Typhoon Flak Damage
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- Work started off with the need to confirm a few measurements to aid in the ordering of wing spar material for JP843, while disassembling the crash recovered torsion box, I stumbled across some significant pre-crash damage to the main spar that may have caused this Typhoon to crash.
typhoonlegacy....
For all of the extra details, shop updates and interactive forums (or just to see our episodes early and commercial free), please consider supporting the project by subscribing to our paid channel (link above), every penny goes directly into the airworthy rebuild of Hawker Typhoon JP843!
Hawker Typhoon JP843 is a British designed aircraft of the Second World War, originally intended as a fighter / interceptor, but ultimately ending up excelling as a ground attack aircraft. The Typhoon was the Royal Air Force's ( RAF ) first 400mph fighter, and although it had troubled development in its early years (partially due to the massive Napier Sabre sleeve valve engine that had been pushed into service), it came to be one of the premier ground attack aircraft of the war, scourge of the Wehrmacht and the Luftwaffe alike; excelling through D-Day, the Normandy campaign, and the Allied advance through Europe and VE Day.
While there were many nationalities of pilots and crew involved in Typhoon operations, the primary operators of the Hawker Typhoon were:
Royal Air Force ( RAF )
Royal Canadian Air Force ( RCAF )
Royal New Zealand Air Force ( RNZAF )
Royal Australian Air Force ( RAAF )
Hawker Typhoon JP843 served with 197 Squadron RAF, 198 Squadron RAF, and 609 Squadron RAF between September of 1943 and July of 1944. She was lost, along with her pilot, Peter March Price, RNZAF on the 27th of July 1944 in the battlefields of France.
The development of the Typhoon led to the Hawker Tempest V, which outperformed the Typhoon. Due to this, and the end of World War II, the Hawker Typhoon was quickly scrapped and replaced, with only one example of over 3300 surviving. This example, Hawker Typhoon MN235, only survived by chance after being sent to the United States Air Force ( USAF ) for evaluation during the war. With approximately 9 hours of flight time, the USAF crated the Typhoon and stored the aircraft with many others. Eventually becoming an asset of the Smithsonian, the Typhoon was traded back to the UK's RAF Museum Hendon in 1968 for a Hawker Hurricane.
My Dad was an RAF Armourer with the Typhoon squadrons who went to Normandy as the 2nd Tactical Airforce so this video is of great interest as it has given me an insight in to what what he was dealing with. Great video, all the best Gordon.
I admire your dedication to the Typhoon and your amazing workmanship
Thank you Lester! ~Ian
Getting antsy about the Saber engine video. I know it will be well done as all his videos are. My dream car is a Porsche 917 body with a new frame, K.I.T.T. interior, AI system, and a Saber engine to power it. Here's dreaming 😃
Another great bit of airframe archaeology as you piece together the final flying moments of the Typhoon now in your care.
Just incredible to see and hear the details. Love the casual " before I go ahead and order the custom built spar booms!" Not been done since the 40's I might add. Tremendous step forward.
You do realize that this particular type of restoration can really only be done by someone with extensive back ground in aviation building and repair coupled with a trust fund that can only be attributed to the independently wealthy to the point that funding the building and the hundreds of thousands in tools and machining equipment and custom built replacement parts .. are all but a drop in a bucket to someone that can off offhandedly do something of this magnitude all by himself. amazing what money can let you do. This was sorta interesting but as exciting as watching paint dry . sorta like watching rich people clip their toe nails, im out of here ...
@@mathewhoffer4541 Nothing to do with sheer guts and talent then? All about money according to you. Money isn't the only requirement. And if having the funding to do this kind of thing somehow offends you then it's just aswell you're not involved in important historic and hugely challenging tasks like this. It bores you because you don't have the intelligence to understand it. Best you go and piss on someone else's parade.
Very nice! Even though it will take a lot of time I’m really anxious to hear that Sabre run 😍
Welcome back online. We can all see and admire the time and effort that is going to be needed to get a Typhoon airworthy once again.
