Patience of jobe there Gil! I think we should be clear that Dr. Esselstyn´s "paper" is not a research paper it is an editorial / opinion piece. There was no peer review. We should clearly differentiate between scientific research and opinion pieces even if the piece is written by a medical professional. Just looking at the dates of the papers he cites should ring alarm bells. 1910, 1998, 1998, 1995, 1990, 1999, 2000, 2007, 1999, 2014 (authored by Esselstyn), 1994 (authored by Esselstyn). Esselstyn sits on the advisory board of the journal that published the editorial. The studies quoted are rats, rats, monkeys, humans (18 subjects), humans (10 subjects 5 meals), humans (10 subjects) , humans (400 subjects - testing relative effect not testing lack of oil). Esselstyn's paper of 2014 had 198 participants but no control group. It was just case notes. It can't be used as evidence to support a no-oil approach over, for example, an all veggie, medium-oil approach that might have worked just as well - who knows? It is a shame as I feel that his approach probably works. It just doesn't show that other, similarly intense and supported approaches, don't work.
For the patients who did not die, it is probably irrelevant whether some oil in the diet would have given the same result. Based on the interviews I've seen, they were enjoying life again after suffering years from their disease and they even enjoyed the food on Esselstyn's protocol. For them, knowing this makes little to no difference. That said, on the big picture I agree with you. It would be great to know, can you give patients with end-stage heart disease a little less restrictive diet and get the same amazing results.
I really appreciate that you had such a respectful conversation with Dr. Esselstyn, while still gently pushing for clarification on some of his recommendations. Thoroughly enjoyed this video, look forward to the full interview.
@@mytube785 Yes, for the last 8 years. It probably saved my life. I had high coronary calcium score, overweight, high BP, high cholesterol. After 6 weeks, chole 270 to 165, BP 150/90 to 110/70, next 6 months, lost 40 lbs and stayed off 8 years, triglycerides 324 to 87, protein 10/100 to 50/100 without any supplemental protein just whole plant foods. Eat all I want, never hungry, can't believe how great I feel. Doctor says he's never seen anything like it, also nothing in medicine today can do what this diet has done for me, so just do the diet, come in once a year for a blood test. ED now half gone, GERD gone, no meds, no pins and needles in feet or hands, no more anti-depressants needed, no more depression, period. At gym on heavy rows 265 lbs for 2 sets of 5 one set of 10 reps in same session. There is only one plate left in the stack left before I max it out. 6' 1" 187 lbs. age 78. Anyone who passes judgment on this diet without looking at the results will come up mistaken. It gets 100 percent results IF and only IF you do it his way, not your version of his way. When you get this kind of results it's not like testing a drug that only gets half or a third results, this follows Baye's Theorem that states the more positive results in a row the more likely the effect is real and not chance. He's gotten 177 out of 177 in one study of 198, a few dropped out and they got 66 percent further heart attacks, strokes, deaths, while all 177 who did the diet got nothing at all further events in their heart disease cases. It's far too strong evidence to require control groups or other things. Statisticians know about this effect, amateurs don't. I figured what's the chances I'd be case 178 where it didn't work? NIL. Period. I'm delighted and recommend it highly to anyone who's needing a change. I doubt many can do it without a dire threat, but IF they can, it will "clean house" for all your health problems in all probability.
I've never seen Esselstyn debate, only preach to people to accept what he says without question. I don't think he would fair very well in a debate. When Dr. Gil gently pushed back with science, Esseslstyn really had no answers.
Who cares about a debate? That's about rhetoric and emotions. What matters is what's most likely true given the data. Never seen a debate that looked in details at what data is available and evaluate them statistically.
I doubt anyone would change their minds even then because they all do science, but very few have a scientific mindset. A clear example was the olive oil paper mentioned in the video, he didn't agree with the results but they didn't come to a conclusion where everyone agrees (which is the whole point of objective truth) and he also didn't get his name off the study (and this is something I've personally seen happen in physics research too, although over relatively smaller details). Science in the social framework of 'publish or perish' or in general do it for earning a livelihood will end up defeating the purpose of science 😢.
'Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn's studies primarily involve patients with existing coronary artery disease, often those with severe conditions who were considered beyond the help of conventional treatments'
@@geoffknox597 Don't forget the statins that nearly all the patients in both of his studies were given. To duplicate his excellent results found in those studies, you can't neglect the statins as part of the "methods".
@@geoffknox597can you demonstrate the idea that anyone can be "heart attack proof?" Any studies? If not, then let's keep exaggerated ideas to the less educated and less nuanced spaces of social media.
Plenty of studies showing the benefits of Olive oil on heart related markers. Getting fed up of all the contradictory TH-cam videos by so called doctors or doctors who are out to sell books etc. Only want to see evidence based proper research like this channel generally advocates.
Exactly. Give us a diet to maximize our healthy years. Everyone needs an income so it's like the wildwest; this channel made a video that showed oils don't increase inflammatory markers
Any scientific conversation not relying on highest quality scientific evidence but rather on personal opinions or low quality evidence is not worth time spent on it by any party involved.
Lots of gullible people look up to Esselstyn. I feel that it's important to expose his lack of rigor and professionalism for anyone that might be bamboozled, yet intellectually ingenuous enough to realize this and change their position to a stronger, more evidence-based one.
Also, now we can look back and see that thousands of people who had adhered to his protocols have had unbelievable results. Something we don't see in the medical literature otherwise and no drug even comes close to literally reversing pre-existing heart disease where people go on to live decades after diagnosis when they were told they had months to live.
I think Dr Greger has hit on nitric oxide a few times. But yeah this would be a fun one you're suggesting! The main thing, chew your grains, chew chew chew
Seems like nonsense, honestly. I'm Lebanese, and we use olive oil with everything. Everybody in my family is lean and most are healthy and live long. Nobody in my family has heart disease as far as I know, and we have a very low rate of heart attacks in Lebanon.
For the Predimed study, Seems like his point was that there was no control group on a truly low fat diet-which is what he uses to treat his usually very sick patients to come back from the brink of death
So long as you don’t compare his diet, or a diet like his (low fat) to the Mediterranean diet, you can’t say that the Mediterranean diet is the best thing out there. It’s obviously gonna be better than the junk people eat every day, but that doesn’t say much. And I say this as an oil consumer, eating nuts every day, not fearing unsaturated fats, but I think he raised some valid points.
If you are enjoying a Mediterranean diet in a Mediterranean country you are also benefitting from six weeks annual paid holiday, excellent affordable health care, unlimited paid sick leave, lengthy maternity leave and many other benefits that Americans see as communism. The diet is just part of a much wider lifestyle that is less likely to produce heart disease.
I think most people would agree that there comes a point, where optimizing every single detail in an already healthy diet pattern just takes away from the essential joy of eating - at least to some extent. There preponderence of data shows benificial effects of extra virigin olive oil consumption across multiple health markers and outcoimes. Even if the PREDIMED data could be reproduced with longer follow up periods and a stronger protocols (let's not forget that the initial PREDIMED trial got retracted due to randomization issues and protocol deviations) - we are propably talking about miniscule effects anyway.
I don't think the evidence supports this Doctor's position regarding olive oil, fish, nuts, etc. In addition, compliance to his diet is not sustainable for most people.
@@raybar1915 For healthy peoples (not struggling with severe heart disesases like dr Esselstyn's patients), a predominantly whole food plant based is a good thing. Maximizing plant foods, minimizing or avoid animal food and ultra-processed food for extended lifespan in good health.
Correct. The evidence does not support his positions on those foods. Needless suffering. I regret buying my father Dr. Esselstyn's book years ago. He creates a false barrier for entry for those who might otherwise choose to eat a healthy plant based diet. I know that I could never stick to this Spartan diet plan long term.
All these foods, especially EVOO and fish are the cornerstone of the Mediterranean diet. Which is proven to be the healthiest diet on Earth both in smaller scale studies, long term observational (population) studies and RCTs. No doctor or nutritionist will have a different take on this except dr. Esselstyn.
I feel that if there's a benefit, it's marginal or small at the very best. There hasn't been much proof yet that the digestive system struggle with unsaturated fats in moderate quantity.
His work seems to be exploratory. As Dr. Gil would say, a source of hypotheses, but by not yet worth recommending based on the totality of evidence. His 2014 study of 200 participants is a simple pre-post. And his latest 2019 paper titled "Reversal of Pulmonary Hypertension, Diabetes, and Retinopathy after Adoption of a Whole Food Plant-Based Diet" considers a single patient as a case study. No RCTs. He also seems to avoid engaging with the vast literature showing the benefits of olive oil for CVD. Respect to Dr Gil for keeping it civil. But this sounded more like listening to a health influencer than a trained physician.
I've been wanting someone to challenge Esselstyn on his anti-oil stance! Thank you for posting this. Hopefully we gain some insight and clear answers here.
Essylstein is unaware of the studies showing that olive oil triggers the longevity sirtuins. The Tuscans, who eat olive oil to the exclusion of butter and cheese, have a low obesity rate of 4% versus the U.S. rate of 44%. Additionally, Essylstein's heart disease reversal study has never been reproduced. Why not? If a new study confirmed his results, it would change the world.
I was thinking the same - I don't care if it gives you an extra 10 years, when he listed the foods not to be included, I'd rather go 10 years sooner and enjoy my food. Enjoyment of food is such a big part of life, I'm not about to restrict myself to that level, just to live longer as an old decrepit guy that shuffles around the house munching on vinegar drizzled kale.
