when you can't manage to get one partner for yourself never mind multiple😹
If Heidi doesn't feel anything when her partner Jerry hurts, that is not love and they should not be together. Nobody is responsible for anyone's feelings, but when you love someone you simply want the absolute best for them.
Who says she doesn't feel anything? She feels very deeply for him...AND at the end of the day HE is responsible for his happiness. We can all help, but we can't do it for him.
Very well said.
I don't think I've ever seen a man so sad and broken who just let it all happen to him. You feel sorry for him, because he looks so sad, but you can't help thinking "grow a backbone you wimp".
How can she not see that she is abusing Jerry? Jerry didn't have the emotional strength to leave her so she has dragged him into an arrangement which benefits her and makes him suffer. She is a terrible, selfish person.
She doesn't care. She gets her new boyfriend and that's all that matters. I feel totally sick watching this video.
"I am not responsibility for Jerry's feelings"...the words of a narcissist
Shouldn't Jerry have responsibility for his own feelings??? Why would someone else be wholly responsible for MY feelings? That's just weird.
@@joeharrison1797 not wholly responsible, but also not entirely not responsible
@@FruityRonster You're exactly right. This one sentence seems to generate a lot of confusion. She was saying that she is not responsible for his happiness, literally. At the end of the day it's Jerry who needs to be responsible for it. We can all help and hopefully he adds people that bring him joy and cuts out people who don't, but in the end he's the one who has to take responsibility for it. She wasn't saying she doesn't care or that she doesn't want to make him happy, she was just literally stating that she can't make him happy if he doesn't want to be.
@@joeharrison1797 That's not true Joe. It it clear that her husband was not comfortable and was hurt by this. She chose not to care and follow her sex drive instead. Plus it seems like she manipulated him to create this situation. Essentially showing very little empathy for the person she is married to due to wanting to fulfil her sex drive. Nasty behaviour.
@@FruityRonster Well, all I can say is that we've been together for 8 years and I see Jerry on a weekly basis. There are a lot of laughs and joy that the documentary didn't show. I talk to him every week and every week he tells me he's doing well. Oh his girlfriend would tell you the same.
Under the veil of soft spoken, gentle Heide is a selfish person that lacks any empathy.
Quite the contrary she's a very sensitive, considerate person, often to her own detriment. I wish the documentary could have focused on that side of her.
Uncle Joe and Heidi a pair of low key narcissists, Joe obviously doesn’t want Heidi to divorce because then he’s gotta ditch Gretchen when Heidi wants 100% of his time and he’s a coward deep down inside who’d rather take another guys wife than deal responsibly with his own. Jerry if you’re reading this ever, light the fuse 💣 file for divorce asap . Let Uncle Joe (what’s mine is mine and what’s yours is mine too, just like Stalin) have her, you can do much better. And start getting some self-esteem, don’t let narcissists gas-light you and bully you
Joe= something stuck to my shoe that I stepped in at the dog walking park
@@adrianbehennah744 can you really hate me that much without ever having met me?
Heh "Uncle Joe" I like it. I don't want Heide to divorce, I don't want Gretchen to leave. Heide doesn't want 100% of my time. What does "dealing responsibly with my wife" mean exactly? She's a human being, not a couch.
Weird, weird, weird. Ultimately the adults have created this awful situation...it's the kids I feel sorry for.
She is known as Heidi on the privatesociety porn site
@@Jenr-cw1gm No...she is not.
Can you tell me more about that? Why exactly do you feel sorry for them?
@João Henriques let's take a look at what's really going on. Most weeks because of schedule it's easier for Heide to come to my house. I don't spend much time at their house at all. So from their daughters perspective the relationship looks a lot like her mom being out of the house one night a week. Other than that, for six days a week they are just like any other family in America. I think the snip above gives the wrong impression about how we actually live.
I believe polyamory can work but not like this. You can tell that some of relationships are full of apathy and selfishness. And maybe this two minute video wasn’t enough to fully grasp the situation, but if it’s accurate, I hope the people can tell how toxic their current situation is and get out of it.
That's an awesome observation. The documenters came at this from a mono perspective and were looking for someone who was the 'victim' (because that's what it would look like in their lives). That's the narrative they went with and they boiled down 20 hrs+ of footage to only those parts that would support the victim narrative.