Such incredibly dedicated and painstaking work. Thank you for your efforts.
Hi Ian. Nice to see you back. The break has obviously been very helpful. Your working much faster 😆. Keep up the good work.
Great to see a bit more of the plane, I find it very interesting. Cheers Ian thanks for sharing 👍
Glad to see you back! Missed your updates on the Typhoon project.
Absolutely fascinating, many thanks for posting.
You are doing a tremendous work, that's very impressive to watch and listen to
That Flak damage was interesting to see plus showing how dangerous Typhoon ops were.
On the 1st of April, the Hawker Typhoon Preservation Group announced their ambitious project to return Hawker Typhoon Mk.Ib RB396 to airworthy condition. They aim to do this in 5 years.
Ian, I hope you may be able to have a bit of a hand in that and to perhaps benefit from this UK development. You have the makings of a plane and no engine and they have an engine and little making's of a plane 😉
I love to see the wing construction details as you take this section apart. Just incredible what Sir Sydney Cam and Hawker Engineering were able to design. I'll keep watching.
Thank you for the thoughts David, we have released a statement on this group which is located in our TH-cam community tab; nothing has changed since that statement was made. ~Ian
Awesome Ian ! So excited for this project. - Nikos
Thanks Nikos, it should be a great year! ~Ian
Incredible the labour that went into these planes. Love the channel.
It's pretty crude stuff, once the press dies are made up you can bang out those pressings at a hell of a rate. Assembly is semi skilled and tolerances will not be terribly high. I would expect airframes to be fairly bent, that's before a crash!
I would just like to say thank you for your video I have watched a few of your videos about the typhoon and they have all been informative and enjoyable mate.
Thank you Bruce. ~Ian
Great to see the solid construction of the wing. Look forward to seeing more in the future. Keep up the good work
What intrigued me is the amount of hand work that went into a production line product.
Pride in their work and wanting to give the crews the absolute best they could have
The time to build these aircraft would have been phenomenal, but when broken down into assemblies, with thousands of hands, it went quickly. I always like to look for signs of the people who worked on these, they never get enough credit. ~Ian
It's amazing the amount of body putty used on the wing skins to maintain a smooth aerodynamic surface. Will be intresting to see how much you need when you reskin them, I wait in anticipation !
It's even more interesting to see that much applied when you can also see reduced shank bolts being used to save weight! I am not looking to use any filler on skins. ~Ian
@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd very Interesting to see the thickness of the putty.... This video is a gold mine for a professional model maker like myself.... I can finally show other model makers that most of the rivet details on kits are inaccurate for a in service machine....
@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd I have to wonder if the added weight of that putty did actually offset the reduction in the drag of the raised rivet heads.
You are doing an incredible job. *Thank You!* 👍👍
That's actually very minimal. I have no experience with aircraft but many cars I've worked on were thickly leaded to produce a smooth surface.
@@josephking6515 weight doesn't reduce speed, it effects acceleration.
Thank you so much, really enjoy your work on a magnificent aircraft
Super interesting video this week. Really enjoyed it.
Respect to you! And what a superb machine, and engine!
You are a legend bro.... Greetings from New Zealand
Quite a sobering insight as to the plight of the pilots and aeroplanes demise. Thankyou Ian
Great update Ian, thank you and for sharing this very inportant restoration. Looking forward to seeing your next progress. .report.
Thank you John ~Ian
@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd Here's an idea for raising funds. Many years ago, I visited HMS Victory in Portsmouth. They'd been cutting out dry / wet rot and replacing it with new timber. Lumps of wood were put in little transparent plastic boxes with a photocopied certificates of authenticity. You could buy a real piece of HMS Victory and take it home with you. Why not do something similar with lumps of Typhoon which might otherwise go into the trash?
Wow, that was as fascinating, great work.
Nice update.
Clearly one of the best fighter attack aircraft of WW2.
Very interesting and good to see you back in action 👍
Reminded of Neville Wheeldon's series on Just Jane... the sound of a dental surgery and hammer on Aluminium all at once! Great work. Keep it up.
