Automobilista 2 V1.5 Review - I'm torn!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
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Simracing is difficult. Learning how to drive fast takes time, dedication and persistence. Assetto Corsa Competizione is one of the best simulations with highly sensitive aerodynamics that want to be respected. Telemetry, such as motec helps with analyzing car behavior and finding major issues in the car setup or driving style. Special sim racing hardware also helps with becoming better, but certainly is not the solution to your problems. Load cell pedals offer better feel. Stronger but most importantly more detailed force feedback of e.g. direct drive wheels offer more immersive sensations. Though I know and I've seen throughout the years, people with entry level hardware perform on top level. Also watch my latest video here: www.tubebuddy....
I want to point out how respectful you are with your criticism. It is a very big contrast to others that promote the toxic sectarianism it is pretty common in the simracing community (and more generally, gaming and internet). I already know the comment section will become a s**t show, sadly.
I personally prefer AMS2 in the current state of things. Actually it was before 1.5. But I try to test every sim. In the case of ACC I never really connected at all. In part it is not a driving thing, but because I find the content too narrow. To run GT3s at mainstream tracks I just prefer iRacing where at least I have multiclass.
You really nailed all what's irreparably off in AMS2. When the MP4/13 whas out i couldn't believe that sliding thing was supposed to simulate a F1 car. You can read a book while it communicates you what tyres are doing. Also each car has same behavior, always the rear sliding around and you just control it with one arm out the window.
We already had Tire Pressure Simulazione, and now please welcome Oversteer Simulacion, traction lack edition!!!
one thing ams2 does better than acc is pedal inputs, the throttle has a much better response and and the braking is a little less "smash at all time" acc inputs are a bit binary
agree with the throttle.
the brake is just like 10-20 less input during trailing, but otherwise very similar I'd say. alas, ams2 allows more control over locking the rear tires, as theres good communication from the tire to the driver
Been using ams2 for the past couple of years and I absolutely agree with you. The cars generally feel like the more you slide, the faster you get, at least until the tyres get too hot. I'd say that the weight shifting during the transitions works okay, but the physics allow such a great slip angle without losing speed/momentum that driving over the limit is unchallenging. It's in the opposite side of the tyre feel spectrum compared to iracing, specially during power application.
Finally, an honest review that explains exactly what I feel with this update! Surprised other big YTubers are giving this update flying colors, don't get me wrong I've been with AMS since the beginning, but we have work to do.
Meh, finer details. Maybe I’m just old but i do not demand the physics to be a 1:1 replica of the real world cars. Not even ACC is a true replica of driving a gt3 car.
It’s good enough for me and happy with the physics of this game
For those that like Nils have this weird FFB where the wheel keeps going left and right, I have the same with the default and default+ FFB. I had to use a custom FFB file to remove this weird behaviour. But this weird FFB left/right thing doesn't apply to every wheel, so a custom FFB isn't mandatory for everyone.
Simagic Alpha
I've Never Felt this.
CSL DD and I have always had that too with stock profiles. There is a thing which feels like countersteer force generated right in the steering column. Custom profiles (I use Danielkarts ones, just not following the FEI recommendation because imo it is off) completely remove that feeling.
Really like the sim car repertoire - I am old cars nerd.
And once again I am tired how whole convo here is GT3 crap only.
@@ViktorJaneba Interesting. I used to Run RFuktor a Year Ago.
But I Run "Default" now and I love how it Feels
A CSL DD is between 5-8 NM
I Use an Simagic Alpha (15nm) at around 78-79% power.
It's a Sweet Spot
I think that's an extra "seat of the pants" effect which applies a torque opposite to vehicle yaw acceleration. It helps feel changes in vehicle rotation. Default+ has the highest level, default lower value and the non-exited custom force feedback file has none of it. AC1 has this too and irffb for iracing.
I think people often miss the point of the "AMS2's physics aren't perfect" thing, which isn't that any sim has perfect physics, it's that it's more or less the sole outlier in a lot of ways when compared to other sims. Drive a GT3 in AC, ACC, or RF2 and you can instantly feel how direct and planted the cars are despite being fairly heavy and not having THAT much downforce. If you're too abrupt with the steering during weight transfers it can be very easy to lose them entirely, and while you can (and in some situations should) drive them aggressively, they still benefit from precise inputs like pretty much all race cars do.
In AMS2, however, you can treat the cars like they have 1/2 the power and downforce they do in some situations. You can sling them over curbs, use really aggressive inputs all around, slide them around corners and overtake in ways that seem to be basically impossible in other sims and reality. Now, I don't think that's a massive indictment of the sim; there are some other classes that feel a bit better and even the GT3s do FEEL like GT3s under most conditions and I think are actually really fun to drive. I did an hour long race with them on the Nordschleife the other day and had adrenaline pumping and a smile from ear to ear the whole time! But they do lack that snappiness and plantedness in extreme situations, and it's definitely hard to get the rear end loose enough to come around.
No matter how much I'm pushing I never really feel like I'm on the limit of grip like I do in other sims. On one hand it makes me feel like an absolute fucking hero when I massively divebomb someone coming down into Kallenhard, and on the other hand it makes me question how much work there is still to be done? Especially since it's a rear engined car, which aren't known for having a ton of stability while you're slamming on the brakes and turning in hard while the rear end's light. Try that in AC or RF2 and tell me you're not getting at least a LITTLE loose. It's like there's no pitch sensitivity at all at times
It's not limited to the GT3s either, but I do think (as much as people love to whinge about their popularity) they're noteworthy cars to compare because of their ubiquity, popularity, and "average" balance of characteristics in that they're not insanely heavy or light, not super downforce or mechanical grip reliant, not open wheeler or prototype stiff but not soft either, not immensely fast but absolutely not slow, and accessible to drive while still having an high skill ceiling. Almost every simracer knows how roughly a GT3 feels in various sims, and they're available in just about every sim, so they're great cars to get a comparison of different physics models' general feeling as long as they're modeled to a similar quality as the rest of the content.
Driving a GT3 in iRacing and ACC are very different experiences.
Totally agree - V1.5 was a step in the right direction and better than before, but the cars still slide all over the place. The cars just don't feel like they "should" like in AC or ACC.
The opinions about various sims are all over the place. And everyone makes pretty valid points. You can’t help but come to the conclusion of enjoying what makes you happy and makes you feel closer to the real thing.
Spot on!
Well said, it’s easy to get caught up in the drama, when really just use what feels right at the time.
'(all) the cars kind of feel the same, every car...'
Yes - this is exactly what I feel as well.
Glad someone is putting it out there.
Excellent synopsis.
I know most like to use ACC as a benchmark but it feels so believable (most of us have no idea what is actually realistic when it comes to race cars) in that game a mid engine and front engine feel completely different and need a different driving style. A Ferrari feels completely different to the Lambo, Nissan to the Merc etc. In AMS2 it just doesn't feel like that at all. All cars kinda feel the same to me. Yes there are differences but not like you would expect. Not only that but it just doesn't feel like bad driving goes punished. Lockup massively and still make the apex (yes you will flat spot the tyre) get understeer but turn more and the car will turn. Get 90 degrees sideways and come out the corner without losing time or much effort to correct the car. I just don't get the hype for 1.5 myself. It feels a little more planted but its still the same weird AMS2 handling/feel to me at least.
@TypeRTeg Yeah agreed. I mean I'm not hating on AMS2, if you enjoy it, rock on, play it till you drop - you do you. But for me, I just can't click with it. Can't get over that consistent feeling with all cars.
@@danielfowler899 I agree, enjoy what you enjoy. I have fun with F1 23 for the career and the handling this year isn't to bad (far from sim) AMS2 has some content not found in many games but as a overall package, its lacking in so many areas for me. So many bugs and issues, varied quality between cars, and I just don't find the driving that good myself. It can make you feel like a god its that forgiving but I just look for believable handling if I boot up a sim which AMS2 has never felt for me.
I agree. I drove quite a lot of that update and to put it in a short way, it kinda felt like all or most of the cars have the same tolerance of slip angle when you put the power down.
Almost like they all have the same tire.
Understeer doesn't exist on power, I always feel the same sensation of rotation everytime I put the power down. Like if I would use - 0.4 rear toe in ACC but without the snappyness.