@@joeharrison1797Surely, as a person who I hope is capable of empathy, you can see the pain Jerry is in. But who cares, right? Jerry is responsible for Jerry's feelings, as he seems to have been so well trained to believe. So very cold.
I just watched this and my take on the entire documentary is this - a bunch of deeply troubled and unhappy people partaking in a lifestyle that only hurts them even more. Jerry in particular, he even went as far as to say he would be liking to join his wife and the other man and she instantly shut him down which to me says she really doesn't care for him anymore but is staying for the kid and her need for validation from his desire for her.
These types of relationships are cancer. Most of these people will lose in the end. Gerry seems to have already lost. Sad that his sexually immoral wife took him and his family in this direction. I saw a child there...way to screw up a young child. How much you wanna bet that child will have relationship issues for the rest of their lives.
Don't monogamous people lose in the end? What's the divorce rate up to now?
Divorce is a victory for the idea that the two people were never meant to be together in the first place. It takes courage to face the fact you made a promise you couldn't keep. An adult will admit when they made a mistake and married someone who they couldn't fully support the needs of. A cowardly child will move the goal posts of that commitment to avoid doing the difficult thing of realizing they are hurting someone worse than they would be if they simply admitted their mistake and moved on to the person they would rather be with. You can't expect the person being hurt to think rationally. The responsibility is on the person who has decided to look elsewhere to bite the bullet and let them go. But people often lack decency, which is why they will cheat when not fully happy rather than be honest with their partner that they are interested in something different.
@@mononoaware8529 There's a lot unpack there. I agree wholeheartedly with your first three sentences. AND neither Heide & Jerry nor Gretchen & I made commitments to fidelity when we got married. You say moving the goal posts of the relationship, but the goal posts were never moved, all four of us in all two marriages have remained 100% faithful to the commitments agreed to on our wedding days. So you're point there is invalid.
The second part here is that you're assuming that any of us think we made a mistake by marrying the person that we're married to. I love G. H loves Jerry. We wouldn't change that for any reason. We also acknowledge and agree that finding someone else we fancy isn't a betrayal (it's honestly inevitable) and agree that finding out if it's real isn't a slight. Now you can say that this wouldn't work for your relationships, but you can't say that it wouldn't work for ANY relationship. We just happen to be a group of people for whom it works.
The sadness you're seeing from Jerry was crafted for you by the filming team. It's not real, it's not genuine. He is genuinely happy with his wife and his girlfriend, there is no victim and everyone is happy, why then would we want to divorce?
Imagine loving someone so much, that they feel comfortable enough to ask for a poly relationship and show zero concern for your feelings.
Everyone has been concerned with the feelings of all involved from day 1. What the documentary didn't do a good job of showing is how much time we two families spend together and how often we check in with how people are feeling.
@@joeharrison1797 the way you're turned Jerry into a 2d cut-out in every one of your responses would suggest otherwise.
Poor Jerry, and poor children, for having such an awful example of what a relationship is like.
Do the kids have an awful idea of what relationships are like? I mean between the four adults we've got three committed relationships of 8, 16 and 19 years respectively. That's not too shabby.
@@joeharrison1797 I get what you mean, but I wouldn't use those metrics as evidence of a good relationship.
The boundaries in these families are very messed up. It is true that each couple can have their own rules and arrangements, but there are many arrangements that are unworkable and a recipe for disaster.
I forgot the names in the video, but whose feelings/needs come first, the husband's or the boyfriend's? If the husband wants to sleep with his wife tonight, does he need the agreement of a committee? Not to mention that interpersonal relationships of any kind don't really follow explicit agreements: if the boyfriend (that is way more outgoing and energetic than the husband) takes charge of most situations where a male figure is required, who do you think will be seen as the legitimate authority by the kids? Who ends up being the dad there? Boundaries are everything in relationships of any kind, and here, it seems like there are purposely created grey areas to be able to bypass others opinions. If husband wants this or that from or with wife, he needs to ruin the fun of the happy couple, so he should be reasonable and put others's happiness first, right? Nonsense. In a proper relationship, where both people care about what the other thinks, one can stand his/her ground firmly and demand things, because it matters what the other thinks. One doesn't do this all the time, of course, but because there shouldn't be such a pressing need to stand up for oneself so often, if that were the case, one should reconsider if staying together is the right idea in the first place.