@@noggintubeI think only eating cereals is more detrimental to your mental health than eating nuts an avocado even if he allegedly assured is good for atherosclerosis
Are any of his recs evidence based? “X compound injures endothelium”. In vitro? Ok, does this translate into real life? Is this just his opinion? Does FMD inhibition have a causative effect on heart disease? Do we know that for a fact?
On the one hand, I think the majority of people could not stick to this diet in the long run, on the other hand if someone is suffering from heart disease and is willing to make the sacrifice, Esselstyn’s diet might extend their lives &/or make their heart disease less onerous
@@berrychaney70I haven’t added up the % but, you’re probably right. My guess is that you need to be OCD to follow Esselstyn’s diet… and want to live no matter what!
I suffer from heart disease and had a triple heart bypass and I dont think I could do this diet. I did vegan for 2 years and it was way too restrictive and Esselstyn diet is even stricter. What I did was I eliminated all the main culprits like smoking, drinking, and I then seriously reduced my processed food intake like from about 98% right down to about 5% per day. I eat 90% plant based or whole foods with about 10% made up up of a little animal products like egg whites, chicken breast, sardines. I might eat a bit of junk once in a blue moon but not truckloads 7 days a week like I used too prior to my downfall. I also do very important stuff that you don't hear the good doctor talk about which is a lot of exercise and watch my stress levels. It far from near Esselstyn recommendations, but coming from a guy who used to smoke 80 a day, never exercised andcused to eat truck loads of processed junk food for years.....its still a significant turnaround.
I would take his diet over the SAD diet loaded with processed food any day. Yes, it would extend life for many. But, the idea that those with heart disease should avoid olive oil, nuts, seeds and avocados is bonkers. Needless suffering. Those foods have been shown to improve the life expectancy of those with heart disease.
But is it like something else that is the cause, like is he promoting foods high in polyphenols and antioxidants combined with other factors like bodyfat reduction is the reason and has nothing to do with what he thinks is the reason
I find it very difficult to understand what he is saying. The communication is lacking coherence, and what about all the usual references to the actual scientific papers?
If our purpose in life is beyond eating and drinking, Dr Esselstyn's diet is completely sensible. In science, we appreciate differences in opinions. Halfway across the world from Cleveland, I'm thankful for Esselstyn's work. Thanks for this video.
This man changed my life - totally reversed all of my cholesterol issues, all inflammatory factors were reversed & now sit at levels of a healthy 20 year old (I’m 65) - my weight went from 96Kilos to 77kilos - & this benefit has been the case over to past 3 years & I’ve never been so healthy - thank you Dr Esselstyn.
Well, I just watched someone (Dr Ford Brewer) say that eggs are good for your heart health. Now, I'm back to being confused. Why are there so many conflicting views out there?! I feel like the stress and pressure of what to eat and what not to eat are what is going to kill me. With that said, I am still going to stick to mostly WFPB, moderate carbs (I'm prediabetic so I'llhave some whole grains for fiber), heart healthy seed and vegetable oils, and minimal saturated fats (from chicken and fish). I want to be happy and enjoy my life while I still have it!
Dr Esseltyn’s comments about the negative effects of fluoride, which is a popular theme amongst those focused on Nitric oxide, has me wondering whether there is any peer reviewed research on the effects of fluoridation on all cause mortality or even cardiovascular health. When I checked Pub Med I could only find articles from the 40-50 years ago that found no effect. (Others looked at cancer with similar conclusion) but if the oral microbiom is so critical and fluoride is so deadly to it, shouldn’t we be able to see a rise in cardiac events after a city introduces fluoride? I would think there would be a number of studies. Maybe I used wrong search terms?
The contradictory nature of this kind of VOD actually stresses me out lol However, thank you for giving space to dissenter voices and engaging him in such a constructive manner. So rare in this age of click-bate gotcha's and censorship
Prepared and rehearsed I’ve heard it many times and he knows it like the alphabet by now this is his field to persuade for his opinion not saying it’s bad or good just when you see all the variety hard to dispute
I assume we can all agree that Dr. Esselstyn's diet is very restrictive. What about its effectiveness? Does it really reduce cardiovascular events significantly? How about preventing events in people without a history of heart disease? If there is solid data supporting his claims, the diet is at least worth considering, even if whole food groups are being excluded.
I imagine that Dr. Edelson might not be as informed on the most recent information out there. He’s old, which is great that he’s lived that long, but this is an older bunch of information from his past which is good. But I’m not sure it’s right for everybody for sure. But he’s been successful with it and he’s an old man and he probably feels he’s alive because of it. But I know people in their 90s who don’t do that and are alive so I don’t know. We’re each individual. Since we are each so different, I imagine your reactions to all of these things are going to be different anyway who knows. Thank you for sharing this.
Hello from Greece! With the best virgin oil in the world! There hasn't been a family for about 3 thousand years that doesn't have oil in its diet! Surely the nature and fruit of Olive will never harm the world! Come to Ikaria to meet the oldest people in the world!
Esselstyn is 90, and seems in amazing shape. But beyond him personally and other low-n observations, are there any studies about the effects of the Esselstyn diet?
He doesn't look or sound as good as my 89 y.o. mother who stays active, eats what she likes, and drinks black coffee 24/7. There is way more to health and happiness than chewing leafy greens 6 times a day.
Main question should be not whether it injures endothelial cells or affects FMD,but rather health outcomes with long term supplementation. And we have plenty of evidence for that. He was rightfully outvoted in 2017 paper.
To Esselstyn's followers, if he speaks something it becomes fact. No evidence needed. He never provided any evidence that olive oil, nuts, seeds or avocados injure the endothemium.
@@demonfedor3748 Might as well stop exercising because it: increases blood pressure, increased mTOR activation, generates oxidative stress, causes inflammation, leads to muscle damage. That is exactly why we look at outcomes and not mechanistic data.
I'm saddened when I see criticism of the most proven healthy eating pattern in history -- the Mediterranean Diet. Thank you Dr. Gil, for patiently and kindly pointing out many logical counter points to this man's flawed reasoning and opinions.
@@k.h.6991Case series studies are low quality evidence full of confounders. As compelling as 5 star reviews on pp enlargement supplements website ( +3 inches in 2 weeks type).
@@k.h.6991with people that is already sick so... Most of the audience is preventing not reversing damage (and as this channel usually says a couple of patients it's just anecdotal)
I know nuts are very caloric dense. I eat some walnuts after a good healthy meal, as desert. Not instead of the meal. Very easy to stick to 3-5 walnuts/day as I eat them when I'm already full. No addiction, if I choose to have none, even for a long time - no problem. They're not addictive, just not satiating by themselves.
Dr Esselstyn seems like a joy to spend time around. One problem I note with a lot of advocates of various diets is that they do not take into account how difficult they are to adhere to. Maybe my heart attack risk would be lower if I cut the consumption of all those foods he cautions against to the minimum, but frankly I do not want to live that way and it's idiocy to think that diet is sustainable for most people living in the real world. There also just seem to be a bunch of basic flaws in Dr Esselstyn's logic? His critique of the Mediterranean Diet study around 9:30 shows an extremely poor understanding of scientific experimental design. He claims that the study shows that the Mediterranean Diet caused heart disease, but that is not a logical conclusion based on the evidence.
I cannot be convinced that nixing nuts and seeds from the diet is going to improve anyone's health. I can see limiting oil if one needs to prioritise fibre, protein and micronutrients if their appetite is low or they need to drastically reduce caloric intake, but limiting nuts and seeds? Let me dip into the cashew butter jar and laugh.
@@FreedomPhilosophyTV Most diets (95%) fail due to lack of adherence, if people's taste buds would adjust that easily, one would expect most diets to be easy to adhere to in the long term.
When was the last time people robbed a store in search for nuts to have their nut addiction fix? And where are the people that go into withdrawal from not getting their nuts? I really don't know how professionals throw around this "addiction" thing like it relates to everything just because when someone says it it sounds interesting.
While I can see a point to be made about roasted flavoured nuts being easy to over eat, not once have I ever over eaten plain roasted or raw nuts. Even if mixed in with some dried fruit like in a trail mix, I (a person prone to using food as a dopamine fix) would never eat more than a couple small handfuls. I've had the same 1kg bag of raw walnuts in my fridge for probably over a year. And I really do enjoy walnuts! But if high fat whole foods really were "addictive" my poor dopamine deprived brain would have no problems sticking to a healthy plant based diet.
PREACH! I enjoy nuts tremendously (usually raw nuts, sometimes dry roasted), and definitely would eat more (I average 1 1/2 ounces) if caloric balance wasn't a thing, but I find those two small serves a very satisfying snack or meal enhancer and then I don't go back to the cupboard for more. I don't exclude oil but I use it strategically, favoring fat from nuts, avocado's, seafood and whole olives. Even if you were on the high end of consumption with two ounces, that is, what, 340/390 calories? Most people can fit that into their caloric budget. Sure, it leaves less room for discretionary/processed food but I can't call that an awful loss.
Not really! I prepare food in the traditional Indian way, using all the rich spices but without any oils. It's absolutely delicious and something I could eat forever.
So are there any studies on Dr. Esselstyns diet plan? Or low fat diets? (Not following his recommendations, but still reducing apparently 'unhealthy oils'). Because what I fail to see, is health outcome data that shows that low fat consumption is beneficial.