And that again for pretty much all the cars I tested, GT1 class cars, Group C cars, formula cars etc ...
yes, that. even in a DPi or P1 or whatever. They all behave the same way, same limits, same yaw, just different speeds
Agreed. Even a lot of the front wheel drive cars I've been able to basically just keep turning in and in and in and they never really run out of grip. They'll turn *less*, sure, but the front tires never seem to give up and start properly sliding like I'd expect when I'm pushing them like that
And here I was thinking I was crazy. At least now I know I'm not crazy alone thinking this. Great informative video.
I wonder if there is another kind of issue with the physics model. They found one with the tires. Now maybe there's a track grip issue. It's impossible to know, but there seems to be a lot of issues with the Madness Engine that Reiza and even Slightly Mad don't know about.
That sliding behaviour was supposed to be fixed by the tyre update and it seems like they've got their slip curves wrong leading to far too much longitudinal grip.
Like many other comments here, i thought it was me that didn't get the settings correctly. I truly want this sim to be what it aims to be.
Maybe it's me comparing it to RF2. This sim actually doesn't grab me like RF2 did the first time i played it.
That was a very respectful review, very much appreciate it.
I have to say it mirrors exactly what I feel about AMS2, in fact the rear end has always felt very strange to me. There are people who rave about AMS2 and that’s fine, drive what you enjoy, just for me is doesn’t feel very real life.
ACC is still the king of handling immersion if you want to feel what the car is doing on the tarmac.
Just my opinion, don’t shoot me down!
Daniel Morad has a different opinion about ACC. In the end, it doesn't matter. If you don't like GT3 even the best physics won't help you. I have this problem 😊
I can quote several real racing drivers in favor of each available sim. they are as unsure as us ;)
All sims get reasonably close in general and lack in some areas. in the end it depends on what data you rely on, what your target is, what your budget is, what your access is, etc. they are all somewhat extracting as much as they can manage from what they have available.
For me, version 1.5 leveled all cars.
For example: Formula Vee, which was so difficult to drive, is now too easy, that is, they improved grip but made all cars too easy.
Changing the parameters to the limits of the cars, they remain the same, that is, as an AMS2 lover, I was disappointed with the new version.
The incredible thing is that the vast majority of youtubers found the new physics very good, that is, they never really ran on AMS2.
I actually thinks the very original release version of AMS2 drove the best....maybe that's just me
I'm in awe of your ability to make high downforce GT3s work in AMS2. I had been playing around with leaderboard and my own tunes and simply couldn't get high DF GT3s to work. It was like a race to as low DF as you could get all over. They understeered like crazy in high speed corners and any adjustments I made to to the balance made them hell in low and medium speed corners to control. Tried your's and they work beautifully.
I’ve always said Reiza needs to focus on the content they have before releasing any new content…. I honestly thought (haven’t tried it) update 1.5 would be a great update but the released even more content with it….. stop with the content and focus on what you have. Still a fun sim and they’re on the right path. Imo
Appreciate the great review!!
Great video great explanation!
I totally agree i think the good thing about ams2 now is you can feel the tyres way better now there is a better connection now at least for me its fun and easy to set up for quick uncomplicated ai races. But yes somehow all the cars have the same characteristica you just described. In Acc every gt3 car drives and behaves in a very detailed unique way thats not the case in ams2
I am having almost 1000 hours in ams2, but same feeling about 1.5 update. Fair points...
I think you’re onto something regarding pitch sensitivity of the aero model. You can have cars smashing the ground at the front and there isn’t really a DF loss. I wonder if the aero model is too conservative having to deal with too much tyre deflection previously. I could see this being the case in roll as well, which could present itself as too much yaw stability (logic being a higher roll angle being a precursor of a higher potential yaw angle, more roll sensitivity would push the yaw behaviour more onto the edge at the extremes).
Not sure I agree on the sliding. I’ve noticed that whilst yes you can get sideways, it costs time. Which I don’t think is unrealistic; after all, there’s plenty of amateur drivers all over the world, being able to competently navigate the track in high powered machines like LMP2, albeit off in terms of pace. Then there’s the Junior categories, where we see a lot of drivers not of the top caliber, (or well off the mark looking even at FIA F2) and they don’t struggle nearly as badly as some sims would suggest they should.
One last point - thank you for making a considered and cerebral video. It’s nice to see YTers treat a game I very much like with respect. Look forward to hearing your comments when things get updated and refined further.
Thanks Nils, I’ve been feeling the same but beginning to doubt myself as there are so many people proclaim it the new King. The lack of pitch sensitivity and really poor modelling of the electronic systems has always been a major problem but the similarity between the way you can drive and push vastly different machinery with little penalty kind of kills it for me.
At this point I’ve stopped comparing AMS 2 to other games and instead only compare it to itself. I didn’t expect 1.5 would make the game top tier, I only hoped it felt better than the previous version and I think they accomplished that. AMS 2 is a sandbox. That’s what keeps me coming back. It’s a nice one stop shop.
That said, it’s crazy how subjective this stuff is. ACC keeps getting referenced as some kind of benchmark here when just the other day that GT4 driver reviewed it and had very little good to say about it, especially when comparing it to Iracing. So I don’t know.
Nil’s criticisms were fair and well articulated but it shouldn’t stop anyone from having fun or causing people to get defensive.
Well Daniel Morad is not the benchmark as well. James Baldwin for me is because he came from ACC and transitioned into real life GT3 racing and says ACC is as close as it gets compared to all other sims. So yeah. It is highly subjective and feel is a thing everyone experiencing different.
I like AMS2 for that sandbox style of game to have a quick ride against AI. For all the rest I got ACC and AC.
@@aqulex84 The Difference is Daniel Morad Wins lol
He is literally one of the Top Racers.
Daytona 24 Hours Winner!
Races Gt4 and GT3
There are elements of ACC Morad refers to that I agree with him are not so good, like sound and other aspects of the game. The main reason Morad prefers iRacing is the braking phase as, in his opinion, it's much closer to real life. He has to drive real GT3s and doesn't want to loose the hard gained braking sensitivity. He says he prefers ACC on corner exit and mid corner he doesn't really prises iRacing either.
If you look at the very recent news feed from iRacing producer you see they have LOTS of updates coming. To simply rewriting the code, to rain, to better and more detailed graphics, to a much more complex tyre model and a lot more.
The competition is getting more and more fierce now with Rennsport and AC2. I think all of the sims lack a lot if we were to compare them to a professional platforms like they have at Ferrari or Dallara where pro drivers comments always point out simulations never quite get it anyway.
Having said that, I think ACC, like Nils says, provides for a narrow but deeper and more precise and consistent platform for racing. It's a great game, great interface, fast load time, good stability, narrow but quality content, dynamic weather conditions that impact driving, a fair business model, nice to look at graphics, lots of community organising races, and a lots of people having fun with it.
Thank Daniel Morad for stepping down on earth and becoming a youtuber that we've all been waiting for to tell us "how it really is". The content he makes screams to focus on controversy, trigger click behavior and engagement - thats good! But he's doing that to sell some oven gloves, not to somehow add value in terms of simracing related content.
@@SimracingPopometer Even so, I don't think those things invalidate automatically his points or perception of ACC. Especially the braking, which is clearly different in ACC than in most if not all other sims. Maybe on your level, it's more nuanced in ACC too than what he perceives (and many others too), but it's hard to deny it's way different than in other sims, where even average driver like me cannot just go to 100% in most corners and keep it there and only trail a bit in the end and still do okay. Curious to know what's you take on that topic, it's not like Morad is the first one who describes ACC braking like that?
I find it interesting that Baldwin amd Morad has total opposite experience how ACC braking feels compared to RL GT3's. Could it play a part what GT3 cars they actually have driven even? (At the time I saw Baldwin make that comment, he just had done that Spa 24h race with the McLaren)
ps. Morad's streams feel genuine and entertaining that his videos
I've come to the same conclusion. No matter the car or the corner I never have to fear loosing the rear when applying too much steering inputs, its never on the edge of grip during corner entry.
In other sims I know approaching some corners with heavy turn in angle, I know the rear can be very very close from slipping on me and you are literally driving on the edge. But this doesnt happen in AMS2, hell I even tried to yeet the car out of the corners but it just understeers and runs of the corner, the rear never loses grip.
So in this case it just seems to have too much aero grip.
However I do think the 1.5 upgrade made a huge difference, some cars felt really bad but now all of them feel pretty good minus the thing I said.
I think they will nail it eventually and its good enough to have proper fun. I'm having a blast right now racing the AI in multiclass racing.
Really what AMS2 suffers from is underdevelopment of the game itself.
Everbody looks past physics issues in iRacing and ACC because there are a lot of good racing experiences to be had.