Interesting to see how the wing is engineered and the various stress's dealt with.
Wow some of those wing rib parts look useable in the rebuild
Some of them are in amazing condition! ~Ian
My Dad served with the 143Wing RCAF in WWII which had Typhoons. I remember seeing a picture of that goat in your intro on one or two of his old pictures. Or maybe other squadrons also had a goat mascot?
I think there may have been a few, William de Goat was is the one you see in pictures of JP843, he was RAF 609 Sqn, in fact, there is a book about him! ~Ian
@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd So that is actually JP843 in the intro?
It sure is (the only known wartime image of JP843), and the dog there is another 609 guy, his name was Blitz. ~Ian
sono emozionato, mi avete fatto venire in mente quando da giovane ero studente in costruzioni aeronautiche e assemblavamo pezzi. video molto bello
Grazie! ~Ian
Very interesting video. I'm new to this channel I'm also an A&P IA and have my share of volunteer work on a Hawker Sea Fury back in the 1990 while in law school but it got damaged in a hanger fire. It used to belong to Kermit Weeks in Florida
Thank you for bringing this beautiful bird to life ❤
Fascinating. Is any of that wing salvageable for future use, or would you rather just make new?
Many of the ribs and smaller components have the potential to be reused. I haven't decided if these parts will be re-used or if they will be used as patterns and be re-assembled to use the wing as a display item. ~Ian
Amazing. Imagine a real Typhoon flying again, best of luck with the restoration!
People forget or never realized to begin with that these planes weren’t ever museum pieces. They were mass produced as fast as possible and sent into war. Once in the war they were made safe but were never fixed like we’d fix aircraft today. Even once war weary they’d continue to be flown for non-combat missions. Once the war was over most weren’t worth fixing correctly/permanently and were only worth their weight in scrap.
The way took so much metal we HAD to scrap most things just to get life back to normal as quickly as possible.
It’s a shame more weren’t saved but such is time.
Thank you
From someone who made the mistake: put something in your ears. I can't hear much in the higher frequencies anymore, years of pneumatic tools. Mindboggling amount of work in those old machines.
Thanks!
Amazing, thank you so much Tony! ~Ian
Thanks for that 👍🏼 ✨
Hello lan . Incredible patience and skill . Do you have anyone helping as l only seem to see your good self . And you can see graphically the destructive power of the 88mm . Thankyou lan .
I'm solo on the structures at the moment, but all of my work is preceded by hundreds of hours of research and design work from other team members. ~Ian
desoutter with a keyless chuck...snazzy
Love it, .5hp and weighs nothing! Same brand used to work on the assembly line during the war. ~Ian
The four-engined Avro Shackleton was described as "10,000 rivets flying in formation". The construction of this single-engine Typhoon from roughly the same time period suggests 10,000 was a severe undercount.
And there are so many bodged-in little pieces!
Oh yes, you'd need to put some extra zeros on that! ~Ian
NOT bodged rather say precisely tuned..
some said "100000 rivets sometimes flying in formation"
The lack of finishing on the packers shows that speed was more important than looks plus why spend too much time on something which is not being built to last for years only probably months, spend the time on items which are important. The fact that the packers were fitted at all shows good workmanship, not bothering with finish shows correct priorities
I have followed your project for a while now -- I envy you! This may be a stupid question, but is anything that you are disassembling reusable?
There's an answer below.
Some may be usable with proper inspection and some may be usable with inspection and repair; I've not yet determined what will fall into either category as the display and preservation of original historic artifacts is a key consideration as well. ~Ian
Loving it!
Another great episode!
So, who is going to be 1st to take to the air with a Sabre engine?
There is "Typhoon Legacy" with a Typhoon or "Kermit Weeks" down in Florida with a Tempest.
Kudos to you guys not waiting on other people. It would be a day to see the worlds 1st Sabre engined Hawker take to the air.
Wow there's some seriously heavy structure in there.