Always appreciate the respectful tone but always asking for clarification and explanation of evidence or lack thereof. I am in the camp that says everyone human has a unique response to nutrition but obviously for Dr. E and his patients the strict elimination of any foods with fat is critical for reversing significant heart disease. If that is what it takes to prolong life and a satisfactory life, then why not. It's like saying I really like smoking but it's worth quitting. ON the other hand, everyone expert and influencer agree on getting the processed crap and excess sugar out of our diets.
Question.. what about people who have Crohn’s disease and plant diet creates aching joints gut problems, diarrhea, heart palpitations etc. and stopped eating plants and it goes way ? What’s you conclusion ?
hi, we don't have a specific video on IBD yet but we have a few on GI and food intolerances, e.g. th-cam.com/video/BnDUM0SScWo/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/9Pj5StKlYXI/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/FdQexSS0lOg/w-d-xo.html the bottomline is these conditions are sometimes reversible with careful reintroduction, other times an underlying condition needs to be addressed first. the key here is to find a sustainable, health-promoting diet the person can stick to long term
@@NutritionMadeSimple I have had Crohn's for forty years with all the negative symptoms that accompany that. eating kale is a no no for me. it literally feels like a toxin to me and eating beans and plants and all the healthy stuff dang near killed me. i am tolerating low amounts of romaine, iceberg, asparagus, onions and peas. i been trying to do a reset to see if this is possible. but i definitely feel better on meat. and low carb diet has taken away a low sugar crash and fatigue that is associated like hypoglycemic symptoms. its like i can switch between fat and carb burning efficiently and feel way better
Endothelial health, crucial for cardiovascular function, benefits from a diet rich in antioxidants, omega-3 fatty acids, whole grains, and healthy fats like those found in olive oil and nuts. This diet helps protect the endothelium-the thin cell layer lining blood vessels-by reducing inflammation and oxidative stress. Regarding nasal breathing which allows for the intake of nitric oxide (NO) produced in the nasal passages, which helps dilate blood vessels and improve oxygen uptake. In contrast, mouth breathing does not provide significant nitric oxide, leading to lower levels of this important compound in the body. Imagine, 1mg of NO per day just for nasal breathing,
Does your guest's diet imply we don't need any kind of fat intake? Seems like he recommends against all sources of both animal and plant fat. Is that healthy? Would we make our own fat in sufficient quantities if we ate his diet strictly?
For someone who has genetics against them and already dealing with high risk factors his diet may be appropriate but for the average person that is not a very sustainable diet. That's cutting out too much. Wasn't there a study done showing that 80+% of vegans can't sustain the diet. It would not surprise me if carnivores had the same issue.
Well when you’ve spent decades treating patients who were considered beyond hope and sent home to die and managed to significantly extend their lives, it’s natural to have confidence in your methods. I believe that most will not need to be as strict as he suggests, but again, he deals with patients who are often on the brink of death. His approach reflects the gravity of their situations.
@Scott-et4kd , I see comments here saying well he's a doctor, so we must respect his assertions, but that's just an argument from authority . Esselstyn has a hypothesis about what maybe a good diet for the heart with his anecdotal evidence and now needs to do the research to prove it is.
Thanks for the video! Would it be possible for you to go through and maybe add some accompanying commentary like you did at the end to add some context to some of the things said? I love your videos but I am not familiar with a lot of the things discussed (FMD, the impact on endothelial cells, etc) and don’t have a lot of time to go looking around to figure it out. A small amount of context would you really help. Thank you again!!
I'm on board with Dr. Richard Johnson and Dr. Robert Lustig. Thanks for this. You did an excellent job interviewing him. My respect and appreciation to both of you.
Olá! Sou um espectador assíduo e gosto bastante da maneira como aborda os temas, de forma sistemática e científica, sempre realçando os dados científicos mais recentes. Esta entrevista para mim diz-me que há um receio em “magoar” o tecido endotelio, pior ainda com a redução do ácido nítrico com a idade. No entanto, como noutros casos, por vezes é necessário haver estimulação dos tecidos para que se deem outros processos, como por exemplo o stress causado pelo exercício de alta intensidade intermitente promove o desenvolvimento e manutenção dos capilares das extremidades. Não creio que eliminar todos os alimentos que o Dr. falou sejam uma solução equilibrada para uma pessoa normal, mas sim uma solução para alguém já com problemas cardiovasculares. O corpo humano é um sistema dinâmico que precisa de ser estimulado, caso contrário atrofia. O “gatekeeping” existe e pode ser detrimental para a ciência. Se disse alguma barbaridade, por favor corrija-me. Bom trabalho e tudo a correr bem!
So we. A basically have whole grains and green leafy veggies with beans for lentils. He stopped me cold when he said no peanut butter because that’s one of my go-to sources of plant based proteins. Let me go get some water and chomp on some arugula. Ah. So satisfying.
of course Dr Esselstyn is very intelligent and I'm sure he is sincere about what he's saying but I'm done watching nutritional information. These experts, in my opinion, have done far more to confuse people than to help them. As a side note, where does he get off saying nuts are "addicting", I have never found that. Well good luck to everyone and enjoy your day.
Insulin resistance, Mg deficiency, CRP, Inflammation, glycation, fructation, etc. Consider serrapeptase for its ability to mitigate vascular inflammation. ELISA was used to measure the levels of interleukins, whereas immunohistochemistry was carried out for the evaluation of MCP-1 expression. SRP treatment significantly suppressed vascular inflammation in BALB/c mice. Mechanistic studies demonstrated that SRP significantly inhibited the LPS-induced production of proinflammatory cytokines such as IL-2, IL-1, IL-6, and TNF-α in aortic tissue.
What would happen if you add that amount of greens to other diets? I’m wondering if eating greens with balsamic vinegar 6 times a day produces enough nitric oxide to improve almost any diet…including the Mediterranean diet. Eating that much greens would also have the effect of pushing out other foods that are less advantageous…❤
Interesting on an academic level but once you remove all of the foods he suggests only a tiny fraction of people will be able to follow this eating plan for a lifetime. Love the channel but, imo, this is completely impractical for most people
Great video. For me personally so far, the issue is moot since i do not use any oil. Not because I avoid it, but I wouldn't know what to use it for and it would significantly increase my intake of energy, the very opposite of what I need to keep my weight stable after losing well over 65 kg. Looking forward to the entire video!
Yes, I also keep hearing people talk about oils and can't wrap my head around for what they need such huge quantities on a daily basis. Sure a tbsp a day to give flavour to some vegetables but that it.
The Jury may still be out re Olive Oil but he is sure right about Nitric Oxcide there is a ton of high quality evidence to support that. Yes a big thanks for looking into this more closely I will sure be interested in any follow-up. As always Gil you are so respectful of the opinions of others such a contrast to many other high grade influencers so great job.
After my massive heart attack, I devoured Esselstyn, Campbell (The China Study), Oz, Gundry, Ornish, to name a few, and I came away believing that I will do what works for me, and if I have another heart attack, so be it. So much contradiction. I do watch Nutrition Made Simple, on a regular basis, and have learned allot. Thank you.
Very interesting!! 😊 i dabbled in this diet & it is very difficult. I was really hungry but had alot of energy..wouldn't work for me cooking for the family.
You must make sure you eat food with complete protein. Like Beans AND Rice, Quinoa. exc. Zero hunger. Even Nutritional Yeast is a complete Protein. Who wudda thunk?
I don´t know, if this is correct, but i always thought "satiety" comes from the latin word "satis", which means "enough". So if you reach satiety, you have enough (of anything you require), and you will not long for anything else. And yes- you can feel satiated with this form of eating. Appetite - i assume - is just, what you have taught your body, to crave for, when it lacks certain nutrients. You can reeducate it. If - with respect to other health issues than heart-health - Esselstyns diet is healthy, i don´t know.
Great job, Gill, I get why you didn't want to push back too much to turn the conversation into an argument. Divine patience skills. Now if you're feeling masocistic, try and talk to quacks like that mucusless diet guy that recommends people eat green clay to suck out the toxic "mucukus" in their intestines or that crazy guy who shouts about how calories aren't real or whatever :)
I suppose I have a very different view of epidemiology / population studies than most people, but when I hear anyone postulate anything like what is set out here, one of my first thoughts and questions is "show me the population outcomes where this is the normative lifestyle." Assuming that he had rigorous RCTs and their replication proven for every point made, which I don't believe is the case, I want to see where this is sustainably practiced and what the outcomes are in all respects decades later. We know from a massive data set what the outcomes of the traditional diets that are common along the Mediterranean typically look like. I need to see at least something similar for any claim of contradiction and superiority made, especially with such certainty.
What I like about the Mediterranean diet is it as much about lifestyle as food. Whole delicious foods, lots of exercise and fresh air, time with family and friends. It's what makes life enjoyable. Seems to work well for people in places like Icaria. If a diet sucks the joy out of life, what's the point? I'm not chewing greens six times a day just to live until 90.
Yes! The Mediterranean diet is just as healthy as a 100% plant based diet. I am vegan for the animals and the environment. I would love to see more vegans in the world; but I don’t lie to people. A limited amount of animal based foods in the diet is just as healthy. Also, there is no strong evidence that plant oils are unhealthy. Some (like olive oil) even have shown benefits. EVIDENCE AND SCIENCE IS WHAT WE ALL SHOULD BE FOLLOWING!
I'm glad Dr. Gil did this interview. It shows people with high credentials and making wild claims without research and push it on TH-cam and selling books can't be trusted. Even if this is the ideal diet, who is going to benefit from it. Surly not depressed people.