AMS2 has fairly decent AI and some good leagues, but the attention it gets is always around physics updates. With each update come a bunch of YT videos "evaluating the new physics" but who basically end up telling us that AMS2 is not just like the sim they usually drive and is therefore not realistic. If AMS2 had a better racing experience, driving quirks would just be minor niggles
IMO, all of the major sims do an overall good job with the physics and provide cars that are believable. But each has its own quirks. Being used to what ACC (or AMS2) get wrong doesn't mean the issues arent there.
I don't think AMS2 will ever compete with the other sims in regards of Multiplayer.
But I do think it's a great sim for those who just want to race different cars and tracks with great AI and racing elements.
@@TheCameltotemyes it certainly is, but there’s a ton of us who bought it ages ago, rightly assuming there would eventually be some form of decent multiplayer.
Its like they have 100% given up on the mp side of things which is odd, surely they know that for the game to have any form of longevity it needs it.
Sim racing is booming and it’s a real shame that this is basically just a hot lapping / AI simulator.
If I recall, the latest patch mostly changed the tires and how they affect other aspects of the cars, and it didn't change much of the actual cars themselves. I can't remember exactly what was said, but I do remember reading that there was some knowledge gained that improved things dramatically, and the Inter was the first car that had all that new knowledge applied to its creation. It's probably not a coincidence that all the cars you mentioned enjoying, happen to be the newest ones, if that makes any sense. Hopefully with all the foundational things finally sorted out, Reiza can focus on polishing up the existing content, if it needs it.
yeah. some of the cars received the 1.5 physics earlier and now supposedly all cars should have it, hence why I tested them now. but as you say, probably easier to implement entirely new cars than patching up old ones potentially(?)
@@SimracingPopometer From my understanding, the only changes to existing cars is that the tire changes are applied across the board with 1.5. Pretty sure most everything else with the older cars, is still as it was. I could be mistaken on that, but I'd have to ask around.
Either way, Reiza mentioned they're releasing current GT3 cars later in the year (presumably alongside Le Mans), and it'll be extremely interesting to compare them to the older GT3s you took a look at. I think that will be a good indication of if Reiza has figured out what they need to, to pump out consistently top-shelf content.
I've told them that the aero-efficacy seems way too high in corners and lowering downforce should be more efficient than it is. Also the default-setups, especially differential, are too similar because just one guy doing setups or at least it feels like it. Too much coast-diff locking makes many cars too stable. After the GT1-release the cars were much more tricky to drive regarding pitch-sensitivity than they are now. In earlier versions of AMS2 prior 1.3 iirc the tyres were far more sensitive to sliding and overheating the tyres too much. It was even a bit overdone, but sliding around was certainly not a trick to win a race and saving tyres with the least amount tyre scrubbing the key. I miss that behavior. If you want some tricky cars, you need to go lower in downforce like Lotus 49C, 72E, 79, Super V8 is still challenging or the F Trainer. GT4 is also better than GT3/GTE to me.
I just finished a 1 hour race at Spa with GT3s, here are my thoughts (driving a 911 GT3 R):
Three weather slots: cloudy - rain - cloudy. Playing at 115 difficulty. 20min qualifying, started 3rd.
1. I don't see any real differences in physics during dry conditions with GT3 cars, they're still bad to drive, slidy but very easy to recover, and very floaty in general (Open wheelers felt WAY better with the new patch btw). I know AMS2 physics is not the best, and I really don't care if everything else works fine. BUT:
2. During the rain, the car is super slidy on the racing line, and that's to be expected from the 1.5 update since they added wet lines, but the AI doesn't care about it and goes super fast on the line. That means you're A LOT slower compared to the AI on the rain. This is a dealbreaker for me. I really liked the balance of the AI difficulty during the wet, it was really nice if not a bit easier compared to normal dry conditions, and a bit easier is a lot better than 5 seconds slower on the wet. You can slow down and take it easy if the AI is a bit easier, but you can do absolutely nothing if the AI is 5 seconds faster than you.
3. When the rain stopped the AI cars never pit to change the tires to slicks. I don't know if it was just a random bug, I have to redo the exact same race to test it. Obviously I pitted for slicks and literally destoyed all AI cars in the 15 minutes that were remaining.
Started 3rd, down to ~16th in the wet, back to 3rd because of the AI not changing tires.
All in all, a huge letdown. I play sims offline, I don't care for time trials and leaderboards, I just want to have fun and do my best on a simulated racing weekend against AI.
Before the update the game did a good job with AI and the overall offline experience, now it's completely broken.
What a shame.
I love AMS2 for the weather simulation and I like setting the weather to random most of the time, but if I can't play under wet conditions anymore, I basically lose all the interest I have in this sim. If I have to play during the dry, I'd rather play Assetto Corsa. Or the king of racing simulations with no rain: Automobilista 1.
I would love to see more Australian V8 Super Series
Really agree with your points!
But since I only have a g29, this "easiness" to drive makes ams2 the only game that makes me feel "competitive enough". Even on my cheap wheel I can "feel stuff" on the ffb..to the point that is informative! For other games , it feels like there is no information at all on the ffb... Again .. I know I'm using a very cheap wheel! But it honestly feels like a good accessibility feature!
Other games may have better physics and stuff! But the lack of informative ffb on those lower tier wheels makes those game way harder than it should be!
Also, to me it feels like is easier to overdrive the cars on ams2..like there was more tolerance for the tires and stuff... But after a few laps overdriving the cars, the tires will gave in! Losing all the grip.
Anyways, nice video! And good points! Keep it up =)
i get that notion yeah. If i went back to a G29, im not sure how i would drive honestly. im relying a lot on the speed and detail of the FFB on a direct drive
Thank you Nils for your thoughts. I think the most of us agree with you who spent a decent amount of hours in all those sims.
I've left the the following comment already below some 1.5 YT video: when playing ams2, i don't care too much about realism and physics. For me personaly ams2 is just fun for certain classic vehicles against AI and that's it...i just hop in my rig when my kids sleep and enjoy 1-2 hours of uncomplicated AI racing.
I like the example on nuerburgring. hours of hours in acc,iracing & rfactor2 hunting bp's and running league races... and suddenly there is ams2 with a complete different behaviour what i'm and probably the rest of us is used to. The game feels off when having a car and sim to compare with. Like in this case the gt1 and gt3 class.
yeah I get the use cases differ and realism is not the major concern often. it's reasonable still, and it's challenging and fun in it's own way. I just miss being penalized over the edge, it shouldn't be that error proof. maybe it's also just an issue for the top level drivers who go to these limits and beyond consistently
I got tired of the ridiculous driving standards online, and have been doing much more AI racing (haven't totally quit online). I'm having a blast, and I think AMS2's AI is very good.
Useful feedback and I can see on the Reiza forums that they are aware of it. I'd expect them to adjust things in the next patch cycle. I think 1.5 is a very good baseline though and I'm having a lot of fun with it.
Let's hope the more open nature of Assetto Corsa 2 won't make it similarly hit or miss in regards to quality of the cars and their driving experience.
I hate it when people try to downplay ACC. I notice it's mostly i-racing players who suck at ACC
@3:30 thank you for saying this!! Thought I was going crazy trying to argue this with other people.
Exactly. I love the update but it might have become too grippy. Little more tweaking would again heavily increasy the sim part of this game.
I tried a few 1.5 cars and to me the feeling is very arcade - similar to Grid 2019.
Rubbery and unresponsive in the steering center. I also noticed the extreme oscillations and self-induced tank slappers if you release the wheel while simply driving straight - very strange.
Accepts large inputs to turn / countersteer (no finesse required).
Very grippy and very forgiving in catching every slide.
I suspect the mostly positive feedback for 1.5 stems from people having easier time with the game. It's now trivial to catch every slide so it makes driver feel good about himself.
I think that "very arcade" are very big words.
I would agree with what he says. Something is not fine tuned with the diffs and also bothers me hoe easy is to jump over kerbs and to catch slides.
Besides that, for me many cars jas very credible physics and I enjoy driving them a lot. GTE's are brilliant, the Porsche cups for example.
But rare physics exist in all sims IMO.
For me ACC has something weird that cars are too stiff, they are very difficult to keeo on pace.. the braking into corner is barly understandable... for me is ti difficult. A GT3 can't be that complex when almos all drivers are pay drivers or gentelman dirvers...
The races on AMS2 can be very funny because it allows to overdrive de car ans battles can be intense.
I've been always very critic with physics and FFB and AMS2 is just OK enough.