Beautiful video....the torsion box in Cannons area have engineering solutions very refined, I wanted to ask if in the landing gear area the torsion is supported by the differential bending of the two reticular spars, thank you. Congratulations for your work....sorry for my bad English...Greetings from Italy...
Any plans for what will happen to pieces that can't be used in the restoration? In particular, areas hit by flak or skins with paint still on them? Preserve? Display? Sell as part of fund raising?
I've not decided yet on this, but not a fan of selling privately. I would like these to have the best possible exposure to help tell the Typhoon story. Nothing can go until fully documented and constructed, so there is still plenty of time. I am keeping rivet tails and drill swarf to melt down and produce mini Typhoons made from real Typhoon material, so stay tuned to see how this goes. ~Ian
Fascinating video i just kept watching it over and over. Your dedication in this historical project is amazing. I want to ask a dumb question..............how much recoil was there when the cannons fired and how did it affect airspeed?
Interesting question for sure, there would have been quite a bit of recoil, however I'm not aware of any limitations for firing. That said, I'm also not an expert in this area! I have heard there were limits on the Hawker Hurricane when fitted with the Vickers S guns though. ~Ian
Now that you will have workiin drawings and experience - this can be mass produced again like Fleuegwerks ! lol
As we work, each area is being fully reverse engineered and documented to preserve JP843 and the Typhoon design in its entirety. Production will be possible if there is demand in the future. ~Ian
@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd Wow ! Thats so amazing Ian ! Bravo !!
Thanks from England.
Just found your channel, this is fascinating work you are doing on Typhoon.
Amazing the parts used for smooth join of leading edge?
Thank you.
Thank you. Yest these shims are used to smooth the transition between the skin and doubler. ~Ian
wing damage at 3:40 looks more like low ride on his own bomb explosion. hit dust cloud or something like this
That could be possible, or a wingman's bomb; the damage came from the front of the aircraft. ~Ian
The aerodynamic advantage of the putty was better than the weight gain of the plane from the putty?
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It would be interesting to see if that is true, I understand gloss paint vs flat finish makes a big difference. ~Ian
Superb. Whitworth nuts and bolts?
Yessir! ~Ian
1973 Was when I started my apprenticeship and I've done a few rebuilds since then! I was wondering about your rebuild of this section. Normally on on manufacture there would be a fixture to ensure that distortion is removed and there is consistency of build. Impact damage may mean you can't depend on the parts you have or the shape they are now in to replicate a 'factory fresh' section. So how do you propose to rebuild so that your end product is not twisted six ways from Sunday ? Oh and have you thought of using a 30 degree windy as well as the 90 degree? Love what you are doing, brings back memories. I sit in front of a computer screen now, but its not the same. There is nothing like watching an aircraft regrow and fly once more and know you helped.
We are quite fortunate to have been silently working on the wing for many years. While basic in design there is a lot of room for error when working with limited access to information. We have some original drawings for the wing that will help, but the fixtures will be designed from drawings and surviving parts combined with the complete digital wing scan that we did on MN235. Each aspect of this area has been carefully studied to ensure we can fill in gaps where they are found, and produce complete true Typhoon wings. Regarding the angle drill; a 30 or a 45 degree would have been perfect for drilling those nose rib rivets; unfortunately neither is available in the shop. While not ideal, I used the 90 for these rivets and started drilling off of center, bringing the drill bit tip to the center of the rivet shank at a small angle and then snapping off the head. ~Ian
@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd Would you like mine? It's an old one with collets rather than the modern variety with screw in pre formed bits but I think it would still work. I have an old tin with collets and collet keys . It served me well for 40 years and it wouldn't cost too much to post from NZ.
Hugh, the 9/32-40 collet drills are far better, I've got a 90 degree Desoutter collet drill that serves me very well. If you would be willing to contribute your drill to the project it would be very well received. Could you please e-mail me info (at) typhoonlegacy (dot) com
Just for argument's sake, could the scarring on the leading edge 3:15 be from ground attack? Great work, thanks for posting.