Oh you mean this guy's book titled "Prevent And Reverse Heart Disease: The Revolutionary, Scientifically Proven, Nutrition-Based Cure" might be a bit of a stretch scientifically?! No way! Here is an excerpt I found on Amazon: "A person who maintains blood cholesterol under 150 mg/dL for a lifetime will not develop coronary artery disease-even if he or she smokes, has a family history of coronary disease, suffers from hypertension, and is obese!" What a claim! I'm assuming he has a LOT of evidence and studies to back up that claim right? That quote is so incredibly and objectively direct. I know I'm being a tad unreasonable here but I find this sort of thing incredibly destructive for most people to hear and read. It feels no better than some random youtuber pushing Keto as the cure-all for weight loss or whatever (not trying to attack Keto here, just using it as an example).
I do and it's great! You underestimate hedonistic adaptation. Remember, there are people who eat shark fins or snails or fish eggs and call them delicacies. Humans can get used to--and even begin to prefer--almost anything.
Only somebody that absolutely, positively had to. I've cut out all pasta, which I love; 95% of potatoes (I was never a sweet potato fan); anything with sugar in it - primarily snacks, but also dairy. Okay, milk. I still eat cheese. I also have a craving for a specific brand and type of chip about 4 times a year, and have been substituting salads for french fries. Oh, and 99% of cereals. Once in a great while I break down and buy some cereal. The most difficult thing is to watch hidden sugars. Those are the ingredients that end in -ose. Fructose, sucrose, and so on. Nearly everything has hidden sugars (or we wouldn't eat them) and they don't have to report said hidden sugars. Some things have a LOT of hidden sugars. I think all we can do is the best we can do.
I think one of the key questions that is rarely addressed in this kind of conversation, and the one question of most interest to those humans out in the wild who are interested in putting this advice into practice, is the question of essential fats. If a person blindly follows Dr. Esselstyn's advice, and perhaps even avoids nuts altogether (although, like he says in his book, 6 walnut halves, or 1 tbsp of flax seeds or whatever, a day, is okay if you have no evidence of heart disease), then that person can, at least according to cronometer, easily hit only, say, 10% of his essential omega 6 fat requirements. This is the main puzzle to me when it comes to very low fat diets. On the one hand, they say that eating a diet of whole foods that excludes fats can meet all your needs, on the other hand it's pretty hard doing that by eating, say, a 2000 kcal diet. Even if you include 6 walnut halves, that would only give you 27% of your daily needs, at least that's what cronometer shows in my case. And what if your body malabsorbs oils, even slightly?
This guy sounds...."nuts"! 😉 But all joking aside, I'm not familiar with the deep mechanistic theory behind how the endothelial blood vessels wall works. Sounds like this man believes, that anything that can enter the endothelial, is by definition unhealthy......so, I would appreciate some data that verifies this claim! 😉
This man is a genius. Reversing major health issues with this diet alone is a huge breakthrough for nutritional advice. For the average person without the major health issues a lot of this information is still valid. Cutting the animal proteins and dairy is a no brainer.
so most other scientists disagree with him, as shown by that paper he brought up where he couldn't convince the co-authors not to recommend olive oil one problem though is that I'm guessing most studies probably compare to a typical american/western diet, where it sounds like he is recommending an atypical diet where you cut out a lot of food groups that typical people eat. so the effects of different interventions might be different if your diet is completely different. Still I'm not really convinced I should believe this guy over what most scientists say, especially because I am probably closer to a typical diet than to his diet, and I am resistant to cutting out stuff such as meat, dairy and fat, so I won't do it without seeing particularly strong evidence
Practically Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn says that Italians and Spanish people should be already dead of CHD because of *olive oil* ... Also there is olive oil and *EVO* !... C'mon! Instead I truly appreciated Dr. Carvalho neutrai stand, respect and analysis.
I'm just trying to make sense of the bit at the end. Does this mean that med diet is better for heart disease than SAD but leaves open the possibility that more could be done, such as what Esselstyn is proposing?
The problem with Dr. Esselstyn’s diet as with any diet, is that one size doesn’t fit all. I very much respect him and the successes he’s had, but truly, the Mediterranean diet is far better suited to a large portion of the population. Any strict will be too difficult to live with outside your own home.
His "paper" was an editorial, and cherry picked data starting with usual historical reference of no value, and wildly incomplete, using low quality data, to be kind about it. When you're telling people olive oil is unhealthy and Med Diet is disease causing, you can safely be ignored. It's easy to understand why the average person is so confused when a med pro offers advice that poor, not supported by the vast data to the contrary.
With your help and Dr Esselstyn’s, the greatest debate brought by Predimed is finally settled. Congratulations on your attitude of revisiting the study and adding critique - some critique that I had already heard by word of mouth but never could get to check the study. Because I trust your abilities to verify of the study, I no longer will consider this line of critique of the Predimed “word of mouth”.
His diet is pretty close to McDougall's starchivore diet but the diet he outlined was for his very sick patients and is a bit more strict than McDougall because their health is so precarious.
Patience of jobe there Gil! I think we should be clear that Dr. Esselstyn´s "paper" is not a research paper it is an editorial / opinion piece. There was no peer review. We should clearly differentiate between scientific research and opinion pieces even if the piece is written by a medical professional. Just looking at the dates of the papers he cites should ring alarm bells. 1910, 1998, 1998, 1995, 1990, 1999, 2000, 2007, 1999, 2014 (authored by Esselstyn), 1994 (authored by Esselstyn). Esselstyn sits on the advisory board of the journal that published the editorial. The studies quoted are rats, rats, monkeys, humans (18 subjects), humans (10 subjects 5 meals), humans (10 subjects) , humans (400 subjects - testing relative effect not testing lack of oil). Esselstyn's paper of 2014 had 198 participants but no control group. It was just case notes. It can't be used as evidence to support a no-oil approach over, for example, an all veggie, medium-oil approach that might have worked just as well - who knows? It is a shame as I feel that his approach probably works. It just doesn't show that other, similarly intense and supported approaches, don't work.
Very interesting. Thx.
I mean look how well he has aged. I guess the more strict you are the better outcomes you'll have
For the patients who did not die, it is probably irrelevant whether some oil in the diet would have given the same result. Based on the interviews I've seen, they were enjoying life again after suffering years from their disease and they even enjoyed the food on Esselstyn's protocol. For them, knowing this makes little to no difference.
That said, on the big picture I agree with you. It would be great to know, can you give patients with end-stage heart disease a little less restrictive diet and get the same amazing results.
Well structured comment, nice job. Thanks!
@@sonicwave02genetics and gut biome also affect the impacts of different foods and combinations of foods on each person's system
I really appreciate that you had such a respectful conversation with Dr. Esselstyn, while still gently pushing for clarification on some of his recommendations. Thoroughly enjoyed this video, look forward to the full interview.
Anyone here tried Dr. Caldwell Esseltyn’s diet before? Comments?
@@mytube785 Yes, for the last 8 years. It probably saved my life. I had high coronary calcium score, overweight, high BP, high cholesterol. After 6 weeks, chole 270 to 165, BP 150/90 to 110/70, next 6 months, lost 40 lbs and stayed off 8 years, triglycerides 324 to 87, protein 10/100 to 50/100 without any supplemental protein just whole plant foods. Eat all I want, never hungry, can't believe how great I feel. Doctor says he's never seen anything like it, also nothing in medicine today can do what this diet has done for me, so just do the diet, come in once a year for a blood test. ED now half gone, GERD gone, no meds, no pins and needles in feet or hands, no more anti-depressants needed, no more depression, period. At gym on heavy rows 265 lbs for 2 sets of 5 one set of 10 reps in same session. There is only one plate left in the stack left before I max it out. 6' 1" 187 lbs. age 78. Anyone who passes judgment on this diet without looking at the results will come up mistaken. It gets 100 percent results IF and only IF you do it his way, not your version of his way. When you get this kind of results it's not like testing a drug that only gets half or a third results, this follows Baye's Theorem that states the more positive results in a row the more likely the effect is real and not chance. He's gotten 177 out of 177 in one study of 198, a few dropped out and they got 66 percent further heart attacks, strokes, deaths, while all 177 who did the diet got nothing at all further events in their heart disease cases. It's far too strong evidence to require control groups or other things. Statisticians know about this effect, amateurs don't. I figured what's the chances I'd be case 178 where it didn't work? NIL. Period. I'm delighted and recommend it highly to anyone who's needing a change. I doubt many can do it without a dire threat, but IF they can, it will "clean house" for all your health problems in all probability.
@@mytube785 Ughh, no, not me.
The problem is that no one EVER brings all these contradictory experts together on one platform to debate. Everyone is doing a monologue separately.
I've never seen Esselstyn debate, only preach to people to accept what he says without question. I don't think he would fair very well in a debate. When Dr. Gil gently pushed back with science, Esseslstyn really had no answers.
Discussions don't sell books. You have to pick one absolute statement and then run with it.
We love our monoculture
Who cares about a debate? That's about rhetoric and emotions.
What matters is what's most likely true given the data. Never seen a debate that looked in details at what data is available and evaluate them statistically.
I doubt anyone would change their minds even then because they all do science, but very few have a scientific mindset. A clear example was the olive oil paper mentioned in the video, he didn't agree with the results but they didn't come to a conclusion where everyone agrees (which is the whole point of objective truth) and he also didn't get his name off the study (and this is something I've personally seen happen in physics research too, although over relatively smaller details). Science in the social framework of 'publish or perish' or in general do it for earning a livelihood will end up defeating the purpose of science 😢.
If nuts, avocado and olive oil is bad for you, then i am going down with that ship.