All race sims are games!....less than 0.5% of sim racers are anywhere near pro drivers (although some of these pro drivers are singing the praise of AMS2 realism).....easy to completely miss the point when reviewing. With respect to emersion, feel, feedback, content, AMS2 seems to have risen to the top - it really is good.
Im 58 and been sim racing since my teens. I have to say i agree with you although there has been an improvement to being able to catch a slide. Still no control of the car when on the grass.
I'm still amazed that for realism the original assetto corsa is my go to sim, nothing else in my opinion comes close.
Such a shame just as with project cars 2, where if you have you noticed you can take every corner flat out and not lose the car, so untealistic.
Anyway, appreciate your honest review, just maybe the devs can get this sorted.
Thank you for putting to words that feeling in the FFB - I was like "It must be me" and went down a rabbit hole of fiddling and tweaking to try to get rid of it, thinking it was something with my equipment.
I am the exact same. Does not help that I only started with ams 2 with this update because people told me it is amazing haha.
@@TitusKonrad284 it is with some cars :D the formula inter for example, or f-usa2023
@@SimracingPopometer I actually felt it in all the cars I tried to some extent. It really threw me off because it feels just wrong
@@TitusKonrad284 gotta drive those from a few weeks ago again maybe :D
Ohne dir widersprechen zu wollen - denn es stimmt durchaus, dass einige Fahrzeuge in AMS2 dem Fahrer Möglichkeiten für Fehler geben, bei denen ich stark daran zweifle, dass man sie im echten Leben wirklich noch korrigiert bekäme - finde ich doch eines bemerkenswert: Im echten Leben gibt es durchaus immer mal wieder ausbrechende Fahrzeuge, die von den Fahrern unter Kontrolle gebracht werden, teilweise auch in spektakulärer Weise. Dass AMS2 einem diese Möglichkeit gibt, ist grundsätzlich definitiv begrüßenswert und mMn haben andere Simulationen da etwas aufzuholen (ACC hat mit 1.9 ja auch einen Schritt in die Richtung gemacht, aber R3E zum Beispiel hängt noch hinterher).
AMS2 muss nur eben, wie du meintest, darauf achten, dass so etwas in High-Downforce-Fahrzeugen nicht allzu leicht sein darf, und dass diese Fahrzeuge dann eben doch etwas zickig sein müssen (die Rillenreifen-Ära nehmen wir da mal ein bisschen raus; die sind schon viel gerutscht). Sollten sie es hinbekommen, dass es sich angsteinflößend einführt, in einem modernen F1-Wagen den Grip zu verlieren, wäre schon sehr viel gewonnen.
Mehr philosophisch ist aber die Frage, wie "schwer" das Autofahren denn nun ist. Wie oft sehen wir denn Dreher von GT3- oder Formelfahrern? Sicher, das sind professionelle Rennfahrer, aber am Gas sieht man wirklich so gut wie nie (!) einen Fahrfehler und wenn, dann im Regen. Dass es wirklich schwierig ist, Traktion zu finden, dafür gibt es mMn sehr wenig Anzeichen. Mir würde zB in der F1 überhaupt kein Fahrfehler ohne Regen in den letzten 14 Jahren einfallen, der am Kurvenausgang durch durchdrehende Räder passiert ist.
Fahrfehler passieren in der Regel am Kurveneingang (Untersteuern oder Heck überbremsen) oder in der Kurvenmitte (Untersteuern oder Lift-Off-Oversteer). Da sieht man auch immer wieder Leute abfliegen und das sollte mMn in jeder Simulation auch das sein, wo das Fahren schwierig ist (und auch in AMS2 bisweilen schwieriger sein sollte). Aber mit der Traktion haben dann in der Regel doch allenfalls Amateurfahrer Probleme, und das sind viele von uns nun wirklich nicht mehr.
F1 ist in der tat ein schwieriger vergleich. Das scheint alles so geleckt, die Fahrer so gut, dass man in der Tat kaum noch nennenswerte Fehler sieht. Was man aber sieht: Die Fäigkeit der Autos in anderen als der idealen Situation Grip zu produzieren, ist gering. Sobald es da bei 200 kmh schief geht, geht es auch so ziemlich mit 200 kmh seitwärts weiter Richtung Kies/Wand. Ich denke auch das Reglement führt dazu, dass die Autos im Rennen permanent unterfahren werden, weil Reifen zu sensibel auf Überlastung reagieren und Sprit grundsätzlich knapp ist (Ich glaube die Regeln lassen gerade nur einen Verbrauch von 100kg/h zu, während aber nur 100kg für's ganze Rennen im Tank sind oder sowas?). In den GT3s ist auch immer schon ABS und TC am Werk, aber nichts desto trotz fliegen die Dinger halt richtig ab, sobald der Grip mal weg ist, sei es wegen einer Kollision oder zu viel Kerb oder sonstige Fehler. Mich stört auch nicht die Menge an Grip, die es grundsätzlich gibt, sondern dass es risikofrei ist ans Limit und darüber hinaus zu gehen - und in AMS2 ist das eben (beinahe) unabhängig vom Fahrzeug möglich wie mir scheint. Der Reifen kommt immer wieder zurück, das Limit ist sehr breit, man muss den Dreher schon wollen, damit er passiert.
Also Grip ist das eine. Davon scheint es in echt eine Menge zu geben. Aber bei AMS2 ist eben gerade auch nach dem Grip noch Grip und wenn man schon über die eigene Schulter schauen muss, um noch in Fahrtrichtung zu blicken (ich übertreibe), dann ist da immernoch Grip - das ist der Teil der mir falsch vor kommt.
Im echten Auto tasten sie sich immer näher ran an den Punkt, wo es dann endgültig zu viel ist. Aber das kommt abrupter und mit deutlichen Zeitverlusten, wenn man es denn überhaupt abfängt. Der Gripverlust, wenn er denn mal eintritt, müsste eigentlich exponentiell schlechter werden, abhängig vom Grad des "Übertreibens". Im Spiel gehört es aber gerade dazu permanent über den Peak hinaus zu gehen - da scheint mir der Unterschied zu liegen; dass es genau nicht exponentiell schlimmer wird, je mehr man es übertreibt, dass es genau kein schmaler Grat ist, sondern eher ein breiter Touri-Pfad.
Diesen Bereich um den Grip/Slip Peak gut abzubilden, das ist die Kernaufgabe jeder Simulation und gleichzeitig auch die schwerste. Das gelingt Rally Spielen oft besser, weil sie immer über dem Peak unterwegs sind und der schmale Grat nicht so wichtig ist. Ich habe da mit Aris schon lange drüber gesprochen für ein Interview und alles dreht sich im Grunde um das Verständnis und Abbilden dieses Grates.
Ich durfte ja mal Simulatoren echter Rennteams fahren (bei Mahindra Formel E und bei BMW den M4 GT3). Die Ingeneure da interessieren sich nicht(!!!) für den bereich nach dem Peak - da hat der Fahrer überhaupt nicht zu sein. Er darf bis zum Peak und da ist schluss. Danach ist Abflug, und das so Abrupt, dass auch die 60Nm direct drives (natürlich laufen sie nicht auf der Kraft, haben aber entsprechend auch gute Slew Rates), nicht mehr helfen können das abzufangen. Während man bei Formel E eher in der Tat auf der Bremse das Heck verliert, und die Straßenreifen ansonsten recht viel zulassen, waren die Slicks im BMW Simulator sehr viel weniger tolerant - und das trotz relativ restriktiver TC.
ACC unterscheidet sich von diesen Simulatoren vor allem durch die progressiver eingreifende TC - also je mehr man quer ist, desto mehr regelt sie - unabhängig vom TC setting. So verhindert ACC quasi dass man zu quer kommt. Der Vorteil der Simulation ist nämlich auch, dass die elektronischen System kein Delay haben. Sie sind zu perfekt. Sie arbeiten mit gemessenem (weil vorher errechnetem) Slip und können so unendlich präzise eingreifen - das sind quasi agierende System. Da unterscheidet sich die Realität und auch die Simulatoren der echten Teams, die die echten, physischen Controller der Elektronik verwenden, und nicht nur alles simulieren. Die Controller für TC und ABS haben einfach ein systemisches Delay. Sie greifen zwangsläufig später ein, weil sie eben reagieren statt agieren. Der Slip wird in echt eben nicht einfach als Wert gemessen, sondern aus Proxy-Daten näherungsweise bestimmt. D.h. die echte TC liegt 1. etwas daneben und 2. kommt sie immer etwas zu spät sozusagen. Aris hat mir auch von den Versuchen erzählt, dieses Delay einzubauen und imperfekte Electronics zu bauen - aber: schwieriges Unterfangen.