Yes, I believe it is from the same flak burst that hit the main spar. ~Ian
@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd Yeah, main spar, bet that one smarted.
12:00 Generally the Typhoon was operated at low or very low attitude which doesn't sound right for an explosive shell flak gun. Could this damage be done with a heavy gauge machine gun?
From my limited knowledge the damage doesn't fit that of a solid projectile, hopefully there are some on here with more knowledge of German AA equipment that can chime in on this one. ~Ian
20mm and 37mm "light" flak had impact fuses. With an aircraft, the projectile velocity is more than sufficient to penetrate the skin before bursting against internal structure.
Heavy flak can also be utilised to force aircraft such as the Typhoon to fly lower and into the engagement zones of light flak and small arms fire.
Thank you Robert! ~Ian
@@robertlangham9028 I was thinking 20mm Panzerflak
Damn damn damn. I’ve been waiting months for this and now it’s here, im too busy to watch. See you later
If only the Typhoon had been designed with the Tempest's wing from the outset. That Typhoon wing looks thicker than a Hurricane's. You wonder if the Hawker design team were out of their depth by then. The Mustang gets it right, admittedly I think its initial design might be a year or 18 months later.
The Typhoon and Tornado design had started even before the Hurricane went into production in 1937; discussions between Hawker and the Air Ministry regarding the use of a laminar flow wing began in early 1940. Design evolution was very fast at that time! ~Ian
Which powerplant are you going to use?
Napier Sabre. ~Ian
I think that Ian has been moonlighting as a dentist !!!
Thought I would let you know about fireball tool, a fabricator turned tool maker, no sacrifice in quality.
Very cool !!!
Where are you situated ? In Canada ?
You've got it! We are located in the Comox Valley on Vancouver Island British Columbia. ~Ian
My Grandfather told me Just after Normandy beach into France He watched a few "Square shaped wings" fly over And wondered how far they had to go 2 days later He seen a few German tanks destroyed...One with its Turret upside down and 100 ft away still smoking Said to of been compliments of the RAF
Someone in his Canadian regiment said : I hope they come with us to Germany
Grandfather made it as far and Apeldoorn before coming home wounded.
Typhoons Then must of had given so many hope
Here is to Peter Price from New Zealand; does anybody now where abouts he was from in New Zealand?
www.typhoonlegacy.com/index.php/project/peter-price-history/
Rivets create a lot of parasites drag.
I thought there was only one TYPHOON left in the world is this a replica
There is only one complete original Typhoon remaining, Hawker Typhoon MN235 located in Hendon. JP843 is a rebuild of the aircraft that was lost on July 27th 1944, using limited surviving remains and modern reverse engineering practices to rebuild the aircraft primarily with new structure. ~Ian
Isn't there one hanging in the D Day museum in Normandy?
When r u going to start to rebuild the engine 😃
We're doing our initial research and planning now. ~Ian
Old British stuff, Whitworth thread on the bolts?
Yessir! ~Ian
@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd I assume somebody makes them to the right spec or do you replace replace with unf/metric?
Ian. The Rolls Royce rebuild was fascinating, interesting and had my rapt attention but it doesn’t hold a candle to the BIG overarching project of the Typhoon and all that’s coming.
Keep up the amazing work!
@@69waveydavey More likely AN
Old stock can still be found for most of the standard AGS hardware, the issue with it is that there is a lack of traceability, and the tensile strengths are usually all over the map. The Typhoon uses a great deal of Hawker designed fasteners, for those we will be producing them to original spec, but with 60 degree thread, in other areas we will likely use AN and NAS hardware. While it would be fantastic to use original wartime fasteners, by going this route we can control fastener strength and ensure material traceability. ~Ian
...all that putty... More _fine_ British workmanship.
These structures were still very new in design at the time, it took many years to refine designs and processes. ~Ian
WTF is "aluminum"?!?!?!
The first time I've ever seen an airplane get a root canal 🫤
Thanks!
Thank you very much!! ~Ian