I'm on board with you
Same
Man just made me eat a bowl of pistachios for lunch 😂
What this conversation left out is that Dr. Esselstyn is speaking of and to people with heart disease, not of and to healthy people.
I'm there too !
'Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn's studies primarily involve patients with existing coronary artery disease, often those with severe conditions who were considered beyond the help of conventional treatments'
?
@@superior96meaning that his diet is a last resort for high risk patients, not necessarily relevant for the healthy population.
Meaning if you want to make yourself heart attack proof, then his is the diet to follow.
@@geoffknox597 Don't forget the statins that nearly all the patients in both of his studies were given.
To duplicate his excellent results found in those studies, you can't neglect the statins as part of the "methods".
@@geoffknox597can you demonstrate the idea that anyone can be "heart attack proof?" Any studies? If not, then let's keep exaggerated ideas to the less educated and less nuanced spaces of social media.
Plenty of studies showing the benefits of Olive oil on heart related markers. Getting fed up of all the contradictory TH-cam videos by so called doctors or doctors who are out to sell books etc. Only want to see evidence based proper research like this channel generally advocates.
feel the same
Yeah! Same 💪💝
Yeah he lost all credibility when he .mentioned olive oil was bad for you
Exactly. Give us a diet to maximize our healthy years. Everyone needs an income so it's like the wildwest; this channel made a video that showed oils don't increase inflammatory markers
It all depends on your starting point. These effects are not absolutes. The context is important.
Any scientific conversation not relying on highest quality scientific evidence but rather on personal opinions or low quality evidence is not worth time spent on it by any party involved.
It can show people who are not deep in the science world what is high quality and what is not. So I think such talks are helpful 🍀
Lots of gullible people look up to Esselstyn. I feel that it's important to expose his lack of rigor and professionalism for anyone that might be bamboozled, yet intellectually ingenuous enough to realize this and change their position to a stronger, more evidence-based one.
I agree, but this isn't that.
@@dj.h7424 It's definitely not.
Also, now we can look back and see that thousands of people who had adhered to his protocols have had unbelievable results. Something we don't see in the medical literature otherwise and no drug even comes close to literally reversing pre-existing heart disease where people go on to live decades after diagnosis when they were told they had months to live.
I know someone who fell from an olive tree and was seriously hurt while gathering olives to make olive oil. Clearly olive oil is dangerous.
Yep, and I was rear-ended at a stop light while on my way for a date. Therefore dating is dangerous. Stay safe fellas!
...not the oil, but the tree 😊
Almost as dangerous as falling out of a coconut tree. 🙃
@@markcurtis2931 or having a coconut fall on your head!
@@leer.2137 which came first, the olive or the tree?
So now Gil, we need an explanation of the relevance of FMD and endothelial cells and nitric oxide.
I think Dr Greger has hit on nitric oxide a few times. But yeah this would be a fun one you're suggesting! The main thing, chew your grains, chew chew chew
Just eat more salads, but without oils, pretty much what he is saying.
Seems like nonsense, honestly. I'm Lebanese, and we use olive oil with everything. Everybody in my family is lean and most are healthy and live long. Nobody in my family has heart disease as far as I know, and we have a very low rate of heart attacks in Lebanon.
For the Predimed study, Seems like his point was that there was no control group on a truly low fat diet-which is what he uses to treat his usually very sick patients to come back from the brink of death
Yes. If I recall correctly there was only a 2-3% difference in fat percentage.
We need to see a study truly comparing these diets
And wasn't the PREDIMED study retracted?
So long as you don’t compare his diet, or a diet like his (low fat) to the Mediterranean diet, you can’t say that the Mediterranean diet is the best thing out there. It’s obviously gonna be better than the junk people eat every day, but that doesn’t say much. And I say this as an oil consumer, eating nuts every day, not fearing unsaturated fats, but I think he raised some valid points.
If you are enjoying a Mediterranean diet in a Mediterranean country you are also benefitting from six weeks annual paid holiday, excellent affordable health care, unlimited paid sick leave, lengthy maternity leave and many other benefits that Americans see as communism. The diet is just part of a much wider lifestyle that is less likely to produce heart disease.
I think most people would agree that there comes a point, where optimizing every single detail in an already healthy diet pattern just takes away from the essential joy of eating - at least to some extent. There preponderence of data shows benificial effects of extra virigin olive oil consumption across multiple health markers and outcoimes. Even if the PREDIMED data could be reproduced with longer follow up periods and a stronger protocols (let's not forget that the initial PREDIMED trial got retracted due to randomization issues and protocol deviations) - we are propably talking about miniscule effects anyway.
I don't think the evidence supports this Doctor's position regarding olive oil, fish, nuts, etc. In addition, compliance to his diet is not sustainable for most people.
@@raybar1915 For healthy peoples (not struggling with severe heart disesases like dr Esselstyn's patients), a predominantly whole food plant based is a good thing. Maximizing plant foods, minimizing or avoid animal food and ultra-processed food for extended lifespan in good health.
Correct. The evidence does not support his positions on those foods. Needless suffering. I regret buying my father Dr. Esselstyn's book years ago. He creates a false barrier for entry for those who might otherwise choose to eat a healthy plant based diet. I know that I could never stick to this Spartan diet plan long term.
All these foods, especially EVOO and fish are the cornerstone of the Mediterranean diet. Which is proven to be the healthiest diet on Earth both in smaller scale studies, long term observational (population) studies and RCTs. No doctor or nutritionist will have a different take on this except dr. Esselstyn.
I feel that if there's a benefit, it's marginal or small at the very best. There hasn't been much proof yet that the digestive system struggle with unsaturated fats in moderate quantity.
I agree, possibly just a good jump start for people that have severe CVD to get back on track.
The Mediterranean diet has stood the test of time for a reason: It works
The people in the BlueZones must be hardy folk. They have managed to survive the menacing Mediterranean diet.
They've been measured to show the ones who ate the most whole food vegan- live longer
Yes! And bucket loads of olive oil.
Yep, survived all the way to 100 and beyond.
Eating nuts while I watch this.
😂
Hopefully not rancid nuts.
His work seems to be exploratory. As Dr. Gil would say, a source of hypotheses, but by not yet worth recommending based on the totality of evidence.
His 2014 study of 200 participants is a simple pre-post. And his latest 2019 paper titled "Reversal of Pulmonary Hypertension, Diabetes, and Retinopathy after Adoption of a Whole Food Plant-Based Diet" considers a single patient as a case study. No RCTs.
He also seems to avoid engaging with the vast literature showing the benefits of olive oil for CVD.
Respect to Dr Gil for keeping it civil. But this sounded more like listening to a health influencer than a trained physician.
Good thing people in doctor Gil comment section were well informed. Scientific evidence >> Anecdotal, always.
I've been wanting someone to challenge Esselstyn on his anti-oil stance! Thank you for posting this. Hopefully we gain some insight and clear answers here.
Essylstein is unaware of the studies showing that olive oil triggers the longevity sirtuins. The Tuscans, who eat olive oil to the exclusion of butter and cheese, have a low obesity rate of 4% versus the U.S. rate of 44%. Additionally, Essylstein's heart disease reversal study has never been reproduced. Why not? If a new study confirmed his results, it would change the world.
I don't know if his diet would actually make me live longer but it would sure as hell feel like it!
I was thinking the same - I don't care if it gives you an extra 10 years, when he listed the foods not to be included, I'd rather go 10 years sooner and enjoy my food. Enjoyment of food is such a big part of life, I'm not about to restrict myself to that level, just to live longer as an old decrepit guy that shuffles around the house munching on vinegar drizzled kale.
@@noggintubeyou'll not only die 10 years sooner but the last 10-30 years will miserably disease ridden
I'm with you
@@noggintube you will not only lose 10 years, but the last 10 to 40 years will be miserably disease ridden
@@noggintubeI think only eating cereals is more detrimental to your mental health than eating nuts an avocado even if he allegedly assured is good for atherosclerosis
Are any of his recs evidence based?
“X compound injures endothelium”. In vitro? Ok, does this translate into real life? Is this just his opinion?
Does FMD inhibition have a causative effect on heart disease? Do we know that for a fact?
I honestly think he heard it once in the 90s and never bothered to seek evidence..
On the one hand, I think the majority of people could not stick to this diet in the long run, on the other hand if someone is suffering from heart disease and is willing to make the sacrifice, Esselstyn’s diet might extend their lives &/or make their heart disease less onerous
That guy just knocked out 90% of all foods ! oh what did we do in the world before youtube and internet
@@berrychaney70I haven’t added up the % but, you’re probably right. My guess is that you need to be OCD to follow Esselstyn’s diet… and want to live no matter what!
I suffer from heart disease and had a triple heart bypass and I dont think I could do this diet. I did vegan for 2 years and it was way too restrictive and Esselstyn diet is even stricter.
What I did was I eliminated all the main culprits like smoking, drinking, and I then seriously reduced my processed food intake like from about 98% right down to about 5% per day. I eat 90% plant based or whole foods with about 10% made up up of a little animal products like egg whites, chicken breast, sardines. I might eat a bit of junk once in a blue moon but not truckloads 7 days a week like I used too prior to my downfall.
I also do very important stuff that you don't hear the good doctor talk about which is a lot of exercise and watch my stress levels. It far from near Esselstyn recommendations, but coming from a guy who used to smoke 80 a day, never exercised andcused to eat truck loads of processed junk food for years.....its still a significant turnaround.