Wenn man in ACC die TC aber aus macht, dann kriegt man schon eher mal muffensaugen am Exit und überlegt sich zwei Mal, wie früh man jetzt einfach Gas möchte. Da kommt diese Grat-Wanderung schon gut rüber finde ich.
Wenn man dagegen jetzt mal AMS2 nimmt, und insbesondere die GT3s, dann ist von dieser Grat-Wanderung ohne TC nichts zu spüren.
War genug Text für ein Video oder? Vielleicht mache ich mich da mal ran :)
Great that AMS2 gets the deserved visibility, and hopefully wide popularity. It's just interesting to see how most YTs and the audience didn't take a closer look (as you did) on v1.5. While it provides now a very good physics fundament, though it's true imho that Reiza overshot a bit the thin line between too much and too little grip. I have also mixed feelings: on the one hand v1.5 is very attractive in terms of throwing the car around and balancing it at the edge (as a not so skilled driver), on the other hand it dilutes indeed the various characteristics of the cars, where some are more snappy in reality than in the sim. I guess Reiza knows and may do some little tweaks... As always, quality content from you.
1.5 is a good baseline. They will adjust and I'm confident they will tone it down a bit. At least for the GT3s. Mind you, I tried the GT Open cars and they were quite easy to spin, so its not every car.
@@mikecroshaw9233 Easy to spin but always easy to catch.
Amazing video. Thanks a lot. I noticed I could get turning ability while still 100% braking in tight turns. If I did this in ACc, it seems as though I would go straight. Am I imagining things? That's for GT3 cars.
you can be quite aggressive indeed and overdoing it likely leads to over rather than understeer, which helps if you overshoot
@@SimracingPopometer your opinion is worth a lot and validates what I noticed. Unfortunately I'm in VR, and ams2 is so much easier to run than acc that I'll stick with it. The game is still a lot of fun but it would have been nice if reiza finally fixed all issues.
Good review--with a great attempt to be objective and thorough (unlike many YT reviewers). Absolutely, the sandbox approach to AMS 2 will always require more patience while physics advancements and corrections are deployed throughout the ridiculously large and varied portfolio of vehicles. However, do not underestimate the Reiza team's ability to eventually pull this off, as they did in AMS (1). The engine used this time is vastly more complex and was never polished in previous titles that used it, so the devs made it clear from the outset that this would be a journey...aka don't join it yet if you are only interested in the final destination. There have been other systemic issues that affected the handling and feel of the cars that have been expunged, also requiring a massive amount of work to deploy out to the whole range of vehicles in the game (which keeps increasing slowly, too). Each time there is a major update, assume every vehicle will sprout some improved dynamics while the list of problematic outliers will shrink. As an aside, I would check your FFB settings, though, because you should not get that type of unwanted oscillation if they are set optimally. Don't be afraid of the in-game "damping" setting--it is not dampening the feedback as some other similar-named game and wheel control panel settings do. It should allow you to fine tune the right level of dynamic feedback from the road and bumps and curbs without crossing over into over-amped oscillation.
thank you, I'll play with that setting even though I didn't need it before.
and yes, sims keep improving, all of them. I'm just checking in every now and then where they are on their journey. some outcomes are great, some not yet
Well said. Reiza has accomplished leaps and bounds over the course of the madness engine fine tuning. I have faith they will get it done and the MP side of things is problematic for them and have acknowledged that.
I may be entirely wrong here and I have at best a moderately savvy layperson's knowledge of the physics of this, but I wonder if the tires having excessive longitudinal grip might be the reason for the slidey feeling and inability to get the car to rotate or oversteer much? i.e. even if you're losing lateral grip, you still have the longitudinal grip and thus the car will pull itself forward faster than it can start rotating and thus it's much harder to build the car up into a full spin and you end up with the strange powerslide effect?
Same goes for cars like the 911 GT3 being very hard to get the rear end to come around with, even with high rear ride heights, stiff rear end, low wing, etc. because of the extra weight pushing the rear tires down even more and exacerbating the problem. I've noticed that a lot of the cars that were previously VERY easy to get loose on braking or acceleration are far more stable now as well, which seems like it would make sense if that's the general issue with the tires. They'll slide fairly realistically in one direction but not in the other
Also would potentially explain the near-limitness ability to keep turning in more and more without starting to get the front end fully sliding like you'd expect, with the the fact that the front tires yaw as you steer letting you direct that extra grip and pull the car inwards when it should have given up and started sliding.
its probably a good direction of thinking, but the underlying "problem" (as thats a matter of perspective) is probably more complex than changing a friction value somewhere. everything we see is a result of everything happening under the hood, and just changing one thing will affect many others, too. Which also means, this is probably also their current best compromise. Moving away from that would mean having a mismatch elsewhere. So we gotta wait and see if there's something they're unhappy with
to me the issue with AMS2 has never really been the tires but its seems that all cars are too stiff and the supension feeling is bad.
Its still my go to sim for VR.
i wish they focus and really nail the physics first, as a good base, and then work on other cars' individual physics and setups. the inconsistency is crazy
I think its really tricky.
I'm sure they are having a lot of discussions around what to prioritize, what the weakest areas are, what the solvable areas are and eventually what to do. I'm fairly sure that if we as consumers had the exact same insight, we likely wouldn't draw other conclusions.
You could argue that some developers are in the end stuck with what they have, on what they built etc. And of course, what budget they have and whats possible with that. Usually the game we're getting is the best possible in the given situation.
I totally agree. There are some cars which are really great to drive. But, there are a lot wich are not a good experience. It is definitively too much and diverse content to handle in a sim.
I tested AMS2 a few times but for me it has too many of the project cars 2 bad habits. It has a particular way to be fast and I wouldn't be surprised if the same broken 360 steering angle was still OP along with the super lower downqforce and higher rear camber that was so broken on PCars2.
I like AMS2 meanwhile, but way too many cars and that's why there are still so many construction sites. Which BetaTester should test all these cars through and through. And they bring more and more content. I do not understand it.
I've been loving ams2 and the new update, for me its fun might not be right i wouldn't know but my tspc feels great in ams2, my wheel stays straight when I let go I don't get the oscillation problem I literally always let go as i access the menu to return to pits when practicing.
Same old story with AMS2, another huge update and the cars still feel off, it’s been this way since launch.
There’s just so much tolerance for the tyres to slide it doesn’t make sense, plus you can just turn and turn and turn and the fronts never seem to give up.
Take the fast right hander at Watkins glen after the bus stop, the car starts to push wide (Mclaren GT3) but you can then counter that with more throttle and steering, its not right.
Anyway, I wish they would just call it a day on physics ‘updates’ for a while and give those of us who don’t like hot lapping or AI a reason to play.
I bought at launch with the season pass and the fact that I logged on earlier today and 10 ppl were online is an embarrassment.
I think the tolerance to slip and not being pitch sensitive are things that have carried over from Project Cars 2 but in PC2 I think it was somewhat intentional to allow controller players to competitive, it does mean that controllers are viable in AMS2(not to the extent of PC2 but are still usable) but I don't know if that is intentional by Reiza or not and it seems to be the main physics issue remaining on AMS2.
I gave up on AMS2. It is just weird to drive. I almost exclusively drive F1 cars, and they are so slidey, it is nothing how a high a dowforce car behaves in real life (or how I think they should behave). AI is still bad as well. The original Assetto Corsa, Rfactor 2, Iracing are vastly superior.
Its still engine from Project Cars 2,a bit upgraded but still PC2. It will always feel like this,a bit simcade and slidey
@@user-hx3vp2vp7v this is complete nonsense, the engine is 1 thing, car behaviour is another, you can set grip to 10x in any engine or lower it to slide. it's how you prefer to set it up. How do you think they setup grip according to temp and wet roads? :D
Appreciate this look at it. I have had the game be super weird on me prior to deleting my setup folder after a big uodate. I’m sure you did that though. The holy grail sim is still out there! 😅
we wait, we cope!
I think the problem you are describing with the normal racing cars makes the RX cars on dirt so brilliant. The constant sliding under power and on brakes is imho on point with the RX cars however feels a bit strange (while being fun at most times) in normal racing cars.
yeah, it certainly works for those
I’m a little confused because on the one hand you say the cars are too easy to drive and not snappy enough but on the other hand are saying they oversteer too much? Is the problem too much or too little grip in the wrong situations (e.g. bite too much on corner entry but slide too much mid-corner)?