The moment the wife met a man she "liked" other than her husband, there were decisions to be made. Put feelings aside and stick with loving husband? Recognize that the relationship has weakened and leave husband for the new man? What she did is make up a third option, which was "not making a choice at all", and therefore "not take any responsibility at all", and what are the chances of that working out in the long run?
The best thing her husband (and the boyfriend's wife) could do is take the little self respect he has left and divorce his wife, marry a another woman that actually loves and appreciates him, and take the children with him before they are exposed to the sight of her mother's new second boyfriend.
It doesn't matter how many romantic relationships are created and how long they last if they involve people that clearly put their desire/pleasure over the feelings of their loved ones.
@@juanchitaro5380 That's a really thoughtful reply, thanks for not just yelling!
So I'm the boyfriend, Joe. My wife is Gretchen and My 'girlfriend' for lack of a better term is Heide who is married to Jerry.
To your point. When we first figured out that there was attraction 8 years ago all the adults sat down at a table together and figured it out. We checked in with EVERYONE about the relationship and how they felt. Monthly after that we had meetings with the adults to ensure that everyone was getting their needs met, and what could be done to improve schedule/attention/time with the kids/etc.
We've continued having those conversations over the years and they work well for us. We're very solid and comfortable in our boundaries. Each of us knows that we can, at any time, ask for something different.
I know the documentary wasn't interested in showing off four adults who talk through their problems, it's not very sexy and wouldn't sell well, but we are very much that.
Joe (the boyfriend)
Jerry is a handsome and sweet guy. He could do much better
that moment you have to face that the person you love the most in the world doesn't feel the same for you.
This is not a not the healthiest poly relationship.
The healthiest poly relationship will never keep up with the healthiest monogamous relationship.
@@bl-ands Why so?
@@claytongriffith8323 The issue is two-fold. The first problem is that humans are incredibly complex; due to nurture (vs nature) it would be hard to say you could even love two clones equally. One would be loved more than the other (especially over time) and this is something you'd need to confront yourself and express to them if you don't want to turn a blind eye. The second problem builds off the first problem: our most basic instinct is to survive. It is an even greater instinct than the need to procreate. For this reason we will foremost want what is best for ourselves (which is to enter a relationship with the person we are most compatible with). 2 individuals working together is the most fundamental unit that can exist without inherently introducing competition (and when you have multiple partners competing for your affection and resources you have a less healthy relationship dynamic).
I'm not saying polyamory is bad, but I am saying polyamory is not for current era humans. If a bee population or bonobos were the dominant life form then poly would be the best due to collectivism. It would require humans to either evolve or embrace transhumanism to the point of shedding our basic instincts in order for poly to surpass monogamy.
@@bl-ands I disagree it isn't basic human instinct to be monogamous, monogamy wasn't a thing for majority of human history. I don't believe that you have to love all partners equally and the same for the unit to be healthy because everyone does not serve the same purpose in the unit. And what is best for ourselves is not to limit our resources to one source, instead you obtain all the resources available to you. In your case you argue that introducing competition is harmful to the relation but "competition" is a perceived threat to the monogamous.
@@claytongriffith8323 I said that the strongest human instinct is self-preservation ( which produces monogamy, but is not in itself monogamy). You don't have to love all partners equally (although it may be hard the say that the less loved person is truly loved at all); however, you have to admit to yourself and your partners that you 'love' one less. Most poly people would not tell one of their partners that they are less valuable than another partner. If competition is not at all a threat to poly relationships then there should no problem with telling each other who is less valuable.
This seems more like two nice spouses allowing their more selfish spouses to be self-gratifying and emotionally self-centered. The only people who seem happy are the selfish two.
It might have been edited to tell that story rather than the story of four relatively well adjusted people lead normal lives. Ask yourself which you'd pay to see.
You may think you love 2 people. But in reality you don't love either of them. It's sad
“Because we are not hierarchical”
*Proceeds to speak above the rest of the group*
Can you tell me more about what that exchange meant to you?
That isn't an equal relationship. Even in polyamory, you need to find balance in everyone's needs. In this relationship, there's definitely a loser in the exchange.
I agree that the way the relationship(s) is(are) presented looks very unequal. Are you open to the idea that documentary is trying to sell a narrative that may not exist? Would it change your mind to find out that Jerry has a girlfriend?