I would take his diet over the SAD diet loaded with processed food any day. Yes, it would extend life for many. But, the idea that those with heart disease should avoid olive oil, nuts, seeds and avocados is bonkers. Needless suffering. Those foods have been shown to improve the life expectancy of those with heart disease.
But is it like something else that is the cause, like is he promoting foods high in polyphenols and antioxidants combined with other factors like bodyfat reduction is the reason and has nothing to do with what he thinks is the reason
I find it very difficult to understand what he is saying. The communication is lacking coherence, and what about all the usual references to the actual scientific papers?
If our purpose in life is beyond eating and drinking, Dr Esselstyn's diet is completely sensible. In science, we appreciate differences in opinions. Halfway across the world from Cleveland, I'm thankful for Esselstyn's work. Thanks for this video.
This man changed my life - totally reversed all of my cholesterol issues, all inflammatory factors were reversed & now sit at levels of a healthy 20 year old (I’m 65) - my weight went from 96Kilos to 77kilos - & this benefit has been the case over to past 3 years & I’ve never been so healthy - thank you Dr Esselstyn.
Congrats, that is awesome!
@@VFNVFNVFN very kind of you - thank you🙏
Well, I just watched someone (Dr Ford Brewer) say that eggs are good for your heart health. Now, I'm back to being confused. Why are there so many conflicting views out there?! I feel like the stress and pressure of what to eat and what not to eat are what is going to kill me.
With that said, I am still going to stick to mostly WFPB, moderate carbs (I'm prediabetic so I'llhave some whole grains for fiber), heart healthy seed and vegetable oils, and minimal saturated fats (from chicken and fish). I want to be happy and enjoy my life while I still have it!
Dr Esseltyn’s comments about the negative effects of fluoride, which is a popular theme amongst those focused on Nitric oxide, has me wondering whether there is any peer reviewed research on the effects of fluoridation on all cause mortality or even cardiovascular health. When I checked Pub Med I could only find articles from the 40-50 years ago that found no effect. (Others looked at cancer with similar conclusion) but if the oral microbiom is so critical and fluoride is so deadly to it, shouldn’t we be able to see a rise in cardiac events after a city introduces fluoride? I would think there would be a number of studies. Maybe I used wrong search terms?
The contradictory nature of this kind of VOD actually stresses me out lol
However, thank you for giving space to dissenter voices and engaging him in such a constructive manner. So rare in this age of click-bate gotcha's and censorship
I had gotten elevated blood pressure, elevated heart rate, and elevated blood sugar watching this video. Aren't those risk factors for heart disease?
Thanks for this informative video.
Are you in favour of olive oil after the discussion with De Esselstyn?
A conversation with dr Joel Fuhrman would be quite interesting.
He memorized vegetables and recited their names quickly. The man must be a genius.
Lol
I was watching the video at two time speed so that part was a blast.
Prepared and rehearsed I’ve heard it many times and he knows it like the alphabet by now this is his field to persuade for his opinion not saying it’s bad or good just when you see all the variety hard to dispute
When will you be posting the full interview? Thanks!
Thanks again. Waiting for the full interview.
I assume we can all agree that Dr. Esselstyn's diet is very restrictive. What about its effectiveness? Does it really reduce cardiovascular events significantly? How about preventing events in people without a history of heart disease? If there is solid data supporting his claims, the diet is at least worth considering, even if whole food groups are being excluded.
I imagine that Dr. Edelson might not be as informed on the most recent information out there.
He’s old, which is great that he’s lived that long, but this is an older bunch of information from his past which is good.
But I’m not sure it’s right for everybody for sure.
But he’s been successful with it and he’s an old man and he probably feels he’s alive because of it.
But I know people in their 90s who don’t do that and are alive so I don’t know.
We’re each individual.
Since we are each so different, I imagine your reactions to all of these things are going to be different anyway who knows.
Thank you for sharing this.
Hello from Greece! With the best virgin oil in the world! There hasn't been a family for about 3 thousand years that doesn't have oil in its diet! Surely the nature and fruit of Olive will never harm the world! Come to Ikaria to meet the oldest people in the world!
Esselstyn is 90, and seems in amazing shape. But beyond him personally and other low-n observations, are there any studies about the effects of the Esselstyn diet?
Maybe he has great genes?
He doesn't look or sound as good as my 89 y.o. mother who stays active, eats what she likes, and drinks black coffee 24/7. There is way more to health and happiness than chewing leafy greens 6 times a day.
@@desertdweller8520 That's certainly a possibility.
All restrictive diets outperform the standard American diet. If you do any of these and add proper exercise, most people would live to 90+.
What exactly does he mean by “injures endothelial cells”? Seems like he is talking about something else other than FMD?
Main question should be not whether it injures endothelial cells or affects FMD,but rather health outcomes with long term supplementation. And we have plenty of evidence for that. He was rightfully outvoted in 2017 paper.
To Esselstyn's followers, if he speaks something it becomes fact. No evidence needed. He never provided any evidence that olive oil, nuts, seeds or avocados injure the endothemium.
@@demonfedor3748 Might as well stop exercising because it: increases blood pressure, increased mTOR activation, generates oxidative stress, causes inflammation, leads to muscle damage. That is exactly why we look at outcomes and not mechanistic data.
I'm saddened when I see criticism of the most proven healthy eating pattern in history -- the Mediterranean Diet. Thank you Dr. Gil, for patiently and kindly pointing out many logical counter points to this man's flawed reasoning and opinions.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, I'll wait to see it.
The results he gets with cardiovascular patients are truly extraordinary.
@@k.h.6991 That's anecdotal. There is no evidence that he would not have the same results, or better, if they consumed nuts, seeds and olive oil.
@@k.h.6991Case series studies are low quality evidence full of confounders. As compelling as 5 star reviews on pp enlargement supplements website ( +3 inches in 2 weeks type).
@@k.h.6991with people that is already sick so... Most of the audience is preventing not reversing damage (and as this channel usually says a couple of patients it's just anecdotal)
@@k.h.6991 what about normal lean healthy active people?
Nuts are addictive; so is ice cream. Choose your addictions wisely.
Why not have no addictions? Seems like the healthier choice
I don’t eat ice cream very often, but when I do, I make sure to put nuts on it
I eat a handful of nuts a day at lunchtime, and I have the means to eat them all day long but I don't. hmm addictive my arse
@@rdmckeever7645 i’m addicted to kale
I know nuts are very caloric dense. I eat some walnuts after a good healthy meal, as desert. Not instead of the meal. Very easy to stick to 3-5 walnuts/day as I eat them when I'm already full. No addiction, if I choose to have none, even for a long time - no problem. They're not addictive, just not satiating by themselves.
Dr Esselstyn seems like a joy to spend time around. One problem I note with a lot of advocates of various diets is that they do not take into account how difficult they are to adhere to. Maybe my heart attack risk would be lower if I cut the consumption of all those foods he cautions against to the minimum, but frankly I do not want to live that way and it's idiocy to think that diet is sustainable for most people living in the real world. There also just seem to be a bunch of basic flaws in Dr Esselstyn's logic? His critique of the Mediterranean Diet study around 9:30 shows an extremely poor understanding of scientific experimental design. He claims that the study shows that the Mediterranean Diet caused heart disease, but that is not a logical conclusion based on the evidence.
No oils, avocados or nuts? No fats at all? Chewing leafy greens six times a day? Maybe a healthy, but surely a boring diet.
I cannot be convinced that nixing nuts and seeds from the diet is going to improve anyone's health. I can see limiting oil if one needs to prioritise fibre, protein and micronutrients if their appetite is low or they need to drastically reduce caloric intake, but limiting nuts and seeds? Let me dip into the cashew butter jar and laugh.
You can´t avoid fats completely. If i remember correctly, he assumes his patients to have sth like 9% of calories coming from fat.
Not really, our senses are plastic and just rewrite eventually to like whatever we mostly eat.
All those anti nutrients consumed.
@@FreedomPhilosophyTV Most diets (95%) fail due to lack of adherence, if people's taste buds would adjust that easily, one would expect most diets to be easy to adhere to in the long term.
ALL foods contain a MIXTURE of deleterious and beneficial ingredients. The idea is to consume the ones that have MORE benefits than risks.
When was the last time people robbed a store in search for nuts to have their nut addiction fix? And where are the people that go into withdrawal from not getting their nuts? I really don't know how professionals throw around this "addiction" thing like it relates to everything just because when someone says it it sounds interesting.
While I can see a point to be made about roasted flavoured nuts being easy to over eat, not once have I ever over eaten plain roasted or raw nuts. Even if mixed in with some dried fruit like in a trail mix, I (a person prone to using food as a dopamine fix) would never eat more than a couple small handfuls. I've had the same 1kg bag of raw walnuts in my fridge for probably over a year. And I really do enjoy walnuts! But if high fat whole foods really were "addictive" my poor dopamine deprived brain would have no problems sticking to a healthy plant based diet.
PREACH! I enjoy nuts tremendously (usually raw nuts, sometimes dry roasted), and definitely would eat more (I average 1 1/2 ounces) if caloric balance wasn't a thing, but I find those two small serves a very satisfying snack or meal enhancer and then I don't go back to the cupboard for more. I don't exclude oil but I use it strategically, favoring fat from nuts, avocado's, seafood and whole olives.
Even if you were on the high end of consumption with two ounces, that is, what, 340/390 calories? Most people can fit that into their caloric budget. Sure, it leaves less room for discretionary/processed food but I can't call that an awful loss.