Too much longitudinal grip leading to a feeling similar to TC and ABS being on.
I see.
two things:
first, easy doesn't equal endless grip. and second sliding doesn't mean no grip.
the cars can be very sideways and the tires will still offer support (grip). the easy part comes from how good it is to control the car in that zone when the tire is past the peak grip. It is too smooth of a transition and too far of a transition into the slip zone. the game allows both too much sliding and being able to control the car there, because it has no sudden behavior changes from grip loss or gains.
if cars spin in real life it's in most cases a sudden loss of grip, too sudden to react to and too far over the edge of grip to recover
@@SimracingPopometer That's the issue...
There's too much grip in the curve when you push outside of what that car should be capable of...
The old feeling of being able to push through understeer and still find grip has been extended to the traction and braking zones...
You just don't pay for it like you do with the understeer with tyre deg and grip loss... The corrections needed on corner exit are all in the hands...
Exakt dieses Video hat es gebraucht. Ich hätte es nie in so gute Worte fassen können und ich konnte durchweg nur zustimmen. Wahnsinn wie schnell du dieses Video rausgehauen hast und wie viele Infos hier bereits enthalten sind. Einfach sensationell, danke danke danke.
Aber schade. Ich meinte schon nach deinem letzten ams2 Video, es fühlt sich sehr oft nach simcade an.
Ich hätte aber gern ein wenig mehr simulation als Spaß und die meisten die von AC, RF2 oder iracing kommen, stimmen hier sicherlich zu. Ich hoffe dennoch, dass AMS2 einen starken User boost bekommt, es belebt den Markt und bringt die Simracing Zukunft voran. :)
Pack AMS immer mal aus, kannst ja die Fahrzeuge nehmen, die am wenigsten off sind und mit deiner wachsenden Fanbase was kleines veranstalten ;)
Zum Schluss: wie du die Fahrzeuge bewegst, weit jenseits der Bestenlistenzeiten, war für mich Mindblowing. Ich halte nämlich einige der besagten non-competitive world records 😄
Ein paar Runden habe ich schon investieren müssen.
DPi auf Daytona ist mir zum Beispiel ein Rätsel, habe schon nach dem DRS gesucht, aber es muss wohl woanders liegen ;)
If they had all the classic official tracks like d2.0 has and all licensed drivers and the qualifying system within rallycross then I would be existed
Would you also like to review rfactor2 cars & physics? I feel like it’s worth comparing their approach/philosophy to other sims.
rfactor is fine. depends heavily on the car though. especially the slower formulas are really good.
I think when you start to make such feedback about AMS2's physics is a good sign for the long term. They're far from perfect of course but compare them to a few updates ago where in my mind none of the cars really made sense (remember the truck-like behaviour before they fixed the differentials?). Maybe I'm wrong here but rn Reiza has a solid base to work on and improve, namely making the cars pitch sensitive and snappier when they need to be.
Nils, very interesting and deep opinion.
Please don't put full-volume replay over your commentary - it's almost impossible to understand you for a non-native speaker.
yeah while recording it's tricky to manage sometimes and it doesn't record the audio as separate channels in mp4. so I would've needed to record again which wasn't an option. will eventually get it right :)
I agree with this take, the cars have this rear weird floaty thing. I couldn't reproduce this in AMS1,rfactor 2, ACC, AC or GTR2. Those sims drive similarly, only AMS2 has this particularity in the physics. But I think that the devs will keep on improving the physics until we reach a similiar feel to the other sims.
Force feedback is also a major factor. I haven't played with the updated FFBs in the game yet, but the Custom FFB rFuktor V90 is quite satisfactory. Also, the ability of most wheels to fine tune FFB per car (or set of cars) is helpful.
ffb is a major factor in what exactly?
Listen. FFB has nothing to do with the issue he's talking about. Too much rear grip into corners has nothing to do with what your FFB file you are using.
I think the FFB in AMS2 is great overall, its just some issues with high downforce cars for me.
@@SimracingPopometer In the previous built I found for example that the Default+ was making the steering heavier when you turn in and the car slows down, but the tire flexing didn't come through as well in comparison with rFuctorV80 Custom FFB file, that didn't make the steering as heavy, but I got a better feel for the tire flexing. It doesn't invalidate your assessments, but for the general population out there, the message is that your FFB settings between the game and the wheel are important to pick up everything the game has to give you and that there are different options available to help you find it. So, for someone to fully appreciate your review, they have to understand how to balance the FFB settings.
Fair. At times Im in sim racing nirvana and then I get into something like the Porsche GTE or the tractor P2 and immediately it feels wrong. Its still the sim I load up the most compared to ACC/RF2/iRacing etc.. AI is quite enjoyable now for the most part.
Im Not Sure if Other Do this. BUT.
With Each Car i Drive. I Look up that Cars Actual "Steering Lock". Set that Number on my DD Wheel Software and
Do a Wheel Calibration Before i Drive thr Car. I do this For EVERY car
Examples
800° for Porsche GT3
540° Nissan GTR GT3
420° Mclarenr F1 GTR ( vid example)
360° Formula Cars And Indy Cars
etc....
This Makes an Enormous Difference in Car Feel.
And is Not Something You would need to do in IRacing
Give it a Try!!
500° Merc GT4
ect
no need. the game auto adjusts the range. i just have it set to 900 in both driver and game and then when the car only has 400, then it will only use 400 and apply a soft lock at that limit.
this doesnt work with some wheel manufacturers and suddenly 400° get mapped onto 900° making the steering extremely slow. not the case for me though
as nils said the in game steering lock is done automatically within the game, although I don't know if the maximum wheel angle is correct, you can adjust it in the tune menu so you could always check if that is correct as sometimes it feels a bit low
@@phenic5761 the steering angle is wrong in this game and the reason for over sensitive/twitchy steering. You have to set the steer angle in-game more than your wheelbase or the tire will load up way too early. Also adjust the preload Nm lower (20 to 50) if available.
The Pendulum effect😂 the car just keeps turning like overshooting while your wheel is turning normal😂
you have very exclusive opinions to say the least
I feel perfectly connected to the ground in AMS 2, but I am using a custom ffb file.
Which file? Can you share please? Also what wheel are you using?
Hi Nils, Thanks for the review. Appreciate the effort! You mentioned you tried several formula cars and all seem to have this issue. Did you also feel the same in the F-USA that you drove on the first batch of the fix? Just want to know if that still feels all fine but the other formula cars drive like this along with the GTs and several other cars.
I should probably revisit but it (the 2023 f-usa) felt better during my first test with the pre-release a couple weeks ago
Love those BMW gloves. Can I ask where you got them?
from BMW - unfortunately they just made one batch
The BMW TC cars are snappy :(
Try AMS2 with camera settings all at 0 and Legacy cam On. Also Default FFB is best. 80 gain, 0lfb, 50fx, 50damp
what do my camera settings have to do with anything?
@@SimracingPopometer its software
@@tan143danh and that is supposed to mean...?
@@SimracingPopometer AMS2 like only pCars before has some movement added to the camera. I myself did not know this, made the cars feel strange a few year back when I first drove pcars2 and could not play that game. At the moment some people still prefer these camera movements turned off it helps them feeling conected to the car. The car feels just right if you ask me like in the other sims, like AMS1 or rf2.
Since the release of AMS2 the physics always felt completely off to me and at least the 1.5 update made a big improvement - but it's still feels off and imho it's just too easy to drive on the limit without losing the rear or to catch any slide. Racing with the Mp4/4 on a wet Spa circuit shouldn't be that easy.
But in the end it also depends on whether you have fun or whether you give up frustrated after 3 rounds, like most,. when it gets hard.
@@ThePape78 You're completely right.
Great video, great explanation about the causes of "center wheel feeling" many talk about (there is always an axis drifting away...)
I became a little disappointed about Renato saying, recently, he knows "AMS2 will not be for everybody", like "it is what it is, get used or get lost” kind of thing. Did not joined their paddock club because of that.
Btw, I don't do ACC (very strict diet), but the immersion, realism is there, for sure.