Jerry is hurting ::(
Jerry is hanging on to Heidi any which way he can. That's no way to live. In the name of his dignity, Jerry needs to walk away. He deserves so much more than the scraps she tosses his way.
Wait , wtf, I thought it was a joke at first, laughed AF until I realized this is a real documentary...I mean I’m still laughing but for different reasons now 🤣
Nope, we're all real people.
This is why we have religion, to elevate ourselves from the dirt, to strive for a respectable existence.
Dooooooood! How many priests have raped children? Hundreds? Thousands? Religion is hardly what keeps people from doing bad things, AND I defy you to find one thing that we are doing that is 'bad'.
No problem with alternative lifestyles - just don't try to change the laws to suit your eccentricities. The law can't cater to every eccentricity.
Man...if my wife ever proposed that kind of arrangement to me she would be packing up the very same night. It's totally unacceptable, people who try to have everything very often wind up with nothing, they lose it all. One day the pressure becomes too much for their reluctant partner and then they realise how much he or she meant to them once their gone and then it's their secondary relationship that will suffer the backlash from that meltdown. One other thing...these people who try to push this lifestyle on to their significant other are 9 times out of 10 the dominant figure in the relationship and they know that they can get away with it because of one factor...fear, the fear and insecurities they inflict upon their husband or wife...that's not love. The concept they often use is the "my partner can't be expected to fullfill all my needs" crap and it is a load of crap. Who the hell told you that you have to have all your needs met, it's physically and socially impossible. Needs change, shift, evolve and are replaced all the time and if you need to have them all taken care of, you will be a very unhappy and probably lonely person. I don't have all my needs met and it's ok, I deal with it, we make a few compromise and move on and I'm very happy. It's a necessary and very often automatic response to deal with those issues that are part and parcel of our lives and we usually go through it with a smile. Nobody gets everything they want and when those people try to go down that road they spend their lives acting like 3 year olds, throwing a tantrum everytime they don't get their way...I mean, think about it...it's crazy!!!
Doth thou protest too much?
Why is everyone in these Polyamory youtube documentaries always unattractive, weird and feral looking? - there's never anyone who actually takes care an looks nice
I'm sorry we're not pretty enough for you.
Joe Harrison AHHH so you are one of them i was wonder either you are gay, in a poly relationship, or both becuase i keep seeing you pop up and now i know why, sorry man if you are in a good relationship good for you, you are in one of the few ones that actually work but you gotta understand why for a lot of people this kinda thing is bad maybe not for all parties involved but sometimes just one unhappy one (jerry) is enough if you cant see why he is unhappy you are ignorant and maybe you should open your eyes in your own relationship and see well maybe im happy but are ALL parties involved happy? you might just be the (Joe) of your relationship so of course you are happy with both your girls who love you Edit: WAIT A SECOND! you really are JOE! how did i not notice that
@@evenhartwick4422 On the one hand I'm pissed because I feel we were really misrepresented. On the other hand, man, there has been such a outpouring of support for Jerry, it's been amazing. Look, I totally get your reaction and everyone else's reaction. The story that was told, especially above, isn't our story. They left a ton of context out (and all the shots where Jerry was smiling and happy).
@@joeharrison1797 I was going to call you a Beta male but i think that would be a compliment.
@@merlinpendragon88 why do you feel the need to call me anything at all?
I think perhaps polyamory works if you're young and free living on a hippie camp, but in 'real life' it just doesn't seem ideal. Watching these two couples in this documentary just felt like watching an affair; albeit consented to by all parties. I admire poly in that the emotion we all suppress to some degree in denying extra martial relations is freed -- however there is a catch, one must then suppress feelings of jealously and hurt. Either way you cannot seem to get away from suppression and I'd take the former any day...
jelousy comes from insecurity. Resolve or more dissolve that insecurity and there is no hurt. Suppressing anything is unhealthy and dangerous, however one must understand that not all emotions are rational, or even fair to others. Questioning how you feel is a part of how you grow and develop as a person. The catch of polyamoury is that you have to face your emotional shadow. The catch of monogamy is, that whatever you represss will grow.
How Jerry isn't in prison for murdering 2 people is confusing.
It was always the bottom dregs of humanity that enter polyamorous relationships.