The problem witn nuts is when they are salted, its the salt that is addictive.
His diet is the most depressing thing I ever heard
It’s for people who already have atherosclerosis and are facing surgery or have even had grafts that have failed.
He is a true hero.
Hes like "yeah if you dont eat anything your food will not kill you"
That being said, i’m gonna add some more leafy greens snacks throughout the day. But I drizzled olive oil on it 🤫😱😱😱🤭🤭
Not really! I prepare food in the traditional Indian way, using all the rich spices but without any oils. It's absolutely delicious and something I could eat forever.
My first thought 😧
So are there any studies on Dr. Esselstyns diet plan? Or low fat diets? (Not following his recommendations, but still reducing apparently 'unhealthy oils'). Because what I fail to see, is health outcome data that shows that low fat consumption is beneficial.
Always appreciate the respectful tone but always asking for clarification and explanation of evidence or lack thereof. I am in the camp that says everyone human has a unique response to nutrition but obviously for Dr. E and his patients the strict elimination of any foods with fat is critical for reversing significant heart disease. If that is what it takes to prolong life and a satisfactory life, then why not. It's like saying I really like smoking but it's worth quitting. ON the other hand, everyone expert and influencer agree on getting the processed crap and excess sugar out of our diets.
You were so respectful in this.
God bless you You handled it well.
Question.. what about people who have Crohn’s disease and plant diet creates aching joints gut problems, diarrhea, heart palpitations etc. and stopped eating plants and it goes way ? What’s you conclusion ?
hi, we don't have a specific video on IBD yet but we have a few on GI and food intolerances, e.g.
th-cam.com/video/BnDUM0SScWo/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/9Pj5StKlYXI/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/FdQexSS0lOg/w-d-xo.html
the bottomline is these conditions are sometimes reversible with careful reintroduction, other times an underlying condition needs to be addressed first. the key here is to find a sustainable, health-promoting diet the person can stick to long term
@@NutritionMadeSimple I have had Crohn's for forty years with all the negative symptoms that accompany that. eating kale is a no no for me. it literally feels like a toxin to me and eating beans and plants and all the healthy stuff dang near killed me. i am tolerating low amounts of romaine, iceberg, asparagus, onions and peas. i been trying to do a reset to see if this is possible. but i definitely feel better on meat. and low carb diet has taken away a low sugar crash and fatigue that is associated like hypoglycemic symptoms. its like i can switch between fat and carb burning efficiently and feel way better
Jesus Christ. You think all the plants are the problem??? It's obviously a specific ingredient. Stop being reactionary and try a elimination diet.
I thought he was gonna tell us to become breatharians
@@abramjones9091 breathing injures endothelial cells!
but oxygen contributes to free radical production 😩 i’m gonna try out the be-deadatarian diet will lyk how it goes
Naw. You can still have water and arugula. Cheers.
Endothelial health, crucial for cardiovascular function, benefits from a diet rich in antioxidants, omega-3 fatty acids, whole grains, and healthy fats like those found in olive oil and nuts. This diet helps protect the endothelium-the thin cell layer lining blood vessels-by reducing inflammation and oxidative stress. Regarding nasal breathing which allows for the intake of nitric oxide (NO) produced in the nasal passages, which helps dilate blood vessels and improve oxygen uptake. In contrast, mouth breathing does not provide significant nitric oxide, leading to lower levels of this important compound in the body. Imagine, 1mg of NO per day just for nasal breathing,
Does your guest's diet imply we don't need any kind of fat intake? Seems like he recommends against all sources of both animal and plant fat. Is that healthy? Would we make our own fat in sufficient quantities if we ate his diet strictly?
There are fats in fruits vegetables grains and beans. He also says in his book to take a tablespoon of flax or chia
No problem with giving up olive oil, but giving up nuts and avocado is the final boss for me.
I always thought I was doing myself a favor eating an egg and half an Hass Avocado daily
For someone who has genetics against them and already dealing with high risk factors his diet may be appropriate but for the average person that is not a very sustainable diet. That's cutting out too much. Wasn't there a study done showing that 80+% of vegans can't sustain the diet. It would not surprise me if carnivores had the same issue.
Comes out the gate with a ton of assertions
Well when you’ve spent decades treating patients who were considered beyond hope and sent home to die and managed to significantly extend their lives, it’s natural to have confidence in your methods. I believe that most will not need to be as strict as he suggests, but again, he deals with patients who are often on the brink of death. His approach reflects the gravity of their situations.
Well, assertions have truth value, so you can refute them with a valid argument. Got one?
@@Scott-et4kd that which can be asserted without evidence can be refuted without evidence
@@MichaelHorstmann ...uh-huh. "Hitchens' Razor."
@Scott-et4kd , I see comments here saying well he's a doctor, so we must respect his assertions, but that's just an argument from authority .
Esselstyn has a hypothesis about what maybe a good diet for the heart with his anecdotal evidence and now needs to do the research to prove it is.
Thanks for explaining the Predimed Trial's design and interpreting the conclusions. This has helped to illucidate Dr. Esselstyn's viewpoint.
Thanks for the video! Would it be possible for you to go through and maybe add some accompanying commentary like you did at the end to add some context to some of the things said? I love your videos but I am not familiar with a lot of the things discussed (FMD, the impact on endothelial cells, etc) and don’t have a lot of time to go looking around to figure it out. A small amount of context would you really help. Thank you again!!
I'm on board with Dr. Richard Johnson and Dr. Robert Lustig. Thanks for this. You did an excellent job interviewing him. My respect and appreciation to both of you.
Olá! Sou um espectador assíduo e gosto bastante da maneira como aborda os temas, de forma sistemática e científica, sempre realçando os dados científicos mais recentes.
Esta entrevista para mim diz-me que há um receio em “magoar” o tecido endotelio, pior ainda com a redução do ácido nítrico com a idade. No entanto, como noutros casos, por vezes é necessário haver estimulação dos tecidos para que se deem outros processos, como por exemplo o stress causado pelo exercício de alta intensidade intermitente promove o desenvolvimento e manutenção dos capilares das extremidades. Não creio que eliminar todos os alimentos que o Dr. falou sejam uma solução equilibrada para uma pessoa normal, mas sim uma solução para alguém já com problemas cardiovasculares. O corpo humano é um sistema dinâmico que precisa de ser estimulado, caso contrário atrofia.
O “gatekeeping” existe e pode ser detrimental para a ciência.
Se disse alguma barbaridade, por favor corrija-me.
Bom trabalho e tudo a correr bem!
Nice video and interview. Have you done a video on how fat and oil effects cancer growth?
So we. A basically have whole grains and green leafy veggies with beans for lentils. He stopped me cold when he said no peanut butter because that’s one of my go-to sources of plant based proteins.
Let me go get some water and chomp on some arugula.
Ah. So satisfying.
of course Dr Esselstyn is very intelligent and I'm sure he is sincere about what he's saying but I'm done watching nutritional information. These experts, in my opinion, have done far more to confuse people than to help them. As a side note, where does he get off saying nuts are "addicting", I have never found that. Well good luck to everyone and enjoy your day.
@@rokmin8550 I think he want to say that, usually, peoples eat nuts that contains also oil and salts, so it is more easy to consume in excess.
roasted and salted nuts are very addictive.
What do you say to all the EVIDENCE contradicting Dr Essylston's notion that ALL oils, including the virgin olive variety, are bad?
Well put on this one Gil.
Insulin resistance, Mg deficiency, CRP, Inflammation, glycation, fructation, etc. Consider serrapeptase for its ability to mitigate vascular inflammation.
ELISA was used to measure the levels of interleukins, whereas immunohistochemistry was carried out for the evaluation of MCP-1 expression. SRP treatment significantly suppressed vascular inflammation in BALB/c mice.
Mechanistic studies demonstrated that SRP significantly inhibited the LPS-induced production of proinflammatory cytokines such as IL-2, IL-1, IL-6, and TNF-α in aortic tissue.
What would happen if you add that amount of greens to other diets? I’m wondering if eating greens with balsamic vinegar 6 times a day produces enough nitric oxide to improve almost any diet…including the Mediterranean diet. Eating that much greens would also have the effect of pushing out other foods that are less advantageous…❤
Can’t wait for the full interview!
Should we supplement with ‘DHA’ 🤔
No, watch videos on VegSource channel about that.
Interesting on an academic level but once you remove all of the foods he suggests only a tiny fraction of people will be able to follow this eating plan for a lifetime. Love the channel but, imo, this is completely impractical for most people
do you have a video on circadian rhythms where you explain whether meal timing works or not?
Great video. For me personally so far, the issue is moot since i do not use any oil. Not because I avoid it, but I wouldn't know what to use it for and it would significantly increase my intake of energy, the very opposite of what I need to keep my weight stable after losing well over 65 kg.
Looking forward to the entire video!
Well done on maintaining such a substantial weight loss.
Yes, I also keep hearing people talk about oils and can't wrap my head around for what they need such huge quantities on a daily basis. Sure a tbsp a day to give flavour to some vegetables but that it.
@@pedro.almeida Indeed, are these people holding olive-oil drinking parties or something?
The Jury may still be out re Olive Oil but he is sure right about Nitric Oxcide there is a ton of high quality evidence to support that. Yes a big thanks for looking into this more closely I will sure be interested in any follow-up. As always Gil you are so respectful of the opinions of others such a contrast to many other high grade influencers so great job.
He lost credibility when he signed onto a paper he secretly disagreed with. Zero integrity.