I have heard this complaint before and it seems so logical but I have not heard someone explain it so clearly. So basically, what AMS2 need is a near perfect physics simulation where you can just feed it different values on different data points like power, aero, weight, grip, etc, and the simulator would just spit out the right answer for each car. However since this is practically unachievable, the team has to work on each car individually to make sure the result is accurate. With AMS2 having tons of cars, the obviously cant dedicate hundreds of hours on each one. However, it must br said they are doing a mighty good job so far. Maybe with time, the results will just get better and better.
yeah, it certainly will get better. they made a big change to their engine with the latest update and now they probably learn a bit with that new base and will make changes from here
@@SimracingPopometer do you think the base engine still needs a lot of improvement or they have it just right where they need to improve the engine a little bit and work more on each car individually?
@@MegaIronica impossible to know for me. there are so many pieces in the puzzle of making a sim, I can't possibly know or judge. else I'd be making the sim
@SimracingPopometer did you try the Sigma P1?
yes in an earlier video where it was quite nice
The thing with the sliding for me is that I can't do it for more than one lap because the rear tyres just overheat and make it harder to control the car after a few laps. Probably just a skill issue for me though :]
Unfortunately, the cars in the sim in beta form is still sliding! You hardly feel grip before it goes on this annoying sliding feel. I just get this sense that Reiza is having a heck of a time solving this issue regarding grip.
I'm sure that they have reason to believe they are very close to what it should be. Every sim developer has different data available they work from. just working with a different tire manufacturer will lead to very different data and driving behavior. so I'm sure it's not solely a development issue or understanding issue
Man, you ruined the sim for me :D.
Nah, I still love it, but I cannot unsee these things. I have rally background so no issue with controlling slides (which are almost arcade to me here)
, but lack of pitch sensitivity and generally too smooth cars are the thing. And slip angle which somehow generates a lot of grip without ruining the tyre too much.
GT1 though... it is pretty similar to rF2 one. Like GrpC Porsche... these were enduro cars, not killing sprint monsters.
If you want sharp snappy lively car, I can name you one in AMS2 though. Cross kart. These are amazing.
And one more thing: that weird thing at 16:50: I have had it since EA... with stock ffb profiles. And I hated that effect, it feels like some canned countersteer right in the steering wheel column. Custom FFB profiles erradicate that completely, though. Well... some. DanielKarts ones, for example.
Final ACC speech has unfortunately one issue (at least for me). I like that sim, but I am absolutely not interested in GT3s at all. So I still keep jumping between AMS2, rF2 and R3E if I want circuit racing.
Rally type of cars slide everywhere so this might be the problem at 1.5 when Reiza is trying to make the introdusction to new physics
it certainly suits the rallycross cars :)
Not as good as others, but is it fun though? 🤔 😊
certainly
It's not fun if you don't have to think with your feet ;)
I drove quite a few cars around checking for the wheel oscillations that you showed. Hands on, hands off, over-steer, correction steering, and all of them that I tried had none of the issues that you showed. I use a G920 with a CFFB file 5103, so maybe your wheel just needs to be set up properly for AMS2, and maybe a CFFB file is a suitable consideration also. It may be due to the Default or Default+ file, but even when I use that, there's no issues like you had.
well, my base has 20NM, not the 1.5NM of the logitech - this might be a fundamental difference in our cases :) the custom files are often to boost certain info for those low end wheels in order to get a little more texture out of the game. but a DD has quite different capacity, so i think its not really comparable here. And again: I didnt have it like that before. a little oscillation is normal for these wheelbases in almost all games. some sort it better, some worse. but its an issue in ams2 currently
You generally won't get oscillations no where near as much with a non direct drive wheel with low force wheel.
Cant really compare a wheel that someone can turn with there finger to a 20NM DD wheel. At 20NM a DD could brake bones if held onto at the wrong moment (crashing) you probably get nothing more than a little vibration on a logitech.
@@SimracingPopometer It is not exactly like this. Custom ffb profiles have tons of variety... and usually these tuned for low torque bases are different than these for mid-high torque ones. It is usually quite time demanding if you want to try them all. I am happy I found the one suiting me the best (it feels very similar to rF2 which is my standard benchmark).
No disrespect but what you will be feeling compared to what Nills is experiencing will be night and day . I had a G920 for years and loved it but after upgrading I realised that I was only feeling the absolute basic forces at about a third of the speed .
The steering sensitivity in configuration setting is counterintuitive. 100% is the least sensitive while 0% is the most sensitive. 😂
I'm not sure what you are commenting on. My steering is fine.
The problem with this game are:
1. Too sensitive steering and cars overshoot left or right when turning when you already stop truning the wheel. Feels like a pendulum swing effect. Imagine you're on a swing trying to stop your momentum on the way up. It just keeps going up until gravity takes over. I.e. too much weight transfer to the wheel.😁
2. The tires load up to soon then loses grip. Very unstable. This is due to steering angle/steer lock too narrow.😁
3. Steering Sensitivity in Configuration is counterintuitive. (Devs need to fix this) 100 is actually the least sensitive while 0 is the most sesnsitive. Also steering dead zone should be set to 100 as default😁
4. Preload Nm in drivetrain setting is a bit low. Need to set to 150Nm.
The solution:
1. Calibrate your wheel with steer lock at 270 degree rotation instead of the 90 degree the game ask for.😁
2. Set steering dead zone to 100 and steering sensitivity to 100😁
3. Increase Preload Nm to 150 or higher in drivetrain car setting.
4. If these dont work, delete the game😂
one problem of ams2 is also that you will read info like that randomly all over the forums and youtube. I suggest to not follow these advice (: dont calibrate your wheel wrong on purpose, its not a good direction to take.
@@SimracingPopometerThese are based on my own experience with AMS2. FFB are very subjective and can be tuned per liking. But physics is a different story. It must be realistic in the way the cars behave and react to steering input. AMS2 just doesn't have the realistic physics compared to AC, ACC, R3E, rFactor2 or iRacing. It's the same feel as PC2 which is arcadish.
The wheel has always shook since the game first came out.
it's not just the shaking, it's the situation in which it happens now.
oscillation on the straight is one thing.
overshooting the center after grip regain is a completely different thing
@@SimracingPopometer fair enough I didnt pick that up in the vid. I'll have to watch that section again.
A bit OT but can you tell me which racing gloves those are? Searched for Puma gloves but I can only find ones which are much longer than yours.
not on sale unfortunately
@@SimracingPopometer Too bad. Have the Hypergrip+ now and while they are great - they only last a couple of months before the fabric starts tearing, just like my former Sparco gloves. Still looking for some decent gloves ;)
@@MrEDET yeah i had the same experience
Ja, die gleiche Erfahrung habe ich auch gemacht. Leider hat AMS2 den Biss verloren. Der Nervenkitzel fehlt in dieser Version leider total, ich denke auch es ist zu einfach geworden. LG
The cars are Waaaaay to easy to throw around now. I can abuse the hell out of them on the Northcliffe and i hardly ever lose front end grip. I mean in any car, you can approach a turn..slam the brakes and just crank the wheel to your hearts content and it'll hold. It's almost like a modded PC2 to be honest. And i'm a MAJOR AMS2 fan..but that's my subjective opinion.
I feel like that was more or less the same pre-1.5, no? To me it just feels like the unpredictable, random snappy behavior under braking/acceleration is gone and things are more consistent feeling all around. But I do agree the general grippiness is still there, and it's pretty hard to get a lot of cars to understeer much unless you're doing some real headassery
No, it's the objective truth. Wether you like that characteristic is subjective though ;)
What ur describing this game lacks is exactly the opposite feeling that acc gives u in bucket loads. The feeling of the weight/grip changing and moving to each tyre depending on your inputs. Having good ffb is one thing but only a few sims feel dynamic in terms of the weight and grip of the car shifting around depending on the track/camber and driver inputs
Gosh, that GTR sounds terrible. I really wish I could like AMS2... just doesn't do it for me (I'm an ACC enthusiast).
well the ACC sound is the same as being in a church so... way too much reverb. Not good at all.
Someday sim racers will understand that GT3 are the most easy RACING cars that exists. If they are easy to drive, physics are right.
With that logic I guess Forza Horizon is the best GT3 sim
did you watch the video? my complaint was that ALL cars in the game are too easy to drive
@@SimracingPopometer Raced them in real life?
Haha!
That's a good one!
Give me a 2:12:xxx in Spa!
Give me a 1:17:xxx at Long Beach!
Give me a 1:46:xxx in Monza!
I don't care which sim!
But don't tell me GT3s are easy to drive.
How can Assetto Corsa a game that was developed 10 years ago fundamentally drive better than AMS2? Hell even AC is better feeling than ACC to me. Everytime I come try AMS2, ACC, or iRacing it never feels as communicative as AC.
I have the opposite with AC for some reason, whatever I've tried it feels trash on my Simucube2pro
@@BASHERSKINZ Wild. Just shows how much setups, configurations, and personal preference can vary. I’m using Moza r9.
@@Username_Invalid Yeah, I might give it another go in future, all the other sims feel great with my setup
It doesn't, for me. Also, apparently it's a much simpler tire model. But I don't pretend to understand too much about that sort of thing.
@@mikecroshaw9233 It is a simpler tire model but the core foundation and driving on the limit is there and rewarding. Tire model doesn’t mean too much if other things feel ‘off’. But I do enjoy both. I love tinkering in AC and setting up the AI to run hard, and AMS2 is just a all around great package.
I came here to watch Reiza fanboys rage and nitpick. *grabs popcorn*
Real life the cars slide across the track to a degree in those old f1 also driving cars sideways isnt particularly challenging in real life either common misconception of sim racers. Physics arent perfect but it is another take. No game has physics perfect to real life.
Does anyone know if that rally update for AMS2 is free or is it a paid DLC?
dlc "adrenaline" I think?
Adrenaline Pack is not free unless you have the season pass or the premium expansion pack
10:49 1997*
cheers!
@@SimracingPopometer Great video, by the way.
Have you tried turning off the ABS ? With the Porsche GT3 in Spielberg, i noticed that the wheels almost never lock up, so the ABS almost never kicks in.
I haven't! but the lower I went the better the braking became indeed
Oh boy ..
Get ready to be told its "your ffb settings that are wrong" "cam settings are wrong " "car set up os wrong". "you are driving wrong" , "x car is fine you jsut picked wrong cars to test" "track grip was set wrong".... Maybe you will get to avoid that as you have credibility being a really good e-sports driver , lets hope.
Glad you made this video you did a good job of communicating the nature in which one has to drive AMS2 , its largely the same way you have to drive in PC2.
Strange how the rx cars end up making more sense , same was the case in pc2 .
AMS2 to me has always felt as if cars rotate almost entirely based on grip loss of the rear rather than wheels rotating at different speeds / Dif behaviour and the cars dont ever have that sensation of bite before larger slip that you get in most other sims and real cars. Combined with what almost feels like slow motion physics with how progressive everything is.
Remeber every update is a game changer though and the next update like the last makes ams2 the king of all sims.
so far only getting logitech profiles for a DD. most people seem to appreciate the attempt of deliberation instead of just trashing it ;)
Man chill with your endless hate on AMS2. I also want to say I don't think you're the right person to talk about "driving on the limit" since you are honestly a slow driver. I've raced you and I'´ve seen you race, you are several seconds off pace, you wouldn't know where limit is.
@@TheCameltotem While I agree Gamermuscle isn't a fast driver, everyone has a opinion. There are people on gamepads etc saying how good X game is. Lets be honest here, Nils is the top level of sim racer and he basically said the same things Gamermuscle said in his recent video. You don't need to be the top 0.5% of drivers to form a opinion on any game. Is Gamermuscle on the limit? No far from it, but most who play these games are actually far from the limit. There simply at there own limit. Doesn't mean you cant feel what the car is doing when over driving the car, whether that is far from the cars limit when being pushed properly.
@GamerMuscleVideos
In Germany we have a saying "der Ton macht die Musik". It's not necessarily what you say but how you say it. If you just shit talk you can't expect to have people just listen. It need a neutral analysis and that's why people watching your videos might hate you (but I think you thrive on that honestly) and people watching Nils video here have a civil conversation afterwards.
@@TonysRacing600 I totally agree how you say things is litrally the most important thing , largely due to very few people focusing on actual points made in content and most people focusing on a subtxt narrative / general vibe and theme of content.
So ignore my stupid bald head.
Jimmy , random callsign and others have also received a redicuous amount of abusive comments for being quite mildly critical of really obvous aspects of the game.
Nils is an amazing driver so has the authority to say XYZ and that can't shut down as easily even if he said exactly the same points as others.
I'm really thankfull for these skilled E-sports drivers and real world drivers pointing out these things as it might actually progress things.
Hi Nils.
Bei deiner Expertise wundert es mich, dass du nicht eher zu rF2 oder RR dich hingezogen fühlst.
Ich meine vom Realismusgrad und der Engine her, sind dass doch die besten Sim's oder?
Ich habe nie in einem Rennwagen gesessen.
Mich Interessiert deine erhliche Meinung.
Sry für offtopic..
RR ist uralt. RF2 viel zu instabil. ACC ist das beste Gesamtpaket imo
@@SimracingPopometer Bei mir läuft rF2 einwandfrei. Zumindest mit den offiziellen Autos (GT3-Pack) auf den offiziellen Strecken. Finde FFB und Physik der von ACC überlegen - teils auch die Grafik, da rF2 von der Beleuchtung her realistischer ist und nicht so "verwaschen"/comicartig wie ACC
@@SimracingPopometer Weil etwas Alt ist, ist es schlecht?
rF2 instabil? Ich habe über 1400h auf dem Tacho. Et läuft!
Bei ACC habe ich nicht ansatzweise die verbindung Reifen/Asphalt wie in den beiden oben genannten.
Naja👍
Raceroom: graphische immersion gehört genauso zu einer Sim wie Audio und Physik. RR ist da einfach nicht auf der Höhe der Zeit. mich hat es auch dann, wenn ich es Mal gefahren bin, einfach nicht abgeholt. meistens musste man die Reifen viel zu sehr überfahren um schnell zu sein. Ist sicher schon 1-2 Jahre her. Aber ich sehe auch keinen Grund Zeit dafür aufzuwenden, da es in der Szene insgesamt in der Bedeutungslosigkeit verschwunden ist.
RF2: ja, macht meistens Spaß, wenn man es Mal fährt. Aber auch hier: ich habe die Szene mehrere Jahre verfolgt, als ich noch RBR esports betreut habe. Die Probleme haben immer über die competition dominiert. Die Menge an bizarren Bugs war schwer auszuhalten und war dann auch nicht mehr vermittelbar bei RBR, so dass man das Spiel am Ende aufgegeben hat, insbesondere weil die Aufmerksamkeit des Publikums eben auch noch fehlte. Bei den GT3s hatte ich immer den Eindruck, dass man das Heck permanent überfahren muss, ähnlich wie jetzt in ams2 und ich sehe das einfach in den echten onboards nicht. Ja, die Autos verlieren Mal kurz den grip, aber das geht meistens alles viel schneller zwischen grip und kein grip hin und her, dass es mir in RF2 erneut zu schmierig erscheint, wenn auch besser als in ams2.
die Formel Autos fand ich dagegen immer gut. nichtsdestotrotz: es wird zu wenig gespielt am Ende des Tages
@@SimracingPopometer Stimme dir in quasi allen Punkten zu.
ABER ich glaube Le Mans Ultimate auf Basis der rF2-Engine könnte ein richtiger Kracher werden!
They seem to try and give you the feeling of being on the limit, and that youre a good driver. Some will enjoy this high, very unrealistic imo. I was hyped for v1.5, however its still a sim I do not play.
No, i dont think theres any deliberation in trying to achieve a certain behavior. its just the result of their best attempt, given all the knowledge and data that they have in the physics environment they implemented that in. the differences between all games are marginal, yet these margins are very perceptible in the way the cars drive
It is worrying when Forza Motorsport cars are often much harder and complex to drive than AMS2 ones. THe game feels like a casual simcade dressed with sim racer clothes.
Not nit picking, but Raceroom has more GT3, but Raceroom is Raceroom. !
Gt3 is a virus! People don't know what's good for them haha. So many other amazing classes that provide more engaging racing.
raceroom has a very good "connection to the road" feeling, it's ffb is very realistic, some ppl find it a bit numb though as most games have a lot of extra things put in the ffb that you'd never feel irl
@@WhippyWhipGaming raceroom is lacking in its own way. Ffb is all vertical forces and nothing else. And the tracks aren't scanned or have any 3d features outside of curbs.
@@Theoloopthe Virus of the Motorsport. So boring
Assetto has a lot of content (not talking about mods) and there is no significant difference between the physics of different cars, so saying having a lot of content can not be an excuse for why some cars feel good and some don't. Love driving f1 cars, was really thinking of clearing 100 gb of space for this game again, but after seeing this sliding still happening in a freaking f1 car it is really disheartening. I have 12 hours of this game, wish I could refund it, but most of all, I wish it was good so I can play it