After my massive heart attack, I devoured Esselstyn, Campbell (The China Study), Oz, Gundry, Ornish, to name a few, and I came away believing that I will do what works for me, and if I have another heart attack, so be it. So much contradiction. I do watch Nutrition Made Simple, on a regular basis, and have learned allot. Thank you.
So what did you decide works for you?
Very interesting!! 😊 i dabbled in this diet & it is very difficult. I was really hungry but had alot of energy..wouldn't work for me cooking for the family.
You must make sure you eat food with complete protein. Like Beans AND Rice, Quinoa. exc. Zero hunger. Even Nutritional Yeast is a complete Protein. Who wudda thunk?
Is this a diet or a sentence?
It's a reminder that flavor is not necessarily nutrition...
@@JappaKneads I think spices are allowed on his diet
I don´t know, if this is correct, but i always thought "satiety" comes from the latin word "satis", which means "enough". So if you reach satiety, you have enough (of anything you require), and you will not long for anything else. And yes- you can feel satiated with this form of eating. Appetite - i assume - is just, what you have taught your body, to crave for, when it lacks certain nutrients. You can reeducate it.
If - with respect to other health issues than heart-health - Esselstyns diet is healthy, i don´t know.
A sentence ends with a period, this diet never ends...
Great job, Gill, I get why you didn't want to push back too much to turn the conversation into an argument. Divine patience skills. Now if you're feeling masocistic, try and talk to quacks like that mucusless diet guy that recommends people eat green clay to suck out the toxic "mucukus" in their intestines or that crazy guy who shouts about how calories aren't real or whatever :)
I suppose I have a very different view of epidemiology / population studies than most people, but when I hear anyone postulate anything like what is set out here, one of my first thoughts and questions is "show me the population outcomes where this is the normative lifestyle." Assuming that he had rigorous RCTs and their replication proven for every point made, which I don't believe is the case, I want to see where this is sustainably practiced and what the outcomes are in all respects decades later. We know from a massive data set what the outcomes of the traditional diets that are common along the Mediterranean typically look like. I need to see at least something similar for any claim of contradiction and superiority made, especially with such certainty.
What I like about the Mediterranean diet is it as much about lifestyle as food. Whole delicious foods, lots of exercise and fresh air, time with family and friends. It's what makes life enjoyable. Seems to work well for people in places like Icaria.
If a diet sucks the joy out of life, what's the point? I'm not chewing greens six times a day just to live until 90.
Yes! The Mediterranean diet is just as healthy as a 100% plant based diet. I am vegan for the animals and the environment. I would love to see more vegans in the world; but I don’t lie to people. A limited amount of animal based foods in the diet is just as healthy. Also, there is no strong evidence that plant oils are unhealthy. Some (like olive oil) even have shown benefits. EVIDENCE AND SCIENCE IS WHAT WE ALL SHOULD BE FOLLOWING!
I'm glad Dr. Gil did this interview. It shows people with high credentials and making wild claims without research and push it on TH-cam and selling books can't be trusted. Even if this is the ideal diet, who is going to benefit from it. Surly not depressed people.
Oh you mean this guy's book titled "Prevent And Reverse Heart Disease: The Revolutionary, Scientifically Proven, Nutrition-Based Cure" might be a bit of a stretch scientifically?! No way! Here is an excerpt I found on Amazon:
"A person who maintains blood cholesterol under 150 mg/dL for a lifetime will not develop coronary artery disease-even if he or she smokes, has a family history of coronary disease, suffers from hypertension, and is obese!"
What a claim! I'm assuming he has a LOT of evidence and studies to back up that claim right? That quote is so incredibly and objectively direct. I know I'm being a tad unreasonable here but I find this sort of thing incredibly destructive for most people to hear and read. It feels no better than some random youtuber pushing Keto as the cure-all for weight loss or whatever (not trying to attack Keto here, just using it as an example).
He's right in making nitric oxide the central issue. Ever more specialists are also doing this.
Nitric oxide is not the central issue. It's a fact.
@@JeffC-fq1be ...Let's see here: Do I believe a blustering nobody, or Nobel Prize winners? Gee, that's a tough one. (.. hiccup.) How old are you, son?
@@Scott-et4kd I make it a point to not get into a war of wits with an unarmed adversary.
What about humming while you eat nuts?
That's not how science works. It's never about personalities. It's about data. Be careful
Thanks for another video. Even IF he's correct who could, or would want to, live with that diet ?
Me not 🤘
I do and it's great! You underestimate hedonistic adaptation.
Remember, there are people who eat shark fins or snails or fish eggs and call them delicacies. Humans can get used to--and even begin to prefer--almost anything.
Only somebody that absolutely, positively had to. I've cut out all pasta, which I love; 95% of potatoes (I was never a sweet potato fan); anything with sugar in it - primarily snacks, but also dairy. Okay, milk. I still eat cheese. I also have a craving for a specific brand and type of chip about 4 times a year, and have been substituting salads for french fries. Oh, and 99% of cereals. Once in a great while I break down and buy some cereal.
The most difficult thing is to watch hidden sugars. Those are the ingredients that end in -ose. Fructose, sucrose, and so on. Nearly everything has hidden sugars (or we wouldn't eat them) and they don't have to report said hidden sugars. Some things have a LOT of hidden sugars.
I think all we can do is the best we can do.
I would and I do. I see absolutely no reason to use any oil. It makes everything greasy and taste worse. It makes washing dishes more work. Bwerk.
Actually, you get used to it! I'm as happy now with my food as I was before the change. I know, hard to believe but it's true. 🤷♂
I think one of the key questions that is rarely addressed in this kind of conversation, and the one question of most interest to those humans out in the wild who are interested in putting this advice into practice, is the question of essential fats. If a person blindly follows Dr. Esselstyn's advice, and perhaps even avoids nuts altogether (although, like he says in his book, 6 walnut halves, or 1 tbsp of flax seeds or whatever, a day, is okay if you have no evidence of heart disease), then that person can, at least according to cronometer, easily hit only, say, 10% of his essential omega 6 fat requirements. This is the main puzzle to me when it comes to very low fat diets. On the one hand, they say that eating a diet of whole foods that excludes fats can meet all your needs, on the other hand it's pretty hard doing that by eating, say, a 2000 kcal diet. Even if you include 6 walnut halves, that would only give you 27% of your daily needs, at least that's what cronometer shows in my case. And what if your body malabsorbs oils, even slightly?
Most breads/ bagels etc have oil in them..unless you buy Ezekiel brand or make your own...at least in the USA.
Thanks for the clarification at the end. Is it likely / possible that a very low fat vegan diet as suggested by Dr Esselstyn is still superior?
So, a diabetic who smokes but is put on a Mediterranean diet or consumes olive oil and/or nuts can still have a major cardiac event. What a surprise!
This guy sounds...."nuts"! 😉
But all joking aside, I'm not familiar with the deep mechanistic theory behind how the endothelial blood vessels wall works.
Sounds like this man believes, that anything that can enter the endothelial, is by definition unhealthy......so, I would appreciate some data that verifies this claim! 😉
This man is a genius. Reversing major health issues with this diet alone is a huge breakthrough for nutritional advice.
For the average person without the major health issues a lot of this information is still valid. Cutting the animal proteins and dairy is a no brainer.
so most other scientists disagree with him, as shown by that paper he brought up where he couldn't convince the co-authors not to recommend olive oil
one problem though is that I'm guessing most studies probably compare to a typical american/western diet, where it sounds like he is recommending an atypical diet where you cut out a lot of food groups that typical people eat. so the effects of different interventions might be different if your diet is completely different. Still I'm not really convinced I should believe this guy over what most scientists say, especially because I am probably closer to a typical diet than to his diet, and I am resistant to cutting out stuff such as meat, dairy and fat, so I won't do it without seeing particularly strong evidence
Practically Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn says that Italians and Spanish people should be already dead of CHD because of *olive oil* ... Also there is olive oil and *EVO* !... C'mon! Instead I truly appreciated Dr. Carvalho neutrai stand, respect and analysis.
I love dr Esselstyn!
Also dr Michael Greger and prof T Colin Campbell . Maybe you can interview them too?
I'm just trying to make sense of the bit at the end. Does this mean that med diet is better for heart disease than SAD but leaves open the possibility that more could be done, such as what Esselstyn is proposing?
The problem with Dr. Esselstyn’s diet as with any diet, is that one size doesn’t fit all. I very much respect him and the successes he’s had, but truly, the Mediterranean diet is far better suited to a large portion of the population. Any strict will be too difficult to live with outside your own home.
Can you do a video on the benefits of tahini?
His "paper" was an editorial, and cherry picked data starting with usual historical reference of no value, and wildly incomplete, using low quality data, to be kind about it. When you're telling people olive oil is unhealthy and Med Diet is disease causing, you can safely be ignored. It's easy to understand why the average person is so confused when a med pro offers advice that poor, not supported by the vast data to the contrary.
With your help and Dr Esselstyn’s, the greatest debate brought by Predimed is finally settled. Congratulations on your attitude of revisiting the study and adding critique - some critique that I had already heard by word of mouth but never could get to check the study. Because I trust your abilities to verify of the study, I no longer will consider this line of critique of the Predimed “word of mouth”.
So he prefers starchivore diet?
Potato,rice,beans ,fruits and vegetables?
His diet is pretty close to McDougall's starchivore diet but the diet he outlined was for his very sick patients and is a bit more strict than McDougall because their health is so precarious.
Bread and cereal also.
Simple carbs and fructose all day... is a bold move, Cotton. Let's see if it works out.